MaRS Phase Two: Coming Soon

[pancsi]

According to todays Globe (page A11) "next week directors of the non-profit MaRS discovery district are scheduled to announce a private-sector investment of more than $300 million to complete the second phase..."

"The new building will more than double the laboratory and office space available in the complex, making it bigger than any single office tower in the financial district...." It will grow to 1.6 million square feet by 2010. And the best part, "the potential market for research-oriented office in that district, five minutes from the hospitals in one direction, five minutes from the university in the other, is as much as 10 million square feet according to city economic-development officer Kyle Benham.

[Taller, Better]

Excellent news for the health of the city! The stronger we get in Research and Development, the better.

[CrazyCanuck]

Moving to high-rise.

[rise_against]

Potential for 10 mil square feet? Thats sounds a tad optomistic...thats like 3.5 FCP s!!! Thats a ton of space...

[CrazyCanuck]

Phase two will be significantly taller than phase one.

[Filip]

It seems Toronto's future lies in research and development. Hopefully, we become a world leader - if not the.

[Taller, Better]

It seems Toronto's future lies in research and development. Hopefully, we become a world leader - if not the.

There is NO better thing to become a leader in. Beats call centres any day.

[Filip]

There is NO better thing to become a leader in. Beats call centres any day.

So 10 million sqf of research space downtown? That's a shitload of office towers. Seems our future is bright!

[Epi]

So 10 million sqf of research space downtown? That's a shitload of office towers. Seems our future is bright!

I think what they mean is if you add in all the space from the hospital research wings, and the extra hospital buildings, and all of the uoft buildings, the potential is to expand MaRS influence to 10 million.

Either way, I hope this gets done ASAP. Canada just ranked really horribly on a bunch of rankings in R&D related matters, I hope we can start reversing that trend.

[Taller, Better]

I think what they mean is if you add in all the space from the hospital research wings, and the extra hospital buildings, and all of the uoft buildings, the potential is to expand MaRS influence to 10 million.

Either way, I hope this gets done ASAP. Canada just ranked really horribly on a bunch of rankings in R&D related matters, I hope we can start reversing that trend.

I'm not up to date on the subject, but I was under the impression that Toronto was doing extremely well in that area... has something changed?

[Filip]

I'm not up to date on the subject, but I was under the impression that Toronto was doing extremely well in that area... has something changed?

Yea, I was under that impression too... We should be thankful for having such a strong sciences related university next door to all of this - R&D at UofT is a major player. I think what Epi meant was that R&D doesn't get much government support? (Though I could swear I read that Schwarzenegger recently signed a contract at MaRS with McGuinty - something research related).

[valantino]

Mars 2 is 23 storeys, 113m tall


So 10 million sqf of research space downtown? That's a shitload of office towers. Seems our future is bright

some of those planned, u/c & built off the top of my head

-St Mikes is building a 9 storey research building
-Womens college will be redeveloped with two new highrises,
-Mount Sinai is expanding their new 4 storey research building to 12 storeys
-Sick Kids has a building planned for one of the parking lots by the Nightmare on Elm.
- Leslie L Dan Pharmacy Building
- CCBR building

[Filip]

Mars 2 is 23 storeys, 113m tall




some of those planned, u/c & built off the top of my head

-St Mikes is building a 9 storey research building
-Womens college will be redeveloped with two new highrises,
-Mount Sinai is expanding their new 4 storey research building to 12 storeys
-Sick Kids has a building planned for one of the parking lots by the Nightmare on Elm.
- Leslie L Dan Pharmacy Building
- CCBR building

So I heard about most of these but what are:
Women's College? Where is that first of all:S
Sick Kids has had that planned for over a year hasn't it? Still no news (that I know of).

[valantino]

Womens College is west of Burano

report from this week
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2007/te/bgrd/backgroundfile-4737.pdf

[Steeltown]

(Though I could swear I read that Schwarzenegger recently signed a contract at MaRS with McGuinty - something research related).

For stem cell research, I work at a stel cell research lab. California and Ontario will work together in funding new stem cell research. I work at McMaster which is building Innovation Park which is pretty much a carbon copy of MaRS.

Government support for R&D from the province is good but the problem is with the Conservatives at Ottawa. Their extremely picky at what can and can't be funded for R&D such as stem cell research.

[Epi]

I'm not up to date on the subject, but I was under the impression that Toronto was doing extremely well in that area... has something changed?

Hmm was thinking of this: http://www.thestar.com/article/224616

But then of course those reports are always somewhat misleading. I remember reading in the G&B version of that, something that also critized our R&D, but maybe I'm wrong.

Either way, Toronto needs all the R&D jobs it can get, the more the better!

[Filip]

Womens College is west of Burano

report from this week
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2007/te/bgrd/backgroundfile-4737.pdf

Thanks for this!

Good to know that R&D jobs will be aplenty around here. I thought of going into sciences, biological and chemical - but then I backed out. Too bad.

[Bisonblight]

Great news. I haven't been in the area for awhile (hope to change that soon). Is phase two the building at University and Queen's Park, or is this something different? I thought the latter was already progressing.

As for R&D, I think the city does well. As a country, many businesses, whether Canadian owned or otherwise, relied heavily on the weak dollar, and haven’t invested heavily in R&D for some time (COUGHS … American Auto Industry).

[Filip]

Great news. I haven't been in the area for awhile (hope to change that soon). Is phase two the building at University and Queen's Park, or is this something different? I thought the latter was already progressing.

As for R&D, I think the city does well. As a country, many businesses, whether Canadian owned or otherwise, relied heavily on the weak dollar, and haven’t invested heavily in R&D for some time (COUGHS … American Auto Industry).

Yes, phase two is at the corner of College and University. I hope they chose a more daring design now - to cement that intersection a bit further.

[Steeltown]

I'm so friggin glad I took biotech science for my post secondary education lol. Finding jobs in research has been pretty easy for me. I've applied to MaRS and they've offered me a job but I had to reject the offer, took McMaster instead (closer to home). But as I gain more experience I intend to apply to MaRS again.

[Jackhammer]

I'm not up to date on the subject, but I was under the impression that Toronto was doing extremely well in that area... has something changed?


My understanding is that Canada as a whole is good at research but is not very good at turning research into patents (something the USA is very good at). MaRS is intended to correct this problem.

[Filip]

I'm so friggin glad I took biotech science for my post secondary education lol. Finding jobs in research has been pretty easy for me. I've applied to MaRS and they've offered me a job but I had to reject the offer, took McMaster instead (closer to home). But as I gain more experience I intend to apply to MaRS again.

My mom works occasionally on projects at MaRS. I once thought of doing what she did (chemical engineering) but then decided I'm not the type.. I'm more of a sleazy businessman.

[Steeltown]

^ Assuming you got that from your father's side? lol Manager of Sam.

[Filip]

^ Assuming you got that from your father's side? lol Manager of Sam.

:D

I don't have the scientific personality. I loved sciences in school - I did amazing in Chemistry and Physics, but I decided that I'm just not interested in having a life that revolved around them. So, I noticed I'm way more a linguistics type, I love talking, convincing people - I love math and business courses. So, I decided business was the best bet for me - maybe one day I'll do something I like, like working in a major international financial corporation. I'd love to work in Royal Bank's London offices for example.

[Steeltown]

Or you could be a Program Manger of a research lab! lol

This is the lab that I work at: www.fhs.mcmaster.ca/SCCRI

[punchbuggy]

I'm so friggin glad I took biotech science for my post secondary education lol. Finding jobs in research has been pretty easy for me. I've applied to MaRS and they've offered me a job but I had to reject the offer, took McMaster instead (closer to home). But as I gain more experience I intend to apply to MaRS again.

Amazing! I graduate next year in biochem/biotech and i'm working with nanotech too. Hopefully the building will be as exciting as the research!

[ScrapeTheSky]

I never had any luck finding a job in the biotech industry unfortunately :( Stupid degree.

[Dino Domingo]

There is NO better thing to become a leader in. Beats call centres any day.

Um, that's New Brunswick, not Toronto.

[urban 2.0]

For stem cell research, I work at a stel cell research lab. California and Ontario will work together in funding new stem cell research. I work at McMaster which is building Innovation Park which is pretty much a carbon copy of MaRS.

Government support for R&D from the province is good but the problem is with the Conservatives at Ottawa. Their extremely picky at what can and can't be funded for R&D such as stem cell research.


...kinda like Diefenbaker and the Avro - if it doesn't involve farming (and now Nascar) the Conservatives just won't get it.

Conservatives are allergic to the modern world. Think - most of the Conservative MP's are from hillbilly country anyway's!

Since R&D doesn't translate into "Lower Taxes" - they don't get it.

With our dollar on par - our businesses need to get their shit together and begin to get competitive.

[Bisonblight]

Yes, phase two is at the corner of College and University. I hope they chose a more daring design now - to cement that intersection a bit further.

Thanks Filip ... I thought so ... meant College.

[Steeltown]

Go to the link below and watch a recent news clip about embryonic stem cells (ES cells) research and how the Conservatives are slowly trying to dismantle ES cell research in Canada. Mick Bhatia in the video clip is my boss.

http://www.cbc.ca/clips/rm-hi/mackinnon-stemcells-070212.rm

Basically summed up in that video clip is that currently a new ES cell research committee is being set up, they will regulate what can and can't be approved for ES cell research. So far every single committee member that Harper has appointed is against ES cell research. So take a wild guess what's going to happen eventually.....soon these committee members will start to deny new ES cell research in Canada.

[Taller, Better]

Um, that's New Brunswick, not Toronto.

Got it in one! :cheers:

[Bisonblight]

Hey Guys, don't knock call centres. Many of my peers went on to work at one of the numerous ones here in London after getting there Master's. Of course, aside from some manufacturing and a few insurance companies, not entirely sure what else there is to do here. And the city wonders why graduates don't hang around.

[Taller, Better]

Hey Guys, don't knock call centres. Many of my peers went on to work at one of the numerous ones here in London after getting there Master's. Of course, aside from some manufacturing and a few insurance companies, not entirely sure what else there is to do here. And the city wonders why graduates don't hang around.



That is my point, entirely.. call centres provide "jobs", just like fast food places do.. but it is better for a city to go after R&D than more call centres. Pharmaceuticals is another good field to try and attract.

[Bisonblight]

Personally, I think the world needs more political analysts. Eventually, I’ll run out of degrees to do, and no call centre will want to higher me.

Despite both Ottawa and Kitchener-Waterloo’s claim to be “silicon valley north,” the area including north-east Toronto, Richmond Hill, and Markham has the highest concentration of high-tech computer related industry I believe. We seem to do well in that department, but, aside from AMD (formerly ATI), I’m not sure how much R&D goes on up there (Nortel in Brampton, I guess … but not the greatest success story anymore).

Toronto could be a hot bed for R&D if we pushed kids into technology related education, rather than having so many graduate from the social sciences and humanities. The one thing KW has going for it, is so many computer graduates (York and Toronto's programs suck by comparison).

As an aside, I wonder if BCE can move its headquarters to T.O. after it sells or merges itself with another company.

[InTheBeach]

Since R&D doesn't translate into "Lower Taxes" - they don't get it.



Well, R&D does translate into lowe taxes........for me. I get an R&D tax credit on my stock options.

It is an incentive that the those conservatives implemented to retain R&D workers.

Son of a gun.

[Taller, Better]

Personally, I think the world needs more political analysts. Eventually, I’ll run out of degrees to do, and no call centre will want to higher me.

Despite both Ottawa and Kitchener-Waterloo’s claim to be “silicon valley north,” the area including north-east Toronto, Richmond Hill, and Markham has the highest concentration of high-tech computer related industry I believe. We seem to do well in that department, but, aside from AMD (formerly ATI), I’m not sure how much R&D goes on up there (Nortel in Brampton, I guess … but not the greatest success story anymore).

Toronto could be a hot bed for R&D if we pushed kids into technology related education, rather than having so many graduate from the social sciences and humanities. The one thing KW has going for it, is so many computer graduates (York and Toronto's programs suck by comparison).

As an aside, I wonder if BCE can move its headquarters to T.O. after it sells or merges itself with another company.

You are absolutely correct. Canada's Silicone Valley has been and still is in Richmond Hill and Markham. Ottawa made quite a bit of hay for itself by claiming the title, but everyone in the industry quietly knew it was here.

[InTheBeach]

You are absolutely correct. Canada's Silicone Valley has been and still is in Richmond Hill and Markham. Ottawa made quite a bit of hay for itself by claiming the title, but everyone in the industry quietly knew it was here.

Let's not confuse Silicon with High Tech. It is a subset. There is lots of semiconductor work happening in Ottawa. Not so much in the GTA.

[ScrapeTheSky]

There's a lot of pharmaceutical companies in Mississauga like GSK, Biovail and AstraZeneca.

[Taller, Better]

There's a lot of pharmaceutical companies in Mississauga like GSK, Biovail and AstraZeneca.

Montreal very wisely has cultivated the pharmaceutical companies over the decades. Toronto has played catch-up by being strong in the generic ones.

[Wrk_InProgress]

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/6594/phase2homepagebadgemh7.jpg

Hard to tell from such a small render, but it looks good. A mashup of sorts involving the nearby Leslie Pharmacy building and CCBR.

- 900,000 sq. ft.
- connected to the subway
- showcase "front room" that will server as entry point to the city's discovery district.

[CrazyCanuck]

Looks interesting from that point of view. It will complement that intersection nicely.

[valantino]

^I'm more concerned with how it compliments the rest of the MARS complex (and the greater TGH block) than the intersection

[Wrk_InProgress]

^I'm more concerned with how it compliments the rest of the MARS complex (and the greater TGH block) than the intersection

Well it seems to have a bit more flair than the Tower on the other side, so it may not provide a certain sense of symmetry.

[phunky]

I dunno if I like it or not. I'll wait for more renders.

[Waterloo_Guy]

900,000 sq. ft? That's massive! It's bigger than Telus!

[valantino]

Well it seems to have a bit more flair than the Tower on the other side, so it may not provide a certain sense of symmetry

at 23 storeys, symmetry was already out of play. I like it however a mirror of this side on the east would not be good

[monkeyronin]

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3243/mars2rk4.jpg

[Steeltown]

Me likey, likey!

Looks like a block guy hugging the building.

[Filip]

^^OMG HAHAH IT DOES! It looks like a guy is squatting/sitting and hugging the building! LOL! What an awesome observation! Beautiful tower btw.. LOVE IT!

[Steeltown]

Yea a headless and one legged block guy squatting and hugging the building.

[Filip]

Yea a headless and one legged block guy squatting and hugging the building.

Hah awesome! It so does.. I love it

[kettal]

huh? all I see is an arrow pointing up

[phunky]

Ya I see an arrow too.

[Waterloo_Guy]

I'm not sure it looks like 900 000sf of space.

[phunky]

Okay. After seeing that bigger render, which I missed earlier. I love it! Loooove it!

[camel_trainer]

great renders here:

http://www.marsdd.com/phaseII/

I love it. It's going to look so good on University. This is a truly great Canadian success story in the making.

[The 'Sauga]

Really awesome building, however would of prefered if they designed to be curvy to match the Toronto Hydro building to create the perfect gateway for University Avenue looking down from Queen's Park. Now that would be the money shot!

[sudburyboy]

is it just me or does that pic make downtown look kinda sprawly and lowrise? i definately know toronto is none of those things, but that picture looks odd.

[punchbuggy]

ohh i like and i want to work there too.

[punchbuggy]

OHH and from the release page.
http://www.marsdd.com/portals/mars/story_images/phase2/ph2-arial-lg.jpg
http://www.marsdd.com/portals/mars/story_images/phase2/ph2-south-lg.jpg

Yes, and it does look wierd beside the curvy hydro building.

[CrazyCanuck]

Equipment on site.

[thryve]

I love this complex. A nice, big, quiet food court downstairs too :cheers:

I didn't realize the design would be changed from being anything but a twin of the first (East) tower, but this looks pretty good. I wish it was a twin of the first tower, to create symmetry around the old building onsite.

[current]

Original render of the MaRS west tower:


MaRS Discovery District - West Tower
http://www.urbandb.com/canada/ontario/toronto/marswest.jpg

[CrazyCanuck]

More equipment on site.

[current]

Took some photos today of the excavation taking place at the MaRS Phase 2 site


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2129/1912789390_d72949d472_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2105/1912789374_acaef1cb81_b.jpg

[yin_yang]

university avenue is going to look ridiculously impressive in 5 years. from st. clair all the way down to the lakeshore.

[ScrapeTheSky]

Has the subway entrance on that corner been demolished yet or are they going to wait until this building is done?

[Elkhanan1]

university avenue is going to look ridiculously impressive in 5 years. from st. clair all the way down to the lakeshore.

Walking along University Ave near St. Patrick station yesterday, it occurred to me that if Toronto ever gets a mega-supertall this is where it should / would go. The scale of the street certainly could handle it, there's some distance from the CN Tower so that it wouldn't compete with it in the skyline, and there are plenty of non-descript mid-rises in the area that no one would miss. Also, shadows over NPSquare wouldn't be an issue if located closer to Dundas and the University subway line would get a major boost, relieving some of the pressure on the Yonge line.

So here's my proposal: a 130-storey, Renzo Piano / Cesar Pelli / Norman Foster-designed skyscraper with offices, courts, a hotel, a U of T dep't, gov't services, etc. Such a tower would still be 50-storeys lower than the CN Tower thereby maintaining its position as Toronto's premier landmark.

Anybody with me on this? Maldive, care to do a rendering?

[valantino]

Renzo Piano / Cesar Pelli / Norman Foster-designed skyscraper with offices

I'd be okay with Piano or a top quality Foster (the firm is so big now it's become a factory of recycled gimmicks and gizmos) but Pelli does nothing for me. IMO, Richard Rogers would be perfectly suited for Toronto as well as a great rival to that British designed engineering marvel going up out west

[Elkhanan1]

^^Richard Rogers is fine by me.

[Dino Domingo]

Great to see this one back on the radar.

[vancouverite/to'er]

Lookin' good. Just wish they'd demolish the hyrdo building across the street.

[ONE HUMAN]

Lookin' good. Just wish they'd demolish the hyrdo building across the street.

Huh? Why? That's a great building. It has a beautiful curved facade that suits the intersection perfectly. While I'd love to see an example of this style built a lot taller, it would have to be built somewhere else because the current height is in keeping with the surrounding architecture.

Your statement is another example of someone that just doesn't understand the International Style of architecture. Sometimes less is more. Simple clean lines instead of ornate doohickeys do have their place in good architecture.

I would be very disappointed if the Hydro Building were demolished. Like it or not, it is actually a landmark building in Toronto, just not to the same degree as much taller ones.

[Dino Domingo]

I like the Hydro Building too. Too bad it's not taller. But I can think of many more buildings that should be demolished to make way for new projects, but this isn't one of 'em.

[globetrekker]

This thread has been dead for a couple months, thought I'd breath some life into it - by asking a question! Does anyone have new photos of the site? Anything?

[yin_yang]

no pictures, but they have been digging! it's not too deep yet, probably 10 or 15 feet. this is truly a massive footprint.

[CrazyCanuck]

Right about that Yin, the site is massive.

[Ziggy]

Photos courtesy rbt from his March Construction updates (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=596573) thread.


Mars West (http://www.urbandb.com/canada/ontario/toronto/mars_west/)
http://www.urbandb.com/canada/ontario/toronto/photograph_mars_discovery_district_west_tower_2008_03_15_7856.jpg

http://www.urbandb.com/canada/ontario/toronto/photograph_mars_discovery_district_west_tower_2008_03_15_667.jpg

http://www.urbandb.com/canada/ontario/toronto/photograph_mars_discovery_district_west_tower_2008_03_15_9476.jpg

http://www.urbandb.com/canada/ontario/toronto/photograph_mars_discovery_district_west_tower_2008_03_15_7335.jpg

[outinleftfield]

Doesn't that mean that the status needs to be changed from 'planned' to 'under construction'?

[urban 2.0]

Huh? Why? That's a great building. It has a beautiful curved facade that suits the intersection perfectly. While I'd love to see an example of this style built a lot taller, it would have to be built somewhere else because the current height is in keeping with the surrounding architecture.

Your statement is another example of someone that just doesn't understand the International Style of architecture. Sometimes less is more. Simple clean lines instead of ornate doohickeys do have their place in good architecture.

I would be very disappointed if the Hydro Building were demolished. Like it or not, it is actually a landmark building in Toronto, just not to the same degree as much taller ones.


... well the building "might be nice" - but the way the building meets the street is horrible.

If "International Style" means - impersonal, bland, generic buildings - well this would take the cake. It loses points for not being square - so we know they didn't hire a Canadian architect.

[globetrekker]

Thanks for the quick reply everyone - and thanks for the pics of the site. Much appreciated. This is one of my favourite developments in the city. I can't wait to see this jewel rise. That intersection is going to look sweeeeet when it's finished!

[current]

July 3

From University and College looking southeast.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3290/2659882604_5291b74a6f_b.jpg

From College looking southwest.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3112/2659882608_394b5f9b96_b.jpg

Looking south.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3168/2659882614_501b1ece53_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3272/2659882618_fa0689eb7d_b.jpg

[mckarisma]

last pic is very very very nice current...good shot!

[Ziggy]

Thanks for the pics current. Looks like they're making good progress.

I get really excited about this building, and office towers like Bay-Adelaide, because of what they represent for the vitality of Toronto's economy. The success of MaRS bodes very well for Toronto's future.

[Taller, Better]

Current, you are progressing in leaps and bounds with your photography... really nice to see it happen! :)

[CrazyCanuck]

I see two cranes, maybe a third for the north end?

[mckarisma]

^Yes the third crane on the north west corner is now up as well. Three cranes total now, ramp to be removed soon.

[thryve]

What is the estimated completion date for this baby?

I will be using this subway station a fair amount, which adds to my curiousity. The MaRS complex never really got me excited until I visited and was absolutely blown away by how expansive and well executed it is. It's also rather exciting being a research centre. :)

[Taller, Better]

^^ agreed. I find the idea of the burgeoning research community in Toronto to not only be exciting, but it bodes well for the future of our downtown.

Wonder if Steven Hawking is going to jump to Waterloo, as they are suggesting in the press lately.

[thryve]

^^ Waterloo is where I currently spend my time, and that made front-page news the other day... but then the rumour was quashed when Stephen Hawking's representatives from Cambridge said he won't be making the move. :(

He is, however, visiting us for a week or so, I believe. :cheers:

[Taller, Better]

Even if he has every intention of moving, his staff would automatically say he was not. That is always the case until deals are signed, as he is currently employed in Britain.

[Waterloo_Guy]

As for Hawking, I don't think we know one way or the other right now. Either way, Waterloo is becoming a very interesting place for researchers and scholars in a number of fields.

[urban 2.0]

Is the subway stop going to be built into MaRS?? and the current stop torn down?

[iliamo]

I love this building, it really is a beauty, now if only it was like twice as tall..

[mckarisma]

Is the subway stop going to be built into MaRS?? and the current stop torn down?

Yes, and yes to both questions..

[CrazyCanuck]

They better re-do the station cause its a dump. Except for the mosaic mural.

[current]

Thanks everyone for the comments. I am trying to improve and from that picture of Mars I learned how important lighting is. Light from the setting sun made that picture, and I happened to be there to take advantage of that opportunity.

Photos of the three cranes taken July 25.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3074/2704782596_328ff97446_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3274/2704782638_ef0071b6aa_b.jpg

[Taller, Better]

you are doing a brilliant job, current. We all owe you a beer at the next meet up!

[urban 2.0]

Is there any plans for a MaRS III? ... simply in proposal stage

[taal]

No I don't think so this is it.

Anyway where would it go?? The lot will be full after this one.

[thryve]

Hahah another phase of MaRS would be way down the road, I'd imagine, but not soon.

[current]

September 28

From College looking south, Mars is reaching ground level.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3219/2897686828_652c6f68a9_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3046/2897686856_e61065ac1c_b.jpg

[current]

November 5

Mars is now above street level.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3187/3017913348_e51ed02d6c_b.jpg

The Mars site with Murano reflected in the Hydro building on the right.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3232/3017913370_1089d547d8_b.jpg

[bar1967]

Some people over on UT are reporting that this project is on hold and the cranes will be coming down!! Apparently an announcement is immanent.

http://www.urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?t=620&page=19

Not sure how much I believe all this but sure would suck if it was true!!

[Filip]

It's official; we have epic fail.

Toronto's MaRS project a step too far

By Garry Marr, Financial Post
Published: Tuesday, November 18, 2008

It's one trip to Mars that's going to take longer thanks to a slowing economy, says the vice-president of the $300-million Medical and Related Sciences complex in Toronto's hospital district.

The second phase of the two-square kilometre project, dubbed MaRS, has been put on hold because the developers can't find enough tenants ready to move into the 750,000 square foot complex by the completion date set for 2010. Phase I of the project was finished in 2005 and its 700,000 square feet are filled.

"The construction has been suspended. It's a reflection of the market conditions right now," says Randal Froebelius, vice-president of real estate for MaRS, a not-for-profit corporation. "We don't want to build an empty building."

While rumours have floated for weeks that many condominium and office projects could end up being halted mid-construction, MaRS is the first company in Toronto to admit it does not make sense to go ahead. A two-floor parking garage has already been built, along with a concourse extension connected to the subway line, but both will all be mothballed until the economy turns around.

The decision was made by MaRS' development partner, Pasadena, California-based Alexandria Real Estate Equities Inc. Alexandria itself has been a victim of the slumping stock market, with the value of the company dropping by about US$2-billion in just under two months.

MaRS developed Phase I on its own but for the second phase it leased the land to Alexandria which is responsible for building and renting the space. Many of the potential tenants for the building are dependent on venture capital funding, a market that has all but dried up as wealthy investors refuse to part with cash on risky investments.

A spokesman for Alexandria was not available for comment yesterday.

"If leasing catches up we could end up back on track and be finished by 2010. The project was ahead of pace," said Mr. Froebelius, adding MaRS fully supported the decision by Alexandria.

The MaRS complex is billed as an innovative centre for companies in the science and technology sector in the embryo stage of their development. The idea was to hook those small startup companies up with business leaders. Firms like RBC Venture, a division of the Royal Bank of Canada, are on site.

MaRS received $70-million in funding from the Ontario government and another $20-million from the federal government but it has been largely funded by the private sector. The company's board of directors reads like a who's who of Toronto's elite, including Royal Bank chief executive Gord Nixon, First Marathon Inc. founder Lawrence Bloomberg and Roy-L Capital chief executive Joseph Rotman.

"This a lot like what happened with the Bay-Adelaide Centre," said Bryan Kerdman, partner at Toronto-based Edgestone Capital Partners which deals with venture capital.

The Bay-Adelaide Centre, now being completed by Brookfield Properties Corp., had its foundation constructed when the market crashed in the early 1990s. The developer closed it off and left just a parking garage and the site became known at "The Stump" for a decade -- a symbol of overbuilding during the last real estate cycle.

"I think it's a wise move. How much can space can be absorbed in this type of economic environment? That type of space is very specialized space too," said Mr. Kerdman. "These are very different times now."

In the case of MaRS, he says, so many investors are afraid to part with their money that small start up firms simply are unable to get off the ground. "These high-net worth individuals had some portion of their assets in the market and now they are less high-net worth than they used to be," said Mr. Kerdman.

Colliers International head of research Ross Moore says this could just the beginning of projects that end up getting mothballed in the coming months.

He points to the proposed new Calgary headquarter of oil and gas giant EnCana Corp. and notes how much trouble the developer of the site seems to be having getting financing for the project. Analysts have speculated H&R Real Estate Investment Trust, one of the largest publicly-traded players in real estate, will have to make some drastic decisions, like cutting its dividend, to finish the project.

"If H&R cannot get a project done today, how are mere mortals going to do it?" said Mr. Moore.

[Sid_toronto]

this is bad news.

[CrazyCanuck]

Our first casualty, and such an important one too.

[Filip]

I'm sure there will be many more. This is a very bad moment in the development world.

[Taller, Better]

Ouch... let's hope for the best that there are not too many casualties.

[Sixrings]

now does anyone want to admit RECESSION... even in CANADA....Taller?

[Ramako]

now does anyone want to admit RECESSION... even in CANADA....Taller?

The existence of recession is a fact-driven assessment, and is not based on subjective indicators, such as the postponement of a particular project.

[Taller, Better]

now does anyone want to admit RECESSION... even in CANADA....Taller?

? I think you are confusing me with someone else. I have never even mentioned recession.

[Marcanadian]

Our first casualty, and such an important one too.

Success II has also been postponed. The crane is down and there is no advertising at the sales centre anymore.

[DrT]

Since we have a huge trade deficit, we've decided to export calamity from the US. :nuts:

The cause: loaning money to deadbeats. One of my friends said, "Even my six year old knows not to loan money to people that can't pay him back".

Anyway, this is really bad. Very prominent corner, very important for high tech, high paying jobs, and they are millions of dollars into it already. I hope that the stopage is of short duration.

[Marcanadian]

Although this is bad news, I kind of wish they would take this time to make a slight change in design. I think it would look much better had they added a slight curve to the building to complement Ontario Hydro across the street. That would fit the street quite well, and build up to Queen's Park.

[Tuscani01]

Although this is bad news, I kind of wish they would take this time to make a slight change in design. I think it would look much better had they added a slight curve to the building to complement Ontario Hydro across the street. That would fit the street quite well, and build up to Queen's Park.

Exactly what I was thinking:cheers:

[monkeyronin]

The site is too narrow to have a building with an inward curve.

[Sid_toronto]

The site is too narrow to have a building with an inward curve.

you're right, they're already in trouble, they're not going to reduce their profits by reducing usable space. Although i agree from a design perspective it makes sense.

[monkeyronin]

Even ignoring economics and practicality, there is just no room there to have a curved building like Hydro.

[Sixrings]

isaidso
the new republic




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Big Smoke
Posts: 4,319 Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixrings
nothing... theres a recession

You've been watching too much foreign television. Various foreign nations are in recession, but Canada is not.

Sorry Taller shoulda cheked first