Is MLG the new TLS?

[bigcityboy]

I was digging around for some news on this project and found this article:

Maple Leaf Gardens project delayed
LOCAL NEWS / No Loblaws superstore for a while

Krishna Rau / Xtra / Thursday, November 22, 2007

The long-awaited conversion of historic Maple Leaf Gardens into a Loblaws superstore appears to be on hold.

According to Onofrio Marcello, Loblaws' senior director of engineering and construction, a combination of internal problems and new management has delayed the project.

"We've had a real change in power," says Marcello. "The new CEO is Galen Weston Jr. We haven't really decided with the new management what the new vision for Maple Leaf Gardens will be."

Marcello says the company has also decided to focus on solving internal problems first.

"We've had some problems with our distribution network which we had to fix first," he says. "To stick a flag on Maple Leaf Gardens and say, 'Here we are,' when we're going through these changes would be strange.

"It would have been great to actually start this right now but when you're planning your budget, sometimes the furnace breaks down and you have to fix that first."

And Marcello also said that the original design for the superstore may be changed, which, because the Gardens is an historic building, would require new permits.

"It might be just a matter of the fixtures or where we're putting the various departments," he says.

Marcello referred further questions to Elizabeth Margles, Loblaws' vice-president of public relations, saying Margles would issue an official statement. Margles did not return phone calls or release any statement.

And CTV news reported on Nov 21 that the renovation would be delayed by four to six months because of Loblaws' financial situation.

Profits for Loblaw Companies Inc were down 20 per cent in this year's third quarter, which has affected the plans, CTV reported. CTV could not obtain an interview with a Loblaws official.

Neither does Loblaws appear to have officially informed anybody else of where things stand. The office of Kyle Rae, the city councillor whose ward includes the Gardens, knew nothing of the project's status. And Heritage Toronto — which is involved in the design of the project because of the Gardens' historic status — is also in the dark about where things stand.

Loblaws purchased the Gardens in 2004 after owner Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment moved the Maple Leafs hockey team to the Air Canada Centre in 1999. Toronto city council approved Loblaws' application to convert the building in 2004.

Wonderful, a company with no money to spend is going to renovate one of Toronto's most coveted historical buildings. This is definitely going to end up being a lowest possible bidder type scenario. I'm just waiting for PenEquity to step in to show 'em how it's done.

MLSE should have held on to MLG and scaled back the seating to house 10,000 people and put the Marlies, a huge sports bar and a hockey museum here? It would have been hugely successful. Instead the Marlies (Toronto's most winning team) play to a paltry 1000 people a game, and most of them little kids who cheer more during the entertainment between periods.

[Taller, Better]

Actually, I would be surprised if it goes ahead. They finally removed that old banner that was up for a couple or three years. I have no idea what they are going to do with this sacred old barn. As you say, it should have been continued to be used for hockey.

[Sixrings]

buy a second nhl franchise and put them in there...

[gei]

buy a second nhl franchise and put them in there...

that's one of those ideas that would just make too much sense to actually happen.

[Waterloo_Guy]

In this case I'm happy for the delays. Turning MLG in a damned Loblaws? My god. I'd rather see it abandoned and falling apart.

[Taller, Better]

You are getting your wish.


However, now that the fans stampeded out and dashed over to new digs, this temple of hockey sits lonely, empty and sad in the middle of my neighbourhood. Something has to be done with it as it is becoming a dirty, dusty mess.

[GridSky]

What about the Museum of Toronto? Aren't they still trying to find a spot for it?

[yin_yang]

a second franchise would make way more sense...some competition for the relatively crappy maple leafs and maybe some motivation to finally go all out to win the stanley cup. this is maybe the only city that can support two teams!

[TKTKTK]

Loblaws is so lazy. They should sell MLG to whoever will magically turn it into the Museum of Toronto. Then they should do something with their other derelict property down on the Lake Shore at Bathurst. How about something visionary like a grocery store attached to a food bank?

For the gays: build a new grocery store, Joe Fresh, LCBO, stacked thing in the park space under that tower on the corner of Church and Charles. The grocery could have an expanded pet section, a showcase prophylactic display centre, hedge-maze, and lots and lots of mirrors. It could be like the Guggenheim in New York, a big screw. You take a mirrored elevator to the top, and cruise your way to the bottom - grabbing fruit and meat along the way. Sounds pretty convenient.

[Taller, Better]

Well, because the barn is a sacred shrine, it is really not all that attractive to buy. I mean, other than a hockey rink, how many things can you do with it? Look at the catastrophe in Montreal when they "recycled" the Forum. Aren't there junior hockey teams that could use it?

[TKTKTK]

Well, because the barn is a sacred shrine, it is really not all that attractive to buy. I mean, other than a hockey rink, how many things can you do with it? Look at the catastrophe in Montreal when they "recycled" the Forum. Aren't there junior hockey teams that could use it?

Why catastrophe? Surely it can be used for something other than hockey. I understand that it'll be hard to adjust to it's new purpose - but hockey-or-else doesn't seem like a particularly wise strategy in the long run.

A convention centre, a theatre, a museum, a nightclub or two, an entertainment complex. Something.

The longer it stands derelict the greater its chances of burning to the ground or, like Walnut Hall, just collapsing under its own weight.

[Taller, Better]

I am not a fan of the renovation of the forum in Montreal... maybe 'catastrophe' might be a bit strong. It is very difficult to renovate these buildings for anything other than hockey, due to their shape. Don't get me wrong, I don't like it standing empty. I would love for it to be used for hockey. Barring that, I think the building will have to be substantially altered to allow for interior construction of maybe multiple storeys. Easy to say just change it into a museum, etc... but if it were that easy it probably would have been done ages ago.

[Waterloo_Guy]

What about the Museum of Toronto? Aren't they still trying to find a spot for it?

I hope they NEVER build it. God damn it, don't we have enough fake museums in this country? Even the ROM wasn't a museum the last time I went, although I've heard things have recently changed. Put your hand up if you've actually been to a museum.

MLG: As long as it's not condos or groceries. We need to use it well.

[vid]

Make it a sports museum/cultural centre or something. Turning it into a grocery store is a waste, it should serve a larger purpose than that. Though I'd take a Loblaws over nothing. Demolition by neglect is far too common, and is very preventable.

[TKTKTK]

I hope they NEVER build it. God damn it, don't we have enough fake museums in this country? Even the ROM wasn't a museum the last time I went, although I've heard things have recently changed. Put your hand up if you've actually been to a museum.

Huh? If not the ROM, what is a museum to you? And what is a "fake museum" ?

[vancouverite/to'er]

What about the Museum of Toronto? Aren't they still trying to find a spot for it?

Yeah!!

[vancouverite/to'er]

Make it a sports museum/cultural centre or something. Turning it into a grocery store is a waste, it should serve a larger purpose than that. Though I'd take a Loblaws over nothing. Demolition by neglect is far too common, and is very preventable.

Wow I was scared it might be a Superstore. Phew!!

[vancouverite/to'er]

Why don't they give it up to LCBO:cheers:'
Look at Summerhill Station!

[Taller, Better]

LCBO enjoys keeping its number of outlets to a bare minimum to increase profit. Apparently it is better to make people drive to get booze than to have them easily available all over the place! ;)

[bigcityboy]

the only reason there's any debate as to what this building WILL become is because MLSE (the shitheads who owned the building) REFUSED to let it remain a building dedicated to hockey.

back in 2000, melnyk, ottawa sens owner and all around rich dude, offered to buy the arena, scale it back to 10,000 seats, move his st. mike's majors there and put in a junior hockey hall of fame. but MLSE said no. why? they didn't want another 10,000 seat arena competing for concerts. that's why they have the ACC half-bowl. it had nothing to do with what's best for MLG, what's best for hockey and what's best for toronto. it was what was best for MLSE's bottom line.

simply put, MLSE is bad for toronto. they continuously put toronto taxpayers on the line to increase their profit margin. we pay for the ACC, we pay for RICOH, we pay for BMO field and we're paying for the leafs new practice facility. and they hold us hostage for deals every step of the way.

another example: during the lockout, melnyk (again) wanted to move his st. mike's majors to ricoh for the year. the ricoh was empty b/c, after only one year, the toronto roadrunners (edmonton's jr. team) picked up and headed to edmonton (i still have the inaugural year mug). but MLSE said they would pull out of their upcoming long-term lease to move the Marlies to T.O. if they did. it was a taxpayer built building. it was empty. and they had a paying tenant. but again, it wasn't what MLSE wanted.

MLSE has destroyed hockey in this town. and they've ruined a once great stretch of carlton forever. loblaws or no loblaws whatever goes in there will be a waste.

[Taller, Better]

^^^ ahhhh!! That is an extremely illuminating bit of news! Thanks for posting...

[Wrk_InProgress]

the only reason there's any debate as to what this building WILL become is because MLSE (the shitheads who owned the building) REFUSED to let it remain a building dedicated to hockey..

I agree that MLSE should have either kept the building or sold it to someone who would have treated it properly and/or kept some sort of cultural and practical hockey aspect (that might still be Loblaws on the second point).


back in 2000, melnyk, ottawa sens owner and all around rich dude, offered to buy the arena, scale it back to 10,000 seats, move his st. mike's majors there and put in a junior hockey hall of fame. but MLSE said no. why? they didn't want another 10,000 seat arena competing for concerts. that's why they have the ACC half-bowl. it had nothing to do with what's best for MLG, what's best for hockey and what's best for toronto. it was what was best for MLSE's bottom line.

A corporation trying to protect itself from competition ? What a shock.

Melnyk is proclaimed as a St. Mike's alumnus and all around good guy but he did the exact same thing you chastize MLSE for. Where are the Majors now ? In Mississauga ... For the record, the Majors used to play out of the Gardens although I believe that was before Melnyk bought the team. It would have been great if the Majors could have worked out at MLG but don't act like Melnyk isn't partly responsible as well.


simply put, MLSE is bad for toronto. they continuously put toronto taxpayers on the line to increase their profit margin. we pay for the ACC, we pay for RICOH, we pay for BMO field and we're paying for the leafs new practice facility. and they hold us hostage for deals every step of the way.

Without taking into account the state of the existing hockey team, I fail to see how MLSE is as bad for Toronto as you state.

The ACC was 100% privately funded.

As you stated before - MLSE has a lease/management deal for Ricoh. Ricoh was renovated (partially with city money) for the Roadrunners who had no affiliation with MLSE. They bolted after one year and MLSE came in with the Marlies. It is because MLSE was able to commit to such a long-term lease that the city was able to recoup its investment.

BMO Field was supposed to be funded by various levels of government and York University. York dropped out and MLSE stepped in. The city owns (MLSE manages) the sweet deal and actually has a very sweet deal. What is the problem ?

The new practice facility once again involved a third party and the city. The Lakeshore Lions club agreed to a mortgage with the city but still didn't have the right amount of funding to get the arena built. Once again MLSE steps . More rinks are being built and the public gets cheap (below market rates) ice-time, while the TDSB gets free ice-time. And MLSE will pay rent.

This will be the first public ice facility built in the last 25 years for the city. Again, what's the problem ?

[KGB]

MLSE has destroyed hockey in this town. and they've ruined a once great stretch of carlton forever. loblaws or no loblaws whatever goes in there will be a waste.


Couldn't agree more...MLSE might make shareholders a damed good return on their invenstment, but it's obvious the more intrinsic elements mean nothing to them....and that's too bad, cause they could also do the heritage of the game a favour, as well as put together a winning team for both the fans and their pride...but I guess money is ALL that matters...and that's a genuine shame.

You know what else is a shame....the fact that the city can EXPROPRIATE a bunch of private buildings and businesses from reluctant owners for that atrocity called Metropolis (or whatever it is now), but can't do a thing about the most valuable shrine in the world of hockey??????? Boggles my mind anyway.




KGB

[bigcityboy]

Melnyk is proclaimed as a St. Mike's alumnus and all around good guy but he did the exact same thing you chastize MLSE for. Where are the Majors now ? In Mississauga

how is that doing the same thing MLSE did? MLSE owned hockey's greatest shrine (and toronto's 2nd most requested tourist destination ) and outright refused to allow it to remain a hockey-centric building. melnyk needed a building to house his OHL team and when he couldn't find one in toronto he moved the team to mississauga. his preference was MLG. are you suggesting that if he really cared about toronto that he would have built them a new arena so they could stay here?

You know what else is a shame....the fact that the city can EXPROPRIATE a bunch of private buildings and businesses from reluctant owners for that atrocity called Metropolis (or whatever it is now), but can't do a thing about the most valuable shrine in the world of hockey??????? Boggles my mind anyway.

agreed. i'm so frustrated with the way the city messes up time and time again when it comes to these things:

- early 90s - film studio located at the downsview park - city screwed around giving investors an answer and so they moved the whole studio down to south carolina or something. toronto fell so far behind in studio space and they're only now getting their act together.

- mid-90s - dundas square's penequity disaster. no timeline for development results in a decade of blue hoarding and no design regulations leads to toronto's most horrendous building in decades.

- food carts on the street. we're a world class city with only hotdogs avail. pathetic. i know that's about to change (maybe), but waaaaaaay too late.

- union station deal - what the hell happened there? 99 year lease given under auspicious circumstances. that's the best they could do with one of toronto's most important heritage buildings?

- astral street furniture deal - fuckers destroy our city by grafitting every park with "info" pillars, which everyone knows are fucking ad pillars, and the city rewards them!

imagine if the city hadn't screwed all the above up how much better a city we'd be living in. but i still love it. stupid me.

[Mollywood]

I totally agree with you on all counts, bigcityboy. How can they screw up so much? TLS is probably the most hated building in Toronto and it isn't even finished yet. I don't know a single person who is happy with it. And to think, it was once completely in the control of this city. That's just too many wasted opportunities. I have no confidence in our city council at all.

[Epi]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is 'TLS'?

[bigcityboy]

Tragically Lost Site, Terribly Lit Signage, Toronto Life Square - you choose.

[yin_yang]

troubled lifeless shoebox

[Taller, Better]

Too Little SoLate.