Ontario Freeways

[DrJoe]

I already did a Toronto one, this one has abit more stuff from both in and out of the city.

400
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/400_cl_23_north_SB.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/400_cl_29_north.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/400_cl_214_south.jpg

401
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v339/drjoe12/401/express4014pq.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/401_cl_rouge_west.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v339/drjoe12/401/hwy2040120-20Brock20Road20Pickering20looking20west.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/401_cl_476_east.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/401_cl_474_west.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v339/drjoe12/401/401_cl_346_west.jpg

402
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/402_cl_100_west.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/402_cl_85_east.jpg

403
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v339/drjoe12/401/403_cl_longwoodsroad_west.jpg

This stack looks like its pretty damn old.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/403_cl_hwy8EB_east.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/403_cl_wchurchill_west.jpg

407 ETR

Electronic toller.
http://www.407etr.com/images/fs_photo/fs_gantry.jpg

http://www.407etr.com/images/fs_photo/fs_gantryrtc.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/407_centre_brant_west.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v339/drjoe12/401/fs_pinevall.jpg


410
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/410_cl_km2_north.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/410_cl_bovaird_south.jpg

417
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/417_cl_112_east.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/417_cl_129_west.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/417_cl_129_east.jpg

427
http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_410-427_images/427_cl_7_south.jpg


http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_410-427_images/427_cl_evans_north.jpg

Don Valley Parkway
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v339/drjoe12/401/36939751.jpg

http://img24.exs.cx/img24/2493/PICT8567.jpg

QEW

To the US
http://www.onthighways.com/QEW_images/QEW_dv_1_6_FEB.jpg

http://www.onthighways.com/QEW_images/QEW_cl_km88_FEB.jpg

http://www.onthighways.com/QEW_images/QEW_cl_km139_TB_offset.jpg

There are many others that I don't have any pics of.

[IchO]

Great work !!! Keep sendin'em

[Zaqattaq]

^ haha LionBlue.com

[DaDvD]

Amazing motorways!! Could you post a map of all them??

[el tico]

nice highways!

[DrJoe]

Amazing motorways!! Could you post a map of all them??

I can't really find a good map for Ontario, but here is around Toronto.

http://mq-mapgend.websys.aol.com/mqmapgend?MQMapGenRequest=FDR2dmwjDE%3byt29%26FDJnci4Jkqj%2cMMCJ%3aHOEvq%3bwba1r8%3a%29z15g62%3a%26%40%24%3a%26%408%3ag67%3ad67%3aTD%15JFE%3aHOHQJ%3bwb0gy8%3a%29z159yz%3a%26%40%24%3a%26%40%24x9%40

[DaDvD]

Thank you DrJoe ;)

[Skybean]

Well Done Dr. The most enjoyable thing with these expressways is the views you get from them as you speed past highrise clusters

[goravens]

better map posted below

[sonysnob]

If anyone is interested I run a website devoted to Ontario highways (coincidentally where some of Dr. Joe's pics originated). The site features pictures of both ontario highways and freeways. The URL is at http://www.onthighways.com. If interested, please have a look!

Cheers!

[ssiguy2]

That was great, thanks for the pics. There is one expressway your small map of Ont is missing. The freeway from Newcastle to Peterborough

[hkskyline]

Traffic Cameras
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/compass/

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/compass/camera/pictures/loc25.jpg

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/compass/camera/pictures/loc24.jpg

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/compass/camera/pictures/loc13.jpg

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/compass/camera/pictures/loc51.jpg

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/compass/camera/pictures/loc57.jpg

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/compass/camera/pictures/loc62.jpg

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/compass/camera/pictures/loc97.jpg

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/compass/camera/pictures/loc103.jpg

[xzmattzx]

QEW

To the US
http://www.onthighways.com/QEW_images/QEW_dv_1_6_FEB.jpg



here's a couple pictures of the buffalo skyline that i took from the duty free shop that you can see in your picture. i took these pictures in early april, when i was in the buffalo area.

http://img143.echo.cx/img143/6095/dscf13090ip.jpg

http://img143.echo.cx/img143/7717/dscf13108qh.jpg

[algonquin]

That was great, thanks for the pics. There is one expressway your small map of Ont is missing. The freeway from Newcastle to Peterborough

I think the map is of only 400 series highways, of which the Newcastle/Peterborough highway (115 I think) is not.

There's also the Hwy.8/7/85 mess through Kitchener Waterloo, which is fairly significant. Thanks SonySnob

http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_7_images/7_cl_fredrick-street_south.jpg

[Froster]

I think the point about the 35/115 is fair though because DrJoe posted pics of the Don Valley Parkway which is also not a 400-series highway (though its extension, the 404 is). The DVP is a worthy inclusion though because it is one of the most scenic highways I have even been on, though I would only recommend driving it on the weekend because of the murderous traffic during weekdays.

Another picture that is worth posting it is the view from the gardiner when travelling east past the SkyDome. The new development on either side has created a neat urban canyon along the highway.

[algonquin]

I think the point about the 35/115 is fair though because DrJoe posted pics of the Don Valley Parkway which is also not a 400-series highway (though its extension, the 404 is). The DVP is a worthy inclusion though because it is one of the most scenic highways I have even been on, though I would only recommend driving it on the weekend because of the murderous traffic during weekdays.


this is true.... but on the map, I just noticed that it doesn't include the DVP, or even the Gardiner Exp.

[DetoX]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/401_cl_474_west.jpg

As You can see in this photo, this freeway has not so good quality as it seems. In the left-bottom corner we can see some imperfections.

[DrJoe]

^ Are you f*cking serious?? All I see is some type of minor circle in the middle of the line that no one but you probably noticed. Its pretty clear that it just rained also.

[goravens]

yeah, that map is the 400 series map from wikipedia.. missing Conestoga, 174, DVP, 35/115, LINC etc.

I found the expressway map

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/78/Expressway-network_sontario.png

The expressway network in Southern Ontario, including the 400-Series Highways (blue), Provincial expressways not part of the 400-Series system (orange), and Municipal expressways (purple)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ontario_expressways

[rt_0891]

Too bad all the roads are damaged each year by salt crystals and snow :(

[algonquin]

is there anything Wikipedia can't do???? :)

[Nouvellecosse]

As You can see in this photo, this freeway has not so good quality as it seems. In the left-bottom corner we can see some imperfections.

All highways slope downward to both sides which keeps them free of excess water reducing the risk of hydroplaning. The circles that are near the of the median are drainage holes that are present in every divided highway that doesn't have a drainage ditch in the centre.

[Averill Hecht]

I thought I had some of the best Ontario Freeway pictures around, but you have me beat by a mile. I mean Kilometer!

Keep up the great work.

Averill

[DrJoe]

Well you can thank this site for the most part.

http://www.onthighways.com/index.html

[sonysnob]

A few new Ontario Freeway photos for those interested:

Highway 7
http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_7_images/7_cl_188_east.jpg


Highway 8
http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_3-9_images/8_dv_117_west.jpg

http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_3-9_images/8_cl_117-5_west.jpg


Highway 11
http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_11_images/11_cl_km304_south.jpg


Highway 420
http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_410-427_images/420_cl_1_west.jpg

[Bertez]

Very nice....but why no 409??;)

[Zaki]

Don Valley Parkway
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v339/drjoe12/401/36939751.jpg

http://img24.exs.cx/img24/2493/PICT8567.jpg



Amazing. And to think this is right in the middle of Toronto. Toronto really is a very green city.

[sonysnob]

Highway 409:

http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_407-409_images/409_cl_3-5_west.jpg

http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_407-409_images/409_cl_3-5_east.jpg

[TheCat]

Great photos!

To whomever said that the quality of the highways isn't great (I know this is
a very old thread, but still):
It is no secret that most North American highways have inferior pavement
surfaces and maintenance than many Western European highways (particularly
the infamous German autobahns).
However, these highways have much more capacity and daily traffic than most
European highways, and, in the case of Ontario highways, they also endure
very harsh winter weather that very quickly wears the road surface.
Distances are also often much larger. Ontario's highway network, as can be
seen in the maps, is not very dense, but that's because most people live in
South Ontario (particularly Greater Toronto Area) in the Horseshoe region.

[Nutterbug]

400
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/400_cl_23_north_SB.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/400_cl_29_north.jpg

401
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v339/drjoe12/401/express4014pq.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/401_cl_rouge_west.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v339/drjoe12/401/hwy2040120-20Brock20Road20Pickering20looking20west.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v339/drjoe12/401/401_cl_346_west.jpg

It is said that a rapid transit line carries the equivalent of 10 highway lanes.

Why haven't rapid transit lines been built along the corridors of these monstrosities?

[Magic Night]

I love the green and clutter-freeness. :cheers:

[10ROT]

I remember that my parents dreaded driving through 401 when in Toronto...the sheer scale and traffic was overwhelming...

The Don Valley Pkwy, when not congested, is a very nice ride down to Downtown. So green...

[algonquin]

It is said that a rapid transit line carries the equivalent of 10 highway lanes.

Why haven't rapid transit lines been built along the corridors of these monstrosities?

The 400 series highways that run through Toronto, particularly the Hwy 400 and 401, exist primarily for regional transportation. The 401 alone serves Southern Ontario's massive manufacturing economy, and connects from Michigan to Quebec. The combination of these two highways serve as the only freeway option for travel, both East/West and North/South (with the exception of the 407 that bypasses Toronto).

While I am pro-transit, and would like to see more rapid transit lines in Toronto, they would not replace these highways or diminish their scale.

[Nutterbug]

The 400 series highways that run through Toronto, particularly the Hwy 400 and 401, exist primarily for regional transportation. The 401 alone serves Southern Ontario's massive manufacturing economy, and connects from Michigan to Quebec. The combination of these two highways serve as the only freeway option for travel, both East/West and North/South (with the exception of the 407 that bypasses Toronto).

While I am pro-transit, and would like to see more rapid transit lines in Toronto, they would not replace these highways or diminish their scale.

I'm sure they don't need that many lanes for commercial traffic, nor have anywhere near that many on the rural sections of those highways. I meant it's just the portions within the GTA with the really heavy traffic and the obscene number of lanes that could have been substituted with rapid transit.

[sonysnob]

I'm sure they don't need that many lanes for commercial traffic, nor have anywhere near that many on the rural sections of those highways. I meant it's just the portions within the GTA with the really heavy traffic and the obscene number of lanes that could have been substituted with rapid transit.

I think Toronto could use additional transit lines, however as has been said, the traffic density on the areas highways probably wouldn't decrease substantially with them. Traffic volumes on the 401 have not decreased since the Sheppard Subway was opened, for example.

[rt_0891]

I'm sure they don't need that many lanes for commercial traffic, nor have anywhere near that many on the rural sections of those highways. I meant it's just the portions within the GTA with the really heavy traffic and the obscene number of lanes that could have been substituted with rapid transit.

Suburban Toronto is still too auto-centric for that to happen. There's just so many 400 series highways feeding into the 401. They include 404-DVP (Markham/Richmond Hill/Aurora/NewMarket), 400 (Vaughan to Barrie), 427/410 Mississauga/Brampton/Etobicoke, 403 Mississauga/Oakville.

Each of these highways serve a population that's greater than Surrey, and most of these suburbs in the 905 area sprawl worse than Surrey.

[Calvin W]

I'm surprised at the lack of traffic in a lot of the photos. If things are like that for the majority of the day then most of this system is overbuilt.

[rt_0891]

I'm surprised at the lack of traffic in a lot of the photos. If things are like that for the majority of the day then most of this system is overbuilt.

Nowadways, you'd be lucky if the roads are this clear on a Sunday. Usually, at least one part of the highway is closed for construction.

[Grey Towers]

I remember reading that the 401 through Toronto carries more than $1 Billion worth of goods per day, much of which heads to the world's busiest border crossing at Windsor/Detroit. Combine that volume with commuter traffic underserved by transit alternatives, and a highway this size is required. It's unfortunate Canada has such a limited rail capacity, or much of the truck freight could be put there.

[mariokarter]

I'm surprised at the lack of traffic in a lot of the photos. If things are like that for the majority of the day then most of this system is overbuilt.

ya i wonder how long someone waited to get some of those pics.



As for replacing some lanes with public transit. A lot of those highways just carry to much regional and international traffic. The corridors which the freeways run through arn't the densist parts of the GTA themselves. Most of those cars' final destinations are not in close proximity (walking distance) to a freeway corridor, so putting public transit there might not even be sustainable.

Thats sort of the reason that freeways are built where they are. Because there is available and cheep space, and little (relatively) public opposition.

[degnaw]

Suburban Toronto is still too auto-centric for that to happen.
The fact that the suburbs have more freeway than Toronto itself always bothers me. Downtown gets two 6-lane freeways (basically one through freeway), while places like York region have three or more 6-12 lane freeways without rapid transit (VIVA doesn't really count, yet).

[monkeyronin]

The fact that the suburbs have more freeway than Toronto itself always bothers me. Downtown gets two 6-lane freeways (basically one through freeway), while places like York region have three or more 6-12 lane freeways without rapid transit (VIVA doesn't really count, yet).

We'ed rather not have a ton of 10 lane freeways cutting through dowtown, thank you. It makes sense for low density suburbs to have them all.

[DrJoe]

The fact that the suburbs have more freeway than Toronto itself always bothers me. Downtown gets two 6-lane freeways (basically one through freeway), while places like York region have three or more 6-12 lane freeways without rapid transit (VIVA doesn't really count, yet).

I realize that you are talking about downtown but the 401 does cut through northern Toronto. There were significant plans to surround downtown Toronto with freeways i.e. like US cities, thankfully it never happened.

[samsonyuen]

Living next to the Gardiner Expressway, you really notice how much the situation needs to be changed. It's always clogged!

[LordMandeep]

The 401 is so busy now, that there are sometimes traffic jams from volume on sunday. Also very busy throughout Saturday and at night.

the 401 is always busy, and it should be. Its the highway that moves most of Ontario really.
The fact that the suburbs have more freeway than Toronto itself always bothers me. Downtown gets two 6-lane freeways (basically one through freeway), while places like York region have three or more 6-12 lane freeways without rapid transit (VIVA doesn't really count, yet).

You see my American Friends, this is where Canadian cities differ...Toronto doesn't have such strong inner city neighbourhoods for no reason, do you think??

[FK]

QEW
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/Fahadzkhan/DSC01783.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/Fahadzkhan/DSC01784.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/Fahadzkhan/DSC01786.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/Fahadzkhan/DSC01787.jpg


The Gardiner
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/Fahadzkhan/DSC01789.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/Fahadzkhan/DSC01792.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/Fahadzkhan/DSC01796.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/Fahadzkhan/DSC01800.jpg

Don Valley Parkway
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/Fahadzkhan/DSC01814.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/Fahadzkhan/DSC01815.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/Fahadzkhan/DSC01816.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/Fahadzkhan/DSC01817.jpg

[Marcanadian]

Nice photos everyone. I was waiting for someone to post the Gardiner. ;)

[FK]

Glad to share them !

[Breakwood]

I just noticed there are not any pictures of the 416.

[-KwK345-]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v339/drjoe12/401/express4014pq.jpg
Amazing

[-KwK345-]

Great pics FahadKhan!

[rick1016]

FahadKhan, those first couple are right near my house!!

[rick1016]

I'm near Dixie and QEW.

[sonysnob]

Some new photos:

QEW:

http://www.onthighways.com/QEW_images/QEW_cl_126_FEB.jpg

http://www.onthighways.com/QEW_images/QEW_dv_137_FEB.jpg

http://www.onthighways.com/QEW_images/QEW_cl_139_FEB.jpg


Highway 417:

http://www.thekingshighway.ca/PHOTOS-4/hwy417-40_lg.jpg

http://www.thekingshighway.ca/PHOTOS-4/hwy417-66_lg.jpg

[ChrisZwolle]

Canada’s 407 celebrates

Canada’s Highway 407 ETR celebrated the 10th anniversary of its first ever tolled trip by announcing that it recently set a new, one-day traffic record.

On Friday, October 5, a record 445,822 trips were taken on Highway 407 by those wanting to avoid congestion and ‘jump start’ their holiday weekend. This beat the previous record of 434,670 trips set on June 22, 2007.

The first day of tolling on Highway 407 was October 14, 1997 when the highway was only 36km long, stretching from Highway 410 to Highway 404. By 1999, the highway was lengthened to 68km and privatised. During the past eight years, Highway 407 has spent over C$800 million to lengthen the highway by 40km and to widen busy sections to improve traffic flow.

445,822 is that now the busiest in the world? It's way more as LA's busiest (390,000).

[go_leafs_go02]

445,822 is that now the busiest in the world? It's way more as LA's busiest (390,000).
no...not AADT over one point. The Highway is 108 km long, and the toll routes can record where someone gets off and gets on, and there is counted as one trip. So 1 trip could be between km marker #2 and km #5 and be a 3 km trip and still count as 1 trip that day.

It's a decent number, but if you think about it, really not even that impressive (in terms of congestion). It's a great highway if you want to get from Point A to Point B quickly across the top of Toronto as an alternative to the free Highway 401.

Can't imagine what the highway would be like if it were a toll-free route.

[10ROT]

Will the 407 eventually surpass the 401 as the busiest highway?

I mean, the highway is only 10 years old and it's already one of the busiest highways in North America.

Seriously, 445k is just...wow. I wouldn't want to drive on that highway.

[TheCat]

Will the 407 eventually surpass the 401 as the busiest highway?

I mean, the highway is only 10 years old and it's already one of the busiest highways in North America.

Seriously, 445k is just...wow. I wouldn't want to drive on that highway.

I doubt it. As my fellow forumer has stated, the figure is not AADT. Highway 407 cannot even be close to the peak traffic on the 401, simply because it does not even come near to the 401 in capacity (i.e. size/number of lanes). Generally, this highway is always relatively quiet, whereas the 401 is almost always in a jam at some point along the route.

[Tuscani01]

I'm near Dixie and QEW.

I had no idea you were from Mississauga.

[KGB]

445,822 is that now the busiest in the world? It's way more as LA's busiest (390,000).


Naw...that's for the entire highway...the 401 now peaks at around 500,000....for a single intersection.




KGB

[ChrisZwolle]

Naw...that's for the entire highway...the 401 now peaks at around 500,000....for a single intersection.


Are there any AADT documents about that?

[sonysnob]

No! The 2004 numbers peg it at something like 415k or so. (Forgive me if I am off its been a while since I looked up the data). Being an Ontario highway enthusiast myself, I have no idea why others continue to falsify traffic data to exaggerate traffic levels on the 401.

[ChrisZwolle]

I have no idea why others continue to falsify traffic data to exaggerate traffic levels on the 401.


That's very SSC-ish. People tend to overrate their countries/cities/highways a LOT here.

[canadave87]

Will the 407 eventually surpass the 401 as the busiest highway?

I mean, the highway is only 10 years old and it's already one of the busiest highways in North America.

Seriously, 445k is just...wow. I wouldn't want to drive on that highway.

Trust me, the 407 isn't bad at all. I drive it all the time if I want to cut across Toronto without using the 401, and it's generally a much quicker and less aggravating drive.

[TheCat]

No! The 2004 numbers peg it at something like 415k or so. (Forgive me if I am off its been a while since I looked up the data). Being an Ontario highway enthusiast myself, I have no idea why others continue to falsify traffic data to exaggerate traffic levels on the 401.

I think KGB meant that it PEAKS at that value. The average annual AADT is not 500k, and the 415k number you posted looks correct. The official MTO website states 420,800 AADT for 2004 between Weston Road and Highway 400.

Wikipedia states the following: "The 401 is one of the world's busiest highways,[9][10] with an estimated Annual Average Daily Traffic (AADT) of over 500,000 in 2006, between the Weston Road and Highway 400 interchanges in Toronto.[2]"

According to Wikipedia, then, in 2006 the AADT was 500,000 in that small (~2km) section of the highway, although the source it quotes (#2) doesn't seem to have this information, so I'm not sure about its validity.

[noob(but not really)]

401 is as wide as it is because the Richview/Crosstown/East Gardiner were never built.

http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/spare-0019-01.gif


Personally, I'd like 400 extended to the Gardiner, but in a way that won't harm the city. I'd also like to see Highway 448 (http://www.gettorontomoving.ca/Highway%20448.pdf) built, and that's it. Just for the sake of connecting a broken network and relieving some congestion. Four additional subway lines and a plethora of LRTs should take care of the rest.

[canadave87]

^^

I'm really glad that 1966 plan never happened. Sure the DVP is pretty badly overcrowded, but at the same time it's a hell of a lot better than having half a dozen highways criss-crossing central Toronto. Though that Queen subway... I wish!

And out of curiosity, do you know why the Spadina side of the Y-U-S line is highlighted on that top map?

Finally, because no one has given it any love yet:

Highway 115

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/mennnc1701/35_cl_0-8_south.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/mennnc1701/7-115_ashburnhamroad_south.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/mennnc1701/115_cl_27_north.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/mennnc1701/115_cl_clarkerd5_north.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/mennnc1701/115_dv_45_north.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/mennnc1701/115_cl_41_east.jpg

[KGB]

I think KGB meant that it PEAKS at that value.

I think so too..perhaps it's why he used the word "peaks". Perhaps these two jolly chaps who accused him of "falsifying" data don't know the difference?




KGB

[TheCat]

^^ Well, all the available data is up to 2004, so strictly speaking, it is possible that nowadays the average AADT in that section is close to 500k.

[KGB]

^^

Are you sure we aren't just being very SSC-ish...falsfying and exaggerating data for the purpose of overrating a highway? It is what we do a LOT of here, you know.




KGB

[sonysnob]

I know because I am in school to work with this type of data professionally. an aadt can't be a peak value because it is a daily average for the year, by definition. Perhaps there are days where there are 500,000vpd on the highway, though there isn't any supporting MTO documentation that I have seen to verify that, but an aadt of anything above 415,000 or so is made up. period.

[sonysnob]

^^ Well, all the available data is up to 2004, so strictly speaking, it is possible that nowadays the average AADT in that section is close to 500k.

No its not. traffic can't grow that substantially in two and a half years. Look at the data to see how long its taken to jump from 300,000 to 400,000.

[ChrisZwolle]

I agree sonysnob. AADT stands for Annual Average Daily traffic. Mostly worked out to workdays (monday - friday).

20% growth is highly unlikely in 2 years. Such growths are only possible on roads with low AADT which have a new neighborhood or a new connecting road at the road.

[jaetguz]

Truly amazing!...Beautiful!

[kingsdl76]

The 401 is so busy now, that there are sometimes traffic jams from volume on sunday. Also very busy throughout Saturday and at night.

the 401 is always busy, and it should be. Its the highway that moves most of Ontario really.


You see my American Friends, this is where Canadian cities differ...Toronto doesn't have such strong inner city neighbourhoods for no reason, do you think??

Well...my gut reaction to your statement is....I guess you've never been to NYC, San Franciso, Boston, Chicago etc....all these cities have great urban neighborhoods. NYC completely destroys Toronto on every urban level possible. I also find the nightlife in several larger American cities to be more exciting than Toronto. So maybe Canada doesnt differ from the US as much as you like to think. My second point would be that you cant even compare urban Canada to urban US. There's just so many more large cities in the US. The population in the US is so much larger. The entire country of Canada has a smaller population than California!! I'm sure that you can think of a few US cities that have intrusional highway systems, but thats in large part due to the fact that there's so many large cities in this country to pick from. I could say that its easy to have nice large cities in Canada when you only have 2 cities with more than a million people!...but I wont because I love Canada!!....but I just had to point that fact out to you.

[kingsdl76]

445,822 is that now the busiest in the world? It's way more as LA's busiest (390,000).

Not to get into a city vs city thing....but....Toronto cant even begin to compare with the amount of traffic that the Los Angeles freeway system gets....not by a longshot. I realize that heavy freeway traffic is not really a quality of a city that you want to brag about either....but...for the sake of comparison its fun.
For starters, the 405 actually has traffic volumes of over 400,000 vehicles per/day and the 110, which is a close second is probably approaching 400k as well. Additionally, did you know that there are about 20 other areas in the LA system that have well over 300k per/day?!!....and who knows how many more approaching the 300k mark. Toronto may have one freeway that is busier than one LA freeway but thats because Toronto, comparatively, has so few freeways. Here is the official traffic count from 2002 for the LA area...and this only includes a fraction of all the freeways in the LA area...and this is 5 years ago!!

Los Angeles - Orange County - Riverside - San Bernardino - Ventura:

I-5 - San Diego/Orange County Line: 171,000 - 8 lanes
I-5 - Aveindo Pico - San Clemente: 203,000 - 8 lanes
I-5 - CA 1- San Juan Capistrano & Dana Point: 248,000 - 8 lanes
I-5 - Avery Pkwy - Mission Viejo: 268,000 - 12 lanes??
I-5 - Oso Pkwy - Mission Viejo: 314,000 - 12 lanes??
I-5 - Lake Forest Dr - Lake Forest: 364,000 - 16 lanes??
I-5 - I-405 - Irvine: 396,000: 18 lanes??
I-5 - Jamboree Rd - Irvine: 298,000 lanes???
I-5 - CA 55 - Tustin: 331,000 lanes???
I-5 - CA 22 & 57 - Orange: 351,000 lanes??
I-5 - CA 91 - Anaheim: 245,000 lanes??
I-5 - Firestone Blvd - Norwalk: 191,000 - 8 lanes??
I-5 - I-605 - Santa Fe Springs: 253,000 - 8 lanes
I-5 - I-710 - Los Angeles: 271,000 - 8 lanes
I-5 - I-10 - Los Angeles: 243,000 - 8 lanes??
I-5 - Stadium Way - Los Angeles: 304,000 - 10 lanes
I-5 - Roscoe Blvd - Sun Valley: 195,000 - 8 lanes
I-5 - CA 170 - Sun Valley: 311,000 - 14 lanes
I-5 - Mission Hills Blvd - Mission Hills: 154,000 - 6 lanes
I-5 - I-210 - Sylmar: 310,000 - 16 lanes (4 truck lanes)
I-5 - Calgrove Blvd - Santa Clarita - 226,000 - 8 lanes
I-5 - CA 126 - Santa Clarita - 174,000 - 8 lanes
I-5 - Top of the Grapevine - 79,000 - 8 lanes

I-105 – CA 1/Sepulveda Blvd – Los Angeles: 94,000
I-105 – East of I-405 – Lennox: 207,000
I-105 – Crenshaw Blvd – Inglewood: 252,000
I-105 – East of I-110 – Los Angeles: 243,000
I-105 – Wilmington Ave – Willowbrook: 220,000
I-105 – East of I-710 – Lynwood: 178,000
I-105 – I-605 – Norwalk: 195,000


I-405 - CA 133 - Irvine: 220,000 - 12 lanes
I-405 - Jamboree Rd - Irvine: 271,000 - 12 lanes
I-405 - CA 55 - Costa Mesa: 303,000
I-405 - Beach Blvd - Huntington Beach: 251,000
I-405 - CA 22 - Westminster: 394,000
I-405 - Palo Verde Ave - Long Beach: 271,000
I-405 - I-710 - Long Beach: 297,000
I-405 - I-110 - Carson: 272,000
I-405 - I-105 - Inglewood: 340,000
I-405 - CA 90 - Marina Del Ray: 314,000
I-405 - Santa Monica Blvd - Los Angeles: 321,000
I-405 - U.S. 101 - Los Angeles: 278,000
I-405 - Sherman Way - Los Angeles: 229,000
I-405 - Between CA 118 and I-5: 140,000

I-605 - I-405 - Seal Beach - 194,000
I-605 - Carson St - Lakewood - 237,000
I-605 - CA 91 - Cerritos - 309,000
I-605 - I-5 - 306,000
I-605 - Whittier Blvd - Whittier - 253,000
I-605 - I-10 - Baldwin Park - 219,000
I-605 - I-210 - Irwindale: 130,000

I-10 – Pico Blvd – Santa Monica: 204,000
I-10 – East of I-405 – Los Angeles: 263,000
I-10 – La Brea Ave – Los Angeles: 283,000
I-10 – Western Ave – Los Angeles: 323,000
I-10 – West of I-110 – Los Angeles: 339,000
I-10 – Santa Fe. Ave – Los Angeles: 290,000
I-10 – I-710 – Monterey Park: 255,000
I-10 – Del Mar Ave – Alhambra: 255,000
I-10 – Garvey Ave – El Monte: 221,000
I-10 – East of I-605 – Baldwin Park: 262,000
I-10 – CA 39/Azusu Ave – West Covina: 239,000
I-10 – Via Verde: 209,000
I-10 – CA 57 & 71 (former I-210) – Pomona: 282,000
I-10 – Central Ave – Montclair: 267,000
I-10 – West of I-15 – Ontario: 265,000
I-10 – Sierra Ave – Fontana: 190,000
I-10 – West of I-215 – Colton: 179,000
I-10 – Waterman Ave – San Bernardino: 195,000
I-10 – California St – Redlands: 172,000
I-10 – San Timoteo Canyon Rd: 67,000
I-10 – At CA 60 freeway: 101,000

I-110 (Also CA 110)
I-110 – CA 47/Vincent Thomas Bridge: 70,000
I-110 – CA 1 PCH – Wilmington: 139,000
I-110 – I-405: 250,000
I-110 – CA 91 Artesia Freeway - Los Angeles: 205,000
I-110 – El Segundo Blvd – Los Angeles: 252,000
I-110 – I-105 – Los Angeles: 308,000
I-110 – Florence Ave – Los Angeles: 320,000
I-110 – North of I-10 – Los Angeles: 351,000
I-110 – Olympic Blvd – Los Angeles: 371,000
I-110 – South of U.S. 101 – Los Angeles: 349,000
I-110 – Dodger Stadium – Los Angeles: 191,000
CA 110 – North of I-5 – Los Angeles: 135,000
CA 110 – Avenue 60 – Highland Park: 105,000
CA 110 – Bridewell St – South Pasadena: 89,000
CA 110 – End of Freeway – Pasadena: 48,000

I-210/CA 210(DOES NOT include 210 extension into San Bernardino County)

I-210 – I-5 – 78,000
I-210 – West of CA 118 frwy – Los Angeles: 124,000
I-210 – Wheatland Ave – Los Angeles: 107,000
I-210 – Lowell Ave – Glendale: 139,000
I-210 – West of CA 2 frwy – 168,000
I-210 – Foothill Blvd – La Canada Flintridge: 105,000
I-210 – North of CA 134 & CA 110 interchange - Pasadena: 138,000
I-210 – East of CA 134 & CA 110 - Pasadena: 328,000
I-210 – Allen Ave – Pasadena: 322,000
I-210 – East of CA 164/Rosemead Blvd – Pasadena: 273,000
I-210 – West of I-605 – Duarte: 256,000
I-210 – Vernon Ave – Azusa: 209,000
I-210 – Former CA 30 Frwy (Now CA 210 Extension): 187,000

(Note: Traffic counts for CA 210 will be available in 2004)

......let that sink in for awhile!!

[sonysnob]

Don't turn this into a different pissing match. In terms of the shear volume of vehicles on the shear number of freeways Toronto doesn't even come close to La. -- Or that of most US cities to be quite frank. However, your data does indeed agree with the claim that Toronto's 401 is indeed the busiest freeway in North America, and quite likely the world.

[noob(but not really)]

I'm really glad that 1966 plan never happened. Sure the DVP is pretty badly overcrowded, but at the same time it's a hell of a lot better than having half a dozen highways criss-crossing central Toronto.

Richview would've been disastrous, as well as Spadina. The Crosstown also would've been bad, but there are ways to make it work now. I don't think it's worth it though. East Gardiner(Scarborough) could've worked under the 1973 plan, but it wouldn't now, and I'm also glad that didn't happen.

400 though, should be completed. That thing would not be like Spadina at all. Hwy 448 would be in a hydro corridor, and have few interchanges.



Though that Queen subway... I wish!

It can still happen, and it should.



And out of curiosity, do you know why the Spadina side of the Y-U-S line is highlighted on that top map?

Spadina wasn't completed at that time.

[canadave87]

Richview would've been disastrous, as well as Spadina. The Crosstown also would've been bad, but there are ways to make it work now. I don't think it's worth it though. East Gardiner(Scarborough) could've worked under the 1973 plan, but it wouldn't now, and I'm also glad that didn't happen.

400 though, should be completed. That thing would not be like Spadina at all. Hwy 448 would be in a hydro corridor, and have few interchanges.

Agreed on the 448, for sure, that would definitely ease some of the pressure on the DVP. The 400 I can definitely see the reasoning behind, I just think it would be a lot harder to build without disturbing that side of the city.

I don't know the planning history, but just from looking at images on Google Maps, it looks like the corridor for the 400 runs down where Black Creek Dr. is now, right? That section looks easy enough to convert to a limited-access highway, but where would it go once it got past Weston? I don't see any corridor that a 6-land highway could run down.

[TheCat]

Agreed on the 448, for sure, that would definitely ease some of the pressure on the DVP. The 400 I can definitely see the reasoning behind, I just think it would be a lot harder to build without disturbing that side of the city.

I don't know the planning history, but just from looking at images on Google Maps, it looks like the corridor for the 400 runs down where Black Creek Dr. is now, right? That section looks easy enough to convert to a limited-access highway, but where would it go once it got past Weston? I don't see any corridor that a 6-land highway could run down.

Yes, Black Creek Dr. is in fact designed in a way that allows it to be converted to a freeway easily. It has enough land around the intersections to convert them to interchanges. Past Weston requires some creativity. A tunnel would be a good idea, but there is no way there'll be enough money to do something like this anytime soon.

[TheCat]

^^

Are you sure we aren't just being very SSC-ish...falsfying and exaggerating data for the purpose of overrating a highway? It is what we do a LOT of here, you know.




KGB

Not at all, I am not familiar with the trends of AADT growth very well, as I am not an expert in this area. I merely saw on Wikipedia the following quote: "The 401 is one of the world's busiest highways, with an estimated Annual Average Daily Traffic (AADT) of over 500,000 in 2006, between the Weston Road and Highway 400 interchanges in Toronto." However, the source it quotes has no such data, and therefore I am skeptical, and guess that this value was made up.

[canadave87]

Yes, Black Creek Dr. is in fact designed in a way that allows it to be converted to a freeway easily. It has enough land around the intersections to convert them to interchanges. Past Weston requires some creativity. A tunnel would be a good idea, but there is no way there'll be enough money to do something like this anytime soon.

That's what I figured.

A tunnel would be a good idea, I think... much better than trying to jam a surface highway in there. 'Course it raises the problems of things like ventilation, getting vehicles out of the tunnel, avoiding the Bloor subway, etc, etc.

[algonquin]

NYC completely destroys Toronto on every urban level possible.

That's a joke. I wonder why Jane Jacobs snubbed NYC for Toronto then...


I also find the nightlife in several larger American cities to be more exciting than Toronto. So maybe Canada doesnt differ from the US as much as you like to think. My second point would be that you cant even compare urban Canada to urban US. There's just so many more large cities in the US. The population in the US is so much larger. The entire country of Canada has a smaller population than California!! I'm sure that you can think of a few US cities that have intrusional highway systems, but thats in large part due to the fact that there's so many large cities in this country to pick from. I could say that its easy to have nice large cities in Canada when you only have 2 cities with more than a million people!...but I wont because I love Canada!!....but I just had to point that fact out to you.

The US obviously has far more large cities than Canada, but have a look through some recent photo threads around here... a good number of these cities are rotting from the inside out. Also, most of these cities have a ridiculous amount of freeways running around and through them.

[LordMandeep]

the question is about the 401 alone with it sheer size, its 14-18 lanes wide in its entire stretch across North Toronto.

[TheCat]

That's what I figured.

A tunnel would be a good idea, I think... much better than trying to jam a surface highway in there. 'Course it raises the problems of things like ventilation, getting vehicles out of the tunnel, avoiding the Bloor subway, etc, etc.

The main problem is just the funding. Such a project would be unimaginably expensive, especially in a completely built-up area. Such tunnels do exist around the world, and most of the concerns you raised are manageable, but of course, with considerable costs :)

[sonysnob]

That's a joke. I wonder why Jane Jacobs snubbed NYC for Toronto then...



The US obviously has far more large cities than Canada, but have a look through some recent photo threads around here... a good number of these cities are rotting from the inside out. Also, most of these cities have a ridiculous amount of freeways running around and through them.

It kind of drives me crazy that freeways get blamed for urban blight. Yes, sometimes they can cut up neighborhoods, but the urban decline seems to have a lot more to do with North America's fixation on newer and bigger homes than urban freeways.

[ChrisZwolle]

Not at all, I am not familiar with the trends of AADT growth very well, as I am not an expert in this area. I merely saw on Wikipedia the following quote: "The 401 is one of the world's busiest highways, with an estimated Annual Average Daily Traffic (AADT) of over 500,000 in 2006, between the Weston Road and Highway 400 interchanges in Toronto." However, the source it quotes has no such data, and therefore I am skeptical, and guess that this value was made up.

Like i said in other topics, Wikipedia stinks as a source, and is full of people like here on SSC, trying to make their country/city/road look better.

AADT growths are surely not 20% in 2 years. Especially not in such great numbers as the 401 AADT.

In the Netherlands, where traffic is considered to grow at a fast rate, it increases about 0 - 4% per year, depending on location.

[algonquin]

It kind of drives me crazy that freeways get blamed for urban blight. Yes, sometimes they can cut up neighborhoods, but the urban decline seems to have a lot more to do with North America's fixation on newer and bigger homes than urban freeways.

oh for sure, there are alot of factors. It's a wonderfully complicated science.

Back to the topic at hand... I once sat on the concrete median at the 401 & 400, and I lost count at around a million :P

[10ROT]

^^ Damn. Good thing you're alive! :D

[kingsdl76]

That's a joke. I wonder why Jane Jacobs snubbed NYC for Toronto then...



The US obviously has far more large cities than Canada, but have a look through some recent photo threads around here... a good number of these cities are rotting from the inside out. Also, most of these cities have a ridiculous amount of freeways running around and through them.

No.....thats not a joke. Toronto's great but its nowhere near the city that New York is and I realize thats my opinion and you may not agree and thats fine. As far as Jane Jacobs, wow......I couldnt care less about what she thought...BUT....she actually moved to Canada during the Vietnam era because she was fearful that her sons were going to be drafted. Oh and since you like to look at pics of US cities.....keep looking because you'll find plenty more that are gorgeous and not "rotting from the inside" as you say. By the way, how many cities in the US have you visited?

[kingsdl76]

Don't turn this into a different pissing match. In terms of the shear volume of vehicles on the shear number of freeways Toronto doesn't even come close to La. -- Or that of most US cities to be quite frank. However, your data does indeed agree with the claim that Toronto's 401 is indeed the busiest freeway in North America, and quite likely the world.

Yes, you're right, I dont disagree that the 401 is busier than any 'single' freeway in the LA system. I was just pointing out that there's so much more traffic overall in the LA area.

[KGB]

Wikipedia stinks as a source, and is full of people like here on SSC, trying to make their country/city/road look better.

I wish you would stop incinuating people are making shit up in some attempt to make "something look better". I was accused of this because people simply can't read (something this site IS full of).

If the AADT in 2004 was 420,800 at it's busiest section, it's pretty common sense that it would peak at 500k or more quite often.

With the massive growth in the GTA, traffic would almost certainly have increased on the 401. Since peak hours put it at capacity, people choose to travel on it at off-peak hours and weekends. I'm not claiming the official AADT is now 500k, but given the factors, it is not out of the question as a possibility.



I was just pointing out that there's so much more traffic overall in the LA area.

Well, that's just stating the obvious...Toronto has less people and a much higher percentage of trips on transit as opposed to vehicles.

The 401 has freaky numbers because it is not just a "another" commuter highway...it's also the main artery of the entire Quebec-Windsor corridor, carrying travelers cross-province, cross-country, as well as cross-border between the USA and Canada. A lot of it's vehicles are trucks carrying the bulk of goods between the world's largest trading partners.




http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9599/highway401missqj6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)




KGB

[algonquin]

The 401 has freaky numbers because it is not just a "another" commuter highway...it's also the main artery of the entire Quebec-Windsor corridor, carrying travelers cross-province, cross-country, as well as cross-border between the USA and Canada. A lot of it's vehicles are trucks carrying the bulk of goods between the world's largest trading partners.

KGB

Which, I'll add, is why Torontonians (and Ontarioaianianians) exhibit a degree of pride in this highway.


Well said KGB. :applause: That's a bitchin photo, I can't imagine how you climbed up that light standard, but it was well worth it.

[algonquin]

No.....thats not a joke. Toronto's great but its nowhere near the city that New York is and I realize thats my opinion and you may not agree and thats fine. As far as Jane Jacobs, wow......I couldnt care less about what she thought...BUT....she actually moved to Canada during the Vietnam era because she was fearful that her sons were going to be drafted. Oh and since you like to look at pics of US cities.....keep looking because you'll find plenty more that are gorgeous and not "rotting from the inside" as you say. By the way, how many cities in the US have you visited?

I'll concede that saying that your statement was a joke was being entirely histrionic on my part, but I still believe that on some points it's false, or that at least it's an apples to oranges comparison. We'll leave it be, unless the mods decide to bring city vs city back again :)

Good point about Jane Jacobs, but she did stay here unlike many Americans at the time, and she was often outspoken about the quality of life (and urbanity) of Toronto. Interestingly enough (and to bring us right back to the point at hand) she was pivotal in stopping a particular highway being built through inner-city Toronto, which was the ultimate catalyst for preventing a series of highways from being built. It's actually written in the cities planning rules that no more expressways can be built. I can't over emphasize how important she was to Toronto.

I know there are lots of cities in the US that are not rotting away, but you must admit that theres an inordinate amount that are.

I've had the pleasure of visiting Boston, Manhattan, Brooklyn, Washington DC (twice), Seattle, parts of Detroit, and Las Vegas. Plus countless smaller ones; I don't remember them all because I've been to about 25 states, some when I was a teenager. My memory of Boston is pretty foggy; Seattle I only drove to the airport.

The funny thing about NYC... I was immediately struck at how much it reminded me of Toronto - but Toronto on steroids. Lots and lots of steroids. I was pleasantly surprised by Brooklyn (I stayed near Prospect Park, on the north side near that plaza with the Library... can't remember it's name). New York is awesome.

[10ROT]

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9599/highway401missqj6.jpg



WOW. That's one hell of a photo. :cheers:

I may be wrong, but counting the off and on-ramps...that 22 lanes there!

This is in Missisauga, right? It looks like it's in the area where the 401 is next to the airport.

[LordMandeep]

the 401 is the back bone of Ontario and the real only way to get across the entire Toronto area....

[sonysnob]

If the AADT in 2004 was 420,800 at it's busiest section, it's pretty common sense that it would peak at 500k or more quite often.

You are missing the point. You can't have a peak aadt. It is by definition a yearly average -- one figure for the entire year. Could there be days where there are 500,000 vehicles on one particualar stretch of highway? Sure, and few would dispute that possibility; however claiming a peak aadt of 500,000 means that the terminology isn't understand, which certainly suggests this figure doesn't come from a reputable source.

[Steeltown]

Ontario's newest freeway opens next month, November 3rd, Red Hill Creek Expressway.

http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/87E171D8-476A-4716-98D1-DFD73DB1DA0F/0/100_0647.jpg

http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/422703A8-616F-40F6-A906-46AA0708F536/0/ParkwayKingQueenston.jpg

http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/5EA1E553-0B0E-47E5-A5E4-5C41BEC9A88C/0/Escarpment1April2005.jpg

[kingsdl76]

..

[xzmattzx]

Ontario's newest freeway opens next month, November 3rd, Red Hill Creek Expressway.

That should cut down the time to go around Hamilton for people heading west towards Brantford and London or from Brantford to the Niagara Peninsula, correct?

[Steeltown]

Yep, it'll shave off time and take trucks off local roads as Hamilton will have a complete ring road.

[go_leafs_go02]

That should cut down the time to go around Hamilton for people heading west towards Brantford and London or from Brantford to the Niagara Peninsula, correct?
yeah...the local TV crew took a trip down it.

Time it takes with the highway - 5 minutes

Time it takes now with taking surface arterial roads - 16.5 minutes.

So you'll be shaving off on average 10 or so minutes.

can't wait to see the road open!

[Skybean]

That's a bitchin photo, I can't imagine how you climbed up that light standard, but it was well worth it.

I agree.. a great picture. I'm still in awe w.r.t the photo... it must have been quite daunting to climb all the way up there... nevermind getting past 10+ lanes of highway traffic to reach the standard. It's wide but this stretch of Mississauga is still congested... all cars halt to a standstill every weekday.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9599/highway401missqj6.jpg

[xzmattzx]

Are they extending 406 south towards Welland? I drove along it in August 2006 and it looked like they were making some cloverleafs south of where it turns into a surface street through farmland.

[sonysnob]

^^ The extended the freeway about 7km south of where it narrowed before, including one new interchange, at Road 20.

I agree.. a great picture. I'm still in awe w.r.t the photo... it must have been quite daunting to climb all the way up there... nevermind getting past 10+ lanes of highway traffic to reach the standard. It's wide but this stretch of Mississauga is still congested... all cars halt to a standstill every weekday.

It's a fantastic photo, but I think it was probably taken from an airplane, no?

[isaidso]

I could say that its easy to have nice large cities in Canada when you only have 2 cities with more than a million people!...but I wont because I love Canada!!....but I just had to point that fact out to you.

If you want to talk about facts, then do your research first. There are actually 6 cities in Canada over 1 million. Another point: the 401 is the busiest highway in the world, but LA has a larger highway system than Toronto. Both are true, but we all know that already. Why bring it up?

[LordMandeep]

i think the guy from LA was saying is that we really have one big highway going east and west with so much traffic (okay two more but one is a toll and the other only goes to the DVP), while in LA there are many that go east-west and have very very high traffic...

[canadalover]

I wish we had great highway like this in Quebec!

[isaidso]

i think the guy from LA was saying is that we really have one big highway going east and west with so much traffic (okay two more but one is a toll and the other only goes to the DVP), while in LA there are many that go east-west and have very very high traffic...

Yes, I know. My point was that rather than acknowledging that the 401 was massive, he seemed more interested in trumpetting LA. It was rather petty, since we're all aware of LA's highway system.

It would be like us visiting a California site discussing that LA had the busiest highway system in the world, and a Canadian saying that LA's largest freeway is no match for what we have here in Toronto. There are better ways to share information than cutting down one acheivement to bolster another. What he did is called bragging and it doesn't go over well regardless of who is doing it.

[kingsdl76]

Yes, I know. My point was that rather than acknowledging that the 401 was massive, he seemed more interested in trumpetting LA. It was rather petty, since we're all aware of LA's highway system.

It would be like us visiting a California site discussing that LA had the busiest highway system in the world, and a Canadian saying that LA's largest freeway is no match for what we have here in Toronto. There are better ways to share information than cutting down one acheivement to bolster another. What he did is called bragging and it doesn't go over well regardless of who is doing it.

I just got back from a wedding so I havent been on here for awhile. I see my post provoked a couple of responses!!!

First of all, I was NOT "trumpeting" LA, if you read my entire post you'll see that I wrote that I DONT believe that massive amounts of freeway traffic are a urban quality to be proud of. I just was making the comparison for the fun of comparison!! :) I was simply responding to another post that stated that traffic levels on the 401 are far larger than the 405 in LA.....this is not true and I pointed out some updated numbers. I also agreed, in a subsequent post, that the 401 does indeed have higher numbers than any 'single' LA freeway but traffic in the LA region is FAR heavier.....thats it!....can you handle that one?? :lol:
Lastly, its you that should do some research. There ARE only 2 cities in Canada with more than a million people....Toronto and Montreal. However, there are 6 "Metropolitan Areas" in Canada that exceed 1 million...but not cities. Theres quite a difference between a Metropolitan area and a city....you should study up on it.

Ciao!!

[kingsdl76]

i think the guy from LA was saying is that we really have one big highway going east and west with so much traffic (okay two more but one is a toll and the other only goes to the DVP), while in LA there are many that go east-west and have very very high traffic...

You are absolutely right!! Thats all I was saying and thank you for not getting defensive like isaidso did. I certainly was not 'cutting' down the achievement of the 401 or bragging about the traffic of LA. I hate traffic in LA!! Take care bud.

[Grey Towers]

Traffic volume and large freeways are no cause for boasting, but people tend to be proud of having the largest, longest, tallest, etc., of something, anything, even when it's something ugly and regressive.

[LordMandeep]

the state of the 401 today was caused by the fact we did not want to build more highways in Toronto...

Nonetheless i rather have a 16 lane highway then another highway crossing Eglinton .

[sonysnob]

Most recent 400-series freeway to open:

http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_404-406_images/406_cl_10_north_lg.jpg

[Gil]

^^Where is that? The Red Hill Creek Expressway doesn't open for a few days and it's not a 400-series highway.

[10ROT]

Damn, Ontario is still making freeways?

Down here, making even a 10km highway is impossible thanks to NIMBYs.

[TheCat]

^^ Not as much as you'd think :) But Ontario still needs freeways in its southern regions, and some of its northern regions too, and there is a plan of extension of the 400-series, even though it'll probably get implemented in the course of many years (or decades?). Toronto, on the other hand, probably won't get any new freeways.

[go_leafs_go02]

^^Where is that? The Red Hill Creek Expressway doesn't open for a few days and it's not a 400-series highway.
I was positive it was the 410 north extension.

but on second look. It is the 406 widening.

It's about time. Finally completed. I took some pictures back in July, but never returned.

Can't wait to drive on it..some day, some time.

[10ROT]

^^ Not as much as you'd think :) But Ontario still needs freeways in its southern regions, and some of its northern regions too, and there is a plan of extension of the 400-series, even though it'll probably get implemented in the course of many years (or decades?). Toronto, on the other hand, probably won't get any new freeways.

Cool, thanks for explanation.

It makes sense, outside of the Toronto area, the highway system is actually kind of sparse. At least you guys have a plan....down in Connecticut, there are no real serious plans.

[TheCat]

This is the freeway extension plan for Southern Ontario, according to Wikipedia. The blue lines represent freeways already built, and the red ones represent freeways to be built in the future:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Expressway-network-future.png/800px-Expressway-network-future.png

[sonysnob]

This is the freeway extension plan for Southern Ontario, according to Wikipedia. The blue lines represent freeways already built, and the red ones represent freeways to be built in the future:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Expressway-network-future.png/800px-Expressway-network-future.png

Like a lot of things about roads in Ontario on Wikipedia, this map is very overzealous. Probably about half the proposed lines on the map are little more than pipedreams at this point. The photo above is of the 406 just south of Beaverdams Road.

[TheCat]

^^ No doubt, but no harm in a little optimism :)
Even if half of this is built, it's good.

[sonysnob]

Went out for a walk on the new expressway tonight. I took a bunch of
photos which will be uploaded to a new page onto OntHighways, but I
thought I'd share a few of the highlights

First, the highway will indeed be signed as the Red Hill Valley Parkway:
Shield:
http://www.onthighways.com/Hamilton/RHVP_Oct07_1_lg.jpg

Overhead sign at the Greenhill Road diamond interchange:
http://www.onthighways.com/Hamilton/RHVP_Oct07_2_lg.jpg

Looking north from just north of the Mud Street interchange:
http://www.onthighways.com/Hamilton/RHVP_Oct07_3_lg.jpg

Looks more like a freeway from alberta than one from ontario if you
ask me...

Scott

[Verso]

^^ Wow, shiny crashbarriers! :D It really looks good. It's nice to watch a new freeway in Canada. :)

[Steeltown]

Thanks for the photos of the Red Hill Expressway! From the looks of it you'll be able to get a great shot of TO's skyline from the top of the expressway.

The expressway opens next week on Nov 6th I believe. There's going to be a gaint marathon for Nov 2, 3, 4, and 5th of Nov along the Red Hill.

http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/56066B06-6C0E-4B80-8CB0-71FAA9ACF85F/0/ThumbRedHillInvite_Spec.jpg
OFFICIAL OPENING CEREMONIES

Saturday November 3, 2007, 2:00PM

[xzmattzx]

The 406 extension looks nice. I'll have to try it out sometime.

From the looks of that map, they are planning on making an expressway through the southern Niagara region, correct? What is the probability of that hapening? How much time would you estimate it will cut down on a drive from Fort Erie to Hamilton or Brantford if built?

[Steeltown]

That would be the Mid Peninsula highway. During Mike Harris days the highway got a stamp of approval and even got money to build but Dalton McGunity got elected and he halted the highway idea with re-initiating yet another full environmental assessment, which is still currently taking place, been 4 years now. The Mid Peninsula highway idea has even reserved the name……Highway 408.

I think in 2008 we're suppose to get the complete environmental assessment and it'll be up to Dalton on what to do.

[go_leafs_go02]

Can't wait to drive on the Red Hill. Shocking a nice highway. Hamilton surprises me that way, by actually doing a great job on expressways in design and upkeep, but the rest of the city's roads are a disgrace in many spots.

As for that map. those Highways surrounding London, if they ever get built? I will be very surprised..though it is desperately needed.

[isaidso]

I also agreed, in a subsequent post, that the 401 does indeed have higher numbers than any 'single' LA freeway but traffic in the LA region is FAR heavier.....thats it!....can you handle that one?? :lol:
Lastly, its you that should do some research. There ARE only 2 cities in Canada with more than a million people....Toronto and Montreal. However, there are 6 "Metropolitan Areas" in Canada that exceed 1 million...but not cities. Theres quite a difference between a Metropolitan area and a city....you should study up on it.

Ciao!!

We all know about the LA freeway network. Save it for some other thread. Regarding population figures, you may have done some research regarding population of cities, but you don't seem to have understood the relevance of population figures as it relates to highways. City population is irrelevant. Freeways are built in response to metro areas, not city boundaries. A city population is absolutely pointless to bring up. A city population is merely a political jurisdiction and fails completely to take into account the actual number of people in an area. In many cities you can walk across the street and you are in another 'city'. I lived in downtown Montreal. The house 40 feet across from mine was in a different city. Are you trying to say the highway system is only used by people on one side of this city line? Ridiculous.

I've studied plenty. You've studied something, but failed to understand what you were reading. Being in possession of facts is useless if you don't understand what they mean.

[TheCat]

Went out for a walk on the new expressway tonight. I took a bunch of
photos which will be uploaded to a new page onto OntHighways, but I
thought I'd share a few of the highlights

...

Looks more like a freeway from alberta than one from ontario if you
ask me...

Scott

Thanks for the pics, awesome highway! I see rumble strips in the second photo, a great safety feature. Is the speed limit 80km/h along the whole route? In that picture it makes sense, as the curves along the road seem to be quite sharp.

[softee]

This is the freeway extension plan for Southern Ontario, according to Wikipedia. The blue lines represent freeways already built, and the red ones represent freeways to be built in the future:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Expressway-network-future.png/800px-Expressway-network-future.png

There are only about 40kms of two-lane highway left on highway 11 between North Bay and Barrie, a new section is under construction as we speak and the highway twinning project should be complete within 5-6 years or so.

[sonysnob]

Thanks for the pics, awesome highway! I see rumble strips in the second photo, a great safety feature. Is the speed limit 80km/h along the whole route? In that picture it makes sense, as the curves along the road seem to be quite sharp.

The speed limit is 90 at least as far north as Greenhill. There are some tight curves and the Queenston and King interchanges are pretty tight so an 80km/h limit wouldn't surprise me, through there. I think that big 80km/h sign is just for construction traffic.

[sonysnob]

Can't wait to drive on the Red Hill. Shocking a nice highway. Hamilton surprises me that way, by actually doing a great job on expressways in design and upkeep, but the rest of the city's roads are a disgrace in many spots.

You're telling me.... I think the Mohawk / Garth intersection has singlehandedly destroyed the suspension on my old car...

[kingsdl76]

We all know about the LA freeway network. Save it for some other thread. Regarding population figures, you may have done some research regarding population of cities, but you don't seem to have understood the relevance of population figures as it relates to highways. City population is irrelevant. Freeways are built in response to metro areas, not city boundaries. A city population is absolutely pointless to bring up. A city population is merely a political jurisdiction and fails completely to take into account the actual number of people in an area. In many cities you can walk across the street and you are in another 'city'. I lived in downtown Montreal. The house 40 feet across from mine was in a different city. Are you trying to say the highway system is only used by people on one side of this city line? Ridiculous.

I've studied plenty. You've studied something, but failed to understand what you were reading. Being in possession of facts is useless if you don't understand what they mean.


What you're doing now is a classic knee jerk reaction because you're wrong. It was you that was confused in the first place, but instead of admitting that, you're attempting to change the nature of the topic as well as insult my intelligence by questioning my reading comprehension. If you look at my first post, I wrote that there are 2 CITIES in Canada that have a population of over a million people. Had I stated that there are only 2 METROPOLITAN AREAS, then you would be absolutely right. I understand the difference between a city and its metropolitan area....but I thank you for leaving the definition in your post. I'll admit that you're right concerning the definition of what a city/metropolitan area is....very good. Now if you want to expand the topic to urban infrastructure or highway construction as it relates to population then thats fine....but dont try to change the subject because you initially misunderstood my post. I stated a simple fact: There are only 2 CITIES in Canada with a population of more than 1 million people......thats it....but stating that in no way indicates that I dont understand the wider subject of population/metropolitan areas and highway construction as it relates to that.

Dont get so defensive over this issue....its not really a subject deserving of that. When one does, as you have, it makes one seem a little unnecessarily insecure.

[Steeltown]

It's interesting that there are 4 lanes south bound and only 2 lanes north bound for the Red Hill Expressway. Guess the city decided to put up 2 climbing lanes for the trucks.

Garth/Mohawk got fresh new asphalt this month.

Remember the Red Hill and the Linc took the city nearly 50 years to plan and design out so the city damn well better have built top notch expressways haha.

I just noticed it's 3 lanes for the north bound and 4 lanes for the south bound, extra lane for trucks to climb up.

[isaidso]

Regarding that photo of a new highway "just north of the Mud Street interchange": is that a Hamilton area highway? It looks great, but the curve seems to be fairly severe. This won't be a 100km/h zone, I take it.

[Gil]

That would be the Mid Peninsula highway. During Mike Harris days the highway got a stamp of approval and even got money to build but Dalton McGunity got elected and he halted the highway idea with re-initiating yet another full environmental assessment, which is still currently taking place, been 4 years now. The Mid Peninsula highway idea has even reserved the name……Highway 408.

I think in 2008 we're suppose to get the complete environmental assessment and it'll be up to Dalton on what to do.

I don't know how entirely feasible this is, but I've always thought that the Mid-Peninsula should just continue where the Linc ends. Keeping with the name "Mid-Peninsula" it should end up at some extension of the 420/58 hook-up. The Greenbelt Act kinda makes crossings difficult.

[TheCat]

Regarding that photo of a new highway "just north of the Mud Street interchange": is that a Hamilton area highway? It looks great, but the curve seems to be fairly severe. This won't be a 100km/h zone, I take it.

Yeah, I noticed that too. There is an 80km/h sign there, which I think will be there to stay. And as a fellow forumer commented, the limit will probably be 90km/h, not 100.

[rick1016]

Great photos Scott, thanks!!

[Steeltown]

I don't know how entirely feasible this is, but I've always thought that the Mid-Peninsula should just continue where the Linc ends. Keeping with the name "Mid-Peninsula" it should end up at some extension of the 420/58 hook-up. The Greenbelt Act kinda makes crossings difficult.

The whole plan really is to connect the Niagara region to Hamilton's Airport and connect Hamilton Airport to Halton. If the Mid Penisula highway connects along with the Linc it won't be near Hamilton Airport.

[Steeltown]

Yeah, I noticed that too. There is an 80km/h sign there, which I think will be there to stay. And as a fellow forumer commented, the limit will probably be 90km/h, not 100.

The speed limit for the Linc is 90km/h so the Red Hill Expressway will likely be 90km/h as well. But really everyone drives 100km/h on the Linc, I've yet seen a police car patrolling the speed limit on the Linc.

[sonysnob]

The whole plan really is to connect the Niagara region to Hamilton's Airport and connect Hamilton Airport to Halton. If the Mid Penisula highway connects along with the Linc it won't be near Hamilton Airport.

It would be nice to see a new highway from the top of the Red Hill connecting to Highway 6 right where the Highway 6, Hamilton By-pass ties in. This would divert pretty much all truck traffic off of Upper James Street. Furthermore, though this is a pipe dream as well, I'd love to see Upper James Street receive a 6B designation

[Steeltown]

Here's a brid eye view of the Red Hill......

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/dahammer/redhill.jpg

[go_leafs_go02]

My house backs onto the linc... one of my housemates got a radar gun, so we spent an evening sitting on top of the retaining wall measuring speed.

Actually average speed is 105-110 on there.

Fastest we caught was 126. :P

It was night, and travel levels were somewhat low.

[ChrisZwolle]

I don't think you even get an average of 110 on a German Autobahn...

[go_leafs_go02]

I don't think you even get an average of 110 on a German Autobahn...
speed limit is 90 km/h, so 110 is 20 above.

17-20 km/h above the speedlimit is where the cops will start pulling you over.

[ChrisZwolle]

Oh ok, i thought you meant 110 MPH :lol: :D

[TheCat]

Oh ok, i thought you meant 110 MPH :lol: :D

No man, Canadians use kilometres :cheers:

[kingsdl76]

No man, Canadians use kilometres :cheers:

Yes Canada does....just like the rest of the world...and just like the US should!!!!!

[Alex Von Königsberg]

^^ Amen :)

[noob(but not really)]

Yes Canada does....just like the rest of the world...and just like the US should!!!!!

I don't think they should.

[rick1016]

Yes Canada does....just like the rest of the world...and just like the US should!!!!!

Do you have any idea what it would be like getting 300 million people to suddenly switch units?

[ChrisZwolle]

Yeah, it's not like it's Germany having miles in within the European sea of kilometers. I don't see too much problems the US having another system. There are more systems, i heard the Koreans also have another unit system.

[taiwanesedrummer36]

Yes Canada does....just like the rest of the world...and just like the US should!!!!!

Crazy Canadians.....:ohno:........

[Alex Von Königsberg]

US Customary system sucks! :D Canadians switched and now live like the rest of the civilised world. The fact is that in the time of globalisation, the rest of the world will never adopt an archaic system, so it is the USA that will need to switch to metric if it wants to succeed in global trade.

[ChrisZwolle]

I think asking that is the same as asking the Americans to adopt the Euro :D

[Steeltown]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/Aallen396/redhillphoto.jpg

[ycats]

Dont we call them highways in Canada? Freeways is what they call them in the States.

[noob(but not really)]

As a Canadian(born and raised), the only thing I use the metric system for is kilometres and and anything with the suffix litres.

Anyone have a map of Red Hill?

[Steeltown]

I'll try and find a map of the Red Hill Expressway.

The expressway, erm parkway (nobody here calls it parkway) will open on Monday but the MTO is behind schedule and therefore drivers won't be able to enter onto the Red Hill from Toronto bound traffic, which was the only thing that MTO was responsible for and they couldn’t even do it on schedule, it was only planned out for 50 YEARS jeez. Seems like MTO is always behind. It'll be like that for about a year.

[Steeltown]

Here’s a map! Its back when Hamilton just amalgamated that’s why you see the old logo “The New City of Hamilton”. Plus on this map you can see why it's named Red Hill Valley Parkway, it's built next to the Red Hill Creek.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/Aallen396/redhillmap.jpg

[sonysnob]

I'll try and find a map of the Red Hill Expressway.

The expressway, erm parkway (nobody here calls it parkway) will open on Monday but the MTO is behind schedule and therefore drivers won't be able to enter onto the Red Hill from Toronto bound traffic, which was the only thing that MTO was responsible for and they couldn’t even do it on schedule, it was only planned out for 50 YEARS jeez. Seems like MTO is always behind. It'll be like that for about a year.

are they behind schedule or was that just how the burlington street interchange construction was staged?

[10ROT]

Yes Canada does....just like the rest of the world...and just like the US should!!!!!

The US is gradually moving to Metric. :D

I rarely actually customary that much, only when I have to.

Almost every unit is measured in metric alongside the customary units these days. We do use it more than people think. Hell, if you talk about feet or yards or pounds in the science field, everyone will laugh at you! :lol:

[Steeltown]

MTO is a year behind schedule because they haven't finished the new Burlington Street and Woodward Avenue bridges. They still need to remove the old Burlington Street bridge. At the same time they'll be building a new pedestrian bridge to link the Red Hill trail to the waterfront trail.

Rendering of the bridge
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a382/hammer396/pedbridge.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a382/hammer396/pedbridge2.jpg

[KGB]

The 427 can take on 401 type proportions as well...it's not very long, but it always struck me as feeling as "big" as the 401.



http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/974/toh2003017gh6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2843/toh2003018co9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)



KGB

[TheCat]

^^ Well, you are correct, even though it's not exactly as wide, I think it is the only other 400-series highway with a collector-express system.

[Steeltown]

Red Hill Valley Parkway debuts
November 04, 2007

Thousands of runners marked the official opening of the Red Hill Valley Parkway this weekend.

After the Road to Hope race Saturday morning, about 150 people gathered at the Red Hill Bowl to mark the road’s competition after 50 years of debate.

“There were moments when we wondered if we would ever have this day,” said Chris Murray, who managed the parkway’s construction.

“It’s hard to believe it’s over.”

The controversial four-lane parkway, which cost $225 million to build, will open to vehicle traffic on Nov. 16.

Only three protesters were visible at yesterday’s event, which was well attended by local dignitaries and politicians. Among those in attendance were former mayors Jack MacDonald, Larry Di Ianni and Bob Morrow, local MPPs and MPs, former Lieutenant-Governor Lincoln Alexander, current and former city councillors and dozens of city staff.

The second half of the Road to Hope marathon takes place today.

[noob(but not really)]

Metric system is wack. You talk to me about kilograms and metres, and I will laugh at you!

Here’s a map! Its back when Hamilton just amalgamated that’s why you see the old logo “The New City of Hamilton”. Plus on this map you can see why it's named Red Hill Valley Parkway, it's built next to the Red Hill Creek.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/Aallen396/redhillmap.jpg

Thanks for that map. Honestly, it looks worse than Black Creek Dr. They built it on parkland?

[LordMandeep]

Black Creek Dr.

that is one pointless road...


express route from the 401 to heart of Weston... :lol:

[ChrisZwolle]

Metric system is wack. You talk to me about kilograms and metres, and I will laugh at you!


Not so much.

One kilometer = 1000 meters

One mile = 5,280 feet or 63,360 inches

now what makes sense? :nuts:

[Steeltown]

Thanks for that map. Honestly, it looks worse than Black Creek Dr. They built it on parkland?

Remember this expressway has been planned for nearly 50 years so yea guess it's on parkland as the city allowed no development on the land since the original plan.

The goal of the Red Hill Expressway is to take trucks off local roads, have more industrial parks near Mud St (Glanbrook Industrial Park), redevelop the inner city (Centre Mall redevelopment - retail development mostly), develop a new Red Hill trail, relocating existing landfill sites, to clean up the Harbour from realigning the creek and most importantly to improve the Red Hill Creek, the project is North America’s longest, continuous creek restoration project in an urban setting. A lot of drivers will be taking the Red Hill expressway as a short cut instead of going on the Skyway Bridge towards London/Windsor they can take Red Hill/Linc and on the 403, save time.

The entire cost of the expressway is about half a billion dollars, the most expensive expressway yet. About half of the cost went into improving the environment of the Red Hill Creek Valley.

You can read all about the history, details and environmental improvements made to the Red Hill Valley here:
http://www.hamiltonmarathon.ca/red%20hill%20files/RedHillValleyProject%5B1%5D.pdf

[TheCat]

Not so much.

One kilometer = 1000 meters

One mile = 5,280 feet or 63,360 inches

now what makes sense? :nuts:

Forget it, some people just don't get it, logical arguments don't seem to work :) What I do find strange in his comment, is that according to his profile, he lives in Canada, a country that has been using the metric system for a long time.

[sonysnob]

a new Highway 401 photo:

http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_401_images/401_cl_360_west_lg.jpg

[10ROT]

Holy Shit. This is the interchange with the 400, right...

[Alex Von Königsberg]

Metric system is wack. You talk to me about kilograms and metres, and I will laugh at you!
I feel sorry for you, man. All the exit signs in Canada (at least in BC) tell the distance in metres, so you would have a hard time driving there. Hold on, you are from Canada! :bash:

Also, as far as I have seen, deli products are sold in grammes ($/100g). Do their scales have lbs or oz as well to accommodate your needs? :ohno: :lol:

[TheCat]

I feel sorry for you, man. All the exit signs in Canada (at least in BC) tell the distance in metres, so you would have a hard time driving there. Hold on, you are from Canada! :bash:

Also, as far as I have seen, deli products are sold in grammes ($/100g). Do their scales have lbs or oz as well to accommodate your needs? :ohno: :lol:

Metric is used everywhere in Canada, not just in BC. But in stores fruits and vegetables are still sold primarily in pounds. Most supermarkets post both the price per pound and per kilogram, but the pound is still written in bigger font and is used more. Meat is sold in grams, at least when I buy it. People also still quote their weight and height in pounds and feet/inches, although for me it is easier and more natural to use kilograms and centimetres, because I was not born in Canada and am more comfortable with metric. But Canadians born here seem to still be more accustomed to the Imperial system in everyday life.

Official documentation, however, uses the metric system. For example, on my driver's license, my height is written in centimetres.

[noob(but not really)]

that is one pointless road...


express route from the 401 to heart of Weston... :lol:

LOL! In its current state, it is 100% pointless. It was supposed to connect to the Gardiner. We are stuck with it now, so we might as well extend it.



Remember this expressway has been planned for nearly 50 years so yea guess it's on parkland as the city allowed no development on the land since the original plan.

The goal of the Red Hill Expressway is to take trucks off local roads, have more industrial parks near Mud St (Glanbrook Industrial Park), redevelop the inner city (Centre Mall redevelopment - retail development mostly), develop a new Red Hill trail, relocating existing landfill sites, to clean up the Harbour from realigning the creek and most importantly to improve the Red Hill Creek, the project is North America’s longest, continuous creek restoration project in an urban setting. A lot of drivers will be taking the Red Hill expressway as a short cut instead of going on the Skyway Bridge towards London/Windsor they can take Red Hill/Linc and on the 403, save time.

The entire cost of the expressway is about half a billion dollars, the most expensive expressway yet. About half of the cost went into improving the environment of the Red Hill Creek Valley.

You can read all about the history, details and environmental improvements made to the Red Hill Valley here:
http://www.hamiltonmarathon.ca/red%20hill%20files/RedHillValleyProject%5B1%5D.pdf

That was a good PDF. Although, they could've just done the creek restoration on its own, assuming they planned the expwy network better back in the day. :|



Not so much.

One kilometer = 1000 meters

One mile = 5,280 feet or 63,360 inches

now what makes sense? :nuts:

Forget it, some people just don't get it, logical arguments don't seem to work :) What I do find strange in his comment, is that according to his profile, he lives in Canada, a country that has been using the metric system for a long time.

I feel sorry for you, man. All the exit signs in Canada (at least in BC) tell the distance in metres, so you would have a hard time driving there. Hold on, you are from Canada! :bash:

Also, as far as I have seen, deli products are sold in grammes ($/100g). Do their scales have lbs or oz as well to accommodate your needs? :ohno: :lol:

I actually use both systems, and so do most Canadians. For example, why use miles when you have kilometres? It also wouldn't make much sense to use yards when you have metres. However, when you need to use a smaller unit, you wouldn't use decimetres :nuts: you'd use feet. This is the key area that the metric system is totally flawed in. And it is no wonder that feet and inches are used on floorplans in Canada. No way I'm using metres when the room is 10' x 10'. 3.3 or whatever it is just doesn't sound right.

Also, professional sports leagues in North America use the imperial system.



People also still quote their weight and height in pounds and feet/inches, although for me it is easier and more natural to use kilograms and centimetres, because I was not born in Canada and am more comfortable with metric. But Canadians born here seem to still be more accustomed to the Imperial system in everyday life.

I can't imagine using the metric system for my weight/height. That's just too weird.

[sonysnob]

Holy Shit. This is the interchange with the 400, right...

Thats right.

The current form of the 400/401 interchange was completed in 1965-66. While this interchange may not be as impressive as some of Toronto's newer offerings, for its day it was really something.

[Alex Von Königsberg]

However, when you need to use a smaller unit, you wouldn't use decimetres :nuts: you'd use feet. This is the key area that the metric system is totally flawed in. And it is no wonder that feet and inches are used on floorplans in Canada. No way I'm using metres when the room is 10' x 10'. 3.3 or whatever it is just doesn't sound right.
Doesn't sound right to you. For those poor bastards who only know "flawed" metric system 3.30m sounds ok :)

You know, the argument that the Imperial system feels more 'human' is not uncommon in this kind of discussions. I can say that metric system is not less human than the Imperial one - not if you learn it since your early childhood. I can perfectly feel 10cm, 20cm, and so on. I can show you 30cm pretty accurately, but I don't feel a foot. Neither do I feel inches, ounces and gallons.

What they did in Canada was smart: since people were used to quarts and gallons, they just replaced them with 1 litre and 4 litres respectively, because even the most hardcore Imperial fans will not notice a significant difference.

[noob(but not really)]

Stop trying to force it on me. I really couldn't care less how you "feel" measurements, I am not "feeling" the metric system. I was "taught" the system from elementary school, I just can't use it for everything - the majority of Canadians are like that, but you wouldn't understand because you're from Europe.

[rick1016]

I bet he tries to force it on Americans everyday!! :lol::lol:

EDIT: The Metric system does make a lot more sense, but I still use feet and inches and pounds for my body measurements.

[go_leafs_go02]

same.

I have no clue how many kg i weigh, or how many metres I am in height.

Still I'm hoping for conversion to metric by the Americans, it'll make things so much easier for everyone in the end.

[noob(but not really)]

I would hate to see it go though. This sort of change would take several generations, and it wouldn't be easy to get everyone on board.

Canada is essentially a mix of America and Europe. We are bilingual, there's no reason we can't have two systems(we kinda do already).

[Steeltown]

Here's a video link of the Red Hill Creek Expressway ceremony.

http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/video2/redhillopening.html

[Grey Towers]

Measurements in Canada are a crazy mishmash, but comfortable for those of us who have grown up with them. Officially, we use kilometres for travelling distances and speeds, litres for liquids, and feet, inches, and pounds (but grams, not ounces) for measurements such as body weight and height. I have never heard a criminal suspect described as about 175 centimetres and 80 kilograms.

[Alex Von Königsberg]

So, if someone who has no idea about the old Imperial system moves to Canada, will this person be able to live comfortably using only metric system? When I visited British Canada recently, the only old units I noticed were pounds for fruits and vegetables and only in some small shops.

[KGB]

So, if someone who has no idea about the old Imperial system moves to Canada, will this person be able to live comfortably using only metric system?


Absolutely. The metric system is pretty well entrenched enough that a metric-only person would not have much trouble. "officially" that is...in terms of personal "social" contact, it would depend on who you were talking to.

The funny thing with measurements, is that at some point, it is very difficult (or impossible) to "see" things any different than what your mind has accustomed itself to at some point in your life.

We tried going "cold turkey" metric, but I guess there are enough "old timers" still pure imperial that it kind of had a bit of a back-lash in certain things, so we kind of relapsed into imperial and metric for certain things.

I guess we will just have to wait a while longer for the ole timers to die off. he he





KGB

[Daguy]

^^

I agree. The only that a person coming here needs to know is how to give his or her weight in pounds. Almost nobody weighs themselves in kgs here.

It's nothing personal to Americans but we need to go with the times. There are only 3 countries left in the world who havn't convereted to the metric, and at a minimum people should know how to convert between the two.

[noob(but not really)]

I guess we will just have to wait a while longer for the ole timers to die off. he he

I wont go that easily ;)

[go_leafs_go02]

the only way Canadians will go fully metric in their thinking is if our neighbours go metric (being Americans)

They influence us, and many industries still use imperial, particularly architectural. I take CAD courses at a Canadian college and EVERYTHING we do is in architectural. Haven't touched metric.

I wish imperial would disappear, but it's not going anywhere.

[noob(but not really)]

^^That's actually why I don't like metric. And it's scary that we'll be using it one day for that.

[Alex Von Königsberg]

It's interesting what units the physical properties of different construction materials (concrete, bricks, etc.) are measured in?

Noob, are using Celsius or Fahrenheit in your daily life?

[ADCS]

It's interesting what units the physical properties of different construction materials (concrete, bricks, etc.) are measured in?

Noob, are using Celsius or Fahrenheit in your daily life?

You know, I've finally