Diversity/Immigration Numbers

[brooklynprospect]

I figure that a thread dedicated to actual statistics might be more useful than the previous Most Diverse City threads, which seemed to always degenerate into name calling.

well here are some 2003 metro NY stats from http://uscis.gov (including NYC; Nassau-Suffolk, Newark, NJ; Bergen-Passaic, NJ; Middlesex-Somerset-Hunterdon, NJ; and Jersey City, NJ)

These numbers are only for NY metro legal immigration in 2003. Just one year's immigration. This does not include illegal immigration. To make the list a bit shorter, I dropped countries that sent less than 200 people (legally)

Total: 115620

Dominican Republic: 16884
India: 9818
China, People's Republic: 9017
Jamaica: 5382
Guyana: 5267
El Salvador: 4596
Ecuador: 4145
Haiti: 3766
Colombia: 3710
Philippines: 3683
Poland: 3068
Ukraine: 2454
Pakistan: 2376
Bangladesh: 2137
Peru: 2023
Trinidad & Tobago: 1998
Russia: 1868
Korea: 1585
Nigeria: 1471
Mexico: 1393
Ghana: 1363
Guatemala: 1016


Egypt: 999
Honduras: 881
Serbia and Montenegro: 878
United Kingdom: 867
Albania: 856
Brazil: 855
Taiwan: 743
Hong Kong: 741
Turkey: 741
Israel: 712
Uzbekistan: 682
Japan: 600
Canada: 596
Morocco: 551
Cuba: 543
Vietnam: 465
Romania: 442
Jordan: 425
Belarus: 422
Syria: 384
Germany: 370
Bulgaria: 366
Venezuela: 345
Argentina : 335
France: 334
Yemen: 334
Togo: 333
Grenada: 331
Barbados: 297
Iran: 283
Italy: 282
Portugal: 272
Georgia: 271
Liberia: 268
Lithuania: 240
Azerbaijan: 238
Kenya: 223
Nicaragua: 220
Lebanon: 217
Macedonia: 209
Sri Lanka: 208
Sierra Leone: 207

[brooklynprospect]

me again. Here are another set of numbers for 2003 metro Los Angeles legal immigration.

Pulled from from http://uscis.gov, and I combined LA, Orange, Riverside, San Bernadino and Ventura numbers.

Total: 93266

Mexico: 27478
El Salvador: 11595
Philippines: 7771
Guatemala: 6242
Vietnam: 4611
China, People's Republic: 4061
Iran: 2616
Korea: 2567
India: 2537
Taiwan: 2083
Nicaragua: 1084


Peru: 972
Japan: 925
Armenia: 833
United Kingdom: 775
Colombia: 708
Russia: 658
Canada: 631
Thailand: 611
Honduras: 611
Hong Kong: 561
Cambodia : 560
Pakistan: 520
Indonesia : 499
Lebanon: 463
Ukraine: 441
Egypt: 405
Argentina : 382
Syria: 378
Ecuador: 360
Israel: 342
Brazil: 322
Germany: 316
Nigeria: 313
Romania: 290
Ethiopia: 285
Bangladesh: 261
Sri Lanka: 253
Belize: 246
France: 244
Cuba: 232
Burma: 212
Jordan: 211

[brooklynprospect]

Me again. Sorry for all the posts. Either you like numbers or you don't.

2003 Metro Chicago Legal Immigration. Source obtained from http://uscis.gov

Total: 29815

Mexico: 5629
India: 4098
Poland: 4094
Philippines: 1918
China, People's Republic: 1436


Lithuania: 878
Bulgaria: 725
Pakistan: 723
Ukraine: 682
Korea: 479
Russia: 435
Jordan: 419
Nigeria: 392
Guatemala: 379
Romania: 373
Vietnam: 335
Bosnia-Herzegovina: 295
United Kingdom: 288
Canada: 284
Serbia and Montenegro: 245
El Salvador: 239
Ecuador: 239
Colombia: 213
Albania: 200

[brooklynprospect]

2003 Metro Miami Legal Immigration.

Included Miami, Ft Lauderdale, and West Palm Beach-Boca Raton PSMAs

Total: 36594

Cuba: 5661
Haiti: 4283
Colombia: 4220
Jamaica: 3212
Peru: 1923
Venezuela: 1772
Dominican Republic: 1215
Nicaragua: 1182
Brazil: 1080
Argentina: 1010


Honduras: 742
Ecuador: 729
Mexico: 653
Philippines: 525
Trinidad & Tobago: 511
India: 420
Canada: 406
Guatemala: 349
El Salvador: 340
United Kingdom: 333
China, People's Republic: 296
Chile: 294
Russia: 284
Guyana: 260
Israel: 228
Bahamas, The: 222

[brooklynprospect]

2003 SF Bay Area Legal Immigration.

Included San Francisco, Oakland and San Jose PMSAs (only ones listed in top 50 metros for immigrants)

Total: 39493

China, People's Republic: 6372
Philippines: 5307
Mexico: 4327
India: 4025
Vietnam: 3369
El Salvador: 1307
Taiwan: 1231

Hong Kong: 825
Iran: 687
Russia: 592
Japan: 576
Korea: 571
Guatemala: 525
United Kingdom: 514
Peru: 495
Canada: 398
Fiji: 366
Pakistan: 362
Ethiopia: 338
Nicaragua: 311
Ukraine: 286
Germany: 271
Burma: 245
France: 239
Brazil: 230
Indonesia : 200

[wickedestcity]

ok dude, the Chicago figures for 2003 are more like this:


Total 29,815

Europe
Albania 200
Andorra -
Armenia 7
Austria 6
Azerbaijan 27
Belarus 117
Belgium 16
Bosnia-Herzegovina 295
Bulgaria 725
Croatia 63
Czech Republic 4
Czechoslovakia, former 26
Denmark 13
Estonia 6
Finland 3
France 69
Georgia 10
Germany 120
Gibraltar -
Greece 29
Hungary 34
Iceland D
Ireland 42
Italy 62
Kazakhstan 43
Kyrgyzstan 7
Latvia 24
Lithuania 878
Luxembourg -
Macedonia 59
Malta -
Moldova 26
Monaco -
Netherlands 29
Norway 5
Poland 4,094
Portugal 4
Romania 373
Russia 435
Serbia and Montenegro 245
Slovak Republic 60
Slovenia D
Soviet Union, former 131
Spain 22
Sweden 30
Switzerland 24
Tajikistan D
Turkmenistan 3
Ukraine 682
United Kingdom 288
Uzbekistan 28

Asia
Afghanistan 7
Bahrain 3
Bangladesh 67
Bhutan -
Brunei -
Burma 24
Cambodia 35
China, People's Republic 1,436
Cyprus D
Hong Kong 107
India 4,098
Indonesia 36
Iran 118
Iraq 168
Israel 88
Japan 160
Jordan 419
Korea 479
Kuwait 42
Laos 16
Lebanon 66
Macau 7
Malaysia 25
Maldives -
Mongolia D
Nepal 51
Oman 12
Pakistan 723
Philippines 1,918
Qatar 3
Saudi Arabia 65
Singapore 10
Sri Lanka 33
Syria 126
Taiwan 135
Thailand 89
Turkey 94
United Arab Emirates 34
Vietnam 335
Yemen 21

Africa
Algeria 45
Angola D
Benin 8
Botswana -
Burkina Faso -
Burundi -
Cameroon 27
Cape Verde D
Central African Republic -
Chad -
Comoros -
Congo, Democratic Republic 3
Congo, Republic 9
Cote d'Ivoire 12
Djibouti -
Egypt 69
Equatorial Guinea -
Eritrea 13
Ethiopia 115
Gabon -
Gambia, The D
Ghana 148
Guinea 3
Guinea-Bissau 4
Kenya 53
Lesotho -
Liberia 23
Libya 7
Madagascar -
Malawi D
Mali -
Mauritania D
Mauritius -
Morocco 87
Mozambique -
Namibia -
Niger 58
Nigeria 392
Reunion D
Rwanda D
Sao Tome & Principe -
Senegal 6
Seychelles -
Sierra Leone 7
Somalia 18
South Africa 77
Sudan 41
Swaziland D
Tanzania 12
Togo 44
Tunisia 10
Uganda 17
Zambia 8
Zimbabwe 7

Oceania
American Samoa D
Australia 41
Cook Islands -
Fiji 4
French Polynesia D
Kiribati -
Marshall Islands -
Micronesia, Federated States -
Nauru -
New Caledonia -
New Zealand 13
Northern Mariana Islands D
Palau -
Papua New Guinea D
Samoa D
Solomon Islands -
Tonga D
Vanuatu -

North America
Canada 284
Greenland -
Mexico 5,629
United States -

Caribbean
Anguilla -
Antigua-Barbuda D
Aruba -
Bahamas, The 3
Barbados 3
Bermuda D
British Virgin Islands -
Cayman Islands -
Cuba 35
Dominica -
Dominican Republic 65
Grenada 3
Guadeloupe -
Haiti 83
Jamaica 183
Martinique -
Montserrat -
Netherlands Antilles D
Puerto Rico -
St. Kitts-Nevis -
St. Lucia D
St. Vincent & the Grenadines -
Trinidad & Tobago 27
Turks & Caicos Islands -
U.S. Virgin Islands -

Central America
Belize 35
Costa Rica 11
El Salvador 239
Guatemala 379
Honduras 88
Nicaragua 40
Panama 17

South America
Argentina 50
Bolivia 13
Brazil 82
Chile 14
Colombia 213
Ecuador 239
French Guiana -
Guyana 22
Paraguay 4
Peru 148
Suriname D
Uruguay 4
Venezuela 29

Other/Unknown
Stateless D
Unknown 45

- Represents zero.
D* Data withheld to limit disclosure.

[brooklynprospect]

ok chicago figures are more like this:
.

I think our numbers are the same. But I got rid of every country that sent less than 200 people, and placed eveything in descending order. To make things more simple!

[brooklynprospect]

2003 Metro Houston Legal Immigration

I just can't stop...

Total: 15357

Mexico: 5214
El Salvador: 1283
Vietnam: 1015

India: 935
Philippines: 763
Nigeria: 583
China, People's Republic: 434
Pakistan: 395
Colombia: 352
Guatemala: 288
Honduras: 248
United Kingdom: 229

[Skylandman]

Do you have the numbers for the whole USA?

[brooklynprospect]

Do you have the numbers for the whole USA?

you know I do...

2003 Total US Legal Immigration

I dropped all countries that sent less than 1000 people.

Total 703,542

Mexico 115,585
India 50,228
Philippines 45,250
China, People's Republic 40,568
El Salvador 28,231
Dominican Republic 26,159
Vietnam 22,087
Colombia 14,720
Guatemala 14,386
Russia 13,935
Jamaica 13,347
Korea 12,382
Haiti 12,293
Ukraine 11,633
Canada 11,350
Poland 10,510

United Kingdom 9,527
Pakistan 9,415
Peru 9,409
Cuba 9,262
Nigeria 7,872
Iran 7,230
Ecuador 7,066
Taiwan 6,917
Guyana 6,809
Ethiopia 6,635
Brazil 6,331
Bosnia-Herzegovina 6,155
Japan 5,971
Germany 5,064
Honduras 4,645
Bangladesh 4,616
Ghana 4,410
Trinidad & Tobago 4,138
Nicaragua 4,094
Venezuela 4,018
Bulgaria 3,825
Romania 3,655
Hong Kong 3,574
Albania 3,362
Egypt 3,348
Kenya 3,209
Morocco 3,137
Argentina 3,129
Thailand 3,126
Turkey 3,029
Serbia and Montenegro 2,994
Lebanon 2,956
Jordan 2,927
Israel 2,741
Iraq 2,450
Somalia 2,444
France 2,375
Lithuania 2,266
Cambodia 2,263
South Africa 2,210
Nepal 2,095
Syria 1,938
Sudan 1,883
Belarus 1,858
Australia 1,836
Indonesia 1,805
Liberia 1,766
Kazakhstan 1,740
Italy 1,644
Sierra Leone 1,492
Uzbekistan 1,445
Yemen 1,382
Bolivia 1,376
Chile 1,310
Armenia 1,287
Afghanistan 1,252
Sri Lanka 1,246
Costa Rica 1,246
Malaysia 1,200
Unknown 1,198
Burma 1,193
Togo 1,187
Panama 1,164
Croatia 1,153
Moldova 1,151
Fiji 1,095
Hungary 1,021

[Skylandman]

Thanks!!!

I´ll post the data for Spain in a while.

[km-sh]

it's a nice job

[brooklynprospect]

if anyone wants to, feel free to repost my data on SSP. That site doesn't allow me to register for some reason (how can I be banned without ever having registered??)

[km-sh]

so many indian and Philippines in the USA

[Skylandman]

Immigration numbers for Spain from January 2004 to December 2004.

TOTAL NUMBER: 657174 in 2004

Main Nationalities:

Romania: 106340
Morocco: 84844
UK: 49940
Bolivia: 44455
China: 28802
Bulgary: 21456
Argentina: 21049
Colombia: 20006
Italy : 17370
Brazil: 16252
Ecuador : 16102
Peru: 15754
Germany :14650
Ucraine: 12352
Uruguay: 10649
Paraguay: 10476
France: 10042
Venezuela :9982
Portugal: 9881
Philippines : 8512
Pakistan: 8511
Dominican Rep. :8427
Poland: 8237
Senegal: 7869
Russia: 7491
Chile: 7319
Nigeria: 6561
Argelia: 6375
Netherlands: 5447
Cuba: 4926
Mexico: 4694
India: 3592
USA: 3392
Lithuania: 3118
Ghana: 2985
Moldova: 2812
Belgium: 2623
Gambia: 2427
Mauritania: 2084
Guinea: 2035
Sweden: 1964
Ireland: 1902
Honduras: 1858
Armenia: 1640
Ecuatorial Guinea: 1258
Switzerland: 1206
Denmark: 1043

[brooklynprospect]

Immigration numbers for Spain from January 2004 to December 2004.

TOTAL NUMBER: 657174 in 2004

Those numbers are incredibly high for a country the size of Spain!! If you don't mind me asking, where did you get them from? I can read Spanish, so Spanish language links would be fine...

[z0rg]

Spain, 1st of January 2005

Main nationalities

Morocco 505.373
Ecuador 491.797
Romania 314.349
Colombia 268.931
UK 224.841
Argentina 151.878
Germany 131.887
Bolivia 96.844
Italy 94.464
Bulgaria 91.339
China 86.681
Peru 84.427
France 76.949
Portugal 65.611
Ukraine 65.096
Dom Rep 56.421
Brazil 53.700
Venez. 48.700
Algeria 45.791
Cuba 44.594
Uruguay 42.062
Poland 35.962
Russia 35.942
Chile 35.579
Nether. 33.544
Pakistan 31.652
Senegal 29.334
Nigeria 26.877
Belgium 26.388
USA 25.576
Mexico 22.762
Philipp. 19.622
India 17.463
Paraguay 16.210
Gambia 15.747
Sweden 15.658
Switz. 14.526
E. Guinea 12.888
Norway 12.444
Lithuania 12.471
Mali 12.058
Ghana 10.428
Maurit. 9.527
Ireland 9.521
Moldavia 9.251
Denmark 8.777
Finnland 8.326
Guinea 7.981
Armenia 7.780
Honduras 6.986
Austria 6.678

EUROPE 1.336.214
AMERICA 1.460.176
AFRICA 705.944
ASIA 186.227
OCEANIA 2.284

Total 3.691.547

@Skylandman, you posted numbers about those who entered only in 2004.

[brooklynprospect]

so many indian and Philippines in the USA

There's a huge number of Chinese as well. NY has 4 chinatowns now (1 in Manhattan, 1 in Queens, and 2 in Brooklyn). The ones in Manhattan and Queens are huge, almost like small cities. LA also has a very large suburban "chinatown" - the San Gabriel Valley. I read that there are something like 600,000 Asians in that area.

[Azn_chi_boi]

I dont know why but I am surprise about India.. a huge part of US Immigration

[Skylandman]

Those numbers are incredibly high for a country the size of Spain!! If you don't mind me asking, where did you get them from? I can read Spanish, so Spanish language links would be fine...


yep i know, Spain alone it´s taken one of every three immigrants coming to the EU, those numbers are already outdated, since the goverment is making an extra process to legalized immigrants and we´ll have a brand new report after it ,so in a couple of months about half more million immigrants will be added.

BTW, it´s taken from the last census :

this is a homemade table by the spanish forumer Aquarius, with the total number of immigrants, and the variation per year and country of origin,

http://img171.echo.cx/img171/3560/inmi2005parte133gl.jpg
http://img171.echo.cx/img171/9090/inmi2005parte232qa.jpg


you can have a look to the press note that the Spanish National Statistics

Institute released a week ago here : http://www.ine.es/prensa/np370.pdf

and you can check the full report here: http://www.ine.es/inebase/cgi/um?M=%2Ft20%2Fe245&O=inebase&N=&L=0

[Petronius]

IMMIGRANT POPULATION INCREASED BY 7% IN PORTUGAL IN 2004


http://www.publico.clix.pt/shownews.asp?id=1222392&idCanal=90


The number of foreign citizens increased by 7% in the year 2004 , going from 446,000 to 464,000, which roughly represent 5% of the population, and about 12% of "active" workers.

The main nationalities include Brazilians (about 100,000), Ukanians (about 70,000), Cape-Verdians (60,000) and Angolans (40,000).

Lisbon has 200,000 legal immigrants (10% of the population), Porto 31,000 (3% of the population)

[brooklynprospect]

yep i know Spain alone it´s taken one of very three immigrants comeing to the EU, those numbers are already outdated, since the goverment is making an extra process to legalized immigrants and we´ll have a brand new report after it ,so in a copule of months about half more million immigrants will be added.

Thanks man. Those immigration numbers are amazing. Spain will become much more vibrant because of all those immigrants I think...

[Petronius]

Thanks man. Those immigration numbers are amazing. Spain will become much more vibrant because of all those immigrants I think...


those people were already living in Spain, they just legalised their situation.

[Skylandman]

dude, shut the fuck off and don´t speak about what you know shit, Do i speak about your country? then why the fucking hell you have to be talking crap about Spain wherever you have the chance? Shut the fuck off and keep on talking all that wonderful shit you talk about your country, but forget about us, you are sick in the head and totally obsessed with Spain so give us a break and stay quite for a while.

[Petronius]

dude, shut the fuck off and don´t speak about what you know shit, Do i speak about your country? then why the fucking hell you have to be talking crap about Spain wherever you have the chance? Shut the fuck off and keep on talking all that wonderful shit you talk about your country, but forget about us, you are sick in the head and totally obsessed with Spain so give us a break and stay quite for a while.

you're insulting me! You certainly have a problem with me... That's what I read on the press.

[DrJoe]

I could only find Toronto from 2001 top countries.

Other Countries - 48,050(I'd like to know what these other countries are)
China - 21,487
India - 17,596
Pakistan - 11,590
Philippines - 6,016
Korea - 4,682
Sri Lanka - 4,277
United Arab Emirates - 3,341
Iran - 2,974
Saudi Arabia - 2,603
Romania - 2,445
Russia - 2,429
Jamaica - 2,336
United States - 1,896

Total - 125,061

REGION
Asia and Pacific - 74,466
Africa and the Middle East - 21,037
Europe and UK - 17,978
South and Central America - 9,561
United States - 1,896
Not stated - 123
Total - 125,061

[brooklynprospect]

I could only find Toronto from 2001 top countries.

Other Countries - 48,050(I'd like to know what these other countries are)
China - 21,487
India - 17,596
Pakistan - 11,590
Philippines - 6,016
Korea - 4,682
Sri Lanka - 4,277
United Arab Emirates - 3,341
Iran - 2,974
Saudi Arabia - 2,603
Romania - 2,445
Russia - 2,429
Jamaica - 2,336
United States - 1,896

Total - 125,061


If those numbers are correct, Toronto seems like it's getting a more diverse and per capita much larger immigration stream than even NY. I haven't been up there in a while. Definitely need to check it out.

btw - being of Indian descent, is there a big Indian/S Asian neighborhood in Toronto? Based on your numbers, there are 30,000 S Asians coming every year, which is a huge number for a city of that size...

[km-sh]

I dont know why but I am surprise about India.. a huge part of US Immigration
you were born in US ,right?

[Booyashako]

@Brooklynprospect: If you ever get a chance to come up to Toronto then check out the Gerrard India Bazaar www.gerrardindianbazaar.com

Exerpt: "Gerrard India Bazaar is the largest marketing place of South Asian goods and services in North America. With over 100 shops and restaurants which represent regional diversities of South Asian culture, food, music and products, this slice of the Indian subcontinent offers a wide selection of services and products exhibited in an exotic display of sights, sounds, tastes and aromas. The array of merchandise available here helps South Asians maintain ancient cultural and religious traditions, and keep in touch with the contemporary lifestyle of the Subcontinent."

[KGB]

"If those numbers are correct, Toronto seems like it's getting a more diverse and per capita much larger immigration stream than even NY."

Not just per capita, but also in actual numbers as well recently.

And remember, a Cdn CMA is a much smaller deliniation than an American "metro". Plus, Toronto city-proper gets a lot of them....especially in diverse amounts...the burbs get large quantities, but tend to be dominated by one or two countries.


Toronto immigration (CMA)

1995 95,252
1996 97,235
1997 96,540
1998 73,560
1999 84,476
2000 110,069
2001 125,114
2002 111,580






KGB

[Azn_chi_boi]

you were born in US ,right?

Yes..

"United States - 1,896"(in the toronto from top 2001)

most of those people probably live in largest city in the US near Toronto, after the 9/11 attacks...and wanted to get out of US

[smussuw]

Can I know why students are included in the immigration numbers? Because I see the UAE has 40 something which are abviiously bachelor students.

[brooklynprospect]

Not just per capita, but also in actual numbers as well recently.

Well in all fairness NY and Toronto get an approximately equal number of immigrants. NY got 115,000 in 2003 for example (not an unusually high year).

And Looking at the numbers, our largest sender country was the Dominican Republic, with (what was it) 16,000 people. The next largest was India, with under 10,000. Toronto's largest groups were coming in at 21,000 and 17,000, with a similar number of overall immigrants. So in a sense, it would seem like NY's immigration is actually more balanced and more diverse. Only that on a per capita basis, NY gets MUCH fewer immigrants than Toronto.

Balancing that out though, is that I think our recent mass immigration started considerably sooner than Canada's - back in the 1970s. So we had more time to build up total immigrant numbers. For example, the NY metro has a lot more Asian residents than the Toronto metro, even though Toronto is getting more new ones coming in each year.

[DrJoe]

^ well you should keep in my mind that there was also that 48,000 in Toronto that didnt even have a country listed.

[rocky]

spains let immigrants flood them to compensate their horrible demography.

[brooklynprospect]

^ well you should keep in my mind that there was also that 48,000 in Toronto that didnt even have a country listed.

My point was that, on very quick inspection, the top 3 countries of origin in Toronto account for a significantly higher share of total immigration there than the top 3 countries of origin in NY do for total NY immigration.

In any case, Toronto gets considerably more per capita these days. If the city keeps up those numbers, in 20 years it will be far more diverse per capita than NY, LA or probably any city in the world

[Rent]

australians arnt going anywhere :D !! (good)

[willo]

you're insulting me! You certainly have a problem with me... That's what I read on the press.


what you read is that spanish goverment is legalizing 500.000 illegal inmigrants, so they''ll turn into legal ones

[KGB]

"And Looking at the numbers, our largest sender country was the Dominican Republic, with (what was it) 16,000 people. The next largest was India, with under 10,000. Toronto's largest groups were coming in at 21,000 and 17,000, with a similar number of overall immigrants. So in a sense, it would seem like NY's immigration is actually more balanced and more diverse. Only that on a per capita basis, NY gets MUCH fewer immigrants than Toronto."


I think you are splitting hairs...I don't see a major difference in the top countries...and you don't base it on 2 countries anyway. And the New York Metro is drawing it's numbers from a larger area. You will find Toronto's CMA numbers confine almost all immigrants to Toronto, Mississauga, Brampton, Vaghan, Markham, Richmond Hill....totaling about a 600 sq mile area.









"Balancing that out though, is that I think our recent mass immigration started considerably sooner than Canada's - back in the 1970s. So we had more time to build up total immigrant numbers."


Probably, but Toronto's immigrant influx has been going pretty steady since the 1950's. Back then it was almost all within the city ( 416 )...recently is when the suburbs ( 905 ) has seen the big influx (as well as the inner city).

Remember, Toronto inner city has been growing steady since the 50's, which is when most American inner cities saw their big declines begin. In the early 50's, Toronto was 1.1 million...it's now over 2.5 million...more than doubled in population...all attributed to immigrants.







"If the city keeps up those numbers, in 20 years it will be far more diverse per capita than NY, LA or probably any city in the world"


I think the point we are trying to get across...is that it already is. The only catagory NYC has the edge, is in sheer immigrant numbers...Toronto edges it out in every other catagory.






KGB

[brooklynprospect]

I think you are splitting hairs...I don't see a major difference in the top countries... The only catagory NYC has the edge, is in sheer immigrant numbers...Toronto edges it out in every other catagory.

Actually I'm not so sure. I went back and found that the top three countries of origin account for 41% of all immigrants to Toronto (2001), and 31% of all immigrants to NY (2003).

The top 10 countries of origin acount for 62% of all immigrants to Toronto, and 46% of all immigrants to NY.

Also, looking at http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo53c.htm, I found that 37% of Toronto's population (1.7 million out of 4.6 million) were visible minorities in 2001.

According to the 2000 US census, the New York PMSA (9.3 million, and comprising the core of the total metro area) was more than 60% non-white, or as you say, visible minority.

Here are the actual numbers:

New York, NY PMSA - 2000 Census

Total Population : 9,314,235
Non-Hispanic Black : 2,118,957
Non-Hispanic Asian: 838,034
Hispanic: 2,339,836

Non-Hispanic White: 3,684,669

So NY is no slouch, and is currently ahead of Toronto in immigrant diversity and visible minority percentage.

[KGB]

"Actually I'm not so sure. I went back and found that the top three countries of origin account for 41% of all immigrants to Toronto (2001), and 31% of all immigrants to NY (2003). The top 10 countries of origin acount for 62% of all immigrants to Toronto, and 46% of all immigrants to NY."


I don't see how this makes a decernable difference at all...not just because it's for one year (and the popular countries shift change year to year).









"Also, looking at http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo53c.htm, I found that 37% of Toronto's population (1.7 million out of 4.6 million) were visible minorities in 2001."


Well, for one thing, I don't really care about the suburbs...it's the inner city where the big multicultural experience plays itself out in a tangeble way.

But most importantly, the colour of your skin is not even something that should matter. I can't tell you often I have to cringe every time an American wanks off black/white/hispanic/asian numbers. I don't evaluate who you are, and what makes you unique or diverse by the colour of your skin.








"So NY is no slouch"

I would never imply it was or over-rate NYC in this regard.






"and is currently ahead of Toronto in immigrant diversity and visible minority percentage."


I don't think so....you can't judge by just one year anyway...and skin colour is pointless....Toronto has less "black" skinned people, but they are mostly immigrants and from culturally diverse backgrounds....A lot of NYC blacks will be your standard multi-generational "American" people, that have a lot more in common with "white" New Yorkers, as opposed to an african or caribean black in Toronto.

And Toronto has no cultural group that even remotely dominates....and all differences and cultures are celebrated much more openly. Toronto is just a more noticeable cornucopia of mixed culture on an on-the-street experience.







KGB

[brooklynprospect]

I can't tell you often I have to cringe every time an American wanks off black/white/hispanic/asian numbers. A lot of NYC blacks will be your standard multi-generational "American" people, that have a lot more in common with "white" New Yorkers, as opposed to an african or caribean black in Toronto.

If you don't think African-Americans have a unique and impactful culture, well there's nothing I can do. Actually I can bring up that hip hop fashion, and music which is sweeping the globe, and most certainly doesn't come from white Americans. Not to mention other contributions like jazz, blues, R&B, etc. In fact, African-Americans contributed 100 times more to global culture than all of Canada's visible minorities combined. Actually they contributed far more than all of Canada, if you want to press the point.

Go to Harlem, the South Bronx, a big chunk of Brooklyn and tell me you don't feel a different culture from midtown manhattan or suburban Long Island.

Other than African Americans, the GREAT MAJORITY of our minority population are either immigrants or their children (including myself - an immigrant).

So tell me again how we're not more diverse? This may change in 2025, but I'm talking about right now.

[brooklynprospect]

btw - NY has tons of Carib immigrants - I think more than Toronto, and only rivalled by London. People don't realize because just by looking at a person, it's often impossible to say if he's African American or West Indian.

Same goes for Carib Indian and Indian Indian. NY has a very large Guyanese Indian community, but most people don't know, because they assume those people are from India or Pakistan.

[KGB]

"If you don't think African-Americans have a unique and impactful culture, well there's nothing I can do."


Well, nobody is saying all american-born people are clones, or that there isn't a black-american culture. But the differences are very superficial usually...fashion and other trends start all over, and are something that trancends culture.






"Go to Harlem, the South Bronx, a big chunk of Brooklyn and tell me you don't feel a different culture from midtown manhattan or suburban Long Island."


I have...and I'd hardly call them bastions of multiculturalism. And lets not forget WHY black americans have eeked out a different approach to some things...racism is the only thing that predicated blacks evolving different fashion, etc. And that's the major difference between Toronto and American cities as far as multiculturalism goes...assimilation and segrigation because of racial tensions has been going on for a long time.

I just don't look at raw data...you have to look at the way things work on a more tangible, organic level.










"African-Americans contributed 100 times more to global culture than all of Canada's visible minorities combined. Actually they contributed far more than all of Canada, if you want to press the point."


Well, I don't recall being interested in pressing any points that let us degrade the topic to such lows...congrats. no wait...isn't it like A THOUSAND TIMES MORE??? he he

Yea...canada's such a nasty place when it comes to tolerance...a real big black mark on the world in this area.






KGB

[brooklynprospect]

Well, nobody is saying all american-born people are clones, or that there isn't a black-american culture. But the differences are very superficial usually...

If you believe that the differences are "very superficial", you just don't understand American culture. Period. In my own experience, Asian immigrants who came here when they were very young adhere far more to white-American culture than a 10th generation African-American might.

And as for African-Americans contributing more to world culture than all of Canada, firstly, that's just true. And secondly, it was meant to show that they do in fact have a very unique and globally influential culture. Not something to be brushed off by saying "well black people in America don't count toward diversity".

Regarding racial tolerance, that's quite a different thing from diversity. Iceland might for all I know be more racially tolerant than LA county, but that doesn't make Iceland more diverse. Racial tolerance is perhaps something saved for another thread. As is immigrant opportunity - my parents know a bunch of people who immigrated to Toronto, and all of them want to move to America.

[brooklynprospect]

I don't evaluate who you are, and what makes you unique or diverse by the colour of your skin.

Well in that case, why do you even care about immigration? A white Canadian might have more interests and personality traits in common with his Chinese neighbor than with his white Canadian neighbor. Ultimately, true diversity is a very individual thing. If you throw out race, why do you include national background?

And in the American context, race is closely linked with national background, just because the vast majority of Indian, Chinese, Haitian, Columbian, and even Mexican Americans are 1st or 2nd generation. Go back to 1960, and America was a black and white country, with a small regionalized Latino minority, and an even smaller Asian one.

[KGB]

"And as for African-Americans contributing more to world culture than all of Canada, firstly, that's just true. "


Yea...keep bringing out this kind on nonsense...you are either just an incredible ass...or your 12 years old. Did you here that stat repeated on Fox news or something? Or is that just your esteemed opinion?







"Not something to be brushed off by saying "well black people in America don't count toward diversity". "


Dude...try and pay attention for a moment....nobody is brushing anybody off...the point is that there is much racial tensions in the USA...always has been...perhaps being a fool and an American, this point is probably completely lost on you....when you treat people so badly...for such a long time, then yea...they tend to act a bit different to the ones doing the marginalizing.

But the main point I was making, was that I see just as much, if not more diversity amongst "white" people as I do anyone else. But that's in Toronto, where thank god, we don't have many people like you, and the ones that we do have, aren't taken seriously.

People aren't segregated to their little areas because of racism, so they can develope such deep and meaningful cultural habits like wearing your pants around your knees. Americans in general, and New Yorkers to a lesser degree, are heavily affected by racism, segrigation, and assimilation.

That's why Toronto is definetely more diverse in practice than New York City. I've experienced both, and the difference is quite noticeable.

Toronto and NYC both have the raw materials...but it's Toronto that uses them better.






KGB

[brooklynprospect]

the point is that there is much racial tensions in the USA...always has been...

People aren't segregated to their little areas because of racism, so they can develope such deep and meaningful cultural habits like wearing your pants around your knees.

So African-Americans don't contribute to NY's diversity because of racism?

Speaking of racism, if you think African-Americans haven't developed "meaningful cultural habits" beyond "wearing your pants around your knees", I can see that you at least are a racist dolt who isn't worth talking to.

You calling someone else racist. Yeah right. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black

[brooklynprospect]

Anyway I noticed some people on this forum seem very focused on urban multiculturalism and mixed neighborhoods.

But in my own experience, it's really interesting to visit for instance Flushing or Manhattan Chinatown, and literally feel like I'm in a medium-sized Chinese city. Or Brighton Beach, with it's hundreds of Russian business, beachside cafes serving Russian food and beer, Russian families lazing on the sand, and the sound of the Russian language everywhere. Even the waiters trying to lure people into the cafes try to do so in Russian.

On the other hand, most of Queens is very mixed. But because of that, for me at least, it's just not as fun. I don't get that "travelling to another country without leaving NY" kind of feeling. Sociologically I see the benefits to mixed neighborhoods. But purely as an individual, it's really interesting to visit Chinatown, Brighton Beach, or Spanish Harlem. Anyway by the 2nd or 3rd generation, things get more mixed.

And suburban immigration can be interesting in its own right. In LA, there's virtually an alternate reality suburban Korea, with low-density, vaguely medit architecture, palm trees, and Korean signs continuing for miles, hosting thousands of Korean shops, restaurants, cafes, bars, nightclubs, and even entire enclosed malls, complete with Korean-themed foodcourts. It's Korean, but its also something you'd never find in Korea. Same goes for Edison, NJ, which is now the biggest Indian neighborhood in America (most Indians coming to the NY metro head straight for NJ).

And if I want to see other non-Chinese, non-Russian, or non-Indian people, it's not too hard. I take the subway a few stops in NY, or drive for 15 minutes in LA, and I'm in a completely different world. Mixed neighborhoods, American neighborhoods, ethnic neighborhoods. Whatever I want.

[KGB]

"So African-Americans don't contribute to NY's diversity because of racism? "


I never said they don't...everyone contributes...it just doesn't matter what colour your skin is.







"I can see that you at least are a racist dolt who isn't worth talking to. "

So, not only can't you comprehend what I'm saying...now I'm the racist. ha ha ha








"You calling someone else racist. Yeah right. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black"


I didn't call "someone" a racist...I pointed out the history of racism and how it relates to those affected. That doesn't make me a racist.







"Sociologically I see the benefits to mixed neighborhoods. But purely as an individual, it's really interesting to visit Chinatown, Brighton Beach, or Spanish Harlem."


I agree...I like the idea of culturally dominate nabes, where you really get a feeling of being in a foreign country...but I make a distinction between cultural nabes that are that way because of racism or marginalization. I also like a nabe that mixes it all up, while everybody still retaining their cultural differences...and getting along doing it.

Both New York and Toronto offer this in a big way...in a fairly compact area that a person can experience in a daily, practical sense. But because of immigrant percentage differences, segregation, racial tension and assimilation differences, Toronto just seems to do that a little better than NYC.








"Anyway by the 2nd or 3rd generation, things get more mixed."

Retention of origional culture is very high in Toronto...the main reason being that 1st generation immigrants make up a very high percentage of the overall population...about 60% of the population is a 1st generation immigrant ( 15 years or older)....more than 20% is a 2nd gen immigrant. So, we are talking 80% of the population is a 1st or 2nd generation immigrant...and from a very wide selection of ethnic/cultural backgrounds. So, the pressure to assimilate is very low, as there really isn't anything to assimilate to....less than 20% of the population is 3rd generation Cdn born.

The other major reason, is that cultural differences in Toronto is not a fact of life people have to just live with somehow the best they can...it's something that is both officially and casually embraced in a positive way...you are actually encouraged to add your particular cultural uniqueness to make the city a better place to live.





KGB

[brooklynprospect]

That doesn't make me a racist.

Wait, then you didn't say "so they [black Americans] can develope such deep and meaningful cultural habits like wearing your pants around your knees. "? Funny, that's a quote from one of your posts...

If you think that the African-American contribution to global culture consists of wearing pants around your knees and other trivial stuff like that, not only are you a racist, but also an uninformed idiot. How about jazz, blues, rocknroll, hip hop, techno, much of modern colloquial English and global street fashion?

The funny thing is how you condemn all of a country of 290 million people for racism, and then yourself make an idiot racist remark, in the same post. I'm assuming not all Canadians are like you.

I see we aren't going to get along until I wholeheartedly agree that Toronto is the bestest in everything, and that America is a racist hellhole with fashion-challenged black people.

[brooklynprospect]

"So African-Americans don't contribute to NY's diversity because of racism? "

I never said they don't...everyone contributes...it just doesn't matter what colour your skin is.

Then why do you go on and on about immigration to Toronto? I'll say it again - You can have more interests and personality traits in common (ie less diversity is involved) with a Chinese, Russian or Columbian national than with a 5th generation Canadian. Don't give me "everyone contributes equally to diversity" and then say "Toronto is the most diverse city in the world because of all the nationalities represented".

If everyone contributes equally to diversity, then Warsaw or Seoul are just as diverse as NY and Toronto. Which is an interesting argument, but one that obviously conflicts with your Toronto is the bestest in diversity claim.

[KGB]

"Wait, then you didn't say "so they [black Americans] can develope such deep and meaningful cultural habits like wearing your pants around your knees. "? Funny, that's a quote from one of your posts..."


Yes I did say that...but I was refering to making a distinction of fads and trends.








"not only are you a racist, but also an uninformed idiot."


Uh hmm. Yes, let's just sum it up that way...I'm an idiotic, uniformed racist then. And perhaps you are a malcontented, american 12 year old twit...cause this is the kind of immature conversation I used to hear in 5th grade recess.






"The funny thing is how you condemn all of a country of 290 million people for racism, and then yourself make an idiot racist remark, in the same post. I'm assuming not all Canadians are like you."


Ooooo....you're on a roll...is there more?







"I see we aren't going to get along until I wholeheartedly agree that Toronto is the bestest in everything, and that America is a racist hellhole with fashion-challenged black people."


.....I guess there is. LOL

No, you and I aren't going to get along...and not for those reasons.










"If everyone contributes equally to diversity, then Warsaw or Seoul are just as diverse as NY and Toronto. "


I see we will have to wean you off your warped sense of logic carefully. Everyone contributes...but if everyone contributes the same thing, then there is still culture...it just isn't diverse. Ding Ding






KGB

KGB

[brooklynprospect]

"Well, nobody is saying all american-born people are clones, or that there isn't a black-american culture. But the differences are very superficial usually...fashion and other trends start all over, and are something that trancends culture."

"People aren't segregated to their little areas because of racism [in Canada], so they can develope such deep and meaningful cultural habits like wearing your pants around your knees [African-Americans] ."

Who are you trying to fool? Very cheap shots. African-American contributions are "fashion" and "trends", not culture. A sarcastic "so they can develop deep and meaningful cultural habits" followed by a real gem of an example - "like wearing your pants around your knees".

Jazz is superficial? It's a trend? Hip Hop has been around for 25 years. It's a fad? Change = fad? How about architecture? It's changed tremendously and continuously over the past 100 years. Does that take it out of the realm of culture and make it a fad?

Here are another set of gems. First question and answer:

"So African-Americans don't contribute to NY's diversity because of racism?

I never said they don't ...everyone contributes [to diversity]"

but later:

"Everyone contributes...but if everyone contributes the same thing, then there is still culture...it just isn't diverse"

So everyone contributes to diversity... wait... no... everyone contributes to divesity unless they don't, in which case they contribute to culture.



Why don't you call me 12 years old a few more times? It might help distract from your half-ass reasoning and cheap shots at black Americans.

[oshkeoto]

Yeah, KGB, this conversation has gotten a little off track. Your point about blacks and whites sometimes sharing the same culture in America is well taken, but also a very small part of the story. The fact is that most blacks in America live in black neighborhoods, and that black American culture--distinct from white American culture or African culture--has been developing independently for centuries. Believe me, within my own school there are huge cultural differences between blacks and whites. Not that every black is a member of "black culture" and vice-versa, but a distinction can definitely be made.

And, that being said, our home-grown diversity of culture is quite a strength. The combination of black music and Jewish music gave us the distinctly American Gershwin, etc, etc. Whatever our other faults, American culture has been more influential on the rest of the world than that of any other nation, and it could be argued that black Americans--not black immigrants--influenced American culture more than any other ethnic group in this country.

So, in conclusion, 1) to say that black and white American culture is the same with superficial differences is simply untrue, and 2) possibly we should be looking into the kinds of diversity that don't involve immigration.

[Robert Stark]

are these epodunk?

[OMH]

"If you don't think African-Americans have a unique and impactful culture, well there's nothing I can do."


Well, nobody is saying all american-born people are clones, or that there isn't a black-american culture. But the differences are very superficial usually...fashion and other trends start all over, and are something that trancends culture.






"Go to Harlem, the South Bronx, a big chunk of Brooklyn and tell me you don't feel a different culture from midtown manhattan or suburban Long Island."


I have...and I'd hardly call them bastions of multiculturalism. And lets not forget WHY black americans have eeked out a different approach to some things...racism is the only thing that predicated blacks evolving different fashion, etc. And that's the major difference between Toronto and American cities as far as multiculturalism goes...assimilation and segrigation because of racial tensions has been going on for a long time.

I just don't look at raw data...you have to look at the way things work on a more tangible, organic level.










"African-Americans contributed 100 times more to global culture than all of Canada's visible minorities combined. Actually they contributed far more than all of Canada, if you want to press the point."


Well, I don't recall being interested in pressing any points that let us degrade the topic to such lows...congrats. no wait...isn't it like A THOUSAND TIMES MORE??? he he

Yea...canada's such a nasty place when it comes to tolerance...a real big black mark on the world in this area.






KGB
man,you Canadians are annoying.sure canada isn't a bad country,but don't do like canda has contributed much to the world,i dont even know if therre ever was something invented in Canada!

[10ROT]

Bumping old threads is rude. :evil:

[Obscene]

Sweden, total.
2007:

95 750 (new record)
42% of these are non-european citizens.

[the spliff fairy]

^ Ive heard over a third of Stockholmers are foreign born too.
I wish London had stats on these, but the large majority of migrants are unregistered and practicing their EU freedom of abode, of course another chunk being illegal. Since 2001 estimates put it over a million foreign born have come into London.

Throughout the 1990s UK received the most asylum seekers and applications, but the govt has cut down on it making it harder to get in. Ive heard France and then Spain now receive the largest numbers a year.

[Obscene]

^ Ive heard over a third of Stockholmers are foreign born too.
.

No, i'd say about 21% are born outside of Sweden. But If you include second generation immigrants with atleast one parent born outside of sweden it's more like 27, 28%.

In Gothenburg it's about the same, and in Malmö it's something like 10% higher.

[sprtsluvr8]

Yeah, KGB, this conversation has gotten a little off track. Your point about blacks and whites sometimes sharing the same culture in America is well taken, but also a very small part of the story. The fact is that most blacks in America live in black neighborhoods, and that black American culture--distinct from white American culture or African culture--has been developing independently for centuries. Believe me, within my own school there are huge cultural differences between blacks and whites. Not that every black is a member of "black culture" and vice-versa, but a distinction can definitely be made.

And, that being said, our home-grown diversity of culture is quite a strength. The combination of black music and Jewish music gave us the distinctly American Gershwin, etc, etc. Whatever our other faults, American culture has been more influential on the rest of the world than that of any other nation, and it could be argued that black Americans--not black immigrants--influenced American culture more than any other ethnic group in this country.

So, in conclusion, 1) to say that black and white American culture is the same with superficial differences is simply untrue, and 2) possibly we should be looking into the kinds of diversity that don't involve immigration.

It's very easy and quite common for someone like KGB to analyze American cities and the social issues that have plagued our society. Usually this results in a stereotypical assessment of Americans based on media information and historical facts from history class. The moment a U.S. resident mentions "race" we are pegged as racist morons living in segregated communities...and we haven't evolved enough to recognize the beauty ofreal multicultural cities, like Toronto.

First of all, let me just say that I have never met a Canadian that I didn't like. I've been acquainted with many citizens of Canada through a visting faculty program and also in my social life, and I have always found a very consistently high level of courtesy, respect, tolerance, etc. among Canadians. The common negative trait that I have encountered is a propensity to share harsh criticisms of U.S. cities and culture and how they compare to their counterparts in Canada. But even as superior as Canadian society is purported to be, they never end up returning there to live. I haven't figured out this phenomenon as of yet, but I laugh about it with a couple of Canadian friends.

The current segregation in American society is by choice...much as it is in the traditional Korean, Italian, and Chinese neighborhoods of Toronto and other world cities. Of course the history of forced segregation does exist and there are still WAY too many intolerant and/or ignorant Americans...but most of us aren't as focused on skin color as we are accused of being. As in any multicultural society there are sometimes problems in the U.S. concerning race relations, but it's easy to look down from your "white" city and criticize...

[Robert Stark]

2003 Metro Miami Legal Immigration.

Included Miami, Ft Lauderdale, and West Palm Beach-Boca Raton PSMAs

Total: 36594

Cuba: 5661
Haiti: 4283
Colombia: 4220
Jamaica: 3212
Peru: 1923
Venezuela: 1772
Dominican Republic: 1215
Nicaragua: 1182
Brazil: 1080
Argentina: 1010


Honduras: 742
Ecuador: 729
Mexico: 653
Philippines: 525
Trinidad & Tobago: 511
India: 420
Canada: 406
Guatemala: 349
El Salvador: 340
United Kingdom: 333
China, People's Republic: 296
Chile: 294
Russia: 284
Guyana: 260
Israel: 228
Bahamas, The: 222


for the nations most latino city I'm surpirsed Mexico is so low.