Wich city in the midwest is having the bigggest Boom???

[gronier]

Choose one of the above.

[Steely Dan]

in terms of what? if were talking skyscrapers, it's undoubtedly chicago.

[gronier]

Of course that in the poll I didn't put Chicago, it would not be fair.

I'm talking proportionally to the city size of course.

[DMRyan]

I don't know. I would say Indy, Des Moines and Lincoln with Omaha and Columbus not far behind.

Yes, I voted for my home city.

[Badgers77]

Madison is booming... not sure why it's not a choice.

[Neph]

Madison is booming... not sure why it's not a choice.
I would've voted for Mad City if it were on the list but since it isn't I voted for Milwaukee. Actually I think Milwaukee and the Twin Cities are in a tie. The tie breaker for me is that I'm from Wisconsin and I know Milwaukee alot more than I do the Cities.

[DTO Luv]

Omaha.

Downtown

-Downtown has condos coming out left and right. New construction and rehabs.
-A $90 million Peforming arts center that will be the 2nd major performing hall Downtown.
-Population around 6,000. To be 10,000+ around 2010.
-Remodeling of the Gene Leahy Mall. Think Central Park (used to be called acutally) but Omaha's version. Very succesful park in DT setting. New $14 million skating rink.
-A 25 story condo/hotel in the works for the Old Market.
-The 7th most profitable arena in the world, the Qwest Center. Opened in 2003 will see a 2,000-2,500 seat expansion in 2006.
-Possible high rise (300+) waiting on city to pick a proposal.

City

-404,276 in 2003. 8,050 annexation and annual growth rate puts the city at 416,000 in 2005.
-City spending to enhance (not rehab, no ghetto fixes) older neighborhoods.
-Organized effort for increased attention to area retail buildings. Setting community design standards.
-Elevated expressway in western Omaha to unite western Omaha to the interstate is under construction.

Suburbs

-Continued push towards Lincoln.
-Inter city (Omaha Lincoln) developments in residential and interstate widening underway.
-Cabela's secured and amusement park in the works btwn the two cities.
-Suburban retail expanding with 900,000 sq ft shopping center in Sarpy county.

Omaha-Lincoln population (2003): 1,106,199. By 2010 it will be around 1.2 million

[Jasonhouse]

I think that this poll needs a "none" option.

[Azn_chi_boi]

I was going to say Madison too, but I guess Millwuakee will do.

[twincities03]

Outside of Chicago, Minneapolis is seeing the biggest boom. The current residential and cultural projects in the dowtown area alone beat out every other midwestern city. Throw in the rest of the Twin Cities development and the area is ahead of most southern metro areas. Jasonhouse obviously disagrees, but being he's the admin., only his opinion counts.

[wheelingman]

I also agree that Minneapolis is the fastest growing area outside of Chicago.

[SChristopher]

To classify any of these cities as being in a BOOM would be a vast exageration in my opinion.

[i_am_hydrogen]

You're right... boom might not be the appropriate term, SChristopher.

However, I'm going with Minneapolis on this one. It's cruising right now.

Edit: But regardless of which city is moving the fastest, it's great to see a lot of midwestern cities such as St. Louis and Milwaukee experiencing a resurgence.

[flatiron94]

What ever I have in my sig.

[Jason]

I'm biased. But seriously, I've never felt so overwelmed trying to track all of the projects going on in Madison. It's sick.

[ReddAlert]

yeah..thats true!^ Most people here dont even realize all the numerous developments going on in Madison. So many midrise...yet beautiful condos. Then there was that 570 foot megalith. Is that officially dead now Jason...or are they scaling it down?

[twincities03]

To classify any of these cities as being in a BOOM would be a vast exageration in my opinion.

LOL!! Someone from Louisville knows all about the boom towns.

Since 2004, 6,000 units have been annouced or completed in downtown Minneapolis, plus the cultural projecst. Other than Chicago, there isn't one city in the midwest that can compete. Again, most cities in the south can't compare.

[Jason]

yeah..thats true!^ Most people here dont even realize all the numerous developments going on in Madison. So many midrise...yet beautiful condos. Then there was that 570 foot megalith. Is that officially dead now Jason...or are they scaling it down?

Oh man, it was dead before it was even proposed. It breaks at least 3 laws, including one because it's in a flight path to the airport. However, it has opened some eyes and started some discussion as to where Madison is headed, which is exactly what Brink meant to do with his proposal (applaud Mr. Brink), but that's more for the Madison thread for specifics.

[edsg25]

Have you ever tried to drive down major and side streets in residential sections of Chicago and been stuck in incredible grid lock. Nothing moves, except for the pedestrians?

You don't know how well off you can be without the "boom"; quality of life can suffer. And does.

[SChristopher]

LOL!! Someone from Louisville knows all about the boom towns.

Since 2004, 6,000 units have been annouced or completed in downtown Minneapolis, plus the cultural projecst. Other than Chicago, there isn't one city in the midwest that can compete. Again, most cities in the south can't compare.

I am not FROM Louisville mister defensive, I am merely here right now, I move all over. To clear things up for you I am FROM Los Angeles, and in terms of a boom it sits on your city's face. Anywho I find yours to be a great city just not in a BOOM compared to others that rightfully are. Many of these are simply recovering.

[SChristopher]

You don't know how well off you can be without the "boom"; quality of life can suffer. And does.

I agree, more is not better.

[ThePreacher]

Well let's settle this the easy way. How many units are proposed for your city? How much downtown construction is going on right now? How many towers are approved? I'm sorry whoever said Omaha, but there are multiple cities that are going through much larger booms, same for whoever said Des Moines. Relative to size I'm sure it is impressive, but it can't really compare to the kind of construction and redevelopment you see in cities like St. Louis

[Toggie]

Good idea

Minneapolis

Name-floor count-status-anticipated completion-notes

New Construction over 15 stories
The Nicollet 56 stories (50 occupied) Approved 2007 (sales start this month)
Nicollet Place 42 stories Future Development (opus's next project, very tentative plans)
The Carlyle 39 stories Under Construction 2006
Eclipse 2 32 stories Proposed 2008
1010 Park Avenue 1 32 stories Proposed 2008
Pillsbury 'A' Mill 1 27 stories Proposed 2012 (project completion)
Skyscape 26 stories Approved 2007 (spring 2005 groundbreaking)
Eclipse 1 26 stories Proposed 2007
Ivy Tower 24 stories Approved 2006 (June 1st Groundbreaking)
Pillsbury 'A' Mill 2 24 stories Proposed 2012 (project completion)
1010 Park Avenue 2 22 stories Proposed 2008
Fifth Avenue Gateway 20 stories Approved 2006 (moving VERY slowly, may be stale)
Pillsbury 'A' Mill 3 20 stories Proposed 2012 (project completion)
Phoenix Lofts 16 stories Approved
1010 Park Avenue 3 16 stories Proposed 2008
Pillsbury 'A' Mill 4 15 stories Proposed 2012 (project completion)

[Badgers77]

Is a bunch of condos going up really a boom? If so, than Vancouver is the most insane city in the world- but it's economy is actually pretty weak compared to many other cities the similar size.

[Steely Dan]

Have you ever tried to drive down major and side streets in residential sections of Chicago and been stuck in incredible grid lock. Nothing moves, except for the pedestrians?

You don't know how well off you can be without the "boom"; quality of life can suffer. And does.

quality of life for suburban minded people might suffer, but that fact that chicago is reaching auto gridlock in certain neighborhoods is a GIGANTIC positive. the more it becomes a pain-in-the-ass to drive, the more pedestrian oriented our city will become. all the best cities in the world suck for driving - NYC, London, SF, tokyo, etc.

but by all means edsg, if this chicago boom is cramping your automobile style, you could always move to a place like detroit, where the car is still 100% in control.



as for this question of booming cities, let me just put things into perspective here. since 1999, when chicago's current building boom began, there have been 92 buildings 12 stories or taller completed, with a further 28 currently under construction, for a total of 120. this is more 12 story or taller buildings than currently exists in any midwest city except minneapolis and detroit.

yeah, chicago is going through a sick building boom right now. and contrary to what suburbanites like edsg might say, the boom is fucking wonderful!

[City of Lakes]

Is a bunch of condos going up really a boom? If so, than Vancouver is the most insane city in the world- but it's economy is actually pretty weak compared to many other cities the similar size.

Wow. You know very little about Minneapolis and the rest of the Twin Cities area. Not only are thousands of units being built, but there are plenty of cultural projects currently under construction. The new light rail extends from downtown Minneapolis, to the MSP International airport, and on to the MOA. Our economy continues to do better than most metros. In other words, we're booming in several ways.

New Guthrie Theater
The new Guthrie will include three theaters:
-a 1,100-seat thrust stage,
-a 700-seat proscenium stage for contemporary drama
-a flexible, 250-seat studio theater for new work and artist development.
The expansion is expected to increase the number of annual Guthrie presentations and productions from 45 to 129 and the number of annual performances from 368 to 694. The new complex will employ about 1,000 people and is expected to attract over 500,000 people a year.

http://www.guthrietheater.org/act_ii/art/architect/northeast_night.jpg

http://www.startribune.com/stonline/images/news97/1gutvar090903.l.jpg

http://www.startribune.com/stonline/images/news28/5gutvar090903.l.jpg

Children's Theatre Expansion
Became the first theater for youth to receive the Tony Award as the country's outstanding regional theater in June.
http://www.childrenstheatre.org/images/capital/ctc_outsideviewfromSE.jpg

http://www.childrenstheatre.org/images/capital/ctc_outsideviewfromNE.jpg

http://www.childrenstheatre.org/images/capital/ctc_interior2ndstagewindows.jpg

Walker Art Museum Expansion
-100,000sq. foot expansion

The project will vastly expand the Walker’s galleries, re-orient the entrance, and create an innovative, 350-seat multidisciplinary performance studio capable of meeting the needs of the numerous avant garde performers regularly presented by the Walker. In addition to the four-acre park, key outdoor elements include a plaza along hennepin avenue and rooftop terraces with spectacular urban and park views.

http://expansion.walkerart.org/images/pic_green_space.jpg

http://expansion.walkerart.org/images/slide_dusk.jpg

http://expansion.walkerart.org/images/slide_restaurant.jpg

http://expansion.walkerart.org/images/slide_events.jpg

http://expansion.walkerart.org/images/slide_entrance.jpg

http://expansion.walkerart.org/images/slide_v_lounge.jpg

Minneapolis Institute of the Arts Expansion
-Michael Graves’ design will add an additional 117,000 square feet and has three stories above ground and a full basement.

-The ground floor contains public study rooms for the library, print, drawings and photography collections, a seminar room and a small gallery all organized around a central atrium space. The northern portion of the ground floor reorganizes some of the back-of-house and loading dock functions for more efficiency.

-The second and third floors are devoted to galleries with the inclusion of a splendid new reception hall.

*A record of over 560,000 visitors came to the museum in the last fiscal year.
*12,000 visitors set a record for the largest single-day attendance of any American museum outside New York City.

http://www.artsmia.org/building-expansion/images/target-park.jpg

http://www.artsmia.org/building-expansion/images/elevation-24th.jpg

http://www.artsmia.org/building-expansion/images/elevation-stevens.jpg

Central Library
new central library currently under construction
http://mplib.org/images/nicwatersm.jpg

http://mplib.org/images/ncl_4henn_small.jpg

[The anti-cheesehead]

Wow. You know very little about Minneapolis and the rest of the Twin Cities area.

It's so obvious from his posts that he is extra jealous of the Twin Cities.

[twincities03]

I am not FROM Louisville mister defensive, I am merely here right now, I move all over. To clear things up for you I am FROM Los Angeles, and in terms of a boom it sits on your city's face. Anywho I find yours to be a great city just not in a BOOM compared to others that rightfully are. Many of these are simply recovering.

LOL! I would hope Los Angeles is experiencing more of a boom than the Minneapolis area. So, other than areas like New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Miami, Atlanta, Las Vegas and Phoenix, Minneapolis is doing exceptionally well, especially compared to those cities listed above.

[Toggie]

Is a bunch of condos going up really a boom? If so, than Vancouver is the most insane city in the world- but it's economy is actually pretty weak compared to many other cities the similar size.
I was responding to a post asking about condo construction, at least that's the impression I got.

and BTW Vancouver isn't in the Midwest ;)

[SChristopher]

Yeah, if I had to pick one from the above list it would definately be Minneapolis ;)

[Toggie]

I believe that was the point of this thread, this being the Midwest section.

[Jaybird]

I first guess would probably be Minneapolis since it seems to have a lot going for it, including a possible light rail setup and those projects already having been mentioned for Minneapolis. But the metro area of Minneapolis I guess counts as well.

However, in a different side note, Columbus, Ohio is the only city in the midwest that is slowly gaining population, though...

[Jaybird]

On another sidenote why are there two "Detroit" options on this poll? LOL!

Detroit is booming, although not as much as Minneapolis.

[SChristopher]

I believe that was the point of this thread, this being the Midwest section.

Yeah my original was none of them... never did I mention anything out of the midwest. So I said out of those the MOST booming would be Minneapolis ... but I still stand by the fact that compared with what a BOOM is that none of them are BOOMING, but striving.

[The anti-cheesehead]

I first guess would probably be Minneapolis since it seems to have a lot going for it, including a possible light rail setup

Light rail has already started in Minneapolis. There's one line going right now with a few more on the way.

[ReddAlert]

It's so obvious from his posts that he is extra jealous of the Twin Cities.

everyone is jealous of Minneapolis man!

[qwerty1324]

quality of life for suburban minded people might suffer, but that fact that chicago is reaching auto gridlock in certain neighborhoods is a GIGANTIC positive. the more it becomes a pain-in-the-ass to drive, the more pedestrian oriented our city will become. all the best cities in the world suck for driving - NYC, London, SF, tokyo, etc.

but by all means edsg, if this chicago boom is cramping your automobile style, you could always move to a place like detroit, where the car is still 100% in control.



as for this question of booming cities, let me just put things into perspective here. since 1999, when chicago's current building boom began, there have been 92 buildings 12 stories or taller completed, with a further 28 currently under construction, for a total of 120. this is more 12 story or taller buildings than currently exists in any midwest city except minneapolis and detroit.

yeah, chicago is going through a sick building boom right now. and contrary to what suburbanites like edsg might say, the boom is fucking wonderful!
What is especially nice about that 120 buildings 12 stories or higher that have either been completed or under construction in the city of Chicago only is that something like 99% of them are in downtown and not spread out all over the place.

[Neph]

LOL!! Someone from Louisville knows all about the boom towns.

Since 2004, 6,000 units have been annouced or completed in downtown Minneapolis, plus the cultural projecst. Other than Chicago, there isn't one city in the midwest that can compete. Again, most cities in the south can't compare.
Units being announced don't mean crap. Units being built or have recently been built is how I gage, anyway.

But I will change my vote from Milwaukee to Minny, that is, if I could.

[Badgers77]

Sure, I'm jealous in the fact that I wish Milwaukee was performing like the Twin Cities, but I'm not being sour grapes-ish. I wouldn't want to live there, but I am jealous that it is performing so much better than seemingly regressive Milwaukee. Madison helps trump my jealousy, and I think relative to size, Madison is probably the most booming town in the midwest (although Minneapolis could be. Chicago is doing amazing, but it's hard to consider it as booming, even though its no doubt far and away the largest in the midwest.)

If you would read all of my posts, though, you'd realize that I have had tons of great things to say about St. Paul and Minneapolis.

I consider my criticism of the twin cities, or other things related to the twin cities, as more objective and less of a shot of sour grapes. You guys are just really on edge. In my opinion, in terms of boomingness, Milwaukee is worse off than Detroit.

I spent years of my life in Maple Grove, so I do know "about Minneapolis" although it was like 16 years ago and I've been back only a few times since.

It's not so much that I'm jealous of Minneapolis though... it's more that it irritates me Milwaukee is doing so ****ily and Minnesotans treat Wisconsinites like primal, provincial hicks (I guess Madisonians often treat Milwaukeeans like that though).

--

Upon second though, I think most of my hate of the Twin Cities stems from my hate of the Vikings. Strange thing though, as I root for the Twins.

[The anti-cheesehead]

everyone is jealous of Minneapolis man!

I'm not saying that. I'm sure there are plenty of people who aren't jealous of Minneapolis. For the midwest, it's pretty nice, but I doubt too many people in San Diego wish they lived here. I don't plan on being here forever, I know that for sure.

It just seems like Badgers77 really is jealous and really is being "sour grapes-ish" although he says he's not.

[Badgers77]

I'd consider spending my "adult life" (once I graduate college or whatever happens after that) in Minneapolis if it wasn't for winter. I just plain hate the cold. Don't plan on staying in the midwest.

[EastSider]

Sure, I'm jealous in the fact that I wish Milwaukee was performing like the Twin Cities, but I'm not being sour grapes-ish. I wouldn't want to live there, but I am jealous that it is performing so much better than seemingly regressive Milwaukee. Madison helps trump my jealousy, and I think relative to size, Madison is probably the most booming town in the midwest (although Minneapolis could be. Chicago is doing amazing, but it's hard to consider it as booming, even though its no doubt far and away the largest in the midwest.)

If you would read all of my posts, though, you'd realize that I have had tons of great things to say about St. Paul and Minneapolis.

I consider my criticism of the twin cities, or other things related to the twin cities, as more objective and less of a shot of sour grapes. You guys are just really on edge. In my opinion, in terms of boomingness, Milwaukee is worse off than Detroit.

I spent years of my life in Maple Grove, so I do know "about Minneapolis" although it was like 16 years ago and I've been back only a few times since.

It's not so much that I'm jealous of Minneapolis though... it's more that it irritates me Milwaukee is doing so ****ily and Minnesotans treat Wisconsinites like primal, provincial hicks (I guess Madisonians often treat Milwaukeeans like that though).

--
Upon second though, I think most of my hate of the Twin Cities stems from my hate of the Vikings. Strange thing though, as I root for the Twins.

A. I do want to change my vote to Minneapolis, because I think they are currently experiencing the biggest boom.

B. Badgers77 you have to be an idiot to compare the "boomingness" of Milwaukee and Detroit, especially when you make it completely known that you know nothing about both cities. I know you're from Madison, and I understand that you think it's a great city (I think so too, I grew up there), but you are so naive to what is going on in Milwaukee. Educate yourself man:)

[Badgers77]

I've lived in 3 cities in Wisconsin, and 1 city in Minnesota in my life.

They are:

1 - Maple Grove, MN
2 - Appleton, WI
3 - Mequon, WI
4 - Madison, WI

I admit I don't know a ton about Milwaukee, though.

[edsg25]

quality of life for suburban minded people might suffer, but that fact that chicago is reaching auto gridlock in certain neighborhoods is a GIGANTIC positive. the more it becomes a pain-in-the-ass to drive, the more pedestrian oriented our city will become. all the best cities in the world suck for driving - NYC, London, SF, tokyo, etc.

but by all means edsg, if this chicago boom is cramping your automobile style, you could always move to a place like detroit, where the car is still 100% in control.



as for this question of booming cities, let me just put things into perspective here. since 1999, when chicago's current building boom began, there have been 92 buildings 12 stories or taller completed, with a further 28 currently under construction, for a total of 120. this is more 12 story or taller buildings than currently exists in any midwest city except minneapolis and detroit.

yeah, chicago is going through a sick building boom right now. and contrary to what suburbanites like edsg might say, the boom is fucking wonderful!

rather condescending, sharptent. you have no idea if I'm city or suburban oriented just because I live in the suburbs. I know that I've always been more oriented to the city, despite where I live and spend a helluva lot of time in Chicago.

The Chicago boom has wonderful aspects to it. But the city is less accessible because of it. And I'm using my city experiences down through many, many years to arrive at that conclusion. For anyone who tries to drive through an intersection like North and Clybourn on a Saturday realize that the Chicago boom has a downside. And the majority of those drivers are Chicagoans.

The city can't have its cake and eat it, too. You talk of city/suburban. You fail to mention the degree of suburban mentality that drives residential construction on the North Side. How many of the new townhouses that have gone up and are going up have two car garages, a suburban concept, and one that in the city says you may have a place to park your car at home, but on the street or finding a parking space, maybe no room at the inn.

Sharptent, I don't give a fuck if you disagree with me or not; that's your business. But don't presume you know my perspective from my zip code. you don't

[Steely Dan]

^ the fact that you think that auto-gridlock is a bad thing means that i can only see you as a suburban-oriented person. city people walk, suburban people drive, that's the crucial difference. the more that the north side's streets become ever more choked with traffic, the more that people will be forced into walking, thus transforming suburban-oriented people into city-oriented people. you seemed to be lamenting this fact, thus i lumped you in as a suburban-oriented person. chicago needs more traffic congestion, not less. chicago needs to become less accessible by car, not more. any city-oriented person can see this. the great cities of the world DON'T cater to cars, they cater to people. i'd like to think that chicago would want to follow the lead of the great cities of the world, thus i welcome this ever-increasing level of difficulty of automobile access within the city of chicago.

[luv2bebrown]

i wish minneapolis would build some decent ethnic restaurants instead of condos

[EastSider]

I've lived in 3 cities in Wisconsin, and 1 city in Minnesota in my life.

They are:

1 - Maple Grove, MN
2 - Appleton, WI
3 - Mequon, WI
4 - Madison, WI

I admit I don't know a ton about Milwaukee, though.

That's awesome, but I don't understand you're point. :)

[Minneapolitan]

^ the fact that you think that auto-gridlock is a bad thing means that i can only see you as a suburban-oriented person. city people walk, suburban people drive, that's the crucial difference. the more that the north side's streets become ever more choked with traffic, the more that people will be forced into walking, thus transforming suburban-oriented people into city-oriented people. you seemed to be lamenting this fact, thus i lumped you in as a suburban-oriented person. chicago needs more traffic congestion, not less. chicago needs to become less accessible by car, not more. any city-oriented person can see this. the great cities of the world DON'T cater to cars, they cater to people. i'd like to think that chicago would want to follow the lead of the great cities of the world, thus i welcome this ever-increasing level of difficulty of automobile access within the city of chicago.

De acuerdo. :D

[Minneapolitan]

i wish minneapolis would build some decent ethnic restaurants instead of condos

First, we have lots of great restaurants. Sure, we could use more, and what city couldnt??? Second, we need more people (which obviously, we are working like crazy to achieve) to demand more restaurants. Minneapolis is going to evolve immensely in the next 5- 10 years; from great to greater!

[luv2bebrown]

minneapolis has got some amazin restaurants. thats for sure. but we need good ethnic restaurants. there are only a couple of authentic ethnic restaurants. the others are just "authentic"

[edsg25]

^ the fact that you think that auto-gridlock is a bad thing means that i can only see you as a suburban-oriented person. city people walk, suburban people drive, that's the crucial difference. the more that the north side's streets become ever more choked with traffic, the more that people will be forced into walking, thus transforming suburban-oriented people into city-oriented people. you seemed to be lamenting this fact, thus i lumped you in as a suburban-oriented person. chicago needs more traffic congestion, not less. chicago needs to become less accessible by car, not more. any city-oriented person can see this. the great cities of the world DON'T cater to cars, they cater to people. i'd like to think that chicago would want to follow the lead of the great cities of the world, thus i welcome this ever-increasing level of difficulty of automobile access within the city of chicago.

That's BS. It is not my orientation that is in question. Or, for that matter, suburbia's orientation. It is what those
in Chicago are doing to Chicago. There is a huge percent of people moving into Chicago's trendiest neighborhoods that want to pick and choose the parts of city living they like, and discard the rest.

That's what I was trying to get across when I mentioned town houses and garages. Two car garages are to serve people who a generation earlier might have opted to live on the North Shore over the city. But since the city is "hot", they want to be there: with two cars in their garage and no damned place to put them on the street or to park them. And shopping areas like North and Clybourn are designed for people to get to with their car. How many shoppers are taking the bus or the red line to C&B? Not many.

It's not the subrbanites in the suburbs who are making Chicago more and more suburban, but people living and redeveloping the city who are.

[Steely Dan]

^ well, i'm not quite sure what you're talking about anymore.

my point: traffic congestion on chicago's streets is a good thing. as traffic congestion worsens and car accessibility in the city decreases, a greater proportion of the population will consider alternate modes of tranportation, and more importantly, bring greater political pressure to increase and improve alternative transportation options.

do you agree with this or not?

[JivecitySTL]

Honorable mention to the great City of Saint Louis. This is from today's Post-Dispatch:

City real estate tax assessments are up on average by 34 percent
By Jake Wagman
Of the Post-Dispatch
04/10/2005

The price of progress is in the mail for city homeowners

New real estate tax assessments, sent out Friday, show residential property values in St. Louis increased by an average of 34 percent. The new assessments, issued every other year, are in line with a real estate boom in some parts of the city, with the market price of homes going up by as much as half in just a few years.

What impact the assessments will have on tax bills is unclear. The city's new tax rate will not be decided until the fall. Plus, state law limits the amount of revenue the city - and other taxing districts that show up on your bill - can earn from revised assessments.

The result is that many city homeowners will pay more taxes this year, but the increase will not be nearly as sharp as the jump in assessments.

"No tax bill will go up as much as the assessment," St. Louis Assessor Ed Bushmeyer said.

Bushmeyer said some homeowners with modest increases in property value actually will pay less in real estate taxes.

It should come as no surprise what areas anchored the city's rise in property values. Booming sections of the city, such as Dogtown and Lafayette Square, went up the most, along with stable areas such as the Hill and Central West End.

For instance, a home in the 2300 block of Park Avenue in Lafayette Square that was appraised at $127,105 two years ago is now valued at $184,578. In the Skinker-DeBaliviere section, the value of already tony addresses near Forest Park have increased by up to 70 percent.

As a whole, in the city's central corridor, between Martin Luther King Drive and Arsenal Street, property values went up by 44 percent. North of King Drive, property values increased only 13 percent, while south of Arsenal saw a 33 percent increase.

Increased property values are significant steps for St. Louis, Bushmeyer said, a city that has been long touting its own comeback.

"It's not that many years ago we saw some neighborhoods dropping in value," Bushmeyer said.

Link to article (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/9C2756421FD931D086256FE0001E02DD?OpenDocument)

If St. Louis isn't a comeback city, I don't know what is.

[denvernative1982]

Yeah, Minneapolis has a decent unemployment and a good business base and is doing very well compared to alot of midwestern cities, I will concede that. The economy (percentage growth) although not growing as fast of Des Moines is growing at a good clip.

I have a feeling that Minneapolis is at its peak now and that it will stabilize and be a consistant medium-growth city from here. I just dont think Minneapolis has the creativity of alot of other cities, people have priced out of the market.

Pretty much, Minneapolis I dont think will be gaining fortune 500 companies, they will stay around 20 which is the 3rd highest per-capita in the nation. The creative base just isnt there and office space and labor costs are very high.

St. Louis and Columbus has a big edge on location. I really think that Columbus and St. Louis although not growing fast percentage wise will really start to rebound. The cost of leasing space is very, very low in these two cities, labor costs are about average and they have massive tax abatement programs.

[denvernative1982]

First, we have lots of great restaurants. Sure, we could use more, and what city couldnt??? Second, we need more people (which obviously, we are working like crazy to achieve) to demand more restaurants. Minneapolis is going to evolve immensely in the next 5- 10 years; from great to greater!

Minneapolis has a good economy but lets face it the restaurants are terrible and expensive. "Eat Street" especially fits this statement.

Minneapolis is lacking in every area of the restaurant field (except for somali owned establishments) and the prices in my opinion are criminal. The same meal that costs 5 dollars in Denver or Columbus will set you back 10 dollars in Minneapolis.

Minneapolis is a prosperous city, Hennepin County is about 30% above national per capita median income yet the quality of the retail is very low and this includes eating out.

[Jasonhouse]

^ well, i'm not quite sure what you're talking about anymore.

my point: traffic congestion on chicago's streets is a good thing. as traffic congestion worsens and car accessibility in the city decreases, a greater proportion of the population will consider alternate modes of tranportation, and more importantly, bring greater political pressure to increase and improve alternative transportation options.

do you agree with this or not?

I do! I do!

[Bond James Bond]

Some news about the Twin Cities . . .

http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/5337976.html

Capital expansion: Companies are spending more today than in the past
Mike Meyers, Star Tribune National Economics Correspondent
April 10, 2005

Park Industries Inc. is no household name, but the St. Cloud company makes machinery used to manufacture products that end up in many households -- fabricated stone used in kitchen countertops, home shingles and landscaping.

To keep pace with robust demand, Park has embarked on a seven-figure capital improvement campaign this year, expanding its factory and adding machine tools and other production equipment.

"Our orders are up from a year ago -- substantially," said Thomas Schlough, Park's president. "That's why we have to expand, to meet increasing opportunity."

He's got company.

Big-ticket spending by business, which accelerated in 2004 at an 11 percent rate after adjusting for inflation, is continuing to build momentum.

Fueled by an upswing in profits and, in the case of manufacturing, brighter prospects for exports, corporate spending has been rising at a double-digit pace nationwide and perhaps even more briskly in Minnesota. It's unclear whether the trend will continue despite climbing interest rates and oil prices, but there's no mistaking the signs that companies are more willing to spend now than they've been in years.

Last year, 231 Minnesota companies spent $1.9 billion expanding facilities and buying new equipment. The year before, the comparable figure was $600 million, according to the state Department of Employment and Economic Development.

"I honestly believe we're on the cusp of a serious, significant business expansion cycle," said Matt Kramer, commissioner of the department. "I think we're going to blow past last year."

In northern Minnesota, where capital spending has been muted for many years, paper, mining and ethanol manufacturers have announced plans to spend billions on new factories and equipment.

"Every one of those projects mean more rail cars, more construction, more jobs," Kramer said.

The rebound is being seen across industries as well as regions.

"Since January 2005, almost every company we do business with is making investments in technology again," said Clint Sawinski, a partner in Cornerstone Consulting, a Minneapolis-based firm that advises companies on software and computer spending.

Cornerstone has 30 percent more business today than last spring, he said. Clients are buying new computer systems, tying together existing computers to work better in networks and building "data warehouses" that allow them to sell goods and services and learn more about the habits of buyers.

OTC Executive Search, a Minneapolis-based head-hunting firm in the information technologies industry, has found that many Minnesota companies are picking up their spending on people as well as equipment.

"The consensus is that things are healthier and more vibrant than any time in the last four years," said Isaac Cheifetz, president of OTC Executive Search.

A national survey earlier this year found that half of the executives polled planned to increase spending on information technology, by an average of 22 percent, according to Siemens Financial Services, which talked to chief executives and other decision-makers at 118 companies. More than half of that spending will be on computer software and hardware, with lesser amounts going to office equipment and telecommunications gear, Siemens found.

"I think this is very indicative that it's going to be a good 2005," said Bill Zadrozny, Siemens president and chief executive.

Appetites for capital spending appear to be growing beyond IT, as well.

"What's happening right now is that the capital spending pattern has broadened," said Haseed Ahmed, senior economist at the website Economy.com.

Minnesota Wire & Cable Co., based in St. Paul, last year spent $850,000 on new equipment. Part of that spending was due to the company chasing a special tax break for capital spending that expired at the end of 2004. This year, the company expects to nearly match that investment, even without the tax incentive, after seeing productivity rise through investment in more modern production equipment, said Paul Wagner, president and chief executive.

"I've seen the light," Wagner said. "The efficiencies are so great, I know I'll do another $750,000."

Minnesota Wire & Cable has expanded beyond its core business -- making components used in medical equipment -- to military contracting, a move that has justified much of the capital spending. "Business is very, very good," Wagner said. "We came off the best year in the company's history last year."

Others report big gains in orders, which have prompted them to spend on the nuts and bolts of production to keep up.

Orders are up 40 percent from this time last year at Productivity Inc., one of the state's largest machine-tool distributors. Machine tools fashion all manner of parts, from the tiniest screw to the mammoth components of electrical power generators.

"Things have done an about-face," said Greg Buck, president of Productivity, based in Plymouth. "We're at about the point where we were in the 1990s, and we think most of our customers are, as well."

Some customers are surprised to learn that machine tools, costing tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars, now can take months to arrive in the face of steady demand. A year ago, many such tools were readily available, he said.

Business spending contributes only one-fourth as much money to the economy as consumers' spending, so it typically gets less attention from economy watchers. But it's of more importance than usual now, as economic forecasters wonder how much further consumers can afford to go into debt to keep up their spending habits. In contrast to many household balance sheets, Corporate America has paid down debt in the past few years and is in better shape to borrow and spend.

"The wallets are open, said Nariman Behravesh, chief economist at Global Insight, a Boston-based economic forecasting firm. "Most U.S. companies are sitting on a mountain of cash."

Resurgent profits give companies two fundamental alternatives: either return retained profits to shareholders in the form of higher dividends or spend the money on productive assets, including factories and equipment. Behravesh thinks more companies than in recent years will decide they can make money from expanding.

"I think what it means is that certainly this year and next year, capital spending will be fairly robust," Behravesh said. "It will remain an engine of economic growth."

But later this year, capital spending may hit headwinds from higher interest rates, raising worries about the cost of borrowing for big projects and the tempo of business orders, said Dan Laufenberg, chief economist at American Express Financial Advisors. However, he sees nothing worse than a modest slowing of business spending, not a serious pullback.

"We think spending still has momentum to put out some solid numbers in the early parts of the year," he said.

Laufenberg expects an 8.7 percent gain in capital spending in 2005, comparing the fourth quarter of this year with the same period in 2004.

"It's going to be going up, but at a somewhat slower pace than last year," he said.

[edsg25]

^ well, i'm not quite sure what you're talking about anymore.

my point: traffic congestion on chicago's streets is a good thing. as traffic congestion worsens and car accessibility in the city decreases, a greater proportion of the population will consider alternate modes of tranportation, and more importantly, bring greater political pressure to increase and improve alternative transportation options.

do you agree with this or not?

interesting point. i have my reservations. my impression is that the growth in residential construction since gentrification first started to grow is a whole new type of phenomeninum: it has occurred as the concept of suburbia has matured and it has been generated by people with a strong suburban background and want to incorporate numerous aspects of suburbia into a new Chicago.

Do I agree with you that dependence on cars should be lessened in the city and public transporation fostered? Certainly. But I think a lot of the people that are fueling the growth with feel damned uncomfortable in Chicago if driving their cars frequently was not an option.

Manhattan may be the only place in the country that life without a car works well for so many people. A lot of folks attribute this to density in Manhattan. I suspect something different: the long, linear layout of Manhattan is a unique environment that encourages a form of reliance on public transportation that no other georgraphy supports. If in NY, the city had developed anywhere but in Manhattan (Brooklyn, for example, or the Jersey shore), the type of density you see in Manhattan woldn't have been replicated. Manhattan is a place where having a minimal of subway lines running north-south for the length of the island, plus a few crossover lines services the needs of so many people. Without that type of geography, you wouldn't see the same thing.

[Steely Dan]

^ but you said that the decrease in automobile accessibilty is a negative aspect of the current boom. i was simply disagreeing with you because i am of the opinion that cities should make it as difficult to accomodate cars as possible. i realize that most new residential development does allocate parking spots for all the new residents, but we're still dealing with the same limited streets in a lot of hoods, so driving is just going to become more and more of a pain-in-the-ass as we move towards the future. i think this is a wonderful thing, yet you lament it. i don't understand why you feel there should be easy car accessibility in the city, but i guess it's just one of those fundemental things that we're never gonna see eye to eye on.

and because the increasing traffic congestion in the city makes me happy, i'll live with that and leave this discussion at its end.

[VanillaVille]

The first problem with this poll is that Minneapolis/St.Paul is included on it. Minneapolis/St.Paul is the "boomtown" in the midwest. This should be "which city in the midwest is having the second biggest boom?". Kind of like the threads like "which city in the midwest, outside of Chicago, is the most urban?", "which city in the midwest, outside of Chicago, is the most diverse?", and so on. Minneapolis should have 68 votes right now.

The other problem here is the rampant hometown pride distorting people's votes. Milwaukee with a whopping 15 votes, while Indianapolis has only 9, Columbus has only 2, and Kansas City has only 1? Riiiiiight.

[Badgers77]

Madison is booming just has hard as Minneapolis... relative to it's size. Obviously, Minneapolis is booming many times more overall. Madison was listed to be one of the top 10 areas in the US for Biotech though, and Minneapolis wasn't, so I guess Madison is booming harder there. Minneapolis is booming much, much harder overall though. Condos, overall economy, etc... even if Madison's economy is booming just as hard relative to the fact it's about 1/6th as big.

[mpls]

so...madison is booming more than minneapolis but minneapolis is booming more than madison.

really - why did you post that?

[Badgers77]

I think most people here will understand what I'm saying, so I won't bother explaining it to you.

[twincities03]

Madison is booming just has hard as Minneapolis... relative to it's size. Obviously, Minneapolis is booming many times more overall. Madison was listed to be one of the top 10 areas in the US for Biotech though, and Minneapolis wasn't, so I guess Madison is booming harder there. Minneapolis is booming much, much harder overall though. Condos, overall economy, etc... even if Madison's economy is booming just as hard relative to the fact it's about 1/6th as big.

LOL! Where did you read that? I highly doubt Madison is ahead of Minneapolis in the Biotech industry considering the following companies are either headquartered here or have a large presence in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area:

Agricultural and Industrial Biotech. Companies
Cargill
Cenex Harvest States
Ecolab
Land O'Lakes Agricultural Services
H.B. Fuller

Med. Tech.
Medtronic Inc.
Boston Scientific
3M
Guidant Corp.
St. Jude Medical Inc.
Starkey Laboratories

Pharmaceutical Manufacturers
3M Pharmaceuticals
Biopolymer Engineering
Solvay Pharmaceuticals
Upsher-Smith Laboratories
CIMA Labs

Microbiology Companies
Techne Corp.
Protein Design Labs
Medtox Scientific
Viromed Laboratories
Apptec Laboratory Services

There are plenty more, but I think you get the picture.

[SChristopher]

Honestly I dont understand people who are ANTI CAR lol. We have them they are a resource. The people I find that hate them are people who can afford them and as a almost always downtown dweller a car is a great thing to stock up on anything from food to furniture. Big wow if they pollute so does a densely populated urban area...get a grip ya bunch of granolas

[SChristopher]

It doesnt matter what companies are where for a boom, its where they are moving.....I will revisit the fact that the midwest is RECOVERING nothing is BOOMING it is RECOVERING.

[twincities03]

What lost industry is the Minneapolis-St. Paul area trying to recover?

[SChristopher]

No no read into it more..... I was saying a boom doesnt rely solely on what is possessed look at Cincinnati and all they have and they are huge crap waste.....I am saying with the decades of loss any BOOOM that took place in the midwest would be a recovery.

[samsonyuen]

I think in terms of population growth, Indy and Columbus are having the biggest numbers. In terms of infrastructure, it's Minneapolis?, though they're getting some downtown growth to, as I've read.

[twincities03]

I have a feeling that Minneapolis is at its peak now and that it will stabilize and be a consistant medium-growth city from here. I just dont think Minneapolis has the creativity of alot of other cities, people have priced out of the market.

Minneapolis is constantly ranked as one of the most "creative" cities in the country.

Pretty much, Minneapolis I dont think will be gaining fortune 500 companies, they will stay around 20 which is the 3rd highest per-capita in the nation. The creative base just isnt there and office space and labor costs are very high.

LOL! We will have two more on next year's Fortune 500 list. Mosaic and the new company that will be forming from the American Express-Financial Advisors break up.

[twincities03]

No no read into it more..... I was saying a boom doesnt rely solely on what is possessed look at Cincinnati and all they have and they are huge crap waste.....I am saying with the decades of loss any BOOOM that took place in the midwest would be a recovery.

^ Got ya. I must slow down and read these posts.

[Badgers77]

Here are some "stats" for the creative class.

Big Cities (1,000,000+)

Top 10:

1. San Francisco
2. Austin
3. San Diego
3. Boston
5. Seattle
6. Raleigh--Durham--Chapel Hill
7. Houston
8. Washington--Baltimore
9. New York
10. Dallas
10. Minneapolis

Bottom 10:

49. Memphis
48. Norfolk--Virginia Beach, VA
47. Las Vegas
46. Buffalo
45. Louisville
44. Grand Rapids, MI
43. Oklahoma City
42. New Orleans
41. Greensboro--Winston-Salem
40. Providence, RI


Smaller Cities

Top 10:

1. Madison, WI
2. Des Moines, IA
3. Santa Barbara, CA
4. Melbourne, FL
5. Boise City, ID
6. Huntsville, AL
7. Lansing--East Lansing, MI
8. Binghamton, NY
9. Lexington, KY
10. New London,CT--Norwich,RI

Bottom 10:

63. Shreveport, LA
62. Ocala, FL
61. Visalia, CA
60. Killeen, TX
59. Fayettevville, NC
58. York, PA
57. Fayetteville, AR
56. Beaumont, TX
55. Lakeland--Winter Haven, FL
54. Hickory, NC

[twincities03]

^ DenverNative thinks otherwise.

[SChristopher]

^ Got ya. I must slow down and read these posts.


LOL I didnt mean to be a dick, I love the midwest, its just when I think boom I think of cities that are EXPLOSIVE. When I think of the midwest I think of nominal metro growth. Minneapolis is a stable area seeing healthy growth not too fast not regressive, thats all.

[Badgers77]

Strange how all the bottom cities are either in the south or in the North but notoriously conservative (grand rapids)

[SChristopher]

HUH?
elaborate

[Badgers77]

LOL! Where did you read that? I highly doubt Madison is ahead of Minneapolis in the Biotech industry considering the following companies are either headquartered here or have a large presence in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area:


I'm searching for it. I'll find it eventually. Minneapolis is not among the top 12 "bio tech" metros with populations over a million, though.

While searching for it I came across this good article, but it's not what I was looking for.

http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2004/0524/120.html

It's old as hell. It's really kind of unfortunate that Madison is in Wisconsin. I'm reading about how it often has so much trouble funding just because the rest of the state is such a mess. (puts on flame-shield)

Found another tidbit, not about this though

Technologywise, Minnesota is ranked 11th in the nation, and Wisconsin is ranked a crappy 23rd. Luckily, Michigan makes Wisconsin look good.

[SChristopher]

Madison reminds me something of Lexington...it is small potatoes correct me if I am off base!

[Badgers77]

Okay, you're just mad because of that stat about Louisville and now you're just trying to get a rise out of me.

[i_am_hydrogen]

Madison is not small potatoes, SChristopher.

[SChristopher]

LOL for the last time I just LIVE in Louisville now...I know its a dying city speaking of old limits (its got shit going one but whatever)....I am from La I am transferring to Tampa in July...I am not one of those die hard defend my city types. I just wanted to know more about Madison, I hear so much about it being paradise. You live there so gimme some insight, I see it as Lexingtons twin....

[Badgers77]

He's just mad because Madison is thriving and Louisville is just a city full of check-cashing stores, liquor stores, and laundramats.

Just read about the cities. I don't know Lexington so I really can't make comparisons. Madison is just definitely not small potatoes.

[SChristopher]

How old are you, 10...LOL I just said could give a fuck if Louisville burns to the floor, I am not from here it is but a pit stop. I am just saying Madison looks like small potatoes a little town. I asked more about it and you insult me. BOOOOO. I still wanna know more though......

[Badgers77]

www.google.com

[SChristopher]

ON second look ... I havnt ever been to Madison, but by the looks of it is is a healthy city not a rediculously booming and thriving metropolis, and by where you said you have lived maybe you are the one who should evaluate everything. I am not trying to be a punk but you are being incredibly childish......I must say as a whole with Louisvilles cheating 385 sq mi it does quite well now though :)

[SChristopher]

www.google.com


www.sesamestreet.com

Ya Small town FUCK :)

[Badgers77]

I didn't say anything that isn't true. I wasn't being childish.

[SChristopher]

You said a bunch of insecure BS when I asked a legit question. So I rest my case that Madison in everything that I have seen IS Lexington.....thanks for playing

[Badgers77]

Um okay whatever

[The anti-cheesehead]

Minneapolis envisions citywide Wi-Fi
Steve Alexander, Star Tribune
April 12, 2005 WIFI0412


Minneapolis is about to become an unwired city, creating a universal wireless Internet access network available to every citizen, visitor, business and municipal facility within city limits.
On Wednesday, the city will unveil a request for a proposal for a privately owned, $15 million to $20 million citywide wireless and fiber-optic network. It is likely to use the Wi-Fi (wireless fidelity) technology that has created several hundred Internet access "hot spots" for laptop computer users in metro coffee shops, bookstores, airports and hotels.
A contract for the wireless and fiber network should be signed later this year, with initial service likely to begin 12 months later and citywide service six to 12 months after that, Minneapolis officials said.
The citywide wireless network is necessary to improve government communications by linking every city building, police car and housing inspector to the city's databases, city officials say.
But the network also would be available to every individual and business in the city.
Consumers would be able to buy broadband access of 1 million to 3 million bits per second for $18 to $24 a month -- a bit slower than wired cable modem service but about half the price. The network also is expected to create an economic incentive for businesses to locate in Minneapolis.
"If someone gets off a plane at the airport and signs up for Minneapolis Internet service, they can sign on with one password anywhere in the city," said Bill Beck, director for business development in the city of Minneapolis' computer operations. "Cities that have that will be in a much better position to attract new business opportunities and economic development. It will be the ante to get into the game in the next several years."
No tax money would be used for the Minneapolis wireless network, which would be paid for, built, owned and operated by the winning bidder on the city's proposal. That is a markedly different approach than in Philadelphia, where the city will own and operate a new Wi-Fi network.
Minneapolis officials decided not to build their own wireless network because of high construction and administrative costs, Beck said. In addition, city officials were concerned that cities offering high-speed Internet service have been accused by large telephone companies of competing with the private sector, he said.
Minneapolis officials envision putting Wi-Fi antennas atop Minneapolis city buildings, light poles and traffic signals and also using a high-capacity fiber-optic network to combine all the wireless signals for connection to the Internet. Fiber-optic connections also would be provided to business customers who need more capacity than wireless connections can provide.
As part of the network's start-up, the city hopes to incorporate into it all Internet hot spots already operated by private businesses such as coffee shops. Jim Farstad, a telecom consultant to the city, estimated there are 300 to 400 Internet hot spots operating in Minneapolis.
Wi-Fi hot spots often are about 300 feet in diameter, but they can be linked to create a citywide network, as they have been in the city of Chaska, which charges consumers $16 a month to use the service, called Chaska.net. In the city of 22,000 people, about 25 percent of the 7,500 households subscribe to Chaska.net, said Dave Pokorney, Chaska city manager.
Suburban pressure
Minneapolis wireless network project leaders said the inexpensive networks operating in suburban Chaska and Buffalo put pressure on Minneapolis leaders to do the same. In addition to the political pressures, the city also needed an improved network that could speed up data traffic in its 47 main buildings and extend high-speed access to 300 other buildings -- all at a savings, Beck said.
The city also wanted to replace expensive cellular radio communications used by police cars with a cheaper and faster wireless data network. There also was a desire to provide broadband to an estimated 10 to 15 percent of the city's population that either isn't served by high-speed Internet access or can't afford it.
"Our goal is a common, ubiquitous network infrastructure that is seamless and provides a common communications backbone for all the needs of the city," Beck said.
City officials think that no single company can build the whole network and that bids are likely to come from consortiums consisting of a prime contractor and several subcontractors. The city has had talks with 26 potential bidders, including Qwest, Minnesota's largest phone company; equipment suppliers Siemens and Alcatel, "and some new players," Beck said.
Cable TV company Time Warner expressed interest in the project, but Qwest was noncommital.
"We need to look at the city's request for proposal, but we're interested in seeing how our resources meet their needs," Time Warner spokesman Lance Leupold said.
"We cannot offer any comment until we have read and reviewed the request for proposal," Qwest spokeswoman Cyndi Barrington said.
Other bidders
Other local firms considering bidding are those that already offer more expensive wireless Internet services to Twin Cities businesses. StoneBridge Wireless Broadband of Eden Prairie and Implex.net Inc. of Minneapolis offer WiMax, a next-generation wireless Internet access technology that travels several miles instead of Wi-Fi's 300 feet but requires costly receiving equipment that consumers usually can't afford.
Tim Johnson, StoneBridge director of strategic alliances, said his firm might bid on some aspects of the proposed network, probably as a subcontractor, but isn't sure the project is practical.
"There is a place for Wi-Fi hot spots. But the cost-effectiveness of a border-to-border Minneapolis city Wi-Fi network is in question," Johnson said.
Stuart DeVaan, CEO of Implex.net, said his firm is testing a Wi-Fi network that would serve businesses and consumers along Nicollet Mall for $39 a month. His firm will bid on the Minneapolis network using a "meshing technology" that allows Wi-Fi hot spots to exchange data with each other, effectively expanding their range.
"Using antennas on light posts and power poles, we can in theory cover every square inch of Minneapolis with Wi-Fi," DeVaan said.

[mpls]

I think most people here will understand what I'm saying, so I won't bother explaining it to you.

no - didn't you ever learn not to compare apples and oranges?

[Badgers77]

It's strange that it would cost 15-20 million for Minneapolis, as it only cost 10 million for Philadelphia.

[EastSider]

Madison reminds me something of Lexington...it is small potatoes correct me if I am off base!

Madison isn't small potatoes. Think medium-size cosmopolitan city meets an ultra-liberal college town. There are a lot of opinions of Madison out there however, mine is just one of them. I did live there for almost two decades, until I moved to Milwaukee two years ago.

[EastSider]

On another note, Madison and Mineapolis are incomparable. Not only because of their size, but pure influence. Minneapolis is in an entirely different playing field than Madison. Madison isn't bad, just different, and on a smaller scale.

[mpls]

It's strange that it would cost 15-20 million for Minneapolis, as it only cost 10 million for Philadelphia.

unusual, but who cares - its all on a private dime.

[SChristopher]

Madison isn't small potatoes. Think medium-size cosmopolitan city meets an ultra-liberal college town. There are a lot of opinions of Madison out there however, mine is just one of them. I did live there for almost two decades, until I moved to Milwaukee two years ago.


Thats really all I wanted to know, all I know of it is its geographic location and population. I think you would be a larger authority on it anyways, having lived there for 20 years.

[littleolme]

instead of attacking the person that attacks you you decide to attack his city and everyone in it. real mature dipwad. maybe just maybe in thirty or forty years madison will be louisvilles equal. if its lucky.

madison and lexington is a good comparison. if you moved the kentucky state capitol from frankfort to downtown lexington and put downtown lexington between two lakes and took away a few of its taller towers, youd have madison with a better climate.

[Badgers77]

LOL now you're doing the same thing. Attacking a person who offended you. Real un-hypocritical. Madison is already a much better city in dark, dreary, dying Louisville. It may not have the population but you can't let that be the sole criteria.

Inside the city limits of Louisville...

Median resident age: 35.8 years
Median household income: $28,843 (year 2000)

Okay, so an old and poor city. Population 256,231 inside the limits, and projected to be smaller now.

Now let's look at Madison:

208,054 (Projected to be around 225,000 now)

Median resident age: 30.6 years
Median household income: $41,941
Median house value: $139,300

# High school or higher: 92.4%
# Bachelor's degree or higher: 48.2%

Okay, so a younger, near-equally sized, wealthy, educated city. And keep in mind that a good deal of the students are not even taken into account into the population...

[SChristopher]

^ I dont mean to sway this even further but maybe you should look at some statistics. Louisville is definately not a DYING city. The old city limits were in some crappy decline, but alot of what you rave about in Madison can be found in Louisville, and for what its worth Louisville grows steadily. I dont know where you get the whole dark and dreary thing either, there really isnt a rediculous amount of decay and for the most part the weather is good, so I dont know what you are talking about. I have however seen you describe where you have lived and I think some travelling could definately serve you well.

I didnt mean to ATTACK you, I was just wondering about Madison because I keep hearing so much raving from a few people on here. I mean it really isnt a city you hear about on the streets, and id rather hear it from the people that live there rather than google or some site that is made for the purpose of attracting things to the city.

[Badgers77]

I know Louisville isn't dying that much, but Madison isn't Lexington either. Madison is consistently, year in and year out, rated among the top 3 or 4 best places in the nation. Forbes rated it #1 for Business, and the Washington Post named it the number 1 "smaller" (<1,000,000) population for the creative class.

I took you as trying to take a shot at me because Louisville was mentioned as one of the worst cities for creative class.

Madison is a very nice city, and so is Lexington. They are both very very different cities, though. I don't think Lexington is "small potatoes" either, and Lexington is in much, much, much better shape than Louisville.

Neither are small potatoes is my point. Madison's economy is still very booming and influential. So is Lexington's. I think, or thought, you were just using the words "small potatoes" to miss me off.

[gych]

I know Louisville isn't dying that much, but Madison isn't Lexington either. Madison is consistently, year in and year out, rated among the top 3 or 4 best places in the nation. Forbes rated it #1 for Business, and the Washington Post named it the number 1 "smaller" (<1,000,000) population for the creative class.

I took you as trying to take a shot at me because Louisville was mentioned as one of the worst cities for creative class.

Madison is a very nice city, and so is Lexington. They are both very very different cities, though. I don't think Lexington is "small potatoes" either, and Lexington is in much, much, much better shape than Louisville.

Neither are small potatoes is my point. Madison's economy is still very booming and influential. So is Lexington's. I think, or thought, you were just using the words "small potatoes" to miss me off.

HAHAHA.

Louisville has 60k more people in about one third the area. Dont try to compare your small college town to ours and bring us to a lower level. And you use the old city limits for Louisville? Nice try, kid. For one, we merged, and the city is 700k and we have a metro well over 1.2 million. The "city of STL will decline to 300k in the next census. You dont hear me trying to say that Louisville is bigger than STL becasue we merged, do you. No, because I am not ignorant and realize that the STL metro is twice the size of Louisville. Louisville, in the same way, is over twice the size of Madison.

Creative class rankings? Its an arbitrary list. I could make a list that says Madison sucks but it wouldnt be necessarily true.

Please, comparing yourself to a louisville metro of 1.2 million is a huge stretch. You would do yourself better to prove why Madison isnt a small town, even though its metro population would lead one to believe so...just like Lexington.

By the way, where have you been to in Louisville? Maybe you should do some research before slamming a city twice your size. In wisconsin, louisville is more like Milwaukee, but I have seen you slam that city many times on here. Oh well, places like Louisville and Milwaukeee are much higher on the food chain. You need to get out of Wisconsin more, kid.

[edsg25]

Madison isn't small potatoes. Think medium-size cosmopolitan city meets an ultra-liberal college town. There are a lot of opinions of Madison out there however, mine is just one of them. I did live there for almost two decades, until I moved to Milwaukee two years ago.

Definitely not small potatoes. I think it's important to note how well respected Madison is throughout its region, the Middle West. People in this part of the country hold Madison in high regard. I can defintiely say that in Chicago, Madison has a wonderful and well deserved reputation (no doubt spiked by the huge number of UW grads we have).

[Steely Dan]

who gives a fuck about yearly payroll percentage increases or any of that other boring-ass crap. this is a skyscraper forum. from my perspective as a scraperfan, a booming city is one that's building lots of scrapers and other urban development, aka "a building boom".

in this frame of mind NO ONE in the midwest comes anywhere close to touching chicago. after that, i'd wager that minneapolis is #2.

[Badgers77]

I've been to 30-some states. I didn't know Louisville merged to inflate it's population though. Settle down a little, sport. I just used www.city-data.com, a site I always use.

I was in Louisville visiting a friend after my sophomore year in HS, so several years ago.

[SChristopher]

"I didn't know Louisville merged to inflate it's population though."

I am sure that is exactly what they had in mind. I wasnt 'worked up' nor do I care about Louisville a good deal, but you like to misinform, thats annoying. Also City-Data.com isnt a very accurate site...sometimes it is, but alot of times it is dated or just wrong.

[The anti-cheesehead]

Rybak: Rebuild North Side
Rochelle Olson, Star Tribune
April 13, 2005 CITY0413


Minneapolis leaders intend to rebuild the North Side as they have the South Side through similar private-public partnerships, Mayor R.T. Rybak said Tuesday night.

"The big message is, 'We've done this before, we can do it again and we're going to do it together,' " he said of his North Side plans after he gave a one-hour address.

Rybak delivered the final State of the City speech of his four-year term at Plaza Verde, an arts and small-business center in the heart of the resurgent Lake Street corridor in south Minneapolis. The mayor is seeking reelection this year, and his speech sounded less like a finely honed address than a speedy reading of a long list with lots of numbers and names.

"People know I can give a pretty speech; they want to know: Did I get results," he said afterward in explaining the approach.

Part of his speech was intended to send a message to the middle class, which often may feel left out but is a core of what makes Minneapolis unique, Rybak also said.

He noted in the speech that he was lucky enough to be able to buy a house in the neighborhood where he grew up, although because of rising values, he could not afford to buy that home today.

The median sale price of a home in the city was $127,450 in 2000. It now is $217,450.

Rybak admitted he has no "easy answers" to the problem of the middle-class housing crunch, but said the city needs to do more, especially for first-time home buyers, minority members and seniors.

He spoke of downtown and how Minneapolis soon will have 30,000 residents there, making it the first city in the nation to regain all the downtown population lost in the 1950s.

The mayor spoke of initiatives in many areas, including but not limited to public safety, housing, youth employment and the arts.

The audience of about 150, many of them high-ranking city employees, interrupted with applause only a few times. The crowd sounded most energetic in its appraisal when the mayor said the city's top legislative priority should be to secure full funding for education, especially compensatory aid that helps Minneapolis schools teach the students living in poverty.

In his summation, Rybak spoke of how the city used to battle the suburbs as a place to live, work and shop. Now, he said, the situation has flipped as suburbs try to emulate cities by building historic-looking homes and "smart developments." He argued that Minneapolis, with transit efforts, including a streetcar proposal, and downtown housing, retail and grocery stores, is setting a national standard.

"We're leading the way creating the new American city," Rybak said.

Council Member Scott Benson characterized the speech as "full of hope" and innovations. "There are a number of activities going on here making it a great place to live," Benson said.

Others were less effusive.

Council Member Don Samuels, who represents the North Side, struck a diplomatic tone when asked about the list-oriented nature of the address. "What do you want? It's the State of the City. ... I think he was trying to get a lot of things said," Samuels said.

Samuels also said he's looking forward to moving past proposals into the development of rebuilding efforts on the North Side.

Council Member Natalie Johnson Lee, who also represents part of the North Side and is pitted against Samuels in a reelection contest in the 5th Ward said, "No comment" about the speech and declined to say more.

Council Vice President Robert Lilligren said that he was glad Rybak gave the speech in the community but that, "It was a lot of numbers."

Council Member Gary Schiff was the most pointed, saying he heard "a collective pat on the back" and "no vision."

He added, "It's nice to appreciate other people's hard work, but traditionally City Councils gather to hear his priorities and what the next year will bring."

[Sirus]

"We're leading the way creating the new American city," Rybak said.

that sounds all good, but I hardly believe that we're "leading the way".
The spot about the median house price is very important especialy since rental housing is being gobbled up at a fast pace in preference of owner occupied living. I hope that when I want to buy a place in the future I can afford it.

[Badgers77]

The median sale price of a home in the city was $127,450 in 2000. It now is $217,450.

That's insane. I don't think Minneapolis will ever be an "American City" though. I mean not to the extent San Francisco, etc is. But I don't think he means to that extent.

[Indyman]

I agree. Minneapolis is a little overated and isn't that "American City" some perceive it to be.

[madlib696]

what do you mean Minneapolis is a little overated and is not that "American City"? I really would like to know. Aslo if you are talking overated in the sence that this city gets a lot of good things said about it on these forums and then in real life a few of those posts are a little exagerated then sure I see what you mean. If you are talking about the mainstream public then I don't think MPLS is even close to overated many will here MPLS and just brush it of thinking it is to cold, or that it is like the movie Fargo. Only a few will look into minneapolis and turn into city junkies like everyone here :) Also by "American City" are you saying that because we dont have nascar,it is very very blue(rember liberls hate America and they hate freedom according to some neocons) not everyone has a flag blowing in the wind or eats fast food everyday or drives a Hummer (that by the way screams American waste). Well because to me being an American isn't all about rubbing where you are from in someone else's face all the time. I mean what if someone moved next door and was from....China and all they did was drive a little car put a big flag of China on there 80 foot flag pole listened to China radio while making food from what else China and all this time had a very clean and organized lifestyle. You would want to kick that dudes ass wouldn't you him being all perfect and clean and you the American messy, resource wasting, unorganized, and on and on. I think that it is because of this I am American here me roar kind of thing that really is getting a lot of countrys upset (the war in iraq does not help ether) and want to kick our ass. In short I am proud to be an American but I have no need to remind everyone I see passing by that I am one.

[gaviidae]

Just what is an "American City"?

[Indyman]

what do you mean Minneapolis is a little overated and is not that "American City"? I really would like to know. Aslo if you are talking overated in the sence that this city gets a lot of good things said about it on these forums and then in real life a few of those posts are a little exagerated then sure I see what you mean. If you are talking about the mainstream public then I don't think MPLS is even close to overated many will here MPLS and just brush it of thinking it is to cold, or that it is like the movie Fargo. Only a few will look into minneapolis and turn into city junkies like everyone here :) Also by "American City" are you saying that because we dont have nascar,it is very very blue(rember liberls hate America and they hate freedom according to some neocons) not everyone has a flag blowing in the wind or eats fast food everyday or drives a Hummer (that by the way screams American waste). Well because to me being an American isn't all about rubbing where you are from in someone else's face all the time. I mean what if someone moved next door and was from....China and all they did was drive a little car put a big flag of China on there 80 foot flag pole listened to China radio while making food from what else China and all this time had a very clean and organized lifestyle. You would want to kick that dudes ass wouldn't you him being all perfect and clean and you the American messy, resource wasting, unorganized, and on and on. I think that it is because of this I am American here me roar kind of thing that really is getting a lot of countrys upset (the war in iraq does not help ether) and want to kick our ass. In short I am proud to be an American but I have no need to remind everyone I see passing by that I am one.

I'm sorry if I've upset you but I was just stating Minneapolis isn't an "American City". Perhapes the title "American City" does project a negative image in your mind. Anyways it doesn't matter. I mean, look where I'm from. lol

[rider_of_rohan]

As someone who moved away from the twin cities I would say the quality of life isnt that great there. Really I know people like it but it wasnt for me, and I have lived in cities most of my life. Im very happy in an area about an hour away and I rarely visit the twin cities anymore. I choose to go other ways to see what I want. The economy in the twin cities is not that great at this time. A boom town? Well if you base it on population growth then I would say Sioux Falls South Dakota, its population as a percentage is growing faster thant he twin cities or any city on that list. Their economy is doing well and they are revitalizing old areas of town and building new ones. I realize its not the scale of these other cities but everything starts somewhere.

[madlib696]

Indyman no you did not make me upset. I let myself get in an out of control rant (I think I am turning into my father) and I was not directing what I said at anyone here it is just I wanted to see if people understood or not about what I am saying that is all. Also no the title "American City" does not have a negative image in my eye's (IMO NYC would be an American City) I think that everyone has its own deffintion of what makes a city American or not. Some would say it has to have a track where they can watch cars go up to 200 mph (i dont no how fast they can go) doing only left turns for hours on end and some might say it has to have a good skyline I don't know? In truth everyone of us can pick from the 100's (maybe 1000's plus) of different ways to decide what is American and what is not. After all that is what makes the good ol USA what it is today. :)
Also i still dont know what u mean by what u said about overated and "American city" I just want to know that is all :)

rider_of_rohan where in the twins did you live (how long,when did u move)? Also it is fine MPLS is not for everyone (i hope someday it will) but when you talk about the MPLS pop gain being not that great compared by % to Sioux Falls SD then maybe SF is a little beter in terms of %. but in hard numbers MPLS is a larger city then SF. Say each city gained 1000 people last year and SF the year before had a pop of 20,000 and MPLS had a pop of 50,000
(i dont need to do the math u can tell just by looking at the numbers like a reading test if i get 10 right out of 50 and my friend gets 10 out of 20 what % is going to look better) so sure by percent maybe SF looks better but withs numbers you can see the reason why MPLS pop growth looks small. (also i know that i pulled these number out my ass but i am just using them as an example).

[rider_of_rohan]

Mad I moved away about 14 months ago and dont miss the twin cities. I lived in Burnsville, apple valley, and chaska over 7 years. I spent a lot of time in Minneapolis and St. Paul in that time and at first loved it. I feel the city changed and the quality of life went down and at the end I was happy to leave. As far as comparing lets do just that.
Sioux falls population 1990-101,461 2000-123,975 change 22,524, or 22.19%
Minneaplis population 1990-368,383 2000-382,618 change 14,235, or 3.9%
which looks like it is growing faster? The high cost of doing business in Minneapolis and Minnesota are also driving business into Sioux Falls. I see it as a boom town, and this is from someone who is originaly from Florida where they have massive population growth. We all have our own opinion about what is a boom I guess, they are not building skyscrapers in Sioux Falls, in fact the tallest I think they are building is two 7 story condos (is that all anyone is building anymore???). Oh well.

[cwilson758]

wow, this turned hateful.

I think that a whole spectra of things must be considered in determing a "boom," not just a few. POpulaton is one, but what about infrastructre, education, employment, housing, etc all have to be considered. I would say Indy, but there are areas in which we are lacking. Minneapolis, sure, but I know there are some areas that need work too. IMO, it is typically more noticable in cities that are below 500,000 in metro to recognize a boom.

[Toggie]

Mad I moved away about 14 months ago and dont miss the twin cities. I lived in Burnsville, apple valley, and chaska over 7 years. I spent a lot of time in Minneapolis and St. Paul in that time and at first loved it. I feel the city changed and the quality of life went down and at the end I was happy to leave. As far as comparing lets do just that.
Sioux falls population 1990-101,461 2000-123,975 change 22,524, or 22.19%
Minneaplis population 1990-368,383 2000-382,618 change 14,235, or 3.9%
which looks like it is growing faster? The high cost of doing business in Minneapolis and Minnesota are also driving business into Sioux Falls. I see it as a boom town, and this is from someone who is originaly from Florida where they have massive population growth. We all have our own opinion about what is a boom I guess, they are not building skyscrapers in Sioux Falls, in fact the tallest I think they are building is two 7 story condos (is that all anyone is building anymore???). Oh well.

when people talk population growth they are referring to METRO population growth, obviously you understand that the entire city of Minneapolis is completely built up so population growth is limited to reconstruction whereas the city of Sioux falls still has undeveloped or underdeveloped land to build houses on. If you compare metro figures the Sioux falls metro increased by 33,539 while MSP increased 429,972. This fact also shows the absurdity of comparing these two areas.

[madlib696]

rider_of_rohan yes that is what I ment, pop growth by %. That SF is growing faster by % then MPLS. This is why I did my little math story. I was saying in real numbers it would take MPLS a hell of a lot more people to have the pop growth %age that SF has, but MPLS still gained more people. Also I am not seeing my local mall (knollwood yes I know it sux) just loading up onto a flatbed and haulen ass to SF, because SF is having a large % change in pop. Again if city X had 1 person in it and city Y had 10 people in it they both add one more person the next time they do a pop survay and OMG city X just dubled its pop and as for city Y well it gets all the bad press for only gaing 1 person.
Also yes it may cost more to do business in MN but on average we get paid more so it suits me just fine. Also because you are growing (Gasp) business are opening up shop in SF. Not taking it away from MN. How many Best Buys,Targets, and stadium seating movie complexes can you name w/ in a 20 mile range? as for in St. Louis Park and a 20 mile range I can count at least 5 targets (2 in my city) Best Buys 3, and for the movies 4. I am sure there are more w/ in 20 miles but I don't need to go to them so I did not count them. I am saying this because Minneapolis and the metro already have the things (and then some) you maybe getting now or soon. St. Louis Park does not need a 3rd Target so sure its growth might be lower (% wise) but the businesse's we do have (the 2 targets in SPL are doing very well) are doing fine.

[Malo]

To classify any of these cities as being in a BOOM would be a vast exageration in my opinion.

...and the last time you were in Minneapolis was when? Because, if you had been there in the last year or so, you would have been able to see with your own eyes, the BOOM that is taking place there. Most of the cities in the South/SunBelt should be undergoing the same level of construction as Minny is.

[Malo]

I am not FROM Louisville mister defensive, I am merely here right now, I move all over. To clear things up for you I am FROM Los Angeles, and in terms of a boom it sits on your city's face. Anywho I find yours to be a great city just not in a BOOM compared to others that rightfully are. Many of these are simply recovering.

Personally, I can only hope that Minneapolis is happy with Los Angeles on its face. I never knew they were that close :)

[bigboyz2004]

All of you are wrong! The midwestern city with the biggest boom right now is Falcon's Landing, Kansas! Lol!

[Bond James Bond]

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_19/b3932051_mz011.htm

Business Week
MAY 9, 2005
The Midwest Isn't Feeling Motor City's Pain
Many factories are on a tear, with business they haven't seen since 2000

At first glance, America's industrial heartland is looking rusty again. General Motors Corp. (GM ) and its Motown rivals are slashing production, hurting suppliers and anyone else that depends on the car industry to pay the bills (page 84). Parts-maker Meridian Automotive Systems Inc. filed for bankruptcy protection on Apr. 26. Tower Automotive (TWR ) Tower's ticker is TWRAQ Inc., which declared Chapter 11 in February, will shut three plants by July, shedding 800 workers. Michigan's jobless rate is now the second-highest in the land, at 6.9%, with Ohio not far behind at 6.3%.

Fortunately, there's more to Midwest manufacturing than Detroit. Just a four-hour drive south on I-75 is General Electric Co.'s (GE ) booming aircraft-engine plant. GE's factory in Evendale, Ohio, is gearing up to build 800 engines for narrowbody passenger planes for Boeing Co. (BA ) and Airbus this year -- up from 700 last year. And more than 1,000 are already on order for 2006. With demand for new aircraft surging in Asia and Europe, GE Chairman and Chief Executive Jeffrey R. Immelt says the division has now called back all of its hourly employees laid off after September 11 -- and has hired 200 more engineers. Most striking, for the first time in 20 years the plant is recruiting entry-level machinists. Says Immelt: "Our factories are full."

Indeed, much of the region's factory sector is racing along at its best clip since the economy's previous peak, in 2000. The Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago reported on Apr. 27 that its Midwest manufacturing index rose a respectable 1.7% in March from a year earlier, led by a 5.8% jump in machinery output. "The glass isn't half empty," says William A. Strauss, senior economist at the Chicago Fed. "It's more like three-quarters full."

Midwestern manufacturers owe much of their fortune to a spending spree by industrial, farm, freight, and mining customers who are enjoying their best markets in years. While sales of automobiles and light trucks have been slipping, orders are pouring in for bigger vehicles -- from trucks and tractors to trains and airplanes.

BIG RIGS
As a result, industrial heavyweights are hiking their 2005 forecasts for sales and profits, increasing capital spending to boost capacity, raising prices, and adding to their job rolls.

Cummins Inc. is a shining example of that other Midwest. The Columbus (Ind.) company has three shifts working around the clock to build engines for long-haul trucks. North American sales of big rigs are on target to hit 285,000 this year -- up 73% from a recent low of 166,000 in '03 -- as freight companies replace old trucks and add to their fleets to handle the growing flow of goods from the nation's ports and factories. With more growth expected in 2006, Cummins is investing $7 million on new equipment to expand engine output and is hiring more workers. "We are at capacity," says CEO Theodore M. Solso.

Cummins has a lot of company. Caterpillar Inc. (CAT ) recently bumped up its 2005 outlook, saying that profits will climb at least 35%, to a record $2.6 billion, thanks to increased sales of heavy-duty engines and earthmoving machines. Union Pacific Corp. (UPN ) is spending $700 million for 315 locomotives and 4,000 railcars, vs. $526 million in 2004. Electro-Motive Diesel Inc. in LaGrange, Ill., which is assembling 115 of those engines, has a backlog that will keep its factory workers busy well into 2006. At Deere & Co., in the meantime, employees in its Waterloo, Iowa, complex are logging overtime hours to meet the demand for tractors.

Of course, the heartland would be better off if the Big Three auto makers were expanding production, as the Japanese and European transplants are doing in the South. Nationally, the automobile sector grew 3.2% in March from a year earlier, while sinking 1.9% in the Midwest. Still, says Alexander M. Cutler, CEO of industrial-goods maker Eaton Corp. in Cleveland: "The industrial side of the economy is quite robust." Singing the Rust Belt blues may be appropriate for Detroit. But all around the rest of the Midwest, the tune they're singing is far more upbeat.

[Jasonhouse]

Forumers will note that the newbie troll CQ has been banned and DN1982 has been banished from all discussions of MSP or Minnesota.

The staff apologizes for not dealing with these childish trolls sooner.

However, forumers who responded and participated in this debacle should note that consistently doing this will get you in just as much trouble as the perpetrators. There are rules here and EVERYONE is expected to follow them. Just because some dolt trolls a thread does not give forumers the right to further ruin the thread, thus making the task of modding that much harder. Please PM a mod, or leave it be.

Thanks.

[Minneapolis024]

Minneapolis is having a housing boom.