Home Depot | Proposed | 4 st | ??? m | Downtown

[The 'Sauga]

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/toronto/story.html?id=5bf6152f-e8fd-4234-b624-7ab0a0968450

Will Home Depot head to Queen Street?
'It's Acceptable'

Chris Wattie
National Post

Tuesday, October 02, 2007

Home Depot may move an outlet into a building proposed for the corner of Queen and Portland streets.

City hall will be asked next month to approve a development that is expected to bring a Home Depot to artsy Queen Street West.

The building proposed for the corner of Queen and Portland streets would include a four-storey condominium in the rear of the property and three floors of stores along the front, but those familiar with the project say it will be a home-improvement outlet unlike any other in Canada.

Home Depot, believed to be the main tenant of the 99,000-square-foot development, would base this store on a highly successful "storefront Home Depot" in Manhattan rather than the usual massive, aircraft-hangar-sized store.

Councillor Adam Vaughan, who represents the area, said residents were able to squeeze concessions from RioCan including a proposed public gallery space in the development, thanks in part to a city-owned laneway that cuts the property in two.

"It's not the greatest development in the world, but it's acceptable now, I think. We're going to keep pressing Home Depot to make it the greatest development it can."

Jordan Robins, the vice-president of development for builder RioCan Real Estate, said a modified site plan for the project has been submitted to the city and will be up before the city's committee of adjustment in November.

If the city approves the developer's plan, including what Mr. Robins called "minor variances" to city zoning bylaws, then RioCan hopes to begin construction on the site next year.

The property that is now a fairly undistinguished parking lot will become a four-storey building combining condominiums and shopping, apparently including an "urban Home Depot" outlet.

The prospect of a big box store wedging itself into the relatively crowded confines Queen Street West alarmed many neighbours, particularly the owners of small shops and hardware stores in the area, but Mr. Robins said those concerns were unfounded.

"People were concerned that we were building some 60-storey building on that site; others heard Home Depot was coming and they think it's a big, one-storey box store with a huge parking lot in front," he said. "There were all sorts of rumours."

But the developer insists it has gone out of its way to ensure the new building blends in with the neighbourhood, hiring architects that specialize in heritage projects.

Mr. Robins could not confirm Home Depot will be the main tenant, but said his company is in negotiations with "a major national retail chain."

"We've been approached by every major retailer in the country on this [and] we're pretty far along in discussions with one of them," he said.

Mr. Vaughan said many local businesses were worried a Home Depot would drive them out of business.

But the proposed store would not resemble the chain's huge suburban outlets, but would instead be a storefront operation aimed at supplying smaller renovation projects or minor home improvements undertaken by condo owners or apartment tenants.

Spokespeople for Home Depot Canada did not return phone calls seeking comment on the development. RioCan, however, is confident that it has won over most local residents who opposed their project.

"I think it's fair to say that people just don't like change," Mr. Robins said of the opposition to the project.

"I think we've addressed the concerns ... We're inordinately proud of this development. We've gone to great lengths to design it so it will fit in with the Queen Street West neighbourhood."

[valantino]

very exciting

[yyzhyd]

Mods may want to merge this with the existing thread. :)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=479067&page=2

[Taller, Better]

I've never been to a Home Despot.

[metroboi_nay]

I've never been to a Home Despot.

Concrete floors, wide aisles, from building to home lving, that's Home Depot, lol

[bigcityboy]

i was in the one in nyc in august. it's located midtown and it's all underground - except for the entrance. it had a different feel than other home depots. aisles were narrower and the product was more condo oriented. obviously no garden section - there's no sunlight. and it did fit into the fabric of the city quite nicely.

it's nice to see them at least try and fit into the city core in a respectful way. i just worry for the great mom-and-pop hardware store nearby. they've been there for years and are always really helpful.

[noob(but not really)]

Mods may want to merge this with the existing thread. :)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=479067&page=2

ARRGH they never listen. I recently pointed out that there are TWO OTHER threads on One Saint Thomas, and they didn't merge them.

[Taller, Better]

ARRGH they never listen. I recently pointed out that there are TWO OTHER threads on One Saint Thomas, and they didn't merge them.

Hmmmm.... I'm getting déjà vu...

[DrT]

I've never been to a Home Despot.

T,B, no one caught your freudian slip there! That was sneaky.

des·pot
–noun 1. a king or other ruler with absolute, unlimited power; autocrat.
2. any tyrant or oppressor




I'd love to be a home DESPOT myself.:lol:

[Taller, Better]

I'm glad someone caught it! This is the 2000's... we don't squander and waste wit the way we used to!

[current]

March 28

From Richmond St. looking north to Queen West. www.tributecommunities.com
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3093/2369543573_e651cfd8c0_b.jpg

[Skybean]

renderings?

[Biudo]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2232/2186263638_fd92fcf1d0.jpg

[vancouverite/to'er]

Are those seperate developments? Or are they just the hodge podge result of a Canadian architecture firm?

[thryve]

If you're trying to insult Canadian architecture firms I don't really understand your generalization because Canada has some incredible, amaaazing firms.

:bash:

It looks like one development the way it's rendered.

[current]

April 29

Future site of their sales office on Queen West just east of Bathurst.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3238/2453233856_504cabf390_b.jpg

[current]

May 2

Latest render.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2230/2460458898_b5f169e8ff_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2301/2460458902_f60061f052_b.jpg

[Mollywood]

That's not bad at all. Well, from what you can see in that rendering.

[kettal]

I'm not seeing Home Depot in the rendering??

[CrazyCanuck]

It will be in the building closest in the rendering. No signs are up for it. It's the best looking HD i've ever seen. Why can't they all look like that?

[Tuscani01]

It will be in the building closest in the rendering. No signs are up for it. It's the best looking HD i've ever seen. Why can't they all look like that?

Im wondering the same thing. Sure it might cost a bit more to build it that way, but condos (instead of a parking lot) can help offset the cost and give you a good, solid customer base.

[Taller, Better]

It is the power of public persuasion. The more interested the public gets in design, the more active they become in asserting what they want- and what they don't want. Obviously the Home Despot got the message loud and clear that a regular HD cookiecutter look would not be allowed, so they have pulled out all the stops. 20 years ago the cookie cutter design would have gone in uncontested. We are making progress! :)

[valantino]

jeez ... home depot may selll building supplies but they doesn't actually build their stores.

Has nothing to do with public presuasion ... the site is worth too much for an investor to make a decent return on just a big box headlease. Sell half or partner up with a condo builder though ...

Most big box in the city is located on undesirable land unsuitable for residential use. It of course can be cleaned up(at great expense) but what market would be there and at what price. Most condo developers do expect a 15% to 25% return.

[kettal]

It will be in the building closest in the rendering. No signs are up for it. It's the best looking HD i've ever seen. Why can't they all look like that?

I don't know about that.. there is one in Mississauga that is pretty snazzy

[Filip]

Yea.. solid project, better than what I anticipated.

[Jasonzed]

delete

[doogerz]

There is a home-depot in Calgary which is quite urban friendly, it is adjacent to an LRT station and has certainly improved the streetscape in the area.

Home Depot, unlike many of its other big box store cousins, are known to integrate themselves better in dense urban environments. I'm hoping they will do the same with this project.

[current]

Globe and Mail article:

More bang for buck, and bucking a trend
Intensification of land uses seen as cost effective while sparing neighbourhoods of yet more high-rise condos
TERRENCE BELFORD

Special to The Globe and Mail

July 29, 2008

One Sunday evening last year, Edward Sonshine was driving through north-central Toronto to his son's home for dinner when he noticed something peculiar while passing a small shopping centre his company owns: The parking lot was full despite the fact the stores were closed.

"I thought to myself there has to be a better use for that lot than to provide free parking for the neighbourhood," says the president of RioCan Real Estate Investment Trust.

And with that single insight an idea was born that now promises to revolutionize the way Canada's 30-plus publicly traded real estate companies treat their holdings. RioCan became the first REIT to begin the process of making better use of its large pool of land by intensifying the size and number of structures that sit on it.

For example, in Toronto, RioCan has partnered with home builder Tribute Communities to create two projects that combine retail shopping space - RioCan's forte - and condominium housing; in Calgary, it is teaming with Knightsbridge Homes to expand RioCan's Brentwood Shopping Centre by adding up to 550,000 square feet of residential units.

Meanwhile, Allied Properties REIT is looking at its 55 office properties to the east and west of downtown Toronto to see how it can intensify the number and size of structures that sit on the roughly 19 acres it owns.

At represent, they take up between 2.8 and three times the area of the land, but zoning bylaws allow for up to six times coverage, Allied president Alan Emory says. "That means we have plenty of room to intensify and create maximum value out of what we already own."

Others are certain to follow, says Rossa O'Reilly, managing director and real estate analyst at CIBC World Markets. "Many of these companies are sitting on very large land holdings, which are underutilized. One of the ways to realize increased value is to intensify what sits on the land," he says.

"It just needed one or two to start the ball rolling and RioCan seems to have done that."

But why was intensification never considered before? What makes it a clever option today? The short answer: the condominium craze.

"It is only recently that the juggernaut of inner city condos has created the financial rationale for redeveloping or adding to existing sites," Mr. O'Reilly says. "Major cities have stopped building out and are starting to build up."

Another positive factor for intensification is that politicians embrace the concept of intensification - if it combines retail and residential and shows sensitivity toward preserving the flavour and nature of existing neighbourhoods.

"I think projects like that reflect the future of this city," says Adam Vaughan, alderman for Toronto's Trinity-Spadina.

One of RioCan's projects occupies the corner of Queen and Portland streets in the heart of Mr. Vaughan's downtown ward. "What we want are vertical neighbourhoods that reflect the existing mix of commercial and residential."

In practical terms, that means forget traditional high-rise towers. Intensification demands imagination and projects that slip seamlessly into surrounding the community.

RioCan and Tribute's two Toronto projects have won support from politicians for taking that route. At Avenue Road and Fairlawn Avenue, they are tearing down a string of low-rise commercial buildings that include a bank, Blockbuster Video, Mr. Sub and a liquor store, and replacing them with a high-end, mid-rise condominium with retail on the street level.

"We have 22,000 square feet of retail on the ground floor and already all but 4,000 square feet is leased," Mr. Sonshine says. "When complete, it will add $250,000 more in cash flow than what is there.

"The only restriction I put on my leasing guys was no food operations. You can't have that in a high-end condo project."

At Queen and Portland, the same team is building a new mid-rise condo on a parking lot. The retail space will take up 2½ floors with a condo on top. One of the things that sets the condos apart is green space on the roof. The units facing Queen Street will have what is in effect their own front yards in the sky and all residents will share a large outdoor terrace - their own private park.

The retail levels will include both the city's first urban Home Depot outlet and a grocery store.

"Many developers looked at the site but almost all of them wanted to build a 22-storey tower," Mr. Sonshine says. "I saw the possibility for retail but the numbers didn't work. But when we combined retail and condos, the numbers were there."

Financially structuring a retail-condo project is little different from structuring a project where several condominium buildings share the same land, says Scott McLellan, senior vice-president sales and marketing at Tribute Communities, which is based in Pickering, Ont.

"There are separate meters for things like energy use, and when it comes to maintenance you just apportion costs according to use," he says. "For example, the ramp to the underground parking lot will probably be used 95 per cent for retail customers so the retail component pays 95 per cent of the upkeep."

Allied likely will follow a different course, Mr. Emory says. Its first priority will be to see whether adding more office space makes sense financially. After that, it will look at alternatives, such as housing.

"We would first look to see if the market can absorb the extra office space. We may find it is better for us to take development profits from partnering with a residential developer," he says.

Another option is for Allied to develop the skills needed for residential development internally and not rely on partnerships, he says.

"I think intensification is definitely the way to go," Mr. Emory says. "But to be successful, it will take vision and new forms of urban housing."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080729.PRCONDOS29/TPStory/?query=riocan

[urban 2.0]

Should Home Depot pay a TTC property surtax???

Their fleet of transport trucks that will be driving up Bathurst, King, Queen St. will be wearing out the TTC tracks at a faster rate with their heavy load trucks.

Therefore shouldn't Home Depot pay a tax premium for their destruction to the community and infrastructure?

[Crash2010]

Nice building, I like how they keep coming up with new ways to incorporate Big Box stores into urban environments...

[dleung]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2301/2460458902_f60061f052_b.jpg
I love it. And am incredibly jealous in light of the 220,000 square-foot box of a Walmart opening up in Surrey in the middle of nowhere.

[Taller, Better]

Definitely in the 'burbs they don't give a poop and will build any concrete monstrosity. Downtown they have to bend over backwards (and forwards) to be allowed to build! :)

[urban 2.0]

... well the drawing is missing the huge 2 story high florescent signs that will be all over the building ... like the huge best buy sign on Dundas.

[Taller, Better]

That likely won't happen if this is a condo project, too. I imagine that what you see is what you get for signage.

[Mollywood]

I'd like to see more large stores downtown with this type of urban design. It's a nice development.

[kettal]

Globe and Mail article:

Thanks for the article. I hope this catches on, it can be the savior of North York and Scarborough's main intersections.

[urban 2.0]

Nice building, I like how they keep coming up with new ways to incorporate Big Box stores into urban environments...


... who the hell wants big box stores in urban environments.

Go back to Oshawa will ya.

[bar1967]

... who the hell wants big box stores in urban environments.

Go back to Oshawa will ya.

IMO I think it is great. Could it be better, of course! Could it be worse, it sure could be a lot worse. Go look at any home depot in the GTA - nasty structures. As for what this brings to the city, one thing it will do is keep cars off the Gardiner, etc as people won't have to drive out to Etobicoke or Leslieville to go to a Home Depot...

[Taller, Better]

There is no point pretending that downtown people don't need the same type of services that suburbanites do. Should they have to drive out to the 'burbs simply because people don't like the "concept" of a multinational store being downtown?
There are some things you just can't buy at Dudley's Hardware on Church Street.
Better to be realistic and concentrate on making the big stores "fit in" to their new
environment.

[iliamo]

I think I passed the site a few days ago. Is it on Queen? Near Spadina?

[current]

November 9

Site is fenced off, looking southwest from Queen.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3152/3017616016_17c4017101_b.jpg

Shoring beams. Luna at CityPlace is rising in the background.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3164/3017616064_af1380e9c6_b.jpg

Trench at the northwest corner of the site.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3178/3017616074_bc94332c26_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3287/3017616088_ef48e3c09c_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3182/3017616102_5e8b0c27db_b.jpg

Looks like there will be car access on the west side of the building.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3008/3017616114_142ba495a8_b.jpg

Increasing rents on Queen West are causing another retailer to close.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3234/3016825631_15a3e8ddcd_b.jpg