Rating the B10 or XII college towns

[edsg25]

Hey, midwesterners,

How would you rate either the Big Ten or Big 12 college towns; not as cities, per se, but as how good a job they do at being college towns.

I'd put the Big Ten like this:
1. Ann Arbor (one of the nation's great college towns)
2. Madison (gem of a mix of univ, capital, and setting)
3. Iowa City (definitive middle American small city college town; Mayberry meets Hawkeyes)
4. Bloomington (magnifcient campus in scenic area, down home country flavor with a southern feel no B10 college town has)
5. Evanston (rising in the ranks; no really catering to NU and offering amentiies expected in great college towns)
6. Columbus: for the sheer love of it has for the Buckeyes
7. Minneapolis: great city as opposed to great college town. U of M being downtown detracts from college atmosphere. Most commuter oriented B10 school doesn't help. Lots of area attractions, but that's not necessarily collegiate.
8. Champaign-Urbana: the U of I deserved much, much better. Too far in relationship to Chgo as compared with A2 to Detroit. Flat, boring farm country. Heart of both cities is just too far removed from campus
9. East Lansing: suburban feel; should relate better to spectacular MSU campus than it does. Too large of a univesity for this not to be a better college town
10. State College: ISOLATED!
11. Lafayette/W. Lafayette: you've got to be kidding.

[edsg25]

Ooops..

5. Evanston (rising in the ranks; NOW really catering to NU and offering amentiies expected in great college towns)

[The anti-cheesehead]

7. Minneapolis: great city as opposed to great college town. U of M being downtown detracts from college atmosphere. Most commuter oriented B10 school doesn't help. Lots of area attractions, but that's not necessarily collegiate.

The U of M isn't in downtown Minneapolis, it's across the river, and parts of it are actually in St. Paul. The campus is too big and that's one of the reasons why I didn't go there.

[sfhoya]

Well, the West Bank of the U of M is quite close to downtown Minneapolis.

I actually think the construction of the interstate between downtown and the West Bank/ Cedar Riverside neighborhood in the 60s did more damage to the city of Minneapolis than any other event in its history. Before then, downtown was a single, continuous area from the CBD to the U. Today, downtown is cut off by what is easily one of the ugliest tangles of freeways in the country and U students are physically and psychologically cut off from the city they're in. I hear frequent complaints from U students about how boring Minneapolis is - for them, Minneapolis is Dinkytown (the U's immediate neighborhood) - they don't even realize there's a great city beyond the freeways. I'm hoping that one day the freeways can be decked to reestablish this contiguity. It'd be a good thing for the U and for the life and economy of the city

[The anti-cheesehead]

Well, the West Bank of the U of M is quite close to downtown Minneapolis.


Well, I work in downtown and the U of M is nowhere to be found. :)

[milehi]

Big 12

1) Boulder
2) Austin
3) Lawrence
4) Norman
5) Columbia
6) College Station
7) Manhattan
8) Stillwater
9) Waco
10) Lincoln
11) Ames
12) Missing one off the top of my head?

[ColDayMan]

6. Columbus: for the sheer love of it has for the Buckeyes


You simply can't say all of Columbus is a college town. To be realistic and fair, only the University neighborhood itself is a college town within a larger city. If the University neighborhood were it's own college town, it would equal Ann Arbor/Madison or perhaps surpass them on a number of levels (notably, housing density).

[KCN]

^ Lubbock.

I've been to them all except Boulderand Stillwater. Of those 10, Austin gets the top spot easily, then probably Lincoln. Lawrence and Columbia are cool. Then I'd put Norman, followed by College Station. The others...eh. Then Lubbock gets the bottom spot. Ugh. To make it worse it's a dry city....you gotta go outside the city limits to buy alcohol.

[KM1410]

11. Lafayette/W. Lafayette: you've got to be kidding.

best post ever :D

[airmale007]

8. Champaign-Urbana: the U of I deserved much, much better. Too far in relationship to Chgo as compared with A2 to Detroit. Flat, boring farm country. Heart of both cities is just too far removed from campus


This assumes that the U of I is Chicago's school. Meh. Also, that "flat, boring farm country" produces important products that are in foods you likely consume daily.

[edsg25]

best post ever :D

I'm probably get punched out by Purdue Pete; you probably are due for a bash in the head with an old oaken bucket.

Either way, we should both avoid r.r. crossings!

[City of Lakes]

I hear frequent complaints from U students about how boring Minneapolis is - for them, Minneapolis is Dinkytown (the U's immediate neighborhood) - they don't even realize there's a great city beyond the freeways. I'm hoping that one day the freeways can be decked to reestablish this contiguity. It'd be a good thing for the U and for the life and economy of the city

Don't forget Stadium Village. I do agree with you that it would be nice if the freeway could someday be decked. However, students will end up having better access to both downtowns via light rail, which will run under Washington Ave., onto University Ave., and then into downtown St. Paul.

[denvernative1982]

Come on folks, Columbus easily beats any other city that has a school in the big 10.

I mean seriously have any of you been on North High Street, from Downtown to Clintonville its just sheer paradise loaded with shops, art galleries, cheap eats and almost 100 bars. We also have the beautiful modern Lennox threatre with-in walking distance of OSU. You want an international film go to Grandview to the Drexel and dont forget to eat and have coffee afterwards one of many Grandviews eating spots.

OSU has 48,000 students , I was lucky to live near OSU and see the hustle and bustle along High Street 24 hours a day. OSU is a beautiful campus, it is so alive and so diverse you would not believe your eyes. OSU is also not stuck-up at all, the people who attend it are friendly.

The Internship oppurtunities are amazing in Columbus, the Lantern is filled with oppurtunities you can see it On-Line. Where else do you have payed interns making good money their junior year of college.

[cjfjapan]

Come on folks, Columbus easily beats any other city that has a school in the big 10.

I mean seriously have any of you been on North High Street, from Downtown to Clintonville its just sheer paradise loaded with shops, art galleries, cheap eats and almost 100 bars. We also have the beautiful modern Lennox threatre with-in walking distance of OSU. You want an international film go to Grandview to the Drexel and dont forget to eat and have coffee afterwards one of many Grandviews eating spots.

OSU has 48,000 students , I was lucky to live near OSU and see the hustle and bustle along High Street 24 hours a day. OSU is a beautiful campus, it is so alive and so diverse you would not believe your eyes. OSU is also not stuck-up at all, the people who attend it are friendly.

The Internship oppurtunities are amazing in Columbus, the Lantern is filled with oppurtunities you can see it On-Line. Where else do you have payed interns making good money their junior year of college.


I'd have to disagree with you on a couple of points. I spent a summer at OSU a few years ago--granted it was summertime--and I wasn't really too impressed with the campus. It felt crowded and old--just overrun with people. High Street was busy, but there too the stores felt old and run down. The surrounding neighborhoods--especially immediately south and west of campus--were full of crappy student housing--at until you got a little further south toward Short North. I liked a lot of the neighrborhoods in Cols--very dense and easy to bike--but I found downtown kind of drab; The Short North is pretty nice--a little too huppiefied for me.

I haven't been to Iowa City--but I would place Bloomington above it, from what I have heard, mainly because I think the IU campus is by far the best in the Big Ten, the neighborhoods surrounding the university and downtown have been revitalized, and the downtown has experienced a recent housing boom. Parking is a mess, thank goodness, so it pays to bike or walk to school, and for a town its size, it has to have the best all around food choices anywhere--from at least eight or nine international groceries, two Tibetan restaurants, a late Eritrean, Mediterranean, Afghan and all the typical kinds (but no Vietnamese--dammit!); several health food stores and a diminishing number of fast food joints--the plague of Indiana. Bloomington is also surrounded by state and national forests, and is a mecca for cycling and hiking--at least for the Midwest.

And if we stretch it a bit and consider Nwestern to be not just in Teetotalling Evanston, but Chicago--that would have to put it at #1 or #2. Lafayette last? Fine with me. :) Just my two cents...

[MinneapolisGuy]

Well, I work in downtown and the U of M is nowhere to be found. :)

Really, it all depends on what you consider "downtown", I consider anything west of the river (esp. along Washington Ave) downtown, I'd even go as far as considering east bank and the majority of Campus as downtown ending at the Academic health center (Medical School). The law School and all of west bank abutts 7 corners which is rapidly becoming incorporated into Downtown, it may not be in the CBD, but its definatly downtown.

[edsg25]

And if we stretch it a bit and consider Nwestern to be not just in Teetotalling Evanston, but Chicago--that would have to put it at #1 or #2. Lafayette last? Fine with me. :) Just my two cents...

Evanston hasn't totalled a tee in a long, long time; drink is readily available (although without liquor stores). The city stopped being dry ages ago and today, downtown Evanston is 180 degrees removed from the stoggy Evanston of yore. Shopping and restaurants are great and more developments on the way. 25 storey+ condos are part of the mix. The great thing for NU is that it has all that Chicago has to offer on its doorstep, but Evanston offers a real college town right off campus.

Cjfjapan, check out Iowa City if you like Bloomington. Both are great towns. IC has a nicely developed downtown that is constantly being updated. I agree IU is a spectacular campus; Iowa has its own beauty, too: the Iowa River runs right through the campus and the city, with bluffs on both sides. IC combines friendly small town setting with real sophistication.

As for B10 campuses, as far as beauty goes, I'd put IU, NU, MSU, & UW at the top of the list, with Iowa just behind.

[Steely Dan]

Evanston hasn't totalled a tee in a long, long time; drink is readily available (although without liquor stores).


there are liquor stores in evanston (well at least two that i know of). Evanston 1st Liquors on davis was the first liquor store to open in evanston in 1984. and up until very recently, the downtown osco had an adjoining liquor store, but osco has been demolished as part of the sherman plaza redevelopment.

but edsg25 is correct, booze now flows freely at dozens and dozens of evanston restaurants and bars. if any of you thought that stodgy old evanston was still dry think again. in fact one of the best places to wet your whistle is the bar inside the new 18 screen movie theatre in downtown. what you do is you arrive about 45 minutes before your show time, purchase your ticket, and then go enjoy an unusually stiff and very reasnoably priced manhattan from the bar, and then enjoy your alcohol-enhanced movie-going experience ;).

[edsg25]

there are liquor stores in evanston (well at least two that i know of). Evanston 1st Liquors on davis was the first liquor store to open in evanston in 1984. and up until very recently, the downtown osco had an adjoining liquor store, but osco has been demolished as part of the sherman plaza redevelopment.

but edsg25 is correct, booze now flows freely at dozens and dozens of evanston restaurants and bars. if any of you thought that stodgy old evanston was still dry think again. in fact one of the best places to wet your whistle is the bar inside the new 18 screen movie theatre in downtown. what you do is you arrive about 45 minutes before your show time, purchase your ticket, and then go enjoy an unusually stiff and very reasnoably priced manhattan from the bar, and then enjoy your alcohol-enhanced movie-going experience ;).

...or even enjoy a bite at Wolfgang Puck below. Sharptent, isn't the Osco supposed to return to the block (not the same location, I know, that's going to be a new B&N)? and arent' liquor stores still severely restricted?

[Steely Dan]

^ meh, i could take or leave puck's, nothing special in my opinion, and kinda pricey. my favorite eats in evanston are cozy noodle, olive mountain, dixie kitchen, the little mexican cafe, merle's BBQ, and of course, the old sentimental favorite dave's italian kitchen (far from the best italian restaurant in the world, but i grew up going to that place so......). all offer fantastic food at very reasonable prices, especially the 1st two.

the reason i like the bar at the evanston movie theater is the fact that it's actually a part of the theatre, a wonderful, magical snack-counter chock full of booze. yes!


as for the downtown evanston osco, i've heard that they have pulled out for good, which is odd considering that the evanston location was the highest volume stand-alone osco store in the entire chain. oh well. what downtown evanston really needs is a walgreen's (i hate CVS) and a regular-joe grocery store (i hate whole-foods).

[The anti-cheesehead]

it may not be in the CBD, but its definatly downtown.

I consider the CBD to be downtown and the U of M definately not in downtown. Anything on Washington ave east of 35W is not downtown to me.

[edsg25]

Great places, Sharptent. I think Merle's has some great down home southern cooking...and great sides. How about Pete Miller's for great steaks and ribs in a really nice, clubby atmosphere?

Hey, I remember Dave's Italian Kitchen when it was next to Pine Yard and across from where the Century is now...back in the bad old days before even the Research Park went in.

I think the Orrington's remodeling has brought a new element of class to downtown Ev

[Steely Dan]

Hey, I remember Dave's Italian Kitchen when it was next to Pine Yard and across from where the Century is now...back in the bad old days before even the Research Park went in.


yeah, for many years dave's sat across church st. from that abandoned dominick's. man, thinking back to the way that whole section of town was not too long ago, what a night and day change.

[Big City]

I love this thread! I went to Kansas State in Manhattan, and while I was there visited every (old) Big 8 school, and most Big 10 college towns. Most of these lists everyone presents are pretty accurate, I'd say.

However, in order to make sense of the comparisons, maybe true college towns shold be listed separately from bigger cities that happen to also have Universities.

Bloomington, Iowa City, Lawrence, Manhattan, Stillwater, Boulder, College Station, State College, Madison, Lincoln, Columbia, Lafayette/WLafayette, Norman, Lansing/E Lansing and Ann Arbor are separate poulation centers and minor media centers (in most cases with radio stations, and some with TV stations) whose university dominates the local culture. Particularly the smallest of those towns. Almost everyone in those cities are connected to the University pretty directly somehow.

Places like Columbus, Minneapolis/St Paul, Chicago (Evanston) and Austin to a lesser degree, are multi-faceted metropolitan centers that cannot be called true college towns (a case can still be made for Austin though). Comparing the two categories leads to weird results. Columbus and Minneapolisare not really college towns. They don't belong in this list.

However, the good news for these cities, is that in big-city to big-city comparisons, Large Metro Areas with big colleges always fare better in lifestyle and arts issues than big cities without big-time colleges. You can compare Columbus to Indianapolis, and some will say Columbus wins because of the streetlife and cultural boost OSU lends to the city's character. But comparing Columbus to Lawrence, KS or Iowa City makes little sense.

But if you want to compare the two, then compare "student life" in each city. That might make more sense.

Overall, a very fun comparison!

[edsg25]

Places like Columbus, Minneapolis/St Paul, Chicago (Evanston) and Austin to a lesser degree, are multi-faceted metropolitan centers that cannot be called true college towns (a case can still be made for Austin though).

Big City, I fully agree with you on separating the large from the small. You are right; big cities are so multifaceted that they do not offer the same relationship or connection with the campus as more issolated communities do.

That said, I still wouldn't put Evanston in with Columbus and Mpls. Of course Evanston is smack in the middle of Chicagoland, but once in Evanston and around NU, you are definitely in a collegiately inspired world. Evanston grew up around NU, came into existence because of NU. This is a very traditonal college atmosphere. NU, of course, is far more residential than commuter (and the vast majority of its students are out of state), so while Evanston is an essential part of Chicagoaland, it still creates its own collegiate world.

Even in the city itself, the University of Chicago gives the Hyde Park community a sense of being a being college town.

On the whole, though, you are right and your K-State roots may prove that the Little Apple is a better college town than the Big Apple.

[edsg25]

I wonder how many other college towns in the midwest can compete with the Big Ten/Big 12 ones mentioned here? I've never been to some of the MAC campuses in Ohio, but from what I'm aware, places like Athens (Ohio U) and Oxford (Miami) are pretty great, with almost an Ivy League feel to them.

The one that makes little sense to me is South Bend. Not only doesn't it feel like a college town, even the areas off Notre Dame's very collegiate campus don't feel collegiate. It's like ND fades into nothingness.

As I mentioned on the post above, the University of Chicago's Hyde Park community has what I call a very intellectual (not rah! rah!) collegiate environment. Often we don't look at neighborhoods like Hyde Park within a major city as being the "college towns" they truly are (i.e. like Westwood in LA)

[ColDayMan]

The MAC campuses here in Ohio are the oldest in the Midwest; Ohio Univeristy is the oldest university west of the East Coast while Miami U of Ohio and Marietta (which is not MAC) are the runner-ups. Bowling Green and Kent are your average campuses.

[cjfjapan]

The MAC campuses here in Ohio are the oldest in the Midwest; Ohio Univeristy is the oldest university west of the East Coast while Miami U of Ohio and Marietta (which is not MAC) are the runner-ups. Bowling Green and Kent are your average campuses.

According to their website, Vincennes University beats OU (1804):

"Vincennes University, founded in 1801 as Jefferson Academy and incorporated as Vincennes University in 1806, is the oldest continuously operating institution of higher education west of the Allegheny Mountains and north of the Ohio River. William Henry Harrison, the first governor of the Indiana Territory and later President of the United States, was the first chairman of the Board of Trustees of Vincennes University."

http://www.icn.org/about/profiles/html/vincennes.html

[ColDayMan]

Interesting. I've never heard of it. Though I believe Ohio University is still the oldest in the "west" simply due to it never changing names (as Jefferson Academy became Vincennes). Ohio University was known by another school name (I believe Athens Reserve or something) in 1790'sish. But whatever, both are old.

[cjfjapan]

Interesting. I've never heard of it. Though I believe Ohio University is still the oldest in the "west" simply due to it never changing names (as Jefferson Academy became Vincennes). Ohio University was known by another school name (I believe Athens Reserve or something) in 1790'sish. But whatever, both are old.

Good point--I know that VU claims (rightly) to be the oldest university in Indiana, but it sounds like their claim to being the oldest in the Old Northwest is up for debate.

[cwilson758]

"BLOOMINGTON...Baby!"

Seriously, I loved my time in Bloomington and I think it compares well if not better than most big-ten college towns. As for Columbus...it's too big to be a "college town," IMO.

<Despite that, Indy's IUPUI is growing so fast that it will be a major urban college in the very near future, if it isn't already considered as such. >

[edsg25]

"BLOOMINGTON...Baby!"

Seriously, I loved my time in Bloomington and I think it compares well if not bet\0\05{\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0ten college towns. As for Columbus...it's too big to be a "college town," IMO.

<Despite that, Indy's IUPUI is growing so fast that it will be a major urban college in the very near future, if it isn't already considered as such. >

Bloomington is a winner by any measure. I love the setting in the Indiana hill country (and the short ride to Brown County is spectacular...and just too hilly to be the midwest).

IU is a remarkable campus. More than any other public school I've seen, Indiana looks like a private university. No state school is so nicely scaled, so lacking in huge, overpowering (and sometimes soulless buildings) as is IU. I know the university's early roots were not the typical ones for a state's flagship university. IU was a place apart from the start.

For small cities in the Big Ten, Bloomington and Iowa City have it made.

[NovaWolverine]

Ann Arbor is great. It's a very yuppie campus in some ways, but there is great food, great buildings, definitely not lacking overpowering buildings, like Angell Hall, and the Law Quad. Duderstadt Center is a modern powerful building, the Lurie Building too. There's a lot of places to chill too, I don't know, I've been to some other really nice campuses like Charlotteville, Athens and Chapel Hill, I think it's up there. Iowa City is nice too. Never been to Bloomington.

[edsg25]

There is a thread going on current on the n.e. board about the best college towns in that region.

A sense I get from reading the posts that differs from the way we appear to respond in the midwest is:

1. there may be more appreciation for the concept of big city as college town. that's particularly true of Boston, which may be the ultimate big city college town in the nation. Here in the midwest (and I'm drawing this pereception from general opinion I have, not from this thread) we don't view Chicago the way that easterners view Boston in that respect.

2. a lot more appreciation for suburban college towns...particularly Cambridge. That, too, may well be affected by the importance of Harvard.

Do you think that there is a difference between the way easterners and midwesterners view college towns (which is understandable: most of our favorite college towns are in non-urban areas because that is where the majority of our state universties are located; the east, with a far more private-school presence, tends to have more urban college towns)?

Or do you think we in the midwest appreciate the urban/suburban setting, as well?

I've brought up on this thread that Evanston is, IMHO, a college town on the rise since it has been infused in recent years with a wonderful urban flair in its suburban setting. Do you think the dynamics of such a suburban setting, especially in this era of urban/metropolitan excitement, will make Evanston rise in the ranks, despite the fact that NU is smaller than the other the other colleges in discussion here?

[the pope]

IU is a remarkable campus. More than any other public school I've seen, Indiana looks like a private university. No state school is so nicely scaled, so lacking in huge, overpowering (and sometimes soulless buildings) as is IU. I know the university's early roots were not the typical ones for a state's flagship university. IU was a place apart from the start.


more limestone!

[edsg25]

more limestone!

get out those cutters from Breaking Away!!

[JivecitySTL]

Ann Arbor, closely followed by Madison.

[the pope]

get out those cutters from Breaking Away!!

no seriously, its funny how much they love their indiana limestone down there. Cleaning and washing it like no tomorrow. Its not a bad thing, just a funny observation. Then again, if i had such a famous stone (i'm not being sarcastic) i'd be proud of it too.

[edsg25]

no seriously, its funny how much they love their indiana limestone down there. Cleaning and washing it like no tomorrow. Its not a bad thing, just a funny observation. Then again, if i had such a famous stone (i'm not being sarcastic) i'd be proud of it too.

hey, i'm with you. indiana limestone is a gem. too bad it couldn't have been shipped up to west lafayette, as well.

[LouisvilleJake]

WE DO NOT WANT TO BE LIMESTONE. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK HEAD. We are a brick and black rail campus. We like it that way. We in no way want to be like Indiana University.