Why does Madrid have such a huge Freeway network?

[Coneslammer]

I just happened to stumple across it while looking at google earth, and the network they have there is pretty breath-taking, especially by European standards. A few ring roads, tollways, C+D setups, and more freeway to freeway interchanges than I can count, compared to our 2 here in Sydney :( Not to mention plenty of lanes on each.

Anyway, does someone have some context or explaination of what's driving this huge boom in freeways? Wikipedia doesn't have a single thing to say about Madrid's roads, believe it or not, and I can't find much else on the net, so any comments from locals or people in the know, you're welcome.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j224/conanyeah/madrid.jpg

I mean, jesus christ, just south-east of the city they have 9 full on interchanges covering an area that appears to be practically empty, if i'm missing something I would love to know.

Edit: Oh, nice forums here by the way, glad I found 'em.

[z0rg]

Well, you should check the size of our subway network too :D

[MBV]

Yes, look for in Google "Metro de madrid" and see. Its grewing 20/30 kilometers each year!
Haigways? Conexions betwing roads?...1.000.000 at last!!

[Prestonian]

Spain had very very poor infrastructure after the Franco years and had to start from scratch essentially which is why the system looks so well planned. They also had the funding available to do it in a relatively short space of time thanks to substantial contributions from the EU structural fund.

[juanpe_r]

ok.....i´ll try explain you....but my english is not....very good!!! hehe
first thing:most of red roads ares also freeways ( i mean A42, M506, M503...etc... te red ones out the city)
why so many freeways??? Madrid has around 6 million in metropolitan area (national statics center (without ilegal innmigrants....and there are thousands...)
second....spanish road network was very very radial (not know taht they are making new corridors but yeas years ago) so everybody that wanted to cross the country must pass trought madrid. I mean for example....-.portuguesse people to france......(today they´ve got more roads....but in.,..1996 not..)
Madrid is a small city (area) for 6 million.....most of people live in flats....so the density is huge....and the traffic is near collapsed.
and.....for example......mmmmm.......a lot of the biggest construction companies int he world are spanish(FCC, ACS...)....so the must do things here also

[CrazyMac]

Spain had very very poor infrastructure after the Franco years and had to start from scratch essentially which is why the system looks so well planned. They also had the funding available to do it in a relatively short space of time thanks to substantial contributions from the EU structural fund.

Yeah, was going to say because they didnt have to pay for it.....

[Aquarius]

The population of the Community of Madrid has grown in a million in the last decade, the whole south zone will be urbanized in the next years, you can see many neighborhoods in construction.The sprawl every year is bigger .. specially in the zone west

The last year was inaugurated the new terminal of the airport, and more highways were constructed around it,also Madrid is in the center of Spain,it is a crossroads., all the regions of the center of Spain have a density of population of 25 inhabitants per sq/km (very low for Spain) except Madrid and thus it has 6 radial freeways (Autovias):

A1: Madrid-Bilbao
A2: Madrid-Zaragoza-Barcelona
A3: Madrid- Valencia
A4: Madrid- Sevilla
A5: Madrid - Lisboa
A6: Madrid: A coruña


The R1. R2,R4,R5 .... are six toll autopistas who started from Madrid to make less crowded the autovias

Many radial and rings = many interchanges

In addition the construction is very important in the Spanish productive system plus Madrid is one of the richest zones, plus is the capital plus euro fund


sorry by my english...

[willo]

Spain had very very poor infrastructure after the Franco years and had to start from scratch essentially which is why the system looks so well planned. They also had the funding available to do it in a relatively short space of time thanks to substantial contributions from the EU structural fund.

not very true.in fact many of this highways were made in Franco's era. and i have to say that only some spanish regions have benn subject of them and Madrid is not between on them. all highays you see are paid by spanish goverment or by madrilenian goverment or by private companies.European Funds to Madrid are very strange


you can aplly your hypotesis to other regions but not Madrid

[torke]

Spain had very very poor infrastructure after the Franco years and had to start from scratch essentially which is why the system looks so well planned. They also had the funding available to do it in a relatively short space of time thanks to substantial contributions from the EU structural fund.

I agree with Willo!! Madrid had many freeways built when Franco was (he died in 1975), in fact all the main ones (A-1, A-2, A-3, A-4, A-5, A-6, M-30...) although they were rufurbished after. Anyway, now we have more and more highways but the structure was already planned since years and years ago, Franco decided that Madrid was going to be the spanish Km0: he decided that all main freeways in Spain should be crossed in Madrid and he made it to come true (of course I am not making an apology of Franco but I know he built most of the dams and roads in the country as many other fucking shit of things!!!). Since Spain became a member of EU in 1986 much money came, mostly for those parts of the country with the lower gip, but Madrid is one of the most prosperous regions in the UE (GIP=27,279Euros in 2005) so it does not get much money from it. The thing is that in this area the density of population is hugh (760,40people/km2), we are more than 6 million people in 8028km2 so we can built in this small place the same roads for example the can built in the whole Catalunya (another region of Spain with same population more or less (6.506.440) but 32.114km2 size.

http://img282.imageshack.us/img282/4815/greatmadridsketchmapofmainhigh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

As your question Coneslammer, about those areas in the south/east of the city outskirsts... moslty of that parts are already built (Pau de Vallecas, Rivas-Futura...) or being built (Pau de Valdecarros, Pau de los Ahijones...) although u can not see them in Google Earth.

In the picture, south/east of Madrid outskirts (Pau de Vallecas) in June 2003:
http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/6402/1034031a7uz.gif (http://imageshack.us)

In the picture , south/east of Madrid outskirts (Pau de Vallecas) in June 2005:
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7135/dscn4753a7zt.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Anyway the traffic is complicated in areas without any construction because u need to pass throw them to reach other areas of the city and remember that many cars in Madrid are just travelling from any part of the Iberian Peninsula cross the city to other one.

MY ADVICE: Dont trust google earth to view Madrid, pictures are so old.

[Adam_Woowei]

Yeah, was going to say because they didnt have to pay for it.....

Don't talk about something you don't know. Incredible how some people really love to show their ignorance.

[Adam_Woowei]

Something to add is that most of the office areas from Madrid are in the outskirts. So, offices and indutries need to have good conections to be accesible to the workers or transportation.

[I-275westcoastfl]

Every big city needs a good highway network.

[Justme]

@Coneslammer, welcome to the forum. Hope the responses have answered your questions.

By the way, many cities in Europe have extensive freeways. The difference is, unlike the US, they don't go often into the central area, but are very common in the metro area. Pick up any map of the Netherland's road network and you will be blown away. Likewise, most German cities have very extensive autobahn networks in the metropolitan areas.

[godblessbotox]

are they still expanding it or is it stagnate like la?

[torke]

are they still expanding it or is it stagnate like la?
Madrid net is being expanded with new freeways and some toll motorways. They are now building the new toll motorway between Madrid and Toledo, close to A-42, they are creating express lanes in all the main freeways and they are working on the proyect for the M-60 (the fifth round ring freeway and for the R-1 (a toll motorway going north next to A-1). I am sure I forget something, maybe someone can help me.

[Obidos]

Madrid net is being expanded with new freeways and some toll motorways. They are now building the new toll motorway between Madrid and Toledo, close to A-42, they are creating express lanes in all the main freeways and they are working on the proyect for the M-60 (the fourth round ring freeway and for the R-2 (a toll motorway going north next to A-2). I am sure I forget something, maybe someone can help me.

Torke, R2 is already on service, they are maybe trying to build R-1 as an alternative to the A-1. Also local goverment is trying to close the ring of M-50 over the North, but there is a special protected area over there (Monte de El Pardo) and it is not clear what are they going to do. Also a part of M-501 ("road of reservoirs") will be a highway, but due to special protected area (Sierra-Mountains), it is not sure.

[torke]

Torke, R2 is already on service, they are maybe trying to build R-1 as an alternative to the A-1. Also local goverment is trying to close the ring of M-50 over the North, but there is a special protected area over there (Monte de El Pardo) and it is not clear what are they going to do. Also a part of M-501 ("road of reservoirs") will be a highway, but due to special protected area (Sierra-Mountains), it is not sure.



Sorry, I meant R-1, I dont know what the hell i was thinking in

[greek_eagle]

I just happened to stumple across it while looking at google earth, and the network they have there is pretty breath-taking, especially by European standards. A few ring roads, tollways, C+D setups, and more freeway to freeway interchanges than I can count, compared to our 2 here in Sydney :( Not to mention plenty of lanes on each.

Anyway, does someone have some context or explaination of what's driving this huge boom in freeways? Wikipedia doesn't have a single thing to say about Madrid's roads, believe it or not, and I can't find much else on the net, so any comments from locals or people in the know, you're welcome.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j224/conanyeah/madrid.jpg

I mean, jesus christ, just south-east of the city they have 9 full on interchanges covering an area that appears to be practically empty, if i'm missing something I would love to know.

Edit: Oh, nice forums here by the way, glad I found 'em.


The city of Madrid has a very good freeway system that incorporates well with the city's surface streets and highways. To add to this, Madrid's metro system is awesome!! Very well thought out....I remember on my last trip I forgot to purchase some items close to the Bull Ring on which was quite a ways by car so being by the palace..I walked a couple of blocks..took the metro [transfered twice] and was there within minutes....did the same thing and got back to the hotel within forty minutes. Incredibly efficient! The freeway system was also very well designed and of course worked quite well throughout the day with the exception of certain peak hours which is normal. They have started to expand Athens' metro system now...as well as the highway system...though most cities would wish to have a system like Madrid's!

[sojourner truth ™]

They have an amazing system... integrated metro/highway

[fernan]

Madrid FREEWAY Network
8 Mb :D

Buenas como sabéis haga mapas hasta de mi casa....

Bueno he decidido hacer un mapa de las autovías y autopistas de la Gran Madrid sobre ortofoto, y con bastante detalle, he incluido túneles que se están construyendo obras que se están ejecutando y que están planificadas. El fichero ocupa como 7 megas asi que os aconsejo que uséis el boton derecho y "guardar como", en el siguiente link:

MAPA DE CARRETERAS DE LA GRAN MADRID (http://three.fsphost.com/road/bb.jpg)

O si queréis podréis acceder pulsando sobre el thumbnail:


http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/8797/bbth8yp.jpg (http://three.fsphost.com/road/bb.jpg)

Un saludo!



Madrid METRO Network and Madrid COMMUTER RAIL Lines
8 Mb :D

Bueno , vamos a ser optimistas y como contraposición al sufrimiento que nos espera este verano a los usuarios de metro, os voy a poner la red de metro como va a quedar el trazado real en el 2007. Es un mapita de 8 megas usando imagenes de google maps y con todas las estaciones y lineas de metro, tranvía y cercanía que habrá tras ese año de inauguraciones en el 2007. las lineas discontinuas son las obras....

Yo os aconsejo que le déis a botón derecho+"Guardar como" sobre el URL:

Imegen de 8 megas (http://three.fsphost.com/gallardon/a/aa.jpg)

, porque ya os digo es de 8 megas.... pero de todas formas el que tenga adsl de 800 megabits/s que le de al thumbnail...

http://three.fsphost.com/gallardon/a/aath.jpg (http://three.fsphost.com/gallardon/a/aa.jpg)

Y para completarlo el mapa simbólico hecho tb por alguien del foro ( lo siento pero no recuerdo el nombre ) :cheers:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1646/pith5xh.jpg (http://three.fsphost.com/gallardon/a/pi.jpg)

[torke]

This last map is great!!! Well done!!

[fernan]

they are working on the proyect for the M-60 (the fifth round ring freeway)




Next future M-60 Freeway
Length: 170 Km.
Estimated budget: €1.5 Billion [$1.92 billion]

Parece que en los presupuestos de 2005 habrá dinero para el Estudio Informativo de la M-60 licitado en marzo de ese año.

Boceto de lo que será esa vía de circunvalación de unos 170 km y que ya no es accesible en la web del ministerio.

El coste estimado de construcción será de unos 1.500 M€. En el plano se ve también el previsible trazado de la M-50 soterrada por el Monte de El Pardo, y cuyo estudio también se licitó.

http://img41.exs.cx/img41/5351/M-60.jpg

[10ROT]

Madrid...is just WOW...

[Bertez]

I am amazed......truely amazed:D:D

[Sa Town Tx Gringo]

Very nice indeed did not see this one coming!

[Verso]

M-60?! 170 km?! :dizzy:

[torke]

It will has 170km long, it will be really in the outskirts, think M-30 is too small and it is just 30km

[torke]

M-30 videos link:

http://www.munimadrid.es/Principal/EnlacesHome/Calle30/Pres1/calle30.htm

[NeoWorld]

Just a few figures about Madrid economic growth:

1995 2005
Employed people 1,7 Million 3 Million
Employed inmigrants 30.000 544.570

GDP growth 2006: 4%

A great portion of that growth has been used to set up huge infrastructures, creating a virtuous circle. A clear example about how freedom applied to economy can give prosperity to people, more than just words about old politics.

And of course, Madrid is in the top 30 of 260+ regions in UE about GDP, so no integration funds are coming (just some derived form estate works)

[fernan]

M-30 videos link:

http://www.munimadrid.es/Principal/...es1/calle30.htm
That link is wrong




The correct one is:
Here you have a video collection from the promotional DVD which has been edited by the Madrid Council.

http://www.munimadrid.es/Principal/EnlacesHome/Calle30/Pres1/calle30.htm

I specially recommend you to watch the "Proyecto Madrid Rio" video, it's about the works along River Manzanares; and "Bypass Sur" video, about the construction of a 3km-tunnel to reduce surface traffic.
See also "Bypass Norte"





M-30 restructuring:
Budget: €3.9 billion [$5.0 billion]
Start: September 2004
End: April 2007


.

[titeness]

Yeah, was going to say because they didnt have to pay for it.....

They paid for it in that Spanish tax payers will have to help fund a large money pit project in some other odd country, thats how federal democracy works.

:scouserd:

[Kazurro]

Madrid dont receive funds from EU, this funds in fact are given to poorer regions in Spain ;)

[Extrematurensis]

We don´t have to pay for it??????

If that make you feel better................

but, it is not true. An do not forget, Spain has received money from EU yes, but in brief we will be net contribuitors, and we will feel happy about it. I hope we won´t be saying things like those that you say.

[samsonyuen]

I'm not sure if it applies to Madrid, but there are also militaristic advantages with having good connections between cities. This was one of the cases for the Eisenhower Interstate system in the US.

[torke]

MADRID TRAFFIC LIVE (some 24 hours traffic cameras, picture update every 2 minutes):
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00011&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00011.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00010&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00010.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00009&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00009.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00029&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00029.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00013&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00013.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00034&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00034.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00028&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00028.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00019&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00019.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00006&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00006.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00020&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00020.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00025&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00025.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00068&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00068.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00038&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00038.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00051&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00051.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00033&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00033.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00042&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00042.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00304&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00304.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00041&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00041.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00306&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00306.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00047&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00047.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00301&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00301.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00302&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00302.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00316&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00316.jpg
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/rutinasContenidoBocadillo.asp?camara=00054&mapa=PRINCIPAL
http://www.traficomadrid.munimadrid.es/Camaras/images/real/Camara00054.jpg
http://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-104.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-105.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-106.jpg
http://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-107.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-109.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-111.jpg
http://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-112.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-113.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-147.jpg
http://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-148.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-149.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-150.jpg
http://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-151.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-243.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-242.jpg
http://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-182.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-132.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-127.jpg
http://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-245.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-247.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-268.jpg
http://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-137.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-139.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-140.jpg
http://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-141.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-142.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-283.jpg
http://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-290.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-291.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-91.jpg
http://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-41.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-35.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-46.jpg
http://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-52.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-57.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-39.jpg
http://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-16.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-38.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-244.jpg
http://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-301.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-303.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-188.jpg
http://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-168.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-170.jpghttp://www.dgt.es/camaras/camara-2700001-321.jpg

[torke]

...

[nick_-_taylor]

They paid for it in that Spanish tax payers will have to help fund a large money pit project in some other odd country, thats how federal democracy works.

:scouserd:Yeah but Madrid and other areas still benefit from indirect EU funding. The reason is, that poorer areas of Spain are supported with grants from the EU, and traditionally this money would have come from the wealthier regions like Madrid and Barcelona. The ability of not having to help the poorer regions as much means that Madrid and other European cities and countries which lag behind and are beneficiaries from the EU are able to then re-direct to money on local projects. The Madrid Metro for instance would unlikely to be expanding as quickly as it is, if Madrid had to continue to support the poorer regions of Spain without EU aid.

[ChrisZwolle]

Madrid has huge suburbs, some of them have over 200.000 inhabitants, and are growing fast. Most motorways (autopistas, autovias) are very wide, here in NL, we can only dream of such a width for motorways.

A map i made. I made a much larger map, but i can't find it this time.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1529/madridzt2.png (http://imageshack.us)

[ChrisZwolle]

I heard, that there are plans for a M70? :runaway:

[torke]

Yeah but Madrid and other areas still benefit from indirect EU funding. The reason is, that poorer areas of Spain are supported with grants from the EU, and traditionally this money would have come from the wealthier regions like Madrid and Barcelona. The ability of not having to help the poorer regions as much means that Madrid and other European cities and countries which lag behind and are beneficiaries from the EU are able to then re-direct to money on local projects. The Madrid Metro for instance would unlikely to be expanding as quickly as it is, if Madrid had to continue to support the poorer regions of Spain without EU aid.

I dont know what you exactly mean when you are talking about poor regions in Spain because just 3 places now a days are supported by the EU (Galicia, Extremadura and Andalucia) and the poorest one region is Extremadura which is still rich, I mean, is the poorest yes, but not poor (in straight meaning). Greece, Portugal, Malta, Poland... are more poor for example, and yes, they 3 get some extra money (just for one more year by the way) to improve its development because their gip is under the EU media. So dont think that Madrid would grow less if these other 3 regions do not get money from EU because these Spanish places do not need as help as the others could not grow. Of course Europe has helped Spain, and spaniards know it but the country is having a great development by itself. Its economy grows up more than the EU economy and for example Euzkadi, La Rioja, Navarra, Balears, Catalunya, Madrid and Aragon are part of the 17 spanish regions and all of them have a bigger GIP than EU.

[torke]

I heard, that there are plans for a M70? :runaway:

M-60, not M-70 by moment.
Length: 170 Km.
Estimated budget: €1.5 billion ($1.92 billion).
http://img41.exs.cx/img41/5351/M-60.jpg

[picassoborseli]

Madrid has huge suburbs, some of them have over 200.000 inhabitants, and are growing fast. Most motorways (autopistas, autovias) are very wide, here in NL, we can only dream of such a width for motorways.

A map i made. I made a much larger map, but i can't find it this time.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1529/madridzt2.png (http://imageshack.us)

No none of the suburbs pass the 200.000 inhabitants, maybe Móstoles, but I thought they had about 198.000 inhabitants if i'm not wrong.

other cities above 150.000 inhabitants are:
- Alacalá de Henares
- Alcorcón
- Getafe
- Leganés
- Fuenlabrada

[torke]

I have not heard anything about a M-70 but is going to be an A-40, this freeway will be completely outside of Madrid (this is why is not M-) but it will be too a kind of ring, it will link the interestate freeways A-1 (at Venturada), A-2 (at Guadalajara), A-3 (at Tarancon), A-4 (at Aranjuez), A-42 (at Toledo), A-5 (at Maqueda) and A-50/AP-21(at Avila).
Perhaps this map can help a bit to figure it (maybe someone can help me posting something better about this):
The blue line is (more or less) where the freeway is planned
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4117/madrid2gm2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[torke]

Official population of Madrid Metropolitan Area Cities in 2005 (www.ine.es):
Madrid - 3.155.359
Móstoles - 204.463
Alcalá de Henares - 197.804
Fuenlabrada - 195.131
Leganés - 181.248
Alcorcón - 162.524
Getafe - 158.363
Torrejón de Ardoz - 109.483
Alcobendas - 103.149
Parla - 91.024
Coslada - 82.894
Pozuelo de Alarcón - 78.083
Las Rozas de Madrid - 71.937
San Sebastián de los Reyes - 65.767
Majadahonda - 61.788
Collado Villalba - 52.445
Rivas-Vaciamadrid - 49.696
Valdemoro - 44.136
Aranjuez - 43.926
Arganda del Rey - 41.411
San Fernando de Henares - 39.966
Colmenar Viejo - 39.579
Tres Cantos - 39.198
Pinto - 37.559
Boadilla del Monte - 35.588
Galapagar - 29.218
...

[ChrisZwolle]

Móstoles 216.463 (INE 2006)
Alcalá de Henares 204.000
Leganés 187.076

es.wikipedia.org

[torke]

Móstoles 216.463 (INE 2006)
Alcalá de Henares 204.000
Leganés 187.076

es.wikipedia.org

Sorry, perharps you are right, but there are no data for 2006 yet, (the last official data is from 1st of January of 2005), you will have it once the year finishes. So legally your Mostoles population is wrong, dont know about wikipedia data, but I trust official sites better: http://www.ine.es/inebase/cgi/um?M=%2Ft20%2Fe260&O=inebase&N=&L= or www.ine.es

[Crocodine]

^^ (Sorry about not to write down this in english) Torke, Alcalá de Henares tiene más de 200.000 habitantes según el padrón de 2006. Te lo dice un alcalaíno, pero puedes seguir creyendo a los anticuados (y oficialísimos, sí, todo lo que tú quieras) datos del INE. :)

@ Chris1491: Alcalá's number is closely right, as taken from City Council's data by me. I will also say that Alcalá has plans to expand further, until reaching 300.000 inhabitants toll in less than 6 years.

@ Picassoborseli: Yes, you're totally wrong. :D

[Effer]

WOW! :eek:

[The traveler]

Yeah but Madrid and other areas still benefit from indirect EU funding. The reason is, that poorer areas of Spain are supported with grants from the EU, and traditionally this money would have come from the wealthier regions like Madrid and Barcelona. The ability of not having to help the poorer regions as much means that Madrid and other European cities and countries which lag behind and are beneficiaries from the EU are able to then re-direct to money on local projects. The Madrid Metro for instance would unlikely to be expanding as quickly as it is, if Madrid had to continue to support the poorer regions of Spain without EU aid.

So what? What is your point? As far as I know those grants from EU are for helping new coming members reach higher income levels and to develop country's infrastructure. In fact, Spain is a very good example of this theory. By using EU grants Spanish Economy is one of the best performances in Western Europe and now would be a pivotal country in that area. What is wrong about those things? I don't see the all picture about this discussion of EU funding and Madrid infrastructure. On the other hand, we have many Western European countries which their performance is at least ridicule. That's maybe the problem.

[Bikkel]

UK regions receive grants as well. In NL it's Flevoland that is on the receiving end. It's a nonsensical reply from N_T.

The changes in Madrid (and Spain) remain impressive.

[Maxx☢Power]

"Mommy, why is Spain getting more money than me? I want to build motorways and high-speed trains too! :cry:"

"Oh, but you already have motorways, what about those?"

"But they're old and they don't have that sexy, new black asphalt, viaducts and shiny markings that Spain's have!"

Bunch of cry babies. This lack of solidarity, nationalistic tendencies and narrowmindedness has no place in 21st century Europe. Does it ever occur to those who complain that levelling things out will greatly benefit everyone, including the country they themselves live in and are so fond of?

Not referring to anyone in particular, just a general pattern of behaviour I have noticed.

[LtBk]

I think Madrid's motorway network would be more suitable for mega cities like Sao Paulo and Karachi.

[DonQui]

I think Madrid's motorway network would be more suitable for mega cities like Sao Paulo and Karachi.
Are Sao Paulo and Karachi in the center's of their respective country and hence the source and destination of most trips in the country?

;)

This is not only for 6 million people of the region of Madrid. These roads get used by many other Spaniards when traversing the country, all 45 million of them. This was afterall why the city was selected and constructed as the capital, as you can get to any part of the realm within 500-700 km.

[LtBk]

Are Sao Paulo and Karachi in the center's of their respective country and hence the source and destination of most trips in the country?

;)

This is not only for 6 million people of the region of Madrid. These roads get used by many other Spaniards when traversing the country, all 45 million of them. This was afterall why the city was selected and constructed as the capital, as you can get to any part of the realm within 500-700 km.

No, but those cities are the biggest financial and industrial centers in their native countries, so it might help them.

[DonQui]

No, but those cities are the biggest financial and industrial centers in their native countries, so it might help them.
Well, this is part of the reason why those cities do not have such a large network.

EVERY major national high trunk in Spain, there are six of them, converges onto Madrid. Obviously there are routes that do not do so, but they do not carry as much traffic as these radial routes.

[frozen]

All about funds it's a little bit tricky. Yes, we receive a great quantity of funds from UE but dont forget that our enrichment make to other UE take profit of our situation. I mean, if we are richer, we are able to buy more products to other european firms and we are "backing" this money indirectly. For exemple, Siemens (a german firm) sold us all the high-speed trains so we "back" a part of the money recieved buying this product.
Of course, Europe pay us a part of High speed train and without european funds we couldnt, thats true.And that why i say thank you, but i dont like when people just say "They pay absolutly all" because you are hidden why they do it. Dont forget that EU is in fact an economic union.
¿Do you think europe throw its money away? Not sure about it... Definetly, our enrichment it's good for the rest of european contries (we are a new trade)

Sorry for my english ;)

[swallowave]

nice city, but not so big . i just compare the airport runway's length to measure the downtown size, via the satellite map.

[picassoborseli]

@ swallowave:
The bigest runway on the Airport is around 4800 meters! the others almost 4000 meters

[nick_-_taylor]

I dont know what you exactly mean when you are talking about poor regions in Spain because just 3 places now a days are supported by the EU (Galicia, Extremadura and Andalucia) and the poorest one region is Extremadura which is still rich, I mean, is the poorest yes, but not poor (in straight meaning). Greece, Portugal, Malta, Poland... are more poor for example, and yes, they 3 get some extra money (just for one more year by the way) to improve its development because their gip is under the EU media. So dont think that Madrid would grow less if these other 3 regions do not get money from EU because these Spanish places do not need as help as the others could not grow. Of course Europe has helped Spain, and spaniards know it but the country is having a great development by itself. Its economy grows up more than the EU economy and for example Euzkadi, La Rioja, Navarra, Balears, Catalunya, Madrid and Aragon are part of the 17 spanish regions and all of them have a bigger GIP than EU.

Spain according to the latest stats by Eurostat (2006), is at 97.4 (whereby 100 is the EU25 GDP per inhabitant average).

7 Spanish regions: Pais Vasco, Navarra, La Rioja, Aragon, Madrid, Cataluna and the Illes Balears are above the EU 25 PPS per inhabitant.

While 12 Spanish regions: Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria, Castilla y Leon, Castilla-La Mancha, Extremadura, Valenciana, Andalucia, Murcia, Ceuta, Melilla, Canarias are below the EU 25 PPS per inhabitant.

Yet my point isn't about EU rankings of states....but the usage of EU funds. Granted the majority won't be used on these projects, but they have been and continue to be used elsewhere in Spain which provides an indirect investment by the EU. Simply put, its money that Madrid would have had to originally sourced to say Valenciana, but no longer has to because the EU gives the funding. This means that Madrid now has 'free' money that it can spent on projects to build new metro lines, etc..

My problem is that with Spain practically an average EU nation, that it ought to start giving way to the EU funding and become a bit more like say Germany or Britain, in other words become a net contributor.




So what? What is your point? As far as I know those grants from EU are for helping new coming members reach higher income levels and to develop country's infrastructure. In fact, Spain is a very good example of this theory. By using EU grants Spanish Economy is one of the best performances in Western Europe and now would be a pivotal country in that area. What is wrong about those things? I don't see the all picture about this discussion of EU funding and Madrid infrastructure. On the other hand, we have many Western European countries which their performance is at least ridicule. That's maybe the problem.Most economists would attribute the current Spanish economic growth to two factors:
- EU inward investment that massages the economy to create jobs and build infrastructure and sustain agricultural practices that are wasteful
- Immigration, what with Spain growing by 4mn over the last few years.

Yet despite those factors, the Spanish economy is growing at 3.7%, compare that to Britain at 2.8% which gets nothing like the inward EU investment or the large number of immigrants in relation to the current population that Spain gets. This is worrying because it highlights that Spain isn't innovating, its simply using the EU funds and external movements into the country to keep the economy going which is unsustainable in the long-term.

Fact is, now is the time that Poland, etc should be getting the EU's funds; instead we have Spain following the same path of France: protectionism to hold onto an antiquadated lifestyle and corporate structure that stiffles the EU, wastes money, damages the EU economy and causes us to loose out to the US and China.

[The traveler]

Most economists would attribute the current Spanish economic growth to two factors:
- EU inward investment that massages the economy to create jobs and build infrastructure and sustain agricultural practices that are wasteful
- Immigration, what with Spain growing by 4mn over the last few years.

Yet despite those factors, the Spanish economy is growing at 3.7%, compare that to Britain at 2.8% which gets nothing like the inward EU investment or the large number of immigrants in relation to the current population that Spain gets. This is worrying because it highlights that Spain isn't innovating, its simply using the EU funds and external movements into the country to keep the economy going which is unsustainable in the long-term.

Fact is, now is the time that Poland, etc should be getting the EU's funds; instead we have Spain following the same path of France: protectionism to hold onto an antiquadated lifestyle and corporate structure that stiffles the EU, wastes money, damages the EU economy and causes us to loose out to the US and China.

I am agree with you until the last paragraph, which most of that is just your opinion. On the other hand, I can support my theory about Spanish firms could use their profits from construction and other economic areas for booming a new economy based in alternative energies and some kind of high technology that can be competitive with the two giants, US and China.

Probably you should know that immigration is a great factor of economy growth, US is a good example of this. Furthermore, the foundations of US Economy are real state and construction industry, the same ingredients that we can find in today's Spanish Economy, so I think is nothing wrong about immigration as a economy factor.

As I said before no rational data supports your point, it is just an opinion probably based in some kind of educated guess. But if you want to convince me and the rest of the people in this forum you should provide us with more data and facts and not opinions, please. Also, I would like to know what and how UK is making progress in order to be such as competitive economy and contributes to the EU's wealth.

[willo]

oh my god most of these highways were made before Spain entered EU so stop talking about european funds. you can talk about them in highways in andalucia or extremadura but not in Madrid

[ChrisZwolle]

Since when were these major M-ringroads constructed? I thought they aren't older then 10 years...

[balasto]

Since when were these major M-ringroads constructed? I thought they aren't older then 10 years...

M-30 was built in 60's and 70's. I don't know when M-40 was started (80's?), but it was finished in the early 90's. M-45 was finished in 2002, I think. Some new streches of M-50 have been finished around 2003-2004, other in 2005.

[willo]

^^true. and al those you see with A1,A2,A3,A4,A5 and A6 were constructed in Franco's era

[nick_-_taylor]

I am agree with you until the last paragraph, which most of that is just your opinion. On the other hand, I can support my theory about Spanish firms could use their profits from construction and other economic areas for booming a new economy based in alternative energies and some kind of high technology that can be competitive with the two giants, US and China.

Probably you should know that immigration is a great factor of economy growth, US is a good example of this. Furthermore, the foundations of US Economy are real state and construction industry, the same ingredients that we can find in today's Spanish Economy, so I think is nothing wrong about immigration as a economy factor.

As I said before no rational data supports your point, it is just an opinion probably based in some kind of educated guess. But if you want to convince me and the rest of the people in this forum you should provide us with more data and facts and not opinions, please. Also, I would like to know what and how UK is making progress in order to be such as competitive economy and contributes to the EU's wealth.Of course, immigration is a factor in most economies growth...but there also has to be develoment of society to progress further (eg more graduates, etc...). France for instance is a country with a larger population and faster population growth than Britain, yet its economic growth lags behind Britain. Factor that in relation to population and France comes off poorly. Why? It is a protectionist society that looks short-term and denies most of its citizens the opportunity to strike out and make it (hence why quite a few come to Britain). These figures are easily available (eg growth figures from The Economist, population figures from the EU) and highlight the situation.

The fact is, immigration will someday come to a standstill or political processes will want limits...where is economic growth going to come from then? Quite simply Spain needs to look at itself, and move towards an image of growth that specialises in niche markets to propel itself through the next few years.

The reason the UK is progressing is that:
- Agricultural waste (refer to CAP and the efficiency levels of British farmers compared to the average European farmer) has been slashed
- Protectionist measures that keep industries 'safe' from foreign competition and possible takeovers at the cost of innovation have been cut
- The knowledge economy (of which again universities are Britains' strong point) has been embraced
- Move towards high-tech niche manufacturing, and financial and business services (of which Britain is the leader in Europe, with London larger than most countries for the later)

And the reason other countries in Europe don't go down this avenue? Because they are scared of loosing their national identity and think in the short-term. The Scandinavians have perfected what Britain is doing and the rest of Europe should follow....yet this is totally off the original points made by myself.

[valhar2000]

"Mommy, why is Spain getting more money than me? I want to build motorways and high-speed trains too! :cry:"

"Oh, but you already have motorways, what about those?"

"But they're old and they don't have that sexy, new black asphalt, viaducts and shiny markings that Spain's have!"

Bunch of cry babies. This lack of solidarity, nationalistic tendencies and narrowmindedness has no place in 21st century Europe. Does it ever occur to those who complain that levelling things out will greatly benefit everyone, including the country they themselves live in and are so fond of?

Not referring to anyone in particular, just a general pattern of behaviour I have noticed.

How right you are!

[Bsrt]

- Protectionist measures that keep industries 'safe' from foreign competition and possible takeovers at the cost of innovation have been cut

You say that French system is not competitve because of the protectionism, but then you tell us that the protectionism in British industries is making Britain grow fast, how you can explain me that?¿? if we live in a free market system, it is for all, and not for one investors and other consumers...
I remember when british media was so angry with Spanish companys buying british ones (Santander group bought Abbey, Telefónica bought O2, and Ferrovial bought BAA), but the way of looking it is not that one, look at germans, they invested in Spain, not as Britain that considered it as a third world country when we entered EU, now, german products are all around spain, and spanish companys are "invading" british market...
I don't have anything against britain, London is one of my favourite cities in the world, I think is a great country, but think things before talking...

About the transport system in Madrid, it is huge, but you have to consider that the density is huge, in half space of London or less there are only 1'5 million inhabitants less! Also is the result of a good planning from the start of the works, very effective, but sometimes, not so estetical... Luckyly, this stetical threats are being eliminated now with the refurbishment of M-30...

[The traveler]

Of course, immigration is a factor in most economies growth...but there also has to be develoment of society to progress further (eg more graduates, etc...). France for instance is a country with a larger population and faster population growth than Britain, yet its economic growth lags behind Britain. Factor that in relation to population and France comes off poorly. Why? It is a protectionist society that looks short-term and denies most of its citizens the opportunity to strike out and make it (hence why quite a few come to Britain). These figures are easily available (eg growth figures from The Economist, population figures from the EU) and highlight the situation.

The fact is, immigration will someday come to a standstill or political processes will want limits...where is economic growth going to come from then? Quite simply Spain needs to look at itself, and move towards an image of growth that specialises in niche markets to propel itself through the next few years.

The reason the UK is progressing is that:
- Agricultural waste (refer to CAP and the efficiency levels of British farmers compared to the average European farmer) has been slashed
- Protectionist measures that keep industries 'safe' from foreign competition and possible takeovers at the cost of innovation have been cut
- The knowledge economy (of which again universities are Britains' strong point) has been embraced
- Move towards high-tech niche manufacturing, and financial and business services (of which Britain is the leader in Europe, with London larger than most countries for the later)

And the reason other countries in Europe don't go down this avenue? Because they are scared of loosing their national identity and think in the short-term. The Scandinavians have perfected what Britain is doing and the rest of Europe should follow....yet this is totally off the original points made by myself.


Wow, it took me almost 15 days to give you an answer back, "shame on me" as President Bush should be say, I apologize for this delay and I cannot find any excuse for that. Moreover, when I have been writing in others threats rather than here. I am sorry for Madrilians as well.

As a matter of fact the two most importants reasons of Spanish Economy's growth are the join of Euro currency and the immigration. The first, keeps the interest rate low and lets consumers boost the economy. The second, increases Economy's size. But, as you said before it implies fit the new income's population into old ones.

Therefore, Spain is doing its homework because in the last two years have been naturalized more than 1 million immigrants. However, it has not been proved that this new population would contribute to Spanish's Economy as the old ones do. Moreover, questions such as would be second immigrant generation join Spanish's Universities, are immigrants going to create new business and would be a new immigrant Spanish entrepreneur generation. In fact, they do, looks Madrid's economic growth rates. But most of these are long term questions that only we can answer later.

The second point about Spanish's technology is a reality in today's economy. Spain rather than loose most of its industrial capacity,such as automobile, machine tool, manufacturing and construction supplies (an important area in last years) it is adding new industries such as, wind power, aeronautic, alternative energies and biofuels. It is amazing see new projects about biofuel plants just a 5 years old technology, or solar power plants. Spanish engineering firms are living a golden age under construction boom and new alternative energy wave.

Finally, the key about this new economy's model would be high technology, environmental entrepreneurship and knowledge economy, all of them based in high education institutions such as universities, research institutes, and private research; also, would be important entrepreneurs, ventura capitalism and financial angels to close the circle of growth. But I think Spain's society and economy have such as large momentum that everything is posible and adaptation would be affordable. For example, the government is changing legislation to create a company in 72 hours when was required four months of paperwork before. Another example is the large number of research parks that would be open in Spain in the following years.

[Peshu]

Maybe some people are offended by the fact that Spain is becoming one of Europes most important countries in both economics and influence . What some people like Nick Taylor don't seem to want to grasp is that Spain has for centuries been one of the worlds most important countries . It was only during the brief and shameful years of that little man named Franco that Spain fell into a hole that it should never have fallen into .
Unbelievable misconceptions about Spain in general still abound in the outside world . But things seem to be changing . I can't believe the headlines that Madrid is making in the Australian media of late . You even see many people on the streets with t-shirts that have Madrid or Ibiza written on it . Something that i have never seen before in Australia .
They even had a segment on Madrid nightlife dubbed '' the nightlife capital of Europe '' on one of the countries most popular shows . Getaway . Bravo for Spain and bravo for Madrid in particular . Over-rated cities such as London have been making their propagandistic mark for a long time now . It's about bloody time Madrid did the same .
So let's cut the bullshit about Madrid receiving so much funding from the E.U . Spains economy has been Europes economic miracle since that little man Franco died . ole .

[Engel]

Madrid has been developping many facilities and infrastructures sice 10 or 15 years. A huge road network and Underground train (Metro). The first Metro line was open in 1.919, but now a days, there are 14, and it is reaching 300 stations.
Only in the next few months, more than 90 Kms. of new lines or the extension of existing ones, are going to be opened. Aswell as 80 Kms of new regional highways in its Metropolitan area. The cost of theese new Metro lines has been about $ 5 billion. And, believe it or not, they have been constructed in less than 4 years, by our regional government.
The new air terminal in Barajas Intl. Airport, wich is already number 5 in Europe and 13 in the world, has started working last february. It is considered as one of the best existing, it has completed 4 runways also. The airport will be able to asume 70 million passangers. Actually it serves, 42,5 million. The cost of 2 new runways and the 2 brand new air terminals has been over $7,2 billion.
Inside the city a very impressive tunnel system (to ways- 4 lanes each), is now under construction by the City Hall. The reason is they want to do something similar to Boston,s famous underground highway. Madrid,s M-30 ring highway, spoils the river sides and polutes. So they are doing a new one as a tunnel. The surface left, will be converted into parks, and gardens, (600.000 sq. meters). The cost of it: More than $ 5 billion, and has been worked out in 4 years aswell.
If you add to this, an enormous lot of smaller works, new theaters, and all kinds of social equipements, for sports, culture, education etc, you will probably think that something serious is happening here.
We ourselves are sometimes surprised by the strength and deepness of all these changes. But i,m sure that Madrid, in a few years will achieve the 3rd place in Europe,s ranking, after London and Paris.
Sorry about my english, I don,t practice too much.

[frozen]

Maybe some people are offended by the fact that Spain is becoming one of Europes most important countries in both economics and influence . What some people like Nick Taylor don't seem to want to grasp is that Spain has for centuries been one of the worlds most important countries . It was only during the brief and shameful years of that little man named Franco that Spain fell into a hole that it should never have fallen into .
Unbelievable misconceptions about Spain in general still abound in the outside world . But things seem to be changing . I can't believe the headlines that Madrid is making in the Australian media of late . You even see many people on the streets with t-shirts that have Madrid or Ibiza written on it . Something that i have never seen before in Australia .
They even had a segment on Madrid nightlife dubbed '' the nightlife capital of Europe '' on one of the countries most popular shows . Getaway . Bravo for Spain and bravo for Madrid in particular . Over-rated cities such as London have been making their propagandistic mark for a long time now . It's about bloody time Madrid did the same .
So let's cut the bullshit about Madrid receiving so much funding from the E.U . Spains economy has been Europes economic miracle since that little man Franco died . ole .

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

I think the same, lots of people try to misvalue the spanish growth economy.And always with the same pretext "Funds, funds and funds". But other countries as Portugal or Greece had been received funds too (Portugal more than Spain per capita), but they didnt grow as Spain. We are doing good.

[juanpe_r]

don´t worry people....IT´S ALWAYS THE SAME!!!!!!! WHY SPAIN (ALWAYS POOR) IS NOW RICH?? we don´t know do anything....hehehhe

-MADRID is the third RICHEST city in europe.
-we wrouth more tha 4% every year.
-unemployment is about 6%.
-And we are 6 million inhabitants...so there is enough money for all that motorways.....and not only for that also for:

6 BILLION EURO AIRPORT.
90 KM NEW METRO. 4500 MILLION EURO
M30 RING ROAD TUNNELS (MORE THAN 50 KM OF GALLERIES)
7 INTERMODAL STATIONS.
8 HOSPITALS.
ETC.....ETC....

ALL THIS THINGS ARE PAID BY EU FOUNDS??????????' DON´T MAKE ME LAUGH

[juanpe_r]

UPPPSSS-.......ALL THIS NEW THING IN ONLY 4 YEARS, 2004-2007. not the airport