Why European Highways are much better than American ones??

[gronier]

It is true that my country has the widest and longest highway system in the whole world. But to tell you the truth, the overall quality of the highway system is really bad, the pavement in in bad condition, and an urgent renovation is needed right now!!!!
Here in Skyscrapercity I have seen many pictures of European highways and they look much better than American Highways, because they are well maintained and it should be a pleasure to drive in highways like those, and not in the old American interstate System, because their glory days I think are over while other countries like the European ones are rebuilding their highways and making a country much richer look like underdeveloped.
The thing is that I love asphalt highways and here in the US it's not very used in the Highways unfortunately.

I really hope the Congress passes the Highway Bill that would rebuild all the Highway System and give this great nation the highways that it deserves!!.

[Facial]

Well, the thing is all about design and policy. I, for one, know that the German Autobahn is twice as thick as the average American freeway.

[gronier]

I would love to have highways like this ones in the Midwest (jut look at the quality of the pavement!!):

I just simply love the Autostrada!!
http://www.stradeeautostrade.it/articoli/2004/quattro/16-19%20osservatorio%20anas%204/foto/foto2.jpg
http://tinypic.com/1e719y
http://www.pzm.pl/images/autostrada.jpg
http://www.southbalticarc.pl/pl/gfx/gal_bei_guetzkow.jpg

Spain:
http://home.jtan.com/~ptunner/es/img/es101.jpg
http://home.jtan.com/~ptunner/es/img/es106.jpg
http://www.giasa.com/inetfiles/fotografias/CJB0010OEJ0/2002/2/227-2799_IMG.JPG
http://www.ecosur.net/Automovil/autovia.jpg

[earthJoker]

Not all european highways look like that. But I think the new ones are builded on a very high quality level.

[Jonesy55]

Well, Americans don't pay as much tax as us, so I guess the things that are paid for out of tax money are sometimes going to have to make do with second best.

I found that some of the US highways were in quite bad condition when I visited, especially in the south. In terms of infrastructure generally, Americans seem to want something that works ok at minimum cost even if it's not perfect and may look a bit scruffy while many European countries seem happy to pay the extra money for a premium product.

The US is also much less densely populated so they probably have more 'road miles per taxpayer' so this must stretch funding too.

[eddyk]

Im with Jonesy....makes sense

http://www.europarl.eu.int/dg3/sdp/tribeur/irl/motorway.jpg


US Unpaved Highways 2,213,550 km
UK Unpaved Highways 0 km
GER Unpaved Highways 0km

Dont have time to check the rest of Europe...

I got those numbers off here http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

[mlm]

Another thing that makes many European highways look good, is the fact that many places here the new roads are very well intergrated in the landscape. Atleast here in Denmark, they would never make an "elevated highway" on some pillars, but instead move tons of sand to make it look "good". I know this ain't the case for ALL highways in Europe, but in general I agree that many looks better than their American counterparts.

[Lee]

Money isn't the problem at all. The US spends huge amounts on infrastructure each year, and just got through passing a $300 billion transportation bill to revamp some of the old highways built in the 1950's, like the ones Jonesy mentioned "in the South," although I though I-10 was in excellent condition, except near New Orleans!

[Jonesy55]

Money isn't the problem at all. The US spends huge amounts on infrastructure each year, and just got through passing a $300 billion transportation bill to revamp some of the old highways built in the 1950's, like the ones Jonesy mentioned "in the South," although I though I-10 was in excellent condition, except near New Orleans!

Apart from roads in the middle of nowhere a hundred miles from the nearest town which I can understand not being maintained very well, the worst one I remember was the interstate going right across tennessee from knoxville through to nashville then memphis. It wasn't full of potholes or anything but it was made of loads of concrete slabs lying next to each other so when you drive on it you get a 'bump.. bump.. bump.. bump' every twenty metres or so when you drive over the join, very annoying.

[Giorgio]

i think europes highways are better due to there youth

Athens:

http://img264.echo.cx/img264/4126/10mayatodosotep0kk.jpg

http://img263.echo.cx/img263/8523/10mayatodosrafinap4ja.jpg

http://img261.echo.cx/img261/2933/10mayatodoskantzasp7vx.jpg

[oogabooga]

i think europes highways are better due to there youth

Athens:

http://img264.echo.cx/img264/4126/10mayatodosotep0kk.jpg

http://img263.echo.cx/img263/8523/10mayatodosrafinap4ja.jpg

http://img261.echo.cx/img261/2933/10mayatodoskantzasp7vx.jpg

That last one looks like the highway ramp from simcity 4 :eek:

[Giorgio]

That last one looks like the highway ramp from simcity 4

lol. very funny.....your too true...too bad sim city 4 is broken :(

[spyguy]

It wasn't full of potholes or anything but it was made of loads of concrete slabs lying next to each other so when you drive on it you get a 'bump.. bump.. bump.. bump' every twenty metres or so when you drive over the join, very annoying.

Wait, was the whole thing made of concrete or just some parts? If it's only a few parts then that's most likely a rumble strip which is meant to alert sleepy drivers of things like toll booths and merging lanes.

But you have to remember, the US highway system dates back to Truman and started in the 1950s with Eisenhower and only "finished" in the 1990s. The problem is that you can't expect America to fix all the roadways at once, for obvious reasons like money and traffic problems. So once construction finishes on a highway, they move to the next few highways and by that time the first highway needs to be repaved or fixed. It's a constant battle, especially on high volume highways.

The main obstacle is money of course. Every state has its problems with paying for the highway system. Americans (generally) hate the word "tax" and so states have to think of creative ways to pay for highway projects.

So overall I think it's unrealistic to think that every highway could be in tip-top shape. :bash:

[Giorgio]

Highways can look messy IMO Freeways however cant...

[EarlyBird]

Wait, was the whole thing made of concrete or just some parts? If it's only a few parts then that's most likely a rumble strip which is meant to alert sleepy drivers of things like toll booths and merging lanes.

Over here these "rumble strips" are made using the same stuff used to paint the road lines. They're painted yellow and get closer as you get nearer to the junction. I too, though, have noticed the way many US highways are made using blocks of concrete that bump when you cross the join.

But you have to remember, the US highway system dates back to Truman and started in the 1950s with Eisenhower and only "finished" in the 1990s. The problem is that you can't expect America to fix all the roadways at once, for obvious reasons like money and traffic problems. So once construction finishes on a highway, they move to the next few highways and by that time the first highway needs to be repaved or fixed. It's a constant battle, especially on high volume highways.

The UK motorway network was started in the 1950s too. New ones are built when the demand is there. I think our entire network is now paved with tarmac so you can't use the excuse of time and money. It's a constant battle to maintain them over here too, especially on London's ring road which is the busiest in the world.

[CharlieP]

Over here these "rumble strips" are made using the same stuff used to paint the road lines. They're painted yellow and get closer as you get nearer to the junction. I too, though, have noticed the way many US highways are made using blocks of concrete that bump when you cross the join.

The UK motorway network was started in the 1950s too. New ones are built when the demand is there. I think our entire network is now paved with tarmac so you can't use the excuse of time and money. It's a constant battle to maintain them over here too, especially on London's ring road which is the busiest in the world.

We have motorways made of concrete in the UK too - I remember the M11 being a good example a few years ago of the bump... bump... bump... syndrome, though I think it's been resurfaced in the last five years as I drove down to Chelmsford on Boxing Day and don't remember it being concrete blocks...

[DrJoe]

I think it depends on the state. Like Texas probably has better freeways than most of Europe.

Look at this construction for instance, this alone probably blows Europe out of the water.
http://www.houstonfreeways.com/modern/images/dallas_high_five/high_five_2A_2004-05-23_looking_south_750.jpg

http://www.houstonfreeways.com/modern/images/dallas_high_five/high_five_B_2003-12-12_1024.jpg

http://www.houstonfreeways.com/modern/images/dallas_high_five/h5-122503_013.jpg

Styled pillars
http://www.texasfreeway.com/Dallas/construction/high_five/images2004-06-23/ViewLookingNE-onRampFromSBUS75toWBIH635.jpg

http://www.houstonfreeways.com/modern/images/dallas_high_five/high_five_08A_looking_e_eb_frontage_2004-04-25%20copy.jpg

http://www.houstonfreeways.com/modern/images/dallas_high_five/high_five_16A_2004-05-23_looking__NW_repaired_850.jpg

[eddyk]

The pillars are great....nothing else special though!

[DrJoe]

Nothing else special?? Show me a stack this big anywhere in Europe, this is just Texas too, doesnt even take into account the rest of the US.

http://www.houstonfreeways.com/modern/images/dallas_high_five/high_five_8A_2004-05-23_looking_west_850.jpg

http://www.houstonfreeways.com/modern/images/2004-12_dfw_update/high_five_F_2004-12-19_1000.jpg

http://www.houstonfreeways.com/modern/images/2004-12_dfw_update/35e_at_190_A_2004-12-11_1000.jpg

http://www.houstonfreeways.com/modern/images/2004-04-11_high_five_aerial/high_five_20_looking_n_along_75_2005-04-11_20_1000.jpg

[idvd_]

^^ Not it doesn't, junctions in europe are just simpler and better integrated in cities.

Even of those roads you posted, is noticable that road isn't "monolith". I mean you can see these line on road that has to do with conrete. Most highways in Europe are "monolith", (you ve feeling they were built simply with one movement, you cannt notice lanes that were added later)
Poland:
http://www.dycha.siec2000.pl/forum/DSC04773.JPG
http://strony.aster.pl/war/fota/lub.jpg

Greece:
http://www.e-go.gr/filesystem/images/20040524/medium/pegasus_m_2a_K_Athinon_Lamias.jpg

And German

http://www.tri-c.de/Die_Autobahn/trass15gr.jpg
http://www.autobahn17.de/fotos/bild22/images/RIMG1462.JPG
http://www.autobahn17.de/fotos/bild22/images/RIMG1506.JPG

Indeed, a lot of them are new, but even old highways get renovated so they almost looks like new too

[DrJoe]

^ That is just a normal ass highway, I dont see how it is any better than the US, at all...

[eddyk]

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/cmaqpgs/amaq/i85i285.jpg
http://pictures.flyerlist.org.uk/current/SpaghettiJunction.jpg

Nothing special...see...we have clusters aswell!

[idvd_]

^ That is just a normal ass highway, I dont see how it is any better than the US, at all...

We dont need jumbo bumbo bamba dumbo 20+ lanes highway, lanes aren't measure. It s better because of better quality of road, it s not full like in USA (Europe has much better and active railway system than US). So even if we would have 20 lanes highway it d be better than in US, simply because citizens here pays very high taxes (ecological taxes, oil taxes...), from money of taxes the roads are very well maintenanted.

[King-Tomislav]

http://www.gradimo.hr/img/ArticleImages/2045.jpg

http://www.webgradnja.hr/contentimages/Image/zanimljivosti/autocesta_1.jpg

http://www.embassybh.dk/ambas/en/slikce/autocesta.jpg

http://www.gorskikotar.hr/images/bajer01_jpg.jpg

Croatia

[spyguy]

We dont need jumbo bumbo bamba dumbo 20+ lanes highway, lanes aren't measure. It s better because of better quality of road, it s not full like in USA (Europe has much better and active railway system than US). So even if we would have 20 lanes highway it d be better than in US, simply because citizens here pays very high taxes (ecological taxes, oil taxes...), from money of taxes the roads are very well maintenanted.

Well yeah, there's a difference there then. America has many cars instead of using trains, so it is necessary for large highways rather than better and more extensive railway systems. Plus the highway need to be X amount of lanes wide every X amount of miles so that planes could use the highway as a landing/take off strips in times of emergency.

[idvd_]

^^ Jupp, i am sure if u would pay much higher road/transport/eco/oil taxes that highways will have better quality than now.

[LtBk]

Adding many lanes on congested freeways doesn't solve traffic congestion, improving PT and driving skills does solve it.

[spyguy]

Convincing people to use public transportation and giving them incentives is the only way you will be able to change the public's love of cars. And even then I can't imagine buses and trains going into every suburb- it would ruin existing communities and cost way too much money to be worthwhile.

[idvd_]

Convincing people to use public transportation and giving them incentives is the only way you will be able to change the public's love of cars. And even then I can't imagine buses and trains going into every suburb- it would ruin existing communities and cost way too much money to be worthwhile.

Why not ? Every bigger german city has its s-bahn (suburban railway) and bus stations in every suburbs, and it works perfect :) It s question of implementing it ;)

[falconi]

turkish highway!

http://www.tmb.org.tr/firmalar_img/73/20.jpg

http://www.tmb.org.tr/firmalar_img/73/22.jpg

http://www.dogusinsaat.com.tr/site/projeler/images/Image11662_b.jpg

http://dunyaturk.com/tr21/MehmetK_MehmetK_15072004_Highways_039m.jpg

http://dunyaturk.com/tr01/otoyolx01.jpg

http://www.metis.com.tr/english/projects/metis350s/KZG4.jpg


here are more
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=175187&page=1&pp=20

[pricemazda]

I have to say from my travels I was really surprised at the bad quality and clear underfunding of motorways in the US. I remember seeing billboards with a poster on it covered in band aids and the message read 'this is no way to fix New York States roads'.

Europe's roads generally speaking are of a much higher quality.

[spyguy]

Hmm...I could see both buses and trains being used for developing suburbs, but for existing communities it would be too much hassle with little gain. I'm just imagining it right now in my community; as it is right now, most trains run from the interior of Chicago through different neighborhoods and into suburbs, almost moving in a linear fashion . To imagine the trains then crossing into other towns is kinda scary :) I mean, not only would there be a lot of demolition and diverting of roads and construction but I wonder how the people who spent anywhere from $600,000 to a few million on a home would feel and do in order to stop such programs. So then you go into legal battles and such that make projects more costly and are time consuming. And even if the trains are built, very few people need to go from one suburb to the next. The only reasons would be shopping (you'd need to carry all your bags onto the train) and visiting friends and family (but that is flawed as well because of how spread out the 'burbs are).

But the bus implementation is an easier solution that is somewhat already there but just lacks many stops and stations.

[sbarn]

^^ It really depends on the state. Certain states have relatively high quality roads, such as California, Texas, Nevada (gambling revenues), Georgia-- to name a few. Others, especially those up north with harsher weather, have terrible road qualities.

[pricemazda]

But think of Norway, Iceland, Finland et al, they have pretty harsh weather.

[idvd_]

Hmm...I could see both buses and trains being used for developing suburbs, but for existing communities it would be too much hassle with little gain. I'm just imagining it right now in my community; as it is right now, most trains run from the interior of Chicago through different neighborhoods and into suburbs, almost moving in a linear fashion . To imagine the trains then crossing into other towns is kinda scary :) I mean, not only would there be a lot of demolition and diverting of roads and construction but I wonder how the people who spent anywhere from $600,000 to a few million on a home would feel and do in order to stop such programs. So then you go into legal battles and such that make projects more costly and are time consuming. And even if the trains are built, very few people need to go from one suburb to the next. The only reasons would be shopping (you'd need to carry all your bags onto the train) and visiting friends and family (but that is flawed as well because of how spread out the 'burbs are).

But the bus implementation is an easier solution that is somewhat already there but just lacks many stops and stations.

Now that is understandable. It was mistake of city planers, because in america main idea was that everyone could use cars, to choose their ways in their freedom, in principe it s very cool idea (car driving in US is part of american dream !!), but what ll happen when everyone get a car ? Planers didn't thought about it. In eur. countries train (tram) systems are for decades there, it s typical here, first build a suburban railway line than suburbs around it, or existing suburbs allready have empty gaps or canals for future railway lines there. Everyone knows that trams have very long history in europe so i dont need to write much about it now :) I can maybe say that usage of public transport and cars in europe are really fifty-fifty (i own a car, but i use railway and public transport by far much more than car), while in USA it s higher value for cars.

[spyguy]

Yeah, that's true. In the US, railways were what established major cities while the suburbs were only created around the end of WWII, when Americans were finally able to purchase automobiles and move into more spacious houses (returning GIs + baby boom) instead of cramped apartments, eventually leading to the demise of the American city in the 1950s. Since less and less people were living in the cities at that time, trains were setup for the commuters who'd work in the city in the morning and return home in the suburbs at night.

[eusebius]

Autobahnen in NL:

http://www.burow3.nl/luchtswart/utrecht/image/03.11.586_1.a4.jpg
Utrecht


http://www.classic.archined.nl/news/0203/uitv-necro3.jpg
Den Haag

http://www.leaderplus.nl/Nederlands/gebieden/veluwe/images/HR-OMSLAG%20FOTO.jpg
Arnhem

[asws]

Here in Canada, the freeze thaw tempratures really decimate the roads, and a fresh pavement may last only 4-5 years without it start to crack. It is also expensive to pave all of the land Canada has.

Here is a example of a freshly paved road (Alberta)
http://albertaroads.homestead.com/transcanada/hwy1/0104/11hwy1ab1_0104.jpg

After only about 10-12 years (Alberta)
http://albertaroads.homestead.com/transcanada/hwy1/0803/4hwy1ab1_0803.jpg

As you can see, in Canada, and in the northern US states, it is quite expensive to maintain the roads at 'freshly paven' status, and that is obvously expressed in the quality of the interstates, and the Canadian Major Highways. (we have much smaller population density, and lower taxes)

[CAESARS-PALACe]

In Rome there is this big elevated highway that runs through a part of the city :runaway: , it will be demolished within a few months and replaced with a beautiful urban tunnel :)


Tangenziale Est :

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/a/a20.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/a/a21.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/a/a28.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/b/b09.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/c/c05.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/c/c07.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/c/c11.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/c/c12.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/c/c20.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/c/c28.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/a/a27.jpg


There were some proposals to find another purpose for "the monster", some were quite interesting :

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/ambro/ambro01.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/ambro/ambro02.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/ambro/ambro12.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/ambro/ambro04.jpg

this one proposed making a garden of the highway :

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/basel/basel03.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/basel/basel04.jpg

making a building out of it :

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/bondi/bondi01.jpg

constructing houses on it :

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/marchei/marchei_03.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/marchei/marchei_05.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/marchei/marchei_07.jpg

another integrated building :

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/elash/elash05.jpg

[Jonesy55]

I like this motorway in Osaka, Japan which actually goes through the middle of a building!

http://www.tkolar.com/travel/Asia/Japan/Osaka/freeway_throughpass.jpg

[el tico]

That last picture is cool, I had never actually seen a road or freeway go through a building.


The Texas highways shown prevously look like a rollercoaster.


(Off Topic)
What I hate most is when people complain about roads in bad shape, in places like Central America, where tropical climate (heavy rain, humidity, worse than winter) cracks and does damage to the roads. With that kind of climate you can't just fix a road every 2 years, you gotta do it at least twice a year, which is very costly.

[DaDvD]

Nothing special...see...we have clusters aswell!
Yeah men!
This is the intersection between the A-3 motorway (Madrid-Valencia) and the M-50 circunvalation motorway in Madrid. It has 28 structures in 3 different levels, one of Europe's biggest (as it's said in the Spanish Ministry of Fomento page).
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/DaDvD/M-50A-3.jpg

[rantanamo]

Are you comparing that to the big interchanges in the US?

[CborG]

Biggest dutch intersection, Ridderster:

North:

http://212.11.63.101/mapsgene/dm/NRSKiZOTIn7cU7w7LuV0WLLbT0Y8Q6dhXbmV=i7R23BjF2VkkT=ws2kruX2RdtbDzWjFlKZInm_me38ndgx6ZWdP_QDHyt8pqX3SfkdA1sEnxHcLM7cFa0fACDMOztWtiSq09l9Z4Rp8s0nBnLni4XnqrG0R6WqY6tq0FCzlFqQ8vbH87CmOPsM41kcW==h48AzlkB9WW5x8MxnCyg31YYP3SfBx4pBNZOgKJuvhjR1y1ET4yEwW6izPHbJuU

South:

http://212.11.63.101/mapsgene/dm/04HxLC18k51AGMeKGVfTCVuyT2oRYTXwkf4Qtd2M=yEeAxQ_wfttI8ks2fif8xwsk_OvH3RSaoUlg41aLmHWBdF-y-1cMa6c8IJfXnW_AcG3eGcztCS-0rS0ILB7UjZ3m=_F5BVtk4lVyTWUhk8DZYX7VGnukEzvkGzEntCcIY-_T5Zy_i1k1pmxonfv9fUS_DAEg63Rj-L4=kaH-mZV0XDY-krLiLsjZyj52EGos1T2xOOzIugR0LcLAFEeP

Total overview:

http://212.11.63.101/mapsgene/dm/bfvXvmckjvSNsCqkOE2zIgEsjtNfZ9EYDsu_Cw-gHIXxTG_2F=CCbR3B-vg8hMx2OQy1RmCIynRIF3lNALQswxeKKaV71ufrSdLT3_oVbOF8C0BGgnkbnfCxP6-FMkV=72Y2reVvHm=qNG8n47JMHFU=9y9QTGrVKn3vNMGvzLkegqRRzootZ9yHd8ckPpcVqu4TKXtrV8SzpO3Ke58h5kopcY=beSbAqbTusG8xmrChhofCmFhR_mSL

[FM 2258]

Yeah men!
This is the intersection between the A-3 motorway (Madrid-Valencia) and the M-50 circunvalation motorway in Madrid. It has 28 structures in 3 different levels, one of Europe's biggest (as it's said in the Spanish Ministry of Fomento page).
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/DaDvD/M-50A-3.jpg

That thing has too many loops unlike the intersections we have in Texas like the US 75, IH 635 intersection in Dallas, the IH 35E/Texas 121 north of Dallas, the many ones in Houston that don't require you to make an unconfortable, dizzying loop to change highways.

I honestly think the 635/US75 in Dallas will be the most impressive interesection in the U.S. Looking at it you have direct connectors to each highway plus an intersection for the Frontage Roads, Toll Lanes and HOV lanes in the middle.

The U.S. Beats Europe in highways hands down plus I like "whistling" concrete much better than asphalt.

[eddyk]

http://img91.echo.cx/img91/8743/motorway11fz.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img272.echo.cx/img272/2558/motorway25wz.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
Random Motorway Madness

[sonysnob]

The U.S. Beats Europe in highways hands down plus I like "whistling" concrete much better than asphalt.

I agree that the US has more 'impressive' freeway to freeway interchanges then Europe does, however as far as freeway condition goes, Europe wins hands down. I haven't extensively traveled many European Countries, though have never traveled along a European Freeway that is anywhere near the deplorable condition that some some northeastern US freeways are in.

I'd recommend a jaunt around Michigan to see some of the bumpier US interstates around.

Cheers!

[elmwood]

A few thoughts on why European limited access highways seem better than their US counterparts:

* Europeans countries, in general, have a milder climate than the US and Canada. Freeze-thaw cycles and frost heave aren't as much of a problem in Europe as in NA.

* High gasoline taxes in Europe are often earmarked towards road construction and maintenance. In the US, revenue from gasoline taxes are usually lumped in the general fund.

* European countries, as a whole, started building expressways later than the US, learned from its mistakes, and improved on things such as signage and pavement markings.

* Roads in the US are usually built by private construction companies -- those that won the construction contract by submitting the lowest cost bid. Sometimes, you get what you pay for, even with standards in place; roads may get poured without a proper inspection of the subgrade, for instance.

* European countries have stricter roadside beauty legislation than the US Visual clutter from billboards and high-rise business signs is a problem in much of the US, especially Southern states. Texas, Georgia, South Carolina and Missouri are the worst, IMHO.

http://www.cyburbia.org/gallery/data/504/medium/1amarillo_05.jpg

Add some Georgia-style double-decker billboards and 150' tall Cracker Barrel signs to those otherwise pretty European highway scenes, and you'll probably not think they were so hot.

Let's make that Euro-road look a bit more like what you'd see outside of Atlanta.

http://img170.echo.cx/img170/6963/euro6mt.jpg

* Large states with a very low population (New Mexico, Wymoning, North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, etc) have to pay for maintenance of their roads. Let's look at Wyoming: 5.04 people per square mile (just a bit above Mongolia, at 4.6 per square mile). 914 miles (about 1,500 kilometers) of Interstate -- all of it grade-separated and limited access, excepting the freakish I-180 (http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-180_wy.html) -- serves a population of 493,782 residents - just a little more than Luxembourg (462,690). Don't forget that Wyoming has perhaps the harshest climate in the US; frigid cold (-30C and lower) in the winter, broiling (35C and higher) in the summer.

Think Luxembourg could afford to maintain 1,500 km of four lane dual carriageway limited access highway at Autobahn standards with a climate where temperatures vary about 70 degrees celsius between winter and summer? Wyoming does. Somehow.

[sbarn]

Yeah men!
This is the intersection between the A-3 motorway (Madrid-Valencia) and the M-50 circunvalation motorway in Madrid. It has 28 structures in 3 different levels, one of Europe's biggest (as it's said in the Spanish Ministry of Fomento page).
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/DaDvD/M-50A-3.jpg

I think the U.S. wins hands down when it comes to interchanges--

http://www.houstonfreeways.com/kvue_com_files/freeway2.jpg

When it comes to freeway surface quality, I think Europe is superior. Keep in mind however, that there are many freeways/highways outside of the northeast and the midwest... I think the most impressive freeways in the U.S. are in the south and west.

[DiggerD21]

But you have to remember, the US highway system dates back to Truman and started in the 1950s with Eisenhower and only "finished" in the 1990s.

The first german "Autobahn" (freeway) was built in 1921 (the Avus in Berlin). The first german Autobahn with a certain standard was built in 1932 - one year before Hitler came to power - between Cologne and Bonn (it is today the A 555). In the 30's the Nazis built an extensive freeway network.

[rantanamo]

A lot of the highways being shown wouldn't be allowed in some U.S. cities or states. Some of those roads are downright scary and have outdated safety designs and really poor geometrics.

How about a real modern properly designed highway complete with barrier, sufficient shoulder, super visual lighting properly placed away from traffic and correct geometrics for safer entrance/exit.

http://www.dart.org/images/newsroom/jpgs/loverslanestation.jpg

[zergcerebrates]

European highways are better than American ones. Theres nothing special going on with American freeways besides its just big and with tons of overpasses which actually kinda distracting and destroys the ambience of the city. European highways are very smooth since they use asphalt. Here in Los Angeles we use concrete on most of our highways and in other States too which the ride can be quite harsh and its never as smooth as asphalt roads. To me the smoothness of the ride is more important than the looks of the freeway, on some LA freeways you can actually crack a rim take 710,10,and 110 freeways for example and after all these years they never really repave or repair the freeways its just horrible.

[rantanamo]

There's nothing special about the European Highways shows. There are many American highways that use asphalt as well. It is an environment and climate choice that many places simply would be foolish to choose one for just smoothness or for the sake of looks. Besides a well maintained highway will be smooth regardless of material, and there are concrete types that are flexible and smooth just like asphalt. Its all about what your DOT chooses to implement. Some states and Tolling authorities are much, much better at this.

To me, proper design and safety are more important than smoothness. The geometric design and safety features of the European highways shown are downright scary. With the amount of comparative driving in the US, there would be probably twice as many fatalities with some of those road designs. There is so much wrong and scary in some of those pics that I don't know where to start.

Having said that, this is nothing more than another generalizing post. You cannot group all highways in Europe vs all those in America. There are highways in the US that go through beautiful countryside, many times even more spectacular than pics shown here, and there are super urban highways built to suit there environment and many of great aesthetic just like I'm sure you'll find in Europe. What one can say is that driving IS living in the US and the highways reflect that need. It is almost a joke to compare modern urban expressways of the U.S. to the poorly designed 50s style highways shown in many of these pics. How does an entity get away with some of those on ramp and exit angles. How do they get away with large exposed light poles. I remember seeing a video of two CLKs racing and one flipping into the base of 2 or 3 light poles. Absolutely crazy!!!

[rocky]

In Rome there is this big elevated highway that runs through a part of the city :runaway: , it will be demolished within a few months and replaced with a beautiful urban tunnel :)


Tangenziale Est :

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/a/a20.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/a/a21.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/a/a28.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/b/b09.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/c/c05.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/c/c07.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/c/c11.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/c/c12.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/c/c20.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/c/c28.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immfoto/a/a27.jpg


There were some proposals to find another purpose for "the monster", some were quite interesting :

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/ambro/ambro01.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/ambro/ambro02.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/ambro/ambro12.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/ambro/ambro04.jpg

this one proposed making a garden of the highway :

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/basel/basel03.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/basel/basel04.jpg

making a building out of it :

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/bondi/bondi01.jpg

constructing houses on it :

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/marchei/marchei_03.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/marchei/marchei_05.jpg

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/marchei/marchei_07.jpg

another integrated building :

http://www.amicidelmostro.org/m_immag/data/immprog/elash/elash05.jpg


they should make the garden, stupid fucks

[rantanamo]

That was done in Boston with the Big Dig. I believe Seattle and Portland have done so, as will Dallas with Woodall Rodgers Freeway.

[FM 2258]

A few thoughts on why European limited access highways seem better than their US counterparts:

* Europeans countries, in general, have a milder climate than the US and Canada. Freeze-thaw cycles and frost heave aren't as much of a problem in Europe as in NA.

* High gasoline taxes in Europe are often earmarked towards road construction and maintenance. In the US, revenue from gasoline taxes are usually lumped in the general fund.

* European countries, as a whole, started building expressways later than the US, learned from its mistakes, and improved on things such as signage and pavement markings.

* Roads in the US are usually built by private construction companies -- those that won the construction contract by submitting the lowest cost bid. Sometimes, you get what you pay for, even with standards in place; roads may get poured without a proper inspection of the subgrade, for instance.

* European countries have stricter roadside beauty legislation than the US Visual clutter from billboards and high-rise business signs is a problem in much of the US, especially Southern states. Texas, Georgia, South Carolina and Missouri are the worst, IMHO.

http://www.cyburbia.org/gallery/data/504/medium/1amarillo_05.jpg

Add some Georgia-style double-decker billboards and 150' tall Cracker Barrel signs to those otherwise pretty European highway scenes, and you'll probably not think they were so hot.

Let's make that Euro-road look a bit more like what you'd see outside of Atlanta.

http://img170.echo.cx/img170/6963/euro6mt.jpg

* Large states with a very low population (New Mexico, Wymoning, North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, etc) have to pay for maintenance of their roads. Let's look at Wyoming: 5.04 people per square mile (just a bit above Mongolia, at 4.6 per square mile). 914 miles (about 1,500 kilometers) of Interstate -- all of it grade-separated and limited access, excepting the freakish I-180 (http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-180_wy.html) -- serves a population of 493,782 residents - just a little more than Luxembourg (462,690). Don't forget that Wyoming has perhaps the harshest climate in the US; frigid cold (-30C and lower) in the winter, broiling (35C and higher) in the summer.

Think Luxembourg could afford to maintain 1,500 km of four lane dual carriageway limited access highway at Autobahn standards with a climate where temperatures vary about 70 degrees celsius between winter and summer? Wyoming does. Somehow.


Hahaha........I love that second picture. In my opinion I think it helps to have billboards and tall signs cluttering our Interstates. Interstates are made for travel, not scenery. Plus we have many highways that go through scenic areas. Speaking of signs and stuff people should notice that our highways support business so much that we actually have "business" highways.

In my town we have Business 35 as an offshoot of Interstate 35 following the old US 81 highway.

[mlm]

Okay so some people think the American are way better and some the European. It's actually kind of a stupid comparison, since there are so many different ways highwyas are made in Europe (and maybe in the States too).

I agree with some Americans that the Spanish "junction" shown here looks extremly weird, and you would never find anything like that in many other European countries. I can't say I'm a huge fan of these huge junctions you in the Stetes too though. Many of them are impressive yes, but pretty they aren't. In the States I've mostly driven on highways in Georgia and Florida, and here in Europe in Denmark and Germany. To me the big difference is still the way the highways are "build into the enviroment" (and of course the extra number of lanes on the big US ones, which we don't really need). These huge pillar stacs are real eyesores to me, why not ret to make it look good?

Here's an example of how it's done in Denmark, this is the newest cloverleaf junction here. This is just before it was opened, today there are grass and plants all over the ground:

http://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/imageblob/image.asp?type=image&id=75938

I know there's a lot of these in other European countries too, but atleast here you would never just see a bunch of pillars with roads upon them. I'm yet to see an American junction that are not just "placed on top of the ground". But be more than welcome to prove me wrong, I have of course not seen all US highway junctions.

To me, proper design and safety are more important than smoothness. The geometric design and safety features of the European highways shown are downright scary. With the amount of comparative driving in the US, there would be probably twice as many fatalities with some of those road designs. There is so much wrong and scary in some of those pics that I don't know where to start.Again, most of the examples shown here are surely not "typical" European. Things like that would never be allowed in my part of the world. I'll bet you that onramps, quality of the road and things like that are more safe here them on most US highways. Atleast the ones I've drivin on.

I know Denmark is not that large, and we don't have many thousand km's of highway, which of course makes it easier to keep in a quite good condition. So I guess you can considder this post "Dansih vs. US Highways" only, I wont/can't defend the other Europeans highways...

[CityHai]

Germany


Still U/C

http://img187.echo.cx/img187/4765/autobahn13an.th.jpg (http://img187.echo.cx/my.php?image=autobahn13an.jpg)

http://img187.echo.cx/img187/5420/autobahn33en.th.jpg (http://img187.echo.cx/my.php?image=autobahn33en.jpg)

Ready for Traffic

http://img187.echo.cx/img187/185/autobahn26en.th.jpg (http://img187.echo.cx/my.php?image=autobahn26en.jpg)

Typical German highway in use

http://img187.echo.cx/img187/2408/autobahn46hx.th.jpg (http://img187.echo.cx/my.php?image=autobahn46hx.jpg)

http://img187.echo.cx/img187/2710/autobahn56hp.th.jpg (http://img187.echo.cx/my.php?image=autobahn56hp.jpg)

http://www.autobahn-online.de

[edubejar]

I gotta give credit to European highways...not only did many of them have to be built in already-built areas, often densely congested, but many had to be built underground or at very low levels as to disturb as little as possible the existent environment. Many of course, were built in rural areas, as was the case here in the US, where it is much easier to build.

One thing I certainly appreciate about European highways is how clean they tend to be compared to American ones. When I say clean, I am referring to automobile (ESPECIALLY tires) and cargo debris. Perhaps due to the much larger distances (a very big country and state can have its disadvantages!!!), you tend to see so many more cars break down here where I live, tires blow up, and cargo at back of truck pick-ups fall out. I cannot stress out how often I see dangerous debris and cargo on our Texas highways, and how I've almost had to dodge stupid "pick-up" truck drivers with cargo that would fall-out all of the sudden at 70 mph.

@Rantanamo
Perhaps you are a civil engineer specialized in highway construction, in which case I would respect your observations on highway geometrics etc, but you have to admit we US drivers are some of the most clumsy drivers in the world...you probably are right...we probably could not drive in European highways, much less dense European streets, where you have to make very fast choices as to where to turn, exit, enter etc. Remember, overall, European distances tend to be much shorter, and this is reflected in the need to be very fast and alert in Europe.

[FM 2258]

Okay so some people think the American are way better and some the European. It's actually kind of a stupid comparison, since there are so many different ways highwyas are made in Europe (and maybe in the States too).

I agree with some Americans that the Spanish "junction" shown here looks extremly weird, and you would never find anything like that in many other European countries. I can't say I'm a huge fan of these huge junctions you in the Stetes too though. Many of them are impressive yes, but pretty they aren't. In the States I've mostly driven on highways in Georgia and Florida, and here in Europe in Denmark and Germany. To me the big difference is still the way the highways are "build into the enviroment" (and of course the extra number of lanes on the big US ones, which we don't really need). These huge pillar stacs are real eyesores to me, why not ret to make it look good?

Here's an example of how it's done in Denmark, this is the newest cloverleaf junction here. This is just before it was opened, today there are grass and plants all over the ground:

http://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/imageblob/image.asp?type=image&id=75938

I know there's a lot of these in other European countries too, but atleast here you would never just see a bunch of pillars with roads upon them. I'm yet to see an American junction that are not just "placed on top of the ground". But be more than welcome to prove me wrong, I have of course not seen all US highway junctions.

Again, most of the examples shown here are surely not "typical" European. Things like that would never be allowed in my part of the world. I'll bet you that onramps, quality of the road and things like that are more safe here them on most US highways. Atleast the ones I've drivin on.

I know Denmark is not that large, and we don't have many thousand km's of highway, which of course makes it easier to keep in a quite good condition. So I guess you can considder this post "Dansih vs. US Highways" only, I wont/can't defend the other Europeans highways...

Cloverleafs are an outdated form of freeway intersection in my opinion since you have to slow down to a crawl then try to accelerate back to freeway speed while others are again slowing down to a crawl for an exit. They look cool from the air but that's about it.

I would agree that they're OK for freeway intersections outside of the city where traffic is low.

[EarlyBird]

A lot of the highways being shown wouldn't be allowed in some U.S. cities or states. Some of those roads are downright scary and have outdated safety designs and really poor geometrics.

How about a real modern properly designed highway complete with barrier, sufficient shoulder, super visual lighting properly placed away from traffic and correct geometrics for safer entrance/exit.

US highways wouldn't be allowed in the UK as they would be considered unsafe. High barriers cause obstruction of view on on/off ramps, leading to increased casualties, concrete surfaces increase the braking distance over asphalt and the concrete crash barriers were considered harardous here as they cause vehicles to either bounce off or flip over them due to their rigidity. The British metal crash barriers were designed to give by a few feet so that the vehicle (trucks included) would be guided along by them rather than go straight over the top or bounce off into someone else's lane. Also, any raised division in the road (either on or off) requires many metres of zig-zagged "warning" zone to alert the driver. All these safety features are missing from US roads, hence higher casualty figures.

[mlm]

Cloverleafs are an outdated form of freeway intersection in my opinion since you have to slow down to a crawl then try to accelerate back to freeway speed while others are again slowing down to a crawl for an exit. They look cool from the air but that's about it.

I would agree that they're OK for freeway intersections outside of the city where traffic is low.My point wasn't really if cloverleafs are good or bad, it was rather to show an example of how new highways here are build into the enviroment, rather than just placed in stacks on top of each other, making them much more pleasant looking (IMO). And this goes for all new on/off ramps, bridgecrossings an so on here (Still talking about Denmark only). Of course this gets more difficult and expensive the wieder the highway is.

[DrJoe]

Talk about unsafe, look at this autostrada pic from the first page...this is pretty brutal, what is a little 3 foot wide curb going to do.

http://www.stradeeautostrade.it/articoli/2004/quattro/16-19%20osservatorio%20anas%204/foto/foto2.jpg

[salvius]

US browbeats Europe when it comes to highways. The surface quality is obviously worse -- considering the coverage, weather, the lane width, the number of lanes, etc. this is not a big surprise. On the other hand, the US highways have the clearest direction boards in the world, along with a well marked road, rain or shine. The lanes are luxiriously wide, the interchanges forgiving, and the traffic separation extremely generous. The emergency lanes are infinetely wider and more common -- a real factor in safety. The highway network, on top of all this, is humangous. In terms of connectivity, it is unparalleled.

Basically, it's not a competition.

[rantanamo]

US highways wouldn't be allowed in the UK as they would be considered unsafe. High barriers cause obstruction of view on on/off ramps, leading to increased casualties, concrete surfaces increase the braking distance over asphalt and the concrete crash barriers were considered harardous here as they cause vehicles to either bounce off or flip over them due to their rigidity. The British metal crash barriers were designed to give by a few feet so that the vehicle (trucks included) would be guided along by them rather than go straight over the top or bounce off into someone else's lane. Also, any raised division in the road (either on or off) requires many metres of zig-zagged "warning" zone to alert the driver. All these safety features are missing from US roads, hence higher casualty figures.

That's ridiculous. The barriers are not high and view obstructive. The metal barriers are absolutely destructive to car occupants and actually increase the speed of the car destruction. Especially if you are talking about Armaco, which is more destructive than even grouped steel tension cable. That's why this is replaced when possible in the U.S. and replace with collecting concave conrete barrier, which is actually made to keep cars from going over or bouncing too far off. Their shape actually guides the car, and most importantly on high flyovers and bridges, prevents breakthroughs not only from direct action, but as well as being the correct size and shape to actually seize a car on top.

There are warning zones on US highways. Put a tire on the outer stripe and you will understand. At splits such as on and off ramps there are also warning lights, reflectors, signage and at last water filled tanks inside of true shock obsorbant crash barriers that not only rely on the way and crumpling, but has a high tension collapseable structure.

On the myth of asphalt having a shorter breaking zone. Not true. I used to collect data for the NHTSA. There are some interesting findings on asphalt vs concrete. Both have advantages and disadvantages. On an F1 tire, yes concrete is more slippery, but not on yours. Neither is super advantageous when it comes to accidents. Example: Concrete is more dust prone, while asphalt is more prone to weepers(water seeps) and oil seperation causing low viscosity on the road surface. Concrete is more prone to chipping, while asphalt is more prone to warping and true potholes. The higher count of accidents in the U.S. is a percentage capacity, miles driven and time on the road issue. People in the U.S. drive almost everywhere. Most drive everywhere and that simply puts us at more danger.

[LtBk]

US browbeats Europe when it comes to highways. The surface quality is obviously worse -- considering the coverage, weather, the lane width, the number of lanes, etc. this is not a big surprise. On the other hand, the US highways have the clearest direction boards in the world, along with a well marked road, rain or shine. The lanes are luxiriously wide, the interchanges forgiving, and the traffic separation extremely generous. The emergency lanes are infinetely wider and more common -- a real factor in safety. The highway network, on top of all this, is humangous. In terms of connectivity, it is unparalleled.

Basically, it's not a competition.

Its too bad most American drivers are idiots and ruin our highways.

[rantanamo]

I gotta give credit to European highways...not only did many of them have to be built in already-built areas, often densely congested, but many had to be built underground or at very low levels as to disturb as little as possible the existent environment. Many of course, were built in rural areas, as was the case here in the US, where it is much easier to build.

One thing I certainly appreciate about European highways is how clean they tend to be compared to American ones. When I say clean, I am referring to automobile (ESPECIALLY tires) and cargo debris. Perhaps due to the much larger distances (a very big country and state can have its disadvantages!!!), you tend to see so many more cars break down here where I live, tires blow up, and cargo at back of truck pick-ups fall out. I cannot stress out how often I see dangerous debris and cargo on our Texas highways, and how I've almost had to dodge stupid "pick-up" truck drivers with cargo that would fall-out all of the sudden at 70 mph.

@Rantanamo
Perhaps you are a civil engineer specialized in highway construction, in which case I would respect your observations on highway geometrics etc, but you have to admit we US drivers are some of the most clumsy drivers in the world...you probably are right...we probably could not drive in European highways, much less dense European streets, where you have to make very fast choices as to where to turn, exit, enter etc. Remember, overall, European distances tend to be much shorter, and this is reflected in the need to be very fast and alert in Europe.


Just a former NTHSA collector. Patterns were very obvious in our data, and is why many changes to highway design has taken place. Many deaths in the past were totally preventable and why I speak on the safety of highways. There are many dangerous rural highways in the US as well. It usually comes down to cost, age or lack of data when a road is unsafe. Keeping a nice, pretty surface is only a small part of safety.

I wouldn't say U.S. drivers are bad. I would say that we are cheap. Many, many, many. Did I say many? Many accidents in the U.S. are caused by lack of car maintenance. Lack of tire pressure causing flats and easy punctures. Just buying cheap tires. Lack of oil change causing stalls. Lack of brake fluid from leaks or not replacing it, bad brake pads or just cheap ones, etc. Dirty fuel pumps causing stalls. Dry transmissions causing slow shifts. Plus the additions of many more large shipping semis on our highways are all barriers to safety more so than driver skill or speed. This was especially bad before the latest round of large shipping truck safety standards were put into place. Semis from Mexico were causing many accidents in border states from lack of maintenance. Lots of parts falling off. All of the above equal danger more than a road itself could ever do.

Newer and renovated highways are designed with great safety and modern features. It is we, that make them dangerous. Again, I think the European highways look pretty. I'm an F1 fan and I love the look of nicely ground asphalt surfaces and their contrast with the bright safety painted lines. That doesn't make them designed safely though. Remember, the US is the land of lawsuits and car accidents. Municipalities and state and national organizations do not want liability, therefore this is an element that is pretty much built out of the highways and byways.

[LtBk]

Not all American drivers are bad but a great number of them don't seem to
belong on the roads or freeways. Good examples are retards doing 50 mph on left lane in 75 mph zone and not moving over. One of things i like about European drivers is that they move over when a faster car aproaches them.

[Jonesy55]

the US highways have the clearest direction boards in the world, along with a well marked road, rain or shine.

I can't say i've noticed this, compared to the UK for example I didn't think US roads were better. In fact some US interstates don't actually tell you whch towns/cities you're heading towards, they just give the road number.

[rantanamo]

Its probably true that many drivers are bad in the U.S. or filled with road rage and a "king of the road" sense of entitlement that causes its share of accidents as well., but a huge percentage of accidents come from other things I mentioend above. One thing I failed to mention were the large number of "sleepy" accidents. Sleep people. Get a room or pull over and rest.

- European drivers are better because of stricter rules.
- American drivers drive more, drive longer distances and for whatever reason are cheap and tend to come in a more variety of ages. We recommended max age as well as 18 year old lower age limit many times.

[Jonesy55]

One thing I failed to mention were the large number of "sleepy" accidents. Sleep people. Get a room or pull over and rest.

Do you think that might be because people in the US work longer hours with less holidays :dunno:

[sonysnob]

I can't say i've noticed this, compared to the UK for example I didn't think US roads were better. In fact some US interstates don't actually tell you whch towns/cities you're heading towards, they just give the road number.

I think this is due to cultural differences more than anything. In North America, freeway signage usually shows the route number, a cardinal direction, and one (or sometimes two) control cities. The route number tends to be the most prodominant and usefull info to North Americans, whereas the destinatination(s) seems to be the most usefull information to Europeans.

Personally, I prefer following numbers as apposed to cities, but then again, thats what I am used to as a North American.

Cheers!

[FM 2258]

I think this is due to cultural differences more than anything. In North America, freeway signage usually shows the route number, a cardinal direction, and one (or sometimes two) control cities. The route number tends to be the most prodominant and usefull numbers to North Americans, whereas the destinatination(s) seems to be the most usefull information to Europeans.

Personally, I prefer following numbers as apposed to cities, but then again, thats what I am used to as a North American.

Cheers!

Very true. I think that's also why we have more "interesting" highway signage than other countries. Canada seems to use route signage like the U.S.

[Jonesy55]

I think this is due to cultural differences more than anything. In North America, freeway signage usually shows the route number, a cardinal direction, and one (or sometimes two) control cities. The route number tends to be the most prodominant and usefull info to North Americans, whereas the destinatination(s) seems to be the most usefull information to Europeans.

Personally, I prefer following numbers as apposed to cities, but then again, thats what I am used to as a North American.

Cheers!

I think it's fine if you know the area and which roads go where but for tourists and people who don't know the area very well it's much more difficult to remember a load of road numbers to get where you want to go rather than just following the signs.

[sonysnob]

I think it's fine if you know the area and which roads go where but for tourists and people who don't know the area very well it's much more difficult to remember a load of road numbers to get where you want to go rather than just following the signs.

Perhaps, though I found the opposite. North Americans are used to following the numbers. For travelers heading from Michigan to Florida for example, they just Follow I-75, it is irrelevant to them which cities they pass through along the way, therefore the 75 designation is the most important piece of information. Same goes for most tourists and travelers, when they plan there trip, (as most people do), they pull out the map, and generally just follow a number. I find it odd in Europe (particularly Germany) where signage sometimes only makes reference to communities, and not the route number, since I am accustomed (and like) following route numbers.

I alluded to earlier, I really don't think there is a better way of signing guide signage, both the Eurpean and N/A systems both work well for there respective travelers.

Cheers!

[Der wahre Heino]

I find it odd in Europe (particularly Germany) where signage sometimes only makes reference to communities, and not the route number

Signs in Germany always display both route number plus destination

http://home.att.net/~texhwyman/g_imgs/overheads2.jpg

[DrJoe]

Thats kind of cluttered looking though.

[idvd_]

Thats kind of cluttered looking though.

Don't talk about things you dont know

This blue sign shows german autobahn number (in that case if u conitues driving u will stay at A1, if u go right u ll get on A28)

Some german roads are part of transeuropean highway system, so they have 2 signs, German number and European number (If u go right u ll be on A28 and E22)

And that number with yellow background shows which road you should follow to reach shown bundestraße (interstate) (If u go right after some driving you ll approach to exit that leads to B322)

damn simple

by the way

http://www.stradeeautostrade.it/articoli/2004/quattro/16-19%20osservatorio%20anas%204/foto/foto2.jpg

That is not highway to european standards, it is highest an expressway in italy,

that s what autostrada looks like (like every standard eur. highway)

http://www.fruga.net/CH/jpg/autostrada.jpg

[DrJoe]

hmmm ok, whatever. I drive maybe the most impressive piece of highway infrastructure in the world like every week so maybe it takes more to please me.

[idvd_]

hmmm ok, whatever. I drive maybe the most impressive piece of highway infrastructure in the world like every week so maybe it takes more to please me.

Maybe yes, for you, but most europeans dont care how is impressive route, it s just important that the road is qualitative functional and fast, no matters if it has 2 or 10 lanes.

[DrJoe]

Ok well there is also that to go along with the huge freeways, in the city its 12-18 lanes and outside it looks like all the stuff you post.

In the city
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v339/drjoe12/401/401_cl_rouge_west.jpg

Out of the city.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v339/drjoe12/401/403_cl_longwoodsroad_west.jpg

http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_401_images/401_cl_456_east.jpg

[idvd_]

Hey, i really dont care HOW MANY LANES IT HAS ! :) I allready wrote it s important to get fast, and for most european highways it enoughs to have 2+1 security lane per direction do get fast and secure. Why do u think german highways don't have speed limit ? Highways which are much narrower and have less lanes than US ?

[DrJoe]

Yes and im saying only in the cities is there that many lanes, everywhere else it looks like the same crap in Europe. BTW this is Canada(specifically Ontario) im talking about, not the US.

[sonysnob]

Signs in Germany always display both route number plus destination

http://home.att.net/~texhwyman/g_imgs/overheads2.jpg

Hrmmm, I am obviously mistaken then. I do recall seeing guide singage in Europe with only destinations and not numbers, but it must have been in another country.

Thanks for clearing this up.

Cheers!

[acela]

Actually not all European highways are that quality.It depends of the fundings of the government of the highway projects.If you look at the UK motorway is way out in terms of quality compare to other european countries and the US.This is because the government allocate small budgets on motorway projects compare to i say Germany.Besides that a toll highway is very useful in order a good/quality highway is produced like the Autoroute in France,Autopistas or Autostrade.So it's not a matter of continent actually.Its a matter of budget.You can build quality highway but you have think about the consequences such maintenance,the extra money for the highway project can be directed to other useful fundings such education or where ever the gov wants to allocate it.Allocation of the money have to be balanced depends of the need,time or economic situatiion,if not you will be in trouble that's all.

[eusebius]

and adorable people we Nederlanders are, we give directions in its own language, so on A15 etc it reads Kleve rather than Kleef (Nederlands); Köln rather than Keulen
Oh, those NL, it's asfalt heaven!

[DetoX]

Some pics of European roads:

http://www.reinhard-weis.de/wahlkreis/bilder/bahn-autobahn.JPG

http://www.bmvbw.de/Bild/original_20794/Lkw-auf-der-Autobahn.jpg

http://progn.org/photos/2002-10-Dev_Towo_in_SLF/saalfelder-autobahn.jpeg

http://graphics.worldweb.com/PhotoImages/France/GA_0004.jpg


I think it doesn`t depend on money .. because both US and EU has it. US it bigger, and have less people than EU so it is easier to keep good quality of roads in the EU.

Hmm, what are speed limits in the US?

[CharlieP]

http://img91.echo.cx/img91/8743/motorway11fz.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img272.echo.cx/img272/2558/motorway25wz.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
Random Motorway Madness

How sad am I for recognising both junctions instantly? :)

[eddyk]

What I really noticed in that pic (top) is that it looks like a post to the left of the Junction is either iced up or dryin out!

[GNU]

actually the german autobahn is much better than their american counterpart.The thickness off the cement is twice as big on the autobahn than on the highways in america.
this surely makes the autobahn more expensive to built, but it is therefore more durable.All autobahns arent flat,but are higher to the middle of the road and are getting flatter to the outside lanes.This is done to prevent rain water flooding the street.This method might probably set a limit to the number of lanes.As far as I know the most lanes in Germany can be found around Frankfurt with 6 on each side or something like that.
also most american highways are featuring cement barriers in the middle,whilst there are mainly steel barriers used in germany.

[sonysnob]

actually the german autobahn is much better than their american counterpart.The thickness off the cement is twice as big on the autobahn than on the highways in america.
this surely makes the autobahn more expensive to built, but it is therefore more durable.All autobahns arent flat,but are higher to the middle of the road and are getting flatter to the outside lanes.This is done to prevent rain water flooding the street.This method might probably set a limit to the number of lanes.As far as I know the most lanes in Germany can be found around Frankfurt with 6 on each side or something like that.
also most american highways are featuring cement barriers in the middle,whilst there are mainly steel barriers used in germany.

Sloping from the centre of the road outwards is called the crown of the road (at least where I am from). I would be very shocked if any modern road juristiction built roads without a crown these days.

Steel baricades were at one time in favour in North America, but are generally not being used anymore, as concrete barriers are becoming dominant. Steel barriers are typically designed so that the supports snap out away from the cushon when a vehicle strikes the barrier. This unfortunately results in vehicles often being deflected back into driving lanes along a freeway (at least, this is what was the case in North America). For this reason, steel barriers are no longer that common along north american freeways.

There are many designs of concrete barriers, the one I am most familiar with is called 'Ontario Tallwall' or just 'tallwall' for short. This barrier is designed to deflect vehicles up along the barrier, where the barrier cushons there impact, and stops the vehicle in the shoulder/emergency lane and doesn't deflect it into traffic. From a safety standpoint, concrete has been proven much safer then steel on north american highways.

Cheers!

[GNU]

Thats intersting!Actually I had not the slightest idea how you call sloped highways in your place,but you got what I meant.considering the steel barrier Im pretty sure its the more sofistcated option,since the german government is starting to built concrete barriers similar to the ones used in the states,due to a shortage of money.
So the concrete version is actually the cheaper solution.Now I dont know the differencies between both of them in case of a crash,but I would have thought that the steel barrier absorbes more of the impact energy compared to the concrete one.That snap back effect that you mention probably differs in the different desgns of the barrier.
Also the speed limit is generally higher in Germany than in the States.I guess that also has to be taken into account.Probably concrete barriers are enough for the standard highway.

[tahk]

The thing is that I love asphalt highways and here in the US it's not very used in the Highways unfortunately.

:? so what do you use? concrete?

[sonysnob]

Thats intersting!Actually I had not the slightest idea how you call sloped highways in your place,but you got what I meant.considering the steel barrier Im pretty sure its the more sofistcated option,since the german government is starting to built concrete barriers similar to the ones used in the states,due to a shortage of money.
So the concrete version is actually the cheaper solution.Now I dont know the differencies between both of them in case of a crash,but I would have thought that the steel barrier absorbes more of the impact energy compared to the concrete one.That snap back effect that you mention probably differs in the different desgns of the barrier.
Also the speed limit is generally higher in Germany than in the States.I guess that also has to be taken into account.Probably concrete barriers are enough for the standard highway.

Judging from what i have seen and heard about German Autobhans, I wouldn't think that the German government would be installing concrete barriers if they were a reduction in safety. I would bet however, that concrete barriers are more cost effective, since they don't need to be replaced if one gets hit.

There is a great website that lists the differences between the different types of concrete barriers used across north america, but i can't seem to recall the URL.

Once again, I know that Ontario is replacing all of its old steel barriers with concrete because concrete is both more cost effective and actually safer.

Most concrete barriers are designed with a slope on them that when vehicles hit the barrier, it prepels them up the side, this deflects all the crash energy up, and actually is very safe for both the vehicles occupants and other motorists (since the crashed vehicle is less likely to enter the driving lanes again).

Of course, personally, I like a wide grassed or treed median separating the dual carriageways, not only is it very safe, but I find it much nicer to look at then a pile of steel or concrete.

Cheers!

[DrJoe]

Recently completed cement barrier near me. You can see its needed here because this part of the 401 is like a rollercoaster.
http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_401_images/401_cl_476_east.jpg

sony, you seem to run the site where im getting these pictures from, do you mind me using them???

[centralized pandemonium]

Coming back to the original question, does anyone seriously think that 401 is a good highway. Would someone like to drive there during the rush hours. I for one, would not.

[salvius]

^ the highway is over capacity and will remain to be so... It is an international (particularily US) trade hub, in addition to being a commuter line for the outer suburbs. Overall, not a good place to be. There's simply nothing that can be done about this.

But that's, in fact, not the original question. The original question was whether European highways are better than US ones? Considering the mind boggling network size, and the overall breadth (which I have already outlined) of the US network, it's just not a real competition.

[Justme]

Reading this interesting thread, I would agree that it seems the American motorway systems do employ more spectacular interchanges.

However, whilst thinking about that, it also occured to me that European motorways may have more spectacular viaducts, bridges and tunnels.

In this was, one counters the other to balance them out.

Also, it is clear that the U.S. has more km of motorway, being larger, but I would suspect that the EU country's are at least as dense as the U.S. in motorway networks - although Urban area's in the U.S. have more motorways in the central area (this is compensated by larger urban rail in urban centers in Europe)

I can't say one is better than the other, both parts of the world have great networks, in some area's like the U.S. they may be wider and have more spectacular interchanges, however, this is compensated by in Europe with some area's like Germany with no speed limits, and many other parts with amazing tunnels and viaducts (i.e. all the nations surrounding the Alps)

[Stratosphere 2020]

Not all countries in Europe including western Europe have better highways than the US. I found the highway in parts of Belgium rundown. Certain states in the US do have well maintained highways. Many highways in and around Houston metro I found to be bumpy to very bumpy.

[Xabi]

http://www.dogusinsaat.com.tr/site/projeler/images/Image11662_b.jpg

This is an environmental atrocity!!!! :sleepy:

[Xabi]

Some pics of the Basque A-8 highway (built and opened between 1968 and 1976).

Photos taken in my city:

http://usuarios.lycos.es/xabierpagola3/aritzbatalde3.jpg

http://usuarios.lycos.es/xabierpagola3/aritzbatalde5.jpg


Photos taken in Donostia-San Sebastian:

http://usuarios.lycos.es/xabierpagola4/illumbe_66.jpg

http://usuarios.lycos.es/xabierpagola4/illumbe_65.jpg

[Justme]

This is an environmental atrocity!!!! :sleepy:

Ah yes. The poor mans tunnel, who needs a roof on a tunnel mate, when I can build you one cheaper without.

[KONSTANTINOUPOLIS]

This is the biggest Athenian motorway:

Doukissis Plakentias

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/alfa_omega/19058/234696/0/%F4%EF+%E2%E7%EC%E1.gif

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/alfa_omega/19058/263678/0/10MayAtOdosDoukPlaken_high.jpg

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/alfa_omega/19058/342109/0/RoadDoukPlakentias1_h.jpg

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/alfa_omega/19058/342115/0/RoadDoukPlakentias2_h.jpg

[Conexionz]

Indian highways

Mumbai downtown
http://www.elinversionista.tv/negocios/images/highways%20copy.jpg
Mumbai-Pune highway
http://abhishekgupta.com/pic/Dallas%20Highways.jpg
Calcutta downtown
http://www.scvresources.com/highways/east_la_photo_240.jpg

[KIWIKAAS]

I dont agree at all with the title of this thread.
Europe is home to probably some of the most technologically adavnced motorways/freeways but is also home to some of the least.
Its a very relative concept in Europe as to which country has beter roads or not. Some European countries employ great technologiy to their road building and traffic management. Others not at all. There a plenty of examples of substandard freeways in Europe.
Also, one must take account of the general state of highways and roads. In most European countries, once you leave the freeway its a mess. Substandard capacity and marking. This has nothing to do with old city centres, its also the case in many 20th century neighbourhoods.

Many of the pictures posted on this thread of European freeways are very substandard by American standards.

The German Autobahns arent particularly good examples of freeway construction (slow on and off-ramps for instance and skinny shoulder lanes). If you want to see wrecks being cleaned up then Germany is a good place to go.

[909]

I'm always suprised how people see size as a form of quality. And all those pictures are nice, but they don't tell the whole story.

Many of the pictures posted on this thread of European freeways are very substandard by American standards.
What do you mean with substandard?

If you want to see wrecks being cleaned up then Germany is a good place to go.
Not true, the Autobahn is relative safe, for example: France has more people killed in traffic than Germany, despite the different in population (and speed).
If you want to see wrecks, then you have to leave the freeways. The most accidents happens outside the freeways.

[dubaiflo]

Some middle east highway pictures, in particular dubai.

http://www.arrakeen.ch/dubai/208%20%20city%20highway.jpg http://www.japet.jp/nihonjin/images/dubai/kurashi/du-highway.jpg
http://www.gavinsblog.com/mt/archives/Sheikh%20Zayed%20Road.JPG

http://mishilo.image.pbase.com/u44/bmcmorrow/upload/33646161.wien018.JPG

what i like on the UAE highways is that they are always landscaped, with flowers, grass, tress, plants, statues, but i did not find a good photo.

[elliott]

What i dont understand is why some people on here think huge junctions like this

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/alfa_omega/19058/263678/0/10MayAtOdosDoukPlaken_high.jpg

are a good thing. I know what i'd rather have a small road/motorway/highway with a railway adjoined.

To be honest id rather there wasnt such a thing as motorways but thats outta the question for now.

[LtBk]

What's wrong with freeways? There are advantages you know and its hell of lot better than regular roads.

[ttownfeen]

This is totally OT. Maybe it's because I just saw Revenge of the Sith last night, but those pictures Dubai remind me a lot of The Capital City, Coruscant(sp?).

[Andrew]

What is the speed limit on American highways/freeways (whatever you call them)? I thought it was 60mph. Surely the number on these signs isn't the speed limit?
http://home.jtan.com/~ptunner/es/img/es106.jpg

People here seem to love their huge roads a lot, shame because they're very unsustainble - they take up vast ammounts of land, junctions like those above cut cities into pieces and make the pedestrian environment very uninviting. The over use of the car causes all manners of health problems and contributes to global warming. I don't think they're anything to brag about. The Europeans have got more of the right idea with their use of high speed rail as a viable alternative to roads.

[Paneco]

IMO european highways are great!

[Puce86]

What is the speed limit on American highways/freeways (whatever you call them)? I thought it was 60mph. Surely the number on these signs isn't the speed limit?
http://home.jtan.com/~ptunner/es/img/es106.jpg




This is a spanish motorway, so the speed limit is shown in Km/h, not in mph

[BlaZ]

Here some more pictures from dutch highways.

4x4 lanes.

http://www.autosnelwegen.nl/asw/galerie/cs02.jpg

2x5 lanes

http://www.autosnelwegen.nl/asw/galerie/cs01.jpg

pretty special one, 30 km long dike

http://billeder.dybdahl.dk/Europatur/web/thumbs-640x480/P0004110.jpg

[Arpels]

Gooshhhhhhhhhhh :eek: they could use some trees or plants to guive another aspect Xabi!!

[Arpels]

some highways close to Oporto Portugal:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/aleck1/estrada.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/aleck1/noolivazemeis.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/aleck1/nodefrancos.jpg

[el tico]

What is the speed limit on American highways/freeways (whatever you call them)? I thought it was 60mph. Surely the number on these signs isn't the speed limit?
http://home.jtan.com/~ptunner/es/img/es106.jpg

People here seem to love their huge roads a lot, shame because they're very unsustainble - they take up vast ammounts of land, junctions like those above cut cities into pieces and make the pedestrian environment very uninviting. The over use of the car causes all manners of health problems and contributes to global warming. I don't think they're anything to brag about. The Europeans have got more of the right idea with their use of high speed rail as a viable alternative to roads.


???

That picture is not at all in the US!

Continental American road signs are not like the ones in Europe, the speed limit signs are in a rectangular shape.

[txRNGr]

this whole thread on "why european highways are better than American" is redundant from the start. first of all, the US pioneers in road technology whether that be for safety or connectiveness. any logical person can conclude this by understanding the volume of drivers that are in the United States. If we were comparing Mass-Transit then, of course, Europe would win. anyone can build a two lane highway or a cloverleaf intersection, hell India managed to do this. the true measure of superiority comes from innovation in the road systems, not out-dated clover-leaf, round-about, or spegettti interchanges. yes there are some bumpy roads in the US, but i know Europe has its fair shair of bumpy roads. If we really want to compare freeways and highways, we should take the best of the best from each side and compare. Im sure everyone will realize that by the functionality and innovation of many US freeways that the United States is superior in its system. The new interchange of US-75 and I-635 in dallas, texas (shown on the first page of this thread) has over five miles of bridges, is a five level interchange with the tallest level reaching 12-stories, and can handle 500,000 cars per day. any "pretty" and "cute" freeway Europe wants to throw at the US(and Canada for that matter) will loose based off innovation and the ability to handle such a large traffic load. Im sure everyone can agree that the mass-transit systems of the United States seems "cute" and lacks the ability to handle the volume of passengers the European systems can, which makes the European systems superior. But highways as they are today were born in the United States. We have more miles, we have more capacity, we handle traffic better...get over it.

[Xabi]

Gooshhhhhhhhhhh :eek: they could use some trees or plants to guive another aspect Xabi!!

What? :| :| :| :|

[Carretero]

And what do you think about this spanish interchange? (located at Madrid)

http://www.sercal.es/images/centroE.jpg

As you can see, it has 4 levels, like biggest american interchanges.

[txRNGr]

And what do you think about this spanish interchange? (located at Madrid)

http://www.sercal.es/images/centroE.jpg

As you can see, it has 4 levels, like biggest american interchanges.

Please, there are 16 4-level interchanges and 1 5-level interchange in the Dallas area alone(not including Fort Worth area to the west which makes up the Dallas-Fort Worth metropolitan area). In fact, many of these 4-level interchanges are scheduled to be reconstructed into 5-level interchanges withing the next 10 years. These 17 large freeway interchanges do not include the countless other 2 and 3-level interchanges that are scattered throughout this area as well. The fact is that most of these interchanges were built in the 1970s or earlier. Grand freeways have been a part of an American's way of life for almost fourty years or longer. Europe's simple clover-leaf and 3 to 4-level interchanges are boring and have been seen time and time again. Texas has begun, on a state-wide scale, to even integrate patterns and symbols casted into the concrete along with a variety of paint schemes into these interchanges and freeways to better fit the surrounding environment and leave a less intrusive image. Like i said, Europe can have its low capacity clover-leaf and 4-6 lane freeways, Americans are years beyond you.

[PotatoGuy]

Los Angeles

http://members.cox.net/mkpl/interchange/harborfwydtwn70.jpg

http://members.cox.net/mkpl/bridge/105_110.jpg

http://members.cox.net/mkpl/interchange/072101-710-105.jpg

http://members.cox.net/mkpl/interchange/5-101-10-60.jpg

http://members.cox.net/mkpl/interchange/110-10-k.jpg

http://members.cox.net/mkpl/interchange/tv101-5.jpg

http://members.cox.net/mkpl/interchange/5_14.jpg

http://members.cox.net/mkpl/interchange/wst5_14.jpg

Orange County

http://image.globexplorer.com/gexservlets/gex?encrypt=eXRtPCwwMDYvOTk4Njg4Njg3Myd4dG08MjIvNjk5MTUxNDU3OSd5bXM8LDAwNi85NzQ0NzI0MzU2J3htczwyMi82NjA5MTgyMjAyJ3RoZTwwMjYzOSdoaTwyNzEnaHY8NTQxJ21yPDUnYmxlPGhsYGZkJ2hlPDMwMjMxMTE5MTAnYHFxaGU8MTMxMDExVid1cjwwMDA5MDgxOTg3OTQy

http://members.cox.net/mkpl2/hist/5at55_1.jpg

http://members.cox.net/mkpl/interchange/5s-133s.jpg

(this pic is atleast 10 years old)
http://members.cox.net/mkpl/interchange/orangecrush.jpg

Inland Empire

http://members.cox.net/mkpl/interchange/15_91_2.jpg

http://members.cox.net/mkpl/interchange/15-10-2.jpg

http://image.globexplorer.com/gexservlets/gex?encrypt=eXRtPCwwMDYvNDQwNzI5MDQ5NCd4dG08MjIvOTk0NTg5MTQwJ3ltczwsMDA2LzQ1MDg4MzIyMzUneG1zPDIyLzk2ODExMzIyNjQndGhlPDAyNjM5J2hpPDI3MSdodjw1NDEnbXI8NSdibGU8aGxgZmQnaGU8MzAyMzExMTkxMCdgcXFoZTwxMzEwMTFWJ3VyPDAwMDkwODA0NTExOTY=

[txRNGr]

exactly, there are complex and advanced freeways and interchanges across the United States' urban areas. thanks for sharing Potato Guy. California, with its tight-knit cities and extensive freeway system (LA) is a prime example where freeways and interchanges had and continue to require innovation.

[PotatoGuy]

i think europes highways are better due to there youth

Athens:

http://img264.echo.cx/img264/4126/10mayatodosotep0kk.jpg

http://img263.echo.cx/img263/8523/10mayatodosrafinap4ja.jpg

http://img261.echo.cx/img261/2933/10mayatodoskantzasp7vx.jpg

Just because they're newer or prettier or w/e does not mean they are better, in fact it really has nothing to do with that. what should matter is how advanced the freeways/highways are and their capacity and such, aesthetics should have little to do with it. Allthough I will say that most new highways in Europe do look prettier than americans but it is mainly because they're newer and aren't as heavily used.

[PotatoGuy]

if we compare rural highways then the US isnt doing that bad. The reasons I can give for the condition of US highways/freeways being in the condition in which they are is that the US has thousands of more miles of highway than any european highway (therefore the money is much more scattered) and european highways are newer, most US highways were built during the 60's and 70's.

But if we compare rural highways, then the US isn't doing that bad.

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/paffairs/images/rural.jpg

(kinda looks european)
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/eihd/images/us23.jpg

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/eihd/images/ir287.jpg

http://www.empirestateroads.com/photos/steuben/cr9.jpg

http://www.sciencedaily.com/images/2004/12/041219183141.jpg

[DrJoe]

And what do you think about this spanish interchange? (located at Madrid)

http://www.sercal.es/images/centroE.jpg

As you can see, it has 4 levels, like biggest american interchanges.

This thing is downright average.

[LtBk]

Its not the freeway quality i'm worried about, it's the skill of drivers that uses them. It seems many Americans don't know how to drive on freeways, causing all kinds of problems, compared to European drivers.

[txRNGr]

what facts do you have to back such a statement. do you just conclude that because someone is born and raised in Europe that they are a better driver. furthermore, Americans drive much more than Europeans which would lead someone to conclude that Americans are the more expirenced driver. this argument seems to be just another attempt to distract the thread from the original purpose which is to debate whether European or American Highways are better. again, dispite the ability of the average American driver, the United States(and Canada for that matter) has more innovative Freeways. No one can seem to attack this postition head on so they dance around it with claims such as "Americans don't know how to drive on freeways" which is arrogant and ignorant(two words that are overly-used on this forum).

[Justme]

txRNGr, I don't disagree that the American interchanges are larger and more impressive than the European ones. As I mentioned before, I believe in this area, the U.S. highways are superior. However, I also believe that the European highways win out on their viaducts and bridges, which are equally impressive and on a larger scale than North American ones.

As for the size of the U.S. highway system being larger, that is true, but then the European highway system is far denser.

Looking at figures from the CIA world fact book:

European Union:
Area: 3,976,372km²
Total highways (paved): 4,161,381km
Total Expressways: 56,704km

United States:
Area: 9,161,923km²
Total highways (paved): 4,180,053km
Total Expressways: 74,406km

It is clear from the above, that the EU, despite being less than half the land area (2.3x smaller), it has nearly the same total length of highway as the U.S. and a more dense expressway network.

So, in my opinion, this makes both American and European highways equal. The U.S. has wider expressways in cities, with larger and more impressive interchanges. The EU has a more dense network (where some parts have unlimited speed limits) and more impressive tunnel and viaducts.

Here is a quick show of photo's of some viaducts in Europe. They are not chosen by how great they are, just a quick serach, there will no doubt be far more impressive constructions out there. Of cause, I won't put photo's of the tunnels, but there are just so many and some are very very long.

http://www.mcuniverse.com/album24/1778_sg_viaduct.jpg
http://nisee.berkeley.edu/jpg/6257_3021_1859/IMG0007.jpg
http://nisee.berkeley.edu/jpg/6257_3021_1859/IMG0008.jpg
http://nisee.berkeley.edu/jpg/6257_3021_1859/IMG0011.jpg
http://nisee.berkeley.edu/jpg/6257_3021_1859/IMG0012.jpg
http://nisee.berkeley.edu/jpg/6257_3021_1859/IMG0025.jpg
http://nisee.berkeley.edu/jpg/6257_3021_1859/IMG0024.jpg
http://www.aasens.com/images/61_041214_millau_bridge_hmed_5a.jpg
http://monitor.admin.musc.edu/~cfs/bridge/millau_viaduct.jpghttp://www.duoh.com/cms/images/uploads/millau_viaduct.jpg
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/popups/media/DAN-Foster17.jpg
http://grad.ch/images/Switzerland/traffic/highway_VD.jpg
http://www.isl.uni-karlsruhe.de/vrl/ResEng/images/highway_vevey.jpg

[Ted Ward]

One of the things I like about the U.K network is the electronic signage that tells you things like journey times - upcoming obstructions etc etc. You can also go to sites such as NADICS.org.uk and see live webcam pics from motorways if you wish.

That also brings me on to my next point - the U.K motorway network is covered by an extensive c.c.t.v network - pull over on to the hard shoulder and there will likely be a police car pulling up behind you within five minutes.

Moving on - no one has posted pictures of those 'double decker' freeways that you get in america I dont know if they are unique to america but you dont see them in europe.

Also maybe someone here can help I have heard that in america there are roads where the direction of traffic lanes can be changed i.e say there was a six lane highway in the morning it could be 4 lanes heading into the city and two out then in the afternoon four lanes heading out and two in - does anyone have any idea what I am talking about. (Someone told me they have lanes that can change direction but Ive not been able to read anything about it)

Finally there is a surprising number of road enthusiast websites on the internet (I am surprised there is any) this site is good for pictures and links. http://www.cbrd.co.uk/links/

[Justme]

Also maybe someone here can help I have heard that in america there are roads where the direction of traffic lanes can be changed i.e say there was a six lane highway in the morning it could be 4 lanes heading into the city and two out then in the afternoon four lanes heading out and two in - does anyone have any idea what I am talking about. (Someone told me they have lanes that can change direction but Ive not been able to read anything about it)


Where I come from, these are called zipper barriers, and they can be changed with the use of a machine. They are found in many parts of the world.

http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Zipper_I95_JRB_2.jpg

[Elmo]

^ That looks VERY costly. Every day you have to move the barrier twice and it looks like 3 people are necessary to use the machine.

[LtBk]

what facts do you have to back such a statement. do you just conclude that because someone is born and raised in Europe that they are a better driver. furthermore, Americans drive much more than Europeans which would lead someone to conclude that Americans are the more expirenced driver. this argument seems to be just another attempt to distract the thread from the original purpose which is to debate whether European or American Highways are better. again, dispite the ability of the average American driver, the United States(and Canada for that matter) has more innovative Freeways. No one can seem to attack this postition head on so they dance around it with claims such as "Americans don't know how to drive on freeways" which is arrogant and ignorant(two words that are overly-used on this forum).

Just because we drive more than Europeans, doesn't mean we are good drivers. There are millions of drivers who don't remember many of important rules, yet they been driving for decades. BTW, had you ever driven on Autobahn before?

[txRNGr]

LtBK: like i said before, this thread is a debate over European and American highways, not which land mass breeds better drivers...the ability of the drivers on the highways is irrelevent.

Justme: i will agree with you that Europe has some superior brigdes and tunnels(English Channel tunnel) and those pictures you posted are very impressive, the architecture looks delicate and strong at the same time, excellent. couldn't expect anything less from the continent that pioneered the first grand-scale bridges in the world. my argument is based around the functionality of thses freeways. thanks for posting those facts from the CIA website. they do prove that the European highway network must be, overall, more dense.

Ted Ward: in the United States we call it Intelligent Transporation Systems(ITS). although it doesnt sound like it might be as extensive as a nation-wide system like the UK, many US cities have or are putting these systems of dynamic message signs and closed circuit tv throughout their network where there can be a fast response time to taffic incidents and improve congestion. you can view live pics of the Dallas-Fort Worth system here http://dfwtraffic.dot.state.tx.us/ thanks for sharing that site with us Ted Ward, its very interesting to see the differences around the world. there is a site dedicated to Texas Freeways at http://www.texasfreeway.com/ it has historical and present maps and pics along with future plans for the freeways in Texas (just in case anyone gets bored). although i dont have any pictures of "double-deck" freeways, Austin, TX has a short span of a double deck on I-35. they found this type of freeway to be very unpleasant. they simply built 4 new lanes over 4 existing lanes. the old freeway is still in its original state with short on, off ramps and horrible geometrics. furthermore, its an eyesore for the surrounding community as well as being very confusing for those who are simply driving though. using this information, Texas decided to sink the US-75 freeway in dallas in a trench rather than just build on top. the result is a beautiful freeway with great capacity, good geometrics for all ramps and minimum impact on the surrounding community...we learned from our mistakes

[djm19]

a lot of american freeways are old and heavily used. combine the two and it can only mean deterioration.

[rocky]

the americans, despite being less that the europeans, have a bigger land with harder climatic conditions

so its good that they can have such highways

[BlaZ]

Looking at figures from the CIA world fact book:

United States:
Population = 295,734,134
Area: 9,161,923km²
Total highways (paved): 4,180,053km
Total Expressways: 74,406km



So i looked a bit more into the figures.

Germany:
Population = 82,431,390 = 27,8%
Area: 349,223 sq km = 3,7%
Total highways (paved): 230,735km = 5,5%
Total Expressways: 11,515km = 15,5%

Netherlands:
Population = 16,407,491 = 5,54%
Area: 33,883 sq km = 0,36%
Total highways (paved): 104,850km = 2,48%
Total Expressways: 2,235km = 3%

Europe has a much denser network. But well thats simply logical as it has more population on less space.
Per inhabitant the USA has more km of expressway and roads all together.
I'd like to see some stats of densely populated US states. I think they have denser networks then any european country. Pretty sure even.


Here some statistics proving European roads are safer generally.

http://www.factbook.net/images/HMC_deaths_per_mv.gif

Quite strange if you ask me. American roads are much wider and speedlimits are higher in most european countries. Any comments on this ?

[PotatoGuy]

One of the things I like about the U.K network is the electronic signage that tells you things like journey times - upcoming obstructions etc etc. You can also go to sites such as NADICS.org.uk and see live webcam pics from motorways if you wish.

That also brings me on to my next point - the U.K motorway network is covered by an extensive c.c.t.v network - pull over on to the hard shoulder and there will likely be a police car pulling up behind you within five minutes.

Moving on - no one has posted pictures of those 'double decker' freeways that you get in america I dont know if they are unique to america but you dont see them in europe.

Also maybe someone here can help I have heard that in america there are roads where the direction of traffic lanes can be changed i.e say there was a six lane highway in the morning it could be 4 lanes heading into the city and two out then in the afternoon four lanes heading out and two in - does anyone have any idea what I am talking about. (Someone told me they have lanes that can change direction but Ive not been able to read anything about it)

Finally there is a surprising number of road enthusiast websites on the internet (I am surprised there is any) this site is good for pictures and links. http://www.cbrd.co.uk/links/

we have that here too, in southern california you could go to sigalert.com and it gives you a map with colored freeways that shows you how congested the freeways are at the moment, theres also cameras, average speeds and a list of current accidents...

http://www.sigalert.com

[txRNGr]

a lot of american freeways are old and heavily used. combine the two and it can only mean deterioration.

thats a strange comment...im failing to see your point. there is such a thing as maintenance and reconstruction. im sure even in europe these concepts are used :| no one can honestly think that the US builds roads and then leaves them to deteriorate. there are, of course, safety regulations to prevent this. anyways, i dont feel like challenging this argument anymore until it is clairified.

[txRNGr]

So i looked a bit more into the figures.

Germany:
Population = 82,431,390 = 27,8%
Area: 349,223 sq km = 3,7%
Total highways (paved): 230,735km = 5,5%
Total Expressways: 11,515km = 15,5%

Netherlands:
Population = 16,407,491 = 5,54%
Area: 33,883 sq km = 0,36%
Total highways (paved): 104,850km = 2,48%
Total Expressways: 2,235km = 3%

Europe has a much denser network. But well thats simply logical as it has more population on less space.
Per inhabitant the USA has more km of expressway and roads all together.
I'd like to see some stats of densely populated US states. I think they have denser networks then any european country. Pretty sure even.


Here some statistics proving European roads are safer generally.

http://www.factbook.net/images/HMC_deaths_per_mv.gif

Quite strange if you ask me. American roads are much wider and speedlimits are higher in most european countries. Any comments on this ?

:sleepy: i like to think that Americans feel they are all NASCAR drivers and tend to have more fun in their cars...of course we arent all NASCAR drivers and tend to make some mistakes from time to time. based on these statistics, European roads are more dangerous than the United States. the US is fourth behind...can you guess it? yes! 3 European countries. :doh: your agrument has no standing. :hahaha:

[czm3]

:sleepy: i like to think that Americans feel they are all NASCAR drivers and tend to have more fun in their cars...of course we arent all NASCAR drivers and tend to make some mistakes from tim