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hkskyline

February 24th, 2005, 02:12 AM

Photos removed from server. See my website for collection :

http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto.htm

elliot

February 24th, 2005, 02:39 PM

Gorgeous.

lcohen999

February 25th, 2005, 03:56 AM

I think dusk is when this airport looks its best.

BlackFlag

February 25th, 2005, 04:05 AM

Thanks for the update on Pearson!

mvern2

April 11th, 2005, 06:54 AM

The New Terminal One @ Pearson is soo beautiful.....amoung all the controversy behind it, TO needed a new terminal...one that would scrap the aging old terminal one and terminal 2...

they made it look good..thats for sure!

Confused Philosopher

April 12th, 2005, 01:49 AM

nice pics, hksyline.

The terminal itself is a bit bland... but it's light years better than the one they had before.

yyzer

January 10th, 2006, 03:20 AM

To make way for the new Pier F 'Hammerhead', demolition of a portion of Terminal 2 has just been completed...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/yyzer/Jan072006101.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/yyzer/Jan072006102.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/yyzer/Jan072006103.jpg

The northern face of Pier F is extensively finished, they are now installing the jetbridges and light fixtures - due to be operational in early 2007...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/yyzer/Jan072006104.jpg

Travis007

January 10th, 2006, 03:30 AM

Thanks for the update.

Good news that Terminal 2 is being demolished. I've always found it to be boring and depressing looking. I can't wait to see the Hammerhead completed.

rise_against

January 10th, 2006, 06:34 AM

YAY i was looking forward to this day.

Taller, Better

January 10th, 2006, 06:37 AM

^Me too! I hope it blowed up reel good.
I used to call it Terminal Illness.

snoopy

January 11th, 2006, 01:28 AM

omg! good good good... stupid terminal 2 i hated it for all my national flights... its a bunker. i'm really glad its gone now.

Bertez

January 11th, 2006, 03:32 AM

Incredible.....though I just wish they put in glass jetways instead of the 'covered' ones.....also, I can't wait to see pics of the hammerhead:D:D

Skybean

January 12th, 2006, 02:21 AM

Great shot of Mississauga :yes:

Bertez

January 14th, 2006, 12:52 AM

^^That's true:D

Pozerifik

May 26th, 2006, 12:22 AM

Here's some pics from May 2....much of the work on pier F is now on the inside....

north side of the pier is pretty much done...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/yyzer/MAY023.jpg

on the south side, work continues...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/yyzer/MAY024.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/yyzer/MAY025.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/yyzer/MAY026.jpg

after the pier opens in early 2007, the rest of old Terminal 2 will be demolished...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/yyzer/MAY021.jpg[/

ScrapeTheSky

May 26th, 2006, 04:47 AM

Awesome pics. Can't wait for Terminal 2 to be gone. Then we'll have Terminal 1 and Terminal 3. That'll be weird!

zerokarma

May 26th, 2006, 04:07 PM

Nice pictures and good updated!

I still have yet to visit the new Terminal 1, all my flights seem to take off from Terminal 3 so I never get the chance.

ONEILLT

May 26th, 2006, 05:50 PM

that's because your flying with that 'other' airline.

Taller, Better

May 26th, 2006, 08:36 PM

[QUOTE=ScrapeTheSky]Awesome pics. Can't wait for Terminal 2 to be gone.QUOTE]

Yes, will be nice to see the end of the "Terminal Sickness". :)

p5archit

May 26th, 2006, 10:07 PM

...I just wish they put in glass jetways instead of the 'covered' ones.....

I completely agree- All of things should have been done differently on this terminal.

Not to rain on anyone's parade here, but I find this airport dull..but this is, IMO a North American thing- (see Detroits new McNamara Terminal)- many new airports seem to have the same dull grey exteriors with dull white interiors- there is little colour and little imagination- especially in comparison to what is happening elsewhere in the world with regards to airport development: Madrid Barajas, Beijing, or Singepore..

Maybe its me, but I think we missed the opportunity to do something more unique and interesting, instead we ended up with a terminal that could be placed anywhere in NA...don' get me wrong, i think this is an improvement and its spacious and has some nice parts to it, but on the whole i think its a shame we let such a large project turn out so dull.

p5

ScrapeTheSky

May 27th, 2006, 02:43 AM

Maybe it has something to do with the climate, i.e. snow and ice. I'd rather have something sturdy and reliable than something pretty that'll be falling apart after a couple winters.

urban 2.0

May 27th, 2006, 08:25 AM

p5archit

May 28th, 2006, 01:54 AM

You are bang on about Schiphol- this is one of my favorite airports, from almost all aspects- they have incorporated art, colour, great design/architecture and its full of areas to view the airports workings.

I will have to continue this later..my computer battery is about to die........ahhh.....

p5

bizorky

May 28th, 2006, 08:24 PM

In terms of new construction, what comes after the demise of Terminal Two?

canuckbanana

June 19th, 2006, 01:53 AM

According to the GTAA website, the terminal 3 expansion opened today. You can view the press release here (http://www.gtaa.com/Index.aspx?Sid=Node12&Tpl=6&PRESSID=735) . I was just wondering if anyone has more info about this project. I heard it was going on but didn't realize it was even close to completion. Is there an A380 compatible gate at T3? Also, where exactly is the extension in relation to the rest of the terminal?

Bertez

June 19th, 2006, 01:59 AM

^^Its just an increase in check-in and arrival area...like the "tube" section was extended, making it closer (not that much) to T1

canuckbanana

June 19th, 2006, 08:00 PM

^^ Thanks Bertez. Kind of disappointing. I thought they were adding new gates (and consequentially, capacity).

Bertez

June 19th, 2006, 08:11 PM

^^ Thanks Bertez. Kind of disappointing. I thought they were adding new gates (and consequentially, capacity).

Well....they have already added more gates....that was part of an earlier expansion, I think 03 or 04

orangeman

June 19th, 2006, 08:41 PM

The T3 extension is to the south (T1) side of Terminal 3

Toronto06

June 20th, 2006, 07:55 AM

havent been to pearson in a looooooooooooooooooong time
one downfall of going to university

zerokarma

June 20th, 2006, 05:04 PM

nitzomoe

June 20th, 2006, 05:16 PM

To put it into perspective this is the new addition:
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8591/08962156nb.jpg

photo credits are on the picture.

Toronto06

June 21st, 2006, 03:06 AM

To put it into perspective this is the new addition:
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8591/08962156nb.jpg

photo credits are on the picture.

nice.....*looks at the Sheraton hotel*

hey! thats where i always park! on the roof in front of the hotel! :)

hkskyline

June 22nd, 2006, 02:30 AM

http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto/20060613/IMG_0541.jpg

Brett

June 22nd, 2006, 07:36 AM

Ill be in Pearson early tuesday morning, I love the size of the new terminal!

p5archit

June 29th, 2006, 10:46 PM

Does anyone have a picture from above the expanded Terminal 3? From the images posted i don't really get how it has been expanded?

-has the main hall also been extended and the section behind it as well?

Also, when is the hammerhead supposed to open up?

p5

Skybean

June 30th, 2006, 07:32 AM

http://gtaa.com/Images/Travellers/WiFiT1.jpg

Wi-Fi service now available in Terminal 1
Date of Release: May 30, 2006
Passengers can now wirelessly link to the Internet, send e-mails and access their corporate network throughout Terminal 1.

Concourse Communications Group has installed Wi-Fi networks at Terminal 1, which will provide users with wireless Internet access regardless of the Internet Service Provider they use.

The GTAA has recently completed Wi-Fi negotiations for Terminal 3 and looks forward to announcing the introduction of this service in the near future.

For additional information and technical support call toll-free 1-800-550-5030.

Filip

July 3rd, 2006, 07:27 AM

The new addition is BEAUTIFUL.. Basically it continues like the original "tube" then at the end it turns into this vast wavy-roofed galleria. Check in desks on both sides and a great panoramic view of the tarmac. It's great!

Skybean

July 9th, 2006, 10:55 PM

I'll tell you what I think. I think that the T1 + T3 expansion looks frigging gorgeous.

People Mover T3 to T1

http://static.flickr.com/75/185722419_aa31f56aae_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/57/185722545_cfcde704c3_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/45/185750487_48c2406d29_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/53/185724006_60af88fb84_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/51/185723845_dc0fa614fc_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/78/185722922_70e1b5f893_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/47/185723405_d9e0bc7f2c_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/71/185724146_d62ba68197_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/49/185722042_0a4a739973_b.jpg

Bertez

July 9th, 2006, 11:00 PM

Amazing...simply amazing:D:D

rise_against

July 10th, 2006, 12:10 AM

Wow that looks super cool...and should for the price :D

metroboi_nay

July 10th, 2006, 12:14 AM

gr8 pix skybean, thx :)

Taller, Better

July 10th, 2006, 02:48 AM

Skybean, what would we do without you? Again you have snagged some great pix!!

zerokarma

July 10th, 2006, 09:16 PM

Nice pictures, the train looks pretty cool.

friendlyneighboor

July 11th, 2006, 06:10 AM

BUILD THE DAMN LINK TO DOWNTOWN.

TObermuda37

July 11th, 2006, 03:22 PM

Looking forward to seeing Pearson on July 21 and July 24. Will be in Terminal 3 arriving on Delta. Finally I get to check out the changes that have taken place there. Been flying out of Terminal 1 on AC all the time. Thanks for the pics. Cannot wait to see all the changes.

ratoronto

July 11th, 2006, 04:28 PM

Wow Pearson looks fantastic! Can't wait till Term. 2 is gone and the entire airport looks like this. Nice Pics!

orangeman

July 11th, 2006, 08:03 PM

When they finally demolish T2, will the other 2 terminals retain their numbers?

ScrapeTheSky

July 11th, 2006, 09:46 PM

When they finally demolish T2, will the other 2 terminals retain their numbers?

It's a valid question, and one I've pondered myself.

having only a Terminal 1 and Terminal 3 will make people wonder where Terminal 2 is. But renaming Terminal 3 to Terminal 2 would have its own problems. "Welcome to the Terminal formerly known as Terminal 3: Terminal 2".

Martinsizon

July 19th, 2006, 05:16 AM

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1643/tnewmediumce3.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5313/aerialru0.jpg

How wil they connect terminal 1 and 3

Bertez

July 19th, 2006, 05:48 AM

^^Well...if you mean physicall connect (as in the same building), there are plans (in the distant future) to extend T1 so that it encompases T3 as well. Btw, I heard that the People Mover is a very "violent" trip.....anyone have any comments on this??

Jaye101

August 16th, 2006, 11:24 PM

The moderators of the Toronto forum are Jaye101, CrazyCanuck, Lucky24, and Ashok. If your experiencing any abuse from other forum members in this section you can send us a personal message detailing the event that has taken place.

These things will not be tolerated in the Toronto forum:

-Offending opinions. (homophobia, racism, agism, sexism...)

-Namecalling

If you are posting an article for forum members to discuss, please make sure the name of the thread and the title of the article are the same. The moderators are not here to censor your evey word to make it sound like cherries and roses, the Toronto forum has always had a feeling of community, and it will remain that way. Do not make pointless threads (Pointless Threads: Threads that only benefit the thread maker.) Sometimes lines are blurred in what exactly should be posted in the Toronto section. If it has nothing to do with Toronto, it shouldn't be in the Toronto forum. We do not have a Skybar, however we have Toronto Forum Off-Beat Thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=329788) for discussion that doesn't really relate to any urban issues or events in Toronto. Developments should go into the Toronto Development News (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=511) section.

Welcome to the Toronto section of Skyscraper City!

-Jaye

The 'Sauga

November 12th, 2006, 10:43 PM

Source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/neuroticjose

Tier 1 Pier F "Hammerhead"

http://static.flickr.com/115/283037916_77d9e59e74_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/115/283031297_5b978596c7_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/108/295511396_d03b5ed15c_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/91/282764632_510842ce3d_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/84/283030238_8c9768ef91_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/116/282764103_122ced5d70_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/101/283037412_1f9c458634_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/94/282070703_07b8e3916b_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/111/283036840_acb21afcc9_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/107/283036362_83474f9490_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/120/283035245_140316ce7f_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/107/283034653_7a806bd01d_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/114/283033153_2316cf7899_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/86/283032247_eac3a0f92a_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/101/283826693_31a11d5e5c_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/113/283930625_60097e5d4b_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/120/294962292_0baa73ae50_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/120/286620736_4efd8b9bac_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/99/294962714_d27dec6de6_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/107/294963142_ee4d11ca84_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/115/294963655_efb71f9218_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/121/294963969_158a1f404f_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/119/286613961_946dcf5c1e_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/112/294965140_5fd593be5e_b.jpg

ggaleazz

November 13th, 2006, 12:01 AM

beautiful. Just beautiful. Were you part of the volunteer 'dry run'?

elliot

November 13th, 2006, 12:44 AM

That so called "pier" is probably bigger than almost every (entire) "airport" in the country and 90% of them in the U.S.

When is a Pier big enough to be more than a borough, a suburb..?

Martinsizon

November 13th, 2006, 01:08 AM

wow looks good

Martinsizon

November 13th, 2006, 01:27 AM

Aerial View:
overview of the airport courtesy of GTAA publications

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/7370/pearsonpg8.jpg

urban 2.0

November 13th, 2006, 07:42 AM

ScrapeTheSky

November 13th, 2006, 09:56 AM

I think it looks modern, which I love.

phunky

November 13th, 2006, 12:54 PM

Now if only they would tear down Terminal 3!

The interior looks as friendly as a hospital.

What's with Pearson's obsession with making everything look as cold and impersonel as humanly possible?

It gets back to my old argument that Canadian's are AFRAID of Colour. We're so scared to use it. If it ain't white it ain't right. (use concrete gray when talking about the exterior of a building).

Such a let down.

wha?

http://static.flickr.com/112/294965140_5fd593be5e_b.jpg

i think they used colour as an accent rather than a main feature and i'm glad they did or it might look outdated in 10 years, whereas this will stay simple and they can just change colour accents based on what is considered modern in the future.

ONEILLT

November 13th, 2006, 03:46 PM

Thanks for all the pictures they are all great. I was there for the 'dry run', what a diffence from Terminal 2, can't wait to see that sucker go.

Curious as to when they are going to start the the third pod. I can't remember if they do it immediatly or is there a 'hold'.

Certainly we're (yes we're) going to be paying for this for years. Milton pleaded with the planners to keep it simple and I believe he was pushing for additional terminals.

The halls are wide and long, it will take years to see them filled but even though we have a 'monstrocity' I'm proud that the Airport authority had the vision of redesigning Pearson and not building another Meribel.

Our only problem is that we continue to allow expansion around the airport. The 'voices' will become louder for noise restrictions and eventually we'll need 24 hour service to keep up with the demand for the airport in the future.

Taller, Better

November 13th, 2006, 06:38 PM

Now if only they would tear down Terminal 3!

The interior looks as friendly as a hospital.

What's with Pearson's obsession with making everything look as cold and impersonel as humanly possible?

It gets back to my old argument that Canadian's are AFRAID of Colour. We're so scared to use it. If it ain't white it ain't right. (use concrete gray when talking about the exterior of a building).

Such a let down.

You are let down? No surprise there, Urban.

I think those pix were amazing, quite frankly, and they have gone a long way to change my initial feelings about the first phase that was opened.

p5archit

November 13th, 2006, 07:08 PM

The interior looks as friendly as a hospital.

What's with Pearson's obsession with making everything look as cold and impersonel as humanly possible?

It gets back to my old argument that Canadian's are AFRAID of Colour. We're so scared to use it. If it ain't white it ain't right. (use concrete gray when talking about the exterior of a building).

I kind of have to agree here...Where as I am not completely compelled to go so far as say let-down, I am the same opinion in regards to the lack of colour and well, ultimately vegetation. I know a lot of you feel differently about this, not to mention that there are art pieces ete., which provide a certain amount of colour, but the overall feeling one gets is quite sterile. I have used Pearson many times, and its the one thing that generally sticks in my mind especially when returning from Europe.

That is not to say that airports here in Europe do not have other problems- faulty infrastructure etc., but they have a lot of more in the way of vibrancy and life inside the airport. The "sterile style" is just another from of Canadian Conservatism, which in this case ultimately manifests itself, not in the architecture, but in the spaces provided by the architecture.

I think vegetation, whether trees, bamboo, or tall creeping plants would go a long way to remove the "hospital" feeling in the airport. That said, everyone here is entitled to his/her opinions and should not be persecuted for disagreeing with the status-quo-(not necessarily speaking about myself, but previous posts)!!

Thanks for the pics-!

p5

zerokarma

November 13th, 2006, 07:25 PM

The new terminal one is looking amazing, too bad all my flights seem to end up being out of terminal 3.

Urban Idiot

November 13th, 2006, 07:37 PM

Source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/neuroticjose

Tier 1 Pier F "Hammerhead"

http://static.flickr.com/115/283031297_5b978596c7_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/108/295511396_d03b5ed15c_b.jpg

OH MY!
JEEZ LOUISE!!!
More geeks than in a computer science department!

Taller, Better

November 14th, 2006, 01:12 AM

Fear of Colour:

http://static.flickr.com/112/294965140_5fd593be5e_b.jpg

I'm not sure how I feel about potted plants in a building. At first I loved the bamboo
forest in the new U of T building, but they look sickly and unhealthy now. I'm never
100% comfortable with plant pots shoved into a clean, modern space and am never
really sure how necessary they are.

urban 2.0

November 14th, 2006, 02:35 AM

http://static.flickr.com/75/185722419_aa31f56aae_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/94/282070703_07b8e3916b_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/86/283032247_eac3a0f92a_b.jpg

Why not bright red, yellow, green walls? something.

I'm actually a bigger fan of Terminal One then Terminal 3 - anyone ever catching a flight or returning from 3 will know just how drab of a building it is.
Not a very friendly welcome back to Canada.

I'm also not a big fan of random public art (read: abstract, meaningless, pc, junk) that's just placed around to create 'atmosphere' in a building devoid of it.

I don't have an easy answer, but there should be a lot more visually stimulating things inside the airport. ie Aircraft hanging from the ceiling, video displays showing live landings, etc.

InTheBeach

November 14th, 2006, 05:14 AM

Why not bright red, yellow, green walls? something.

I'm actually a bigger fan of Terminal One then Terminal 3 - anyone ever catching a flight or returning from 3 will know just how drab of a building it is.
Not a very friendly welcome back to Canada.

I'm also not a big fan of random public art (read: abstract, meaningless, pc, junk) that's just placed around to create 'atmosphere' in a building devoid of it.

I don't have an easy answer, but there should be a lot more visually stimulating things inside the airport. ie Aircraft hanging from the ceiling, video displays showing live landings, etc.

I think you need to sit down and sort out your thoughts.

In this case, you don't like the airport because it is sterile. Yet you don't like random public art.

In the past, you called the St. Lawrence neighbourhood lifeless.

You want an area of downtown to be left to grow wild, but it needs to have a fence around it so that people won't let their dogs crap in it.

You need to find a cause.

Taller, Better

November 14th, 2006, 08:21 AM

Oh he has a Cause.

p5archit

November 14th, 2006, 01:29 PM

Taller, Better

November 14th, 2006, 06:29 PM

TB- I can see where you are coming from with regards to potted plants, but i am not referring to potted plants just being stuck here and or there. You have to tend to the plants, just because you plant them doesn't mean they will survive. The problem with UofT is unknown to me, but from the looks of things, Terminal 1 with its natural light filled spaces, would be perfect for such plants. Besides, i see sections in the floor being removed and replaced with water, rocks and bamboo or such vegetation- not planters..although, if well thought out and well designed, they can function as both bench and planter together..

p5

That could be cool if it were done right. Usually plants, pools and fountains look a bit "shopping mall" though, and I think I would be fine without them. I would rather have an airport with clean lines than loads of chochkas that give it an Eaton Centre appearance. I must admit I am a bit blown away by these latest pix, though... seems a vast improvement on the first section of the terminal. Will be very exciting to see the terminal in its entirety.
I've been in a lot of airports in my day, and they are not all as glamourous as some people may remember them from holiday jaunts. There is always a lot of concrete coloured concrete. That is part of airport design.

urban 2.0

November 15th, 2006, 05:04 AM

I think you need to sit down and sort out your thoughts.

In this case, you don't like the airport because it is sterile. Yet you don't like random public art.

In the past, you called the St. Lawrence neighbourhood lifeless.

You want an area of downtown to be left to grow wild, but it needs to have a fence around it so that people won't let their dogs crap in it.

You need to find a cause.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Unknown_Student_sculpture.JPG

.... this is the meaningless public art that I speak of - blobs of random crap, that lack contextural meaning or significance.

Often this art is created by people that don't even live in the city where it's put up in. Just ploping shit art sculptures into a building doesn't give it it culture and make it nicer.

Do the 2 chunks of steel in front of the Metro Convention Centre have anything to do with anything. Do they make the building nicer?

It's no different then opening an opera hall in a hick town give that town culture?

Clearly you've never flown into Terminal 3 and did the 4 hour walk to customs.

InTheBeach

November 15th, 2006, 07:04 AM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/HenryMooreTorontoCH1.jpg/800px-HenryMooreTorontoCH1.jpg

.... this is the meaningless public art that I speak of - blobs of random crap, that lack contextural meaning or significance.

Often this art is created by people that don't even live in the city where it's put up in. Just ploping shit art sculptures into a building doesn't give it it culture and make it nicer.

Do the 2 chunks of steel in front of the Metro Convention Centre have anything to do with anything. Do they make the building nicer?

It's no different then opening an opera hall in a hick town give that town culture?

Clearly you've never flown into Terminal 3 and did the 4 hour walk to customs.

How about that for meaningless art?

Who has their head in the sand? Not all of the public art is great, but it doesn't need to be. There is nothing wrong with the sculpture in your original post. Is it great? No, but it is legitimate art. Better than you can do, I am sure.

The world isn't perfect, so Toronto doesn't have to be perfect either.

Taller, Better

November 15th, 2006, 07:29 AM

It's no different then opening an opera hall in a hick town give that town culture? .

Ah yes... we keep forgetting YOU'VE been to Europe. We are blessed to have you come back to
our humble hick town.

p5archit

November 15th, 2006, 12:48 PM

For greening of the terminal building, please check out this project

Photosynthesis-Devonian Gardens

Janet Rosenberg Landscape Architects http://www.jrala.ca/

I think it shows that interior planting doesn't have to take the shape of Mall rivers and potted plants...Not to mention that there has been a lot of progress when it comes to interior landscaping, so why you automatically think of the Eaton Centre is kind of confusing...?

pfive

urban 2.0

November 15th, 2006, 03:51 PM

Ah yes... we keep forgetting YOU'VE been to Europe. We are blessed to have you come back to
our humble hick town.

Well yes I have traveled a lot, and further afield then just Europe.

Sorry if I have high standards for this city. It's developed cause the people running the show seem to do such a poor job in their role.

Blandness occurs when the people let it happen. Pearson is a bland airport, because they don't have any group fighting for higher standards. Most of the crap built in Toronto wouldn't be allowed elsewhere, because they actually have standards. Toronto acts like the poor guy who's happy to have any handout (read public art) then nothing at all.

But I will give you one thing, our art mirrors our architecture. Grade school amateur.

Taller, Better

November 15th, 2006, 05:28 PM

[QUOTE=urban 2.0;10484681] It's part of my duty as a SSC member to critique any development in Toronto. QUOTE]

Of course it is. We all want higher standards for Toronto, and we have all travelled. Our travelling sometimes gives us ideas of things that might work here. Higher standards involve and require critiquing what is happening in our city. I respect those who "critique" with an open mind, and have some basic knowledge of urban planning and design. True "critiquing", or "criticism" involves both negative and positive "criticism" based on that knowledge of planning and design. When it becomes a constant a series of automatic negative "criticizing", it devolves into the category of "complaining". We all of us have our own reasons for being on this board, and your portrayal of Toronto as a "hicktown" reveals your purpose here.

tkip

November 15th, 2006, 07:04 PM

You can always move somewhere else if this city disappoints so much. Honestly, we have to stop comparing our city to every other city on the planet.

No wonder we're led to to believe that we live in a sub-par dump, with nothing going for it and that we should all be depressed by this.

:bash:

What about liveability? Toronto was never a beautiful city and it will never will be. Stop obsessing over astectics.....

And I personally know more than a few people who've moved here and have travelled abroad and they tend to think that Toronto holds up pretty well against the rest.

KGB

November 15th, 2006, 07:51 PM

Sorry if I have high standards for this city. Most of the crap built in Toronto wouldn't be allowed elsewhere

Man, this guy has one of the most myopic, distorted, chronically malcontented attitudes I've encountered in this forum (except for that arebe idiot). He's like Hume on steroids.

Truth is, Toronto, while as easy to criticise as ANY place else, can also outdo most other places in just about any catagory as well. You will never see this if you are determined to ignore anything good about Toronto, while ignoring anything bad about any place else. This is a terribly unhealthy and unbalanced way to look at it, and I don't see how this fits your so-called high standars you seem to have for Toronto. You are like the parent that beats your child because you "care" about them.

And please don't make it worse by pretending to know anything about art.

KGB

Taller, Better

November 15th, 2006, 08:10 PM

Toronto is a city that has undergone an inordinate amount of often vicious negative criticism from our fellow Canadians in other parts of this country. A steady diet of this negative criticism has caused a surprising number of people here to have low self-esteem about the city they have chosen to live in. They tend to automatically assume that if something is in Toronto, then it is done poorly, or inferior to other places (usually in World Class Europe). Sometimes they become like poor Pavlov's dog, and feel they must always react negatively to what is happening to Toronto, and what has moulded this city. They see no beauty, and feel nothing but pessimism and contempt for its future. I do feel a bit sorry for these people and frankly am perplexed why they, as world travellers, bother to live here amid this sea of mediocrity. There is such a big world out there that it seems inexplicable to choose to live in a city that a person has no respect for. I don't think there is another city in Canada that is working so hard to improve itself, but for the truly insecure, Toronto will never be "World Class" enough.

InTheBeach

November 15th, 2006, 08:12 PM

It is easy to filter out the bad stuff when you are travelling.

I know I do, and I am still relieved when I get home.

You have to walk a mile in a man's shoes...

Taller, Better

November 15th, 2006, 08:25 PM

It is easy to filter out the bad stuff when you are travelling.

I know I do, and I am still relieved when I get home.

You have to walk a mile in a man's shoes...

Truer words were never spoken, Beach. When we go away on holidays, we
are in "vacation" mode. We party. We spend our $$. We don't have to set the alarm clock to go to work in the morning. We don't have to cook or wash dishes. We look the other way when we see "icky" stuff. We blur out ugliness and only see the beautiful. We see what we are intended to see as a tourist, of any given city. Things always seem better to me when I am on holiday! :banana: However, most intelligent people can separate these things in their mind when they get home, and not just refuse to go to any local museums or art performances , or admire any local architectural projects simply because they visited Paris, or Albania. Most intelligent people actually live in the here and now.

TObermuda37

November 16th, 2006, 02:06 PM

I must chime in on this. Just a few words (actually more).

We should stop comparing Toronto to other cities. One, because it is NOT other cities. Think of the surroundings. It is not Vancouver because Vancouver has the mountains and the ocean. It is NOT Paris which has the history and joie de vivre.

What it is, is Toronto and for that it is a beautiful place. I have lived in Germany, across Canada and now in Bermuda. Soon it will be London, UK. Each city has it own beauty and characteristics. Toronto is Toronto and that is what makes it so beautiful to me (the people, the neighbourhoods, etc.).

The airport is a work in progress. Should they have slapped in all the plants and art immediately? Who knows, but before we complain, let them finish the job. When all is said and done, then make the judgements. Remember that they are also trying to get a building done so that people are able to get on their plane to a final destination in some sort of comfort. Functionality is the priority. Compared to the old Terminal 1 and Terminal 2, this is a VAST improvement.

p5archit

November 16th, 2006, 11:23 PM

TObermuda37-

With regards to your comment about Toronto- I agree with you. I have also lived in other countries and presently live in Vienna, and there are always other places which will have other more beautiful things, but Toronto has many positive aspects that other cities can only dream of.

I do, however feel that if vegetation/plants were going to be part of the overall plan, then they would already be in the present building, which is already complete. I do hope, that this will still happen, but that doesn't mean that i am proposing the willy-nilly placement of planters. The integration of plants into the building will have to be well planned and well thought out.

p5

rbt

November 17th, 2006, 04:31 AM

The integration of plants into the building will have to be well planned and well thought out.

Not knowing the process, I would guess that physical security took a priority in T1 over pretty much everything else. Seems to have been built very specifically to make it difficult to hide things.

Even the art which is mis-shapen (not square corners and flat surfaces) tends to be overhead well out of reach.

urban 2.0

November 17th, 2006, 05:50 AM

Not knowing the process, I would guess that physical security took a priority in T1 over pretty much everything else. Seems to have been built very specifically to make it difficult to hide things.

Even the art which is mis-shapen (not square corners and flat surfaces) tends to be overhead well out of reach.

... I agree.

I'm not anti-art. I just wish we could see that we could build interior spaces that are more engaging, more stimulating. Simply hanging some art doesn't achieve that.

I took a flight out of terminal 3 and I couldn't get over how dull and drab the building was. Blue and gray carpet and walls. Small dining areas, that couldn't hold many people. It felt like a mall that was going out of business with a handful of shops still open. And it was NOISY. Never ending - LOUD P.A. announcements, which caused everyone to talk louder, creating needless noise that further made the building feel uncomfortable.

Terminal 3 is nicer, it has less of a hospital waiting room feel. But they could do better with making it feel more welcoming and hospitable.

KGB

November 17th, 2006, 07:44 AM

The airport is a work in progress. Should they have slapped in all the plants and art immediately? Who knows, but before we complain, let them finish the job. When all is said and done, then make the judgements.

That's all very nice and common sense.....but saying it to the misanthropic types is just a waste of time. They could have done all the stuff he says...the plants, the colourful walls...the "better art" ( ah ha ha)...he would be saying EXCACTLY the same thing....cause that's what misanthropic people do.

Don't let them suck you in....they are miserable, and are determined to make sure we are all miserable with them....that is the goal...it certainly isn't because they just want a better check-in counter or whatever when catching a plane.

KGB

yyzer

January 27th, 2007, 05:27 PM

Tuesday's the big day!...several articles in the Star today....

Pier F is pointing straight to the future
TheStar.com - News - Pier F is pointing straight to the future
Not just another $800 million pretty place. They're banking on it to really put Pearson on the map

January 27, 2007
Bill Taylor
Feature writer

This is one secret you can tell in Pier F ...

The new finger outstretched from Terminal 1 at Pearson International Airport isn't just a much-needed extension. It points to the future – a symbol of Toronto's reaching for a bigger share of the aviation market.

With room to build three more piers, that finger could eventually grow into a hand.

The Greater Toronto Airports Authority wants Pearson to be a major North American hub, taking on New York and Chicago and offering passengers transferring between international flights a way to avoid the United States and its increasingly draconian security regulations.

American paranoia could become a selling point for Pearson as a relatively painless way-station for globetrotters, especially those travelling between South America and Europe and Asia.

That's an open secret.

Anything else – like saying "I love you" to someone you shouldn't – and you might think twice. You could be telling the world.

Richard Serra's sculpture, Tilted Spheres, which dominates the 37,000-square-metre "hammerhead" at the end of the pier, is like the Whispering Gallery in St. Paul's Cathedral – it transmits sound. Say something quietly at one end of the curved sheets of steel and the people at the other end will hear you.

Pier F, opening at midnight Monday as Terminal 2 dies unmourned, is full of biggers, betters, longers and fasters.

Biggest duty-free store; fastest moving walkway, bigger customs hall, more remote check-in terminals, more baggage carousels, easier ... everything.

Chief among the bad things that are disappearing is the evil Terminal 2, with its low ceilings, harsh lighting and lack of room. Even on a quiet day, it made you irritable. At busy times, as the lineups grew and your personal space shrank, it was one big temper-tantrum flashpoint.

The infield satellite terminal, with an irksome bus ride out to the planes, is being mothballed. It's likely only to be used a few times a year.

With an $800 million construction tab, Pier F invites superlatives, demands a "gee whiz!" But what's even more significant is that for the first time in a long time, Pearson International isn't simply replacing existing facilities.

"This is an addition," says GTAA spokesperson Scott Armstrong. "An addition to something new, at that. The new Terminal 1. We're adding capacity so we can be aggressive in going after new airlines and new routes. We're currently handling 31 million passengers a year. Pier F means we can now handle 38 million."

The aim is to handle them faster, with less muss, less fuss (you'll never do away with airport muss and fuss entirely) and get them from where they've come from to where they're going in one seamless manoeuvre.

Upgrades over the past decade, including new runways and taxiways, mean the airport could accommodate 50 million passengers a year. "We expect to reach that by 2020," Armstrong says. "Until now, the terminals have always been the choke-point for airport capacity."

Two gates in the Hammerhead can handle the giant new double-decker Airbus A380, which can carry more than 500 passengers. It's set to enter service by 2008. Armstrong expects a shakedown flight to Toronto some time this year to try out the airport facilities.

Jetliners, super-jumbo or not, are big and need a lot of space. Walking considerable distances is a fact of airport life. From the parking garage to the hammerhead is almost a kilometre – about the same as walking up Yonge St. from Queen's Quay to King. Even Hong Kong's Chek Lap Kok, constantly vying with Singapore's Changi as the world's top-rated airport, has signs telling passengers how long it'll take them to reach their departure gate – up to half an hour or more.

Armstrong says that, given a clear run with no check-in or security lineups – unlikely as that may be – you can be at the hammerhead in about 10 minutes. Thanks to North America's first high-speed moving walkway, a two-stage conveyor belt (no neck-snapping acceleration and deceleration when you get on and off) whisking you along at three times normal walking speed.

Along the way, you may notice through one of the huge windows a rectangle of asphalt on the concrete apron where jets taxi. That's the "footprint," Armstrong says, of the old Terminal 1, a concrete bunker with low ceilings and bad lighting that always had the feel of escaping from Soviet-era eastern Europe. This ghostly image on the ground is a reminder of how tiny and cramped it was. Terminal 2, soon to be torn down, was almost as bad.

Terminal 3, built in 1991, will continue to handle some U.S. and international airlines, including most charter flights. There will be no Terminal 2 for the foreseeable future, though the old one will be forgotten but not exactly gone. The goal is to recycle 98 per cent of the building, with metal, glass and copper cable being sold. Armstrong says 100 per cent of the concrete will be crushed on-site for the base layer of any new apron that is laid.

The green theme continues in the way lights are switched off automatically, depending on the available natural light. The airport was crippled during the Great Blackout of 2003 because it was down to 50 per cent power, cutting in half the speed with which planes could be dealt with. Pier F, Armstrong says, wouldn't be affected by a similar blackout. It has its own power plant.

Terminal 3 and the new Terminal 1, which opened in April, 2004, are spacious, light and airy. Pier F continues this with high ceilings and long skylights. The planners have identified potential roadblocks and tried to deal with them. For instance, passengers transferring between international and American flights won't have to schlep all the way down the pier and back. Satellite customs and immigration posts have been set up at the hammerhead. To catch your connecting flight, you just go up or down a level.

Passengers on some routes used to be bused to the infield satellite terminal. That will only be used at peak periods, such as Christmas, March break and next time Detroit hosts the Superbowl.

Every big airport has to make do with remote terminals.

At London's Heathrow, many planes are a 20-minute bus ride from the terminals. Being stuffed onto a bus as crammed as a TTC streetcar at rush-hour is the last thing you need after a long, overnight flight.

Pier F's customs hall, Armstrong says, is one of the biggest in North America. There are more baggage carousels (served by 11 kilometres of baggage belts) so passengers from two or three flights won't be jostling to get their luggage from one place. But it's still a bothersome toonie to get a baggage cart.

They're even taking some of the hassle out of spending your money. The 930-square-metre duty-free area is arguably the largest on the continent, with everything from booze to mp3 players – and the inevitable maple syrup – in one place. There are other stores outside the duty-free area and a wide choice of food and drink, from Starbucks to a rum bar.

That's good business sense. But there's smart thinking going on all over Pier F. Room has been made to put in a road between planes parked at the gates and the building itself. When a jet moves, all ground transport around it – fuel-tankers, catering trucks, whatever – has to stop. If a jet is pushed back from the gate and then develops a problem, it can produce a traffic snarl-up that delays other aircraft. But this terminal-hugging road avoids that.

Arrivals areas aren't always inviting. Terminal 2 and the old Terminal 1 had dingy little spaces where everyone crowded forward, elbows jostling, to spot their loved ones. Pier F has a big open space where Pier F joins Terminal 1. Passengers emerge on a platform raised about half a metre so they're easily visible without anyone being crushed.

So simple and, when you've seen it, so obvious. But who figures all this stuff out?

"Someone smarter than me," says Armstrong. "There's a logistics staff dedicated to bridges, gates, baggage handling and the use of space and facilities."

For anyone arriving who can't speak English or French, staff can handle at least 60 languages. "Our information people have to be tri-lingual," Armstrong says. "We try to have different `tri's.'"

In 2005, Pearson was rated 17th best airport in North America and 29th in the world. It's expected now to climb in the ratings.

Without seeing it full of people, it's impossible to judge how well it'll live up to its promise. But it looks terrific – spacious, laid out logically and ingeniously planned. It hasn't been cobbled together in the hope that it'll work fairly well most of the time. It's meant to be hospitable while you're there but to keep you there for as short a time possible.

Inevitably, sooner or later, passengers are going to find themselves stuck in the hammerhead waiting for a long-delayed flight. The fixed arms on the seats mean you can't stretch out and sleep. And the upper level has a couple of bridges that have glass walls. If you're jet-lagged and not paying attention, it can seem suddenly as if there's nothing there to stop you falling off. Instant vertigo.

Otherwise, Pier F looks as good as anything Hong Kong or Singapore or Amsterdam's Schiphol – a perennial Top 5 contender – can offer. It should be as pleasant an experience as flying in these overcrowded times can be.

But any airport lives and dies by how easy it is to access. Even a rusty old clunker like Heathrow has a state-of-the-art rail link that connects with central London in less than 20 minutes. Hong Kong has a similar service (that can even take you to the local Disney World). Passengers using Pearson as a hub to connect to other destinations won't care. But for those starting and ending their journeys in Toronto, getting to and from the airport remains the worst part of the experience. We greet the world with a broad and welcoming smile but it rapidly turns into a gap-toothed grin.

That should be a guilty secret.

yyzer

January 27th, 2007, 05:28 PM

from Hume:

Bright and airy, it takes flight
TheStar.com - News - Bright and airy, it takes flight
January 27, 2007
Christopher Hume

At a time when air travel has become hell on Earth, Toronto's Pearson airport actually manages to take flight.

The new wing, officially Pier F, is everything most such terminals aren't – airy, light-filled and maybe even a nice place to be. Given the appalling tedium and tortuousness, not to mention manifest paranoia, of getting around by plane in North America, that's no mean feat.

Here is an airport whose builders fully understand, even embrace, the power of art and architecture. Where most such facilities – Heathrow, O'Hare, LaGuardia – appear to have been designed for maximum confusion and discomfort, Pearson hasn't forgotten that behind every frustrated traveller there lurks a real human being waiting to get out.

Indeed, with its impressive sense of cultural awareness, this is an airport that seeks to engage visitors not just as consumers of bad food and overpriced merchandise, but also as thinking, feeling creatures. Of course, one would have liked more, but anytime you can go to a regional hub and encounter artworks by major artists, you know something's right.

In Toronto's case, the most obvious example is Richard Serra's Tilted Spheres, an enormous piece comprised of four gently curving steel plates that rise from the ground, exquisite and undisturbed. Carefully situated to create their own echo, they form a marvellous interactive mini-environment unto themselves. It will stop people dead in their tracks just to experience the amazing things it does with sound. Though there's a sense that the piece is crowded by the surrounding retail, it has the heft to hold its own.

"It will be the first thing passengers see when they arrive and the last thing they see when they leave," explains Boston-based architect Moshe Safdie, who with SOM and Adamson Associates designed the facility.

The monumentality of Serra's 120-tonne installation notwithstanding, the most popular artwork will probably be Gwynn Murrill's life-sized bronze tigers. However unlikely, the two felines seem right at home among the seating of the Pier F hammerhead. This is sculpture at its most accessible, the kind of work that kids will love as much as adults.

Dereck Revington's more abstract, Skin of fLight, is less striking. This three-part piece offers a moment of stillness in the endless stream of people moving through the airport, like a stone in a river. Resembling a series of frozen splashes, it seems destined to be a climbing feature for children, if not their parents.

The other big work is Sol LeWitt's Wall Drawing #1100, Concentric Bands, located at the opposite end of Pier F, where it connects to Terminal 1. Bold,and hard to miss, it will become a beacon that animates the pier.

As Safdie points out, the artworks will serve as interior landmarks, one more way to help visitors negotiate Pearson's vast spaces.

But as he also makes clear, the logistics of North American airports are made especially difficult by extraordinarily demanding security requirements.

"The big decision that was made at the start of the process, and what makes this the most complicated airport in the word, is the division of travellers into various categories," Safdie says. "We had to link them but keep them separate all along the process. To make matters worse, we had to be able to switch gates depending on which group is using them." These categories are determined by country of departure and destination, and whether passengers are staying or connecting. Given that U.S. travel restrictions are so stringent, the hope is that Pearson will be able to take business away from American airports in the future.

"I dread a trip through the U.S. when I have to go through one of the hubs," Safdie says. "I would rather fly to Singapore or Hong Kong. Travel in North America has become a nightmare."

No architect or artist can change that, of course, but they can ameliorate the experience.

"I think the most important thing is direction," he continues. "It has to be self-explanatory. We used light to do that. We wanted to achieve clarity of space and generosity of space, and avoid that generic and anonymous feel so typical of large airports."

The architects' best touch, perhaps, was to let the structure be the architecture and architecture the structure. The languid curves of the roof are clearly visible as are the beams and cables that support them. The walls, inside and out, are largely glass, which allows for maximum transparency.

It may not be enough to make travelling fun, but at least we will be able to see where we're going.

yyzer

January 27th, 2007, 05:30 PM

Food chosen for comfort
TheStar.com - QuickFacts - Food chosen for comfort
January 27, 2007
Hungry Pearson passengers longing for familiar brands, meals and prices will feel right at home in Pier F. Sixteen food and beverage spots in eight "zones" boast trustworthy names like Tim Hortons, Starbucks, Pizza Pizza and the Molson Pub (the only concept relocating from Terminal 2). Popular chain Casey's goes Euro with Via Della Bici, and rum purveyor Bacardi offers up Latin-inspired bar and grill Casa Bacardi.

There are quick service spots, restaurants with table service and made-to-fly meals. Since most of the people passing through will be Canadians taking U.S. or international flights, eating and drinking options were chosen to please them. "Travel has become such a stressful thing for many, many people and brands just provide the public with that extra sense of comfort," explains GTAA retail initiatives manager Janine Gervais.

New bars include the Queen St. Bar in the U.S. section of the terminal, the Gardiner Bar in the U.S. part of the pier, and the Island Bar in the hammerhead. – Jennifer Bain

rlapidus

January 28th, 2007, 06:25 PM

sumisu

January 28th, 2007, 06:37 PM

Taller, Better

January 28th, 2007, 07:12 PM

It is an airport, not a fine dining experience. I doubt if there is any plot afoot. These are fairly typical Canadian food outlets, frequented by people of all backgrounds. If I am travelling, say to Mexico, I kind of like to see typical local food outlets.

sumisu

January 28th, 2007, 07:20 PM

who said fine-dining? quick, fast, good food is possible. they have that Casey's, I'm sure that's a sit down place, and it sounds fancier than a few decent restaurants. this if for US-bound right? I wonder if they have any plans for the international wing.

Epi

January 28th, 2007, 07:45 PM

Has anyone seen or figured out how the high-speed moving sidewalks along the upper-level of Pier F work? They're apparently interconnected metal plates, like a flat escalator, but their speed varies from 2.3 to 7.2 km/h along the 300m length. How does this work without gaps appearing as speed incrases or plates disappearing as speed decreases? Are there sections with guard rails? I can't imagine people safely being shuffled from one section at one speed to another section at a faster or slower speed.

I've been on one of these ultra high speed moving sidewalks in the Paris Metro, so I assume it will work the same way.

The flat plates there were pretty big... when it got to the ends, the plates would crunch up (one over another) and thus go slow, then in the middle the plates would seperate (but the plates were big enough that no gaps appeared) then crunch up again at the other side.

I guess the best way to think about it is like a ski lift. It's pretty cool to ride on one of these things I have to say.

Taller, Better

January 28th, 2007, 07:47 PM

I had a nifty mental image of a high speed people mover and a pile of crumpled travellers at the far end after they get dumped off! :lol:

sumisu

January 28th, 2007, 08:18 PM

you always get two people blocking the way on those things, totally oblivious to the line up quickly developing behind them.

Tuscani01

January 28th, 2007, 09:38 PM

I've been on one of these ultra high speed moving sidewalks in the Paris Metro, so I assume it will work the same way.

The flat plates there were pretty big... when it got to the ends, the plates would crunch up (one over another) and thus go slow, then in the middle the plates would seperate (but the plates were big enough that no gaps appeared) then crunch up again at the other side.

I guess the best way to think about it is like a ski lift. It's pretty cool to ride on one of these things I have to say.
Thats exactly how the ones at Pearson work.

Taller, Better

January 29th, 2007, 01:19 AM

you always get two people blocking the way on those things, totally oblivious to the line up quickly developing behind them.

Ah yes, but don't forget when they reach the end and tumble down in my imaginary pile, they will be on the bottom! :lol:

CrazyCanuck

January 29th, 2007, 03:48 AM

Tuscani01

January 29th, 2007, 06:38 AM

I hope it is like the one in Paris. Follow the link for an animation, it will explain everything. There are only a couple in the world I think so we are very special to have one already.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3001182.stm

hmm... it didnt show the individual plates on that one. Pearson's has a bunch of plates which either move further apart or closer together depending on which section you are travelling on. I was watching how it worked when I went for the trial, but couldnt really understand it. It did look fast though!

Filip

January 29th, 2007, 06:46 AM

Remember those plates Tuscani? Haha, especially me tryin to figure out what the hell they were...

ggaleazz

January 29th, 2007, 07:53 PM

Hmm is that walkway something that could be implemented at spadina station if and when the TTC actually has money

sumisu

January 29th, 2007, 08:30 PM

Hmm is that walkway something that could be implemented at spadina station if and when the TTC actually has money
they're probably better suited for long distance walks, where do you have to walk 500m or so on the TTC?

Taller, Better

January 29th, 2007, 09:31 PM

they're probably better suited for long distance walks, where do you have to walk 500m or so on the TTC?

The Spadina/St George one is very long, and would benefit by high speed.

sumisu

January 30th, 2007, 05:41 AM

yeah I suppose so.

Tuscani01

January 30th, 2007, 08:23 AM

Hmm is that walkway something that could be implemented at spadina station if and when the TTC actually has money

I was thinking the same thing. It would be nice to have... maybe even take some pressure off St. George.

caliostro

May 9th, 2007, 02:03 AM

Are there any updates? New photos?

ale26

May 9th, 2007, 04:36 AM

enough talk..post some pictures..some updates for god sakes !

phunky

May 9th, 2007, 12:36 PM

Huh?
There is nothing new to report... and there won't be for awhile.

ale26

May 9th, 2007, 10:09 PM

pictures can u fkn read..

Bertez

May 9th, 2007, 11:07 PM

^^and he said that there is nothing new.....

Dino Domingo

May 10th, 2007, 05:58 AM

pictures can u fkn read..

Be nice.

ONEILLT

May 10th, 2007, 02:36 PM

This is nothing to do with any update but yesterday I read that Vancouver International Airport is reducing their landing fees by up to 30% for international carriers, how can they do that and what's happening to the Toronto 'movement'. I still can't believe that Toronto ranks number 1 in the world for most expensive landing fees, this is not good for the economy and it's going to scare some carriers away (some have left already).

yin_yang

May 10th, 2007, 02:55 PM

i was just at charles de gaulle yesterday and it looks very much like one of our terminals (the one that looks like a slice of white canteloupe)...very corporate and sterile, but lots of light. saw the NEW terminal, and blech. it's functional but not creative. greece would be jealous.

Taller, Better

May 10th, 2007, 05:23 PM

pictures can u fkn read..

What is with all the attitude? You confined to a hospital bed and unable to get on the TTC?

Filip

May 10th, 2007, 09:49 PM

ale26

May 10th, 2007, 10:13 PM

What is with all the attitude? You confined to a hospital bed and unable to get on the TTC?

wtf yea im gonna hop on the TTC and go to the airport to take pictures ru messed:| i have way better things to do then waste my time on that..

yyzer

May 11th, 2007, 04:27 AM

i have way better things to do then waste my time on that..

then why would you ask for pictures?

nitzomoe

May 11th, 2007, 04:38 AM

this is not good for the economy and it's going to scare some carriers away (some have left already).

not really, the only airline to have cut service was el al, and that was because the route was traditionally not profitable to begin with the number of flights they had.

b13

May 11th, 2007, 04:52 AM

^ the truth is that airlines will not move out because the population base in the GTA is the highest in the country and is growing at a rapid pace. But Pearson would be so much more succesful if the government would cut our property taxes jus like the other major airports. This is how you know the government must have a grudge against Toronto and the GTA. Why would you cut taxes at Vancouvers airport, Montreal's airport etc. and not cut taxes at the buggest airport in Canada? What I don't understand is that why don't the governments help Toronto to become more succesful so the hole country will prosper. If Toronto as the economic powerhouse of Canada is struggling then wouldn't you think the whole of Canada might feel the effects?

ScrapeTheSky

May 11th, 2007, 05:12 AM

globetrekker

May 11th, 2007, 05:15 AM

Are they no longer mailing out issues of 'Pearson Today'? I haven't received one in awhile. Does anyone else receive YYZ's publication via postal mail?

yyzer

May 28th, 2007, 04:22 AM

They have finally started demolition of Terminal 2....starting at what was formerly the international end......:)

Jaye101

May 28th, 2007, 06:53 AM

wtf yea im gonna hop on the TTC and go to the airport to take pictures ru messed:| i have way better things to do then waste my time on that..

Be nice and talk appropriately to the other forum members. :)

camel_trainer

May 28th, 2007, 04:47 PM

Taller, Better

May 28th, 2007, 04:54 PM

No one is crazy about the high taxes at the Pearson airport, but carriers have no choice if they want to operate out of Toronto. We can thank our Federal government for yet again fleecing Toronto by milking absurd amounts of cash from our airport to subsidize other airports in Canada, especially the small ones.
Why do we put up with it?

Filip

May 28th, 2007, 04:54 PM

I have heard that more carriers, not fewer, will be using Pearson. Apparently the security at U.S. airports is a hassle and if possible, airlines will use Toronto as an alternative to a U.S. stop. Not sure how this would all work or if it's even possible, but it makes some sense in theory.

That's what we all heard! Well, I hope it's a reality, I want to see a slew of Asian airlines, maybe Qantas would come back, and I'd love to see a few more European legacy carriers. The fact that Swiss doesn't fly here pains me to no end... Middle East airlines are knocking at Pearson's door.. We can expect to see Kuwait Airlines, Qatar Airways and Emirates in the coming months/years.

Taller, Better

May 28th, 2007, 05:02 PM

Filip

May 28th, 2007, 05:21 PM

^^Does Swiss fly to Canada at all? I thought they used to fly into Pearson..
There are other reasons why some carriers no longer use Pearson, and those are internal reasons. I was shocked recently to hear that Varig went under.

Yes, they fly to Montreal. Some antiquated contract/bilateral gives Swiss access to the Montreal market, while Air Canada gets access to the Zurich market from Toronto. Swissair used to fly to Toronto and Montreal, but Swissair was a significantly larger, established airline. That symbol of Switzerland went bankrupt in 2001:( I remember flying that airline to Toronto for the first time!

RIP!

http://md-eleven.net/phy/clim/49303/SR-MD11-s-ZRH.jpg

I heard about Varig too.. My grandpa flew it when he visited Sao Paolo decades ago...
Btw, about the internal reasons - that is true! I know for a fact that Singapore Airlines are kept away from the Toronto market by Air Canada and Canada itself.. This is also true for many other airlines. Air Canada tries too hard to hold a complete monopoly on the Toronto market... Btw, last time I was at Pearson, I saw another great sight at the international pier of T3.. An Air France jumbo parked by a British Airways jumbo...

yyzhyd

May 28th, 2007, 10:30 PM

Yes, they fly to Montreal. Some antiquated contract/bilateral gives Swiss access to the Montreal market, while Air Canada gets access to the Zurich market from Toronto. Swissair used to fly to Toronto and Montreal, but Swissair was a significantly larger, established airline. That symbol of Switzerland went bankrupt in 2001:( I remember flying that airline to Toronto for the first time!

RIP!

http://md-eleven.net/phy/clim/49303/SR-MD11-s-ZRH.jpg

I heard about Varig too.. My grandpa flew it when he visited Sao Paolo decades ago...
Btw, about the internal reasons - that is true! I know for a fact that Singapore Airlines are kept away from the Toronto market by Air Canada and Canada itself.. This is also true for many other airlines. Air Canada tries too hard to hold a complete monopoly on the Toronto market... Btw, last time I was at Pearson, I saw another great sight at the international pier of T3.. An Air France jumbo parked by a British Airways jumbo...

After reading so much about how AC this and Canadian govt. that I figured I would break my lurker status and finally post here.

This is the truth about why Singapore's Bilateral Air Agreement with Canada was terminated.
SQ used to fly SIN-VIE-YYZ (IIRC) back in the 80s. At that time Air Canada flew YYZ-LHR-BOM-SIN.
Basically SQ didn't like that AC was eating away at their market share on the lucrative Bombay-Singapore leg and lobbied their Govt. to suspend the ability of AC to pickup passengers in BOM. The Canadian Govt. rightly suspended SQ's traffic rights between Vienna and Toronto.

As far as Emirates and YYZ, that's a long story...

Taller, Better

May 29th, 2007, 12:27 AM

There are always going to be some airlines dropping out and other new ones coming in. They may not like paying the high fees, but unlikely many bona fide
airlines would actually drop out for that reason. From what I heard they are fully expecting the new expansion to make way for a lot of new airlines.

yyzer

May 29th, 2007, 01:06 AM

YYZHYD, regarding the Singapore/Canada dispute, iirc AC flew the route YYZ-LHR-BOM-SIN starting in 1985...and then flew it for 5 uninterrupted years, with full traffic rights between LHR-BOM and BOM-SIN..I was told at the time that it was a 'goldmine'...in the spring of 1990, SQ started SIN-VIE-YYZ, and I think maybe SIN-AMS-YYZ, 3 flights per week with 747-400s...after maybe 30 days, the Canadian government cancelled their Canadian license....you have quoted the official version about what happened, as reported on other forums....but what I find curious, is that at no time during the 5 years from 1985 to 1990 did AC lose their 5th freedoms ex-LHR or between BOM and SIN...I was there working at Pearson at the time, and would remember...

So it seems odd that AC enjoyed full traffic freedoms for 5 years, and after SQ started YYZ, within 30 days the Canadians cancelled their license..SQ was given one year's notice, and they continued to fly to YYZ for that year, their last flight was one year to the day after the notice was given. During that time there were several attempts to negotiate out of the problem, but to no avail. The whole thing seemed like dirty politics to me.

On a brighter note, SQ and AC seem to be co-operating more these days, as they code-share on AC's LHR-YYZ flights, and are both members of Star Alliance...SQ's YVR flights are operated under a special permit, in the absence of a bilateral air agreement. Hopefully, with the Blue Skies Agreements now being negotiated, one day we will see SQ back in YYZ.

As for Emirates, time will tell...

phunky

May 29th, 2007, 02:01 AM

I did not realize how the celing is supported in all of the pictures of the terminal that I saw before. It's so cool!
It's cables holding up the pillars to the roof.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/234/518301358_5c284192ff_o.jpg
Taken by: http://www.flickr.com/people/beltzner/

yyzhyd

May 29th, 2007, 05:05 PM

yyzer,

In August 1991, Singapore Airlines was notified by the Canadian government that its thrice-weekly service to Toronto via Amsterdam and Vienna would be canceled effective in mid-August of 1992.

The simple entry into the Toronto market wasn't the issue.
It was primarily because there was a dispute over SQ picking up passengers in Amsterdam for Toronto and vice-versa. The agreement was that passengers could be picked up only from Vienna not Amsterdam.

Therefore the complaint filed by AC regarding this practice led to the CTA cancelling the bilateral agreement.

Emirates:
Canada should be tough with Emirates. Every market that EK enters it's looking to poach O&D traffic and route it through their hub in DXB.
In Toronto EK is looking to grab the mostly VFR traffic to South Asia. There is very little Canada-UAE O&D traffic. This is a distinct disadvantage to AC as they do not have the rights to pick up passengers in Dubai and take them to India/Pakistan etc.

If Emirates is willing to give AC that right I doubt AC or the Canadian Govt. would have an issue renegotiating the bilateral agreement.

Just think, if Emirates hadn't been so greedy and insisted on daily frequency from day they could've been at YYZ. Instead Etihad is here and is doing well. This Saturday June 2 will be the first non-stop flight by Etihad to YYZ using their A340-500s.

yyzer

May 30th, 2007, 02:02 AM

yyzhyd....my mistake, it was July, 1991 (not 1990) when SQ started their YYZ ops...by your comments, it seems you are basically confirming what I suggested, it was AC complaining about SQ's fifth freedoms out of Europe that caused cancellation of the route authority. That's what I remember, it was Big News in the Canadian travel press at the time too, I can still recall an interview with the managing director of SQ, he stated that the Canadians had offered variations on YYZ access, including one with a mandatory stop in NYC, but the Singaporeans declined. He went on to say that they had lost around $6 million on start-up costs on the YYZ route, and that SQ were very, very disappointed at the outcome. Unfortunately today, there is some revisionist history on certain forums on the net, which blames the Singapore government for starting the whole mess, but I don't believe that version, it's just not logical, and again, it's not what I remember.

There seems to have been a sea-change with the Canadian government over the last little while, as it has embraced open markets to a much greater extent than before. The only airline that seems to intimidate them these days is EK, and I guess there is good reason for that.

Still, great to see much more open access to all Canadian airports, especially YYZ.

yyzer

yyzhyd

May 30th, 2007, 03:22 AM

Yes but with the caveat that it was Singapore Airlines' that committed the "mistake" of taking on passengers at their Amsterdam stop - which was not part of the bilateral agreement - that led to Air Canada's complaint.

Emirates will be at YYZ eventually, they just wont be able to dictate their terms. :)

Filip

May 30th, 2007, 04:53 AM

I hope to see a couple of these airlines back.. seems the 90s were Pearson's golden age.

yyzer

May 30th, 2007, 05:17 AM

Filip.....this is Pearson's golden age. When you combine the long list of current and pending carriers we have, with the massive redevelopment that has just completed, times are good.....:)

There were a few carriers that came and went in the 1990's, but that happened at many airports in North America. Most of the ones that pulled out did so because of problems with their company (i.e. they went broke)...that's the airline business, never a dull moment...

Meanwhile, Pearson has continued to evolve into one of the world's important hubs.

We will continue to add carriers and flights, I am sure.

Filip

May 30th, 2007, 05:47 AM

I guess you're right.. I hope to see TAP, Iberia, Swiss, SAS.. etc out of the old 90's list back one day!

phunky

May 30th, 2007, 09:30 AM

Out with the old, in with the new maybe?

isaidso

May 30th, 2007, 09:37 AM

^^I was shocked recently to hear that Varig went under.

When did that happen? What name are they resurfacing under, or are other Brazilian carriers simply picking up the slack, gates, etc.

Filip

May 30th, 2007, 03:19 PM

Out with the old, in with the new maybe?

Out with the old in with the unknown?

According to one of our forumers, a GTAA marketing specialist said Emirates are close to making an announcement about the YYZ route.

yyzhyd

May 30th, 2007, 03:53 PM

An announcement should be made fairly soon re: new Canada-UAE bilateral.
Hopefully during or shortly after the Airport Show in Dubai this week.
The rumoured start date that has been floating around for Emirates to YYZ is Oct. 27, 2007.

In addition...
Cathay Pacific looks like it will be upgrading to the A340-600 or 777-300ER starting this September followed by a second daily flight next year.

Filip

May 30th, 2007, 03:57 PM

Taller, Better

May 30th, 2007, 04:45 PM

When did that happen? What name are they resurfacing under, or are other Brazilian carriers simply picking up the slack, gates, etc.

I don't know, so far.... but it is creating problems. Air Canada is still doing the direct Toronto to Sao Paulo flight, but it is even more crowded, and I believe more $$ now. Flights withing Brazil have gone up in price. For such a huge country it is shocking that they allowed it to collapse, and that there is not another major carrier. We are thinking of going again in January, so it is a bit of a concern.

Filip

May 30th, 2007, 04:49 PM

I don't know, so far.... but it is creating problems. Air Canada is still doing the direct Toronto to Sao Paulo flight, but it is even more crowded, and I believe more $$ now. Flights withing Brazil have gone up in price. For such a huge country it is shocking that they allowed it to collapse, and that there is not another major carrier. We are thinking of going again in January, so it is a bit of a concern.

Well I'm sure that if the demand is there, TAM (the new big Brazilian carrier) will pick up the slack... Varig and VASP, both of which flew to TO long ago, are under "reconstruction".. Maybe once they're back on their feet we'll see new routes to YYZ.

yyzhyd

May 30th, 2007, 08:42 PM

FYI... another teaser on EK
Just noticed that Emirates Airlines has been added to the designated carriers list on the Canada-UAE bilateral as of April 5, 2007.

http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/air-aerien/agreements/html/united_arab_emirate_e.html

nitzomoe

May 30th, 2007, 09:32 PM

looks like its a done deal then. im crossing my fingers for daily by it only looks like twice weekly(they ahvent amended the amount of flights)

ChaoticTranquility

May 31st, 2007, 12:17 AM

looks like another Middle Eastern airline is going to be added to the list: Kuwait Airways.

found this article while i was scouring for any Middle Eastern carriers that were planning future Canadian routes (particularly Toronto), and this one came up. interesting read: http://www.kuna.net.kw/home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=984663

let's hope all of this comes into effect as soon as it can.

kuwaiti_patriot

yyzer

May 31st, 2007, 12:38 AM

for any of you spotters in Toronto, apparently Etihad is operating tonight with the A340-500, for the first time here....the flight is scheduled to arrive tonight at around 2200, via Brussels...It will then overnight, going out tomorrow morning /nonstop/ to Abu Dhabi...

This is a couple of days before the schedule change was expected..as of Saturday, they operate nonstop with A340-500 in both directions....

cheers! :cheers:

yyzer

May 31st, 2007, 01:31 AM

Well, here we go...just posted at the CTA government website, permission for EK to begin selling seats, presumably out of YYZ, while their license is being processed...........:banana:

Order No. 2007-A-176
May 29, 2007

IN THE MATTER OF an exemption from section 59 of the Canada Transportation Act, S.C., 1996, c. 10, to permit Emirates to sell, cause to be sold or publicly offer for sale in Canada a scheduled international service between the United Arab Emirates and Canada.
File No. M4212/E217-4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Emirates (hereinafter the applicant) has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (hereinafter the Agency) for the exemption set out in the title. The application was received on May 17, 2007.

Section 59 of the Canada Transportation Act (hereinafter the CTA) prohibits an applicant from selling, causing to be sold or publicly offering for sale in Canada an air service without holding a licence in respect of that service. The applicant has applied for a scheduled international licence to operate a service between the United Arab Emirates and Canada. However, as the application is not yet complete, an exemption from the application of section 59 of the CTA is necessary in order to allow the applicant to sell, cause to be sold or publicly offer for sale in Canada the proposed air service prior to obtaining the applied for licence.

The applicant states that it proposes to start operating its service between the United Arab Emirates and Canada on October 28, 2007 and that it is in the process of obtaining a Canadian Foreign Air Operator Certificate issued by Transport Canada which is required to complete the licence application. Consequently, the applicant submits that in order for the proposed service to be viable, it must be able to offer for sale the service at the earliest possible date.

The Agency has carefully reviewed and considered the application and is of the opinion that in order for the proposed service to be viable, the applicant must be able to offer for sale seats at the earliest possible date. Therefore, the Agency finds that compliance by the applicant with section 59 of the CTA is impractical in the present circumstances.

Accordingly, the Agency, pursuant to paragraph 80(1)(c) of the CTA, hereby exempts the applicant from the application of section 59 of the CTA, thereby permitting the applicant to sell, cause to be sold or publicly offer for sale in Canada a scheduled international service between the United Arab Emirates and Canada, effective from the date of this Order, without holding the required licence, subject to the following conditions:

1. All passengers shall be notified, before reservation, that the international scheduled service is subject to government approval. All future advertising in any media, whether in writing or by telecommunication, shall also include this information.

2. The applicant shall apply its published tariffs, on file with the Agency and in effect, to sales of transportation.

3. The exemption authorized herein does not relieve the applicant from the requirement to hold a licence in respect of the service to be provided and, accordingly, no flights shall be operated until the appropriate licence authority has been granted.

4. The applicant shall arrange to provide alternative air transportation by an appropriately licensed air carrier, at no additional cost for all passengers who have made reservations with the applicant, or, if such arrangements are not possible or acceptable to the passenger, to provide a full refund of all monies paid by the passenger, should the international scheduled licence not issue.

The exemption granted herein does not exempt the applicant from the requirements of other legislative acts or regulations, including those of Transport Canada.

Filip

May 31st, 2007, 02:35 AM

Yay! Now we're truly "world class":lol:

nitzomoe

May 31st, 2007, 04:37 AM

it doesnt say how many flights a week, hopefully daily!

globetrekker

May 31st, 2007, 05:55 AM

I wonder what aircraft Emirates would use. Any ideas?

TObermuda37

May 31st, 2007, 01:40 PM

Now I know you are all excited about Emirates but in that website it also shows that AC is seeking an exemption to start sales of tickets for Singapore. If they have applied for it, then how far behind do you think Singapore Airliens will be? Here is the link: http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/rulings-decisions/orders/2007/A/2007-A-173_e.html

The full information is listed here:

May 29, 2007

IN THE MATTER OF an application for an exemption from the application of section 59 of the Canada Transportation Act, S.C., 1996, c. 10, to permit Air Canada to sell, cause to be sold or publicly offer for sale in Canada a scheduled international service, large aircraft and a scheduled international service, all-cargo aircraft, between Canada and the Republic of Singapore, in the absence of a licence.
File No. M4210/A74-4-46
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Canada applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (hereinafter the Agency) for the exemption set out in the title. The application was received on April 27, 2007.

Section 59 of the Canada Transportation Act (hereinafter the CTA) states that no person shall sell, cause to be sold or publicly offer for sale in Canada an air service unless, where required under Part II of the CTA, the person holds a licence under that part in respect of that service.

Under Licence No. 000153, Air Canada is authorized to operate a scheduled international service, large aircraft and a scheduled international service, all-cargo aircraft, on the route(s) set out in the Arrangement on Air Transport between the Government of Canada and the Government of the Republic of Singapore contained in an Agreed Minute signed on August 15, 1992.

Condition No. 3 of Licence No. 000153 states:

Unless terminated at an earlier date in accordance with the CTA or the Arrangement, this licence is in effect until October 27, 2007.

Air Canada states that compliance with section 59 of the CTA is undesirable if the travelling public is to be able to take advantage of its service without interruption between Canada and the Republic of Singapore.

The Agency has carefully reviewed and considered the application and is of the opinion that in order for the service to be viable, Air Canada must be able to continue selling seats without interruption. Therefore, the Agency finds that compliance by Air Canada with section 59 of the CTA is impractical in the present circumstances.

Accordingly, the Agency, pursuant to paragraph 80(1)(c) of the CTA, hereby exempts Air Canada from the application of section 59 of the CTA, effective from the date of this Order, thereby permitting the air carrier to sell, cause to be sold or publicly offer for sale in Canada a scheduled international service, large aircraft and a scheduled international service, all-cargo aircraft, between Canada and the Republic of Singapore for travel beyond October 27, 2007, without holding the required licence, subject to the following conditions:

1. The exemption authorized herein does not relieve Air Canada from the requirement to hold a licence in respect of the service to be provided and, accordingly, no flights shall be operated until the appropriate licence authority has been granted.

2. Should the scheduled international licence not issue by October 27, 2007, Air Canada shall arrange to provide alternative air transportation by an appropriately licensed air carrier, at no additional cost for all passengers who have made reservations with Air Canada or, if such arrangements are not possible or acceptable to the passenger, to provide a full refund of all monies paid by the passenger.

The exemption authorized herein is valid until October 27, 2007.

The exemption granted herein does not exempt Air Canada from the requirements of other legislative acts or regulations, including those of Transport Canada.

Also note that LAN has applied to fly cargo flights to Canada as well as MAS (Malaysian Airline System) has applied and received a license to start flying charter flights into Canada.

So, look for many new and interesting things happening soon.

Filip

May 31st, 2007, 01:50 PM

... It's like the 90's all over again:sly:! Europe, get off your high horse and come on down! I want direct links to Madrid.. jeez

yyzhyd

May 31st, 2007, 05:59 PM

I wonder what aircraft Emirates would use. Any ideas?

IMHO their 77W's

yyzer

May 31st, 2007, 06:06 PM

yyzhyd.....just wanted to say, thanks for your terrific input....it's much appreciated...:)

yyzhyd

May 31st, 2007, 07:35 PM

kuwaiti_patriot,
Not to piss on your parade, but I'd expect to see KU code-share with one of their partners, most probably Air France initally to YYZ.
This is because they have just 6 suitable aircraft 4 x A340s and 2 x B777s for long-haul destinations. These already have high utilization rates, and are allocated as follows;

New York 2x B777
Frankfurt 1x A340
Paris 1x A340
London 1x A340
Kuala Lumpur/Jakarta 1x A340
Bangkok/Manila 1x A340
(Not sure about the frequencies operated for these however)

IMO KU will need at least two additional long-range aircraft before they can effectively operate their own metal to Toronto. Sorry.

yyzer,
Thanks for the kind words.
I hope I add some valuable insight for everyone.

yyzer

June 1st, 2007, 01:07 AM

yyzhyd....was talking to a friend at the GTAA....he tells me that those TTC subway ads for QR are not a mistake....interesting, eh?

I am eagerly awaiting news of any new or updated 'blue skies' agreements....

CrazyCanuck

June 1st, 2007, 01:11 AM

You guys are on top of things! Great job on the quick updates.

yyzhyd

June 1st, 2007, 01:29 AM

IMO Qatar in YYZ probably not going to happen before late 2008, again due to lack of aircraft.

yin_yang

June 1st, 2007, 04:02 AM

wow, i don't think many people realize that air travel is another one of those things that is not free-market...i had no clue until now, very interesting reading on the past few pages...and what a load of shit. anyone know the reason why it's not pure competition?

hkskyline

June 1st, 2007, 06:47 AM

There are a lot of nationalist politics in commercial aviation. Even in the supposedly free market economies, there are a lot of behind-the-scenes negotiations for agreements to fly a certain number of flights to a certain number of cities.

Grey Towers

June 2nd, 2007, 04:47 AM

Where can one go to view takeoffs and landings? When I was a kid, my dad and I occasionally went to the top floor of T1 just for a couple of hours of plane-spotting; the observation deck there on level 9 was fantastic, and in that sense it's a shame the old terminal is gone. None of the other terminals is comparable.
I don't want to pay though. Anyone know of a good or popular spot in surrounding neighbourhoods?

phunky

June 2nd, 2007, 06:11 AM

There used to be an awesome parking lot off of Airport road north of Terminal 3 on the west side. But they closed it after 9/11. I dunno if it's still around or not.

Grey Towers

June 2nd, 2007, 06:37 AM

^Was the visibility good from the parking lot?
What was so great about the T1 top deck, and what surely can't be replicated with a ground-level location, was how one got such a centralized 360-degree overview of everything, from runway activity, to taxiing, to docking. If one got tired of the southeast view of the busiest runway (24L), one could just walk over to the southwest or northwest for a new perspective. A pity. It was ideal for aerophiles, and I'm going to miss it. I scratched my name in the railing there back on 5.15.89, if I recall.

phunky

June 2nd, 2007, 09:17 AM

It was amazing for being so close to the actual plane when it was landing and taking off.

yyzer

June 2nd, 2007, 02:45 PM

phunky, I think you are talking about what used to be the McDonnell Douglas parking lot....sadly, it is gone now (along with the McDonnell Douglas factory).

There aren't really any terrific places for spotting these days...some folks go to the parking lot at Wendy's, which is roughly across the street from where you mentioned...there is also a spot on the north side of the airport, off of Derry Rd., next to the Fedex facility...but sometimes the police will chase you away from there.

Taller, Better

June 2nd, 2007, 04:19 PM

When I was a kid you could just wander up to the departure lounge with your friends who were flying, and watch the planes all you like. Different now...

p5archit

June 4th, 2007, 05:40 AM

Ahh, the ever-lasting discussion about plane-spotting at Pearson.

First off, let me say that the GTAA has done nothing short of ruin every plane-spotting site possible: from the Mcdonnel Douglas building, to the Fed-Ex hill, each and ever site has been systematically removed for security purposes. Now you cannot even stand near/beside the perimeter fence without getting escorted away by police. I am all for security, but couldn't they at least build one or two sections to allow avid plane-spotters to view the planes- put up cc cameras and monitor the area, but at least make some space available. They are so concerned about security in and around the airport, but meanwhile I drove right into the airport cargo area in broad daylight, spent at least an hour hanging around watching planes and not one security or police officer noticed me- talk about holes..

That said, if you drive around the airport you should be able to get away with stopping every once and while for a bit- max 20 mins, but good enough for a couple of planes before you probably want to move on..

f*** the GTAA for this...really!

Taller, Better

June 4th, 2007, 06:26 AM

Well, I think it is all down to international terrorism, actually... not the GTAA being a spoilsport.

yyzhyd

June 4th, 2007, 04:22 PM

Well, I think it is all down to international terrorism, actually... not the GTAA being a spoilsport.

Bit of both actually, because if you look at places like Zurich, Amsterdam, Manchester etc. they have purpose-built facilities for spotters.

On a different note, it looks like Kuwait Airways will be buying new long-haul aircraft soon. I suspect we'll see them at YYZ with these new birds.
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13899:kuwait-airways-set-to-expand-fleet-&Itemid=75

Filip

June 4th, 2007, 04:27 PM

Bit of both actually, because if you look at places like Zurich, Amsterdam, Manchester etc. they have purpose-built facilities for spotters.

On a different note, it looks like Kuwait Airways will be buying new long-haul aircraft soon. I suspect we'll see them at YYZ with these new birds.
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13899:kuwait-airways-set-to-expand-fleet-&Itemid=75

In the GTAA's master plan, they allocated space for a viewing platform.. So I guess we will have spotting facilities eventually!

I've got a question, I did not know Toronto had such demand for Arab carriers... We're looking at Emirates, Qatar Airways, Kuwait Airways and Egypt Air and we already have Etihad Airways... I guess there's demand?

Taller, Better

June 4th, 2007, 04:40 PM

Bit of both actually, because if you look at places like Zurich, Amsterdam, Manchester etc. they have purpose-built facilities for spotters.

Oh, ok. Now I see your point. That would make sense. Spotters are a strange and wonderful breed!

Filip

June 4th, 2007, 04:50 PM

Oh, ok. Now I see your point. That would make sense. Spotters are a strange and wonderful breed!

I've never spotted.. but I have this weird obsession with airliners.. It's so weird.. Airlines! I can recognize their colour scheme from my school's field, since we're at the approach of the southern east/west runway.. My friends never get how I can go "LUFTHANSA" and they can't even tell IF that's a plane!

yin_yang

June 4th, 2007, 06:51 PM

In the GTAA's master plan, they allocated space for a viewing platform.. So I guess we will have spotting facilities eventually!

I've got a question, I did not know Toronto had such demand for Arab carriers... We're looking at Emirates, Qatar Airways, Kuwait Airways and Egypt Air and we already have Etihad Airways... I guess there's demand?

tons man, many high-tech companies now deal with the middle eas