Hampton Roads, VA

[Style™]

let's get this massive metro a thread in here! :)

[Style™]

TOM HOLDEN, The Virginian-Pilot
© October 13, 2004
Last updated: 12:02 PM

The Virginia Department of Transportation on Tuesday released key financial data on two competing proposals from consortiums that want to build the “third crossing” over Hampton Roads.

VDOT stressed that the plans are based on assumptions about traffic growth and construction costs that may be greatly altered during the more than a decade it would take to complete the project.


A plan by Skanska/Washington/BAM calls for one-way tolls on the initial project segment starting at $2 in 2008 and increasing to $5.75 upon completion of a second segment in 2013. The segments are considered the project’s backbone.

The first would extend Interstate 564 from Terminal Boulevard in Norfolk past Hampton Boulevard to a new interchange with I-664 at the south island of the Monitor-Merrimac Memorial Bridge-Tunnel. That segment would offer motorists on I-64 an escape route during rush hours. The segment also involves connections to a proposed fourth state-owned cargo port at Craney Island and access to Norfolk International Terminals and the Norfolk Naval Station.

The second segment – the one that would increase the capacity for carrying vehicles between the Peninsula and South Hampton Roads – involves the construction of parallel tubes for the Monitor-Merrimac. Upon completion of that work, the toll would rise to $5.75 .

The third crossing also calls for a wider I-664 in Hampton, Suffolk and Chesapeake and a new four-lane road connecting the Martin Luther King Freeway in Portsmouth to I-564 north of Craney Island.

Building the entire network, according to the Skanska/Washington/BAM plan, would increase tolls to as much $8.50, but the consortium doesn’t specify what trip that toll would cover. The proposal predicts the project will cost $3.2 billion, with about $890 million of that coming from the state and federal governments.

“I’ve read both proposals,” said Mal Kerley , VDOT’s chief engineer. “As far as what they plan to do, they’re pretty much the same. … Both talk about tolling all the crossings down there.”

Both consortiums believe the crossing can be completed by about 2013, and both say they will need more time to develop detailed financial plans.


VDOT’s construction budget is shrinking and it does not have enough money to help build the project. The project being proposed would be built under the state’s public-private partnership law, which allows private companies greater room to finance, design, build and operate public roads.

A proposal from a group led by Fluor Virginia offers three approaches to financing the third crossing but does not offer specifics on what tolls might be. The first calls for paying for the work entirely with tolls, while the other two offer various levels of public investment and different toll rates.

Fluor’s option for financing the project entirely with tolls also includes imposing tolls on the Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel and the Monitor-Merrimac complex.

That proposal could pose the most problems for lawmakers whose support could be needed, because no improvements are planned at the Hampton Roads facility. But it would solve another problem that highway planners have warned about: As long as there are “free” options for crossing Hampton Roads, it will be difficult to attract motorists to new toll facilities.

Fluor’s other two options would put tolls on just one of the existing bridge-tunnels.

Fluor estimated the public investment needed, were it to build the project, would range from $413 million to $630 million. It also predicted the project would cost $3.2 billion.

Both consortiums promised to deliver the project about $1.3 billion cheaper and five years sooner than previously estimated officially.

The proposals will be reviewed by VDOT, and one or both will be presented to the Commonwealth Transportation Board next year for further review.

:cheers:

[Style™]

http://media.hamptonroads.com/images/news/beachtheaternew.jpg

By MARISA TAYLOR, Pilot Online
© October 13, 2004 | Last updated 6:50 PM Oct. 13

VIRGINIA BEACH - The City Council voted Tuesday to approve building a $46.7 million performing arts theater at Town Center, sweeping aside doubts about rising construction costs.

Supporters said the 9-2 vote fulfilled a promise made to community groups that the city would re place the Pavilion theater, which is being torn down in May. Clancy & Theys Construction Co. is scheduled to complete the 1,200-seat theater at Town Center by August 2007.

“Sure, I have concerns about the money,” said Councilman James L. Wood, before voting yes. “But I think these are details that can be worked out.”

The vote, which was greeted by applause in the packed council chambers, confirmed the city’s support for a project that several weeks ago appeared endangered by concerns about the theater’s cost, size and location.

Five of the 11 council members had said they were unsure whether they could support the project, which had increased in cost by $4.4 million. The city has set aside $35 million for the theater and must come up with another $11.7 million . Some council members wondered whether that additional money could be recouped through fund-raising efforts, ticket fees and the sale of naming rights.

Some also worried that the theater’s smaller size would mean the city would have to subsidize its operations as well as its construction.

But by the end of the debate, only Councilwoman Reba S. McClanan and Councilman Bob Dyer voted against the project. Dyer, who was elected in May, said he was fulfilling an election promise to spend the city’s money wisely.

“I do not in any way malign your efforts – I am not anti-arts,” Dyer told an audience made up mostly of theater supporters. “Please understand that I am making good on a promise I made.”

McClanan did not explain her vote but previously expressed concerns about the risk of relying on private fund raising to repay the city.

Other council members said they felt they had no alternative but to approve the theater after witnessing the outpouring of support from community theater groups.

The city considered renovating the Pavilion theater, but rejected that idea because of the cost. Recently, several council members explored using Regent University’s theater, but concluded the venue was too small.

Two years ago, the city projected the theater would cost $50 million to build. In February, a new estimate came in for millions lower. While the city was negotiating a final contract with the builder, construction costs began rising.

Councilman Richard A. Maddox, one of the project’s most vocal skeptics, said he decided to vote for the theater even though he thinks it is too small.

“We got hundreds of e-mails in support of this thing,” Maddox said. “Except for e-mail from one or two people, we never heard from anyone who was against it. It was a very coordinated lobbying campaign and a very effective one, quite frankly.”

Tuesday night, Dot Wood, the head of the city’s theater advisory committee, vowed the money temporarily fronted by the city would be paid back by the private sector.

The city also announced the state has approved the fund raising structure needed to begin accepting donations. City officials are planning to add a $3 fee per ticket to raise $5.4 million for the project.

City officials also have asked developers Art and Steve Sandler to donate $8 million to the city in exchange for naming the theater after their family. The family has expressed interest, but hasn’t announced a decision.

The city may be pursuing another type of theater in the near future. Maddox said Tuesday that he hopes the city will now pursue building a 2,500- to 3,000-seat entertainment complex in the resort area, which would be supported by the creation of a tax increment financing district.

Such districts, which are known as “TIFs,” funnel any growth in property tax revenue back into public projects in that area. The Town Center garages are being funded with revenue from such a district.

[Liger Zero]

Check out this thread for more info:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=120291

[Liger Zero]

Check out this thread for more info on projects in the Hampton Roads Area:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=120291

[Style™]

or - you could just post the information here. :)

[Liger Zero]

or - you could just post the information here. :)

I could, but I didnt want to be redundant by having the same info in more than one place on the same site. But if thats the request, then so be it. Starting now, I'll post info here as well as in the Southeast/Projects and Contruction subforum. For info before now, I advise to check out the link I posted above unless someone (other than me) :runaway: wants to post 4 pages of info here in this subforum.

[Style™]

well, please do post here. this is a better forum anyway. ;)

:D

[Style™]

Mayor Paul Fraim announced today that the City of Norfolk has become a $1 billion neighborhood.

During the past four and a half years, Mayor Fraim said almost 3,000 new residential units have either been built, are under construction or been approved for construction, topping the $1 billion dollar mark for residential development. This does not reflect the significant investment in hospitality, tourism, retail, business and commercial developments.

This kind of unprecedented growth, Fraim said, was beyond the city’s wildest dreams just 20 years ago. In addition, he said $25 million has been invested in more than 1,000 residential additions, repairs and expansions.

Fraim said virtually every neighborhood in the city is being touched by the unprecedented growth in residential construction.

“From the banks of the historic Elizabeth River in downtown Norfolk to the sands of the Chesapeake Bay in Ocean View, investors and developers are transforming this old seaport town into a vibrant and exciting community.”

Fraim said the construction of the new residential units reflect a genuine faith in the future economic prosperity of the city by prominent developers and investors from across Hampton Roads and the United States.

Mayor Fraim made the announcement during a ceremony to launch the construction of St. Paul’s Place on Freemason Street. The plan calls for the construction of 90 condominiums on one of Norfolk’s most historic thoroughfares. The prices of the condominiums will start at $185,000.

The developers of the project, Jack Pope and Jeff Wermers, said the project has been carefully designed to compliment the historic integrity of Freemason Street. Two of the city’s most historic homes, the Willoughby Baylor House and the Moses Myers House, are located at opposite ends of the street.

Mayor Fraim predicted that residential construction will continue in the city at a rapid pace.

“The city’s reputation as one of the finest communities in the country is spreading as more and more people discover the advantages of living in a dynamic urban community.”

[Style™]

http://media.hamptonroads.com/images/business/marriottbig.gif

By MARISA TAYLOR, The Virginian-Pilot
© November 11, 2004

VIRGINIA BEACH — The next luxury hotel at the Oceanfront could give the public more beach access and open space but limit the number of parking spaces at the Ninth Street garage.

Developers of the 15-story Marriott plan to swap land with the city, which would give the public more than 50 feet of open space on either side of the hotel on Atlantic Avenue between 9th and 10th Streets.

The curvy, glass hotel would be built where the Dunes Oceanfront now stands, in a joint venture with the present hotel owners.

Tidewater Hotels & Resorts, the company behind the proposal, has asked to lease 300 of the 610 spaces at the city garage for hotel guests.

Tim Stiffler, Tidewater Hotel’s president, said the deal would give his company enough space to build a hotel with all Oceanfront rooms because the property wouldn’t be taken up by a parking garage.

If the City Council approves the project next month, the city could then use the open spaces on either side of the hotel to develop small parks. In exchange, the city would close the section of 10th Street next to hotel.

“It breaks up the concrete wall� of hotels, said Jim Ricketts, director of the city Convention & Visitors Bureau. “We not only get open space, but we get a first-class hotel.�

The city plans to make up for the lost parking spaces at the Ninth Street garage by providing more spaces at city property seven blocks away at Rudee Loop.

Most of the year, the public uses fewer than the 310 spaces that would remain in the Ninth Street garage under the proposal, Ricketts said. During the summer, however, extra spaces would be needed.

The 250-room hotel, which also will include 28 condominiums, is the latest luxury hotel that requires some sort of public inducement.

The Marriott deal, however, would involve much less municipal involvement than the city’s ongoing large-scale public-private ventures.

Last week, developers unveiled a proposed 30- to 32-story hotel and condominium at Town Center.

The city’s contribution of nearly $30 million would be funded through tax-increment financing, which takes future increases in real estate tax revenues within the area to pay off loans within 20 years.

Also, the Hilton Hotel at 31st Street involved $31.5 million in public money, mostly for a parking garage. The 295-room hotel is scheduled to open by New Year’s Eve at 31st Street and Atlantic Avenue.

The Marriott could be a formidable competitor to the Hilton.

Glenn E. Tuckman, president of Professional Hospitality Resources, which is developing the Hilton, complained about the Marriott proposal in a Sept. 3 letter to the city manager, saying it involved too many public inducements.

His company’s concerns include the parking arrangement, the height of the building and a proposed encroachment by the Marriott’s pool onto the green space next to the beach.

Tuckman said the city refused to grant his company a similar encroachment, which means the 31st Street hotel will have fewer oceanfront rooms. City officials, however, said PHR had always planned to put its pool on the roof. Tuckman said his company’s complaint was not prompted by fear of potential competition.

“We support the continuing upgrade of the Oceanfront and share the city’s vision,� he said. “We just think the same set of rules should apply to everyone.�

Tourism officials say there is more than enough room in the market for another luxury hotel at the Oceanfront. According to city estimates, Virginia Beach needs at least 800 new hotel rooms to support the $202 million convention center, which is scheduled to open in 2007.

Earlier this year, Virginia Beach officials delayed the city’s plans to attract a new hotel at Rudee Loop partly at the request of PHR, which was concerned that another public-private venture would compete with its 31st Street hotel.

So far, the city has spent $11.5 million to buy 3.6 acres at Rudee Loop. Council members said the city should wait five to 10 years before developing the site.

The city has tried to persuade Marriott to come to Virginia Beach since the mid 1970s. But the chain didn’t see the city’s hotel market as lucrative until now. For decades, Hampton Roads ranked among the slowest growing markets in hotel rates and occupancy.

Instead, the chain opened Norfolk’s Marriott Waterside hotel and the Renaissance Portsmouth Hotel and Waterfront Conference Center.

:cheers:

[Style™]

Special thanks to stealingpears over at Richmondcitywatch.com for taking these photos.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/caeexam/norfolk/DSC00276.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/caeexam/norfolk/DSC00278.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/caeexam/norfolk/DSC00285.jpg

This where Trader Publishing is going to build a 20 story tower to replace the BB&T lot. Hilton is also planning to build a 25 story hotel right near that.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/caeexam/norfolk/DSC00287.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/caeexam/norfolk/DSC00288.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/caeexam/norfolk/DSC00286.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/caeexam/norfolk/DSC00284.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/caeexam/norfolk/DSC00283.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/caeexam/norfolk/DSC00282.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/caeexam/norfolk/DSC00281.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/caeexam/norfolk/DSC00280.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/caeexam/norfolk/DSC00277.jpg


These are just some web finds that I threw in.
http://www.norfolkdevelopment.com/images/demographics/demo_facts_pictures/skyline_lg.jpg

http://www.norfolkdevelopment.com/images/demographics/demo_facts_pictures/ship_lg.jpg

http://www.norfolkdevelopment.com/images/demographics/demo_facts_pictures/main_street_lg.jpg

http://www.norfolkdevelopment.com/images/revitalization/downtown_2010/waterside_park_lg.jpg

http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/pan/6a15000/6a15800/6a15812r.jpg

http://www.landmarkdg.com/pix/kp_hp_big.jpg

http://www.landmarkdg.com/pix/kp_hp2_big.jpg

http://www.digitalballparks.com/Norfolk_-_Outside2587T.jpg

http://www.digitalballparks.com/Norfolk_-_From_Picnic_Tables2600T.jpg

http://www.digitalballparks.com/Norfolk_-_From_Upper_Left550T.jpg

http://www.digitalballparks.com/Norfolk_-_From_Picnic_Tablescrop784T.jpg

Newport News's downtown has been taken over by Northrop Grumman (Shipyard), so it's pretty gritty. There is a lot of crime around the downtown area, which keeps businesses and people away.
http://www.nn.northropgrumman.com/photogallery/Facilities/C03-367-5.jpg

http://www.nn.northropgrumman.com/photogallery/Facilities/DCS01-67.JPG

http://www.nn.northropgrumman.com/photogallery/Facilities/C01-133-16.jpg

http://www.nn.northropgrumman.com/photogallery/Facilities/C01-133-9.jpg

http://www.nn.northropgrumman.com/photogallery/Facilities/C01-172-24.jpg

http://www.nn.northropgrumman.com/photogallery/Facilities/C03-367-10.jpg

http://www.nn.northropgrumman.com/photogallery/Facilities/C97-435-14.JPG


The city has been focusing a lot of their attention on these two projects for some time. When finished Oyster Point business center will/is replacing N.N's downtown

Oyster Point (City Center)
http://www.oysterpointonline.com/pics/siteplan.jpg

http://www.oysterpointonline.com/pics/rexecutive.jpg

http://ramsites.net/~ceciremh/CityCenter1.jpg

http://ramsites.net/~ceciremh/CityCenter2.jpg

http://ramsites.net/~ceciremh/CityCenter5.jpg

Port Warwick
http://www.portwarwick.com/images/drawings/Port_Warwick_Aerial_2_big.jpg


:)

[lammius]

Talks might resume to bring Expos to Norfolk

Robert DuPuy


By HARRY MINIUM , The Virginian-Pilot
© December 21, 2004

NORFOLK — Major League Baseball will reopen negotiations with the city about relocating the erstwhile Montreal Expos to Harbor Park this coming season if officials are unable to conclude a stadium-finance deal with Washington, Robert DuPuy, baseball’s president and chief operating officer, said Monday.

“We would contact all of the former interested communities, including Norfolk, both with regard to next year and beyond,” if talks break down with Washington, DuPuy said in an e-mail to The Virginian-Pilot.

DuPuy’s comments came amid other media reports that put Norfolk back into the picture for the Expos, who moved to Washington two months ago and have been rechristened the Washington Nationals.

The Washington Post reported Monday that baseball sources indicate that Norfolk “is considered a primary alternate home” for the Expos if the deal in Washington falls through.

ESPN baseball analyst Peter Gammons reported much the same on ESPN.com.



P O L L


Should Norfolk entertain a second round of talks with the Expos?


Yes
No
Undecided



View results



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



If the deal with Washington falls through, commissioner Bud Selig “is not going to play at RFK Stadium, and the word around baseball is that the Nationals will play the next two years in Norfolk, Va.,” Gammons wrote.

Baseball officials negotiated a stadium-finance plan that called for Washington to pay for most of a $531 million facility, but that deal is on the brink of collapse. The District of Columbia Council rejected the plan last week in favor of one that calls for private financing of more than half the stadium.

The council’s final meeting of the year is scheduled tonight. A deal must be in place by Dec. 31 or baseball in Washington is dead, Mayor Anthony A. Williams said.

The Washington Post reported that Norfolk would be the favorite if a deal falls through in Washington primarily because of its location in the eastern time zone. Other potential candidates include Las Vegas and Portland, Ore., located too far away to play in the National League’s East Division.

“The league schedule is done, and the Nationals are playing an East schedule,” said William Somerindyke Jr., president and chief executive officer of the Norfolk Baseball Co., the group that tried to buy the Expos and move them to Norfolk.

“That means they’re not going to send a team to the West.”

Northern Virginia and Monterrey, Mexico, are other sites that were considered. Officials in Hampton Roads reacted cautiously to the reports.

“I’m not going to speculate, because I have no idea what terms might be discussed,” Mayor Paul D. Fraim said.

He called the chances of the Nationals relocating to Norfolk “really a long, long shot.”

Added Somerindyke: “I don’t know how seriously to take this until Dec. 31,” he said of the end of baseball’s agreement to negotiate exclusively with Washington. “I can’t imagine that Washington’s not going to get the deal done.

“But if they don’t, then obviously we’ll try and take advantage of any opportunity we get.”

Left in limbo by the potential turn of events is the Norfolk Tides Triple-A team. Ken Young, the Tides president, said he has not been contacted by Major League Baseball and was surprised by The Washington Post and ESPN.com reports.

“I do think that the Washington City Council will come around and things will get worked out,” he said.

He said it’s too late for the Tides to relocate, and that the Nationals would have to play 81 home games at Harbor Park, while the Tides will play 72.

“That’s basically 153 home games in a six-month period,” he said. “It would be difficult.”

He also lamented the possibility that even a speculative story about the Nationals coming to Norfolk might hurt Tides’ ticket and corporate sponsorship sales.

DuPuy said Major League Baseball would discuss relocating the Nationals both on a temporary and permanent basis with other communities in January if talks break down with Washington.

Somerindyke said if baseball proposes anything but a permanent relocation, it would be unfair to the Tides.

“If they bring a team here for two years, then try and move it out or fold the team, it’s not fair,” he said. “Then you’ve completely ruined the market for the Tides.”

Norfolk City Councilman W. Randy Wright said he “wouldn’t rule out” discussions on any subject with Major League Baseball, but said relocating a team in Norfolk temporarily “wouldn’t make a lot of sense.”

If negotiations begin anew with Norfolk in January, it’s unlikely a deal could be reached quickly. Major parts of state legislation that call for state and local taxes generated at a stadium to be dedicated to stadium debt expires on Dec. 31.

Fraim said “we’ll cross that bridge if we have to” when asked if the city would ask the General Assembly to extend the legislation.

“I have no idea what they’re going to do,” Fraim said of baseball officials.

“All I know is that we’ve had no contact with them. We didn’t have much contact with them before, either. They keep things very close to the vest.”

Reach Harry Minium at 446-2371 or harry.minium@pilotonline.com.




More Major League Baseball Articles
• D.C. mayor says baseball deal is ''close to dying'' - Dec. 16

[lammius]

Ooops. I should've previewed. Didn't mean to leave that Poll in there!

[ralex231]

WHere is this?

[vdogg]

Way to go guys. You can never have too many hampton roads forums. SSP seems to have HR pretty well represented so its time to start concentrating some effort back here now.

[astro]

Cool! A Hampton Roads thread is back. Good to see.

[lammius]

Too bad the Expos story was dead only hours after it was released. Washington seems to have nabbed 'em for sure this time

[fwskyline]

If I may make a request, could we see some Norfolk neighborhoods? I'm particularly curious as to what Ghent and the area around Lafayette Park look like. Maybe the actual beach portion of VA Beach, too. :)

[oduguy1999]

Norfolk
http://http://www.norfolk.va.us/Planning/comehome/images/Ghent_1.jpg http://www.norfolk.va.us/Planning/comehome/images/ghent_street3.jpg http://www.norfolk.va.us/Planning/comehome/images/ghent_8.jpg
http://www.norfolk.va.us/Planning/comehome/images/ghent_4.JPG http://www.norfolk.va.us/Planning/comehome/images/ghent_2.JPG http://www.norfolk.va.us/Planning/comehome/images/ghent_7.jpg
http://www.norfolk.va.us/Planning/comehome/images/hague_bulkhead.jpg
http://www.norfolk.va.us/Planning/comehome/images/ghent_5.JPG http://www.norfolk.va.us/Planning/comehome/images/ghent_street3tall.jpg
http://www.rkpuma.com/ov/gggHagueAerial.jpg
http://www.tommyalphin.com/images/larchmont2x250.jpg
http://image02.webshots.com/2/8/17/21/44881721WaUhNj_ph.jpg
http://www.norfolk.gov/Planning/comehome/images/ghent_street.JPG
http://www.norfolk.gov/Planning/comehome/images/freemasonbar.jpg
http://www.norfolk.gov/Planning/comehome/images/Eastfreemason_strip.jpg
http://www.norfolkhistorical.org/fotos/kenmure_big.jpg
http://www.norfolkhistorical.org/fotos/selden_house_big.jpg
http://www.norfolk.gov/Planning/comehome/images/Neighb2.jpg
http://www.norfolk.va.us/Planning/comehome/images/parkplace.jpg

VA Beach


http://www.sandbridge.com/propimages/rentals/ethanoncanal.jpg
http://www.sandbridge.com/propimages/rentals/freesunset.jpg
http://www.sandbridge.com/propimages/rentals/coastal4out.jpg
http://www.sandbridge.com/propimages/rentals/seasiderouta.jpg
http://www.sandbridge.com/propimages/rentals/coastal3c.jpg

[VaCeltic]

cool pics oduguy

[fwskyline]

Wow! Norfolk has some excellent neighborhoods! I like this pic in particular:

http://www.norfolk.va.us/Planning/comehome/images/hague_bulkhead.jpg

[hokiehigh]

Thanks for the pics. I love seeing Hampton Roads. Looks like the area is really beginning to grow!

[vdogg]

]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/guynvb/towncentera.jpg

By MARISA TAYLOR, The Virginian-Pilot
© January 5, 2005

VIRGINIA BEACH — The City Council on Tuesday approved plans for a 30-story hotel-and-condominum tower in Town Center.

By a 7-1 vote, the City Council agreed to build the project’s fourth public parking garage, a conference room and possibly two pedestrian bridges in Town Center’s latest phase.

Armada Hoffler, Town Center’s developer and the city’s partner in the project, is still finalizing details of a proposed 215-room Westin hotel that will be topped by 104 condos. The company also plans to build more offices and shops.

The tower will be the tallest in Hampton Roads.

It will be built on Columbus Street and Independence Boulevard, across from Dick’s Sporting Goods.

According to preliminary estimates, the city could end up spending about $30 million on the project. That includes $19.5 million on the garage, $6.5 million on the 17,000-square-foot conference room, $2.5 million on the two proposed pedestrian bridges and $1.5 million on streets.

Armada Hoffler plans to invest $130 million.

Louis S. Haddad, president of Armada Hoffler, said the city’s contribution is important in securing deals with national chains and will help lure major retailers to the project.

As the project design is finalized, the city’s contribution might change. Tuesday’s vote gave developers the go-ahead to refine the design, and Haddad said the hotel might end up being bigger.

Three council members were absent from Tuesday’s vote.

In early spring, the council is expected to vote again on a final agreement with Armada Hoffler.

The hotel would open in spring 2007.

Councilman James L. Wood said Virginia Beach’s continued contribution to Town Center showed the city’s support of the project’s direction.

“This is a vindication of Town Center’s success,” he said.

But Councilwoman Reba S. McClanan, who cast the only “no” vote, said she felt that the council didn’t have enough details about the financial workings of the deal to support it.

“I want to be persuaded,” McClanan said. “I want them to handle this like a PR project for the citizens: This is how we’re investing the money, and this is how the city will benefit.”

Most of the public money for the project is paid for with property taxes generated by a Tax Increment Financing District, a 238-acre area around the site.

Property taxes that were being paid within the district in 1998 continue to go to city services and schools. But the “increment” in property taxes spurred by the development of Town Center is being invested back into the project, mostly to build the garages.

The Town Center’s first phase includes a 23-story main tower, a hotel and shops and restaurants. The second phase, which is still being built, includes an apartment building, a public plaza, and more shops and restaurants.

Since the TIF’s inception, the area has generated about $3.4 million in property taxes that can be spent on the project. Last year, the city made its loan payments on the public improvements and still had $1.3 million left over.

Money for other public improvements, such as the streets, comes from an economic investment fund that takes money from higher taxes on cigarettes and from the city’s capital budget.

Councilman Bob Dyer said he initially had doubts about the level of the city’s participation because the project seemed to be doing well on its own.

He eventually decided to vote in favor of the latest phase because he was told the deal wouldn’t have happened without the city’s help.

“I have some reservations about the city being in the business of building garages for select projects,” Dyer said. “But I don’t want to kill a good project.”

Reach Marisa Taylor at 222-5108 or marisa.taylor@pilot online.com

[lammius]

fw, I believe that picture is from the Ghent neighborhood. Beyonddc.com has some of another older neighborhood, Freemason. SCROLL TO THE BOTTOM (http://www.beyonddc.com/features/norfolk.html)

An easy Water Taxi ride away is Olde Towne Portsmouth (http://www.portsmouth.va.us/portspix/5/page5.htm) .

[CTroyMathis]

I really enjoyed the hell out of strolling around through olde towne in Portsmouth. Ghent and surrounds was great stuff also.

[spencer114]

Norfolk kicks ass! It wipes the floor with crappy places like Charlotte and Lousiville.

Beyond DC has posted some great street level pics of Norfolk.
Everyone on here should visit the site via lammius' link "scroll to the bottom" in the message prior to this.

[lammius]

I went to Portsmouth to visit grandparents last week and we went to eat in Olde Towne. There are quite a few interesting trendy/hip restaurants and shops down there that didn't exist when I lived there 6 years ago.

[willy]

Norfolk kicks ass! It wipes the floor with crappy places like Charlotte and Lousiville. WOW, that's a stong statement, but I like it. You would probably have a fight on your hands if anybody from those cities cared enough to look in this thread.

[vdogg]

]http://media.hamptonroads.com/images/business/mainbuildingbig.jpg
The property at 109 E. Main Street, built in the late 1800s, was the first multi-level office structure in downtown Norfolk, according to Harbor Group.


By BATTINTO BATTS, The Virginian-Pilot
January 6, 2005

NORFOLK If you had breakfast or lunch recently with Peter Decker Jr., two things were likely to happen.

You would eat at his sons restaurant, Egg Diner. And on the way there or back, Decker would take you inside the bank building at 109 E. Main St. to admire its architecture.

I ve always been a fan of Italian Renaissance, and this is a classic Italian Renaissance building, he said.

Decker will soon be able to gush at the structures beauty while working at his law practice. He and his wife, Bess, have a contract for the right to buy the century-old building from Harbor Group International. The deal is expected to close at the end of this month.

The $5.7 million deal will be the latest in a string of transactions that clear the way for a new hotel and conference center downtown. That development, in the works for months, is expected to be announced soon.

Harbor Group agreed to buy the building from BB&T last year when the bank signed a lease to become the anchor tenant at 500 E. Main. The firm has since sought to pass that potential ownership on to another buyer. The building does not fit into Harbor Groups portfolio of holdings, officials said.

It is an excellent building, but it is not something we typically would focus on, said Jordan Sloan, chairman and CEO of Harbor Group.

The company owns several large office buildings throughout the country, including 500 E. Main and Dominion Tower in Norfolk.

While Harbor Group was looking for a buyer for the BB&T building at 109 E. Main, Decker was searching for a new headquarters for his law practice, Decker, Cardon, Thomas, Weintraub and Neskis, PC.

The city of Norfolk paid $2.6 million for the building that houses Deckers firm at 201 E. Plume St. last summer . The acquisition makes way for the construction of a luxury Hilton Hotel, a conference center and an 800-space parking garage. Billionaire Robert Johnson, owner of the Charlotte Bobcats NBA franchise, will develop the hotel.
Deckers law practice will occupy the second and third floors of 109 E. Main. At least one more tenant, likely a financial institution, is expected to occupy the building.

The property, built in the late 1800s, was the first multi-level office structure in downtown Norfolk, according to Harbor Group.

Bess and I are very excited to own a truly great part of our citys history,Decker said. It is a building that I have admired.

^^^Finally a formal annoucement about the Hilton is coming. I can't wait to see the renderings.

[Liger Zero]

Norfolk kicks ass! It wipes the floor with crappy places like Charlotte and Lousiville.

:rofl:

That easily tops the list as the funniest thing I've heard all day and my workplace is full of laughs.

[rockj410]

Norfolk kicks ass! It wipes the floor with crappy places like Charlotte and Lousiville.

^^I live here and I even think thats bogus......

[rockj410]

oh yeah thanks for sticking some newport news pics in there!!!

[Jayayess1190]

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=7366

[spencer114]

hmm stronger economy, better geography, better architecture, really interesting historic and cultural sites, beautiful homes (old and new), the ocean, the bay, dozens of rivers, salt marshes, swamps, lakes, second lowest unemployment in the nation and still I'm supposed to believe that Charlotte is somehow better. Perhaps you Tidewater guys can fill me in on why I should believe that. BTW if you haven't been to Charlotte or Louisville, don't bother responding.

[vdogg]

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=7366
Actually, i have since closed this thread and consolidated all project info here.
http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=11642

[hotspottny]

hmm stronger economy, better geography, better architecture, really interesting historic and cultural sites, beautiful homes (old and new), the ocean, the bay, dozens of rivers, salt marshes, swamps, lakes, second lowest unemployment in the nation and still I'm supposed to believe that Charlotte is somehow better. Perhaps you Tidewater guys can fill me in on why I should believe that. BTW if you haven't been to Charlotte or Louisville, don't bother responding.
Norfolk,VA better than Charlotte,NC....that's a joke right.I lived in Norfolk for a few months last year with family and I just came back from visiting the area a month ago and to say stronger economy,better geography and better architecture in Norfolk is crazy.Norfolk is years behind Charlotte in many ways and yes Norfolk has alot of projects and downtown revitilization going on but so does Charlotte and on a greater scale.I'm not here to bash any city but that was just funny to even hear that come out of anyone's mouth who has visited and lived in both cities.

[James704]

^ Charlotte's greatest weakest is it's geography: far from the coast, moderately inspiring surroundings, far from the Northeast. Norfolk-Va Beach will always have an advantage over Charlotte in this dept. B/c of this, I'd choose Norfolk-Va Beach over Charlotte anyday (and, yes, I'm very familiar with both). I think the US Dept of Defense really hurt Norfolk-Va Beach's potential/growth when it handpicked it to be a military town, but the metro is diversifying and it does have great potential. All the right ingredients are there, particularly a top-tier research university, College of William and Mary (www.wm.edu) (#31 US News). I think a lot of people forget this institution exists, I know I often do. Charlotte does not offer such an institution, which is it's second greatest weakness, and will not within this century -- and the next to come. Only in UNCC's wet dreams could it gain such prestige in such speed, even in this day in age.

http://www.easylivinghomes.com/images/wm&mary.jpg (www.wm.edu)

[hotspottny]

First of all , everyone doesn't like water and swamps, so thats irrelevant.Who says being far from the northeast is a bad thing,which VA is only step closer to the north than NC.Yes Norfolk and VABeach is diversifying,growing and full of potential but so is Charlotte and I say again at a much faster and prosperous pace.Don't forget about Queens college , it is a very prestigous school and full of potential just like UNCC. Remember CLT also has Johnson/Wales which is a very well known school that is a big time failure in the VA area.Norfolk doesn't have alot of high paying jobs,downtown nightlife,major sports,upscale shopping and MacArthur Center isn't there yet,a diverse dining and restaurant options,a bigger,reliable and major airport,light rail being constructed and good public transportation,alot of highrise and downtown living options now and in the next 3 or 4 years,alot of diversity according to the us census which CLT is one of the most diverse city's in the south ,look at the numbers.Once 9 o'clock hits Norfolk shuts down and its even hard to find a restaurant or fast food open late and thats hilarious.According to Expansion Management Magazine 2005, CLT is no.4 and NOR IS NO.20 IN AMERICA'S 50 HOTTEST CITIES.I could go on and on but I don't want to come across as city bashing but it's just facts and although Norfolk is a nice , growing city so is Charlotte which is years ahead of NOR and growing at a much faster rate.

[verycoolnin]

Charlotte has an amazing skyline, something neither Norfolk or Virginia Beach can compete with. But the hampton roads does have a larger metropolitan population.

[hotspottny]

Charlotte has an amazing skyline, something neither Norfolk or Virginia Beach can compete with. But the hampton roads does have a larger metropolitan population.
Thats soemthing you an argue with becaus ethe city council and government always say the metro is 2 mil plus and thats seems more accurate....but charlotte city population triples norfolk's city population so there is always a but in there soimewhere.Again Norfolk is a nice city but to say that it is on the same level as CLT is not accurate.IF NOR "metro" is larger than CLT then it's def. by a few people , and again that has nothing to do with which city offers more diversity,culture,job oppurtunites,shoppin amenitites and things to do.

[willy]

Once 9 o'clock hits Norfolk shuts down and its even hard to find a restaurant or fast food open late and thats hilarious.
I'll be sure to let the roughly 25K people that come downtown to party on the weekends know that it shuts down at 9, LOL! Also, I'll let the 1 million people that visit the mall downtown every month that little known secret.

[vdogg]

I'll be sure to let the roughly 25K people that come downtown to party on the weekends know that it shuts down at 9, LOL! Also, I'll let the 1 million people that visit the mall downtown every month that little known secret.
LOL, I know. Where does this guy get his info. It really makes me wonder if he actually believes all that or is just trolling.

[spencer114]

Actually Norfolk is 100's of years ahead of Charlotte.

Last year US News ranked William and Marry as the 4th best public university in the USA (the top four were, in order, UC Berkley, UVA, UNC Chapel Hill, William and Marry).

The city of Charlotte has more people because it has many more square miles within its borders. Few cities in the south enjoy Norfolk's density and it does offer more downtown living than does Charlotte. The nice stuff that you are referring to in Charlotte is their attempt to build what Norfolk already has, urban neighborhoods with old world charm and modern amenities. I was amazed by the new, multi ethnic restaurants on Gramby Street and in Ghent when I was there last (late April for the Shins concert). The streets were packed with people, and it didn't take a corporate sponsored even to get them there. They actually work, live and entertain themselves downtown. Harbor Fest attracts as many people as Race Street. Millions visit VA Beach yearly. Charlotte has some very nice high-rises. But guess what, so does everybody else and those that don't are building them. Lifestyle centers are identical nationwide. There is nothing unique about Charlotte (except for it’s insatiable appetite for ketchup consumption).

[spencer114]

Actually Norfolk is 100's of years ahead of Charlotte.

Last year US News ranked William and Marry as the 4th best public university in the USA (the top four were, in order, UC Berkley, UVA, UNC Chapel Hill, William and Marry).

The city of Charlotte has more people because it has many more square miles within its borders. Few cities in the south enjoy Norfolk's density and it does offer more downtown living than does Charlotte. The nice stuff that you are referring to in Charlotte is their attempt to build what Norfolk already has, urban neighborhoods with old world charm and modern amenities. I was amazed by the new, multi ethnic restaurants on Gramby Street and in Ghent when I was there last (late April for the Shins concert). The streets were packed with people, and it didn't take a corporate sponsored even to get them there. They actually work, live and entertain themselves downtown. Harbor Fest attracts as many people as Race Street. Millions visit VA Beach yearly. Charlotte has some very nice high-rises. But guess what, so does everybody else and those that don't are building them. Lifestyle centers are identical nationwide. There is nothing unique about Charlotte (except for it’s insatiable appetite for ketchup consumption).

[verycoolnin]

Thats soemthing you an argue with becaus ethe city council and government always say the metro is 2 mil plus and thats seems more accurate....but charlotte city population triples norfolk's city population so there is always a but in there soimewhere.Again Norfolk is a nice city but to say that it is on the same level as CLT is not accurate.IF NOR "metro" is larger than CLT then it's def. by a few people , and again that has nothing to do with which city offers more diversity,culture,job oppurtunites,shoppin amenitites and things to do.
Unfortunetly the latest metropolitan census data available is from 2000. In that the hampton roads ranks 33rd in population and charlotte ranks 37th. http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/phc-t29/tab03a.pdf

But county and city population estimates of 2004 were released just this April. Since the boundaries defined for a metropolitan area are easily available I'll plug these latest numbers in and I'll see what I get. But the hampton roads should still have a larger metropolitan pop.

A more recent metropolitan census is available

[gwiATLeman]

I'm always curious what people mean when they say things like "Norfolk is not on the same level as CLT". Are we talking skyline? Charlotte does have much taller buildings but the cities do feel about the same size to me.

[verycoolnin]

Here it is.

Metropolitan definitions: http://www.census.gov/population/estimates/metro-city/List1.txt
2004 county/city data: http://www.census.gov/popest/counties/CO-EST2004-01.html

Counties and cities that make up the Hampton Roads’s 2004 metro population.

Currituck County: 22,067
Gloucester County: 37,262
Isle of Wight County: 32,774
James City County: 55,502
Mathews County: 9,226
Surry County: 6,970
York County: 60,885
Chesapeake city: 214,725
Hampton city: 145,951
Newport News city: 181,913
Norfolk city: 237,835
Poquoson city: 11,700
Portsmouth city: 99,291
Suffolk city: 76,586
Virginia Beach city: 440,098
Williamsburg city: 11,465

2004 metropolitan population: 1,644,250

2000 metropolitan population: 1,576,370

increase of 4.3% or 67,880



Counties that make up Charlotte’s 2004 metro pop.
Anson County: 25,109
Cabarrus County: 146,135
Gaston County: 194,459
Mecklenburg County: 771,617
Union County: 153,652
York County: 183,762
2004 metropolitan population: 1,474,734

2000 metropolitan population: 1,330,448

increase of 10.8% or 144,286

The hampton roads does maintain it's population lead over Charlotte but it is apparent that Charlotte is a booming city while the hampton roads is growing at an above average rate.

[vdogg]

I'm always curious what people mean when they say things like "Norfolk is not on the same level as CLT". Are we talking skyline? Charlotte does have much taller buildings but the cities do feel about the same size to me.
And what they don't realize is with our current highrise boom across the region we are gonna rapidly start catching up in skyline too. Norfolk is a wonderful city and so is Charlotte. But it seems like some people feel that in order to recognize Charlottes accomplishments they have to belittle those of other cities. People have their preferences, I for one prefer Norfolks historic feel to Charlottes glossiness, but thats just me. Others will have different opinions and i respect that.

[vdogg]

This is just a small fraction of the development going on in our city but it stands out as a good example so i'll post it here.

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=87171&ran=75767&tref=po
Tower plans hit 31 and 37 stories in Norfolk and Va. Beach


GRANBY TOWER, left: At 450 feet, the downtown Norfolk structure would be the region’s second-tallest building.
WESTIN HOTEL, right: At 508 feet, the Town Center building in Virginia Beach would be Hampton Roads’ tallest. HUMPHREYS AND PARTNERS ARCHITECTS LP / BRENNAN BEER GORMAN ARCHITECTS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v714/vdogg/norfolkbeachtowers.jpg

[verycoolnin]

Also to note as of 2000 the hampton roads ranks 27th overal is urban population: http://www.demographia.com/db-ua2000r.htm

[hotspottny]

OK 100 Yeasr of CLT and we are talking about NOR, it amazes me that you really think this and NO im not from CLT but I lived in NOR for a while and i'm now in CLT. And you also said that " on the weekends" the downtown area is booming ..well ok , who isn't booming on the weekends.CLT downtown is also booming on weekdays too...lol.....and it doesn't take a concert or festival to bring the parties downtown in CLT!You really need to visit the CLT downtown and I can assure you that NOR isn't nothing like it.Again i'm not froom CLT ,i'm from NY and this place is alot closer to being more diverse and a city that has nightlife than NOR.As far as NOR having the high rise boom and catching up in the skyline which was posted by VDOGG, CLT has more high rise boom than NOR(alot more tall buildings now and in the future) so I don't know about them catching up.Now saying that NOR has more downtown living than CLT..LOL....that's very funny and where did you get that BS.Look at the number of people living in both downtowns and then smack yourself.You can say what you want and this is my last post because this is very pointless debating on this subject when it's very evident which city is more prosperous and in the booming stages ahead of the other, so to all a goodnight!!!Maybe you can convince yourselves the unfound statements you all are making but not me , been there and done that and it was very depressing and a dead 4 or 5 months I was living in NOR.

[vdogg]

You can say what you want and this is my last post because this is very pointless debating on this subject
It is equally as pointless debating with someone who has such an obvious distaste for our area that they wish to belittle any and every good thing thats happened to our city.

[hotspottny]

It is equally as pointless debating with someone who has such an obvious distaste for our area that they wish to belittle any and every good thing thats happened to our city.
VDOGG, I know I said the last post was my last post but I just wanted to apologize if I came off kind of harsh and distasteful but I don't mean any harn. NOR is a nice city and every city isn't for everyone but my time there wasn't the atmosphere and pace I was looking for. I moved to CLT with alot of my co-workers and the city is vibrant,classy and more appealing to me and I can say that I have met so many northeners here and from the west coast and they feel the same way about the city and it's future. The downtown area is so appealing and vibrant on weekends,weekdays and nights.I'm not trying to belittle yo area again it's a nice place but just not for me.Goodluck in your area's future and i'm sure there will be many good things to happen this year and the near future.

[vdogg]

VDOGG, I know I said the last post was my last post but I just wanted to apologize if I came off kind of harsh and distasteful but I don't mean any harn. NOR is a nice city and every city isn't for everyone but my time there wasn't the atmosphere and pace I was looking for. I moved to CLT with alot of my co-workers and the city is vibrant,classy and more appealing to me and I can say that I have met so many northeners here and from the west coast and they feel the same way about the city and it's future. The downtown area is so appealing and vibrant on weekends,weekdays and nights.I'm not trying to belittle yo area again it's a nice place but just not for me.Goodluck in your area's future and i'm sure there will be many good things to happen this year and the near future.
Ok, i'll accept that one :) . Charlotte is indeed a very nice city, but a lot of people are realizing the potential Norfolk has too. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree but no worries. There is room for both cities on this planet, lol. :)

[willy]

CLT downtown is also booming on weekdays too...lol.....and it doesn't take a concert or festival to bring the parties downtown in CLT!
And neither does Norfolk, the numbers I said are on average with no festival or concert. When an event is thrown into the mix the numbers jump dramatically.

It's truly funny how you say that Norfolk doesn't have "diverse dining and restaurant options". When in downtown Norfolk or Ghent you could have just about have any type of food you want. And they're not a bunch of freakin chain restaurants.

[chillinNATOWN]

I think the Hampton Rds Metro is underated. This is the 4th biggest metro in the SE behind DC, Atlanta and Miami. I have visited this region in the past and I'll say it's a very nice area. You have the beautiful beaches and Virginia Coastline of Virginia Beach, the shipbuilding industry in NewPort News, and Norfolk would be the cultural and economic engine for the region. I love this area.