Norwegian highways

[AmiDelf]

Hello. I dont have a driver license, but I know that Norway is one of the richest countries out there, and still Norway got less than 150km with highways.

Think of it. Driving from Oslo to Bergen takes about 10 hours! Thats 98% 2 lane road with yellow stripes in the middle for the most and at some sections its even smaller with white stripes at the edges of asphalt.

Lets take route from Oslo to Bergen:
Oslo
¦
¦ Highway class A
¦
Sandvika
¦
¦ 2 lane road, where 0.2% of it is classified as Highway B
¦
Voss
¦
¦ Highway from border of town to center of Bergen ;p
¦
Bergen


Does anyone have maps of Norways highways maybe?

[AmiDelf]

I made an illustration with this map ;)

http://home.powertech.no/micbergs/grabb/highwaysnorway.jpg

So.. if Netherlands gets flooded or islands swallowed by the ocean. Norway got plenty of space :)

[ChrisZwolle]

Is the speed limit on motorways still 90km/h? That would be the lowest max.speed i've ever seen.

And thanks for the invitation, but we have an excellent dike and dune system. They even came from New Orleans to check out our Delta-projects :)
But Norway is a nice country, but quite expensive i heard. But the scenery compares that easily ;)

[Verso]

^ The speed limit is now 100 km/h. :D

I really don't understand why they have so few motorways, Finland for example has much more.

[ChrisZwolle]

Well, the terrain is extremely mountainous, compared to flat Finland. maybe there is no need for them, because of low amounts of traffic. There are only a few million people in this country.

[x-type]

i think there is more then 150 km of motorway, but not too much. on the map that i own motorway system looks like on this picture. the thing that i hate in nordic countries (den, swe, nor) is that they don't have motorway numbers. fin has, but they are the same as state roads.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a203/ixic/highwaysnorway.jpg

[AmiDelf]

That map is all wrong. Between Oslo and Lillehammer,.. the 4 lane highway is only upto Gardermoen airport, then further north its 2 lane highway and thats not real highway.

There are only 2 places in whole Norway where you can drive in 100km/h.

[GuyFromMoss]

AmiDelf you are wrong.. There are quite many places you can drive in 100 km/h in Norway.

E6 from Vinterbro to Solli, E6 from Oslo to Jessheim, E18 from Asker to Drammen, E18 from Drammen to Kopstad and also the highway connecting E6 and Oslo Airport have all speed limits of 100 km/h.

And the term "highway" is wronly used here. Highway means "riksveg". You guys are talking about Motorways/Expressways.

[LtBk]

100km/h is slow for me.

[pilotos]

100km/h is slow for me

Not that slow if u take in mind that 120km/h is the speed limit on like 80% of Europe's highways, except Germany where they use no speed limits for highways.

As for norways highways, i really had no idea that they actually have so little of them.

[ChrisZwolle]

100km/h is slow for me.

Sadly enough, you'll see 100km/h on a growing amount of motorways in The Netherlands, outside urban areas.

It is such a slow speed! But in Norways case, it's okay, so you can enjoy the scenery :lol:

[NorthStar77]

^the traffic is usually going in 110-120 though ;)

We have so bad motorways because all the money has been spent by stupid politicians wanting to build bridges and tunnels in the small places they come from(usually western or northern Norway):ohno:

[pilotos]

^the traffic is usually going in 110-120 though

Well in Greece the speed limit on highways is 120(140 in some cases) but the traffic(Cars) is moving a lot higher(140-180).Thats a reason for us having a lot of deaths in our roads though.

[Metsada]

^the traffic is usually going in 110-120 though ;)

We have so bad motorways because all the money has been spent by stupid politicians wanting to build bridges and tunnels in the small places they come from(usually western or northern Norway):ohno:Really? I would have thought that a country like Norway would know its priorities.

[NorthStar77]

Really? I would have thought that a country like Norway would know its priorities.

It's been bettet the last 10-15 years. Infrastructure-projects around Oslo have higher priority now(although most of them are financed by toll-roads). We've got a new motorway through much of Vestfold and Østfold (southwest and southeast of Oslo), and more is under construction. A 40 km motorway between Kristiansand and Grimstad in the south is also under construction.

But the problem is that we are lagging behind, these motorways currently under construction would have been finished 30 years ago had the same area been in Sweden or Denmark.

[BL]

^^ i dont understand norway is one of the richest if not the richest country in the world and has no money for motorways.

[ChrisZwolle]

^the traffic is usually going in 110-120 though ;)

Are you sure? I heard fines are ridiculous high.

[Verso]

Well in Greece the speed limit on highways is 120(140 in some cases) but the traffic(Cars) is moving a lot higher(140-180).Thats a reason for us having a lot of deaths in our roads though.

You may also drive at 140 km/h in Greece? Where would that be?

[NorthStar77]

Are you sure? I heard fines are ridiculous high.

Yes, but they usually don't bother with people driving 10-20km/h faster than the limit on the high standard motorways, only on the roads of poorer standards, where there are more accidents.

I am sure, I've driven on the roads out of Oslo many times ;)

[pilotos]

You may also drive at 140 km/h in Greece? Where would that be?

IN pathe(παθε) motorway, there is a part of the road that speed limit is 140km/h its the part near thessaloniki which is 3 lanes each side.
I dont know if there is anywhere else though.The rule is 120km/h except if u see a sign that indicates a higher speed,can be lower also ofc :).

[Verso]

^ I didn't know that, thanks. :)

Btw, any pix of Norwegian motorways? :)

[NorthStar77]

The new motorway on E18 through Vestfold. 35km, 7km in tunnel, 2 km over bridges.
http://www.oslofjordtunnelen.com/filesystem/imgs/e18_oversikt_kart.gif

From the construction-phase:
http://www.oslofjordtunnelen.com/filesystem/imgs/e18_oversikt01.jpg

http://www.oslofjordtunnelen.com/filesystem/imgs/e18_vestfold_helland.jpg

that thing over the road is a restaurant
http://www.oslofjordtunnelen.com/filesystem/imgs/img_e18_vestfold.jpg

All I had time for now

[Verso]

^ I like such restaurants. Btw, is there any Norwegian motorways' site or at least Norwegian roads' site?

[Norsko]

This is how our motorway signage looks like:

http://www.vegvesen.no/vegskilt/vegvisningsskilt/bmp/705.bmp

And the blue one below is at the exit:

http://www.vegvesen.no/vegskilt/vegvisningsskilt/bmp/715.bmp

[Norsko]

Distance sign (the blue one on motorways of course):

http://www.vegvesen.no/vegskilt/vegvisningsskilt/bmp/725.bmp

[Norsko]

And that sign with a crest appears everytime you drive into a new county (blue no matter what kind of road you re at)...

http://www.vegvesen.no/vegskilt/vegvisningsskilt/bmp/727.bmp

[Nicolás]

E6 Near Trondheim, taken with my old camera:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3194/dsc00082ge6.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00082ge6.jpg)

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3313/dsc00083on8.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00083on8.jpg)

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/66/dsc00084sp4.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00084sp4.jpg)

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3769/dsc00085bd0.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00085bd0.jpg)

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/543/dsc00086lw2.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00086lw2.jpg)

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2281/dsc00087hg3.th.jpg (http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00087hg3.jpg)

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/4956/dsc00088db0.th.jpg (http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00088db0.jpg)

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/6637/dsc00089cw6.th.jpg (http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00089cw6.jpg)

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/261/dsc00090zh3.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00090zh3.jpg)

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2204/dsc00091aa7.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00091aa7.jpg)

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8413/dsc00092ic9.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00092ic9.jpg)

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2747/dsc00096ha0.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00096ha0.jpg)

Oslo:

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/5108/dsc00010ba0.th.jpg (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00010ba0.jpg)

[Oslo 5]

The Norwegian Public Roads Administration (Statens vegvesen)http://www.vegvesen.no/servlet/Satellite?pagename=SVV%2FSVVforwardToSite&c=Publication&sitename=engelsk is responsible for planning, building and up keeping of national roads in Norway. The net pages describing the different road projects are only in Norwegian.http://www.vegvesen.no/servlet/Satellite?cid=1167903998425&pagename=vegvesen%2FPage%2FSVVsubSideInnholdMal&c=Page A resent study showed that Norway uses just as much on road construction as Sweden and Denmark, but the decision-making is quite different. In Norway almost all such decisions are some sort of pork barrelling (done in the parliament, versa Sweden and Denmark to a larger distinct trust upon the departments of transportation and/or road authorities).

[Verso]

Nice compilation of pix! What's the total length of Norwegian motorways (precisely, if possible)?

[Oslo 5]

Norway has of today around 270km of motorways. It is very popular to complain about the state of Norwegian roads and the phase of new building, but there is little or none effort done to change the decision-making process which is the main reason of the way recourses are distributed to infrastructure investments.
Concerning the highways connecting Oslo and Bergen (E16/R7), will this be a rather silly place to start. Some parts are her of pore condition, but work/planning fore these parts are under way. But the need of a motorway all the way is greatly overestimated by some populists and ill-informed pressures groups. The road traffic between Oslo and Bergen are extremely low (under 2000 vehicles pr day). The rescores ere best spend were there in fact are severely problems. The R7 is not closed during winter (as some other even less trafficked mountain roads are) but due to the extreme weather condition over ‘Hardangervidda’ (1250m) , it might be closed for some days at the time during winter, but most often only at night (about 530 hours pr year).

[Verso]

^ Thanks!:) I knew it was more than 150 or 200 km.

[AmiDelf]

4 lane motorways is under 200km long. Norway got lots of B class motorways, which are 2 lanes only, but without crossings. Those cant be counted as real motorways though.

[Oslo 5]

I have seen the number 180km (2003), and I have seen 270km as of today, but neither are official numbers, of which I can’t find any. The larger number might or might not take in account all 4 lane expressways as Ring 3, Rv 4, Rv 163, Rv 190 and parts of E6 and E18 in Oslo of which none has full motorway standard. The lower number probably excludes these sections and of course those parts opened since ’03. But if you include all 2 lane expressways, the number are much higher (664km according to CIA World Fact book). Eider way, this is a way to low number, but this has more to do with pork barrelling than anything else.

[GuyFromMoss]

There are no "B class motorways" in Norway anymore. Motorway have to have four lanes to be called motorways in Norway.

[Alex Von Königsberg]

Here are some pictures of Norwegian carriageways. These are not mine, I just found them online.

http://thazul.info/travel/norway06/Image00109.jpg

http://thazul.info/travel/norway06/Image00130.jpg

This road looks exactly like a US highway
http://thazul.info/travel/norway062/Image00158.jpg

http://thazul.info/travel/norway062/Image00239.jpg

http://thazul.info/travel/norway062/Image00356.jpg

http://thazul.info/travel/norway062/Image00360.jpg

[ElviS77]

The Norwegian motorway (4+ lanes with correct signposting) network is currently - as someone have already stated - approx. 270 kms. In addition to this, there are about 60 kms of reasonable quality limited-access mulitlane highways around some cities (Oslo, Bergen, Trondheim, Kristiansand). By 2010, the network will increase by about 90 kms (mainly through duelling of single-carriageway expressways). By 2015, the network will have increased by a further 200+ kms. That is if everything goes according to plan, which it rarely does up here...

In addition to this, a Swedish invention has become increasingly popular amongst the Norwegian road authorities: the narrow 4-lane road. Originally conceived as one way of widening Sweden's extensive 2-lane, 13-metre wide, road network to something resembling motorways (16 metres across with a centre guard rail), it has been introduced in Norway as a way of building motorways on the cheap.

[Jeroen669]

I heard the limit on Norwegian motorways are 90 or 100 km/h (and further 80 km/h). Is it 90 and 100 when signed, or 100 and 90 when signed? Btw, why don't you raise your speed limits? With such long distances in your country it takes quite long to travel with those low limits.

[ChrisZwolle]

Norway is very mountainous. I think you may be happy to even reach 90km/h on many stretches. Although speed limits on motorways are low. They better raise them to 120km/h.

[TohrAlkimista]

But someone who wants to go from Oslo or Bergen to Nordkapp by car can do it? are there highways?

[ChrisZwolle]

There is a road to the Nordkapp yes. But don't expect motorway-like roads. The roads are very quiet, Norway is large and has only a population of 4.3 million. Especially north of Trondheim.

But the usual road from Europe to the Nordkapp is through Sweden and Finland, because that's shorter.

[Maxx☢Power]

Norway is very mountainous. I think you may be happy to even reach 90km/h on many stretches. Although speed limits on motorways are low. They better raise them to 120km/h.

There's been talk about raising the speed limits on some new motorways. I think the reason motorways are still limited to 90 or 100 km/h is because people aren't used to real (extra-urban) motorways and so the normal speed limits have applied there as well. Norway only has two standard speed limits, for urban roads (80) and country roads (50), while most other countries also have one for motorways. I remember when I was a kid and we drove in Sweden how exciting it was to see speed limits with three digits. The roads of course had a much better quality (and the terrain was much easier to build in) to support these limits.

[ChrisZwolle]

http://nexus.fizyka.amu.edu.pl/digital/2007-07..Norwegia/

Very cool photo's done by some Polish guy, so all credits go to him.
(taken from the Polish subforum on SSC).

[GuyFromMoss]

It's a shame that there aren't more photos of Norwegian motorways online. Some of them is really top class!

[igorlan]

It's a shame that there aren't more photos of Norwegian motorways online. Some of them is really top class!

I'll try to take some in October, though I'll fly there but certainly I'll have an access to the car :)

P.S. I used to take a ferry from Moss to Horten, my family lives in Tonsberg :)

[GuyFromMoss]

WHAT?

I currently live in Tønsberg. Weird! :)

[ChrisZwolle]

Yeah, you guys are almost family ;)

[igorlan]

WHAT?

I currently live in Tønsberg. Weird! :)

I'll be in Tønsberg from the 4th until 8th of October :)

[ElviS77]

There is a road to the Nordkapp yes. But don't expect motorway-like roads. The roads are very quiet, Norway is large and has only a population of 4.3 million. Especially north of Trondheim.

But the usual road from Europe to the Nordkapp is through Sweden and Finland, because that's shorter.

We are 4.6 million, actually... But 40% of those live within an hour's drive from Oslo, and more than 50% within two hours. Puts thing into perspective when you know that the distance Oslo-Rome is SHORTER than Oslo-Kirkenes (at the Russian border)... However, this has not yet resulted in a proper motorway network around Oslo and the other urban areas or a reasonable 2-lane main road system throughout the rest of the country. In fact, secondary national roads may be as good as E roads and other main roads (but they may also be in a terrible state...).

I think there are four main reasons for this: 1. The political aspect already mentioned by someone else. 2. The lack of a national strategy: in fact, up to the 90s, all Norwegian "national" roads, including E roads, were for all intents an purposes county roads, everything went through the counties. 3. The counties have been competing for funds, and thus, arguments like "last year, the Oslo region got more than us, therefore we should get more than them next year" were considered valid. 4. Even main roads have generally been made as inprovements of older, rural roads instead of making brand new roads. The same stretch of road, then, might well have been improved two, three or even four times since WWII, and the current road will still be worse than the similar one built in Sweden 40 years ago...

[ElviS77]

Here are some articles from an mc magazine with quality pictures of Norwegian roads. The first is from a regional road an hour's drive north of Oslo:
http://www.mcjournalen.no/ruter/rute_hurdal.htm
A quiet road through hills and forests - national route 180. Another quiet road just round the corner is the 240:
http://www.mcjournalen.no/ruter/rute_brandbu.htm
A more spectacular road is this, in the vicinity of Stavanger. Not a national road, but a tourist attraction nevertheless:
http://www.mcjournalen.no/ruter/rute_lysebotn.htm
A mix of old and new regional highways is found around one of the deepest lakes in Europe, the Tinnsjø. This is the 37 and the 364:
http://www.mcjournalen.no/ruter/rute_tinnsjo.htm
The 51 will take you through high mountains, all the way up to 1389 m. Not much for North/South Americans or even central Europeans, but quite extreme up here:
http://www.mcjournalen.no/ruter/rute_valdresflya.htm
Another example of a typical rural road is the 255:
http://www.mcjournalen.no/ruter/rute_espedal.htm
Spectacular nature and roads is available along the 63, both in Geiranger and along Trollstigen:
http://www.mcjournalen.no/ruter/rute_geiranger.htm
http://www.mcjournalen.no/ruter/rute_trollstigen.htm

For some reason I couldn't simply paste pictures, but I hope you'll enjoy some of these. I'll dig up some more later.

[ElviS77]

Here's the entrance of the world's longest road tunnel, Lærdalstunnelen:
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilde:Laerdalstunnelen.jpg

[ElviS77]

More Wikipedia stuff, this a suspension bridge on the 13 outside Stavanger on the southwestern coast:
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilde:Lysefjordbrua_fra_Uburen.jpg
Another bridge, much further north. On the 17 outside Sandnessjøen in Nordland county (and yes, "Nordland" means virtually what you would expect, even though it's not the northernmost county):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Helgelandsbrua-2006-07-02.JPG
Oslo's Ring 3 (aka rv 150 - but not signposted as that):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Quevaal_oslo.jpg
A tolling station on the E6 just south of Oslo:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Bomring_Abilds%C3%B8_E6.JPG
E6 in Nordland:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/T%C3%B8mmernes.jpg
New E18 under construction, approx 50 kms southeast of Oslo:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/E18_motorway_under_construction_Askim_Norway.JPG
Norway's highest mountain pass is found on the 55, here a (rather blurred) picture of the climb on the western side, where the road starts at sea level and ends at an elevation of 1440 m:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Riksvei_55_ved_Turtagr%C3%B8.jpg
Almost as far north you can drive in Europe. The E69 south of the North Cape:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/E-69_road_Mageroya.jpg
Ferries are common in Norway. This picture is from the 70s, but the situation is much the same today:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/MF_Bj%C3%B8rnefjord_%281962-1988%29.jpg

Hope you'll enjoy these as well, I'll see if I can find some more...

[Jeroen669]

Very nice pictures! Keep up the good work. :)

[DanielFigFoz]

Norway's Highways are beautiful, congratulaisons Norway!

[ElviS77]

By popular demand;)

I found these on the Norwegian national road organisation's home page:

A few pictures from the western part of Oslo, on the quite busy rv 168. A tunnel is planned to ease the congestion:
http://www.vegvesen.no/region_ost/prosjekter/roa/w_trafikkbilder/pages/kryssvest3.htm
One of the largest construction sites in Norway is in central Oslo. An immersed tunnel is being built to link two existing tunnels on the E18 in order to get traffic away from Oslo's seafront and the new opera. Here's a map and some images:
http://www.vegvesen.no/cs/Satellite?c=Page&cid=1157615752099&pagename=VPBjorvika%2FPage%2FVPside
One of many problems on Norway's highways... tractors. These are from the heavily trafficed E6 in Gudbrandsdalen approx 200 kms north of Oslo:
http://www.vegvesen.no/cs/BlobServer?blobcol=urlpicture&blobtable=SVVbilde&blobkey=id&blobwhere=1174979506464&blobheader=image%2Fjpeg
http://www.vegvesen.no/cs/BlobServer?blobcol=urlpicture&blobtable=SVVbilde&blobkey=id&blobwhere=1174979506448&blobheader=image%2Fjpeg
http://www.vegvesen.no/cs/BlobServer?blobcol=urlpicture&blobtable=SVVbilde&blobkey=id&blobwhere=1174979506477&blobheader=image%2Fjpeg
http://www.vegvesen.no/cs/BlobServer?blobcol=urlpicture&blobtable=SVVbilde&blobkey=id&blobwhere=1174979506490&blobheader=image%2Fjpeg
There are plans to improve the E6 on the abovementioned stretch, but it is at least 8-10 years in the future. Parts of the E16 northwest of Oslo, however, is already under construction. Here are some images of how it will be:
http://www.vegvesen.no/region_ost/prosjekter/VP_e16/bjorum_skaret_karusell/pages/b1_del2.htm
This page includes a nice picture of one of Norway's older expressways, the E18 outside Larvik, 120 kms southwest of Oslo. It is overdue to be (and going to be) replaced by a motorway:
http://www.vegvesen.no/cs/Satellite?c=Page&cid=1150553720765&f=true&pagename=VPE18Larvik%2FPage%2FVPside

For some reason, the road authorities focus almost exclusively on projects being built or planned, but there are some interesting samples here. For the truly interested, their web site, www.vegvesen.no is worth a try. There is an English version, but most of it is in Norwegian.

[ElviS77]

There is actually a "beautiful road award" in Norway... Here are the best two in 2006, the first from the northwestern part of the country, the second from central Oslo (click arrows to see more):
http://www.vegvesen.no/vakreveger/2006/pages/31SVV-712608.htm
http://www.vegvesen.no/vakreveger/2006/hedrendepris_thumb/pages/frognerplass1.htm

[ElviS77]

Eventually I found what I was really looking for - the web page for the national tourist roads. It's full of more touristy pictures (and of course in Norwegian), but if you click a bit back and forth, you'll find some good stuff. To begin with, here are shots from the spectacular Atlanterhavsveien, rv 64:

http://www.turistveg.no/modules/module_123/templates/fp.asp?iCategoryId=75&vt=fp&iTVID=46&iInfoId=85&lang=nor

Enjoy!

[Pavlov's Dog]

This one front-page news from Aftenposten (http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1972523.ece), Norway's newspaper of record.

Norwegian highway-building lags rest of Europe
Norway, despite its vast oil wealth, has been extremely slow to improve its roads and build safer, multi-lane highways. Startling new statistics were unveiled Monday, just after another weekend of deadly head-on collisions on heavily trafficked two-lane highways.

Two people were killed on the busy E-18 highway Sunday afternoon, when their car crashed head-on into a truck near Larvik. The fatal collision closed the highway for hours, and occurred at almost the same spot as another deadly crash last week.

Newspaper Aftenposten revealed statistics in its Monday edition documenting the lack of so-called "Class A" multi-lane highways in Norway. While Sweden has 1,740 kilometers of such roads, Norway has just 281 kilometers. Denmark, meanwhile, can boast 1,024 kilometers and Finland 700 kilometers.

Even poorer countries like Portugal have built 972 kilometers of multi-lane highways in the past six years, according to Knut Boge, a highway expert at Akershus College (Høyskolen i Akershus). He was presenting a detailed report on Norwegian roadbuilding, or lack thereof, at a seminar in Oslo on Monday.

Norway's mountains and jutted coastline have long been portrayed as hindrances to highway building in the country. Boge suggests other factors are at work.

Authorities in Sweden, Finland and Denmark have made "transport infrastructure" a priority since the 1950s, Boge told Aftenposten. Roadbuilding has been viewed as a means of securing national business competitiveness, he said, while Norwegian authorities "have been less concerned with this."

He noted that Norway is saving the majority of its oil and gas wealth overseas, through its massive pension fund. "Swedish, Danish and Finnish authorities, without such wealth, have made investment at home a priority, not least in transport infrastructure," Boge said. "They traditionally have seen a need for roads, taken the initiative to build them and then gradually paid for them through tax revenues."

In Norway, he said, state authorities since the 1800s have made roads mostly the responsibility of motorists, townships and counties. Last year, he noted, local and user contributions to roadbuilding made up roughly half of the total amount spent.

Norwegian politicians also fund projects that can help them secure reelection, not necessarily the projects that can build the most roads for the money and enhance safety.

[ElviS77]

The Aftenposten article is very much to the point. The only transport infrastructure ever prioritised up here, is airports. A joke from Northern Norway illustrates the point:

"Finally, we have an excellent airport with direct links to the rest of the country."

"Great, but how are we going to get to the airport? Do we have to swim?"

[GuyFromMoss]

I agree that there are way to few Norwegian motorways, but in 2009 you can drive on Motorway all the way from Oslo to Tønsberg and Oslo to the Swedish border. So it is getting somewhat better! :)

[wyqtor]

I agree that there are way to few Norwegian motorways, but in 2009 you can drive on Motorway all the way from Oslo to Tønsberg and Oslo to the Swedish border. So it is getting somewhat better! :)

That's very good news! Keep building'em, so that my dream of visiting the Lofoten and Finnmark will be more feasible! :D (I live far away, in Romania!)

[igorlan]

As promised, I present a few pictures taken 4 days ago - E18 Oslo - Kristiansand

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/8549/71001528xs0.jpg
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7976/92399625tv7.jpg
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/4217/33179057hr7.jpg
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2109/34569063hx8.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3377/67510159sk9.jpg
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/7840/24251099kp1.jpg
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Hope you enjoyed :)

[Jeroen669]

Very nice pictures!:banana:

[AmiDelf]

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/7628/46nw6.jpg

This is the signs for B class motorways/highways in Norway. 4 or 6 lanes road isnt much at all. But there are some constructions, so the number is getting higher and higher for A class motorways/highways.


A class : 2 lanes on each side, which makes 4 in total. In Oslo there are some parts with 3 and 4 on each side. No traffic lights etc.

Speed limits up to: 100km/h

B class: 2 lanes with yellow stripe in the middle. Can be 4 lane, but can have normal crosses. These roads also got bigger lanes than normal roads.

Speed limits up to: 90km/h

[Wallaroo]

We have so bad motorways because all the money has been spent by stupid politicians wanting to build bridges and tunnels in the small places they come from(usually western or northern Norway):ohno:Thats why I hate politicians - THOSE FUCKING ASSHOLES! :bash:

Some idiotic politicians from northern Jutland (Denmark) blackmailed the danish paliement to built a 60 km motorway from Ålborg to Hirtshals - an extremely unessecary prestige roject. :mad:

[ChrisZwolle]

Some idiotic politicians from northern Jutland (Denmark) blackmailed the danish paliement to built a 60 km motorway from Ålborg to Hirtshals - an extremely unessecary prestige roject. :mad:

Really? When i drove there, there was quite some traffic. You don't want all those trucks through the existing towns. And motorways are much safer as other roads, so the traffic safety is also an issue perhaps.

[Wallaroo]

Really? When i drove there, there was quite some traffic. You don't want all those trucks through the existing towns. And motorways are much safer as other roads, so the traffic safety is also an issue perhaps.In Denmark the amount of traffic must be at least 10.000 vehicles per day to built a new motorway, in Germany its 25.000, and I wonder what it is in Netherlands? I think the amount of traffic is far less than 10.000 vehicles per day on that stretch, which is far from justifying a motorway. There would have been a much cheaper solution IE: "omfartsveje" around the towns in connection with the existing road.

[ChrisZwolle]

10.000 is nothing. Connecting roads in neighborhoods can reach that with ease. That's about 8 cars per minute on average, or 3,5 car per minute on a 24 hour basis. I'm sure the E39 reach that.

[Rebasepoiss]

IMO there should be a barrier on both side of the lamp posts. Right now the posts are quite close to the road.
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7236/18yx7.jpg

[Verso]

Wow, what a nature! Thanks for the pix, we don't have many from Norway, I wish we had more! Illumination all the way really surprised me!

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/4379/20sr7.jpg
Ramps before the tunnel? Interesting.

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/7628/46nw6.jpg
The upper sign suggests that the traffic is 2-way, but it's (still) 1-way!

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/3161/43cq3.jpg
What's this car plate? Cuz I don't think it's Ljubljana. :D

Oh, and Marché rocks! :banana:

[Norsko]

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/3161/43cq3.jpg
What's this car plate? Cuz I don't think it's Ljubljana. :D


It would lack the crest though :) LJ means this vehicle is registrated in Tønsberg. (Town about 100 km south-west of Oslo)

[igorlan]

Wow, what a nature! Thanks for the pix, we don't have many from Norway, I wish we had more! Illumination all the way really surprised me!


http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/3161/43cq3.jpg
What's this car plate? Cuz I don't think it's Ljubljana. :D

Tonsberg :)

[Verso]

Why is LJ Tønsberg? Anyway, go, Tønsberg! :nocrook:

[Norsko]

Why is LJ Tønsberg? Anyway, go, Tønsberg! :nocrook:

Instead of matching licenseplate codes with town/region names, we use an alpabethical-geographical system up here; AA is as far south-east as you can get, ZZ is all the way up by the Russian border. Some exeptions though: EL is used by elektric powered vehicles, GA by gas powered vehicles, HY by Hydrogen powered vehicles and CD is used by diplomat vehicles.

[Jeroen669]

Just a thing what comes in my mind now: why are the emergency lanes (if present) so narrow?

And does Norway have dynamic road management on some of its roads? (apart from the tunnels)

[Verso]

Just a thing what comes in my mind now: why are the emergency lanes (if present) so narrow?At least tunnels are wide. Damn, that was a nice trip, and the rainy/foggy weather makes it more mystic. Oh, thanks, Norsko. :cheers:

[Norsko]

And does Norway have dynamic road management on some of its roads? (apart from the tunnels)

Do you mean like in the photos 15 or 16 in post 61? If so, yes we do (obviously :) ). Mainly close to or inside major towns and before major intersections. On the E 18 in Vestfold, were these photos are shot, there are quite a lot of signs like that cause of all the tunnels. In case of closed tunnels these signs will show the detour routes.

[Norsko]

At least tunnels are wide. Damn, that was a nice trip, and the rainy/foggy weather makes it more mystic. Oh, thanks, Norsko. :cheers:

My pleasure, and yes, Norway is quite mystic during autumn :D

[Wallaroo]

IMO there should be a barrier on both side of the lamp posts. Right now the posts are quite close to the road.
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7236/18yx7.jpgNorwegians are not exactly known for efficiency. :lol:

[x-type]

the weirdest toll stations that i have ever seen! now i ask myself: are our toll stations with roofs and all the other things really neccessary? :lol:

[wyqtor]

the weirdest toll stations that i have ever seen! now i ask myself: are our toll stations with roofs and all the other things really neccessary? :lol:

Despite its few motorways, Norway kicks ass :D :cheers: ! I just love those simple, elegant and practical solutions that other people from other countries don't even think about! I guess the workers are reassigned from collecting tolls to inputting the car numbers in the computer.

Also I can't wait for the day when I will finally get there and take a cruise on the fjords! :)

[Verso]

the weirdest toll stations that i have ever seen! now i ask myself: are our toll stations with roofs and all the other things really neccessary? :lol:Haha, true, and you don't even have to pay, if you're by motorbike! :D

[Wallaroo]

the weirdest toll stations that i have ever seen! now i ask myself: are our toll stations with roofs and all the other things really neccessary? :lol:Even weirder is it that their toll stations are placed on ordinary rural roads, instead of on motorways only. I have never seen that anywhere else - kinda crazy I think.

[ChrisZwolle]

^^ Yeah, a lot of Norwegian roads are tolled from time to time. I must say, their infrastructure is so expensive, you have to pay for it, but why not a toll vignette like Switzerland?

[NorthStar77]

I don't understand why the toll stations are weird, we have those all over the country. Are toll-stations other places manual only? We don't pay toll to employ loosers to sit there, we pay for better roads! The toll-roads around Oslo will soon be all automatic. If you try to drive through without paying, you'll get a hefty fine, atleast if it's a Norwegian car, don't know how it's solved for foreign licence plates.

Even weirder is it that their toll stations are placed on ordinary rural roads, instead of on motorways only. I have never seen that anywhere else - kinda crazy I think.

Yeah, that is a source of much debate many places. There can be more reasons for this. One is to avoid that people drive detours just to avoid paying. That could lead to small local roads beeing congested, but most importantly less income for the toll-station;) Another reason is that some for projects, collecting money via toll is started years before construction even begins. This is to reduce the cost of the projects, they need to loan less money, and the toll-station won't have to stand there for so many years. Most people that lives near these toll-stations are usually very much against this setup, naturally. This has led to a big rise in the populist party that is against all these toll-roads, Progress party. In Tønsberg for example, I think they got 40% in the last election.

[x-type]

I don't understand why the toll stations are weird, we have those all over the country. Are toll-stations other places manual only? We don't pay toll to employ loosers to sit there, we pay for better roads! The toll-roads around Oslo will soon be all automatic. If you try to drive through without paying, you'll get a hefty fine, atleast if it's a Norwegian car, don't know how it's solved for foreign licence plates.

i didn't mean to say anything negative about it. i just said that we are all got used to large toll stations with roofs, with a lot of lights, even cups with flowers (very common here) and i allways found it normal, but now i see that toll station can exist without all those things, and i have never been thinking about it!

(this about loosers who are sitting there and collecting the money is absolutely true :D but there is (actually, was) even worse - loosers who've been giving tickets while we didn't have automates for that :lol:

[NorthStar77]

^Ahh, I see. Well, some more flowers wouldn't hurt, I guess. The station in Sande(in the photo) is relatively new, so it still looks rather ok, but the stations we have around Oslo is getting old, 17 years I think. Paint is falling off, and they are getting rusty. But as mentioned, they'll bee soon replaced.

btw, thanks igorlan for posting the photos. I've driven this piece of road and taken the bus many times, as I am from Kristiansand. But I've never taken any photos while driving. Come to think of it I've taken some photos from a bus once, 2-3 years ago iirc. I'll post some here soon :)

[Wallaroo]

^^ Yeah, a lot of Norwegian roads are tolled from time to time. I must say, their infrastructure is so expensive, you have to pay for it, but why not a toll vignette like Switzerland?I like the Italian toll system best - works perfect! You get a ticket at the onramp, and pay for the amount of km you drove at the offramp.

[wyqtor]

I like the Italian toll system best - works perfect! You get a ticket at the onramp, and pay for the amount of km you drove at the offramp.

I like it too, but from the signs in the pictures above I understand that in Norway they take a snapshot of your car number and then send you the bill by mail - did I understand correctly? If so, I find it very convenient and practical. And the best thing: no traffic jams at toll booths!

Out of curiousity, are foreign-numbered cars handled in the same way?

[Norsko]

(...) Out of curiousity, are foreign-numbered cars handled in the same way?

That is the thought, and since this system has been in use for some time, I guess it works out quite as it is supposed to. I have read in the news about some German cars getting away without paying though, something about the German police having other priorities (would you belive it ? :shocked: )

[x-type]

I like it too, but from the signs in the pictures above I understand that in Norway they take a snapshot of your car number and then send you the bill by mail - did I understand correctly? If so, I find it very convenient and practical. And the best thing: no traffic jams at toll booths!

Out of curiousity, are foreign-numbered cars handled in the same way?

but if thatßs so, why are there manual paying lanes? wouldnßt those be unneccessary?

[Norsko]

but if thatßs so, why are there manual paying lanes? wouldnßt those be unneccessary?

The toll station with lanes for manual payment (photo 27 post 61) is situated on the E 18 motorway wich was constructed about ten years ago, the automatic toll station (photo 43 post 61) though, is just a couple of years old, built after this new payment system was developed and accommodated to the Norwegian Autopass system.

[wyqtor]

but if thatßs so, why are there manual paying lanes? wouldnßt those be unneccessary?

I guess they didn't get to replace all of them just yet. Obviously they need quite high resolution cameras in order to clearly capture the number on the plate, cameras which weren't exactly available until recently. Probably they will soon replace the "manual" toll booths with the new camera ones. They need to be improved especially if they are around big cities like Oslo .

An interesting thing would be to make a computer program that "reads" car numbers, so the system would be fully automated, but that's not exactly an easy task, it would involve pattern recognition and advanced statistics.

[Norsko]

I guess they didn't get to replace all of them just yet. Obviously they need quite high resolution cameras in order to clearly capture the number on the plate, cameras which weren't exactly available until recently. Probably they will soon replace the "manual" toll booths with the new camera ones. They need to be improved especially if they are around big cities like Oslo .

An interesting thing would be to make a computer program that "reads" car numbers, so the system would be fully automated, but that's not exactly an easy task, it would involve pattern recognition and advanced statistics.

You are very right! In fact that was a major argument for changing our car licenseplates (the fonts) one year ago, so many bills were mailed the wrong persons because such cameras was not always able to differ the digits 0, 3, 6, 8 and 9 when captured in 90 - 130 km/h.

[ChrisZwolle]

An interesting thing would be to make a computer program that "reads" car numbers, so the system would be fully automated, but that's not exactly an easy task, it would involve pattern recognition and advanced statistics.

That exists for many years in the Netherlands. Fines from fixed speed traps and stretch controles are fully automated. I think it exists elswhere too.

[wyqtor]

That exists for many years in the Netherlands. Fines from fixed speed traps and stretch controles are fully automated. I think it exists elswhere too.

Not here in Eastern Europe, that's for sure :) ! I had no idea there were such advanced systems in the Netherlands, or anywhere else for that matter :nuts: . You guys would probably have the best motorway system in the world if it were also adapted to current capacity!

[Norsko]

That exists for many years in the Netherlands. Fines from fixed speed traps and stretch controles are fully automated. I think it exists elswhere too.

We ve got those speed traps everyehere! They stand closer (at least almost :) ) than light posts along our roads :weird:

[NorthStar77]

^ they can be a pain in the ass sometimes.

Some photos from the bus Kristiansand-Oslo, taken with my old crappy camera a couple of years ago. It's not so much highway-photos, as it is view from the highway-photos, wich may not be so interesting in this forum.

Of the 330 km between Kristiansand and Oslo, only about 100 km is class A motorway(4 lanes), less than 100 km is class B motorway(2-3 lanes), and the rest is old roads in poor condition. In a few years, we'll have more than 50 km new class A motorway though.

Topdalsfjord in Kristiansand
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010015.jpg

Varodd-bridges in Kristiansand
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010016.jpg

Gas station at Lillesand, E18 on the left...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010031.jpg

Driving over a brigde in Telemark
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010050.jpg

Lake Farris at Larvik
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010052.jpg

This cafe is now abandoned, as a new motorway is under construction that will replace this piece of E18.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010054.jpg

Typical south-eastern Norway countryside
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010064.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010062.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010063.jpg

Finally on the motorway!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010065.jpg

Same cafe as shown by igorlan
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010066.jpg

Typical view
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010067.jpg

Same toll-station as shown by igorlan, only from the other side :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010068.jpg

Drammen
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010074.jpg

Asker trainstation
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010080.jpg

The old IKEA before it got renovated
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010082.jpg

Sandvika, where I work
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010087.jpg

A special house
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010090.jpg

One of the countless office-buildings lying near E18 out of Oslo westwards. This is Tandberg HQ, I think.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010092.jpg

Another one, this is Software Innovation
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010093.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010095.jpg

At the toll-station in Oslo
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010096.jpg

At Skøyen
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010099.jpg

Mansions in western parts of Oslo, some used as embassies
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010104.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010103.jpg

Coming out of Festningstunnellen(the fortress tunnel)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010107.jpg

Oslo stock exhange
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010109.jpg

Oslo central station and Posthuset
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010110.jpg

On Bispelokket, a roundabout raised above E18
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010113.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/E18/P1010116.jpg

I hope they were of some interest

[ChrisZwolle]

It's not so much highway-photos, as it is view from the highway-photos, wich may not be so interesting in this forum.

That's okay. Not only the road is interesting, but also the setting! :)

[wyqtor]

^^ Some of us (i.e., me! :D) are here on this forum as much for the actual motorways as for pictures of other places!

If you have more photos, do not hesitate to post them when you have time! :) Norway is such a beautiful country and, the more pictures, the better!

[x-type]

i allways remember the book Hitchhikers Guide to Galaxy when there is said something about creationing the world and the part where creators got full freedom is - Norway! fantastic terrain!!! and cities looks really nice, i really like those pix!!!

[NorthStar77]

i allways remember the book Hitchhikers Guide to Galaxy when there is said something about creationing the world and the part where creators got full freedom is - Norway! fantastic terrain!!! and cities looks really nice, i really like those pix!!!

Hehe, the terrain between Kristiansand and Oslo is described as boring compared to most other parts of Norway ;)

[Verso]

Great pix again! I especially like those rough rocks by the road.

Hehe, the terrain between Kristiansand and Oslo is described as boring compared to most other parts of Norway ;)Then it's high-time to take camera in your hands and get going. ;)

[NorthStar77]

Okay then;)

Here are some photos from E16, between Oslo and Bergen, that I took last summer.

On Filefjell
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer116.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer119.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer120.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer122.jpg

Down from Filefjell to Lærdal
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer125.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer127.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer130.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer132.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer135.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer136.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer137.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer138.jpg

Inside the world's longest tunnel(atleast for normal traffic), Lærdalstunnellen, 24.5km long.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer143.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer145.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer147.jpg

Torrential rain caused several earth-slides, and we had to wait for hours for the road to open again. For a while, there were rumours that some people were stuck inside some of the slides.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer150.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer152.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer153.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer154.jpg

A gravel road to the right of us here, had just been washed away...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer158.jpg

Bonus pics from the same trip, Bergen and Besseggen
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer229.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer040.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer060.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer081.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer077.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer082.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer089.jpg

[Verso]

^^ Beautiful. :) How many hours did it take you, considering you got stuck? And a couple of questions about the Lærdalstunnellen: what's the speed limit, and I've heard it lies on the main road between Oslo and Bergen (well, obviously you also used it), but to me it looks too north, isn't there another road more southerly and therefore shorter?

[ChrisZwolle]

There is also the E134 from Oslo to Haugesund, but you have to take a ferry.

[Verso]

Aha, I thought so; so I suppose the E134 was the main road Oslo-Bergen before the tunnel was built. But I see there's a road also over the tunnel, so I guess it was possible to get to Bergen without taking a ferry already before. Am I right?

[Þróndeimr]

Yes, but they usually don't bother with people driving 10-20km/h faster than the limit on the high standard motorways, only on the roads of poorer standards, where there are more accidents.

I am sure, I've driven on the roads out of Oslo many times ;)

Yeah, traffic easilly go up to 100km/h-120km/h on the highways with speed limit 90km/h. But the police has taken many recently even on these roads (i think its ridicilous, more understandable in 60km/h and less).

A few/loads pics i have taken from different highways and roads in Norway, mostly in Trøndelag, or around Trondheim.

New E6 south of Trondheim.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/cityz/Norway/P9290001small.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Trondelag/P9290020small.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Trondelag/P9290056small.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Trondelag/P9290106small.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Trondelag/P9290125small.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/cityq/Norway%20and%20Nature/PA080137small.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/cityq/Norway%20and%20Nature/PA080018smalla.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/cityq/Norway%20and%20Nature/PA080177small.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Trondelag/P9140069small.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Trondelag/P9020043small.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Trondelag/P8060158small1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Trondelag/P8060170small.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Trondelag/P8060161small.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Trondelag/P8060015small.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/cityx/Augusttrip/DSCN4471small.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/cityx/Augusttrip/DSCN4519small5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/cityx/Augusttrip/DSCN4516small5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/cityx/Augusttrip/TrollstigenPanorama2small-1.jpg

Lærdalstunnellen, the world longest tunnel.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/cityx/Augusttrip/DSCN4566small.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/cityx/Augusttrip/DSCN4575small.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/cityq/JulyTrip/a6small.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Trondelag/SteinkjerPanorama1small.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Trondelag/DSCN7821small.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Leksvik/DSCN6418small.jpg

Maybe not that many highway pics! ;)

[nazrey]

Love this one...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/cityq/Norway%20and%20Nature/PA080137small.jpg

[Verso]

Norway photo boom! :D

[NorthStar77]

How many hours did it take you, considering you got stuck?
We didn't drive the whole way in one day. And when I think of it, we didn't drive from Oslo either. We spent two nights near Besseggen, since we walked it, then we spent one night at some friends that lives on the place before Filefjell. The next day, we had planned to drive to Bergen, only to stop in Lærdal, where I have family. But because we stopped for 3-4 hours, we had to spend the night in Voss, before finally driving to Bergen the next day. I think it is possible to drive Oslo-Bergen in 7 hours, if you don't have any stops.


And a couple of questions about the Lærdalstunnellen: what's the speed limit
I think it is 80km/h.

But the police has taken many recently even on these roads
I haven't heard about any controlls on the 4 lane highways down here. Most people drive above the speedlimit on E6 towards Gardemoen and E18 in Vestfold. Many people, especially Audi-owners, drive 140-150 easily, and they get angry if you get in their way, even if you drive 120-130..



Btw, here are two photos from the trip back. This is 1/2 hour or so before entering the Lærdaltunnel driving from Bergen.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer263.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/northstar77/sommerferie%202006/sommer261.jpg

[Jeroen669]

@Qazaq: amazing pictures! The nature in Norway seems so overwhelmingly beautiful. Damn, I would love to drive there once...

Can you tell us more about the exact locations of the pictures?

[x-type]

There is also the E134 from Oslo to Haugesund, but you have to take a ferry.

you can also use road 50 and 7 to come from Bergen to Oslo. in that case you're even not going too far to north. the other question is what is the condition of that road

[Þróndeimr]

@Qazaq: amazing pictures! The nature in Norway seems so overwhelmingly beautiful. Damn, I would love to drive there once...

Can you tell us more about the exact locations of the pictures?

Sorry for my late reply, here is a map and link to some of the photos.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/cityx/Other/Norwegianhighwaysexpl.jpg

1. Coastal roads (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Trondelag/P8060170small.jpg), this one going out to Stokkøya island.

2. A normal road (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Trondelag/P9020043small.jpg) if you happend to visit the village of Leksvik, where im currently living!

3. E6 south of Trondheim towards Oslo (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/cityz/Norway/P9290001small.jpg)

4. Road from Ålen to Stuggudal (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Trondelag/P9290020small.jpg), a road going across some highlands towards the Sylene mountains, only open during summer.

5. E6 between Dovre mountains (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/cityq/Norway%20and%20Nature/PA080018smalla.jpg) and the alpine-town of Oppdal.

6. Main road (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/cityx/Augusttrip/DSCN4471small.jpg) down Sunndalen, from Oppdal to the town of Sunndalsøra.

7. Trollstigen (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/cityx/Augusttrip/TrollstigenPanorama2small-1.jpg), by far the most famous road in Norway, and a very popular tourist attraction. You should drive here, take "The Golden Rout" which will lead you through Trollstigen, and south to the world's most famous fjord, Geirangerfjorden where you will find roads which is very similar to Trollstigen with great climbs up across mountains etc. Highly recommended!

8. Road up to Juvasshytta (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/cityq/Norway%20and%20Nature/PA080137small.jpg). This is actually the highest road in Norway, going up to 1 841m Its only open during summer naturally, as there is a summer skiing restort on a glacier up there. If you want to drive up, expect a temperature difference as the road starts at 500m in the valley, and from there its constant uphill all the way up. A recommended place to go when you first are here!

9. Lærdalstunellen (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/cityx/Augusttrip/DSCN4566small.jpg), the world longest tunnel. You might drive through this one if you are going to Bergen.

[Jeroen669]

Sorry for my late reply, here is a map and link to some of the photos.

Doesn't matter. Thanks for your comments anyway! :)

[Jean Luc]

I can't believe that Norway doesn't spend some of its vast oil wealth on building better roads! Other countries would love to have this at their disposal to improve their infrastructure.

[Svartmetall]

^^ Why when the market is good would they want to do this? Norway has the "oil fund" to tide it over for the future. What better thing to do than to save for a rainy day?

In a global downturn, investment in local infrastructure tends to offset joblessness and help buoy up the local economy so they are very wise to save for now.

[AmiDelf]

It takes about 10 hours with car from Bergen to Oslo. Same from Oslo to Trondheim and Oslo to Stavanger.

With a bit luck ;) you can drive these distances in 6 hours or so. Some people loves to speedrace over Hardangervidda in the summertime etc. Then it takes shorter time.

Norway roads:
2 way roads without yellow stripe: 40%
2 way roads with yellow stripe in the middle: 30%
2 way highway with yellow stripe in the middle: 10%
4 way expressway: 10%
4 way highway: 10%

E6 for example, is a 2 lane road from Finmark to Trondheim. From Bergen to Oslo it`s only 6% is highway .. From Oslo to Stavanger only 20%, From Oslo to Trondheim 25%

If you want to drive between Stavanger and Bergen and Trondheim etc. Then its no highways at all. Maybe 2% as Bergen and Stavanger got some short 4 lane highways.

[Maxx☢Power]

^^ Why when the market is good would they want to do this? Norway has the "oil fund" to tide it over for the future. What better thing to do than to save for a rainy day?

In a global downturn, investment in local infrastructure tends to offset joblessness and help buoy up the local economy so they are very wise to save for now.

A good infrastructure is also essential for a good economy, so it would be a very wise investment for Norway to improve roads, rail and other transport infrastructure. The resentment to building motorways is purely ideological and not based on any version of reality.

[virgule82]

The main problem we have in Norway is a labor shortage. With an unemployment rate of 1.8% it's hard for the government to spend extensively on infrastructure without driving up wages and inflation. That is why we're not building more highways despite all our money.

[x-type]

Norway is not a transit country and in that i see the reason why they don't put too much on their motorways

[Paddington]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/cityx/Augusttrip/DSCN4519small5.jpg

http://larsvdloo.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/img_4755-custom.jpg

:cheers1:

[Verso]

^^ Man, that's cute! :D

[54°26′S 3°24′E]

It takes about 10 hours with car from Bergen to Oslo. Same from Oslo to Trondheim and Oslo to Stavanger.

With a bit luck ;) you can drive these distances in 6 hours or so. Some people loves to speedrace over Hardangervidda in the summertime etc. Then it takes shorter time.

Norway roads:
2 way roads without yellow stripe: 40%
2 way roads with yellow stripe in the middle: 30%
2 way highway with yellow stripe in the middle: 10%
4 way expressway: 10%
4 way highway: 10%

E6 for example, is a 2 lane road from Finmark to Trondheim. From Bergen to Oslo it`s only 6% is highway .. From Oslo to Stavanger only 20%, From Oslo to Trondheim 25%

If you want to drive between Stavanger and Bergen and Trondheim etc. Then its no highways at all. Maybe 2% as Bergen and Stavanger got some short 4 lane highways.

There is no doubt that Norwegian highways are crap by any standard, but especially when thinking about our GDP and the large need for good infrastructure we have in this 2000 km long country at the edge of the world.

However, Amidelf, you are exaggerating a bit here.

Firstly, you write highway when you probably mean motorway/freeway. (Small English course is given at the end of this message. ) And yes, there is a high way running along the Norwegian coast from Stavanger to Trondheim (E-39), although there are still many ferries and it is very narrow and winding at places.

Secondly, even with my mother in law in the back seat I would not need 10 hours between Oslo and Trondheim, more like 6 hours with mostly legal non-stop driving using the fastest route E6-Rv 3-E6 (Østerdalen). However, only roughly 10 % is actually motorway, with another almost 20 % being expressway. They have just started to upgrade most of the expressway to motorway, though.

To the fundamental question, why Norwegian roads are so bad, and probably will remain bad for years to come, the answer is quite complex, and I will have to wait to give a complete answer to that, but it has a lot to do with priorities, both among politicians and the public. However, it is a misunderstanding that building roads in Norway is particularly expensive. Granted, we do have to dig a lot of tunnels (current length of Norwegian tunnels roughly 850 km I believe) and build a lot of bridges (current total bridge length roughly 450 km?) to build good roads, and the fundations also have to be a lot deeper than further south due to the frost and because water tend to stay close to the surface many places. However, building roads are cheaper at desolate places, and cost per km in Norway is just a little bit over the European average, and much lower than for instance Denmark or UK. On the other hand, we need a lot more km per capita in Norway than those countries.....

Today's norsk-English course:
highway=hovedvei, f. eks. europavei, riksvei eller fylkesvei
freeway/motorway=motorvei (tidligere motorvei klasse A))

[AmiDelf]

This is how it is!

small road - road with white stripes on the sides. Lots of them in Norway
normal road - normal roads with yellow stripes in the middle
expressway - 4 lane road. Something in between avenue and highway class A. You have them in Oslo. Like Ring 3.
highway class B - normal roads with yellow stripes in the middle, but with highway ramps on and off to the road. no traffic lights etc.
highway class A - 4 lane road. 2 lanes in each direction

then we have:
avenues - 2 or 4 lane roads. With either tram in the middler or just grass. Some sections between Svinesund and Oslo. Have blocks in the middle dividing the road. Makes it impossible to bypass.

There is no highway from Stavanger to Trondheim. Its normal road. Lots of small road parts and as you say ferries.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Autoroute_F.svg/150px-Autoroute_F.svg.png
An International highway sign, found mainly in Europe denoting the start of special motorway restrictions to a section of highway.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Motortrafikled1.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/MMLNorr1.JPG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/E20_2plus1_west_of_Skara.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a9/Alternating3rdlane.jpg
This is a typical class B highway. Sometimes it have 2 + 1 lane without divider, other times it got.

A two-lane freeway or two-lane expressway is a freeway or expressway with only one lane in each direction, and usually no median barrier. It may be built that way because of constraints, or may be intended for expansion once traffic volumes rise.

[ChrisZwolle]

^^ Man, that's cute! :D

Never seen Lombard Street in San Francisco? :)

[Alex Von Königsberg]

By the way, Lombard street looks cool only from that perspective, but if you get to drive it, there will be nothing ordinary (except the slope of the descent/ascent) about it.

[54°26′S 3°24′E]

This is how it is!

small road - road with white stripes on the sides. Lots of them in Norway
normal road - normal roads with yellow stripes in the middle
expressway - 4 lane road. Something in between avenue and highway class A. You have them in Oslo. Like Ring 3.
highway class B - normal roads with yellow stripes in the middle, but with highway ramps on and off to the road. no traffic lights etc.
highway class A - 4 lane road. 2 lanes in each direction

then we have:
avenues - 2 or 4 lane roads. With either tram in the middler or just grass. Some sections between Svinesund and Oslo. Have blocks in the middle dividing the road. Makes it impossible to bypass.

There is no highway from Stavanger to Trondheim. Its normal road. Lots of small road parts and as you say ferries.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Autoroute_F.svg/150px-Autoroute_F.svg.png
An International highway sign, found mainly in Europe denoting the start of special motorway restrictions to a section of highway.

<some (mostly Norwegian) highway pictures
This is a typical class B highway. Sometimes it have 2 + 1 lane without divider, other times it got.

A two-lane freeway or two-lane expressway is a freeway or expressway with only one lane in each direction, and usually no median barrier. It may be built that way because of constraints, or may be intended for expansion once traffic volumes rise.

I suggest you consult a dictionary if you do not believe me (after living several years in English-speaking countries) when I say that the word "highway" just means a main road in English, as opposed to your driveway or residential street, and that it could have any standard, gravel even. Or as Merrian-Webster defines it:
Main Entry:
high·way
Pronunciation:
\ˈhī-ˌwā\
Function:
noun
Date:
before 12th century
: a public way; especially : a main direct road

I don't think there were many motorways back in the 12th century. There is by the way nothing called "Motorvei klasse A" or "Motorvei klasse B" anymore, they are called "Motorvei" and "Motortrafikkvei". This was due to the realization that Motorway "class B" was really not a motorway as most countries defines it, but it could pass as expressways. Most of them has a shoulder though, so I am not sure if your last picture is really "motortrafikkvei" or expressroad. The new definitions are quite similar to what you find in Sweden ("Motorväg" and "Motortrafikled" if I am not mistaken). As you point out, there are also some roads, mostly urban, that are not classified as motorways, but which are dual carriage (4 lanes or more with seperated traffic) and motorway-like intersections, like Østre Aker vei, Ring 3, some parts of E-18 and the Vålerenga tunnel road in Oslo, and the E6 going past Trondheim. In most countries these would probably be called motorways, so it would probably be right to call them highways with motorway characteristics.

I think the original meaning of "Avenue" is a road lined with trees. In the English speaking world of today it is however used in street names for any street, usually residential. The word has nothing to do with Norwegian highway standards whatsoever.

[AmiDelf]

You can say what you want. But I found my sources on Wikipedia. So whatever you think and I think. We have different opinions about this. I have been in English speaking countries also.

Highway is as much as a motorway. So dont tell me any fuzz about whats right or wrong here ;p

[54°26′S 3°24′E]

^^ I am just trying to help you out so people actually can understand what you are writing. Not that I consider wikipedia as an authority (neither should you, keep to dictionaries and real encyclopedias), but wikipedia presents these roads as examples of highways:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/Indiana-rural-road.jpg/800px-Indiana-rural-road.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bc/Pan-American_Highway-Mancora%2C_Peru.jpg/200px-Pan-American_Highway-Mancora%2C_Peru.jpg
Now, are these motorways? Of course, all motorways are highways, but far from all highways are motorways.

Edit: Now I understand what you mean. You are thinking about the motorway sign. Well, it says that the sign is an International highway sign for motorway, just like this http://www.75b.luna.nl/BumpyRoad.gif is an international highway sign for bumpy road and this http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1285000/images/_1286984_cattle.150.jpg is an international highway sign for cattle on the road. You get it?

To confuse you guys even more: Here are the official profiles as of 2007 to be applied in new projects on the main (i.e. interregional) highways in Norway:
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9817/s1axh3.jpg
S1: ADT< 4 000, 60 km/h
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/552/s1bs2s3xs3.jpg
(S1: 4 000 < ADT 12 000, 60 km/h) & (S2: ADT < 4 000, 80 km/h) & (S3: ADT < 4 000, 90 km/h)
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9922/s4dg2.jpg
S4: 4 000 < ADT < 8 000, 80 km/h, expressway (motortrafikkvei)
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/3466/s5wi6.jpg
S5: 8 000 < ADT < 12 000, 90 km/h, expressway (motortrafikkvei)
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9600/s5forbipf3.jpg
Passing lane for S5
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1567/s5forbi2wf2.jpg
Passing lanes in both directions for S5
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/8012/s6cf0.jpg
S6: ADT > 12 000, 60 km/h
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/3182/s7it3.jpg
S7: ADT > 12 000, 80 km/h, motorway
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/6515/s8bt3.jpg
S8: 12 000< ADT < 20 000, 100 km/h, motorway
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/8606/s9gs8.jpg
S8: ADT > 20 000 , 100 km/h, motorway (there are talks about increasing the speed limit to 110 km/h for these roads)

ADT numbers are to be estimated 30 years ahead of time (i.e. 30 years life time is used), but the prognoses they are using have been notorious in the past in underestimating the traffic growth, and are more an expression of political wishful thinking than reality. For high traffic roads (i.e. in Oslo, Stavanger, Bergen and Trondheim) more than 4 lanes are of course considered. The lower classes, i.e. S1, S6 and S7 are to be used only in urban areas or other places where there may be environmental or other restrictions. There are of course also many other differences between the standards, but there is no point in going into detail here...

The problem is, that a very small percentage of the current Norwegian roads keep to this standard, and with the current funding, it will take 50 years to get there.

[Maxx☢Power]

54°26′S 3°24′E is right, a highway is just any road that's the main road between two destinations. It can be a normal, two-lane road or it can be a full-on motorway with restricted access and grade-separated intersections.

Not that it matters, the roads and most other transport infrastructure in Norway are still shit.

[Verso]

all motorways are highwaysI even think it's possible to say that not ALL motorways are highways, if there's a motorway that really isn't important. Now, you probably wonder why they would build a motorway, if it's not important. Well, I don't have a clue, but it may happen (and I'm sure there's plenty of examples like this in the world) that a motorway just became unimportant after a while, or maybe because of some unusual event.

[ChrisZwolle]

I don't think there are a lot of completely useless motorways. However i'm not sure why the hell they build the A571 and A573 near Bad Neuenahr in Germany. The roads don't even connect with it's parent number (A5 or A57).

[Verso]

^ I certainly wouldn't call these two 'highways'. :) About that street in SF: I think I've already seen it, but probably just once, and I didn't know where to put it.

[TheCat]

I don't think any of the posters have been 100% right about the word "highway". The official definition is indeed any road. However, the common usage of the word differs significantly from place to place. In the US and Canada, the words "freeway" and "highway" are often used to refer to motorways. In Toronto, if people say they will "take the highway", it means that they will take the motorway, even though we also have a network of provincial highways, most of which are not motorways. We also have some expressways in the city that function as streets but have names such as "Highway 7". But still, if one uses the word "highway" without specifying a specific highway number, the meaning is "motorway" (in Toronto, it usually means a 400-series highway). The word "motorway" is actually not used at all in North America, and I never heard it used here, nor have I ever used it in speech, except for this forum.

[Alex Von Königsberg]

Even in different US states people refer to highways/freeways differently. In California, almost everyone refers to motorways as "freeways", but I have heard that in the East, they almost exclusively use word "highway" for both ordinary highways and motorways. Even in Washington, they sometimes call I-90 a highway. In British Columbia, locals told me to take "Highway 1" when they meant Trans-Canada Highway which is in fact a motorway in Vancouver Metro area.

[ChrisZwolle]

I usually refer to "motorways" as in freeway, autopista, autobahn, expressway etc. So roads or highways with motorway-standards. In US topics, i'd rather use the word Freeway or expressway, since the word "motorway" isn't used in the United States.

I refer to other roads as "highway" or just "road".

[x-type]

i use motorway (i prefer british english) for autobahn.
highway is for me more important road, something like some kind of arteria, which connects some larger distances. it is not neccesserly a motorway (autobahn).

[54°26′S 3°24′E]

I don't think any of the posters have been 100% right about the word "highway". The official definition is indeed any road. However, the common usage of the word differs significantly from place to place. In the US and Canada, the words "freeway" and "highway" are often used to refer to motorways. In Toronto, if people say they will "take the highway", it means that they will take the motorway, even though we also have a network of provincial highways, most of which are not motorways. We also have some expressways in the city that function as streets but have names such as "Highway 7". But still, if one uses the word "highway" without specifying a specific highway number, the meaning is "motorway" (in Toronto, it usually means a 400-series highway). The word "motorway" is actually not used at all in North America, and I never heard it used here, nor have I ever used it in speech, except for this forum.
Well, it's no news that people may be a bit sloppy when they talk. It doesn't make it right though. I think the cause of much of the confusion regarding this, is that an important part of the US highway network, the interstate highways, per definition are freeways. But still the majority (federal, state and county highways) are generally not freeways. BTW, can you call a toll road a freeway? (The places I have lived in the US have had no toll roads). After all, they are not free, and these projects in the US are usually for some reason called either parkways (although they are no good neither for use as a park or parking) or the even more mysterious turnpike. Well, to avoid any confusion I will stick to motorway regarding Norway at least...

[54°26′S 3°24′E]

This is the 30 year (!) plan of the Norwegian high way authorities regarding the motorway network:
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/8424/firefeltsstrategiiq9.jpg
Red roads will be at least 22 m, whereas yellow will be 19 m. However, as I said, it will take 50 years to get there with the current funding (including upgrade of the gray roads to one of those standards

Currently, the sorry state of Norwegian highways is this:
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/4864/b7mic6.jpg
Roads indicated in red are interregional highways ("stamveger") with less than 7 m width!
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/4092/b6mum0.jpg
This map shows points or stretches with less than 6 m width!

There are of course some people that push for a little bit more than the road authorities. A group called bilaksjonen (http://www.bilaksjonen.no) and some people behind the site bedreveier.no (http://www.bedreveier.no) are pushing for this motorway network in Norway:
http://www.bedreveier.org/motorvei-den-doble-y-50pst.jpg.
They call it "The double Y", and is roughly 2000 km long. So far the only supportive party however is the rightwing "Fremskrittspartiet", and unfortunately the rest of their policies are shit :bash:

The problem in Norway is that investment in roads are not seen as an investment, but an expense. I think Norway should now really focus on their transport infrastructure, both roads and railway, so that we can save more lives and be less dependent on air transport. Hardly any nation flies more than Norway today.

Well that was the plan and an ambition. What about the dreamer? Well, I found this on the internet:
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/77/drommerht0.jpg
Clearly, this is a wet dream of any Norwegian freeway fantast! The coastal road Stavanger-Bergen-Trondheim will be very demanding to build (currently I believe there are 7 ferry crossings on this road), but would probably result in a quite spectacular road. Local politicians are by the way already pushing to remove at least three of these ferries, but I can come back to that later. Personally, I don't think I would have prioritized quite like that guy. For instance, one of the most important interregional roads in Norway today, the Rv 3 which is the road the trucks use between Oslo and Trondheim and beyond, is with all the other freeways in place still a normal two-lane road!

[AmiDelf]

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/8424/firefeltsstrategiiq9.jpg

This image is saying stamveg and not motorvei. I think your out in the woods talking about whats wrong or not. People usually use the words that they feel is right. There might be grammar talks everywhere.. but almost no one uses them.

People understands each others and thats whats most important. To try to learn adults how to write or talk is just wrong. People talks in different ways. Lech Walensa in Poland is critisized for having bad Polish, but the others who dosent care about that, but rather what he have done for eastern Europe etc. It dosent matter.

Let people learn by themself.

[Maxx☢Power]

It's not criticism, it's just pointing out when someone says banana when they actually mean pumpkin. There are no doubts about the meanings of highway and motorway.

Back on topic; that 30 year plan is not very ambitious. Three of the ten most-trafficked air routes in Europe is in little Norway; I wonder why? It's not because people are so fond of flying, it's because it's the only alternative. In this regard Norway is like a little piece of America in Europe, only the motorways are even worse. Sane politicians are making a big mistake letting those populistic loons in FrP taking advantage of the situation.

[Verso]

Does anyone know the AADT (annual average daily traffic) of the (only?) border crossing with Russia? Of course, an AADT map of the whole Norway would be even better. :D

[TheCat]

Well, it's no news that people may be a bit sloppy when they talk. It doesn't make it right though. I think the cause of much of the confusion regarding this, is that an important part of the US highway network, the interstate highways, per definition are freeways. But still the majority (federal, state and county highways) are generally not freeways. BTW, can you call a toll road a freeway? (The places I have lived in the US have had no toll roads). After all, they are not free, and these projects in the US are usually for some reason called either parkways (although they are no good neither for use as a park or parking) or the even more mysterious turnpike. Well, to avoid any confusion I will stick to motorway regarding Norway at least...

It doesn't really have much to do with sloppiness. The exact definitions of the words "highway" and "road" are really only important in legal contexts, i.e. only in official documentation. It is simply a fact that at least here in Toronto, the word "highway" is most commonly used to refer to a motorway.

Regarding "freeways", it is a quite common misconception, but even if you look at the strictly official definition, a freeway does not have to be free of tolls. A freeway, by definition, is a limited-access, divided road. The word "free" in this context refers to something like "free of intersections". In fact, one website (gbcnet.com) has this interesting excerpt: "The "free" in freeway instead refers to a legislative definition passed by the California Legislature in 1939 which provided for a highway that would be free of encroaching properties and which provided for control of access." In fact, this is probably why, as Alex von Konigsberg has mentioned, "freeway" is used extensively in California, but not necessarily in other states.

But nonetheless, I agree, this has nothing to do with this thread, so I am not going to continue :).

[wyqtor]

This is the 30 year (!) plan of the Norwegian high way authorities regarding the motorway network:
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/8424/firefeltsstrategiiq9.jpg


Are they kidding? There's hardly any change! I hope this "plan" will change very soon.

[Jeroen669]

I can imagine there's no need for a complete network of 4-lane motorways in Norway. But improving 2-lane highways to motorroads (or something like that) with few or no grade intersections, fewer curves and a higher speed limit (like in Germany or even on some stretches in Holland where you're allowed to drive 100km/h) has to possible, I guess.

[54°26′S 3°24′E]

This image is saying stamveg and not motorvei. I think your out in the woods talking about whats wrong or not. People usually use the words that they feel is right. There might be grammar talks everywhere.. but almost no one uses them.

You are right. The map is showing the proposed standards for the "stamveg"s in Norway. "Stamveg" is a bureaucratic term used for a road that connects one region of Norway to the other, and the map shows them all. However, if you look at the profiles above, a 4-lane stamveg shall also be a motorway according to the standards. This is the case for the roads drawn in yellow and red.

My point was not to correct the grammar, but that people who are not familiar to Norway should understand what you write, which should also be in your interest. (Please also correct me if I my message could be misunderstood). The way you put it it sounded like there was almost no roads outside the Oslo-area. I could perhaps have used the "private messages" system instead, though, and thus avoided all the fuss, but I am new, so I wasn't familiar with this system.
[/QUOTE]


Back on topic; that 30 year plan is not very ambitious.

Especially considering:
1. Only two regions are connected with 4-lane roads, Eastern Norway and the small southern Norway (Sørlandet).
2. There was an almost identical plan in the 1960s, that was to be implented within 1980. Now, almost 50 years later the horizont for this is still 30 years ahead...
3. Actually, during the occupation, the Germans laid out a detailed plan for a real Autobahn in 1942 between Oslo and Trondheim going through Østerdalen. This road should serve the "Neu Drontheim" project I guess, where the Germans planned to establish a new city of 350 000 inhabitants right outside the old city to support their extensive navy bases in the Trondheim fjord. Luckily, "Neu Drontheim" never materialized, but it would be great to have the road, though....
Does anyone know the AADT (annual average daily traffic) of the (only?) border crossing with Russia? Of course, an AADT map of the whole Norway would be even better. :D
Check http://svvgw.vegvesen.no/http://svvnvdbappp.vegvesen.no:7778/webinnsyn/anon/index. It's all in Norwegian, but you get the data you need by ticking off "Trafikkmengde" in the "Trafikkdata" menu at the left. The particular road you are asking about looks like it still has AADT<500 though, although I believe it has increased a lot from what it used to be (i.e. nil). Actually, Kirkenes is trying to position itself as a harbor that could service the planned offshore oil development on the Russian side. Their work would be greatly eased, however, if the Russian railway 40-50 km away could be extended to the Norwegian port.

Edit: You need to zoom in quite a bit to get access to the trafic data.
It is simply a fact that at least here in Toronto, the word "highway" is most commonly used to refer to a motorway.

That would probably not be the case though, if you lived in an area far from the closest freeway (which I have done in the US).

Regarding "freeways", it is a quite common misconception, but even if you look at the strictly official definition, a freeway does not have to be free of tolls. A freeway, by definition, is a limited-access, divided road. The word "free" in this context refers to something like "free of intersections". In fact, one website (gbcnet.com) has this interesting excerpt: "The "free" in freeway instead refers to a legislative definition passed by the California Legislature in 1939 which provided for a highway that would be free of encroaching properties and which provided for control of access."

I suspected this was the case, so I guess it's only due to fear of ridicule that politicians never dear to name new toll roads as freeways, but rather parkways, turnpikes, distributor, and thruways etc.
Are they kidding? There's hardly any change! I hope this "plan" will change very soon.
I hope so too, but the plan would still probably double the length of motorways in Norway, in about 50 years.....
I can imagine there's no need for a complete network of 4-lane motorways in Norway. But improving 2-lane highways to motorroads (or something like that) with few or no grade intersections, fewer curves and a higher speed limit (like in Germany or even on some stretches in Holland where you're allowed to drive 100km/h) has to possible, I guess.
Actually, economists have calculated that a (4-lane) motorway network connecting the population centers in the southern half of Norway would save 62 billion NOK (8.2 billion Euros or 11.5 billion USD) a year, and many lives. The ballpark figure of much it would cost to build the 2000 km double-y-network that would connect 90 % of the population of southern Norway is 100 billion NOK. Even is this estimate, which is based on costs of recent Swedish motorways ++, is off by a factor of two, this would be a very good investment. To illustrate what these figures means in real terms for Norway:

*62 billion NOK is twice the Norwegian defense budget
*The cost of a recent offshore development finnished this year (Ormen Lange) was 66 billion NOK. There are many of these...
*The projected SURPLUS of the Norwegian national budget of 2007 is 375 billion NOK
*At the end of next year, the Norwegian government will have roughly 2 500 billion NOK invested in funds abroad.

New research has also shown that as new roads in the cities usually mean larger emission due to increased traffic, this is not true for interregional roads. Traveling frequency seems relatively unaffected by road standard. Thus, enhanced interregional roads will greatly reduce emissions because fuel efficiency is very low in the often clogged and almost always winding Norwegian roads.

I however also support the development of a high speed train network in Norway, which the current government seems to support, since this will greatly reduce our dependence on air-travel on point-to-point travel between the cities, as discussed by MaxxPower above. The estimated cost of such a network is 200-300 billion NOK for southern Norway. However, these trains can only make a few stops, and cannot serve the whole country, a family on their trip to their cabin, or, most importan, the truck traffic.

I realize that the biggest hurdle is not money, but getting enough hands to build the infrastructure. However, I believe this is a matter of priority, and the use of foreign construction companies would probably ease the inflationary pressure. In any case the projections are that there will be even less hands in the future, so there won't come a "better" time.

[Maxx☢Power]

3. Actually, during the occupation, the Germans laid out a detailed plan for a real Autobahn in 1942 between Oslo and Trondheim going through Østerdalen. This road should serve the "Neu Drontheim" project I guess

Ein Neu-Drontheim für Neuropa. I guess they should've stayed on a bit longer to build some proper roads..

[54°26′S 3°24′E]

(disregard)

[54°26′S 3°24′E]

There is a road to the Nordkapp yes. But don't expect motorway-like roads. The roads are very quiet, Norway is large and has only a population of 4.3 million. Especially north of Trondheim.

But the usual road from Europe to the Nordkapp is through Sweden and Finland, because that's shorter.
I hope I am not offending any more people here, but driving through the huge forests Northern Finland and Sweden is not my kind of fun, and Nordkapp (North Cape) is a tourist trap. I mean, the cliff is nice enough, but it's not that special compared with many other places in Norway, and you have to pay a large sum to share the view with loads of German and Japanes tourist buses. And on top of it all: It's not even the northernmost point in Norway!

If I was coming from continental Europe on my one and only great trip of the northern Scandinavia I would certainly take it easy and follow the Norwegian coast as long as my money and time last, then use the excellent Finnish and Swedish highways back home. I would rather spend time in southern Sweden than in Lappland.
Ein Neu-Drontheim für Neuropa. I guess they should've stayed on a bit longer to build some proper roads..
Well, the problem was of course the "slightly" unethical way the nazis excersized their construction projects. Even the much less ambitious (but still substantial) projects they did complete cost the life of at least 15 000 POWs from Eastern Europe, mostly Soviet Union and Yugoslavia, in comparison "only" 10 000 Norwegians (including Norwegian Jews) died during the occupation.

[Verso]

But the usual road from Europe to the Nordkapp is through Sweden and Finland, because that's shorter.Really? IIRC, Slovenian agencies offer it driving in Norway all the time in one direction, and visiting Santa Claus in Rovaniemi (Finland) in the other. :lol: But I don't like the gap by Tyssfjorden; will it ever get bridged or bypassed?

[snupix]

Really? IIRC, Slovenian agencies offer it driving in Norway all the time in one direction, and visiting Santa Claus in Rovaniemi (Finland) in the other. :lol: But I don't like the gap by Tyssfjorden; will it ever get bridged or bypassed?

If I remember correctly, it was a relatively long ride with a small ferry. This sentence explains it all. Long ride - very expensive to bypass; small ferry - low traffic. :)

[54°26′S 3°24′E]

Really? IIRC, Slovenian agencies offer it driving in Norway all the time in one direction, and visiting Santa Claus in Rovaniemi (Finland) in the other. :lol: But I don't like the gap by Tyssfjorden; will it ever get bridged or bypassed?

There are as still many fjord-crossings left to do in Norway, many places the problem is that fjords are deep (typically 300-1000 m) and that they could be several km wide, making bridging impossible and tunnels quite expensive. I might come back to some of the bigger proposed projects later on. What I can say about Tyssfjord is that it currently is not on top of the list. Although it would symbolically finally connect the road network of the northernmost counties to the rest of the country, the traffic is quite low, and most traffic from northernmost to south Norway will still drive through Finland and Sweden because it is both shorter and faster (remember that Kirkenes is further east than Instanbul!). However, a project that is more likely to be built in a few years is a bridge across Rombakfjorden a few km longer north:
Video: mms://showtime.modulnet.com/haalogalandsbrua/Haalogalandsbrua_Virtual_Tour.wmv
http://www.haalogalandsbrua.no/bildearkiv/bilde_1_2_web.jpg
http://www.haalogalandsbrua.no/bildearkiv/bilde_1_7_web.jpg
http://www.haalogalandsbrua.no/bildearkiv/bilde_4_16_web.jpg
The bridge will be the 7th longest suspension bridge in the world, with a total length of 1550 m and largest span of 1345 m. However, by separating the lanes, I guess, and thus making it stiffer, they manage to keep the cost down to 2 billion kroner. I am not convinced it is worth paying that much for shorting the E6 up there with only 20 km, though...

As a Norwegian I resist the idea of Santa Claus being Finnish. St. Nicholas belongs in Turkey, however the Yule-"nisse" (as we call the guy in red outfit) belongs in Norway as all other "nisser":banana:

[Verso]

^ Actually, they visit Norwegian Santa. :D
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