Lightbox | U/C | 42 st | 165 m | Downtown

[Whistler]

This September an official announcement will be made about the launch of this project.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i165/whistlerinToronto/festivalTower.jpg

www.festivaltower.com (Festival Tower)

[phunky]

it's a really nice tower, but i think it should be taller.

[TorontoLover2]

SEXY DUDE

[Marcanadian]

You beat me to it. ;)

http://www.urbandb.com/canada/ontario/toronto/tiff_rendering.jpg

http://www.urbandb.com/canada/ontario/toronto/2507fc.jpg

It's a pretty nice tower and will suit well.

[LordMandeep]

will fit in nicely and that area is becoming one hell of entertainment district!

[Taller, Better]

I'm more excited about how all this planning and reorganization is going to vault the TIFF to another level. It truly needs a home base and this is the perfect location for it!

[LordMandeep]

they could make it taller if demand is high like the Mississauga tower.

[taal]

The design seems okay if that, I love the podium though

If the upper slab is just bare concrete (Even if its Stucco) and it isn't lit up at all types it'll be terrible

[rbt]

i think it should be taller.
Not to worry, it will still stand out quite a bit.

It will be as large from the West as Spire is from the East.

[valantino]

"they could make it taller if demand is high like the Mississauga tower."

no they can't

[taal]

Anyone no the exact height? 140m?

[Marcanadian]

^^ 157m

[taal]

Wow doesn't look that tall.

The rendering doesn't really reveal much in the way of detail. Even though it is slab like if there is a lot of attention to the little things it might actually turn out quite well - fingures crossed, i guess thats all we can do for now

[Waterloo_Guy]

Looks just like the previous rendering. But, if it is 157m, I'm not complaining.

[InTheBeach]

Looks boxy! :)

I'm with TB and prefer the contents of the podium. :runaway:

[mikep]

Its OK but Id rather it be a bit more slender.

[Waterloo_Guy]

Lets be honest--this design sucks hard. This tower is going to be associated with the TIFF and from the rendering it looks just like a lot of the crap that is going up south of the tracks.

[Martinsizon]

I really think TIFF deserves a better design for the tower than this. The tower will be seen by many tourist and i think this is where you need a creative idea

[Jackhammer]

I was hoping for a re-design. This tower is very bland. You would think that a festival based on the arts would be centred at something artistic.

[Dieselpwrz]

Is anyone thinking of paying the $1,000 to get into the 'inner circle'. Is it worth it??

[valantino]

The tower has nothing to do with TIFF

[myredhotcar]

wow when this things built with ritz carleton etc what we have here will not be the entertainment district: it will be the new yorkville! Ritzy, high end clothing shops to follow.... Baby Gap on wellington? Check. Whole Foods? Check. Holts? Maybe check. Big changes in next decade. wow.

[Whistler]

I agree this building should be more dramatic for the amount of time it will spend in the spot light. I've posted it before on other sites, but I still think a design like this one would be great for this location. Not only is it a sleek design, but it looks like film that has come unwound.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i165/whistlerinToronto/T1projet-grand.jpg

[LordMandeep]

that a modern design which does not look cheesy.

[Canadian Chocho]

It looks a bit dull. With a name like "Festival Tower" I think it should be more original.

[valantino]

But it probably won't be even noticed since celebrities arriving from distant hotels in Yorkville aren't usually 500 feet tall.



Whether the TIFF complex will be heralded or lauded will depend on its facilites and not some condo tower set back towards the rear

And, its not a bad looking condo tower to begin with

[thryve]

It's a nice tower, represents Toronto architecture just fine.

But the podium will be getting the attention, and I like it... I think this is a tower for us to be quite content with, thank you very much ;)

[rakesh]

I agree this building should be more dramatic for the amount of time it will spend in the spot light. I've posted it before on other sites, but I still think a design like this one would be great for this location. Not only is it a sleek design, but it looks like film that has come unwound.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i165/whistlerinToronto/T1projet-grand.jpg


That's a nice one.

[spasongs]

Glad to see it happening, but I agree, crap design.

I thought our bafoon mayor was demanding better design and all. Maybe he might do something regarding this. Then again maybe not

[camel_trainer]

That circular building is so nice. I guess it's not too practical, especially for a residential building. But man, is the festival tower ever boring. I hadn't appreciated just how boring it was going to be. The podium is nice, though. Reminds me a bit of the new opera house.

[KGB]

I'm hoping the render is just not showing the design details the actual tower will have...KPMB is more than capable of producing a sleek modern design that will turn out great and not be all that obvious from that render....which is a tad basic anyway.

I think the actual TIFF podium will set the tone anyway....and anything on the north side of King will do wonders. That row of restaurants on the south side is great, but is totally ruined by that giant parking lot across the street...when the north side has something built out to the sidewalk, that stretch will feel a zillion times better. And this is the most important contribution this project will bring, other than TIFF itself obviously.

TIFF will really give the Entertainment District a new layer.






KGB

[Taller, Better]

For me, the podium is by far the most important item in this structure. The rest of it is pleasant enough and I am not at all concerned about it. I want a wonderful home for TIFF first and foremost.

[InTheBeach]

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i165/whistlerinToronto/festivalTower.jpg

Not sure about the tower, but women wrapped in film is sexy as shit. Where is the whip?

[neilio]

I agree this building should be more dramatic for the amount of time it will spend in the spot light. I've posted it before on other sites, but I still think a design like this one would be great for this location. Not only is it a sleek design, but it looks like film that has come unwound.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i165/whistlerinToronto/T1projet-grand.jpg

thats one sexy tower, where is it being proposed?

[LordMandeep]

Its either Europe or Australia.

[Jackhammer]

That circular building is so nice. I guess it's not too practical, especially for a residential building. But man, is the festival tower ever boring. I hadn't appreciated just how boring it was going to be. The podium is nice, though. Reminds me a bit of the new opera house.
No less practical than the Absolute Towers in Mississauga. I think that is an ideal design for the Festival Tower, of course you would have to re-work the actual TIFF centre base to match. Too bad though... as the ad says, the plans and in place and the design is complete.

[metroboi_nay]

I agree this building should be more dramatic for the amount of time it will spend in the spot light. I've posted it before on other sites, but I still think a design like this one would be great for this location. Not only is it a sleek design, but it looks like film that has come unwound.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i165/whistlerinToronto/T1projet-grand.jpg

this shoud be the new sapphire tower design :) keeps a bit of the old look in it, with the ball on top :)

[Taller, Better]

I would love to see that baby constructed, if the rendering is accurate. Does anyone know more specifically where it is from?

[Jackhammer]

I would love to see that baby constructed, if the rendering is accurate. Does anyone know more specifically where it is from?
I googled the label on the adjacent building if that is any hint. It shows up as a French telecommunications company.

Could this be a proposal for La Defence?

[monkeyronin]

Right you are, Jackhammer.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/8416/t103bhj8.jpg

No idea on the status of this project though (I just googled the image file and it brought me to a French forum. Emporis had nothing on this either).

[riley]

I think it's incredibly bold and ridiculous for this company to ask people to effectively put down a $1000 deposit before even revealing any floorplans or amenities or price points. Especially given it has been almost two years since they first started advertising this and they have been incredibly delayed. I can't imagine anybody wanting to pay any kind of money for the 'privilege' of getting a first opportunity to buy with so little information...and with the market today, there is no mad rush to buy before a buildling sells out. They will be flogging this project for a while, and when the building is open they certainly won't make anyone pay $1000 for the opportunity to buy a unit from them. I do think this is an interesting project, but its also been so incredibly delayed I would think a wait-and-see approach would be wise.

[cassius]

^ This isn't really new to the industry. I beleive CityPlace does the same thing. Besides, the $1000 is fully refundable. There's plenty of investors out there looking for a good project to buy into and are more than willing to front a measly $1000 to be first in line.

[Martinsizon]

Festival Centre will start construction in the spring

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1156369812550

Dream home for film fest
Construction finally to begin early next year on Toronto Film Festival's complex of cinemas, museum, shop and condos
Aug. 24, 2006. 05:32 AM
MARTIN KNELMAN


It is taking two or three years longer than originally planned. But yesterday Piers Handling, CEO of the Toronto International Film Festival Group, revealed some good news as he heads into the 31st edition of the annual festival opening Sept. 7.

The shovel will finally go into the ground during the first three months of 2007 to start building the festival's elusive new dream home over a parking lot at King and John Sts. It promises to make festival activities a year-round feature of downtown life, and dramatically increase the festival's economic impact.

"This is a historic moment for us," Handling says. "It may have taken us longer to nail down the details but we have a firm commitment from our development partner to start building in the first quarter of next year."

At the same time, Handling and Bruce Kuwabera, the lead architect on the project, released detailed images that provide a sense of what the building will look like and feel like both from the inside and the outside.

"The basic idea is that the building will be like a city of film," explains Kuwabera (of the firm KPMB), "emphasizing the cinematic play of light and shadow, with many different frames linked by bridges and alleys."

According to Kuwabera, the festival group's five-storey, 150,000-square-foot podium will be divided into two parts — the open public area on the lower three levels, and a closed office area on the upper two levels.

The ground level will be a dramatic lobby area suitable for receptions and media conferences, with an atrium extending to the top of the third level. The entry level also features a gallery large enough to house major film museum exhibits (such as a Hitchcock show from Paris that visited Montreal but not Toronto), as well as a retail shop stocked with film items and the festival's box office.

The second level will be dominated by three state-of-the-art screen rooms with 550 seats, 350 seats and 250 seats, along with a green room for guest talent.

Each cinema will have raked seating, and will be used for TIFF's Cinematheque Ontario programs, limited runs of specialty movies that do not have commercial distribution, and such annual Toronto film festivals as Hot Docs, the Gay and Lesbian festival and the Human Rights Watch festival.

The third level will have two smaller screening rooms with 150 seats and 80 seats.

The Film Reference Library will be placed on the fourth level, with most of the office space on the fifth floor.

Kuwabera has designed two separate atriums — a light-filled one on the top two levels, and a darker, more Film Noirish one on the lower three levels.

Above the podium: 37 storeys of luxury condo apartments being built by the festival's development partners, The Daniels Corp., in collaboration with Hollywood producer Ivan Reitman, whose family had owned the parking lot for decades.

Sales of the condo units are being launched on Sept. 8 with what is being billed as "an Inner Circle red carpet event" on the patio at Roy Thomson Hall. Prospective buyers for the 400 units have been wooed with the slogan "Get the star treatment."

The marketing campaign for the condos emphasizes they're ideal for people who want to live in a never-ending film festival.

Handling's development department still has a long way to go to reach its target of raising $196 million (which includes an endowment fund). The festival's share of the building cost is $129 million. So far it has raised $132 million, including $25 million each from the federal government and the Ontario government and more than $30 million from Bell, whose deal includes naming rights for the building.

That is enough to get the building started but the festival needs to raise at least $64 million more between now and 2009.

Yesterday Handling announced two new gifts: $1 million from Toronto broadcasting tycoon Allan Slaight, and $500,000 from BMO. The biggest naming opportunity up for grabs is the largest of the five cinemas — which is worth $10 million or more.

The target completion date has been put back to the 2009 Toronto film festival, three years later than planned when the project was announced in 2003.

Still, Handling feels confident he will have the last laugh, defying naysayers who predicted this building would never go up.

[Taller, Better]

Still, Handling feels confident he will have the last laugh, defying naysayers who predicted this building would never go up.

Those naysayers have been busy these past few years.

[Martinsizon]

some new renderings: http://p083.ezboard.com/ftorontoskyscraperforumfrm4.showMessageRange?topicID=5125.topic&start=61&stop=77

[Taller, Better]

^^^ Thanks for that link! Interesting!

[riley]

cassius: i've never seen this $1000 deposit on any other project. If cityplace has a similar policy, they never include it in any of their regular advertising. I've registered for more than half of the cityplace condos and never been asked to pay a dime.

but it will be interesting to see what kind of reception this building receives when it is finally unveiled.

[valantino]

^registration is meaningless

its about viewing schedule

[Ed007Toronto]

I've registered for more than half of the cityplace condos and never been asked to pay a dime.

City Place has pre-launch viewings for previous owners and bigger investors. City Place requires a $500 deposit for these special viewings to ensure only serious buyers/investors attend. That's why you will often find a building half sold when sales are finally opened up to the general public.

[Martinsizon]

is anyone here a inner circle member??/

[LordMandeep]

yep in the inner circle of the 12 knights of king Arthur.

[riley]

Oh okay, i had no idea that condos did that. I heard that the festival tower was having a preview this coming friday, Sept. 8. Maybe that's for the 'inner circle'.

[G_DOG]

the rendering of the building is up at the site

[ratoronto]

so Inner Circle sales started Sept. 8th (as per above article), but when will sales be opened to the general public? where will the sales centre be constructed? ... or they might have no need for public sales/sales centre depending on how many inner circle purchasers they have...

Every time I walk past King and John this surface parking lot makes me angry..... ahhh... can't wait to see this tower u/c

[valantino]

won't be long now

[Taller, Better]

Toronto REALLY needs this project... much moreso than any regular run of the mill condo development. TIFF is extremely important to our city and this will help it grow.

[urban 2.0]

I'm actually against the festival tower - what I don't like is the shadow it will cast on John Street and the areas to the North, Keep the Film Centre, kill the tower.

[phunky]

who cares about shadows? especially in this area which is more active in the evening/night anyway.

[Taller, Better]

I'm actually against the festival tower - what I don't like is the shadow it will cast on John Street and the areas to the North, Keep the Film Centre, kill the tower.

What do you think is paying for the Film Centre? The tower, of course. Shadow? Pfffft. May help prevent skin cancer.

[neilio]

I'm actually against the festival tower - what I don't like is the shadow it will cast on John Street and the areas to the North, Keep the Film Centre, kill the tower.

why are you even on this this website lmao??
Your the ONLY Toronto Forumer ive ever known to complain about things and have concerns simular to those of NIMBY's..honestly dude, against a building because of a shadow?!?!?!?!?!
Well...if its the man eating shadow of Doom i suppose you might have abit more of an argument...now i must decide....Tall building and man eating shadow of doom or neither...i think its worth the risk ill take the building.

[urban 2.0]

why are you even on this this website lmao??
Your the ONLY Toronto Forumer ive ever known to complain about things and have concerns simular to those of NIMBY's..honestly dude, against a building because of a shadow?!?!?!?!?!
Well...if its the man eating shadow of Doom i suppose you might have abit more of an argument...now i must decide....Tall building and man eating shadow of doom or neither...i think its worth the risk ill take the building.

... there's people that get excited when they learn that new big box stores are opening at their local farm.

I believe in liveable cities - there are good places for skyscrapers and there's bad places for skyscrapers - John and King - isn't the place for a 40+ building.

[InTheBeach]

Queen and John is no place for this development.

King and John on the NW corner is OK IMO.

[monkeyronin]

Anyone know how much of that parking lot this is going to take up? because that is one massive lot right there..

Oh, and Urban, it is right acrosss the street from a 20 storey building and just down the road from other massive skyscrapers? its not like this is some 150m building going up in the middle of a field. oh, and all building cast shadows on streets - well, except for sprawling mcmansions of course. even if it was just a podium there would still be a shadow on John.

[valantino]

(urban may hate this)

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a234/mark3333/map33.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a234/mark3333/map44.jpg


red - festival
blue - 25 storey residential proposal
green - 18 storey Hilton Garden Suites
pink - 7 storey Templar Hotel

[monkeyronin]

that looks good. thanks :)

[p5archit]

I wonder what will eventually happen to the corner of John and Adelaide? That entire space, even with the Festival Hall and the tower is still massive..I used to live right across the street and continually wondered about how long it would be before this valuable piece of propertay would be develop-ed? Obviously we will have to wait and see..

p5

[Martinsizon]

Is this the 25 story building you are refering to:
http://www.urbandb.com/canada/ontario/toronto/21_widmer_street/
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n233/Martinsizon/Toronto%20Condominiums/21.jpg

i think it takes something away from the featval tower

[Canadian Chocho]

It should be taller, I'm not just saying that because I strive for tall buildings, but in my opinion it would look better taller.

[valantino]

^the bulkiness is definitely not very flattering (check that: I don't know if the bulk is the problem I'm finding with it)

Obviously we will have to wait and see..

not too long I imagine

[Mike in TO]

I partially agree with Urban 2.0. I'm somewhat supportive of the tower with a few reservations about material quality etc.

It is the south side of King St. from John to Spadina that should be given heritage designation and preserved from potential development. The danger is that Festival will set a precedent for the development of high-rises on the south side of the street. The city has rejected M5V for these reasons, although that tower will likely be approved by the OMB (great tower, wrong location). It would be a shame for Toronto to lose one of if not the most vibrant 19th century streatch of 3s buildings - probably the most vibrant stretch of restaurants in the city. Being in the entertainment district it would be a bit like killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

Shadowing is not much of an issue with Fesitval Tower (for valid reasons, not the knee-jerk as long as its tall nothing else matters doom and gloom responses posted earlier). The sun in Toronto is located to the south generally, so shadows would mostly be on the north side of the structure and not cause long dark shadows on King St. any large structures built on the south side of King would create long dark shadows for most of the day. Therefore the ideal long-term build out for King would be to protect the vibrant and historic nature of the south side of King from John to Spadina and direct high-rise development to the north side of King St.

[monkeyronin]

It is the south side of King St. from John to Spadina that should be given heritage designation and preserved from potential development. The danger is that Festival will set a precedent for the development of high-rises on the south side of the street. The city has rejected M5V for these reasons, although that tower will likely be approved by the OMB (great tower, wrong location). It would be a shame for Toronto to lose one of if not the most vibrant 19th century streatch of 3s buildings - probably the most vibrant stretch of restaurants in the city. Being in the entertainment district it would be a bit like killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

but the thing is, they're NOT destroying the nice lowrises. they're getting rid of parking lots and an automotive garage. do you like parking lots and garages on such a vibrant and important street?

[Mike in TO]

^ No I don't, but when those parking lots and garages are replaced by structures that do not fit the context of the existing pattern of development they create pockets of high-rises between the heritage retail buildings. Which creates planning precident for those buildings to be demolished and replaced by towers.

It is a bit like the domino effect, the low lying fruit (parking lots) are picked first as they are easiest to gain planning approval. Once the dominos have started to fall there is less and less planning/heritage rational for preserving the higher quality existing structures. The high quality successful row of restaurants will not have maintained their integrity if pockets of 30s towers are threaded into the urban fabric.

Those parking lots and garages on the south side of King should be replaced by new structures which respect the urban context of the street. By compromosing on these lots simple because "they are parking lots", you are actually opening the door for the future demolition and replacement of the 19th century streetscape.

There are plenty of other excellent locations in the downtown core for large towers - this small district is not one of them.

[Taller, Better]

"There are plenty of other excellent locations in the downtown core for large towers - this small district is not one of them". The land for the Festival Tower was donated. That is why it is going up here. Without that donation, there would not be a Festival Tower. You can't just say things like there are plenty of other places for every project.

[Mike in TO]

^ I'm talking about the south side of King NOT the north side.

[Taller, Better]

^ I'm talking about the south side of King NOT the north side.

No, I mean you have to realize it was a specific parcel of land donated for use by the TIFF. It doesn't make sense to say it could be built lots of other places. That is an argument that could be used by anyone, for any project who opposes it in any way.

[Mike in TO]

I know the land was donated by Ivan Reitman.

The points I was making about the south side of the street were that those parcels should be protected from high-rise development. It is not an arguement that "could be used by anyone, for any project who opposes it in any way".... it is a specific arguement for a specific heritage district in the city that cannot be re-built or replicated. If the rules are strengthened and enforced prospective developers would have to look for other opportunities. Once the rules are bent or weakened the rest of the block becomes fair game.

Taller, better - I'm referring to the SOUTH side of King St.

Also just because someone donates a parcel of land for a specific purpose doesn't mean that the proposed use should not be subject to the scutiny of land-use policies and laws. The rule book doesn't go out the window just because someone donates something.

[Waterloo_Guy]

Honestly, Mike, I just don't agree. Although I don't want the existing buildings to be torn up, the vacant lots in the area are prime locations for large office and residential development. TIFF isn't exactly going into a lowrise area, it's going right across from Metro Hall, and not too far from RBC/Ritz/Simco.

Westward expansion is happening, I think for the best.

[Mike in TO]

I'm not saying preserve the entire area. I'm suggesting that pockets (i.e. the south side of King Street from John to Spadina) be preserved. I would say the same for both sides of Queen adjacent to the street (the City is currently studying options to designate Queen a heritage district to prevent high rise development).

As far as the other vacant lots throughout the area - that would be the natural direction of the westward expansion of the CBD. The only development currently proposed in the area that is a cause for concern is M5V - which is unfortunate as the tower has a great design, I know the builder well and if it goes ahead it will be well executed, IMO it's just too bad that it is situated on a site that would better accomodate a low to mid-rise structure to maintain the character and integrity of one of Toronto's best stretches of restaurants/entertainment. As far as the north side of King goes - build away!

[KGB]

I agree that some sensitivity to the old built form must be taken into consideration. But I also think this area (the old fashion/warehouse district, now theentertainment district) is best suited to having the existing brick structures fixed up nicely as offices/lofts, plus smaller infil, plus nice point towers in that Clewes style, while tends to fit in well with the old stuff, while maintaining a fresh new modern approach. I think some sites are best suited to new buildings that fit in with the old scale and materials.

This is combination is working well in other similarily old industrial areas (like Liberty), and will be even better in the old fashion district, as the old stuff is very plentiful, and will remain the dominating built form no matter how many infil projects go up.






KGB

[InTheBeach]

I agree that some sensitivity to the old built form must be taken into consideration. But I also think this area (the old fashion/warehouse district, now theentertainment district) is best suited to having the existing brick structures fixed up nicely as offices/lofts, plus smaller infil, plus nice point towers in that Clewes style, while tends to fit in well with the old stuff, while maintaining a fresh new modern approach. I think some sites are best suited to new buildings that fit in with the old scale and materials.

This is combination is working well in other similarily old industrial areas (like Liberty), and will be even better in the old fashion district, as the old stuff is very plentiful, and will remain the dominating built form no matter how many infil projects go up.






KGB

A pretty good assessment of the situation.

To agree with M in TO, let's not knock any of these gems down (which pretty much refers to any of the old stuff).

[Taller, Better]

Also just because someone donates a parcel of land for a specific purpose doesn't mean that the proposed use should not be subject to the scutiny of land-use policies and laws. The rule book doesn't go out the window just because someone donates something.


Who is throwing out the rule book? What makes you say this will not be subject to the same scrutiny of land-use policies and laws as Shangri-La, Ritz, etc...? I don't think anyone is asking for laws to be broken, and I don't think anyone wants to see King or Queen W become a Bay St canyon. But each and every project must be evaluated individually on its own merit.

I would love for a sugar daddy to come along and plop down 50 million bucks,so they could build the TIFF centre without a condo, but that is not going to happen, is it?.The future growth of TIFF hinges on it getting a permanent home. Toronto benefits in more than just financial ways from the Toronto International Film Festival. It is helping to put us on the map. Either we work with TIFF to turn this parking lot into a future home, or we do as Urban2 wants to: just say NO.

[urban 2.0]

Who is throwing out the rule book? What makes you say this will not be subject to the same scrutiny of land-use policies and laws as Shangri-La, Ritz, etc...? I don't think anyone is asking for laws to be broken, and I don't think anyone wants to see King or Queen W become a Bay St canyon. But each and every project must be evaluated individually on its own merit.

I would love for a sugar daddy to come along and plop down 50 million bucks,so they could build the TIFF centre without a condo, but that is not going to happen, is it?.The future growth of TIFF hinges on it getting a permanent home. Toronto benefits in more than just financial ways from the Toronto International Film Festival. It is helping to put us on the map. Either we work with TIFF to turn this parking lot into a future home, or we do as Urban2 wants to: just say NO.

... but this city is turning many streets into canyons - and each time its an "exception" - look at the building across from the Varsity arena - totally out of scale with the houses behind.

Now we'll have a tower on King/John - and the next developer will say - "well you made an exception for them ... so please OMB.

Buildings like Hudson or RoCP suit that part of town, I just think TIFF tower will be too tall for what stands behind it.

And I'm not a NIMBY - I didn't side with the people that complained about the shadows from the Paramount.

My vision of Toronto is more Paris like then Manhattan.

[neilio]

... but this city is turning many streets into canyons - and each time its an "exception" - look at the building across from the Varsity arena - totally out of scale with the houses behind.

Now we'll have a tower on King/John - and the next developer will say - "well you made an exception for them ... so please OMB.

Buildings like Hudson or RoCP suit that part of town, I just think TIFF tower will be too tall for what stands behind it.

And I'm not a NIMBY - I didn't side with the people that complained about the shadows from the Paramount.

My vision of Toronto is more Paris like then Manhattan.

Paris?!?! why would your vision include anything from PARIS?!:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

[Taller, Better]

... but this city is turning many streets into canyons - and each time its an "exception" - look at the building across from the Varsity arena - totally out of scale with the houses behind.

Now we'll have a tower on King/John - and the next developer will say - "well you made an exception for them ... so please OMB.

Buildings like Hudson or RoCP suit that part of town, I just think TIFF tower will be too tall for what stands behind it.

And I'm not a NIMBY - I didn't side with the people that complained about the shadows from the Paramount.

My vision of Toronto is more Paris like then Manhattan.

Are you in favour of any high rise condo projects in this city? I remember you were very opposed to City Place as it is marketing to the dreaded suburbanites and apparently we do not want them moving downtown. When we visit a city like Paris, the temptation is to wish Toronto was like Paris, but we have to be realistic. The main reason Paris is so fabulous is because of the luxurious architecture from centuries ago, and luxurious city planning from that period that would not be possible today. Toronto is not Paris, and never will be but we can take some ideas from Paris and Manhattan and a host of other cities, and try to incorporate them here. The key is not to be dogmatic about it, though, or try to recreate any other city, as I repeat we will never be like Paris no matter how much mixed height/useage that we insist upon. Our situation in North America is quite different, and besides, surely our goal is for Toronto to be in some ways unique. As for the Bay St corridor, I can think of no other street where this type of high density residential makes more sense. Bay St never had the character of Queen or King St to begin with, and it provides a large population to use the services on nearby Yonge Street. I say in the case of the TIFF project, if we are dogmatic and say NO that we will be doing much more harm than good. Every project needs to be examined on its own merits.

[Waterloo_Guy]

My vision of Toronto is more Paris like then Manhattan.

OK, this is just nimby bs. I'm really getting sick of it.

[valantino]

Is it even possible to go from Vienna surrounded by Los Angeles to Paris?

[Taller, Better]

Is it even possible to go from Vienna surrounded by Los Angeles to Paris?

LOL!! So, Valantino... when do you relocate to Calgary?

[Dino Domingo]

OK, this is just nimby bs. I'm really getting sick of it.


LOL! You are so right. It's utter Bull!

[urban 2.0]

... nimby - cause I prefer good development over crap? I'll take Paris over LA, Boston or Chicago. Towers have their place, just not everywhere.

[Taller, Better]

^^Paris is a "World Class City".. and you are vehement that Toronto is NO WORLD CLASS CITY. Seeing that world classiness is paramount to you, rather than trying to change Toronto into Paris, have you given any thought to perhaps relocating to Paris? :)

[Waterloo_Guy]

Good idea! I was about to make a similar suggestion.

[InTheBeach]

Paris, or like Paris should never be our goal. Who cares about how that would not be possible in this day and age. The question would be why? Who wants to live in a museum. Paris is trapped in time in many ways. That is not a good thing. Ask a 20 year old living in Paris what he thinks of it. Better yet, ask a 20 year old Muslim what he thinks of it.

I agree with Urban that we should be saving the old stock that we have, but see nothing wrong with smart, progressive developments being right next to them. The key word being smart. If this was a CityPlace style condo, I would agree, but this is design is a winner in my books.

[Taller, Better]

^^ Well said. I'm probably more protective of our historics than anyone else on this thread, but this is a parking lot for heaven sakes... I say good on 'em for having the gumption to improve the film festival despite the unsurprising opposition it will face.

[CrazyCanuck]

Paris, or like Paris should never be our goal. Who cares about how that would not be possible in this day and age. The question would be why? Who wants to live in a museum. Paris is trapped in time in many ways. That is not a good thing. Ask a 20 year old living in Paris what he thinks of it. Better yet, ask a 20 year old Muslim what he thinks of it.

I agree with Urban that we should be saving the old stock that we have, but see nothing wrong with smart, progressive developments being right next to them. The key word being smart. If this was a CityPlace style condo, I would agree, but this is design is a winner in my books.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013417.php

French police union: Muslims are waging civil war against us

Remember those "civil riots" in France? The ones that Prince Al-Walid of Saudi Arabia compelled Rupert Murdoch to have Fox stop calling "Muslim riots"? The ones that the learned talking heads assured us had nothing to do with Islam? While they were receiving the most press attention they ever got, in November 2005, you could have gotten the real story here and here. You'll note that I began that second article, "Has an intifada begun in France — an all-out jihad?" It's interesting that in this piece the police union uses the same word -- intifada. Now the truth is beginning to come out in the mainstream media, almost a year after you could have read it at Jihad Watch.

"Muslims are waging civil war against us, claims police union," by David Rennie in the Telegraph, with thanks to KM:

Radical Muslims in France's housing estates are waging an undeclared "intifada" against the police, with violent clashes injuring an average of 14 officers each day. As the interior ministry said that nearly 2,500 officers had been wounded this year, a police union declared that its members were "in a state of civil war" with Muslims in the most depressed "banlieue" estates which are heavily populated by unemployed youths of north African origin.

It said the situation was so grave that it had asked the government to provide police with armoured cars to protect officers in the estates, which are becoming no-go zones.

The number of attacks has risen by a third in two years. Police representatives told the newspaper Le Figaro that the "taboo" of attacking officers on patrol has been broken.

Instead, officers – especially those patrolling in pairs or small groups – faced attacks as soon as they tried to arrest locals....

Of course, the French are reluctant to face what is happening, and many will no doubt continue to believe that more welfare benefits will solve the problem, but some seem to be more realistic:

Michel Thoomis, the secretary general of the hardline Action Police trade union, has written to Mr Sarkozy warning of an "intifada" on the estates and demanding that officers be given armoured cars in the most dangerous areas.

He said yesterday: "We are in a state of civil war, orchestrated by radical Islamists. This is not a question of urban violence any more, it is an intifada, with stones and Molotov cocktails. You no longer see two or three youths confronting police, you see whole tower blocks emptying into the streets to set their 'comrades' free when they are arrested."

He added: "We need armoured vehicles and water cannon. They are the only things that can disperse crowds of hundreds of people who are trying to kill police and burn their vehicles."

But the state of denial also continues:

However, Gerard Demarcq, of the largest police unions, Alliance, dismissed talk of an "intifada" as representing the views of only a minority.

Mr Demarcq said that the increased attacks on officers were proof that the policy of "retaking territory" from criminal gangs was working.


That was a bit off topic. But just to prove a point. Looks can be deceiving. Paris is beautiful but when you hear things like this it makes Toronto look very good. So imo a good mix of old and new is needed, new to look where we are headed but the old to look where we came from.

[urban 2.0]

Paris, or like Paris should never be our goal. Who cares about how that would not be possible in this day and age. The question would be why? Who wants to live in a museum. Paris is trapped in time in many ways. That is not a good thing. Ask a 20 year old living in Paris what he thinks of it. Better yet, ask a 20 year old Muslim what he thinks of it.


.... what???? What type of jump is that?
Clearly you lack understanding of our world - the Muslims in France don't want to be French. The French only like people who are French. It's as simple as that. When Canada gets a larger number of people that don't like our culture, our values, our people, we too will inherit the same problems.

Back to the real topic - Paris is not a museum. Paris (as are most European cities) are based on 4 - 6 - 8 storey buildings that are tight to the road. With greenspace behind them.

Toronto has 100s of KM of Strip malls and vacant space next to major arteries. My vision for Toronto is more high density low rise buildings. Don't think it's too radical.

[Canadian Chocho]

Paris? New York? Why can't we just be Toronto? Do our own thing instead of copying other "World Class Cities".

[Homer J. Simpson]

^There is nothing wrong with learning from what others have discovered works the most effectively.

[Taller, Better]

We can and must learn from what has been done in city planning in cities all over the world. This includes Paris, but people must be realistic and realise that the simple act of maintaining areas of high density low rise buildings ( which is very desireable to maintain our older neighbourhoods) will not literally make us much like Paris. It is simply concepts that we are importing and adapting to our city and I hope people do not develop irrational expectations from that. We will not literally turn Toronto into Paris, or New York, or London, but sometimes ideas can help make us a more liveable place. I, for one, have no desire for our city to pine to be another city.. I rather like our city to be its own unique creation. Rather obviously if I wanted Toronto to be wholly "European", I would have simply moved to Europe. This will shock a few people here, but believe it or not there are actually concepts from Toronto that might make other world cities a better place to live, too!

[Buster]

It's wonderful reading posts from Torontonians who care about their city and its this kind of discussion that'll help us build the city we want.

I'm all for Parisian streetscapes with medium density buildings lining major avenues, but high rises have their place too. The TIFF podium at King and John would provide a seemless streetwall on the north side of King from Simcoe to the (god awful) Holiday Inn and that's good enough for me. The proposed building's proportions won't overwhelm the street like the Sheraton Centre.

To this day, it surpises me to see how an elegant building like Spire can rise well over 400 feet without belittling its neighbours. With proper planning, the TIFF and One Bedford can achieve the same effect in their respective neighbourhoods.

That's what I call good urban design!

[KGB]

Regarding the discussion about comparing Toronto to NYC or Paris reminds me of a story by Doug Saunders I read in this months Toronto Life mag. It defines Toronto not as comparable to New York or Paris, but ..."a city of trajectories that isn't defined by its core, but the people who move through it"Here's a few excerpts......


"To stroll the cleansed streets of the world's major centres today is to visit a Madame Tussauds's of the urban past. The great cities of the world, to a large extent, have become museums devoted to their former selves. In Paris and Rome, this is entirely the case: Those cities are devoted to their own back story. They exist as centres of government and as emblems of their own continuity, with little space left for the present.

It is also true of Manhattan in the post-Rudy Giuliani years and the London of the Ken Livingstone era. The second largest industries in both cities, is tourism, and both spend huge sums of money trying to resemble what they once were. You walk their streets and you feel time freeze around you.Others want to follow this lead. The Eueopean Union doles out billions of euros in grants each year to help other european cities find their mythic past, suspend it in aspice, and serve it on a silver platter to visitors. From Tallinn to Lisbon, the city is becoming a beautiful but lifeless artifact.

Efforts to create a city-museum district in Toronto, such as those conducted around St Lawrence Market or in the Distillery District, have generally been scanty and unsuccessful. This is partly because toronto's crucial historic, formative period is still taking place....It doesn need its bricks sandblasted yet. People visit, when they do, to see the live, actual culture of Toronto, not its fossilized origins.

In the city of trajectories, the pleasure lies entirely in the human experience: there's no point in hanging around and looking at the buildings. Class structures become highly permeable, cultural barriers porous. Life is a constant felicity of unlikely juxtapositions and sidewalk collisions. Guidebooks are almost instantly obsolete.Toronto undergoes transformations, and in the process glibly destroys its own memories, routinely bulldozing its storied watering holes and legendary hotels and turning its culturally meaningful districts into high-rent malls. Just try to find Spadina of the 50's, the Yorkville of the 60's or the Queen West of the 80's: there's no trace.

At the same time, there seems to be two or three interesting new neighbourhoods emerging every year, each of them the result of 10,000 acts of self-invention: Little Persia gets discovered, the groovy hinterland of Keele and Dundas becomes an artistic hub, mini-Moscow comes of age.

Such events become our landmarks, allowing us to ignore all the ugly buildings and ill-thought public squares. In the Torontonian mind, a bland and seamy intersection takes on the power of a Place de la Concorde or a Rockerfeller Centre, because it has become a palimpsest, an unshaken Etch a Sketch, containing all our memories of the things it was before."






KGB

[Taller, Better]

^^^ Very cool article, KGB.. thanks for posting! I've not read TL in donkey's years, but may go out and get a copy.

[p5archit]

^^Funny enough- i was just talking about something quite similar the other day. I live in Vienna, which is one of Europe's cultural centres and is probably on the top of the list when it comes to culturalpreservation- the city's cultural core has been designated a UN-Heritage site since the 1980's and everywhere one goes within close proximity of the main core, you can will come across a freeze frame in time. Its amazing to say the least, how well things have been preserved, but it often feels like being in a museum-.

The thing is that cities like, Paris, Rome and Vienna- etc., already have their heritage in place- they have already experienced, to the most part, their cultural beginnings, evolutions and revolutions, such as we are experiencing to some extent today in Toronto. The large capital expenditures have already been made and what remains is the cost of refurbishing or renovating..This however, can be quite costly as well, but the initial chunks are already in place and need only to maintained properly. To the most part, so much of this wouldn't be possible today for these cities and as it was stated in the article, many of these cities live their present lives in the past.

Toronto, I explain to my friends here, is not even 150 years old and yet it has grown from a small town into a very large healthy urban centre. There is an abundance of life in Toronto, something which is lacking in Vieanna- as gorgeous a city as it may be, the Viennese are very inward facing, like a lot of their buildings- there is little room for external life. Toronto, on the other hand has had so little time to really develop into something substantial and in my opinion, Toronto is a lot like an awkward teenager, trying to find its path- searching for its identity..Toronto is still too young to really try and put its heritage on display- as the article states- something i tend to agree with.

p5

[Taller, Better]

Strangely, though... the same thing happens in North America. Cities can either relate more to their past or to their future. Boston, for example, markets itself almost exclusively with its history and you do get a bit of the "museum" feel when you walk through it. New York City, on the other hand has always sort of shrugged its shoulders about its history and focused ferociously on the future. In Canada, Montreal very much markets itself on its history, and to a certain extent coasts on it while Toronto focuses on its future. Toronto takes it to an extreme, however, and virtually ignores what history it has (going back to the fort built here in the 1740's) almost to the point of indifference.

[Buster]

Toronto's relative youth gives me hope. . .our city's story is being written by us!

[InTheBeach]

Toronto's relative youth gives me hope. . .our city's story is being written by us!

Yes. This is a great point. It makes this a fascinating place to live, vs. visit.

[valantino]

"Montreal very much markets itself on its history"

because their economy has underpreforming for decades

I doubt history was much of a consideration back when hundreds of blocks were destroyed for future highways, towers erected taller than anything in Chicago (unconfirmed), a second airport built which would never reach its potential and hosting two of the largest worldwide event

See it with London, UK as well - huge shift in attitude during the current economic boom from the centuries of declining world influence

[Taller, Better]

"Montreal very much markets itself on its history"

because their economy has underpreforming for decades

I doubt history was much of a consideration back when hundreds of blocks were destroyed for future highways, towers erected taller than anything in Chicago (unconfirmed), a second airport built which would never reach its potential and hosting two of the largest worldwide event

See it with London, UK as well - huge shift in attitude during the current economic boom from the centuries of declining world influence

There is a strong danger in living in the past.... if a city has a good reputation and is stagnating, it is tempting to just keep a hypnotic old romantic reputation alive without actually doing anything to justify it. Toronto has always carried with it a lot of negative baggage... people label it ugly, cold, etc....(even a surprisingly high percentage of its own citizens) and for a very long time it has not been the beneficiary of government largesse, so in an essence it has had to "try harder" and absolutely "work harder". Perhaps as such it has emerged a stronger, healthier city because it has had to fight hard for everything it has achieved.

The London attitude you speak of strikes me very much as being similar to that of Calgary. A kind of "payback" time.... with lots of swaggering bravado.

[camel_trainer]

Yes. This is a great point. It makes this a fascinating place to live, vs. visit.

Yes. This is very true. Tough to market something that is still discovering what it is. It is very exciting (and frustrating) to see it progress, though. Two steps forward, one step back. I guess this is to be expected.

[KGB]

There is a strong danger in living in the past.... if a city has a good reputation and is stagnating, it is tempting to just keep a hypnotic old romantic reputation alive without actually doing anything to justify it.


On the other hand, there isn't anything wrong with it either...as long as it isn't your only means of outside interest. Like anything, you need to be diversified to survive. History is a wonderful thing....people do use it as a major motivation to visit cities...Rome, Paris, Venice, Greece, etc.

But there is also ironly in it as well....the old centre of Paris appeals to people, but it itself was part of a modernizing process....there is no medievil Paris...it was a horrific slum which was demolished and rebuilt in the latter half of the 19th century, under Haussman. Ever heard of the seven ages of Paris? Throughout history, Paris has rebuilt and reinvented itself many times...it just happens to be going through a stagnant period at the moment, relying on it's beauty to attract people (and it does it very well, bcause it is very beautiful).

Meanwhile, Toronto is deep in its reinventing stage....has been for about 50 years, and it doesn't seem to have hit its peak yet. What will come out of it, who knows....but I think it's the journey, rather than the destination that is what is most enjoyable to experience.

So go stroll the streets of Paris...cruise down the Grand Canal....watch the sun set of the Great Pyramids...and walk around the Parthenon. These are all worthwhile things to do. But so is being a part of the everyday life of a city like Toronto, where you can be a small part of something happening, rather than looking at the result of that process elsewhere.

It's all good.






KGB

[Taller, Better]

But Paris is not stagnating... a beautiful city like Paris cannot help but celebrate its past. In fact I wasn't thinking of European cities at all. But to avoid City vs City brawls I think I had better leave it as a general concept.

[urban 2.0]

There is a strong danger in living in the past.... if a city has a good reputation and is stagnating, it is tempting to just keep a hypnotic old romantic reputation alive without actually doing anything to justify it. Toronto has always carried with it a lot of negative baggage... people label it ugly, cold, etc....(even a surprisingly high percentage of its own citizens) and for a very long time it has not been the beneficiary of government largesse, so in an essence it has had to "try harder" and absolutely "work harder". Perhaps as such it has emerged a stronger, healthier city because it has had to fight hard for everything it has achieved.

The London attitude you speak of strikes me very much as being similar to that of Calgary. A kind of "payback" time.... with lots of swaggering bravado.


... there's also a danger of wiping the past off the city.

Look at cities like Oshawa that have torn down virtually every building (commercial) over 50 years old. Your left with nothing, a city with no history is a city with no soul.

For example is Toronto better off saving the Loblaws building or better off tearing it down to see a new building built.

You can't save everything, but surely we can have some old buildings that aren't just facades.

[Taller, Better]

... there's also a danger of wiping the past off the city.

Look at cities like Oshawa that have torn down virtually every building (commercial) over 50 years old. Your left with nothing, a city with no history is a city with no soul.

For example is Toronto better off saving the Loblaws building or better off tearing it down to see a new building built.

You can't save everything, but surely we can have some old buildings that aren't just facades.

I am not talking about saving, or destroying what old architecture we have left. Do you know that Toronto destroyed fewer heritage designated buildings since 1960 than Montreal, Vancouver and a third city that I cannot remember ( I think it was Calgary)? I am only saying that some cities, like New York, focus on the future and don't market themselves for their history. Thus, very few people know that New York City has some of the oldest buildings standing in America.. older than even Boston or Philly. Going back to 1650. In a similar way, Toronto focuses on its future, and building its heritage now, whereas a city like Montreal markets itself on its history, and seems more content to just ride that. I think Toronto should pay more attention to its history... it missed the chance to celebrate the 250th anniversary of the first fort being built here by the French, or the 200th anniversary of permanent settlement by Europeans. Whereas Montreal did a huge song and dance about ten years ago and raked in tourists all summer for some anniversary or other. There is a happy medium between respecting your past, and working hard to improve the future. By all means we have to hang on to whatever good historical architecture we can but we are building much of our architectural heritage right now.

[rbt]

"Working drawings have begun, completion scheduled for April 2007. Construction schedules are being finalized. Gen Cont is not accepting Sub trade pricing. Excavation expected February 2007."

Courtesy of Reed Construction Data.

[phunky]

"Working drawings have begun, completion scheduled for April 2007. Construction schedules are being finalized. Gen Cont is not accepting Sub trade pricing. Excavation expected February 2007."

Courtisy of Reed Construction Data.

*edit* oops apparently lack of sleep causes your brain to stop functioning properly.

[valantino]

don't you mean 2 months ;)

drawings ... my friend

[DrT]

Great news that start of construction is imminent.
This facility is really vital for the continued growth of the TIFF as a cultural institution in TO, ie., this ain't just another condo project.

[phunky]

don't you mean 2 months ;)

drawings ... my friend

my excuse is that it was 11 am in the morning and I hadn't slept yet. :nuts:

[globetrekker]

my excuse is that it was 11 am in the morning and I hadn't slept yet. :nuts:

lol @ the nuts face

[thryve]

In the book "uTOpia", the introduction is excellent... and it describes an interesting dialogue a contributing writer (?) had while in Paris, announcing to his friends that he was moving to Toronto. It is funny to hear how Paris is personified as a celebrity out of style or something alone those lines-- But while not insulting Paris necessarily, it simply explains how Toronto is living its history now, AND making new history every day. (And we SSC Toronto people are experiencing that to the fullest!). Poor Paris... well... its history is ...well ... history! (Which is fine for some people... no bashing here. But I'll take Toronto, thankya.)

[Tuscani01]

In the book "uTOpia", the introduction is excellent... and it describes an interesting dialogue a contributing writer (?) had while in Paris, announcing to his friends that he was moving to Toronto. It is funny to hear how Paris is personified as a celebrity out of style or something alone those lines-- But while not insulting Paris necessarily, it simply explains how Toronto is living its history now, AND making new history every day. (And we SSC Toronto people are experiencing that to the fullest!). Poor Paris... well... its history is ...well ... history! (Which is fine for some people... no bashing here. But I'll take Toronto, thankya.)

I just started reading it the other day. The intro was pretty good. I think we all need to live somewhere else for a bit in order to appreciate what we have in Toronto.

[Filip]

I enjoyed that book! Big time!

[globetrekker]

I was just looking at the rendering for the tower and imagining how it would look if the front of it (the tower, no podium) was concave. Would you all prefer that?

[current]

Today I walked by the Festival Tower site and the parking lot is now closed. It is surrounded by temporary wire fencing.

[Waterloo_Guy]

Have they been selling units in the tower yet?

[p5archit]

I saw that they have changed the billboard announcing the building- there is a large rendering posted now as well. I wonder where they stand with regards to sales? Is the fencing any indication that they are going to be building soon?

p5

[davidmillerismyboss]

I believe (as per today's t star article) the fencing was for the archeological digging going on on the site of toronto's first hospital (circa 1820.) an interesting read into king and john's past. wonder what the hotel on the site looked like? wonder what they'll be digging up on the site in 2207: condo contracts and martini glasses?

[circuitboy84]

Just having the fence up gets me excited. Clearly if they can afford a fence, they can afford the entire festival centre, right?

[Jaye101]

huh?

[DrT]

I believe (as per today's t star article) the fencing was for the archeological digging going on on the site of toronto's first hospital (circa 1820.) an interesting read into king and john's past. wonder what the hotel on the site looked like? wonder what they'll be digging up on the site in 2207: condo contracts and martini glasses?

The link is thestar.com/article/173278.
There are alot of interesting artifacts from TO's first hospital that should be preserved.

[circuitboy84]

huh?
Its called sarcasm - guess it didn't translate to the web huh? ^^

[Jaye101]

Oh, HA!

[InTheBeach]

I believe (as per today's t star article) the fencing was for the archeological digging going on on the site of toronto's first hospital (circa 1820.) an interesting read into king and john's past. wonder what the hotel on the site looked like? wonder what they'll be digging up on the site in 2207: condo contracts and martini glasses?

I've been in a "hate the star" mood lately. I find that the only one I can read is Bill Carrigan in the business section. You should read his articles, really. He's good. I've made lots of money thanks to him. Not sure about the rest of the business section though. In all, the star is somewhere between a group hug and a stinky dutch oven. Maybe I should read this dig thing, but don't feel like a historical hug right now.

(LOL - 666. I'll stop now!)

[Taller, Better]

^^ You devil, you!
Fie on you. Get thee to a nunnery.

[Martinsizon]

Construction Begins For Festival Centre
2/1/2007 — Festival Centre

Toronto - Construction for TIFFG's Festival Centre begins today, marking the launch of the Group's landmark destination facility dedicated to the moving image. Fencing has now been placed around the perimeter of the King and John Streets' site, with full hoarding to be installed by early March. An official groundbreaking ceremony co-presented by the King and John Festival Corporation is planned for spring to celebrate and acknowledge all those who have participated in the project to-date.

"This truly is a momentous occasion for TIFFG and all our partners involved in this project," said Piers Handling, Director and CEO of the Toronto International Film Festival Group. "We have eagerly awaited this day since launching our campaign in 2003. Seeing all the activity on the site realizes a dream for this organization and Toronto. Once completed, the building will be a state-of-the-art structure filled with filmmakers, cinephiles, children, educators, arts enthusiasts, international tourists, and the best programming in the world."

Designed by world-renowned architectural firm KPMB, Festival Centre is a dynamic, open and inviting facility located on the northwest corner of King and John Streets. The site consists of TIFFG's Festival Centre, a five-storey podium building housing the Group's operations, a gallery, five cinemas, educational suites and a film reference library, and Festival Tower, a 37-story residential condominium. The project is a co-development between TIFFG and the King and John Festival Corporation, comprised of The Daniels Corporation, filmmaker Ivan Reitman and the Reitman Family.

TIFFG thanks its Festival Centre founding sponsor Bell, who through an innovative marketing alliance, will name Festival Centre and retain exclusive telecom sponsorship of the Group. TIFFG also thanks its Federal and Provincial Government partners, who are each contributing $25 million towards the capital costs of Festival Centre.

The Toronto International Film Festival Group is a charitable, not-for-profit, cultural organization whose mission is to transform the way people see the world. Its vision is to lead the world in creative and cultural discovery through the moving image.

[Filip]

This was QUITE sudden.

[p5archit]

Wow- sudden is right! I didn't see it happening quite so soon (facetiously meant)...

p5

[DrT]

Construction Begins For Festival Centre
2/1/2007 — Festival Centre

Toronto - Construction for TIFFG's Festival Centre begins today, marking the launch of the Group's landmark destination facility dedicated to the moving image. Fencing has now been placed around the perimeter of the King and John Streets' site, with full hoarding to be installed by early March. An official groundbreaking ceremony co-presented by the King and John Festival Corporation is planned for spring to celebrate and acknowledge all those who have participated in the project to-date.

"This truly is a momentous occasion for TIFFG and all our partners involved in this project," said Piers Handling, Director and CEO of the Toronto International Film Festival Group. "We have eagerly awaited this day since launching our campaign in 2003. Seeing all the activity on the site realizes a dream for this organization and Toronto. Once completed, the building will be a state-of-the-art structure filled with filmmakers, cinephiles, children, educators, arts enthusiasts, international tourists, and the best programming in the world."

Designed by world-renowned architectural firm KPMB, Festival Centre is a dynamic, open and inviting facility located on the northwest corner of King and John Streets. The site consists of TIFFG's Festival Centre, a five-storey podium building housing the Group's operations, a gallery, five cinemas, educational suites and a film reference library, and Festival Tower, a 37-story residential condominium. The project is a co-development between TIFFG and the King and John Festival Corporation, comprised of The Daniels Corporation, filmmaker Ivan Reitman and the Reitman Family.

TIFFG thanks its Festival Centre founding sponsor Bell, who through an innovative marketing alliance, will name Festival Centre and retain exclusive telecom sponsorship of the Group. TIFFG also thanks its Federal and Provincial Government partners, who are each contributing $25 million towards the capital costs of Festival Centre.

The Toronto International Film Festival Group is a charitable, not-for-profit, cultural organization whose mission is to transform the way people see the world. Its vision is to lead the world in creative and cultural discovery through the moving image.

Halle frigin lluyah.:banana: :banana: Great for TO. The artefacts are safe and we can build!

[Taller, Better]

Very good news..

[Wrk_InProgress]

I assume that this is construction on the sales centre, did they even begin previewing yet ?

[Filip]

No.. this is actual tower construction.

[valantino]

the tower is going ahead without the usual pre-sales

[Homer J. Simpson]

This calls for a two banana salute. :banana: :banana:

[Waterloo_Guy]

Hold on folks, the article says the Centre is beginning construction, not the tower. And the article makes a distinction between the Centre and the tower. I don't think this is tower construction.

[Filip]

Well you can't really build one without the other...

[phunky]

festival tower is part of festival centre. it's a 2 in 1 type of deal.

[Waterloo_Guy]

Right, but they can start building the Centre even if the tower is uncertain. I don't think starting construction on the Centre commits them to the tower in any way. I wouldn't be surprised if the tower is not really under construction at this point, especially since they haven't sold any units. I hope I'm wrong.

[valantino]

Hold on folks, the article says the Centre is beginning construction, not the tower. And the article makes a distinction between the Centre and the tower. I don't think this is tower construction.

what article?

my information comes directly from the developer

especially since they haven't sold any units

its not necessary for all to pre-sell in order to finance a development - aw heck, there are quite a few developments currently going up without pre-selling - Success, 9T6, Wave, Minto Roehampton ...

[Waterloo_Guy]

Ok, it is very possible they would start construction without selling units, especially in this market. But the article I refer to (see previous page) does not say the tower is uc. Valantino, I didn't realize you had info from the developer.

[addisonwesley]

This is from Sam Javanrouh's "Daily dose of imagery". Work on the site is visible in the background, but I'm not sure if it has progressed any further since this picture was taken.

http://wvs.topleftpixel.com/photos/2007/02/cab_king-peter_tall_drill_01.jpg

[Waterloo_Guy]

Wow, cool pic!

[thryve]

Wow.. that photo actually makes the utterly out-of-place/context and overdesigned Holiday Inn look somewhat better than it really is.

(I've always thought it looks tacky and unToronto. Should've been a design for Florida or somewhere like that.)

[wheelingman]

Neat picture.

[Filip]

Hah the Holiday Inn looks so amusing.. I dunno there's something poppy about it - it's so outrageous!:D

[Taller, Better]

The Holiday Inn stands as a stark reminder that sometimes "novelty" for the sake of "novelty"..... wears thin very quickly. It was very PoMo, and Byzantine when it was built.. but very rapidly fell out of favour.

[Filip]

LOL! Byzantine! Wedding Cake!!!!

[ScrapeTheSky]

It's a cool pic, and I like that hotel. But I agree its a bit over-designed.

[SICZ24]

I actually really like that Holiday inn. It's just in the wrong location.

[Waterloo_Guy]

I actually really like that Holiday inn. It's just in the wrong location.

You mean Toronto? :lol:

[phunky]

apparently that Holiday Inn is nice to stay in. But that is neither here nor there and way off topic ;)

[Mauricio Canada]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/150/418248689_51831738bb_o.jpg

[elliot]

Thanks MC for shots in various threads.

[phunky]

Since when is Festival Tower beside the Holiday Inn?

[circuitboy84]

Since forever.^^

[phunky]

Since forever.^^
I thought it was in a completely different place. Interesting.

[Regan4000]

The Holiday Inn stands as a stark reminder that sometimes "novelty" for the sake of "novelty"..... wears thin very quickly. It was very PoMo, and Byzantine when it was built.. but very rapidly fell out of favour.

Is it not really well liked anymore? I've always thought it was neat.

Living out of province, I also didn't realize that the Festival Tower is actually underway. That is King and Peter if I'm right...?? The Festival Tower is massive, that's going to make quite an impact on the area...exciting!

[G_DOG]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/150/418248689_51831738bb_o.jpg

king and john^look at the pic

[urban 2.0]

I have an idea for Toronto -

Many cities in the world have a billboard showing their national debt - and how much it's growing per second with a running tally.

Toronto should build a billboard counting down the remaining parking lots left in the core. Hurray!

One less parking lot - and it was one of the more visable ones - along with the one on Front and Blue Jays Way.

[Taller, Better]

LOL!! Green P Parking Countdown...

[phunky]

LOL that would be cool. I love seeing this parking lots get gobbled up one by one. Or at the rate we're going it's more like two by two.

[Waterloo_Guy]

I have an idea for Toronto -

Many cities in the world have a billboard showing their national debt - and how much it's growing per second with a running tally.

Toronto should build a billboard counting down the remaining parking lots left in the core. Hurray!

One less parking lot - and it was one of the more visable ones - along with the one on Front and Blue Jays Way.

I have become Skyscraper, the destroyer of surface lots.

[KGB]

Is it not really well liked anymore? I've always thought it was neat.


Ok...so you don't care for Revell's city hall...but you DO like that Holiday Inn.

Now you know why I didn't bother wasting any time getting into it with you in the NPS thread...you are beyond hope. LOL




KGB

[valantino]

Toronto should build a billboard counting down the remaining parking lots left in the core.

amazing how many have disappear but equally amazing how many have been added albeit mostly temporary until developments start to get cancelled - when will we learn?

[Wrk_InProgress]

Ok...so you don't care for Revell's city hall...but you DO like that Holiday Inn.


I love City Hall and I kind of like the Holiday Inn. In a fourth-cousin-who-I-meet-once-a-year-and-doesn't-illicit-any-positive-or-negative-feelings kind of way.

Where do I stand on the archie simpleton index ?

[Taller, Better]

I can't stand the Holiday Inn, but I am not a fan of PoMo... it just looks so dated, and well... over the top.

[Taller, Better]

Well, it's not even pomo...it's not anything...it just looks like some kind of homebuilt design of no particular style...unless complete crap constitutes a style?
KGB


To my eye it is most definitely Post Modern, at the end of the craze... it wound up being a Byzantine nightmare. It was so over the top that it was bound to not age well... That is always the trouble with "novelty" designs.. they look a bit silly after awhile.

[Epi]

That Holiday Inn always reminded me of the Universal Studios logo. Almost as if they just based it on that.




(and I for one bow to our parking space gobbling overlords)

[urban 2.0]

That Holiday Inn always reminded me of the Universal Studios logo. Almost as if they just based it on that.




(and I for one bow to our parking space gobbling overlords)

My theory on the Holiday Inn was that the blueprints called for it to be built at Harbourfront but for what ever reason they couldn't get the permits.

So they bought the king st. site and plunked it down there.

The building clearly looks like something from Florida, that should be located on the coast next to the water.

[camel_trainer]

I kinda like the Holiday Inn, too. Quirky, not ugly. I like that they did something a bit different with it. I don't understand how people can think it's so terrible.

Anyway, I am of the mind that something distinctive, if not universally loved, is better than something totally forgettable.

[InTheBeach]

I'm neutral on the Holiday Inn, but I'm surprised when I'm touring out-of-towners around and they are almost always impressed by it.

[Wrk_InProgress]

Only if you promise to score me on your pretentious asshole index.

Well, you don't get any points for just liking city hall, because it's easy to like even without any architectural sophistication. You'd have to explain excactly why it is that the Holiday Inn doesn't offend your architectural sensibilities to determine if you suffer from a major malfunction.


KGB

LOL. I guess some of my sentiments have been echoed by urban 2.0 and camel trainer. In my mind there is some merit to being a memorable building, regardless of why one chooses to remember it.

Maybe it's just reminds me of my childhood and constantly being dumped on during afternoon recess...

Shame I don't get any points for liking City Hall. I guess at 0 points, there's nowhere to go but up, or maybe not ...

[ratoronto]

Ok, it is very possible they would start construction without selling units, especially in this market. But the article I refer to (see previous page) does not say the tower is uc. Valantino, I didn't realize you had info from the developer.

So has anybody gotten a for sure answer on exactly what is under construction.. the centre, tower, or both?? Will they stop construction after the first 5 stories of the centre? Could they be doing what that condo on Queen West did last year and building without the usual pre-sales? When/where is the sales going up?? (a source told me that it will be on the south side of Adelaide, just west of John).

[Wrk_InProgress]

So has anybody gotten a for sure answer on exactly what is under construction.. the centre, tower, or both?? Will they stop construction after the first 5 stories of the centre? Could they be doing what that condo on Queen West did last year and building without the usual pre-sales? When/where is the sales going up?? (a source told me that it will be on the south side of Adelaide, just west of John).

Someone earlier in this thread mentioned that the tower is going ahead without the usual pre-sales.

[Jaye101]

Next person who refers to the argument in this thread is getting brigged, and the thread locked.

[globetrekker]

Are we going to see the other side (south) of King St. W. getting a face-lift? I hate to think of this location for the Festival Tower serving as the new home for the Toronto International Film Festival. What I mean is, the idea of celebrities and the like driving up to this tower in a limo, getting out, standing on the red carpet for pictures and glancing across the street (in horror) at these hideous, run down buildings is frustrating. Surely, this must have been taken into consideration when thinking about building the Festival Tower here. Yes it's in the Entertainment District, but I mean.....The TIFF and other events it will be host to - all are influential and prestigious in nature. We cannot have it located in such close proximity to, what looks like, a ghost town. *sigh* Does anyone at least agree?

[InTheBeach]

Are we going to see the other side (south) of King St. W. getting a face-lift? I hate to think of this location for the Festival Tower serving as the new home for the Toronto International Film Festival. What I mean is, the idea of celebrities and the like driving up to this tower in a limo, getting out, standing on the red carpet for pictures and glancing across the street (in horror) at these hideous, run down buildings is frustrating. Surely, this must have been taken into consideration when thinking about building the Festival Tower here. Yes it's in the Entertainment District, but I mean.....The TIFF and other events it will be host to - all are influential and prestigious in nature. We cannot have it located in such close proximity to, what looks like, a ghost town. *sigh* Does anyone at least agree?

Don't be a tard. The side of the street that you are complaining about is more interesting than the Festival Tower itself.

What people might say is "IMFG, what is with the f*cked up wedding cake next door". And then they will go across the street for a drink, and listen to some jazz.

[yin_yang]

i think we're big and powerful enough to call any sub-par properties in our core rustic and quaint. :)

[Dino Domingo]

Are we going to see the other side (south) of King St. W. getting a face-lift? I hate to think of this location for the Festival Tower serving as the new home for the Toronto International Film Festival. What I mean is, the idea of celebrities and the like driving up to this tower in a limo, getting out, standing on the red carpet for pictures and glancing across the street (in horror) at these hideous, run down buildings is frustrating. Surely, this must have been taken into consideration when thinking about building the Festival Tower here. Yes it's in the Entertainment District, but I mean.....The TIFF and other events it will be host to - all are influential and prestigious in nature. We cannot have it located in such close proximity to, what looks like, a ghost town. *sigh* Does anyone at least agree?

Better King than the hideous, run-down eye sores lining Yonge between Dundas and Bloor.

[globetrekker]

Don't be a tard. The side of the street that you are complaining about is more interesting than the Festival Tower itself.

What people might say is "IMFG, what is with the f*cked up wedding cake next door". And then they will go across the street for a drink, and listen to some jazz.

Don't be a bitch. The other side of the street may be more interesting than the Festival Tower (they're equally as interesting imo), but it can still be just as interesting with a face-lift; update the exterior so that they're brought into the 21st century and leave the interior the way it is. People can still go across the street for a drink, and listen to some jazz. I believe that if we're going to have this fresh, modern "international' tower where it is, it's surrounding's should at least match it. What's wrong with that? I enjoy aged and old-fashioned buildings as well, but it doesn't match what The Festival Tower is, I'm assuming, trying to accomplish.

[valantino]

^you're a fool

[yyzer]

globetrekker, are you talking about 'restaurant row' across the street? That bit of King is one of the best urban stretches in the whole city...you don't mean messing with those beautiful old Victorians, housing, what...20 restaurants in a row, do you?

[valantino]

P.S. The Festival development isn't trying to accomplish anything other than being a Festival Centre anchored by a condominium tower. However the city through mass heritage status implementation most certainly is

[phunky]

Oh no. Don't let the rich actors, directors, producers see Toronto in it's real form!!! We must put up a facade so they still feel like they're in plastic Hollywood /end sarcasm

[Taller, Better]

My quote of the month:


"What people might say is "IMFG, what is with the f*cked up wedding cake next door". And then they will go across the street for a drink, and listen to some jazz."

:rofl:

[KGB]

I wasn't aware even a single person existed that objected to that stretch of restaurants...hmmm...this thread gets curioser and curioser.

The only thing that was negative about this stretch...was the parking lot Festival Centre is going on...now it will feel the way it's supposed to (all they need to do is fill that little parking lot at the west end of the stretch to make it perfect).

Although I must admit, the stench of a bad blind date years ago still haunts me about this retaurant-row (Nawlins).





KGB

[algonquin]

Are we going to see the other side (south) of King St. W. getting a face-lift? I hate to think of this location for the Festival Tower serving as the new home for the Toronto International Film Festival. What I mean is, the idea of celebrities and the like driving up to this tower in a limo, getting out, standing on the red carpet for pictures and glancing across the street (in horror) at these hideous, run down buildings is frustrating. Surely, this must have been taken into consideration when thinking about building the Festival Tower here. Yes it's in the Entertainment District, but I mean.....The TIFF and other events it will be host to - all are influential and prestigious in nature. We cannot have it located in such close proximity to, what looks like, a ghost town. *sigh* Does anyone at least agree?

Nope, you stand entirely alone on that one.

[circuitboy84]

Just East of where this building is getting constructed is Metro Hall on the south side and older buildings on the north side. I think the mixture of the old and new is very sexy! :)

[globetrekker]

Nope, you stand entirely alone on that one.


Apparently so.

[kettal]

why is the word centre blocked?

[sudburyboy]

why is the word centre blocked?

probably an a.pril f.ools thing, since the words a.pril f.ools is blocked too

[G_DOG]

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j145/gbelan/100_0006.jpg

[Waterloo_Guy]

Progress!

[phunky]

Man oh man by this fall there are going to be A LOT of cranes in the air in Toronto!

Thanks for all the awesome pics you've taken today!

[Dino Domingo]

Awesome.

Even though I'm thrilled there's a tower going up, let us not all forget that the real joy of this project is that TIFF has found a permanent new home!

[Waterloo_Guy]

Agreed. And I'm more excited about the base than the tower.

[phunky]

I don't think any of us could ever forget about the real purpose of the building :) The tower is secondary.

The crane should be going in soon however.

[ratoronto]

So they are steaming right ahead with full construction and doing the sales thing later (I've heard that the sales center under construction and will be going on Adelaide just west of John St.)...



Selling high-end condos, one cinephile at a time

Apr 23, 2007 04:30 AM
Martin Knelman
Entertainment columnist

Today represents a milestone for the Toronto International Film Festival, with the official groundbreaking for its long dreamed-of year-round home (known for now as Bell Festival Centre) on a parking lot at the corner of King and John Sts.

More than a thousand guests have been invited to a bubbly celebration at the Fairmont Royal York Hotel, featuring speeches by Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty, federal Heritage Minister Bev Oda, architect Bruce Kuwabara, festival CEO Piers Handling, and movie tycoon Ivan Reitman (whose family owned the site).

But perhaps what is most significant for the future of downtown Toronto is the phenomenon this project epitomizes: the glittery alliance of culture and showbiz with the lifestyle of high-end condominium buyers.

Two other soon-to-be-built luxury towers – one by architect Daniel Libeskind adjacent to the Hummingbird Centre, the other named Museum House because it is directly across the street from Libeskind's new Crystal expansion of the Royal Ontario Museum – have also been conceived to satisfy the appetite of high rollers who want a major cultural connection in their everyday life.

Consider the pitch to potential buyers of the 378 apartments in Festival Tower, Kuwabara's sleek, slender residential building joined at the hip with the festival's five-storey podium and rising 42 storeys alongside it: "One part condo, one part film festival – a world first."

It's a marriage that works for both sides. The condo tower, a joint venture of Daniels Corp. and the Reitmans, is being sold by its link to one of the city's most loved cultural institutions.

"Live the glamorous life atop Festival Centre," prospective buyers are urged. "Residents will enjoy all the amenities of an exclusive club." Membership privileges include being first in line for coveted tickets to the festival.

But once it moves into its new home in 2010, the TIFF group will be more than ever a year-round presence, featuring Cinematheque screenings and special events in its five auditoriums, plus a museum-like space designed to house major film-related exhibitions.

Without the driving engine of the condo tower, it's doubtful the festival would have been able to secure the land and money needed for its dream home.

Because of the strong interest from prospective buyers, Daniels Corp. did not feel it necessary to take the precaution of selling half the units (with price tags ranging from $300,000 to $2 million) before starting construction, beginning with a five-level underground parking garage. In fact, not a single unit has been sold, and it will be months before buyers can sign on.

As Daniels Corp. vice-president Tom Dutton explains, the apartments could not be sold until it became clear the festival would be able to pay its $129 million share of the costs. With confirmation of $25 million from the federal government, $25 million from the Ontario government and $30 million from Bell (for naming rights), the festival has raised $104 million for its building – enough to get a green light from its bank.

It's slated for completion in 2010. Given the strong response of buyers, the developer decided not to wait.

"We're extremely confident based on the response we've had," says Dutton. "We're taking advantage of a tremendous opportunity, bringing to market something you can't get anywhere else. There is only one Toronto International Film Festival, and it's here."
Arts-minded condo buyers with deep pockets will have to choose between Festival Tower and two other projects in the works that seek to fulfill the wishes of those who want major cultural institutions as part of their environment.

--A key element of the Hummingbird Centre's ambitious plan to renew and re-invent itself is Libeskind's startling tower, which looks like a piece of sculpture in the shape of the map of Italy – and is integrated with a box at its base meant to house expanded cultural activities, linked to the original 1960 theatre designed by Peter Dickinson. (Construction won't begin until mid-2008, but the sales office is about to open.)

--Museum House, a modern 19-storey condo tower to be built on the north side of Bloor St. W. across from Philosopher's Walk, has no official connection with a cultural institution, but the name tells you it is making the most of its proximity to Libeskind's Renaissance Crystal expansion of the ROM – visible from many suites.

"Culture is showcased at your feet in the historic architecture of the Royal Ontario Museum, the Royal Conservatory of Music, the University of Toronto, Philosopher's Walk and Queen's Park," promises the marketing brochure for the project, which will replace Pizza Hut midway between the Park Hyatt and Inter-Continental hotels, and bills itself as "the modern Utopia."

--Museum House, which offers its penthouse for $10 million, is clearly occupying the turf that was conspicuously left open by the museum. Because of fierce community opposition, William Thorsell, the CEO of the ROM, had to drop his lucrative plan to have a development partner build a highrise tower on the site of the former planetarium adjacent to the museum.

All of these projects are following the lead of the Manhattan condo tower that soars next door to the expanded Museum of Modern Art.

Still to be answered is this question: Is there a limit to the willingness of Torontonians to pay a hefty premium for the privilege of waking up every morning smack in the midst of the city's cultural renaissance?