151 Front Street | Approved | 36 st | 172.5 m | Downtown

[Travis007]

http://www.skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=36126

It's a 36 storey office building that would be 167.4 m or somewhere over 500 ft. No other info.

[Mr Man]

I posted this awhile back on here. It's definetly going to be a cool building once real rendering are released. Look for a thread by me regarding a freedom tower-type building or something.

[Mr Man]

Here it is: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=192902

[Filip]

Interesting, finally an office building with significant height being built. Btw, how tall is Simcoe place, will this be taller?

[Etheren]

^Simcoe Place is about 450 ft. Yeah this will be taller. When this gets built it will be next to Simcoe Place in the skyline.

Here's the site with info about the current building that stands on this site:http://www.151frontstreet.com/

[Filip]

Thank God that thing's getting torn down. I always found it an eyesore when driving down the Gardiner.

[Ed007Toronto]

That's not getting torn down. They are going to build above it.

That building is very important. A large part of our internet traffic goes through it.

[Ed007Toronto]

http://www.151frontstreet.com/connectivity.html

[Filip]

I wonder how they'll manage to build above it without interrupting the traffic flow? Meh, it's so ugly I feel horrible that something nice and modern will rise above such a decrepit building. But, maybe they'll reclad it? Let's hope so...

[Filip]

Now how soon could we see this baby rise? Are there tenants already found for this project?

[valantino]

"They are going to build above it."

They are actually building it where the Skywalk is now with only a connection to 151 Front Street at street level

[cassius]

Well, a bit of both. There's a small overhang section as far as I know.

[elliot]

Cassius admit it... you are salivating and dying to get a real glimpse of that strange elevation.

Correct?

[valantino]

^Isn't everyone? - unfortunately the developers site has nothing about the project

[KGB]

I hate that building on Front...it got the absolute worse reno...I remember they just stuck a few gree-painted steel "awnings" on it, and cut out a few windows...and then brought is cheezy theme restos like Olive Garden or some similar shit. It got even worse right away, as all that shit strted to rust after one winter.






KGB

[Travis007]

If this site is just too important, then they should just move the proposal to across the street with a similar ugly building with a Jack Astors in it. I was walking on Front St. today and I noticed it. There's plenty of room too, there's like 2 parking lots right next to it.

BTW: Mr Man, how exactly do you know that this is a Freedom Tower like tower?

[Mr Man]

Freedom Tower was porbably a poor choice of words, but you have to remember I was pissing drunk when I posted. :cheers:

The elevation looks very strange. Definetly unique.

[valantino]

"If this site is just too important, then they should just move the proposal to across the street with a similar ugly building with a Jack Astors in it."

WHAAAA? That's a great building

"I hate that building on Front...it got the absolute worse reno...I remember they just stuck a few gree-painted steel "awnings" on it, and cut out a few windows."

LOL - so true

[Etheren]

An estimate calculation with a calculator says that this tower would be somewhere around 557 ft. I hope that this tower starts rising in this decade, its where we need a tall tower in our skyline, between Simcoe Place and the main cluster.

[rbt]

If this site is just too important, then they should just move the proposal to across the street with a similar ugly building with a Jack Astors in it.

Umm. The whole point of this expansion is to extend the data centre space by nearly 37000 sq meters ("green industrial" usage). The office space on top is a bonus.

[valantino]

^or that the realty investment group that recently purchased 151 Front doesn't own the land across the street

[rbt]

That may also be true, but 151 Front is a high availability data centre, meaning that fibre comes from multiple points into the building, etc. Putting a building on top of this near 20 York is likely significantly cheaper than laying new infrastructure on the north side of the street.

Dual power grid connections, 4 fibre entry points, dual water connections (cooling, etc.) among other things is not the easiest to do.

[cassius]

Cassius admit it... you are salivating and dying to get a real glimpse of that strange elevation.

Correct?
elliot. oh am I ever! :) I can't wait to try rendering this one out.

rbt
I'm pretty sure it's more than 4 fibre lines running into there. My company alone has 3 fibre lines running into there I think. But that only enhances your point.

[valantino]

That may also be true, but 151 Front is a high availability data centre, meaning that fibre comes from multiple points into the building, etc. Putting a building on top of this near 20 York is likely significantly cheaper than laying new infrastructure on the north side of the street.

Oops, used the wrong conjunction - meant to say 'and'

Yeah, I can imagine these fibre lines are taking full advantage of the neighbouring railway corridor

[rbt]

I'm pretty sure it's more than 4 fibre lines running into there. My company alone has 3 fibre lines running into there I think. But that only enhances your point.

Not fibre lines, 3 to 4 fibre entryways. That is, one or more runs of fibre leaves the building in each cardinal direction to a regional hub, each of which is capable of sustaining about 75% of the buildings traffic so one could be lost (via backhoe, explosion, etc.) and have no service interruptions if it works as planned.

[Waterloo_Guy]

Ok, I found it. Time to revive this thread.

[phunky]

Ok, I found it. Time to revive this thread.

unless u have new information on it what exactly is the point in reviving it?

[Filip]

There's apparently a report coming out in January regarding this building and on UT there's new elevations....

Apparently most of the space in that building is accounted for, so construction would start promptly.

[Waterloo_Guy]

Ya, this one could start construction very soon. I think the reason it fell off the radar is that most of the space was leased or spoken for long ago, so there was no advertising for the tower.

[valantino]

^where did you read most of the space is accounted for?

IMO, we haven't anything because it yet to be approved

[Filip]

^where did you read most of the space is accounted for?

IMO, we haven't anything because it yet to be approved

I believe in the report it said most floors will be taken by the data centre, and only a few floors will be available for leasing. So, it seems like most of it is accounted for.

[valantino]

^the data centre space needs to be leased as well

[Filip]

^^Hmm.. I wouldn't know, I thought the data centre was just a jumble of mainframe computers and servers taking up an entire floor.

[Waterloo_Guy]

I thought it was approved ages ago.

[Martinsizon]

Here is the old document for it: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2005/agendas/committees/te/te050330/it032.pdf

[g2fl]

^^Hmm.. I wouldn't know, I thought the data centre was just a jumble of mainframe computers and servers taking up an entire floor.

You are correct - a data centre is a collection of servers .... however you need clients that want to host their servers within the data centre. Think of it as having computers as your tenants instead of people

[Jaye101]

Isn't it extremely easy to lease this space since it can be done internationaly?

(i.e Skyscrapercity leases space in LA for it's servers)

[valantino]

^LA's an international hub for this sort of thing

if it is so extremely easy then why aren't more telecom hotels being built and/or others expanded upon and/or existing ones being converted into police service garages

[Jaye101]

I wasn't making a statement, I was asking a question.

It would be nice if you'd elaborate more on what you said instead of just jumping down people's throat. Instead of trying to make shallow points, explain why things are happening. Why is it so different for a "telecom hotel" to be located in Toronto as opposed to Los Angeles, if it is being rented by people in another part of the world.

[Waterloo_Guy]

Actually, 151 Front is also an International hub; it pretty much is the internet.

[valantino]

^pretty small in comparison to others (the proposed telecom hotel in the now demolished Molson Plant on fleet would of being over two times as large) A hub for Canada but international is IMO pushing it from what I've heard


I'm no expert but from what I've heard Los Angeles is cheaper (prehaps from overbuilding) as well as most telecom companies prefering to stay national and large corps have their own (Royal Bank's data centre next door is twice the size as well)


according to the 151 Front's website - it has a total vacancy of 15% to 20%

[12x]

Some links with info and ranking for the internet exchange housed at 151 front.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Internet_Exchange
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_Exchange_Points_by_size

[urban 2.0]

Toronto Internet Exchange
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
The Toronto Internet Exchange (TorIX) is an Internet Exchange Point located in a carrier hotel at 151 Front Street in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

TorIX initially started in July of 1996 within the RACO facility at 151 Front St. W.

As of 2005-10-28, TorIX had 64 connected members and traffic rates over 3 Gbit/s, making it the largest IXP in Canada. It thus follows that TorIX is the exchange point with the largest membership of Canadian ISPs. However, Canada is a very large country physically, and thus many ISPs, especially those that operate in the western provinces of the country, are not connected, as they are located over 2000 km away.

TorIX offers ethernet connections of 10/100TX or 1000SX, providing a large range of speed. TorIX assigns peers IP addresses from its own pool; however, TorIX is purely a layer 2 service, and it is up to individual members to negotiate peering agreements and routing protocols such as BGP4. Carriers wishing to connect to TorIX must make colocation arrangements on their own, negotiating a contract with one of the many companies operating at 151 Front street.

[Waterloo_Guy]

based on the rendering(planning doc) posted on UT I get the feeling this tower might be one of the better developments we see in the next few years.

[urban 2.0]

based on the rendering(planning doc) posted on UT I get the feeling this tower might be one of the better developments we see in the next few years.

... I agree the glass work if kept will be rather interesting.

[CrazyCanuck]

How can you say that? You don't even know what it's going to be like. That future rendering is just a guess.

[Jaye101]

Now lets try this again.

[Waterloo_Guy]

That was a strange bit of editing. Anyway, the point is I'm looking forward to what happens on this project.

[urban 2.0]

How can you say that? You don't even know what it's going to be like. That future rendering is just a guess.

... well I guess you didn't look at the application on the City of Toronto website, look at it and make your own call on how it will look.... the link is in an early post.

[thryve]

In November, someone pointed out that there'd be more information in January. That's this month!!!! 3Dementia from UrbanToronto said:

"I thought it was dead but 151 Front/7 Station Street, the weird cantilevered 36 storey creature, is alive and well.

Spoke to the planner and the final report will be out in January. Section 37 worked out etc.. I'm assuming they have an eye on an anchor tenant since they've been working at this for more than a year."

Let's hope it looks as original-Freedom-Tower-ish as it seems to be:

http://www.upside-down.ca/sdphotos/151Front.jpg

[Waterloo_Guy]

Wasn't this approved ages ago? Couldn't construction start any time? I'm not really up to date on this one.

BTW, Thryve, I was going to revive this thread just to get people talking about it again, it's such a (potentially) great project. Guess you beat me to it.

[valantino]

^it was submitted exactly 2 years ago

[phunky]

i really like the design. i'd love to see a real rendering!

[thryve]

Well, I wouldn't have revived this thread if it was just going to die again.

This month there should be an announcement, apparently. And it's such an important building currently, that it's pretty much a sure thing that it's going to be built, right?

[Waterloo_Guy]

I'm excited about this one.

[valantino]

"And it's such an important building currently, that it's pretty much a sure thing that it's going to be built, right?"

it will be competing with Bay Adelaide , RBC and Telus

[phunky]

i don't think it's competing with telus or rbc or bay/adelaide as they all have tenants.
there is enough demand to support more office towers in Toronto.

[pancsi]

It will be competing with the other buildings coming online because once those buildings are finished there will be approximately 1,000,000 square feet of unleased office space. They may have tennants but they are not fully leased. I'd be surprised (pleasantly) if there are any more office projects for the downtown any time soon.

[Waterloo_Guy]

I don't think the other three will impact this one at all.

[valantino]

its office with some telecom space which is hardly in short supply - its possible Northam will land a tenant but the odds are against it


I don't think it's competing with telus or rbc or bay/adelaide as they all have tenants. there is enough demand to support more office towers in Toronto.

roughly 1.7 million sqaure feet is still available in these towers

[cassius]

151 is the largest and most trafficked datacentre in Canada and is busting at the walls. I would think they could find tenants for additional space without a problem. They probably have a waiting list as it is right now. Maybe not 1 million square feet, but a decent amount.

[valantino]

first time I've heard the expression ' bursting at the walls' used for a building only 80% occupied

if there was deparately need for telecom hotel space , the one in Liberty Village - connected to the same lines as 151 Front - wouldn't of been converted to a police garage

[urban 2.0]

first time I've heard the expression ' bursting at the walls' used for a building only 80% occupied

if there was deparately need for telecom hotel space , the one in Liberty Village - connected to the same lines as 151 Front - wouldn't of been converted to a police garage

But 151 is on a North American fiber loop... ideal for major web companies, banks, etc. Liberty Village just has good connections, but different league compared to 151.

[valantino]

can't say I really know the processes but to me, it just seems logical that if there a pressing need for new telecom space, the liberty village building, built by a major telecom that went bust, on the same corridor as 151, would of being easy to adapt to telecom hotel uses for the ridiculous low sales price

the banks have their own buildings

[cassius]

I can't imagine that the telecom space you're talking about compares to 151's connectivity. Are there any data carriers in Canada that can come anywhere near close? It may not be true but I've heard that 90% of data in Canada goes through 151 at some point.

[CrazyCanuck]

I think it is true Cassius. It's home to 150 major telecommunications companies, that I know for sure.

[Waterloo_Guy]

I'm not really surprised that this tower is needed given the importance of 151 Front. And I don't think vacancies in other new towers will have an impact for one simple reason--location. This has got to be the least convenient place to build an office tower in the city. Have you seen the location and what is involved in doing this? They wouldn't go to the trouble if any old place downtown or near by would do. Thus, I don't see other properties competing with this tower.

[Waterloo_Guy]

It also occurs to me that with this tower, Ritz, RBC, Festival...the Simco tower is going to be overshadowed in the years to come.

[urban 2.0]

I can't imagine that the telecom space you're talking about compares to 151's connectivity. Are there any data carriers in Canada that can come anywhere near close? It may not be true but I've heard that 90% of data in Canada goes through 151 at some point.

Well with my limited knowledge of the technology I do know that there's an issue with backup systems.

So lets say your main servers go down, and you need to switch to your backup systems, they need to be relatively physically close. Since the backup is a mirror of the main system, they can't be located across the city due to time delays due to hardware (imagine if your hard drive was located in Vancouver).

So I bet the main reason for the high demand of physical space at 151 is to physically allow for more computer servers. And if the space is maxed out, there's little office space in the area to relocate to.

[cassius]

I think the weakest link at 151 right now is the power backup, not the server infrastructure. Unless you mean hosted customer servers, in which case backups can be located anywhere geographically. It's quite common to do live mirroring (load balancing) from multiple data centres in different locations.

The main reason for high demand for space at 151 is due to the fact that it's unparalleled in Canada. Isn't 151 (TorIX in specific) in the top 30 largest Internet exchanges worldwide?

[Filip]

The final report is done guys!

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2007/te/bgrd/backgroundfile-1220.pdf

Ok.. comments, wonderful tower! So the random diagonal lines WERE toned down from before, there's still one random line though.. fabulous nevertheless.
I love the cantielevered design above station street/skywalk. This project will definitely bring in some class to this sad part of Front street.

Final height is 566 ft.. so quite a tall one: 36 floors of office.

It seems when this is approved, we will have 4 office tower biggies going up in downtown Tdot!!!!

[Taller, Better]

Seems to me like good planning not to let 80% reach 100% capacity before they start thinking of creating new facilities.

[thryve]

This one will be interesting, thanks to its cantilevered and squeezed-in site plan. Interesting and random things… it will be built over Station Street? For some reason I never thought about that

And new concrete sidewalks for Station Street? Also fun to read through some of the local benefits money from the developer will have, in exchange for an increase in the zoned density for the site.

I miss the overall silhouette/shape of the old design, however. From Front it will still look really cool though, with the cantilevered portion and all.

[Filip]

This will look awesome! I've been over the report again - hell, this is going to KICK ASS! I really wonder what the timeline is like on this thing...

[citycentre]

Guess what I found?:banana:

The rendering.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h103/mkgr736/Front_Station_model2_Formatted.jpg

[TORONTOCOPENHAGEN]

That is amazing ;-)

Nice find.

What will the exact height be?

Regards,

P

[citycentre]

From the city's report 172.4 metres.

[TORONTOCOPENHAGEN]

That will be great! Is it approved?

This will kind of connect the CBD with the developments on the other side of the tracks.

P

[DrT]

Great find citycentre. I love this design. Some pizazz with elegance. Exciting.

[phunky]

I can't wait to see a real rendering!

edit: just saw it on the previous page. it's alright... but the glass looks really plain in the rendering. i'll blame that on the rendering, I think this one will look better in real life.

[Filip]

I hope to Jesus the glass isn't opaque.. imagine the shit that would look like when the aluminum ages?

Anyway, this looks really interesting - but methinks something is off here: the old city report had this design (random diagonal lines everywhere) yet the new official report has a much more toned down version, boxy and certainly not this.

[Waterloo_Guy]

Awesome! It looks like the existing building is getting a makeover, can anyone confirm this?

BTW, :banana2:

[Dino Domingo]

It looks great! To hell with boxes!

[algonquin]

Guess what I found?:banana:

The rendering.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h103/mkgr736/Front_Station_model2_Formatted.jpg

oh baby.

[CrazyCanuck]

She's a beaut, but the glass looks a little unrealistic to me.

[Taller, Better]

She's a beaut, but the glass looks a little unrealistic to me.

That is a very good caution. It does look a bit unattainable. We have certainly found renderings can contain an element of wishful thinking. Still, it is a very handsome rendering.

[Waterloo_Guy]

I think the final product will be a fine one. Jesus, just when you think we're getting spoiled here in Toronto, we get this beauty of an office tower AND 1 Bloor East comes back! What's next, Richmond-Adelade, BCE 3, ...?

[Taller, Better]

It is absolute craziness here in this building boom. One project following another with seemingly no end in sight..

[Waterloo_Guy]

I'm having a hard time keeping track. I like to follow the Calgary boom also, but I don't keep track of their developments like I used to--I can barely keep track of ours.

[Taller, Better]

^^ Who has time? Things are popping up daily.

[wheelingman]

I really like the design. Good for Toronto. What a great city.

[Martinsizon]

From the Post:

New 'Carrier hotel' planned for Front St.
Proposed tower would house city's electronic nervous system
Greg Macdonald, National Post
Published: Wednesday, February 14, 2007

Toronto and East York community council yesterday approved a 36-storey telecommunications centre to be built on Front Street West.

The building, called a carrier hotel, will be the city's electronic nervous system, where several companies will house their networks side-by-side -- basically a giant server room with the capacity to connect Torontonians to various networks.

The proposed tower will replace the current carrier hotel at 151 Front St. W., which "is home to more than 150 telecommunications companies and is one of North America's most connected buildings," according to a company Web site.

The new centre will be more than five times taller than the existing structure and will have "the power to connect half a country," Peter Doering, vice-president of developers Northam Realty Advisors, told council yesterday.

It will also have a number of offices available for rent.

"This building will secure and sustain telecommunication capacity downtown," said Councillor Adam Vaughan.

The project will also create new jobs, and the neighbourhood will see improvements such as better sidewalks, he said.

Architectural drawings submitted to council show a thin, opaque tower facing north on the south side of Front Street.

Building schematics showcased various connections to the area's underground PATH system, as well as a publicly accessible route through the building that will connect the Skywalk to Front Street.

"This is an adventurous building," Mr. Vaughan said.

After negotiations with the city, the developers agreed to make the building as environmentally friendly as possible, with natural heating and cooling systems and an option for a "green roof."

Northam will also contribute $1.5-million for ''community development.'' Some councillors voiced their opposition to how the contribution was being allocated. An estimated $150,000 will go to affordable housing in Ward 20, but the nearest neighbourhood with that type of program is more than a mile away, said Councillor Kyle Rae.

Mr. Vaughan replied that the immediate area will receive the majority of the money while neighbourhoods that really need it get very little.

"From what I've seen of [such funding], the more affluent areas of my ward are benefitting while two blocks away the don't have locks on their doors," he said.

The development, which still needs to be approved by city council, would be complete by 2010.

© National Post 2007

[Waterloo_Guy]

Wow, good news. Sounds like they have tenants. 2010 completion means they will begin soon, since the project is a little on the complex side.

[b13]

will this progect be seen on the skyline from the lake? and if not how much taller would it have to be to be seen?

[Filip]

It's going to be quite seen.. It's actually pretty big - pretty tall.

[KGB]

Hmmm....since it's not really an office building, then it doesn't require the usual windows to cover most of the facade...might make for an interesting design....sounds like something right up Libeskind's alley.





KGB

[Tuscani01]

It reminds me of cracked ice on a lake... Very Canadian eh?

[thryve]

I actually don't like that rendering. It's... too opaque. I think it will look different/better in real life.

I was initially expecting dark blue, almost black smoked glass. That would've been cool... with big OPAQUE (!) silver diagonal lines. Yum.

[Waterloo_Guy]

Hmmm....since it's not really an office building, then it doesn't require the usual windows to cover most of the facade...might make for an interesting design....sounds like something right up Libeskind's alley.





KGB

Good point. Is this built as an office tower, or is it some strange new thing? Like the ROM but tall?

[phunky]

Any news on this? Is it still only proposed?

[b13]

^ if you read the article which is about a few posts up it says "Toronto and East York community council yesterday approved a 36-storey telecommunications centre to be built on Front Street West". So to answer your question, the building is not proposed it is approved!

[phunky]

^ if you read the article which is about a few posts up it says "Toronto and East York community council yesterday approved a 36-storey telecommunications centre to be built on Front Street West". So to answer your question, the building is not proposed it is approved!
Oh I was reading the topic title. Thanks :)

[valantino]

^probably pre-leasing

just a refresher ... its all glass and over 80% office space

[phunky]

Weird lookin glass haha. It must be a bad render, or non-reflective glass, if that's possible...

[InTheBeach]

Weird lookin glass haha. It must be a bad render, or non-reflective glass, if that's possible...

haha.

No reflective glass would be a bad idea for a telecomunications centre.

[Waterloo_Guy]

This tower has some real promise. I think it might turn out to be one of the better projects under way.

[valantino]

No reflective glass would be a bad idea for a telecomunications centre

or parking of which there are more floors dedicated to parking than telecomunications

[MattyG]

I can't see the rendering! Any ideas why or where I can find it?

[phunky]

For some reason the rendering isn't in the thread lol. A mod should place it in the first post.

[Holland]

When will this begin construction?

Now that I hear it's all glass, I am excited for it. The rendering of it looked heavy and metallic, but now I'm excited for construction to begin.

[Filip]

Well they first have to secure a lead tenant.... Though according to VofE that shouldn't be too difficult (now I wonder where he is, as I'm curious as to what happened of his impending office boom prediction). As soon as a tenant is secure construction being almost momentarily.

[Istrian]

I can't see the rendering! Any ideas why or where I can find it?


Here's the rendering:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/istrian/151FrontStreet.jpg

[WinnipegPatriot]

Sexy!!! It would be even more so at 70 stories....

[Dream Brother]

What's the latest news on this? Any construction date?

[iliamo]

Wow thats a nice tower, it looks really futuristic compared to some other buildings we have in Toronto like FCP or Scotia. But its really nice, i like it.

[thryve]

Instead of visually integrating it with/around the existing brown brick building there, they should have kept the shiny new stuff from going above the brick building, so that the tower looks like its own building. The ugly existing building really draws from the new tower because of this visual integration.

On another note, I know they cannot tear down the brick building, but could they not give it a glass facade or something different to match the new tower entirely? You would think they could find a way to protect all the hardware/computer systems inside and still give atleast the front of the building a new look altogether. If they don't do it now, then they sure won't do it after the tower is constructed...

[Dream Brother]

Instead of visually integrating it with/around the existing brown brick building there, they should have kept the shiny new stuff from going above the brick building, so that the tower looks like its own building. The ugly existing building really draws from the new tower because of this visual integration.

On another note, I know they cannot tear down the brick building, but could they not give it a glass facade or something different to match the new tower entirely? You would think they could find a way to protect all the hardware/computer systems inside and still give atleast the front of the building a new look altogether. If they don't do it now, then they sure won't do it after the tower is constructed...

I think it's safe to say they won't splurge on the base. When is this slated to start construction?

[leaf345]

God knows.

[Dream Brother]

God knows.

So ask Him...Do you have His msn address?

[vancouverite/to'er]

I bet it'll look nicer than the rendering:cheers:

[Dream Brother]

I bet it'll look nicer than the rendering:cheers:

If it ever gets built.

[valantino]

anything is possible with a 5% vacancy rate providing we avoid a tech boom like bust

[Waterloo_Guy]

If it ever gets built.

Why such skepticism?

[Dream Brother]

Why such skepticism?

I haven't heard any news on this. Just seen the rendering and it's been around for ages.

[g2fl]

If you check out the architect's website, they have additional images for this project. IMO based on the images there, this building does not look too shaby at all.

Enjoy - http://www.tampoldarchitects.com/ (Click Designs for Images 1 - 4 and Environments Images 5 - 8)

[Jackhammer]

Thanks for the link.

[ScrapeTheSky]

The old rendering was a bit better, but it's still cool

OLD:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2149/1702036343_e06f114237_o.jpg

NEW:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2121/1702887674_2d38c42023_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2245/1702035085_591ba5eef1_o.jpg

[crazeed]

this tower is kind of wierd and 80's ugly, i liked the original render alot more. If the side facing the waterfront is agled as it appears to be in the last reder that would make it alot more interesting though. The podium is pretty nice.

[Canadian Chocho]

why the hell is it that whenever a second or third rendering come out, it's worse?

[Skybean]

If you check out the architect's website, they have additional images for this project. IMO based on the images there, this building does not look too shaby at all.

Enjoy - http://www.tampoldarchitects.com/ (Click Designs for Images 1 - 4 and Environments Images 5 - 8)

That's an awfully confusing webpage... "OBJECTS... TEXTURES... DESIGNS" :ohno:

I think after the first render, it becomes more realistic. Still looks fine to me.

[Dino Domingo]

I think the 2nd design is nice too. At least it ain't no box!

[Taller, Better]

Well... in many cases, the second or third rendering is simply more accurate and with less fantasy than the original.

[Elkhanan1]

The older and newer versions are vitually identical, except for the facade treatment and few other refinements.

I think the base is very strong and the more I look at the tower, the more I like it. Its quite complex but in a very suble way. This one will end up looking better than the renders once built.

[rise_against]

Who is the main tenant for this building?

[Bisonblight]

That's an awfully confusing webpage... "OBJECTS... TEXTURES... DESIGNS" :ohno:

I concur ... horrible.

I think the new renders are nice. Looks more like and office building, less like the headquarters of some evil secret police or something.

[yin_yang]

this is a huge improvement! looks really world-class. the only negative is the podium not extending on top of the old 151 front. what is that alleyway between the podium and the tower, hard to tell if it's a street or parking.

[Dream Brother]

this is a huge improvement! looks really world-class. the only negative is the podium not extending on top of the old 151 front. what is that alleyway between the podium and the tower, hard to tell if it's a street or parking.

How is it a huge improvement to go from something completely unique and interesting to something so ordinary?

[monkeyronin]

What poop. I like the new podium, but the tower itself is just way too PoMo. Looks quite similar to Simcoe Place really...which was built in 1996. And what the hell is that thing going up the side?

[WinnipegPatriot]

Former design is superior...nothing else like it in TO!

[Dream Brother]

People seriously need to start standing up and demanding more out of this city's architecture. The first rendering was awesome and could have worked in any other city but Toronto is so bloody passive when it comes to making bold statements with architecture. When Toronto tries to be bold it fails. eg. Rom, OCAD.

[metroboi_nay]

It could be worse, its ok, the original was better tho.

[monkeyronin]

People seriously need to start standing up and demanding more out of this city's architecture. The first rendering was awesome and could have worked in any other city but Toronto is so bloody passive when it comes to making bold statements with architecture. When Toronto tries to be bold it fails. eg. Rom, OCAD.

Mmm, at it again already, I see. Its not like "Toronto" is at fault for the mediocre design of this building (nor is it responsible for any building save municipal ones). And aside from this, most contemporary architecture here is quite elegant and stylish, even if it doesn't meet your kitschy tastes.

And uh, ROM & OCAD...failures? Hahaha.

[ScrapeTheSky]

You know, the fact that it looks like Simcoe Place is a big plus for me! :)

[Dream Brother]

You know, the fact that it looks like Simcoe Place is a big plus for me! :)

That just shows how unoriginal it became.

[urban 2.0]

who knew Front Street West would become the next Bay and King?! -- albeit with not as spectacular buildings

[ggaleazz]

I don't know the 2 renderings look very similar in it's modernist/po-mo style. IMHO the podium in the second rendering is far superior to the first one. The only difference I see in the tower is the treatment/design of the windows. And I doubt that the treatment in the first rendering was anything near reality anyway.

The whole let's do odd angles and wierd shapes is being overplayed in most architecture anyway. That kind of stuff works best in institustions where they make a big impact. Putting them in general buildings makes them look cheesy.

And how can you say the ROM is a failure and like the first design at the same time?

[Dream Brother]

I don't know the 2 renderings look very similar in it's modernist/po-mo style. IMHO the podium in the second rendering is far superior to the first one. The only difference I see in the tower is the treatment/design of the windows. And I doubt that the treatment in the first rendering was anything near reality anyway.

The whole let's do odd angles and wierd shapes is being overplayed in most architecture anyway. That kind of stuff works best in institustions where they make a big impact. Putting them in general buildings makes them look cheesy.

And how can you say the ROM is a failure and like the first design at the same time?

Because the ROM is a mess. The metal sheets aren't even the same colour. It looks like total disarray. This just looked way cooler than the ROM. The metal with the light blue windows was a nice juxtaposition.

[KGB]

Because the ROM is a mess. The metal sheets aren't even the same colour. It looks like total disarray.


What do you mean "even"...you make it sound like that's only one of many faults with it or something. That's the only excuse I keep hearing...and that's not even a problem in the first place.

It's not that I couldn't entertain a critique involving ROM, but it would have to be from someone with a way more qualified opinion than yours.




KGB

[Regan4000]

The ROM in my opinion is a great (terrible) example of a buikding changing for the worse as it slowly downgrades considerably from rendering to finished product.

Why are the discoloured metal sheets NOT an issue? I assume they had planned for them to all be the same colour. And if they didn't, and had planned some here and there to be different hues of grey, then the designer should be shot.

It was a good idea when it was proposed as a giant 'crystal' jutting out of the ROM. It looks like a ripped up, discoloured pop can that someone jammed into the side of the ROM because they couldn't find a recycling bin.

I know it's only my opinion, and KGB's expert analysis is always 'daunting', but it really just looks terrible, and is certainly not attracting the attention they were planning for it to attract.

[Jackhammer]

The ROM in my opinion is a great (terrible) example of a buikding changing for the worse as it slowly downgrades considerably from rendering to finished product.

Why are the discoloured metal sheets NOT an issue? I assume they had planned for them to all be the same colour. And if they didn't, and had planned some here and there to be different hues of grey, then the designer should be shot.

It was a good idea when it was proposed as a giant 'crystal' jutting out of the ROM. It looks like a ripped up, discoloured pop can that someone jammed into the side of the ROM because they couldn't find a recycling bin.

I know it's only my opinion, and KGB's expert analysis is always 'daunting', but it really just looks terrible, and is certainly not attracting the attention they were planning for it to attract.
Actually, I find it to be a happy accident. The sheets were intended to be the same colour, but the manufacturer screwed them up. I am a surprised there is no recourse, perhaps they can not guarantee between dye lots.

That said, the design is meant to look like a crystal, which due to reflection and refraction of light often appears as being shaded in the structure. Hence, the design is true to form.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f182/JackhammerTO/laser_crystal_m1.jpg

I think it looks great and looks intended. I only feel it looks bad to those that know the shading was not intended.

[Taller, Better]

I find it strange when people obsess about a slight discolouration in some slats and tend to dismiss the entire structure because of that. I think that is a trifle narrow approach to architectural criticism. To me, the variation in the tone provides a playful sensation of "light and dark"...adding a bit of life to the structure. For the same reason you do not stand with your nose three inches away from an Impressionistic painting and complain that all the little daubs are not exactly the same colour, you must stand back and examine the architectural impression as a whole.


"and is certainly not attracting the attention they were planning for it to attract"

Could that be perhaps because the doors to the extension are locked, and will not open to the public til the galleries are installed in the Spring? Just a guess, mind you.

[Regan4000]

I'd say miscoloured panels to be quite a large mistake.

It looks terrible, in many people's opinion. How many other crystals have so many critics?

Considering the enormous scale and price, and buzz of this project, it really hasn't garnered much public reception.

I understand that people here actually LIKE and find this extension to be GOOD ARCHITECTURE, I just find it hard to even look at. Especially considering what the original plan made it out to be.

Steel panel siding has never been a classy, aesthetically pleasing way of finishing a building, let alone mismatched panels. It looks like a warehouse on acid. A WAREHOUSE, not some awe-inspiring, life changing, piece of art.

I know people like KGB and Taller, Better really like this addition. I just don't see it, personally.

[Dream Brother]

What do you mean "even"...you make it sound like that's only one of many faults with it or something. That's the only excuse I keep hearing...and that's not even a problem in the first place.

It's not that I couldn't entertain a critique involving ROM, but it would have to be from someone with a way more qualified opinion than yours.



KGB

Ya, because clearly I'm under your level. I think your Ushanka is on too tight and hindering the flow of Ragu to your head.

[Dream Brother]

The ROM in my opinion is a great (terrible) example of a buikding changing for the worse as it slowly downgrades considerably from rendering to finished product.

Why are the discoloured metal sheets NOT an issue? I assume they had planned for them to all be the same colour. And if they didn't, and had planned some here and there to be different hues of grey, then the designer should be shot.

It was a good idea when it was proposed as a giant 'crystal' jutting out of the ROM. It looks like a ripped up, discoloured pop can that someone jammed into the side of the ROM because they couldn't find a recycling bin.

I know it's only my opinion, and KGB's expert analysis is always 'daunting', but it really just looks terrible, and is certainly not attracting the attention they were planning for it to attract.

Tru Dat Chow Yun Phat. Exactly what I was thinking. Btw, you wouldn't happen to be Regan Burns from the game show people don't even know they're on..."Oblivious?"

[Dream Brother]

Why are you complacent with something that is so mismatched in colour? Perhaps the different hues of gray are supposed to represent multiculturalism. Yep, that's it.

[Regan4000]

No, I am not that guy, although, he is quite the hilarious prankster.

Plus I pronounce my name Reagan. Don't ask me why.

[ggaleazz]

Yet another thread gone haywire.

I might add that the error in the shading of the panels is more a mistake on the part of the construction contractor and the builder more than the architect. I doubt the architect spent much time around this project after the design.

So it's not the design that was flawed, but the execution of the design that feel short of his vision.

[monkeyronin]

Considering the enormous scale and price, and buzz of this project, it really hasn't garnered much public reception.

Did you not see the "opening party" or the weekend when the interior was being previewed? If not, check through TB's photothread.

[Regan4000]

Oh, I did. But everything has an opening party. There was a lot of buzz around this project, I'm not denying that in the slightest.

Ultimately, I know there are people out there who like the way the crystal turned out. In the interest of saving this thread, I don't like it, but who cares what I think.

[KGB]

I don't like it, but who cares what I think.


Well, sometimes I DO care what people think....otherwise, i would let them just wallow in their ignorance (which most of the time I do). But this is a site that encapsulates architecture as one of its mainstays, so I make an effort to encourage other people to make an effort.

Look...I'll try and just make it simple...if you are boiling a Libeskind building down to shading on some cladding, then you are obviously missing something important about the architecture. And, when you define something by what it isn't, rather than what it is, you are also making a fundemental flaw....all highly artistic buildings, especially when they also involve cutting edge engineering, never remain the same from concept to reality.




KGB

[Dream Brother]

Actually, I find it to be a happy accident. The sheets were intended to be the same colour, but the manufacturer screwed them up. I am a surprised there is no recourse, perhaps they can not guarantee between dye lots.

That said, the design is meant to look like a crystal, which due to reflection and refraction of light often appears as being shaded in the structure. Hence, the design is true to form.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f182/JackhammerTO/laser_crystal_m1.jpg

I think it looks great and looks intended. I only feel it looks bad to those that know the shading was not intended.

But the shading isn't even. It's all scattered.

[Dream Brother]

I find it strange when people obsess about a slight discolouration in some slats and tend to dismiss the entire structure because of that. I think that is a trifle narrow approach to architectural criticism. To me, the variation in the tone provides a playful sensation of "light and dark"...adding a bit of life to the structure. For the same reason you do not stand with your nose three inches away from an Impressionistic painting and complain that all the little daubs are not exactly the same colour, you must stand back and examine the architectural impression as a whole.


"and is certainly not attracting the attention they were planning for it to attract"

Could that be perhaps because the doors to the extension are locked, and will not open to the public til the galleries are installed in the Spring? Just a guess, mind you.

This is completely different than a painting. Paintings are supposed to be looked at from afar. This just sticks out like a sore thumb.

[Dream Brother]

No, I am not that guy, although, he is quite the hilarious prankster.

Plus I pronounce my name Reagan. Don't ask me why.

Is that because you're a movie star that plans on running for the oval office?

[Dream Brother]

Well, sometimes I DO care what people think....otherwise, i would let them just wallow in their ignorance (which most of the time I do). But this is a site that encapsulates architecture as one of its mainstays, so I make an effort to encourage other people to make an effort.

Look...I'll try and just make it simple...if you are boiling a Libeskind building down to shading on some cladding, then you are obviously missing something important about the architecture. And, when you define something by what it isn't, rather than what it is, you are also making a fundemental flaw....all highly artistic buildings, especially when they also involve cutting edge engineering, never remain the same from concept to reality.



KGB

Ya, but in any other city i'm sure the panels would have turned out the same colour. You can't appreciate it for what it is because it doesn't look the way it should in terms of colour. The shape is decent but what good is that if the colour is a mismatch? Everone is too content with flaws in this city. If this was built in a city like London with all the different coloured panels there would be much more of an outcry because they have much higher standards than we do. Toronto needs to adopt more of a perfectionist type attitude and not accept 2nd rate architecture. Look at all the construction going on this city. This would be a great time to really change the city's aesthetic look and we're just adding to the already mundane architecture. With a few exceptions. eg. City Place. What a great opportunity wasted.

[KGB]

Ya, but in any other city i'm sure the panels would have turned out the same colour.


This idea that Toronto has some kind of curse of 2nd rateness that nobody else has is just a figment of your imagination (or you've been reading too many Hume articles).

There would be no panels of any kind in any other city...you're logic is wonky.

Why Why Why are we still talking about those fuking panels???? You are one dumb post away from being left for hopelss.



If this was built in a city like London with all the different coloured panels there would be much more of an outcry because they have much higher standards than we do.

Right...this is the same city that wasted precious land on a Millenium Dome??? Ha Ha.. com'on...London is a great city...but is tremendously flawed too...Toronto outguns it in many ways. Sorry, you're just walking around with blinders on.




Toronto needs to adopt more of a perfectionist type attitude and not accept 2nd rate architecture.


Or...maybe you just need to learn what perfectionism and 1st rate architecture is before deciding we need it.




KGB

[Dream Brother]

This idea that Toronto has some kind of curse of 2nd rateness that nobody else has is just a figment of your imagination (or you've been reading too many Hume articles).

There would be no panels of any kind in any other city...you're logic is wonky.

Why Why Why are we still talking about those fuking panels???? You are one dumb post away from being left for hopelss.





Right...this is the same city that wasted precious land on a Millenium Dome??? Ha Ha.. com'on...London is a great city...but is tremendously flawed too...Toronto outguns it in many ways. Sorry, you're just walking around with blinders on.







Or...maybe you just need to learn what perfectionism and 1st rate architecture is before deciding we need it.




KGB

The only thing Toronto outguns London for is the possession of firearms within the city.

[outinleftfield]

Oh, shut up, and get back on topic! And if :ohno::ohno:TO is so terrible..... LEAVE Brother, LEAVE!!

[Taller, Better]

Ya, but in any other city i'm sure the panels would have turned out the same colour. You can't appreciate it for what it is because it doesn't look the way it should in terms of colour. The shape is decent but what good is that if the colour is a mismatch? Everone is too content with flaws in this city. If this was built in a city like London with all the different coloured panels there would be much more of an outcry because they have much higher standards than we do. Toronto needs to adopt more of a perfectionist type attitude and not accept 2nd rate architecture. Look at all the construction going on this city. This would be a great time to really change the city's aesthetic look and we're just adding to the already mundane architecture. With a few exceptions. eg. City Place. What a great opportunity wasted.


"phunky" was also equally obsessed by the slight variation of colour in the slats. Deja-vu all over again!

[Mollywood]

I have to agree with the negative view of the mismatched colour panels. Every time I go past the ROM, it just really bothers me. For a project this large, prominent and important to the city, it's unacceptable. Somebody screwed up big-time, I'd sue. I hope it's fixed one day. I much prefer the titanium panels on the Denver Museum. It's like the awkwardly spaced video screens on Metropolis, it still irks me.

[Mollywood]

The only thing Toronto outguns London for is the possession of firearms within the city.

Nothing seems to turn you on more, than to piss-off as many people as possible. You are quite the provocateur. lol :bash: :bash: :bash: :lol:

[KGB]

"It's a building. It's not a poodle,"

"My intention was never to create some illusory crystal. That would be moronic. It has developed from the inside out, not outside in.


If you want to understand the art, perhaps listen more carefully to the artist. If you find the varied panels on the facade as the only thing occupying your mind in regards to the building, than you can be sure you have missed a big slice of the pie....wise up a little, rather than continue to defend a rather dumb position.

Personally, I find the different hues preferable to one shade of matte finish...if they were shiny, it may not work. But given the whole thing will weather with time, it won't really be a big issue for long one way or the other.

In trademark architect style, a speacial chair was designed for this building (Spirit House Chair)...you can actually purchase one of the limited editions at Nienkämper...I think they are like $12,000 though.

He also designed a 29 foot custom Swarovski Chandelier for a space in the ROM as well.




KGB

[Dream Brother]

Nothing seems to turn you on more, than to piss-off as many people as possible. You are quite the provocateur. lol :bash: :bash: :bash: :lol:

Every architecture forum needs a Claude Lemieux. I've been to London 3 times and Toronto is no where near it's class.

[WinnipegPatriot]

Of course it isn't...anyone who would suggest otherwise is delusional to say the least. Very few cities are in its class...

[pancsi]

I've been to London 3 times and Toronto is no where near it's class.

I lived in London while attending the University of Western Ontario and I wasn't impressed.

[mckarisma]

of course London is in a different class, you need a ton of money to live there. Toronto is a better choice however for the average citizen who isn't making hundreds of thousands of dollars...uhhh also London has a large time advantage over Toronto, and who knows how Toronto will be in the couple hundred years...(if we make it that long on this planet). Bit more history there...:bash: Back to the topic...

Anyone have thoughts on when this one will break ground??
Does it have a lead tenant?

[Taller, Better]

Every architecture forum needs a Claude Lemieux. I've been to London 3 times and Toronto is no where near it's class.


Every architectural forum needs a hockey player?

[Dream Brother]

Every architectural forum needs a hockey player?

No. A pest.

[Taller, Better]

^^ We have been especially blessed in the pest department in the TO forums!!
In that respect we are World Class! :)

[Jackhammer]

^^ We have been especially blessed in the pest department in the TO forums!!
In that respect we are World Class! :)
We have a hockey player too. I still lace them up every Monday night.

[ONE HUMAN]

I have to agree with the negative view of the mismatched colour panels. Every time I go past the ROM, it just really bothers me. For a project this large, prominent and important to the city, it's unacceptable. Somebody screwed up big-time, I'd sue. I hope it's fixed one day. I much prefer the titanium panels on the Denver Museum. It's like the awkwardly spaced video screens on Metropolis, it still irks me.

And I have to agree with you on both counts. With the ROM Crystal it wasn't intentional, and even if it were, it would have been the wrong decision. It simply looks wrong and distracting... because it is. This is why I find the Crystal always looks better at night or in low-light situations such as dusk when the mismatched panels aren't obvious.

I'm getting tired of people defending the current appearance. On the whole, I do love the ROM Crystal, but I'm surprised that the mismatched panels were considered acceptable enough to be used. I'd love to hear the whole story on how that all went down and the conversations that took place. There must have been some sort of rebate involved that made it all worthwhile, in somebody's mind at least.

As for Metropolis, or Toronto Life Square if we are calling it that, the layout of the small video screens seems to be intentional, yet I don't understand it. I'm not just talking about the two columns on one side, but rather that weird gap before those two columns. Who made that decision and why? I'd love to hear someone explain and justify it. To me it looks like someone measured wrong when they were spacing them. Then again, I'm all about the little details... more so than the average person.

[Taller, Better]

I'm getting tired of people defending the current appearance. .


And I am getting tired of the incessant complaining about such a minor detail, so we
cancel one another out, don't we? :cheers:

The fact is, I don't find it to be an unpleasant effect, and as KGB has pointed out weathering will
take care of the variation in due time as the aluminum oxidizes.

[NorthYorker]

I have to agree with the negative view of the mismatched colour panels. Every time I go past the ROM, it just really bothers me. For a project this large, prominent and important to the city, it's unacceptable. Somebody screwed up big-time, I'd sue. I hope it's fixed one day. I much prefer the titanium panels on the Denver Museum. It's like the awkwardly spaced video screens on Metropolis, it still irks me.

Yes, it is a shame that something this important could be fucked up, but I guess we're just going to have to live with it for a while. I do expect, like you said, the panels to be replaced eventually, but its unreasonable to expect the museum to come up with money for small detail after commiting millions of dollars and years of hard work to the project. The good thing about designs like this one; the panels are easy to replace and when we do, we have the option of completely changing the look of the structure. The most relevant question seems to be, how long will it take for the ROM to earn back enough money to start worrying about aethetics?

[Taller, Better]

The bulk of the building has been paid for in cash already, by donations. The biggest shot in the arm will come when Americans start travelling out of their borders again.

[ggaleazz]

Personally I didn't think the issue that the posters in question were bringing up was that the panels were mismatched, but that the entire building architecturally was bad. That's a key difference. I think the design is fantastic but that the execution in the end result was slightly off the mark.

[Taller, Better]

^^ I'd say there has been rather a lot of complaining about the panels being mismatched, and perhaps less criticism that the entire building was architecturally "bad". In any case, "art" is not intended to please everyone...except the type of art that some people buy in parking lots and hang above their sofas. It is "ok" that not everyone likes this building. When the new Guggenheim was built near Bilbao, most locals HATED it. Absolutely ridiculed it. When it became an object of international praise, it caused quite a few to reconsider their original assessment. The good thing is that the ROM leaps out at you and makes a dramatic statement. Love it or hate it, it will be one of the new symbols of Toronto.

[isaidso]

Agree.

The only valid criticism of the ROM and other recent museum projects around the world has been the tendency for the building to overwhelm the art it is meant to exhibit. When the building becomes the focal point, rather than a good backdrop, it can diminish the viewing experience.

Valid, but not a bad problem to be saddled with.

[ONE HUMAN]

And I am getting tired of the incessant complaining about such a minor detail, so we
cancel one another out, don't we? :cheers:

The fact is, I don't find it to be an unpleasant effect, and as KGB has pointed out weathering will
take care of the variation in due time as the aluminum oxidizes.

The fact is that it isn't a minor detail, and if you consider it such, what exactly would you consider a major detail? I would think the entire exterior finish of a building to be something less than trivial. I don't think it's horrible the way it is, but I feel it would have been better with matching panels as was originally intended. Sometimes we end up with happy accidents, and while you and KGB may think this is one of them, the majority would disagree. For a landmark building, I feel it fell short of its goal, which is disappionting. Let's just make sure those postcard photos are taken at night. :D

[KGB]

For a landmark building, I feel it fell short of its goal


If its goal was to have matching hues of grey on its exterior panels, then I would say you are correct. Luckily, I think the goal of the ROM expansion is somewhat more comprehensive than that.

This enitre topic is so absurd. Please, please, please stop talking about multiple-hue vs single-hue panels as if it were a pivital matter one way or the other, or if you think it is, that your opinion about it had any value. It's becoming painful to listen to. Can you do me this little favour?



The only valid criticism of the ROM and other recent museum projects around the world has been the tendency for the building to overwhelm the art it is meant to exhibit.


Luckily in Toronto's case, both ROM and AGO have collections to go inside those buildings that can match the hype of the architects designing the expansions.




KGB

[Taller, Better]

I honestly think it is minor, and just can't get myself all worked up about it. Poor phunky used to hyperventilate about it, but I just couldn't see the tragedy then, or now.

[ggaleazz]

^^ I'd say there has been rather a lot of complaining about the panels being mismatched, and perhaps less criticism that the entire building was architecturally "bad". In any case, "art" is not intended to please everyone...except the type of art that some people buy in parking lots and hang above their sofas. It is "ok" that not everyone likes this building. When the new Guggenheim was built near Bilbao, most locals HATED it. Absolutely ridiculed it. When it became an object of international praise, it caused quite a few to reconsider their original assessment. The good thing is that the ROM leaps out at you and makes a dramatic statement. Love it or hate it, it will be one of the new symbols of Toronto.

Well if we go back to the main topic of this thread, which was the post modern tower being built at 151 Front W. Some posters expressed displeasure at the architecuture of the building and cited the ROM as an example of a bad building (I don't have the urge nor the time to find the exact post but that is what started the recent discussions which have gotten away from the main topic).

If the sole complaint against the ROM has been the mismatching of the panels (to which I will repeat this is more a construction/building/contracter issue more than the architect and design of the building). Then I fail to see any relevance to 151 Front W as an example against the current design of the building.

[Taller, Better]

^^ I'll agree with that one. But as we all know, these threads tend to stray when there is
absolutely no news happening on the subject tower. ;)

[ONE HUMAN]

This enitre topic is so absurd. Please, please, please stop talking about multiple-hue vs single-hue panels as if it were a pivital matter one way or the other, or if you think it is, that your opinion about it had any value. It's becoming painful to listen to. Can you do me this little favour?

Nope, can't do you that favour. And it's even more painful to read people like yourself and Taller, Better defending the final outcome of the ROM Crystal, and justifying it with references to how the light plays off the different shades of gray, yada yada yada, blah blah blah, and yet you don't stop. I'm not losing sleep over the mismatched panels, I don't hate the building, and I don't blame the architect, however, I think in the end, we ended up with less than what could have been. And that's too bad. I'm not sure how else to say it. And if you don't get that, then you're the one that has lost sight of the bigger picture.

[Taller, Better]

"And it's even more painful to read people like yourself and Taller, Better defending the final outcome of the ROM Crystal"

Excellent news. If I can cause you a little pain by day, One Human, I sleep better by night! :colgate:



"I'm not sure how else to say it"


Are you thinking that there is actually a need to say it yet again?
The subject is simple.. it is a matter of opinion.

[Dream Brother]

Nope, can't do you that favour. And it's even more painful to read people like yourself and Taller, Better defending the final outcome of the ROM Crystal, and justifying it with references to how the light plays off the different shades of gray, yada yada yada, blah blah blah, and yet you don't stop. I'm not losing sleep over the mismatched panels, I don't hate the building, and I don't blame the architect, however, I think in the end, we ended up with less than what could have been. And that's too bad. I'm not sure how else to say it. And if you don't get that, then you're the one that has lost sight of the bigger picture.

Forget KGB. He's probably like that computer game nerd in the South Park World of Warcraft episode. Just sitting at his computer all day with crumbs of chips scattered on his belly.

[Taller, Better]

I wouldn't bet the family jewels on that one, sonny. :lol:

[ggaleazz]

Forget KGB. He's probably like that computer game nerd in the South Park World of Warcraft episode. Just sitting at his computer all day with crumbs of chips scattered on his belly.

Oh snap boi!!! He's probably wetting those crumbs with tears now. You told him what was up dawg!

[Taller, Better]

yup. Shakin' in his boots. Eyes red from crying...

[KGB]

I think in the end, we ended up with less than what could have been. And that's too bad. I'm not sure how else to say it. And if you don't get that, then you're the one that has lost sight of the bigger picture.


In the end, EVERYTHING is always less than it could have been. Trust me...there is nobody as picky as I am, but I know the difference between what matters and what doesn't, and I also know when to stop defining things by what they aren't, and define them by what they are. And at the end of the day, ROM is fabulous...full stop.




Forget KGB. He's probably like that computer game nerd in the South Park World of Warcraft episode. Just sitting at his computer all day with crumbs of chips scattered on his belly.

So, when you aren't making an ass of yourself here, I'm guessing you waste your time watching cartoons? Sorry...I don't get the reference.

Man, some of you are lucky I don't run this place...I'm completely liberal in the non-censored free-for-all exchange of words...but as for blatant immaturity...I would ban it on sight.




KGB

[Dream Brother]

In the end, EVERYTHING is always less than it could have been. Trust me...there is nobody as picky as I am, but I know the difference between what matters and what doesn't, and I also know when to stop defining things by what they aren't, and define them by what they are. And at the end of the day, ROM is fabulous...full stop.






So, when you aren't making an ass of yourself here, I'm guessing you waste your time watching cartoons? Sorry...I don't get the reference.

Man, some of you are lucky I don't run this place...I'm completely liberal in the non-censored free-for-all exchange of words...but as for blatant immaturity...I would ban it on sight.




KGB

South Park is an intelligent cartoon. It's satire at it's best. And I apologize for the comment.

[valantino]

South Park is an intelligent cartoon. It's satire at it's best.

You're insane

[Regan4000]

I'm not getting involved in the argument, because I don't care, but South Park is one of the best satires on TV, if not one of the more intelligently written TV programs in general.

Check it out sometime Valantino, it's actually very funny. Trey Parker and Matt Stone just signed some $70 million contract for seasons 11, 12, & 13.

I think it is one of Comedy Centrals highest rated shows.

[WinnipegPatriot]

That, unfortuantely, indicates many people aren't very bright if their viewing habits include South Park.

[Regan4000]

What the... Winnipeg Patriot, you make yourself sound quite naive, the show has won multiple Emmy's.

From Wikipedia:

# South Park has been nominated for the Emmy Award for Outstanding Animated Program seven times (1998, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007). The show has now won twice, for the 2005 episode "Best Friends Forever".[13] and the 2006 episode "Make Love, Not Warcraft".[14]
# On April 5, 2006, it was announced that the show had won a Peabody Award.[13]
# In 2007, Time magazine included the show on their list of the "100 Best TV Shows of All Time." [15]
# South Park was nominated for important awards such as the 1998 Annie Award for Outstanding Achievement in an Animated Primetime or Late Night Television Program. It was also nominated for the 1998 GLAAD Award for Outstanding TV - Individual Episode for "Big Gay Al's Big Gay Boat Ride". It also received an Image Award nomination for Outstanding Lead Actor in a Comedy Series (Isaac Hayes) in 1999. [16]
# South Park was nominated for a 2006 Teen Choice Award for "Best Animated Show", but lost to Family Guy.[17]
# South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut was nominated for an Oscar for "Best Music, Original Song" for the song "Blame Canada". They lost to Phil Collins and made fun of him in two consecutive episodes in season 4 ("Cartman's Silly Hate Crime 2000" & "Timmy 2000"). Creator Trey Parker explained the reasoning for these barbs in the season 4 DVD commentary. Saying, "we were fully expecting to lose, just not to Phil Collins." It was performed by Robin Williams during the televised award show, which was the first to carry a TV-14 parental advisory, in part because of the performance of that song, which contains some adult language.
# Another track from the movie, "Uncle Fucka", won an MTV Movie Award for Best Musical Performance; Trey Parker and Matt Stone accepted the award, and thanked the audience for "not nominating Phil Collins".
# South Park is the last actively-running television series that has won a CableACE Award. It won the award for Best Animated Series in 1997, the last year the awards were given out.[

[WinnipegPatriot]

Who the fuck cares...it is shitty programming! Part of why today's youth are so fucked up and ignorant!

[Regan4000]

Your use of vocabulary couldn't contradict your statement any more.

The show is brilliant.

[WinnipegPatriot]

The show is among the lowest form of programming aimed at those without much brain matter--not unlike yourself apparently. My you are such a staunch supporter of the show...enoguh said!

[ggaleazz]

Seriously people what the FUCK! Can we stay on topic in at least one thread?

[Regan4000]

OKOK, back to the topic...

Go fuck yourself Winnipeg Patriot

[WinnipegPatriot]

LOL--might be too much info for you...but the thing is: I CAN!!!!

[KGB]

South Park is an intelligent cartoon. It's satire at it's best. And I apologize for the comment.


Apology accepted.

As for animated adult comedy shows, Family Guy is far more clever, with its constant outside reference sketches, which overshadow any actual plot.



KGB

[Regan4000]

Hey, KGB, pleeeeassse tell me you've seen the South Park that satires Family Guy.

Judging from your post you've either seen the 2 part episode, or your post was just eerily coincidental.

[Regan4000]

LOL--might be too much info for you...but the thing is: I CAN!!!!

:naughty::shifty::master::horse::applause:

[Dream Brother]

Apology accepted.

As for animated adult comedy shows, Family Guy is far more clever, with its constant outside reference sketches, which overshadow any actual plot.



KGB

Family Guy? Please. That is the worst cartoon comedy I've ever seen. Not even remotely funny. South Park is miles beyond it. You should watch the South Park episode that pokes fun at how Family Guy gets it's jokes.

[noob(but not really)]

The show is among the lowest form of programming aimed at those without much brain matter

No, that would be the latest episodes of the Simpsons.


@Dream Brother: Family Guy is also good.

[monkeyronin]

The show is among the lowest form of programming aimed at those without much brain matter--not unlike yourself apparently. My you are such a staunch supporter of the show...enoguh said!

If you can't see the way South Park satirizes, mocks, and just generally makes an irony of society/pretty much everything and everyone...then that really says something about your intelligence...LOL.


As for animated adult comedy shows, Family Guy is far more clever, with its constant outside reference sketches, which overshadow any actual plot.

Family Guy is just one big 1980s television reference. Still pretty funny, but can't match the wit and irony of South Park.

[WinnipegPatriot]

If you can't see the way South Park satirizes, mocks, and just generally makes an irony of society/pretty much everything and everyone...then that really says something about your intelligence...LOL.




Family Guy is just one big 1980s television reference. Still pretty funny, but can't match the wit and irony of South Park.

Of course...silly me; I really should jump on the South Park bandwagon...:ohno: Monkeyronin's idea of a good time: watching South Park, scratching his fat gut, and guzzling back some beer while scarfing down a Hungry Man TV dinner...What a life!

[KGB]

Family Guy is just one big 1980s television reference. Still pretty funny, but can't match the wit and irony of South Park.

Southpark charaters are undeveloped. And while it "seems" to be vulgar and in bad taste, it's rather unsophisticated poopy humour, rather than true dark humour. And they rely too much on just being politically incorrect. I mean, how many times can you use jesus until it's just old. That's why I thought it was funny at first, but then it just got boring.

If I'm going to watch crap tv, I need something a little more demented and creative..."Prom Night Dumpster Baby" goes places South Park could never go...they can both be just as tasteless, but South Park tries too hard, and it shows.

I like the fact that Family Guy's out-takes are the real entertainment...not the "plot" of the show, and it isn't the same joke told over and over. Because let's face it, no plot on any of these shows is worth watching anyway.




KGB

[ScrapeTheSky]

I enjoy both Family Guy and South Park and American Dad even. Drawn Together is a great show too. Of course Heroes, Battlestar Galactica, Doctor Who and Torchwood are my true loves. And I really have no idea how this thread turned into a South Park and Family Guy love/hate fest.

[KGB]

I really have no idea how this thread turned into a South Park and Family Guy love/hate fest.


I believe it's origins can be traced to some attempt at insulting me.


Of course Heroes, Battlestar Galactica, Doctor Who and Torchwood are my true loves.

Uh huh...and I get accused of being the nerd?????




KGB

[CrazyCanuck]

I've noticed an increase of threads going way off topic lately. This is a warning, if it continues to happen, i'll have to start cracking down, and I don't want to.

[Dream Brother]

Southpark charaters are undeveloped. And while it "seems" to be vulgar and in bad taste, it's rather unsophisticated poopy humour, rather than true dark humour. And they rely too much on just being politically incorrect. I mean, how many times can you use jesus until it's just old. That's why I thought it was funny at first, but then it just got boring.

If I'm going to watch crap tv, I need something a little more demented and creative..."Prom Night Dumpster Baby" goes places South Park could never go...they can both be just as tasteless, but South Park tries too hard, and it shows.

I like the fact that Family Guy's out-takes are the real entertainment...not the "plot" of the show, and it isn't the same joke told over and over. Because let's face it, no plot on any of these shows is worth watching anyway.




KGB

Jesus is never even in the new seasons. And they don't use the same jokes over and over again. Each episode is completely different. Watch season 11 on southparkzone.com It's arguably the best. They're getting better and better each season. Family Guy is just pathetic. I've literally never laughed once while watching it. It has no flow and doesn't know how to stick to a topic without cutting to some random, irrelevant scene that just makes you say, ok...?

[circuitboy84]

Can we keep this thread on the topic of 151 Front St W ?:bash:

[mckarisma]

Although I think this conversation is pointless on a skyscraper site, I do admit I enjoy both shows differently. I would suggest checking out the imaginationland trilogy of south park, season 11...pretty funny stuff. And yes its immature, but that is the whole point. If people don't like these shows don't watch them, if you do, then do. I mean this is an argument of opinions over which is funnier...pointless. My folks would say it is crap, but then again I don't enjoy their masterpiece theatre, or mystery shows, so again the argument is pointless and you are all entitled to your own opinion. Anyway, I don't post much here because everyone argues about nothing too much but I was wondering if anyone knew if 151 front is going to be starting anytime soon??

Cheers

Karizma

[CrazyCanuck]

When I send out a warning, that doesn't mean continue the conversation. Next person that does goes to the brig. The last people that tried to call my bluff did end up there so don't try me.

[ggaleazz]

Does anyone know when construction is expected to start on this tower?

[WinnipegPatriot]

And what are the chances of it being re-designed anew?

[valantino]

Does anyone know when construction is expected to start on this tower?

could be 30 days or 3000 ... depends on securing a sizable tenant

[ggaleazz]

could be 30 days or 3000 ... depends on securing a sizable tenant

Well it's a tech centre with 90% of the current building (and network capacity?) already occupied IIRC. I doubt they're sitting around on their hands waiting for a tenant. I was under the impression that they needed the space now.

[valantino]

It's an office building connected to a telecom hotel which, according to you, has at least 10% (actually closer to 20%) room to spare.

There is more planned space devoted to an above grade parkade than the expansion of the telecom hotel (something like 500000 office, 100000 parkade, and 80000 telecom hotel)

[CrazyCanuck]

Thank you guys. Now lets keep it this way.

[Sixrings]

any news on this building. I thought there was no tenant issue. Is it possible the developers are simply waiting for the tunnel next to it to be completed?

[Sixrings]

news? anyone know when the tunnel connecting the two simcoe streets will be completed

[ggaleazz]

bump,

looking for news on this sucka

[mckarisma]

^ That would be nice, I believe they are still looking for a main tenant.