Pier 27 | Proposed | ?? st | ??? m | Downtown

[thryve]

Saw it on urbantoronto... right on the water at the start of Yonge? I can't describe how cool I think this is! (Whatever it is...)

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j145/gbelan/pier27.jpg

[Taller, Better]

It does look nice, doesn't it? Can't wait to see a full render.

[G_DOG]

i think this is the site
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j145/gbelan/toh2006_178.jpg

[thryve]

I mean, I know we get alot of developments these days... but one right on the water, at the foot of Yonge?

That's rare! :cheers: :banana:

[greenbuttskunk]

Am I the only one who thinks that the remaining waterfront space should be developed as public space if possible, rather than private condos?

[kettal]

Apri| Foo|s.

I hope?

[Filip]

Nop I remember seeing that same renderning months ago. I'm dissapointed that the land will not be used for a museum of some sorts. I'm not a big fan of pure parks on the waterfront - I prefer having the city by the water.

[urban 2.0]

Isn't that space designated to be a large urban "square" - for festivals and such? Remember the Toronto Star sold off their portion of the land to the Gov't last summer.

[valantino]

^a small corner right at the foot of Yonge

[phunky]

What happened to no more private developments along the waterfront? This pisses me off.

[cassius]

Who ever said there would be no more private developments along the waterfront???

[phunky]

The media and I believe the waterfront plan.

[tkip]

It doesn't look like a very large project. About 8 floors there? Hardly some monster development that will swallow acres of land down there.

[thryve]

Yeah, it looks like about 10 floors.
Isn't it something to be happy about that it's going to soften the Toronto Star Building a little bit, visually?

BTW, do we know when the Toronto Star will outgrow their current building? When I think of that nice new tower the New York Times is building in NYC, (even if they are a way bigger paper!) it makes me wonder.

[valantino]

BTW, do we know when the Toronto Star will outgrow their current building? When I think of that nice new tower the New York Times is building in NYC, (even if they are a way bigger paper!) it makes me wonder.

nice wish however Toronto Star is a 905 company (not to mention NYT is most likely only a lead tenant for someone else's building)

[valantino]

It doesn't look like a very large project. About 8 floors there?

you think they are building only one building on that massive lot?

[G_DOG]

that rendering is just showing the courtyard view to the lake.i think the podium is eight floors (left)and the tower (right)is much taller possibly 30 plus floors.

[thryve]

^^ Have you heard that there will be a taller tower, or is that just what you are hoping for?

How can we find more information about this project? :nuts:

[G_DOG]

i guess it will be in sales soon.because i heard on ut that they are building a sales centre.

[bar1967]

`Cool project' or another affront on waterfront?
TheStar.com - News - `Cool project' or another affront on waterfront?

Angry councillors say their hands tied as 5 buildings slated for foot of Yonge St.

May 12, 2007
Paul Moloney
Jim Byers
City hall bureau

One of the last prime pieces of waterfront real estate in Toronto is about to get the condominium treatment.

The former Marine Terminal 27 site at the foot of Yonge St. is poised to see construction begin on a project the developers hope will eventually total five buildings with 1,500 to 2,000 units.

City councillors are angry about the idea but say it appears there's little they can do to protect one of the last undeveloped parcels on what's supposed to be a jewel-like waterfront. The land is currently a parking lot.

"It's definitely a problem because it continues with the highrises near the water's edge," said Deputy Mayor Joe Pantalone. "But I don't think there's much we can do. We might be able to change a little but we can't affect the density."

Councillor Brian Ashton, chair of council's planning and growth management committee, agreed the city's options are limited. "I don't think city council would find that appropriate, but I don't know what can be done. The last thing people want is a huge curtain of condos near the lake."

But John Campbell, president of the Toronto Waterfront Revitalization Corp., said that won't be the case. "It's not a wall of condos. It's not reminiscent of some of the prevailing waterfront projects that people point to as bad examples."

"Obviously, I'm biased, but I think it's a really cool project," said architect Peter Clewes of Architects Alliance. "If it sells well – which I think it will because it's an extraordinary property – they would start construction very quickly."

A sales centre is to go up soon, with marketing to start early this summer and construction of the first phase over the next 2 1/2 years, Clewes said.

The first phase, totalling 477 units, consists of:


Two 12-storey buildings connected by a two-storey bridge on top, on the Yonge St. side of the property, beside Captain John's restaurant.


A 14-storey building running alongside the Redpath sugar refinery on the east side of the site, basically from the water to Queens Quay. The building would have condos overlooking downtown.

"We actually want to do a lower building, but it depends on working with Redpath and the Ministry of Environment," Clewes said. "There are sound issues that come from Ministry of Environment regulations."

Freeland St., which runs parallel to Yonge ending at Queens Quay, would be extended south into the development, ending in a cul de sac, providing public access from the street to the water's edge, Clewes said.

"What we're going to do from a landscaping perspective is make Freeland more like an urban square," he said.

A landscaped public promenade 25 metres wide would run along the water.

The site was originally owned by what was then the Toronto Harbour Commission. In a controversial move, it was sold in the 1980s to a company called Avro Quay Ltd., which succeeded in getting it rezoned in 1996 for about 1,400 condos.

The development subsequently went to the Ontario Municipal Board, which in 2002 limited heights to 14 storeys while permitting 1,500 to 2,000 units.

Clewes said the actual number will depend on unit size – the bigger the units, the smaller the total number.

Because rezoning permissions have already been granted, the current developers, Cityzen and Fernbrook Homes, need only site plan approval. Those issues are to go to a committee of adjustment hearing on July 4.

"We're substantially in accordance with what was approved there," Clewes said. "These are minor variations we're asking for at committee of adjustment."

Campbell said the site has been privately owned for some time. The waterfront corporation wanted to buy all of it but didn't have enough money. The corporation did buy half a hectare from Torstar, just east of Captain John's, a few years ago for $12.5 million. The site remains a small, fenced-in parking lot.

"We're talking with the developers about how we maybe combine our land with theirs and have more public space," Campbell said. "In the meantime, they're going ahead with the first phase."

Plans aren't clear for the corporation's half-hectare parcel.

"Our intention is to provide something that's a grand space," Campbell said. "We want a destination at the terminus of Yonge St. Not a building, we want a public place; a park or a plaza. But if we work with the developer it might be on a larger scale."

With files from Gail Swainson

[phunky]

I always park at that parking lot when I go to the Guvernment or Koolhaus.
It really is an awesome location to live with the grocery store, entertainment, and really everything right at your fingertips.

But I really think this land should be used for parkspace, not condos.

[kettal]

Fair enough, I just hope these guys realize Queens Quay will be a 1 lane street. That should be a disclaimer on the sales registration.

[Filip]

Rendering of Pier 27 from lxmoss over on UT... Wonderful!

http://www.mossproductions.ca/urbantoronto/pier27_rendering.jpg

[VikkyD]

and for my 100th post :horse:

I'll say something positive that doesn't cause people to question my gender, or my brain capacity........

I like the rendering! huzzah! hope it's real, and hope it happens.....


______________________________________
100 POSTS! (Hey, Gotta start somewhere!)

[rbt]

Fair enough, I just hope these guys realize Queens Quay will be a 1 lane street. That should be a disclaimer on the sales registration.

I've never heard a developer complain about not being able to build enough parking. Most of them complain about being forced to build more parking than they can easily sell.

[phunky]

omg that render is such a tease!!!!

[bar1967]

Fair enough, I just hope these guys realize Queens Quay will be a 1 lane street. That should be a disclaimer on the sales registration.

Why does it matter if QQ is a one lane street?

[KGB]

I don't care so much that there will be buildings on the south side of QQ here, as it will just be an extension of similar buildings around Yonge...the upside is that it might at least partially hide the Toronto Star building. LOL


I always park at that parking lot when I go to the Guvernment or Koolhaus.


Hopefully they tear that passe party warehouse down and build something as well.




KGB

[phunky]

I don't care so much that there will be buildings on the south side of QQ here, as it will just be an extension of similar buildings around Yonge...the upside is that it might at least partially hide the Toronto Star building. LOL





Hopefully they tear that passe party warehouse down and build something as well.




KGB
I hope not! That's one of the best concert venues this city has!

[Filip]

I hope not! That's one of the best concert venues this city has!

Unfortunately it's going too... Part of the East Bayfronts plan! Oh well, guess I'll have to find another place to hit on boxing day LOL

[phunky]

Unfortunately it's going too... Part of the East Bayfronts plan! Oh well, guess I'll have to find another place to hit on boxing day LOL
Really? I still think it will be kept. I don't see it being torn down. Unless they want to kill Toronto's nightlife. The Guvernment complex is a major part of Toronto's nightlife.

[Tuscani01]

Really? I still think it will be kept. I don't see it being torn down. Unless they want to kill Toronto's nightlife. The Guvernment complex is a major part of Toronto's nightlife.

Its going down, the owners of Guv even know their time is short. I hope they relocate though and build it bigger and better. They have done a great job so far.

[phunky]

I still don't believe it. It would fit in with the area so well if it remained. Would make it even more popular.

[valantino]

It would fit in with the area so well if it remained

a yuppie residential area ... I don't think so

[salvius]

Really? I still think it will be kept. I don't see it being torn down. Unless they want to kill Toronto's nightlife. The Guvernment complex is a major part of Toronto's nightlife.

There is ZERO chance that complex is staying with such a wasteful footprint. Get real!

[elliot]

... or get dancing.

When your legs weaken, you'll see the bigger picture and support a new, invigorated waterfront.

[KGB]

The Guv is just another club that locates in cheap big spaces in wonky areas. It's demise will not kill Toronto's nightlife...how could anyone think of Toronto's nightlife as dependent on one of those clubs???? I would equate it with those discount book stores that locate temporarily in retail locations until a "real" tenant can be found.

And it's not a great "venue" either...in fact it's not a very good venue at all...it may have hosted a lot of live music, but I wouldn't call it a great venue for it. It's hardly Massey Hall. And it's so passe nowadays anyway...I suppose the kiddies still think it's great i guess. It's heyday was back when it was RPM.

Night clubs come and go...that's the nature of them...someone will find another space in another area that isn't being redeveloped. It's just a big old crappy warehouse building that's going to be torn down and replaced with relatively crappy condos and such (let's hope not), but that's the way it goes.




KGB

[phunky]

You people are crazy. The Koolhaus is one of the best venues in this city for seeing live rock bands. The sightlines are amazing. It's very intimate yet holds 2000 people. It's very modern inside and everything it is just great.

[kettal]

Rendering of Pier 27 from lxmoss over on UT... Wonderful!

http://www.mossproductions.ca/urbantoronto/pier27_rendering.jpg

Wow it's a glass Arc de Triomph

[bar1967]

If you go to their web site now they have a 3D fly by rendering of the buildings. VERY NICE!!!

http://www.pier27.ca/

[sl64]

I have a question: why are all condo websites annoying Flash pages? What is this, 2002?

The project looks promising and I trust Clewes with it... hopefully, as KGB says, it'll also block the Star building.

[bar1967]

Maybe Hume should turn his architecture criticizm on the building where his pay check comes from. :)

[phunky]

OH MY GOD! I love it. I love the fact that Toronto is doing cool things with it's buildings now.

[VikkyD]

I LOVE IT!..... okay... go build!

[kettal]

What's wrong with this picture?
http://www.thestar.com/images/assets/231844_3.JPG

May 30, 2007 04:30 AM
Christopher Hume
Urban Affairs Columnist

Everything about Pier 27 is great, except for one thing – the location.

Designed by one of Toronto's finest architects, Peter Clewes, this dramatic complex consists of two 12-storey slabs joined by a three-storey "bridge" that contains condos. If the pictures are any indication, the result will be a civic icon, a genuine landmark, gateway and framer of views. The language of glass and white steel also has a subtle nautical theme, obviously appropriate for the area.

The trouble is that it will occupy land that should be dedicated to a public purpose – that means a square, plaza, piazza, a park, whatever. The point is that it should be public.

What we're talking about here is the 9-acre site on the edge of Lake Ontario just east of Yonge St. Though there's enough space here for all the players to get what they want, it doesn't seem headed for a happy ending.

Not all is lost, however, as the development will include a 25-metre promenade along the west and south edges of the property. And to be fair to the builders – Fernbrook Homes and Cityzen – they appear committed to ensuring that the precinct will remain public in feel if not always in fact.

Given what they have the legal right to build, the scheme announced yesterday could have been much worse. Keep in mind that the city approved 1.5 million square feet of residential construction a decade ago and the Ontario Municipal Board upheld that in 2001.

Perhaps if the Toronto Harbour Commission (forerunner of the Toronto Port Authority) hadn't sold the land in 1986 to a private developer, the problem would never have arisen. Perhaps if the Toronto Waterfront Revitalization Corp., the city and the provincial and federal governments had been able to work out a deal with Fernbrook and Cityzen, a better solution could have been reached.

In fact, the developers are still talking to the TWRC. But at this point it's unlikely that any changes will be made, at least on the west end of the site, where construction is due to begin in a year or less.

In other words, the corporation's desire to have a clear public space extending from Queens Quay to the water's edge along the Yonge St. slip won't be realized. There will be a promenade, and at 25 metres it will be significant, but given the importance of Yonge, the TWRC rightly wanted more.

Critics would point out that it had the chance to reach an agreement last year but at the last minute, it and its federal and civic partners walked away from the table. The problem was that the developers would only have given up land in return for greater height, something no politician could agree to in a city where tall buildings are anathema.

But because Clewes is a very clever designer, and also a member of the Waterfront Design Review Panel, he has done something relatively sympathetic to the goals of waterfront revitalization. His clients – who wear loud striped suits and large sunglasses – want to start as soon as possible. Indeed, the plans revealed yesterday cover the first of four phases. It was clear no one's had the time yet to figure out what will happen on the eastern half of the site, where the bulk of building will eventually occur.

Clewes mentioned the idea of extending Freeland St. south of Queens Quay and creating another north/south "finger." But this would be a road for cars as well as pedestrians, which flies in the face of creating a public precinct. "It needs something incredibly important," Clewes rightly observes.

Condos, no matter how brilliantly designed, are not it. There was a time once when Torontonians were talking about getting Frank Gehry to design an art gallery or an opera house in this location. That would have been incredible. But that isn't going to happen.

And by the way, what has become of the TWRC's much touted commitment to green building? The word wasn't mentioned once.


http://www.thestar.com/article/219168

[Metroland]

I hope the other phases are just as impressive.
And the public money better go to good use!

[bar1967]

I hope the other phases are just as impressive.
And the public money better go to good use!

What public money? This is a private developer.

[Metroland]

What public money? This is a private developer.

private developer yes, but it is part of the waterfront revitilisation, so the city will be pitching in money. a significant amount in fact.

[kettal]

private developer yes, but it is part of the waterfront revitilisation, so the city will be pitching in money. a significant amount in fact.

Do you have a source for this? I can't imagine these condos needing any kind of subsidy.

[ScrapeTheSky]

I like the design. It's different.

[Taller, Better]

Hmmm.... thanks for the link. I saw a couple of renderings in the paper today... one looked good, the other did not. I like it better now having seen the 3 D presentation but want to absorb it a bit ...

[bar1967]

private developer yes, but it is part of the waterfront revitilisation, so the city will be pitching in money. a significant amount in fact.

Why would the city be kicking in money for this development? It is 100% private. Are you referring to upgrades to the neighborhood such as the new streetcar line, sewers, etc?

[valantino]

private developer yes, but it is part of the waterfront revitilisation, so the city will be pitching in money. a significant amount in fact

what the fuck are you talking about

[Taller, Better]

I have a lot of faith in Clewes... he will pull it off. I don't really understand the people who feel there is no room for residential on the waterfront. Hell, we want a permanent community down there to fill up the sidewalks with real live people and make it a living, breathing place and not just a park museum. Ironically, these are usually the same people who hold up Chicago's waterfront as the ideal, without realizing a good portion of Chicago's waterfront is wall to wall highrise (not to mention a freeway snaking along the lakeshore).

[bar1967]

I have a lot of faith in Clewes... he will pull it off. I don't really understand the people who feel there is no room for residential on the waterfront. Hell, we want a permanent community down there to fill up the sidewalks with real live people and make it a living, breathing place and not just a park museum. Ironically, these are usually the same people who hold up Chicago's waterfront as the ideal, without realizing a good portion of Chicago's waterfront is wall to wall highrise (not to mention a freeway snaking along the lakeshore).

Agree 100%!!!! You need a mixture of residential/park/retail/entertainment.

[Metroland]

what the fuck are you talking about


the city will be putting $12 million into the project to help cover the cost of underground parking, parks, roads and a bunch of other things. Actually $8 million dollars will go towards paying for the private underground parkade beneath these first two buildings.

[Jaye101]

what the fuck are you talking about

This is your first warning.

[Epi]

I don't really understand the outrage at all this. It's not as if the foot of Yonge Street had ever been important to our city (there's the Toronto Star building and a floating restaurant there now... woowee), nor would changing this one site into some sort of park really changed things (as the other uglyness there would still remain). You can't really see down Yonge all the way anyway thanks to the train tracks, the Gardiner and the crappy buildings already in the area.

This sounds like a pretty cool building. I hope that sometime all that land in the Harbourfront area gets developed into a good mixed used community. Add in a good 'Navy Pier' type thing with lots of restaurants and so on (perhaps closer to York Street where all the new south-of-railroad office buildings are going up) and this would be a very vibrant area. I'm all with Taller, Better on this.

[valantino]

the city will be putting $12 million into the project to help cover the cost of underground parking, parks, roads and a bunch of other things. Actually $8 million dollars will go towards paying for the private underground parkade beneath these first two buildings.

Sorry, but this makes absolutely zero sense. I think you are very confused. Perhaps ... part of the pier is owned by the city and I'm sure the parking authority would love to be a part of the development of this property

[valantino]

This is your first warning.

Huh? What the fuck for? Not 'cherry' enough for you?

Maybe then you should amend your forum rules to include those ghastly four letter numbers and perhaps hire good ole Martha to re-decorate with twall

[bar1967]

From today's Globe

http://images.theglobeandmail.com/archives/RTGAM/images/20070608/re-pier27-0608/site_pier27_08re1big.jpg

WATERFRONT: Resort-style project going on sale
SYDNIA YU

From Friday's Globe and Mail

June 8, 2007 at 12:00 AM EDT

To be built on one of Toronto's last waterfront residential sites, about 300 units of a resort-style condominium will be put on the market early next month. Called Pier 27, it's being constructed by Cityzen Development Group and Fernbrook Homes.

The nine-acre site off Queens Quay East, between Yonge Street and the Redpath Sugar property, is zoned for up to 1.5 million square feet of residential development plus ground-floor retail space. But about 30 per cent of the property will be open public space landscaped with green trees, bushes and gardens.

"Pier 27 is not going to be a massive concrete wall separating the rest of Toronto from one of the most beautiful natural attractions, the lake and its islands," Fernbrook president Danny Salvatore says. "One of the top priorities was to design and site all buildings in such a way as to preserve sight lines," he adds, "and to have them act as a link, not a barrier to the lake."

Peter Clewes of architectsAlliance designed phase one — two 12-storey, glass and steel buildings topped off with a three-storey bridge. The latter portion of the structure will contain unique "through" suites, "so you have a city view and you also have a lake view," sales manager Andy Kowalsky says.In the complex over all, there will be a wide selection of floor plans, from one-bedroom suites with 700-square-feet of space to 4,000-square-foot penthouses with three bedrooms and a den.

On the ground level, two-storey units will face the water and have private patios and a second-level door that leads to the elevator to the garage.

All units will have open kitchens, bedrooms that are separated for privacy, and at least one balcony or terrace. Six appliances will also be included.

Interior features will include 10-foot ceilings, granite countertops, hardwood floors and broadloom carpeting.

Residents will have access to a games room, theatre, gym, spa, whirlpool tub, and indoor and outdoor pools.A round-the-clock concierge and valet parking will also be available.

The site is only steps from the Martin Goodman Trail, streetcars heading to the subway and Union Station.

There is a Loblaws, liquor store and restaurants across the street, and other attractions within walking distance include Harbourfront and the Air Canada Centre.

Phase one is slated for completion in about 2-1/2 years.

Pier 27
LOCATION: Queens Quay East
BUILDERS/DEVELOPERS: Cityzen Development Group and Fernbrook Homes
SIZE: 700 to 4,000 square feet
PRICE: starting at $400,000
CONTACT: To register, phone (416) 690-7727 or visit www.pier27.ca

[johannesHSV]

great design

[phunky]

Based on the renders, the public is going to have great access to the lake still. I think this is a great design for the pier based on a condo development going in there. It would be hard to make this any better.

[rise_against]

If i lived there i think i would invest in a boat rather then a car...awesome looking! Wish it was taller so it would completley cover up the gross star building.

[phunky]

If i lived there i think i would invest in a boat rather then a car...awesome looking! Wish it was taller so it would completley cover up the gross star building.
Ya, but it will definitely take your attention away from the Star building.

[riley]

Just thought I'd give everyone an update on this project. my broker friend got invited to the Pier 27 launch party yesterday, (and invited me to come along but i was seeing the concert at Molson amphitheatre), and he gave me some info. it was just supposed to be just a party, but they actually started selling it. the prices range from $302,000 to $3.6 million, so they're not all crazy expensive. The per square ft price is mid-500 psf for smaller units, and the penthouses in the bridge are 790-819 psf. The smaller units are priced similarly to L Tower, but the penthouses are more expensive.

[Canuck-jge]

I don't like the style of the building. Reminds me of the UFT grad building.

[CrazyCanuck]

Welcome to the forum. This will look much better than the grad house.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/85/U_of_T_Graduate_House.JPG/300px-U_of_T_Graduate_House.JPG

[kagevrtugol]

I like it very much, and though some might find the hight to a bit to small, I think it's perfect!

[Tuscani01]

I took some pics of what looks to be construction on the Pier 27 site. These pics were taken from my friends condo. I believe its called Residences of the World Trade Centre, 15th floor.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/canadian_gino87/CentreIsland013.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/canadian_gino87/CentreIsland008.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/canadian_gino87/CentreIsland009.jpg

[Filip]

Too close to the water to be the actual condo... But I'm thinking, maybe it's simply a larger sales office?

[valantino]

looks a little big for a sales office as well as it not making a whole lot of sense to build a sales office on the site of the first towers.It's definitely not construction neither does it look like demolition of the demolished warehouse foundations - weird .. guess we'll find out soon

[Tuscani01]

looks a little big for a sales office as well as it not making a whole lot of sense to build a sales office on the site of the first towers.It's definitely not construction neither does it look like demolition of the demolished warehouse foundations - weird .. guess we'll find out soon

Well its definitely construction... the question is what is being constructed.

[kettal]

I think captain johns should be turned into a condo.

[phunky]

Nah. Give all the patrons a fishing pole. It could be like the Canadian version of Korean BBQ.

[outinleftfield]

But would they really wanna eat what they caught in the harbour? Blech:lol:

[Taller, Better]

But would they really wanna eat what they caught in the harbour? Blech:lol:

Would you really want to eat at Captain John's? I made that mistake exactly once.


by the by, should this project not be in "low rise developments"?

[valantino]

by the by, should this project not be in "low rise developments"?


some 'phunk' must have rubbed onto you - it's 14 storeys, 46.5m which I assume makes it a highrise

[Taller, Better]

some 'phunk' must have rubbed onto you - it's 14 storeys, 46.5m which I assume makes it a highrise

:lol: I'm a funky kind of guy! hehe! I get confused with the hi rise/lo rise thing. Thought the cut off for Highrise was 20 storeys..

[current]

15st+
....There is a lot of activity in the Toronto forum, and expanding this section was to ensure there was no loss of information of the many projects around the city. A high-rise in this context is 15st+. The Toronto Forum is one of the most active forum's in NASF and this split, along with other expansions will only increase the activity around here....


-Jaye

[Taller, Better]

^^ ah, ok. I didn't read that. 14 storeys is close enough I guess!

[phunky]

some 'phunk' must have rubbed onto you - it's 14 storeys, 46.5m which I assume makes it a highrise
:llama:

[bar1967]

more info...

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2...dfile-5995.pdf

[ONE HUMAN]

This forum seems to have truncated the URL.

Here it is again (works when I use Preview Post):
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2007/te/bgrd/backgroundfile-5995.pdf

Here it is as a TinyURL just in case: http://tinyurl.com/ywfrel

[kettal]

See, guys, I told you. No ground level retail, no "street life". Just another private condo :(

http://spacing.ca/wire/?p=2285

[Canadian Chocho]

See, guys, I told you. No ground level retail, no "street life". Just another private condo :(

http://spacing.ca/wire/?p=2285

Well, what you could do is tear down the Toronto Star building and replace it with a 350m tall office skyscraper.

PS. Do I win and award for avoiding the "s-t" word?

[thryve]

Why the crap wouldn't they put some retail at base? It would make it the nicest use of the nicest location and a great new public urban space on the waterfront.

[valantino]

It would make it the nicest use of the nicest location and a great new public urban space on the waterfront.

be a tough location for retail to be successful with winter and all

[kettal]

The other retailers on Queens Quay seem to survive...

[Taller, Better]

just........
Winter is brutal for retailers on the waterfront. They have to work on ways of drawing more people down there.

[thryve]

That's a good point. As long as they create a nice public space for use during the other seasons, it will be fine. And the architecture is cool enough that it makes a statement without having public/retail uses within its walls.

[valantino]

The other retailers on Queens Quay seem to survive...

Queens Quay is an entirely different ballgame however they seems to be considerable turnover and vacant storefronts . And, really, Is a corner store, drycleaner or movie rental place really that much more engaging than townhouses?

[addisonwesley]

^^ Yes, they provide services.

[valantino]

A traffic light provides a service as well but does very little to enhance the aforementioned street life. ;)

[casaguy]

Digging on the site Friday morning.

Perhaps to move the sales centre closer to the street? Are they making way for construction already?

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z133/markus919/DSCN0700.jpg

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z133/markus919/DSCN0699.jpg

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z133/markus919/DSCN0698.jpg

[addisonwesley]

A traffic light provides a service as well but does very little to enhance the aforementioned street life. ;)

One interacts with the service at shops. The only thing you can do at a junction is press a button; people don't go out just for the traffic lights.

[noob(but not really)]

SUUUUUUUCCCKS

[Mollywood]

This place needs some retail or something. Is it just gonna be another underused, waterside park? Why do we need more of that, especially at the bottom of Yonge st? What a wasted opportunity. That's just bad city planning and THAT SUCKS!

[Mollywood]

That's a good point. As long as they create a nice public space for use during the other seasons, it will be fine. And the architecture is cool enough that it makes a statement without having public/retail uses within its walls.

It will be fine? :nuts: First of all, fine doesn't cut it with me but I guess I just have higher expectations than others. On a really hot day, when you want to buy a dink or go to the bathroom, badly, you won't be thinking, that's fine, you'll be thinking, SHIT, THAT SUCKS!!!:ohno:

[Taller, Better]

On a really hot day, when you want to buy a dink

Wrong neighbourhood for that.
(sorry, I just couldn't resist! :lol: )

[ONE HUMAN]

This place needs some retail or something. Is it just gonna be another underused, waterside park? Why do we need more of that, especially at the bottom of Yonge st? What a wasted opportunity. That's just bad city planning and THAT SUCKS!

Does everything have to revolve around retail? Has our commercialized society become so materialistic that consumerism now dictates a park can't be enjoyed unless we can also shop there? Oh wait, what was I thinking?! Of course! :nuts:

[valantino]

^^Bad day?

[noob(but not really)]

^^ LOL!

[Istrian]

See, guys, I told you. No ground level retail, no "street life". Just another private condo :(

http://spacing.ca/wire/?p=2285

I Agree, it's missin' opportunity:ohno: :bash: :bash: :bash::ohno:

[ONE HUMAN]

^^Bad day?

Where does anything in my post suggest I was having a bad day? I may have to lump you in with the Almighty Noob group of "People Who Don't Get It Because Everything Goes Over Their Head".

[rick1016]

^^ I'm no expert and shouldn't be getting involved. But Sir, with all do respect, it seemed like you pretty much were looking for a fight with noob. Again, I don't mean to barge in or anything.

[rick1016]

Oh and my opinion. It's an interesting piece of architecture, but like others I think it could use some retail around it. Mainly because it's in a very good location for that sort of thing.

[ONE HUMAN]

^^ I'm no expert and shouldn't be getting involved. But Sir, with all do respect, it seemed like you pretty much were looking for a fight with noob. Again, I don't mean to barge in or anything.

I'm not looking for a fight with anyone. My original comment was directed at Mollywood (and anyone else that feels the same way), and my follow-up was directed at valantino. The reference to Noob was simply hero-worship on my part.

[Mollywood]

Does everything have to revolve around retail? Has our commercialized society become so materialistic that consumerism now dictates a park can't be enjoyed unless we can also shop there? Oh wait, what was I thinking?! Of course! :nuts:

Yes, it does. I'm not necessarily saying retail for shopping. I'm saying things like a variety store, cafe, restaurant or even something like a library. (public amenity) Sometimes people do have needs for washrooms and things. If you're enjoying relaxing in the park, why should you have to trek over to Harbourfront to use a washroom? We already have a lot of parks and quiet areas along the lake west of Harbourfront. We don't need more un-animated areas along the lake. We need more places to play, eat, drink, learn and enjoy.

[valantino]

Where does anything in my post suggest I was having a bad day?

The last two post I read, both from you, gave me the impression of a bad day. However, now I see you're just a prick. The first beer's on me.

I may have to lump you in with the Almighty Noob group of "People Who Don't Get It Because Everything Goes Over Their Head".

Oh .. I get it. I get it that this old conversation over the necessity of retail for the development to be successful will further degenerate into a pathetic mud-slinging campaign between arrogant, derisive trolls like youself on both sides of the coin. What? Bored with Pure Spirits?

[ONE HUMAN]

Yes, it does. I'm not necessarily saying retail for shopping. I'm saying things like a variety store, cafe, restaurant or even something like a library. (public amenity) Sometimes people do have needs for washrooms and things. If you're enjoying relaxing in the park, why should you have to trek over to Harbourfront to use a washroom? We already have a lot of parks and quiet areas along the lake west of Harbourfront. We don't need more un-animated areas along the lake. We need more places to play, eat, drink, learn and enjoy.

So now washrooms are considered retail? What exactly are you buying there? Nevermind, forget I asked. ;)

I don't think a park needs all this animation you speak of. Go watch a cartoon. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[ONE HUMAN]

The last two post I read, both from you, gave me the impression of a bad day. However, now I see you're just a prick. The first beer's on me.

Oh .. I get it. I get it that this old conversation over the necessity of retail for the development to be successful will further degenerate into a pathetic mud-slinging campaign between arrogant, derisive trolls like youself on both sides of the coin. What? Bored with Pure Spirits?

I never have bad days. :)

I'm a prick because I indicated I wasn't having a bad day? Or because I don't think a park needs retail? Oh, it was the way I said it. Ah, gotcha. Ruffled some adolescent feathers, did I?

What's with all the name-calling by the way? Prick? Troll? Don't worry, I can take it; you aren't hurting my Net feelings. I just thought that sort of thing was frowned upon around here. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

So now I'm a troll for expressing an opinion? I didn't realize that privilege was granted solely to people like yourself. Sorry I don't have your 3000+ posts, but I'm willing to work real hard boss.

Bored with Pure Spirits? Not even sure what that means. Care to explain?

[Taller, Better]

Nevermind, forget I asked. ;)

Done.

[ONE HUMAN]

Done.

I don't believe it was directed at you, but since you replied, have you ever purchased anything in a washroom? Now I'm curious. :shocked:

[Taller, Better]

I'm just curious why you are trying to stir up so much s**t here. You don't seem too keen on allowing others to have an opinion.

[ONE HUMAN]

I'm just curious why you are trying to stir up so much s**t here. You don't seem too keen on allowing others to have an opinion.

Really? Or is it that I'm not allowed to have an opinion? Why is it stirring up sh*t when I do it, but not when you do it? I'm not part of the Old Boys Club? Funny, but I'm not the one calling people "idiot", "prick", or "troll". I'm simply joining in on the discussion. I thought that's what we did here. Or are there different rules for different people? Fill me in.

[Taller, Better]

on second thought... I don't care.

[rick1016]

^^ lol

[ONE HUMAN]

on second thought... I don't care.

So you're not going to fill me in then? And I think you do care or you wouldn't have brought it up.

I think it's hypocritical that members of the Old Boys Club are allowed to express a strong or contrary opinion, but god forbid if a newbie or someone with a low post count should do the same. So typical of this forum. That's why in four years I rarely bothered to post. Not worth the hassle. It's so much easier to go down to the local high school and argue with teenagers.

Oh, and you better keep an eye on me. Word on the street is I'm a very dangerous man. Who knows what I might do next! I might even propose a subway extension or a pedestrian-only mall. Stay tuned!

[Canadian Chocho]

anyone see phase 2 in the condoguide?

[Jackhammer]

Does everything have to revolve around retail? Has our commercialized society become so materialistic that consumerism now dictates a park can't be enjoyed unless we can also shop there? Oh wait, what was I thinking?! Of course! :nuts:
I'm going to agree with you to a point. Perhaps not necessarily with this specific building, but over all, a lot of members here tend to flog any project that lacks retail.

I understand and appreciate the desire for "street life". However, every area doesn't need to be a zoo of activity. Places for a quicet escape and reflection are nice too. There is a demand for people who want to be near the amenities of downtown Toronto without necessarily living on top of them. Supply and Demand also becomes an issue. I would rather see many vibrant pockets rather than a thin veil of pedestrian traffic through the whole city.

[isaidso]

Hmmm, the design is ok, but shouldn't this land have been part of an extended parkland along the water?

[Mollywood]

I am not a fan. I also would like this project to have retail or something to give a little to the city, given that it is in a very prominent location, which will have public uses. It's a big loss to the waterfront. Our city talks about wanting a "great waterfront" but so far all I see is talk. This would have been the perfect location to start practicing what city council preaches but nope, we get more wasted opportunities. We could have had something really special, we should have had something very special. (like a Gehry amphitheatre or modern art centre)

[thryve]

Guys--- if retail could have been sustained, then it would have been included. Can't we just appreciate this as a piece of art, with lots of greenspace? Geez, hard to keep Torontonians happy these days unless they get to shop... everywhere. Where's the art in that?

[isaidso]

Torontonians are hard to keep happy, but that's a good thing. I agree with Mollywood. We seem to talk about a great waterfront, come through with developments like H2O, but then fall down again with projects like this.

Central Toronto is going to rapidly densify. Retail may not be sustainable in the quantity alot of us would like, but it will be in the future. We need to recognize that, and build developments that can accomodate that down the road. I don't think this building should be built here at all, but if we are stuck with it here, retail should be encouraged.

Honestly, do we really need more condos on the water? I think we need many other things alot more than another condo here. Park, beach, pedestrian mall, museum, etc. This should be 100% public space. Our desire for a better waterfront? Remember that?

[Mollywood]

Guys--- if retail could have been sustained, then it would have been included. Can't we just appreciate this as a piece of art, with lots of greenspace? Geez, hard to keep Torontonians happy these days unless they get to shop... everywhere. Where's the art in that?

Shopping?:nuts: It's not about shopping,:bash: it's about being able to get a friggin' coffee or bottled water in the summer, maybe have a drink on a patio. When you need to take a pee, you'd appreciate a Tim Horton's, BIGTIME! It's not just about the shopping, it's about giving the people who use that park, basic needs. I hope you never have a gastrointestinal problem when you are in that park because you'll be half way to Harbour Castle before you realize, DAMN, it's too late. lol :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:

[Canadian Chocho]

Boop

[Wrk_InProgress]

Why does every portion of the waterfront have to be something "special" ?

I could understand the outcry if this was a crappy development with no public space, but it's clearly not.

[thryve]

^^ Exactly. People need to learn the line between "demanding good urban design from your city and developers" and "expecting way too much and not being happy even with a wonderful development".

[Taller, Better]

agreed, thryve.

[valantino]

Why does every portion of the waterfront have to be something "special" ?


because every other city on this rock has a spectacular waterfront or a least that's my third hand impression ;)

[isaidso]

Why does every portion of the waterfront have to be something "special" ?


That seems all backward to me. Why shouldn't it all be special? That's like building 20 nice cars, then building a couple sub-par ones just because you can. I don't get that at all.

[Jackhammer]

That seems all backward to me. Why shouldn't it all be special? That's like building 20 nice cars, then building a couple sub-par ones just because you can. I don't get that at all.
You need the sub-par cars to punctuate the difference from luxury ones.

It's like a roller coaster, the ride is no fun with out the highs and the lows and the little twisties to link at all together.

That said, I hardly think this property will be a low. It will still be a dramatic element that links the other wonderful features that will one day be our waterfront.

Besides, we do not know exactly what amenities will be nearby or in the adjacent public space. I'm sure we won't be forced to piss from the docks and quench our thirst from rain barrels.

[valantino]

You need the sub-par cars to punctuate the difference from luxury ones.

Well said although ... I've heard numerous forumers over the years refer to Toronto as bland due to the lack of Amercianized ghettos & slums. ;)

[Mollywood]

Why does every portion of the waterfront have to be something "special" ?

I could understand the outcry if this was a crappy development with no public space, but it's clearly not.

I say exactly the opposite. Why does every portion of our waterfront have to be so ordinary? Where is the great architecture, where are the special neighbourhoods, where are the unique attractions, where are the great cultural buildings, where are the cool parks? (ok, maybe we got a few cool parks but nothing amazing! So where are these special places on the waterfront, where is the WOW factor? I don't see them.

[Jackhammer]

I say exactly the opposite. Why does every portion of our waterfront have to be so ordinary? Where is the great architecture, where are the special neighbourhoods, where are the unique attractions, where are the great cultural buildings, where are the cool parks? (ok, maybe we got a few cool parks but nothing amazing! So where are these special places on the waterfront, where is the WOW factor? I don't see them.
Uhhhhh.............. it's a work in progress.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=386235

[Jackhammer]

Well said although ... I've heard numerous forumers over the years refer to Toronto as bland due to the lack of Amercianized ghettos & slums. ;)
LOL ... nice ... although if you stacked a Dixon Road apartment next to SP!RE I think you could spot the subtle differences.

[Taller, Better]

To people who say "Why do we need another condo on the waterfront", the answer is simple. Resident population is a crucial part of the success of any urban project... that is to say you want people living there, and lots of them. Having a solid permanent population on the waterfront is a good thing, not something to fight against. You don't want wall to wall apartments and condos like many cities (including Chicago) have, but you do want them to be part of the mix. Residential development as part of our lakefront development in Toronto has taken on mythical and demonic proportions.... people assume there is much more there than there really is, and people are under the impression that other cities do not have apartments or condos on the waterfront.

[valantino]

We're all lemmings and Chicago ('s waterfront) is the preverbial splat at the base of the cliff. It's a flashy city no doubt but, from Grant Park to Lakeshore Drive to 80 floor towers on postage sized lots, everything is so out-of-scale to the pedestrian

[current]

anyone see phase 2 in the condoguide?

Phase 2 looks like a mirror image of phase 1 except for the "L" shaped bridge and the easternmost building is narrower and longer than the westernmost building of phase 1. The Condo Guide magazine Oct 15 on page 89 has a sky view render of the development and how it will look in Harbourfront with the islands in the background.

[Taller, Better]

There was an ad in today's Globe Real Estate part 2, with a rendering of the new complex in an aerial shot from the lake.. showing the new buildings mixed in with all the old drab ones (most notably Toronto Star building) and it really did look very fresh and smart.

[ale26]

There was an ad in today's Globe Real Estate part 2, with a rendering of the new complex in an aerial shot from the lake.. showing the new buildings mixed in with all the old drab ones (most notably Toronto Star building) and it really did look very fresh and smart.

ahh I saw that too...I think it looks marvelous! and I love that shot of Toronto

[outinleftfield]

Definitely!! Despite the naysayers, I like it:)

[Taller, Better]

I'm warming to it.. it is one of those projects that will probably look better when completed.
The architects have an extremely good track record.

[noob(but not really)]

Why should the foot of the most important street in the most important city in the greatest country in the world settle for this hunk-a-junk?

[Taller, Better]

I think you exaggerate. These are prominent architects with a very good track record.. I am not ready to dismiss this as a hunk of junk.

[yyzer]

this ain't no junk....noob, you need to clean your glasses....

[outinleftfield]

Well, it's certainly not a pair of boxes... you gotta admit that, noob!

[Taller, Better]

And it is not a novelty shape... which could be better for the long run as it won't fall out of fashion so quickly- I think this might be a handsome project when completed.

[noob(but not really)]

The site needs something more is what I'm getting at. I wouldn't mind this anywhere else along the waterfront.

[current]

From the latest Condo Guide magazine:

Pier 27 redefines waterfront living

http://www.newhomesandcondos.com/content/4/20071029/A1_7794.jpg

Cityzen Development Group and Fernbrook Homes are redefining waterfront living with their newest Pier 27 project. Anyone with any doubts should to visit the presentation centre on Queen’s Quay at the foot of Yonge Street to be convinced.

Pier 27, now in its second phase, treats the city’s magnificent waterfront the way it always should have been. This is a project designed for residents and the general public as well, adding to the enjoyment of those magnificent vistas of green lake and even greener islands.

“This is a landmark project, designed to provide an unequalled urban lifestyle in the heart of one of North America’s most exciting cities,” says Joe Cordiano, Cityzen Group partner. “There is really nothing else like it in Toronto... Pier 27 celebrates life on the waterfront, not life with views of the waterfront.”

Every one of Phase ll’s 409 suites has a large balcony or terrace, or both, and ground-floor units will have a private patio. Pier 27 will be a project that seamlessly links the magnificent outdoor setting with suite interiors, says Cordiano.

Designed by celebrated architect Peter Clewes of Architects Alliance, the steel and glass towers will be set amidst lavishly landscaped grounds reminiscent of southern resort properties. The design and use of steel and glass create a visual link between the city’s magnificent harbourscape and pedestrian traffic along Queen’s Quay. “In the past too many projects have acted as a barrier to the enjoyment of the waterfront,” he adds. “When we began designing this new community, one of our top priorities was to design and site all buildings in ways that preserve sight lines and act as a link not a barrier to the lake. Phase ll continues that principle.”

Phase II will be a near mirror image of Phase I. Again, Fernbrook and Cityzen have created a pair of steel and glass mid-rise buildings – one of 14 storeys and one of 12 – joined at the 12th floor by a cantilevered bridge.

Suites range in size from 550-sq.-ft., one-bedroom models, right up to expansive 1,721-sq.-ft. executive residences. There are one-bedroom-plus-dens, two-storey lofts, two-bedroom suites and two-bedroom-plus-dens in addition to townhomes along the lower levels. In Phase II, Cityzen and Fernbrook made certain to include a large number of those one-bedroom-plus-den units. Prices start in the mid-$300,000 range.

“Our decision to offer a large number of smaller suites is based on feedback from the thousands of people who have expressed a strong interest in Pier 27,” says Cordiano. “But it is also based in part on our feeling that Pier 27 should be a community with room for singles and young professional couples who appreciate waterfront living.”

Like its predecessor, Phase ll will feature a range of amenities that incorporate both indoor and outdoor living on what has been called one of the best waterfront sites. It will offer residents extensive indoor and outdoor recreational facilities and a host of other amenities, including a round-the-clock concierge and valet parking to whisk residents’ and guests’ vehicles to the underground parking garage. The lobby and amenities areas were designed by the award-winning firm of Munge//Leung Design Associates, who have created a spa-like environment with their design, with an outdoor pool in the courtyard between the two buildings, an exercise and workout room, spa treatment rooms and guest suites.

Pier 27 sits in the very heart of a thriving waterfront community, Cordiano points out. Directly across Queen’s Quay is a Loblaws, an LCBO outlet, restaurants and clubs. The site is directly connected with the Martin Goodman Trail – a popular route for joggers, cyclists and walkers. There is even a new marina proposed. “You have the Queen’s Quay TTC line at your doorstep as well as the Air Canada Centre, the business district, the St. Lawrence Centre and the pleasures that Harbourfront offers. They are all minutes away by foot as are ferries to the Toronto Islands,” says Cordiano.

To see what life on the waterfront was meant to be, visit the presentation centre on Queen’s Quay at the foot of Yonge Street visit the web site at www.Pier27.ca. The telephone number is 416-367-3456.

http://www.newhomesandcondos.com/modules/magazine/article.asp?AID=5833&MID=4&IDATE=10/29/2007&CMID=4&CIDATE=10/29/2007

[thryve]

From the Pier27 brochure. Due to time constraints, interior shots (which are very classy) aren't posted here, but can be found on the website. :cheers:

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8528/pier27dst6.png

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/783/pier27ela7.png

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4922/pier27fzv4.png

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4310/pier27gcn1.png

[Tuscani01]

^^ she is magnificent!

[yyzer]

a real beauty! :)

[Tuscani01]

a real beauty! :)

I knew I should have stuck with beauty:@

[Taller, Better]

It is growing on me...
In some renderings, the crosswalk thingy appears quite slim, and the rendering above it has more bulk... wonder which is the latest?

[FTech]

IS it just me or does this building look very futuristic? And what's up with that huge green lawn near the tower, is that for Polo?

[Taller, Better]

Apparently they are creating an 8 acre park, which they say is the largest privately made park in Canada for a residential development.

[noob(but not really)]

I like the one elliot posted better. Any way to get them to build that instead?

[Skybean]

Not bad, this design will age well. This style of square buildings is pretty popular right now.

[bar1967]

Amazing!!!

[NorthYorker]

Apparently they are creating an 8 acre park, which they say is the largest privately made park in Canada for a residential development.

That's the best news I've heard about this project yet. No matter how good the design is (this is pretty nice), I don't think I'll ever be convinced of the benefits of the way this site is turning out. Guess all we can do is hope for the best and wait for even more renders.

[bar1967]

There is an updated video of the next Phase (2). Looks great!!

http://www.unikron.com/custom_screens/pier27/flash_player.html

[yyzer]

update, Pier 27 is more than proposed, it is a 5 stage development, currently in sales; phase one is apparently sold out, and phase two almost sold out...here's a pic of the sales centre on the Toronto waterfront, pic by smuncky at UT....construction is anticipated to begin this fall...

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee89/smuncky/DSC08725.jpg

and here are some updated renderings posted by zach@spine3d.com at urbantoronto.ca....

http://ftp.spine3d.com/~temp/demo/pier27/pier27-5.jpg

http://ftp.spine3d.com/~temp/demo/pier27/pier27-1.jpg

http://ftp.spine3d.com/~temp/demo/pier27/pier27-7.jpg

[Canadian Chocho]

the second one looks like a screen shot from a video game, like GTA.

[ScrapeTheSky]

Hot renders

[Bisonblight]

Cool, what building is supposed to be reflected in the third image?

[valantino]

^^take a look at the background buildings in the other renderings for the answer.

[mckarisma]

Im not sure either, you can't really tell what it is, but it probably doesn't exist and likely there is no proposal for a building that tall in that area.

[Marcanadian]

It's the Canada Trust Tower.

[Dream Brother]

The colour of the lake looks extremely accurate.

[yin_yang]

maybe they poured some chlorine in there?

[Dream Brother]

maybe they poured some chlorine in there?

Or blue Gatorade.

[ggaleazz]

An interesting project but I think the foot of Yonge should be reserved as a purely public space. A large park/square to anchor one of the city's (and province's) most important streets.

That said, what a the suites going for?

[Taller, Better]

^^Don't forget that as lovely as the theoretical idea of nothing but parkspace may sound, parks on the waterfront are pretty much completely, utterly deserted for about a half a year due to Old Man Winter. Isn't it a good thing to have a resident population to bring some life to what would otherwise be deserted? Too often we do our planning thinking only of how it will be used in the summertime, which is not really completely practical in the world's second coldest country. Personally, I am in favour of parks, recreation, residential and workplaces co-existing in one area. That is what I think of as a real "community". Removing the residential from the equation takes out some of the life. Surprisingly to me, The Fume seems to be in favour of not having any jobs like Filmport in the equation.... which surprised the hell out of me when I read it. I like to work, play and live in one area!! I don't see why it improves it to force people to drive automobiles to work instead of walking.

[dleung]

I love it... reminds me of those housing projects in the Netherlands, very Euro. A few restaurants and retail at ground level would give some life to the waterfront, tho.

Who's The Fume?

[Taller, Better]

Christopher Hume, a local critic, seems opposed to companies like Filmport building on the waterfront.
To me it is the perfect addition- provides jobs year round and is potentially a tourist attraction. Provides one more draw to get people down to the waterfront.

[Bisonblight]

It's the Canada Trust Tower.

That's what I supposed, which is why I thought it odd that it and the royal bank plaza are also in the background of the picture. Maybe the earth's gravity is bending the light. I'm just being nit-picky. I really like these buildings.

[kettal]

looks good, but where's the "8 acre park"??

[valantino]

^a very short boat ride away

[Taller, Better]

Hanlan's Point?