Do you love LA? Would you rather live somewhere else?

[Badgers77]

I'm sorry, this is my second topic. I really know I want to move out of Wisconsin after I graduate and am still mulling over where I'm going to move.
I've never been to LA before, although I have been to California several times, always leaving astounded. What are your favorite things about LA?

[soup or man]

Los Angeles: The city people love to hate and hate to love.

I can't see myself anywhere else. Though London is nice...

[Westsidelife]

I'm glad you created this thread asking what the locals love about LA. That way you get a better understanding of the culture and lifestyle and learn to appreciate it more. Here is a video that in my opinion shows off LA the way it truly is:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qNAjPMRvILQ&search=Los%20Angeles

[klamedia]

LA is great! The metro area hands down has to be the most happening metro area in the country. Pasadena, Long Beach, Santa Monica, West Hollywood, Catalina Island, Big Bear to name a few. Deserts, oceans, forests, mountains, farmland, urban, gritty urban, suburban, too scary to be real suburban all within an hour or a bit more from the city center downtown. It's really all too much to explain you've just got to experience it.

[LAWestsideStory]

I wouldn't say I love or Hate Los Angeles. I have been here for almost 3 years come September. I might move to New York City in the Spring next year.

[LANative]

I enjoy living here. I could live anywhere but I prefer living here.

[SpaceMan1]

Love it, no wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

[Westsidelife]

I definitely love LA and will definitely stay here. But I could also live in other cities such as SF, NYC, or Chicago though I prefer to be on the coast.

[SILVERLAKE]

Los Angeles: The city people love to hate and hate to love.

I can't see myself anywhere else. Though London is nice...

London is a nice alternative to LA. There are other places I would live, but no where I would rather live.

If it can't be found in LA, it doesn't exist. And if it doesn't exist, then this is the spot to invent it.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[godblessbotox]

its the shit! plus... i dont have to clean snow off anything

[solongfullerton]

I'm a born and raised southern californian, so my opinion is definitely biased, but I do in fact love LA. It really is a great city for living, working, and having a good time. It is true that the congestion keeps you from being able to go where ever you want, whenever you want, but if you find a neighborhood you like, theres not much reason to venture out that often. Personally, I'm a beach person, and you can find me there most weekends enjoying the sun and during the week riding my bike on the beach path. Except when I'm going to see family, I'm never farther than 5 miles from the beach.

I've visited much of the States and Europe and lived back in Virginia for a short while, and I prefer LA over anywhere I've been. I would like to spend some time in NYC, or perhaps a big city in Europe, just to be able to live without needing a car, but I digress, LA is my favorite city in the world.

[Miami as in Perfect]

I don't live there, but I go quite often, and I love it. Everything you could ever imagine could be found in LA. It's a pretty amazing place. And if you like to people watch, for heaven's sake, Los Angeles! all the way! haha - yepp. Move to LA.

[Badgers77]

I have NO FRIENDS in LA though. How the hell would I make friends?

[godblessbotox]

...i have no friends ither... :cry:

but i work all day everyday

[saiholmes]

I love LA so much.

[Phanlax]

Aside from a lot of noise from the streets around here and some of my idiot neighbors, LA is a nice place to live, with everything I need very close by from public transportation to tree shops to big box retailers to auto repair shops with very strange hours.

I'd still like a nice house in Southern Alaska though.

[archd1]

Love LA!!! but it took me a few years to really acclimatize myself with the city coming from a more "traditional" city back east. This is a city that will challenge you, turn you upside down, intimidate you and destroy, if you will, all your previous beliefs and conventions that you bring with you. The city's physical layout itself is like no other---very confusing at first, there is apparently no beginning or end, no boundaries, a mecca of disorientation, it will fry your brain, regurgitate your soul, spit it out and if your lucky enough to survive, you come out the victor, the tamer of the beast! It is a place of conflict and contradiction--both peaceful and chaotic, constriciting and free, urban grit with slickness, you're so close to nature but live in a concrete jungle, the city of the very rich and the very poor...It's all these taken as a whole that makes LA a modern utopia, quite inspirational.

I love LA because this is where I found success, made really great friends and had the sense that I belong. It won't be easy in a city this big and spread-out but man, it's not impossible!

[klamedia]

This is a city that will challenge you, turn you upside down, intimidate you and destroy, if you will, all your previous beliefs and conventions that you bring with you. The city's physical layout itself is like no other---very confusing at first, there is apparently no beginning or end, no boundaries, a mecca of disorientation, it will fry your brain, regurgitate your soul, spit it out and if your lucky enough to survive, you come out the victor, the tamer of the beast! It is a place of conflict and contradiction--both peaceful and chaotic, constriciting and free, urban grit with slickness, you're so close to nature but live in a concrete jungle, the city of the very rich and the very poor...It's all these taken as a whole that makes LA a modern utopia, quite inspirational.

!

Gee arch, how eloquently put. It's everything you just said. It makes mad alot of times but I'm helplessly in love with the place. Ahhh.....the turmoil.

[Miami as in Perfect]

You say you have no friends - but in LA, if you can talk to anybody for a second, you can find a few friends no matter who you are. I mean, where else could you find Mickey Avalon and . . . (fancy CEO) all living in the same place. A person for everybody in LA. Very diverse. And who needs friends? I have lived in Florida all of my life and I don't have that that many real friends. And before you got the friends you had now, they weren't your friends, now were they.

I know, I am rambling. I need sleep. Laterrr. Oh yeah, move to LA.

[FROM LOS ANGELES]

Sometimes I feel like going east, but nah. LA is just one of a kind city you can't get away from. I truly luv LA.

[archd1]

Gee arch, how eloquently put. It's everything you just said. It makes mad alot of times but I'm helplessly in love with the place. Ahhh.....the turmoil.
Thanks! It's the love/hate/love thing that keeps us on our toes and that's how this "hag of a bitch" city of ours make me feel.

[klamedia]

Umhmm....She just don't want to do right. The bitch!

[Downtownlaguy]

I have NO FRIENDS in LA though. How the hell would I make friends?

LA is very friendly despite what you see in the movies. It all depends what scene you get into. One thing that you can count on is that if you can imagine it, there is an entire scene devoted to it in the city somewhere. The best way to make friends is to find a group that likes to do what you do what you do. The easiest ways to find interest groups is on Myspace or criagslist, but I still prefer the old fashioned way... meeting people in real life of the street or wherever. I moved to LA 2 years ago and knew two people, now I know more people than I ever have in my life.

LA is my favorite city out of all the places I've lived because there is more to do and more going on in one week than you could ever do in a lifetime. And I try to do it all.

[alex3000]

I'd rather live in San Francisco... Yup yup. Love the city and the weather.

[klamedia]

And I'd rather live in Mumbai.

[Caliguy2005]

Los Angeles is a Great Place to Live in,Work in and Visit :-)

The Greater L.A Area is Very Diverse in People,Neighborhoods,Entertainment,Shopping,Dining,Landscapes and Climate,so i'm sure you'll find a part of L.A that you'll love...

L.A is a Fun City and I always enjoy my time when i'm there :-)

I Love L.A !

[yoyoniner]

London is a nice alternative to LA.

How would you know you've never even BEEN to London let alone lived there!

The lifestyles in either city are so different from each other that I gaurantee if you moved to London your world would be turned upside down Silverlake. I can't think of anything these two cities even have in common!

Silverlake listen up because I am going to be real with you and if you are OPEN MINDED you will learn something: From the weather, to the lifestyle, to the transit and the way people get from place to place, to what's fashionable, to the attitudes of the people and what people in each city emphasize as important in life, to the housing situation, to the attitudes about smoking and drinking, to the sports people are into, to the cars people drive, to the way the city just plain and simply LOOKS (can you think of two cities more architecturally DIFFERENT in this world?), to the music that is popular, to the slang that you wouldn't even understand for a good month after having moved there, to the total and complete apathy for taking part in outdoor activities in London which is stark contrast to LA, to the total lack of beaches, mountains, etc., all the way down to the food (Silverlake there are literally 3 mexican restaurants in all of metro London)... I mean I can't think of two cities more different.

It is so obvious you have never even been to London, so please stop talking like you have because we all know you have not.

[godblessbotox]

shutup... go have a bitch in Open letter tread and keep our other threads clean.

this was all going mighty well untill you decided that it needs to be another argue with silverlake thread

[Joey313]

I would not want or live somewere else. L.A has everything form beches to weather the city, nightlife is just amazing

[archd1]

I'd rather live in San Francisco... Yup yup. Love the city and the weather.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/avatars/FlagChina.gif:goodbye: :goodbye: :goodbye: :goodbye:
.....THEN HOLD ON TO THAT FLAG AND LET THE WIND BLOW YOU AWAY UP NORTH!!!BYE-BYE!!!

[The Baz]

I would like to live in Boca Raton, FL. It is completely different from LA (more like Orange County). I visited a few months ago and West Palm Beach Co. was absolutely beautiful and stunning. I thought I've seen granduer OC style/Malibu style/La style but nothing compared to those beachside properties and shopping in Boca. GORGEOUS. :cheer: Not as crowded as the OC either. Beautiful beaches too. Weather is good, but the major downside is hurricanes and frequent summer rain/hummidity suck.

[klamedia]

shutup... go have a bitch in Open letter tread and keep our other threads clean.

this was all going mighty well untill you decided that it needs to be another argue with silverlake thread

Oy yes! God bless "botox"! Hey "arch" can you/will you start a thread educating, I guess me, on the four ecological significancees about LA?

[alex3000]

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/avatars/FlagChina.gif:goodbye: :goodbye: :goodbye: :goodbye:
.....THEN HOLD ON TO THAT FLAG AND LET THE WIND BLOW YOU AWAY UP NORTH!!!BYE-BYE!!!

Uhhh... 0_o

[archd1]

Oy yes! God bless "botox"! Hey "arch" can you/will you start a thread educating, I guess me, on the four ecological significancees about LA?
Yes, thanks for the interest....it's based on a book by a well-known British writer/urbanist, Reyner Banham, "Los Angeles: The Architetcure of Four Ecologies" originally published in 1971. I read it a few years ago and was recently featured in a journal. So, I figured this is a good signature for the LA forum....

In summary, the author analyzes LA based on these four "ecologies" as he calls them: SURFURBIA (the beach cities), FOOTHILLS (the privileged enclaves of Bel-Air, Beverly Hills, etc. I guess you can also include Pasadena and the hillside communities around that area), THE PLAINS (central flatflands, i.e. the Valleys), AUTOPIA (the freeways and car culture). He explains how these "ecologies" taken as a whole and interacting with one another, creates a "context", a real sense of place uniquely LA's. When outside observers mock LA, he says, the fault lies with them and not the city, beacuse they pretty much ignored the "context" by which LA defines itself.

It's a great read, especially coming from a Brit who lives in the more "traditional", history-laden city of London. Banham is so fascinated by LA and wrote about a new kind of urban history unlike any other. He simplified (or at least tried to) the way people should perceive LA. He changed the way native Angelenos, new residents and visitors alike understood LA....

[godblessbotox]

In summary, the author analyzes LA based on these four "ecologies" as he calls them: SURFURBIA (the beach cities), FOOTHILLS (the privileged enclaves of Bel-Air, Beverly Hills, etc. I guess you can also include Pasadena and the hillside communities around that area), THE PLAINS (central flatflands, i.e. the Valleys), AUTOPIA (the freeways and car culture). He explains how these "ecologies" taken as a whole, creates a "context", a real sense of place uniquely LA's. When outside observers mock LA, he says, the fault lies with them and not the city, beacuse they pretty much ignored the "context" by which LA defines itself.



sounds like it should be interesting

[klamedia]

I'll check to see if it's available on Half.com.

[archd1]

GBB (godblessbotox), KLM (Klamedia), the book is avialbale at the LA Central Library..(lapl.org)..I've reseved a copy for myself and I'll pick it up sometime early next week...it would be interesting to compare the author's observations about LA in 1971 and how the city, as we know it, has become today.

[archd1]

Q & A with 2 "Angelenos"....by the NYC Based 92Y Blog:

http://blog.92y.org/images/collage/Sydney_Pollack_UNE7100.jpg


92YQ: Sydney Pollack
Academy Award-winning film director, producer and actor Sydney Pollack (Out of Africa, Tootsie, They Shoot Horses, Don’t They? and more recently The Interpreter with Nicole Kidman and Sean Penn) will be speaking at Makor after a screening of his first documentary Sketches of Frank Gehry. In the 1950s he studied and taught acting at the Neighborhood Playhouse before embarking on a remarkable career. He has spent much time in New York (living and working) but has called Southern California home for the last 30 years.

We decided to use the opportunity of his appearance to launch a regular Q&A feature on this blog called 92YQ. Not an intelligence test; rather, we like to think it’s best described as a geographical twist on the Proust Questionnaire. It’s adapted from 92Y Blog co-editor Andrew Krucoff’s “Young Manhattanite Interview,” which once ran regularly on Gothamist. We’ll be featuring many of our guests, on both coasts and points between, from the upcoming season. Stay tuned.

Sydney Pollack: Film director, producer and actor

Since no one actually lives “in” L.A. , how would you describe your geographical relationship with the area? (Note: --"in" LA is a lame reference to---Nobody is actually "from" New York," but it doesn't translate very well) A great place to return to, to relax after the energy and activity of an ‘outdoor’ city like NY.

What’s your best (or worst) freeway story?
The best is how you can get five times the length of Manhattan in five or six minutes when there’s no traffic, the worst is trying to get anywhere in rush hour.

What era, day or event in L.A.’s history would you like to re-live?
The big studio era of the ‘40s and ‘50s. Sure looks like fun.

What’s your L.A. motto?
Don’t go to any event, party, lunch or dinner you aren’t really passionate to go to.

Describe that low, low moment when you thought you just might have to leave L.A. for good. I leave so often I don’t ever have to think about it.

What was your best dining experience in L.A. ?
The very first days of the very first Spago.

With a nod to Randy ******, how much do you really love L.A. ?
As a permanent place - OK, but as a place to come back to - a lot. It’s getting better and better.

Of all the movies made about or highly associated with L.A. , what role would you have liked to be cast in? William Holden in Sunset Blvd. Or maybe Kirk Douglas in The Bad and the Beautiful.

What happened the last time you went to NYC?
I had a great time, ate well and worked well - which is usually the case.

If you could change one thing about L.A., what would it be?
Traffic.

The End of The World is finally happening. What are you going to do with your last 24 hours in L.A. ? Cook a meal and drink some sensational wine.


http://blog.92y.org/images/collage/arianna_huffington.jpg

92YQ: Arianna Huffington
Arianna Huffington is the author of ten books, a nationally syndicated columnist, and the founder of one of the biggest news sources on the Internet, The Huffington Post. She will be dispensing advice for women with Nora Ephron tomorrow at the Y’s Kaufmann Concert Hall. There are still a few tickets left. You can find more lectures and conversations at our East Side and West Side locations.

Arianna Huffington - Columnist and Mother of Two

Since no one actually lives “in” L.A., how would you describe your geographical relationship with the area? We have an open marriage. The love is there, and I’ll always come back to her, but sometimes I just need to be with other cities to spice things up.

What’s your best (or worst) freeway story?
It’s always a good story when I get where I’m going alive and on time.

What era, day or event in L.A.’s history would you like to re-live?
June 4, 1968, so I could make sure that Bobby Kennedy stayed out of the Embassy Ballroom, of the Ambassador Hotel—and away from Sirhan’s bullet.

What’s your L.A. motto?
“I’ll be there in 20 minutes.” And one of these days, I plan on living up to it.

Who do you consider to be the greatest Los Angeleno of all-time?
Upton Sinclair, who moved to LA and ran for governor (what kind of crazy writer does that?), for showing the power of the pen to change governments.

With a nod to Randy ******, how much do you really love L.A.?
A lot. Especially when I’m on a hike in the hills, walking down the beach, or sitting around my dining room table talking politics and trading laughs with a great group of LA friends.

Of all the movies made about or highly associated with L.A., what role would you have liked to be cast in? Debbie Reynolds in “Singin’ in the Rain.” Dancing with Gene Kelly? Sign me up (though I’d have to wear flats).

What happened the last time you went to NYC?
I had a fabulous book party thrown for me by Kathy and Tom Freston, went toe-to-toe with Stephen Colbert, put in some time at the Huffington Post’s New York office, and prepared to have a conversation at the 92nd Street Y with Nora Ephron.

Other than traffic, if you could change one thing about L.A., what would it be? The Balkanization of too many of our neighborhoods. LA could be the great melting pot, but sometimes it resembles a frozen TV dinner, with each cultural and economic group cordoned off from the other. I also miss having a central focal point, like Times Square or Central Park.

The End of The World is finally happening. What are you going to do with your last 24 hours in L.A.? Meditate, do yoga, enjoy a Greek feast with my daughters, write a farewell blog… and prepare for the next go ‘round.

[godblessbotox]

meditate and do yoga? thats lame.

[archd1]

Have you ever done one or the other? I meditate and it's very helpful in relieving stress! Give the woman a break after what she's been through.......

[svs]

I was born and raised in Chicago which in many ways is a model city obviously very well loved by its inhabitants which still includes my mother and many of my aunts and cousins. I came out to LA about 1970 for some training never thinking I would stay, but I'm still out here in Santa Monica, more than thirty five years later. Needless to say, I love LA and there is no place else on earth (and I have traveled quite a bit) where I would rather live.

LA may not have the highest buildings in the world but no where else can you find this amalgam of beach, weather, culture, and amusement. Few cities intersect the beach, the mountains, the desert, and the plains. Add major UNiversities like UCLA, USC, and CAl Tech, mix in the second greatest collection of theme parks in the world, access to the ocean, and the most polyglot population in the country. You can't beat it. LA is the bastard offspring of New York, Orlando, Miami, Mexico City, and Hong Kong. There is nothing you can't find in LA county if you know where to look.

LA doesn't give up its secrets easily; I am still finding new surprises, but by all means come on out. Don't believe what they tell you about people in LA not being friendly; they are the same people who started out in Chicago and Pittsburgh. If you have friends in your home town, you will make plenty of friends out here; if you don't have friends in your home town, the problem is probably you.

Come on out and watch the sun go down over the PAcific, take the hydrofoil out to Catalina, watch the sea lions, pelicans, and dolphins from the shore, take in a concert at Disney hall, the Greek theater, the Hollywood bowl; take in theatrical productions at more than 100 small theaters, rent a horse in the Hollywood Hills and ride over the Santa Monica Mountains for tacos in Burbank learn to surf, see a grunion run; rock climb in the desert, golf in Palm Springs; mountain bike ride in the Santa Monica Mountains; drive through the giant doughnut; see Watts towers, rent a Mariachi band for the evening; watch USC go for another BCS bowl; see a night game at Dodger stadium, or a basketball game at Staples; visit more than 300 museums; shop in the garment district or on Rodeo Drive; visit the Improv or the Groundlings; choose from hundreds (literally) of clubs for music of all kinds.

You never have to shovel another load of snow if you don't want to; try planting citrus trees and passion fruit, guavas, and roses instead. Wear shorts in the middle of January and ride your bike to the beach. Just remember to tell your relatives out east, that you really hate it here. They can't handle the truth.

[godblessbotox]

LA is the bastard offspring of New York, Orlando, Miami, Mexico City, and Hong Kong.


fucking beautiful

[klamedia]

What a beautiful mess she is......

[Elsongs]

Native here. Never lived anywhere else, plan to live my life here, though I'm open to living elsewhere temporarily just for perspective (I went to college locally).

SF and NY are great places to visit, but I'd never want to live there. Chicago is nice too but unlike SF and NY, I only know a few people out there.

The only other US city I'd want to live in *was* New Orleans. But y'all know what happened there. I'd take an 8.0 over a Category 5 ANY DAY!

[Fern~Fern*]

I like Nebraska!

[floridian-will]

I dont understand how LA can be better than Miami. Explain what it is that so entertaining. Ill explain to you what I love about Miami. You are located just south of beautiful West Palm Beach, and Fort LAuderdale. You have the beautiful tropical architechture. And amazing tropical LAID BACK atmosphere. The city itself is so entertaining in beauty, but thats just the begining. You have beautiful Biscayne Bay. Also there is Miami Beach, much nicer than any Cali beach. You got Key Biscayne to explore with an unending amount of water activities including snorkiling on the only reeds in america, thats right Florida has reefs, Cali dont, diving, fishing, boating, in the nicest waters in america. Then you have the Keys just to the south. Ah the Keys, my favorite place in the world, the beauty of the water so still so blue. The warmth of the water, the things you can do. And if for some reason you dont feel like goin to the Keys, you can visit the worlds largest most beautiful themepark on the weekend. Disney WORLD, now I know cali got Disney first, but we got it best. Its hard to explain everything about the Miami area, but you gotta love it. So what is it about LA that turns yall on?

[phattonez]

Miami has some pretty ugly parts outside of downtown. Can you explain the extremely high crime rate? If you're gonna try to say that Miami is better than Los Angeles, can you at least not troll the Los Angeles forum. You're only gonna get bashed.

[saiholmes]

At least, Miami is cheaper.

2nd quarter 2006 home Median Prices
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana CA 576.3
Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Miami Beach FL 376.2
http://money.cnn.com/real_estate/index.html

[mongozx]

I dont understand how LA can be better than Miami.


Then there are a lot of things you just don't understand.

[floridian-will]

I wasnt saying Miami is better. I was just saying why I like Miami and hoping you could tell me why you like LA. Ive seen some nice pics of LA, its a different city than Miami. But Miami crime rate isnt as high as alota other cities in the US. And I dont recall ever hearing of LA as being rated very safe. All in all I gave you my input on why I like Miami, anyone who is a true fan of a place takes it for its ups and downs, so if your gonna flame me then give a good argument, but thats not what I was looking for so tell me why you like LA or just ignore what I wrote, I dont care, but dont make a drama of it.

[Elsongs]

And if for some reason you dont feel like goin to the Keys, you can visit the worlds largest most beautiful themepark on the weekend. Disney WORLD, now I know cali got Disney first, but we got it best. Its hard to explain everything about the Miami area, but you gotta love it. So what is it about LA that turns yall on?

LOL, DisneyWorld isn't part of the Miami area at all, it's Orlando, which is several hours north. That's just as bad as SF claiming Disneyland.

Besides, Miami is just a bunch of drug dealers and old fogeys. :lol:

[Elsongs]

And I dont recall ever hearing of LA as being rated very safe.

Los Angeles has been rated recently as the #3 safest large city in America (1,000,000+ people). The ABC show Nightline interviewed LAPD chief William Bratton a few weeks ago because of that.

[klamedia]

Both places are great. Now let's all go to bed.

[floridian-will]

I used the Disney World example to show the great many things you can do if you live near or in Miami. Sure its a long drive but not that long concidering that for a few hour drive you are adding to the wonderful experiance of living in Miami. Oh big deal LA got rated one of the safest cities WITH ONE MILLION PEOPLE OR MORE, that doesnt give me much confidence, there is also some of the worst traffic in the country in LA. You cant say the name LA without even admiting to its crime, it has crime, all cities that size do, maybe its the safest of its size, but guess what, its oversized. Miami is alot smaller than LA. And man, why do you want to debate, you could simply explain why you like LA like I asked but instead you choose to tell me what you hate about Miami, I didnt ever say LA sucks, I just said I like Miami better and came here looking for a reason why some people think LA is so great. So if anyone has anything that isnt a flame to say that'd be great, if not fine, be that :nuts:

[The anti-cheesehead]

At least, Miami is cheaper.

2nd quarter 2006 home Median Prices
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana CA 576.3
Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Miami Beach FL 376.2
http://money.cnn.com/real_estate/index.html

MARKET RULES.

People won't pay LA prices to live in Miami, that's why it's cheaper. Duh. Obviously, cheaper does not equal better.

As far as crime, LA may be one of the safest over 1,000,000, but that is including the whole SFV and not including places like Carson, Compton, Long Beach.

[floridian-will]

Since when was Miami cheaper? Good luck finding a SMALL home for under 250. Most houses where I am are goin for 500 and small codos are goin for 300. The large codos are 1mil+ it is not cheap at all to live in Miami make no mistake.

[The anti-cheesehead]

Since when was Miami cheaper?

Since someone posted the 2nd quarter 2006 home Median Prices for both places.

I have to laugh when people compare someplace to LA and show that it's cheaper. Most places are cheaper than LA. LA is expensive for a reason, because too many people want to live there, and people want to live there because it's awesome. Supply and demand, plain and simple.

I don't know how Miami got into this thread, but someone asked how anyone could like LA better than Miami. I don't live in either place, and I like LA much better than Miami. LA has better weather and mountains. If Miami can claim Disney World (for little kids), LA can claim Las Vegas (for adults). :)

LA >>>>>>> Miami

[ChrisLA]

Well the things I like about Los Angeles.

Downtown LA, the historic district, The beauty of Olvera Street, the good food. Little Toyko, I love Union Station. I enjoy just walking around the station and seeing all of activity going on (especially during rush hour. I also like the crowds and the festive feel of the Fashion District.

Hollywood is interesting, and improving. I love the busy streets and seeing all of the different people who passes by walking or in the cars. Melrose Avenue, I like strolling (not much of a shopper) and looking seeing all of the funky shop and the colorful people. Visiting Sunset Blvd (The Strip) at night when all of the people are out for the night life. Going to the Music Center for live theater, Disney Hall for a classical concert. Taking in the views of the city from the Bona Vista Lounge (34th Floor) while having a drink and the floor turns to see all sides of the city. Taking in a summer concert at like the Playboy Jazz Festival at the Hollywood Bowl (nothing like it). Visiting the many diverse neighborhoods we have. Eating all types of different foods in these diverse areas. Going to the mountains and seeing the snow or just relaxing and enjoying the forest.

I also like the beaches of LA, I prefer the cooler tempertures. When there is a hot day the residents know they can escape to the beaches for some relief, and you don't even need to get in the water.

There is the south bay cities of Manhattan Beach, Redondo Beach, Hermosa Beach. I like to just walk around and take in the culture, stroll on the piers, or just go down and enjoy a good meal, and some coffee.

Visit the Farmers Market, and pig out on anything your stomach desire, plus people watch.

I love the fact that LA is so big, you have so many things happeing around the city that one can never be bored or not find something you don't like to do. If you want to live just the city life, we have it. If you're an outdoors type, its here too. Granted many cities offer such things, but LA has an over abundance of it. I also like the fact that I can open my window and enjoy the fresh air. Not many cities you can do this because its either too cold, or too HOT.

I love visiting the many museums we have from the Getty, Norton Simon, LACMA, to the Long Beach Museum of Art, SouthWest, to the Latin American.
I love being able to listen to chamber music for free on Sunday evenings at the LACMA as its being broadcast live on the radio. I love being able to listen to classical for free at the Colburn School of Music in downtown LA.


Venice Beach is cool too, I don't visit often as I leave it to the tourist. Yet I do enjoy going there when friends come to town. Its quite an entertaining area. Santa Monica, to Beverly Hills I love to dine, listen to street musicians, and seeing al of the different people.

Little Etiopia for the beautiful women (some of the most beautiful in the world)

Taking the subway, riding the Blue Line to downtown LA from downtown Long Beach. Also I enjoy the scenic ride along the Gold Line to Pasadena from downtown LA.

Oh did I mentioned the weather, its great. No humidity, and quite mild by US standards.

The LA Lakers

I could go on and on, and on, but I too tired from working last night and I need sleep. There is so much to see, do and love about LA that it would take a 1000 page book to include all there is to like about this great city.

One other thing, I love the fact that we have the best Asian food outside of Asia.

Peace

[floridian-will]

Well I cant say I think LA is better than Miami. Maybe as good to some but Miami is in a league of its own. In fact there is prolly just about as much if not more to do in Miami. Its really a tropical prardise of a city. Probably the only city in the lower fourty-eight that can claim to be a tropical paradise. The buildings in Miami are amazingly beautiful. THe city is right on the water, beautiful Biscayne Bay, and it shares with the rest of south florida the only place in the US with live coral reef. I guess its all what your into. If your into relaxed days of watching clear, paradise blue, warm waters. Tropical lifsyle and tropical atmosphere. Having the unbeatable Keys just below you, having the nicest beaches in the US just a short walk to your east. Having the everglades just to your west. The best waters for boating, fishing, snorkling, and diving, then man Miami is the place for you. And there are great things about LA too. Guess they are just different, but I wouldnt say one is better than the other, not anymore at least. Im glad someone finnaly gave a good answer as to why they like LA so much. But its a much different city than Miami so for now ill leave that question alone. But I still would never wanna live any where but South Florida

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Well I cant say I think LA is better than Miami. Maybe as good to some but Miami is in a league of its own. In fact there is prolly just about as much if not more to do in Miami. Its really a tropical prardise of a city. Probably the only city in the lower fourty-eight that can claim to be a tropical paradise. The buildings in Miami are amazingly beautiful. THe city is right on the water, beautiful Biscayne Bay, and it shares with the rest of south florida the only place in the US with live coral reef. I guess its all what your into. If your into relaxed days of watching clear, paradise blue, warm waters. Tropical lifsyle and tropical atmosphere. Having the unbeatable Keys just below you, having the nicest beaches in the US just a short walk to your east. Having the everglades just to your west. The best waters for boating, fishing, snorkling, and diving, then man Miami is the place for you. And there are great things about LA too. Guess they are just different, but I wouldnt say one is better than the other, not anymore at least. Im glad someone finnaly gave a good answer as to why they like LA so much. But its a much different city than Miami so for now ill leave that question alone. But I still would never wanna live any where but South Florida

i dont want to argue, but there is much more to do in LA.

anyways, another reason i love LA.

you can snowboard on 10,000 foot mountians and surf in 75 degree weather in the same day. no where else on earth can claim that.

Also, the best food anywhere in the world, and the most diverse area on earth, great looking women, the Lakers/Dodgers/Kings/USC/UCLA, the beach cities, the FOOD, the energy, the vibe, you can live in a rural area or in teh middle of a dense ass place within 8 miles of each other, the fact that we have mountain lions and bears within city limits, we have deserts, valleys, beach's , mountains, hills, forests, everything.. it will take me hours to type everything out.

[floridian-will]

Wow it does sound nice there. But I really like tropical areas. I rate beaches on how clear and blue the water is. And florida beaches are the best in the nations aside from Hawii for that. Really there is a much richer tropical life in Florida, everything is based around that, I cant live without it. Though LA sounds awsome, maybe ill visit sometime and see for myself what all the hype is about.

[The anti-cheesehead]

Wow it does sound nice there. But I really like tropical areas. I rate beaches on how clear and blue the water is. And florida beaches are the best in the nations aside from Hawii for that. Really there is a much richer tropical life in Florida, everything is based around that, I cant live without it. Though LA sounds awsome, maybe ill visit sometime and see for myself what all the hype is about.

I'm sorry, but who cares how you rate beaches? What does Miami have to do with this thread?

"Do you love LA? Would you rather live somewhere else?"

Am I the only person who thinks it's strange that someone who has never been to Los Angeles is talking about Miami in the Los Angeles forum in a thread about Los Angeles?

[godblessbotox]

no... this is ssc, not an hour goes by when that is not said in one of the forums

[floridian-will]

Fine. No I dont love LA, yes I would live somewhere else. Now that I am legitamit for this thread, Miami is the place that id rather live. Gosh it was a simple question that already got answered so why are you gonna carry it on to saying how stupid you think it is that someone is posting about Miami in an LA thread. People compare those two cities all the time, get over it.

[The anti-cheesehead]

Fine. No I dont love LA, yes I would live somewhere else. Now that I am legitamit for this thread, Miami is the place that id rather live.

And you know this despite never stepping foot in LA?

Gosh it was a simple question that already got answered

There is no "answer" to the question, it depends on who you ask, and since you've never been to LA, you're not in a position to give an answer. You're trying answer a question that nobody asked.

[Elsongs]

People compare those two cities all the time, get over it.

You're the first person I've *ever* heard compare Los Angeles to Miami. Most people compare Los Angeles to NY (i.e. for best city in the USA) or SF (for best in California). I don't see what Los Angeles and Miami have in common, except for Shaq.

If you've rather live in Miami than Los Angeles, no problem! I'm happy for you. It's not like we need you here. We'd rather have people who can spell the word "legitimate." :) If you want to be a Miami booster, good for you! But loving Miami doesn't require you hate Los Angeles.

[Elsongs]

Am I the only person who thinks it's strange that someone who has never been to Los Angeles is talking about Miami in the Los Angeles forum in a thread about Los Angeles?

Let's have an LA vs Almaty, Kazakhstan thread! Where's Borat?

[Elsongs]

Wow it does sound nice there. But I really like tropical areas. I rate beaches on how clear and blue the water is. And florida beaches are the best in the nations aside from Hawii for that. Really there is a much richer tropical life in Florida, everything is based around that, I cant live without it. Though LA sounds awsome, maybe ill visit sometime and see for myself what all the hype is about.

Hate to break it to you, but Los Angeles, or anywhere in California for that matter, is not in a tropical climate.

[Westsidelife]

I like that LA has the moutains, the beaches, and the desert all in one region and one could access all of those in one day. No other US global city can offer the same thing.

I like the weather.

LOVE its location in Southern California and how it's open to the entire world on the Pacific Ocean (Asia, Australia, Hawaii, etc.)

LOVE the fact that it's in California.

Love the multi-cultured aspect and how you have the filthy rich and the dirt poor living in the same city.

Love how each community is its own world. That's what's great about LA. It's multi-faceted.

Love the laid-back attitude here but it's not too too laid-back like Hawaii.

I like the beach-culture here.

Love how Las Vegas, San Diego, OC, and Santa Barbara are in close proximity.

[floridian-will]

Well since your in a debating mood ill play along. How many of you have lived in the Miami area for more than a short vacation. How many of you can really tell which city is better. And if it really is cheaper to live here, than tell me the prices out in Cali, cause they are through the roof here. I dont need to step foot in a place to know that I dont want to live there. Now dont get to upset by this but Im gonna use movie's for reference. In every movie that ive seen that shows LA it all looks like a concrete forest, everything looks bland, now if the people who produce movies in that very city cant even spruce it up a little than jiminy Christmas they suck. Now the movies ive seen of Miami one can clearly see the colorful skyline, the beautiful beach, Biscayne Bay, Key Biscayne, all the suburbs up and down the coast line, there is more to Miami then just Downtown Miami, theres alot to it. I never said one was beter than the other, I am just giving you my blunt oppinion from my blunt perspective. It isnt a great perspective but I came here to get a better perspective and now I got you flaming me, so much for Cali hospitality. Really the question I asked was for you to explain what entices people so about LA, that is not an unanswerable question. And someone DID answer it cause they said what they love about LA, so they gave me a better perspective. All in all this wasnt meant to cause so much debate.

[floridian-will]

Never said I hate LA bro. Dont know where you got that from. And I never said LA was tropical, I mearly said I would rather live in Miami cause MIAMI is tropical, thats why I like Miami better. Does that clear it up to you?

[Westsidelife]

Judging LA based on what you see through your television screen is far from reality. Most LA movies are shot in the ghettos, maybe that's the reason why it appears to be 'bland'. Do you honestly believe what you see in the movies? While LA certainly has parts that are not exactly pleasing to the eye, you also must look at West Los Angeles.

[The anti-cheesehead]

Well since your in a debating mood ill play along. How many of you have lived in the Miami area for more than a short vacation. How many of you can really tell which city is better. And if it really is cheaper to live here, than tell me the prices out in Cali, cause they are through the roof here. I dont need to step foot in a place to know that I dont want to live there. Now dont get to upset by this but Im gonna use movie's for reference. In every movie that ive seen that shows LA it all looks like a concrete forest, everything looks bland, now if the people who produce movies in that very city cant even spruce it up a little than jiminy Christmas they suck. Now the movies ive seen of Miami one can clearly see the colorful skyline, the beautiful beach, Biscayne Bay, Key Biscayne, all the suburbs up and down the coast line, there is more to Miami then just Downtown Miami, theres alot to it. I never said one was beter than the other, I am just giving you my blunt oppinion from my blunt perspective. It isnt a great perspective but I came here to get a better perspective and now I got you flaming me, so much for Cali hospitality. Really the question I asked was for you to explain what entices people so about LA, that is not an unanswerable question. And someone DID answer it cause they said what they love about LA, so they gave me a better perspective. All in all this wasnt meant to cause so much debate.

You ask everyone if they've ever lived in Miami as opposed to vacationing in Miami (in other words, accusing everyone of not having enough experience with Miami), and then go on to admit that your perspective of LA comes from movies? Huh? Really? That doesn't reconcile.

"Really the question I asked was for you to explain what entices people so about LA that is not an unanswerable question."

Uh, no, this is what you said:

"I dont understand how LA can be better than Miami."

[Westsidelife]

California
Single Family Home $575,800
Condo $430,000

Regions
San Jose $819,950
Santa Barbara $778,850
San Francisco-Oakland $760,930
Santa Cruz $760,000
Monterey County $732,250
Orange County $725,190
Ventura $707,690
Napa-Sonoma Valleys $637,870
San Luis Obispo $620,540
San Diego $615,630
Los Angeles $580,140
Far Northern California $426,370
Riverside-San Bernardino $400,390
Sacramento $384,240
Palm Springs-Lower Desert $373,350
Central Valley $362,960

http://www.car.org/index.php?id=MzY0MzY=

[Elsongs]

Really the question I asked was for you to explain what entices people so about LA, that is not an unanswerable question. And someone DID answer it cause they said what they love about LA, so they gave me a better perspective. All in all this wasnt meant to cause so much debate.

What entices people about Los Angeles is the real city, which is the Los Angeles that you DON'T see in the movies. Does that answer your question?

[floridian-will]

Yeah I said "I dont understand why people like LA better than miami" that isnt a question thats a statement. Why are you bringing so much flame to the table. And again I admited my ignorance to LA, thats why I came here, to get a better outlook on it from people who live here. And LA prices dont look to far away from Florida prices, and thats the hurricanes, before the storms they as much if not higher than LA. I wanted to know whats so great about the real city, and i already was answered.

[godblessbotox]

:grouphug:

[svs]

What entices people about Los Angeles is the real city, which is the Los Angeles that you DON'T see in the movies. Does that answer your question?

I don't know why this thread has degenerated into an LA vs. Miami thread in such a short time but I will complement the Chicagoans and Torontonians for staying out for once.

Since I have spent a reasonable time in Miami over the years, (I have family from there and I gave a talk out there last year, I feel reasonably familiar with Miami to discuss this.)

Miami is a nice place, no question, and is in many ways very similar to Los Angeles in the sense that both are anglo-hispanic hybrids with good night life and generally warm weather. Its interesting, I once asked my cousin who grew up in Miami and went to school in Gainesville why he didn't visit us out in LOs Angeles more often. His answer was,"Too much like Miami". You can make what you want of that.

At any rate Los Angeles has everything Miami has to offer and more. We have ocean fishing and boating too. I prefer our beaches generally because they have not been over built with walls of condos like southern Florida. Miami is warmer than LA, thats for sure, much warmer, and a lot more humid. South Florida is a lot more uncomfortable in the summer, and there is the issue of tropical storms that come around a lot more often than our earthquakes. It seems Andrew did a lot more damage than any of the quakes I have been involved in.

LA has mountains, deserts, and plains. Miami has swamps and swamps that have been drained. Miami lacks the educational institutions, of LA. (Miami vs. USC, UCLA, Cal tech, Cal State, Occidental, Pomona, etc. etc.) Whatever you want to say about traffic in LA, the drivers in South Florida give the Bostonians a good run for the honor of being the worst drivers in the United States. Its a lot easier to get decent Cuban food in LA that Mexican food in Miami. Miami has only a fraction of the performing arts centers and facilities of Southern California. The termites and palmetto bugs in south Florida are much more annoying than anything we have here. And I think the alligator that show up in Floridian's swimming pools are more of an annoyance than the occasional bear that shows up in ours.

MIami has major crime problems, I think Opa -Locka took honors for worst crime city in the country not that long ago, and I don't want to talk about Liberty city.

I agree the Keys are paradise islands a short ways from Miami, but so is Catalina and the channel islands to LA. If you can get to the Bahamas easily by boat, its a short drive to Mexico for us. The Art Deco architecture in Miami beach is very nice, but you would be surprised how much of it is still found in Santa Monica and Hollywood. And Santa Barbara, San Diego, and Palm Springs are a lot closer to us than Orlando is to Miami. In fact Las Vegas, San Francisco, and Yosemite, are about as convenient for us as Orlando is for Dade County.

Miami's downtown is very depressing although it has shown signs of healthy regeneration recently, much like LA's. But there is a lot more to do in LA's downtown than Miami's.

And as for tropical, I can show you the Bananas, passion fruit, and guavas growing in my back yard. California avocados are much tastier than Florida avocados and California navel oranges are tastier than those from Florida too. IMHO.

Oh and when my cousin did finally come out here, I took down to the Venice canals and Santa Monica beach, he looked at the mountains and the sunset over Malibu, his opinion now? "Gee this is really very nice, I don't know why so many people put Los Angeles down."

[Suburbanite]

:grouphug:

godblessbotox-->:hug:<--me

[floridian-will]

Yeah but its just different. Ive been to San Diego and let me tell you the water was COLD, not blue or clear. Miami beach has those clear blue paradise waters. And what of Coral Reef. Florida has the only reef in the US, man I love snorkiling and diving. LA just sounds so different from Miami, and yet so much of the same stuff. Miami does have a more tropical atmosphere. Miami is in the only state surrounded buy water on three sides. Miami's whole theem is water, beaches, coral reef, everywhere. LA sounds awsome, ill visit sometime, but for now im in love with Miami, fort lauderdale, and West Palm Beach.

[archd1]

Good! As they say, "To Each His Own"! Do come for a visit and we'll welcome you...and I'm sure you'll have a great time here in LA! Thanks for visiting the LA forum....

[floridian-will]

Another thing is that I cant say anywhere in the US can be as nice as the Keys. The size of the keys span a large distance, im not sure about those Cali islands you mentioned, I had no idea there where Islands at Cali, but can you acces them by car? Almost all of the Keys can be reached by car. And again I really want to emphasize the importance of the reef that only Florida has. Florida has warmer waters. Miami is a great place for people like me who love tropical atmosphere beyond anything. Ive been to Cali I know its tropical but its a different kind. Miami is more laid back than where I was, which is San Diego, I dont know about LA, but when I see any skyline in Florida all I can think is, relaxsation mixed with awsome warm, blue beaches, beautiful tropical cities, awsome sun rises, and sun sets out in the glades. Where as LA packs all that in and more, BUT to a less extent. I cant imagine any US city pulling off as laid back and tropical atmosphere as South Florida cities. Its what Miami and the Keys are famouse for, our beaches, our islands, our reef, our snorkling, our diving, the ocasional treasure hunters on the treasure coast looking for stuff that washes ashore, the fisherman who can stay on the peirs and fish, or go out deap see fishing and get just the same luck no matter what, the beachgoers who cant decide between the sand red paved city walk that runs along Fort Lauderdale Beaches awsome wave wall, or famouse Miami beach with its clear blue still calming paradise water, wich is a major city in itself and located just east of Downtown Miami. Or just hang in Los Olas located in Downtown Fort Lauderdale, or go to Downtown Miami and view the tropical street shops lined with rugged palm trees. Or maybe head down to the Keys for the weakend, calm down in Key west or long key with the best fishing, snorkling, diving, swiming, or just relaxing. Or go to Biscayne Bay National Park, with Key Biscayne as its head Island the water in the bay is just as warm and pretty as the water that neighbors it in the ocean. THAT is what Miami is about. I know some of you dont want to hear about Miami, but thats why I like it better than any other place.

[archd1]

Thanks again for visiting the LA Forum!

[Elsongs]

Miami is in the only state surrounded buy water on three sides.


I didn't know Miami seceded from Florida and became a state...

But if you meant Florida I want to introduce you to another state surrounded by water on three sides:

http://www.plexoft.com/SBF/images/wustlmirror/alaska.gif

[Elsongs]

Thanks again for visiting the LA Forum!

floridian-will works for the Florida Board of Tourism. :)

[floridian-will]

Yeah man dont worry, im out. I prolly tict you Cali's off enough and I can take that one guys hint when he keeps sayin thanks for visiting, he really means bug off.

[soup or man]

^ I can see that you didn't graduate from Beverly Hills High.

[elisokool16]

I actually was born in LA, lived there for ten years, and now live in Miami. Although there are good things about Miami I would definately pick living in LA over Miami anyday. The great thing about LA is that there are so many types of different lifestyles to live there. I lived in Santa Monica which I loved and hope to live in at some point in the future. Personally, the whole Hollwood "Beverly Hills" glitz and glam is extremely overrated and that is not at all what makes LA a great city. LA has the best weather than anywhere in the country other than SF, and despite much disagreement, i think a laid back lifestyle can be led, just don't let the common misperception of what many others say about the city decieve you. don't move there for all the touristy shit.

[godblessbotox]

fun times...

[TheProfessor]

I too lived in LA for many years. Have also lived in Houston, DC, Boston, back to LA, and now San Diego. Have also traveled to a number of other US cities. LA is by far one of the most dynamic and exciting cities on the planet for all of the reasons aforementioned by others. There is truly no place like it. I can also relate to the love/hate relationship residents sometimes have with the place. It’s kind of like a passionate romance you have with an exotic woman. Some days she looks like the ugliest thing you ever wanted to see and you despise her for it but on other days she is the most beautiful and radiant women you ever laid eyes on and is completely irresistable. That’s LA--gray, gritty, and ugly one day, but after a nice shower followed by soft winds, crystal clear blue skies with the sun so bright, the ocean so blue, the hills so green, the San Gabriel Mountains so tall and majestic, and Catalina Island in full view off in the Pacific, LA can feel like the most beautiful place on earth.

[svs]

I had no idea there where Islands at Cali, but can you acces them by car?

No you cannot get to the channel Islands by car! That is part of the attraction and one of the things that make the Florida Keys a little less than a perfect paradise. You take the hydrofoil from San Pedro or Long Beach to Avalon on Catalina. Most of the Island is a nature preserve. Although there are no coral reefs out here, there is excellent snorkeling in the kelp forests. Catalina even has glass bottom boat rides and semisubmersible submarines for the less athletic, just like the Keys. You can also see flying fish or visit the buffalo herd on the Island by coach. BTW, you can't even bring a car on the island and you have to get around by foot or golf cart.

So much for the stereotype of car crazy Southern California.

The other islands are a little harder to get to, They form the Channel Islands national park and can only be accessed by boat. Island Packers an outfit in Ventura will take you out there for a reasonable fee. If you have your own boat, there is very good ocean fishing spots just off the islands. There are also sea caves on Santa Cruz island that you can steer your boat into. Sea life is abundant, during the right time of the year, you can spot blue and humpback whales, six species of seal, and at least three kinds of dolphin.

Isn't getting to be time for you to go back to the Miami Forum, until you have at least a superficial idea of what Southern California is like?

I concede the water is warmer on the Florida beaches, but our waves are better.

[Elsongs]

BTW, you can't even bring a car on the island and you have to get around by foot or golf cart.

So much for the stereotype of car crazy Southern California.


Actually you can, but there's a limit to the number of private cars on the island and there's a 3-year waiting list if you must bring your car. Avalon is a great place to navigate on bike (you don't even need to lock it, though I do out of habit), and you can bring your bike on the boat.

Catalina is the only Channel Island one can live on and it has two towns (Avalon and Two Harbors). The only other people who can inhabit ethe other islands are state parks workers and marine biologists.

http://www.homesparadise.com/homes/california/southern/los-angeles/catalina_island/catalina.jpg

[svs]

Actually you can, but there's a limit to the number of private cars on the island and there's a 3-year waiting list if you must bring your car. Avalon is a great place to navigate on bike (you don't even need to lock it, though I do out of habit), and you can bring your bike on the boat.

Catalina is the only Channel Island one can live on and it has two towns (Avalon and Two Harbors). The only other people who can inhabit ethe other islands are state parks workers and marine biologists.

You don't get on that waiting list if you don't live on the island. For most of us, it is impossible to bring a car to Catalina. You know what I mean. The point i should have made is that US1 running to key west spoils the tranquility of the Keys even if it makes them more accessible.

[Elsongs]

You don't get on that waiting list if you don't live on the island. For most of us, it is impossible to bring a car to Catalina. You know what I mean. The point i should have made is that US1 running to key west spoils the tranquility of the Keys even if it makes them more accessible.

Yes, I forgot to mention that the beauty of Catalina is that you don't have any highways/freeways there.

A car is also impractical in Catalina. The only place where you'd be driving around is Avalon, and the place is so small that you can literally walk from one end of town to another in half an hour.

[floridian-will]

Well no one here is bothered by the highway. It doesnt ruin the keys. And if I want waves ill go to Cocoa Beach. But the water is shallower and clearer in the keys than any other place ive seen, and just cause you have those kelp forests doesnt make up for your lack of reef, the reefs are also viewable by not even going in the water, and the reefs are on almost every Island, you dont even need a bike to get to them, just walk out your front door and your there. Those bridges that you say ruin the keys actualy give you AWSOME views of the reefs, and all the different colors of water in the keys, I would be upset if they took the bridges away from the keys. And all you have to do is look out your window and youll easily spot 5 uninhabited Islands. You can boat to those Islands and its like owning your own Islands for the day. Some Islands are all mangrove while others have awsome beaches, you can go shelling all day on. All in all, Cali sounds nice, I liked the views of the hills when I was at SD, but Florida is different, the keys aren't just a chain of Islands, there are hundreds of them all over the place, and you have to take a boat to get to Dry Tortugas national monument, which is NOT accesable by car. The two places are too different to judge.

[soup or man]

Earthquakes are cooler than hurricanes.

[future_trance011]

Do I love LA? HELLL YEAHH!!!

If Los Angeles was a whore, all the other cities would seem like prudes standing next to her (maybe with the exception of NYC and SF). Never is she boring and always ready for a good time! :banana:

I love that LA is a city of contradictions; for what appears on the surface may not be a true reflection of its inner core. Blessed with brawn, beauty and brains; its attraction transcends the superficial. And there's something here for everyone; everything from its luscious, curvaceous hills, its mountains, beaches, valleys, harbor, marinas...Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Malibu, Pasadena, Long Beach, Manhattan Beach, Los Feliz, Silver Lake, West LA, East LA, SGV, etc. This city is a magnet for both young and old, rich or poor, bent or straight, atheist or God-fearing, etc. Its gravity emanating far and wide, everyone from movie stars in Malibu to the intellecutals at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory and Caltech in Pasadena. From the ever cool, hipsters in Silverlake/Echo Park to the Cholos in the barrios of East LA. From the muscly, robust denizens of Venice beach, to the botox crazed housewives of Brentwood. LA at times is sort of a strange paradox, but nonetheless a very interesting one.:lol:

I love its multitude of "illusion factories" that churn out such vomit-inducing, putrid fecal matter such as 'Dancing With The Stars' and 'Moesha'. Luckily its all counter-balanced by an amazing slew of world class museums/cultural institutions such as LACMA, MOCA, Getty museum, Norton Simon museum, La Brea Tar Pits, Huntington Gardens, Walt Disney Concert Hall, LA County Arboretum, Hollywood Bowl, Griffith Park, etc.

I love the fact that the city is so "GINORMOUS"!!! As a result there's so much to explore. LA is an eclectic, multi-faceted, multi-dimensional, multi-nodal monster that pulsates to its own vibe and beat. From the very scenic Arroyo-Seco freeway corridor to the concrete jungles of Watts. From the beautiful Santa Monica cliffs, with its towering palm trees to the barren, moon-like monoliths of the Coachella Valley. Even a simple drive along Sunset Blvd. in a convertible with the wind blowing in your hair is an experience all onto itself..especially with the beautiful Hollywood Hills, Topanga Canyon, Mt. Olympus looming over the city. Walking down Hollywood Blvd. or Old Town Pasadena you can feel the energy of the streets percolating through your veins. Driving into Pasadena on the Arroyo-Seco Freeway (110 Freeway aka Pasadena Freeway) into pasadena is such a verdant treat with its hills looking like those in Ireland (during LA's rainy season) and veritible "Golden Hills" like the ones in Oakland in the dryer Summer months.


I love the fact that many trends are set in Los Angeles; Everything from True Religon Jeans to the concept cars of tomorrow at many of LA's design studios. What we see today in LA is what you'll see paraded in many cities across the world tomorrow.

The diversity of its people and the many ethnic communties makes it such an interesting place. From Little Tokyo, Little Armenia, Little Ethiopia, Thaitown, Chinatown, Little Taipei (Monterey Park), Little Saigon, Sawtelle, Koreatown, Historic Fillipinotown, etc. And as a result of this, many fantastic and truly authentic restaurants of every imaginable nature proliferate the LA landscape.
Taking your taste buds to places where its never been before! Whether its trying tang-su-yok (korean barbecue beef) for the first time in Koreatown or tasting a savory, bowl of shark fin soup at many of the authentic Chinese restaurants in the San Gabriel Valley.

I also love LA's classic skyline. Although not as big as Chicago's or New York's ,its still quite beautiful with the Library Tower as its apex; almost mimicking the majestic, convoluted, San Gabriel Mtns. in the background. Hmmm, sometimes I wonder, had LA's topography been more flat..would we have a much bigger and taller skyline today? Would the lack of mountains and hills force Angelenos to build more vertically? I just love being able to take a date up to the Griffith Observatory just when the sun is abou to set; when the sky is bathed in a vermillion, pinkish hue right when the sun drops below the horizon, and just being able to look down at the city that very moment, awashed in a dizzying sea of lights, twinkling ever-so metaphorically like the stars in the sky

I love the Dodgers/Lakers/Kings/USC football/UCLA Basketball/Avengers!!!

Oh, and I love LA's mediterranean climate. IMO, LA is blessed with the best weather in the country. The 320 days average of sunshine each year makes excercising, walking outdoors such an enjoyble experience. Warm days and cool nights with gentle ocean breezes and a generally low relative humidity. Just not having to deal with the humidity and pesky mosquitoes is like heaven to me! Thank you Jesus!!! LOL:lol:

Last but not least, I love LA because Angelenos really know how to party!!!:cheers: Especially on Halloween, every year Angelenos from all walks of life descend on Santa Monica Blvd. in WeHo ;and the really cool thing is..it doesn't matter whether you're heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, transexual, metrosexual or even try-sexual..LOL.. its okay for you to just party and intermingle in a costume orgyfest with the craziest, bawdiest, and biggest collection of freaks of its kind (600,000 +) anywhere else on Halloween, which just can't be beat!!!


Here's a hilarious 6 page photo blog from the 2006 WeHo Halloween Street Party courtesy of www.i-mockery. com

Enjoy! :lol:

http://www.i-mockery.com/minimocks/weho-06/default.php

...

[Suburbanite]

But if you meant Florida I want to introduce you to another state surrounded by water on three sides:

http://www.plexoft.com/SBF/images/wustlmirror/alaska.gif

And if you want to get technical, Michigan would also fit that description since it is surrounded by Lakes Superior, Huron, and Michigan to the north, east, and west respectively.

Just a little off topic jaunt...

[Suburbanite]

Earthquakes are cooler than hurricanes.

Except in the very rare case that a hurricane hits California. It's improbable, but not impossible. The East Pacific has been very active lately...

[godblessbotox]

one has come up here in the history of recording hurricans... and i think it was nicly burnt out when it got here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Global_tropical_cyclone_tracks-edit2.jpg

[floridian-will]

It would be very difficult for a hurrican eot hit LA. The reason your region is active lately is due to El Nino. Thus our region is inactive due to shear winds that El Nino has cause to rip our storms apart. But the currents of the ocean are not in favor of a storm hittin LA as far as I know. Mexico really is all that needs to be worried because the rare ocasion that the storms dont just head west, they hit mexico and dissapate before they reach Cali. Lie botox said, only one has hit your area, Im not sure if thats official or not but it sounds about right. LA is on a part of California that the storm would have to cruze up the coast and the make a turn to the east, that is very unlikely, or go straight through land loosing most strength. Even Hawii has had more hurricanes than LA, but for the record, hurricanes are pretty AWSOME until you have to deal with the damage.

[Elsongs]

It would be very difficult for a hurrican eot hit LA. The reason your region is active lately is due to El Nino. Thus our region is inactive due to shear winds that El Nino has cause to rip our storms apart. But the currents of the ocean are not in favor of a storm hittin LA as far as I know. Mexico really is all that needs to be worried because the rare ocasion that the storms dont just head west, they hit mexico and dissapate before they reach Cali. Lie botox said, only one has hit your area, Im not sure if thats official or not but it sounds about right. LA is on a part of California that the storm would have to cruze up the coast and the make a turn to the east, that is very unlikely, or go straight through land loosing most strength. Even Hawii has had more hurricanes than LA, but for the record, hurricanes are pretty AWSOME until you have to deal with the damage.

Hurricanes require warm water to create the energy for the storm. As you said yourself our ocean water is too cold and thus cannot sustain the energy of a hurricane. The only thing close to hurricanes that we can get here are the remnants of a tropical storm after it has long died down -- i.e. a slightly warmer than normal rain storm.

When an earthquake hits, it lasts for about one minute and anything that doesn't fall down is just fine. But a hurricane lasts for hours can flood your entire house.

[Elsongs]

Except in the very rare case that a hurricane hits California. It's improbable, but not impossible. The East Pacific has been very active lately...

Our ocean water is too cold to sustain a hurricane. Cold temperatures kill hurricanes. Maybe when global warming gets worse...

[godblessbotox]

3,ooo - 5,ooo foot hills dont help ither

[Elsongs]

Hmmm, sometimes I wonder, had LA's topography been more flat..would we have a much bigger and taller skyline today? Would the lack of mountains and hills force Angelenos to build more vertically?


That might have been likely. For most cities with tall structures, the height is also a function for radio/TV broadcast transmitters. The tallest structures in North America (CN Tower, Sears Tower, WTC, Empire State Building) are all topped by broadcast transmitters. And it's no coincidence that the surrounding topography in NYC, Chicago and Toronto is flat.

If it were not for our mountains we would have had to create tall buildings to function as broadcast transmitters. That's also one of the reasons why the tall buildings we do have are not topped by spires, we have no functional need for them to be.

[Suburbanite]

Our ocean water is too cold to sustain a hurricane. Cold temperatures kill hurricanes. Maybe when global warming gets worse...

Well actually a hurricane can sustain itself over water less than 80 degrees fahrenheit (the lower limit for hurricane development) if it is moving fast. For instance, Nova Scotia has been hit several times by hurricanes in the past even though ocean temps there are comparable to California, only because hurricanes can sometimes move very rapidly over the Eastern seaboard. Hurricane Bob back in the '90s is a good example of that. The fact that California is never hit has just as much to do with the orientation of the tradewinds as it does the ocean temperature. It is likely impossible for San Fran to see a hurricane but LA and San Diego could be fair game under the right circumstances.

[Elsongs]

Well actually a hurricane can sustain itself over water less than 80 degrees fahrenheit (the lower limit for hurricane development) if it is moving fast. For instance, Nova Scotia has been hit several times by hurricanes in the past even though ocean temps there are comparable to California, only because hurricanes can sometimes move very rapidly over the Eastern seaboard. Hurricane Bob back in the '90s is a good example of that. The fact that California is never hit has just as much to do with the orientation of the tradewinds as it does the ocean temperature. It is likely impossible for San Fran to see a hurricane but LA and San Diego could be fair game under the right circumstances.

Much of the Los Angeles metropolitan area is inland and since there is no considerably large body of water to keep it going, by the time it leaves the coast it would weaken very fast. All most people would see is a really heavy rainstorm.

[Joey313]

^^the chances of L.A getting a hurricane are low
extremly low

[floridian-will]

Lets just leave it at the chances are low. LA water isnt much colder than where the Perfect Storm hit. The thing is that the currents dont favor a strom making that route. The storms in the pacific almost always head west or WNW if you watch them. For a strom to hit LA it would have to move NW. And the mountains protect you also. But the fact that a storm would decipate before it reaches LA because it left the coast is not true. I live in West Palm and our worst storm in the past few years was Wilma and wilma had to go through the entire width of the peninsula to reach us and it maintianed streangth the entire way until it reached the east coast, it got stronger when it reached the east coast cause it was back in water which couldnt happen in Cali. But what im trying to say is that the storm wont weaken if its heading from West to East into Cali cause its not alota miles or mountains protecting the metro area from the coast is there?

[godblessbotox]

oh no everyone pack up your things and move to palmdale!!!! floridian-wills perfect storm is on the way!!! that proves our city is a lesser city! the debate is finished, la has lost!! oh my god!

[chicagogeorge]

You know, NYC has been hit by hurricanes before, so L.A. can be hit by a hurricane, but most likely a weak one. Further south around Baja, they have seen very strong hurricanes this year. Last years New Orlean's disaster will one day be repeated. Miami, Orlando, Tampa Bay, New Orleans, and Houston should have a serious disaster plan in place to avoid what happend when Katrina hit.

If I were an Angelino, I wouldn't be too worried about hurricanes. Earthquakes on the other hand, are a different story.

[Quegiebo]

Hurricanes are heat-engines. In order to intensify, they require surface water temps. of 80 degrees or warmer. The avg. west coast water temps during the hottest months of the year fall short of 80 degrees, so hurricanes are, as a general rule, starved of the "gasoline" needed to power the engine. The chances of a major hurricane striking LA is quite unlikely, meteorologically speaking. :)

This is my first visit outside of the FL forums. Thanks for sending me this way, floridian-will. There's no question that LA and its surrounding areas are incredible, but my heart still remains in lil' ol' Tampa. I love Florida's west coast. :cheers:

[floridian-will]

oh no everyone pack up your things and move to palmdale!!!! floridian-wills perfect storm is on the way!!! that proves our city is a lesser city! the debate is finished, la has lost!! oh my god!

Stay off of drugs kids

[floridian-will]

Hurricanes are heat-engines. In order to intensify, they require surface water temps. of 80 degrees or warmer. The avg. west coast water temps during the hottest months of the year fall short of 80 degrees, so hurricanes are, as a general rule, starved of the "gasoline" needed to power the engine. The chances of a major hurricane striking LA is quite unlikely, meteorologically speaking. :)

This is my first visit outside of the FL forums. Thanks for sending me this way, floridian-will. There's no question that LA and its surrounding areas are incredible, but my heart still remains in lil' ol' Tampa. I love Florida's west coast. :cheers:

Yeah man I will always love florida more, but LA sounds pretty cool

[godblessbotox]

oooo good one

[Joey313]

L.A is cool
lol

[Elsongs]

You know, NYC has been hit by hurricanes before, so L.A. can be hit by a hurricane, but most likely a weak one. Further south around Baja, they have seen very strong hurricanes this year. Last years New Orlean's disaster will one day be repeated. Miami, Orlando, Tampa Bay, New Orleans, and Houston should have a serious disaster plan in place to avoid what happend when Katrina hit.

If I were an Angelino, I wouldn't be too worried about hurricanes. Earthquakes on the other hand, are a different story.

NYC is right on the Atlantic and not that much far north from the Bahamas. The weather gets humid there sometimes, right? The water out there can get much warmer.

As for crossing peninsulas, that is correct, but oftentimes the edge of the storm is already reaching the warm waters of the other body of water on the edge of the storm while the eye is still working on the other side.

There was one hurricane in recorded city to hit Los Angeles, it happened in the 1800s. It destroyed much of whole city, but back then in the small town of a few thousand, everyone lived in a simple house out of wood or adobe.

As for worrying about earthquakes, no freaking DUH. But a shaker causes far less damage than a hurricane does. Your carpet will be just fine after an earthquake. After a hurricane? Forget it.

In reality, tornadoes are far more of a threat in Los Angeles area than hurricanes are. A tornado tore a large hole in the LA Convention Center during a major El Nino-related storm in early 1983.

[floridian-will]

Yeah and in that movie, "The Day after Tommorow." Those tornadoes DESTROYED LA. Bad special effects though.

[Joey313]

^^ that movie was awsome

[Elsongs]

I think Floridian-Will is hoping and praying that a Hurricane destroys Los Angeles one day. :lol:

[godblessbotox]

thats ok, his state is nothing but a big swamp

[floridian-will]

No im not hoping that. It would mean that global warming is farther along than we think, that would suck

[Quegiebo]

oh no everyone pack up your things and move to palmdale!!!! floridian-wills perfect storm is on the way!!! that proves our city is a lesser city! the debate is finished, la has lost!! oh my god!

Why be so condesending? That's not what floridan-will said and he certainly wasn't being demeaning, unlike you! But you've managed to twist his words in a negative fashion... WOW!

Please tell me that everyone in LA isn't as arrogant as Godblessbotox!!! It's no wonder I haven't responded beyond the Florida forums. :(

b.t.w. I respectfully suggest that no one should identify God as "god". That is so absolutely demeaning unless you are the ultimate creator! Try a big "G" for "God's" sake... what are you thinking? And I don't give a damn if you're religious or not! That's so disrespectful! And I really hope that most Americans on the left coast don't show this kind of contempt towards "God", whether you are theological or not.

I am so totally blown away... How sad!!! :(

[archd1]

^^^ Thank you for visiting the LA Forum, God Bless!

[mongozx]

oh jesus christ! quit yer bitchin and moanin and either get back on topic or go back to your own forum.

And to the LA, Cali or Miami, FL reference. . .to each his own.

This year a major polling company (Harris) took a poll asking:

"If you could live in any state/city in the country, except the state/city you live in now, what state/city would you choose to live in?"

Although Florida came in 3rd after California (#1) and Hawaii (#2) there weren't too many Floridian cities mentioned.

Here are the results (http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=697).

[archd1]

^^ Thanks for the info....but this poll made me scratch my head. LA is number 11 yet it is the 2nd largest city/metro area in the US and still growing. This explains the fact that people's perception of LA is still not as favorable as we would hope but they keep on coming anyway.....

[godblessbotox]

:lol:

[floridian-will]

Why be so condesending? That's not what floridan-will said and he certainly wasn't being demeaning, unlike you! But you've managed to twist his words in a negative fashion... WOW!

Please tell me that everyone in LA isn't as arrogant as Godblessbotox!!! It's no wonder I haven't responded beyond the Florida forums. :(

b.t.w. I respectfully suggest that no one should identify God as "god". That is so absolutely demeaning unless you are the ultimate creator! Try a big "G" for "God's" sake... what are you thinking? And I don't give a damn if you're religious or not! That's so disrespectful! And I really hope that most Americans on the left coast don't show this kind of contempt towards "God", whether you are theological or not.

I am so totally blown away... How sad!!! :(

Thanks for the help bro but dont worry about it, botox is always condecending, does it to get under people skin. And I agree we should use God's name with a capitol letter. And mongozx we are already off topic so dont try to fix it now. Did you guys look and see that Florida was number one until those hurricanes hit? Yeah and we will be number one again if hurricanes leave us alone, we just need another good season and we will be above Cali and LA again.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Why be so condesending? That's not what floridan-will said and he certainly wasn't being demeaning, unlike you! But you've managed to twist his words in a negative fashion... WOW!

Please tell me that everyone in LA isn't as arrogant as Godblessbotox!!! It's no wonder I haven't responded beyond the Florida forums. :(

b.t.w. I respectfully suggest that no one should identify God as "god". That is so absolutely demeaning unless you are the ultimate creator! Try a big "G" for "God's" sake... what are you thinking? And I don't give a damn if you're religious or not! That's so disrespectful! And I really hope that most Americans on the left coast don't show this kind of contempt towards "God", whether you are theological or not.

I am so totally blown away... How sad!!! :(

honestly, if your blown away by that, you shouldnt leave the cacoon that is the religious south.

do you think god cares whether or not his name is typed with a capital letter? who cares? Organized religion seriously blows my mind. they brainwash people so easily.

by the way Quegiebo, this is not directed to you, they are just my general thoughts. to each their own.

[floridian-will]

We type everyone elses name with the first letter caped but we wont show that same respect to our creator. Hmm that odd. Well lets not make this a religious debate, like you said, to each his own, if you wanna beleive that a universe that is impossible to ever understand, and impossible to ever know the ends of, just kinda made itself then go ahead.

[Westsidelife]

You people...are all messed up.

[chicagogeorge]

Ok I'm gonna have some fun with this.......


That is so absolutely demeaning unless you are the ultimate creator!

I am the ultimate creator so when you write my sceen name it should be in Chicagogeorge, And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is ... (got that from Pulp Fiction).:lol:


We type everyone elses name with the first letter caped but we wont show that same respect to our creator.


People are real and thus deserve a title, and our primitive notion of what a creator is may not be.......eg addressing the creator as a "he"........The term "god" is generic. Why could as easily call the creator "dog". It's not "his" name.

Yahweh, Jesus, Mohammad, Zeus, Posiedon, Amon, Osiris are names of gods/deities so they are capitalized.



Hmm that odd. Well lets not make this a religious debate, like you said, to each his own, if you wanna beleive that a universe that is impossible to ever understand, and impossible to ever know the ends of, just kinda made itself then go ahead.

Yeah, and the mysteries of the universe were revealed to some desert nomad on top of a mountain in the middle east searching for a home some 3000 years ago as the freaking Red Sea parted........Then our "creator" sent his "son" down to save us.......:sleepy:


I'll stick to science....

O.K I'll stop now......

[Westsidelife]

Um floridian-will, please leave the LA forum as you have already ruined this thread with your Florida BS. And second, you come in here and criticize the LA forumers and act like you're the victim. GET OUT.

[ArchiTennis]

Ok I'm gonna have some fun with this.......



I am the ultimate creator so when you write my sceen name it should be in Chicagogeorge, And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is ... (got that from Pulp Fiction).:lol:





People are real and thus deserve a title, and our primitive notion of what a creator is may not be.......eg addressing the creator as a "he"........The term "god" is generic. Why could as easily call the creator "dog". It's not "his" name.

Yahweh, Jesus, Mohammad, Zeus, Posiedon, Amon, Osiris are names of gods/deities so they are capitalized.




Yeah, and the mysteries of the universe were revealed to some desert nomad on top of a mountain in the middle east searching for a home some 3000 years ago as the freaking Red Sea parted........Then our "creator" sent his "son" down to save us.......:sleepy:


I'll stick to science....

O.K I'll stop now......

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

all i can do is laugh at you.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[chicagogeorge]

edit

[ArchiTennis]

seriuosly though...it's capital G

[chicagogeorge]

edit

[ArchiTennis]

for those who do and for those who don't....I believe in both. science and creation....even if you don't agree...don't be disrespectful - didn't mommy and daddy teach you anything?

[chicagogeorge]

for those who do and for those who don't....I believe in both. science and creation....even if you don't agree...don't be disrespectful


I have to address something that I don't believe in with a superior title?

People can believe in whatever they want.




- didn't mommy and daddy teach you anything?


Actaully, people who try to push their beliefs onto others are the ones being disrespectful.


Now let's get back to the topic of this thread.

[godblessbotox]

yippy los angeles!!!

[floridian-will]

One, the person who started this thread doesnt post here anymore so why get back to a dead topic.

Two if I ruined it than why post here.

Three Im not gonna push my religion off on you, but I am gonna tell you that without faith alota people would be lost, and guess who came up with the big bang theary, Father Georges Lemaître, A PRIEST. So as you can see, religion confirms science and science confirms religion. And also I forgot who, but a queen found the remains of a cross that was found and said to be the cross of Jesus, and when someone touched it they coincidently got healed. How do you explain that. And that was a pretty recent thing, it didnt happen thousands of years ago, and it was confirmed. I'm not to sure about science, but I dont believe in coincidence.

[Joey313]

you tell em

[klamedia]

^^ Thanks for the info....but this poll made me scratch my head. LA is number 11 yet it is the 2nd largest city/metro area in the US and still growing. .....

I'm really surprised that it's ranked that high!

[Elsongs]

Here are the results (http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=697).


The fact that NYC ranked so high is proof that those marketing companies on Madison Avenue own this country.

[soup or man]

It would be very difficult for a hurrican eot hit LA. The reason your region is active lately is due to El Nino. Thus our region is inactive due to shear winds that El Nino has cause to rip our storms apart. But the currents of the ocean are not in favor of a storm hittin LA as far as I know. Mexico really is all that needs to be worried because the rare ocasion that the storms dont just head west, they hit mexico and dissapate before they reach Cali. Lie botox said, only one has hit your area, Im not sure if thats official or not but it sounds about right. LA is on a part of California that the storm would have to cruze up the coast and the make a turn to the east, that is very unlikely, or go straight through land loosing most strength. Even Hawii has had more hurricanes than LA, but for the record, hurricanes are pretty AWSOME until you have to deal with the damage.

Sufers love eastern Pacific hurricanes. While hurricanes usually skirt the Mexican coast line and venture out to sea, they create huge waves that batter the coast. Sometimes the waves errode the coast and rarely they do damage to coastal homes. But it really is a site to see 10-15 foot waves in Newport Beach.

And heaven forgive LA if we ever get struck by a hurricane. We all know how LA desends to the depths of hell with it sprinkles.

[Evertraveller]

LA is the greatest city of North America. Nice people, a lot of places to visit... I think the only alternative could be London-city.

[LA-dude]

Welcome Evertraveller....you should post in the Roll Call

[Elsongs]

LA is the greatest city of North America. Nice people, a lot of places to visit... I think the only alternative could be London-city.

London, Ontario?

[nygirl]

The fact that NYC ranked so high is proof that those marketing companies on Madison Avenue own this country.
:lol: ;) :okay: Yeah bud sure they do... If that makes u feel better keep on believing :)

Cheers.