Massive Residential Proposal for Bay St.@ St. Michael's College

[DrT]

Just posted at the Urban Toronto forum (credit acknowledged to their moderator for finding and posting this link).

Huge development for Bay St. between St. Joseph and St. Mary St. on UT lands (St. Michael's College).

Three towers, 45, 37 and 25 storeys with townhouses along Bay!

Link:
www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2007/te/bgrd/backgroundfile-661.pdf

This came out of left field for me. Surprised college involved in residential development.

[nitzomoe]

they had too. st michaels college is broke... again. The sad thing is this really wont solve their problems. hopefully the condos look nice.

[Taller, Better]

Oh oh.... I am wondering how this is going to affect the old church and the grounds around it. There has been an old zoning variance application up at that site for about 20 years. 3 buildings is a LOT for that land.

[DrT]

Rattling Chain Investments is making the proposal. Who the heck are they? Anyone heard of them before?
Hard to tell from drawings, but looks like pretty standard condo fare in terms of design.
I would prefer retail at street level.

[DrT]

Oh oh.... I am wondering how this is going to affect the old church and the grounds around it. There has been an old zoning variance application up at that site for about 20 years. 3 buildings is a LOT for that land.

3/4 of a million square feet is ALOT. Sounds like the city will make them keep a good bit of green space though and I'm sure they will not be approved for for that much density.
I'm all for very dense development, but I kind of hate to see it within the university grounds. This is going to raise issues I'm sure like the condo proposal at the ROM did.

[Epi]

From the pictures in the document, the condos look pretty ugly. It looks like a larger version of the Woodsworth residences of UofT (Bloor and St. George).

It also destroys the last greenspace on Bay street as well. And what's with the townhouses on Bay St.?!

[valantino]

wtf?

crappy siteplan and townhouses on bay?!?!

I don't know, two slim point 60 storey towers on each corner of the site (no podium) with the rest as parkland

[KGB]

From the pictures in the document, the condos look pretty ugly. It looks like a larger version of the Woodsworth residences of UofT (Bloor and St. George).


Well, considering Woodsworth isn't an ugly building, and aA has a good track record, and those basic drawings submitted don't show any real detail...then I am inclined to think these buildings will be in classic aA good taste. This style is becoming a bit "done" by these guys...but I don't feel tired of them yet.

With the obvious problems of this layout, I'm pretty sure this one will be going back to the drawing board.





KGB

[phunky]

there is currently a parking lot there if i recall correctly?
i parked there to go to pride one year.

these buildings look very typical and boring based on the proposals.

[salvius]

Those drawings never really show much beyond massing, which doesn't look terrible. Wait and see on this one, I guess.

I'm also a fan of Woodsworth...

[davidmillerismyboss]

I had forgotton how nice st mike's campus can be; walking up baren bay st the other day i took a detour (wanted to see one st thomas--i like it) and walked through the old red brick houses of st mike's. wow--one can only imagine how nice bay st was pre-ww2.

while highrises might be inappropiate for the site, aA is good and look at 18 yorkville for example: does the highrise negatively affect the historic library/firehall and homes at its base? However if it was a daniels or menkes' creation......

The real eyesores along that stretch are those 70s-80s condos--eg 1025 bay st etc. Can't wait til they come down.....

It all comes down to landscaping--vancouver quality good; chityplace style bad.

[valantino]

It all comes down to landscaping--vancouver quality good; chityplace style bad.

concord pacific place's landscape is better than cityplace but not that much better


The real eyesores along that stretch are those 70s-80s condos--eg 1025 bay st etc. Can't wait til they come down.

you're wasting your time by waiting unless you plan on living for the next few centuries

[SD]

I don't really care for this project at all.

Too bad St. Mike's can't come up with a better way of raising money.

[Taller, Better]

I had forgotton how nice st mike's campus can be; walking up baren bay st the other day i took a detour (wanted to see one st thomas--i like it) and walked through the old red brick houses of st mike's. wow--one can only imagine how nice bay st was pre-ww2.

while highrises might be inappropiate for the site, aA is good and look at 18 yorkville for example: does the highrise negatively affect the historic library/firehall and homes at its base? However if it was a daniels or menkes' creation......

The real eyesores along that stretch are those 70s-80s condos--eg 1025 bay st etc. Can't wait til they come down.....

It all comes down to landscaping--vancouver quality good; chityplace style bad.

I walk my dogs through there all the time and it is wonderful. Not much parkspace left on Bay St.
As for landscaping at "Chityplace", perhaps it might be an idea to let it actually get built first to decide what the landscaping is going to look like. I don't remember the landscaping at the Concord Pacific Place looking particularily different other than the fact they can grow some plants that we cannot. I have relatives who live there.

[nitzomoe]

From the pictures in the document, the condos look pretty ugly. It looks like a larger version of the Woodsworth residences of UofT (Bloor and St. George).

It also destroys the last greenspace on Bay street as well. And what's with the townhouses on Bay St.?!

i think some of the st mikes quad will be left, at least thats what i see from the proposal.

[Epi]

Well, considering Woodsworth isn't an ugly building, and aA has a good track record, and those basic drawings submitted don't show any real detail...then I am inclined to think these buildings will be in classic aA good taste. This style is becoming a bit "done" by these guys...but I don't feel tired of them yet.

Perhaps it's because I'm envisioning the podium in that ugly off-white yellow brick used in Woodsworth, and I also know the interior of Woodsworth is quite cheap (lots of students complain about the cheapness of the building). Hopefully this will be nicer, but I guess we won't know for a long while.

[ScrapeTheSky]

It'll be very unfortunate to see this green space go. It's a beautiful part of St. Mike's.

[DrT]

It'll be very unfortunate to see this green space go. It's a beautiful part of St. Mike's.

I would not count on the parkette disappearing.
The developers have been advised that the Official Plan adopted by City Council calls for an increase in tree canopy coverage when possible and warned that "issues to be resolved" include "interface with existing parkette and opportunities to enhance open space". We'll hope for the best here.

[KGB]

Perhaps it's because I'm envisioning the podium in that ugly off-white yellow brick used in Woodsworth


Buff brick is aA's trademark...hell, it's practically Toronto's trademark. The reason....it's that brillant tie-in between the new "Toronto modernism" and our traditional victorian. And as an alternative to stucco or precast...light years better.




I also know the interior of Woodsworth is quite cheap (lots of students complain about the cheapness of the building). Hopefully this will be nicer, but I guess we won't know for a long while.


Student residence and luxury Bay Street condos...something tells me the latter will have a somewhat bigger interior budget.




KGB

[davidmillerismyboss]

^yeah why is it students get to complain about everything? Considering they're subsidized by us working stiffs i'll say to 'em shut up you're no longer in your parents suburban ranch home!

I looked at the pdf more closely--really love the "podium" and maybe just maybe what if they built the entire thing like the podium architecture--ie bricks and glass but increased the podium height to maybe 10 floors? Bet they could get the same density as the shorter podium and towers.

When i referenced vancouver landscaping--i was thinking more of coal harbour and the west end--concord is known in both cities for cheaping out; however, cp landscape is still lightyears ahead of cheap concrete planters and brick of cityplace (east.) And remember, cp is only about half built and they landscape as they build--actually the city controls their landscape.

Now i suppose this application is typical toronto developer politics: ask for 50 floors get 35. Better than a parking lot and better than rocp disasters.

[InTheBeach]

Je likes it.

[CrazyCanuck]

^yeah why is it students get to complain about everything? Considering they're subsidized by us working stiffs i'll say to 'em shut up you're no longer in your parents suburban ranch home!

I looked at the pdf more closely--really love the "podium" and maybe just maybe what if they built the entire thing like the podium architecture--ie bricks and glass but increased the podium height to maybe 10 floors? Bet they could get the same density as the shorter podium and towers.

When i referenced vancouver landscaping--i was thinking more of coal harbour and the west end--concord is known in both cities for cheaping out; however, cp landscape is still lightyears ahead of cheap concrete planters and brick of cityplace (east.) And remember, cp is only about half built and they landscape as they build--actually the city controls their landscape.

Now i suppose this application is typical toronto developer politics: ask for 50 floors get 35. Better than a parking lot and better than rocp disasters.


Excuse me??? Subsidized??? It costs ten grand to live in one of those Woodsworth student residents every year, they can complain if they want. If David Miller is your boss I hope he gives you a swift kick to the behind for every shortsighted comment like that.

[SD]

^yeah why is it students get to complain about everything?


Yeah! Only an elitest would think everyone has the right to complain!

[KGB]

Well, I have yet to hear any actual convincing evidence that there is some kind of poor quality at Woodsworth in the first place. In any event, the interior dynamics of luxury market-driven private condos and student residence buildings are completely different, so this whole arguement is moot anyway.





KGB

[davidmillerismyboss]

I'm the poorest elitist in town! lol.

What's wrong with aspiring to greatness? Why settle for the typical?

The more i see it, the more i like this proposal: I the snob do now declare it: Highrise Project of the Decade.

Soon Bay St will be known as aA alley; coming soon, aA hq to the corner of bay/edward. Can't wait to see what they do to the "Greyhound" condo.

Now Bay St needs to find a landscape architect to come up with a boulevard concept--chic canuck/swedish-style street furniture (molded plywood benches, planters, "tables" aluminum "coke bottle" garbage bins "murano" glass transit shelters canadian maple trees+pine trees and hedges shaped like famous bay st businessmen, canadian shield rock sculptures of bay st construction workers wood "totem" pole light standards with ocad blown glass lamps.)

HEY DAVID MILLER U STUPID BOSS OF MINE, are you listening? HIRE ME NOW.

[Waterloo_Guy]

^yeah why is it students get to complain about everything? Considering they're subsidized by us working stiffs i'll say to 'em shut up you're no longer in your parents suburban ranch home!






Are you for real? You make students sound like welfare bums. (I'm not attacking people on welfare in general, just those who cheat the system.) And for the record, not all students are from rich homes, some of them have next to nothing.