The Hullmark Centre | Proposed | ?? st | ??? m | North York; NYCC

[pipolchap]

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2006/agendas/committees/ny/ny060919/it011.pdf

Set on the plaza grounds of Dominions and National Sports. Hope it wont be just another condo.

[neilio]

hey nice find, it looks good to, yet another 500+ footer

[CrazyCanuck]

This will break up the Monotonous tone of the NY skyline. NY needs a 500ft, this will be a good project.

[KGB]

Yea...nice to see the "clusters" getting some taller focal points (Y&E, NYCC). Looks like another excellent mixed-use TOD (NYCC seems to actually be doing better than downtown in that regard). I assume this will be attached to that linked underground PATH-like thing they have going?






KGB

[CrazyCanuck]

I quickly went through the report, apparently it will have a direct route right to the subway, that will be good for all those office workers and residents. I kind of like the square as well, Yonge and Sheppard needs one, much better then that parking lot.

Edit: I just realized where the location was, I have a soft spot for that place. That was the only place that was open when my uncles dog got sprayed by a skunk and I needed tomato juice. 8 cans later both me and the dog were doused in tomato juice. Ahh good times last summer and that was a long night.

[Waterloo_Guy]

The square is a great idea, NYCC needs more of that to give it a sense of place. I am concerned with the amount of land left in city centre. Does anyone know how close they are to running out of sites for highrises and if there is a plan to deal with it?

[valantino]

^I'd say 30% of NYCC is actually built out



I like it - I hope it gets approved at this height but I have my doubts

[Waterloo_Guy]

30 percent? Wow, I thought there was a lot less space than that.

[InTheBeach]

Just shy of 1,000,000 square feet parked on top of intersecting subway lines. I can see this getting approved, with some variances.

[Ed007Toronto]

^I'd say 30% of NYCC is actually built out

I'd double that amount.

[cassius]

As far as how much space remains, Waite Air Photos helps.

http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/on/toronto/2006/toh2006_262.jpg

[Dino Domingo]

Why the double C in NYCC?

This area has really grown in the past five years alone. What a great proposal. Too bad most of the growth still remains on the east side of Yonge St. The west needs more work.

[Jaye101]

Was that a serious question? Or a pun on NYC?

(North York City Centre)

[valantino]

"I'd double that amount."

no way

[Waterloo_Guy]

I was worried that there was a lack of land in NYCC for future development. Is there more land left than I thought?

[Canadian Chocho]

I consider the NY cluster right at Finch Subway Station, down.

[Dino Domingo]

Was that a serious question? Or a pun on NYC?

(North York City Centre)

No, for real. I thought it was North York City Centre, but didn't know for sure. But why not just North York Centre? It's not a city all its own anymore.

[Jaye101]

^^ Scarborough City Centre (Scarborough Town Centre is the mall), Etobicoke City Centre, East York Town Centre. Changing a few borders doesn't change what we consider the location it self.

[Waterloo_Guy]

Ok, just to clear things up, is this proposal to go beside the Nestle building?

[Tuscani01]

As far as how much space remains, Waite Air Photos helps.

http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/on/toronto/2006/toh2006_262.jpg

Thats an awsome picture. Downtown looks SO close, yet in real life that trip takes so long.

[phunky]

Thats an awsome picture. Downtown looks SO close, yet in real life that trip takes so long.

I was thinking the exact same thing when I looked at it.

[p5archit]

The main reason that there is so much more development on the east side of Yonge St. is due to the high school located there- Earl Haig. It has been considered one of the best schools in the city and has an exceptional arts program. That said, when buildings are built on the west side of Yonge St., the buildings are no longer with the Earl Haig S.S. jurisdiction and families unfortunately cannot send their kids there...That is why so much more development happens on the east of Yonge.


Now- from what i understand this building is going to be located on the north/east corner of Yonge?


p5

[phunky]

^^ South East corner.

[p5archit]

Is that where the Dominion or was it National Sports store was/is? Its a type strip mall isn't it?

p5

[Epi]

Thats an awsome picture. Downtown looks SO close, yet in real life that trip takes so long.

Only about 12 mins from Yonge and Sheppard to downtown at night...

[phunky]

Only about 12 mins from Yonge and Sheppard to downtown at night...

it's always taken me longer than that whenever i've driven. with all the traffic lights.

[zerokarma]

Thats an awsome picture. Downtown looks SO close, yet in real life that trip takes so long.

If you look on Google Satellite Maps it shows that whole stretch pretty good as well.

[urban 2.0]

As far as how much space remains, Waite Air Photos helps.

http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/on/toronto/2006/toh2006_262.jpg

This photo makes Toronto look like it only has one road... which leads to the pot of gold.

This Yonge Sheppard location is one of the best undeveloped properties in the city.

[Waterloo_Guy]

Another cool view (Flickr)

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r203/jrocinsane/sky/NYCCBIG.jpg

[caltrane74]

There is a lot of land to be developed in North York Centre. - And there are always people willing to sell.

[Waterloo_Guy]

I'm probably the only one who doesn't know this, but is the intersection in question close to the Nestle building?

[Epi]

I'm probably the only one who doesn't know this, but is the intersection in question close to the Nestle building?

The intersection is the south-east corner of Yonge and Sheppard. Therefore it is a 1/2 block away from the Nestle building on the other side of Yonge. It is where the current plaza with National Sports and the grocery store is.

[davidmillerismyboss]

Comments: Yonge st needs narrowing (or parking in shoulder lanes); i want to see an urban streetwall from yorkmills to steeles and beyond (including under the 401--yes it can be done); it's important to protect the older parts of willowdale from development; the area really isn't that developed yet (it's like its in grade one of 12); the quality must and will improve; perhaps 6 storey walkups would be a denser, more attractive solution to the west side of yonge to replace the 60's suburban landscape; I wish i owned property up there!

[pipolchap]

Comments: Yonge st needs narrowing (or parking in shoulder lanes); i want to see an urban streetwall from yorkmills to steeles and beyond (including under the 401--yes it can be done); it's important to protect the older parts of willowdale from development; the area really isn't that developed yet (it's like its in grade one of 12); the quality must and will improve; perhaps 6 storey walkups would be a denser, more attractive solution to the west side of yonge to replace the 60's suburban landscape; I wish i owned property up there!

I own property on the west side of Beecroft (one of the first ones) and would love to see low rise development. Zoning is R1. It makes no sense that highrises border bungalows, only to be separated by a road. There is no transition.. :ohno:

[Epi]

Comments: Yonge st needs narrowing (or parking in shoulder lanes); i want to see an urban streetwall from yorkmills to steeles and beyond (including under the 401--yes it can be done); it's important to protect the older parts of willowdale from development; the area really isn't that developed yet (it's like its in grade one of 12); the quality must and will improve; perhaps 6 storey walkups would be a denser, more attractive solution to the west side of yonge to replace the 60's suburban landscape; I wish i owned property up there!

Er... the ravine at Yonge and York Mills sort of makes your proposal impossible... That and the 401 onramps and offramps which will not change anytime soon.

There was a great article in the star a few days ago though about the need to really fix the NYCC into a real city center by Royson James.

[urban 2.0]

I own property on the west side of Beecroft (one of the first ones) and would love to see low rise development. Zoning is R1. It makes no sense that highrises border bungalows, only to be separated by a road. There is no transition.. :ohno:

Your neighbourhood like it or hate it will become like the annex, or any other low rise neighbourhoods in Toronto, your lawn will be where people living in highrises will take their dogs to shit on your lawn.

Over time, the lowrise developments you seek will be your neighbours.

[urban 2.0]

Another cool view (Flickr)

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r203/jrocinsane/sky/NYCCBIG.jpg

Looking at this photo, I'm reminded, that NY has little to offer. If you gave me a choice to spend the day at Yonge and Eglinton or NYCC, I wouldn't choose North York. It's lacking something, just can't put my finger on it.

[monkeyronin]

Looking at this photo, I'm reminded, that NY has little to offer. If you gave me a choice to spend the day at Yonge and Eglinton or NYCC, I wouldn't choose North York. It's lacking something, just can't put my finger on it.

Vibrancy, architecture, or urbanity perhaps? (when compared to Y&E)

[Jaye101]

Well we can't expect NYCC, MCC, ECC and SCC to transform into another downtown--because it will never happen.

[Waterloo_Guy]

Well we can't expect NYCC, MCC, ECC and SCC to transform into another downtown--because it will never happen.

It already has, just not on par with downtown Toronto. If you expect NYCC or MCC to meet the standards of Midtown you might be disappointed, but compared to the downtowns of many cites NYCC is pretty good.

[Jaye101]

'Of many cities' is not where Toronto's expectations are.

[Waterloo_Guy]

Good point.

[urban 2.0]

It already has, just not on par with downtown Toronto. If you expect NYCC or MCC to meet the standards of Midtown you might be disappointed, but compared to the downtowns of many cites NYCC is pretty good.

but what is it that NYCC is lacking? I'm curious to know what others think is needed to give it the same sense of life as Y&E.

[pipolchap]

but what is it that NYCC is lacking? I'm curious to know what others think is needed to give it the same sense of life as Y&E.

SHOPPING!!!

Too many restaurants in one area, I mean, how often can we eat out here??? If you compare the number of food joints in all of Toronto, this strip of Yonge has got to be the densest!

We have two malls (empress and sheppard) that suck the life indoors. We need more shopping/boutiques to bring people to the street. I'm afraid to say that the only source of street retail action around here is the Running Room, pretty sad....

[Epi]

but what is it that NYCC is lacking? I'm curious to know what others think is needed to give it the same sense of life as Y&E.

That's a good point, because NYCC is certainly larger than Y&E in size, unless you're counting all the way up past Sporting Life, but I am not sure if that counts... it's up the hill and pretty far to walk from the main part of Y&E, and unlike the NYCC there isn't super dense residential all the way along Y&E either.

I think the biggest thing is that Y&E also has Eglinton east of Yonge... that's a pretty large strip of decent walking, makes it seem like there's more than there actually is.


Then again, anyone who goes by NYCC often during the warmer months will notice that virtually every weekend there are events at Mel Lastman Square, and you will see tons of people there. The change in streetlife in just the past year has been astounding as well. I think once the new developments on Finch finish, we may start to see some shops and so on start moving West on Finch. I hope this continues. Meanwhile if the anchor properties were ever created at Yonge and Sheppard, the entire area would change as well.


Interesting article for those who missed it:
http://www.thestar.com/article/173459

[KGB]

NYCC has only one commercial street...Yonge. And that is totally under-developed. So it basically has no consistant retail street at all. Yet it has plenty of high density mixed-use development built out to the street....and TWO subway lines.

It is missing just one element to make it more of a "complete" node. And it seems to be the easiest element to add, so let's hope they manage to make something out of it from Sheppard to Finch.

Y&E has a huge advantage in terms of street life....it's commercial streets are older and more established...it's unbroken. It's also more upscale and stylish. Even Eglinton is a better retail street than Yonge up in NYCC.

So I never see NYCC having the cashe of Y&E.





KGB

[davidmillerismyboss]

NYCC reminds me of vancouver for some reason. Newish condos with lots of sushi joints etc. Sort of low end eats for low end condo buyers? You get the big towers behind single storey podiums and older retail strip plazas. Just reminds me of robson st in a vague way.

At night parts of it seem refreshingly different from old toronto; but the gaps in the streetwall must be filled--but at what cost? some of those older retail buildings (preww2?) in willowdale/lansing are nice but fit awkardly with the highrise blahness of today. So what's the solution? Facadism perhaps?

what i really wish would happen in toronto development circles: developers get together and decide on a single architectural "style" for a neighbourhood--i mean was college st w "planned" in 1905 and why did builders "know" how to keep a cohesive feel to the street back then? What's been lost? (To further my argument: Look at modern lowrise infill in montreal: developers there almost always reference and compliment historical context without being slave to it; yet so many times they fcuk up in toronto. Why???? Eg, queen west infill--they manage to build less dense fugly modern retail to replace redbrickretail. bizarre. No one gives a damn here i guess. Pity.)

So menkes, daniels, cresford, tridel etc get together to build a city, not a subdivision!

[KGB]

what i really wish would happen in toronto development circles: developers get together and decide on a single architectural "style" for a neighbourhood


Bad idea...thank god it could never happen anyway.



i mean was college st w "planned" in 1905 and why did builders "know" how to keep a cohesive feel to the street back then?


The same way houses in subdivisions all look the same...large swaths developed at the same time and using the style of the day.




(To further my argument: Look at modern lowrise infill in montreal: developers there almost always reference and compliment historical context without being slave to it; yet so many times they fcuk up in toronto. Why????


Why?? ...because you are guilty of looking at Montreal with rose-coloured glasses. People in Toronto are the world's worse sufferers of grass-is-greener syndrome. Montreal has not seen anywhere's near as much development as Toronto in the first place, and are far more likely to implement faux historisism than Toronto. Toronto's modernist infill is far more numnerous and on average, better architecture.

We like our old victorian, edwardian and deco commercial streets because they are now antiques. At the time, they would have just been the average style of the day. It was also modeled on europe as well, which was in hindsite, the best way to go. The best thing is to simply restore existing vintage buildings on the street and fill in the empty gaps with modernism...there's little point in trying to copy the old....that's not what they did originally...why do it now? As long as setbacks and massing is retianed, the architectural style of the day will fit in just fine....old and new make for great combinations. Of course, it's so much better when that architecture is really good, rather than not.





KGB

[Top Gear]

The main reason that there is so much more development on the east side of Yonge St. is due to the high school located there- Earl Haig. It has been considered one of the best schools in the city and has an exceptional arts program. That said, when buildings are built on the west side of Yonge St., the buildings are no longer with the Earl Haig S.S. jurisdiction and families unfortunately cannot send their kids there...That is why so much more development happens on the east of Yonge.
p5

I think it was decided quite a while ago that new condo residents whether on east or west of yonge cannot go to Earl Haig because it is overcrowded. They have to go to George Vanier or some other high school.

And is this new development gonna replace dominion plaza? why not build where there is free land? I just think its a bit wasteful

[Epi]

I think it was decided quite a while ago that new condo residents whether on east or west of yonge cannot go to Earl Haig because it is overcrowded. They have to go to George Vanier or some other high school.

And is this new development gonna replace dominion plaza? why not build where there is free land? I just think its a bit wasteful

Considering more than half of the new condos in NYCC are one bedroom, I don't see many families with high school students moving in anyway.

[davidmillerismyboss]

oh well you missed my point. Again. Sigh. I give up.

I thought high school students lived in those condos? Aren't they built for spoilt rich brats?;)

[pancsi]

I'm not willing to concede that Yonge & Eglinton will always be superior to NYCC. I've never lived in either area so I don't claim to be an expert but I did work in the Yonge & Sheppard area. I'll accept the Y&E is a more vibrante area in the evening and with the various coffee shop places but if I had to spend a day in 1 of the 2 areas I think I would choose NYCC.

Things I think I could do in the area that I don't think I could do at Y&E is check out the library for a time, afterwards go for a swim in the olympic pool (Toronto as a whole doesn't have enough of these), and later in the evening check out a concert at the NY Centre for the Performing Arts (which I have done many times).

With the possible development of the Canadian Tire lands to the East and the proposal for Yonge and Sheppard, I think the area shows great promise. The subway trip downtown is not much longer than it is from Y&E plus the proximity of the 401 and if they ever extend the Stubway out to Scarborough it has be potential to become a true downtown (albeit on a much smaller scale than downtown Toronto).

It probably has more office space with the two Xerox towers at Yonge and Finch, plus the Nestle building at Yonge and Sheppard as well as the Petro-Canada building at Yonge and Parkhome and the Camrost building just to the south. There is also the Federal Government building and the Yonge/Sheppard centre as well. Keep in mind that before the recent surge in office development in downtown Toronto, about the only office building of any size (at least in the 416 area) was the Transamerica (I think) building near Yonge and Parkhome.

I very rarely have reason to go to Y&E, but I often have reason to go to NYCC (Sometimes because it is closer to where I live but often because it offers things that are not available in the Y&E area.

I believe that at some point NYCC will surpass Y&E as a place to be for work and play (but I could be wrong too!).

Pancsi

[KGB]

Well, I think NYCC is more of a corporate office location, and I think it will be a bigger highrise condo development site.

But, Y&E is in Midtown, which is an older, established upscale area. It's commercial streetfront is older and much more consistant. Yonge St in that area represents the local shopping district for the people who live there. The commercial street is older, small scale and is both quaint to stroll on, and has the retailers to give it good shopping cashe. Mostly, it will always be ahead of NYCC simply by virtue of the fact that it has an existing built form that will always be preferable to what is going on in NYCC.




KGB

[Taller, Better]

Why?? ...because you are guilty of looking at Montreal with rose-coloured glasses. People in Toronto are the world's worse sufferers of grass-is-greener syndrome. Montreal has not seen anywhere's near as much development as Toronto in the first place, and are far more likely to implement faux historisism than Toronto. Toronto's modernist infill is far more numnerous and on average, better architecture.KGB

Montreal inherited, without question, the finest collection of pre-World War II architecture of any large Canadian city, but has not always continued the proud tradition, particularily from the late 60's on perhaps even moreso than Toronto. Here are some pretty common examples of the "historical reference" style:

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9089/img5502ok4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5620/img5555ac3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1285/img6105na4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/554/img6110mp0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8642/img6123ru5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Poorly done historical referencing does not result in 'quaint' architecture, and should be avoided if it cannot be done properly. Every Canadian city has been guilty of this, to varying degrees. Compounding the problem in Montreal is the fact that so much of the architecture is built flush to the sidewalk, allowing no landscaping whatsoever.

[phunky]

Le Drugstore! That place is cool :)

[Waterloo_Guy]

That second-last pic is awesome. I want that place in Toronto.

[Nouvellecosse]

Montreal inherited, without question, the finest collection of pre-World War II architecture of any large Canadian city, but has not always continued the proud tradition, particularily from the late 60's on perhaps even moreso than Toronto. Here are some pretty common examples of the "historical reference" style:

(Images)

Poorly done historical referencing does not result in 'quaint' architecture, and should be avoided if it cannot be done properly. Every Canadian city has been guilty of this, to varying degrees. Compounding the problem in Montreal is the fact that so much of the architecture is built flush to the sidewalk, allowing no landscaping whatsoever.
I actually think the first and last buildings are fairly successful at agreeing with their neighbourhoods, in the sense that they have similiar design "principles" without having the same architectural style. I don't like architecture that pretends to be from another area, but I also don't like architecture that isn't aware of its surroundings.

I admit however that the other buildings r just plain awful lol.

[Top Gear]

Considering more than half of the new condos in NYCC are one bedroom, I don't see many families with high school students moving in anyway.

True but you'd be surprised that many international students (especially from S. Korea) tend to live in those condos.

[Taller, Better]

That second-last pic is awesome. I want that place in Toronto.

You serious?!??!
Hey, I guess everyone has different taste. I think it schmecks.

[Jaye101]

lol, Mtl can keep it.

[pipolchap]

There going to be a community consultation meeting at NY Civic Centre on Wednesday June 6, 7pm. I'm concerned about traffic (plans to be about 1,249 parking spots) and lack of substantial commercial space (11 out of the 45 floors will be offices). If this goes through, it'll be the tallest building in NY!

Willowdale Plaza will be missed... (but not for long)

[kettal]

but what is it that NYCC is lacking? I'm curious to know what others think is needed to give it the same sense of life as Y&E.

It's not a real urban centre, it's just a bunch of towers surrounding a 6 lane Yonge Street. Can you imagine noticing your friend is on the opposite side of Yonge and then walking across to greet him in North York?

[taal]

I live in this area, and to be honest - above NYCC station its not fair to compare, it has a completely different vibe - Its predominately oriental and that works in its favour. There are many gathering places up to around Finch. And in the summer it definitely has its share of pedestrian traffic – nothing compared to YandE anytime of the year though. South of NYCC it tends to be more mixed – with even more traffic in the summer. It's also quite busy during lunch hours as there is a reasonable amount of offices located there.

This project along with the retail one across the street will help the area out a lot. And too the North Pulse + Meridian + C will add even more (likely oriental) densitiy.

[VikkyD]

you know.... I like this building... and since its replacing a parking lot, and an old "national sports" i'm cool with it going up.... it suits north york..... i say its time for them to get out the shovels!

[kettal]

Newtonbrook Plaza deserves the same fate

[camel_trainer]

NYCC needs so many things to be anywhere near as good as YandE. Difficult to know where to start. I don't want to be too negative and bash the area, but I'm going to name things that come to mind.

I actually like the area for a number of reasons, but from the standpoint of a pedestrian I find it very uninviting. In my opinion that's what needs changing.

Here goes:

Yonge is too wide here. It's loud and it makes the space too open.

The street level retail plazas are old, exceptionally ugly and completely inconsistent which makes the area look shabby.

Not enough trees.

Not enough street retail.



I had others, but I'm getting really tired suddenly because I got way too drunk last night and then worked all day on no sleep.

[thryve]

So is this happening?

[lcohen999]

Bad idea...thank god it could never happen anyway.






The same way houses in subdivisions all look the same...large swaths developed at the same time and using the style of the day.







Why?? ...because you are guilty of looking at Montreal with rose-coloured glasses. People in Toronto are the world's worse sufferers of grass-is-greener syndrome. Montreal has not seen anywhere's near as much development as Toronto in the first place, and are far more likely to implement faux historisism than Toronto. Toronto's modernist infill is far more numnerous and on average, better architecture.

We like our old victorian, edwardian and deco commercial streets because they are now antiques. At the time, they would have just been the average style of the day. It was also modeled on europe as well, which was in hindsite, the best way to go. The best thing is to simply restore existing vintage buildings on the street and fill in the empty gaps with modernism...there's little point in trying to copy the old....that's not what they did originally...why do it now? As long as setbacks and massing is retianed, the architectural style of the day will fit in just fine....old and new make for great combinations. Of course, it's so much better when that architecture is really good, rather than not.





KGB

Thank you KGB, with my entire family and wife from Montreal, I am tried of hearing how horrible TO is in relation to Montreal, both as a city as well as its development and architectural style. If anyone who isn't from Montreal who has not left the cosy confines of St. Catherine street and the Old Port, they would fin a city in horrible decline with a 3rd world airport and 4th world (is there even such a thing) highways.

I'll give you a great example of the empathy and ego Montrealers have towards their city. Near the 40 and Cote De La Vertu sits a Marriott hotel chain. Both a Courtyard and one of their other brands combined together. It is LITERALLY two concrete slabs put together. No roof, no style, just flat soviet style building. This is what passes as acceptable in Montreal these days, but its OK, because its Montreal and its so quaint and unique with the french...

/rant over :)

look at the exterior picture:

http://www.marriott.com/hotels/hotel-photos/yulra-residence-inn-montreal-airport/

[Mollywood]

Montreal inherited, without question, the finest collection of pre-World War II architecture of any large Canadian city, but has not always continued the proud tradition, particularily from the late 60's on perhaps even moreso than Toronto. Here are some pretty common examples of the "historical reference" style:

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9089/img5502ok4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5620/img5555ac3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1285/img6105na4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/554/img6110mp0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8642/img6123ru5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Poorly done historical referencing does not result in 'quaint' architecture, and should be avoided if it cannot be done properly. Every Canadian city has been guilty of this, to varying degrees. Compounding the problem in Montreal is the fact that so much of the architecture is built flush to the sidewalk, allowing no landscaping whatsoever.

That second building is La Trac. I lived a block east of that building for 6 years and had a blast. :banana: :banana: :banana: I wish Toronto's gay village had big, open, lively complexes like this, it's such a great place to hang out and I think it looks great. The Drug store is a great place too and the building looks attractive. Toronto's village needs more places like this. It's open and lively, and beats anything in Chicago's, New York's or San Francisco's gay village. :banana:

[Grey Towers]

Does anyone know when this is to get underway?

On a related note, it might be helpful if these development forums had one-stop-shopping threads that dealt with specific information about every single project in the city. Details such as groundbreaking dates, projected finish dates, more wide-ranging specifications than just height and storeys, and other data that might be deemed of interest. Projects could be listed alphabetically in the first post in the thread, and updates could be made as they become available. Each entry could provide a link to the thread that discusses the project at length. The thread could be a sticky for quick access. Just an idea. I don't know if it appeals to anyone else.
I would be willing to manage the thread, except that I don't have the inside track to the industry that many of you seem to have.

[Taller, Better]

Great idea, Greytowers!!!... there is so danged much going on that it is nigh on impossible to keep track of everything without a lot of hunting. Also a link to the individual threads would be a huge bonus! :applause:

[valantino]

Does anyone know when this is to get underway?

Supposedly in the next few months however I don't see any mention on Tridel's website which is known to post "coming soon" appetizers well in advance

[Grey Towers]

^I hope it's not a victim of the slowdown.

Taller, Better, erm, do you know of someone capable of administering a catch-all thread? I usually only pop in here every 2-3 days, and I don't have access to the info needed. I think it would have to be someone more immersed in the subject and forum than me.

[Taller, Better]

Contact Jaye101 or Crazy Canuck, and they might have some ideas... or we may have a volunteer of someone who is knowledgeable and organized. I'll bet someone out there has the smarts and the time to do it! :)

[CrazyCanuck]

If you give me 12 days I could make this my summer project. Well my permanent summer now, this is my last year, lol.

[Grey Towers]

Thanks, CrazyCanuck; that would be great, provided you think there is enough interest in the idea. We wouldn't want you to spend a lot of time on something nobody looks at.

[CrazyCanuck]

I'm thinking of a one post master development thread. Any ideas on what it should include? My creative brain is stiring. haha

[Taller, Better]

Well done, Crazy. A one stop shopping thread would be very helpful to those of us who have trouble remembering all the kabillion projects on the go! You get an internet pint of beer for that! :cheers:

[Grey Towers]

I was thinking of something along these lines, but you do it whatever way you want:

_________________________________
Trump Tower Toronto

Architect:
Builder:
Height (total): 280.1 metres (919 ft.)
Height (roof):
Storeys: 62
Volume:
Floor space:
Number of units (if applicable):
Construction start date:
Estimated finish date:
Link to thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=386744)
________________________________

Maybe you and others have a better idea of what to include (maybe even renderings, if they aren't too obtrusive) and exclude, and how best to format the entries and separate them from each other so they are easily distinguishable.
The good thing is, the thread is constantly modifiable, so it can be a repository for the latest - and complete - information. Anyone can contribute snippets of information that you can then add to an entry.

[valantino]

I think that's too much info; duplication with the development's thread.

name
storeys (height in parenthesis)
image (possibly thumbnail)
link to thread

[Grey Towers]

I think that's too much info; duplication with the development's thread.

name
storeys (height in parenthesis)
image (possibly thumbnail)
link to thread
But having it that barebones would defeat the purpose of providing a central concentration of useful data. However, it's up to CrazyCanuck to determine what's essential and what isn't, since he's putting in the labour.

[taal]

I have an idea...
Discuss this in a separate forum!
Every time I see a post here I think there's been some progress with the NYCC proposal (which is really significant).

I do like the idea though :-)

[CrazyCanuck]

I have an idea, this will be a seperate thread, that is what we are discussing. It's not something mundane and useless to the forum. In about a week we will have a master thread, so that it will be easier to navigate.

[The 'Sauga]

This project is still alive!

http://www.tridel.com/hullmarkcentre/index_pre.php

http://www.tridel.com/hullmarkcentre/images/building_352.jpg

[iliamo]

Score!

[CrazyCanuck]

So Grand Central is the name of the condo portion?

[bizkit]

http://tridel.com/hullmarkcentre/images/hullmark_centre-800w.jpg

[CrazyCanuck]

This will be good for breaking up the monotony of height on buildings.

[kettal]

The YD square of the north.

It ought to have some offices in it though.

[lcohen999]

The YD square of the north.

It ought to have some offices in it though.

It does, it is mixed office/retail/residential

[CollsGuy]

What other building in the city does this compare to in height? Approx..

[yin_yang]

the cladding suggests the lower section of the taller tower seems to be offices.

[NorthYorker]

One thing about the rendering; there is a subway entrance current;y standing at the SE corner. Obv this is not in the picture, and I doubt this will be torn down, as its still pretty new. I wonder what the plan is there..

[Canadian Chocho]

This will be good for breaking up the monotony of height on buildings.

My thought exactly.

The YD square of the north.

It ought to have some offices in it though.

http://www.tridel.com/hullmarkcentre/images/landing_square_352.jpg

[Canadian Chocho]

This will be good for breaking up the monotony of height on buildings.

My thought exactly.

The YD square of the north.

It ought to have some offices in it though.

http://www.tridel.com/hullmarkcentre/images/landing_square_352.jpg

[LordMandeep]

The height was said to be around 165 M and it is much more bulkier so it would standout more so then Quantum at Yonge and Eglinton which is around the same height.

[OEincorparated]

Has this building started sales yet?

[yyzer]

so far pre-registration only....

http://www.tridel.com/hullmarkcentre/index_pre.php

[LordMandeep]

well the builder Tridel are the most popular and respected builders out there so imo it will be easily sold and will likely be built.


Additionally they Dominate the suburban Toronto condo market.

[tridelwebmaster]

so far pre-registration only....

http://www.tridel.com/hullmarkcentre/index_pre.php

The preview of Hullmark Centre begins this weekend, Saturday, November 1st, 2008 and Sunday, November 2 between 12 noon and 6 pm. Fill out the registration form to receive an email with more details such as floorplans.

Website: tridel.com/hullmarkcentre/ (http://tridel.com/hullmarkcentre/)

Registration form: tridel.com/hullmarkcentre/register.php (http://www.tridel.com/hullmarkcentre/register.php)

[isaidso]

^^ I thought solicitation wasn't allowed on SSC?

This complex is ok, but when is Tridel going to start building more sophisticated buildings? 300 Front is good. I commend you, but good design should be the rule, not the exception. Good design is good business sense. It also has to do with being a good corporate citizen.
Aqua in Chicago
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/andydie/Chicago%20Trip/100_1987.jpg

Come on Tridel, a little more style and flare please. You need to do much better than this! Better design won't cost you an arm and a leg and will make your properties easier to sell. We're competing with cities like Chicago and London for talent. When you put buildings up like Hullmark, you're not making our job easier. Hullmark is ok, but that doesn't cut it any more. Here's a link if you need more prompting: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=450045&page=35

[Grey Towers]

^^ I thought solicitation wasn't allowed on SSC?
Yeah, but give the guy/gal a break to drum up some business in hard times. At least it's on-topic and not spam for Nokia or Jordans, as we have seen so often here.

[isaidso]

That's not the point. If you allow that, you have to allow people hawking what ever. Nokia phones, condos, sneakers, etc. It's all the same. Many people do not like being solicited to. If he wants some of my time to hawk product, he can pay me some money. Any unwanted advertising is spam. Just because it's Tridel, doesn't mean it's not spam. It's no different than some teenager in his basement soliciting product from his computer.

He broke the rules, and if anything, I see this as an opportune time to let Tridel know that some Torontonians expect better design from that industry. They incorporate mediocre design because too many Torontonians don't say anything. We're never going to get better design if we don't ask for it. Hullmark isn't bad, but it's not great either. If we want Toronto to compete with the best in the world, we have to start demanding the best at home. That means companies like Tridel need to become innovators and leaders.

I realize it's asking too much since these people just care about their pay cheque. City and nation building is off their radar screen. I have to try though. You never know if there's going to be someone there who 'gets it'. Most think they're simply a company that puts buildings up. They're probably very proud of their buildings too. They're slowly improving, but we need to prod them.

[Grey Towers]

Fine, and I happen to abhor unrequested solicitation as much as, or likely much more than, the next guy, but I'm willing to make concessions when the "spam" is so precisely targeted and germane to the subject at hand. This happens to be a thread about the Tridel Hullmark Centre in North York, and I'm sure there are people browsing through here who like what they see and wouldn't be averse to finding out where to register for a condo in the complex. Would it have been more ethically acceptable if one of us unaffiliated regulars had posted the information instead? As long as the Tridel poster doesn't flood this thread with reruns of the same info, who cares?

As for the design, some people might find the Hullmark Centre tasteful while decrying the design in the picture you posted as rather gaudy. I wouldn't go nearly so far as to say I love it, but I'm a tall-box aficionado, and this one's less narcolepsy-inducing than, for example, the connect-the-dots clones of Cityplace.

[isaidso]

I'm generally opposed to being marketed to unless they ask permission, I've agreed to it, or they pay me. I do admit that this spam is more tailored to an interested audience, but you have to be vigilant to encroachments like these.

If you had given the link, I wouldn't have found it off putting since it would have been altruistic. When people do it for self gain, it becomes a little off putting. I admit to being overly sensitive to this issue. When I studied at business school, I initially concentrated in marketing. I switched to a concentration in economics because I found the whole marketing industry grossly unethical.

Marketing fascinates me, but it's basically mass manipulation of consumers. Pray on their weaknesses and desires so that they will part with their money whether they need the product/service, or not. They all take an 'ethics' course, but it's a big joke. It's mainly there so that they can say they know about the ethical issues, but then completely ignore them in reality. The ethics course eases their guilty conscience.

My personal principles prevented me from pursuing a career in this field. I know I'd excel at it, but I'd be selling my soul to do it. They always argue that they are providing a service, educating the public, and represent a fountain of information. That all sounds lovely, but it goes well beyond those pleasant sounding things.

As far as Hullmark and Aqua go, I accept that people's tastes vary. That is good. My objection is that the tastes of a certain segment of the population seem to be catered to, while the rest wait patiently for some crumbs. ROM was a nice little crumb to hold me over till L Tower. All I'm advocating is that buildings are more reflective of all people's tastes. Do we really need yet another 'tall-box'? Throw me a bone here!

How are you doing, btw? I remember having a nice chat with you a number of months ago.

[v_skyline]

I'd like to see this building get built but it might not make it given the current market climate.
What gives it a fighting chance is the location.

[valantino]

I see your point, Taller

C'mon, Aqua?

What's next posting pics of the Taj Mahal?


The Chicago faithful at SSP have declared Auqa the greatest tower to rise in decades (locally) while others have even hinted the greatest tower of all time. Now, if that your basis for judging 300 well, you may want to climb the fence and actually touch the grass. 300 Front and Hullmark compete very well with the likes of what's being built in Chicago for comparison sake.

[Grey Towers]

I'm generally opposed to being marketed to unless they ask permission, I've agreed to it, or they pay me. I do admit that this spam is more tailored to an interested audience, but you have to be vigilant to encroachments like these.
I agree, one must be vigilant. Give an inch and they'll take a mile, so maybe you're right to be so uncompromising.
My personal principles prevented me from pursuing a career in this field. I know I'd excel at it, but I'd be selling my soul to do it. They always argue that they are providing a service, educating the public, and represent a fountain of information. That all sounds lovely, but it goes well beyond those pleasant sounding things.
As someone not susceptible to advertising, I don't see the value of it at all. I don't want to be assailed by images and sounds promoting random consumer items that don't interest me in the slightest. I generally don't buy anything I haven't considered and made a concerted effort to seek out. It is disheartening to know that advertising obviously ensnares enough gullible people into mind-numbing consumerism to make it lucrative.
My earlier point was that what was posted by the Tridel member didn't really seem like spam to me because it is information that could be useful to someone reading this thread. Nobody (I hope) is going to look at that link and say, "Oh, now I must buy a Hullmark condo", but someone reading this thread who happens to be in the market for a condo might find it helpful.
My objection is that the tastes of a certain segment of the population seem to be catered to, while the rest wait patiently for some crumbs. ROM was a nice little crumb to hold me over till L Tower. All I'm advocating is that buildings are more reflective of all people's tastes. Do we really need yet another 'tall-box'? Throw me a bone here!
I don't like either of the projects you mention, so I guess we have conflicting tastes. I'm an artist, with some abstract tendencies at that, but when it comes to architecture I don't like colourful and splashy. I like tall, imposing, and symmetrical, hence my moniker. Libeskind's style in particular just seems sloppy and ill-thought-out. L Tower doesn't bother me that much, but ROM just looks like someone broke a window and swept the glass shards into a pile. Mind you, glassy '80s architecture, like one sees in Dallas for instance, doesn't appeal to me either. I do like the '70s skyscrapers in Toronto's core very much, but I wish we could go back in time 80 years and accrue a nice collection of Art Deco masterpieces in this city.
How are you doing, btw? I remember having a nice chat with you a number of months ago.
Not too well, but thank you for asking. Yourself?

Apologies to the others for this digression.

[isaidso]

Sorry to hear that and I hope the situation improves. All is good at the 'isaidso' camp.

Design? I appreciate your differing taste in architecture, but in a big city like Toronto, it's important that other people's tastes are satisfied as well. Taste is certainly a subjective thing, but differing taste doesn't have to mean it's not well thought out or lacks quality.

Bay-Adelaide and Hullmark bore me to death, but I acknowledge that they are well thought out and of a satisfactory quality. They are simply not buildings designed to appeal to people who appreciate a more cosmopolitan design aesthetic. Those people are going to adore ROM, the OCAD 'table top' building, and even the new Umbra store off Queen West.

If Toronto really wants to market itself as a city of the world's people, it needs to be less rigid when it comes to architecture. Cosmopolitan designs like ROM and Umbra are very rare. For every building like this, about 50 traditional conservative structures rise. That is a huge imbalance and is only going to cause some frustration and back lash.

I think we notice it quite often on SSC. Quite a lot of people criticize. They see the dominant built form, and don't see themselves reflected in that. They feel ignored. That's not an optimal situation.

There's a great thread you may be interested in regarding the merits of revival style. There are some fabulous re-productions shown. It was quite an eye opener to see so many successfully reproduced styles. Here you go: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=735946

[Grey Towers]

Sorry to hear that and I hope the situation improves. All is good at the 'isaidso' camp.
Glad to hear it. My situation shows no signs of improving, but I won't elaborate as this isn't the appropriate place.
Design? I appreciate your differing taste in architecture, but in a big city like Toronto, it's important that other people's tastes are satisfied as well.
Fine with me, as long as we don't end up with some of the awful crap they have in places like Shanghai or Vegas. We already have a few dollops of odious Vegas schlock with the plastic abomination known as the Chrysler Towers; it astounds me that that utter shit was ever approved.
Taste is certainly a subjective thing, but differing taste doesn't have to mean it's not well thought out or lacks quality.
I didn't claim that, but to reiterate, I don't like Libeskind's style. I find it looks cheap and garish, with its endless glass, sharp edges, and asymmetry. What might look good on a painter's canvas doesn't necessarily have the same appeal manifested in full scale in the middle of a city. But, I'm under no illusions that I'm the ultimate arbiter of good taste. Moreover, ROM might grow on me, and L Tower might turn out better that I anticipate.
Bay-Adelaide and Hullmark bore me to death, but I acknowledge that they are well thought out and of a satisfactory quality.
Their designs bore me too, but they are functional and relatively impressive mass-wise. My preference is for tall, slender buildings with facades of something other than glass, which is why I'm such a big fan of First Canadian Place (shame about the marble, though) and skyscrapers from the Art Deco era. I also really like the TD Centre, Commerce Court West, Scotia Plaza, and Royal Bank, but don't reserve much affection for the Canada Trust tower, which is borderline tacky. Of recent projects, I love ROCP, even if the finishing is cut-rate (is that the dominant criticism?).
Those people are going to adore ROM, the OCAD 'table top' building, and even the new Umbra store off Queen West.
I'm very fond of OCAD, though I can't quite explain why I appreciate its audacity and not that of Libeskind's creations. Maybe it's because it exudes an unpretentious, ebullient quality, whereas Libeskind's work does just the opposite.
I think we notice it quite often on SSC. Quite a lot of people criticize. They see the dominant built form, and don't see themselves reflected in that. They feel ignored. That's not an optimal situation.
Compared to many of the members here, I'm not as much of a junkie of all-things-urban. I'm here for the Toronto skyscrapers, little else. I'm interested in, and advocate for, urban matters, but that's not why I joined this forum.