2004 Midwest MSAs over 100k ranked

[Darrell]

RANK MSA 2004

1 Chicago-Naperville-Joliet, IL-IN-WI 9391515
2 Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI 4493165
3 Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI 3116206
4 St. Louis, MO-IL 2764054
5 Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor, OH 2137073
6 Cincinnati-Middletown, OH-KY-IN 2058221
7 Kansas City, MO-KS 1925319
8 Columbus, OH 1693906
9 Indianapolis, IN 1621613
10 Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis, WI 1515738
11 Dayton, OH 845646
12 Omaha-Council Bluffs, NE-IA 803801
13 Grand Rapids-Wyoming, MI 767539
14 Akron, OH 702078
15 Toledo, OH 658236
16 Youngstown-Warren-Boardman, OH-PA 590038
17 Wichita, KS 584671
18 Madison, WI 531766
19 Des Moines, IA 511878
20 Lansing-East Lansing, MI 455929
21 Flint, MI 443947
22 Canton-Massillon, OH 410805
23 Fort Wayne, IN 402086
24 Springfield, MO 390986
25 Davenport-Moline-Rock Island, IA-IL 375437
26 Peoria, IL 367860
27 Evansville, IN-KY 348454
28 Ann Arbor, MI 339191
29 Rockford, IL 335278
30 Kalamazoo-Portage, MI 319265
31 South Bend-Mishawaka, IN-MI 318192
32 Green Bay, WI 295473
33 Lincoln, NE 278201
34 Duluth, MN-WI 275820
35 Holland-Grand Haven, MI 252351
36 Cedar Rapids, IA 244546
37 Topeka, KS 227820
38 Champaign-Urbana, IL 215122
39 Appleton, WI 213102
40 Saginaw-Saginaw Township North, MI 209062
41 Springfield, IL 204745
42 Sioux Falls, SD 203324
43 Racine, WI 194188
44 Elkhart-Goshen, IN 191768
45 Fargo, ND-MN 181520
46 Lafayette, IN 181512
47 St. Cloud, MN 179154
48 Bloomington, IN 177587
49 Rochester, MN 174853
50 Muskegon-Norton Shores, MI 174401
51 Terre Haute, IN 168767
52 Joplin, MO 164235
53 Niles-Benton Harbor, MI 163125
54 Jackson, MI 162973
55 Waterloo-Cedar Falls, IA 161913
56 Oshkosh-Neenah, WI 159008
57 Bloomington-Normal, IL 158006
58 Janesville, WI 156512
59 Ottawa-Streator, IL 153601
60 Eau Claire, WI 153150
61 Monroe, MI 152552
62 Columbia, MO 151307
63 Sioux City, IA-NE-SD 143192
64 Jefferson City, MO 142448
65 Traverse City, MI 139585
66 Battle Creek, MI 139067
67 Iowa City, IA 137397
68 Anderson, IN 130602
69 La Crosse, WI-MN 128644
70 Mansfield, OH 128096
71 Wausau, WI 127733
72 St. Joseph, MO-KS 122209
73 Muncie, IN 117774
74 Rapid City, SD 117487
75 Sheboygan, WI 113958
76 Wooster, OH 113577
77 Allegan, MI 112477
78 East Liverpool-Salem, OH 111519
79 Decatur, IL 110980
80 Michigan City-La Porte, IN 109755
81 Bay City, MI 109480
82 Kankakee-Bradley, IL 107188
83 Manhattan, KS 107051
84 Lima, OH 106873
85 Ashtabula, OH 103152
86 Lawrence, KS 102786
87 Adrian, MI 101768
88 Kokomo, IN 101220

[edsg25]

The most surprising thing for me on the list was that Milwaukee was the smallest major metro. I didn't realize that.

Milwaukee does a good job of projecting itself to be bigger than that, IMHO.

[Azn_chi_boi]

at least milwaukee doesnt sprawl that much. Have a very small area, that was counted in its metro compare to others.

[unusualfire]

YEah it does have an small area. but adding much more won't add much to the population base. It will just dilute density. Every metro along a bay, lake or ocean are usually denser than a city out in the open. Where ii can spread out in all directions.

[edsg25]

another surprise to me, in capital letters (as in WI and IA):

I had no idea that metro Madison was larger than metro DM...never would have suspected that.

Azn, I agree with you about the relative lack of sprawl in metro Milw; also, the city's % of population in metro Milw far exceeds Cincy, St. Louis, and a number of other midwestern metros. That, in itself, is interesting because theoretically it should allow Milw to have more influence in metro Milw than it does. The positive side to the large % of the area's population that Milw has, IMHO, has been its ability to rebuild its downtown and to benefit from gentrification more than a number of other midwestern metros. There have, for example, been a number of pieces on the board recently about St. Louis's revival downtown and I have to give StL credit; it is happening. But, IMHO, St. Louis is far behind Milwaukee in creating an attractive, livable and healthy downtown. Driving through downtown Milw to me shows off a place that's really in good shape in a number of categories: major residential building (new structures along the lakefront, warehouse renovation in 3rd ward, etc.), quality old buildings in mint conditon, restaurants, cultural institutions, a terrific river walk.

[james2390]

I wonder why South Bend and Mishawaka isn't combined with Elkhart and Goshen.

[Fighting Irish]

^ Not enough commuters go from South Bend to Elkhart and vice versa. Same reason Niles-Benton Harbor isn't combined with South Bend.

[james2390]

Oh I see, I was just surprised because Mishawaka and Elkhart are like 5 miles apart.

[Azn_chi_boi]

13 Grand Rapids-Wyoming, MI 767539
35 Holland-Grand Haven, MI 252351
50 Muskegon-Norton Shores, MI 174401

Just found out those arent together, thought they were. They should be, if not, comind be over a million.

[Lmichigan]

They are for CSA's

[hudkina]

Grand Rapids is an anomoly in the way they calculate it. For instance half of the actual city of Holland isn't even in the Holland MSA. Allegan has its own MSA despite the fact that it doesn't even have an urban area of over 10,000 people (a reguirement to be a micropolitan area). Nearly half of the population of Muskegon's urban area isn't even included in the Muskegon MSA. A huge portion of Grand Rapid's urban area is in Holland's MSA. In fact, the population of the portion of Grand Rapid's urban area that spills over into Holland's MSA is larger than Holland's urban area. Also, there are two counties that missed the 25% cutoff by a few tenths of a percent. 24.7% of Montcalm residents commute to Grand Rapids and 24.3% of Oceana county residents commute to Muskegon.

In anycase, despite what the census bureau says, to me the Grand Rapids metro includes:

Kent County - 593,898
Ottawa County - 252,351
Muskegon County - 174,401
Allegan County - 112,477
Ionia County - 64,378
Montcalm County - 63,627
Barry County - 59,371
Newaygo County - 49,892
Oceana County - 28,415
Total: 1,398,810

[DTO Luv]

Would anyone have a CSA list for Midwest cities? I had no idea Omaha was number 12. Yay for us.

[EastSider]

The most surprising thing for me on the list was that Milwaukee was the smallest major metro. I didn't realize that.

Milwaukee does a good job of projecting itself to be bigger than that, IMHO.

You think Milwaukee does a good job of projecting itself larger than it is? In terms of metro pop. that makes sense, but it terms of downtown population I think it's underrated. What do you think?

[EastSider]

Driving through downtown Milw to me shows off a place that's really in good shape in a number of categories: major residential building (new structures along the lakefront, warehouse renovation in 3rd ward, etc.), quality old buildings in mint conditon, restaurants, cultural institutions, a terrific river walk.

Edsg it seems by many of your posts that you're a fan of Milwaukee. Have you always been, or are you drawn to whats going on here like I am? 5 years ago I hated it, but 5 years ago it was a different city IMO.

[edsg25]

You think Milwaukee does a good job of projecting itself larger than it is? In terms of metro pop. that makes sense, but it terms of downtown population I think it's underrated. What do you think?

EastSider, I probably didn't make myself clear on that one. I'm glad you asked so I could clarify.

I was thinking less about how it promotes itself and more about
what's on the ground. Downtown Milw comes across as a place that is in good shape. It is not run down. There are so many quality, old buildings that are beautifully preserved (and with a teutonic detailing that makes them distinctive compared to other cities). The East Side lakefront adjacent to downtown shows a line of residential high rises that is more than impressive for a city the size of Milwaukee (with its two tallest buildings currently under development): these and other residential buildings convey a city that doesn't have to say to its suburbs "we're trying to revive. give us a look". The river walk is great, and far more accessible today than ours in Chicago. The third ward is one of the most attractive warehouse districts I've ever seen and is clearly a magnet for residential construction. And across downtown on Third Street, the charm of the city's German heritage comes across nicely.

The point is, downtown Milwaukee doesn't look or feel like the downtowns of so many cities that are clearly still in the dumps and in desperate need to turn around. Downtown Milw projects a damned nice image...but that's not promotion and frankly, unless somebody sees it, they wouldn't know what I just wrote about.

[edsg25]

Edsg it seems by many of your posts that you're a fan of Milwaukee. Have you always been, or are you drawn to whats going on here like I am? 5 years ago I hated it, but 5 years ago it was a different city IMO.

EastSider, so many people (especially people on this board) get really excited about the type of urbanization that is going on today in so many places across the country. As Chicago and Milwaukee are drawn closer and closer together, filling in the lakeshore between the two, there is a most natural tendency to see us as being in the same place, the same area.

So I tend to look at so many of the good things that are happening in Milwaukee as being part of what's happening in my back yard. I believe that Chicago and Milwaukee, rather than being competive, compliment each other very nicely. One city is huge and the other good size...and both do a great job at each role. Chicago may have more massive and world scale attractions; Milwaukee does a much better job of making its great attractions accessible.

I don't know if I answered your question, but I guess I'm saying that while I'm a Chicagoan, Milwaukee is right there in the neighborhood and I feel an affinity with it and like what's going on there. Very nice city, and constantly getting better.

[EastSider]

^You answered my questions right on, thanks.

I think it's exciting to think about the strengthening of the Chicago--Milwaukee relationship. It's re-affirming to hear positive comments about Milwaukee from a Chicago resident like yourself. I can't wait to see what happens down the road.

[edsg25]

^You answered my questions right on, thanks.

I think it's exciting to think about the strengthening of the Chicago--Milwaukee relationship. It's re-affirming to hear positive comments about Milwaukee from a Chicago resident like yourself. I can't wait to see what happens down the road.

EastSider, I think that there is a lot of positive feelings about Milw in Chicago. You have to remember that a lot of us head north to Summerfest in the summer, consider the Milw Zoo to be a great place to go, gamble at Pottawatomi (which advertises incesantly here), take in a Cub-Brewer game at Miller Park, etc. It really is in the neighborhood and is looked at that way.

State boundaries mean less and less these days. To me, the economic health of the combined region on the southwestern shores of Lake Michigan has more inpact on me than what occurs across most of the prairies of Illinois.

[Azn_chi_boi]

I always tell my parents, when they ask me "where would you like to go on a weekend trip". Always say Millwukee and saying how its the closest major city for many many miles. The closest, I ever got to Milwukee was when a Marshall fields was closed on Grand Ave in MILL about 7-10 years ago, so yeah... saw so many stuff.

One time I did this to my parents, and this is after having a trip to the Dells, when we hit madison, my parents notice both interstates go to Chicago(with I-90, going to chicago from Madison takes about 20 miles less than I-94). So I recommended using I-94. I told them about Milwaukee and you could see another major city while going back to chicago,and I said, less tolls...(compare to $1.25, compare to $2.00) I think this was before the I-pass thingy.

Longstory short, stopped at Miluwkee and Gurnee...

I like Wisconsin better than the rest of Illinois too. Without Chicago, Illinois will bea poor, and aviodable state like the Dakotas.

[airmale007]

I like Wisconsin better than the rest of Illinois too. Without Chicago, Illinois will bea poor, and aviodable state like the Dakotas.


Oh boy. It sure does suck to be down here in the poor part of Illinois. Have you even been to the rest of Illinois? If you keep "avioding" it, then you won't ever appreciate it.
The new Lincoln Museum just opened in Springfield, for example, and the Farm Progress Show has made it's permanent home in Decatur. Besides that, there are already countless cultural attractions and historic sites to visit in the rest of Illinois, so please, by all means, come and take a look.

Also, the Dakotas have Mt.Rushmore and the Black Hills. That's gotta count for something.

[Azn_chi_boi]

I am aware of that new Lincoln Museum, wow his own presentidal meseum. I want to go and see it soon. I am not really interested in farms.

[Indyman]

:eek2: I have always been disapointed in the Indiana city's metro populations. Indianapolis is the 12 biggest city in the U.S.(only counting resisdents inside the city) I think a number of factors contribute to the low metro population of Indianapolis. First of all they have incorperated every city in sight into Indianapolis increasing the city size and lowering the metro population. Indy also just doesnt have any thing else big around it.

[cwilson758]

:eek2: I have always been disapointed in the Indiana city's metro populations. Indianapolis is the 12 biggest city in the U.S.(only counting resisdents inside the city) I think a number of factors contribute to the low metro population of Indianapolis. First of all they have incorperated every city in sight into Indianapolis increasing the city size and lowering the metro population. Indy also just doesnt have any thing else big around it.


ummm...I have to disagree. Indy has not and cannot annex! Because of Unigiv, the City was allowed to expand to the Marion County boarder on April 1, 1969. Since then, no annexations have occured nor are they allowed. Four cities, Lawrence, Speedway, Beech Grove and Southport, were all granted "excluded" city status and are not incuded with the City of Indianapolis. So, Indy isn't annexing everything in sight.

As for metro...please explain how annexing land into a city LOWERS a metro population? This is fundamentally untrue. Indy's metro area is growing at a very nice pace. Certainly not the fastest, but for a metro area of it's size, it certainly is holding its own. A 15%-plus average increase is very good, especially for the midwest!

[Indyman]

Sorry. I goofed, bigtime. I misunderstood a few things. lol