# [CDN] Canada | road infrastructure



## DrJoe

Some of the largest and most unique highways in the world can be found in Toronto

*Highway 400*



























*Highway 401*









































































*407 ETR, World's first all access toll highway*
























































*Don Valley Parkway * 



















*Gardiner Expressway*



















427










*Map of the System*


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## fredcalif

I love that place, I have visited the city many times, and everytimes I go there. I am amaze to see those wonderful highways, Only Houston and LA can compete with Toronto


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## empersouf

Nice roads.


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## centralized pandemonium

I love the 401.


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## kshatriya

Amazing!


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## sonysnob

*Ontario Highways*

Hello all, I was just curious if the images from www.Onthighways.com could be removed from this list. I am the webmaster. Though I have no problem with images being used in this manner, unfortunatly having them posted at this location has caused me to overuse my bandwidth for the month. I do enjoy sharing pictures with everyone, but I would really appreciate it if links were used to the site instead of showing the images here so that the sites bandwidth can be kept more in check.

Thanks very much!
Scott Steeves

P.S. The 401 does rock


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## VAN-TO

My old horrible commute on Hwy 401 to DVP. (Looking east from DVP) :sleepy: 










The same area in 1956: (Looking West, the hill behind is where the DVP interchange was built) 









Hwy. 401- Kennedy Road Interchange in 1957 








Hoggs Hollow Bridge (near Yonge Street Exit) 








Hwy. 401 at Islington 
























How jammed Toronto's highways can be:


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## hkskyline

401 / Don Mills


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## Perth4life3

does anyone else besides ozzies call them Freeways? a hwy over here is like 2 lanes. a freeway is like 3 or 4.


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## Perth4life3

does anyone else besides ozzies call them Freeways? a hwy over here is like 2 lanes. a freeway is like 3 or 4. plus you use tolls im glad Perth doesnt have them.


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## VAN-TO

All US Interstates are freeways. US Highways are for more localized routes like US395, US50 etc.


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## DrJoe

sonysnob said:


> Hello all, I was just curious if the images from www.Onthighways.com could be removed from this list. I am the webmaster. Though I have no problem with images being used in this manner, unfortunatly having them posted at this location has caused me to overuse my bandwidth for the month. I do enjoy sharing pictures with everyone, but I would really appreciate it if links were used to the site instead of showing the images here so that the sites bandwidth can be kept more in check.
> 
> Thanks very much!
> Scott Steeves
> 
> P.S. The 401 does rock


yeah sorry, i can host them.


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## Wezza

I was unaware Canada used kilometres and not miles!!


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## VAN-TO

Switched around the same time as Australia and rest of the commonwealth.


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## Smartboy

Perfect !!! Amazing !!! It's my dream to know Canada and its highways.
:eek2: :applause: :applause:


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## centralized pandemonium

For me, the most amazing thing is the way they clear it of snow after a huge fall.


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## fredcalif

The more I know about Canada, the more I fall in love with that place.
I am big fan of Highways, and Canada is one of the best for that along with California and Texas


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## CrazyCanuck

Its funny how people say it's there dreams to drive these huge highways, when i can drive the 401 everyday. The massive thing splits my town right down the middle, thats how we define North and south ajax. I guess since i've grown up with it I just take it for granted.


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## Perth4life3

VAN-TO said:


> Switched around the same time as Australia and rest of the commonwealth.


nope the poms still use miles.


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## sonysnob

CrazyCanuck said:


> Its funny how people say it's there dreams to drive these huge highways, when i can drive the 401 everyday. The massive thing splits my town right down the middle, thats how we define North and south ajax. I guess since i've grown up with it I just take it for granted.


Funny, as a non-ajax resident, but living in the area. I have always described north ajax as the 'durhams big box', and south, as 'industrial ajax'

Maybe its just me 

Scott Steeves


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## 416

Why are you bitching when you are the cause of the problem?


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## LEAFS FANATIC

How am I the cause of the problem jack ass?

My job requires driving to various clients in Toronto, Mississauga, Markham, Thornhill, Vaughn, etc., all day. Do you suggest that I take the TTC to all my appointments or pay inordinate amounts of money for a cab to drive me to my 8-10 meetings a day?

Yeah, yeah...I know, for tree-hugging hippies like you who know nothing about a hard-days' work, the TTC is great and so is cycling in frigid weather, but for real hard-working individuals like me I rely on an automobile....and for the millions of others who work every day to support your welfare payments through their taxes, they rely on cars too!

NUFF SAID.


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## 416

"How am I the cause of the problem jack ass?"

What an utterly dumb question. I'm surprised you had the mental capacity to pass your driving exam.

It's quite simply guy. You drive, thus you contribute to gridlock. Compound your sob story with thousands of others and voila, you have daily gridlock on our highways.

Is that clear enough for ya?


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## Roch5220

LEAFS FANATIC said:


> No matter how nice these highways look, it still is not enough to rid Toronto of its insane congestion and rush-hours! I get on the 401 every frigging morning for work at Leslie St. and head west towards the Kipling/Belfield exit (just after the Islington exit). The ride is only 15 kilometers but it takes me *one hour* whether I take the Express lanes or Collector lanes. It is a friggin joke! No wonder there is so much road rage in this city! There are too many cars!!!
> 
> In my opinion we need twenty 401's to get rid of the shit that takes place on a daily basis for millions of drivers in Toronto.
> !


Actually, we have enough highways. Plus, studies have shown that by adding more highways/lanes, traffic doesn't improve. 

The problem lies with transit. I think the 407 should be trucks only, as well as sperated grade lanes on the 400 and 427. Goods should be able to flow throughout the region. If you choose to drive, then you already know the consequences.


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## sonysnob

Roch5220 said:


> Actually, we have enough highways. Plus, studies have shown that by adding more highways/lanes, traffic doesn't improve.
> 
> The problem lies with transit. I think the 407 should be trucks only, as well as sperated grade lanes on the 400 and 427. Goods should be able to flow throughout the region. If you choose to drive, then you already know the consequences.


Driving is more then just a choice. For many it is the only option for the commute to work, since most people no longer work in the CBD of a city. Transit is a very important part of the solution, but freeways and increased road capacity are also very important.

I was very upset when The Eglinton West subway line in Toronto was canned, and the Sheppard was scaled back. These would have made good additions to the transit network, but wouldn't have fully solved torontos congestion troubles.

Did you know that more people commute out of the Scarborough and into Markham then the other way around? Transit will not be a good solution to this problem because transit is good for bringing passengers from many places to one central place, and not from many places to many places.

Cheers!
Scott Steeves


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## Roch5220

^No, it is a collective choice. If people demand to work downtown, eventually things will change. Such as the marketability of locating in Manhattan vs its surronding boroughs and NJ. It is a business decision that firms make where to locate. It is also a lack of gov't incentives as well re: commericial property taxes. In addition, cause the gov't doesn't fund transit properly, the TTC system still handles ridership patterns from 1988, which isn't uptodate.


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## Fabio

really nice roads.


kay:


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## TRZ

sonysnob said:


> Did you know that more people commute out of the Scarborough and into Markham then the other way around? Transit will not be a good solution to this problem because transit is good for bringing passengers from many places to one central place, and not from many places to many places.
> 
> Cheers!
> Scott Steeves


Heard that one before, it is a good point, and Mississauga can also be noted as a strong and growing business city although it doesn't outpower Etobicoke (a bit of a high order yet). However with pulls going east and west at the same time at both rush hours, the situation quickly becomes ridiculous and it won't matter how much more highway space you add - it will be used up and over capacity again once it is constructed and opened. The same happens on railway lines in Asia - Japan Railway East has a very chronic problem with that pattern on certain lines (one sits at 220% capacity despite having 4 tracks to serve it).

I think part of the solution would lie in more application of flex time, but this is a dangerous gamble, because if it becomes popular then traffic will be just be slower all day than it already is, even though the DVP can't get any slower.

There are some exorberantly expensive solutions to some of the problems, and as such they'll never be considered. Transit can't solve it either, although it is a critical pillar to supporting the existing structure of transportation within Toronto limits, and during rush hours; the immediate (and a few select distant) suburbs as well. 

What I think the government is being silly is in its reluctancy to even consider the possibility of tolls on the DVP or Gardiner, and possibly the 401 at the collector/express interchanges. The only way to reduce the congestion is to make transit cheaper than driving, and while one could argue that gas does that already, people don't notice the gas costs as much as they'll notice highway toll charges . In a country that is supposed to be participating in Kyoto, this is a good move in support of such a program/agenda.

I generally hate highways and really large roadways, usually because they are walled off in large portions and as such act as a barrier as well as being uninteresting to drivers, plus the fact that they don't move through most of non-Sunday daylit time. The drive along the Gardiner is quite nice at night and on a Sunday's dawn. The 401, meh, really, too much asphalt IMO.


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## Bartolo

I'd like to make one point, it is faster to take surrounding roads than it is to use the 401 during rush hour.


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## TRZ

^Yep, more than half the time that is true, but not all the time. Usually only the city people know this tidbit though, Lots of the suburbanites don't know the city apart from their immediate work vicinity, and so are scared to get off the highway.


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## VAN-TO

^True. I find that the streets further South, like Lawrence, St. Clair, are not as jammed as Highway 7, Rutherford, Steeles, Sheppard or Finch. Don Mills/Bayview are by-routes I like to take as an alternative to the DVP.


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## Bartolo

yeah my grandfather and me and my bro were coming from the science centre to milton, and we got on the DVP and then at the next exit north we got off, took us 10 minutes to get from one exit to the other. It took us 90 minutes to get from the OSC to milton, taking the DVP (shortly), Lawrance, keele then the 401


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## O Natalense

:applause: X 1000


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## KGB

"In my opinion we need twenty 401's to get rid of the shit that takes place on a daily basis for millions of drivers in Toronto."


Well, we aren't going to get them...so if you want to avoid the worst traffic, then you have to come up with some other options (like moving closer to work...changing hours)...or just suck it up...ragging on everybody who doesn't drive as your big problem is just stupid.






"I know, for tree-hugging hippies like you who know nothing about a hard-days' work, the TTC is great and so is cycling in frigid weather, but for real hard-working individuals like me I rely on an automobile....and for the millions of others who work every day to support your welfare payments through their taxes, they rely on cars too! "


I'm a little confused here...you hate your fellow cross-town morning drivers, and you hate the people who don't drive too. Sounds like what you really want is your own private highway.

And what's with the bizzaro idea that you are a "hard worker" if you sit in traffic every morning, and a tree-hugging hippy on welfare if you don't?

I'm a little more worried about adults still using phrases like "NUFF SAID".





KGB


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## You are to blame

^ LOL


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## hylaride

*Hmmmm*

If you:
1. Won't move closer to work
2. Won't take public transit (or can't becuase you live somewhere that doesn't have transit that can take you to work)
3. Refuse to get a job closer to work
4. Have a job that requires you to drive a lot

...I find it extremely difficult to feel sorry for anybody in this position. They're doing absolutely nothing to help themsleves, but complain at other drivers or the lack of highways. Building more highways won't help anything, because then more people can drive on them; they'll fill up soon enough. LA, Atlanta, or Houston should be more than enough evidence to show that.

If you cross the city to get to your job, why are you living/working on the other side of the city? Surely when you either moved in one location or got a job in the other you knew what was going to happen. If you've been doing this for years, you've had a lot of time to realize what was happening and deciding to take a change in life.

How much is your time worth to you? Two hours a day wasted. How much do you equivalently make at work an hour? Don't bitch at other people when they offer solutions or to the government when they do nothing (build more roads/transit). Do something to help yourself for once. MOVE OR GET A JOB CLOSER TO HOME. Invent a teleporter. SOMETHING.


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## Homer J. Simpson

^I have far more sympathy for people in that possition than you. Traffic and highways are a fact of life.

Here is my thoughts on your points Chris.

1) In many cases it isn't won't move but can't move. Housing costs and size issues prevent people from moving closer to work all the time.

2) PT is great and I go to great lengths to use it, and I do succeed at it. But for some one who say lives in Rexdale and commutes to NYCC, taking a bus along the north end of the city takes forever. I kid you not that it might take 1:30 hours one way. That makes PT a little less attractive.

For me, instead of blaming a poor sap who is in that possition, I blame upper levels of government for not improving transit for that person.

3) If you have a job of your dreams that you are well settled in and it would be hard if not impossible to find another just like it, you too would be reluctant to change jobs.

4) Cable/Satellite/phone repairmen, electricians, plumbers, realestate agents,....... well many professions require quick hops between sites that are infeesable on PT and are all professions that we need as a society so there is not solution other than a car.


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## hylaride

Homer J. Simpson said:


> ^I have far more sympathy for people in that possition than you. Traffic and highways are a fact of life.


I never said it wasn't. I said that people in these positions don't do anything for themselves.


Homer J. Simpson said:


> Here is my thoughts on your points Chris.
> 
> 1) In many cases it isn't won't move but can't move. Housing costs and size issues prevent people from moving closer to work all the time.


I'm not telling anybody to move into a condo right next to their downtown work's skyscrapper, though if I personally didn't have kids, I'd do it in a second ;-). But if you're working in Mississauga and living in Ajax, what have you done to yourself? You knew what would happen, having to drive THROUGH the city, when you either moved to one place or got a job in another.



Homer J. Simpson said:


> 2) PT is great and I go to great lengths to use it, and I do succeed at it. But for some one who say lives in Rexdale and commutes to NYCC, taking a bus along the north end of the city takes forever. I kid you not that it might take 1:30 hours one way. That makes PT a little less attractive.
> 
> For me, instead of blaming a poor sap who is in that possition, I blame upper levels of government for not improving transit for that person.


I already covered myself in my point #2. If PT is not available, then obviously everybody else is in the same position. Everybody else is going to drive.

What should the government do? Should they build more highways? Where? Should they level a huge strip of land from one end of the city to another for a new freeway? What about property rights? What happens when that road fills up with traffic? I never said that they should build a huge subway from one suburb to another. People would have to rely on busses to get them right to their location.



Homer J. Simpson said:


> 3) If you have a job of your dreams that you are well settled in and it would be hard if not impossible to find another just like it, you too would be reluctant to change jobs.


I find it hard to believe that most people commuting accross the city have found the job of their dreams and a house that is any more expensive or perfect than they could find on the other side of the city. If traffic is affecting their quality of life, then they should be at least trying to do something about it.



Homer J. Simpson said:


> 4) Cable/Satellite/phone repairmen, electricians, plumbers, realestate agents,....... well many professions require quick hops between sites that are infeesable on PT and are all professions that we need as a society so there is not solution other than a car.


These people I have more sympathy for, with the noted fact that this is a cost of business.

Please keep in mind that I don't think we should level every highway in exsistance. I beleive that highways that go INTO cities are a blight, though. The gardiner in Toronto should go away, or at least be burried. Many of the greatest cities in the world get along very fine without them (Paris, NYC, Vancouver, San Francisco). Look what happened to Boston and Detriot after they leveled cities for roads.


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## Froster

> Originally posted by *hylaride*
> Please keep in mind that I don't think we should level every highway in exsistance. I beleive that highways that go INTO cities are a blight, though. The gardiner in Toronto should go away, or at least be burried. Many of the greatest cities in the world get along very fine without them (Paris, NYC, Vancouver, San Francisco). Look what happened to Boston and Detriot after they leveled cities for roads.


I dont think this is a very fair comparison. Firstly, Paris is an example of highway building through a city, except that it happened about a century before north american cities. Baron Haussmann raized huge sections of old Paris to build straight, wide avenues and to allow for various public amenities. Secondly, to use the example of New York as a positive I think is also false. New Yorkers suffer with the longest average daily travel time to work in North America, despite having the most developed transit systems.

I would agree that San Francisco is a good example of a city that can cope with its traffic flow, but that is largeley as a result of the decentralization of the bay area with respect to employment and transit.

It is in this regard that Toronto's transit system fails. Public transit in Toronto does not succeed in reducing traffic on the highways because it cannot replace them. The isssue is that many of the largest highways (401, 427, 400, 404, 410, 403) are busy because they allow easy, relatively direct routes to work for the massive number of people who work in the outer suburbs (like Mississauga or Markam) or in the inner suburbs (North York, Scarborough, Etobicoke, etc.). Public transit however focuses on downtown, with the subway and GO systems converge on Union Station. The only type of public transit that adequately serves the suburbs are busses, which are far from ideal for most people. Until there is a drive to either construct more highways in the GTA, and focus on improving the emissions and efficiency of the vehicles on those highways, rather than deamonizing the highways themselves, or the federal gov't gets off its pile of cash long enough to build establish a more effective, unified GTA transit system so that the majority of workers can use it, the traffic mess in toronto will never clear up.


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## hylaride

Froster said:


> I dont think this is a very fair comparison. Firstly, Paris is an example of highway building through a city, except that it happened about a century before north american cities. Baron Haussmann raized huge sections of old Paris to build straight, wide avenues and to allow for various public amenities. Secondly, to use the example of New York as a positive I think is also false. New Yorkers suffer with the longest average daily travel time to work in North America, despite having the most developed transit systems.


Avenues and boulevards are very different than freeways. Freeways promote no localism. The 'highways' of paris do not compare to the 401 or highways through other North American cities. Boulevards in paris have large sidewalks and do not separate large sections of the city with several lanes of high speed (+100km/hr) traffic.

The commute times for NYC also include people from far off suburbs and satellite cities. The suburbs of NYC are very large and cross state lines, and some people go for 2 hours 1 way! People living and working in Manhatten do not have those commute times, neither do people living and working in queens, etc.



Froster said:


> I would agree that San Francisco is a good example of a city that can cope with its traffic flow, but that is largeley as a result of the decentralization of the bay area with respect to employment and transit.


This was what I was advocating! I'm for mixed use development! The biggest problem that I see with current development trends in the suburbs is the overly strict separation of commercial and resedential real estate (but keep inustrial separate!). The way they're building now, they have acres of development for houses only, to the point where there are not even corner stores. This creates a very real problem in that it is almost impossible to get a house close to work.

What I do like is the burried highway philosphy. It works very well in the areas around downtown Montreal, without separating the downtown from old montreal! This is what they should do to the gardiner in Toronto.


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## Froster

> Originally posted by *hylaride*
> Avenues and boulevards are very different than freeways. Freeways promote no localism. The 'highways' of paris do not compare to the 401 or highways through other North American cities. Boulevards in paris have large sidewalks and do not separate large sections of the city with several lanes of high speed (+100km/hr) traffic.


I know that there is a difference between a Parisian boulevard and a 400-series highway, but I think that there is a parrallel in terms of the process to build them. Obviously the technology and time period separate them, but the levelling of large sections of paris is much the same as the process of acquiring and clearing land for new highways, which a city like Toronto desperately needs. My point was just that Paris' transportation system is the result of the demolition of old areas and building a new system on a blank slate, so its not like Paris is a city that survives completely without highways, its just that their highways were built prior to the development of the modern freeway.

Anyway, I think that the lack of highway construction has a lot to do with the wide swaths of uninterrupted houses because major industries and corporate activites will naturally choose to locate near to major transportation routes, and public complaints about the construction of new roads and highways impedes future development in these areas. In a city like Mississauga, a large number of higways have created an environment that is attracting a great deal of commerce to a suburban municipality, while Brampton, with access really only to the 407 and 410, does not have that widespread commerce through the city and what it does have clusters near these routes. There are lots of jobs throughout the city, but you can't build a local economy on back-offices and retailing alone, so the city survives on the development charges from subdivision construction instead.

If these highways need to be buried when going through dense, urban areas, fanstastic, but ultimately, they should be built, but there are far too many people with a NIMBY attitude who oppose anything but new public transit, which wont address the problem. Public transit has its place, but it needs to be coupled with an adequate highway system, and needs to be a decentralized system like the SF Bay area.


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## sonysnob

Froster said:


> I know that there is a difference between a Parisian boulevard and a 400-series highway, but I think that there is a parrallel in terms of the process to build them. Obviously the technology and time period separate them, but the levelling of large sections of paris is much the same as the process of acquiring and clearing land for new highways, which a city like Toronto desperately needs. My point was just that Paris' transportation system is the result of the demolition of old areas and building a new system on a blank slate, so its not like Paris is a city that survives completely without highways, its just that their highways were built prior to the development of the modern freeway.


Paris actually got its wide boulevards after a great fire. Its not so much that somebody went out and willfilly destroyed the city, rather it burned down. I do beleive however, that Paris is an excellent example of what a city should be. Inho Paris is nearly perfectly multi-modal, it has wide boulevards, two freeway ring roads, and an *excellent* mass transit network. 

Though, it was after a major fire that Paris rebuilt its network, it was built by viosonaries, who drempt of wide boulevards, that supported both driving and transit. Compare Paris, to London (which also burned down several times) but didn't have the same visionaries, and then look at overall city congestion. I think its safe to say that Paris is the clear winner of that comparison

Toronto needs more of both modes of transportation to effectively reduce congestion. Until then, both drivers, and transit users, will have to endure our long, congested rides to work.

Cheers,
Scott Steeves


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## Froster

sonysnob said:


> Paris actually got its wide boulevards after a great fire. Its not so much that somebody went out and willfilly destroyed the city, rather it burned down. I do beleive however, that Paris is an excellent example of what a city should be. Inho Paris is nearly perfectly multi-modal, it has wide boulevards, two freeway ring roads, and an *excellent* mass transit network.


Ummm... if the 60% of Paris that was redeveloped by Haussmann and his policies was the result of fire damage, that's news to me. I am aware that a great deal of Paris was damaged in the revolution, but there is a large gap between the revolution and the Haussmannization of Paris. He was in fact viewed by many as the willfull destroyer of Old Paris, and it took a generation or two for his ideas to be appreciated by the populus (he was fired afterall by Napoleon III to improve his public approval). 

Regardless of this talk about Paris, my main point is that no city is static. Every facet of the city is constantly changing, and Toronto planning doesnt reflect this. The great, livable cities of the world thrive because of their neighbourhoods and not because of an over-emphasis on the centre city. Currently, the fight to protect and maintain the core of Toronto is overshadowing the serious work needed to make the suburbs more livable, and I think its costing the city as a whole. More people leave the city to go to work than enter it, and our transportation systems do not adequately reflect this at all. I think at some point, people dont know what they want, until the right way is shown to them (like the people of Paris eventually agreeing with Haussmannization). (Note: This is not an endorsement of central planning or anything, just that sometimes the NIMBY attitude prevents worthwhile projects from happening)


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## hylaride

Froster said:


> Ummm... if the 60% of Paris that was redeveloped by Haussmann and his policies was the result of fire damage, that's news to me. I am aware that a great deal of Paris was damaged in the revolution, but there is a large gap between the revolution and the Haussmannization of Paris. He was in fact viewed by many as the willfull destroyer of Old Paris, and it took a generation or two for his ideas to be appreciated by the populus (he was fired afterall by Napoleon III to improve his public approval).
> 
> Regardless of this talk about Paris, my main point is that no city is static. Every facet of the city is constantly changing, and Toronto planning doesnt reflect this. The great, livable cities of the world thrive because of their neighbourhoods and not because of an over-emphasis on the centre city. Currently, the fight to protect and maintain the core of Toronto is overshadowing the serious work needed to make the suburbs more livable, and I think its costing the city as a whole. More people leave the city to go to work than enter it, and our transportation systems do not adequately reflect this at all. I think at some point, people dont know what they want, until the right way is shown to them (like the people of Paris eventually agreeing with Haussmannization). (Note: This is not an endorsement of central planning or anything, just that sometimes the NIMBY attitude prevents worthwhile projects from happening)


I couldn't agree more with some of your points on many NIMBY efforts. Recently, NIMBY have stubbed condo development on Sheppard Ave east, where the new subway line was built recently. By fighting increased density, they're fighting better transit sustainability. Also, the Eiffel Tower was considered a blight when it was first built. However I disagree with your implication that Toronto mush change to make the suburbs more livable. First, why should the city be forced to change at the whims of people who don't live there?While some effects of urban "renewal" have changed the landscape, say of Paris, for the better, you cannot argue that most of the current north american cities have benefited from highways going through them. Boston and Detriot have been mentioned. What these will encourage is simply more sprawling. Many Torontonians feel that the Gardiner is more of a hinderance to the city.

My personal distain for highways within urban centres comes from the fact that they bring destruction for their contruction, and little benefit for the areas that they plow through. They separate the drivers from the streets. Wheras on city streets roads provide direct access to stores and such, a freeway rarely encourages growth for anything save warehousing, manufacturing and other industries directly related to shipping.

I also don't believe what you say about more people leaving the city to work than entering it. From the direction of traffic on every road I see, and the direction packed go trains and subways go, this goes against everything I see first hand. Please cite some refernece on that one.


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## dtx03

Nice Pics…

A few years back I remember CFTO (local TV Station) did an investigation about Toronto’s Traffic Chaos. They came up with a report of proposed highways in the 50’s that were to be built in the 60’s. This is what I can remember, some being obvious:

1.The Scarborough Expressway.. the extension of The Gardiner to Port Union in Scarborough running along the lakeshore.

2.Markham Expressway running N/S and then along the hydro corridor, then E/W between Eglinton and St. Clair to the Allen

3.The Allen extended to the Gardiner , creating the Spadina Expressway

4.An extension from then the proposed 409 that would connect to the Allen and then connect to the Markham expressway.

5.McNichol in Scarbrough/NorthYork was supposed to be a proposed expressway.


Traffic would be a lil less chaotic if we had some of these proposed highways and byways. But then it definitely would of taken out some neighborhoods we're already used to.


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## Froster

hylaride, I'll get a source for the transit data as soon as I can. I know it was used by a Professor of mine, and I'll just ask for the source the next time I see him. 



> Originally Posted by *hylaride:*
> However I disagree with your implication that Toronto mush change to make the suburbs more livable. First, why should the city be forced to change at the whims of people who don't live there?


The city needs to improve the suburbs because they are legitimately part of the city. The attitude that the core comes before all else is flawed in my opinion. Firstly, the vast majority of people wish to live in a single family, detached home and this necessitates the development of suburban areas. The desire by some to force these people into downtown condominiums is completely infeasible if that is not what the market wants (and besides, who are they "saving" the city for, if the majority of citizens dont want to live downtown?). As for why should the city be forced to change, its because those people living in the suburbs are still part of the city. I dont see any reason why the people of the suburbs are any less important to the well being of the city than any other area/group.



> Originally Posted by *hylaride:*
> While some effects of urban "renewal" have changed the landscape, say of Paris, for the better, you cannot argue that most of the current north american cities have benefited from highways going through them. Boston and Detriot have been mentioned. What these will encourage is simply more sprawling. Many Torontonians feel that the Gardiner is more of a hinderance to the city.


I agree that the gardiner is ugly, and so was the elevated highway in Boston, but I would rather see a Toronto with a buried gardiner than a Toronto with no Gardiner at all (this is what the end of the QEW looked like before the Gardiner, imagine how it would be now!). I agree that Detroit's downtown is a disaster, but I would credit that more to the social problems of Detroit in the 50s and 60s when the downtown went downhill rather than a highway. I'm reallly not familiar enough with Boston to comment on why, but if the highways were that much of a problem, why would they invest so much into rebuilding them below ground in the "Big Dig"?

Besides that, I dont think highways promote sprawl. Actually, I'm not even sure what constitutes sprawl (really, think about it and come up with a concrete definition...). The city will definately spread along transportation routes, but if there is no market to support new construction it will not be built, and in this case, what's the difference between sprawl and growth? If the city is growing physically, then it is likely also growing in terms of population (Developers arent stupid- they wont build if nobody wants to live there). Is the Toronto of 1930 the result of the sprawl around toronto of 1900, or has the city just grown? In terms of contrasting sprawl to vertical growth of the city (though vertical growth does appeal to the engineer in me), what city on earth grew up without an external force forcing that to happen? A city like Toronto, or Chicago grew vertically because of the locational constraints of the financial sector, but beyond that, their growth spread outwards. 



> Originally Posted by *dtx03:*
> Traffic would be a lil less chaotic if we had some of these proposed highways and byways. But then it definitely would of taken out some neighborhoods we're already used to.


Amen. I work for the City of Toronto in the summer, and I remember while spending time at the Archives at the end of Spadina requesting some old Etobicoke bylaws that we needed at the office, and reading the report on the plans for the Metro highway system as proposed in the 60s while the document were being pulled for me. I was amazed at what was planned and at how far they got. Most of these roads would be a huge asset to the city if constructed. The only one that I wouldnt want to see built would be Spadina (which I think I would probably have been sitting in the median of when I was reading these plans had it been built  ) because the cost estimates were spiralling out of control due to the need to tunnel under Casa Loma. If the 400-extention to the Gardiner was built, I think that would probably have been an adequate alternative. 

For everyone who is interested, there is a fantastic site called Missing Links that cronicles the plans for the Toronto expressways.


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## KGB

"The city needs to improve the suburbs because they are legitimately part of the city. The attitude that the core comes before all else is flawed in my opinion."


Not sure what you are refering to here...is it a 416 (city proper) vs 905 thing?

If so, the 905 really isn't a "legitimate" part of the city, as they are separate municipal entities, with their own vision and infastructure. Basically, Toronto is what it is because of this...it's concern is for itself...Mississauga's concern is for itself, etc. Not to say a GTA region-wide body cannot look at where the region can get together for the good of the region as a whole.

Toronto, as a city, has a vested interest in having it's downtown core keep it's dominence...highly concentrated, mixed-use downtown's offer something decentralized cities cannot...the critical mass of a downtown is greater than the sum of the total of a decentralized city. This extends to the suburbs as well.







"Firstly, the vast majority of people wish to live in a single family, detached home and this necessitates the development of suburban areas."


Well, in Toronto the numbers would say otherwise. In the suburbs, the numbers indicate this is also not the trend. Besides, many people might like the idea of a single, detached home, but have been weighing the disadvantages of this...especially in the suburbs, where infastructure availability decreases and increased costs make this less appealing in the long run.







"The desire by some to force these people into downtown condominiums is completely infeasible if that is not what the market wants"


Who's "forcing" anybody? It's a market-driven industry. And again, the numbers speak for themselves.







"I dont see any reason why the people of the suburbs are any less important to the well being of the city than any other area/group."


Wrong way to look at it....the "people of the suburbs" are simply not within the jurisdiction of the city, and therefore are of no concern technically. It's Toronto's job to look after Toronto and Mississauga's job to look after Mississauga. It's the province's job to make sure the intersction within and between cities work smoothly....remember, municipal governments are just arm's length provincial employees.






"I would rather see a Toronto with a buried gardiner than a Toronto with no Gardiner at all "


I agree...the gardiner is a critical part of the ring-system of highways surrounding the core area of Toronto. Luckily, they were designed to have little impact on the built form at the time, while allowing access of people and goods to travel in and out of core without the deadly pin-wheel highways which have forever destroyed the downtowns of so many US cities. Now that the waterfront area has been changed from industrial to mixed-use, the Gardiner is now in the way...it should be buried from the Don Valley to the Humber. This is of course fiscally a pipe-dream, but that would be better than illiminating it, which would screw the entire ring system....which would not be good at all.








"Besides that, I dont think highways promote sprawl. Actually, I'm not even sure what constitutes sprawl"


Of course highways promote sprawl...how else are people living in "sprawl" supposed to get to and from their "sprawl" locations? Local roads and transit are simply not an option (or walking/biking). And that is what sprawl is...unsustainable growth. Technically, Mississauga is no longer sprawl...it's just building on what was once sprawl.







"Is the Toronto of 1930 the result of the sprawl around toronto of 1900, or has the city just grown? "


The old city of Toronto did indeed grow by either annexing surrounding towns and villages (and a lot of them) and simple speculative building...but none of it would be sprawl by today's definition, as it was all sustained growth.


The whole idea of building more highways into Toronto will not help matters at all, as growth will always be ahead of highway capacity...peak period traffic would not be perfectly met by any amount of highways. The main problem of course, is the impact of these highways...both on the existing built form and on the local road system.....I mean, the highways are not the destination are they? Once they get off these many highways you want to construct, they will then be on the local road system, which is definetely not built to handle it, and will decrease the quality of life in the neighbourhoods they are in.

Ever seen the traffic woes in European cities? Even the much higher fuel costs, insurance, etc still makes it a nightmare.

Traffic problems are what deter people from using them...build more that fixes the problem, and it will just fill up again, because it will draw those detered in the first place. The best way to decrease traffic, is to create a situation that allows them to perform their function as designed...the movement of necessary goods and people in and around the core.






KGB


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## Froster

> Originally posted by *KGB:*
> If so, the 905 really isn't a "legitimate" part of the city, as they are separate municipal entities, with their own vision and infastructure.


Yup seperate entities... just like say Leaside, or Swansea, or New Toronto, or North York, etc. What's the difference between the mechanics by which a suburban area in North York (in Toronto/416) and a suburban area in, say, Mississauga (not Toronto/in 905)? They will require similar municipal services, similar transportation, have similar demographics, etc. And if Toronto's past is any indication, they may be part of the same city in the long run anyway . As for the critical mass of the downtown, that critical mass only exists in certain, highly locationally dependant activities such as high finance, law firms, government, etc. Other than these areas, most companies can (and do) locate freely throughout the city, and in terms of tax base and employment, the effect is neutral as far at the city is concerned, and it is far more beneficial to have areas of significant employment throughtout the city so that people travel less which benefits pollution, infrastructure and quality of life.



> Originally posted by *KGB:*
> Well, in Toronto the numbers would say otherwise. In the suburbs, the numbers indicate this is also not the trend. Besides, many people might like the idea of a single, detached home, but have been weighing the disadvantages of this...especially in the suburbs, where infastructure availability decreases and increased costs make this less appealing in the long run.


CMHC housing starts statistics would disagree in terms of units contstructed, and market research shows that upwards of 80% of people wish to live in an SFD. In terms of forcing people, yes its market-driven, and yes, many people will choose to live downtown, but if the transit system favors downtown, and the city will more readily approve construction of condominiums in many areas, then there are certainly forces compelling people to live in the core. 



> Originally posted by *KGB:*
> Wrong way to look at it....the "people of the suburbs" are simply not within the jurisdiction of the city, and therefore are of no concern technically. It's Toronto's job to look after Toronto and Mississauga's job to look after Mississauga. It's the province's job to make sure the intersction within and between cities work smoothly....remember, municipal governments are just arm's length provincial employees.


People in the suburbs may not be in the jurisdiction of the centre city, but they work there, spend money there, and support the economic area that the centre city is a part of. Also, you are right that the city is an artificial construct that exists at the whim of the provincial government, but thats part of my point. While Missisauga, or Markham, or any neighbouring city may be politically distinct, they are tied to the success of Toronto, and Toronto is tied to them. It is in the interest of everyone to improve the state of both the centre cities and the suburbs.



> Originally posted by *KGB:*
> Of course highways promote sprawl...how else are people living in "sprawl" supposed to get to and from their "sprawl" locations? Local roads and transit are simply not an option (or walking/biking). And that is what sprawl is...unsustainable growth. Technically, Mississauga is no longer sprawl...it's just building on what was once sprawl.


Lemme guess, if I replace the word "highway" with "subway" its OK, right? Your point about Mississauga is even more confusing to me because it would indicate to me that the sprawl you are talking about is really growth. If a mode of development is inherantly bad, how can it become good? I think this proved my point that the term sprawl that people throw around so readily has no concrete definition that does not preclude historical growth that is now seen as positive or precludes type of growth that people see as positive.

I think most people would agree that the problems that most people identify as being issues with sprawl are more to do with the under-servicing of new areas. I dont think people have a problem with living in SFD homes, and I dont think people have a problem with living further from the city (especially if they are employed outside of the core), but people definately have a problem with getting stuck in traffic everyday. To me, if the transportation throughout the whole city were adequately provided, it would improve the economy of the city and improve the quality of life for everyone because it would allow people to avoid spending huge portions of their day fighting traffic.


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## KGB

"Yup seperate entities... just like say Leaside, or Swansea, or New Toronto, or North York, etc. What's the difference between the mechanics by which a suburban area in North York (in Toronto/416) and a suburban area in, say, Mississauga (not Toronto/in 905)? "


Except Leaside or Swansea are not separate entities at all, whereas Mississauga is. These areas are actually quite different in many ways...which is a reflection of being part of Toronto and not a 905 city.







"They will require similar municipal services, similar transportation, have similar demographics, etc."


Yea...except they don't. Toronto is a very different animal than the 905. Yes, they both require police and water and fire and garbage removal...but I assume we are discussing things a tad less fundemental than that.






"As for the critical mass of the downtown, that critical mass only exists in certain, highly locationally dependant activities such as high finance, law firms, government, etc."


I see you think in highly simplistic terms....it's FAR more complicated and comprehensive than that. There are many things beyond that which can only exist in highly concentrated, mixed-use, high density, engaging downtowns....that are simply never going to spontainiously happen in low-density, highway dependant, segregated, decentralized areas....EVER.







"In terms of forcing people, yes its market-driven, and yes, many people will choose to live downtown, but if the transit system favors downtown, and the city will more readily approve construction of condominiums in many areas, then there are certainly forces compelling people to live in the core."


The transit system doesn't "favour" downtown...downtown is where people need to go, and a transit system needs to serve the needs of the public. And what do you mean approve condo construction in other areas...are you familiar with condo construction in the city? There isn't a square inch left that doesn't have condos existing, u/c, or proposed.

This theory that people are being forced to live downtown is just plain weird...just like all your theories....do you dream this crap up way off in London Ont or something??






"Also, you are right that the city is an artificial construct that exists at the whim of the provincial government, but thats part of my point."


What point is that?? Toronto's city planning is totally different than the 905...that's why they are completely different. The province may hand out the basic responsibilities to the muinicipalities, but it is up to the individual municipalites to administer them as they see fit.






"It is in the interest of everyone to improve the state of both the centre cities and the suburbs."


No arguement with the idea...I just don't agree with your ideas on how and what those improvements are.






"Lemme guess, if I replace the word "highway" with "subway" its OK, right? "


Well, subways can only exist where they can be sustained, so that's a very moot point.








"Your point about Mississauga is even more confusing to me because it would indicate to me that the sprawl you are talking about is really growth. If a mode of development is inherantly bad, how can it become good? "


Well, Mississauga as a whole is improving....it was built origionally as the worse kind of bedroom community, car-dependent planning. Not really it's fault...it just came into existance when that was what was in vogue. It's at the point where no more damage can be done, and some of the damage is being reversed. Not that it's ever going to be Toronto, but at least it will have a chance at some reasonable dense, urban infastructure.






"To me, if the transportation throughout the whole city were adequately provided, it would improve the economy of the city and improve the quality of life for everyone because it would allow people to avoid spending huge portions of their day fighting traffic."

Well, if you are talking about highways running all over the place...forget it...it's never going to happen....and it will never be adequate if it did. That's the point you have to start understanding.







KGB


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## Froster

KGB said:


> Except Leaside or Swansea are not separate entities at all, whereas Mississauga is. These areas are actually quite different in many ways...which is a reflection of being part of Toronto and not a 905 city.


Except that they were seperate entities. Leaside and Swansea were distinct municipalities at the formation of Metro in the 50s, and are now completely integrated into Toronto (so much so that you appear to be ignorant of their former municipal status).



KGB said:


> What point is that?? Toronto's city planning is totally different than the 905...that's why they are completely different. The province may hand out the basic responsibilities to the muinicipalities, but it is up to the individual municipalites to administer them as they see fit.


My point was (and I think it was clear) is that the City of Toronto, as legally defined is an artificial construct, and can be revised at whim. This implies of course that at the whim of the Provincial government, Toronto can be remapped at any time. Therefore, to say that there is a significant distiction between a suburban area south of Steeles (for example) versus one north of Steeles is proposterous. I refer to my point above where neighbourhoods now accepted to be part of Toronto were previously seperate legal entities, and have since become "Toronto". Likewise Mississauga, while legally seperate is for all intents and purposes "Toronto" (using quotations to make it clear that I am not speaking about the legally defined Toronto).



KGB said:


> "They will require similar municipal services, similar transportation, have similar demographics, etc."
> 
> Yea...except they don't. Toronto is a very different animal than the 905. Yes, they both require police and water and fire and garbage removal...but I assume we are discussing things a tad less fundemental than that.


How is Toronto a different animal? See my comment above about North/South of Steeles. How can a neighbourhood on one side of the border be such a different animal than another neighbourhood on the other side of the border? 



KGB said:


> "As for the critical mass of the downtown, that critical mass only exists in certain, highly locationally dependant activities such as high finance, law firms, government, etc."
> 
> I see you think in highly simplistic terms....it's FAR more complicated and comprehensive than that. There are many things beyond that which can only exist in highly concentrated, mixed-use, high density, engaging downtowns....that are simply never going to spontainiously happen in low-density, highway dependant, segregated, decentralized areas....EVER.


Its good to see that you didnt stop long enough to consider the actual point. I know that there are lots of different activities that require a great deal of centralization, but I dont think i excluded that list to the ones that I mentioned. These activities will not occurr in the suburbs, because these are the activities by which we all typically define the downtown. But none of this means that there are not other valuable economic activities that will benefit the city and that can comfortably locate in the outer city. 



KGB said:


> The transit system doesn't "favour" downtown...downtown is where people need to go, and a transit system needs to serve the needs of the public.


Yes it does favour downtown. If I get on a GO train, where does it take me? If I jump on the Subway, where does it lead? Where are the streetcars located? Density supports transit downtown, but there is significant density beyond the core that is not served. 



KGB said:


> "Lemme guess, if I replace the word "highway" with "subway" its OK, right? "
> 
> Well, subways can only exist where they can be sustained, so that's a very moot point.





KGB said:


> Well, if you are talking about highways running all over the place...forget it...it's never going to happen....and it will never be adequate if it did. That's the point you have to start understanding.


And if there is a sustainable population for a highway, then it shouldnt be developed because it can promote sprawl right? I was playing on the idea that there are types of transportation that some consider to be the ideal, but the reality is that the population as a whole just wants the best way that they can get to work. These days though, people calling for public transit are dissappointed by upper levels of gov't who wont support them, and people who want highways are treated like what they need to improve their access is unimportant. I have no problem with public transit, I take the bus everyday through the school year (despite having a car), and drive all summer to work. I dont think there is anything wrong with advocating a mixed transportation system that includes highways and transit to meet the needs of as many people as possible. This is where I think you dont understand the point. Different people will need different types of transport, but ignoring one group over another wont help anyone. As for your point that its difficult to acheive perfect service for all is true, but I dont understand why that is an argument to not address these problems. Just like no amount of highways will serve everyone, no amount of streetcars/subways/whatever will serve everyone, so we need an intelligent combination of both.



KGB said:


> Well, Mississauga as a whole is improving... ....Not that it's ever going to be Toronto, but at least it will have a chance at some reasonable dense, urban infastructure.


And when have you ever see dense, urban infrstructure spontaneously developed out of a bare field? This is an example of the process by which the city grows with a trend towards increasing (generally) density. Mississauga's development is a great example of what I am advocating as far as the benefit of highways because its areas of greatest development have occurred within sight of the highways that criss-cross it (around Square One, Mississauga Rd between the 407 and 401, along the QEW, etc).



KGB said:


> This theory that people are being forced to live downtown is just plain weird...just like all your theories....do you dream this crap up way off in London Ont or something??


Yes, the idea that people are literally forced is wierd, but I meant (if you were reading) that people choose to live downtown at least partially because their alternatives are limited due to poor access from many parts of the city, and the lack of employment in areas of the outer city.

As for dreaming crap up way off in London, you certainly made me laugh. I mentioned in my last post that I live in the GTA 1/3 of the year, and work in Toronto (for Toronto in fact). I'm in London 2/3 of the time for school, but I have lived in the GTA my whole life (for the last few years in Caledon). So I'm not making observations blindly from 180km away. I really do love the Toronto area, but I am truly afraid that choices are being made that are very detrimental to the well-being of the city such as the lack of infrastructure development and this idiotic greenbelt (which I dont want to get into too much in a thread about Toronto highways). The innovative creation of a city-wide metro government (which recognized that "Toronto" the city goes beyond the legally-defined city), the ambitious construction of the subways and the 400 series highways definately helped to create the boom that allowed Toronto to establish itself in the last 50 years. However, the failure to extend these positive ideas and programs by failing to create things such as a new Metro encompassing the whole GTA, the halt to subway construction (Sheppard hardly counts) and the lack of higway construction (the 407 was planned long before it was built afterall - and being made a permanent toll highway is ludicrous) is, in my opinion, jeopardizing the continued success of the city. I know financial considerations must be considered, but i would gladly support an increase in gas tax to fund infrastructure construction and renewal (especially if this got lots of SUV's off the roads  ).


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## KGB

"Except that they were seperate entities. Leaside and Swansea were distinct municipalities at the formation of Metro in the 50s, and are now completely integrated into Toronto (so much so that you appear to be ignorant of their former municipal status)."


Yes...I am aware of all 13 municipalities that were involved in the formation of Toronto in 1953....I am also aware of all the other 47 annexations that took place between 1883-1914. But of course there is a huge difference...these were all older, pre-suburban post-war developments...many of them very old towns and villages built with the same planning....they were mostly small and needed annexation to supply basic infastructure such as water and sewage.

It would be at your own peril to assume my ignorance in these matters.







"How is Toronto a different animal? See my comment above about North/South of Steeles. How can a neighbourhood on one side of the border be such a different animal than another neighbourhood on the other side of the border? "


If you can't see it, then I suggest you look closer....and while the physical difference is obvious, a lot of the differences are not. And yes...the south side of Steeles is far different than the north side. 








"Just like no amount of highways will serve everyone, no amount of streetcars/subways/whatever will serve everyone, so we need an intelligent combination of both."

Except, public transoit is far more efficient at moving people around. Of course we need roads...who said we didn't. But they contain far more modal split than they could possibly handle...there are WAYYYYYYY too many people driving around....more people have to take public transit, and less people (WAYYYYYY FUKING LESS) need to be on highways. The reason this is, is do to poor planning from 50 years ago....giant fuking mistakes we all have to pay for now....and in the far future...because it's a giant mistake that is going to take a very long time to correct.

The only thing we can hope for, is that gas prices rise so fuking high, nobody can afford to purchase, maintain, put gas in and insure a private vehicle.

But this can never happen until we build areas that promote sustainable, mixed-use high enough density. Too many people live in areas that have no choice but to drive everywhere.

The solution is not to give into it and just ruin everything else by bowing to the stupid car and building enough highway capacity to support the mistakes...that's just stupid.








"Yes it does favour downtown. If I get on a GO train, where does it take me? If I jump on the Subway, where does it lead? Where are the streetcars located? "


It doesn't "serve" downtown...you make it sound like a conspiracy....mass transit can only locate in areas that can best support it...so yes, if 95% of all people who take the goddamned GO Train all want to go downtown....where do you think they should build it...Stoney Creek?????

Use your brain.





"Density supports transit downtown, but there is significant density beyond the core that is not served."


Last time I checked, the vast majority of subway is located outside of downtown. 96% of of every household is no more than 400m from public transit...with very good service. So...who is it you think is not "served". A public transit user in the most far flung and suburban like corner of Toronto still has transit service better than almost anyone in North America.

I think you are also discounting the fiscal and political realities at play here...it's very nice to be an armchair transit and city planning expert....reality is something much more difficult.







"And if there is a sustainable population for a highway, then it shouldnt be developed because it can promote sprawl right? "


No...that's not what I'm saying at all...please listen. Highways are absolutely necessary forms of transportation. But If you build neighbourhoods and towns and cities in such a way as to only be able to sustain one method of transportation, then you have made a mistake.....highways have a legitamate use, but should never be the only solution....otherwise development will ALWAYS outpace highway capacity.






"Different people will need different types of transport, but ignoring one group over another wont help anyone. "


Right...except which mode of transport is the one being ignored here??? Excactly.








" I have no problem with public transit"

No...you seem to have a problem with highways. And the answer to that problem is not making more highways accessable to the population...but more population accessable to sustainable urban transit.






"And when have you ever see dense, urban infrstructure spontaneously developed out of a bare field? "

Everywhere prior to the post-war suburban mentality...and within cities that promote good urban planning....check out the old railway lands in Toronto.








"Mississauga's development is a great example of what I am advocating as far as the benefit of highways because its areas of greatest development have occurred within sight of the highways that criss-cross it (around Square One, Mississauga Rd between the 407 and 401, along the QEW, etc)."


Ah...but when Mississauga was planned origionally, it was totally around the car...that's why they located the "downtown" in the middle of all those highways. That city is now seeing the errors of it's ways, and making the necessary changes to reverse as much as possible those mistakes. Luckily for Mississauga, they will make a rather decent go of it...but it will never be all that great...just passable...MAYBE. Can't say the same for most other places....too many people and politicians just don't care...and they will be a mess forever (or until the oil runs out anyway).

In the end...I am happy to let the people of the 905 decide their future...in the meantime, it is in Toronto's best interest to steer clear of them and not let their mistakes taint the city of Toronto...I never go to Mississauga, because there is nothing there for me to go for. I care about the health of the region...but then again, the health of the city of Toronto should matter to the rest of the region as well. And the more Toronto stays the hell away from the extremely bad influence of the suburbs, the better off everybody will be.



And you should stop reading so much Wendall Cox.




KGB


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## Froster

KGB said:


> I am aware of all 13 municipalities that were involved in the formation of Toronto in 1953....But of course there is a huge difference...they were mostly small and needed annexation to supply basic infastructure such as water and sewage.
> 
> It would be at your own peril to assume my ignorance in these matters.


The point was not why they were annexed, the point was that they are part of the city now. You make comments indicating that there is such a significant difference between life in the city of Toronto vs. life outside of Toronto, while I am arguing that the areas that were once outside, and have now been annexed and integrated into Toronto, and I see no reason why this cannot happen. If you take Etobicoke or Scarborough for example, at the formation of Metro, they were largely rural, with substantial suburban development, and have since seen increasing urbanity. Cities change, grow, develop, and cause the same to happen to their neighbours. There is no static Toronto, where everything in it is definately Toronto, and everything outside is not. Just like Toronto expanded before, it will again, and those newly annexed area will become part of our common definition of the city.



KGB said:


> If you can't see it, then I suggest you look closer....and while the physical difference is obvious, a lot of the differences are not. And yes...the south side of Steeles is far different than the north side.


I dont buy it. Since you are so sure about there being such a significant difference, please enlighten me. I dont see any difference other than a political boundary. If you do establish a difference, I would hope that it would hold true for all of Toronto, not just suburban Toronto vs. 905.



KGB said:


> Except, public transoit is far more efficient at moving people around. Of course we need roads...who said we didn't. But they contain far more modal split than they could possibly handle...there are WAYYYYYYY too many people driving around....more people have to take public transit, and less people (WAYYYYYY FUKING LESS) need to be on highways. The reason this is, is do to poor planning from 50 years ago....giant fuking mistakes we all have to pay for now....and in the far future...because it's a giant mistake that is going to take a very long time to correct.


Inefficient is a matter of conditions. If you took all the suv's and minivan's with only one occupant in them off the road you would improve the efficiency of the road system dramatically (obviously), or even if the gov't really put in place some meaningful fuel efficiency requirements (that exempted no vehicle that can be driven with a G licence). All these things are good, and developing public transit is great too. Im not advocating that there is no need for additional public transit (i explicitly mentioned this above), but I also dont think that there is enough highway capacity currently, and there will certainly not be enough to handle the future growth of the GTA.



KGB said:


> The only thing we can hope for, is that gas prices rise so fuking high, nobody can afford to purchase, maintain, put gas in and insure a private vehicle.


I dont think this will ever happen. People will not give up their cars easily now that they have come to rely on them so much. In my last post, I voiced my support for increased fuel taxes to support both road maintenance and construction as well as public transit. I would rather see that happen than to see the money go to the oil companies. Financial deterrents arent bad, but if you can get infrastructure rebuilt, all the better (and its a lot more desirable to me than a per household charge for free transit on people's property taxes that you have mentioned in another thread)



KGB said:


> Too many people live in areas that have no choice but to drive everywhere.


Very true. This can also be addressed by working to encourage people to work closer to home. This does not mean that everyone must live downtown either, but rather that encouraging mixed-use developments and ensuring that there are favourable consditions for commerce in the suburbs that extends beyond retail space. I would rather live in a city of Urban Realms (such as that described by James Vance in _The Continuing City_)



KGB said:


> The solution is not to give into it and just ruin everything else by bowing to the stupid car and building enough highway capacity to support the mistakes...that's just stupid.


Any transportation system based on a single mode of transport is stupid. That does not negate the advantages of highway development, it merely cautions us against considering it exclusively.



KGB said:


> It doesn't "serve" downtown...you make it sound like a conspiracy....mass transit can only locate in areas that can best support it...so yes, if 95% of all people who take the goddamned GO Train all want to go downtown....where do you think they should build it...Stoney Creek?????
> 
> Use your brain.


Its not a conspiracy, its planned. It makes sense to start construction of the subway downtown, and to initially target the downtown core with GO, but there is no reason to stop there. When you say that 95% of the people on the GO system go downtown you are probably corrent, but if you want to go to Stoney Creek, you dont get on a train going downtown. There should be more east-west transit routes in the city, as the only real east-west mass transit is the subway, which is out of reach for a great number of people.

As for using my brain, I would hope that you would avoid masking your lack of concrete points with a personal insult.



KGB said:


> Last time I checked, the vast majority of subway is located outside of downtown. 96% of of every household is no more than 400m from public transit...with very good service. So...who is it you think is not "served". A public transit user in the most far flung and suburban like corner of Toronto still has transit service better than almost anyone in North America.


By 400m from public transit, you must mean busses, which you and I both know are not ideal for a great deal of people, and are verry inefficient as a method of commuting. When speaking about transit investments, a bus fleet is necessart of course, but I am considering mass transit such as subways, heavy rail like GO and streetcars that will allow people who currently drive to have a viable alternative. These alternatives do not exist in the suburbs in virtually all of the GTA- whether inside of Toronto or not.



KGB said:


> I think you are also discounting the fiscal and political realities at play here...it's very nice to be an armchair transit and city planning expert....reality is something much more difficult.


I have not entirely discounted the costs involved any more than you do. I had previously indicated that I would be willing as a driver my willingness to increase gas taxes to pay for much of this. The infrastructure we have was built largely with this type of funding (before it was diverted to other uses), and I think it is far to have drivers pay for the roads they drive on, and to support alternatives to driving.



KGB said:


> No...that's not what I'm saying at all...please listen. Highways are absolutely necessary forms of transportation. But If you build neighbourhoods and towns and cities in such a way as to only be able to sustain one method of transportation, then you have made a mistake.....highways have a legitamate use, but should never be the only solution....otherwise development will ALWAYS outpace highway capacity.


The current situation is more a problem of no access to trasportation. People are relying on local roads that are slow to travel along and expensive for a municipality to maintain. I have never in this discussion indicated that highways are the only viable method of transport- merely that we do not have enough of them (as well as not having enough subways, etc.). All I have said is that there are huge swaths of the city that are underserved by any mass tranist or highways and that should be fixed for the benefit of the whole city.



KGB said:


> Right...except which mode of transport is the one being ignored here??? Excactly.


Both. Construction of any new types of transportation has been virtually non-existant. The 407 and the sheppard subway are drops in the pan compared to what we need. What I was saying was just that your points have thus far been very critical of highways, while I have been advocating that a mixture of public transit and highways is needed and I think that you must have a balance, not a preference of one over the other.



KGB said:


> No...you seem to have a problem with highways. And the answer to that problem is not making more highways accessable to the population...but more population accessable to sustainable urban transit.


I like highways, and I like public transit. I think that it is good for the city for people to get to work as efficiently as possible, and different people need different transport depending on their situations. Constructing neither urban transit nor highways is doing us no good. 



KGB said:


> Everywhere prior to the post-war suburban mentality...and within cities that promote good urban planning....check out the old railway lands in Toronto.


Development of the old railyway lands is hardly high-density springing up from a field. That was virtually an urban canyon with high density surrounding it. These lands had been developed previously, and are changing their use. What I was referring to is that as the city grows outward, it will not grow in a unifrom spread of high density, instead there will be a gradual growth of residential areas that will become increasingly urban as time goes by. There are no constraints in freshly developed areas forcing the city to grow up. It will not initially grow upwards until the area becomes developed already, land values increase, and as a result, new uses will lead to higher buildings and increased density. 

As for a 'post-war mentality', what is necessarily wrong with that. How can you expect the city to remain in the form that it was under industrialization? The city has evolved and changed, and really there is no going back. I'm not sure if there was another better way to go about it, but then again, neither do you, since we can only look at what we have. Regardless of what was right or not, it is certainly important to provide transit to people and businesses that are needed to be successful. 



KGB said:


> Ah...but when Mississauga was planned origionally, it was totally around the car...that's why they located the "downtown" in the middle of all those highways. That city is now seeing the errors of it's ways, and making the necessary changes to reverse as much as possible those mistakes. Luckily for Mississauga, they will make a rather decent go of it...but it will never be all that great...just passable...MAYBE. Can't say the same for most other places....too many people and politicians just don't care...and they will be a mess forever (or until the oil runs out anyway).


Mississauga planned those areas near highways, yes, but those areas did not develop until the highways were built, regardless of what they are zoned. To use the example of London (partially because it is a bit rediculous), the downtown of London is zoned for greater density than midtown Manhattan, but that will never happen because of the location of the city geographically, and also because there is poor access to the downtown from the rest of the city. Likewise, Mississaga may have zoned these areas near the highways, but without the access that those highways provide, those lands would not have developed as they are today.



KGB said:


> In the end...I am happy to let the people of the 905 decide their future...in the meantime, it is in Toronto's best interest to steer clear of them and not let their mistakes taint the city of Toronto...I never go to Mississauga, because there is nothing there for me to go for. I care about the health of the region...but then again, the health of the city of Toronto should matter to the rest of the region as well. And the more Toronto stays the hell away from the extremely bad influence of the suburbs, the better off everybody will be.


It is in Toronto's best interest to make sure that its neighbours are prospering along with it, and it is in the neighbours' interest to ensure that Toronto remains strong. There is no way that Torono will remain the same as it is without the rest of the GTA. I dont think there is a distinction (especially in economic terms) between Toronto the city and Toronto the region. However, I also dont think cities like Vaughan should so actively poach businesses from the rest of the area. As I mentioned before, a new Metro with all of the GTA and new transit/transportation programs to serve that area are in the interest of everyone.



KGB said:


> And you should stop reading so much Wendall Cox.


I had to look this guy up. I dont agree. He has lots of stats that may be true, but I disagree with the overall bent of the arguments that he has on his site. Names that would be more accurate as sources of my viewpoints would be Alonzo, Vance, Peter Muller, Sam Warner, Tunnard&Pushkarov, Kevin Lynch, and personal experience with Toronto Planning (current and looking at past works). The city is a complex place, Wendall Cox hasnt written anything that I've seen that is nearly pragmatic enough to reflect any understanding of it (besides which he seems rather beholden to certain special interests particularly when speaking to Congress). Im not the fan of the oil companies that he is for sure. I support emissions controls, alternative fuels, etc, because I think that the car is valuable, but that we need to work to fix the negative environmental impacts that it has (Part of this btw, is that I am no particular fan of hydrogen fuel cells because of poor efficiency- less than a conventional diesel of the same power- and because the only viable source of hydrogen is steam reformation of fossil fuels, which is in my opinion the root of the interest by oil companies).


----------



## KGB

"The point was not why they were annexed, the point was that they are part of the city now. You make comments indicating that there is such a significant difference between life in the city of Toronto vs. life outside of Toronto, while I am arguing that the areas that were once outside, and have now been annexed and integrated into Toronto, and I see no reason why this cannot happen."


Haven't you just shot yourself in the foot? If these once separate entities have been intigrated into the city of Toronto, then why are you advocating this happen to the 905 if there is no difference? Why does Mississauga and the like need to be intigrated into Toronto to benefit if you say there is no difference? Mississauga should be able to do the same things and behave as Toronto does...there's nothing preventing that.






"I also dont think that there is enough highway capacity currently, and there will certainly not be enough to handle the future growth of the GTA."


Not if the current developments ensure their use. Too much of the GTA is car-dependent. The cure is to decrease highway necessity...treat the disease...not the symptom.







"People will not give up their cars easily now that they have come to rely on them so much. "


Right...so let's do something to decrease the reliance on them eh?








"This can also be addressed by working to encourage people to work closer to home. This does not mean that everyone must live downtown either, but rather that encouraging mixed-use developments and ensuring that there are favourable consditions for commerce in the suburbs that extends beyond retail space. I would rather live in a city of Urban Realms"


That's excactly what I am advocating. More highways are not necessary in this scenario, so I don't understand your point. Either way, this is not how suburbia was designed.






"Any transportation system based on a single mode of transport is stupid."

Well, that's how suburbia was built. And that's why roads are over-used. You want to increase this...why?








"By 400m from public transit, you must mean busses, which you and I both know are not ideal for a great deal of people, and are verry inefficient as a method of commuting."


Actually, buses are very efficient as a method of moving people....transit efficiency is based on ridership levels and cost-to-service figures....I hope you aren't suggesting building subways under every bus route in the city? TTC buses are very efficient because they attract ridership with excellent coverage, excellent frequency, and the fact EVERY surface route connects to the subway and other inter-modal connections.







"I am considering mass transit such as subways, heavy rail like GO and streetcars that will allow people who currently drive to have a viable alternative. These alternatives do not exist in the suburbs in virtually all of the GTA- whether inside of Toronto or not."


Well, you are incorrect about that...it is entirely viable anywhere in the 416....just not in the 905. hmmm...starting to see why there is a difference between the two now?

And there is a very good reason why they don't exist in the 905....that kind of mass transit is dependent on a built environment that can support it...and that just doesn't exist in the 905. Who's fault is that?

If Mississauga is in such need of subways...then why don't they build them? Nothing stopping them...don't need Toronto for that. Why haven't they done it then I wonder??? BECAUSE THEY CAN'T SUPPORT THEM...and they can't support them because they have intentionally built the place not to.






"The current situation is more a problem of no access to trasportation."


Huh??? The 905 has a problem with access to public transit...but that's their fault...Toronto does not have that problem...or do I need to go over the stats again?






"All I have said is that there are huge swaths of the city that are underserved by any mass tranist or highways and that should be fixed for the benefit of the whole city."


You are starting to confuse me...when you say "city", what are you talking about...Toronto or the GTA?

There are not "huge swaths" of Toronto not served by transit....again...do I need to remind you of real figures??????

And highways are for longer distance traveling...it's not as though we need to build highways within a short distance of every houshold in the city like we would a subway station. Getting to a highway in Toronto or anyplace else in the GTA is very easy. Do you really think it's everyone's right to be within 5 minutes drive of a highway on-ramp???? 








"Constructing neither urban transit nor highways is doing us no good. "


We don't need any more highways...we need more transit-friendly development....that solves both problems.








"What I was referring to is that as the city grows outward, it will not grow in a unifrom spread of high density, instead there will be a gradual growth of residential areas that will become increasingly urban as time goes by."


Ah...so you think the only way to go is to build very badly planned areas first, and then try and fix them later? Sorry...that's just stupid.







"As for a 'post-war mentality', what is necessarily wrong with that."

We wouldn't be having this conversation. 


"How can you expect the city to remain in the form that it was under industrialization? The city has evolved and changed, and really there is no going back. "

Are you sure there's no going back? Sure seems like Toronto is applying smart planning to reverse any mistakes of the post-war era. 







"I'm not sure if there was another better way to go about it, but then again, neither do you, since we can only look at what we have. "


And what we have is...Toronto good....905 bad. The 905 had every oportunity to do it right...and they didn't. Seems to me, back in the early 70's, Toronto was building places like St Lawrence...what was the 905 doing?

Still convinced there is no difference between the two?








"Regardless of what was right or not, it is certainly important to provide transit to people and businesses that are needed to be successful."


Right...Toronto has, and continues to do so....the 905...nope.

Still convinced there is no difference between the two?







"Mississaga may have zoned these areas near the highways, but without the access that those highways provide, those lands would not have developed as they are today."


And how do you see Mississauga developed?? Been there? It's a mess. The new concentration around Square One is better than nothing, but this is more in spite of highways, rather than because of them....they have finally embraced a bit of smart development which tends away from the highways, instead of the old idea of totally relying on them.







"I dont think there is a distinction (especially in economic terms) between Toronto the city and Toronto the region. "


Who cares...but there is a big distinction between them in terms of lifestyle....you like the city...live there....you like the suburbs...go live there...just don't complain about the downfalls.






"As I mentioned before, a new Metro with all of the GTA and new transit/transportation programs to serve that area are in the interest of everyone."


Well, a GTA wide single municipality is unlikely to happen...political implications and economies of scale become a nightmare...don't expect much more than a regional body with little region-wide power (that will remain at Queen's Park I'm afraid....and probably rightly so).

In terms of a region-wide transit system, it would kill the TTC. The TTC is so good because it oporates within the confines of Toronto, which is built and designed to accomodate it's service....extend it's responsiblities to encompas the huge area that is poorly geared towards public transit, and the whole house of cards collapses.

No...for Toronto to remain strong, especially transit wise. it needs to keep a distance from it's ill-desinged neighbours. The best we can do is provide a good example, and hope they follow...if they don't, at least Toronto doesn't go down the toilet with them.






KGB


----------



## Froster

KGB said:


> Haven't you just shot yourself in the foot? If these once separate entities have been intigrated into the city of Toronto, then why are you advocating this happen to the 905 if there is no difference? Why does Mississauga and the like need to be intigrated into Toronto to benefit if you say there is no difference? Mississauga should be able to do the same things and behave as Toronto does...there's nothing preventing that.


No, I've blown your point to hell. If an area once outside of Toronto, can become part of the fabric of the city within the span of 40 or 50 years, than it mustn't have been very dissimilar, right? My point is (and has always been) that to establish a bouindary, and say, like you are, that one side of the street is inherently different, is a false presumption. The people on both sides share the same concerns, the same values, the same everything, all that seperates them is a road, and narrow minded thinking of people who choose to argue otherwise. If you talked to either group of people, they would not think they are different, so how can you argue that they are?



KGB said:


> Not if the current developments ensure their use. Too much of the GTA is car-dependent. The cure is to decrease highway necessity...treat the disease...not the symptom.


And by building nothing, you make everyone more upset. Highways are good for some, subways good for others, etc. but the current heads up their assess attitude by uppper levels of gov't is solving nothing. We have not seen any new expansion of the TTC beyond bus routes and one virtually inconsequential subway line in some time, while the population of the city has increased dramatically. This isnt a criticizm of the TTC, but rather one of a lack of funding for the TTC. Likewise, in suburban communities, there is no transit other than busses because of a lack of funding, and in other areas where highways would be beneficial both for commerce and commuting, there has been no construction either. The cure to the problem is to address the needs of everyone according to their needs. I dont think it is wise to adopt an elitist attitude assigning right and wrong ways of people getting to work and would prefer to concentrate on meeting the needs of the citizens. 



KGB said:


> Right...so let's do something to decrease the reliance on them eh?


In some cases, yes, give them a better alternative, in others make sure that they dont need to use them more than they need to. Depends on the area, and it depends on the people. Highways bring commerce, commerce creates jobs, and if you can give local people access to those jobs its better for those workers, and better for the city because they dont need to drive half way acroos town to get there.



KGB said:


> That's excactly what I am advocating. More highways are not necessary in this scenario, so I don't understand your point. Either way, this is not how suburbia was designed.


More highways are necessary for those areas that are not ideally served my other forms of transportation. If people in a given area can be served by a highway, and not by transit, then why not provide them with that highway?



KGB said:


> Well, that's how suburbia was built. And that's why roads are over-used. You want to increase this...why?


I dont want to increase this at the expense of other options, but rather in conjunction with alternatives. The reason why boils down to the needs of the residents, and what will address their needs most effectively. In some areas, highways may be more effective, in others it could be rail, or something else.



KGB said:


> Actually, buses are very efficient as a method of moving people....transit efficiency is based on ridership levels and cost-to-service figures....I hope you aren't suggesting building subways under every bus route in the city? TTC buses are very efficient because they attract ridership with excellent coverage, excellent frequency, and the fact EVERY surface route connects to the subway and other inter-modal connections.


Busses are efficient on a people per vehicle basis, but a minivan with mulitple occupants (for example) is more energy efficient than a full bus. My main point was in relation to efficiency of time. I have a co-worker who rides the subways everyday from north york to work (in etobicoke) who is served very well by busses and subways, but it takes him twice as long to take transit than to drive. In a case like that, he stays entirely within the TTC system, but due to the switching from route to route (including the subway) he is left with a preference to drive to work when possible. To me this indicates that the transit system needs to be expanded to help this coworker, but I personally would benefit more from a highway. This is the type of situation that I think shows the need for new construction of highways and transit. You are right to point out that the TTC does a great job with what it has, but it could be and should be better, likewise, in this thread we can see that Toronto has some amazing highways, but if they are jammed everynight, along with alternative routes, we clearly need to address that too.



KGB said:


> Well, you are incorrect about that...it is entirely viable anywhere in the 416....just not in the 905. hmmm...starting to see why there is a difference between the two now?


Nope still dont. I dont see why if transit is effective in one city, another city could not benefit as well. Likewise, if one city has good highway access, another city could not benefit as well. A mix of both for both areas would likely provide a much more efficient system overall.



KGB said:


> If Mississauga is in such need of subways...then why don't they build them? Nothing stopping them...don't need Toronto for that. Why haven't they done it then I wonder??? BECAUSE THEY CAN'T SUPPORT THEM...and they can't support them because they have intentionally built the place not to.


Umm... Toronto isnt building subways either (you and I both know that Sheppard is inconsequential). Does that mean that Toronto cant support them and the whole idea should be scrapped? No. The reason why the GTA isnt seeing development of the transit system is that no municipality can shoulder the capital expense alone, and the upper levels of gov't are unwilling to work to address that. There are lots of suburban areas that could support them, but can not construct them on the property tax base alone, just like there are lots of areas in Toronto that could use improved highway access, but they also cannot afford to build them.



KGB said:


> Huh??? The 905 has a problem with access to public transit...but that's their fault...Toronto does not have that problem...or do I need to go over the stats again?


What stats? 400m from a bus stop? I dont think there are many cities in the 905 that would fail to meet that simple measure. Hell, even London's pathetic transit system can boast service like that. Things need to be better than that. 



KGB said:


> You are starting to confuse me...when you say "city", what are you talking about...Toronto or the GTA?


There are huge swaths of TORONTO unserved by mass transit (read: other than busses). If you live in the NW of the city or basically any part of Scarborough other than near the town centre, you are a LONG way away from any transit other than a bus. Thats no different from the situation in the suburbs hence my point that these areas will have very common concerns with the suburbs, despite being in Toronto and the TTC service area.



KGB said:


> There are not "huge swaths" of Toronto not served by transit....again...do I need to remind you of real figures??????


There are not areas devoid of all transit, but there are many areas that are not served by the type of high-speed, efficient types of transit tha will keep people out of their cars.



KGB said:


> And highways are for longer distance traveling...it's not as though we need to build highways within a short distance of every houshold in the city like we would a subway station. Getting to a highway in Toronto or anyplace else in the GTA is very easy. Do you really think it's everyone's right to be within 5 minutes drive of a highway on-ramp????


Highways are not just for long distance, they are also to route traffic efficiently through a city. Distance is not a direct result of highway use, but it is a byproduct of people working farther from home than they would probably like to. Highways enable these people to some degree, but they also enable the transport of goods within a city that will lead to more favourable conditions to create more jobs, so people will not have to travel as far.



KGB said:


> We don't need any more highways...we need more transit-friendly development....that solves both problems.


No it doesnt. The problem is not sovled by forcing people to make a dramatic change in their lifestyle, it is solved by working to include people in a system that works to balance their wants with a set of conditions that will enable those wants. This is the type of argument that will never work. In a democratic system such as ours, the idea that you can force people to conform to an ideal such as yours is as infeasible as proposing that everyone can have hover cars. If people dont want to, they wont. Its that simple. Therefore, I think it is better to work to match people expectations with a means to acheive those expectations. Gas tax, lower emissions, greater efficiency, etc. would all mitigate the negative effects of car use, while providing a revenue stream to support transit and highways.



KGB said:


> Ah...so you think the only way to go is to build very badly planned areas first, and then try and fix them later? Sorry...that's just stupid.


Did you get distracted and read another post? I said that cities grow outward in a fairly predictable progression. They spread with progressive degrees of density, radiating from more dense centre along transportation routes. Only an aritificially imposed barrier can hasten this urbanization to proceed with higher densities, but this strategy comes at the price of making rents and housing prices rise out of reach of many people.



KGB said:


> We wouldn't be having this conversation.


This hardly addresses the point. Its true that planning trends are somewhat cyclical so certain periods will be attractive to some, other periods attractive to others, so you may inherently dislike post-war planning ideas, but my point was more that this is all done, and that we must still provide for the health of these area as is necessary.




KGB said:


> Are you sure there's no going back? Sure seems like Toronto is applying smart planning to revrse any mistakes of the post-war era.


Yes there is no going back. I dont see any examples in Toronto of urban areas reverting to rural use. I do see the development of increasing urbanity in some areas, but thats hardly going back. As I said above, trends are cyclical, but there really isnt any regression of the city. 



KGB said:


> And what we have is...Toronto good....905 bad. The 905 had every oportunity to do it right...and they didn't. Seems to me, back in the early 70's, Toronto was building places like St Lawrence...what was the 905 doing?
> 
> Still convinced there is no difference between the two?


I really hope that you are not seriously this close-minded. Toronto is not all good, the 905 is not all bad. There is allways room for improvement. Its interesting that you mention the 70s, a period where poorly conceived development controls forced housing prices in Toronto to sky-rocket, and placed conditions on the surrounding municipalities that they could not adequately provide under. Decisions such as limiting sewer and water service expansions north of the city inflated the market in Toronto, and limited the density and types of development possible everywhere else. Once these policies were revoke, there was a sudden boom in the 905 as a result. If it werent for this needless meddling, more gradual growth likely could have occured, and the people of Toronto would have been able to enjoy a much lower cost of living. 

"Regardless of what was right or not, it is certainly important to provide transit to people and businesses that are needed to be successful."



KGB said:


> And how do you see Mississauga developed?? Been there? It's a mess. The new concentration around Square One is better than nothing, but this is more in spite of highways, rather than because of them....they have finally embraced a bit of smart development which tends away from the highways, instead of the old idea of totally relying on them.


As a matter of fact, yes I have been there. Taking criticism in this regard from someone who previously commented that he never goes there is rather rich. How is Square One in spite of highways? It is near to the 401, beside the 403. Likewise, new commercial construction is occuring on Mississauga Rd between the 407 and 401. Erin mills is near many of the same highways. Only the areas that predate the highways like streetsville and Port Credit can be relistically described as existing without aid of the highways, but they are a minor component of the population and the economy.



KGB said:


> Who cares...but there is a big distinction between them in terms of lifestyle....you like the city...live there....you like the suburbs...go live there...just don't complain about the downfalls.


To go back to my previous example (because I dont think you have ever come close to explaining it in your 416-good 905-bad world), if I looked at two suburban communities across Steeles from each other, there is no difference other than a political boundary. You seem willing to suport the calls for the people south of steeles for transit, but the ones on the other side of the road made a choice that you argue excludes them from consideration.



KGB said:


> Well, a GTA wide single municipality is unlikely to happen...political implications and economies of scale become a nightmare...don't expect much more than a regional body with little region-wide power (that will remain at Queen's Park I'm afraid....and probably rightly so).
> 
> In terms of a region-wide transit system, it would kill the TTC. The TTC is so good because it oporates within the confines of Toronto, which is built and designed to accomodate it's service....extend it's responsiblities to encompas the huge area that is poorly geared towards public transit, and the whole house of cards collapses.
> 
> No...for Toronto to remain strong, especially transit wise. it needs to keep a distance from it's ill-desinged neighbours. The best we can do is provide a good example, and hope they follow...if they don't, at least Toronto doesn't go down the toilet with them.


These arguments arent new, people said the same thing about Metro, amalgamation of some of the cities in Metro, and then finally the Megacity. Integration of beurocracies will be difficult no doubt, but binding coordination between all of the GTA is a necessary step to ensuring that city remains strong. Would it not be desirable if Mississauga or Vaughan did not so actively compete with Toronto to attract businesses?

As for the TTC, it would be much more effective in acheiving the goals that you have for it (to get people to use it rather than a car) if people could access it directly. By grouping all transit in the GTA together, much more can be accomplished by making sure that the entire area is served in the most effective way possible. Can you imagine the number of people that are discouraged from using transit with each additional transfer they must make between their home and their destination? A unified transit system is much better equipped to deal with this than a collection of disjointed systems.


----------



## james2390

Great stuff! Freeways are fun.


----------



## KGB

"No, I've blown your point to hell."


Yea...sure you have....I know ya are...but what am I?







"If an area once outside of Toronto, can become part of the fabric of the city within the span of 40 or 50 years, than it mustn't have been very dissimilar, right? "


Wrong...either they were pre-war areas that already had similar built form...or new areas which reflected the planning values of the City of Toronto (at varying times)








"My point is (and has always been) that to establish a bouindary, and say, like you are, that one side of the street is inherently different, is a false presumption."


And I'm saying that isn't the case...you are just imagining this from whatever simple ideas come into your head...I'm going on actual experience and physical/demographic ecidence.







"If you talked to either group of people, they would not think they are different, so how can you argue that they are? "


I have...you see, I actually have a long history of cross-border experience.








"And by building nothing, you make everyone more upset."


Well, transit has been expanded in the 905 (considering it practically didn't exist a short while ago)...but it's very difficult to make a go of it, if too much of the development is not transit-sustainable. The trick is to build more transit-friendly developments, and expand on what is already there. 






"in suburban communities, there is no transit other than busses because of a lack of funding"


All transit needs more funding...but the root of the problem with the suburbs is not a lack of funding...but a lack of transit-friendly development. Buses are the only viable mode that can be sustained...outside of commuter transit.






"The cure to the problem is to address the needs of everyone according to their needs."

Illogical sentence...but I know what you are trying to say. But the answer is no....you want to cater to bad planning by appeasing them...this is just wrong.







"I dont think it is wise to adopt an elitist attitude assigning right and wrong ways of people getting to work and would prefer to concentrate on meeting the needs of the citizens."


Sorry, but all this sprawl is hurting everyone...it has to be stopped...rewarding bad planning by trying to sustain it is just plain stupid....it would never work even if we had the land, money toi do it (which we don't).








"In some cases, yes, give them a better alternative, in others make sure that they dont need to use them more than they need to. Depends on the area, and it depends on the people."


What do we call that kind of talk...gobble-de-****??? he he

Let's pretend that makes some kind of sense...so in some cases, we should offer people better alternatives (I would think everyone should have better alternatives). Make sure they don't need to use them more than they need to??????? That's like a Salvadore Dali sentence or something??? Makes no sense.









"Highways bring commerce, commerce creates jobs, and if you can give local people access to those jobs its better for those workers, and better for the city because they dont need to drive half way acroos town to get there."


Right...and wouldn't better transit and beter mixed-use developments do that? What's hurting commerce and jobs is the unecessary clogging of our roads that don't need to be.








"More highways are necessary for those areas that are not ideally served my other forms of transportation. If people in a given area can be served by a highway, and not by transit, then why not provide them with that highway? "


More highways are not necessary...the ones we have are more than adequate to handle what they are designed for. If what we are lacking, is better transit service in the suburbs, and not having it is causing havoc on our roads...wouldn't the intelligent solution be to provide what is missing and causing huge problems....LIKE FUKING TRANSIT!!!








"Busses are efficient on a people per vehicle basis, but a minivan with mulitple occupants (for example) is more energy efficient than a full bus."


Well holy shit!!!....you should inform the TTC of this discovery of yours...they should replace all vehicles with mini-vans obviously. LOL Com'on dude...you've said a lot of stupid things so far...but this takes the cake.







"My main point was in relation to efficiency of time. I have a co-worker who rides the subways everyday from north york to work (in etobicoke) who is served very well by busses and subways, but it takes him twice as long to take transit than to drive."


The advantages of public transit is not always just how long it takes. But...if everyone took that attitude, the local roads would be even worse than they are now. Maybe he's one of those people clogging up the highways who doesn't need to be? 






"To me this indicates that the transit system needs to be expanded to help this coworker, but I personally would benefit more from a highway."


Well, first of all, it's not all about you and your prefernce to drive your car all over the place (you sound like that useless fat fuk suburban yuppie scumbag councior Rob Ford), and secondly, mass transit travel over greater distances is going to take more time than driving from point a to b. If you don't like that particular downside, then move closer to where you work...we all have to make sacrifices depending on our personal lifestyle choices....we aren't going to ruin the city to cater to selfish and stupid people.









"we can see that Toronto has some amazing highways, but if they are jammed everynight, along with alternative routes, we clearly need to address that too."


And you think addressing the problem, is to encourage more of the behavior that causes it??? You're too weird.

And besides...just where is the money...and where is the space to start putting all these highways you seem to think we need???








"I dont see why if transit is effective in one city, another city could not benefit as well. "


Then I suggest you take a closer look at the suburbs, and tell me you can't grasp why they don't have as effective transit. It's not really all that difficult to recognize.






"Umm... Toronto isnt building subways either (you and I both know that Sheppard is inconsequential). "


Funny...I could have sworn Toronto has been building subways for 50 years now. And no...Sheppard is certainly not inconsequential at all...or does the billions of dollars in development that suddenly appeared with it just seem like a big coincidence to you???






"The reason why the GTA isnt seeing development of the transit system is that no municipality can shoulder the capital expense alone, and the upper levels of gov't are unwilling to work to address that."


How many times do you have to be reminded of this....better funding is lovely...but if you do not build areas that can reasonably sustain transit, then all the money in the world isn't going to help.







"just like there are lots of areas in Toronto that could use improved highway access, but they also cannot afford to build them."

What are you talking about????? The whole GTA has great access to highways...oh right...your the suburban lazy person, who thinks you have some birth-rite to have a highway on/off ramp with 5 minutes of where you live and anywhere you want to go. Dream on hairdo.








"What stats? 400m from a bus stop? I dont think there are many cities in the 905 that would fail to meet that simple measure."


Well, that's not true...but it really has less to do with how far a person has to walk...and more to do with the service they get when they get there...and that my dear, is the major difference between TTC and 905 transit.







"There are huge swaths of TORONTO unserved by mass transit (read: other than busses). If you live in the NW of the city or basically any part of Scarborough other than near the town centre, you are a LONG way away from any transit other than a bus. Thats no different from the situation in the suburbs hence my point that these areas will have very common concerns with the suburbs, despite being in Toronto and the TTC service area."


Dude...stop talking and do a little research...you are just making Me repeat myself....THERE IS A GIANT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SERVICE!!!!!

Besides having access to the subways via EVERY FUKING SURFACE ROUTE...comparing just bus service is night and day.









"The problem is not sovled by forcing people to make a dramatic change in their lifestyle, it is solved by working to include people in a system that works to balance their wants with a set of conditions that will enable those wants."


More gobble-dee-****. What shit are smoking anyway?? 

Get this through you thick fuking head....we just can't go around building more highways as more and more people want to live or work in unsustainable areas. It ain't going to happen....so instead of screaming for more highways, when they are just going to make a bad problem worse...you should start becomeing a part of the solution...not the problem.

"whaaaa whaaaa.....I moved out to my subdivision that was designed to make getting a loaf of bread a big drive in my SUV...please build me some more highways so we can accomodate all of us idiots."

It's been many politicians catering to these losers that have caused this problem...time to stop (and it looks like a few politicians are finally seeing the light). Too bad suburban losers like you are still out there....yes dude....it's YOU I blame the most...people just like you are to blame for this mess....I'm not being hard on you for no reason....you deserve it.








"Did you get distracted and read another post? 

I admit reading your bullshit...and actually wasting my time responding to it has been trying...but no...I'm am following you quite clearly.






"I said that cities grow outward in a fairly predictable progression. They spread with progressive degrees of density, radiating from more dense centre along transportation routes. "

That predictable progression you speak of has been of the sprawl variety post WW2...now, some areas are clueing in, and densifying. This is not the way it always was, and not the way it will be....so your "predictable progression" idea is just an insight into a few decades of bad planning. Unless you think bad planning is that predictable???...I would agree with you somewhat...I just don't think accepting it is such a great idea.











"Only an aritificially imposed barrier can hasten this urbanization to proceed with higher densities, but this strategy comes at the price of making rents and housing prices rise out of reach of many people."


All planning would fall under the same "artificial" catagory...whether it's sprawl or dense...it's all planned. And you have the odacity to suggest it's smart urban planning that comes with the price...and stupid suburban sprawl doesn't??? You see...it's comments like this that tells me you are just too wacky to even talk sensibly to. 

And if anything supports lower incomes...it's the kind of urban planning in Toronto...definetely not in the suburbs. As I suggested to you before, you might try and actually research some demographics a tiny bit (just a little bit...education is a wonderful thing...really...it will at least save you the trouble of making an ass of yourself).

After you do a little bit of this research, why not come back and explain to me why so many low-income people live in Toronto, and not the 905. Higher densities allow for cheaper housing because you build more housing per acre, despite higher land costs...it also allows for sustaining better transit, which allows people who cannot afford personal vehicles to get around to live there. It also provides more municipal revenue to provide better services to people who need it. And all this density allows for more intensive usage of services which benefit in terms of efficiency.










"This hardly addresses the point. Its true that planning trends are somewhat cyclical so certain periods will be attractive to some, other periods attractive to others, so you may inherently dislike post-war planning ideas, but my point was more that this is all done, and that we must still provide for the health of these area as is necessary."


It is the root of the whole point if bad planning is why we have this problem (which it is). And suggesting that the damage is done, and the only solution is to continue to not address it, is just another stupid idea. The "health of the area" does not lie in building more highways....it's fixing the problem at it's root.







"Yes there is no going back. I dont see any examples in Toronto of urban areas reverting to rural use. "

There you go talking nonsense again...nobody is interested in reverting back to rural...we are talking about good urban planning....as in reversing the effects of bad urban planning.







"I do see the development of increasing urbanity in some areas, but thats hardly going back. As I said above, trends are cyclical, but there really isnt any regression of the city."


Yes...we are going back to the sustainable urban planning of the past. It's not a "cyclical" thing at all....we had a period of post-war planning that was a distaster....everyone already acknowledges this...where have you been...driving your SUV to the big box stores all this time????







"I really hope that you are not seriously this close-minded. Toronto is not all good, the 905 is not all bad."


In terms of urban planning?....it sure is that black and white. Mississauga is now the same population of old Toronto. Do you feel there is a difference between the two?







"As a matter of fact, yes I have been there. Taking criticism in this regard from someone who previously commented that he never goes there is rather rich. "

There's nothing there for me...this is not to say I have not been there, or am aware of what is there...or aware of the planning process of the past, present or future. smartass. 






"How is Square One in spite of highways?"

Because the dense, mixed-use development going on there supports walkable areas and the kind of densities that promote transit use. People can actually walk from their homes to go shopping, go to a restaurant, see a movie, go to city hall, go to school, visit a park, go to work, go see a play, etc. Imagine that...Mississaugans able to do these things without going to their 3-car garage, starting up the ole SUV, and driving 8000 miles to do these things.


What do you think killed every American city?? Toronto had the good sense to recognize this, and stop it before it did too much damage. What city was actually building subways after the war?...none. Toronto kept it's streetcar network, while every other city was getting rid of theirs....keeping a healthy city is not done by accident...neither is ruining it.







"if I looked at two suburban communities across Steeles from each other, there is no difference other than a political boundary. You seem willing to suport the calls for the people south of steeles for transit, but the ones on the other side of the road made a choice that you argue excludes them from consideration."


As we have already detemined, you have no clue what you are talking about. Normally, I have no patience for people like you (as you can determine already no doubt)...but in the interest of diplomacy, I will give you a few hints as to why what you are saying is idiotic...

I have been travelling on and across Steeles for a very long time....I remember when the south side of Steeles was highrise apartment buildings and the north side were nothing but fields....and no, I'm not that old.

To suggest there is no built-form difference is just plain stupid...to suggest there is no demographic difference is also just plain stupid.

And any development on the north side of Steeles is because of it's proximity to what's south of it...nothing else....if this were not so, then they would still be fields...or mostly suburban housing that it already is.

As far transit and people north of Steeles...well think for a moment....of course they will use it...it's right there...how convenient for them. Who built it...Toronto or Vaughan? Who's efficient transit systems allows it to subsidize good service in areas that aren't so efficient? Who's taxes go to subsidize that ride that the person who lives on the north side of Steeles? The taxpayers of Toronto...that's who.








"These arguments arent new, people said the same thing about Metro, amalgamation of some of the cities in Metro, and then finally the Megacity."


But the creation of the new city of Toronto in 1953 was to address these problems, and a novel compromise to outright annexation. It was also at the hieght of bad city planning, whcih is why the new boroughs was patchy in terms of planning. 

Not that that is really what I'm refering to....do you really think the Ont government is comfortable with creating one municipality of 5 million people?

Even if it did, trying to bring the rest of the 905 up to Toronto standards would do nothing but thin the city's resources to the point it would ruin what we already have built. Better to have a healthy Toronto and a recovering 905, then a crappy GTA.







" Would it not be desirable if Mississauga or Vaughan did not so actively compete with Toronto to attract businesses? "


And what makes you think these areas would no longer be competeing??? Landlords in Mississauga are all of a sudden going to stop wanting business???? More stupid comments.










"As for the TTC, it would be much more effective in acheiving the goals that you have for it (to get people to use it rather than a car) if people could access it directly. By grouping all transit in the GTA together, much more can be accomplished by making sure that the entire area is served in the most effective way possible. Can you imagine the number of people that are discouraged from using transit with each additional transfer they must make between their home and their destination? A unified transit system is much better equipped to deal with this than a collection of disjointed systems."


I will say this one more fuking time.....get a clue on how and why the TTC can offer the services it does.

maybe I will try and talk you though this in a way a child could understand it.

If you were to make one transit system in the GTA, and then to give the same service that Toronto enjoys to the 905, would not be feasable. The losses incurred by having to subsidize better service in the 905 would require a dramatic decrease in service in Toronto. 

You see...Toronto can subsidize good service in areas that can't really support it, by having other areas that can make up for it....the 905 does not have this...it only has areas which can support weak service. And the TTC could not subsidize the entire 905....either the service on the whole system would be crappy...or the fares would have to be ridiculously high. Even more government money is not going to solve that problem...only better urban planning can....it's time we stopped throwing good money to bad.


Think about that while idling away in your drive-thru Tim Hortons line.






KGB


----------



## DrJoe

*Ontario(Canada) Freeways*

I already did a Toronto one, this one has abit more stuff from both in and out of the city.

400



























401























































402


















403









This stack looks like its pretty damn old.


















407 ETR

Electronic toller.





































410


















417



























427



















Don Valley Parkway


















QEW

To the US



























There are many others that I don't have any pics of.


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## IchO

Great work !!! Keep sendin'em


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## Zaqattaq

^ haha LionBlue.com


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## DaDvD

Amazing motorways!! Could you post a map of all them??


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## Guest

nice highways!


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## DrJoe

DaDvD said:


> Amazing motorways!! Could you post a map of all them??


I can't really find a good map for Ontario, but here is around Toronto.


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## DaDvD

Thank you DrJoe


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## Skybean

Well Done Dr. The most enjoyable thing with these expressways is the views you get from them as you speed past highrise clusters


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## goravens

better map posted below


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## sonysnob

If anyone is interested I run a website devoted to Ontario highways (coincidentally where some of Dr. Joe's pics originated). The site features pictures of both ontario highways and freeways. The URL is at http://www.onthighways.com. If interested, please have a look!

Cheers!


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## ssiguy2

That was great, thanks for the pics. There is one expressway your small map of Ont is missing. The freeway from Newcastle to Peterborough


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## hkskyline

*Traffic Cameras*
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/compass/


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## xzmattzx

DrJoe said:


> QEW
> 
> To the US


here's a couple pictures of the buffalo skyline that i took from the duty free shop that you can see in your picture. i took these pictures in early april, when i was in the buffalo area.


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## algonquin

ssiguy2 said:


> That was great, thanks for the pics. There is one expressway your small map of Ont is missing. The freeway from Newcastle to Peterborough


I think the map is of only 400 series highways, of which the Newcastle/Peterborough highway (115 I think) is not.

There's also the Hwy.8/7/85 mess through Kitchener Waterloo, which is fairly significant. Thanks SonySnob


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## Froster

I think the point about the 35/115 is fair though because DrJoe posted pics of the Don Valley Parkway which is also not a 400-series highway (though its extension, the 404 is). The DVP is a worthy inclusion though because it is one of the most scenic highways I have even been on, though I would only recommend driving it on the weekend because of the murderous traffic during weekdays.

Another picture that is worth posting it is the view from the gardiner when travelling east past the SkyDome. The new development on either side has created a neat urban canyon along the highway.


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## algonquin

Froster said:


> I think the point about the 35/115 is fair though because DrJoe posted pics of the Don Valley Parkway which is also not a 400-series highway (though its extension, the 404 is). The DVP is a worthy inclusion though because it is one of the most scenic highways I have even been on, though I would only recommend driving it on the weekend because of the murderous traffic during weekdays.


this is true.... but on the map, I just noticed that it doesn't include the DVP, or even the Gardiner Exp.


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## DetoX

>


As You can see in this photo, this freeway has not so good quality as it seems. In the left-bottom corner we can see some imperfections.


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## DrJoe

^ Are you f*cking serious?? All I see is some type of minor circle in the middle of the line that no one but you probably noticed. Its pretty clear that it just rained also.


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## goravens

yeah, that map is the 400 series map from wikipedia.. missing Conestoga, 174, DVP, 35/115, LINC etc. 

I found the expressway map










_The expressway network in Southern Ontario, including the 400-Series Highways (blue), Provincial expressways not part of the 400-Series system (orange), and Municipal expressways (purple)_ 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ontario_expressways


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## rt_0891

Too bad all the roads are damaged each year by salt crystals and snow


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## algonquin

is there anything Wikipedia can't do????


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## Nouvellecosse

DetoX said:


> As You can see in this photo, this freeway has not so good quality as it seems. In the left-bottom corner we can see some imperfections.


All highways slope downward to both sides which keeps them free of excess water reducing the risk of hydroplaning. The circles that are near the of the median are drainage holes that are present in every divided highway that doesn't have a drainage ditch in the centre.


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## ranny fash

LEAFS FANATIC said:


> How am I the cause of the problem jack ass?
> 
> My job requires driving to various clients in Toronto, Mississauga, Markham, Thornhill, Vaughn, etc., all day. Do you suggest that I take the TTC to all my appointments or pay inordinate amounts of money for a cab to drive me to my 8-10 meetings a day?
> 
> Yeah, yeah...I know, for tree-hugging hippies like you who know nothing about a hard-days' work, the TTC is great and so is cycling in frigid weather, but for real hard-working individuals like me I rely on an automobile....and for the millions of others who work every day to support your welfare payments through their taxes, they rely on cars too!
> 
> NUFF SAID.


youre a fucking idiot man


----------



## C|2azyCanuck

Canned Kitty said:


> We seriously need freeways that wide in L.A. Although I think the 5 gets to 16 lanes when it approaches Disneyland, but just a few miles north it bottlenecks into 6 lanes which creates a traffic nightmare.



The Orange Crush right? I remember being stuck in that nightmare before.


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## KGB

"When it comes to repave or rebuild all that. It 's going to cost A TON of money."


It's all constantly being rebuilt/repaved. 








"I don't want this sort of stuff in my city. Great photos, Great destruction. God help you."



Well, any large metropilis has to have a highway system. Toronto's is fairly well designed for the various purposes they muct perform. Mostly, they haven't ruined the old inner-city, which is a plus....the through/ring design works pretty well. They can get pretty crowded though...but I guess that's the problem with all of them.

With the exception of the 407 ETR, all roadways in Ontario have no tolls. Although I can see that changing.






KGB


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## rt_0891

unusualfire said:


> It seems That Toronto has just about one through highway. If the major cities in the states had just one highways going through the city. The highway would be just as big and maybe even more congested.


2 and a half actually. Highway 401, 407 ETR, Gardiner + QEW (terminates at DVP).

Given that America is even more car friendly than Canada, more congestion is expected.


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## Roch5220

^I think he means through the central/downtown city.


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## DarkLite

Canada looks like the USA's sister!!!


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## LtBk

Why do you retards oppose highways for? They do bring some advantages you know.


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## BHK25

Nice pictures.


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## sonysnob

Hillis said:


> 6 - 407/400, loooks like Markham, not sure on this one though.


This is actually looking at the 401/427/27 interchange. Eglinton Avenue (ill-fated Richview Expressway is the main thoroughfare running vertically through the picture



Hillis said:


> 17 - No clue


401/404/DVP interchange. 404/DVP running vertically through the picture.

Cheers


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## sonysnob

Hillis said:


> *401:*
> - The worlds longest 12-lane or more span of Highway (Mississauga to Brock Road, Pickering)


It probably is the longest 12-lane span of freeway in the world. But it only extends from Etobicoke to Pickering, not Mississauga




Hillis said:


> - The longest non-toll freeway under a single highway authority in North America.


At one point, yes, but this record has been surpassed at least once. Afterall, everything is bigger in Texas.




Hillis said:


> - 401/400 interchange is the busiest interchange in North America with a total of 26 lanes of combined traffic


This one is just funny ... the 400/401 interchange isn't even the busiest in Ontario, let along North America.

Wikipedia strikes again ...

Cheers!


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## PotatoGuy

Whoa, thats great, i love how there's trees and empty space everywhere. I thought toronto was a lot more dense, it's very sprawly, i like it though


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## Booyashako

sonysnob said:


> It probably is the longest 12-lane span of freeway in the world. But it only extends from Etobicoke to Pickering, not Mississauga



It does extend to Mississauga...12+ lanes beginning/ending at the 401/403 interchange.


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## sonysnob

Booyashako said:


> It does extend to Mississauga...12+ lanes beginning/ending at the 401/403 interchange.


The 401 from the 403/410 to the 427 interchange has a 16-18 lane configuration. The C-D ends at the 427 interchange, where the 401 has a 8 lane configuration. From then on the 401 is 10 lanes to the 409, and then east of the 409 the 401 once again has a 12+ lane C/D system. There is a 12-lane configuration in Mississauaga, but it is not connected (and therefore not continuous) with the mainline section in Toronto.

Cheers


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## Skybean

I wish they would update the crappy global air photos.


----------



## Brett

PotatoGuy said:


> Whoa, thats great, i love how there's trees and empty space everywhere. I thought toronto was a lot more dense, it's very sprawly, i like it though



I live in the far west of the Greater Toronto Area and one of my buddies moved to Dana Point for a few years (ill be there on the 20th of next month), and he said the exact same thing when he came home. Wow, space and Trees!


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## James Saito

Yeah, it looks sprawly and spacious, yet you see a lot of highrise apartments here and there... very interesting.


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## Averill Hecht

I thought I had some of the best Ontario Freeway pictures around, but you have me beat by a mile. I mean Kilometer!

Keep up the great work.

Averill


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## DrJoe

Well you can thank this site for the most part.

http://www.onthighways.com/index.html


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## Jaye101

Woooooooo!, DVP not in Scarborough Hillis.


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## Nic

Reminds me of any large American city. Looks nice, though.


----------



## centralized pandemonium

Fucking awesome :nuts:.


----------



## Cabman

LtBk said:


> Why do you retards oppose highways for? They do bring some advantages you know.



You are obviously suffering the effects of exhaust fumes if you can't work out why many people around the globe oppose these enormous roads.


----------



## The Boy David

sonysnob said:


> I am sure nobody would mind if you posted a few more pictures of the M-8. I am certainly intrigued


Well here are a selection of pics of the M8. Now before I begin, I must stress that I am NOT claiming that the M8 is either bigger or buiser than the 401. 

Driving the M8 is like going back in time. There are many roads, junctions and bridges that were built but never finished because of the death of the Clyde Shipyards and the British economy. It's a strange road, designed to be part of a Ring Road that was never completed, and so is very badly designed. But thats why its interesting.... There is so much variety - the 401 is huge, but its just a straight forward drive along it. As these pictures will show, there is always something going on while you are driving the M8


First off, a nice aerial of the M8 cutting through the city centre of Glasgow. The 10 lane Kingston Bridge is shown bottom left. As you can see the motorway enters a tunnel section at the top left hand side of the pic. Soon to be built are 2 skysrapers that will line the "canyon" effect that the M8 has created. You can clearly see the complexity of the junctions in this part of the motorway. Remember that this is downtown.











An aerial shot of part of the city centre. Look at the width of the M8 on the left hand side.











16 lanes. At one point there are actually 18 lanes of traffic, but it is only for about 400m, so it doesnt really count. At this point, 3 Motorways converge onto the M8






































The Kingston Bridge and M8 under construction











The Kingston Bridge when finished in 1960.











A night shot of the Kingston (sorry for the poor quality)











Complexity of junctions











A night shot of the "canyon" in the rain. This is the slimest part of the Motorway because of space restrictions. 2 extra lanes were built each side of the canyon bringing the total number of lanes back to 10.











Kingston Bridge approach to the city by 2008:











The tunnel section. The red office that is over the motorway used to be a bridge, but that section was never finished due to the economic crash at the time. Not to be put to waste, in 1990 the Ministry of Defence used it to build regional headquarters.











Part of the elevated section - a ghost ramp that leads to no-where.











More Ghost ramps. These can be seen all over Glasgow, a reminder of a different era of planning and economic misfortune.











Artistic 











So there you have it. What do you guys think? Needless to say, there are many more pictures of the widest parts, but once you have seen a few pictures, there is no real point in posting more


----------



## officedweller

The Dallas shot is interesting because you can see DART snaking through the cluster of office buildings in the forground.

The Glasgow shots give a good overview of where the docklands buildings (the high tech looking buildings) are located.


----------



## sonysnob

Those M-8 shots are very interesting. Thanks The Boy David. I particuarly like the ghost ramps, it is neat to see a highway with such an interesting history.

Cheers!


----------



## Martin Ferraro

Acceso Norte (Buenos Aires-Argentina)

















Autopista Gral Paz


----------



## canada_habs2004

another 401 pic showing downtown Toronto in distance


----------



## canada_habs2004

great prairie said:


>


this picture is funny just because of that mini skyline in the distance.
a lot of smaller cities would kill for a skyline just like that one, but that skyline is just one of the hundreds of Toronto building clusters that no one has even heard of....


----------



## spotila

uh.. that's not toronto, that's dallas


----------



## Cee_em_bee

LOL, In Sydney theres 3 satellite CBD's with more impressive Skylines then the one above.


----------



## great prairie

suburban sydney :|


----------



## redstone

Highway interchange in Singapore.

Planters on the sides of the highway flyover to beautify it.


----------



## adidas

Toronto 401 hgwy


----------



## cncity

Cee_em_bee said:


> LOL, In Sydney theres 3 satellite CBD's with more impressive Skylines then the one above.


show us some pics of the 3 CBD'S in sydney.


----------



## zimna8080

canada_habs2004 said:


> this picture is funny just because of that mini skyline in the distance.
> a lot of smaller cities would kill for a skyline just like that one, but that skyline is just one of the hundreds of Toronto building clusters that no one has even heard of....


What a tacky thing to say. 

That photo is of Central Expressway in Dallas. The original freeway was built in the 1950s and ripped out and redone during the 1990s. It's a GREAT urban drive and is below grade with all kinds of architectural flourishes and most freeways around the world can only dream of. The sunken canyon freeway winds between office towers, has a subway/rail system on one side, and goes through some of the funkiest most intersesting neighborhoods in the region. Photos just cannot do this freeway justice. 

I've been on Central in Dallas and the 401 (and all of the Toronto area fwys) and Central is much more interesting. Topping off the northern end of Central is a 5 level freeway stack interchange that is a mind boggling 18 stories tall called the "High Five" - the 401 is just like a field. It's not very urban. 

It's not a short road, if you stay on Central Expressway (US 75) from Dallas and never get off of it, you will end up in Winnipeg. 

(http://web8.3essentials.com/rasaya.com/bork/cntl.jpg) - here is an image, my hotlinking is turned off so I cant post it.


----------



## CrazyCanuck

redstone said:


> Planters on the sides of the highway flyover to beautify it.


That would be a waste in T.O, as everything is dead almost half of the year, and it would be a waste of money to replace them every year.


----------



## great prairie

More pictures of "suburban sydney"


----------



## KIWIKAAS

^^^
I think cee em bee wasnt thinking all too clearly or had lost his perception of distance when he made his post. I think he will realise his error.

Nice pics btw.


----------



## zimna8080

Cee_em_bee said:


> LOL, In Sydney theres 3 satellite CBD's with more impressive Skylines then the one above.


Which ones? I dont remember Parramatta or North Sydney being that impressive, really. (the city centre was awesome, though)


----------



## officedweller

Came across this elegant interchange from Montreal (St. Laurent) - not a freeway to freeway interchange (the common merge on merge off lane on the upper arterial road would probably prevent use of the same configuration for a freeway to freeway interchange), but quite well done. You can even make an easy U-turn from the freeway:


----------



## Cee_em_bee

great prairie said:


> More pictures of "suburban sydney"



Yes, those pictures are more impressive then the initial one posted. Very nice.


----------



## Accura4Matalan

Errr... is that actually Sydney?? :? It doesnt look like it.


----------



## Bartolo

Its either Houstan or Dalles


----------



## fredcalif

It is Dallas


----------



## skyscraper17

no other cities can compare Highway 401 (MC Freeway)


----------



## Martin Ferraro

Another pic of Acceso Norte


----------



## KGB

"I've been on Central in Dallas and the 401 (and all of the Toronto area fwys) and Central is much more interesting. the 401 is just like a field. It's not very urban."


Not sure what constitutes "interesting" in your mind???

As for the 401 not being "urban"...well, when it was origionally designed, it was put north of the city (we tend not to ruin our cities by running freeways all through the inner city). But travelling on it through the actual city, considering the amount of built form around it (far more than Dallas), I don't know how you could make that comment...perhaps you were travelling on it out in the countryside??

For an "urban" freeway experience, it's hard to beat the Gardiner snaking right through downtown on it's elevated perch....you can almost literally reach out and touch the buildings. It might be a blight on the downtown, but for sheer skyscraper gazing while driving...it's pretty impressive.

For "pretty", it's hard to beat the DVP.






KGB


----------



## great prairie

fuckin boosters ^^



KGB said:


> But travelling on it through the actual city, *considering the amount of built form around it (far more than Dallas),* I don't know how you could make that comment...perhaps you were travelling on it out in the countryside??



:|


----------



## DrJoe

^ Have you driven the 401?? It is significantly lined by highrises for much of its root through Toronto.


----------



## KGB

"fuckin boosters"


Boosting what?????? I'm not a big fan of highways.

Just offering some evidence contrary to someone's comment.





KGB


----------



## GVNY

I believe this photograph qualifies as mindblowing:


----------



## jd_bond

GVNY said:


> I believe this photograph qualifies as mindblowing:



Hate it...


----------



## sportsnet

i love 401


----------



## DanS10

mind blowing for all the wrong reasons. cant believe people getting in to this "my freeways bigger than yours" debate


----------



## Avian001

DanS10 said:


> mind blowing for all the wrong reasons. cant believe people getting in to this "my freeways bigger than yours" debate


Yes, I agree. I think it would actually be rather embarassing for people to see the incredible crap that substitutes for "urbanism" or "world-class-city" or whatever the hell the label-of-the-moment is.

All of these pictures portray a mind-set that is damaging to the idea of a livable city. Yes, gang, let's make bigger, more dense freeways that will even further drain the lifeblood of a modern metropolis.

Let's make OUR infrastructure the best damned killer of a civilized city than any other!


----------



## DrJoe

The 401 has little of any effect on downtown Toronto, except for some commuters.


----------



## LtBk

Freeways are going to be build, no matter what.


----------



## Skybean

TORONTO - 401








That's at least 14 lanes... plus it branches off to the right.
There is a subway line close to those highrises.


----------



## sonysnob

This picture seemed appropriate for this forum.

Its of the Gardiner (Former QEW) from Islinton Avenue in Etobicoke.


----------



## skokster123

*90/94 Northeast Illinois (Chicago)*

90/94 Dan Ryan & Kennedy Expressway

































Kennedy Expressway (90/94) I-55 to Edens/Kennedy Jct
























The Virgin Mary at the Fullerton Exit


----------



## DrJoe

skokster123 said:


> 90/94 Dan Ryan & Kennedy Expressway


lol, what a mess. I imagine they regret making all those ramps.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

That section of the Dan Ryan is a classic. Definitely belongs on the mind blowing hall of fame.


----------



## Andrew

LtBk said:


> Freeways are going to be build, no matter what.


Maybe in North America they are because there the car is king but other places have a chance to develop their transport infrastructure in a different way, a more sustainable way. Of course freeways are still going to be built for the time being but always, I don't think so. Eventually that will become impossible.


----------



## Gamble

The 401 is north america busiest freeway(500 000+ commuters daily) & world largest (16 to 20) lanes + Yonge street crossing it, is the longest street in the world (1,896 kilometres = 1,178 milles)!!!!


----------



## Gamble

Toronto, GTA, Ontario, Canada, God bless.


----------



## Gamble

It's all love for Toronto!!


----------



## Jaye101




----------



## Jaye101

The Boy David said:


> Almost the entire of the UK uses box-beam or wire barriers for it's Motorways. There is no need for concrete guards - they cost more and are dangerous to crash into. I honestly don't know why everyone else uses them.


Well, if you crash into the guard rail that's your problem. But if you crash into those old metal shits, your ganna be a hundred oncomming car's problems.


----------



## Jaye101

Gamble said:


> Younge street


People spelling Eglinton, EGLINGTON!!! People spelling Yonge, YOUNGE!!!

They should have a killing ceremony at city hall. :jk:


----------



## DrJoe

*Toronto Freeway Videos*

Some freeway videos through Toronto. You will notice with alot of these the sheer amount of construction needed to keep them running, the construction is obviously marked by orange pylons/signs. Large freeways, heavy traffic, harsh climate can do an absolute number these.

Anyway, here you go. Remember to put in fullscreen also, even though it might be abit more blurry. Oh yeah, techno lovers will enjoy also, lol.

Video 1

Video 2

Video 3 

Video 4 


Non Highways

Queen Street, through Toronto
Video 5 

Vic Avenue
Video 6


----------



## staff

Nice videos, but please don't call that crappy music techno.


----------



## Gamble

Everytime I come to Toronto, I like the way the 401 looks, 160 on the dash, i'm on the expressway. Vrooooum!!!!


----------



## Jaye101

^^ That post is hilarious.


----------



## crazyjoeda

Looks like a lot of pot holes in some places.


----------



## DrJoe

Its actually not that bad except the construction spots. These are probably 5 years old also.


----------



## sbarn

Gamble said:


> world largest (16 to 20) lanes


I only count 14 lanes in the photo... I don't think I've ever seen a picture of the 20 lane section of 401.


----------



## DrJoe

^ if you noticed, the lanes merge off making it only 14 lanes, but then right after more lanes merge on. So it is 14 lanes only for that one little section you counted and then right back to 16.

It reaches 20 lanes here towards the bottom, don't know how continuous it is though.


----------



## sbarn

It seems common to count collector ramps as actual lanes on the 401 freeway... which I don't really agree with but whatever. In that case it would seem that the Bay Bridge toll plaza may one of the widest roadways in the world... despite its short distance:









^^ This picture is only traffic in one direction.


----------



## DrJoe

^ I dont see where counting the on/off ramps as lanes has happened. In that picture I showed you can't tell where the ramps start or end. Sometimes when the ramp merges with the highway it just keeps going along as a new lane.


----------



## Bertez

DrJoe, I think that stretch of the 401 covers from the 410 to the 427....


----------



## Accura4Matalan

Cool vids


----------



## Nouvellecosse

The videos are nice, but I'd have liked them more if they had been in real time, and had the real life sounds instead of the "music".

Btw Dr.Joe, how did you find out about these videos? Are you actually into biking?


----------



## DrJoe

Nah, im not into bikes. Just kind of stumbled upon them and so on.


----------



## M. Brown

Uhh are there any new pics of Toronto freeways?


----------



## ۩SkyScraper۩

>


 :eek2: cool


----------



## Andrew

Do people seriously think that this kind of thing is good? This is apocolyptic - literally. More of this is one of the worst visions of the future I could envisage. Look at the land area this takes up, think of the fumes going into the atmosphere and into drivers lungs and think of the ammount of fossil fuels that are being wasted by those hundreds of cars just sitting there. It's a doomsday scenario! No wonder Bush won't sign up to Kyoto.


----------



## sonysnob

A few new pictures for those interested

Hwy 401:







Hwy 403:



Hwy 404:



Hwy 427:


More Images Available at OntHighways.com

Thanks to Image Shack for Hosting the Images


----------



## IshikawajimaHarima

That highway is for beginners to do car racing.


----------



## Burnout 3

The 401 expressway has a reputation as being the most congested freeway/Expressway in canada. it also has a reputation as being the widest in the Toronto Region.


----------



## JARdan

My favourite part of the 401:








Heading eastbound as you pass under the 410/403. The slope is slightly downhill, and then the collectors coming from the 410 merge to your right. Nothing but 5 lanes of open traffic. It's a drag strip! This photo is taken from the bottom of the "hill" well beyond the 410.


----------



## BMXican

no wonder the freeways in toronto are so wide (and impressive) - for a city that size toronto doesn't have many freeways - hence the existing ones have to be wider:










I mean there is just one main east-west freeway (401) - the gardiner expressway can't hardly be compared to the 401...


----------



## addisonwesley

Yup, two highways leading downtown were scrapped because of local residents. Good for them too, would have cut up the region into small little blocks.


----------



## Crocodine

^^ I agree with you, mate.


----------



## zerokarma

sonysnob said:


> A few new pictures for those interested
> 
> Hwy 427:


The center median has now been upgraded and has concrete barriors accross the middle just like the other 400 series hiways. They are slowing upgrading the rest of the 427 between the QEW and 401.

I just wish they would expand and extend the 427 further north past HWY 7. There needs to be more lanes north of the 401 as well. This stretch of Highway keeps getting too jammed all the way back down to the airport on most days. That's really bad.


----------



## PotatoGuy

BMXican said:


> no wonder the freeways in toronto are so wide (and impressive) - for a city that size toronto doesn't have many freeways - hence the existing ones have to be wider:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean there is just one main east-west freeway (401) - the gardiner expressway can't hardly be compared to the 401...


hehe, thats true


----------



## KingWilson

CrazyCanuck said:


> Its funny how people say it's there dreams to drive these huge highways, when i can drive the 401 everyday. The massive thing splits my town right down the middle, thats how we define North and south ajax. I guess since i've grown up with it I just take it for granted.


I grew up in South Pickering (West Shore). I consider the highway a giant river.


----------



## Jaye101

^^ Y? it's 18 lanes at Morningside - Neilson in Scarborough, we just walk accross the bridge.


----------



## kapone

i travel frequently to the US west coast, both Socal and Norcal and they have some busy highways Not as big as 401, but they are long. You can easily compare toronto to those places such as LA and San francisco. 

Toronto is getting worse every year in terms of congestion from vehicles. It's disgusting seeing so many cars all over the place, haha, i hate driving in toronto. 
but i still love my city hahaha


----------



## Skybean

*~16 lanes*
*401*









At Scarborough City Centre-- Toronto's 3rd Core (Ellipse Towers to the right)




































*404*


----------



## Bertez

I love night pics


----------



## sonysnob

Nice pictures, the motion blurr turned out quite nicely for them.

I am guessing those pictures were taken fairly recently, judging by the near completion of the future HOV lane on the 404.

Cheers.


----------



## Aquarius

Interesting thread,


The 407TR belongs to a spanish company.

From the beginnings, Cintra has been awarded the management of 17 toll highways (1,700 km.) in Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Chile, Canada and USA (Chicago).

The Bilbao-Behobia (Spain, 1968) and the 407 ETR (Canada, 1999) highways are milestones in the development of Cintra's business activities. The former was the first highway that was tendered for with private financing and management in Spain. Additionally, it was the first concession agreement whose term expired in 2003 after thirty-five years of management and investment. For its part, the 407 ETR Toronto beltway signified the largest private investment effort ever in a highway, amounting to 2,476 million euros. It also posed the challenge of developing and operating the first ever totally electronic "free flow" toll system in the world.











Date opened to traffic:
May 1999

Termination date:
2098

Length:
108 Km
Toll system:
Explicit and toll free.

Payment methods:
Electronic detection devices
(transponders) or license
plate identification.


Road characteristics:

This is an urban highway with 2+2 to 4+4 lanes, depending on the section. It has39 junctions and 190 lateral entry and exit lanes, all of which are equipped with electronic vehicle detection devices. Six of the junctions are rapid links to other motorways. Along its 108 km length, there are 137 overpasses and 80 underpasses.


----------



## Castle_Bravo

The highways (specialy 401) near Toronto, are amazing with more than 14 lanes.


----------



## sonysnob

Smelser said:


> I am amazed that a member of the public can speak authoritatively about the plans of the provincial government in the matter of roads. First, it implies that the government has an actual and firm long term plan that's not going to change, and secondly, that they share that with the public. I don't know about Ontario, maybe things are different there, ... certainly their existing road system is far more advanced than in BC. But here no one can say really what the BC Govt's plans are for highways since the government itself hasn't a clue, except of course for whatever project they are working on at the moment, and usually even those are flexible to some degree depending on political feedback.


Governments almost always have a long term plan for highways. Typically they plan for 30 to 40 years in the future, as freeway overpasses last quite a long time, and governments are never to eager to replace an overpass without it reaching its full lifespan. I would be quite surprised if BC is actually as last minute as you say when it comes to highway planning. BC's gateway project for instance includes transportation planning for the next 25-30 years. Finally, while planning studies might not always be the most readily available documents, they are available to the public (we do pay for them after all), so long as you find the right people to talk to.

Cheers.


----------



## KGB

"I really don't see why everyone likes these highways so much... I mean, the only good thing about the 401 are views through North York (which are underrepresented by photos here). The DVP and Gardiner on the other hand are great."



Actually, the good thing about the 401 (and it's primary function) is to funnel goods and people to and from north america, along the Quebec-Windsor corridor....which requires massive amounts of both. It's all the local commuting that makes it a mess.

The DVP and Gardiner are just for moving people in and around downtown, without actually going through it.







KGB


----------



## monkeyronin

KGB said:


> Actually, the good thing about the 401 (and it's primary function) is to funnel goods and people to and from north america, along the Quebec-Windsor corridor....which requires massive amounts of both. It's all the local commuting that makes it a mess.


Well yeah, thats obvious enough, I meant that more in the visual sense :yes:


----------



## monkeyronin

While we're on the subect of highways, here's some video taken on the DVP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odn4yTdcHaQ&mode=related&search=


----------



## JulioPR

Those highways look a lot like highways in the metropolitan area of Puerto Rico


----------



## greek_eagle

great prairie said:


> maybe toronto should widen other freeways.....



Personally, I think that Toronto should widen their freeways[especially the 401; more lanes are drastically needed ] in order to accomodate their vehicle usage! :runaway:


----------



## Æsahættr

Andrew said:


> Do people seriously think that this kind of thing is good? This is apocolyptic - literally. More of this is one of the worst visions of the future I could envisage. Look at the land area this takes up, think of the fumes going into the atmosphere and into drivers lungs and think of the ammount of fossil fuels that are being wasted by those hundreds of cars just sitting there. It's a doomsday scenario! No wonder Bush won't sign up to Kyoto.


Well, toll booths are good to encourage less driving.
That thing costs $5 every time you pass through!


----------



## jacobboyer

californias cars are much cleaner than other cars. they have a state law that majkes them cleaner


----------



## samsonyuen

The 401's bad, but there aren't that many like that in the city. It's better in most other North American cities.


----------



## Skybean

401 at Don Mills


----------



## eurogator

great prairie said:


> More pictures of "suburban sydney"


dude, i dont know why, but i love US-75 through Dallas. For some reason, it's probably one of my favorite, if not the favorite freeways I've driven on, haha.


----------



## eurogator

lotrfan55345 said:


> Well, toll booths are good to encourage less driving.
> That thing costs $5 every time you pass through!


....apparently doesnt encourage it too much, hehe


----------



## SydneyDude

The Light Horse Interchange on the outskirts of Sydney is where the M7 crosses with the M4.

uncompleted arial:




































Warringah Freeway:
















Note the entrance to the Sydney Harbour Tunnel in the middle.


----------



## Kngkyle

sbarn said:


> This is more mindblowing than anything I've seen here...


Anyone know where this pic was taken?
As someone else said it was obviously during a hurricane evacuation, they almost always make the highways 1 way when that happens. My guess is near Miami?


----------



## kashyap3

all these highways....and still the gridlock
what happened to tearing down the gardiner?
how would they replace such an arterial expressway


----------



## bay_area

Kngkyle said:


> Anyone know where this pic was taken?
> As someone else said it was obviously during a hurricane evacuation, they almost always make the highways 1 way when that happens. My guess is near Miami?


Houston before Hurricane Rita



> Do people seriously think that this kind of thing is good?


He didnt say it was good-just that it _is_.


----------



## Toronto06

lol @ comparing highways

i think the 401 is the best highway because it serves the purpose of a highway the best, TO GO TO WORK OR HOME! people are saying its like driving through a feild and i read somewhere that somebody thought we made it big to show off.......*shakes head* 

since when did a highway become something of amusement? do you use a highway to drive in a relatively straight lane to work and back or to see a nice view of some planted forest? or even to go through a rollercoaster ride of twists and turns? come on people....


----------



## kashyap3

the 401 is North America's Busiest Highway
and you are only looking at its mississauga segment
it goes through most/all of Canada's largest and most important cities/towns
hence its large volume

[WEST] Detroit, USA 
- Windsor 
- London 
- Waterloo/Kitchener 
- Mississauga 
- Toronto 
- Trenton 
- Kingston 
- 416 To Ottawa [Capital Territory] 
- ONtario/Quebec Provincial boundary [Name Changes to Autoroute 20 because Quebec is mainly french speaking]
-Montreal
-Quebec City
-----------
consult a road map for further cities that lie on the Macdonald-Cartier Freeway

well since I use it quite frequently, I frankly dont think its mind-blowing..
but it is the busiest in NA


----------



## Timstam001

PotatoGuy said:


> haha yeah, i think the canadians made it the only freeway going in that direction so that they could have something to rant about, stupid idea really, why dont they just make more freeways going in that direction. everyone knows that when freeways become wide after a certain point each lane added makes things slower rather than faster.



This is just the stupidest comment ever. If you have a little knowledge about Canada you would realise there is no practical nor economical use to build more freeways in that direction. Toronto happens to be an enormous city, and thus needs to cope with many people entering the city. Since the whole western world is driving cars big cities need big freeways. Furthermore, Canada is empty. It's endless and empty, so why build roads? For the local fauna to graze on? You don't build freeways for just a few people. Canada is a huge country but only has a pop of somewhere over 30 million if I'm not mistaking, so theres no need for more asphalt. It's such a simple thing to conclude. 


Answer to your question: Canadians don't build more freeways in that direction because there's almost nobody to drive on them.


P.S: Extra lanes don't make freeways slower, it's on- and off-ramps that do.


----------



## samsonyuen

Living next to the Gardiner Expressway, you really notice how much the situation needs to be changed. It's always clogged!


----------



## LordMandeep

The 401 is so busy now, that there are sometimes traffic jams from volume on sunday. Also very busy throughout Saturday and at night.

the 401 is always busy, and it should be. Its the highway that moves most of Ontario really.


> The fact that the suburbs have more freeway than Toronto itself always bothers me. Downtown gets two 6-lane freeways (basically one through freeway), while places like York region have three or more 6-12 lane freeways without rapid transit (VIVA doesn't really count, yet).


You see my American Friends, this is where Canadian cities differ...Toronto doesn't have such strong inner city neighbourhoods for no reason, do you think??


----------



## FK

QEW





































The Gardiner




































Don Valley Parkway


----------



## Marcanadian

Nice photos everyone. I was waiting for someone to post the Gardiner.


----------



## FK

Glad to share them !


----------



## UndergrounDLondon

I've been in Toronto with my truck last week... always amazed with all these huge expressways. They're clean, wide, safe.... nothing to compare with all the shitty roads we have in Quebec


----------



## Breakwood

I just noticed there are not any pictures of the 416.


----------



## SYDNEYAHOLIC

OMG


----------



## Dario

Amazing all this highways


----------



## TheCat

UndergrounDLondon said:


> I've been in Toronto with my truck last week... always amazed with all these huge expressways. They're clean, wide, safe.... nothing to compare with all the shitty roads we have in Quebec


I will have to agree. I haven't been on many roads in Quebec, but on my drive
to Montreal, once the 401 becomes the A20 conditions deteriorate rather quickly,
and there is a noticeable decrease in road quality.

I find your horizontal traffic lights cool, however


----------



## Jaye101

^^ Yeah with those two red light squares. But why are they only formatted that way in certain areas?


----------



## sonysnob

Some new Highway 401 photos:








pics from OntHighways.com


----------



## algonquin

UndergrounDLondon said:


> I've been in Toronto with my truck last week... always amazed with all these huge expressways. They're clean, wide, safe.... nothing to compare with all the shitty roads we have in Quebec


I agree. All due respect to Quebec, but I have to say the freeways there are usually downright horrible. I was shocked when driving west along Autoroute 20 to QUebec City, to find a level train crossing just a few miles east of Montreal. That's just crazy.


----------



## TheCat

I once posted pictures of my drive from Montreal to Toronto, but I cannot find the thread. If I find it I'll post a link.
Nonetheless, while the pavement quality in Quebec sucks and I found their acceleration lanes somewhat shorter than on the 400-series highways, the
huge tunnels under their downtown core are very impressive.

And great pictures of Toronto highways btw


----------



## hkskyline

Is it because of the salt damage from their colder and icier winters?


----------



## sonysnob

I think most of Quebec's poor road conditions come from a general lack of investment. The province built a huge network during the 60s and 70s and hasn't done anything with it since then. Most of the overpasses on the routes have never been rehabbed, and much of their network has yet to be reconstructed since that time.

For some Quebec Highway pictures visit:
www.CanHighways.com/PQ/


----------



## LordMandeep

same here but in recent years they put some significant money down.


----------



## algonquin

hkskyline said:


> Is it because of the salt damage from their colder and icier winters?


Though that may be a factor, it's not really the issue. It's the design standards... you see some f*#ked up things on those roads. Plus those highways should have been upgraded decades ago.


----------



## officedweller

*Ice fears keep Toronto's Gardiner shut*

*Ice fears keep Gardiner shut*
TheStar.com - News - Ice fears keep Gardiner shut 

March 05, 2007 

Linda Nguyen
Curtis Rush
Staff Reporters

The Gardiner Expressway is expected to remain closed between Yonge St. and Spadina Ave. streets during the afternoon rush hour because of worries about ice falling from the CN Tower.

Police closed the Expressway in both directions during this morning's rush hour after baseball-sized chunks of ice began falling. With winds expected to pick up later today, officials worried about injury and damage to passing cars. 

The roadway will stay closed as long as falling ice poses a danger to traffic, said city transportation spokesperson Gary Welsh. 

King St. was also shut downtown from Yonge St. to Bay St. due to ice falling from office buildings, and all TTC vehicles have been re-routed around the area, police said. 

The ice collected on buildings during last Thursday’s snow and ice storm, which knocked out power to thousands of homes in the city.

Experts say this is the first time since 1976 — when the CN Tower was finished — that the structure has seen such an ice buildup. 

The cause was a rare confluence of weather factors beginning with the March 1 storm. The accumulations of wet snow and freezing rain (about 6 centimetres of snow and another 13 millimetres of rain) got the ball rolling.

The quick change in temperature then caused a "flash freeze" and the winds, gusting up to 70 km/h, spread the moisture, creating a larger mass of ice, according to David Phillips, Environment Canada's senior climatologist.

A flash freeze happens when a cold front moves in quickly after wet snow or rain and in a matter of two hours or so causes the snow and rain to freeze.

The ice formations are larger under these conditions because the rapid freeze traps all the moisture. Normally, in a longer freeze, some moisture is allowed to evaporate or escape, and the freeze-over doesn't produce such larger formations of ice.

Swirling winds then tore chunks of ice off high buildings.

One massive piece of ice hanging from the CN Tower has police particularly concerned, Welsh said. 

"I’ve heard it is very big – around 50 metres – and there’s concern that it can come down on the Gardiner,” he said. 

All lanes and on-ramps of the Gardiner remain closed in both directions, forcing motorists to find alternate travel routes. Many drivers used Lakeshore Ave., and the increased volume brought traffic there to a virtual standstill between Jarvis and Parliament streets. 

The area around the CN Tower and Rogers Centre has also been closed to all vehicles and pedestrians, Welsh said. 

Environment Canada has issued a wind and wind-chill warning for today, with wind speeds expected to gust up to 90 km/hr and a wind chill of –35C.


----------



## Zaki

damn, any one have a picture of the 50m ice?


----------



## elkram

^^ You're right, shame IS beyond pity . . .

They've shut half its lanes, closed one of the two virtually-preceding on-ramps, and detour heavy trucks at the underground interchange with the Bonaventure expressway.

An article over the weekend showed some other detriorated expressway components around the Island. The 40-year-old Hochelaga overpass just north of the the northern mouth to the under-river L-H tunnel has just been demolished, where its replacement ought to be ready by late Fall. For months now, another 40-year-old overpass serving Angrignon Blvd over Hwy 20 has supposed to have been razed coz it's too flimsy.

Patching up our expressways has been going on for well over 20 years.

*We'd better establish solid trans-island electric train service if the city's to viably survive . . .*

Errrr, this story's bound to be continued . . .


----------



## Xelebes

*Northern Albertan Highways*

A thread devoted to all construction dealing with roads in Northern Alberta (Red Deer and north, for sake of reference.)

Some images have been provided by feepa off of SSP.

Current list of constructions:

- Twinning of Highway 63

This highway is being twinned to increase capacity and safety. It is a heavily used highway by massive trucks used to carry even more massive cokers (usually 80 metres long, 15 metres wide and weigh 5,000 tons.) The twinning is important because these trucks can effectively cut off the Oil Sands projects from any other major supply centre (Edmonton, Lloydminster, Grande Prairie). Fort McMurray (pop. roughly 120 000 people, StatsCan underestimates the size of the city because of the people living in the camps and the people camping in provincial parks - because they can't find homes and the sort) has only one highway going into town - the highway heading north heads directly into the oil sands projects.

I should also note that Highway 63 is right now also being converted into a freeway through the town - that's the only road that connects the 3 or 4 parts of the town. City can't grow much further outwards as there is no more land they can buy from the Province.

- Anthony Henday Drive (Ring Road)

The first quarter has been built in Edmonton. This ring road is being built such that trucks can bypass the failed inner-ring project from a generation ago (170th Street, Whitemud Drive, Yellowhead Trail, 75th Street). This project will hopefully be an actual ring road with no lights and the sort.

The first successful quarter built was the southwest quarter, from Queen Elizabeth II Highway to Yellowhead Trail. This section provides much needed capacity for new trucking - and the ability to bypass the congested Whitemud Freeway.










- Yellowhead Trail/Highway

Currently putting interchanges at the remaining intersections with lights. The city has complained about this for the last 50 years or so - but now it's finally being done. I think there is only 3 or 4 interchanges left to build.

-Queen Elizabeth II Highway

Currently an interchange is starting construction at 23rd Avenue. There is a tremendous amount of congestion at this chokepoint, especially since South Edmonton Common (power centre, yay!) was built.


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## Xelebes

Bidding for the 23rd Ave interchange opened today. 187 million dollars is the leading bid - there was another bid at 209 million.



Right now they are currently moving all the pipelines under there - there is lots of oil pipes there.


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## Xelebes

I think I should include this one too.

A new freeway for Nisku, just south of Edmonton in Leduc County, is being proposed.

http://www.infratrans.gov.ab.ca/INFTRA_Content/docType182/Production/QEII-BOARD-1.pdf


Looks like it may take 25 years for this to be realised though.


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## Xelebes

With that, we have the continuation of that little freeway. It the provincially-proposed outer-ring road.

http://www.altaroads.ca/ERRRCS-Recommendation.pdf


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## hkskyline

*[CDN] Canadian Highways*

The Trans-Canada Highway is the world's longest national road. It extends east-west across Canada between Victoria, British Columbia and St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador, passing through all ten Canadian provinces and linking Canada's major cities. Car ferries link both Newfoundland and Vancouver Island to the mainland.

Construction of the Trans-Canada Highway began in 1950 under the authority of the Trans-Canada Highway Act. This act authorized the Government of Canada and provincial governments to build a national highway on a cost-shared basis. Together, they funded construction of the highway outside and inside of Canada's national parks.

In 1962 Prime Minister John Diefenbaker officially opened the Trans-Canada Highway, although construction continued until 1971. It has since seen many upgrades, such as twinning busy sections and adding lanes. Since 1971, some provinces have designated additional road links as part of the Trans-Canada Highway, even though they were not built under the Trans-Canada Highway Act.

Today's Trans-Canada Highway is not a single route. It consists of many routes that cross Canada. Two run from Nova Scotia to New Brunswick, one of which travels to Prince Edward Island by way of the Confederation Bridge. There are also two routes that begin west of Montreal and several routes through Ontario. Travelling west, the main Trans-Canada Highway (Highway 1) passes through Winnipeg, Regina, Calgary and Banff. It then takes the highly scenic Kicking Horse Pass through the Canadian Rockies and continues through Kamloops to Vancouver Island, British Columbia.

In 1970, a northern route called Yellowhead Highway (Highway 16) was officially opened across Western Canada. Highway 16 splits from the main Trans-Canada Highway just west of Winnipeg at Portage La Prairie and then passes through Saskatoon, Edmonton, Hinton and Jasper. It takes the Yellowhead Pass through the Rocky Mountains all the way to the town of Tête Jaune Cache, British Columbia. The highway continues west to Prince George, and reaches the Pacific Ocean at Prince Rupert.

Today, most highway and road construction is a provincial responsibility. Provinces decide on the design, construction, safety standards and financing of highways under their jurisdiction. The Government of Canada, however, is solely responsible for the maintenance and repair of the Trans-Canada Highway inside national parks

Transport Canada recognizes the value of these routes to our nation's economy and is helping the provinces finance the upgrades needed in this age of increasing traffic volumes. In fact, the Government of Canada has committed over $808 million in funding to improve segments of the Trans-Canada Highway since 2001.

Why? Because the efficient transport of people and goods plays a vital role in the health of our nation's economy. The ongoing repair and maintenance of the Trans-Canada Highway improves safety and accessibility, reduces accidents, decreases travel time, increases trade opportunities, attracts tourism and creates jobs.

Source : http://www.tc.gc.ca/mediaroom/backgrounders/b04-R007e.htm

At 7,821 kilometres, it stretches from Victoria, B.C., to St. John's, Nfld., and through every province in between. Constructed over some of the world's most treacherous terrain, it took 20 years and $1 billion to complete.

Source : CBC


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## Xelebes

Publsihed today in the Alberta Infrastructure website.

Work starts on the twinning of Highway 63

Fort McMurray... Construction has begun on twinning the first section of Highway 63 south of Fort McMurray from Highway 69 to south of Highway 881. This is the first section of the 240-kilometre twinning project to begin between Fort McMurray and the junction of Highway 55 near Grassland.

"This is the first leg of an immense 240-kilometre twinning project that will increase safety for motorists and improve access to the oilsands," said Luke Ouellette, Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation. "This section of road has traffic volumes almost double the rest of the highway and is our top priority for twinning."

Minister Ouellette was joined by Guy Boutilier, Minister of International, Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Relations and MLA for Fort McMurray-Wood Buffalo to officially mark the start of construction by climbing onto construction equipment on the future northbound lanes of Highway 63. Twinning of the first section of highway will cost $53 million and is scheduled to be completed and open to traffic by fall 2008.

"Residents of Fort McMurray have waited for this day with great anticipation," said Boutilier. "As a long-time supporter of twinning Highway 63, I'm pleased construction is underway. The twinned highway will improve safety for motorists and support the industrial development in the oilsands."

Construction will begin on the remaining 224 kilometres of twinning south of Highway 881 as designs are completed and federal environmental permits are obtained. The total cost of twinning the 240-kilometres of highway is estimated to be more than $940 million. The province will contribute more than $790 million toward the twinning project and up to $150 million will come from the federal government under the Canada Strategic Infrastructure Fund.

This project is one of several underway this year to improve safety and expand the capacity of the provincial highway network in the Wood Buffalo region.

Road repair and construction is one of the actions under Premier Ed Stelmach's plan to manage growth pressures. Other priorities for the government are to govern with integrity and transparency, improve Albertans' quality of life, build a stronger Alberta, and provide safe and secure communities.


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## Xelebes

Another one, an overpass through Grande Prairie.

Grande Prairie bypass unclogs city arteries

Industry invited to bid on first project for the new bypass

Grande Prairie... Start of construction on the Grande Prairie bypass is one step closer, as the Alberta government invites industry to competitively bid on the first project, a new overpass. The new two-lane overpass bridge will accommodate eastbound traffic from the future Highway 43 bypass over Highway 2. Westbound traffic will use the existing two-lane overpass bridge.

"The new overpass bridge marks the start of the Grande Prairie bypass," said Luke Ouellette, Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation. "This is a tremendous move forward and the initial work of the overpass and first few kilometers of the bypass will provide an immediate reduction in the volume of industrial traffic through the City of Grande Prairie. When completed, the 14-kilometre bypass will mean reduced congestion and increased safety for Grande Prairie motorists."

The cost of the overpass construction will be determined following the completion of the tender process, set to close July 12. Construction could begin as early as fall 2007, pending the results of the bidding process, with work on the overpass structure completed by fall 2008.

"The bypass is a critical infrastructure investment that will go a long way to improving traffic congestion in and around Grande Prairie,"said Mel Knight, Minister of Energy and MLA for Grande Prairie-Smoky.

The overpass would open to traffic following the completion of three kilometres of roadway connecting 116 Street (Range Road 63) with the new overpass structure and the existing eastbound Highway 43 lanes. Land negotiations for the Highway 43 bypass right-of-way are currently underway and construction timelines on the roadwork will be set after the negotiations are finalized.

"Moving the large transport vehicles around the outskirts of the city will help relieve some of the pressures on our local roads and help make driving safer for all motorists," said Gordon Graydon, MLA for Grande Prairie-Wapiti.

As part of the initial bypass work, the Government of Alberta is also finalizing an agreement with CN Railway to construct a new bridge over the railway track east of the Highway 43 and Highway 2 interchange.

New highway construction is one of the actions under Premier Ed Stelmach's plan to manage growth pressures. Other priorities for the government are to govern with integrity and transparency, improve Albertans' quality of life, build a stronger Alberta, and provide safe and secure communities.


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## Æsahættr

It would be amazing if they made it all a four-lane divided highway, and maybe even all access controlled!
But it's nice now.


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## algonquin

It should be noted that the two-lane stretch of the Trans-Canada that crosses the Ontario-Manitoba border is the _only_ road that links the country together at this point. There are no other options.

I'll aslo add that both the Trans-Canada and the Yellowhead are extended as far as the Queen Charlotte Islands, about 300 miles northwest of Vancouver Island. It seems odd to me that both highways are represented there, perhaps my information is misguided (google maps). I am quite sure that one of either are at least there.


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## radi6404

Oh my god, that´s a highway, jesus christ.









The villageroad in the village my relatives live in bulgaria looks better.


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## Blijdorp

What's rong with it? The road on your picture is obviously new I think most roads in Bulgaria look worse then this Canadian highway. Also roads in Canada have to endure a lot in weather conditions.


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## ChrisZwolle

Looks on that pic if the final pavement hasn't been installed yet.


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## radi6404

Chris1491 said:


> Looks on that pic if the final pavement hasn't been installed yet.


I don´t think they will install antoehr pavment since it is a villageroad with 20 cars a day. And chris, you always have to critisaze something


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## ChrisZwolle

radi6404 said:


> And chris, you always have to critisaze something


What else do you expect from a discussion forum :lol:


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## radi6404

Blijdorp said:


> What's rong with it? The road on your picture is obviously new I think most roads in Bulgaria look worse then this Canadian highway. Also roads in Canada have to endure a lot in weather conditions.


It´s nto true at all that most bulgaria roads look worse than this road, you know nothing man, the entire E79 from sofia to grece looks better than this one and that are 200 km, and many other sections,too.


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## Verso

radi6404 said:


> And chris, you always have to critisaze something





radi6404 said:


> Oh my god, that´s a highway, jesus christ.


:lol: 

Btw, Canada is a country with (one of) the densest motorway ("highway") network per capita in the world, with extreme weather conditions!


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## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, i have an aunt living somewhere in Alberta, and she has to drive like half a day to reach the nearest town of importance. Canada is the second largest country in the world with only 30 million inhabitants, mostly centered around a few large cities. So those long miles with no-one around has to be payed by someone, so you can't expect all deserted roads to be in excellent condition, in particular when you involve the huge temperature differences and weather conditions in this case.


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## 3hrs

Nevermind. I asked if it went through PEI and then reread the original post.


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## algonquin

Let's reiterate the point that the Trans-Canada is almost 8,000 km long in total length, many portions of which go through areas with almost no population (particularly stretches through Ontario). The highway varies greatly in terms of surface condition, number of lanes, etc. The portion shown in the first post of the thread is one section just west of Calgary, at the foothills of the Rocky Mountains.

Canadian highways are by no means perfect. In rural areas, it is not important to maintain a perfect surface, nor is it possible (due to the freeze/thaw effects of winter, and sheer length of the road). If radi6404 thinks Bulgaria could maintain an 8,000 km highway with a perfect surface throughout such conditions, then that's great.

A few photo's of the TCH in Ontario, to illustrate the wide variety of road conditions:

A photo of the TCH in Northern Ontario, by Lake Superior:









the TCH through Ottawa:









the TCH a few hours north of Toronto:









the TCH in Northern Ontario, hundreds of miles from anywhere:


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## radi6404

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Radi, is there any place in the world that can beat Bulgaria in anything? :lol: You criticise German roads and compare the TCH with the local Bulgarian half-paved road without any marking. I don't know if you ever drove on TCH, but I did drive in Bulgaria back in 2002. Trust me, you cannot even compare Bulgaria and Canada because they are in different weight categories.
> 
> When Bulgaria moves 15-20 degrees to the North, builds 8,000-km expressway and manages to maintain it, then we can start this discussion again :cheers:


OMG, first i am kidding, second, the road is not half paved, you talk bulshit if you say the road is half paved, the asphalt isn´t very fat there, yeah, but it also isn´t very fat on German village roads, it´s probably 4 cm, so it is on this road, too. Second, the TCH is better but the Bulgarian villageroad looks better because it´s new, that´s just IMO ofcourse. you travelled in bulgaria back in 2002, it has changed a LOOOOOOT since then, don´t you get this? New shiny motorways were built, main streets were upgraded and still are upgradng etc. I do not say bulgaria has a good roadnetwork whoever i am proud they are upgrading it for sure. And i am not arrogant.


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## Xelebes

keber said:


> I think you're overreacting. While I wasn't yet in Canada, I'm sure that driving on that highway is not more dangerous than on many rural highways in Europe.



The most dangerous thing to drive into is a cow in Europe. In Canada, we have moose which apparently are more dangerous than cattle.

thankfully I live on the prairies and we only have cows, deer and antelope to worry about for any threats.

Also:

You'd have to be in Southern Ontario or Saskatchewan for having mere 20 km between villages. There is many stretches of highway (not necessarily Trans-Canada Highway) where there is no settlement for 300-500 km. Distances in Canada are measured in hours (hour = 100 km, minute = 2 km). You'd have to be in a metropolis area to get 1-10 km distances between towns.


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## keber

Nephasto said:


> ?! Hum... let's see: in a rural road in Europa there's usually no wild animals like mooses regularly crossing the roads, the traffic is much higher, and your probably some 20 (or less... this would be like a worst case scenario) km's away from the nearest village.
> 
> If you sayd: It's not more dagerouse than on may rural highways in northern scandinavia, that I'd agree with you. (ok, ok, scandinacia is in Europe, but it's just a part of it)


I have to agree with you about wildlife (although deers are very common sight on roads in my neighborhood); I was more pointing about road quality:

>>> Many places have very soft shoulders, and washouts aren't uncommon.
Common sight on many Europe rural highways.


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## vid

"The most dangerous thing to drive into is a cow in Europe. In Canada, we have moose which apparently are more dangerous than cattle."

They're eight feet tall, have a giant rack on their heads, are dark brown and come out at night.

"Common sight on many Europe rural highways."

Yes, but this is the TRANS CANADA, additionally, this is the only road linking east and west. In Europe, you can make a detour quickly. If the TCH between Thunder Bay and Nipigon or around the Manitoba border is severed, you're SOL. You HAVE to wait there, or go around through the US, because there is _no_ alternate route, aside from going through back roads, which are usually dead ends and receive less than 50 vehicles a year in most cases. If you get stuck out on those, you're fucked.


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## Verso

Maybe some people think that only the northern half of Canada is a real wilderness.


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## vid

You don't even have to go too far from Toronto to be stuck in the middle of buttfuck nowhere.  Though it's easier to get out of their buttfucks than ours, and ours are a walk in the 900 million acre park compared to Nunavut's Western-Europe-sized tundra.


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## mgk920

vid said:


> "The most dangerous thing to drive into is a cow in Europe. In Canada, we have moose which apparently are more dangerous than cattle."
> 
> They're eight feet tall, have a giant rack on their heads, are dark brown and come out at night.
> 
> "Common sight on many Europe rural highways."
> 
> Yes, but this is the TRANS CANADA, additionally, this is the only road linking east and west. In Europe, you can make a detour quickly. If the TCH between Thunder Bay and Nipigon or around the Manitoba border is severed, you're SOL. You HAVE to wait there, or go around through the US, because there is _no_ alternate route, aside from going through back roads, which are usually dead ends and receive less than 50 vehicles a year in most cases. If you get stuck out on those, you're fucked.


I'm very amazed at that from a national unity standpoint alone. ALL of eastern Canada and ALL of western Canada are held together at one point _within Canada_ (it's actually about a half hour or so northeast of Thunder Bay, ON) by literally one two lane road and two single-track railroads. There aren't even any dirt sideroad alternates there. I really, honestly am very amazed that the country has held together for so long with such weak internal transport connections.

Also, the going is so rough, so incredibly rugged, north of Lake Superior that I have zero doubt that if the USA-Canada border was not where it currently is, neither the present-day TCH nor at least the CP mainline would have been built where they are now, across the top of Lake Superior. The CN mainline - a 'maybe' at most - and only the old CN line through Hearst, ON would be a definite 'yes', IMHO.

With no international border, the major east-west road and railroad connections in that region would have gone through the far, far, far, far easier present-day upper peninsula of Michigan and far northern Wisconsin.

Mike


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## vid

Yes but North of Superior does have some amazing scenery. 










The highway is in the lower left, you can barely see it. 


CN Rail Trestle at Pass Lake. CN only has one track going into Thunder Bay from it's main rail line.


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## Verso

mgk920 said:


> ALL of eastern Canada and ALL of western Canada are held together at one point _within Canada_ (it's actually about a half hour or so northeast of Thunder Bay, ON) by literally one two lane road and two single-track railroads.


Amazing! Didn't know that. Could someone please show us where exactly this is? And how long the section is? Thanks in advance.


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## Xelebes

Vid just posted pictures of that area.


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## vid

Well, what he said was _technically_ incorrect. There _are_ back roads you can take, but they're dirt roads and transports aren't generally allowed to use them, unless they _have_ to. (Are making a delivery there, are logging trucks to an operation, etc.) but otherwise, they stay out. They don't make good detours because they're hard to navigate and have a tendency to dead end themselves quickly.

It starts between MacKenzie and Pearl, at Nelso Road
Map

It ends between Nipigon and Lake Helen, at the intersection of Trans-Canada / Ontario Highway 17 and Ontario Highway 11.
map

It's two lane in it's entirety, and gets about 8000 to 15000 vehicles per day depending on time of day and season.


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## Verso

Thanks, vid!  You must feel important, living close.  Anyway, that would be about 68 km (42 mi), although as I can see, the section's not left without detour for its entire length (if those roads are proper). But most of it, yes.

When was this section built? And the entire TCH?


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## vid

This section was built in the 40s or 50s, before the Trans-Canada, but wasn't paved until about the late 50s early 60s I think. The TCH was completed in 1971.


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## Verso

^ Before our first motorway, crap.  So in 1971 Canada's east and west were linked up.


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## vid

By road. They were linked by rail almost 100 years earlier than that.

Speaking of rail, Thunder Bay doesn't get VIA. Some weird bureaucratic bullshit involving their management. It's been fucking hard getting them back into the city, the last guy (A Quebecor, I babysat his kids a lot.  He lived down the street from me) got close but eventually failed. Another report is being done, though. Hopefully by 2010 we'll get more passenger rail other than the stray Orient Express popping up for no apparent reason. 


MP should push for highways
By Karl Lehto, Thunder Bay
Wednesday, June 27, 2007


Email this article
Printer friendly page
Congratulations to Joe Comuzzi for standing up for Thunder Bay and his decision to join the Conservative Party of Canada. Hopefully this will stimulate a new vision of hope for our city, our region, and all of Northern Ontario.
I have no particular political affiliation but I will vote Conservative in a heartbeat – as will many of us from Kenora to Sudbury – if Comuzzi can convince Prime Minister Stephen Harper that one issue will have a huge impact on national unity, national and local tourism, transportation, travel safety and the general economic revival of Northern Ontario.
He must explain to Harper that the longest, brutally neglected, substandard, dangerous, non-divided stretch of the Trans-Canada Highway in Canada exists in Northern Ontario. It is a national disgrace and the single biggest deterrent to our economic revival.
Remind Mr. Harper that from Nipigon to Shabaqua there is no alternative route should a disastrous accident befall any bridge on this section of our national highway and all east-west highway traffic in our country would immediately cease.
Also remind the Prime Minister that Highway 17 is not a road to nowhere, but part of our only national highway. As one of the richest countries in the world, we should have at least one decent divided highway from coast to coast!
Sir John A. Macdonald had a national dream to unite this country by rail. Perhaps Mr. Harper can rekindle and revise the Trans-Canada Highway Act of 1949 with a new national dream to build a decent divided highway, starting right here and right now – with no more feasibility studies – from Nipigon to Shabaqua, where it is needed most.
And to all our national and provincial politicians representing Northern Ontario, I think it is time to follow Joe‘s lead by putting our desperate needs ahead of individual party lines.
Above all, fight tooth and nail for us in Northern Ontario.

http://www.chroniclejournal.com/stories.php?id=50977


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## Verso

Although, as I can see, if going from Canada's far east to far west (by road), it's faster through the US.


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## vid

Yes, their highways are divided, so you can drive faster. They're also straighter, ours curves and bends too much.


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## sonysnob

It's two lane in it's entirety, and gets about 8000 to 15000 vehicles per day depending on time of day and season.[/QUOTE]

Its not nearly that busy. In 2003 annual average traffic ranged from 5200 to 3400 AADT on this stretch of highway. The benchmark for constructing a freeway is usually at about the 10,000AADT range (sometimes a tad lower if a corridor is accelerated, which generally happen for political reasons).

For anyone who has seen any South Park episodes where they make fun of Canada for only having one road, they are indeed correct for parts of this stretch (and a few sections near Kenora as well). Personally I think it is a tad ridiculous for there not to be any sort of alternate route through this stretch, a secondary highway would suffice for much of the length. For anyone looking for a more detailed photo tour of this stretch of the TCH, I invite them to look at my website's coverage of this portion of Highway 17:

http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_17_images/Hwy17_p2b_images.htm

:cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

vid said:


> Yes, their highways are divided, so you can drive faster. They're also straighter, ours curves and bends too much.


Who want's to drive such a great distance? (only freaks like us :lol: )


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## Verso

sonysnob said:


> http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_17_images/Hwy17_p2b_images.htm


Thank you! :cheers:


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## vid

Billpa said:


> Do you always see the Lord in the cracks of roadways?


It's an exclamation, not literal.


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## Nephasto

Somebody here is lacking a sense of humour...


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## Billpa

vid said:


> It's an exclamation, not literal.


Yes, I know. 
Just a little joke.

Nevermind.


----------



## go_leafs_go02

Coming from Ontario. I have been consistently shocked at the crazy state of Montreal highways and how badly they need repairing.


----------



## Electrify

I'm surprised the TCH completely misses Toronto. At most, it might skim through the rural outskirts of the CMA but that's it. They should designate some of the area's highways as part of the TCH so that we aren't left out from the rest of the country.


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## vid

The TCH used to go right to downtown Toronto. You can thank Mike Harris for it's leaving. The TCH doesn't really need to go to Toronto anyway, the 400 system is much higher quality.

*Highway delays as rig pulled out of lake*
_Tb News Source | Web Posted: 7/4/2007 2:00:17 PM_
http://www.tbsource.com/Localnews/index.asp?cid=97611

Travelers faced delays Wednesday as a transport was pulled from the depths of a northern Ontario lake beside the Trans-Canada Highway.

Police say a truck driver managed to swim to safety after his rig left the highway and sank to the bottom of Energy Lake east of Kenora. Traffic on Highway 17 was reduced to one lane for several hours as work began at 9 a.m. and was expected to last several hours. A crane was used to recover the tractor-trailer. *Police are continuing the investigation into how the rig ended up in the lake along the windy stretch of highway*.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?ie=UTF8&...229,-94.01825&spn=0.478536,0.983276&z=10&om=0


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## ssiguy2

The TCH is a disgrace. It is good thru the Praries, Qubec, and increasingly the Martimes but has a hube gapping whole in Northern Ontario all the way from Arnprior to the Manitoba border. 
BC is not very good but getting better much faster due to large widening projects. They can be cut some slack due to the terrain. 

On Vancouver Island it was meant to be freeway from Campbell River to Victoria but due to the NDP government wasting $300mil it is only freeway an small portion and is littered with lights. 
The Newfoundland section is a right off except in the immediate St.John's area.


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## go_leafs_go02

vid said:


> The TCH used to go right to downtown Toronto. You can thank Mike Harris for it's leaving. The TCH doesn't really need to go to Toronto anyway, the 400 system is much higher quality.
> 
> *Highway delays as rig pulled out of lake*
> _Tb News Source | Web Posted: 7/4/2007 2:00:17 PM_
> http://www.tbsource.com/Localnews/index.asp?cid=97611
> 
> Travelers faced delays Wednesday as a transport was pulled from the depths of a northern Ontario lake beside the Trans-Canada Highway.
> 
> Police say a truck driver managed to swim to safety after his rig left the highway and sank to the bottom of Energy Lake east of Kenora. Traffic on Highway 17 was reduced to one lane for several hours as work began at 9 a.m. and was expected to last several hours. A crane was used to recover the tractor-trailer. *Police are continuing the investigation into how the rig ended up in the lake along the windy stretch of highway*.
> 
> http://maps.google.ca/maps?ie=UTF8&...229,-94.01825&spn=0.478536,0.983276&z=10&om=0


the TCH never went to Toronto. Pretty sure about that.

TCH really isn't important to the MTO (Minstry of Transportation of Onatrio) Notice how abysmally signed it is? Ontarians don't call highways as the TCH as far as I know, sure it might be noted. But it's always Highway 17, Highway 11 when you reference to the stretch of road.

You can blame Mike Harris for the downloading of countless provincial highways in the late 1990s, which has created a brutal highway system which I find very confusing and annoying. 

You are probably talking about this: http://www.thekingshighway.ca/jan11998.html


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## vid

"Ontarians don't call highways as the TCH as far as I know"

We do in the North. Outside of Thunder Bay and in all of NWO, Highway 11/17 is referred to as "the Trans-Canada". The article you quoted does just that, and the signs posted all over town do the same. The green Trans-Canada signs are more numerous than the Ontario King's Highway signs outside of the city.

The downloading also cut highways up, there are no less than 5 stretches of 11/17, 61, and 102 through Thunder Bay that are maintained by Thunder Bay, which resulted in money being taken out of the general road repair fund to upgrade them in the early 2000s. (The government conveniently went several years without maintaining the downloaded parts of highway before they were downloaded, resulting in millions of dollars of municipal money going to fund former provincial highways, instead of local streets)


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## Batman Can

*Highways of Ontario*

I do believe this may have been done already but this will be a little updated.

All photos from: http://www.onthighways.com/index.html

QEW





































400





































401
























































402



















403





































404




























405










406










407 ETR





































409



















410



















416



















417




























420



















427



















DVP


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice. I like those left shoulders. You don't see that often in Europe.

I was wondering, are there any double names for one city? Like an English and French one?


----------



## vid

"The City of Greater Sudbury" is, in French, "Le Ville du Grand-Sudbury". I'm pretty sure that's the only one, as Ottawa is just "Ottawa". There are also numerous towns in the north with dual names, such as Big Trout Lake First Nation, which is known in Cree as Kitchenuhmaykoosib Inninuwug. (Read as it's spelled.)

Trans-Canada 11/17, NE of Thunder Bay



























The three-lane Trans-Canada 17 through Lake Superior Provincial Park. Traffic on the left drives always in the right lane, using the left for passing only, and cannot cross the yellow. On the right, traffic can cross the yellow for passing only. Interesting to note, Ontario is actually flatter than Saskatchewan.


The lookout from the Tourist Info Station in Wawa on Trans-Canada 17


Trans-Canada 17 near Pic River Crossing


Trans-Canada 11/17, somewhere in the greater Lakehead


Trans-Canada 17 being given new life in Northwestern Ontario. The speed limit is 70km/h during resurfacing.


Portable lights are common at bridge reconstruction sites to allow traffic control without human presence.


Trans-Canada 17 north of the Soo


Trans-Canada 17 near Bonfield


Trans-Canada 17 with fog near Marathon




There are some companies that will advertise on billboards as much as 1000km from where they're located.


Ontario Highway 102, 30 Kilometers west of Thunder Bay.


----------



## Verso

Nice pix. I didn't know parts of Ontario were bilingual (English-French).










_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_sign_


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What the hell is that 3rd language?


----------



## LordMandeep

even though the DVp is always stuck in traffic its the most enjoyable drive especially during the summer.


----------



## vid

Chris1491 said:


> What the hell is that 3rd language?


Canadian Aboriginal Syllabics, it's probably Ojibwe or Cree, they're the two that use CAS the most.

The top sign says: Tsihtsiwee Meeskeenoo
The lower sign says: Waapistaan Meeskeenoo
The stop sign says: Tsipihtsii

The French says "Arrest" because telling people to arrest at corners is better than telling them to stop.


----------



## LordMandeep

if the TCH did cut near Toronto i would bet it would a much much better highway, just because its in Southern Ontario.

In Southern Ontario few have ever been or actually have heard much about that Highway.


----------



## Verso

Chris1491 said:


> What the hell is that 3rd language?


"Next time click the link before asking."








_http://www.pbase.com/perrona/image/56618945_


----------



## vid

They should probably just designate the 401 as part of the TCH. It's not like there is any funding attached to it, it's just a name they give it.


----------



## vid

LOL! Bad grandpa! BAD!


----------



## go_leafs_go02

vid said:


> "Ontarians don't call highways as the TCH as far as I know"
> 
> We do in the North. Outside of Thunder Bay and in all of NWO, Highway 11/17 is referred to as "the Trans-Canada". The article you quoted does just that, and the signs posted all over town do the same. The green Trans-Canada signs are more numerous than the Ontario King's Highway signs outside of the city.
> 
> The downloading also cut highways up, there are no less than 5 stretches of 11/17, 61, and 102 through Thunder Bay that are maintained by Thunder Bay, which resulted in money being taken out of the general road repair fund to upgrade them in the early 2000s. (The government conveniently went several years without maintaining the downloaded parts of highway before they were downloaded, resulting in millions of dollars of municipal money going to fund former provincial highways, instead of local streets)


I stand corrected. The TCH goes nowhere near here. Closest it gets really is towards Peterborough, where it is called Highway 12, Highway 7, etc. That's all.

Downloading of Highways in the North is nothing compared to what happened in the south. Provincial Highways (outside of the 400-series) is a rarity compared to 10 years ago.


----------



## vid

If Northern Ontario had municipalities (Districts, unlike counties, don't have any government form, there is nothing between municipal and provincial politics up here) we would have lost most of our highways as well. The government _can't_ download most highways up here, because there is no level of government to download them to.


----------



## go_leafs_go02

vid said:


> If Northern Ontario had municipalities (Districts, unlike counties, don't have any government form, there is nothing between municipal and provincial politics up here) we would have lost most of our highways as well. The government _can't_ download most highways up here, because there is no level of government to download them to.


true that.


----------



## mr.x

The Kicking Horse Canyon section of the Trans-Canada in British Columbia is getting a $1 billion revamp as we speak. This is a 26 km project in very rugged and mountainous land.

It includes North America's longest road tunnel at 2.9 kms and several other shorter tunnels, bridge replacements, safety improvements, more lanes (from 2 to 4 new lanes), and many more.








































And in Vancouver, there's a $1.5 billion plan to twin the Trans Canada's five-lane bridge and add more lanes along the highway.


----------



## mgk920

vid said:


> Canadian Aboriginal Syllabics, it's probably Ojibwe or Cree, they're the two that use CAS the most.
> 
> The top sign says: Tsihtsiwee Meeskeenoo
> The lower sign says: Waapistaan Meeskeenoo
> The stop sign says: Tsipihtsii
> 
> The French says "Arrest" because telling people to arrest at corners is better than telling them to stop.


Especially wacky since the red octagon 'stop' signs in France say...

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

"STOP"

:nuts: 

:lol:

:rofl:

Mike


----------



## vid

I know.  The Quebeckers HAVE to be different, any sign of similarities with English Canadians and they flip out.  They've even changed words to avoid similarities, it's absurd. Especially when you consider that English got the words from French, and not the other way around.


----------



## Nephasto

mr.x said:


> The Kicking Horse Canyon section of the Trans-Canada in British Columbia is getting a $1 billion revamp as we speak. This is a 26 km project in very rugged and mountainous land.


$1 billion (I supposes Canadian dollars), that's about 700 M €.

700M € for 26 km's of freeway? That's quite expensive.

2.6km's long tunnel? The longest in north america?! But that's really small!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> 700M € for 26 km's of freeway? That's quite expensive.


You ain't seen nothing yet. The Dutch A4 should be build for 700M € for 7km. That's a damn 100 € million per km. And the crash barriers aren't even gold or diamond...


----------



## vid

They're building the highway along mountains. 

And Canada really isn't one for tunnels anyway. We blow up mountains instead of going under them. 


This is somewhere in Northern Ontario. To be honest, it could be anywhere. Up here, if you aren't standing in a swamp, you're standing on rocks, or a foot of dirt covering the rocks.


----------



## Nephasto

Chris1491 said:


> You ain't seen nothing yet. The Dutch A4 should be build for 700M € for 7km. That's a damn 100 € million per km. And the crash barriers aren't even gold or diamond...


That's certainly outrageously expensive, but it's in a build up area I guess, right?


----------



## radi6404

Chris1491 said:


> You ain't seen nothing yet. The Dutch A4 should be build for 700M € for 7km. That's a damn 100 € million per km. And the crash barriers aren't even gold or diamond...


I hope these seven kilometers will look like the Struma motorway with mirrorfinish big crashbarriers and shining markings and dark black asphalt and superb shiny signs, the whole struma motorway will cost as much i think, and that are 156 km motorway, it is very cheap, i don´t know why, i hope it wilhave great quaility because if it is as cheap as 7 km motorway in the netherlands. anyway, why is the dutch motorway section so extremly epensie, is there extremly much corruption?


----------



## Nephasto

^^Well, what I hope is that it's a mega motorway, with a section of at least 3+3+3+3, with full separate access to each 3 lane way (like in the NJ turnpike). 

I however, pretty much doubt that (although the mony would certainly be more than enough to do it)...


----------



## Verso

Chris1491 said:


> You ain't seen nothing yet. The Dutch A4 should be build for 700M € for 7km. That's a damn 100 € million per km. And the crash barriers aren't even gold or diamond...


Will the motorway at least be horny?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nephasto said:


> That's certainly outrageously expensive, but it's in a build up area I guess, right?


No it goes over completely flat land, and a dike has been constructed for the motorway in the sixties. i don't know why it's this ridiculously expensive.


----------



## Nephasto

^^:eek2: :eek2: :eek2:


In here, and in Spain, those kind of motorways (2x2 in flat land) usually cost like 5M € per km or less.


----------



## keber

radi6404 said:


> I hope these seven kilometers will look like the Struma motorway with mirrorfinish big crashbarriers and shining markings and dark black asphalt and superb shiny signs, the whole struma motorway will cost as much i think, and that are 156 km motorway, it is very cheap, i don´t know why, i hope it wilhave great quaility because if it is as cheap as 7 km motorway in the netherlands. anyway, why is the dutch motorway section so extremly epensie, is there extremly much corruption?


No it won't have mirrorfinish chrashbarriers, shining markins, coal-dark black asphalt and superb shiny signs, because no-one needs that.

How old are you, ten years? :nuts: Please stop those stupid remarks about shining barriers and Struma motorway, you spoil every thread with your nonsense crap. 


And on-topic:
For the amount of work, price is comparative to some alpine motorways (which is quite similar to them), so I don't think, that it is very expensive.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

radi6404 said:


> anyway, why is the dutch motorway section so extremly epensie, is there extremly much corruption?


Read this news, dude: EU executive chides Romania, Bulgaria on corruption

And to answer your question as to why Struma motorway is cheaper, that's because the labour in Bulgaria is cheaper. I don't know about the quality of work in Bulgaria, but I'd like to point out that shiny barriers and signs constitute very little fraction of total funds allocated for the road construction. You are paying too much attention to minor things instead of concentrating on the major issue - for how long a road will preserve the acceptable quality? 

For instance, in Russia new roads look very sexy for the first year. Then, after the first winter you get huge cracks and pot holes that need to be filled regularly. At the same time, in Finland the roads are somehow able to withstand extreme temperature changes.


----------



## vid

Until Bulgaria becomes the fourth territory you guys have to finish your discussion elsewhere, m'kay?


----------



## keber

Is Kicking Horse Canyon section anyhow connected to upcoming winter Olympics in 2010?


----------



## vid

No, but it is being improved.

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/kickinghorse/index.htm


----------



## radi6404

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Read this news, dude: EU executive chides Romania, Bulgaria on corruption
> 
> And to answer your question as to why Struma motorway is cheaper, that's because the labour in Bulgaria is cheaper. I don't know about the quality of work in Bulgaria, but I'd like to point out that shiny barriers and signs constitute very little fraction of total funds allocated for the road construction. You are paying too much attention to minor things instead of concentrating on the major issue - for how long a road will preserve the acceptable quality?
> 
> For instance, in Russia new roads look very sexy for the first year. Then, after the first winter you get huge cracks and pot holes that need to be filled regularly. At the same time, in Finland the roads are somehow able to withstand extreme temperature changes.


Okay but bulgaria isn´t russia, people from EU are there to check if roads are built properly, how do you think the E79 stays with black asphalt and noone single hole for 7 years now, eh, eh eh? Becase it´s good quality road like other roads, two. And are you so dump and think Bulgaria want to rebuild he roads as there are plans to reconstruct the whole network? 

Keber, i am 19 and it´s definetly not bullshit what i am talking, it is important for me, if you are not interested in this don´t talk to me man, the highways section is there exactly for this. To me and other people i know it is important the roads to look nice, i like that, just you in slovenia are the right person to tlak because Slovenia also makes the motorways to look good.


----------



## Verso




----------



## radi6404

Verso said:


>


What´s so funny?


----------



## mr.x

*Sea-to-Sky Highway: Road for the 2010 Olympics*











*Project Overview*

As part of Highway 99, the Sea-to-Sky Highway winds its way through the spectacular Coast Mountains, linking communities from West Vancouver to Whistler. British Columbia’s Ministry of Transportation has initiated the *$600 million Sea-to-Sky Highway Improvement Project* to increase this road’s safety, reliability and capacity. In addition to meeting the area’s future traffic needs, the upgrades will also enhance economic development opportunities in communities along the highway and in the province as a whole.

During construction, project staff are working hard to ensure the improvements are carried out safely, efficiently and with minimal disruption to the public. These efforts to keep traffic running smoothly will continue until the project is *completed in 2009*, in time for the 2010 Olympic Games.



*Project Benefits*

Some of the many benefits the Sea-to-Sky Highway Improvement Project will provide include:

- A straighter highway and improved sightlines, creating more consistent driving speeds and shorter travel times
- 80 kilometres of new passing lanes between Horseshoe Bay and Whistler
- Highly reflective pavement markings along the entire route, making the SeatoSky Highway easier to navigate, particularly during times of poor visibility
- Shoulder and centreline rumble strips and additional median barriers
- Safer, more effective intersections
- Wider shoulders for improved safety and accommodation for cyclists and disabled vehicles
- Better pullouts and opportunities for police enforcement along the highway
- Stronger bridges to withstand potential damage from debris when water levels are high
- Concrete dividers between directions and the sides of the road
- Enhanced monitoring of road conditions by electronic weather stations to improve highway maintenance response during winter weather
- 6,000 new jobs throughout the province as a result of economic activity generated along the corridor
- Provincial GDP increased by $300 million over the period of 2010 to 2025


Squamish to Whistler
- 3-lanes throughout this section
- straightening, widening, improved sightlines
- alternating passing lanes

Murrin Park to Squamish
- 4-lane divided highway
- Median Barriers throughout including the addition of urban design features in Squamish

North of Lions Bay to Murrin Park
- mix of 2, 3, and 4-lane sections
- 4-lane sections will have median barriers

West Vancouver to Lions Bay
- 4-lanes with continuous median barrier
- straightening, widening, and improved sightlines


*After improvements are completed, the highway will be safer and it will shave travel time from West Vancouver to Whistler by 30 minutes; from 120 minutes to 90 minutes.*


For more information, visit the official website: www.seatoskyimprovements.ca


----------



## mr.x

*Spring 2007: entire project is 65% complete*


West Vancouver - Eagleridge Bluffs interchange


















































To Squamish















































































































































































































































To Whistler


----------



## thecarlost

A magnificient work, so precise in every constructive detail, at the same time so simple and plain, like respecting the incredible scenary surrounding it.

One of my favorite roads, from now on.

(L) BC.


----------



## Bartolo

But Bulgaria doesn't have the same extreme temperature shifts as Canada, potholes are created through a freeze/thaw process and the water particles within the road may freeze and thaw many times through the year which creates the potholes, because the freezing causes the water to expands, and then when it melts, it leaves a larger hole for more water to get in, and the holes continue to get bigger till they get repaired in the spring, summer. Hence why in Canada the 4 seasons are Winter, More Winter, Still Winter and Road Construction. And truly road repairs are done continuously for 3-4 months straight. Sure not in the same location, but every year repairs have to be done. So for roads to be perfect is easier in Bulgaria than in Canada, do to Bulgaria having a more favourable climate. And I'm done


----------



## TheCat

Beautiful!


----------



## DrT

Great that it is on schedule for the games. Magnificent road. All the communities along the way will see spurred development.


----------



## Æsahættr

Wow, a fine piece of engineering.
It's amazing what infrastructure a country will improve for the olympics... I wish the olympics went to more places!


----------



## keber

Spectacular scenery! :cheers:

Also, what do colors mean on this map?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interesting.

It's funny to see how motorways/subways/trains are being build for major international sports events like the olympics or soccer championships.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

radi6404 said:


> Keber, i am 19 and it´s definetly not bullshit what i am talking, it is important for me, if you are not interested in this don´t talk to me man,* the highways section is there exactly for this.*


The Bulgarian topic is exactly for this.


----------



## Plumber73

I don't think the upgrade was done specifically for the Olympics. It needed to be done anyway. The Olympics just gave reason to do it sooner.


----------



## mr.x

Plumber73 said:


> I don't think the upgrade was done specifically for the Olympics. It needed to be done anyway. The Olympics just gave reason to do it sooner.


Yup, the Ministry of Transportation was planning a highway upgrade for 2012 but it was fast tracked, like many other projects, a few years for the Olympics.

It's a needed upgrade anyway, being the deadliest road in British Columbia. The sharp turns, narrow lanes, and poor sightlines have been the cause of thousands of car crashes every year. Last year, two dozen people lost their lives. Beautiful yet deadly.


----------



## Bartolo

Well I'd rather have dull looking Tall-Wall barriers than shiny guiderails, because atleast the dull things will stop me


----------



## radi6404

Chris1491 said:


> The Bulgarian topic is exactly for this.


Yeah and so is the Dutch highways section for mentioning the 700€ for 7 km motorway.


----------



## vid

My city does about 4,000,000$ for road repair annually, just over 2% of the city budget.


----------



## Verso

Ahh, what a ride that would be! :cheers2:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

radi6404 said:


> Yeah and so is the Dutch highways section for mentioning the 700€ for 7 km motorway.


At least i don't post that in EVERY topic. :bash:


----------



## trainrover

*Québec autoroutes*

News in Québec are now reporting that the provincial government is escalating investigations of the integrity of no less than 140 overpasses up and down the St-Lawrence valley. This bit of news is the biggest one of a string of articles touching upon the overall state of the province's autoroute network.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah we have those problems too with bridges build in the seventies. Some of them are even closed for truck traffic (including motorways!)


----------



## isaidso

Does anyone have a map showing which sections of the Trans-Canada are twinned AND divided highway. Is there any province where it is all twinned AND divided? I would imagine that Nova Scotia or Quebec would be closest to this standard.


----------



## vid

Actually, Saskatchewan and Manitoba are pretty close to being entirely twinned and divided, and have speed limits of about 110 to 120 in some places, simply because of the distance. New Brunswick also has lots of divided highway.


----------



## Billpa

vid said:


> Actually, Saskatchewan and Manitoba are pretty close to being entirely twinned and divided, and have speed limits of about 110 to 120 in some places, simply because of the distance. New Brunswick also has lots of divided highway.



The stretch in Quebec from the Rivier du Loup area south-east into NB I believe was supposed to be twinned at some point in the not-too-distant future. I'm not sure of the status through that area, however.
Also, a couple of summers ago I was on the TCH near Grand Falls, NB and it was a regular two-laner but you could see where they were making way for a twinning through there- I guess to meet up with the section between Fredricton and Woodstock.


----------



## Bartolo

The TCH is twinned from the ST. Jacques to St. Leonard and then its twinned near Woodstock and then from Kingsclear, a little west of Fredericton to the NB-NS Border


----------



## isaidso

So, Ontario and BC would be furthest behind in twinning. I think New Brunswick still has a way to go. Almost none of it north of Fredericton is twinned unless major construction has happened in the past 5 years.


----------



## AUchamps

isaidso said:


> So, Ontario and BC would be furthest behind in twinning. I think New Brunswick still has a way to go. Almost none of it north of Fredericton is twinned unless major construction has happened in the past 5 years.


http://www.gnb.ca/0113/tch/index-e.asp


----------



## isaidso

Thank you very much AUchamps, that is exactly the type of map I was looking for. New Brunswick has made massive improvement in the Trans-Canada since I last travelled it. I'm very impressed. Do you have any for other provinces?


----------



## Bartolo

I think all provinces can easily get there sections of the Trans-Canada twinned minus Ontario, BC and Alberta. Ontario because they amount of roadway needing to be twinned is huge, and if they do choose to, they will most likely take the northern route using highway 11 since it is located on mostly flat terrain, and would be cheaper to construct on, also it is the slightly shorter route. And I don't see BC or Alberta completing their sections through the Rockies.


----------



## sonysnob

I think the TCH through Alberta likely will be twinned in the not-do-distant future. Aside from the mess that 16th Avenue is in Calgary, there isn't much left to do through Banff.

I think a lot more of BC's segment will get twinned as well. While the road isn't all that busy, it is often built to often geometry, and traffic often gets backed up, particularly since long passing lanes are very scarce in BC.


----------



## Calvin W

The TCH is twinned in Saskatchewan along #1 Highway. The portion of #16 highway which is also designated TCH is about half twinned. The final portion between Lloydminster and Saskatoon will be completed this year. The only portion not twinned will be from Saskatoon eastward thru Yorkton and on to the Manitoba border. At present the government has no plans to twin this section.


----------



## vid

Bartolo said:


> I think all provinces can easily get there sections of the Trans-Canada twinned minus Ontario, BC and Alberta. Ontario because they amount of roadway needing to be twinned is huge, and if they do choose to, they will most likely take the northern route using highway 11 since it is located on mostly flat terrain, and would be cheaper to construct on, also it is the slightly shorter route. And I don't see BC or Alberta completing their sections through the Rockies.


They wouldn't twin 11. With the exception of Thunder Bay, no other major cities are on the 11. If they're twinning the Trans-Canada through Northern Ontario, it will be highway 17, and it will probably be the last part of the entire Trans-Canada to be twinned aside from Highway 11, which in all likely hood will _never_ be twinned. If current population trends continue, the NWO Section would probably warrant twinning around 2700, with the Northeastern Ontario never being fully twinned as it's population is plummeting. (NWO gained about 2000 between 2001 and 2006, and the numbers are increasing over time, while NEO has been continually dropping outside of it's major centres) 

By the time the Trans-Canada in Northern Ontario is twinned, we'll have advanced to whatever replaces cars. Probably teleportation or something. Seriously. Unless we do get to the point where the North is one riding (around 2250 or so if we don't keep fighting) and then the North ends up having the Premier, _maybe_ we'll see twinning sooner. But otherwise, I wouldn't bet on is being more than 33% twinned before 3000.


----------



## Calvin W

So what are you saying vid? No twinning in Northern Ontario before 2250, 2700 or is it 3000?


----------



## isaidso

sonysnob said:


> I think the TCH through Alberta likely will be twinned in the not-do-distant future. Aside from the mess that 16th Avenue is in Calgary, there isn't much left to do through Banff.


What is the nature of the mess at 16th Avenue? If this is a highway, how could there possibly be any obstructions such as intersections, stop signs, traffic lights, etc. Are there too few lanes at this section of the Trans-Canada, thus causing a bottle neck?


----------



## Calvin W

isaidso said:


> What is the nature of the mess at 16th Avenue? If this is a highway, how could there possibly be any obstructions such as intersections, stop signs, traffic lights, etc. Are there too few lanes at this section of the Trans-Canada, thus causing a bottle neck?


It is not a highway but a street.


----------



## vid

Northern Ontario will probably be one riding in 2250, while the south will be about 350.  Nothing in the Northwest will warrant twinning before 2700, and the North won't have more than a third of it's highways twinned in 3000.


----------



## isaidso

Calvin W said:


> It is not a highway but a street.


WHAT? OMG!! The Trans Canada Highway turns into a street? I'm absolutely floored. As far as I'm concerned, they haven't finished building it yet then. Highways have zero obstructions on them. That's what makes them highways.


----------



## Calvin W

isaidso said:


> WHAT? OMG!! The Trans Canada Highway turns into a street? I'm absolutely floored. As far as I'm concerned, they haven't finished building it yet then. Highways have zero obstructions on them. That's what makes them highways.


Guess what leave Toronto and most highways at some point in time turn into streets.

As for the Trans Canada highway, it is a highway not What you are mistaken it for a Freeway.


----------



## TheCat

Calvin W said:


> Guess what leave Toronto and most highways at some point in time turn into streets.
> 
> As for the Trans Canada highway, it is a highway not What you are mistaken it for a Freeway.


Well, highways must have a beginning and an end, so it's fine that highways in Toronto eventually begin/end at streets (well, a lot of small provincial or county highways ARE streets in many cases, but the 400 series strictly speaking exit to a street at the end, they do not turn into a street all of a sudden). The Trans-Canada, on the other hand, turns into streets in the middle.

However, with that being said, the Trans-Canada isn't really a highway, but more so simply a label given to a set of different roads in Canada, following which you can cross Canada. And yes, the legal definition of "highway" is simply a road (doesn't even have to be paved).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, the Breezewood gap is more like an incomplete interchange. I think the gap is less than a mile. I think they just sign it as I-70 for continuity, but i could be US30 too. (The US30 is a secondary road from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia). 

The problem is that the I-70 from Baltimore, doesn't connect directly at the Pennsylvania turnpike, but via a local road in Breezewood.


----------



## Bartolo

There were plans to complete it, but there is a huge amount of community opposition to it


----------



## Gibson

A pike was the barrier pole that crossed the road. By paying a toll, you could "turn the pike" and clear the way to continue forward. Hence "turnpike".


----------



## algonquin

Gibson said:


> A pike was the barrier pole that crossed the road. By paying a toll, you could "turn the pike" and clear the way to continue forward. Hence "turnpike".


thank you!


----------



## ttownfeen

Here's what I've been told:

Road = a defined pathway for vehicular travel, maybe maintained by a government or not

Highway = a government-maintained road that connects from area or region to another area or region

Expressway = a highway that is optimized for high-speed travel, but not necessary grade-separated

Freeway = a grade-seperated highway. The "free" in "freeway" refers not to it being toll-free, but the highway being being free of at-grade intersections.

Interestate Highway = a designation given to freeways in the United States by the federal government


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The only 2 English words that fully apply to grade-seperated, 2x2 lanes (or more) roads, are Freeway and Motorway, in my opinion. 

Expressway comes close, but in many countries, Expressways aren't always grade-seperated and more like a large distance boulevard or avenue.


----------



## Xusein

Chris1491 said:


>


:rofl:

I remember this road. When I came back from Ohio in 2005, a couple friends and I decided to take a little trip to DC via I-70. I was like "WTF happened to the highway??".

They probably will never get rid of it. The trucking lobby won't allow it.


----------



## isaidso

That would be a bizarre experience for me too. Driving on a highway and then.....OMG....we're coming to a stop....a traffic light? It would be one of those 'twilight moments'.


----------



## algonquin

isaidso said:


> That would be a bizarre experience for me too. Driving on a highway and then.....OMG....we're coming to a stop....a traffic light? It would be one of those 'twilight moments'.


Drive the Hanlon Expressway in Guelph (Hwy. 6)... it's like that.


----------



## vid

Going down 11/17, westbound, is like driving through bush, you even get to drive on 4 lane divided highway, until BANG - lighted intersection at Balsam Street. 

It was the first intersection on the expressway to get a major offramp, linking eastbound traffic to Huron Street, but the interchange wasn't completed. The area around it is highway right of way though, so it can be built at any time.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?ie=UTF8&...89.225668&spn=0.003813,0.010772&t=k&z=17&om=0

And five kilometres down is a lighted intersection where one expressway intersects the other!


----------



## Bartolo

Hanlon Expressway should be a full freeway instead of the half-assed expressway it is now, and there should be a connection made between that and Highway 6 to Fergus, instead of it going down Woodlawn (?) Road


----------



## TheCat

A few weeks ago I made a trip from Toronto to Wasaga Beach, which is around 120km away. I captured most of the drive on my camera, even though it's an inexpensive picture camera and therefore the quality isn't that great, and the video also skipped frames (especially during some of the turns, which look almost instantaneous).

The drive begins in northern Toronto and Thornhill (a suburb immediately adjacent to Toronto), then most of it is on Highway 400 until Barrie (a city about 100km away), and finally a drive on Highway 26, which is a 2-lane road but is really nicely paved and marked.

Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7_x1RVnJRk


----------



## go_leafs_go02

TheCat said:


> A few weeks ago I made a trip from Toronto to Wasaga Beach, which is around 120km away. I captured most of the drive on my camera, even though it's an inexpensive picture camera and therefore the quality isn't that great, and the video also skipped frames (especially during some of the turns, which look almost instantaneous).
> 
> The drive begins in northern Toronto and Thornhill (a suburb immediately adjacent to Toronto), then most of it is on Highway 400 until Barrie (a city about 100km away), and finally a drive on Highway 26, which is a 2-lane road but is really nicely paved and marked.
> 
> Here's the link:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7_x1RVnJRk


neat vid..thanks for sharing.

been in europe the past week and for another week still..and yeah..i miss our big cars..everything is so compact and tiny...haha.

i haven't seen hardly a 4 lane roadway (minus an expressway) since i left canada..including London England.


----------



## -KwK345-

James Foong said:


> do u hv more mind-blowing pics of 401?


Yea, I have seen that pic so many times.



great prairie said:


>


Awesome^^


----------



## -KwK345-

DrJoe said:


>


Amazing


----------



## -KwK345-

Great pics FahadKhan!


----------



## rick1016

FahadKhan, those first couple are right near my house!!


----------



## rick1016

I'm near Dixie and QEW.


----------



## lambersart2005

*Autoroutes québecoises! Québec freeways!*

this forum needs more pics of the great québec freeway network - so feel free to post your photos, comments etc. 
I spent some time there and really appreciated the numbering system and the well designed signage. 
I will soon add some of my pictures, mostly of the Montréal area.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
montrez vos photos des autoroutes québecoises  J'adore la province et son système routier, des images à venir...


----------



## Velkan

^^ yeah :cheers:


----------



## SCWTC4

here for you new jersey turnpike near newark harbor.. 18 lanes in total :nuts: 

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=...74.144105&spn=0.002806,0.006781&t=k&z=18&om=1


----------



## sonysnob

A-40 in western Montreal:





























A-20 east of Montreal


----------



## AUchamps

Besides the A-20 problems west of Montreal, is there a timeframe to fix this substandard section of A-20 east of Montreal? You know, either a bridge over the Railroad Tracks or a Railroad Bridge over A-20?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ We used to have such a railroad crossing in the Dutch A2 too. Glad that one is removed, 160.000 AADT and a railroad crossing hno: 

I think a tunnel or bridge over the railroad is better than lifting the railroad, since trains need a hell of a ramp to go over a bridge.


----------



## wyqtor

Hmm, it looks like the signs are explained only in French.

Lately I have been searching for an online map, detailed and nicely colored like www.viamichelin.com, only for Canada & US. Does anyone know such a site?


----------



## sonysnob

Some new photos:

QEW:





























Highway 417:


----------



## mgk920

Also, anyone notice how similar Quebec's 'autoroute' route number signs are to USA 'interstate' route number signs?

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

wyqtor said:


> Lately I have been searching for an online map, detailed and nicely colored like www.viamichelin.com, only for Canada & US. Does anyone know such a site?


Viamichelin has the USA covered too. (i'm not sure about Canada).

Maybe something on Rand McNally or so?


----------



## TheCat

Viamichelin does cover Canada, but services like Google Maps and Live Maps have better (closer) zoom levels.


----------



## trainrover

DFM said:


> Why is the speed limit there only 100?


Because the world knows that N Americans are virtually incable of performing any form of
self-control.




TheCat said:


>


Praiseworthy? Or cussworthy? Little Céline just lost her two-year-old eyeball both suddenly and
supposedly mysteriously from her size-me-up drinking straw




wyqtor said:


> direction signs maybe somewhat clearer.
> 
> You're still doing great compared to the US, so don't worry


I reckon Quebec's road signage's the next best after American ones, I do, after criss-crossing
the continent several times behind the wheel . . . plus the state of emotional being you suggest
its readers take wouldn't stick, as you might become surprised just how much its own carefree
way of being would grow on you providing you be relaxed enough to let it




mgk920 said:


> it still has some annoying gaps (ie, a couple of gaps in the A-40, no connection to I-89 at
> the border with Vermont, A-50 between Montreal and the Ottawa-Hull area, etc).


You mean the A20, not the A40, no? Two's worth between Quebec City and Montreal ain't bad.
A40 and 417 basically already serve l'Outaouais with Montreal, hence your suggestion re. the
A50's plain useless.




AUchamps said:


> Are they ever gonna fix A-20 west of Montreal? Do like Texas and put in a
> Freeway/Frontage Road rebuild?


I hope they don't reconstruct your suggestion. Besides, there's a scheme paralleling the lengthy
suburban segment anywhere between eight or one kilometre away.

They're focussing on its Ville-Marie feeder, A720, whereat this subject might cause your jaw
to drop (I'm saying no more here about the Ville-Marie expressway) . . .




FM 2258 said:


> Those traffic lights look cool especially how the red lights look.


They're just renditioning Frenchie France's.




Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Besides, Quebec people want to be different from the rest of Canada?
> This would be an awesome start.


I'm glad somebody else is finally recognizing this no-brainer.




Alex Von Königsberg said:


> EU traffic signs are far superior to theAmerican ones
> simply because they don't contain any words, and therefore, can
> be understood by everyone


FACT: The only time N America experienced indisputably universal signage was the scheme
temporarily erected in the late 60s and early 70s in Expo 67, then Terre des hommes/Man and
His World -- the six-station overground metro of the extensive, outdoor themeland was
ditched the same time too.




wyqtor said:


> I have a question: what does text like "Exit only", "Merge right 2 lanes", etc.,
> which appears on signs in the US and the rest of Canada, look like in Québec?


Province is still going to be too cheap to embelish its exits into two-laners (not even a handful
exist here in Quebec). As for exit only, they've taken very much to making something
one-way whenever possible (there's _some_ relief, eh?)




AUchamps said:


> Besides the A-20 problems west of Montreal, is there a timeframe to fix this substandard
> section of A-20 east of Montreal? You know, either a bridge over the Railroad Tracks or
> a Railroad Bridge over A-20?


I forgot about this one (I thought it was the A10) :clown: :shifty: :clown:


----------



## trainrover

double post


----------



## wyqtor

^^ Wow, here's a guy who is angry that I have the audacity to consider France's signing superior to US & Canadian and he can't really take it, so he resorts to childish nonsense. I'm flattered how high you think of my humble opinions.

As for road signs, I already stated my reasoning. The main thing I do like about your roads is the yellow line in the middle as you can tell traffic directions more clearly. That's one thing superior to French Autoroutes.

I think you should really travel to other places than your continent, you will discover that at least your own lifestyle is not at all "carefree" as you claim, as your manner of writing betrays your underlying frustrations. I suggest Italy, Tyrol, Switzerland, Greece or Croatia for starters. Or maybe Hawaii a bit closer to your home.

I for one will visit the USA & Canada as soon as I will afford to, I am sure I find great things there too.


----------



## trainrover

^^ Angry? I'd been *laughing* my head off! And, no, I wasn't disputing your claim of French road signage being superior to N American ones -- I zero'ed in on your remark concerning clearer signage. Something about you's attracted to an emotional state of being, huh? "Angry", "frustration" hno:

There's still time for you yet, you'll grow up: You, you take the imperative tense with me, while the *lone* one I took up with you was the subjunctive one -- that's rude of you, unnecessarily presumptuous too, e.g., "lifestyle", "think you should really" hno:


*Audacious Lifestyle*

You, are you so audacious as to habitually (me, perpetually!) get half of the throng of your inbound metro wagon weekend nights laughing away at the blunt expressions you come out verbalizing for *all* your fellow passengers to here? No, I figured not.

You needn't touch upon any area regarding 'lifestyle' with me, little buddy.


----------



## geogregor

Instead of pointless discussion (especialy two posts above) can we get some more pictures and infos about Quebec freeways??


----------



## trainrover

^^ Hmmm, this response while s/he wishes to learn as much as possible about my jurisdiction's *crumbling* "freeway" (write "autoroute") "network": Where's your pointlessness in that, eh?

Seriously, Quebec's now got a long way to go to catch up. But something I heard on national radio getting ready for work yesterday morning does sound promising.

By the way, there are 137 autoroute under- and overpasses that need to be razed and rebuilt (yep). This news came out no more than a few weeks ago.

The promising report seemed to indicate Quebec's rethinking what'll consitute under/overpass replacements. Already, there's some South-shore overpass that's being rebuilt incorporating the following components:

re-bars fabricated out of some composite material that's supposedly five times stronger
fibre-optics lasory things cured right into the concrete to enable internal monitoring for preventive maintenance

There. Happy? coz I ain't 'til me electric trains appear on my scenes here . . .


----------



## wyqtor

OK, let's stop arguing, I agree it's not productive, it's just that I don't like it when my opinions are getting laughed at - especially when I am not joking. Still TBH I may have exaggerated a little, so I apologize for picking at your lifestyle Trainrover, actually now that I think about it must be pretty cool living in Québec. 

Anyway, are there any highways in or around Québec-City?


----------



## sonysnob

Route 175 in Quebec City. Not an autoroute, but it is at times a freeway:


----------



## trainrover

wyqtor said:


> OK, let's stop arguing, I agree it's not productive, it's just that I don't like it when my opinions are getting laughed at - especially when I am not joking. Still TBH I may have exaggerated a little, so I apologize for picking at your lifestyle Trainrover, actually now that I think about it must be pretty cool living in Québec.
> 
> Anyway, are there any highways in or around Québec-City?


My arguments amount to just teasing, really they do.

Quebec City opened up a new crosstown (or cross-suburban?) expressway earlier this summer. Yes, compared to Canadian cities, Quebec City's probably the most equipped with expressways (comparatively-speaking for its size, that is) -- uhm, I've not bothered looking it up on some online map yet.


----------



## trainrover

sonysnob said:


> Route 175 in Quebec City. Not an autoroute, but it is at times a freeway:


Then what on earth is that 'unclear' titular signage, happening to indicate to the photographer her/his snapping a shot of the Laurentian Autoroute (right-hand side, green signage as opposed to the blue autoroute type)?


----------



## sonysnob

trainrover said:


> Then what on earth is that 'unclear' titular signage, happening to indicate to the photographer her/his snapping a shot of the Laurentian Autoroute (right-hand side, green signage as opposed to the blue autoroute type)?


I shot the photo, and indicated not as an autoroute because it is designated as a 100-series route, and not as an autoroute proper. I would liken this to a US route being named as a freeway or expressway but not designated properly as an interstate.


----------



## trainrover

sonysnob said:


> it is designated as a 100-series route, and not as an autoroute proper.


It's labelled autoroute, plus essentially there's very little binding highway designations around the province here.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong:
200 series is for highways (predominantly) south of the St Lawrence River;
300, (predominantly) north;
while my guess ultimately about the 100 series is that its highways cross the river;
if the highway number odd, east-west;
even, north-south.


----------



## lambersart2005

*ok, here they are...;-)*

after a while, even I have understood how to upload pics here :banana: 
have fun!

voici, finalement, les photos du Québec :cheers: 



above: Autoroute Décarie A15 avant l'A40



above: encore, Autoroute Décarie A15, Ch. Queen Mary



above: la nuit à Montréal - A15



above: c'est large, large, large - A15 à Laval



above: Autoroute rurale - A410 à Sherbrooke



above: la neige éternelle - A15 à Laval

I hope you liked it!


----------



## sonysnob

Good photos


----------



## trainrover

Nice shots.



lambersart2005 said:


> above: encore, Autoroute Décarie A15, Ch. Queen Mary


Clarification: the Queen Mary Road on and off ramps, taken from avenue Dupuis.



lambersart2005 said:


> above: Autoroute rurale - A410 à Sherbrooke


Oh? A410? You mean the A10, no?


----------



## sonysnob

trainrover said:


> Clarification: the Queen Mary Road on and off ramps, taken from avenue Dupuis.


...but, the photo is looking at the Queen Mary Road overpass




trainrover said:


> Oh? A410? You mean the A10, no?


Nope, this is the western end of the 410 at the 10/55 interchange.


----------



## lambersart2005

well, actually trainrover was right, Ch. Queen Mary is further in the distance, it's just the off-ramps. But I think we don't have to be soooooo precise ;-) 

And, yes, indeed it was A-410. 


A 70 in the Saguenay area - le royaume du Saguenay  


A 70 shields - in my opinion, this québec signage is one of the worlds best designed!


dito


----------



## AUchamps

lambersart2005 said:


> well, actually trainrover was right, Ch. Queen Mary is further in the distance, it's just the off-ramps. But I think we don't have to be soooooo precise ;-)
> 
> And, yes, indeed it was A-410.
> 
> 
> A 70 in the Saguenay area - le royaume du Saguenay
> 
> 
> A 70 shields - in my opinion, this québec signage is one of the worlds best designed!
> 
> 
> dito


Are they ever gonna extend A-70 to the east or to the west over time? I could see it being a vital route over time for transnational truck traffic if A-70 is essentially made a more northernly alternative to having to take A-40 or A-20 to get through Quebec.


----------



## lambersart2005

A 70 is projected to be extended to Alma in the West and La Baie in the East. These should be the only reasonable extensions of this autoroute. 
I don't really see a A 70 as a relief for A40 or A20 or even national route even if you would build it more towards the West. Those areas after the Lac Saint Jean region are extremely sparsely populated or uninhabited areas - the Abitibi-Témiscamingue area is too far away to build an upgrade highway through the middle of nowwhere. 

And let's be honest, A40/ A20 is just crowded and congested in the Montréal and Québec metro-areas - interurban traffic is at an acceptable level, congestion being quite rare there. In my opinion, a better designed Boulevard Métropolitain (A40) in Montréal would solve MANY problems - longer acceleration lanes, widening of the lanes themselves (many trucks there!) - not necessariliy the number of lanes, the adjacent areas being densely populated. 

Another major bottleneck in the MTL-metro area - the A15 Décarie/ A40 junction, could easily be reajusted: Removal of the existing one-lane left-turn from A15 to A40 west and rebuild it as a two-lane direct ramp.


----------



## trainrover

lambersart2005 said:


> But I think we don't have to be soooooo precise ;-)


I feel better when I am.  Plus, Quebec and its immense legacy really needn't continue mis-documenting things about itself, e.g., all those historical photos captioned with unknown dates and unknown locations; especially more so, mon ami, when there's literally only one other N Am city that can outmatch Quebec's metropolis at being compact, so the two long blocks' worth of distance fits snugly into our necessity.

Neat, makes me wonder what other pair of autoroutes I might not have been aware about here . . .

I *really* like this shot -- you've just sold me a (sometime-in-the-future) trip by uploading the following one, you have (glorious illuminosity, love it -- I'm *so* anticipating the crisp, fresh air there!!!):


lambersart2005 said:


> A 70 in the Saguenay area - le royaume du Saguenay


----------



## lambersart2005

here do you go... the other direction of this icy freeway ;-) By the way, it was nice -17° when I took the photo. 




... image was taken on the A70 near Arvida.


----------



## AUchamps

lambersart2005 said:


> here do you go... the other direction of this icy freeway ;-) By the way, it was nice -17° when I took the photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... image was taken on the A70 near Arvida.


The more A-70 pics we can get on here, the better. There's always been something about that Autoroute that intrigued me, being way up there seperate from all the other Autoroutes and all.


----------



## algonquin

Im intruiged by the Chicoutimi area as well...


----------



## lambersart2005

yes, the North is really special. And always, I'm quite astonished that, when starting in Québec or Trois-Rivières, after such a long ride through nothing more than forests, lakes and mountains - and you think, ok, that was it with built-up areas, roads and city life - you arrive in the Saguenay area with its A70, Chicoutimi, shopping malls.... 

And I love the view in winter when you're approaching Chicoutimi seeing the snow-packed Monts-Valin in the background... reminds me of scenes in Alaska ;-)


----------



## lambersart2005

this thread reminded me of one pic I took in APR 2005 in Beijing - I was totally impressed when I was crossing this bridge.... 

Ring2 in the west :nuts:


----------



## jarbury

I thought the El Toro Y was the widest freeway in the world?

From Wikipedia:



> In 1993, the California Department of Transportation (CalTrans) began a massive expansion project, adding a new interchange at Bake Parkway, new collector/distributor lanes, truck bypasses, and new carpool lanes and connectors. The $166-million project also vastly increased regular traffic lanes. After the project was completed in 1997, the El Toro Y stood as one of the widest roads in the world, at 26 traffic lanes wide.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Those 26 lanes are including onramps, offramps, and merging lanes. I think to be frank, one should only count through lanes.


----------



## trainrover

Overpasses, bridges still under scrutiny

The Gazette 


Thursday, September 06, 2007


The province is still inspecting 115 of the 135 overpasses and bridges identified as problem structures in July, Transport Quebec says.

Of the 19 in Montreal, 12 are still under evaluation.

This morning, the department is to release a report on the inspections conducted so far. 

The special inspections were sparked by the Johnson commission, whose experts discovered serious construction and design flaws in the de la Concorde Blvd. overpass in Laval, which collapsed last September, killing five people.


----------



## algonquin

lambersart2005 said:


> yes, the North is really special. And always, I'm quite astonished that, when starting in Québec or Trois-Rivières, after such a long ride through nothing more than forests, lakes and mountains - and you think, ok, that was it with built-up areas, roads and city life - you arrive in the Saguenay area with its A70, Chicoutimi, shopping malls....
> 
> And I love the view in winter when you're approaching Chicoutimi seeing the snow-packed Monts-Valin in the background... reminds me of scenes in Alaska ;-)


Awesome.. now I'm even more intruiged!


----------



## -KwK345-

great prairie said:


> More pictures of "suburban sydney"


OMG I love those pictures!


----------



## lambersart2005

we should start a pilgrim tour to the great North :cheers: 

vive le grand Nord  !!!


----------



## sonysnob

TheCat said:


> Thanks for the pics, awesome highway! I see rumble strips in the second photo, a great safety feature. Is the speed limit 80km/h along the whole route? In that picture it makes sense, as the curves along the road seem to be quite sharp.


The speed limit is 90 at least as far north as Greenhill. There are some tight curves and the Queenston and King interchanges are pretty tight so an 80km/h limit wouldn't surprise me, through there. I think that big 80km/h sign is just for construction traffic.


----------



## sonysnob

go_leafs_go02 said:


> Can't wait to drive on the Red Hill. Shocking a nice highway. Hamilton surprises me that way, by actually doing a great job on expressways in design and upkeep, but the rest of the city's roads are a disgrace in many spots.


You're telling me.... I think the Mohawk / Garth intersection has singlehandedly destroyed the suspension on my old car...


----------



## kingsdl76

isaidso said:


> We all know about the LA freeway network. Save it for some other thread. Regarding population figures, you may have done some research regarding population of cities, *but you don't seem to have understood the relevance of population figures as it relates to highways. City population is irrelevant.* Freeways are built in response to metro areas, not city boundaries. A city population is absolutely pointless to bring up. A city population is merely a political jurisdiction and fails completely to take into account the actual number of people in an area. In many cities you can walk across the street and you are in another 'city'. I lived in downtown Montreal. The house 40 feet across from mine was in a different city. Are you trying to say the highway system is only used by people on one side of this city line? Ridiculous.
> 
> I've studied plenty. You've studied something, *but failed to understand what you were reading. Being in possession of facts is useless if you don't understand what they mean.*



What you're doing now is a classic knee jerk reaction because you're wrong. It was you that was confused in the first place, but instead of admitting that, you're attempting to change the nature of the topic as well as insult my intelligence by questioning my reading comprehension. If you look at my first post, I wrote that there are 2 CITIES in Canada that have a population of over a million people. Had I stated that there are only 2 METROPOLITAN AREAS, then you would be absolutely right. I understand the difference between a city and its metropolitan area....but I thank you for leaving the definition in your post. I'll admit that you're right concerning the definition of what a city/metropolitan area is....very good. Now if you want to expand the topic to urban infrastructure or highway construction as it relates to population then thats fine....but dont try to change the subject because you initially misunderstood my post. I stated a simple fact: There are only 2 CITIES in Canada with a population of more than 1 million people......thats it....but stating that in no way indicates that I dont understand the wider subject of population/metropolitan areas and highway construction as it relates to that.

Dont get so defensive over this issue....its not really a subject deserving of that. When one does, as you have, it makes one seem a little unnecessarily insecure.


----------



## Steeltown

It's interesting that there are 4 lanes south bound and only 2 lanes north bound for the Red Hill Expressway. Guess the city decided to put up 2 climbing lanes for the trucks.

Garth/Mohawk got fresh new asphalt this month.

Remember the Red Hill and the Linc took the city nearly 50 years to plan and design out so the city damn well better have built top notch expressways haha.

I just noticed it's 3 lanes for the north bound and 4 lanes for the south bound, extra lane for trucks to climb up.


----------



## isaidso

Regarding that photo of a new highway "just north of the Mud Street interchange": is that a Hamilton area highway? It looks great, but the curve seems to be fairly severe. This won't be a 100km/h zone, I take it.


----------



## Gil

Steeltown said:


> That would be the Mid Peninsula highway. During Mike Harris days the highway got a stamp of approval and even got money to build but Dalton McGunity got elected and he halted the highway idea with re-initiating yet another full environmental assessment, which is still currently taking place, been 4 years now. The Mid Peninsula highway idea has even reserved the name……Highway 408.
> 
> I think in 2008 we're suppose to get the complete environmental assessment and it'll be up to Dalton on what to do.


I don't know how entirely feasible this is, but I've always thought that the Mid-Peninsula should just continue where the Linc ends. Keeping with the name "Mid-Peninsula" it should end up at some extension of the 420/58 hook-up. The Greenbelt Act kinda makes crossings difficult.


----------



## TheCat

isaidso said:


> Regarding that photo of a new highway "just north of the Mud Street interchange": is that a Hamilton area highway? It looks great, but the curve seems to be fairly severe. This won't be a 100km/h zone, I take it.


Yeah, I noticed that too. There is an 80km/h sign there, which I think will be there to stay. And as a fellow forumer commented, the limit will probably be 90km/h, not 100.


----------



## rick1016

Great photos Scott, thanks!!


----------



## Steeltown

Gil said:


> I don't know how entirely feasible this is, but I've always thought that the Mid-Peninsula should just continue where the Linc ends. Keeping with the name "Mid-Peninsula" it should end up at some extension of the 420/58 hook-up. The Greenbelt Act kinda makes crossings difficult.


The whole plan really is to connect the Niagara region to Hamilton's Airport and connect Hamilton Airport to Halton. If the Mid Penisula highway connects along with the Linc it won't be near Hamilton Airport.


----------



## Steeltown

TheCat said:


> Yeah, I noticed that too. There is an 80km/h sign there, which I think will be there to stay. And as a fellow forumer commented, the limit will probably be 90km/h, not 100.


The speed limit for the Linc is 90km/h so the Red Hill Expressway will likely be 90km/h as well. But really everyone drives 100km/h on the Linc, I've yet seen a police car patrolling the speed limit on the Linc.


----------



## sonysnob

Steeltown said:


> The whole plan really is to connect the Niagara region to Hamilton's Airport and connect Hamilton Airport to Halton. If the Mid Penisula highway connects along with the Linc it won't be near Hamilton Airport.


It would be nice to see a new highway from the top of the Red Hill connecting to Highway 6 right where the Highway 6, Hamilton By-pass ties in. This would divert pretty much all truck traffic off of Upper James Street. Furthermore, though this is a pipe dream as well, I'd love to see Upper James Street receive a 6B designation


----------



## Steeltown

Here's a brid eye view of the Red Hill......


----------



## go_leafs_go02

My house backs onto the linc... one of my housemates got a radar gun, so we spent an evening sitting on top of the retaining wall measuring speed.

Actually average speed is 105-110 on there.

Fastest we caught was 126. 

It was night, and travel levels were somewhat low.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't think you even get an average of 110 on a German Autobahn...


----------



## go_leafs_go02

Chriszwolle said:


> I don't think you even get an average of 110 on a German Autobahn...


speed limit is 90 km/h, so 110 is 20 above. 

17-20 km/h above the speedlimit is where the cops will start pulling you over.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Oh ok, i thought you meant 110 MPH :lol:


----------



## TheCat

Chriszwolle said:


> Oh ok, i thought you meant 110 MPH :lol:


No man, Canadians use kilometres :cheers:


----------



## kingsdl76

TheCat said:


> No man, *Canadians use kilometres *:cheers:


Yes Canada does....just like the rest of the world...and just like the US should!!!!!


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

^^ Amen


----------



## noob(but not really)

kingsdl76 said:


> Yes Canada does....just like the rest of the world...and just like the US should!!!!!


I don't think they should.


----------



## rick1016

kingsdl76 said:


> Yes Canada does....just like the rest of the world...and just like the US should!!!!!


Do you have any idea what it would be like getting 300 million people to suddenly switch units?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, it's not like it's Germany having miles in within the European sea of kilometers. I don't see too much problems the US having another system. There are more systems, i heard the Koreans also have another unit system.


----------



## taiwanesedrummer36

kingsdl76 said:


> Yes Canada does....just like the rest of the world...and just like the US should!!!!!


Crazy Canadians.....hno:........


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

US Customary system sucks!  Canadians switched and now live like the rest of the civilised world. The fact is that in the time of globalisation, the rest of the world will never adopt an archaic system, so it is the USA that will need to switch to metric if it wants to succeed in global trade.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think asking that is the same as asking the Americans to adopt the Euro


----------



## Steeltown




----------



## ycats

Dont we call them highways in Canada? Freeways is what they call them in the States.


----------



## noob(but not really)

As a Canadian(born and raised), the only thing I use the metric system for is kilometres and and anything with the suffix _litres_.

Anyone have a map of Red Hill?


----------



## Steeltown

I'll try and find a map of the Red Hill Expressway.

The expressway, erm parkway (nobody here calls it parkway) will open on Monday but the MTO is behind schedule and therefore drivers won't be able to enter onto the Red Hill from Toronto bound traffic, which was the only thing that MTO was responsible for and they couldn’t even do it on schedule, it was only planned out for 50 YEARS jeez. Seems like MTO is always behind. It'll be like that for about a year.


----------



## Steeltown

Here’s a map! Its back when Hamilton just amalgamated that’s why you see the old logo “The New City of Hamilton”. Plus on this map you can see why it's named Red Hill Valley Parkway, it's built next to the Red Hill Creek.


----------



## sonysnob

Steeltown said:


> I'll try and find a map of the Red Hill Expressway.
> 
> The expressway, erm parkway (nobody here calls it parkway) will open on Monday but the MTO is behind schedule and therefore drivers won't be able to enter onto the Red Hill from Toronto bound traffic, which was the only thing that MTO was responsible for and they couldn’t even do it on schedule, it was only planned out for 50 YEARS jeez. Seems like MTO is always behind. It'll be like that for about a year.


are they behind schedule or was that just how the burlington street interchange construction was staged?


----------



## Xusein

kingsdl76 said:


> Yes Canada does....just like the rest of the world...and just like the US should!!!!!


The US is gradually moving to Metric. 

I rarely actually customary that much, only when I have to.

Almost every unit is measured in metric alongside the customary units these days. We do use it more than people think. Hell, if you talk about feet or yards or pounds in the science field, everyone will laugh at you! :lol:


----------



## Steeltown

MTO is a year behind schedule because they haven't finished the new Burlington Street and Woodward Avenue bridges. They still need to remove the old Burlington Street bridge. At the same time they'll be building a new pedestrian bridge to link the Red Hill trail to the waterfront trail.

Rendering of the bridge


----------



## KGB

The 427 can take on 401 type proportions as well...it's not very long, but it always struck me as feeling as "big" as the 401.










KGB


----------



## TheCat

^^ Well, you are correct, even though it's not exactly as wide, I think it is the only other 400-series highway with a collector-express system.


----------



## Steeltown

*Red Hill Valley Parkway debuts*
November 04, 2007 

Thousands of runners marked the official opening of the Red Hill Valley Parkway this weekend. 

After the Road to Hope race Saturday morning, about 150 people gathered at the Red Hill Bowl to mark the road’s competition after 50 years of debate. 

“There were moments when we wondered if we would ever have this day,” said Chris Murray, who managed the parkway’s construction. 

“It’s hard to believe it’s over.”

The controversial four-lane parkway, which cost $225 million to build, will open to vehicle traffic on Nov. 16. 

Only three protesters were visible at yesterday’s event, which was well attended by local dignitaries and politicians. Among those in attendance were former mayors Jack MacDonald, Larry Di Ianni and Bob Morrow, local MPPs and MPs, former Lieutenant-Governor Lincoln Alexander, current and former city councillors and dozens of city staff. 

The second half of the Road to Hope marathon takes place today.


----------



## noob(but not really)

Metric system is wack. You talk to me about kilograms and metres, and I will laugh at you! 



Steeltown said:


> Here’s a map! Its back when Hamilton just amalgamated that’s why you see the old logo “The New City of Hamilton”. Plus on this map you can see why it's named Red Hill Valley Parkway, it's built next to the Red Hill Creek.


Thanks for that map. Honestly, it looks worse than Black Creek Dr. They built it on parkland?


----------



## LordMandeep

> Black Creek Dr.


that is one pointless road...


express route from the 401 to heart of Weston... :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

noob(but not really) said:


> Metric system is wack. You talk to me about kilograms and metres, and I will laugh at you!


Not so much. 

One kilometer = 1000 meters

One mile = 5,280 feet or 63,360 inches

now what makes sense? :nuts:


----------



## Steeltown

noob(but not really) said:


> Thanks for that map. Honestly, it looks worse than Black Creek Dr. They built it on parkland?


Remember this expressway has been planned for nearly 50 years so yea guess it's on parkland as the city allowed no development on the land since the original plan. 

The goal of the Red Hill Expressway is to take trucks off local roads, have more industrial parks near Mud St (Glanbrook Industrial Park), redevelop the inner city (Centre Mall redevelopment - retail development mostly), develop a new Red Hill trail, relocating existing landfill sites, to clean up the Harbour from realigning the creek and most importantly to improve the Red Hill Creek, the project is North America’s longest, continuous creek restoration project in an urban setting. A lot of drivers will be taking the Red Hill expressway as a short cut instead of going on the Skyway Bridge towards London/Windsor they can take Red Hill/Linc and on the 403, save time.

The entire cost of the expressway is about half a billion dollars, the most expensive expressway yet. About half of the cost went into improving the environment of the Red Hill Creek Valley.

You can read all about the history, details and environmental improvements made to the Red Hill Valley here:
http://www.hamiltonmarathon.ca/red hill files/RedHillValleyProject[1].pdf


----------



## TheCat

Chriszwolle said:


> Not so much.
> 
> One kilometer = 1000 meters
> 
> One mile = 5,280 feet or 63,360 inches
> 
> now what makes sense? :nuts:


Forget it, some people just don't get it, logical arguments don't seem to work  What I do find strange in his comment, is that according to his profile, he lives in Canada, a country that has been using the metric system for a long time.


----------



## sonysnob

a new Highway 401 photo:


----------



## Xusein

Holy Shit. This is the interchange with the 400, right...


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

noob(but not really) said:


> Metric system is wack. You talk to me about kilograms and metres, and I will laugh at you!


I feel sorry for you, man. All the exit signs in Canada (at least in BC) tell the distance in metres, so you would have a hard time driving there. Hold on, you are from Canada! :bash: 

Also, as far as I have seen, deli products are sold in grammes ($/100g). Do their scales have lbs or oz as well to accommodate your needs? hno: :lol:


----------



## TheCat

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> I feel sorry for you, man. All the exit signs in Canada (at least in BC) tell the distance in metres, so you would have a hard time driving there. Hold on, you are from Canada! :bash:
> 
> Also, as far as I have seen, deli products are sold in grammes ($/100g). Do their scales have lbs or oz as well to accommodate your needs? hno: :lol:


Metric is used everywhere in Canada, not just in BC. But in stores fruits and vegetables are still sold primarily in pounds. Most supermarkets post both the price per pound and per kilogram, but the pound is still written in bigger font and is used more. Meat is sold in grams, at least when I buy it. People also still quote their weight and height in pounds and feet/inches, although for me it is easier and more natural to use kilograms and centimetres, because I was not born in Canada and am more comfortable with metric. But Canadians born here seem to still be more accustomed to the Imperial system in everyday life.

Official documentation, however, uses the metric system. For example, on my driver's license, my height is written in centimetres.


----------



## noob(but not really)

LordMandeep said:


> that is one pointless road...
> 
> 
> express route from the 401 to heart of Weston... :lol:


LOL! In its current state, it is 100% pointless. It was supposed to connect to the Gardiner. We are stuck with it now, so we might as well extend it.





Steeltown said:


> Remember this expressway has been planned for nearly 50 years so yea guess it's on parkland as the city allowed no development on the land since the original plan.
> 
> The goal of the Red Hill Expressway is to take trucks off local roads, have more industrial parks near Mud St (Glanbrook Industrial Park), redevelop the inner city (Centre Mall redevelopment - retail development mostly), develop a new Red Hill trail, relocating existing landfill sites, to clean up the Harbour from realigning the creek and most importantly to improve the Red Hill Creek, the project is North America’s longest, continuous creek restoration project in an urban setting. A lot of drivers will be taking the Red Hill expressway as a short cut instead of going on the Skyway Bridge towards London/Windsor they can take Red Hill/Linc and on the 403, save time.
> 
> The entire cost of the expressway is about half a billion dollars, the most expensive expressway yet. About half of the cost went into improving the environment of the Red Hill Creek Valley.
> 
> You can read all about the history, details and environmental improvements made to the Red Hill Valley here:
> http://www.hamiltonmarathon.ca/red hill files/RedHillValleyProject[1].pdf


That was a good PDF. Although, they could've just done the creek restoration on its own, assuming they planned the expwy network better back in the day. :|





Chriszwolle said:


> Not so much.
> 
> One kilometer = 1000 meters
> 
> One mile = 5,280 feet or 63,360 inches
> 
> now what makes sense? :nuts:





TheCat said:


> Forget it, some people just don't get it, logical arguments don't seem to work  What I do find strange in his comment, is that according to his profile, he lives in Canada, a country that has been using the metric system for a long time.





Alex Von Königsberg said:


> I feel sorry for you, man. All the exit signs in Canada (at least in BC) tell the distance in metres, so you would have a hard time driving there. Hold on, you are from Canada! :bash:
> 
> Also, as far as I have seen, deli products are sold in grammes ($/100g). Do their scales have lbs or oz as well to accommodate your needs? hno: :lol:


I actually use both systems, and so do most Canadians. For example, why use miles when you have kilometres? It also wouldn't make much sense to use yards when you have metres. However, when you need to use a smaller unit, you wouldn't use decimetres :nuts: you'd use feet. This is the key area that the metric system is totally flawed in. And it is no wonder that feet and inches are used on floorplans in Canada. No way I'm using metres when the room is 10' x 10'. 3.3 or whatever it is just doesn't sound right.

Also, professional sports leagues in North America use the imperial system.





TheCat said:


> People also still quote their weight and height in pounds and feet/inches, although for me it is easier and more natural to use kilograms and centimetres, because I was not born in Canada and am more comfortable with metric. But Canadians born here seem to still be more accustomed to the Imperial system in everyday life.


I can't imagine using the metric system for my weight/height. That's just too weird.


----------



## sonysnob

TenRot said:


> Holy Shit. This is the interchange with the 400, right...


Thats right.

The current form of the 400/401 interchange was completed in 1965-66. While this interchange may not be as impressive as some of Toronto's newer offerings, for its day it was really something.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

noob(but not really) said:


> However, when you need to use a smaller unit, you wouldn't use decimetres :nuts: you'd use feet. This is the key area that the metric system is totally flawed in. And it is no wonder that feet and inches are used on floorplans in Canada. No way I'm using metres when the room is 10' x 10'. 3.3 or whatever it is just doesn't sound right.


Doesn't sound right to you. For those poor bastards who only know "flawed" metric system 3.30m sounds ok 

You know, the argument that the Imperial system feels more 'human' is not uncommon in this kind of discussions. I can say that metric system is not less human than the Imperial one - not if you learn it since your early childhood. I can perfectly feel 10cm, 20cm, and so on. I can show you 30cm pretty accurately, but I don't feel a foot. Neither do I feel inches, ounces and gallons. 

What they did in Canada was smart: since people were used to quarts and gallons, they just replaced them with 1 litre and 4 litres respectively, because even the most hardcore Imperial fans will not notice a significant difference.


----------



## noob(but not really)

Stop trying to force it on me. I really couldn't care less how you "feel" measurements, I am not "feeling" the metric system. I was "taught" the system from elementary school, I just can't use it for everything - the majority of Canadians are like that, but you wouldn't understand because you're from Europe.


----------



## rick1016

I bet he tries to force it on Americans everyday!! :lol::lol:

EDIT: The Metric system does make a lot more sense, but I still use feet and inches and pounds for my body measurements.


----------



## go_leafs_go02

same. 

I have no clue how many kg i weigh, or how many metres I am in height.

Still I'm hoping for conversion to metric by the Americans, it'll make things so much easier for everyone in the end.


----------



## noob(but not really)

I would hate to see it go though. This sort of change would take several generations, and it wouldn't be easy to get everyone on board.

Canada is essentially a mix of America and Europe. We are bilingual, there's no reason we can't have two systems(we kinda do already).


----------



## Steeltown

Here's a video link of the Red Hill Creek Expressway ceremony.

http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/video2/redhillopening.html


----------



## Grey Towers

Measurements in Canada are a crazy mishmash, but comfortable for those of us who have grown up with them. Officially, we use kilometres for travelling distances and speeds, litres for liquids, and feet, inches, and pounds (but grams, not ounces) for measurements such as body weight and height. I have never heard a criminal suspect described as about 175 centimetres and 80 kilograms.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

So, if someone who has no idea about the old Imperial system moves to Canada, will this person be able to live comfortably using only metric system? When I visited British Canada recently, the only old units I noticed were pounds for fruits and vegetables and only in some small shops.


----------



## KGB

> So, if someone who has no idea about the old Imperial system moves to Canada, will this person be able to live comfortably using only metric system?



Absolutely. The metric system is pretty well entrenched enough that a metric-only person would not have much trouble. "officially" that is...in terms of personal "social" contact, it would depend on who you were talking to.

The funny thing with measurements, is that at some point, it is very difficult (or impossible) to "see" things any different than what your mind has accustomed itself to at some point in your life.

We tried going "cold turkey" metric, but I guess there are enough "old timers" still pure imperial that it kind of had a bit of a back-lash in certain things, so we kind of relapsed into imperial _and_ metric for certain things.

I guess we will just have to wait a while longer for the ole timers to die off. he he





KGB


----------



## Daguy

^^

I agree. The only that a person coming here needs to know is how to give his or her weight in pounds. Almost nobody weighs themselves in kgs here.

It's nothing personal to Americans but we need to go with the times. There are only 3 countries left in the world who havn't convereted to the metric, and at a minimum people should know how to convert between the two.


----------



## noob(but not really)

KGB said:


> I guess we will just have to wait a while longer for the ole timers to die off. he he


I wont go _that_ easily


----------



## go_leafs_go02

the only way Canadians will go fully metric in their thinking is if our neighbours go metric (being Americans)

They influence us, and many industries still use imperial, particularly architectural. I take CAD courses at a Canadian college and EVERYTHING we do is in architectural. Haven't touched metric.

I wish imperial would disappear, but it's not going anywhere.


----------



## noob(but not really)

^^That's actually why I don't like metric. And it's scary that we'll be using it one day for that.


----------



## Steeltown

RED HILL VALLEY PARKWAY
*Honking procession of cars opens Red Hill Parkway this morning*









Opening of the Red Hill Valley Parkway Saturday morning in the north bound lanes at Dartnall Rd. On hand in the first spot with his yellow corvette was Tim Chapman.Waiting also were David Street with a '76 Monte Carlo and 1930 Model A Roadster owner Bill Hendry. Here, a small crowd waited and waves from an overpass. PHOTO BY: Ron Albertson, 

November 17, 2007 
Rachel De Lazzer
The Hamilton Spectator

Cars were lined up all the way this morning at Dartnell Rd. and the Lincoln Alexander Parkway, eagerly awaiting the opening of the Red Hill Valley Parkway at 7:30 a.m. Led by a yellow Corvette, the first pack of cars made their way down the winding highway, waving and honking at city workers and the mayor who gathered on the Lawrence Ave. bridge at Mount Albion Rd. to celebrate the opening. 

It wasn't long before the party on the bridge saw one police cruiser chase a Smart car that whisked by a little too quickly. By mid-morning, police had already laid at least three charges with the highest speed at 122 km/h, said Const. Bob McKinlay. 

"The one doing 122 didn't even know what the speed limit was on the expressway," said Const. Wes Wilson.

The parkway's speed limit is 90 km/h. 

Watching the first drivers cruise under the Lawrence bridge, Mayor Fred Eisenberger said he was glad to see opening day arrive. He said he is looking forward to the business opportunities the parkway will bring to the city. 

"There's lots of other things we need to do. This has prevented a lot of other things from happening environmentally and economically."


----------



## go_leafs_go02

I drove down the mud street interchange last night around 2 AM...hoping was open..but it wasn't..if i had my own car..i would have parked and waited..

but alas....I don't.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A map with the Red Hill Valley Parkway i made, i think it's about right.


----------



## go_leafs_go02

drove on it today..got someone to take a vid of the whole thing..but yeah...not that great 

but the road is fantastic..really great drive!


----------



## rick1016

Are the two points where is starts and ends?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, according to Wikipedia.


----------



## Steeltown

Yes, but really the Red Hill Valley Parkway is an extension of the Linc from 403 and now to QEW. The city was considering naming the Red Hill Valley Parkway to the Linc instead.


----------



## rick1016

What's the Linc? The Lincoln Alexander Parkway?


----------



## Steeltown

Oh yes sorry. Everyone here calls the Lincoln Alexander Expressway as the Linc. I've yet met a person that calls either the Linc or the Red Hill as "Parkway" it's always Expressway.


----------



## rick1016

Oh ok my bad. I'm not from Hamilton so I don't know these things...haha.


----------



## rick1016

Wait...so if it's just an extension why didn't they just name it the Lincoln Alexander for the remainder?


----------



## Steeltown

Well building the Linc was pretty simple and didn't get much opposition, I remember the days when I was a kid I would play along where the Linc is now located. The area used to be a field, no development was allowed on that stretch of land for over 50 years. 

But the second phase of North/South extension of the Linc was very controversial, as it would go along a park and a creek, hence why it's called Red Hill CREEK Parkway. But the creek was routed man-made so during the construction of the expressway the city restored the creek back to its natural route. Opposition stalled the expressway for years and Bob Rae killed provincial funding during the time when the Linc was about to be built. After a few years Mike Harris announced during the opening of the Linc that they would restore the funding and now the Red Hill is built so that's why you have two expressways built at a different time, was suppose to be built at the same time and opened at the same time. If that happened then the name of Red Hill Creek Parkway would have likely just been named the Linc as well.

Remember the whole process of building this North/South extension was rooted back for nearly 50 years. Jack McDonald was Mayor at the time and he's now in his 80's but was lucky enough to live long enough to see the Red Hill built and open. When he dies he wants his ashes spread around the Red Hill.


----------



## xzmattzx

rick1016 said:


> What's the Linc? The Lincoln Alexander Parkway?


It's also Lincoln Financial Field.


----------



## sonysnob

Hwy 401/400 interchange:


----------



## Nexis

wow that 401 highway is huge!


----------



## TheCat

I found this pretty nice video of someone driving on the Gardiner Expressway in downtown Toronto, and also a little bit on Toronto streets (downtown):


----------



## sonysnob

Neat video. Have you ever come across one of the Gardiner at night? Thats one of my favourite Ontario drives.


----------



## algonquin

Big Bad 401


----------



## TheCat

Another really nice video I think. A ride on the Don Valley Parkway into downtown Toronto (from the northeast), and then a drive through some streets in downtown, both large and small:








sonysnob said:


> Neat video. Have you ever come across one of the Gardiner at night? Thats one of my favourite Ontario drives.


Yeah, the night drive on the Gardiner is really nice, but unfortunately there aren't good videos on Youtube. There is one which follows in this post, but you can't really see the downtown much because of the camera quality:






I hope to buy a camcorder in the summer and try to make some Toronto driving videos by myself, together with some friends. I will post them if I get to them


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That 1st video is cool, but a bit too fast, you can't really look at the skyline so fast. I have some experience taking video's while driving myself. My 38 road video's


----------



## TheCat

Chriszwolle said:


> That 1st video is cool, but a bit too fast, you can't really look at the skyline so fast. I have some experience taking video's while driving myself. My 38 road video's


I know, I am subscribed to your channel (Kot1234) .


----------



## rick1016

Cool videos. I'll have to make some myself.


----------



## TheCat

I have a question that just came up when I was responding regarding a related topic to a person in another forum. Why is the leftmost line of the collectors on the 401 yellow, and not white? After all, it separates traffic flowing into the same direction, technically  The same also happens on on-ramps, where the line to the left of you is often yellow until you reach the start of the acceleration lane, when it becomes white. Just wondering


----------



## canadave87

I think it's because a solid yellow line means "do not cross under any circumstances", technically. It's the edge of that particular part of the roadway, so you don't cross it... that's my best explanation, though I'm sure there's someone here who knows better.


----------



## sonysnob

^ Its an interesting question. I don't know why they use yellow, but it seems to be the most logical choice since it does mark the left edge of a traveled roadway. Sort of on topic, in Ontario, a vehicle is allowed to cross a solid yellow line. a double yellow line for example means passing is not recommended, but not illegal.


----------



## TheCat

^^ That's interesting, because the driver's handbook simply says "it is not safe to pass", and "A should not pass" (referring to a vehicle "A" on a picture). This is one thing that I find strange in Ontario (and probably the rest of North America) in general - the rules of the road, as taught to new drivers, are somewhat informal and incomplete.

For example, the driver's handbook, in the section about traffic signs, starts by saying something like "these are some of the signs you will encounter on Ontario roads". I have actually encountered signs on the road (cannot recall exactly which at this point) that I have not seen before in my life (even though the picture on them was quite self-explanatory).

Also, right-of-way is not explained, nor indicated (on the road) very clearly in North America. For example, technically, if one comes to a stop sign without the words "all way" (or a variation) underneath, one needs to assume that cross traffic does not have a stop sign. However, I've encountered many situations (especially in some large shopping areas) where all intersecting roads have a stop sign, even though "all way" is missing. It takes some time to recognize the other stop signs by seeing them directly. Also, just to be safe I guess, the driver's handbook mentions that in the absence of any regulation, the vehicle on the right goes first. However, most intersections are controlled (which is a good thing), but you can never be 100% sure that if you are approaching an intersection where you don't have any signs or traffic lights, the cross traffic does (i.e. a stop or yield sign). The general assumption is that it does, and therefore one just speeds through the intersection.

This is not necessarily a very bad thing, but just an observation that I made. In contrast, I've seen the equivalent to the "driver's handbook" in Israel, and I assume Europe is similar, and they actually give each traffic sign a specific ID. The rules are described in a very formal and precise way. For example, "When you see this sign, you have to do X, unless specified otherwise by sign B-12, or unless sign C-17 is present, in which case you have to do Y."

I guess it all comes down to common sense, but I do sometimes find that there is a lack of formality and precision when it comes to traffic rules in Ontario. Part of the reason is a partial lack of standardization and the use of arbitrary textual signs, which are prevalent in North America.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

TheCat said:


> I've encountered many situations (especially in some large shopping areas) where all intersecting roads have a stop sign, even though "all way" is missing. It takes some time to recognize the other stop signs by seeing them directly. ... you can never be 100% sure that if you are approaching an intersection where you don't have any signs or traffic lights, the cross traffic does (i.e. a stop or yield sign). The general assumption is that it does, and therefore one just speeds through the intersection.


Yes, in my opinion, the biggest disadvantage of North American traffic rules is that the main road is neither defined nor marked by the appropriate signs. In most of European countries, *yield* and *main road* signs are often used as a pair to ensure the safe and smooth traffic flow through the intersection. In America, on the other hand, the absence of any sign in 95% indicates that the crossing road has STOP signs, so indeed one can speed up through the intersection. I tell you, it makes me confused for the first couple of days when I drive in Europe after America.


----------



## gugasounds

A question:
The speed limit in ontario is?


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

gugasounds said:


> A question:
> The speed limit in ontario is?


100 km/h on motorways, 40-60 km/h in urban areas, 70-90 km/h on extra-urban carriageways and expressways.


----------



## TheCat

Yet another nice Youtube video that I found. This one is pretty unique, and is a fast-forward slideshow of the drive from Toronto to Ottawa (Canada's capital, for those who don't know ).

In particular, it shows a very large stretch of the "famous" *Highway 401*  Toward the end, one can also see *Highway 416*, a ~70km motorway that connects Highway 401 to Highway 417 near Ottawa.


----------



## sonysnob

Some new TCH pics


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Sweet! kay: Every time I had to cross the border to the Sud, I became depressed :lol:


----------



## Verso

Extremely beautiful!  What's the lowest AADT figure on the TCH?


----------



## Sphynx

While we're at it... some pics of the Trans-Canada, Hwy 1, throught the Rocky Mountains...


----------



## sohail style

Sphynx said:


> While we're at it... some pics of the Trans-Canada, Hwy 1, throught the Rocky Mountains...
> 
> *Please do not quote all pics while they are right above your post*


Wow, amazing shots.


----------



## sonysnob

That new park bridge is unbelievable.


----------



## Billpa

Don't normally see much from New Brunswick on here...that's nice to see.
That PEI route sign is a little small for my tastes but still a lovely place.


----------



## Nikkodemo

Incredible pics!!!

I like this highway!!!

Greetings from Mexico.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Many sources, including wikipedia, are quoting that Canada has over 17.000 kilometers of motorway-grade roads. I always doubted that, and with my new road atlas that has been shipped today to my home, i calculated the freeways. Given the fact that the atlas is not extremely detailed, i'll maintain an error margin of 100km.



Code:


[B]British Columbia[/B]

Road 1	Horseshoe Bay – Hope				168km
Road 1	Victoria – Langford					14km
Road 5	Hope – Kamloops					219km
Road 19	Parksville - Dunsmuir				29km
Road 91	Alluvia – Richmond					23km
Road 97	Kelowna – Merritt					81km
Road 99	White Rock – Richmond				41km
									575km

[B]Alberta[/B]

Road 1	Banff -  Calgary					100km
Road 2	Calgary – Edmonton				325km
Road 14	Edmonton Beltway					29km
Road 15	Edmonton – Sherwood Park			22km
Road 16	Wabamun – Edmonton				43km
									519km

[B]Saskatchewan[/B]
Road 1	Regina						8km
Road 6	Regina						11km
Road 11	Saskatoon						12km
Road 11	Regina						10km
Circle Dr	Saskatoon						4km
									45km

[B]Manitoba[/B]

Road 204	Winnipeg						8km
									8km

[B]Ontario[/B]
Road 1	Sudbury – Whitefish					32km
Road 8	Preston – Kitchener					17km
Road 11	Barrie – North Bay					162km
Road 22	Windsor						10km
Road 115	Peterborough					21km
Road 400	Toronto – Parry Sound				204km
Road 401	Windsor – Lancaster				838km
Road 402	Sarnia – London					103km
Road 403 	Woodstock – Burlington				100km
Road 403	Missisauga						16km
Road 404	Toronto – Newmarket				47km
Road 406	Saint Catharines					8km
Road 407	Burlington – Markham				92km
Road 409	Toronto						5km
Road 410	Toronto – Brampton					13km
Road 416	Prescott – Ottawa					90km
Road 417	Ottawa – Saint Eugene				138km
Road 427	Toronto						19km
QEW		Fort Erie – Toronto					153km
Lincoln Pkwy	Hamilton						8km
									1915km

[B]Québec[/B]
A5		Gatineau – Wakefield				16km
A10		Magog – Montreal					140km
A15		Montreal – Sainte Agathe des Monts		152km
A19		Laval							3km
A20		Riviere Beaudette – Cacouna			468km
A25		Longueuil – Sainte Jacques			38km
A30		Chateauguay	- Bécancour				122km
A31		Lavaltrie – Joliette					154km
A40		Saint Clet – Québec					388km
A50		St Jerome – Brownsburg				29km
A50		Gatineau						34km
A55		Stanstead – Grand-Mere				209km
A70		Saguenay						26km
A73		Quebec – St Joseph				65km
A132		Rimouski						29km
A410		Sherbrooke						10km
A440		Laval – Montreal					5km
A440		Quebec						12km
A520		Montreal						5km
A540		Quebec						3km
A573		Quebec						6km
A640		Oka – Charlemagne					55km
A720		Montreal						5km
A740		Quebec						5km
									1839km

[B]New Brunswick[/B]
Route 1	Lepreau – Salisbury					150km
Route 2	Madawaska – Grand Falls				68km
Route 2	Woodstock – Sackville				298km
Route 7	Fredericton						5km
Route 8	Fredericton						9km
Route 8	Bathurst						18km
Route 11	Shediac						7km
Route 15	Dieppe – Shediac					11km
									566km

[B]Nova Scotia[/B]
Road 101	Halifax – Brooklyn					42km
Road 102	Halifax – Truro					85km
Road 104	Amherst – New Glasgow				180km
Road 106	Westville – Pictou					11km
Road 111	Dartmouth						9km
Road 118	Dartmouth – Fall River				14km
									341km

*Total: 5808km*

I have to add, the fact that many western provinces include a lot of major, 4 lane highways. Those are not grade-separated, and can therefore not be counted as motorway-grade road, which absolutely requires grade-separated junctions. That is the only thing that's missing on those highways, since they also have a hard shoulder. 

I'll probably take the heat now from Canadian forumers


----------



## TheCat

^^ Actually, that looks right  It's the case with many countries though. For example, Russia claims to have something like 20,000 km of expressway, and I wonder if they even have 20% of that. But 17,000 km does look way too much for Canada. I think it might also include the entire Trans-Canada (I'm not sure though), and possibly 2-lane freeways (i.e. 2-lane roads without at-grade intersections - there are several roads like this in Ontario, not sure about other provinces).

Btw I think you forgot about Red Hill Valley Parkway in Hamilton, Ontario


----------



## sonysnob

^ wow


----------



## Bartolo

where is that, I know its the 407, but whats the other highway, is it 404 or 410

edit: it is the 404


----------



## LordMandeep

the 400 and 407 is a full four level interchange.

The interchange takes up a ridiculous amount of area...


----------



## Bartolo

And they were supposed to make the interchanges with the 404 and the 410 stacks as well


----------



## sonysnob

I saw a map once of an early proposal of the 401/407 interchange in Mississagua. It was pretty funky, servicing Ninth Line, and it seemed to lend itself for a northerly extension along Brampton's Western Boundary.


----------



## Xelebes

Scary crash on the Yellowhead today. An 18-wheeler going the wrong direction for 20 some km hits a guard rail and flips over onto train tracks and explodes into a giant ball of fire. Right out of a movie.


----------



## Timon91

^^Indeed, scary


----------



## Schweden

^^ Man... Wow. That's scary.


----------



## Xelebes

That crash happened 3 blocks away from my old bus stop too.

In happier, but still strressful news, 23rd Ave overpass over Gateway Boulevard/Calgary Trail (aka QEII Highway) begins construction, which will see a bottlenecks happen. This intersection is one of the busiest in Edmonton, seeing 120 000 vehicles a day.


----------



## Skybean

source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2390817987


----------



## bgplayer19

Guys is it true that they plan to demolish the Gardiner Expressway and do an underground motorway?When I went in Toronto in the summer my uncle told me that!I was really surprised because i don't see what's wrong with the Gardiner Expressway!Anyway have you posted any pics of the motorway to Sarnia and the US border there?


----------



## sonysnob

*Gardiner Expressway*


----------



## bgplayer19

The best view of the CN Tower from a car is the Gardiner Expressway :lol:


----------



## TheCat

bgplayer19 said:


> Guys is it true that they plan to demolish the Gardiner Expressway and do an underground motorway?When I went in Toronto in the summer my uncle told me that!I was really surprised because i don't see what's wrong with the Gardiner Expressway!Anyway have you posted any pics of the motorway to Sarnia and the US border there?


Frankly, I agree with you, and think that the so-called "Gardiner barrier" concept is greatly exaggerated, and is nothing compared to the massive railway that passes just a little north of it, with its giant and ugly underpasses.

However, aesthetics aside, the Gardiner has a lot of technical problems. It is quite old, and (in my opinion) wasn't constructed very well, or at least wasn't maintained very well. As a result, from time to time there are small chunks of it that fall off, and apparently it has lots of structural problems. If not completely rebuilt, it at least should be heavily renovated/reconstructed.

Of course, having a tunnel instead of the elevated Gardiner would be very nice, and much better than the current situation, but there is no way that this is happening anytime soon (and even not so soon ). The amount of money involved here is huge, and the city doesn't have it. And I do agree that there are many more projects (such as expansion of public transport) that are much more important.


----------



## Bartolo

and all the people that just say to close are crazy, because the local roads (Lakeshore) would not be able to handle the influx of traffic. Its like the people that want Cootes Drive in Hamilton closed. It goes from Main St. W at McMaster to Dundas and is a by-pass of Main St. W. People want to tear it up because it goes through Cootes Paradise (swamp area). The thing is, is that Main St. W can not handle the extra 30000 cars per day going down it, it can barely handle the amount of traffic it has now.


----------



## bgplayer19

Yes this idea is really stupid!I've heard that the same project was done in Chicago and it's still not finished due to the lack of money!I know that in the moment Toronto has problems with funds and this kind of project is not a good idea!


----------



## geogregor

I have question about highway 185 in Quebec. It is part of trans-canada highway. When are they going to twin it? I looked on Wikipedia and some other sites and there are plans that Hwy 185 will become freeway. But I couldn't find any time scale or information on which stage project currently is. 
New Brunswick is finishing or just finished building freeway on their part of TCH.
So the last gap in freeway connection between Toronto, Montreal and maritime provinces is Hwy 185.
Does anyone have more news about this project?

Another question is about these two lane freeways in maritime provinces. Is there space left so it is possible to build second lane in future? Or they going to be forever narrow because houses stand next to it and so on?


----------



## DanielFigFoz

isaidso said:


> Does the 'high' in highway refer to high speed? And does this word 'highway' trace its origins to Canada, the USA, or both? Does anyone have research on this as opposed to speculation/opinion?


No, it's a very old word, (it come from England) then they used high as main or main road. I mean a long time ago centrueis ago.


----------



## sonysnob

geogregor said:


> I have question about highway 185 in Quebec. It is part of trans-canada highway. When are they going to twin it? I looked on Wikipedia and some other sites and there are plans that Hwy 185 will become freeway. But I couldn't find any time scale or information on which stage project currently is.
> New Brunswick is finishing or just finished building freeway on their part of TCH.
> So the last gap in freeway connection between Toronto, Montreal and maritime provinces is Hwy 185.
> Does anyone have more news about this project?
> 
> Another question is about these two lane freeways in maritime provinces. Is there space left so it is possible to build second lane in future? Or they going to be forever narrow because houses stand next to it and so on?


Quebec 185 is supposed to be a full freeway by 2012 i think. I drove it a few years ago, and there were a couple of new stretches of freeway.


----------



## gannman1975

mgk920 said:


> The 'freeway' usage varies by region in the USA, too. Wisconsinites and Illinoisians would *NEVER, EVER* refer to a toll road as a 'freeway', it's a 'tollway'. Same design standards as a 'freeway' but one must pay a toll to use it.
> 
> Also, amazingly, there are a select few roads in the USA that are marked as 'interstates' but are not built to freeway standards (they have intersections). These include I-180 in Cheyenne, WY, a section of I-78 (by the Holland Tunnel) in Jersey City, NJ and the most notorious one of all, I-70 in Breezewood, PA.
> 
> Mike


Don't forget about roads signed as "Freeways" and are the furthest thing from. There are two sections of U.S. 340 in West Virginia which are signed as freeways (one even has a name) but have at-grade intersections and even *gasp* traffic signals. At least there is a 60mph speed limit though.


----------



## ssiguy2

Can you now travel all the way to the Quebec border from Halifax with no stops? I have tried NB transportation website and keep saying about all the roads, especially the TCH, being twinned but that doesn't mean it freeway/limited access standard.


----------



## Bartolo

No there are non-twinned sections in New Brunswick, north of Woodstock. I drove from Hamilton to Fredericton in October, and there was a section, about 100km long that was not twinned.


----------



## Haljackey

My how I love this thread...

Here is a good picture I have had on my hard drive for quite some time.

I don't remember where I got it from, but it looks neat eh? Its the bottom ramp from the 400/407 interchange I think.

http://images.frozenbear.com:9090/i.../a/64a10e33ec1568927306669a90bb3a1b0_main.jpg

Anyways, I hoped you enjoyed it!

Best,
-Haljackey

EDIT CHRISZWOLLE: IMG changed in URL. Please do not post unnecessary large pics, unless they're pano's or something.


----------



## Spoolmak

ssiguy2 said:


> Yes, the freeways in BC are well maintained but they damnwell should be considering how thin they are. The widest freeway part in all of BC is just 20 km and it's only 3lanes each way. Vancouver's road system is beyond pathetic. This is why Vancouverites have the second longest commutes in Canada after Toronto but not near as short as Montreal's even thou Montreal has a 60% larger population. That is also because Montreal has a great transit system and Vancouver doesn't.


Honestly what are you talking about. Have you ever driven the Coq? Its 6 lanes from Kamloops to Hope. Thats well over 20k, more like 200km. PLUS from Coquitlam to Vancouver is 6 lanes, plus from Merritt to West Bank is 6 lanes.


----------



## sonysnob

^ thats a sweet pic, do you know who owns it? i'd like to put it on my website.

I did some exploring at the 427/QEW interchange last summer:

http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_410-427_images/427_QEW_8_lg.jpg

http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_410-427_images/427_cl_0-5_north_lg.jpg

http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_410-427_images/427_QEW_6_lg.jpg

http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_410-427_images/427_QEW_4_lg.jpg


----------



## kokanee2

hkskyline said:


> Americans have a much bigger highway network than Canada. That's obvious from the population differential. The Interstate system is far more extensive than the Canadian network, while some Canadian highways in the sparse areas are only 2 lanes.
> 
> However, toll roads are quite a foreign concept in Canada compared to the US.


Actually not true.

As one poster stated in the interim, lots of bridges were tolled in the 1950's to early 1960's. Having grown up in BC, I know the Deas Tunnel and Oak Street Bridge were tolled, as was the Lions Gate Bridge, Second Narrows Bridge, Patullo Bridge, and the Queensborough Bridge. All the former in the Vancouver area. To my surprise, I learned that an itty-bitty bridge built in 1957 in Nelson, BC was also tolled.

It could be said that the ferry link joining the Trans Canada Highway on the Mainland to Vancouver Island (or the Island of Newfoundland) is also tolled, seeing that the inland ferries are free.

At present, the Coquihalla Highway (in BC) is tolled. The construction costs have long been paid off (from the early 1980's), now its a good revenue stream for the BC Govt.

To my knowledge, there is the ETR (ie: Hwy 407) in the Toronto area. And the Confederation Bridge joining the Province of Prince Edward Island to the Mainland is tolled(?).


----------



## kokanee2

vid said:


> Traffic flow in the Greater Lakehead


Did you make that schematic on your own?


----------



## sonysnob

Montreal is considering some new toll freeways as well. The new a-30 ring road is to be tolled, at least partially, as is the a-25 bridge connecting to a-440.

Do you think the tolls will ever be removed on the coq?


----------



## kokanee2

bgplayer19 said:


> I have a question:When was the ETR(Toronto) built?If I'm not mistaken it's build by the Spanish right?


I know it is owned in part by the Spanish. Part owner is also SNC-Lavalin of Canada.

Wouldn't make sense (and good politics) for works in Canada to be built by canadian workers; and works in Spain to be built by spanish workers?


----------



## kokanee2

sonysnob said:


> Do you think the tolls will ever be removed on the coq?


As long at the BC Govt doesn't "give" it to a private venture, they can do what they want.

There was an attempt (to give it to a private venture). The govt backed down after a huge hue and cry.


----------



## kokanee2

Spoolmak said:


> Honestly what are you talking about. Have you ever driven the Coq? Its 6 lanes from Kamloops to Hope. Thats well over 20k, more like 200km. PLUS from Coquitlam to Vancouver is 6 lanes, plus from Merritt to West Bank is 6 lanes.


All six lanes?

I know the climbing and descending parts are six lanes, but there are parts between Merritt and Hope that I know are (were?) four lanes.

By the way, how is the new divided highway part between Merritt and Aspen Grove, in order for connecting to the Okanagan Connector?


----------



## kokanee2

Its a good thing that Alberta is the leader in four laning the TCH from one side of their province to the other.

Is all of SK and MB now four laned as well?

Northwestern Ontario, as they say, is the forgotten corner of Ontario (Hopefully the constitution or whatever can be changed so these dudes can join with MB). That is, after every-one else in Canader has four-laned the TCH, Queens Park will - after a hundred years - not even register that (part of) their province is still in the dark ages.


----------



## TheCat

kokanee2 said:


> I know it is owned in part by the Spanish. Part owner is also SNC-Lavalin of Canada.
> 
> Wouldn't make sense (and good politics) for works in Canada to be built by canadian workers; and works in Spain to be built by spanish workers?


Actually, as I previously stated, it looks like the 407 ETR was built by a Canadian company (although I don't know the nationality of the actual people working on building it). It was sold to the Spanish (and some others) later on, already in built state.


----------



## kokanee2

mr.x said:


> A forest fire near the Trans-Canada in BC, 2003:


With that Highway sign indicating "Banff", I'd say that fire is in Alberta.

Good picture, though. Thanks.


----------



## Bartolo

kokanee2 said:


> Its a good thing that Alberta is the leader in four laning the TCH from one side of their province to the other.
> 
> Is all of SK and MB now four laned as well?
> 
> Northwestern Ontario, as they say, is the forgotten corner of Ontario (Hopefully the constitution or whatever can be changed so these dudes can join with MB). That is, after every-one else in Canader has four-laned the TCH, Queens Park will - after a hundred years - not even register that (part of) their province is still in the dark ages.


There is no point in twinning the TCH through northern Ontario. What needs to be done and is being done, is twin around large centres and to connect The Soo with Sudbury and then southern Ontario when the 400 is done. There is not enough traffic to warrant twinning the entire TCH be it 11 or 17. Maybe creating passing lanes on ascents and descents, but thats it.


----------



## TheCat

^^ Great pics! It would be better if you posted them right in the thread, since people who skim over without reading text might not realize new pictures were posted. They need to be made smaller beforehand though


----------



## TheCat

^^ Yeah, twinning is probably not necessary at this point (the economics simply don't warrant it).

However, if what I heard and read previously in this thread is true, then its geometry needs to be completely redesigned and rebuilt in many places, especially near the Ontario-Manitoba border, since I've seen some pictures of either Highway 11 or 17 (sorry, not familiar with these areas) winding down a mountain almost like a serpentine, with narrow lanes and no lighting.

This is good for a back country road or a scenic route, not a major national connection. According to people who've driven on this road before, it is extremely dangerous at night.

I believe that while it can be left as a 2-lane highway until traffic volumes increase, it at least should be a high-quality 2-lane road, like some of the 2-lane highways in Southern Ontario. I've driven on sections of Highway 26 around the Wasaga Beach area, and it was a pleasure to drive on, even though it's a 2-lane road.


----------



## sonysnob

I wonder if the government leased the 407 so that governments wouldn't have to take the blame for rising toll costs.

To keep the highway congestion free, the tolls have to keep increasing to reduce the average drivers desire to use the highway. This is a unpopular policy, but conveniently Ontarioans get to blame the 407 consortium rather than the Ontario government.


----------



## kokanee2

Bartolo said:


> There is no point in twinning the TCH through northern Ontario.


I beg to differ. 

True, the volume is not there, given the poor state (and slow speed) of the existing road. At present it just gets diverted. 

At present, I am inclined to be of the opinion, that this gap produces an "insular" attitude between the west and the east (Let's remain separated !!, or divided we stand, united we fall).

Given the volume of traffic to the west (in the Prairie provinces) on the TCH, I would think that twinning the highway would lead to more traffic throughout northern Ontario, and perchance be a "magnet" for expansion and growth, which would benefit all around.

And that excuse about hard rock in northern Ontario, is just that, an excuse. 

Thinking how it is that the BC and Federal Govt's are "throwing money" and twinning the TCH at the most expensive parts first, suggests there is willingness in other parts of Canada to tackle challenge head-on. 

After the hard rock, steep mountain sides, and no place to put a highway Golden is done, it wouldn't surprise me to hear that Salmon Arm-Sicamous and/or Field-Spiral Tunnels area are done next.


----------



## Haljackey

sonysnob: Sorry, like I said, I am not sure where I got that image from.

Nice pics by the way!


----------



## TheCat

Taller said:


> The Gardiner is like any elevated structure and requires maintenance, but it is not falling apart. How is an at-grade freeway is a better solution than a raised freeway that you can freely drive or walk under? How the heck are we supposed to cross an at-grade freeway, as pedestrians?
> 
> 
> Toronto does not have the luxury of massive federal funding, like Boston had when it launched its
> (dubious) Big Dig project to bury the freeway. The only conceivable way to do it is by using private developers and giving them building rights on top.


I agree with you, so they have either not maintained it properly throughout the years, or they are just exaggerating the extent of the neglect (probably the latter is more true).

Either way, I wasn't proposing an at-grade freeway, but rather fixing/rebuilding the sections that require it.

There are some other problems with this too. It means that people going down the DVP will suddenly have to exit to a regular street, drive through it for a while, and then back onto a freeway (western Gardiner/QEW). It just seems like a stupid bottleneck, not a smart decision.

Regarding constructing it below the ground, that of course is something Toronto doesn't have money for.


----------



## sonysnob

So you tear down the Gardiner, then what about the railway lands? Nobody ever seems to talk about how much of these impede pedestrian movement and divide neighbourhoods. The Gardiner isn't the most attractive of highways (though I don't think its repulsive either), but it isn't even the biggest separator between the core and the water.

Toronto has become the land of half-assed. Tear down the Gardiner and build a half assed arterial to replace it, or build half a subway line and abandon the rest because its underused. Where is the vision!?


----------



## trainrover

^^ Not much awesome about them with their uncorrected disintegration lasting the past quarter century.





lambersart2005 said:


> does anybody know something new about the reconstruction of the turcot interchange near downtown montréal? I heard, they want to invest 1 mrd de dollars! On the one hand, its a good thing as the quality of the interchange is frightening (you drive in such heights on a completely declined structure) but on the other hand, its such a pitty if they really destroy the elevated stretch and put it "down to earth". Also provided nice views of the MTL skyline and for me its always a highlight to come back to the city, pasing through this great masterpiece of art )
> 
> alors, merci déjà pour des réponses... profitez des premiers rayons de soleil de ce printmeps retardé!


Yes. Saint-Henri and Cote-Saint-Paul residents fear the impending years' worth of demolition and reconstruction. The whole interchange is going to be closer to the ground than up to the poor clouds.




FYI, at least one of the remaining couple of missing south-shore segments of Aut. 30 -- a ring road -- was started being built yesterday. The Kahnawake Mohawks got their land swap for the eastern (I think...) segment going through their reserve.


----------



## FM 2258

lambersart2005 said:


> l'échangeur des A40/ A25 à anjou - note the details on the bridges!





sonysnob said:


>


I love how the yellow exit "tabs" point to the direction of the exit.


----------



## TheCat

I have gone on a short (~80 km) trip a few weeks ago with a few friends to a small park/river conservation area near a town called Rockwood. My friend took a few photos on our way back to Toronto. The quality leaves much to be desired (especially the dark shots at dusk), but I thought I'd still share them here.

The pictures capture the main two parts of the trip: Halton Regional Road 1 (also called Guelph Line), and the infamous Highway 401 (eastbound to Toronto).

Here is an approximate map:










First of all, this is me driving with my trusty GPS :









*Halton Regional Road 1 (Guelph Line):*
































































This guy drove below the speed limit for several km, and I couldn't pass him
because of oncoming traffic and my friend in another car who was behind me
(I didn't want to lose him):










*Highway 401 East:*
Resurfacing in progress - it was pretty dangerous, since it was hard to hold
the wheel straight on this section (next 3 photos), and later I found out that
one spring on my left front suspension was broken hno:














































Sign indicating the 407 ETR (the only toll highway in Ontario):























































Empty variable message sign:










The collector-express system starts in this area, and this is where
the 401 starts getting really big:




























Small traffic jam, lasted for a few km:










Gets really dark from here, sorry :


----------



## trainrover

(A storm cell blew over seven trucks crossing le pont Champlain --Aut 15 & 20-- yesterday.....250,000 Quebecers probably still experiencing blackout this morning.)


----------



## [email protected]

lambersart2005 said:


> we should start a pilgrim tour to the great North :cheers:
> 
> vive le grand Nord  !!!


I have a question for you.Quebec Route 138 right now goes only as far as Natashquan. Are there any plans to extend it further east along the north shore eventually reaching Blanc Sablon ?
what a marvellous round trip one could then make by crossing over via the ferry to Newfoundland and back via Channel Port au Basques- North Sydney and Nova Scotia/ New Brunswick.


----------



## trainrover

^^ You might wish to consult some webpage of Le minstère du transport du gouvernement du Québec.

I can tell you that the communities on the east end of Rte 138 were bitchin' about having to pay for petrol that, for them, has just finally become more expensive than cow's milk.


----------



## trainrover

La Ville de Montréal's tactics are pissin' me off more 'n more. Today's report in _Métro_ has revealed the snidy municipality's pursuit of reconstructing rue Notre-Dame est into «boulevard Notre-Dame», thereby implying the four-lane artery being 'morphed into an ''eight-lane urban boulevard'', when they in fact wanna be inserting an underground autoroute alongside the port grounds.

Gee whizzzzz: Welcome to N Am's _Yankeetown_! :rant: :mad2: :rant: just another community over here where scheming lies be unconditionally acceptable . . .

Le maire Labonté veut recouvrir l'autoroute Notre-Dame
JENNIFER GUTHRIE, MÉTRO 
12 juin 2008 12:10

Le chef de Vision Montréal et maire de l’arrondissement de Ville-Marie, Benoit Labonté, propose de bonifier le projet de modernisation de la rue Notre-Dame en enfouissant l’autoroute Ville-Marie et la rue Notre-Dame jusqu’à la rue Frontenac.

Le projet, baptisé Rives nouvelles et dévoilé hier, permettrait d’offrir un accès au fleuve, en plus de libérer 71 hectares (710 000 m2) de terrains sur lesquels 8 000 logements au minimum pourraient être construits.

«Le projet de la Ville prévoit déjà que l’autoroute Ville-Marie sera recouverte entre les rues Sanguinet et Amherst, a indiqué M. Labonté. Pourquoi ne finirait-on pas le travail en recouvrant les 700 derniers mètres, jusqu’à Frontenac?»

Benoit Labonté n’a pas précisé le coût du projet, mais Richard Bergeron, chef de 
Projet Montréal, avance la somme de 500 M$ juste pour recouvrir l’autoroute.

Benoit Labonté a transmis sa proposition vendredi à la ministre des Transport, Julie Boulet, afin qu’elle soit incluse dans l’étude de faisabilité du recouvrement de l’autoroute promise en mai lors du dévoilement des plans de modernisation de la rue Notre-Dame.

Des parcs et des logements
Le maire de Ville-Marie souhaiterait développer de nombreux espaces verts sur les terrains créés par le recouvrement de l’autoroute Ville-Marie et d’une portion de la rue Notre-Dame. Un parc de 27 hectares (270 000 m2) – «ce qui est un peu plus que le territoire du Vieux-Port», a précisé M. Labonté – pourrait notamment voir le jour sur les berges du fleuve.

De 8 000 à 12 000 logements pourraient également être construits dans le quartier Centre-Sud, de part et d’autre de la rue Notre-Dame, entre le pont Jacques-Cartier et la rue Frontenac. «Il s’agit d’une occasion en or de retenir plusieurs familles au centre-ville», a affirmé Benoit Labonté.

Réplique cinglante des adversaires
Alan DeSousa, responsable du développement économique et du développement durable de Montréal, et Richard Bergeron, chef de Projet Montréal, n’ont pas été tendres envers Benoit Labonté et le projet Rives nouvelles.

«Comme responsable du développement durable, je suis heureux de voir qu’au moins M. Labonté souscrit au principe du recyclage, mais c’est dommage que ce soit les projets des autres qu’il recycle, a ironisé M. DeSousa. Une partie de ce qu’il présente est déjà contenu dans la Vision 2025 présentée en 2004 par la Société du Havre et qui fait partie intégrante du plan de match Montréal 2025 mis de l’avant par Gérald Tremblay depuis octobre 2005.»

«M. Labonté n’a pas proposé une seule idée originale depuis qu’il est arrivé en politique municipale il y a deux ans et demi», a ajouté M. Bergeron.


----------



## trainrover

^^ Oh, alright: it would only go to Frontenac, but still!


----------



## isaidso

wyqtor said:


> I don't mean to be rude or nitpicking, but wouldn't it be better if you adopted the French signage instead of the American one?


If you mean US signage, it isn't US signage. It's North American signage, and Quebec is in North America. Quebec is as North American as any other jurisdiction in Canada, the USA, Mexico, etc. 

Should people in New York State adopt English signage because they speak English? This is silly.


----------



## TheCat

*Downtown Toronto at Night by Car*

I'm not sure if this warrants creating a separate thread (probably not), but the Toronto thread is labeled "Toronto's Massive Highways", which isn't at all what this is about 

So anyway, I opened the same thread in the Toronto forum, so I'll mostly repeat what I said there 

My friend and I recently created a little video of driving around downtown Toronto at night (my friend was the driver, I was filming and later editing). The result isn't perfect, but this was my first time trying to shoot something at night (we used my friend's compact MiniDV camera).

There was a bit of traffic in the beginning of the video, but after that it goes much faster. I also labeled the streets.

Make sure you select the "watch in high quality" option in Youtube (if you have a broadband connection, of course), since it makes a huge difference.

Anyway, I hope you like it. Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxvwW9nIwCU

Feel free to comment, and perhaps add your own videos of urban driving later (in that case, Chriszwolle may want to rename this thread). I know Chris has several cool Zwolle videos that I watched on his channel on Youtube.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice video. It was taken rather late right? It seems still pretty busy. You can easily pick out the guys with automatic gears, they brake all the time at traffic lights


----------



## TheCat

^^ It wasn't very late, but I'd say around 22:00. There were also some street closures about half an hour before we took the video because of some festival, so maybe it added a bit to the congestion.

And yes, probably 99% of the drivers have an automatic


----------



## Comfortably Numb

isaidso said:


> If you mean US signage, it isn't US signage. It's North American signage, and Quebec is in North America. Quebec is as North American as any other jurisdiction in Canada, the USA, Mexico, etc.
> 
> Should people in New York State adopt English signage because they speak English? This is silly.


It's no different from Puerto Rico using Spanish signage. Mexico also uses very similar signage, but in Spanish.

Part of me thinks that South Florida should adopt Spanish signage too, since most people here use Spanish more than English.

Quebec looks fascinating though.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Angry_Chair said:


> It's no different from Puerto Rico using Spanish signage. Mexico also uses very similar signage, but in Spanish.
> 
> Part of me thinks that South Florida should adopt Spanish signage too, since most people here use Spanish more than English.
> 
> Quebec looks fascinating though.


I think you misunderstood the meaning of "signage". It is not merely the language written on signs but the entire signage system (i.e. shape and colour). Canada as well as Puerto Rico and Mexico uses the North American style of signs which is very different from European signage.


----------



## swaugh3

Any update on the Red Hill Valley Parkway?


----------



## swaugh3

Can anyone make a good map of all the planned freeway extensions?


----------



## go_leafs_go02

swaugh3 said:


> Any update on the Red Hill Valley Parkway?


It's been open for 6 months or so by now I think. Part of it has to be finished, and that is the the QEW Niagara bound ramp to the RHVP.

here are some pics taken right before it opened:

http://onthighways.com/Hamilton/RHVP_Cons.htm

Great link connecting Niagara to Southwestern Ontario.


----------



## swaugh3

Can someone create a map of what Toronto and Ottawa's freeways should be like or should have been? I know that at least the Scarborough extension of the Gardiner would have at least alleviated traffic from DVP and 401.


----------



## algonquin

Another reason why Ontario hasn't twinned the TCH in northern Ontario is that we have our hands full with trying to keep up with volume down south. The 401 alone needs constant attention and expansion; that alone represents more traffic than anywhere else in Canada.


----------



## sonysnob




----------



## Gil

sonysnob said:


> 401 @ 410





swaugh3 said:


> Any word on when the EB 401 to WB 403 and EB 403 to WB 401 ramps will be constructed?


The EB 403 to WB 401 ramp is "roughed in", you can actually see where people have tried to use it behind the 3rd and 4th support column of the WB 401 to NB 410 ramp. I don't think they'd ever get around to an EB 401 to WB 403 though, given the land constraints. While completing the interchange would essentially allow you to make a big U-Tun on the highway there is some merit for the ramp to WB 401. You still get traffic from the Eglinton and Cawthra/Eastgate exits that would love to get to the 401 without having to sit at traffic lights up Dixie or Hurontario, both of which are 2 major streets away from the 403. The ramp's already there, just pave it. But I'm thinking they're waiting until the Collector Lanes get extended past Kennedy Rd. before they actually do that. The only other option if one insists on taking the highway is to do a U-Turn at the Courtney Park exits.


----------



## sonysnob

*The 403 in Hamilton*


----------



## blix613

Pics from the Outaouais region 





































Near Lachute










A15/50 north of Montreal










More here ...

http://flickr.com/search/?q=highway+OR+autoroute&ss=0&ct=0&[email protected]


----------



## swaugh3

*DRIC GreenLink / Windsor-Essex Parkway*

I have seen renderings of maps and scenes of the future Highway 401 extension, but nothing regarding the plazas or road/highway connections on the US side.


----------



## swaugh3

*DRIC GreenLink / Windsor-Essex Parkway*

Why don't they integrate the E.C. Row Expressway into the new corridor as it reaches the border instead of having two expressways run side-by-side?


----------



## [email protected]

swaugh3 said:


> Does anyone have maps of proposed extensions?


Sorry Swaugh havent seen any but discovered that Hydro Quebec plan a major hydro scheme on the Mecatina River,This will surely hasten the Route 138 eastern extension.

Also looking at a surveyors site learn that they had been commissioned by Quebec DOT to survey the route from Natashquan to Kegaska including the bridge over the Natashquan river. Question: if a ferry works just fine at Tadoussac why not at this site?


----------



## swaugh3

[email protected] said:


> Sorry Swaugh havent seen any but discovered that Hydro Quebec plan a major hydro scheme on the Mecatina River,This will surely hasten the Route 138 eastern extension.
> 
> Also looking at a surveyors site learn that they had been commissioned by Quebec DOT to survey the route from Natashquan to Kegaska including the bridge over the Natashquan river. Question: if a ferry works just fine at Tadoussac why not at this site?


You mean MTQ (Québec Ministère des Transports), but thanks anyway.


----------



## [email protected]

I am planning to drive the James Bay highway up to Radisson this August or September.
Can any one tell me whether the Rupert river has aleady been diverted or will I be able to see the rapids in their original form?


----------



## [email protected]

Some really exciting new highways are proposed in Northern Canada.
1 Up the west shore of Hudson Bay from Gillam, Manitoba to Rankin Inlet in Inuvit.(1200KM)
2 All weather road along the Mackenzie river valley to Inuvik. In part replacing existing winter road.
3 Winter road NE from Yellowknife to be replaced with an all weather road. ( this is the highway featured in the TV series " Ice Road Truckers')
4 A highway southwest from Bathurst Inlet to link up with 3 above at Contwoyto Lake giving a route from Yellowknife to the Arctic Ocean.
Anyone got more detailed info on these projects?


----------



## trainrover

The Turcot Interchange was shut much of day this last Friday. A few cars got swallowed by a behemoth of a pot hole, something like 2 metres long with a depth of two to three feet is what English CBC kept barking that afternoon rush-hour...





LtBk said:


> Any news on upgrading them to 2x4 or 2X5?


Damn, I wish I could write you that every single one of them's going to be railed instead of asphalted!





swaugh3 said:


> Does anyone have maps of proposed extensions?


Maybe the _Ministère_'s website does...in addition to 'ringing' Aut 30 around the southshore, the _Ministère_ intends on extending Aut 25 up to Aut 640, thereby constructing a new bridge to the northshore that they'd like to equip with electronic tolls hno:






[email protected] said:


> Can any one tell me whether the Rupert river has aleady been diverted or will I be able to see the rapids in their original form?


Sorry, I forgot about our bush...few trains come and go from the island here, (really!) I didn't know that's what we momentarily subject rivers to here...


----------



## sonysnob




----------



## Electrify

My girlfriend and I recently purchased our first car together (guess I'll be spending more time in here than in transit threads and forums for awhile :naughty: ), and let me give you this little piece of advice:

If you are taking the 404 south past the 401 and on to the DVP, HAVE A PASSENGER WITH YOU SO YOU CAN USE THE HOV LANES!!! Otherwise, park at the subway or take Don Mills or Bayview down.

Going against the rush hour, it took almost 30 minutes to get from Sheppard to south of the 401!!! :nuts:


----------



## Xusein

Cool pics. Is that the 403 or the 407?

BTW, lots of power lines in the distance. :nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What a massive concrete mess.


----------



## sonysnob

The first three photos are of the 407 near Brampton. The highway was built in the vacant lands of a hydro corridor. The final section is a recently widened stretch of the 401 between Windsor and Tilbury.


----------



## Haljackey

Chriszwolle said:


> What a massive concrete mess.


I couldn't agree with you more. Pretty much everything in Ontario was smooth asphalt until the 407's construction in the 1990's. Not only is concrete ugly, its noisy too!

Now other highways are having concrete resurfacing done. This includes the 401 east of Windsor. Its still not as noisy as the concrete US interstates, but enough to annoy you.

But with climbing asphalt prices, using the smooth surface is costing more and more these days.


----------



## xzmattzx

I noticed that the QEW is only about 5 miles (8 kilometers for you guys) from Highway 406 and the outskirts of Welland. Has the province ever considered a 400-series spur route to Welland? Then again, would one even be needed?


----------



## sonysnob

Haljackey said:


> I couldn't agree with you more. Pretty much everything in Ontario was smooth asphalt until the 407's construction in the 1990's. Not only is concrete ugly, its noisy too!
> 
> Now other highways are having concrete resurfacing done. This includes the 401 east of Windsor. Its still not as noisy as the concrete US interstates, but enough to annoy you.
> 
> But with climbing asphalt prices, using the smooth surface is costing more and more these days.


Historically speaking, most new highways are first completed with concrete. Think 401 across the top of Toronto, it was opened as a concrete highway in the 1960s, and was paved over in the 80s and 90s. I am sure this will be the case with the new highways as well.

Though, you will have to wait a while to see highways paved again.

(Of note, the original concrete surface laid out in the 1950s is still buried under pretty much all of the 401 between Windsor and Chatham.)


----------



## swaugh3

sonysnob said:


> The first three photos are of the 407 near Brampton. The highway was built in the vacant lands of a hydro corridor. The final section is a recently widened stretch of the 401 between Windsor and Tilbury.


It is in Brampton, not near it.


----------



## swaugh3

Haljackey said:


> I couldn't agree with you more. Pretty much everything in Ontario was smooth asphalt until the 407's construction in the 1990's. Not only is concrete ugly, its noisy too!
> 
> Now other highways are having concrete resurfacing done. This includes the 401 east of Windsor. Its still not as noisy as the concrete US interstates, but enough to annoy you.
> 
> But with climbing asphalt prices, using the smooth surface is costing more and more these days.


Concrete lasts longer, but costs more than asphalt. However, there is the question of how it will fare against deicing salt during the winter seasons compared to asphalt.


----------



## swaugh3

xzmattzx said:


> I noticed that the QEW is only about 5 miles (8 kilometers for you guys) from Highway 406 and the outskirts of Welland. Has the province ever considered a 400-series spur route to Welland? Then again, would one even be needed?


Welland is too small of a city (even smaller and less built up than Wilmington) to warrant any such thing. Now that I think about it, Highway 406 is the spur route.


----------



## swaugh3

Haljackey said:


> I couldn't agree with you more. Pretty much everything in Ontario was smooth asphalt until the 407's construction in the 1990's. Not only is concrete ugly, its noisy too!
> 
> Now other highways are having concrete resurfacing done. This includes the 401 east of Windsor. Its still not as noisy as the concrete US interstates, but enough to annoy you.
> 
> But with climbing asphalt prices, using the smooth surface is costing more and more these days.


Concrete lasts longer, but costs more than asphalt. However, there is the question of how it will fare against deicing salt during the winter seasons compared to asphalt.


----------



## [email protected]

Can anyone explain this. Quebec Autoroute 50 will eventually run from Hull to Montreal but is only partially completed. The junctions are numbered west to east from Hull yet the lowest number near Hull is Jct. 138. Why so?


----------



## LtBk

> Damn, I wish I could write you that every single one of them's going to be railed instead of asphalted!


What do you mean?


----------



## sonysnob

^It will hold up fine -- its not like concrete is new.


----------



## sonysnob

[email protected] said:


> Can anyone explain this. Quebec Autoroute 50 will eventually run from Hull to Montreal but is only partially completed. The junctions are numbered west to east from Hull yet the lowest number near Hull is Jct. 138. Why so?


A-50 was intended to extend from Pembroke east to Ottawa, and the mileage is based from its theoretical western terminus. There had at one point been a very short 4-lane section of R-148 just east of the Allumettes Bridge. It was removed back in 2003 or so however.


----------



## TheCat

My newest video, this time of me driving from Mississauga (a suburb of Toronto) to Waterloo, a city just over 100 km west of Toronto. The weather was very bad unfortunately, and I've experienced one of my scariest driving situations yet (toward the end of the video). Also, parts of the 401 are undergoing resurfacing, and the current surface on these sections is very dangerous. A more detailed explanation is on Youtube.

Featured in this video are Highway 401, Highway 8 (it is a motorway in Waterloo), and the Conestoga Parkway (Highway 85). If you have a broadband Internet connection, I suggest clicking on the video and watching in high quality. In this weather, it makes a big difference.


----------



## deasine

Haljackey said:


> I couldn't agree with you more. Pretty much everything in Ontario was smooth asphalt until the 407's construction in the 1990's. Not only is concrete ugly, its noisy too!
> 
> Now other highways are having concrete resurfacing done. This includes the 401 east of Windsor. Its still not as noisy as the concrete US interstates, but enough to annoy you.
> 
> But with climbing asphalt prices, using the smooth surface is costing more and more these days.


Isn't concrete supposed to last a lot longer than asphalt?


----------



## TheCat

I just returned from a trip to Ottawa and made some driving camera footage. It was my first time testing out the miniDV camera I bought two days ago, so not sure how it turned out, but I will try to post the videos on Youtube once I edit them and speed them up. They feature Highway 416, a long section of westbound Highway 401, east of Toronto (broken up into multiple sections, including a night drive through the huge section with the collector-express system), and a drive on some local 2-lane roads. So stay tuned (if anyone cares ).


----------



## TheCat

Just found AMAZING videos of a long drive in Western Canada. Great video quality, and awesome scenery. Highly recommended!

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3


----------



## Timon91

The videos are 'not longer available'. Btw, did you drive through Grand Forks, BC on the highway 3?


----------



## TheCat

^^ Ahm, they don't seem to work with direct embedding. However, they are available. I edited my post to simply link to them. Seems to work this way.

And regarding your question, I am not the creator of the video, so the answer is no  Actually, I've never been to Western Canada yet, although the video really made me want to drive there.


----------



## sonysnob

Those videos are awesome. Ontario sucks


----------



## deasine

TheCat said:


> ^^ Ahm, they don't seem to work with direct embedding. However, they are available. I edited my post to simply link to them. Seems to work this way.
> 
> And regarding your question, I am not the creator of the video, so the answer is no  Actually, I've never been to Western Canada yet, although the video really made me want to drive there.


You would want to drive there more once u get on the Sea-to-Sky Hwy... although it's a mess right now because of the construction... but it's supposedly the most beautiful "highway" in the world (more like most deadliest here though =P)









Source: Flickr


----------



## [email protected]

TheCat said:


> Just found AMAZING videos of a long drive in Western Canada. Great video quality, and awesome scenery. Highly recommended!
> 
> Part 1
> Part 2
> Part 3


Great, great videos. Thank you.


----------



## Timon91

Highway 99 to Whistler (= 2010 olympics) is currently closed because of rock slides. If you want to go to Whistler from Vancouver: the detour is only 454 km


----------



## G5man

Don't even get me started with dumb **** Falco. They don't even know a thing about traffic control in the Lower Mainland. They should have made it 4 lanes to Whistler and gotten rid of as much cliff as possible. Along with all the traffic lights (although the environmentalists would be all over them with getting rid of the cliffs) Improvements from the Pacific Truck Crossing? More like one more lane, same amount of stoplights.


----------



## Timon91

They should really check this whole road (and double it) before the 2010 Olympics


----------



## algonquin

I don't understand why they don't run a ferry from Vancouver to Squamish for the Olympics. I guess that would make too much sense. At least have it as a back-up plan in case this happens in 2010.

It's a gorgeous drive though... I love Porteau Cove (thats where the slide happened).


----------



## algonquin

[email protected] said:


> Some really exciting new highways are proposed in Northern Canada.
> 1 Up the west shore of Hudson Bay from Gillam, Manitoba to Rankin Inlet in Inuvit.(1200KM)
> 2 All weather road along the Mackenzie river valley to Inuvik. In part replacing existing winter road.
> 3 Winter road NE from Yellowknife to be replaced with an all weather road. ( this is the highway featured in the TV series " Ice Road Truckers')
> 4 A highway southwest from Bathurst Inlet to link up with 3 above at Contwoyto Lake giving a route from Yellowknife to the Arctic Ocean.
> Anyone got more detailed info on these projects?


this is exciting stuff.... open up that frontier!


----------



## G5man

algonquin said:


> I don't understand why they don't run a ferry from Vancouver to Squamish for the Olympics. I guess that would make too much sense. At least have it as a back-up plan in case this happens in 2010.
> 
> It's a gorgeous drive though... I love Porteau Cove (thats where the slide happened).


From what I hear, the Squamish dock was let to run down over time now being deemed unsafe for use. They have three Pacificats owned by Washington Marine Group that have sat for about 7 years. From what I also hear, the VANOC is not responsible for the highway and transportation minister Kevin Falcon has his ignorance level up at around 100%. Backup plan? Might be too little too late and even I'm wondering if this is going to be a total bust.


----------



## mr.x

G5man said:


> From what I hear, the Squamish dock was let to run down over time now being deemed unsafe for use. They have three Pacificats owned by Washington Marine Group that have sat for about 7 years. From what I also hear, the VANOC is not responsible for the highway and transportation minister Kevin Falcon has his ignorance level up at around 100%. Backup plan? Might be too little too late and even I'm wondering if this is going to be a total bust.


VANOC is not responsible for building the highway, but they are definitely responsible for providing athletes, media, officials, volunteers, VIP's, and spectators with transportation between Whistler and Vancouver. And VANOC will do so by renting out thousands of buses to create its own Olympic transportation fleet. During the bid, the plan was to use a combination of buses on the expanded highway and a 16 fleet of 500-passenger high speed ferries between Canada Place and Richmond and Squamish.

We'll know about VANOC's transportation plan when it is unveiled this fall.


----------



## TheCat

Just a few photos I found from July 1, when I went to watch the Canada Day fireworks with my friends.

*Gardiner Expressway:*









*Lakeshore Boulevard (time: 21:17):*









*Lakeshore Boulevard (time: 23:19):*









*Lakeshore Boulevard (a few moments later... traffic was very bad):*


----------



## Electrify

The only good thing about tearing down the Gardiner is that it is such an ultra-left radical plan that it may be just enough to get Miller kicked out of office.

First of all, I've crossed the rail tracks and highway numerous times by foot to the waterfront, and it isn't that bad in the least. For those who do feel it is, there is the Harbourfront LRT that does a fantastic job connecting pedestrians to the waterfront. If you really want to invest in making our waterfront people friendly, take the money used to tear down the Gardiner and make the Harbourfront streetcars free (it may be difficult to implement due to the design of Union station, but may be worth the effort).

Secondly, we can all agree that most traffic from the DVP/Gardiner combo is heading for the downtown core, correct? So while I am still against it, would it not make more sense to take out the Gardiner between Yonge and York (possibly Spadina)? Instead, we are creating an unnecessary jog in Toronto's highway network in 'hopes' to spur development. As of now, it will simply be "connecting" the run down factories of the Harbourfront to the junkies and hookers of Dundas and Sherbourne. The central Harbourfront has developed quite nicely with the Gardiner, I do not see how creating congestion is going to help the east Harbourfront develop any better.


----------



## isaidso

TheCat said:


> ^^ Horrible decision. We hardly have enough expressways in Toronto as it is. It won't reduce traffic, but rather will simply make commutes less efficient and more lengthy, and won't improve the waterfront one bit.
> 
> The waterfront needs improvement as it is, without consideration for any freeways. A lot can be done there. Replacing a freeway with a regular street with traffic lights is the most retarded thing in the world.


Then start being more responsible, and move downtown. That will get rid of your commute all together. Toronto isn't some driving range for you and your car. We should pave over parts of this city with freeways so selfish people like you can get here quicker? That's the most arrogant thing I've heard all month. 

Keep your car, its smog, your environmentally irresponsible attitudes, and yourself in your suburb. You obviously don't live here, so you don't get a say as to how we develop it for the people that LIVE here. You wouldn't take kindly to us paving over your lawn so we can get to the other side with more ease, so don't do it to us. Unbelievable.

Street level in Toronto is for people, not machines. The Gardiner? Bury it, or level it. Maybe those irresponsible commuters will finally see the wisdom in doing something for the planet, doing something for Toronto, and pushing for adequate rail infrastructure. It's always about their selfish interests. Self absorbed or what.

And no, I'm not some left leaning hippy. Right of centre, actually.


----------



## ChrisH

In my experience the railroad is far more oppressive to pedestrians than the highway. If you could bury them both and create a park on top that would be incredible! Otherwise levelling the Gardiner won't actually achieve very much.


----------



## sonysnob

isaidso said:


> Then start being more responsible, and move downtown. That will get rid of your commute all together. Toronto isn't some driving range for you and your car. We should pave over parts of this city with freeways so selfish people like you can get here quicker? That's the most arrogant thing I've heard all month.
> 
> Keep your car, its smog, your environmentally irresponsible attitudes, and yourself in your suburb. You obviously don't live here, so you don't get a say as to how we develop it for the people that LIVE here. You wouldn't take kindly to us paving over your lawn so we can get to the other side with more ease, so don't do it to us. Unbelievable.
> 
> Street level in Toronto is for people, not machines. The Gardiner? Bury it, or level it. Maybe those irresponsible commuters will finally see the wisdom in doing something for the planet, doing something for Toronto, and pushing for adequate rail infrastructure. It's always about their selfish interests. Self absorbed or what.
> 
> And no, I'm not some left leaning hippy. Right of centre, actually.


Maybe not a hippy, but still not very intelligent.

Do you think that business needs any more reason to move to Mississauga? Punishing comuters who use their cars is nothing short of dumb. And what of the residents who might just want to by-pass downtown? Its not like there is another way around downtown.


----------



## christos-greece

Massive highways indeed


----------



## TheCat

isaidso said:


> Then start being more responsible, and move downtown. That will get rid of your commute all together. Toronto isn't some driving range for you and your car. We should pave over parts of this city with freeways so selfish people like you can get here quicker? That's the most arrogant thing I've heard all month.
> 
> Keep your car, its smog, your environmentally irresponsible attitudes, and yourself in your suburb. You obviously don't live here, so you don't get a say as to how we develop it for the people that LIVE here. You wouldn't take kindly to us paving over your lawn so we can get to the other side with more ease, so don't do it to us. Unbelievable.
> 
> Street level in Toronto is for people, not machines. The Gardiner? Bury it, or level it. Maybe those irresponsible commuters will finally see the wisdom in doing something for the planet, doing something for Toronto, and pushing for adequate rail infrastructure. It's always about their selfish interests. Self absorbed or what.
> 
> And no, I'm not some left leaning hippy. Right of centre, actually.


I take the bus and subway everyday. Before you resort to personal attacks, please do your homework.


----------



## plcmat

isaidso said:


> Then start being more responsible, and move downtown. That will get rid of your commute all together. Toronto isn't some driving range for you and your car. We should pave over parts of this city with freeways so selfish people like you can get here quicker? That's the most arrogant thing I've heard all month.
> 
> Keep your car, its smog, your environmentally irresponsible attitudes, and yourself in your suburb. You obviously don't live here, so you don't get a say as to how we develop it for the people that LIVE here. You wouldn't take kindly to us paving over your lawn so we can get to the other side with more ease, so don't do it to us. Unbelievable.
> 
> Street level in Toronto is for people, not machines. The Gardiner? Bury it, or level it. Maybe those irresponsible commuters will finally see the wisdom in doing something for the planet, doing something for Toronto, and pushing for adequate rail infrastructure. It's always about their selfish interests. Self absorbed or what.
> 
> And no, I'm not some left leaning hippy. Right of centre, actually.


Do you really believe that there is enough housing in downtown Toronto to hold all of the people who work in downtown Toronto? (Or any other city for that matter?)

Do you really believe that everyone who works in downtown Toronto can afford to live in downtown Toronto? How about the person who cleans your office every night? Should they just buy a condo on the waterfront?


----------



## Electrify

isaidso said:


> Then start being more responsible, and move downtown. That will get rid of your commute all together. Toronto isn't some driving range for you and your car. We should pave over parts of this city with freeways so selfish people like you can get here quicker? That's the most arrogant thing I've heard all month.
> 
> Keep your car, its smog, your environmentally irresponsible attitudes, and yourself in your suburb. You obviously don't live here, so you don't get a say as to how we develop it for the people that LIVE here. You wouldn't take kindly to us paving over your lawn so we can get to the other side with more ease, so don't do it to us. Unbelievable.
> 
> Street level in Toronto is for people, not machines. The Gardiner? Bury it, or level it. Maybe those irresponsible commuters will finally see the wisdom in doing something for the planet, doing something for Toronto, and pushing for adequate rail infrastructure. It's always about their selfish interests. Self absorbed or what.
> 
> And no, I'm not some left leaning hippy. Right of centre, actually.


Thing is, is that the Gardiner isn't paving over anyone's lawn right now. Maybe if you go back 50 years, but go back 100 years and Parkdale was a suburb of Toronto  . Also, it is not as if people downtown don't have cars and don't want to get around quickly. 

With that said, I find it very asinine that the eastbound ramp to downtown from Jamison is blocked off during the morning rush hour, and does further your point that the Gardiner only benefits suburbanites.


----------



## Dimension

Not as bad as Houston


----------



## Homer J. Simpson

Electrify said:


> With that said, I find it very asinine that the eastbound ramp to downtown from Jamison is blocked off during the morning rush hour, and does further your point that the Gardiner only benefits suburbanites.



I wouldn't go that far. The Gardiner allows many companies to have goods and services delivered to them at a cheaper cost. Not all businesses downtown are say... electrical or plumbing contractors. The banks and other institutions need these services and sometimes goods on short notice and the fastest route for a last minute change tends to be highways.

I also seriously doubt that the fine people of Parkdale would like cube vans and large trucks going down Queen St. if there was an alternative.


----------



## city_thing

Taller said:


> I too am unsure of why a grade level road is supposed to be a better solution.


It seems like a very silly idea. At least with raised roads, you can walk under them, thereby keeping the area 'in contact' with the city and not creating a gigantic barrier between the areas. A tunnel would be great, expensive but it would certainly dissolve any barriers and open up new prime locations for development. But replacing a huge busy highway with a road is just.... well... the epitome of bad planning.

Meanwhile, I can't believe how big these freeways in Canada are. I didn't think they'd be that way, they look bigger than many in the US.


----------



## Electrify

Homer J. Simpson said:


> I wouldn't go that far. The Gardiner allows many companies to have goods and services delivered to them at a cheaper cost. Not all businesses downtown are say... electrical or plumbing contractors. The banks and other institutions need these services and sometimes goods on short notice and the fastest route for a last minute change tends to be highways.
> 
> I also seriously doubt that the fine people of Parkdale would like cube vans and large trucks going down Queen St. if there was an alternative.


I think you misunderstood what I wrote. The eastbound ramp from Jameson Ave in Parkdale to downtown is blocked off during the morning rush hour. What this means is that if I lived at Jameson and King and worked at Bay and Front, I would have to take Lake Shore, despite there being a highway right in my backyard.


----------



## TKTKTK

plcmat said:


> Do you really believe that everyone who works in downtown Toronto can afford to live in downtown Toronto? How about the person who cleans your office every night? Should they just buy a condo on the waterfront?


Well, they should be more responsible and not be poor.


----------



## TheCat

I just uploaded the first video of my trip to Ottawa (somewhat late). It includes the entire Highway 416, which connects Highway 401 to Trans-Canada Highway 417. It also includes a short drive in Ottawa and then Gatineau, which is located in another province (Quebec). As I cross the bridge from Ottawa to Gatineau, the style of traffic lights changes. More details are in the video description.

NOTE: The video is available in high quality, and I'm not sure how to directly embed a high quality video (if someone does, please enlighten me), so to be sure, open it in Youtube 

I will also upload a video which covers a large section of Highway 401 going westbound (back to Toronto), including the large section in Toronto with the collector/express system. Hopefully I'll get that done in the coming few days.


----------



## algonquin

Electrify said:


> I think you misunderstood what I wrote. The eastbound ramp from Jameson Ave in Parkdale to downtown is blocked off during the morning rush hour. What this means is that if I lived at Jameson and King and worked at Bay and Front, I would have to take Lake Shore, despite there being a highway right in my backyard.


Theres a sneaky way to avoid that, just carry on as if you're going into the CNE... theres an on ramp on your left thats always open.


----------



## Xusein

Interesting videos. Looks good, the music goes well with that. 

But how were you able to do that? Did someone in the passenger seat take the video or did you? Seriously, I don't understand how some of you here in this forum are able to take pictures (let alone videos) while driving...don't believe that I'd be able to do it. :lol:


----------



## TheCat

^^ Thanks 

I indeed had someone in the passenger seat. In fact, in the last video (the Ottawa one) I was the passenger. My dad and I were sharing the driving task, and I filmed when my dad was the one driving. In the first video (Waterloo) I was the driver and my friend was holding the camera.

However, ideally I would like to be able to film without anyone by devising some sort of camera mount. One of the videos on my Youtube page (Driving to Wasaga Beach on Highway 400) was filmed with me driving and the camera glued to the dash with masking tape, using the case from my audio deck faceplate for support :lol: It was a funny setup, but I used a picture camera back then, and this would not be adequate for a proper video camera.

In the Ottawa video (and the video I'm going to post next, which is hopefully soon) I actually was able to simply place my relatively wide camcorder on the dash. However, I found that the resulting videos had shaking in them, which is hard on the eyes. I also filmed some sections in my upcoming video by holding the camera in my hand (while my dad was driving), but I found that the shake is horrible when the video is sped up.

I am definitely going to try to create a mount for my camera. It can already be placed securely on the dash, but I just need to find a way to secure it so it doesn't move and/or vibrate.

Maybe we should start a thread here about filming/shooting techniques that the members of this forum use to produce all of these wonderful road pictures/movies


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## ChrisZwolle

I have some velcro on my dash and on my camera so I don't have to bother about it when driving.


----------



## TheCat

Chriszwolle said:


> I have some velcro on my dash and on my camera so I don't have to bother about it when driving.


That's exactly what I'm planning to try  Except that I'm not sure about the shaking. Our roads are generally not as smooth sailing as yours. I think they even make some sections "rough" on purpose, to increase traction in the winter.


----------



## WA

Tom 958 said:


> Wow, what an ancient bridge! Are there many of these left?


That reminds me of the NJ Turnpike so much


----------



## hoosier

Chriszwolle said:


> What a massive concrete mess.


I figured massive freeways with huge ramps would constitute a veritable wet-dream for you, since you advocate for more and bigger highways whenever possible.


----------



## sonysnob

I was up in Parry Sound over the civic holiday. The whata gap of the 400 is finally finished now. looks pretty good.


----------



## TheCat

^^ Ooh, looks good  Any extensions up to Sudbury?


----------



## swaugh3

TheCat said:


> ^^ Ooh, looks good  Any extensions up to Sudbury?


A leg of Highway 400 is supposed to open from Sudbury to Burwash Correct Centre next year. Extensions to connect the legs will come after that.


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## sonysnob

^ Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the first phase south of sudbury was due to be open this fall?


----------



## TheCat

I just uploaded the second video from my Ottawa trip to Youtube. I was too lazy to get to it earlier. As in the first video, the camera work isn't great.

This video shows a very big chunk of Highway 401, including the huge collector-express system in Toronto (although in the dark unfortunately). It covers around 300 km of the highway overall, although in several chunks. A more detailed description is available with the video.

For high quality, use this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZXVfKcmJ4Y


----------



## trainrover

LtBk said:


> What do you mean?


We can't excel as well if three of the city's five commuter lines remain limited to rush-hour service...the province needs trains...furthermore and by quite a long stretch at that, Quebec City's addiction to expressways trumps any other city in this country.


----------



## trainrover

English-language CBC Radio was the only media to report there having been a one-metre long chunk of underside of the Turcott interchange that broke away and plumetted down ten metres to the ground, being too close for comfort for administrators at Le Centre Gadbois (a municipal recreational centre). Both a father with his baby in her push chair out walking the Lachine Canal tow path plus a nearby city bus just missed being hit by the debris. I'm kinda flummoxed at how come the car-loving, lone English local daily _The Gazette_ didn't pick up on this bit of newsworthiness...

How very Quebec...


----------



## hkskyline

*Politicians pledge to twin important trade route through New Brunswick *
4 September 2008

ST. STEPHEN, New Brunswick (AP) - The Canadian and New Brunswick governments are partnering to complete a four-lane Route 1 between Saint John and the United States border. Route 1 ends at St. Stephen, across the border from Calais, Maine.

The federal minister for the area, Greg Thompson, says the project will make the highway safer and ensure efficient movement of goods along the important trade corridor that connects Atlantic Canada with the northeastern United States.

Denis Landry, New Brunswick's transportation minister, says his department estimates that twinning the route will reduce the number of fatal accidents in the area by 90 per cent. The $275-million project includes about 17 miles of new four-lane highway and upgrades to about 18 miles of existing four-lane.

The federal Conservative government has agreed to pay half the cost, up to a maximum of $137.5 million.

Work is scheduled to be complete by 2014 at the latest.


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## trainrover

Yesterday, news reported there being something like a one-metre-deep hole in one of the Champlain's girders a year or so ago. The Champlain Bridge accommodates Autoroutes 10, 15, and 20.

Bridges issue may sway election campaign
Many structures need repairs. Tory candidates told to lay off idea of light-rail system on ice span

DAVID JOHNSTON 
The Gazette 

Wednesday, September 17, 2008

The Champlain Bridge is taking a terrible beating from heavy traffic use and needs to be fixed, but it will have to get in line behind other spans in Canada that need repairs or outright replacement, according to federal government authorities in charge of the bridge.

In the wake of a local Radio-Canada/CBC television report Monday night suggesting the Champlain was unsafe for traffic, independent engineers and federal authorities said the Champlain isn't very different from any other major metropolitan bridge: They all need work.

André Girard, vice-president of communications in Montreal for the Federal Bridge Corp. Ltd., said engineers conduct inspections of spans; the findings are used to determine repair priorities, and spending is approved based on those priorities.

On the basis of risk assessments done until 2007, the federal government decided to fund repair work on the Honoré Mercier Bridge instead of the Champlain Bridge. Early this decade, the big priority was the Jacques Cartier Bridge, on which $120 million was spent between 2001 and 2003.

A four-year repair project on the Mercier began in April, at an estimated cost of $145 million. Most of the work being done is on the Mercier's southbound span, which was built in 1934.

Unlike the Mercier, however, the Champlain, constructed in 1965, has a much more pertinent place within the current federal election campaign.

The Mercier connects Montreal with the South Shore riding of Brossard-

La Prairie. In 2006, the Bloc Québécois won 15 of the 16 ridings in the 450 area code - which takes in the South Shore and Laval; the Liberals captured one.

But of the 15 seats taken by the Bloc, the slimmest margin of victory was in Brossard-La Prairie, and the ruling Conservatives have been campaigning hard there for the past 18 months.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government made its biggest political splash on Aug. 18, on the eve of the current election campaign, when federal Transport Minister Lawrence Cannon suggested the federal government was considering tearing down the Champlain and building a new bridge.

Since then, a movement has emerged in the Châteauguay area, led by Andréa Jean, a bus driver with the Conseil Intermunicipal de Transport du Sud-Ouest, to demand any new bridge in Montreal be built close to the Mercier Bridge, not the Champlain.

Over the past two weeks, Jean and one of her passengers have gathered more than 2,000 signatures in favour of a new bridge for their region. Their petition calls for a span that would link LaSalle with the junction of Highway 30 and Route 132, outside the Kahnawake Mohawk reserve's territorial limits.

"It's our region that needs the new bridge," Jean said in Saturday's Soleil de Châteauguay newspaper.

In fact, bridge capacity is strained everywhere on the South Shore, with studies showing traffic density on the Jacques Cartier, Champlain and Mercier to be as high as on bridges anywhere else in North America.

The most recent Champlain structural inspections reflect the higher standards that have been in place since the 2006 collapse of the de la Concorde Blvd. overpass in Laval, killing five people.

Inspections have been made much more rigorous since then; as well, provincial and federal infrastructure budgets have risen accordingly, said Ottavio Galella, an independent consultant with Trafix Consultants of Montreal.

Those who died in the de la Concorde collapse have become "martyrs who have left us with a new kind of culture when it comes to prevention," he said.

A senior engineer with many years of experience on big projects in Montreal, who spoke on condition his name not be used, said the risk-assessment process in and around Montreal has become very good, and governments have made it known they will loosen the purse strings for any bridge that needs work.

Early Monday, before the Radio-Canada/CBC report aired, the South Shore

e-publication Pointsud.ca reported on the silence of federal Conservative candidates on the South Shore with respect to the proposed Light Rail Train project for the ice bridge, situated beside the Champlain Bridge.

Citing sources, Pointsud.ca said Conservative candidates had been specifically instructed not to push the idea of an LRT on the ice bridge anymore - even though the notion has wide regional political support on the South Shore.

Late yesterday, the Liberal campaign on the South Shore issued a news release calling for Cannon to "come clean" on the future of the Champlain.

Pierre Diamond, the Liberal candidate in Saint-Bruno-Saint-Hubert, went further, reiterating his party's support for the LRT project on the ice bridge.

Longueuil Mayor Claude Gladu said late yesterday he doesn't care whether the LRT gets built on the ice bridge or on a new Champlain Bridge.

"I'm not against a new Champlain Bridge - but not in 15 years," he said.

[email protected]

Champlain Bridge: It can't get any busier

It isn't just the Champlain Bridge that's busy. As this chart shows, the three main bridges linking Montreal to the South Shore are among the busiest spans in North America. Engineers measure traffic in terms of bridge density, defined as the annual number of vehicles divided by the number of lanes. By this standard, the Champlain leads the pack.


*Bridge:*..............................Champlain Br (Que)...Lions Gate Br (BC)...G. Washington (NY)...Mercier Br (Que)...Tappan Zee Br (NY)
*Ann'l # of vehicles:* ............... 57 100 000 ............ 25 000 000 .......... 104 700 000 ........... 28 900 000 .......... 50 000 000
*Number of lanes:* ........................... 6 ....................... 3 ........................ 14 .......................... 4 .................... 7
*Volume (vehicles per lane):* ..... *9 517 000** ........... 8 333 000 ............ 7 479 000 ............. 7 227 000 ............ 7 143 000
*Density (# of vehicles ÷ by lanes):* 100% .................. 89% ..................... 80% ..................... 76% ................. 61%

*Bridge: *..................................J. Cartier (Que)...Golden Gate Br (CA)...Verr. Narrows Br (NY)
*Ann'l # of vehicles:* .................. 34 700 000 ........ 41 400 000 ............. 74 000 000
*Number of lanes:* ......................... 5 .......................... 6 ........................ 12
*Volume (vehicles per lane):* ....... 6 940 000 ........... 6 900 000 .............. 6 167 000
*Density (# of vehicles ÷ by lanes):* 73% .................... 74% ..................... 56%

Source: Transport Quebec, Gazette Files

*** - Might this signify the N.A. span with the highest wear and tear? Plus, I wonder how come Cali's Bay Bridge is omitted from the chart...


----------



## trainrover

I don't understand why so much roadway buried alongside le Fleuve Saint-Laurent be so necessary (*bolded* below) ....plus this year's Car Free Day here this week, which news bragged to be the world's largest this year, was hijacked by 'green' vehicles on display, being show-cased...

*Dans la foulée du projet du CHUM*

Pour le maire Tremblay, le recouvrement de l'autoroute Ville-Marie est essentiel
Jean-Claude Grenier

_24 Heures_
24/09/2008 20h14 

Dans l'esprit du maire Gérald Tremblay, il n'y a aucun doute. Les CHU de l'Université de Montréal et de l'Université McGill vont permettre à Montréal de se propulser encore plus loin parmi les grandes technopoles de la santé dans le monde.

«Ces nouveaux centres hospitaliers universitaires doivent aussi se traduire par de formidables réussites en matière d'architecture, de design, d'insertion urbaine et de développement durable.» insiste pour dire le premier montréalais.

*M.Tremblay répète que son administration et le ministère des Transports ont mis en place, en mai dernier, un groupe de travail sur le recouvrement de l'autoroute Ville-Marie et de la rue Notre-Dame.

«Le recouvrement offrirait non seulement de nouvelles possibilités de développement, mais aussi qu'il viendrait réparer une profonde cicatrice au coeur même de notre ville, tout en améliorant la porte d'entrée du Vieux-Montréal.» fait-il part.

Le projet de recouvrement élaboré par les hautes instances municipales prévoit l'aménagement d'espaces verts à plusieurs endroits et aussi la construction d'édifices dans le concept «Campus des sciences de la vie»*

Urgence

Pour le maire Tremblay, les longs discours autour du projet du CHUM doivent prendre fin. «Nous avons une occasion unique de concrétiser des projets qui pavent la voie à la réalisation du plein potentiel de Montréal et du Québec. La position de la Ville pour la réalisation de cet ambitieux projet est ferme. Le gouvernement a fait ses choix et les projets des centres hospitaliers universitaires doivent voir le jour dans les meilleurs délais. Nous en avons un urgent besoin pour assure l'essor de Montréal et du Québec.» de conclure le maire de la métropole.


----------



## trainrover

A tragic anniversary

Two years ago today, five people were killed when an overpass fell in Laval. The province pledged to make the highway system safer, but some experts say those promises haven't been kept

WILLIAM MARSDEN 
The Gazette 

Tuesday, September 30, 2008

Two years after the de la Concorde Blvd. overpass in Laval collapsed, killing five people, the overall safety of Quebec's highway structures has still not improved and in some ways has worsened, engineers and inspectors say.

None of the four major overhauls to the Transport Department promised by the provincial government last year have been carried out.

Although the government is spending billions of dollars to repair or replace crumbling ramps, bridges and overpasses, the work is not being properly supervised, creating a time-bomb situation, experts say.

"All we can say now is that we are not able to reassure the public that the work being done is safe," said Michel Gagnon, president of the Quebec Association of Engineers.

"We have the money that we didn't have, that's true. But we have not been given the tools to manage the money, to manage our projects."

He said the situation is similar to the 1960s, when the province went on a highway infrastructure building binge; the government hired incompetent contractors who built faulty structures that have cost billions to repair.

As was made clear during the Johnson Commission hearings into the de la Concorde overpass collapse of Sept. 30, 2006, almost every aspect of that viaduct's construction was faulty. Design, workmanship, concrete and the general supervision were all of disastrously poor quality.

Little has changed, Gagnon claims.

"I would say the situation is worse than before," he said. "You have more regions than before but you are not in a position to control them. There's a lot of work still to do."

While the infrastructure budget has increased 500 per cent, Gagnon noted, the number of engineers, inspectors and technicians has stayed the same. "In 2003 there was $170 million for structures. Now there is $842 million but the amount of engineers remains at 82. There is no logic to this."

The Gazette asked the Transport Department three times if it wanted to comment. Transport spokesperson Réal Grégoire said the department would not comment because it intends to present its own progress report to the public this week.

The government has imposed a hiring freeze on the Transport Department and is essentially allowing private companies to oversee the work of other private firms without any government supervision.

This has already lead to one disaster. Last year, a new bridge over Highway 50 near Montebello in the Outaouais had to be torn down after the government found the concrete was substandard. The cost of the bridge was $1.2 million. The government refuses to pay the contractor.

After the Johnson Commission last year made public its report on the de la Concorde collapse, criticizing the Transport Department for bad management, sloppy record keeping and a lack of professionalism, the department promised a major shakeup.

It promised billions of dollars to rebuild the province's crumbling highway system, improve training for inspectors and technicians, upgrade internal communications and record keeping, and better inform the public about the status of the highway network. It also promised to create an independent agency to oversee the inspection and maintenance of the highway infrastructure.

Surveillance practices and norms have not changed, said Stéphane Caron, of the Quebec Public Service Union, which represents highway inspectors and technicians.

"Essentially, the norms and practices are the same as before," he said.

"But that's not the problem. The norms are right. The problem is, the frequency of inspections is not enough and the norms are not always respected."

Inspections slated to be done in any given year are too often not performed because of lack of staff, he said.

"The second problem is that even when the inspections are done, the work that has to be done after the inspection is not always done, because of a lack of money or resources."

Eight months after the de la Concorde overpass collapse, the Transport Department launched an inspection blitz of aging bridges and overpasses of similar design.

Inspections of 332 structures revealed 25 needed immediate replacement, 25 required urgent repairs and three more had to be demolished immediately. The total cost of work is estimated at more than $2 billion.

Like Gagnon, Caron claimed there are not enough inspectors to ensure ongoing replacement and repair work is being done right.

In this sense, he says, very little has changed. The Johnson Commission report cited a lack of supervision during construction of the de la Concorde overpass in 1969 as one reason the roadway collapsed. Another was the fact it had not been properly inspected and repair work wasn't done in a timely fashion. When repairs were done, they were not performed properly.

One major setback for provincial Transport Minister Julie Boulet has been her inability to persuade the National Assembly to establish an independent agency to oversee highway repairs and construction.

Saddled with a minority Liberal government, she has been stymied by the Parti Québécois and the Action Démocratique du Québec, who contend such an agency will undermine department accountability.

Boulet claims the agency, which will be run by a board of directors selected by the minister, will be better placed than the civil service to contract work to the best firms because it won't be impeded by government contracting regulations.

The government fears incompetent firms sometimes win contracts simply because they are the lowest bidders.


----------



## guajero

As a kid I always loved the highway between VT and Sherbrooke. The high tension lines that follow it are beautiful.


----------



## TheCat

I just uploaded a new video on Youtube of my trip last weekend. It features Highway 401, a drive on a bunch of country roads, and finally a scenic drive inside a conservation area. The weather was beautiful and the autumn colours were captured in their full glory. Hope you enjoy.

High quality here.


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## sonysnob

maybe a silly question, but how come you took the 401 and not the 403?


----------



## TheCat

^^ Interesting question  According to Google maps, the time to drive via the 403 and exiting on Highway 6 is actually the same as the one via the 401, although the distance is a little larger. Continuing on the 403 all the way to Highway 24 (King George Rd.) adds 1 minute to the time estimate, although the distance increases by more than 10 km.

However, due to the shorter distance, it seems that overall the 401 is the most straightforward way to get there, especially since we actually started the drive from a Nofrills store a little further north than the location that I used as the destination in Google maps (my friend's house), so I guess my GPS chose the 401.

I do agree that for the sake of variety in my videos, the 403 would have made more sense. But that's fine, I'll make more videos next summer  I really want to do the Toronto ring sometime, in off-peak hours when there is little traffic.


----------



## go_leafs_go02

gotta love the vids..keep them up..makes me proud to be from Ontario for some reason. 

401 seems like a logical choice to me as well for how you got there, compared to the 403.


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## TheCat

^^ Thanks


----------



## Haljackey

Nice video! I've seen a few of em now, and you have done a good job!

I too would like to see a vid driving through the 401 from 410-Brock on a clear afternoon. Keep up the great work!

Best,
-Haljackey


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## TheCat

^^ Thanks again.


----------



## trainrover

Turcot project to become election issue, foes vow

The Gazette 

Friday, November 07, 2008

A coalition of community groups that hopes to send a plan to rebuild the aging Turcot Interchange back to the drawing board aims to use the provincial election campaign as a stage for its concerns.

The coalition will question politicians at all-candidates debates and arm itself with a logo and a motto, a public meeting in St. Henri was told last night.

The $1.5-billion plan to raze the elevated tangle of expressways and rebuild the roads mostly at ground level by 2015 flies in the face of Quebec government policies to reduce pollution from vehicles and promote mass transit, critics told the meeting.

"It's good to cross the city on a highway but we have to think about the people who live next to it," Raphaële Leclerc, 27, said.

Leclerc, a trained architect, lives in a 60-unit building on St. Rémi St. that will probably be demolished because of the project.

About 160 housing units in an area of St. Henri known as Tannery Village are to disappear.

The Quebec government should ensure the project allows for possible future shifts in transit trends, Leclerc said. "For instance, will there be smaller cars, more carpooling, more tramways?" she asked.

Members of the coalition, which includes about 20 groups, will also attend provincial environmental impact hearings on the Turcot project, local resident Derek Robertson said. The hearings are to start in February.

"The project risks cutting off the area even more than it is from the rest of the city," he said.

Michel Gariépy, a Université de Montréal urban planning professor, told the meeting the provincial hearings offer a slim chance for residents to have the project modified - if they raise substantive doubts about it.

On the Web: http://mobilisation-turcot.info


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## sonysnob

http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_2_images/Gardiner_2_lg.jpg


----------



## TheCat

I made another video, although this time not of downtown (I just didn't want to open another thread - perhaps the title of this thread should be changed). It is a video of driving in a part of northern Toronto and the Town of Markham, which is a Toronto suburb located directly to the northeast.

High quality available here.


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## Verso

Nice video. Although the driving seems a bit like without specific goal.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Also, is it possible to post regular (non-time-lapsed) videos? Personally, when I watch driving videos, I pay attention to road marking and traffic signage, but it makes it impossible with time-lapsed videos.


----------



## TheCat

Verso said:


> Nice video. Although the driving seems a bit like without specific goal.


Hehe isn't it what this forum is all about? :lol: There actually was a purpose, except we were late to the mall (didn't realize it closed one hour earlier on that day) and then my friends couldn't agree on where we should eat, so we kept asking the GPS to guide us to random food places 



Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Also, is it possible to post regular (non-time-lapsed) videos? Personally, when I watch driving videos, I pay attention to road marking and traffic signage, but it makes it impossible with time-lapsed videos.


Most of the videos are too long. I just usually don't have enough patience to watch real-time driving videos for some reason, whereas when they're sped up and with uplifting music I enjoy them somehow  But perhaps I'll post some real-time later on. At one point I wanted to make a real-time video of driving through a street filled with all-way stop signs, to show the European members of this forum what it's all about, but haven't had the time for that. Now that the weather is becoming snowy, shooting these videos might have to wait a bit.


----------



## Verso

TheCat said:


> Hehe isn't it what this forum is all about? :lol:


Don't know, let's ask Chris. :lol:

I don't have much patience to watch real-time driving videos either. It's fun in RL, but too slow to watch.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ I agree, I make my new video's all 4x speed now  Real-time is still interesting in some circumstances though.


----------



## Timon91

^^Yeah, when driving in the mountains a real-time video must be very interesting. On the A6 in the Netherlands I would prefer the 10x speed


----------



## hkskyline

*N.S. transportation minister needs to explain how private highway would not be a toll highway*

HALIFAX, Nov. 27 /CNW/ -- HALIFAX, Nov. 27 /CNW/ - With the recent debacle on Nova Scotia's only toll highway still fresh in people's minds, the Canadian Union of Public Employees is questioning the MacDonald government's pursuit of yet another private highway.

CUPE Nova Scotia President Danny Cavanagh says, "One of the three P3 projects that this government is still considering is an 85-kilometre private highway from Sutherland's River to the Canso Causeway. Our question to Transportation Minister Murray Scott is, 'how does he expect to build a private highway and not have it be a toll highway?'

"I think given the glaring inefficiencies of our only existing private highway - that were laid bare in last week's snowstorm on the Cobequid Pass - Nova Scotians are in no mood to be giving away any more of our roads to some private corporation in a far away land," says Cavanagh.

"After what happened to those 1,500 stranded motorists, we do not want private companies telling us what we can and cannot do on our roadways. It's just that simple," he says.

"As for Greater Halifax Partnership chief economist Fred Morley, I'd like to thank him for providing such a refreshingly candid view on why the private sector likes P3's. Morley suggests this is actually a great time for P3's because that's where investors can get higher guaranteed returns in these uncertain times. I guess their motto should be, 'When times are tough in the markets...go to the public trough'."

Says Cavanagh, "When every other country in the G20 and every economist worth their salt is saying the days of tying our wagon to the private sector is over, at least until regulatory systems are tightened considerably, it appears to be business as usual for the government of Nova Scotia."


----------



## christos-greece

deasine said:


> You would want to drive there more once u get on the Sea-to-Sky Hwy... although it's a mess right now because of the construction... but it's supposedly the most beautiful "highway" in the world (more like most deadliest here though =P)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Flickr


This road when it finishes will be great!


----------



## hkskyline

I thought the Trans-Canada along the Rockies is far prettier than Sea-to-Sky!


----------



## Timon91

Some pics of route 3 in British Columbia near Grand Forks. Pics are made on the 31st of July this year on a drive from Grand Forks to Greenwood and back.






















































































































:cheers:


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## Verso

Mouth-shutting pics! 


Seriously, how beautiful... :drool:


----------



## Timon91

Verso said:


> Mouth-shutting


Is this another Versadjective?


----------



## Verso

The Versionary (or Versictionary?) will be quite thick in a few weeks. You should write down the Golden Collection.


----------



## Timon91

We already have one for Radi


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## Verso

This one will be quite crazy too, but a bit less mental.


----------



## Timon91

So what we have now:
- Gobsmacking
- Mouth-shutting

Go on, mine aren't as good as yours, Verso


----------



## Verso

Nice, beautiful, nice, beautiful, nice, beautiful...


----------



## Timon91

I'm sorry, rejected


----------



## hkskyline

*$110 fine for driving in bus lanes *
The Ottawa Citizen
12 December 2008

They may be tantalizingly free of buses during the strike, but the bus lanes on the 417 are still off limits to motorists, Ontario Provincial Police reminded drivers yesterday.

In a news release, the Ottawa traffic detachment acknowledged there is some confusion among drivers as to which bus-only lanes they are able to use during the strike.

The city has announced that some of the bus lanes are open to use by commuters, but the lanes on the 417 are still off-limits. Cars using the bus lanes on the 417 "create more havoc than anything else" said Const. Guy Prevost, as conditions become hazardous when those vehicles try to merge back into traffic.

The problem has been particularly prevalent in the bus lanes between Moodie Drive and Eagleson Road.

Motorists caught driving in bus lanes on the 417 are subject to a fine of $110.

The bus lanes on Highway 174, which fall under municipal jurisdiction, are also off-limits to commuters, and restricted to emergency vehicles only.

In the city itself, bus lanes on Albert and Slater streets, the Mackenzie King Bridge, Montreal Road, Rideau Street, east of King Edward Avenue, and Woodroffe Avenue are open to public use.


----------



## ssiguy2

Great news for BC! 
Canada's longest toll-highway is now toll-free! The tolls were $10 one way but for transports it was very high. It was too high so many transports were taking the longer and more dangerous original TCH which is not twinned and has some pretty sharp and dangerous curves. 
All they are doing is what they said they would do. When the highway opened in 1984 the government swore up and down on the bible that when the highway was finished being paid for they would take of all tolls..................that was in 2001 and then tolls stayed on til late this year. The government used it as a cash-cow. 
As far as the connection between the Okanogan Connector and Coquitlam it is now completly 4 laned but not freeway all the way to Merrit and what a waste of money it was. The Okanagan Connector was suppose to be extended west/south to connect with the Coq 15km south of Merrit. If that was done then it would have saved cars 25 minutes and transports approx 35-40 minutes because it would have meant that the transports wouldn't have had to climb the very long and very steep hill before hitting Merrit. It was pure politics. The reason it went via Merrit is because the minister of transportation at the time was from Merrit so he wanted more business and travel going thru the town and the people from the OK/Kelowna have paid the price ever since.


----------



## hkskyline

*Hwy. 407 tolls to rise for peak hours in February *
Canadian Press
1 January 2009

It's going to cost more to drive Highway 407 in February.

The company that operates the toll road says peak-hour tolls for light vehicles between will rise by as much as 0.6 cents to 19.85 cents per kilometre. Off-peak rates will remain unchanged. In addition, a 25-cent charge will be levied on all trips for light vehicles.


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## DanMs

Driving to Elbow Falls


----------



## hkskyline

*Cintra restructures debt from two motorways *

MADRID, Jan 16 (Reuters) - Spanish motorway operator Cintra is restructuring debt related to two motorways it operates in Madrid and Canada, the Ferrovial unit said on Friday.

Cintra has reached an agreement to extend deadlines for debt related to its Radial 4 toll motorway in Madrid and plans to issue bonds to refinance its core asset, Canadian highway 407-ETR, the toll road operator said in a statement.

Cintra plans to issue 500 million Canadian dollars worth of bonds to refinance a previous issue of 400 million Canadian dollars, which is due to expire in June 2009.

Cintra, which operates the 407-ETR together with Macquarie Infraestructures Group and SNC-Lavalin , said it expects to close the bond issue on January 20.

In a separate press note, Cintra said that it had reached an agreement with the 29 creditors financing its Radial 4 toll road to extend its 556.6 million euros of debt related to the motorway.

Of the debt, 196 million euros is now due in 2011 with the remainder expiring in 2032, the operator said.

Cintra owns 55 percent of the R-4, while Itinere is the second biggest shareholder with 25 percent.


----------



## hkskyline

*A Highway to the Canadian Arctic*

*North demands 'road to Tuk'
Arctic highway would trump Russian flag: premier *
CanWest News Service
7 August 2007

On the eve of a three-day trip to the Arctic by Prime Minister Stephen Harper, Northwest Territories Premier Joe Handley is renewing calls for the federal government to keep a promise made 50 years ago by another Conservative prime minister -- John Diefenbaker -- and build a permanent highway to the Arctic Ocean. 

Amid the uproar last week over Russia's flag-planting expedition to the North Pole seabed, Handley said that completing his territory's long-dreamed-of "road to Tuk" -- a year-round, all-weather route linking the coastal town of Tuktoyaktuk to southern Canada via the Mackenzie Valley Highway -- would mean far more than any Russian submarine dive, showing the world this country is serious about reinforcing its presence and asserting its sovereignty in the North. 

Handley calls the planned road to the town of 950 residents "the final step in connecting Canada's three coasts," and has argued that "a highway to the Arctic would help assert Canadian sovereignty over Canadian Arctic waterways as shipping routes become increasingly accessible." 

Vehicles can currently reach Tuktoyaktuk only in winter over ice roads, and even the highway routes that end hundreds of kilometres short of the Arctic coast involve the use of ferries to cross various waterways. 

A $700-million plan to build bridges and complete the highway to Tuktoyaktuk, to be funded largely by the federal government, calls for about 1,000 kilometres of road construction across frozen tundra and along the Mackenzie River. 

The new route would extend the Mackenzie Valley Highway from the town of Wrigley to the Dempster Highway near Inuvik before the final link to Tuktoyaktuk -- envisioned as the future Canadian outlet for tens of billions of dollars worth of Beaufort Sea and Mackenzie Delta gas and oil. 

During the election campaign that brought the federal Conservatives to power in January 2006, Harper wrote to Handley and said his party "supports the concept" of a Mackenzie Valley Highway extension and was "prepared to discuss details regarding the cost, timing and funding of this proposal." 

Handley criticized the federal government for a "lack of real action" on Arctic issues. Dismissing Harper's recent promise to buy up to eight new Arctic Ocean patrol vessels as "weak" because the ships can't penetrate the ice pack year-round, Handley said that an unbroken road to the polar sea would be a fitting symbol of Canada's Arctic aspirations, and a critical step in "ensuring there's adequate infrastructure" for both future development and for the thousands of people already living in the North. 

After Russia's seafloor touchdown at the pole on Thursday, Harper said the feat showed that Arctic sovereignty "is going to be an important issue as we move into the future" and that his government will continue to "put a real emphasis" on the North. 

Along with the fleet of reinforced patrol ships, the federal government has promised to finance a deep-water port in the Arctic, the location of which -- probably Iqaluit or Resolute Bay in Nunavut -- is expected to be revealed during Harper's trip this week. 

The road was first envisioned in 1958 as part of the Diefenbaker government's "Roads to Resources" strategy, but the planned highway stalled in the 1970s.


----------



## Timon91

That would be quite a nice roadtrip :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Fairbanks, Alaska seems to be the closest city, over 800 kilometers away as the bird flies. The nearest Canadian place seems to be Fort Nelson, 1300 kilometers away. But what's the use maintaining a road for a hamlet of 800 inhabitants? That place is really in the middle of nowhere and has an own airport.


----------



## Timon91

Politics, Chris, politics hno:


----------



## Verso

hkskyline said:


> 7 August 2007


:lol:



ChrisZwolle said:


> Fairbanks, Alaska seems to be the closest city, over 800 kilometers away as the bird flies. The nearest Canadian place seems to be Fort Nelson, 1300 kilometers away. But what's the use maintaining a road for a hamlet of 800 inhabitants? That place is really in the middle of nowhere and has an own airport.


Access to the Arctic Ocean, and the road is mostly built anyway, they'd just have to add the last 200 km between Inuvik and Tuktoyaktuk. But the article mentions 1,000 km; I thought the road to Inuvik was year-round, all-weather.


----------



## girlicious_likeme

I hope this will be in the Canadian Federal budget on the 27th; along with the $1 billion Mackenzie Valley Highway Extension and the $16-billion Mackenzie Valley Pipeline. I'll keep my fingers crossed. A town of 1000 residents will go underwater without connection to the rest of Canada. And that's so miserable. 

The economic potential of the Northwest Territories has long been ignored. Inuvik will become the hub of Arctic energy sector in North America, while Tuktoyaktuk will function as a deep-water port. And with the degree of economic activity, more industries will fly north. And Yknife can become the hub of polar flights in the whole Western Hemisphere.

And yah... the news is so long ago that they already changed the premier of the NWT. *Now it's Floyd Roland, who got 3 game suspension due to a fight in hockey!!! :rofl:*

This can create boom in our territory!!! Following these projects is the massive industrialization of Northern Canada; and the conversion of Mackenzie River to a series of hydroelectric power plants, generating more than 11,000 MW of electricity. 

And at the same time, the capital (Yellowknife) will boom like MAD like Dubai and Shenzhen, to around 1,750,000 people; with 4,000,000 in metro. :rofl: 
Hay River follows with 1,000,000 people and 2,500,000 in metro. :rofl:


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## Yamaneko

*Highway to Inuvik not year-round.*



Verso said:


> :lol:
> 
> Access to the Arctic Ocean, and the road is mostly built anyway, they'd just have to add the last 200 km between Inuvik and Tuktoyaktuk. But the article mentions 1,000 km; I thought the road to Inuvik was year-round, all-weather.


The road to Inuvik is gravel-based and depends on a ferry. The ferry cannot operate during break-up, a period of several weeks in the fall and the spring when ice floes make navigation unsafe. The first step would be building a bridge across the river, and the second step might be paving the road. 

Timon91 is right about the politics. Roughly speaking, international law insists that a nation claiming territory must maintain a presence in that territory. Otherwise the neighbors (or extranational entities) can swoop in and claim it for themselves. Thus a bunch of sub-Antarctic and Arctic islands boast meteorological stations and military bases. This is also behind the relocation of Inuit from western Quebec to Resolute and their intense suffering after the relocation.


----------



## Timon91

They should build bridges in order to make it a year round road, but they shouldn't pave it. It's the best thing to leave it gravel. Just widen it would be enough IMO. If they'd pave it, water would get through the asphalt in summer, but it won't sink into the ground (permafrost), so when it freezes in winter, the water becomes ice and will create big bumps in the pavement. See what happened on the paved parts of the Dalton hwy and on the Elliott highway hno:


----------



## hkskyline

Yamaneko said:


> The road to Inuvik is gravel-based and depends on a ferry. The ferry cannot operate during break-up, a period of several weeks in the fall and the spring when ice floes make navigation unsafe. The first step would be building a bridge across the river, and the second step might be paving the road.
> 
> Timon91 is right about the politics. Roughly speaking, international law insists that a nation claiming territory must maintain a presence in that territory. Otherwise the neighbors (or extranational entities) can swoop in and claim it for themselves. Thus a bunch of sub-Antarctic and Arctic islands boast meteorological stations and military bases. This is also behind the relocation of Inuit from western Quebec to Resolute and their intense suffering after the relocation.


I think the greater concern is the Northwest Passage, which becomes international waters without sovereign presence, and not the occupation of the land.


----------



## 54°26′S 3°24′E

Timon91 said:


> They should build bridges in order to make it a year round road, but they shouldn't pave it. It's the best thing to leave it gravel. Just widen it would be enough IMO. If they'd pave it, water would get through the asphalt in summer, but it won't sink into the ground (permafrost), so when it freezes in winter, the water becomes ice and will create big bumps in the pavement. See what happened on the paved parts of the Dalton hwy and on the Elliott highway hno:


This is a question of making the right foundations of the road. A gravel road without proper foundations will work quite well during winter, but will be impassable during spring thaw. What you have to do make sure that you have drainage below the road. This is usually done by laying a thick layer of crushed rock underneath the top layers. Needless to say, this makes road building in northern countries somewhat more expensive than in Australia....


----------



## christos-greece

Sounds really interesting...


----------



## hkskyline

*For whom the bill tolls*
Commuters are crying highway robbery about new charges on Highway 407, but there's little the Ontario government can do
10 January 2009
The Globe and Mail

When a private consortium bought Highway 407 in 1999, a one-kilometre trip on the highway cost 10 cents. Soon that same trip will cost close to 45 cents.

Starting Feb. 1, the highway operator, 407 ETR, will introduce a new 25-cent per-use “Trip Toll Charge” to all light vehicles riding the highway.

That charge will be added to the toll rate, which ranges from 18 to 19.85 cents per kilometre, depending on which part of the highway is travelled and at what time.

The new charge, following on a succession of increases over the past 10 years, has led some motorists to cry highway robbery.

“With the amount that we pay with annual increases, it's just become outrageous,” said Carrie Hunter, a working mother of three, who says her 407 bills average $430 a month. “It's my only viable option for getting to work,” said Ms. Hunter, who lives in Uxbridge but commutes to Brampton.

Taking the 401 instead, she said, would double her daily drive from two to four hours. “I don't mind paying a toll, but the rates this company charges are astronomical. … Between the car payments and insurance and gas and $430 a month for a toll highway, you do feel the pinch.”

And that pinch hurts. Since 1999, the toll rate for a light vehicle during peak hours has nearly doubled, while the consumer price index rose about 22 per cent in the same period. And the toll rate isn't the only cost: Along with the new trip charge, there is also the transponder rental, or the $3.60-per-trip “video toll charge” that applies to those without a transponder.

Those fees have done little to win favour with Ontario motorists, 70 per cent of whom oppose toll roads in general, according to a 2007 poll of 2,674 CAA members.

But the company maintains that its newest charge is essential for reducing congestion and ensuring quick travel times for users.

“It's just another lever,” said Steve Spencer, director of communications for 407 ETR. The trip charge targets those who make frequent short trips, he said, noting that “those trips can lead to some congestion.” He also cited a planned investment of $70-million in lane expansions this year.

Some motorists, such as Ms. Hunter, have suggested that the Ontario government should intervene. But since losing a legal battle with 407 ETR in 2006 over the right to raise tolls without restriction, the province has resigned itself to having no jurisdiction over rates.

“The 407 is an independent company and they're within their contractual rights to introduce [higher] toll rates,” said Nicole Lippa-Gasparro, a spokeswoman for Ontario Minister of Transportation James Bradley.

The former Progressive Conservative government sold the highway for $3.1-billion in 1999. At that time, the province said any toll increase would be pegged to the rate of inflation plus 2 per cent for the first 15 years of the 99-year lease. That would have capped the current price at about 14 cents/km in peak hours.

However, an arbiter later determined that such a clause was not in the contract of sale and that 407 ETR had the right to raise tolls as it pleased. Today, the province only retains the right to penalize the company if it does not meet traffic-flow targets.

Despite complaints from some motorists, Hwy 407 is in expansion mode.. The city of Pickering's planning staff recently recommended that city councillors support a proposed 407 extension of approximately 42 kilometres from the town to Highway 35/115. The move would lengthen the highway to approximately 150 kilometres, stretching from Burlington in the west to Clarington in the east.

Mr. Spencer said he could not speculate as to whether the company planned to raise prices again next year.

*****

Smart numbers

108 kilometres: Length of Highway 407

187 million: Number of vehicle-kilometres travelled per month in 2007

308,000: Average number of trips per day in 2007

$60.3-million: Profit reported by 407 International Inc., the sole shareholder of 407 ETR, in 2007.


----------



## Verso

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=509575 :lol:


----------



## hkskyline

Southern Ontario Road Conditions


----------



## hkskyline

*Woman, dead 7 years, receives $200 bill for using private highway *
Canwest News Service
10 January 2009

An Ontario woman who has been dead for seven years received a bill for almost $200 from the province's privately owned Highway 407 just after Christmas. Clare Ormston, 44, of Brampton died from an asthma attack in 2002. But due to a series of administrative hiccups, her unpaid charges for using the highway in 2002 were not processed until late last year, according to 407 Express Toll Route spokesman Rob Nicol. That is when her husband, Fred, found them waiting in his mailbox. Mr. Nicol said Ms. Ormston had changed her last name from her maiden name, then moved to her husband's current address. After she died, her husband took ownership of her car, whose plates still had outstanding charges from the toll highway. All of the changes prevented a timely delivery of the bill, Mr. Nicol said. Mr. Ormston was reportedly saddened to have received a bill for his late wife. After media contacted the private highway regarding the bill, the balance was dropped.


----------



## hkskyline

*Ontario to expand part of Highway 407 *
TheStar.com
January 28, 2009

The government of Ontario is getting back into the toll highway business, announcing it will own the planned expansion of the privately run Highway 407.

In a surprise move yesterday, Transportation Minister Jim Bradley revealed the extension of the pay-for-use highway from Brock Rd. in Pickering to Highways 35 and 115 in Clarington would be owned and run by the province.

"Clearly, the public agrees that the province of Ontario should own roads in the province of Ontario," Bradley told reporters, noting motorists have been angered by the rising tolls on the private 407ETR.

"The province will control the tolling on the remainder of the highway," he said.

But Bradley had few details on how much it would cost and whether 407 users travelling from the privately run section would have to pay an additional toll when they enter the provincially operated stretch, expected to open in 2013.

"We haven't had a detailed discussion about how the tolling would work," said 407ETR spokesperson Steve Spencer, adding it's still "early."

Bradley said yesterday's announcement coincided with the first in a series of public meetings on the road extension. He insisted there was no intent to bury the news under the avalanche of federal budget coverage yesterday.

The province expects the project to generate 24,000 construction jobs and toll revenues will pay for it.

News that the Liberals will impose their own tolls on what will be a publicly owned highway is a U-turn for Premier Dalton McGuinty.

"I'm personally against tolls, and we're going to make sure we have the kind of financing package in place that eliminates the need for tolls," he said on June 15, 2007. His comments came more than a year after his government lost the last of seven court challenges against 407 International Inc. over toll hikes.

Since taking office in 2003, McGuinty has argued the company, which in 1999 paid $3.1 billion to the Progressive Conservative government for a 99-year lease to run the 407, was violating its contract.

"When you're dealing with big transportation issues, putting something like that in the hands of a private corporation that's only interested in how much money they can make is not going to provide a good public solution," said NDP Leader Howard Hampton.

Progressive Conservative Leader John Tory said the Liberals' long-awaited announcement was politically motivated, given the by-election he's contesting in the area.

Tolls will place an unfair burden on the residents of Durham Region, said Pickering Councillor Rick Johnson, but, "We do need more lanes and we'll take them at whatever the costs.

"We've got to move goods and services, we've got to create jobs for Durham Region," he said.

Drivers, however, have been clear they don't want tolls, said Canadian Automobile Association spokesperson Edyta Zdancewicz, adding the CAA plans to discuss the issue with Queen's Park officials.

For the Geisbergers, it's a good news-bad news scenario.

"We truck our own crops and the 401 is crazy busy so (the extension) is a plus," says Lisa Geisberger. She grows corn, canola, wheat and soy beans with her husband, Rick, on a farm near Bowmanville, about a kilometre from the planned route. "But it's costly using the 407. I don't like the idea of paying more tolls."

While she sees the need for the extension, she won't be happy about being able to "see it and hear it."

Marty Collier of Healthy Transport Consulting, which hosted a conference on tolls, said if you build roads, they'll be tolled.

"The existing roads can accommodate everybody. They just have to be used more efficiently," he said, adding that Ontario should be looking at GPS-based toll systems like those used in the Netherlands.


----------



## Electrify

I need to get a transponder. I was hoping to hold off until gas is over $1/liter to save money on fuel, but that highway is a lifesaver when running late.


----------



## Xusein

407 sure sounds expensive, I'd probably not drive it at all if I was there. I remember 10 years ago, when my family and I were in Toronto, we took that highway once, and then we got a bill a few weeks later after we got back home. We didn't even know it was a toll highway, because back then we just thought that toll booths were necessary...how, the times have changed.


----------



## hkskyline

*Tory upset with timing of announcement on eastern extension of Highway 407 *
29 January 2009
The Globe and Mail

Progressive Conservative Leader John Tory dismissed as “political show business” yesterday, the Liberal government's about-face on its stand on toll highways. The provincial government announced on Tuesday that it would own a new tolled extension of Highway 407 that will run through the provincial riding of Haliburton-Kawartha Lakes-Brock, where Mr. Tory is currently seeking a seat in a by-election.

As late as 2007, the provincial government ruled out new toll roads in the province.

In a phone call from a campaign stop in Lindsay, Ont., Mr. Tory said he did not believe Transportation Minister Jim Bradley's assertion that the announcement and the by-election were unrelated.

“They haven't done a thing on this in the last two years,” Mr. Tory said.

In a press release, he called the timing of the announcement “convenient.” Former Conservative MPP Laurie Scott, who resigned from the seat to let Mr. Tory run, had long called for the extension east to Highway 35/115.

At a press conference, Mr. Bradley denied the link. “I can tell you this has nothing to do with that whatsoever,” he said.

Mr. Tory also slammed the government for not setting a faster timetable for the highway, which he called “a crucial economic infrastructure project” for the area. He said regulation and operation of the project should have been “wide open” to private bids and that the government missed an opportunity to leverage control of the new expansion in exchange for better toll rates on the entire highway.

A spokesperson for 407 ETR, the private company that owns the existing section of the highway, said that the government had not spoken with the company about the expansion and that it was too early to speculate as to whether it would play any role in the new stretch of the road.

Mr. Bradley said the new section of Highway 407, torun from Pickering to Highway 35/115 in Clarington, will be owned by the province and all tolls will flow into its coffers. This is in contrast to the existing Highway 407, which now ends at Brock Road in Pickering. In 1999, the Progressive Conservative government at the time sold the existing portion of the highway to 407 ETR.

Mr. Bradley said members of the public are much more comfortable with the province collecting the tolls rather than a private company.

“We have never been comfortable with the previous setup,” he told reporters. “The public agrees that the Province of Ontario should own the roads. I think they believe as well that we should have a say in the tolls that are charged instead of being arbitrarily [set] by a private company.”

Mr. Bradley said it is difficult to say how much the extension will cost until the government receives construction proposals from potential bidders. He also said that the mechanism for collecting tolls has yet to be discussed.

Region of Durham chairman, Roger Anderson hailed the announcement as “absolutely crucial for growth east of Toronto” and said that he expected the project to generate hundreds of jobs.

With a report from Jennifer Lewington


----------



## geogregor

Hi, guys.
How about missing freeway link between Quebec and New Brunswick? It should connect Autorute 20 with Brunswick Hwy 2 as replacement for Hwy 158 in Quebec. It would fill gap in freeway between Toronto and Halifax.

Maybe now, when politicians talk about stimulating economy by investing in infrastructure (like Obama), such project would have a chance?

Any news about such link?


----------



## deasine

*British Columbia: New Port Mann Bridge, Highway 1 Expansion, South Fraser Perimeter Road*









Port Mann Bridge
Source: Ministry of Transportation, Government of British Columbia









Port Mann Bridge & South Fraser Perimeter Road (underneath)
Source: Ministry of Transportation, Government of British Columbia

More information about the Port Mann Bridge can be found at the Bridges thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=802232



> Port Mann Bridge to be 10 lanes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Premier Gordon Campbell (right) and Transportation and Infrastructure Minister Kevin Falcon officially launch construction of new Port Mann Bridge and unveil the new bridge design.
> 
> Photograph by: Glenn Baglo, Vancouver Sun
> METRO VANCOUVER -- The provincial government announced today it will build a $2.46 billion 10-lane bridge to replace the aging Port Mann Bridge.
> 
> The bridge, which will be built to accommodate rapid bus service and future rapid transit, will be financed by tolls over the 40-year tenure of the contract.
> 
> Commuters will pay $3 each way to access the new bridge, although there will be concessions for truckers, bus and taxi drivers, Transport Minister Kevin Falcon said.
> 
> The bridge is expected to be built by 2013.
> 
> The province had originally planned to twin the Port Mann, but said it would be cheaper to build a new bridge and save on maintenance costs.
> 
> The project also includes widening Highway 1, adding two lanes each way on the east side of the bridge and an extra lane in both directions on the west side.
> 
> Premier Gordon Campbell said the new bridge over the Fraser River will create 800 jobs and cut commuting time by one-third.
> 
> "A single span will clear the bottlenecks that have plagued commuters for years and years," he said.
> 
> Falcon said new infrastructure is needed to accommodate another million more people in Metro Vancouver in 20 years.
> 
> The capital cost of the project, including upgrades to 37 km of Highway 1 on either side of the bridge, is approximately $2.46 billion, the province said. The total cost, including operating and maintenance, rehabilitation and interest, will be released when the contract is finalized but is expected to be approximately $3.3 billion.
> 
> Of that, the province is financing $1.15 billion in the form of a repayable loan, which is beingmatched by bank financing. The proponent is putting forward their own equity to pay for the remaining $1 billion, the release said.
> 
> NDP MLA Bruce Ralston said the deal to build a new bridge - at a higher cost - was made after plans were announced to twin the bridge.
> 
> "It seems this was negotiated after the contract was awarded," he said, adding other bidders weren't offered the same opportunity.
> 
> © Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun


Additional Images and Renderings








Premier Gordon Campbell's Announcement
Source: Glenn Baglo from the Vancouver Sun









Premier Gordon Campbell
Source: Glenn Baglo from the Vancouver Sun









Existing Port Mann
Source: Glenn Baglo from the Vancouver Sun









Pile Driver, officially starting construction on the Port Mann Bridge
Source: Glenn Baglo from the Vancouver Sun









3D Rendering of existing Port Mann
Source: Screen Grab from the Vancouver Sun









3D Rendering of new Port Mann
Source: Screen Grab from Vancouver Sun









3D Rendering of new Port Mann
Source: Screen Grab from Vancouver Sun









3D Rendering of new Port Mann
Source: Screen Grab from Vancouver Sun









Toll Plaza and Approach to Port Mann
Source: Screen Grab from Vancouver Sun









Toll Plaza and Approach to Port Mann
Source: Screen Grab from Vancouver Sun









RapidBus Service on Port Mann
Source: Screen Grab from Vancouver sun

New Videos from the Ministry of Transportation about Port Mann and SFPR
http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/gateway/info_centre/multimedia.htm


----------



## go_leafs_go02

good to see it.
I'm not impressed with BC's highways, they're tight, narrow..interchanges are completely random and are confusing to navigate if you don't know the area. 

And they can get rid of that Pattulo bridge sooner than later too


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## isaidso

That new Port Mann bridge looks awesome. 10 lanes? Is it enough or are there other crossings a little further down?


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## Electrify

^^ There's another bridge that connects downtown Vancouver to North and West Vancouver, but because of its design it is HIGHLY congested (having been on it, I'm talking 'makes the DVP flow like silk' congestion...).


----------



## mgk920

Electrify said:


> ^^ There's another bridge that connects downtown Vancouver to North and West Vancouver, but because of its design it is HIGHLY congested (having been on it, I'm talking 'makes the DVP flow like silk' congestion...).


Isn't that the Lions Gate bridge?

Mike


----------



## hkskyline

Electrify said:


> ^^ There's another bridge that connects downtown Vancouver to North and West Vancouver, but because of its design it is HIGHLY congested (having been on it, I'm talking 'makes the DVP flow like silk' congestion...).


----------



## rick1016

Are there any plans to update that bridge?


----------



## deasine

Not at the moment but Vancouver Parks Board estimates the end of the Lions Gate lifetime is 2030. Many Vancouverites over at SSP and SSC believe in a tunnel option... four lanes expandable to six in the future. Really, the Lions Gate for the most part, is one of the better bridges... there are way more in the region that needs more attention. Traffic on the Lions Gate really isn't THAT bad compared to everything else. If there is a tunnel, I would like this bridge dedicated to LRT/transit and pedestrians.


----------



## zivan56

rick1016 said:


> Are there any plans to update that bridge?


It was "updated" around ~2000 with a new and wider bridge deck replacing the original one from 1938.




go_leafs_go02 said:


> good to see it.
> I'm not impressed with BC's highways, they're tight, narrow..interchanges are completely random and are confusing to navigate if you don't know the area.


Trust me, even if you are from here and unless you drive daily to those places, it is still random and confusing. My favourite drive is to Delta from Downtown, which involves about 3 illogical interchanges, very narrow highways which are improperly sloped in turns, and signage which doesn't help at all.


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## Smelser

mr.x said:


> And here on the west coast in British Columbia, there have been visions of a 30-40 km 4-lane bridge/underground tunnel/undersea tunnel from Vancouver to Vancouver Island, costing as much as $20 billion.....quite difficult to build considering this is an earthquake zone.



No such bridge will ever be built. To cover its costs tolls of about $200 would be needed. The only way to make such a project viable would be to dismantle the BC Ferry fleet and furthermore prohibit any other company from providing a cheap ferry passage as an alternative.


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## erj-boy

hum... talking about canadian highways... Montreal is finally gonna get a belt way with the completion of highway 30... isn't it nice? I know it's a bit off topic as everybody is talking about Toronto but hey! Montreal's cool too!


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## Haljackey

Smelser said:


> No such bridge will ever be built. To cover its costs tolls of about $200 would be needed. The only way to make such a project viable would be to dismantle the BC Ferry fleet and furthermore prohibit any other company from providing a cheap ferry passage as an alternative.


If Vancouver Island had the population of Japan or Taiwan I'd see the reason for it, but there just isn't enough people on the island to warrant its construction.

Ferry service seems fine to me.


----------



## lpioe

erj-boy said:


> hum... talking about canadian highways... Montreal is finally gonna get a belt way with the completion of highway 30... isn't it nice? I know it's a bit off topic as everybody is talking about Toronto but hey! Montreal's cool too!


Are there any plans to get a full ring, i.e. connect highway 30 and 640?


----------



## erj-boy

lpioe said:


> Are there any plans to get a full ring, i.e. connect highway 30 and 640?


well BAPE called for a bridge or a tunnel under Saint-Laurent river east of the city, in Repentigny and Varennes, but it is just a suggestion from a comittee that has no political power and MTQ hasn't done anything yet that would suggest such a connection between both highways.

There are also some talks about a bridge over Deux-Montagnes lake to connect both highways west of Montreal, in Vaudreuil.


----------



## xzmattzx

Has work finished on the QEW in St. Catharines yet? Also, is there any discussion of extending the expressway portion of Highway 406 from Port Robinson Road south to the terminus at Main Street in Welland?


----------



## Haljackey

This is a rare sight:


----------



## Buddy Holly

Damn that thing is huge. Why was it empty?


----------



## Xusein

I'm almost sure that this pic is 401 on Yonge Street....maybe Bayview...kinda odd because last time I was there, it was packed.

Maybe it was taken on a very early Sunday morning or something. :dunno:


----------



## *UofT*

Xusein said:


> I'm almost sure that this pic is 401 on Yonge Street....maybe Bayview...kinda odd because last time I was there, it was packed.
> 
> Maybe it was taken on a very early Sunday morning or something. :dunno:


Yup Bayview it is! 

It is pretty odd for it to be empty, even during 3 am drives i see it with quite a bit of traffic at times


----------



## mgk920

^^
Looooooong time-exposure with a very, very tiny aperture (makes moving vehicles vanish)?

:wink2:

Mike


----------



## enkay

Maybe it was during that explosion that shut down the 401 for a section?
Something to that effect happened last year


----------



## sonysnob

^ This was taken in the aftermath of the Sunrise propane explosion. The 401 was closed from the 404 to the 400 for a day as a precaution.

Awesome photo.


----------



## Haljackey

sonysnob said:


> ^ This was taken in the aftermath of the Sunrise propane explosion. The 401 was closed from the 404 to the 400 for a day as a precaution.
> 
> Awesome photo.


Correct.

This reminds me of those ultra-wide streets in Pyongyang. Only a select few can afford cars so the roads are barely used.

Example:


----------



## Nexis

thats someone else's photo editing ,and yes it was taken during last year's Explosion in Toronto, it was a week before my GTA Vacation so i was watching the CBC news Closely


----------



## Haljackey

Indeed, Nexis.

This is typically what the 401 looks like on a normal day:


----------



## yin_yang

::shudders::


----------



## magnifera.indica

nice highways


----------



## Haljackey

This is pretty dam wide:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> This is pretty dam wide:


The picture? Or the freeway? Or both?


----------



## Haljackey

ChrisZwolle said:


> The picture? Or the freeway? Or both?


lol, I guess both are. :lol:


----------



## TheCat

Hehe it's one of those times you're better off being on the collectors than the "express"


----------



## Haljackey

Here's some more massive pics of Toronto's massive highways:

401:
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/3960142.jpg

http://URL220.imageshack.us/URL220/3581/evacuatedhighway401.jpg

http://URL222.imageshack.us/URL222/9354/23208136036624e24209ohp4.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/The_Basketweave_Toronto.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/401_Traffic_Jam.jpg

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/10433471.jpg

400:
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/3465703.jpg

427:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Highway_427_at_Burnhamthorpe.jpg

404:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Highway_404_from_Sheppard_Avenue_(North).jpg

407:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2479/3582669486_c42f4e6a0e_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3497/3821694561_161eefa0ec_o.jpg


----------



## mattec

They look like most other major cities' freeways..

Like Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, San Sntonio, LA, Miami, D.C., ect.


----------



## TheCat

I posted a new video of a drive I made back in July 

Includes a drive on the 401 in the middle of the collector-express system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUsZDzji81w&hd=1


----------



## hkskyline

*Trucker gets $305 ticket for smoking in his rig
Ontario law considers interior of truck to be an 'enclosed workplace'*
The Canadian Press
9 October 2009

The burning question about precisely where a person can smoke these days is flaring up again in Ontario, where a 48-year-old trucker faces a $305 fine for lighting up on the job: while driving his big rig along Canada's busiest highway.

The man, who hails from London, Ont., was headed for Windsor when he was pulled over Wednesday along Highway 401 and given a ticket under the Smoke-Free Ontario Act.

The law, considered a Canadian standard-setter when it was passed in 2006, forbids smoking in all workplaces and enclosed public spaces, including buildings, structures or vehicles worked in or frequented by employees, according to the government's website.

"Examples of an enclosed workplace include the inside of a trailer office on a construction site, the inside of a loading dock, or the inside of a delivery truck," the site says.

Ontario Provincial Police Const. Shawna Coulter said the law is very explicit about what constitutes a workplace.

"It says the inside of any place, building, structure or vehicle that is part of the employee's workplace, which if you're driving a truck for long periods of time - that becomes your workplace."

The driver, whose name was not released, could have good reason to fight the ticket in court, said Doug Switzer, vice-president of the Ontario Trucking Association.

The provincial law ought not to apply in the case of federally regulated trucking companies that operate in other provinces or the United States, Switzer said - nor should it be brought to bear on truckers who own and operate their own rigs and work alone.

"It is a little complicated on the enforcement end because you've got thousands of people from OPP, municipal police forces and health unit enforcement staff, not all of whom are versed in the subtle nuances of the trucking industry or the smoking legislation," he said.

Julie Rosenberg, a spokeswoman for Ontario's Ministry of Health Promotion, refused to comment Thursday on whether or not the law would apply in the case of a truck belonging to a federally regulated company.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

I would love to go on that highway (101 isn't it?).


----------



## Nexis

Its the 401 , the 101 is in California


----------



## DanielFigFoz

Ah yes, thats it., I knew that the US Route 101 was in California, and I knew that the on in Toronto was something hundred and one, but wasnt sure what hundred.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Nexis said:


> Its the 401 , the 101 is in California


Hwy 101 Starts in Lund BC, and suposedly runs all the way to the tip of South America. I think it's referred to as the "Inter American Highway."


----------



## Robosteve

Fargo Wolf said:


> Hwy 101 Starts in Lund BC, and suposedly runs all the way to the tip of South America. I think it's referred to as the "Inter American Highway."


That's the Pan American Highway, but as far as I know it doesn't have a continuous route number, it's just referred to as the Pan American Highway. It also has a gap between North and South America.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Robosteve said:


> That's the Pan American Highway, but as far as I know it doesn't have a continuous route number, it's just referred to as the Pan American Highway. It also has a gap between North and South America.


It's been referred to by both names and the gap is just south of Panama City. It's called the Darien Gap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dari%C3%A9n_Gap


----------



## Jody Thornton

*QEW Highway Pics From the 1960s and 1970s*

Hi Folks:

Some time back, I remember seeing somone posting an image of the QEW (modern-day Gardiner), just as it's approaching the Humber River. I tried the Urban Toronto Forum, but with no luck there. It was from 1972, only a couple years before the rennovation, and the removal of the "Lucky Lion" statue. The picture was facing west.

What I've also been looking for is QEW pics of the Traffic Circle, at Centennial Parkway in Hamilton. I was hoping to find close-ups of the railway overpasses.

In fact I would love to find close-ups of the QEW (circa 1960s and 1970s) for the entire Hamilton-Burlington stretch, if possible. Just thought I'd ask.

I have seen Cameron's site (I am quite a regular visitor). So I hope to find other closeup images of the areas I've described.

Well hopefully someone knows where I may find something. Just a curious highway geek and QEW enthusiast.

Cheers,
Jody Thornton
(Hamilton, Ontario)


----------



## hkskyline

*Don't like 407 billing? Stay off the highway, owner says*
Toronto Star
December 01, 2009









_The Conservative government sold the 407 toll road to a private firm for $3.1 billion in 1999. (Nov. 30, 2009)
DAVID COOPER/TORONTO STAR_

The 407 toll road has some advice for people who don't like its billing practices or the way it applies provincial laws meant to protect consumers: Don't drive on our highway.

Our column Monday explained how the 407 says anyone who accepts an invoice from it and subsequently drives on the road has entered into an "agreement" to allow it to pursue the driver for the amount, plus annual interest of 26.82 per cent, for up to 15 years.

The 407 says this alleged agreement is allowed under Section 22 of the Ontario Limitations Act, which says companies must start legal action to collect an unpaid debt within two years of issuing the bill, but the time period can be extended by agreement between both parties.

We believe an agreement is a conscious and deliberate decision made by both parties, and so do some prominent lawyers who are familiar with the act. We don't believe sending someone a bill that says they've agreed to allow themselves to be pursued for up to 15 years for an unpaid balance constitutes a legitimate agreement. Neither do the lawyers we've talked to.

We called Steve Spencer, who deals with media for the 407, to ask what legal authority it relies on to assume it need only send a bill to someone who later drives on the toll road to conclude it has a legal agreement to pursue them for 15 years for an unpaid balance.

The conversation was like one from the Mad Hatter's tea party.

"I'm not following (your question) exactly," said Spencer, when we asked about the legal underpinnings of its billing approach.

"So there's the Limitations Act, obviously, and there's an area of the Limitations Act which allows you to, um, you need to obviously, you know, when we send a bill that language is on every single bill."

Huh?

"Clearly, if somebody uses the highway as a video driver only, we don't have an option to sit down and talk with that person, obviously, they're just travelling on our highway. That's why it's on every bill, that's why it's there, it's in bold."

Bull, we said. You have no authority to make such assumptions. How can you say drivers have agreed to this?

"Say you got the bill and you didn't agree to that," said Spencer. "So you pay your bill, so if you didn't agree to that, there would be a perfectly simple choice."

So are you saying drivers shouldn't use the road, if they didn't agree to all terms printed on their bill, we asked.

"Yeah, I guess," replied Spencer. "That's where you're going, right?"

Aren't you telling people the Limitations Act doesn't apply to the 407?

"Not at all," he said. "In fact, this is completely covered under the Limitations Act."

It made our head spin. We can imagine how frustrating it is for people fighting a bill that's padded with huge interest charges.

Stay tuned, victims. We'll sort this out, sooner or later.


----------



## hkskyline

*You agreed to let 407 waive your rights, right? *
Toronto Star
2 December 2009

Wanted: Drivers who knowingly agreed to allow the 407 toll road to pursue them for up to 15 years over an unpaid balance.

We reported Tuesday on the 407's insistence it has an "agreement" with everyone who accepts its invoice and then drives on its road to permit it to chase them for up to 15 years if they don't pay, and charge 26.82 per cent interest, compounded annually.

It sounds like good medicine for deadbeats dodging legitimate toll charges, but hundreds of people have told us about outrageous billing abuses by the 407, which we've documented in previous stories.

Ontario's Limitations Act requires businesses to start legal proceedings to collect on unpaid balances within two years of the bill, but section 22 allows the time period to be extended by up to 15 years if the parties involved agree to it.

Lawyer Graeme Mew, an expert in the Limitations Act, told us Monday that section 22 was intended to apply to businesses that knowingly agreed to extend to the two-year limit, and not individual consumers.

Incredibly, a 407 spokesperson tried to tell us section 22 provides it with authority to send an invoice with terms printed on the back, then conclude the driver who received it has agreed to those terms.

Mew described the 407's interpretation as self-serving and "extremely draconian," adding he didn't think it would survive any court challenge initiated by the province, which has blamed the former Progressive Conservative government for the situation and shown no interest in taking on the 407 again.

Kitchener lawyer Mark Silverthorn, who specializes in helping people with debt problems, sent Star consumer columnist Ellen Roseman an email noting that "the expiry of Ontario's two-year statute of limitations does not extinguish a debt ... (but) merely gives the consumer an affirmative defence" to use in legal proceedings against them.

Since the 407 believes it has agreements with every driver who accepts its invoice and then drives on the road to waive their rights under the Limitations Act, it's got us wondering if there is even one driver out there who is aware they have entered into such an agreement.

If there is, please let us know. We'll be counting, but won't be surprised if we can add them up on our fingers, with a few left over.


----------



## DrJoe

*401 Driving Tour*

The 401 is one the busiest highways in the world. It is the main highway of southern Ontario and serves a number of purposes from being an interprovinicial, commuter, tourist and shipping highway.

In red.









Looking at that map...to the left the 401 meetsup with connections to heading to the US. Toronto is centred around the cluster of highways you can see. To the right it meets up with A-20 in Quebec.

These pictures are going form west to east.

Meager beginning/end near the Canadian/US border. Windsor, Ontario.



















Town of Lakeshore


















Municipality of Chatham-Kent









County of Elgin (just noticed someone is pulled over on the right side, lol)









City of London


















County of Middlesex









County of Oxford









Region of Waterloo


















City of Cambridge









County of Wellington


















Town of Milton









Town of Halton Hills


















City of Mississauga













































City of Toronto








































































City of Pickering



























Town of Ajax









Town of Whitby









City of Oshawa









Municipality of Clarington


















Town of Port Hope









Town of Cobourg


















Town of Brighton









City of Belleville









Township of Loyalist









City of Kingston


















Count of Leeds & Grenville









City of Brockville









Township of South Stormont









Township of South Glengarry









The 401 then ends going into Quebec where it becomes Autoroute 20 and thats where we'll finish.

A-20









Source of pictures: http://www.onthighways.com/index.html


----------



## x-type

it is so funny to si american styled bilingual signs


----------



## Haljackey

Excellent tour! Nice arrangement of pics, shows the highway in very urban and very rural settings.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> The 401 is one the busiest highways in the world.


I think we can safely say it's THE busiest in the world. The AADT peaks at 425,000. The closest is the I-405 in California at 390,000 Annual Average Daily Traffic. In Europe, the busiest roads are around 300,000 (Spanish M-30, French A4, maybe MKAD) and in Asia the highest is probably on some ten-lane freeway in Beijing or South Korea, I guess around 250,000 AADT. In South America, the highest volumes may be found in Buenos Aires and Sao Paulo. Other freeways on that continent lack capacity to get above 250,000. In Africa, the busiest are probably somewhere in South Africa or Egypt, but again, these are unlikely to top 250,000, same as Australia.


----------



## Haljackey

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think we can safely say it's THE busiest in the world.


I agree with this statement, but just how long will the 401 retain this title? There's crazy traffic in eastern Asia, especially in the larger Chinese cities. Tons of highways are being built and every one becomes clogged with traffic as soon as they open.

As soon as you see a project similar to the I-10's (katy freeway) reconstruction or the 401's collector/express setup in China it will certainly take the crown.


Also, did the opening of the 407 10 years ago affect traffic flow on the 401? I'm sure if it wasn't there traffic volumes would be certainly higher than 425k.
-And if the Gardiner is destroyed, the 401 will become even more crowded.


----------



## Haljackey

sonysnob said:


> The MTO has launched a study for the widening of the 401 between Cambridge and Guelph which suggests that an express-collector system could be constructed between the GTA West corridor and Highway 6-North. I think this is the wrong approach too. GTA west should tie into Guelph and ideally the new Highway 7 that is planned between K/W and Guelph. IF, and I say IF, the MTO/Ontario Government was smart, GTA west will not have a lot of interchanges. This will facilitate through movements well, and would not encourage sprawl through Wellington County.


I don't think a collector/express system is needed past the 407. The highway could be widened to 8 or 10 lanes with HOV lanes to the Highway 8 Interchange in Kitchener.

I have my doubts that a new freeway will get built in this region. Just look at the proposed 424. Too much opposition and the government is in enough trouble right now with the transit funding cuts and the crazy pharmacy crisis going down.

Although temporary, it could shift the Liberals out of power and thus could affect the government's intentions in regards to highways, be it for the better or worse.



> Finally, somebody had better start thinking about another east-west corridor (or two) in York Region. All east-west transportation movements across Southern Ontario must pass through the narrow tract between Lake Ontario and Lake Simcoe. Without some sound planning and foresight, this entire corridor could be gobbled up with residential subdivisions in the not to distant future.


You may get your wish. According to this map (off Wikipedia which is in no way fully accurate) a route may get pushed through the south shore of Lake Simcoe.










But like I said, I don't see any new highways getting built in the near or mid future.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The 404 may be extended to the east side Lake Simcoe, turning east from it's originally northbound direction.


----------



## sonysnob

I don't know what they are going to do with the Highway 24 corridor. The so-called 424 was included in the Places to Grow Legislation, so it would seem that our current government is pretty keen on building something.

The existing highway is shot. The pavement is gone, and the alignment is far, far too narrow. Intersection improvements were carried out at selected junctions a couple of years ago, but the road really needs capacity and safety upgrades.

It's too bad so much opposition has been encountered. Even if the MTO decided just to four lane the existing highway, it would still dump you out in Downtown Galt, which makes the existing highway _almost_ useless.

Maybe if the MTO finally got around to building the Morriston by-pass on Highway 6 some of the traffic could be diverted from Highway 24.


----------



## Haljackey

...Or maybe build a new route directly to the Hamilton region. That would be far more effective because a lot of traffic using highways 6 and 24 are bound for this region. A route could be designed so that it does not go through any major towns but the alignment would cut its way through a lot of farmland and the greenbelt. 

There will certainly be a lot of opposition to this route, but I don't think there will be as much compared with building the 424.


----------



## sonysnob

^ So it would roughly follow Highway 8 then?

The trick to this alignment that I see is how to link it with the 401 in Cambridge and Highway 403 in Hamilton. I wouldn't mind seeing the Cambridge West by-pass brought back in, however, I think the reason that was initially killed was because the province didn't want to encourage development to the west of the Grand in Cambridge.


----------



## Gil

ChrisZwolle said:


> The 404 may be extended to the east side Lake Simcoe, turning east from it's originally northbound direction.


It would have to! If it went any further north you'd require a causeway to cross Lake Simcoe. I'm not entirely sure what the long-term plans are for the 404 once it reaches the east shore of Lake Simcoe. Continuing north to Orillia to provide an additional access route would seem the most likely. Continuing east only takes you into rural and cottage areas which don't really need a 400-series highway right now.

The Bradfor Bypass is the connecting highway shown heading west from the 404. The northern extension of the 427 is being bogged over which regional municipality it will be built in. York counters it has the narrower crossing of the Oak Ridges Moraine, an environmentally-sensitive area, while Peel argues its routing would provide greater access to more populated areas, and thus through less farmland.

As for the proposed Mid-Peninsula expressway, I don't see why they just extend the Lincoln Alexander Parkway to Niagara as opposed to building another expressway parallel to it to the south?


----------



## sonysnob

Gil said:


> As for the proposed Mid-Peninsula expressway, I don't see why they just extend the Lincoln Alexander Parkway to Niagara as opposed to building another expressway parallel to it to the south?


I can. The Linc is rammed, and while it could be widened, it can only easily be widened to six lanes. Plus, given that it has an interchange every 1.6km, it would poorly serve long distance traffic.


----------



## Haljackey

Here's something a little different:










That's the Veterans Memorial Parkway, a 4 lane at-grade expressway in London. The road used to be two lanes and clogged with traffic for a long time. The lack of funding during the upgrade meant interchanges were not built and thus intersections remained. If you drive on it you'll see tons of skid marks on the road due to cars slamming on the breaks when a light turns red. It sucks, but it is better than it used to be.

Because today is Earth Day, a massive tree-planting project is underway along the route to "_put more park in the parkway_".

This route has also had 3 different names over the years (Highway 100, Airport Road, and the Veterans Memorial Parkway). I guess they couldn't make up their mind. :nuts:


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Went for a drive today and got some pics of the Trans Canada Highway at the east end of Kamloops. The highway is not motorway here, though there are some grade separated intersections.

The pic is on the dark side, because of the clouds. 









Near the city limit, which is 3 KM down the highway at the HWY 1/97 junction.


----------



## Bartolo

sonysnob said:


> ^ Very thorough list.
> 
> I have just a few observations about what I am seeing currently.
> 
> I really don't like the fact that the QEW through Halton Region is only seeing one additional HOV lane per direction added. Given the complexity of the construction that is ongoing, I think the cross-section should have been widened to 8+2. That doesn't really fall in line with the province's TDM objectives, but I think the general taxpayer would be better served with an additional general purpose lane in each direction.
> 
> The MTO has launched a study for the widening of the 401 between Cambridge and Guelph which suggests that an express-collector system could be constructed between the GTA West corridor and Highway 6-North. I think this is the wrong approach too. GTA west should tie into Guelph and ideally the new Highway 7 that is planned between K/W and Guelph. IF, and I say IF, the MTO/Ontario Government was smart, GTA west will not have a lot of interchanges. This will facilitate through movements well, and would not encourage sprawl through Wellington County.
> 
> Finally, somebody had better start thinking about another east-west corridor (or two) in York Region. All east-west transportation movements across Southern Ontario must pass through the narrow tract between Lake Ontario and Lake Simcoe. Without some sound planning and foresight, this entire corridor could be gobbled up with residential subdivisions in the not to distant future.


I could never see the whole area between Lake Simcoe and Lake Ontario being completely urbanized. Huge tracts of land in that area are already off limits to development. Oak Ridges Moraine protection, the Greenbelt. The area we have to be concerned with is the western shore of Lake Simcoe. That area is outside of the Greenbelt, and can be developed. The province has already approved development of employment lands along the 400 in Innisfil. 

If the province was smart they would construct more highways and transit to connect Halton with the surrounding areas, Kitchener, Guelph, Hamilton, Toronto. Currently the population is around 450 000 and in the next 25 years is expected to close to double in population. Milton currently has a population of 75 000, and only 10 years ago had 30 000, is expected to by the time it is full build out will have a population of 300 000. Growth is for the most part being concentrated in the western part of the GTA and the northern part. Very little growth is occurring in the east. 

Even though the province has all these grandiose plans, I do not see much of it actually being built unless we start to get some more money from the feds, and by that I mean they start taking less from us.


----------



## Haljackey

_post deleted. See below post._


----------



## sonysnob

Bartolo said:


> I could never see the whole area between Lake Simcoe and Lake Ontario being completely urbanized. Huge tracts of land in that area are already off limits to development. Oak Ridges Moraine protection, the Greenbelt. The area we have to be concerned with is the western shore of Lake Simcoe. That area is outside of the Greenbelt, and can be developed. The province has already approved development of employment lands along the 400 in Innisfil.
> 
> If the province was smart they would construct more highways and transit to connect Halton with the surrounding areas, Kitchener, Guelph, Hamilton, Toronto. Currently the population is around 450 000 and in the next 25 years is expected to close to double in population. Milton currently has a population of 75 000, and only 10 years ago had 30 000, is expected to by the time it is full build out will have a population of 300 000. Growth is for the most part being concentrated in the western part of the GTA and the northern part. Very little growth is occurring in the east.
> 
> Even though the province has all these grandiose plans, I do not see much of it actually being built unless we start to get some more money from the feds, and by that I mean they start taking less from us.


The greenbelt covers much of the uninhabited portions of the GTA, but doesn't address anything in the Yonge Street corridor. You are right, if the Bradford By-pass were to be built, it would do a lot for east-west movements, further it would provide redundancy between the 400 and 404 which would be great. However, the Bradford By-pass is a long way north of the 407.

It would be nice to see SOMETHING built. It seems like not a lot is getting done in terms of new highways in the southern part of the province.


----------



## Haljackey

Went to Toronto for a day trip on Saturday from London. It was a crappy day but I got some pictures. I thought I may as well share them here with you.

Hilly section









Construction between Woodstock and Kitchener, widening the highway from 4 to 6 lanes:









Pedestrian overpass in Kitchener. Further downhill is the bridge over the Grand River which is visible in this photo.









Here's two shots of some construction along Highway 401 in Mississauga. When complete, the road will be widened from 6 to 12 lanes, and have a collector/express system west of Highway 403 and 410. The interchange with Hurontario Street will also be reconstructed as part of the project.



















On Highway 427 now heading to the Gardiner Expressway.









Looking at the CN Tower as we exit the Gardiner onto Spadina Avenue.


----------



## sonysnob

^ You know, I think that one of the best things that the MTO has done in recent years is paint orange lane markings through construction zones. That really helps reduce the ambiguity that sometimes happens between the scrapped off permanent lane markings and temporary markings.

I read an article by Jim Kenzie wrote an article championing the orange lines a few years ago in the star. If my foggy memory serves me, he said that Ontario's orange lane markings were a first in North America, but have been used in European jurisdictions in the past.


----------



## Haljackey

sonysnob said:


> ^ You know, I think that one of the best things that the MTO has done in recent years is paint orange lane markings through construction zones. That really helps reduce the ambiguity that sometimes happens between the scrapped off permanent lane markings and temporary markings.
> 
> I read an article by Jim Kenzie wrote an article championing the orange lines a few years ago in the star. If my foggy memory serves me, he said that Ontario's orange lane markings were a first in North America, but have been used in European jurisdictions in the past.


If I recall correctly, Spain uses yellow lines in construction zones, but France and most of the rest of continental Europe uses orange.

I think it makes drivers more aware they're in a construction zone, and will actually slow down and be more cautious in them.

When we were going through the construction between Woodstock and Kitchener, the speed limit was 80, but everyone was doing at least 110. :hammer: There are no orange lines there.


----------



## CptSchmidt

I, for one, think that this is a great idea. Roundabouts keep things moving in cities while intersections clog things up. With Halifax's peak hours congestion on Robie and Quinpool, I think this is a great idea.

http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/local/article/524323--despite-ok-roundabouts-tentative


----------



## sonysnob

CptSchmidt said:


> Nice shots, Chris. You left out Halifax .
> 
> I took the liberty to make one myself.
> 
> Yellow = divided highway (the 107 is the only non-divided highway on this map)
> Pink = trunk road (denoted by shield and single-digit number) or NS Route.


This is an old thread -- but it occurs to me that Halifax has quite a substantial freeway network for a city of its size. If I am not mistaken, Halifax is about the same size as London Ontario (sorry, Ontario is my frame of reference), and London doesn't have have the roads that Halifax does.

I went to Halifax for a couple of days back in 2006. It was really foggy the entire time I was there, otherwise I would have been photographing away as per usual. Shame.


----------



## Bartolo

sonysnob said:


> This is an old thread -- but it occurs to me that Halifax has quite a substantial freeway network for a city of its size. If I am not mistaken, Halifax is about the same size as London Ontario (sorry, Ontario is my frame of reference), and London doesn't have have the roads that Halifax does.
> 
> I went to Halifax for a couple of days back in 2006. It was really foggy the entire time I was there, otherwise I would have been photographing away as per usual. Shame.


It does have a rather large network for its size. I think a large reason is because it is very spread out and also because of where it is located, around a bay.


----------



## sonysnob

^ It's network could also be more on the minds of governments and policy makers seeing as Halifax is by far Nova Scotia's largest centre.

On another note, Ontario has been experimenting with clearview font of late, and I put together a little bit of a comparison here. I am putting up both the highway gothic and clearview versions of each sign.

Diagram:

















Advanced:

















Exit:

















Thoughts?


----------



## Gil

sonysnob said:


> Exit:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thoughts?


I never did like the crown on the westbound 403 (Hamilton/Brantford) which is used on some of the newer signs. Strangely they switched it back when they put up the Clearview signs. I don't know, they're kinda boxy and just look "wrong" compared to the more rounded (more like a slice of bread :lol older crowns.

As for Clearview vs. Highway Gothic, personally I don't really notice a difference in legibility. I notice the difference in fonts, but they both read clearly.


----------



## Haljackey

sonysnob said:


> Thoughts?


As long as I can read the sign and figure out what the diagrams mean, then I don't really care one way or another.


----------



## sonysnob

Gil said:


> I never did like the crown on the westbound 403 (Hamilton/Brantford) which is used on some of the newer signs. Strangely they switched it back when they put up the Clearview signs. I don't know, they're kinda boxy and just look "wrong" compared to the more rounded (more like a slice of bread :lol older crowns.
> 
> As for Clearview vs. Highway Gothic, personally I don't really notice a difference in legibility. I notice the difference in fonts, but they both read clearly.


All of the wrong crowns that I have noticed seem to have gone up on or around the 407. I have wondered if an independent contractor was used to manufacture the signs, and just didn't get the shape right.


----------



## CptSchmidt

sonysnob said:


> This is an old thread -- but it occurs to me that Halifax has quite a substantial freeway network for a city of its size. If I am not mistaken, Halifax is about the same size as London Ontario (sorry, Ontario is my frame of reference), and London doesn't have have the roads that Halifax does.


I've never been to London so I can't really say. Population-wise it's similar, but as far as its spread and layout, I don't know.



sonysnob said:


> I went to Halifax for a couple of days back in 2006. It was really foggy the entire time I was there, otherwise I would have been photographing away as per usual. Shame.


Strange. Rarely is it ever so foggy in the city that it ruins everything. That's really too bad. The fog usually lingers around in Eastern Passage, along the Eastern Shore and in spots along Highway 102. 



Bartolo said:


> It does have a rather large network for its size. I think a large reason is because it is very spread out and also because of where it is located, around a bay.


The HRM is quite spread out, but our commute times are comparable to every other major city in Canada. The road network is very well planned out and is still being developed. The only HRM 100-series highway that isn't a separated 4x4 is the 107, unfortunately, and it's one of the most travelled. Everyone who commutes to Halifax or Dartmouth who lives on the Eastern Shore uses it, so twinning it would be very beneficial. 

The 107 is being extended to connect with the 101, but I think it would be much better served to continue from Musquodoboit to Antigonish. Eastern NS really could use a direct high-speed route, opening it up for business and tourism.


----------



## Haljackey

This picture is going for a featured picture:









Full size here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Hghway_401_Collectors_at_Weston_Road.jpg

Featured picture candidate page here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/Highway_401_Collector_Lanes


----------



## sonysnob

^ Hal, why that image? To me, there are way better photos already on wikipedia, this for example, to me, is a much cooler image:










^ Unless you live at the specific Yonge Street apartment, or know the person who does, you can't duplicate this.

The Weston Road image, while quite sharp could very easily be bested -- all it would take is someone with a decent SLR and a bright sunny day.

I don't mean to be difficult, just my two cents.


----------



## Gil

sonysnob said:


> All of the wrong crowns that I have noticed seem to have gone up on or around the 407. I have wondered if an independent contractor was used to manufacture the signs, and just didn't get the shape right.


The "wrong" crowns can also be seen on the eastbound Gardiner advanced signage for Hwy. 2 at Lake Shore Blvd. even though that segment of Hwy. 2 was downloaded by the Mike Harris government in the mid-90's, so it shouldn't even have a crown. The "wrong" crown also makes an appearance at the Lake Shore exit in the westbound lanes.


----------



## Haljackey

sonysnob said:


> ^ Hal, why that image? To me, there are way better photos already on wikipedia, this for example, to me, is a much cooler image:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ Unless you live at the specific Yonge Street apartment, or know the person who does, you can't duplicate this.
> 
> The Weston Road image, while quite sharp could very easily be bested -- all it would take is someone with a decent SLR and a bright sunny day.
> 
> I don't mean to be difficult, just my two cents.


No, you're not being difficult at all! Both the nominated and night pic are great contenders.

I like the one in the collectors because it puts you right in the driver's seat, allowing for the sheer size of the highway to grasp the average viewer's mind.

I'm sure that night pic could definitely be a contender in the future... it probably won't make it right now because there have been a lot of "night themed" pics displayed on the featured pictures recently.

That pic is also originally from Flickr, and I'm not sure if they can be featured...


----------



## Haljackey

^^
Ok that picture is now out of the running. The night shot has replaced it.


----------



## sonysnob

Gil said:


> The "wrong" crowns can also be seen on the eastbound Gardiner advanced signage for Hwy. 2 at Lake Shore Blvd. even though that segment of Hwy. 2 was downloaded by the Mike Harris government in the mid-90's, so it shouldn't even have a crown. The "wrong" crown also makes an appearance at the Lake Shore exit in the westbound lanes.


What's even more wierd is that those signs were erected after the QEW was transferred to Toronto. I wonder if either the sign manufacturer didn't understand the change, or the city was just intent on keeping Highway 2 signed.

Both Kingston Road and the Danforth were littered with Highway 2 and Highway 5 signs respectively until up to a couple of years ago.

Cheers.


----------



## CptSchmidt

Here is all of NS 118 inbound into Dartmouth. It begins heading north on the 102 from Fall River.


----------



## CptSchmidt

Sorry about the double post, but I really wanted to share this...

I was 'driving' around the Dempster Highway in Yukon when I found this...

http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=6...=BE3zuJLIlRtox2MoYq4slw&cbp=12,341.68,,0,6.49

Google Car meets Google Car in the middle of absolutely nowhere. :lol:


----------



## Fargo Wolf

I saw that too. That was when they got to Inuvik and the end of the road. The first car has just turned around on a dead end "street". Wonder if they were looking for the start of the ice road to Tuktoyuktuk (Tuk) for short.


----------



## Haljackey

Here's a pretty informative video of Highway 401 in West Toronto that was just made.






Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltcme5qIL9s


----------



## sonysnob

Haljackey said:


> Here's a pretty informative video of Highway 401 in West Toronto that was just made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltcme5qIL9s


Collectors to Mississauga Road by 2012?? I wish. Collectors to Mississauga Road by 2020 is far more likely.

The current contract only extends the lanes to just east of the McLaughlin Road overpass.


----------



## Haljackey

Thought so. I think it's going just west of Hurontario Street by 2011 and finish at LcLaughin Road in 2012. I agree that 2020 is a good estimate to extend the collector / express system to Mississauga Road.

This EA also shows that the two collector / Express systems along the 401 may be linked. I'm going to assume the 2020's for this one.
-Link: http://www.mmm.ca/projects/Prodetail.aspx?ptitle=Hwy%20401%20EA


----------



## Smelser

Additional Images and Renderings








Premier Gordon Campbell's Announcement
Source: Glenn Baglo from the Vancouver Sun









Premier Gordon Campbell
Source: Glenn Baglo from the Vancouver Sun









Existing Port Mann
Source: Glenn Baglo from the Vancouver Sun



Well, British Columbia's powerful Premier certainly looks proud and authoritarian in these pictures. But according to Bill Tieleman, he's now an ex-Premier. 


http://billtieleman.blogspot.com/2010/05/gordon-campbell-has-become-political-ex.html


----------



## sonysnob

Haljackey said:


> Thought so. I think it's going just west of Hurontario Street by 2011 and finish at LcLaughin Road in 2012. I agree that 2020 is a good estimate to extend the collector / express system to Mississauga Road.
> 
> This EA also shows that the two collector / Express systems along the 401 may be linked. I'm going to assume the 2020's for this one.
> -Link: http://www.mmm.ca/projects/Prodetail.aspx?ptitle=Hwy%20401%20EA


I have a feeling, though I could be wrong, that that study occurred several years in the past, and actually dealt with adding the extra lane between Kipling and the 427 that opened back in '01. The text is written in a way that suggests that the study has already been completed.


----------



## sonysnob

I think ChrisZwolle touched on this before, but it is a shame we don't see more stuff from the West Coast. Calgary for instance is building like crazy, yet on this forum at least, we see almost no photos from highways out west. If I lived out there, I'd be all over the roads there.

Just a thought.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

sonysnob said:


> I think ChrisZwolle touched on this before, but it is a shame we don't see more stuff from the West Coast. Calgary for instance is building like crazy, yet on this forum at least, we see almost no photos from highways out west. If I lived out there, I'd be all over the roads there.
> 
> Just a thought.


My earlier post (See below) is the farthest west I've seen. If the weather clears off, I want to go get some more pics.



Fargo Wolf said:


> Went for a drive today and got some pics of the Trans Canada Highway at the east end of Kamloops. The highway is not motorway here, though there are some grade separated intersections.
> 
> The pic is on the dark side, because of the clouds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Near the city limit, which is 3 KM down the highway at the HWY 1/97 junction.


----------



## CptSchmidt

Is it just me or does it seem like this thread is more like the 'Ontario 401' thread? :nuts:


----------



## Gil

CptSchmidt said:


> Is it just me or does it seem like this thread is more like the 'Ontario 401' thread? :nuts:


No that one I believe already exists: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=496221 It kinda died out in 2008 and has sunk down in the thread listings. I'm surprised at how little coverage of the Québec Autoroute system here. We get sporadic hits from BC and the Prairies and the Maritimes on top of the steady stream of Ontario topics.


----------



## Haljackey

CptSchmidt said:


> Is it just me or does it seem like this thread is more like the 'Ontario 401' thread? :nuts:





Gil said:


> No that one I believe already exists: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=496221 It kinda died out in 2008 and has sunk down in the thread listings. I'm surprised at how little coverage of the Québec Autoroute system here. We get sporadic hits from BC and the Prairies and the Maritimes on top of the steady stream of Ontario topics.



Don't forget about this one:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=215499&highlight=ontario+freeway

I actually think all Canadian highway threads should be merged into this one. 

That would avoid clutter, make it easy to find everything in one place, and keep threads from dying.


----------



## sonysnob

I am not sure if this is really relevant given the broadness of this forum, but I wish to mention it anyways.

The old Trenton Railway truss bridge on Highway 2 will be dismantled starting next week (May 31/10). The truss bridge is being replaced by a modern concrete beam bridge on a new alignment(!). While just a county highway now, the demolition of the truss bridge is significant given that it was built to serve intercity traffic at a time when Highway 2 was still the trunk route between Toronto and Montreal

Some pics of the old structure (from thekingshighway.ca):


----------



## Gil

Haljackey said:


> Don't forget about this one:
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=215499&highlight=ontario+freeway
> 
> I actually think all Canadian highway threads should be merged into this one.
> 
> That would avoid clutter, make it easy to find everything in one place, and keep threads from dying.


I don't know about consolidating all of the various subnational Canada highway threads. It seems that most of the discussion is on Ontario highways. Either it's due to the people who view and contribute to the thread or simply because there is more interest in Ontario highways. Perhaps combining the Ontario Highways and Ontario Freeways together might be better?


----------



## Haljackey

Gil said:


> I don't know about consolidating all of the various subnational Canada highway threads. It seems that most of the discussion is on Ontario highways. Either it's due to the people who view and contribute to the thread or simply because there is more interest in Ontario highways. Perhaps combining the Ontario Highways and Ontario Freeways together might be better?


Whatever works to be honest. I don't think it's fair for Canada to have so many threads here while much more populated countries only have one or two threads. Take the US (interstate and non interstate threads) or China (one thread) for example.

I think it makes the most sense to combine all threads into one. If that put's the emphasis on Ontario, then so be it. That just highlights the need that more content from the rest of Canada is needed.


----------



## Penhorn

CptSchmidt said:


> I, for one, think that this is a great idea. Roundabouts keep things moving in cities while intersections clog things up. With Halifax's peak hours congestion on Robie and Quinpool, I think this is a great idea.
> 
> http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/local/article/524323--despite-ok-roundabouts-tentative


The Willow Tree proposal is terrible. Look at where the crossings have been relocated -- I have crossed this intersection daily for the past 4 years and somehow the prospect of having to walk an extra 80 metres to crosswalks at which the cars are not even forced to come to a stop isn't too appealing to me. It's a step in the wrong direction. Roundabouts of this magnitude are for suburban areas, not the city centre.

The other proposals look more reasonable if not a bit unnecessary -- I can think of a multitude of ways in which the money would be better spent round here (such as the long-delayed Quinpool Road streetscape project)..

Diagrams of all planned roundabouts


----------



## Penn's Woods

Haljackey said:


> Whatever works to be honest. I don't think it's fair for Canada to have so many threads here while much more populated countries only have one or two threads. Take the US (interstate and non interstate threads) or China (one thread) for example.
> 
> I think it makes the most sense to combine all threads into one. If that put's the emphasis on Ontario, then so be it. That just highlights the need that more content from the rest of Canada is needed.


If a non-Canadian can put in his two cents on the matter, I didn't know there _was_ more than one Canadian thread. Which is probably an argument for merging them.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I can merge them into one Canadian thread if you guys think it's a good idea. I gotta say the older threads are barely active. (that's why regionalisation of threads is usually a futile attempt).


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> I can merge them into one Canadian thread if you guys think it's a good idea. I gotta say the older threads are barely active. (that's why regionalisation of threads is usually a futile attempt).


Or alternatively make sure they're all in the thread-finder (For that matter, I haven't looked at it lately, but are the US Interstate, "US Non-Interstate" _and_ California threads all there?)


----------



## Haljackey

ChrisZwolle said:


> I can merge them into one Canadian thread if you guys think it's a good idea. I gotta say the older threads are barely active. (that's why regionalisation of threads is usually a futile attempt).


I support this.

Penn's Woods' comment further strengthens the reason to do so. It's simply easier to find all the Canadian content in one thread.


----------



## CptSchmidt

Penhorn said:


> The Willow Tree proposal is terrible. Look at where the crossings have been relocated -- I have crossed this intersection daily for the past 4 years and somehow the prospect of having to walk an extra 80 metres to crosswalks at which the cars are not even forced to come to a stop isn't too appealing to me. It's a step in the wrong direction. Roundabouts of this magnitude are for suburban areas, not the city centre.
> 
> The other proposals look more reasonable if not a bit unnecessary -- I can think of a multitude of ways in which the money would be better spent round here (such as the long-delayed Quinpool Road streetscape project)..
> 
> Diagrams of all planned roundabouts


I don't agree. If by the Willlow Tree proposal you mean the Quinpool/Robie intersection, then I have to say that that is probably the most important one they do. If they do any of them, that would be the best. I don't know what time of day you cross that street, but I'm sure that you've seen just how backed up it can be during peak hours. I would argue that it's because of that intersection that Quinpool and Robie get as backed up as they do. 

It can take more than ten minutes to get from University to Quinpool in evening rush hour and just as long to get from North or Cunard to Quinpool in the morning. It's ridiculous. A traffic circle would alleviate much of this problem as the traffic is always moving. A big factor in the waiting time and backed up traffic, too, are cars waiting to turn left onto Bell and Quinpool. A total of five lanes of through-traffic are held up for these two turning lanes. And, because of the amount of traffic backed up and waiting to turn, the turning signal is longer than most HRM turning lights. 

And, don't forget, that the lack of a left turn lane from Quinpool to Robie adds a lot of unnecessary traffic to side streets - people looking for a way to get onto Robie. The only way to do that right now is to take Oxford to either Jubilee or Cunard, through residential areas. You can't turn left onto Robie from North, either. It's inefficient and causes clutter. 

A traffic circle would solve this.

I also think that making use of traffic circles would be a uniquely Halifax thing in Canada, which would be fun. It could even serve as a model for developing cities in the country once the positive effects are analysed and studied.

The pedestrian problem could easily be solved by under or overpasses. An overpass would be less expensive while an underpass would be more aesthetic, but both are very doable. 

I think the other proposals are all great ideas and should be implemented. 

My only concern is the loss of the trees on the edge of the Commons at the Quinpool/Robie intersection. In order for Cogswell Street to be properly added to the circle, a corner of the Commons will have to be carved off as far back as the baseball diamond. I don't have a big problem with shaving off a piece of the Commons (if the Cunard/Agricola circle is implemented, the Commons will have _more_ grounds added across from the Armoury) to make this work, but I'd like to see those big old trees replanted or just moved back to where the new Commons' edge will be. 

As for the Quinpool Streetscape Project, the traffic circle could play a big part in its aesthetics and functionality. What good is a beautiful street if it's clogged with idling cars half the day?


----------



## Fargo Wolf

I know that there is a thread dedicated specifically to the Province of Ontario, but I feel it should be merged with the Canadian thread. Until a province separates from Canada, to become it' s own nation, I don't think we need a thread for Ontario.


----------



## Haljackey

Fargo Wolf said:


> I know that there is a thread dedicated specifically to the Province of Ontario, but I feel it should be merged with the Canadian thread. Until a province separates from Canada, to become it' s own nation, I don't think we need a thread for Ontario.


Exactly what I think. Most countries here have only one thread, so I think it's best for all Canadian ones to be merged into this one.

ChrisZwolle, you said you could merge them. If this was done, would the older threads simply be stacked ontop of this one or would it be reordered by post date? (Either way is ok I guess.)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The posts will be ordered according to post date. So there may be some messing up in the older pages. However, I doubt if many people read those. Maybe find them via Google.


----------



## Haljackey

ChrisZwolle said:


> The posts will be ordered according to post date. So there may be some messing up in the older pages. However, I doubt if many people read those. Maybe find them via Google.


Yeah either google searches or people scrolling the pages. 

I think having them ordered by post count is much better than just clumping them together somewhere. Does anyone object this or do we have the green light to go ahead with it?


----------



## Haljackey

Here's something new:










Ontario now uses florescent orange lane markings in construction zones along the 400-series and other major highways. I believe the first major use of this was last year. It has received a ton of positive feedback from motorists and construction workers alike, because it makes drivers more aware that they are in a construction zone, making it safer.

Ontario is the first place in North America to use this. It is used all over Europe, however some countries use yellow markings instead.



_Also, are we all in agreement with merging all Canadian highway threads into this one? _


----------



## CptSchmidt

Haljackey said:


> Ontario now uses florescent orange lane markings in construction zones along the 400-series and other major highways. I believe the first major use of this was last year. It has received a ton of positive feedback from motorists and construction workers alike, because it makes drivers more aware that they are in a construction zone, making it safer.
> 
> Ontario is the first place in North America to use this. It is used all over Europe, however some countries use yellow markings instead.


I think it's a huge waste of time and money. Pylons do the same thing, as do temporary reflective lane markers. With the Ontario government going about how it doesn't have enough money to do anything anymore and all this recession bogus, I think the money spent on painting the road, removing the paint and repainting it properly is wasteful and could be better spent elsewhere. 



> _Also, are we all in agreement with merging all Canadian highway threads into this one? _


I'm not. The reason I asked if this thread seemed like the 401 thread was because it seems like that's all this thread is about. There are more roads in Canada than the 401 and 400 series highways.


----------



## sonysnob

CptSchmidt said:


> I'm not. The reason I asked if this thread seemed like the 401 thread was because it seems like that's all this thread is about. There are more roads in Canada than the 401 and 400 series highways.


Not trying to sound like a d!ck, but the 401 gets as much attention as it does because one in three Canadian's lives near it. I have been on road forums for almost six years between Ontroads and Canroads, and they have always had a bit of Ontario-centricity, simply because that's where the most members lived.

That said, I'd love to see more discussion from other areas, I just can't partake in it as much, as I am from Ontario and the bulk of my travel is within Ontario. I wouldn't change the status quo either.


----------



## Haljackey

CptSchmidt said:


> I think it's a huge waste of time and money. Pylons do the same thing, as do temporary reflective lane markers. With the Ontario government going about how it doesn't have enough money to do anything anymore and all this recession bogus, I think the money spent on painting the road, removing the paint and repainting it properly is wasteful and could be better spent elsewhere.


I don't know much about Ontario's budget situation, but I guess safety comes first. I'm not sure how hard it is to remove the paint but judging that they're used in construction zones, they could just simply be paved over a lot of the time.



> I'm not. The reason I asked if this thread seemed like the 401 thread was because it seems like that's all this thread is about. There are more roads in Canada than the 401 and 400 series highways.


Well that means an emphasis needs to be put on highways elsewhere in the country. sonysnob also makes a good point that the 400-series get a lot of attention due to their proximity to populated areas and the 401 because it is one of the widest and busiest roads in the world.

Just my opinion, but I hope you see my point.


----------



## CptSchmidt

Haljackey said:


> I don't know much about Ontario's budget situation, but I guess safety comes first. I'm not sure how hard it is to remove the paint but judging that they're used in construction zones, they could just simply be paved over a lot of the time.


Yeah, they probably could just pave over some of them. But in the picture it looks more like the lines were painted in area a little before the construction. I see what you're saying, I just think it's extra work that takes up an unnecessary amount of time and money. I don't know how much safer it is, I haven't seen any numbers or statistics between temporary markers or construction paint, but I'm thinking it's probably about the same. People are generally more cautious in construction zones, anyway, and people also tend to drive much slower. I'm not sure about the rest of Canada, but in NS speed fines are doubled in construction zones and it's heavily enforced. 



Haljackey said:


> Well that means an emphasis needs to be put on highways elsewhere in the country. sonysnob also makes a good point that the 400-series get a lot of attention due to their proximity to populated areas and the 401 because it is one of the widest and busiest roads in the world.
> 
> Just my opinion, but I hope you see my point.


Probably right - I see exactly what you're saying. If more people want everything merged, it doesn't make much difference to me. My fear is that the rest of Canada will be drowned out.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Just doing my bit for Western Canada here. These were taken in Kamloops, while I was out and about. Just three pics of HWY 1/5/97 The 6 lane starts/ends just west of the truck scales and ends about 3.5 KM later at the exit for Columbia St. These were taken from the Pacific Way.

Looking east:









Looking west:









Directional sign to the highway. Good shot of the font used:


----------



## go_leafs_go02

ssiguy2 said:


> That "roller coaster" shot of the 401 east of London was great. I wish BC had ANY 6 lane freeways but alas only 4 lanes with short HOVs. The amount of traffic on the 401 has soared. Much busier than when I was a kid in 1980. Even more so with the 402. I remember when the part from Sarnia to Strathroy opened and it was near vacant. People use to joje that Strathroy now has 2 bowling alleys.
> Any videos of the 402?


I'm a Londoner who now lives in BC (Surrey area) and I dearly miss the high-standard highways I grew up driving. BC is a joke for transportation investments. It makes me sad to see how London can have 6 lanes, but yet it's impossible to have 6 lanes anywhere in Vancouver.

The 402 still isnt' that busy, but probably has grown a fair bit since the 1980s. 

I love how that picture in Kamloops shows better highway facilities than in Vancouver. It's like Toronto having 4-lanes on the 401 still. hno:


----------



## Haljackey

Nice shots from Kamloops, Fargo Wolf!



ChrisZwolle said:


> HOV is only useful from 4 - 5 lanes per direction, otherwise the HOV potential is just too low to justify a dedicated lane. It's just politics otherwise.


Our ministry of transportation prides itself by saying "an HOV lane has the capacity of 4 general purpose lanes". While this may be true from a average people per day basis, the actual amount of cars that can travel on it remain the same as any other lane. 
-This is why HOV lanes are being built on 6 lane roads. The 403 between the 407 and 401/410 is a good example.



go_leafs_go02 said:


> I'm a Londoner who now lives in BC (Surrey area) and I dearly miss the high-standard highways I grew up driving. BC is a joke for transportation investments. It makes me sad to see how London can have 6 lanes, but yet it's impossible to have 6 lanes anywhere in Vancouver.
> 
> The 402 still isnt' that busy, but probably has grown a fair bit since the 1980s.
> 
> I love how that picture in Kamloops shows better highway facilities than in Vancouver. It's like Toronto having 4-lanes on the 401 still. hno:


BC needs to do more with road infrastructure, but it's transit investments are pretty good compared to other Canadian cities. However this may be just around Vancouver and partially due to the Olympics.
-If Toronto ever got the Olympics, hopefully it would get some improvements to it's transit system... this city desperately needs it.

London has 6 lanes because the 401 has a lot more traffic between highways 402 and 403. Also note that London is the largest city in North America that doesn't have a freeway for local traffic, so the 401 bypass is used as a commuter road more and more. 
-Plans call for 8 lanes west of Highway 402 and a right of way for a maximum 10 lane cross-section to the VMP.

The 402 is only semi-busy between Highway 4 and 401 in London and west of Airport Road in Sarina. Traffic on the 403 is also pretty light between Highways 401 and 24.


----------



## sonysnob

Haljackey said:


> Our ministry of transportation prides itself by saying "an HOV lane has the capacity of 4 general purpose lanes". While this may be true from a average people per day basis, the actual amount of cars that can travel on it remain the same as any other lane.
> -This is why HOV lanes are being built on 6 lane roads. The 403 between the 407 and 401/410 is a good example.


The issue that I have with HOV lane construction is that it seems to be the only tool to be utilized by the provincial government. For the amount of money being spent on the QEW, it is a waste that a general purpose lane _and_ an HOV lane are not being constructed ... or at least that an extra general purpose lane wasn't being precluded.

Also, consider that with the the extra wide shoulders, and the striped buffer zones, each HOV lane takes up almost as much space as two lanes anyways.




Haljackey said:


> London has 6 lanes because the 401 has a lot more traffic between highways 402 and 403. Also note that London is the largest city in North America that doesn't have a freeway for local traffic, so the 401 bypass is used as a commuter road more and more.
> -Plans call for 8 lanes west of Highway 402 and a right of way for a maximum 10 lane cross-section to the VMP.


Winnipeg is a city in North America, way larger than London, and it doesn't have a freeway network either.


----------



## AUchamps

sonysnob said:


> The issue that I have with HOV lane construction is that it seems to be the only tool to be utilized by the provincial government. For the amount of money being spent on the QEW, it is a waste that a general purpose lane _and_ an HOV lane are not being constructed ... or at least that an extra general purpose lane wasn't being precluded.
> 
> Also, consider that with the the extra wide shoulders, and the striped buffer zones, each HOV lane takes up almost as much space as two lanes anyways.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Winnipeg is a city in North America, way larger than London, and it doesn't have a freeway network either.


Highway 100 is limited access in enough parts to be considered a Freeway. It's like New Circle Road in Lexington, Kentucky. Not Limited Access the whole way, but enough to be considered Freeway.


----------



## sonysnob

AUchamps said:


> Highway 100 is limited access in enough parts to be considered a Freeway. It's like New Circle Road in Lexington, Kentucky. Not Limited Access the whole way, but enough to be considered Freeway.


Ever driven Highway 100? There are traffic signals all over it? And besides, if Highway 100 counts for local traffic, surely the 401/402 do for London.


----------



## TheCat

sonysnob said:


> The issue that I have with HOV lane construction is that it seems to be the only tool to be utilized by the provincial government. For the amount of money being spent on the QEW, it is a waste that a general purpose lane _and_ an HOV lane are not being constructed ... or at least that an extra general purpose lane wasn't being precluded.
> 
> Also, consider that with the the extra wide shoulders, and the striped buffer zones, each HOV lane takes up almost as much space as two lanes anyways.


+1

I've driven on the various sections of highway that have HOV lanes in the Toronto area, and 99% of the time it was a completely empty lane with the occasional car passing by very rarely. Maybe I observed that at some unusual times, but I never saw anything I would even describe as "light traffic".


----------



## Haljackey

I would assume that Highway 100 and the freeways in Winnipeg are used by traffic in the region. Very little traffic will go right past the city because it's so isolated on the TCH. Most people I would assume would want to do something in winnipeg (eg. eat, sleep, see sights, etc.)

With the London network, very little local traffic uses the 401/402. Its mostly long distance traffic that doesn't make use of London at all. It's if the city wasn't even there... much different story for Winnipeg.

Just my thoughts.


----------



## go_leafs_go02

Haljackey said:


> I would assume that Highway 100 and the freeways in Winnipeg are used by traffic in the region. Very little traffic will go right past the city because it's so isolated on the TCH. Most people I would assume would want to do something in winnipeg (eg. eat, sleep, see sights, etc.)
> 
> With the London network, very little local traffic uses the 401/402. Its mostly long distance traffic that doesn't make use of London at all. It's if the city wasn't even there... much different story for Winnipeg.
> 
> Just my thoughts.


There is a huge drop off in traffic west of London, and I easily guarantee traffic volumes of both Highway 401 & 402 west of London are not really even close to the traffic volumes between London & Woodstock. 

Alot of that long distance traffic is en route for London. Check to see how busy Highbury & Wellington Road interchanges are for vehicles coming from/going to the east. I would argue it is substantially higher than the west.


----------



## Haljackey

Here's a new shot of Highway 404 in Toronto, the only route with HOV lanes which in my opinion needs HOV lanes.










The HOV system on the 404 would work so much better if it continued on the Don Valley Parkway, however.

And I also agree that you could probably fit 2 regular lanes where that HOV lane is quite easily.


----------



## sonysnob

Haljackey said:


> I would assume that Highway 100 and the freeways in Winnipeg are used by traffic in the region. Very little traffic will go right past the city because it's so isolated on the TCH. Most people I would assume would want to do something in winnipeg (eg. eat, sleep, see sights, etc.)
> 
> With the London network, very little local traffic uses the 401/402. Its mostly long distance traffic that doesn't make use of London at all. It's if the city wasn't even there... much different story for Winnipeg.
> 
> Just my thoughts.


This post is rubbish. Sorry to say, but I'd be embarrassed to have written this. There is no shame in being wrong, but you need to have the decency to admit it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Haljackey said:


> Our ministry of transportation prides itself by saying "an HOV lane has the capacity of 4 general purpose lanes". While this may be true from a average people per day basis, the actual amount of cars that can travel on it remain the same as any other lane.


This is, of course, based on the number of people in a vehicle, as you say, a HOV lane has the technical capacity (vehicles/hour) like any other lane (slightly lower because you can't pass). However, 4 times is exaggerated, even in people/car terms. The average car has 1.2 people in it. This would mean the average HOV car has 4.8 people in it. I don't buy that, unless a large proportion of HOV traffic are buses.


----------



## Bartolo

ChrisZwolle said:


> This is, of course, based on the number of people in a vehicle, as you say, a HOV lane has the technical capacity (vehicles/hour) like any other lane (slightly lower because you can't pass). However, 4 times is exaggerated, even in people/car terms. The average car has 1.2 people in it. This would mean the average HOV car has 4.8 people in it. I don't buy that, unless a large proportion of HOV traffic are buses.


On the 403 in Mississauga, Mississauga Transit buses travel on the shoulder.


----------



## Gil

Bartolo said:


> On the 403 in Mississauga, Mississauga Transit buses travel on the shoulder.


That's the case since they are only travelling between two adjacent exits. Granted the Mavis and Erin Mills exits are 5km apart, but given the volume of traffic on the 403 at rush hour, I don't think there'd be any savings in trying to get into the HOV lane. GO Transit which uses a longer segment of the 403 makes full use of the HOV lanes when conditions dictate. I would presume that the MT 109 Express route which bypasses the City Centre would use the HOV lanes instead of the BBS (Bus Bypass Shoulder) Lane travelling between Erin Mills and Eastgate.


----------



## CptSchmidt

Haljackey said:


> And I also agree that you could probably fit 2 regular lanes where that HOV lane is quite easily.


Maybe even three if they made the left shoulder a more reasonable size. 

I think HOV lanes are a waste of space, personally, and are therefore worse for the environment. Just like those 'hybrid parking only' spaces you see in parking lots some places.


----------



## sonysnob

I am working on a Highway 410 update for my website, and am uploading some historical maps as part of the page.

I am posting two maps, the first is a map of Highway 410 while it was still a Super-2 highway in Brampton:









The second is of the Highway 401 interchange in Mississauga. Note the different cartography style -- this is from the same atlas.









Both are from 1988.

Cheers.


----------



## Haljackey

Traveled to the Falls for Canada Day, took some pics on the way.

Looking at Highway 401 westbound from Highbury Avenue in London.









Heading onto Highway 401 eastbound from Highbury Avenue









The famous "hilly" segments of the 401 between London and Ingersoll









On Highway 403 now near the Grand River.









Looking at the Niagara bound Queen Elizabeth Way from the Red Hill Valley Parkway interchange in Hamilton.









Highway 420's expressway portion in Niagara Falls.
-This is a rare exception for the 400-Series highways. Nearly all segments are freeways.









Highway 420's terminus at Falls Avenue, near the Rainbow Bridge crossing to the USA.









Anyways hope you enjoyed the pics! It's always a fun time in Niagara Falls on Canada Day! :cheers:


----------



## sonysnob

Non highway related question here. What kind of show do they put on in the falls for Canada Day? I only wonder because although it is a pretty big tourist attraction, the falls themselves are situated on an international border.


----------



## Gil

Haljackey said:


> Highway 420's expressway portion in Niagara Falls.
> -This is a rare exception for the 400-Series highways. Nearly all segments are freeways.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Highway 420's terminus at Falls Avenue, near the Rainbow Bridge crossing to the USA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways hope you enjoyed the pics! It's always a fun time in Niagara Falls on Canada Day! :cheers:


The non-expressway portion of the 420 east of Stanley was downloaded to Niagara Region. It's signed as Regional Road 420 down to the border, effectively cutting the length of the highway in half.


----------



## Haljackey

sonysnob said:


> Non highway related question here. What kind of show do they put on in the falls for Canada Day? I only wonder because although it is a pretty big tourist attraction, the falls themselves are situated on an international border.


They put on live concerts near the falls, and a huge fireworks show over the falls! It's always a great way to celebrate Canada Day!

Actually fireworks over the falls occur a lot over the summer, but they're best from July 1-4 (for Canada Day and US Independence Day).



Here's a new road video of mine. It shows the Highbury extension, Highway 401 and 402 in London, Ontario. 






*Link for HD and info: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFXvbx8bnTE*

Hope you enjoy it!


----------



## sonysnob

Quebec Highway 138:


----------



## CptSchmidt

I was under the impression that Vancouver was trying its best to discourage the building of highways in an attempt to keep the city free from congestion, that it preferred public transit to highway infrastructure. I guess I was wrong...


----------



## Fargo Wolf

CptSchmidt said:


> I was under the impression that Vancouver was trying its best to discourage the building of highways in an attempt to keep the city free from congestion, that it preferred public transit to highway infrastructure. I guess I was wrong...


In downtown Vancouver, they are attempting to do just that. Some new bike routes along major streets have opened, the newest on either the Georgia, or Grandview (Can't remember which) Viaduct. There is also, supposedly, more emphasis on increasing transit. 100% B.S. there, knowing TransLink... 

Major route expansions/construction just outside of Vancouver, include widening the Hwy 1 corridor and replacing the Port Mann Bridge. Two new major Routes, known as the North and South Perimeter roads are either well into planning, or possibly even extremely early prep work.


----------



## CptSchmidt

NS Highway 103 (the twinned section) to Exit 5.


----------



## TheCat

New video of mine, this one is of Highway 400. It also includes very short sections of the Trans-Canada Highway.


----------



## Sphynx

CptSchmidt said:


> I was under the impression that Vancouver was trying its best to discourage the building of highways in an attempt to keep the city free from congestion, that it preferred public transit to highway infrastructure. I guess I was wrong...


You are probably thinking about the "City" of Vancouver where only 27% of the Metro Vancouver population resides. The other 73% resides outside the City of Vancouver. Sure, the City of Vancouver has no freeways (except the NE corner with Hwy 1) and will never build any highways. It's all transit all the time.

In Metro Vancouver, you have the massive Hwy 1 rebuild as well as the soon to be built SFPR freeway (albeit 2 intersections at its eastern end) connecting the 99, 91, and 1 fwys. Pre-load of the SFPR is substantially completed and the major construction contract has just been let.

Last year the 6-lane Golden Ears Bridge and expressway was completed and earlier this year the 8-lane Pit River Bridge/Mary Hill Bypass interchange along Hwy 7/the NFPR was also completed.

Of course, further rapid transit extensions are also planned into the suburbs.


----------



## Sphynx

Some pics of the Nanaimo Parkway (Hwy 19) on central Vancouver Island:




























Some pics of Hwy 19 on northern Vancouver Island:


----------



## Millstone

Haljackey said:


> Some new photos of Highway 401 I took on a trip from London to Windsor.
> 
> 6 lanes and a concrete surface. To my knowledge, this is the only part of Highway 401 that is concrete. I hate concrete as it is bumpy, but the drive was exceptionally smooth compared to the US Interstates.


Most of Hwy 401 is concrete. It's just mostly been overlaid with asphalt. This is why there are so many evenly spaced lateral bumps between London and Windsor.


----------



## TheCat

My newest video, this one is a little different. It is a drive on the Toronto "ring", consisting of Highways 401 and 427, the Gardiner Expressway, and the Don Valley Parkway. It's a complete lap (though, as mentioned in the video's description, nowadays Toronto extends well beyond this ring).


----------



## Haljackey

Nice job! I call that the "Toronto Ring Road".

It was a little hard to absorb all of that in 3:25. Perhaps slowing it down by 50% (so 6:50 long) would make it a little more enjoyable to view.


----------



## TheCat

Thanks, and I agree. I was just too lazy to change it after I was done with the editing. I had a backlog of 4 videos from the past 2 months and I didn't have a lot of time to spend on them, but now all of them are up on my channel.


----------



## Haljackey

Stumbled upon these amazing recreations of the Highway 401 / Allen Road interchange.

Made in Cityscape:



























Made in Simcity 4:
*(Click here for full size)*


----------



## J347V

^^ Neat models, I tried making a interchange in Sketchup but it got too complicated for me. 

For my first post on SSC, here's a couple pics showing the new Aberdeen Ave. overpass on Highway 403 and the old one. They built the new bridge deck near the old one and then when the were ready to replace the old one they closed the highway and then they switched the two bridge decks

New bridge deck in place:

(click to enlarge)

Old bridge deck sitting off the highway before it is dismantled:

(click to enlarge)

I found a short video with more info on the MTO website


----------



## Xusein

That SimCity interchange is pretty sweet, seems to take lots of land area though.


----------



## CptSchmidt

This is New Brunswick's Route 2 between the border of Nova Scotia and its junction with Route 15. There's not a lot on here for NB, I'm noticing...


----------



## Danielk2

J347V said:


> ^^ Neat models, I tried making a interchange in Sketchup but it got too complicated for me.


Practice makes perfect you know. Just use the eraser tool, and you'll be all fine


----------



## sonysnob

Highway 11 in Northern Ontario:









West of Thunder Bay, Highway 11 is pretty lightly traveled. The road is generally in good shape, and is dotted with lots of picturesque little lakes such as this. It is amazing how vast and pristine so much of Canada is.


----------



## Sphynx

The tolled Golden Ears Bridge/Expressway crossing the Fraser River, connecting the eastern Metro Vancouver suburbs of Langley and Surrey, which was opened last summer:


----------



## sonysnob

^ This may sound dumb, but I really wish that the Golden Ears Bridge had been given a highway number.


----------



## Haljackey

sonysnob said:


> ^ This may sound dumb, but I really wish that the Golden Ears Bridge had been given a highway number.


Even still, that's one great looking bridge. It has a design similar to that super-long bridge near Shanghai.

I don't want to get on the topic of road numbers (unless you want to discuss it), but it seems to be a thing of the past. Not too many new roads have been given numbers in Canada since the turn of the century/milleniua.


----------



## Haljackey

Yeah it's tough to beat the view, especially entering downtown from the east.

Here's a photo I took back in May near the Gardiner/Spadina interchange.


----------



## zivan56

IrishMan2010 said:


> Canadian highways are impressive.


Correction: some of Canada's highways are impressive.

Traffic is a nightmare in Vancouver, with the only closest highway having 2 lanes each way (3 in some places, but not continuous). This will be upgraded, but it will be tolled..so the only real highway in and out of Vancouver (and basically the Fraser Valley) will have a toll on it. I can understand if it was an alternative faster route, but instead people will have to keep taking this route if they want to get to work in the morning/home in the afternoon.

If you want to see more "impressive" roads in BC, check out highway 99 from Whistler to Lillooet. One lane in each direction with unacceptable road quality in most parts...even driving a car with the softest suspension on earth will result in a bone jarring ride. Oh yeah, and random gravel sections that come out of nowhere! Not to mention those fun temporary wooden bridges! hno:
Keep in mind this is not a logging road, but a full highway.

While the Coquihalla seems impressive, it is far from it. It is dangerous when it rains due to huge puddles that form in thousands of road depressions. This causes you to hydroplane dozens of times every few seconds.

To conclude, BC roads suck. Even the only major highway (highway 1) through most of BC is 1 lane in each direction in plenty of places.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

zivan56 said:


> Correction: some of Canada's highways are impressive.
> 
> Traffic is a nightmare in Vancouver, with the only closest highway having 2 lanes each way (3 in some places, but not continuous). This will be upgraded, but it will be tolled..so the only real highway in and out of Vancouver (and basically the Fraser Valley) will have a toll on it. I can understand if it was an alternative faster route, but instead people will have to keep taking this route if they want to get to work in the morning/home in the afternoon.
> 
> If you want to see more "impressive" roads in BC, check out highway 99 from Whistler to Lillooet. One lane in each direction with unacceptable road quality in most parts...even driving a car with the softest suspension on earth will result in a bone jarring ride. Oh yeah, and random gravel sections that come out of nowhere! Not to mention those fun temporary wooden bridges! hno:
> Keep in mind this is not a logging road, but a full highway.
> 
> While the Coquihalla seems impressive, it is far from it. It is dangerous when it rains due to huge puddles that form in thousands of road depressions. This causes you to hydroplane dozens of times every few seconds.
> 
> To conclude, BC roads suck. Even the only major highway (highway 1) through most of BC is 1 lane in each direction in plenty of places.


The new Port Mann will be tolled, but as I understand it, the rest will be toll free. The downside is, is that those who don't want to pay the toll, will just add to the chaos that is the Patello Bridge.

The Sea To Sky Hwy portion of BC Hwy 99, is now 2X2 for about half it's length. The rest of it is alternating passing/crawler lanes, along with improved/realigned road. to Whistler. From Whistler to Lillooet, a bridge or two has been replaced, but that's about it. Traffic is quite light on this portion, so upgrades will be years in coming. I like the one lane bridges.  Even though it's marked as a highway, it's primary purpose, is that of a resource road, just as Hwy 40 (Bighorn Highway) between Hinton and Grande Prairie is.

The "Coke" is going to get FAR worse, now that the tolls have been removed. Some ares were ALWAYS poorly engineered. The hairpin bend at the north end of the avalanche gallery that's cambered the wrong way for example. The fact that "Snowshed Hill" is 12%, NOT 8 as the sign indicates... hno:

BC does have decent highways, you just have to really look for those sections. Hwy 97 S. is getting a 4 lane stretch just south of Westwold, as is a section of Hwy 5 N. just south of the village of McLure. The Trans Canada is in the very early stage of being upgraded to 2X2 from the Kamloops City limits to the village of Pritchard.

It's not that nothing is being done, It's that the progress is like pouring cold syrup in -20C temperatures...


----------



## Haljackey

Took a DSLR for a spin yesterday. It was a rainy day but I did manage to get 6 good pictures of the 401 in London. Remember that Highbury Avenue and the Veterans Memorial Parkway are expressways. Thus, I can't get shots from those overpasses because there is no pedestrian access.

Highway 401 looking west towards the Highway 402 interchange from Wellington Road.









A rare photograph showing the Highway 401 / Highway 402 interchange. Taken from the Digman Drive overpass, which was under repairs at the time this photo was taken (hence the construction pylons and signs). The overpass doesn't have a sidewalk, so the only time I could take photos without the fear of being hit by cars was during this brief timeframe.









This photograph shows Highway 401 just west of the Highway 402 interchange, where the highway narrows from six to four lanes. T
-Also note the reverse colours of the asphalt. The newer asphalt switches from the inside to the outside while the older asphalt switches from the outside to the inside.









Zoomed in version of the last picture.









Highway 401 in west London. This section of the highway is planned to be widened to six lanes sometime in the future and will include a new interchange with Wonderland Road.









One more shot of Highway 401 west of the 402.








*
Full size versions of these pictures can be found on the Highway 401 page in the Wikimedia commons. Link:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Highway_401_%28Ontario%29*


----------



## ssiguy2

Thanks for the great pics.
How about 402 photos?


----------



## sonysnob

Bah, pedestrian access means nothing. 



















Cool pics. What kind of SLR were you using?


----------



## Haljackey

ssiguy2 said:


> Thanks for the great pics.
> How about 402 photos?


Ok, just for you:

Highway 402 in London between Wonderland Road and Highway 4.









The 402 is a pretty boring drive. Just a typical rural highway with a grass median.



sonysnob said:


> Bah, pedestrian access means nothing.
> 
> Cool pics. What kind of SLR were you using?


You're crazy! On your site you have pics from the Highbury and Veteran's Memorial Parkway. Not only do they not have sidewalks, pedestrians aren't even permitted to use em!

Then again you're a professional road photographer. I'm just an amateur.. mostly taking these pictures for Wikipedia and what not. Just a hobby I guess.

The camera I used was a Nikon D90. I borrowed it from my school. 
_-I wish I owned it, but I don't wanna pay $1500 plus another $350 for the lens. I guess borrowing it for free is acceptable._ :lol:


----------



## sonysnob

I am not a professional -- I am a hobbyist just like you, I just have been doing it for a long time. In fact my gear does not even come close to rivaling that of a Nikon D90. And, while you are correct that I have shot from the Vet, I have never shot from Highbury -- that's too dangerous.

Anyways, if I had a D90 out on loan, I would try to do some long exposure night photos. The ability to shoot in low light conditions are really what separate the good cameras from the adequate ones. London has a couple of really, really good vantages of Downtown that would work at night -- namely the Adelaide Street bridge over the Railway, or the Wharncliff Road bridge over the Thames. The great thing about shooting from a bridge, is the parapet wall can substitute as a tripod.

:cheers:


----------



## ssiguy2

O Haljackey you're such a sweetheart. 
Any others?


----------



## sonysnob

I don't know how to post an embedded video into this forum, but there is a really cool video of Highway 410 on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtNelNp3lt0


----------



## sonysnob

I have got some more 402 as well. I didn't reply earlier in case you were looking for stuff specifically from Haljacky.
































































Cheers.


----------



## Haljackey

sonysnob said:


> I am not a professional -- I am a hobbyist just like you, I just have been doing it for a long time. In fact my gear does not even come close to rivaling that of a Nikon D90. And, while you are correct that I have shot from the Vet, I have never shot from Highbury -- that's too dangerous.
> 
> Anyways, if I had a D90 out on loan, I would try to do some long exposure night photos. The ability to shoot in low light conditions are really what separate the good cameras from the adequate ones. London has a couple of really, really good vantages of Downtown that would work at night -- namely the Adelaide Street bridge over the Railway, or the Wharncliff Road bridge over the Thames. The great thing about shooting from a bridge, is the parapet wall can substitute as a tripod.
> 
> :cheers:


lol, well you seem like one with such clean photos and a nice website. 
-Hopefully you looked before you went on the VMP overpass, took your shots fast than ran the hell outa there!
-As for taking other shots, that's not a bad idea. Maybe I'll take some shots of the London skyline from various vantage points. As for long exposure night shots, I'll have to experiment with how they work before I can get one to take. They all came out blurry when I tried it at night.



ssiguy2 said:


> O Haljackey you're such a sweetheart.
> Any others?


lol :cripes:

No, not right now. Hopefully Steve's photos pacified your craving for now. :lol:



sonysnob said:


> I don't know how to post an embedded video into this forum, but there is a really cool video of Highway 410 on youtube:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtNelNp3lt0


Embedded.








sonysnob said:


> I have got some more 402 as well. I didn't reply earlier in case you were looking for stuff specifically from Haljacky.


OMG the 402 has more concrete sections now? Why!?!?!?!

Asphalt is so smooth, concrete is too bumpy. If you're going to use concrete foundations, lay a coat of asphalt over it for the driving surface.


----------



## sonysnob

^ The 402 was reconstructed in concrete from just east of Maudamin Road easterly to east of Highway 21 South. I was surprised at this too, however, given how expensive oil was in 2007/08 when this work was completed, it shouldn't be too shocking.


----------



## Haljackey

sonysnob said:


> I don't know how to post an embedded video into this forum, but there is a really cool video of Highway 410 on youtube:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtNelNp3lt0


^^

Found another video by the same person who made the one above which shows Highways 401, 400 and 407 in Toronto. The section of Highway 401 traveled in the video is the busiest section of highway in the world.






_*Note: You might want to mute the sound and play some tunes yourself. _

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJEsE0n3jyQ


----------



## CptSchmidt

ssiguy2 said:


> ^ I agree.
> The DRL could use ROW and elevation but you would people in the area bitch. Anyone who decides to move next the busiest railway section in the country and very busy elevated expressway and then bitches about elevated rapid transit gets no empathy from me.


I think, even though it's expensive, Toronto should consider underground highways like Montreal's Ville-Marie. Montreal's got an excellent setup that you'd think Toronto would at least try to borrow some ideas from. Especially since Toronto's desperate for space...

Now that Rob Ford is a front-runner in the mayoral election, though, we can't expect any progressive thoughts materialising in Toronto for years to come.


----------



## Haljackey

CptSchmidt said:


> I think, even though it's expensive, Toronto should consider underground highways like Montreal's Ville-Marie. Montreal's got an excellent setup that you'd think Toronto would at least try to borrow some ideas from. Especially since Toronto's desperate for space...
> 
> Now that Rob Ford is a front-runner in the mayoral election, though, we can't expect any progressive thoughts materialising in Toronto for years to come.


Never say never, things can still change. Still another month to go before we decide who our mayor is going to be. Wait until the last week, or better yet, wait until the election is over.


----------



## sonysnob

Kitchener at night:


----------



## Haljackey

I find it kinda crazy that Kitchener only has 2 junctions with the 401 (within it's city limits).

Also the one with Highway 8 only connects to the 401 eastbound, You need to get off the freeway and King Street (also Highway 8?) to access 401 westbound.

Although I do recall seeing plans for reconstructing that junction so there's direct connections everywhere.


----------



## Haljackey

More shots from me:

Highway 402 seen from the Highway 4 overpass, looking east:









And west:









The Highbury Avenue expressway seen from the Commissioners Road overpass, looking north.









With these photos, I'm pretty much done visually documenting the highway system in London. Hope you enjoyed them!


----------



## LMB

A bit OT: 
From the embedded video I can see what is the definition of a "freeway". What is a "highway" then? Does it have a fixed definition (even an unofficial one), or is it just anything other than a simple two-lane road? Thanks.


----------



## LMB

A bit OT: 
From the embedded video I can see what is the definition of a "freeway". What is a "highway" then? Does it have a fixed definition (even an unofficial one), or is it just anything other than a simple two-lane road? Thanks.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Highway = public road, usually a major road, but not necessarily a motorway / freeway.


----------



## Haljackey

Perhaps our friend Wikipedia can help.

"A highway is a public road, especially a major road connecting two or more destinations."
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway

"A freeway is a limited access divided highway with grade separated junctions and without traffic lights or stop signs."
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeway

However, the terms highway and freeway can vary from country to country, and sometimes even from region to region.


----------



## Xusein

For a relatively cold place, Ontario really does do a good job of keeping its highways in relatively good shape.

They are doing some construction work now, but the quality is generally worse in New York State.


----------



## sonysnob

^ What were they doing to Highbury when you took that photo?


----------



## Haljackey

(Bringing over picture from last page)



Haljackey said:


> The Highbury Avenue expressway seen from the Commissioners Road overpass, looking north.





sonysnob said:


> ^ What were they doing to Highbury when you took that photo?


The Highbury expressway has been under construction for months. I believe concrete southbound lanes are currently under restoration. The surface has been pounded for nearly the entire stretch of the expressway. It's been a huge pain for motorists who are fed up with how long the project is taking to complete.

Here's a photo from the other side:








*
Full size here if you want to see more detail*


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## Haljackey

Opps! Double post. How can I delete this message?


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## sonysnob

In the spirit of concrete highways:








Highway 401 near Windsor.


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## Haljackey

Looks good, except for that one strip of asphalt. Couldn't they just cover that small bridge segment with concrete?


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## sonysnob

Ontario seems to have some sort of strange phobia with concrete decked bridges. They do exist in the province, but even structures on the 407 are surfaced in asphalt.

Hal (or anybody else), is there a way to resize an image in this forum?


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## Haljackey

sonysnob said:


> Ontario seems to have some sort of strange phobia with concrete decked bridges. They do exist in the province, but even structures on the 407 are surfaced in asphalt.
> 
> Hal (or anybody else), is there a way to resize an image in this forum?


Speaking of the 407, you all heard about the plane that landed on the highway, right?










Like something straight out of a movie... 

Reminds me a lot of the space shuttle in The Core landing in a concrete river.





(Skip to about 1:30 through)

Oh, and I'm not sure how to resize photos here. You might have to do that off-site Scott.


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## sonysnob

It's amazing that pilot was able to manage to land on the 407 without hitting any cars. That photo you posted is pretty cool too. The photographer has a keen eye to include the sign to Buttonville Airport in the photo.


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## Andrew92

Hello friends, I'm new here, I draw much attention Canada, it is a great country, especially caught my attention roads, are incredible, but I really believe that compared to the U.S.?


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## Elnerico

new Port Mann bridge going up, sorry I didn't have time to go look if there were previous posts about the Highway 1 "gateway" program going on around metro vancouver. 










new bridge on the left, old Port Mann on the right..


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## Andlauer

Elnerico said:


> new Port Mann bridge going up, sorry I didn't have time to go look if there were previous posts about the Highway 1 "gateway" program going on around metro vancouver.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> new bridge on the left, old Port Mann on the right..


First of all, that is a bridge, therefore should be in the bridge section of the infrastructure forum. Second, thats an outdated rendering. The newly designed bridge looks completely different. Third, the Gateway Program is a joke and reaffirms the fact that the lowermainland has the worst highway/road network in North America.


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## Andlauer

IrishMan2010 said:


> Canadian highways are impressive.


In Ontario, yes they are

West of the rockies? Not so much


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## isaidso

Andlauer said:


> In Ontario, yes they are
> 
> West of the rockies? Not so much


They're good in Quebec and most of the Maritimes as well. I can't speak about the Prairies as I've not been there.


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## Haljackey

isaidso said:


> They're good in Quebec and most of the Maritimes as well. I can't speak about the Prairies as I've not been there.


Quebec may have a lot of highways, but they generally are not maintained as well as highways in Ontario and Nova Scotia, for example. Did you hear about the overpass that collapsed not too many years ago? Their system is not much better than the Interstate Highways of the United States.


Good to see some posts here. For a while there I thought it was just sonysnob and I. :lol:


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## Andlauer

Haljackey said:


> Quebec may have a lot of highways, but they generally are not maintained as well as highways in Ontario and Nova Scotia, for example. Did you hear about the overpass that collapsed not too many years ago? Their system is not much better than the Interstate Highways of the United States.


US Interstates are very well maintained and designed.


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## Nexis

Andlauer said:


> US Interstates are very well maintained and designed.


not all of them , some Midwestern states can't afford theres anymore and there falling apart. Most Northeastern Highways are narrow and congested. The South is ok , the West Coast Varies.


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## christos-greece

Around Alberta, on Highway 93 the scenery its really very nice 

@Haljackey: I had asked here (not you of course ) if motorway 401 is the extension of the avenue of Toronto
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1365/5113004588_8ceb1b5780_b.jpg


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## Haljackey

ChrisZwolle said:


> The busiest freeway in the U.S. is the I-405 near Seal Beach with 395,000 vehicles per day. However, some Houston freeways are gaining ground, with US 59 having 330,000 vehicles per day. The I-10 in Phoenix is forecast to grow to 430,000 vehicles per day.
> 
> However, nothing beats the projected 2020 volume of the I-635 in Dallas; 500,000 vehicles per day.
> 
> 
> 1


That's nuts. Looking at both Houston and Phoenix, there seems to be other routes through or around the city people can take. The 635 in Dallas seems just be a ring-road-like route. I can see how it connects to other highways in the region (such as the high 5) but it looks like there are many, many other routes motorists can take.

The 401 in Toronto is the only true east-west route through the city. The 407 is tolled it's eastern terminus ends without a freeway connection (although they're trying to fix that). The QEW/Gardiner Expressway simply winds it's way back to the 401 via Highway 427 (also a very busy road, AADT's over 300,000) and the Don Valley Parkway.

The busiest section of the 401 is 16 lanes wide, and the plan for the route in Phoenix is 24 designed to handle a load similar to this section. I wonder if they made this part of the highway 24 lanes... Would it be able to move more volumes through as that part is normally congested? That would involve serious reconstruction of major interchanges in a city where there's much public opposition to highway building.



christos-greece said:


> @Haljackey: I had asked here (not you of course ) if motorway 401 is the extension of the avenue of Toronto
> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1365/5113004588_8ceb1b5780_b.jpg


That's the Gardiner Expressway that carves it's way into Downtown Toronto. Highway 401 is to the north of here. See this map for reference:


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## ChrisZwolle

> The busiest section of the 401 is 16 lanes wide, and the plan for the route in Phoenix is 24 designed to handle a load similar to this section. I wonder if they made this part of the highway 24 lanes... Would it be able to move more volumes through as that part is normally congested? That would involve serious reconstruction of major interchanges in a city where there's much public opposition to highway building.


Contrary to popular belief, 16 lanes is not that generous capacity for 430.000 vehicles per day. 16 lanes can handle 350.000 vpd pretty smoothly, but if you're near 400.000 it gets problematic, not to mention 430.000 vpd. Another problem is the local-express setup, while necessary, if traffic doesn't distribute evenly across the carriageways, congestion will appear on one of the carriageways. 

I think the high traffic volumes are partially a result of the lack of downtown-bound routes, which means traffic towards downtown has to take the 401 first to get to a north-south route. The same problem is with the I-635 in Dallas. They just use the bypass to get to another downtown-bound route.


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## Haljackey

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think the high traffic volumes are partially a result of the lack of downtown-bound routes, which means traffic towards downtown has to take the 401 first to get to a north-south route. The same problem is with the I-635 in Dallas. They just use the bypass to get to another downtown-bound route.


According to Metropolitan Toronto Technical Transportation Planning Committee, 52% of commuters use Highway 401 to get to downtown Toronto. That's an insane number.

As for capacity improvements, our ministry of Transportation is planning on improving the Highway 400/401 interchange which is part of the 401's busiest segment. Construction won't start until at least 2015 though.


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## Metro One

I have always been in favour of a balanced approach between highways and mass transit, but a 24 lane wide freeway is way beyond that balance for me. That is just asinine!


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ There is a lightrail in that corridor in Phoenix. 

However, the 24-lane section is just a few miles long, as over 1 million people are dependent on that single section of I-10 for their travels to downtown Phoenix or other locations in the metro area. If you think about it, 430.000 vpd = ~ 215.000 individual vehicles = ~ 258.000 people, just 25% of the people in that area will actually use that section of Interstate 10 for commuting, shopping, recreation, etc.

I don't think you can "enforce" a balance between mass transit or roads though. People who like that idea believe too much in a perfect world. Canada is a free country, where people fortunately can decide themselves which mode of transport they prefer.


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## sonysnob

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't think you can "enforce" a balance between mass transit or roads though. People who like that idea believe too much in a perfect world. Canada is a free country, where people fortunately can decide themselves which mode of transport they prefer.


A government elected by the general population can chose to invest in public transportation rather than a 24-lane highway. Further, government can institute zoning by-laws that encourage transit friendly development, and limit things like drive-thru's, in an effort to discourage auto dependency.

Not choosing sides, just pointing this out.


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## ChrisZwolle

Yes, usually they start with some policy changes to steer it in the intended direction. However, this usually does not generate the desired effect, so more drastic measures have to be taken, like reducing parking space, less optimal traffic signalling or reducing roadway capacity. You don't need to have a phd or work at NASA to figure out that reducing road capacity by 30% to reduce traffic by 10% eventually turns out to be worse than the before situation.


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## sonysnob

^ I agree. A lot of transportation planning has to be proactive for transit. It is hard to retrofit auto-centric development for transit. A lot of cities surrounding Toronto are struggling to implement good transit right now, because these cities (such as Vaughan and Mississauga) were never designed with transit in mind.

I am a roads guy (take a look at my website at the bottom of this post to prove it), but I can speak from experience that the areas surrounding the GTA that are the most auto-centric, are definitely the most congested.


----------



## Haljackey

sonysnob said:


> I am a roads guy (take a look at my website at the bottom of this post to prove it), but I can speak from experience that the areas surrounding the GTA that are the most auto-centric, are definitely the most congested.


Well that's true for almost any city in North America. The suburbs are designed with the automobile in mind while cities have the density to support mass transit. 

So the problem comes when those in the suburbs want to get to the city via driving. Since the city invests more in transit than their surrounding communities, their road infrastructure may be lacking. This then causes backups and whatnot that can only be solved by building more roads, upgrading existing corridors or encouraging those in the suburbs to commute via transit.

If it were any other road, I'd be against building a 24 lane mammoth. The fact is that the 401 is the only east-west route in a region of over 8 million and is already the busiest highway in the world. I think making the route more efficient is justified. 

This doesn't mean you have to widen the highway... upgrading interchanges to handle higher volumes, be more efficient and safer can work too. For example the major junctions could be built as stacks (427,400,Allen [which could actually be downgraded as the freeway was not completed] and 404/DVP) as that might improve overall traffic flow. Working on the collector-express transfers and whatnot might help too, not to mention adding room for HOV lanes or light rail to run in the highway's right of way like other cities.

Just throwing out ideas here. The solution to the problem is much bigger than simply widening a highway. Changing the way people commute/think is a start. What will happen to automobile use once gas prices are outrageously high and hydrogen fuel cell cars are still unaffordable?


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## TheCat

Haljackey said:


> So the problem comes when those in the suburbs want to get to the city via driving. Since the city invests more in transit than their surrounding communities, their road infrastructure may be lacking. This then causes backups and whatnot that can only be solved by building more roads, upgrading existing corridors or encouraging those in the suburbs to commute via transit.


I think a hybrid approach works quite well. I don't think that in Toronto's case anything can ever beat the subway when it comes to going downtown efficiently. Lately I noticed we've been having very frequent delays on the subway, but hopefully those are resolved when the new signal system is in place (and the new trains are quite nice too).

While many people are against parking lots in the city, I believe that building high-capacity parking lots at major subway hubs (like Finch, Dowsview) is a good idea. I've become frustrated with the bus recently (due to annoying construction at Finch Station), so I now drive to Downsview Station daily, park my car there, and then take the subway to work (I would never ever drive downtown to work).

I would focus on this approach, while improving the public transit in the city itself. I think that the suburbs are too sparse to be effectively served by public transport. I'm not saying that I'm against development of public transport in the GTA, but the reality is that in most areas outside of Toronto proper, the car remains the most convenient choice and that won't change anytime soon.



> This doesn't mean you have to widen the highway... upgrading interchanges to handle higher volumes, be more efficient and safer can work too. For example the major junctions could be built as stacks (427,400,Allen [which could actually be downgraded as the freeway was not completed] and 404/DVP) as that might improve overall traffic flow. Working on the collector-express transfers and whatnot might help too, not to mention adding room for HOV lanes or light rail to run in the highway's right of way like other cities.


They should really do something about the 404/DVP/401 interchange. That's one of the biggest choke points in the entire freeway system. I've taken the 404 toward the DVP (around 11am) twice in the last 2 years, and I said to myself - never again. From some directions you only have a single-lane ramp serving an insane amount of traffic.

As for downgrading the Allen, I don't see much point, although I wonder if anything can be done about the "left turn hell" onto Eglinton.


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## Haljackey

The Highway 401/404/DVP interchange is the busiest junction in Canada, serving over 600,000 vehicles per day. Upgrading this to a stack should be priority.. only 2 lanes of the DVP/404 continue through the interchange and the ramps are low capacity (especially the loop ramps). There's just so many ramps in this junction, plus the 401 collector-express transfers that contribute to it's congestion as well.

The Allen interchange is aging, and was built for something much more than it is now. Removing some ramps in this junction will allow for a wider Highway 401 to pass underneath. For example, only 2 eastbound collector lanes go under the interchange due to a direct eastbound express connector from the Allen. You don't need express lane connections here. There's enough room around the interchange to improve the exchanges to improve overall traffic flow for the 401.

Subway is the way to go for transit in a city like Toronto. All those canceled expressways mean there's increased demand on the surface streets and transit. Going underground is the best way because you're essentially creating a new needed artery. It may be expensive but Toronto has the population, density and demand to support it. 

Compare Toronto's highway and transit system to Houston and Madrid, cities of similar population. Houston has gone nuts with highway building while Madrid is more of a hybrid with both an impressive highway and subway system. Toronto on the other hand is lacking in both categories and the blame can be put on a variety of issues.

Just look at my hometown of London, Ontario. Once the hub of Southwestern Ontario, Kitchener-Waterloo has left us in the dust. They built a freeway system while we canceled ours, and now they're getting rapid transit while we don't even have a bus terminal. 

Crazy thing is London is still bigger than K-W, even when you factor in the metro area (10th biggest in Canada) but that is going to change soon. My city's edge has been lost on a "do nothing" approach to transportation planning and on a variety of other issues and we're paying the price.


Bleh, getting a bit off topic there... back to Canadian Highways.


Here's a nifty timelapse of Highway 401 near the 404/Don Valley Parkway interchange in Toronto:






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIxtmvQZUi4


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## Nexis

The GTA should take some pointers form the DC region. The DC region over the past 2 decades has been slowly switching form Auto-Centric to Transit Oriented. Theres only so many highways and lanes you can build. You need to improve the inner Toronto Transit and Expand the Go Regional Rail system. Most North American Cities are starting to move away form Auto-Centric and to Transit Oriented , Toronto is one of a few cities and regions that isn't. LA , Vancouver , Omaha , DC , Calgary , Miami , Baltimore , Montreal all are slowly move back to there Urban cores. Expanding Go Regional Rail system can really help the GTA solve some of the Traffic nightmares on the 401 , 427 , 403 , QEW.... 
Look at those 2 videos and see if that could work in the GTA.


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## dibble zee

The Sea-to-Sky highway is a joke when compared with other mountain hugging highways. No tunnels, no elevated portions. All they did is chip away at the mountain side and pave. They spent the bare minimum on it and thats why there are still portions of the highway with traffic signals and 1 lane instead of 2. You can't even really call it a highway.


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## ChrisZwolle

> The DC region over the past 2 decades has been slowly switching form Auto-Centric to Transit Oriented.


Stop advertising these 5 sq mile projects as if they are changing the whole Northeast.


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## lambersart2005

...at least it's a beginning. I wouldn't be as pessimistic. Of course, the US and Canada aren't smart growth's paradise but somehow everything has to get started. And I am also strongly convinced that if regional transit in the GTA would be constantly improved it would have an impact on travel patterns. Sure, density in the suburban areas is not transit-adequate but if you massively invest in transferiums/p+r/b+r projects - where would be the problem?


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## Nexis

ChrisZwolle said:


> Stop advertising these 5 sq mile projects as if they are changing the whole Northeast.


I'm not , i'm comparing to very similar regions. Its not 5sq , more like 300 SQ mi of changing sprawl.


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## dibble zee

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ There is a lightrail in that corridor in Phoenix.
> 
> However, the 24-lane section is just a few miles long, as over 1 million people are dependent on that single section of I-10 for their travels to downtown Phoenix or other locations in the metro area. If you think about it, 430.000 vpd = ~ 215.000 individual vehicles = ~ 258.000 people, just 25% of the people in that area will actually use that section of Interstate 10 for commuting, shopping, recreation, etc.
> 
> I don't think you can "enforce" a balance between mass transit or roads though. People who like that idea believe too much in a perfect world. Canada is a free country, where people fortunately can decide themselves which mode of transport they prefer.


I like this guy


----------



## Plumber73

dibble zee said:


> The Sea-to-Sky highway is a joke when compared with other mountain hugging highways. No tunnels, no elevated portions. All they did is chip away at the mountain side and pave. They spent the bare minimum on it and thats why there are still portions of the highway with traffic signals and 1 lane instead of 2. You can't even really call it a highway.


Now you're just being annoying. I was seriously thinking of just ignoring this, but why miss out on some entertainment... What other mountain hugging highways? Why can't you call it a highway? Why would you spend more than necessary on this upgrade? What do you mean by elevated portions? I've driven this highway about 40 to 50 times in the last year... I've heard nothing but good feedback from other people on the improvements. It is one of the most enjoyable driving experiences, which I'd put alongside the Icefields Parkway in Alberta. No, it is not an 8 lane, 20 billion dollar autobahn with cameras and special lighting everywhere, but do we really need that? "All they did is chip away at the mountain side and pave." <<< They did not just "chip away", they actually had to build out in many areas.


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## Metro One

^^ Exactly, it is actually a really nice highway relative to its daily usage, and as shown in the video many of the junctions were built as grade separated interchanges. To have built it any larger than is would have been a huge jump in cost. Such money has been better spent on upgrading other, more heavily used highways in our province, such as the major upgrades being done to the 97 in the Okanagan, the #1 near Kamloops and between Golden & the Alberta border and the 97 upgrades between Cache Creek and Prince George. 

These are all expensive projects involving the construction of many bridges, tunnels, several new interchanges and the blasting away of entire mountain sides (and in a few cases blasting right through entire hills). 

Again, BC's highways are improving everyday, and since highway construction is primarily a Provincial initiative in Canada, we are doing pretty good for our relatively small population (4.5 million) vs. our incredibly rugged landscape.


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## sonysnob




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## Xusein

^^ McCowan Road overpass, I presume. Nice pic.


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## sonysnob

^ it is from McCowan.

Some more from Ontario:
















































































These photos are taken along Highway 17, generally along the northshore of Lake Superior. Highway 17 from Nipigon to Marathon is far and away Ontario's most beautiful highway. I shot these almost 4.5 years ago, and everytime I look at them I want to go back.

:cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

Wow, great. 

Undivided 4-lane roads are virtually non-existent in the Netherlands, especially non-urban sections.


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## urbanlover

I'm suprised the story about the 300 stranded motorist hasn't been posted yet


Canada Military Evacuates Motorists Stranded by Snow 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703734204576019670850090878.html?mod=googlenews_wsj



> Canada's military began airlifting hundreds of motorists stranded for 24 hours on a stretch of highway in southwestern Ontario, after a blizzard snarled traffic and caused a key U.S.-Canada bridge to suspend commercial traffic into Ontario.
> 
> The Ontario Provincial Police estimate 360 vehicles were stuck as the storm dumped snow over rural Highway 402 about 20 miles east of Sarnia, Ontario. No injuries were reported.


Read more: Snow snarls traffic in Detroit, trucks back up | freep.com | Detroit Free Press http://www.freep.com/article/201012...affic-in-Detroit-trucks-back-up#ixzz189cyqSib




> Traffic is snarled on three Detroit freeways this evening because of the closure of the Blue Water Bridge in Port Huron to truck traffic.
> 
> Canadian government forced the closure after lake-effect snow pummeled the Highway 402 east of Sarnia, stranding hundreds of motorists, many of whom had to be rescued by Canadian military personnel.
> 
> As a result, hundreds of trucks were heading for the Ambassador Bridge in Southwest Detroit to cross the border.
> 
> By 8 p.m., traffic on northbound I-75 was back up across the Rouge River Bridge, with mostly trucks lining up to get on the Ambassador bridge.
> 
> On eastbound I-96, the backup was even longer. Motorists reported traffic that was back up past the interchange with I-94 and several miles onto I-94.


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## Haljackey

Motorists are actually trying to physically remove the barriers that have been set up at the 401/402 interchange in London.










I'm just glad to hear everyone stranded on the 402 got to safety with no injury. Always nice to have some good news.


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## Haljackey

Highway 401 in London looking west.


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## Tincap

urbanlover said:


> I'm suprised the story about the 300 stranded motorist hasn't been posted yet


This was taken on London Line, which is part of the EDR (Emergency Detour Route) running parallel with the 402. Obviously not a good idea sending these trucks up that road, that day...









Credit: Glenn Olgilvie/CP

I'll -uuuh- _dig_ up some more pix.

EDIT: Some more pix.

This on the 402 itself. Top one showing local snowmobilers provide assistance. Normally these machines are not permitted on Ontario freeways...


















Credit: Dan Janisse/Postmedia News

Ground zero...










Credit: Beth Campbell

Video link here ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFKEnSdg3sw

Lot's more out there!

~BG


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## Metro One

^^That was crazy what happened in southern Ontario, I heard one person died in their van. 

Anyways, here is a highway project update from the Gateway Project in Metro-Vancouver.

This image shows the south approach of the new Port Mann Bridge and how insanely wide it is going to be (in fact it will be the world's widest bridge deck upon completion).

This image also shows how much land has been dug out of the trough to fit the new through lanes and collector / distributer system being built along this stretch. You can also see some of the work being done on the interchange at the top of the hill, but that is still in its early stages. You can see westward traffic is now being diverted to the east as work continues on the the new overpass structures. The gateway project is a huge project and will really improve the #1 through Metro Vancouver.










source: http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5162/...0a658bc8_b.jpg 

I will try and post some more updates regarding the new interchanges, fly overs, etc as this project continues.


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## Metro One

Well, as many know on this thread there are currently 3 billion dollars worth of highway expansion projects occurring in the Metro-Vancouver area (primarily the #1 & the South Fraser Perimeter Road), but I would like to highlight some of the other projects occurring elsewhere in BC. 

Highway 17 on southern Vancouver Island (from the ferries to Victoria) has adopted a long term improvement strategy (to become a full freeway)

Here is the link:

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/publications/reports_and_studies/patbay/2007-03-15-Final_Report_Hwy17_Corridor_Strategy.pdf

The first stage of this project is currently under construction, the McTavish interchange. Here is the render:











Highway 97 through the Okanagan is currently being widened to 4 lanes in most of the remaining 2 lane sections between Penticton and north of Vernon, including the addition of several new interchanges.

Here is the link to the entire corridor project:

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/okanaganvalley/index.html 

Here are some of the renders:

The Westside Road interchange currently U/C south of Kelowna:











This interchange is north of Vernon and is part of a larger twinning segment of the 97 Corridor project. I believe this portion is nearing completion.





















And this is the most impressive portion of the 97 corridor project, soon to start construction, it is between Winfield and Oyama, and will be a completely new road segment (the current highway along this portion hugs the lake shore and is only 2 lanes).

Watch the video, it is cool:

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/okanaganvalley/projects/winfield-oyama/


I have now run out of time, I will soon post information about all the #1 upgrades along with other highway projects in BC.

Cheers


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## Fargo Wolf

Is that ever gonna be nice when it's completed. (Winfield to Oyama) Now if they could A: Nuke Vernon off the face of the Earth and make it far LESS Schizophrenic to drive through, or B: Grow some serious gonads and build a tunnel under the wretched city. Either would be a VAST improvement over having to drive through the s**thole as it is now. :bleep: :soapbox:  :mad2: :wallbash:


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## sonysnob

That Port Mann bridge upgrade is a huge project for BC. For a province that isn't known for having any substantial highways, this certainly is a huge departure from the standard.

Good for BC.


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## Fargo Wolf

The highway that's there now, was built in the 60s. Back then, the freeway was more than adequate.


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## Metro One

^^The upgraded #1 through Metro-Vancouver will be the largest freeway west of the Golden Horseshoe in Canada once completed, especially the Port Mann, Cape Horn interchange area.

As for bypassing vernon, there is actually a detailed plan already proposed for doing such a thing, a full freeway that will circle west of Vernon. Obviously it is still only in draft form but it is an active idea currently.


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## Fargo Wolf

Metro One said:


> As for bypassing vernon, there is actually a detailed plan already proposed for doing such a thing, a full freeway that will circle west of Vernon. Obviously it is still only in draft form but it is an active idea currently.


Any links? The sooner, the better.


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## Metro One

^^Unfortunetly it tlloks like the Vernon bypass project is on the shelf right now, I looked it up this morning and recently the NIMBYs came out and are against it, apperently they enjoy having all that traffic roaring through their downtown instead. hno:

Anyways, i am sure it will be resurrected again as traffic volumes continue to increase as the population expands in the Okanagan, but anyways it is nice to see several decent highway projects occurring between Penticton and Vernon currently, such as the ones I posted above.


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## Fargo Wolf

I was just talking with a friend on MSN, and she said the Winfield-Oyama re alignment, is doomed to fail.

"they're going to build it over top of the old highway, and it's been proven that the underlying surface is riddled with stress cracks. As soon as the blast it, it pushes those cracks deeper. They'll end up with what happened on Westside Rd 5 years ago"

For those who don't know, the BC Ministry of Transportation re-aligned a section of a local road, called Westside Road. (It runs along the west side of Okanagan Lake, thus the name) They blasted, the stress cracks let go, and a huge chunk of hillside came down. The road was closed for two weeks I believe. Same thing near Peachland.

"so it should be interesting...watch the fucking highway slide down the hill and into the lake."


----------



## Metro One

^^hmm, well I have a feeling it will be as safe as any other highway built through a mountainous area in North America. They have to do many geological sampling / testing procedures before anything can be built. That is one of the main regions highways in developed / western nations usually take far longer to build (and are far more expensive per km) than there counterparts in developing or non developed nations. Also, there are many mitigation procedures that are done to reduce hazards as well, i wont be loosing any sleep over it  

The Sea to Sky, along with many other pacific highways in North America, is likely far more dangerous and hazardous than this proposed alignment. Much of the sea to sky highway is built along a large granite plutone that is now sheeting (because it is now exposed) and these faults / cracks are running near vertical, which makes it very susceptible to slumping / sliding.


----------



## khoojyh

have anyone tried to drove from Montreal to Vancouver? very interesting.


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## sonysnob

^ I did Toronto to Vancouver back in 2004. It's a big country.


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## sonysnob

dibble zee said:


> I live in Vancouver, I drive on highway 1 each day for my commute. You're right, there is so much going on right now with that project, yet all I've ever seen in this thread are pictures of the Port Mann bridge being posted instead of the actual highway. Its quite distressing


How is posting pictures of the single most interesting project in Brittish Columbia to other site readers (some like myself, who live in other provinces) distressing? And don't say that a bridge photo is off-topic, it's not. The new Port Man bridge carries the Trans-Canada Highway. Further, despite the claims otherwise about BC's highways, the new bridge is amazing. It is unlike any other structure in Canada. Show it some respect.

Want some BC highway photos? Go out and take some!

But please, don't ruin the forum for those of us who enjoy it.


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## Haljackey

sonysnob said:


> How is posting pictures of the single most interesting project in Brittish Columbia to other site readers (some like myself, who live in other provinces) distressing? And don't say that a bridge photo is off-topic, it's not. The new Port Man bridge carries the Trans-Canada Highway. Further, despite the claims otherwise about BC's highways, the new bridge is amazing. It is unlike any other structure in Canada. Show it some respect.
> 
> Want some BC highway photos? Go out and take some!


+1

I really like seeing pictures of the Port Mann Bridge. Sure this isn't the "bridge" section but it also applies to the highways thread. Many roads have bridges and as long as you aren't showing shots of the bridge from every angle and discussing the design in considerable detail, showing a picture of a bridge here is acceptable.


Look: a there's a bridge in this image! EEK! :llama: 








http://www.flickr.com/photos/by_pui/5354023588/

That's a photo of Highway 401 at the start of the primary collector/express system near Highway 409 in Toronto.


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## Haljackey

Some new photos from the Ontario Ministry of Transportation:

Windsor-Essex Parkway construction. When complete, it will connect Highway 401 with Interstate 75 in the USA via a new bridge.









Highway 401 by Pearson Airport:









Wildlife crossing designs for the Highway 69 twinning.









New bridges being built for the Highway 400 extension.


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## Metro One

With all of the upgrades the #1 through Metro-Vancouver may become one of the more impressive highway drives in Canada (likely not the most impressive, but one of them).

A large stretch of the road will now be between 8 and 10 lanes wide (from Grandview Highway (Van / Burnaby border) to Surrey), and the entire stretch from the Sea to Sky involves the beautiful trip along the upper levels portion of the #1 (fantastic views, almost European in feel driving along the mountains side overlooking the ocean and city) then crossing Burrard Inlet over the Iron Workers Memorial Bridge, then through the Cassiar Tunnel (a tunnel used in many movies for their freeway tunnel scenes) then through all of the re-vamp interchanges with several new fly overs / ramps and eventually across the Port Mann Bridge, which is going to be the world's widest bridge deck upon completion, with Canada's tallest bridge towers. 

So anyways, I have loaded up all of the renderings of the Port Mann, Highway 1 project through Metro Vancouver, here they are traveling West to East.

The project begins just south of the McGill St. interchange. Here the highway will be expanded from 4 to 6 lanes through the Cassiar Tunnel (the tunnel was pre-built for this expansion)










Continuing through Vancouver










This is where the major upgrades begin, the highway will now be 8 through lanes wide. Not the HOV only fly overs. We are now in Burnaby.










The next portion I could not find an updated render for it, so we skip one here. this interchange has needed a revamp for years, happy to see it being done!



















The New Gaglardi interchange










East of Gaglardi










This portion has now included new Rapid Bus / Bus only ramps to Lougheed Town Centre










The new Brunette Interchange (This re-vamp was originally going to be larger but the plan now is to build an entirely new much larger interchange just east of this one connecting a few important arteries and have this one become more of a local connection) 










The New King Edward Overpass










A render of this overpass 










Now we are getting to the big daddy interchange, this is the western end of the Cape Horn where the eastbound Lougheed traffic will now fly over to the south side of the #1










And here is the heart of the Cape Horn










Here is a render of the interchange looking west (This picture sure made the hippies in Vancouver shit themselves, haha)










And the jewel of the project, the Port Mann Bridge










The new 152nd interchange (Now Surrey)










156 HOV / Transit only interchange










New 160th interchange



















New 176th Interchange










The green road is build and is the Golden Ears Way










New 192nd interchange with truck only ramps, although this is now under dispute, the city of Surrey wants a larger full access interchange so this may change.










The green is the new 200th street interchange completed a few years ago



















New 216th interchange










End of Project

So as you can see this is a very large highway project, and it will not be fully complete until 2013. I will try and take some pics of all the new fly overs that are taking shape over the next while.

Cheers


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## Haljackey

Awesome maps and photos, Metro One! Thanks for sharing them!

Currently the Highway 1 / Port Mann Bridge project in Metro Vancouver and its related components is by far the biggest infrastructure project going on in the country. Its well deserved if I must say as B.C. has been behind the ball compared to the rest of the country when it comes to highway infrastructure. 

Sorry to hear about your hippies. :hahano:


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## Fargo Wolf

Haljackey said:


> Sorry to hear about your hippies. :hahano:


I'm not sorry to hear about them. At least I don't look like one now.

Getting back on topic, awesome pics Metro one. 

200th was done back in 06, wasn't it?


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## dibble zee

I've been watching that Windsor/Essex Parkway project for a while now. Looks amazing. I can't wait until it and the bridge get built. Ontario keeps on setting the standard for Canadian highways.

As for the HWY 1 upgrades going on in BC I guess its big by lower mainland standards but compared to other areas in North America its still small potatoes. The bridge will be impressive though. 

As an infrastructure junky I'm pretty disapointed with the aesthetics of the HWY 1 upgrades. They still haven't addressed those awful looking pre-cast barriers with the holes in them. They'll be lining the new stretch of highway's center median hno:


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## sonysnob

Haljackey said:


> Currently the Highway 1 / Port Mann Bridge project in Metro Vancouver and its related components is by far the biggest infrastructure project going on in the country. Its well deserved if I must say as B.C. has been behind the ball compared to the rest of the country when it comes to highway infrastructure.


The last few years have been pretty good for Highway's in all of Canada

BC:
Sea to Sky Highway upgrades
Port Man and Hwy 1 Improvements

AB:
AB201 Calgary - East Freeway
AB216 Edmonton - Almost a full ring

ON:
Highway 11&69 twinning
Highway 401 Extension
Hwy 7 to Carleton Place

QC:
Autoroute 30 (!)
Autoroute 25 Extension
Route 175 Twinning.

While nowhere near the population of our Southern neighbour, our highway network is nothing to sneeze at.


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## Fargo Wolf

Haljackey said:


> Some new photos from the Ontario Ministry of Transportation:
> 
> New bridges being built for the Highway 400 extension.


What's with the huge blocks of plastic foam?


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## dibble zee

Fargo Wolf said:


> What's with the huge blocks of plastic foam?


Have you not driven along HWY 1 recently? They use the exact same blocks for all the on/off ramps and east/west approaches to the new Port Mann Bridge.


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## Fargo Wolf

dibble zee said:


> Have you not driven along HWY 1 recently? They use the exact same blocks for all the on/off ramps and east/west approaches to the new Port Mann Bridge.


Nope. The last time I drove that stretch of highway, was back in early 06 as I was in the process of moving to Norther Alberta at the time. I'm just curious as to why they are being used.


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## Metro One

sonysnob said:


> The last few years have been pretty good for Highway's in all of Canada
> 
> BC:
> Sea to Sky Highway upgrades
> Port Man and Hwy 1 Improvements
> 
> AB:
> AB201 Calgary - East Freeway
> AB216 Edmonton - Almost a full ring
> 
> ON:
> Highway 11&69 twinning
> Highway 401 Extension
> Hwy 7 to Carleton Place
> 
> QC:
> Autoroute 30 (!)
> Autoroute 25 Extension
> Route 175 Twinning.
> 
> While nowhere near the population of our Southern neighbour, our highway network is nothing to sneeze at.


For BC you can also add the South Fraser Perimeter Road, an entirely new 4 lane highway 40km long.

Also there was the Golden Ears Bridge and the Golden Ears Way (which is about 10km long)

Also all of the interior upgrades I was showing in previous posts plus other bridge projects such as the new Pitt River bridge and the new Kelowna Bridge to name a couple. 

BC is playing catch up but they have been building like mad for the last 5 years and there are several other large projects / programs on the table to be announced in the years coming. 

With all of these recently completed projects and the others in the works currently BC will actually have a decent highway system considering our huge land mass and jagged topography vs our relatively small population (and therefore small tax base) and the fact that unlike in the United States our freeways / highways are not built and fully funded by the federal government. 

And personally I find the road quality in BC better than Alberta and Saskatchewan on average, especially in the southern half of BC. (both I have been to several times and driven throughout). Ontario is still the best for highways I have driven in quality (even many areas in the states the road quality is no longer that good, many highways are definitely showing their age down south now)

And i have a feeling DibbleZee will dislike the fact that they primarily use jersey barriers in the Prairies as well. 

But I recommend that DibbleZee drives along the GEW, no holes in that highway's barriers.


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## Metro One

I dont think these have been posted here either, these are the highlights of the SFPR.

It is 40km long and will be built with 3 interchanges and 5 or 6 at grade intersections. I wish it was being built only with interchanges, but apparently their plan now is to transition these intersections over to interchanges as traffic increases over the coming years. A fog and mirrors excuse, simply the funding for this project was maxed.

That disappoints me, yes, but over all it will be a great project and it will fulfill an important missing link in our road network. 

Anyways, here are the highlights of this project (U/C currently)

This is the route overview:











Here is the Highway 17 / SFPR interchange, essentially the beginning of the SFPR










This is the most interesting aspect of the project for me, the SFPR highway 99 interchange










Here is the third interchange of the project, and a render of it:



















and this is a render of the highway running along the CN railroad and Fraser River:










Cheers!


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## sonysnob

Fargo Wolf said:


> What's with the huge blocks of plastic foam?


The MTO used Styrofoam to fill the highway to reduce the weight that the fill was going to place on the underlying fill. A lot of Northern Ontario has wet boggy soil described as muskeg that deforms under weight. The Styrofoam obviously weighs much less than crushed rock.

This is far from the first time that Styrofoam was used in highway construction in Ontario. Since (at least) the 1960s Styrofoam has been tried as fill to try and reduce the severity of frost heaves.


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## Haljackey

Oh the joys of winter driving.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSLoIY3bCv8

Video by Tom Stef. A lot of other road videos were added to his Yotube channel recently. Link if interested: http://www.youtube.com/user/vaughanweather

The drawings for the South Fraser Perimeter Road look cool! Seems like its going to be a nice drive along the river.


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## ssiguy2

It's rediculous that the SFPR is not freeway. This is what they did with HWY 10 and it's bumper to bumper and we all know they will NEVER put in those over passes in our lifetime. One only has to look at #99A to see that. 
It;s absurd that after Langley the road goes from 10 to 4 lanes.................it's going to be a total backup. In normal daily traffic this new HWY1 going from Surrey to Abbostford/East won't be any faster than it is now. You are going to have 5 lanes immediatley become 2. This means total congestion while the traffic merges just like the Massey tunnel where you have 3 lanes merging into 1. The traffic backup for up to 5 km. 
It is great that BC is improving it's roads but there is one huge difference between other highway construction and others in the rest of the country....................this one will be tolled by $3 each way. Right now the highway is free but it will now be tolled to get anywhere from east of Surrey/Langley to get to any North Fraser area. It will be interesting to how much busier the already over loaded Pattula and Alex Fraser become from people wanting to save themselves some money. This will also be VERY interesting when the Pattula comes down as will it will be needed as it is a thin. old. and traffic prone bridge and the province replaces it with, what the province says. will be another tolled bridge.


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## Fargo Wolf

sonysnob said:


> The MTO used Styrofoam to fill the highway to reduce the weight that the fill was going to place on the underlying fill. A lot of Northern Ontario has wet boggy soil described as muskeg that deforms under weight. The Styrofoam obviously weighs much less than crushed rock.
> 
> This is far from the first time that Styrofoam was used in highway construction in Ontario. Since (at least) the 1960s Styrofoam has been tried as fill to try and reduce the severity of frost heaves.


OK. Now I follow. In the 60s when the TCH was first made a freeway in the Vancouver region, sawdust/woodchips were used in the in boggy areas.

How successful has the use of styrofoam been in reducing frost heaves?



ssiguy2 said:


> It's rediculous that the SFPR is not freeway.


I thought it was going to have grade separated interchanges. Mind you, it IS the BC government, so maybe I'm expecting a bit much?


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## sonysnob

^ It must be fairly successful. The annual report that I read about the first application of foam was a long time ago, if my memory serves me. It must not be useless if they are still using it today.

Changing gears:
Hwy 24, Ontario:


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## dibble zee

Metro One said:


> But I recommend that DibbleZee drives along the GEW, no holes in that highway's barriers.


You mean the barriers they've crudely placed in one of the left hand lanes? Yeah those don't have holes. 

As for the rest of that road it doesn't have barriers at all in the middle. They cheaped out completely and just put a tiny median filled with shrubs in between the lanes. 

BC is building now because for the last 40 years its put off all these necessary upgrades while every other region in north america was building and planning for the future :lol: Never mind building for the coming decades, BC is trying to build their highways to handle capacity numbers from 10 years ago. What a joke.

As for aesthetics our highways just look strange compared to others. Its not a lack of funds, its a lack of design unity with the rest of the continent. We'll spend the money bringing our highways up to our own twisted, inbread standards


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## Plumber73

dibble zee said:


> BC is building now because for the last 40 years its put off all these necessary upgrades while every other region in north america was building and planning for the future :lol: Never mind building for the coming decades, BC is trying to build their highways to handle capacity numbers from 10 years ago. What a joke.


We'll have to start calling you Dibble "Jersey Barrier" Zee... Anyways, the commuting times in Vancouver Metro are very comparible to the other cities in Canada, and I've heard several times we have among the shortest average commute times of all the major Canadian cities. So, are we really behind that much?


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## go_leafs_go02

Plumber73 said:


> We'll have to start calling you Dibble "Jersey Barrier" Zee... Anyways, the commuting times in Vancouver Metro are very comparible to the other cities in Canada, and I've heard several times we have among the shortest average commute times of all the major Canadian cities. So, are we really behind that much?


Yes, we are.

I commute daily to Surrey, and I don't think there is a single place in North America where the roads have been put off this long for so long. 

Port Mann should have been twinned, expanded easily 15-20 years ago. Gateway is a nice patch, but still, it won't be perfect. Alot of shortcutting and cheaping out is being done on the project.

160 Street interchange in Surrey is being designed as a major pinch point because only 2 general purpose lanes will actually fit under the overpasses. There will be an HOV lane as well, but how do you go from 3 lanes from 200 street all the way into Vancouver, with the exception of one interchange?

the SFPR is continually having its interchange turn into signalized intersections, which being a truck route, will destroy any travel flow due to trucks having to slow down, stop, and regain speed again. 

Massey Tunnel is a gongshow, the Alex Fraser bridge is backed up for kilometers every morning, there's a TRAFFIC LIGHT on a freeway because someone doesn't want to cut down a tree or build an offramp.

There are no plans to expand the highway out to the Fraser Vally (Abbotsford, Chilliwack) nor does the Province have any additional plans or projects for the Lower Mainland once this is done.

I know for a fact, that my vote would easily go towards someone who's solution is improving the transportation network for all facets. Just because some hippies in Vancouver don't like freeways, doesn't mean that should dictate provincial policy for all.


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## Fargo Wolf

dibble zee said:


> They still haven't addressed those awful looking pre-cast barriers with the holes in them. They'll be lining the new stretch of highway's center median hno:


The two round holes in each section? I think those are casting/sling (since not all trucks are equipped with scissor style grabbers) holes. They also allow temporary construction signs to be mounted on the barrier.


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## Plumber73

go_leafs_go02 said:


> Yes, we are.
> 
> I commute daily to Surrey, and I don't think there is a single place in North America where the roads have been put off this long for so long....


I'm not saying the upgrades aren't necessary or anything like that. Just saying the average commute time here is on par with every other major Canadian city. I drive all over Greater Vancouver with my work, and I totally see the same things you're seeing. Just be glad you don't live in Surrey and commute into Vancouver. 

Btw - whenever I've had to drive to Surrey, it might take me around 40 minutes from Kits in the morning. On the return trip home, maybe up to twice that long.


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## Metro One

dibble zee said:


> *You mean the barriers they've crudely placed in one of the left hand lanes? Yeah those don't have holes. *
> 
> As for the rest of that road it doesn't have barriers at all in the middle. They cheaped out completely and just put a tiny median filled with shrubs in between the lanes.
> 
> BC is building now because for the last 40 years its put off all these necessary upgrades while every other region in north america was building and planning for the future :lol: Never mind building for the coming decades, BC is trying to build their highways to handle capacity numbers from 10 years ago. What a joke.
> 
> As for aesthetics our highways just look strange compared to others. Its not a lack of funds, its a lack of design unity with the rest of the continent. We'll spend the money bringing our highways up to our own twisted, inbread standards


:lol:

I see you have never driven much of the GEW. I also love how you say crudely put into place, man, such a spinner.

There is a centre median barrier from the GEW / Lougheed intersection in Maple Ridge all the way to just past the 200th street off ramp fly over. This is the entire highway's free flow stretch about 5km long. There are also shoulder barriers as well along much of that portion and beyond (such as the Ridge Meadows viaduct and the entire elevated bridge portion / approaches which I believe is 2.5 km long.) And yes, they have no holes and are not crudely put into place.

And as for go leafs go and fargo wolf, all of the information about the current design of the SFPR and the #1 are posted on the previous page by me.

The SFPR was first proposed with 4 interchanges, then it went up to 5, before going back down to 3. Luckily the most important junction (the 99) is being built as a full interchange (originally it was proposed only the 99 would be free flow and the SFPR would have 2 intersections), so this aspect for the SFPR has actually been improved in the finalized design. Yes, I too wish it was being built as a full freeway, but it will only have 5 or 6 at grade intersections along its 40km route, and 3 free flow interchanges, which will be far superior for truck traffic than their current options. And these intersections can be easily converted into interchanges in the near future. I forget who said it but someone said that the SFPR is going to be similar to the #10, i think that is not a fair comparison at all, instead it is more similar to the 91 when it was first opened in the mid 80s, a divided 4 lane freeway with interchanges and intersection spaces far apart akin to a full freeway. 

Many people on here may not remember this but when the 91 / Alex Fraser bridge was first constructed the 91 / 91 A junction was an at grade traffic light, as was the 91 / West Minster Highway intersection, the Howes St 91 intersection and the 72nd Ave / 91 intersection.

Only a few years after opening the 91/91A and Westminster Highway junctions were upgraded to full interchanges and just 3 years ago the Howes St. junction was upgraded into a full interchange. 

The 72nd Ave intersection was also suppose to be upgraded to a full interchange at the same time as the Howes St interchange upgrade, but there was a dispute between MoT and the city of Delta on the design, so it was never built even though the funds were available at the time (Delta wanted a west bound 72nd fly over to south bound 91 but the MoT felt this was not needed, because those who wished to travel southbound could just use the 64th Ave interchange less than 1km down the road.)

So, while I do wish they were building the SFPR 100% freeway off the bat, i am willing to bet in 10 years the majority, if not all, of the at grade intersections will have been upgraded to interchanges. 

As for the Highway 1 project, that is a gigantic project and anyone who has problems with it shows that no matter what is built, there will always be those who will complain that it is not enough.

There has been a highway upgrading / building frenzy in the Metro Vancouver area over the past few years and it is suppose to continue for a few more, with more projects in the works, but I am sure the same posters who said our roads are terrible a few years ago, and now, will be the same saying the exact same thing 5 years from now, simply because there is no pleasing some people.

For fun, here is a short list off the top of my head of highway projects in and near the Metro Vancouver area:

*Within Metro Vancouver*

Highway 15 (20km long) and highway 10 (26 km long) were both widened from 2 lanes to 4 (this was completed in 2008 / 2009 I believe)

The Howes St interchange was built on the 91 and the the 91 / Stewardson Way interchange was completely re-built. Also completed aruond 2008 / 2009.

Much of King George Boulevard has been increased from 2 to 4 lanes. (Much of these 4 lane expansion projects include the replacing of many small bridges)

The Golden Ears Bridge and GEW was built (opened in 2009), which included 3 interchanges and involved 5 km of elevated road deck (the Maple Meadows viaduct and ramps, the GEB itself, the south approach viaduct which is over 1km long and its ramps and several other smaller overpasses and bridges built along the route).

The new 7 Lane Pitt River bridge just opened last year and it included the construction of a new interchange between the #7 and #7b on its western approach.

A new 600 meter long cable stayed viaduct was built in Port Coquitlam over the train yard, plus its approaches and new connecting intersections, this also opened last year and is called the Coast Meridian Overpass. 

The new 10 lane Port Mann bridge plus the re construction of 13 interchanges along the #1 and the construction of 2 new rapid bus interchanges along the #1 and the addition of 1 to 2 new lanes in each direction along a 35 to 40 km stretch of the #1.

The new SFPR which will be 40 km long and includes the construction of 3 interchanges (but also 5/6 intersections)

A new interchange is being built in Richmond on the 91 with Nelson Road.

The North Fraser Perimeter Road involves several planned road improvement from Maple Ridge to the 91 in New Westminster. The first portion has been openly announced, but designing has not been decided on, which involves the extension of United Boulevard from where it currently ends west to meet with Brunette Avenue via an interchange. Other rumoured aspects of the NFPR include upgrading the Mary Hill bypass into a full freeway and making the #7 full freeway from the Pitt River Bridge to GEW in Maple Ridge. Potential designs for the NFPR is also why the Brunette interchange on the #1 highway project was downsized because there are potential plans to build a much larger interchange beside it in the near future intergrading the NFPR, the #1 and Blue Mountain Road, and therefore much of the traffic that would use the Brunette interchange would use this interchange instead and the proposed Brunette / United Boulevard I mentioned earlier. 

The Patullo Bridge is scheduled to be replaced within the next 5 years, which will also likely include the construction of many new access roads (similar to the GEB). 

A new proposal has been recently released detailing the re-construction of the #1 / Fern Street / Mountain Parkway interchange north of the Second Narrows Bridge.

*Just outside of Vancouver* 

The Sea to Sky Highway, which was built plenty large enough considering its relatively light traffic numbers and the fact that the area it serves is very restricted when it comes to population growth (especially when compared to all the other areas surrounding Vancouver).

Several interchanges in Abbotsford along the #1 have been completely re-built, along with the addition of some new climbing lanes.

The entire #11 in Abbotsford was increased from 2 to 4 lanes (completed 2007 or 2008 I believe)

Several large sections of the #7 between Maple Ridge and Mission have been and are currently being twinned from 2 to 4 lanes.


So that is what I can think of right now off the top of my head.

but then again, this all means nothing to those who will never be satisfied and will continue to complain.

cheers! :cheers:


I would also like to note that most of the people complaining about the roads in BC have yet to actually contribute to this thread via hard facts / diagrams / pictures / movies, all of which I have posted / contributed.


----------



## CptSchmidt

With the recent completion of the Larry Uteck interchange on NS 102 I figure I should get some video and pictures of it up. I'll do that within the next week or so. In the meantime, this is a video of NS 111 from its southern beginning on the Halifax side of the MacKay Bridge to the NS 118 junction at Exit 4, then north on the 118 to its terminus at NS 102 north.


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## Fargo Wolf

Metro One said:


> I would also like to note that most of the people complaining about the roads in BC have yet to actually contribute to this thread via hard facts / diagrams / pictures / movies, all of which I have posted / contributed.


I'm working on it. I do have some routes roughed out on Google Earth I just need to get the screen shots. They show the approximate routes that would provide a FAR more direct route from the coast to the Alberta border. Much of it would be in tunnel.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

As promised, pics. Since I DON'T have a professional program, I had to do it with MS paint. hno: As a result, the pics are on the craptacular side of things. I did my best though. The re-aligning would provide a far more reliable, shorter, as well as safer route to Alberta. Gradients would be substantially reduced, and closures would be virtually eliminated thanks to the tunnels. Making it all motorway is preferred, but even as a 2 lane highway with climbing/passing lanes, it would still far better than the current route now.

Red: This is the "Straight Line" route.

Yellow: Existing highway route to the best of my ability.

Green: Proposed route.

Below, are pics of what I would like to see happen for a route from tidewater, to the BC/AB border. The route is all re-alignments of pre-existing highway. The highways are the Trans Canada and BC 5 (Yellowhead) between Hope and Kamloops.

The first section is Hwy 5:

Overall view:









First re-alignment section. This merely straightens the highway. At this point, the grade would be no more than a 1% climb from here to the summit of the highway at/near the Coquihalla (Coke-a-halla) Pass.









Second re-alignment section. Because the highway would be higher now, the avalanche gallery (Great Bear Snowshed) could be eliminated and replaced with a bridge over the slide path, before the highway enters the second tunnel.









Third re-alignment section. Having crested the summit, the new routing of the highway now begins a gradual decent to Merritt. Again, the gradient would be about 1%.









Fourth re-alignment section. The new route would begin a gradual ascent leaving Merritt Northbound. Again, tunnels (not sure whether one or two would be required) would keep the gradient to a reasonable 1% as it climbs towards a new grade separated interchange for the town of Logan Lake.









Fifth re-alignment section. A new interchange would be required for the road to Logan Lake, as the new highway would enter a tunnel west of the current one. The greatest challenge here, would be routing the new road to avoid an environmentally sensitive area. Again, the gradient is about 1%


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Part Two: Kamloops To the Alberta Border

From the west end of Kamloops, to the Village of Pritchard, the highway would follow the current route before turning due east and entering a series of three tunnels before reaching a point just south of Salmon Arm. The greatest challenges will be avoiding the built up areas and constructing a tunnel under the airport runway, a golf course and mobile home park. East of the mobile home park, the highway enters another tunnel, emerging at a locality known as Mara.









Between Mara and Revelstoke, at least four tunnels would be required (one of which will preserve the view hotel guests currently enjoy). the average gradient would be about 2%. The new route would place the highway on the north side of Three Valley Lake. A new interchange would provide access to the hotel and residences in the area. At Revelstoke, a new grade separated interchange is required to provide access to the community, as well as BC HWY 23 South. A new bridge over the Columbia carries the highway well above Revelstoke









After crossing the new bridge, a new interchange would provide access to Revelstoke from the east, before passing through a short tunnel. The highway then turns up a short side valley before passing through two major tunnels before reaching the City of Golden. The valley between the two tunnels lies within Glacier National Park. As such, a lot of VERY careful planning and construction would be required.









From Golden, the route would pass through at least five tunnels, the last of which would extend into Alberta. Avalanche galleries would also be required owing to the steepness of the mountains. Again, negotiations with the National Parks are required (Banff National Park for sure. Possibly Yoho as well.) as the easternmost portion would require upgradin of existing highway, as well as construction of new highway. Also, given the fact that this section also crosses into Alberta, negotiations would also be required with that government, though that won't be an issue, as they would like to see a much better route constructed.









And that's my dream route. I doubt it will ever happen, given the British Columbia Govt. is scared of having to build tunnels. Also, it's not the Greater Vancouver region, so the Govt. could care less.


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## ssiguy2

I think one of the priorities in the southern interior is to extend the Okanagan Connector to the Coquihala as it was suppose to in the first place. It stopped where it is now due to money but was meant to be build in the future. The only reasons they spent the money to twin it to Merritt is because when it was done years later the NDP Minister of Highways wanted it thru Merritt as he was the MLA from, you guessed it, Merritt, 
Due to the very long incline and then decline from the south into the Merritt and the fact it is 20km out of the was it has had added an estimated 25 minutes to Kelowna from Hope and a staggering 40 minutes by truck. If you have ever been on the road you know the mountain in and out of Merritt from the south is a very steep and long one. Some times the transport trucks slow to a near crawl due to the grade and length of the grade. 
If they would have extended The Connector it would be far more direct and avoid that entire mountain. That mountain is also so high that that is where the most accidents on the highway occur in the winter.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Plans to extend the Connecter to the "Coke" have been abandoned, thanks to the City of Merritt. :mad2: They threatened to sue for damages if the work went ahead. The claim was, was that there would be a substantial drop in traffic. (Like ANYONE would want to be in that s$$thole unless there was no other choice) The Provincial Govt, being the uber cowards that they are, immediately and permanently dropped plans to connect 97C to Hwy 5. Instead, we are stuck with the 4 lane that now exists up a steep hill.

Form Peachland, to Merritt needs to be completely re-built. It was never routed properly.


----------



## sonysnob

^ Playing Devil's advocate. Does putting 3000 people out of business in order to save 20 minutes of travel time serve the common good?

This type of question comes up in Northern Ontario a lot with regards to twinning highways. At what point does the loss of business to a community outweigh the benefits of a higher speed highway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It will be if you consider the cost of traffic safety (or lack thereof) or the cost of a complete new alignment.


----------



## sonysnob

ChrisZwolle said:


> It will be if you consider the cost of traffic safety (or lack thereof) or the cost of a complete new alignment.


That is a pretty glib one line assessment.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

sonysnob said:


> ^ Playing Devil's advocate. Does putting 3000 people out of business in order to save 20 minutes of travel time serve the common good?
> 
> This type of question comes up in Northern Ontario a lot with regards to twinning highways. At what point does the loss of business to a community outweigh the benefits of a higher speed highway.


That's just it. Had the damn thing been built properly, Merritt would have become a bedroom community to West Kelowna (Westbank), as well as Kelowna.



ChrisZwolle said:


> It will be if you consider the cost of traffic safety (or lack thereof) or the cost of a complete new alignment.


Those jobs WERE lost (as in never created) thanks to the current alignment. Our chickens$$t Govt. is to scared to spend money to build a decent motorway, tolled or otherwise.

If either of you are interested, I can do up a map to sho how it should have been done.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

sonysnob said:


> That is a pretty glib one line assessment.


It is. But you have to consider that for every 1 km of new alignment cost, you can also expropriate 20 or 30 buildings. (rural areas, non over-inflated housing prices)


----------



## sonysnob

Fargo Wolf said:


> That's just it. Had the damn thing been built properly, Merritt would have become a bedroom community to West Kelowna (Westbank), as well as Kelowna.
> 
> 
> Those jobs WERE lost (as in never created) thanks to the current alignment. Our chickens$$t Govt. is to scared to spend money to build a decent motorway, tolled or otherwise.
> 
> If either of you are interested, I can do up a map to sho how it should have been done.


I don't think you can argue that. Highway 97C (which I have driven by the way) is a hell of a highway, so are the upgrades at the Port Mann. So at somepoint along the way BC's chicken shit government built a decent highway.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

sonysnob said:


> I don't think you can argue that. Highway 97C (which I have driven by the way) is a hell of a highway, so are the upgrades at the Port Mann. So at somepoint along the way BC's chicken shit government built a decent highway.


But only AFTER the population in the Vancouver region got to where it is now... The project(s) going on down there now, SHOULD have been done 20 years ago. Hell The Alberta Govt was expanding their highways on a large scale at that time. Not only for safety, but for future population increases. Even various Municipalities were planning future routes at that time.


----------



## sonysnob

Fargo Wolf said:


> But only AFTER the population in the Vancouver region got to where it is now... The project(s) going on down there now, SHOULD have been done 20 years ago. Hell The Alberta Govt was expanding their highways on a large scale at that time. Not only for safety, but for future population increases. Even various Municipalities were planning future routes at that time.


Ok, but Alberta is flat. It costs the Alberta Government comparatively nothing to build four lane highways everywhere. Compared to eastern standards, population density is nothing, so land should be pretty cheap. Not to mention the fact that Alberta is swimming with oil, one of the most valuable commodities on the face of the earth.

As a roadgeek I may not like it, but I can see justification for leaving Merrit on the highway system. Merrit is way to far away from Kelowna to be a suburb. Yeah, a freeway to freeway interchange would be better from a traffic perspective, but probably not from the Town of Merrit's perspective. The trouble with Transportation Authorities is that they have to balance providing good transportation service with the other needs of the population of the province.

I will give you this, Highway 1 through Kicking Horse Pass was embarrassing as the route of our national highway -- and it took way to long to upgrade.


----------



## ssiguy2

The impact on Merritt argument doesn't wash. Very little of the traffic bound for 
Kelowna stops there anyway.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

That's the excuse that was used. And it worked, sadly.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The population of California however, is, like British Columbia, along the coast and not in the mountains. In fact I'd say the Californian hinterland (being Nevada and Utah) is even more empty than the BC hinterland (Alberta).


----------



## Plumber73

ChrisZwolle said:


> The population of California however, is, like British Columbia, along the coast and not in the mountains. In fact I'd say the Californian hinterland (being Nevada and Utah) is even more empty than the BC hinterland (Alberta).


Ok. So why the need for an extra wide highway?


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## ChrisZwolle

I don't know, I was just pointing out. I don't know traffic counts on this route...


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Plumber73 said:


> Ok. So why the need for an extra wide highway?


Simple. From Vancouver to Chilliwack, the traffic volume alone is your answer. It really should be widened to eight lanes. to there. Once you're past Chilliwack, the traffic drops off substantially, though it will probably need to be upgraded to four lanes right to Hope. At hope you have a choice of HWY 1, 3 and 5.


----------



## sonysnob

ssiguy2 said:


> The 401 is now 6 lanes from Windsor to Toronto {by end of the year} and will be 6 laned to Belleville with 5.


No its not.

As of this year, the 401 is six lanes between London and Cobourg. There are six lane segments east of Windsor (with a lightly traveled four-lane gap of over 100km between Windsor and London).

There are no firm plans to six lane east of Cobourg.

Further, it should be noted that the width of the 401 across Southern Ontario is directly related to the fact that 5 million people live in the Greater Toronto area.

And, even with the GTA's large population, it only takes a two hour drive north to find two lane trunk highways.


----------



## Plumber73

Fargo Wolf said:


> Simple. From Vancouver to Chilliwack, the traffic volume alone is your answer. It really should be widened to eight lanes. to there. Once you're past Chilliwack, the traffic drops off substantially, though it will probably need to be upgraded to four lanes right to Hope. At hope you have a choice of HWY 1, 3 and 5.


Sorry. I was referring to the mountain highways of rural BC and California. Abbotsford to Chilliwack will be widened in due time. There isn't any gridlock, the traffic moves very quickly.


----------



## dibble zee

Metro-One is an idiot. All he does is compare Vancouver with his love affair that is Japan. Then when stats are brought up contradicting his argument he says "well Japan has a higher population, you can't compare". And then according to the other BC users on here you can't compare us to anywhere else. Not California, not Ontario, nowhere. :bash: The quality and capacity of BC's highways is ranked dead last in the developed world. This has already been proved. And posting a 5 pages worth of annoying diagrams and schematics isn't going to change that.


----------



## Plumber73

dibble zee said:


> Metro-One is an idiot. All he does is compare Vancouver with his love affair that is Japan. Then when stats are brought up contradicting his argument he says "well Japan has a higher population, you can't compare". And then according to the other BC users on here you can't compare us to anywhere else. Not California, not Ontario, nowhere. :bash: The quality and capacity of BC's highways is ranked dead last in the developed world. This has already been proved. And posting a 5 pages worth of annoying diagrams and schematics isn't going to change that.


Where has it been "proved"?


----------



## Metro One

dibble zee said:


> Metro-One is an idiot. All he does is compare Vancouver with his love affair that is Japan. Then when stats are brought up contradicting his argument he says "well Japan has a higher population, you can't compare". And then according to the other BC users on here you can't compare us to anywhere else. Not California, not Ontario, nowhere. :bash: The quality and capacity of BC's highways is ranked dead last in the developed world. This has already been proved. And posting a 5 pages worth of annoying diagrams and schematics isn't going to change that.


:lol:

First of all, I don't appreciate being called an idiot and I am going to report you to a mod for that.

Second of all, please show me these proven documents.

Third, how did I contradict myself by using Japan and other areas (Ontario, California) with high populations displaying the needed population density to be able to fund extensive civil projects? And the fact that even with those densities many areas still only utilize 4 to 5 lanes highways and are often very highly tolled? 

And third, I find it hilarious that you get mad at me for displaying "annoying diagrams and schematics" on a freeway page, especially since these are diagrams and schematics of u/c and proposed BC (Canadian" highway upgrades. What have you supplied to this thread besides your hatred towards jersey barriers?

And I do honestly believe you are the same member who went on a tantrum about jersey barriers on SSP whom I presume has been banned since.


----------



## sonysnob

This kind of reminds me of Radi's Struma comments regarding how the quality of the motorway is directly related to the 'shiny-ness' of its guiderail. It's actually kind of funny.


----------



## Haljackey

dibble zee said:


> Metro-One is an idiot.


Someone needs to take a step back and a deep, relaxing breath. Check the forum rules which as well.

I hope you don't mean that. I can see why you may disagree, but that is uncalled for.


----------



## geogregor

dibble zee said:


> Metro-One is an idiot. All he does is compare Vancouver with his love affair that is Japan. Then when stats are brought up contradicting his argument he says "well Japan has a higher population, you can't compare". And then according to the other BC users on here you can't compare us to anywhere else. Not California, not Ontario, nowhere. :bash: The quality and capacity of BC's highways is ranked dead last in the developed world. This has already been proved. And posting a 5 pages worth of annoying diagrams and schematics isn't going to change that.


If someone is idiot it's you. Metro-One writes quite logical arguments you write total nonsense hno:


----------



## Trilesy

CptSchmidt said:


> With the recent completion of the Larry Uteck interchange on NS 102 I figure I should get some video and pictures of it up. I'll do that within the next week or so. In the meantime, this is a video of NS 111 from its southern beginning on the Halifax side of the MacKay Bridge to the NS 118 junction at Exit 4, then north on the 118 to its terminus at NS 102 north.


Very nice roads around Halifax, and overall that whole area seems to be a very modern urban settlement.


----------



## Sphynx

shadyunltd said:


> Puh-lease. BC has a difficult terrain, but it ain't so much different from Sierra Nevada (which has much higher mountain passes and rugged terrain) or even the American Rockies (higher mountain passes).
> 
> BC's mountain are much shorter than their American counterpart.


It's a little more complicated than that. Most major BC highways are situate in/traverse narrow valleys with rivers/lakes and the highways usually skirt the base of a mountain requiring extensive blasting among other expensive features.

Massive rock cuts, concrete retaining walls, bridges, tunnels, snowsheds, etc. are required in many sections of highway twinning/upgrades.

On the west coast, the S2S highway, for example, also required expensive ($hundreds of millions$) in concrete catchment dams at the upper reaches of the mountainside along with concrete debris flow channels to the creek bottom in order to prevent potential massive debris torrents from wiping out the highway below:










And twinning Hwy 1 in far eastern BC near the Rockies (SADT of 10,000) will cost ~$1 billion for *just* 4 km. Why?

- tunnels
- 6 rock/snow sheds
- 12 viaducts
- retaining walls
- massive rock cuts

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/kickinghors...y_Open_House_100304/Update_Portal-Yoho_Br.pdf

But yeah, BC highways certainly need major further upgrades - tens of $billions$ worth both in Metro areas as well as rural areas for a high standard system.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

So they won't be building the 2 plus km tunnel then (which WAS strongly recommended by consultants AND Highways engineers). hno: Figures.  Not only that, it appears the the avalanche galleries different lengths will result in on side being protected and the other not.


----------



## keber

4 km long double tube tunnel in Europe usually cost between 200-300 M €. Above project is really very expensive.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

The thing is, is that the tunnel would have bypassed the difficult areas in that part of the canyon. The current alignment they now appear to be going with, is just going to cost a lot more over the long run.

The same thing happened with the upgrading of the Sea To Sky Highway. There were some spots where avalanche galleries were strongly recommended, along with about four fairly short tunnels. None were built. Guess what, aside from more passing areas, the STS still has the same problem with rock slides. As you could probably guess, this is going to cost the government over the long term.


----------



## Metro One

^^

I wish they were building the tunnel as well for that stretch of the TCH, but the new plan isn't that bad, it still involves several shorter tunnels through the worst parts (along with several sheds). I will post the schematics when I have time this weekend.

North America just doesn't seem to build tunnels.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Metro One said:


> North America just doesn't seem to build tunnels.


Interesting observation, I always wondered about the lack of tunnels compared to Europe.

Although I must add many European tunnels are nonsense tunnels in a technical sense. Many motorways could've been built without them, especially outside the highest mountain ranges.


----------



## keber

Fargo Wolf said:


> The thing is, is that the tunnel would have bypassed the difficult areas in that part of the canyon. The current alignment they now appear to be going with, is just going to cost a lot more over the long run.


Not only over the long run, already construction of many short but difficult objects is usually more expensive than building long tunnel that bypasses all critical points except if geology is very demanding.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Many of the passes used by the Interstate Highways aren't steep, thus the need for tunnels is greatly reduced. Aside from the construction of I 70 through Glenwood Canyon in the 70s and the Boston Artery Tunnel Project in the late 90s/ early 2000s there were no major projects. The Eisenhower Tunnel was one of the few that were required because of mountainous terrain.

Fast forward to today. There's only two significant projects. The first, is in California on Hwy 101. This twin tube tunnel will bypass the notorious Devils Slide area. The initial plan, was to simply look at upgrading the existing highway, but it was found that that would have very little, if any benefit. The tunnel, though expensive to build, will result in long term savings.

The second, is the replacement of Seattle's Alaska Way Viaduct. Though not on a major highway, this project is expected to improve traffic flow through Seattle, as well as getting rid of a structure that is literally, a hairs breadth away from being condemned.


----------



## Haljackey

Conceptual images of the Windsor-Essex Parkway.





































Video





Website: http://www.weparkway.ca/

The Windsor-Essex Parkway will extend Highway 401 to a new bridge border crossing with the USA, creating a full freeway link in Windsor.

Construction starts later this year. Prep work begun in 2010.


----------



## Metro One

^^
Awesome! Thanks for posting!


----------



## Chris_533976

Having all that grade seperation cobbled together with one roundabout would be a disaster waiting to happen.


----------



## Haljackey

Chris_533976 said:


> Having all that grade seperation cobbled together with one roundabout would be a disaster waiting to happen.


I think traffic volumes there are expected to be low.

------


Very cool interactive map: http://www.weparkway.ca/interactivemap/InteractiveMap.html

It will be the first major highway project in Ontario since the 407 and 416 were completed in the late 1990's.


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## Fargo Wolf

There's several sections that could be covered over, that would create more greenspace. But other than that... Do like.


----------



## sonysnob

The Windsor Essex Parkway looks amazing. I can't wait to see it constructed. It will set the new standard for urban freeways in Ontario.

To me, the highway seems somewhat reminiscent of the central segment of Michigan's Interstate 696. Check this out to see what I mean.


----------



## Haljackey

sonysnob said:


> The Windsor Essex Parkway looks amazing. I can't wait to see it constructed. It will set the new standard for urban freeways in Ontario.
> 
> To me, the highway seems somewhat reminiscent of the central segment of Michigan's Interstate 696. Check this out to see what I mean.


Yeah the Windsor-Essex parkway is a "sunken" highway. You don't see that often in Ontario... the only other highway that I know is sunken is the 409.

Problem with sunken highways is its really difficult to widen/reconstruct them in the future. Looks like their goona get it right with the W-E Parkway... it's well designed and has 6-8 lanes it seems.

It will certainly be a different drive into Windsor. Huron Church Road will never be the same and the E-C Row Expressway will no longer be an isolated freeway.


----------



## sonysnob

Haljackey said:


> Yeah the Windsor-Essex parkway is a "sunken" highway. You don't see that often in Ontario... the only other highway that I know is sunken is the 409.
> 
> Problem with sunken highways is its really difficult to widen/reconstruct them in the future. Looks like their goona get it right with the W-E Parkway... it's well designed and has 6-8 lanes it seems.
> 
> It will certainly be a different drive into Windsor. Huron Church Road will never be the same and the E-C Row Expressway will no longer be an isolated freeway.


A cross-section of six basic lanes should be more than enough for the W-E Parkway. The 401 isn't really all that busy east of Windsor, and could still function at an acceptable level of service if it were four lanes.

The real bottleneck for the new bridge will be the customs operations. I'd bet the customs houses are congested far before the freeway lanes are.

The same is true of the 402 near Sarnia. There is a large project ongoing to four-lane the westbound approach to the Bluewater Bridge. But, it isn't that the 402 itself is congested -- in fact traffic volumes are fairly light for a four lane freeway, however, the customs houses are so overburdened that the queue spills back into Sarnia.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

HA!!! My idea for a route between Revelstoke and the Alberta border get's a shot in the arm. Once AGAIN, HWY 1 is closed due to avalanches.


----------



## sonysnob

*Moving on Down*

Hwy 400/407 interchange at the lowest level.


----------



## NJam101

Haljackey said:


> Yeah the Windsor-Essex parkway is a "sunken" highway. You don't see that often in Ontario... the only other highway that I know is sunken is the 409.
> 
> Problem with sunken highways is its really difficult to widen/reconstruct them in the future. Looks like their goona get it right with the W-E Parkway... it's well designed and has 6-8 lanes it seems.
> 
> It will certainly be a different drive into Windsor. Huron Church Road will never be the same and the E-C Row Expressway will no longer be an isolated freeway.


It's about the time 401 be completed at its westernmost end. I like the idea of sunken highways in cities.

Other sunken highways I can recall from travel in Canada are a portion of Highway 409 in Toronto near the airport and the Décarie Expressway portion of Autoroute 15 in Montreal. Shorter ones I can think of are part of Autoroute 720 in Montreal East of the tunnel and a short section of Autoroute 73 in Quebec City. I know that some freeways are slightly sunken here and there but can't think of any others at the moment. If anybody knows of more in Canada please let us know.


----------



## ssiguy2

I think the Whitemud Freeway in Edmonton is partially sunken.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

It is. From 170th St to The Groat Rd. Bridge. The western part is very shallow, while descending to the bridge it gets deeper.


----------



## Metro One

^^A short stretch of the Upper Levels Highway in North Vancouver is sunken as well.

Anyways, so in regards to this new border access highway in Windsor does this mean the new cross border bridge has been approved as well??


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Yup. The "Cut" Traveled that many times when I lived in N. Van.


----------



## sonysnob

Fargo Wolf said:


> HA!!! My idea for a route between Revelstoke and the Alberta border get's a shot in the arm. Once AGAIN, HWY 1 is closed due to avalanches.


You know, one of the things that I think often gets overlooked when we talk about the failures of our Trans-Canada Highway, is just how beautiful our road is.

I have talked about this before, on other forums, but in the case of Highway 17, across Northern Ontario for example. If they were to build a new freeway on an upgraded alignment, the beauty of the highway could not be maintained.

A few years ago, the MTO looked into by-passing the Montreal River Hill on Highway 17. It can be seen here:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Montreal+River+Harbour,+Ontario,+Canada&aq=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=52.107327,135.263672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Montreal+River+Harbour,+Algoma+District,+Ontario,+Canada&ll=47.239093,-84.611893&spn=0.022028,0.066047&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=47.239505,-84.612927&panoid=9Drn3DCaZm_1d9919ZLzvg&cbp=12,304.14,,0,5

The MTO was met with fierce opposition with their plan because they were by-passing one of the most beautiful sections of road in the province. The Southerly descent from the high shoreline hills onto the Lake Superior is one of the most dramatic vistas that a driver can be treated to.

I have to say, I wouldn't want this by-passed either.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

What you have to remember is, is that my dream alignment serves through traffic, while the current routing is for tourist traffic. The dream alignment also protects wildlife much better, as the route is mostly in tunnel, avalanche gallery or cut (which could be roofed over to create a wildlife overpass).

Through traffic (mostly truck traffic and Greyhound motor-coaches) would use the new route, while tourists would be able to continue to use the existing route, but not have to contend with the vast amount of traffic.


----------



## Haljackey

Canada's national highway system as of 2009:


----------



## sonysnob

*Scarblackastan, Ontario*

Taken this evening, on my way home from work:


----------



## VoltAmps

How do people on here judge their highways? Like what constitutes a good highway in your mind? Amount of lanes? Materials used? Attention to detail?

The highways in BC are severely lacking in the "attention-to-detail" category.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

VoltAmps said:


> The highways in BC are severely lacking in the "attention-to-detail" category.


Depends on where you are. There's a few places around Kamloops that need work, and/or expansion.


----------



## VoltAmps

Fargo Wolf said:


> Depends on where you are. There's a few places around Kamloops that need work, and/or expansion.


There is no attention to detail on BC highways. Not to the degree of highways in the US. I base a lot of my judging of highways on aesthetics. The overall look of a highway which includes the cleanliness of it, the median barriers, the materials used on the road, the shoulders/barriers, signage, the straightness/flatness of the road, the plants/foliage/grass past beyond the shoulders (if there is any). BC fails because they don't put attention into these details


----------



## Elnerico

Metro One said:


> Anyways, here is an update by me regarding the Port Mann Bridge:
> 
> Here are a couple pics I took, they are nothing great, the light was fading too fast on my way home from work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really hard project to photograph because there are very few decent vantage points, especially concerning the cape horn interchange. Many of the ramps are taking shape and are in interesting stages of construction but there is no where to park (safely) and take some pics.


Here's the same shot at night behind my house. Looks kinda ominious, reminds my of the tower of Mordor. I drive by the interchange everyday and there really aren't many safe places to park although I know a few I'd just have to find a little time, I drive by the section of Lougheed with the ramps going up.


----------



## Plumber73

VoltAmps said:


> There is no attention to detail on BC highways. Not to the degree of highways in the US. I base a lot of my judging of highways on aesthetics. The overall look of a highway which includes the cleanliness of it, the median barriers, the materials used on the road, the shoulders/barriers, signage, the straightness/flatness of the road, the plants/foliage/grass past beyond the shoulders (if there is any). BC fails because they don't put attention into these details


All I can say about the flatness of the highways here, at least in the Lower Mainland, is that they tend to run through soft silty ground. And probably over time the ground will sink or lift in places. All this aesthetic stuff... I guess I don't notice or worry about it too much because it doesn't really affect my driving. That, and I've lived with it my whole life. My problem with our highways is anything that slows down the flow of traffic. The super short on/off ramps for instance. Designed with 1950s traffic in mind. I'm hoping our current road projects will address most of this.


----------



## Elnerico

short on/off ramps you say? Quick, you have 30 metres to gain 70km/h and merge!


----------



## Plumber73

Elnerico said:


> short on/off ramps you say? Quick, you have 30 metres to gain 70km/h and merge!


Something a lot of drivers seem to have difficulty with. Check this one out. I drove by this one a couple days ago, and there was a line of cars stopped, waiting for a chance to jump in. This is the type of thing I hate to see.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Boundary Road Interchange. Hasn't changed since it was built in the 60s.


----------



## nerdly_dood

As for the attention to detail - Virginia tends to not bother making the interchanges pretty, we do everything possible to hide them completely with a minimum amount of concrete and as many man-made hills with trees on them as possible. As for pavement quality, well, let's just say it's been better. There's just not enough money anymore, so the highways are deteriorating.


----------



## VoltAmps

nerdly_dood said:


> As for the attention to detail - Virginia tends to not bother making the interchanges pretty, we do everything possible to hide them completely with a minimum amount of concrete and as many man-made hills with trees on them as possible. As for pavement quality, well, let's just say it's been better. There's just not enough money anymore, so the highways are deteriorating.


I was under the impression Virginia is running a budget surplus?


----------



## Fargo Wolf

What is the lack of attention to detail Volt? You can use these pics I posted earlier in the thread. The highway here isn't fancy, but it does the job nicely.



Fargo Wolf said:


> Just doing my bit for Western Canada here. These were taken in Kamloops, while I was out and about. Just three pics of HWY 1/5/97 The 6 lane starts/ends just west of the truck scales and ends about 3.5 KM later at the exit for Columbia St. These were taken from the Pacific Way.
> 
> Looking east:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking west:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Directional sign to the highway. Good shot of the font used:


----------



## Metro One

Plumber73 said:


> Something a lot of drivers seem to have difficulty with. Check this one out. I drove by this one a couple days ago, and there was a line of cars stopped, waiting for a chance to jump in. This is the type of thing I hate to see.


Yeah, I have always hated that on ramp, its actually a yield currently! But the good news, if you look at the Gateway schematics I posted earlier, along with adding a third through lane in both directions in that stretch, they are building a proper merge lane for that on ramp in question.


----------



## sonysnob

These types of things exist everywhere... 

On the Gardiner Expressway in Toronto:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&sour...noid=aL7nh3bYs_A-xPBS_kOfkQ&cbp=12,296.6,,0,5

On the 20 in Montreal:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&sour...noid=c9iD6i2JO5vSJI-mNvBhoQ&cbp=12,31.12,,0,5

Here is a question, in BC who has the right of way at a merge? In Ontario, at a freeway ramp it is a shared responsibility between entering and through traffic.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

In BC, so far as I know,traffic entering the highway/motorway form an entrance ramp, gives way, though, in reality, it's more of a co-operation thing between drivers. Ideally, the driver already on the highway moves one lane over, to allow the driver entering said highway to safely join the flow of traffic.


----------



## Metro One

Hello

I had a brief chance today to take some pics today of the highway 1 project in Coquitlam (Metro-Vancouver).

Currently, the gantry crane putting together the north approach viaduct to the New Port Mann Bridge is directly overhead of the United Boulevard with many segments suspended above the traffic. Let me just say many are rubber necking it today! (Also it is scary looking through my sunroof to the concrete mass hanging above me as I wait to go on Mary Hill).

Here are my pics!














































All pics my own, here in my flickr account:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Cheers


----------



## VoltAmps

Those cement pylons supporting the bridge are already dingy looking... they're stained and gross


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## ChrisZwolle

There are many impressive bridges in that area.


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## sonysnob

Great pics!


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## Fargo Wolf

VoltAmps said:


> Those cement pylons supporting the bridge are already dingy looking... they're stained and gross


Just the time of day they were taken. I'm surprised there's no graffiti on them.

Awesome pics Metro. Can't wait to see more of them.


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## Metro One

You guys are very welcome and I just happen to have taken some more today! 

I was able to take a few more pics of the Cape Horn Interchange (the biggest interchange of the project with numerous elevated structures / ramps and the north end of the bridge viaduct), but I have to say short of an airplane this is one tough project to photograph. I tried sooo many spots north and south of it but it seems everywhere there were houses, trees, shrubs and power lines blocking the lens! (seriously, I could not find one decent break the whole Dawes Hill area, was very tempted to trespass into some peoples yards! :haha: 

Nonetheless, I was able to squeeze out a few photos, not as grande or extensive as I was hoping, but here they are anyways!

A quick snap of the Lougheed Easbound flyover











here is the #1 westbound (CD lane) off ramp tunnel under the #1 to United Boulevard. (at first I thought it was the Lougheed Eastbound underpass but then realized this one is located east of the railroad tracks)











I had to sneak into the work yard for these two (the sun was in the worst spot as well!). These are the westbound highway 1 off ramp elevated structures as the fly over the Mary Hill onramp. 




















And here is the northern elevated structure of the highway 1 westbound off ramp to Lougheed eastbound. (These pics are taken from the thistles located alongside Planet Ice)





























And last but not least, the only tiny unobscured window I could find of the project from the Dawes Hill area.











The largest fly over, the Lougheed Westbound to #1 eastbound only has its supports currently up, so I am looking forward to see that one take shape! (but it is the hardest of the bunch to photograph, haha!)

All pics are my own - Flickr link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Hope you enjoy them

Cheers


----------



## nerdly_dood

VoltAmps said:


> I was under the impression Virginia is running a budget surplus?


As it turns out, that's actually true - the last time I heard a word about the budget was last spring. The state government apparently waited til I was in college and properly insulated from local TV news before they did anything about the budget. http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/19/news/economy/state_budget_surplus/index.htm


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## hkskyline

*YouTube, we ticket, police warn drivers; 2,500 tags issued during cellphone, iPod blitz*
Noel Grzetic and Leslie Ferenc 
24 February 2011
The Toronto Star

Toronto motorists are driving themselves to distraction.

They're paying less attention to the road because they're too busy yakking on cellphones, scanning their iPads, watching videos or checking the latest gossip on Facebook - multitasking as they manoeuvre through dense city traffic.

But law breakers can't stay under the radar forever.

Last week, police launched "Last Call: What ever you have to say can wait" to crack down on distracted driving. Charges jumped 65 per cent compared to a similar seven-day blitz last year. Police handed out more than 2,500 tickets during the campaign which ended Sunday. Last year, 1,556 were issued.

What could be worse?

Talking on the phone is bad enough. "It's like speeding. Everyone does it figuring they won't get caught," said Shwetank Bharati, 30, who's been "hands free" long before the legislation was introduced. His ride is a stick and he couldn't juggle holding a phone and shifting gears at the same time. Texting is a bigger no-no.

"It means you have to take your eyes off everything," he said, adding a friend was involved in an accident last year while answering a text as he drove onto a ramp to Highway 401. He didn't notice traffic had stopped before it was too late and rammed into the car in front of him.

Why are drivers snubbing the law?

"When people don't get caught, they get more brazen," Sgt. Tim Burrows of Toronto Traffic Services said, adding risk-takers figure they won't be spotted and what can it hurt to quickly answer a call. It's a bad habit that can be very dangerous, he cautioned.

Burrows figures there's another reason for the huge increase in charges. Last year's blitz was launched just weeks after the new legislation kicked in and on the heels of a three-month public awareness campaign. That ensured the new rules were fresh in the minds of drivers who were extra careful and compliant, said Burrows.

"It was very difficult to find anyone doing it (using handheld devices) while driving," he recalled of last year's campaign.

Motorists may have let down their guard this year, but police won't, said Burrows, noting more than 1,700 charges were laid in the year since the legislation came into effect. Officers will continue to be vigilant.

Here's what else the blitz yielded:

122 careless driving charges, a 114 per cent increase over last year. Offenders stand to lose six demerit points.

2,226 tickets issued to drivers caught using cellphones, a 67 per cent increase over 2010. The fine is $155.

102 charges - up 21 per cent over 2010 - against drivers nabbed using hand-held entertainment devices such as iPods and other MP3 players.

114 charges against motorists using a laptop, iPad or other display screen visible while driving.


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## Haljackey

Highway 8 widening in Kitchener, Ontario.










(Photo taken by Waterlooinvestor)

When complete, Highway 8 will double from width from 4 to 8 lanes and feature a full T-interchange with Highway 401. (Currently only Highway 401 eastbound is accessible, drivers must exit onto King Street to access Highway 401 westbound.)


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## Haljackey

Was sent this video... crazy how the Canada's entire population can be crammed into one metropolis known as Tokyo.






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCWf9_V5Cz8

I know it isn't exactly on-topic, but if you've got 15 mins to kill, crank it up to 1080p and watch an endless skyline whiz past an endless highway.


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## nerdly_dood

hkskyline said:


> *YouTube, we ticket, police warn drivers*


I saw that and thought they meant that police would start issuing tickets based on bad driving in a Youtube video... :lol:


----------



## VoltAmps

The barriers along the new HWY 1 expansion look worse than these temporary ones in Maryland... Let alone the brand new one. When BC builds any of its highways to the standards of the new ICC give me a call.










Picture taken by Cirrus over at SSP


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## sonysnob

*Highway 401/4 cloverleaf SW of London*

Highway 401 at Highway 4 from the air:


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## Haljackey

^^

Gah I hate that interchange. I use it at least once a month and I often go from WB 401 to SB 4. 

Thanks for a modification in the NE quadrant (lower right in the photograph) I can use the straight off-ramp and turn left at the intersection rather than the loop ramp which is not just extremely tight, but has weaving issues too since it's a cloverleaf. 

Pic of what I mean:









Downright dangerous design, especially for heavy trucks which head south to a Ford assembly plant just down the road and the city of St. Thomas.

I can't wait until they fix this interchange, but I doubt it will happen until the interchange with Wonderland Road is built.


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## ChrisZwolle

Cloverleafs like that are outdated. Nowadays any cloverleaf should have a C/D lane to avoid weaving issues.


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## sonysnob

It is a relic for sure. 

The contracts for the construction of the stretch of Highway 401 between Hwy 4 at London, and Hwy 2 east of Woodstock, were let in 1952. This stretch of highway included six cloverleafs at:
- Highway 4,
- Wellington Road
- (Highbury Avenue and its cloverleaf wasn't built until 1963)
- Highway 73
- Highway 19
- Highway 59
- Highway 2 east of Woodstock

The cloverleaf at Highway 4 is the only cloverleaf interchange listed abouve to have not been reconstructed.


----------



## Haljackey

sonysnob said:


> It is a relic for sure.
> 
> - (Highbury Avenue and its cloverleaf wasn't built until 1963)
> 
> The cloverleaf at Highway 4 is the only cloverleaf interchange listed abouve to have not been reconstructed.


Problem was that the cloverleaf at Highbury Avenue was a full highway-to-highway interchange while the others were just arterials or country roads.

When this cloverleaf had two of it's loop ramps dug up, it was essentially converted to a parclo A-4. This allowed Highway 401 to widen to 6 lanes (the weave lane became a mainline lane) but made Highbury turn into an expressway because traffic lights had to be installed on it at the new intersections.

This killed all hopes for Highbury's design as it was envisioned to become a full freeway. Provincial downloading (Highbury was designated as King's Highway 126) killed this even further.


----------



## Haljackey

Here's a video I took showing the Highway 4/401 interchange last summer.

It's about 30 seconds in. The Highbury interchange that I discussed in my post above is about 2:45 in.






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdYyO8Bzpko

I say just convert it to a diamond for now. That gets rid of the weaving and sharp curves.


----------



## sonysnob

Haljackey said:


> Problem was that the cloverleaf at Highbury Avenue was a full highway-to-highway interchange while the others were just arterials or country roads.
> 
> When this cloverleaf had two of it's loop ramps dug up, it was essentially converted to a parclo A-4. This allowed Highway 401 to widen to 6 lanes (the weave lane became a mainline lane) but made Highbury turn into an expressway because traffic lights had to be installed on it at the new intersections


That was the case for most of the rational for all other cloverleaf conversions between along Highway 401 between London and Woodstock, but not for Highbury. The Highbury bridge is newer than the other bridges at former cloverleaf interchanges and is much longer. So much so that a collector lane could have been constructed which would have allowed a cloverleaf to have remained at Highway 401. The biggest problem with Highbury had more to do with weaving situations on the Highbury Avenue bridge itself. Since Highbury was transferred to the City of London by that time, my guess is they didn't want to pony up the doe for a new overpass.

Take a look at the video you shot and observe how the on-ramp from the loop ramp enters the mainline lanes after the Highbury overpass and you'll see what I mean.



Haljackey said:


> This killed all hopes for Highbury's design as it was envisioned to become a full freeway. Provincial downloading (Highbury was designated as King's Highway 126) killed this even further.


The killing of London's freeway network were really what killed the need for Highbury. Believe it or not, all plans north of the Thames River bridge were always to be constructed by the City of London.

As for Highway 4, it doesn't function too badly as a cloverleaf as of right now. Eventually it will have to change, but from my experience, traffic volumes on the 401 are still low enough that the interchange isn't yet a problem.


----------



## sonysnob

*Highbury Avenue*

One of the facts that i don't think is emphasized enough regarding London's proposed freeway network is just how early it was planned, and construction was started.

Highbury Avenue opened the same year that Highway 403 through Hamilton started, before the completion of Highway 403 through Burlington.

Highbury Avenue was constructed before Ottawa had a freeway, long before K/W got its freeway (1971). Longer still before Windsor got its freeway (1980).

Highbury Avenue got off of the ground really, really early compared to most freeways in similar urban centres across the province.


----------



## Haljackey

sonysnob said:


> Highbury Avenue was constructed before Ottawa had a freeway, long before K/W got its freeway (1971). Longer still before Windsor got its freeway (1980).


Do you have a source for this or any other facts you mentioned about Highbury Avenue? These references would certainly help it's Wikipedia article!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highbury_Avenue


---------------------------------------------------------------------


The Highway 407 extension was finalized yesterday. It will extend the tollway to Highway 35/115 by 2020. However, this section will be tolled by the province, not a private company like the rest of the toll road.

Here's the map. Phase 1 is to be done by 2015, phase 2 by 2020.









The entire extension was planned to be fully complete by 2013, but the Ontario government had to push this project back due to financial problems/deficits. After the 2008 recession, it was announced that the highway would only be built to Simcoe Street by 2017, the rest at a later date. This wasn't good enough for the local governments and residents and they pushed the provincial government to get it done sooner. Eventually, this compromise was reached.


----------



## sonysnob

Haljackey said:


> Do you have a source for this or any other facts you mentioned about Highbury Avenue? These references would certainly help it's Wikipedia article!
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highbury_Avenue


Of course all of the facts are verifyable, I wouldn't just make them up. Western's Library has a good collection of DHO Annual Reports that can verify the completion of Highway 126, and some of the chronological events I got from a book in Toronto published by the MTC in the 80s called "Highway 407 - A NEW WAY TO GO".

Neat find with the map, by the way.


----------



## Haljackey

sonysnob said:


> Of course all of the facts are verifyable, I wouldn't just make them up.


Of course I know you didn't make them up, just wanted to know where you found this info from. I'll have to check Weldon sometime... I practically live there during exam time.

--------------------------------

Here's a neat fictional sign made by a friend of mine noting the start of a collector/express system in London.










The system would start at the Highway 402 junction and end east of the Veterans Memorial Parkway (VMP) interchange. 

Could it happen? Yes, there's enough right of way and several overpasses are aging and due for replacement in the coming years. Will it happen? I doubt it unless traffic volumes significantly increase, the city grows like crazy around the highway and the province has money to burn.

A similar system has been envisioned in Kitchener-Waterloo between Highway 8 and Townline Road.


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## sonysnob

I would love to see more collector lanes built in Ontario, but they won't be coming to Kitchener anytime soon. I've seen the preliminary design for the eventual 10-laning of Highway 401 between Highway 8 and east of Highway 24. No big surprises other than they are realigning the curve just west of the Speed Rive a bit. It's a shame, so much traffic gets on the 401 at Highway 8 only to get off at Highway 24, that stretch of highway would be an excellent candidate.

Some Highway 401 I shot tonight:


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## ChrisZwolle

Awesome pics!


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## Haljackey

ChrisZwolle said:


> Awesome pics!


I concur, nice shots!

Looks like the snow is gone in Toronto. Jealous! :lol:


----------



## hkskyline

Haljackey said:


> The Trans-Canada Highway at Rogers Pass in British Colombia. Truly one of the most magnificent drives in the country.
> 
> 
> Rogers Pass South by bulliver, on Flickr
> 
> Full size: http://www.flickr.com/photos/badcomputer/3719523630/


Reminds me of my drive from Lake Louise to Jasper and back. Lovely part of the country for driving!


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## sonysnob

Haljackey said:


> Also the Don Valley Parkway in Toronto wouldn't be built if it were by today's standards. :


Hamilton built the Red Hill in the last decade, and its really just Hamilton's version of the DVP.

I agree they likely would have put the 401 somewhere else though.


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## sonysnob

*Hwy 407 ETR*

bump


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## Botev1912

blue signs? And concrete pavement


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## ChrisZwolle

What sharp little eyes you've got 

(that's a movie quote)


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## TheCat

Botev1912 said:


> blue signs? And concrete pavement


In Canada (at least Ontario), blue signs are used on tollways (and we happen to only have one tollway in Ontario - the 407) and also on collector (local) lanes of freeways with an express/collector setup (e.g. on the wide sections of Highway 401, the express lanes use green but the collector lanes use blue). This latter use is actually quite useful because the amount of signage on a highway like the 401 can be quite overwhelming and it is useful to have this separation.

As for concrete - it is indeed not very common in Canada (the 427 was the last major non-toll freeway in the Toronto area that had a concrete surface, but was completely covered with asphalt a while ago). The 407 is an exception.


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## Haljackey

sonysnob said:


> bump


Yeah this thread has sort of gone off the radar.

Most of the activity now takes place at Skyscraperpage. I'll link it to you guys: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=190293


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## sonysnob

The Gardiner Expwy approaching Downtown Toronto:










(Though I still think this thread is dead).


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## Penn's Woods

Haljackey said:


> Yeah this thread has sort of gone off the radar.
> 
> Most of the activity now takes place at Skyscraperpage. I'll link it to you guys: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=190293


I'm not sure what the point is of having multiple forums: A person who's trying to keep up but has finite amounts of time...well, it would be more convenient for such a person to have one place to go than half a dozen (although how does one decide which one's the "main" one?).

Just my two cents....


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## VoltAmps

Penn's Woods said:


> I'm not sure what the point is of having multiple forums: A person who's trying to keep up but has finite amounts of time...well, it would be more convenient for such a person to have one place to go than half a dozen (although how does one decide which one's the "main" one?).
> 
> Just my two cents....


Yeah that was not cool of Haljackey to do that. Totally derailed this thread. We're trying to keep highway infrastructure information for each country streamlined and centralized, not spreading it out over a bunch of websites. Plus skyscraperpage is a garbage website anyway. Lots of talk with very little substance.


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## sonysnob

I don't think Hal's intention was to derail this thread, it had been a little bit slow anyways.


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## hkskyline

*Province puts brakes on controversial highway*
Published On Tue Jul 26 2011
Toronto Star









_http://www.niagara-gta.com/index.html_

A highway plan connecting the Niagara peninsula with the GTA, but possibly degrading part of the escarpment, will not proceed as planned.

The proposed 400-series highway, the so-called “asphalt arrow,” would have linked Niagara Falls to Hamilton via Burlington, and connect to highways 401, 403 or 407, providing an alternative to the QEW.

The province said a more focused analysis would be conducted in the future.

“We are not going to just assume we need to pave a mega highway through the escarpment,” said Kelly Baker, a transportation ministry spokesperson.

On Tuesday, Halton Regional chair Gary Carr expressed his pleasure that the Niagara-to-GTA corridor would not go forward.

“Together we have protected the Niagara Escarpment and our natural heritage for future generations to enjoy,” Carr said in a news release.

Proponents argued the highway would encourage job growth in the region. But critics, including community groups, environmentalists, Halton regional council and Burlington city council applauded the decision.


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## ChrisZwolle

Is that really necessary? It seems to me the QEW is not extremely undersized. It's mostly 2x3 lanes with 2x4 around Hamilton.


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## hkskyline

The QEW is quite congested already out of Toronto as it is a major commuter route along the western suburbs. While the 407 extension to the 403 does help alleviate a bit of the commuter traffic, the QEW is still the only major highway link between the country's largest city and the US border at Niagara / Buffalo. With all that traffic (passenger and cargo), I think a certain level of redundancy is needed.


----------



## TheCat

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is that really necessary? It seems to me the QEW is not extremely undersized. It's mostly 2x3 lanes with 2x4 around Hamilton.


So far almost every time I drove on the QEW on a weekend morning/noon, I spent half of my journey not moving at all. As hkskyline said, this is the only highway connecting the GTA to Niagara and the US border, and often it is extremely congested.

I think the 2x4 sections are quite new, however, and may have improved traffic somewhat since the last time I drove there.

My video from a while back shows very typical traffic on the QEW (it was sped up almost 20 times in that section):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQetn185Z9c#t=2m25s


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## ChrisZwolle

That's weird, because 80 000 - 85 000 vehicles per day on six lanes should not be a problem.


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## TheCat

^^ It is especially bad at certain times and at certain locations, although I do not know the AADT statistics (I'm sure you know better than me).

The sections near Mississauga, Burlington, and St. Catharines are often congested.


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## ChrisZwolle

Well, I can understand about the Mississauga - Hamilton sections. But the traffic volumes on the Hamilton - Saint Catharines section are not that high for six lanes. There are instances where twice that amount of traffic is recorded on six lanes.


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## ScraperDude

I have to agree with everyone about QEW from Hamilton to Niagara. Every time I'm on it, it's very congested and sometime travel speeds are well below 90/kmh. What seems to cause some backups is the skyway especially when the high wind warnings are posted. People always slow down to go over it. 
Then there's the section from Burlington to the 427/Gardiner which is a painful stop and go crawl at times and it usually start after I pass Appleby. A fair percentage of the traffic is us Americans en route to T.O. helping to clog it up  
I really wish it had been built with express/collection lanes. There were times I just wanted to avoid it all together and would cross at Windsor instead and 401 it up, which is a nice ride at times passing K-W, Guelph and Milton. Bit hilly and fun to drive.


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## hkskyline

ChrisZwolle said:


> Well, I can understand about the Mississauga - Hamilton sections. But the traffic volumes on the Hamilton - Saint Catharines section are not that high for six lanes. There are instances where twice that amount of traffic is recorded on six lanes.


You also need to consider the possibility of a major accident closing many lanes and severely impacting cargo movements to/from the US.


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## ChrisZwolle

Of course another freeway is better for network redundancy. But a new east-west freeway parallel to QEW would mostly serve rural areas. Welland is already served by the 406 and east-west traffic towards London is now served by the Red Hill Valley Parkway. I think this new freeway will be of very little use, you can't justify a new freeway just for those few times per year the road is blocked for a longer period. Why not widen the existing freeway to 8 lanes instead?


----------



## hkskyline

ChrisZwolle said:


> Of course another freeway is better for network redundancy. But a new east-west freeway parallel to QEW would mostly serve rural areas. Welland is already served by the 406 and east-west traffic towards London is now served by the Red Hill Valley Parkway. I think this new freeway will be of very little use, you can't justify a new freeway just for those few times per year the road is blocked for a longer period. Why not widen the existing freeway to 8 lanes instead?


Technical constraints, especially in St. Catharines where the QEW is bound by the built-up city. The proposed alignment actually is a shorter route to the Fort Erie crossing (Buffalo) while the present QEW alignment is more efficient for Niagara.

The new alignment will help trucks travelling between the GTA and the US, and not so much the rural areas where it passes.


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## go_leafs_go02

Do most trucks go through Buffalo? In my experience (and I grew up in Southern Ontario, and lived in the Niagara Region for about 6 years) the QEW between Niagara Falls and Fort Erie is rather quiet. 

I thought most use the 405 over the Queenston/Lewiston Bridge.


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## Xusein

I used to see lots of trucks on the peace bridge. Taking the 405/I-190 from Lewiston to Buffalo takes longer than simply taking the QEW to Buffalo.

You also have to pay for another toll bridge if you take it.


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## ScraperDude

go_leafs_go02 said:


> Do most trucks go through Buffalo? In my experience (and I grew up in Southern Ontario, and lived in the Niagara Region for about 6 years) the QEW between Niagara Falls and Fort Erie is rather quiet.
> 
> I thought most use the 405 over the Queenston/Lewiston Bridge.



I use Ft. Erie most of the time and the truck traffic is light down that end of QEW and the crossing.


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## hkskyline

Learn more about the border crossings : http://www.cbc.ca/news/interactives/map-us-canada-border/

The Peace Bridge is the country's 3rd busiest crossing for passenger vehicles and trucks.


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## ChrisZwolle

18,900 vehicles per day. That's nothing, in Europe there are border crossings with 70,000 vehicles per day.


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## tonylondon

name it please if true
...................................


----------



## sonysnob

ChrisZwolle said:


> Well, I can understand about the Mississauga - Hamilton sections. But the traffic volumes on the Hamilton - Saint Catharines section are not that high for six lanes. There are instances where twice that amount of traffic is recorded on six lanes.


It is an issue of both high summer volumes (ranging generally between 100,000 and 115,000) between Hamilton and Niagara Falls, and a lot of truck traffic. In my experience the QEW is seldom congested in the Winter, but fairly congested in the Summer. An extra lane per direction could be added at relatively little cost. When the QEW was six laned in the 1990s, the highway was built with eight lanes in mind.


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## VoltAmps

Wow the highway thread over on SSP is an absolute disaster


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## sonysnob

VoltAmps said:


> Wow the highway thread over on SSP is an absolute disaster


Yeah ... the transit v. highway debate is pretty tired.


----------



## Nexis

sonysnob said:


> Yeah ... the transit v. highway debate is pretty tired.


SSp is more serious then SSC , they back things up with facts and other things and demand certain things.... SSC is more relaxed , its also less facts and more photos.


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## sonysnob

I like the photo threads here.

This is a section of Ontario's Old Highway 17 east of Ottawa:


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## VoltAmps

sonysnob said:


> Yeah ... the transit v. highway debate is pretty tired.


Yeah its pretty sad. They can't set aside 1 thread for the actual discussion of highways (specifications, proposals, general discussion, etc.). Just a bunch of transit trolls spewing the same tired lines. And most of the time they're wrong :lol:


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## sonysnob

the Don Valley Parkway from Lawrence:


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## Fargo Wolf

Anything happening on a new crossing between Detroit and Windsor? There has been a advert playing quite frequently on CBC Newsworld and CTV Headline News channels. In the advert, it's claimed that the Michigan Govt has voted down the project, while at the same time, a certain MLA (Dalton McGuinty [spell?] comes to mind) in Ont. is pressing ahead with a "Freeway To Nowhere". Does anyone have any info on the status of the project?


----------



## ScraperDude

All I know is the MTO has a plan to upgrade connectivity from the Ambassador bridge to the 401. Basically get rid of that congested traffic light riddled stretch of Huron Church rd. 

I wish they would extend the 401 to Amherstburg, ON and build a crossing over to Gibraltar or Rockwood, MI to connect to I-75 and skip driving through Detroit and ease congestion at the Bridge/Tunnel crossing there. One can dream.....
Here's the MTOs link for the Detroit-Windsor border improvements

And heres a link to the Windsor area improvements


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## sonysnob

I think its a complicated issue. From Michigan's perspective, MDOT just spent a ton of money on their gateway project which links the Ambassador bridge directly to both I-75 and I-96. Now the Ambassador Bridge Company hasn't fulfilled their end of the deal, and I suspect that they are generally pretty bad corporate citizens. However, I can appreciate Michigan's reluctance to build another approach freeway and systems interchange.


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## VoltAmps

Fargo Wolf the commercials you're talking about are a bunch of misinformation from the Ambassador Bridge Company. They set up shop in Canada now aswell and have been funding these commercials calling out the Premier of Ontario and his "highway to nowhere".

The next step for the bridge is a vote proposed by Governor Rich Snyder in the fall by the Michigan legislature. Until then its all speculation but I gaurantee the bill will pass. When you see the province of Ontario already going ahead with the Windsor Essex parkway, its pretty obvious they mean business and this deal WILL get done.

Until the vote this fall all we can do is watch construction of the WE Parkway (ontario residents get down there and start snapping pictures!). 

In the very unlikely event the bill doesn't pass though Lt. Governor Brian Calley has said there are 12 different ways of doing the bridge, so regardless of the outcome this thing will get done. They path they're taking now is their most desired though, so lets hope the bill passes


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## Fargo Wolf

I figured as much Volt. Just thought I'd get a bit of a confirmation on them.


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## hkskyline

Fargo Wolf said:


> Anything happening on a new crossing between Detroit and Windsor? There has been a advert playing quite frequently on CBC Newsworld and CTV Headline News channels. In the advert, it's claimed that the Michigan Govt has voted down the project, while at the same time, a certain MLA (Dalton McGuinty [spell?] comes to mind) in Ont. is pressing ahead with a "Freeway To Nowhere". Does anyone have any info on the status of the project?


Here's the thread about that project : 
U.S., Canada to build new Detroit-Windsor bridge: Report


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## sonysnob

Parkway is road to the future: MPP

Dignitaries take part in a groundbreaking for the Windsor-Essex Parkway on Howard Avenue in Windsor on Thursday, August 18, 2011.

Read more: http://www.windsorstar.com/business/Parkway+road+future/5273120/story.html#ixzz1VPZaqQOO


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## essendon bombers

The power of a highway on a city...

This article appeared in the Melbourne Age today, but did Vancouver really lose its top livability status over a road...


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MELBOURNE has leapfrogged Vancouver to regain its title as the world's most ''liveable'' city, almost a decade after it last held the crown.

But in what may come as a shock to a citizenry that prides itself on its artistic offerings, Melbourne's culture was rated as only ''tolerable'', whereas our transport infrastructure, education and healthcare were all rated as ''acceptable''- the highest rating.

In a ranking of 140 cities around the world, Melbourne came first with a near-perfect ranking of 97.5. Sydney came in sixth, while Perth and Adelaide came joint eighth

*A minuscule fall in Vancouver's infrastructure score - caused by the intermittent closure of the key Malahat Highway - made it slip to third place with a rating of 97.3*, a whisker behind Vienna, in second place with 97.4.

An ecstatic lord mayor Robert Doyle - who declared himself ''leader of the world's most liveable city'' and donned full ceremonial robes to mark the occasion - said Melbourne was ''vibrant and living and edgy and cool and urbane'', and this was no accident.

''We don't have a beautiful harbour or an Opera House, we don't have a big rock, a big banana or big prawn, so we have focused on the things that make us liveable - our festivals and laneways,'' Mr Doyle said.

The biannual ranking of ''liveability'', undertaken by The Economist magazine's Intelligence Unit, assesses which cities around the world provide the best or worst living conditions.

Survey editor Jon Copestake said low population density and relatively low crime rates meant Australian cities remained high in the rankings.

''Despite the rising cost of living driven by the strong Australian dollar, these cities offer a range of factors to make them highly attractive,'' he said.

In contrast to the strong performance of Australian cities, political unrest and the euro zone crisis caused a dip in European liveability measures, including that of Greece, which dipped 2.5 per cent.

''Arab Spring'' countries might improve their liveability results but possible gains in living standards are yet to materialise, with Libya's war-torn capital Tripoli in the bottom 10 for the first time.

Zimbabwe's capital Harare languished at the bottom of the ranking table, with its public transport, petty crime and healthcare described as ''intolerable''.

Also in the bottom 10 were Dhaka, Port Moresby, Tehran and Lagos.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

essendon bombers;83360708a said:


> *A minuscule fall in Vancouver's infrastructure score - caused by the intermittent closure of the key Malahat Highway - made it slip to third place with a rating of 97.3*, a whisker behind Vienna, in second place with 97.4.


There's been considerable controversy over this statement, as the Malahat Highway is *NOT* in the City of Vancouver, but on Vancouver *ISLAND*. The fellow who handed out the ranking made a futile attempt to justify the inclusion of the highway, but only made himself look like an idiot.

The highway is notorious for it's winding nature, as well as the high number of crashes, both fatal and serious injury, over the years. While upgrades have taken place, including four laning and concrete barrier, the highway still demands the utmost respect.


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## essendon bombers

That sounds a bit harsh on Vancouver...the city doesn't really deserve to lose that status over a road that it has taken steps to improve.


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## ChrisZwolle

Such rankings are ridiculous anyway. They only compare world cities, but on a national or regional level, the "most livable" cities are often affluent suburbs.


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## ed110220

ChrisZwolle said:


> Such rankings are ridiculous anyway. They only compare world cities, but on a national or regional level, the "most livable" cities are often affluent suburbs.


The whole concept is ridiculous because it is so subjective. How do you compare the value of completely different things like transport and culture? One person would rather live somewhere where they can afford a house with a garden, where they can drive easily to work etc and not give two hoots about metropolitan type culture, while another would be happy with a small flat and being crammed into an underground train in exchange for "culture".

This reminds me of some stupid ranked list of best cities in the world to visit a few years ago that ranked Kabul one place above Bath, England.


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## Haljackey

Here's a video I made of Highway 402 and the Bluewater Bridge in Sarnia, Ontario. The grass median in the middle of the freeway is now completely gone.







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxJsKZIdCO8


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## zivan56

Vancouver roads and highways are a complete joke. It should be closer to zero with permanent traffic jams and taking forever to get anywhere. BC highways are trecherous with grades/curves/road surfaces that would be unacceptable in most parts of the world.


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## VoltAmps

Wow how pathetic is skyscraperpage? The last 2 pages of their highway" thread is just bickering over what constitutes a town in terms of population. What an absolute joke of a website.


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## ChrisZwolle

Well, this is Skyscrapercity. But off-topic discussions happen everywhere.


----------



## sonysnob

Driving west through the Nation's Capital at Night:






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMrGh3u2qE8


----------



## Fargo Wolf

zivan56 said:


> Vancouver roads and highways are a complete joke. It should be closer to zero with permanent traffic jams and taking forever to get anywhere. BC highways are trecherous with grades/curves/road surfaces that would be unacceptable in most parts of the world.


For the Vancouver/Burnaby/New Westminster/Surrey/Coquitlam/Port Coquitlam/North Vancouver and West Vancouver region, what did you expect for traffic. It's just a matter of finding alternate routes and knowing WHERE the traffic drops off. I used to live in N. Vancouver (I really miss my apartment there.  North Van beats Kamloops hands down. ) and quickly learned to avoid travel in rush hour if it could be avoided IF I needed to drive. Otherwise, I made like the Dutch and pedaled, irregardless of weather. If I knew where you lived in Vancouver, maybe I could help you out in avoiding the worst of the traffic.

As for the rest of the Province, you'd have to give examples of Sub-standard grades/curves. I know that "Snowshed Hill" on the Coq is one grade that is steeper than posted. (About 12% instead of the posted 8%)


----------



## zivan56

Fargo Wolf said:


> For the Vancouver/Burnaby/New Westminster/Surrey/Coquitlam/Port Coquitlam/North Vancouver and West Vancouver region, what did you expect for traffic. It's just a matter of finding alternate routes and knowing WHERE the traffic drops off. I used to live in N. Vancouver (I really miss my apartment there.  North Van beats Kamloops hands down. ) and quickly learned to avoid travel in rush hour if it could be avoided IF I needed to drive. Otherwise, I made like the Dutch and pedaled, irregardless of weather. If I knew where you lived in Vancouver, maybe I could help you out in avoiding the worst of the traffic.



I walk to work, so its not a problem for me. If I were to have to drive, I would make sure to live in the suburbs and work in the suburbs.
I only drive during off-peak hours, and it is still horrible. I know plenty of shortcuts; however, you need to eventually get onto a main road to go anywhere further.
Most people don't chose their working hours, its 9-5.


As for the rest of the Province, you'd have to give examples of Sub-standard grades/curves. I know that "Snowshed Hill" on the Coq is one grade that is steeper than posted. (About 12% instead of the posted 8%)[/QUOTE]


Off the top of my head?
1. Whole Coquihalla (improper road surface sinks and causes hydroplaning when wet, really steep grades)
2. Highway 99 near Lilloet (steep grades, curves, suddenly switches to gravel in random sections)
3. Highway 1 Eastbound after Golden (can't go over 30 on the main highway due to curves and steep section)
4. Highway 1 at Kamloops is very steep.
I can imagine what surprises smaller roads hold if major highways can't be properly maintained/built.

Compare this with Calgary, where I ended up being "stuck" in rush hour. Basically lost about 6 minutes (going 60 instead of 110) for a short while.
The road to nowhere that I took (from Calgary to Drumheller) was freshly paved in most sections and had an almost perfect road surface.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Hwy 5 (Coquihalla Hwy): I travel the section of the "Coke" between Kamloops and Merritt on a weekly basis and don't find it too bad. There is a spot just after the Logan Lake interchange that needs to be repaved (about 200m total). From the Helmer Lake interchange to the commercial vehicle brake check just north of Merritt has recently been re-paved in both directions. The pavement is worn, but still in decent repair.

From Merritt to hope, I don't really know as haven't traveled that section recently, beyond the imfamous "Snowshed Hill", which is about 12% and not the 8% as posted. The curve is also cambered the wrong way, leading to truck rollovers.

Hwy 99: The section of 99 you mention was originally constructed as a logging road (long before laws prohibited logging roads from crossing between watersheds). Over the years, it was upgraded to the current highway it is now. Today, it's still slowly being upgraded, with the one lane bridges being replaced, much to my disappointment.  Yes, the grades are steep, but the only solution, would be to either completely re-route the highway, or build extensive tunnels. both are cost prohibitive for a route with such low traffic volumes.

Hwy [email protected]: The section of highway is currently undergoing massive reconstruction to eliminate the winding "Goat Trail" ( as it's called by locals and truckers). When complete, the route will be 4 lanes with an 80 km/h limit. Routing of part of the project has been narrowed down to two choices. A 3 to 3.5 km long tunnel, or a route along the mountain, that has bridges and avalanche galleries.

Hwy 1 @Kamloops: I think it is a bit steep. 9% over the maximum allowable 8%, but am not certain. It was built in the 60s as a bypass and was originally undivided 4 lane. I find that congestion is more of an issue, than the grade.


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## Fargo Wolf

Here's the link to the Kicking Horse Canyon Project Zivan:

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/kickinghorse/index.htm

Alberta can hardly compare to BC. They have room to expand capacity on their highways and geography isn't so much of an issue either, which makes for much lower construction costs. BC is a challenge due to geography, which makes expanding highway capacity an issue. BC HWY 5 from Heffely Creek to Barrierre needs to be 4 laned, but highly doubt that will happen due to terrain, let alone cost.

As for the smaller (local) roads, it depends on where you are. Some are in great shape, while others are the complete opposite. The Forest Service needs to put a lot more money into their road network. Gravel roads in Siberia are in better shape.


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## Satyricon84

Dempster Highway


















Dempster Highway from Goldensides








































































ferry over the Peel River



























Mackenzie River ferry


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## Penn's Woods

^^Nice! Did you make that trip yourself?


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## Satyricon84

Unfortunately no  but I will one day...sceneries in North America are the most beautiful on Earth, imho.


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## ChrisZwolle

401 again

Freeway Overload by jczart, on Flickr


----------



## Haljackey

I see lots of concrete medians on the outside but not the inside.

Maybe because it blocks the driver's field of vision? There's lots of curves on the road and being able to see across all the lanes might be a big asset.

Still it's weird to see a double-yellow line road with those lines so far apart. Usually when that occurs there's something between them.


----------



## kev_427

Fargo Wolf said:


> Actually, the construction of the Coquihalla Hwy, was the biggest rock moving project in BC history. 5 million cubic meters of rock was blasted during construction.


You're probably right about that. Not sure where I got my information.


----------



## kev_427

Yeah, it's not a freeway, just an expressway. Don't see a need for a freeway at the moment.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Haljackey said:


> I see lots of concrete medians on the outside but not the inside.
> 
> Maybe because it blocks the driver's field of vision? There's lots of curves on the road and being able to see across all the lanes might be a big asset.
> 
> Still it's weird to see a double-yellow line road with those lines so far apart. Usually when that occurs there's something between them.


The traffic levels don't warrant no-post in between the center lines yet. With the lines that far apart, it will be easy to install it if it becomes required.



kev_427 said:


> Yeah, it's not a freeway, just an expressway. Don't see a need for a freeway at the moment.


We don't have expressways in BC. That's just a 4 lane highway. Posted limit is 90 km/h.


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## kev_427

Fargo Wolf said:


> We don't have expressways in BC. That's just a 4 lane highway. Posted limit is 90 km/h.


Wrong. it's a 4-lane undivided carriageway with level crossings.


----------



## Nima-Farid

ChrisZwolle said:


> What's the meaning of that upper sign with the black dot? No stopping or something?


Yeah Funny american standard!!:bash:


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## sonysnob

bump.


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## Penn's Woods

^^I thought the Gardiner was part of Hy. 2?


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## sonysnob

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^I thought the Gardiner was part of Hy. 2?


It used to be, yes, but that sign really is an error. There is no longer a Hwy 2 through Toronto, and when there was it followed the Gardiner.


----------



## niko.athens.greece

Plumber73 said:


> Screw driving across Canada. Buy a plane ticket!


no....just take Interstate 90! It is much quicker and a more to see. You'll be in Ontario much quicker than taking the TCH.


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## niko.athens.greece

Totally agree with you ! The terrain is just an easy way out ! Europe also has rugged terrain. Switzerland, France, Italy, Austria to name but a few have very rugged mountainous areas yet they have been able to navigate freeways through these regions, building bridges in places where it was thought to be impossible, at elevations which scare the heck out of me just thinking of the height ! And tunnels through these mountainous areas that measure not in feet or meters but in 
kilometers [or miles if you like] BC has always wimped out when it came to building a proper highway system.


shadyunltd said:


> Puh-lease. BC has a difficult terrain, but it ain't so much different from Sierra Nevada (which has much higher mountain passes and rugged terrain) or even the American Rockies (higher mountain passes).
> 
> BC's mountain are much shorter than their American counterpart.


----------



## Haljackey

Recorded a timelapse winter drive on Highway 401 yesterday, from the 403 to the 402.






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw3Nq6R0raE&hd=1

Even though we're well into January, Southwest Ontario has very little snow, and what we do have is expected to melt over the next few days. It's the most pathetic winter I've ever experienced in all my life.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Huge pothole (sinkhole sounds better) in Saskatoon.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

niko.athens.greece said:


> no....just take Interstate 90! It is much quicker and a more to see. You'll be in Ontario much quicker than taking the TCH.


That's what I was thinking too.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Huge pothole (sinkhole sounds better) in Saskatoon.


I'd say that's a great candidate for the annual "Worst Pothole" contest they have there.


----------



## Suburbanist

niko.athens.greece said:


> no....just take Interstate 90! It is much quicker and a more to see. You'll be in Ontario much quicker than taking the TCH.


lol... piggybacking on US highways hno:

Now, seriously, Canada needs a plant to convert all TCH to highway standards.

When US built I-8 to Yuma, I-80 through Nevada or I-10 in Arizona many though they were completely useless and wouldn't have any traffic for 100 years... look at what cities along these routes have become compared to other cities no on the highways...

With a world-class freeway from Vancouver to Prince Edward Island, many areas in Alberta, Mantioba and Ontario could experience more development over time. Especially if they improve snow-clearing to Swiss standards, build some covered sectors, snow basins etc.

While this doesn't happen, Canada should at least:

- link I-15 terminus with Calgary and I-29 terminus with Winnipeg with a highway 
- link Regina and Saskatoon with a highway
- upgrade Route 1 between Calgary and Vancouver through the mountains to highway standards, including some serious tunneling


----------



## AUchamps

Suburbanist said:


> lol... piggybacking on US highways hno:
> 
> Now, seriously, Canada needs a plant to convert all TCH to highway standards.
> 
> When US built I-8 to Yuma, I-80 through Nevada or I-10 in Arizona many though they were completely useless and wouldn't have any traffic for 100 years... look at what cities along these routes have become compared to other cities no on the highways...
> 
> With a world-class freeway from Vancouver to Prince Edward Island, many areas in Alberta, Mantioba and Ontario could experience more development over time. Especially if they improve snow-clearing to Swiss standards, build some covered sectors, snow basins etc.
> 
> While this doesn't happen, Canada should at least:
> 
> - link I-15 terminus with Calgary and I-29 terminus with Winnipeg with a highway
> - link Regina and Saskatoon with a highway
> - upgrade Route 1 between Calgary and Vancouver through the mountains to highway standards, including some serious tunneling


Here's the thing. In the USA, roads are Federal, State, and Local. In Canada, roads are Provincial and Local. So you see, it's much more difficult to standardize the roads.


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## ChrisZwolle

Most major routes in the Prairie Provinces are four-lane highways with very few traffic lights. They basically function as at-grade freeways and traffic volumes are too low to warrant an upgrade to a full freeway. Most of the Trans-Canada Highway carries only about 5,000 vehicles per day outside the urban areas. The main problem is Ontario, where a large portion of the TCH has only two lanes.


----------



## diablo234

ChrisZwolle said:


> Most major routes in the Prairie Provinces are four-lane highways with very few traffic lights. They basically function as at-grade freeways and traffic volumes are too low to warrant an upgrade to a full freeway. Most of the Trans-Canada Highway carries only about 5,000 vehicles per day outside the urban areas. The main problem is Ontario, where a large portion of the TCH has only two lanes.


In Ontario/Quebec however the TCH splits up into many different routes. The main problem seems to be around Thunder Bay and between Kenora and the Manitoba border where all east-west traffic is forced into that two-lane stretch with no alternatives available.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Most major routes in the Prairie Provinces are four-lane highways with very few traffic lights. They basically function as at-grade freeways and traffic volumes are too low to warrant an upgrade to a full freeway. Most of the Trans-Canada Highway carries only about 5,000 vehicles per day outside the urban areas. The main problem is Ontario, where a large portion of the TCH has only two lanes.


Considering how fast economies and populations of Alberta and BC are growing they should start thinking about continuous freeway from Vancouver to Calgary.
It is of course challenging project but in Alpine countries roads are build across difficult terrain for years now. 
Come on guys, get some Swiss or Austrian engineering firms and let's go.


----------



## hkskyline

geogregor said:


> Considering how fast economies and populations of Alberta and BC are growing they should start thinking about continuous freeway from Vancouver to Calgary.
> It is of course challenging project but in Alpine countries roads are build across difficult terrain for years now.
> Come on guys, get some Swiss or Austrian engineering firms and let's go.


I doubt there's enough density to warrant investing so much money tunnelling through the Rockies!


----------



## geogregor

hkskyline said:


> I doubt there's enough density to warrant investing so much money tunnelling through the Rockies!


But it is major corridor between two of the fastest growing cities in Canada. Some of Swiss or Italian valleys don't have density either but it is all about transit.
Looking at the map it looks like more than half of the corridor is already freeway standard. Logically the rest should be upgraded too.
What is the point of freeway from Calgary to Lake Louise if you then dump all the traffic into the narrow mountain road?


----------



## hkskyline

geogregor said:


> But it is major corridor between two of the fastest growing cities in Canada. Some of Swiss or Italian valleys don't have density either but it is all about transit.
> Looking at the map it looks like more than half of the corridor is already freeway standard. Logically the rest should be upgraded too.
> What is the point of freeway from Calgary to Lake Louise if you then dump all the traffic into the narrow mountain road?


But there is plenty of other traffic from neighbouring countries going through Switzerland into Italy. France and Germany not that far away after all.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are only 5,000 - 2,500 vehicles per day between Kamloops and the border with Alberta. That hardly justifies long tunnels. Most major connections in the Alps carry 15,000 - 25,000 vehicles per day. Money like that is better spent in the Vancouver metropolitan area and its appalling road network.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> There are only 5,000 - 2,500 vehicles per day between Kamloops and the border with Alberta. That hardly justifies long tunnels. Most major connections in the Alps carry 15,000 - 25,000 vehicles per day. Money like that is better spent in the Vancouver metropolitan area and its appalling road network.


Less than 5000 vehicles a day? Wow that's much lower than I expected. It seems like BC and Alberta are much less integrated than I though. Isn't there much trade going on between them? How good are delivered to booming Alberta from the Vancouver area harbours?


----------



## hkskyline

geogregor said:


> Less than 5000 vehicles a day? Wow that's much lower than I expected. It seems like BC and Alberta are much less integrated than I though. Isn't there much trade going on between them? How good are delivered to booming Alberta from the Vancouver area harbours?


My guess is rail. I don't think it's feasible for trucks to ship all the grains from the Prairies to the coast.


----------



## geogregor

hkskyline said:


> My guess is rail. I don't think it's feasible for trucks to ship all the grains from the Prairies to the coast.


Obviously not grain, but how about all the consumer goods from Asia which rich Alberta is buying?


----------



## hkskyline

geogregor said:


> Obviously not grain, but how about all the consumer goods from Asia which rich Alberta is buying?


I'm not at all surprised if it's also transported by rail, since the containers of consumer goods coming in from Asia can easily fit into a long train that drops off cargo as it heads east.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

geogregor said:


> Considering how fast economies and populations of Alberta and BC are growing they should start thinking about continuous freeway from Vancouver to Calgary.
> It is of course challenging project but in Alpine countries roads are build across difficult terrain for years now.
> Come on guys, get some Swiss or Austrian engineering firms and let's go.


They are working on it, though it won't be all freeway (motorway). Currently, the freeway runs from the ferry terminal at Horseshoe Bay and ends in Kamloops at the interchange of HWY 1 (Trans Canada) and HWY 5 (Yellowhead). East of this, the highway is mostly divided, but not freeway, with the exceptions of a few very short stretches. The divided highway currently ends at the interchange of HWY 1 and BC HWY 97 South. However, 4 laning (non-freeway) is currently being undertaken from here to Pritchard and eventually on to Chase. Other works are being carried out both east and west of Golden, as well as west of the Icefeilds Parkway. I'll try to get the links up shortly.


ChrisZwolle said:


> There are only 5,000 - 2,500 vehicles per day between Kamloops and the border with Alberta. That hardly justifies long tunnels. Most major connections in the Alps carry 15,000 - 25,000 vehicles per day. Money like that is better spent in the Vancouver metropolitan area and its appalling road network.





geogregor said:


> Less than 5000 vehicles a day? Wow that's much lower than I expected. It seems like BC and Alberta are much less integrated than I though. Isn't there much trade going on between them? How good are delivered to booming Alberta from the Vancouver area harbours?


That's not quite true. There is more than that, though at this time of year, not by much. The volume really picks up in the summer when the tourists hit the road in hordes.


----------



## sonysnob

This is the story of my life:


----------



## diablo234




----------



## kev_427

Too bad the 2010 Olympics weren't in Revelstoke or Golden. It would be 4 lanes all the way to Vancouver.


----------



## diablo234

kev_427 said:


> Too bad the 2010 Olympics weren't in Revelstoke or Golden. It would be 4 lanes all the way to Vancouver.


However the Sea to Sky Highway despirately needed those upgrades though even if the Olympics did not take place because of a high number of fatalities and head on collisions on the roadway.


----------



## trainrover

That's nonsense; you're merely referring to its multitude of daft drivers ... (scarring!!! :uh highway expansion to soothe inept motorists fft:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Actually highway improvement has been proven to be by far the most effective way of reducing traffic fatalities. Specifically divided and grade-separated highways (freeways) are multiple times safer than two-lane roads, undivided 4-lane highways (poor-boy highways) or urban multi-lane arterials. 

You don't get safer roads by demanding people should just be more careful.


----------



## diablo234

Case in point.



> Highway 99, the sole direct road between the Olympic host communities, is a route of many names. On its signs, it is the Sea-to-Sky Highway. In the past, many British Columbians called it the death highway. And its propensity to be blocked by massive rockslides leads some to call it the Sea-to-Slide
> 
> Narrow, hilly and riddled with sharp curves, the transportation backbone of the Vancouver Games was this province’s ultimate white-knuckle drive. On a recent trip up the Sea-to-Sky, Rob Ahola, the engineer who supervised its pre-Olympic makeover, agreed that the road deserved its reputation.
> 
> “It had a very high accident rate,” he said. “But the severity of the crashes was also exceptional.”
> 
> From 1998 to 2004, when the rebuilding began, the Sea-to-Sky averaged 574 accidents a year, about 300 more a year than comparable highways in the province. During the same period, about eight people were killed each year.
> 
> A Canadian government study found 123 reports of the highway being blocked by rockslides, flooding or snow avalanches since its opening in 1958. A 13-day blockage in 1990 ultimately forced an evacuation of stranded tourists from Whistler by ship and helicopter. Cars have been crushed by boulders and, on at least two occasions, have plunged into the sea.
> 
> ....
> 
> *New York Times: Olympic Thrill Ride, Mostly on 4 Wheels *





> There has been a dramatic drop in the number of crashes on the Sea-to-Sky Highway since the twisting mountain route was upgraded for the Olympics last year, according to the Ministry of Transportation
> 
> For years, fatal head-on-crashes and long closures were tragically common along the 125-kilometer section of Highway 99 that links Vancouver with Whistler. Between 1998 and 2007 63 people died on the Sea-to-Sky Highway.
> 
> But according to figures released on Friday there were 73 crashes in 2010 — a drop of 66 per cent from the average of 215 each year in the previous decade.
> 
> The ministry says it wants three years of statistics before determining just how much more safe the Sea-to-Sky Highway is to drive.
> 
> But Whistler Councillor Chris Quinlan says the numbers should answer critics who believed spending $600 million to build barriers, widen and straighten the highway wouldn't make it any safer.
> 
> "Well [people said] if they make it faster, people will just drive faster and there will be more accidents, but that hasn't happened, because the enforcement's been there, and it's just a much safer highway," he said.
> 
> .....
> 
> *CBC News: Sea-to-Sky Highway crashes drop 66%*


----------



## trainrover

*Real* wildlife over superficial breed is more the "case" hno:


----------



## Marcel250

The 25 bridge is now opened. Its a 6 lanes bridge and a lenght of 3/4 mile


----------



## geogregor

^^
Where is it?


----------



## AUchamps

geogregor said:


> ^^
> Where is it?


Montreal, hell yeah!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's the A25 bridge which opened in May 2011:

route @ Google Maps

Nice to see some Québec


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> I've read on Tollroadsnews.com they are considering a toll road along Highway 63 from Edmonton to the remote Fort McMurray, which is the center of the Athabasca Oil Sands Region. However, on Wikipedia you can read the government of Alberta wants to twin the existing highway to four lanes the entire way, but apparently this is not progressing well.
> 
> Does anyone knows more about this project? Are they considering tolls to speed up the widening project? I don't think a toll road would be very profitable due to the relatively low traffic volumes involved, but I don't know about the Alberta financing practices. For instance in the Netherlands it's been proposed to construct several new freeways which are partially tax-funded, partially toll-funded. I don't know whether the Canadian approach is similar, or if they want an all-toll or all-tax financed road.
> 
> Alberta Highway 63:


With all the heavy truck traffic they could toll it for HGVs. With all the tar sands money I'm sure they can afford paying a bit for using infrastructure provided by the province.


----------



## sonysnob

geogregor said:


> With all the heavy truck traffic they could toll it for HGVs. With all the tar sands money I'm sure they can afford paying a bit for using infrastructure provided by the province.


Alberta commonly uses partnerships between the provincial government and private companies to build new highways, but tolling would be a big departure for them.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Tolls are an unknown concept in the prairie provinces as far as I know.


----------



## VoltAmps

Why do you say the Highway 63 twinning is not progressing well. The whole thing is getting fast tracked by the government. Also there is no talk of tolling. They plan to have 100km of the 240km highway twinned by 2015. Theres lots of muskeg though, which makes grading difficult


----------



## FlyBoy88

geogregor said:


> Where can I find some informations about the Autoroute 30 southern bypass of Montreal which is currently under construction?
> On this site: http://www.autoroute30.qc.ca/en/a30-objectifs.asp there are some pictures, maps and informations.
> 
> Among other things they mention two substantial bridges but I can't find any pictures or drawings.
> 
> Anyone knows more about design of these bridges? Pictures of construction would be great.


Here's the project's website. The are some decent pictures, but somewhat outdated (about 2 months old):

http://www.na30.ca/ProjectOverview/Work-Site-Pictures.aspx?lang=en-CA

Most of this project (42 km from Chateauguay to Vaudreuil) is a PPP. Government of Quebec only built the short section linking the old end of the 30 near Candiac with the isolated Kanawake bypass, which opened in November 2010. After that, the project was left entirely in the hands of Nouvelle Autoroute 30, the private consortium responsible for designing, building and maintaining the rest. Opening is scheduled for December 2012. They claim to be on schedule, and I tend to believe it, given what I saw from the plane while taking off from YUL last weekend. Bridges are pretty much complete, so is the A20/A30/A540 interchange. Nothing spectacular about the bridges; pretty much like the Champlain, with lots of pillars and not very high (except for the part across the St-Lawrence Seaway which is slightly elevated to allow for the passage of ships). Hope this helps. Maybe on the weekend I'll go take some picture of the construction...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

VoltAmps said:


> Why do you say the Highway 63 twinning is not progressing well. The whole thing is getting fast tracked by the government. Also there is no talk of tolling. They plan to have 100km of the 240km highway twinned by 2015. Theres lots of muskeg though, which makes grading difficult


Wikipedia states:

The twinning began in 2006 and will take at least five years to complete. As of October 2009, the twinning of approximately 16 km of this 240 km corridor had been completed, with another 16 km expected to be graded by fall 2011.​
by "at least 5 years" (2011) I think they originally wanted to do a little more than 32 out of 240 kilometers.


----------



## Transportfan

To avoid confusion, the new A-30 bypass should be numbered as A-20 and 20 through the West Island to the A-540 split be renumbered to A-720 (extension of the Ville Marie Autoroute). This would make more sense as it would make A-20's routing "through" Montreal easier to follow.


----------



## Nima-Farid

Bienvenue au Québec!!!
(I-91 deviens/Becomes A-55)


----------



## Nima-Farid

Proposed A-35 Autoroute between Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu and USA
L'autoroute A-35 proposé entre Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu et É-U


----------



## Haljackey

I have attempted once again to recreate Canada's iconic 'basketweave' interchange in SimCity 4.

A lot more content is available since the last time I made one, due to a new release of the RealHighway (RHW) mod that is an alternative to the in-game highways.

Anyways, have a look. Click both for full size.


Zoom out:



Zoom in:


I still can't get wider highways to remain after the splits, but hopefully that will be available in the coming releases.


----------



## Nima-Farid

nice! tempts me to play simcity...


----------



## Nima-Farid

Unique road signs in Yukon
Les panneaux de signalisation uniques au Yukon


----------



## Nima-Farid

Autoroute A-20 à l'ouest de Montréal
A-20 Motorway west of Montreal


----------



## Nima-Farid

Aoutoroute 30


----------



## Nima-Farid

Plus des infos sur A-35
More Info on A-35

































































Ouverture en 2013 

L’ouverture à la circulation de ces deux segments, qui relieront le tronçon existant de l’autoroute 35 à la route 133 à Saint-Sébastien, est actuellement prévue pour la fin de 2013.


----------



## Nima-Farid

Les infos sur le projet d'extension de l'A-5, L'autoroute de Gatineau
Infos on the extension project of A-5, Gatineau Freeway


----------



## Nima-Farid

Autoroute 50


----------



## Haljackey

Nice info and pics but










More like septuple hno:


----------



## Nima-Farid

L'echangeur Dorval 
Dorval Interchange

Maintenant/Now
















Futur/Future


----------



## Nima-Farid

L’échangeur Turcot


----------



## rick1016

Scott, I thought I saw somewhere that the 404 extension turns east and crosses Woodbine before arriving at Ravenshoe. Do you know the path roughly? It will be nice to see this project FINALLY completed...


----------



## sonysnob

rick1016 said:


> Scott, I thought I saw somewhere that the 404 extension turns east and crosses Woodbine before arriving at Ravenshoe. Do you know the path roughly? It will be nice to see this project FINALLY completed...


I think early in the project that was the plan. But since the current government has committed to not extending the 404 further northeast, the project was scaled back to tie directly into Woodbine just south of Ravenshoe.


----------



## xzmattzx

Here's a picture of Highway 406 construction to make the entire road an expressway. This is just north of Main Street in Welland.


----------



## rick1016

Does anyone by chance know of how progress is going on the 401 express-collector extension in Mississauga thus far?


----------



## Ukraine

rick1016 said:


> Does anyone by chance know of how progress is going on the 401 express-collector extension in Mississauga thus far?


you can check the progress on this website )) http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/10054-401-Hurontario-Reconstruction/page28


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## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 407 - Ontario*

A widening of a 16 kilometer section of Highway 407 in the northern Toronto suburbs of Vaughan and Markham was completed today. The toll road has currently 10 lanes in anticipation of further population growth in the area (both aforementioned suburbs have very high growth rates).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Port Mann Bridge, Vancouver*

Port Mann Bridge update:


----------



## NFZANMNIM

ChrisZwolle said:


> A widening of a 16 kilometer section of Highway 407 in the northern Toronto suburbs of Vaughan and Markham was completed today. The toll road has currently 10 lanes in anticipation of further population growth in the area (both aforementioned suburbs have very high growth rates).


And dont forget Richmond Hill...


----------



## ElviS77

I've got a question for the natives: I'm going to Canada in a month, landing in Toronto and going to visit my sister in Kingston, then back to Toronto. Would it make sense to rent a car or am I better off trusting public transport?


----------



## NFZANMNIM

Kingston is not that close to Toronto. I would suggest you rent a car. because you have to transfer once to get to Toronto Downtown. and then at least once in Kingston.


----------



## ElviS77

NFZANMNIM said:


> Kingston is not that close to Toronto. I would suggest you rent a car. because you have to transfer once to get to Toronto Downtown. and then at least once in Kingston.


OK, thanks a lot!


----------



## Haljackey

Just finished making this bad boy: Timelapse Drive of Highway 8 in Kitchener, Ontario.


----------



## Haljackey

Timelapse video of a section of the newly widened 401 between Woodstock and Kitchener.


----------



## trece verde

Re ChrisZwolle's Port Mann Bridge update: some of the east-bound lanes on the new bridge are now open and in use. Because the approaches for the new bridge were built so close to those for the old bridge, part of it will have to be taken down to finish the new one, so traffic is being staged across. Hence, east-bound now on the new bridge, and no further east-bound traffic on the old bridge. The old east-bound lanes come down so the new west-bound lanes can be finished.

When it's done, we're being promised the"widest bridge in the world" (2 x 5 lanes with a bit of extra space to retrofit transit) by our governing dingbats, although I'm sure the veracity of that claim is entirely up for grabs.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's not the widest bridge in the world, but it may be the widest cable-stayed bridge. 

The Verrazano-Narrows Bridge in New York has 12 lanes, but it's a suspension bridge. The Van Brienenoord Bridge in Rotterdam has 12 lanes, but it's an arch bridge. There are probably more 12+ lane bridges in the world.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's not the widest bridge in the world, but it may be the widest cable-stayed bridge.
> 
> The Verrazano-Narrows Bridge in New York has 12 lanes, but it's a suspension bridge. The Van Brienenoord Bridge in Rotterdam has 12 lanes, but it's an arch bridge. There are probably more 12+ lane bridges in the world.


It's been a while since I crossed the Verrazano, but I know it has two decks. So is that 12 lanes on each, or 12 total?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

4x3 lanes. 2x3 on each deck.


----------



## trece verde

Okay, if I understand the math correctly, that makes a total of 6 lanes on each deck? This would be 10+2 transit lanes on one deck. Total width is supposed to be 60 m. For those of you keeping score in Ontario and Alberta, that's just slightly shorter than the length of a hockey rink's ice surface.


----------



## Haljackey

Thinking you guys may enjoy this SC4 Recreation:


----------



## NFZANMNIM

Close enough. Except that the surrounding area is residental, not a forest...


----------



## Smelser

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's not the widest bridge in the world, but it may be the widest cable-stayed bridge.
> 
> The Verrazano-Narrows Bridge in New York has 12 lanes, but it's a suspension bridge. The Van Brienenoord Bridge in Rotterdam has 12 lanes, but it's an arch bridge. There are probably more 12+ lane bridges in the world.


The BC Govt maintains that with a width of 65 metres it is the widest bridge of any type in the world. "Urbanists" who are shills for downtown real estate interests call the claim "embarassing". 

http://www.pmh1project.com/in-your-community/in-your-community-port-mann-bridge/Pages/default.aspx


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Van Brienenoord Bridge in Rotterdam, Netherlands is slightly wider, but it's not a single deck (two visually identical bridges of different eras jointed together)


----------



## Haljackey

On Sunday I was on a tour showcasing infrastructure improvements in Mississauga, Ontario (a city next to Toronto and larger than Detroit). One of the projects showcased was a 'lane doubling' of Highway 401 which included the expansion of an interchange with Hurontario Street, the 'main street' of Mississauga.

It wasn't the greatest day weather-wise but I did manage to take a bunch of pics of the construction work. You can view them here if interested: http://www.dropbox.com/sh/2e5lsmi0w5136v1/4-MyPtLO09


----------



## NFZANMNIM

Haljackey said:


> On Sunday I was on a tour showcasing infrastructure improvements in Mississauga, Ontario (a city next to Toronto and larger than Detroit). One of the projects showcased was a 'lane doubling' of Highway 401 which included the expansion of an interchange with Hurontario Street, the 'main street' of Mississauga.
> 
> It wasn't the greatest day weather-wise but I did manage to take a bunch of pics of the construction work. You can view them here if interested: http://www.dropbox.com/sh/2e5lsmi0w5136v1/4-MyPtLO09


It has been 4 months now since when i was there the last time. And there it is the good old traffic jam there


----------



## Xusein

That SimCity interchange is awesome! My only gripe is that they are very wide in area.

A couple years ago, I drove on that interchange and accidentally went into 407, never paid the toll. :tongue2:


----------



## NFZANMNIM

Xusein said:


> That SimCity interchange is awesome! My only gripe is that they are very wide in area.
> 
> A couple years ago, I drove on that interchange and accidentally went into 407, never paid the toll. :tongue2:


haha LOL


----------



## nname

Smelser said:


> The BC Govt maintains that with a width of 65 metres it is the widest bridge of any type in the world. "Urbanists" who are shills for downtown real estate interests call the claim "embarassing".
> 
> http://www.pmh1project.com/in-your-community/in-your-community-port-mann-bridge/Pages/default.aspx


It is the widest _long span_ bridge.


----------



## Smelser

A local Vancouver news item on the opening of the new Port Mann Bridge, containing complaints by urbanists that it's all a mistake, the last one of it's kind, etc.

Also quoted is a genuine expert, Prof Lindsey of UBC



http://metronews.ca/news/vancouver/459706/new-port-mann-a-link-to-the-past/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The usual anti-freeway bla bla. They think the transportation policy of a few square kilometer downtown core can be copied to hundreds if not thousands of square kilometers of residential areas. Greater Vancouver is overwhelmingly suburban in character.

They do have a point though, that the Port Mann Bridge has overcapacity as long as the connecting road segments are not widened to at least 2x4 lanes. Vancouver has a stupid policy of having the third lane as an HOV lane while it is known they are only viable as a 5th lane or more. In fact, 50% of the 2+ HOV users are people who would have traveled together any way, thus not reducing the number of vehicles on the road. Approximately 1 million people are directly served by the heavily undercapacity Highway 1. 

Vancouver has the worst highway system of any major metropolitan area in North America. There are only a few freeways and most of them do not exceed 4 or maybe 6 lanes. There are several missing links and large residential areas are not served by high-capacity roads, thus resulting in unacceptably high volumes on surface streets, generally unsuited for such traffic volumes. In fact, the average commute in Vancouver is longer than in Los Angeles.


----------



## Botev1912

It took me 45 minutes to get out of Vancouver city limits (from Stanley Park to highway 99) on a Sunday evening at 9 pm. I can't imagine what it would be on a weekday at 6 pm

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...FRG-7gIdSD2p-A&mra=mift&mrsp=1&sz=13&t=m&z=13


----------



## geogregor

Botev1912 said:


> It took me 45 minutes to get out of Vancouver city limits (from Stanley Park to highway 99) on a Sunday evening at 9 pm. I can't imagine what it would be on a weekday at 6 pm
> 
> https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...FRG-7gIdSD2p-A&mra=mift&mrsp=1&sz=13&t=m&z=13


Wow, that's bad.
I could move faster even in London. Especially on Sunday evening.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Pont de Québec turns 93 years today.


----------



## VoltAmps

ChrisZwolle said:


> The usual anti-freeway bla bla. They think the transportation policy of a few square kilometer downtown core can be copied to hundreds if not thousands of square kilometers of residential areas. Greater Vancouver is overwhelmingly suburban in character.
> 
> They do have a point though, that the Port Mann Bridge has overcapacity as long as the connecting road segments are not widened to at least 2x4 lanes. Vancouver has a stupid policy of having the third lane as an HOV lane while it is known they are only viable as a 5th lane or more. In fact, 50% of the 2+ HOV users are people who would have traveled together any way, thus not reducing the number of vehicles on the road. Approximately 1 million people are directly served by the heavily undercapacity Highway 1.
> 
> Vancouver has the worst highway system of any major metropolitan area in North America. There are only a few freeways and most of them do not exceed 4 or maybe 6 lanes. There are several missing links and large residential areas are not served by high-capacity roads, thus resulting in unacceptably high volumes on surface streets, generally unsuited for such traffic volumes. In fact, the average commute in Vancouver is longer than in Los Angeles.


Well said

Couldn't agree more


----------



## Smelser

ChrisZwolle said:


> The usual anti-freeway bla bla. They think the transportation policy of a few square kilometer downtown core can be copied to hundreds if not thousands of square kilometers of residential areas. Greater Vancouver is overwhelmingly suburban in character.
> 
> They do have a point though, that the Port Mann Bridge has overcapacity as long as the connecting road segments are not widened to at least 2x4 lanes. Vancouver has a stupid policy of having the third lane as an HOV lane while it is known they are only viable as a 5th lane or more. In fact, 50% of the 2+ HOV users are people who would have traveled together any way, thus not reducing the number of vehicles on the road. Approximately 1 million people are directly served by the heavily undercapacity Highway 1.
> 
> Vancouver has the worst highway system of any major metropolitan area in North America. There are only a few freeways and most of them do not exceed 4 or maybe 6 lanes. There are several missing links and large residential areas are not served by high-capacity roads, thus resulting in unacceptably high volumes on surface streets, generally unsuited for such traffic volumes. In fact, the average commute in Vancouver is longer than in Los Angeles.



I would generally agree with most of what you have said. You need to remember the governmental structure in Vancouver and district, where there are over twenty municipalities. Vancouver is governed by it's own special Vancouver Charter Act, which makes the City proper its own highways department. All of the other municipalities in the region are under the BC Min of Transportation and Highways for highways work and maintenance. 

There's a second wrinkle. Translink, the transit agency for the region, is also responsible for "arterial roads", roads that are wide enough to be highways of a sort but just aren't classified that way by the BC Govt. So, for example, the Knight Street and Patullo Bridges are now Translink properties, not BC Govt properties, as is the new Golden Ears Bridge connecting Maple Ridge and Langley.

Vancouver taxpayer's face the highest real estate prices in Canada, and are reluctant to add to the cost of home or apartment ownership by paying higher property taxes for any purpose, including transportation infrastructure, be it highways or transit. As a result, every piece of infrastructure that does get built is argued about in extremely emotional terms, since it's seen as taking a major chunk out of a fairly small pool.

Your point about Vancouver having a thoroughly incomplete highway system is well taken. Vancouver's urbanists have made this their biggest single marketing schtick when selling $600-700 per square foot micro-condo-suites. They claim that all really progressive experts agree that Vancouver's absence of freeways is a major "livable city" blessing that will increase your property values, young man/woman, ... just as soon as you sign these papers!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What makes a livable city is highly subjective and differs from person to person. I don't think transportation makes it to the top of the list for most, but it can be a factor. For some people it's low crime, for others it's a great bar/cultural/arts scene, for others it's affordable housing, low taxes and for others it's recreational options. For many it's a combination of several factors. 

Most cities includes in the lists are significantly suburbanized and cities with substantial need for a decent road infrastructure.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A30 Montréal Bypass, Québec province*

A major Autoroute opening today in Québec Province. The final 30 kilometers of A30 opened to traffic today. This is partially a toll road because of the number of bridges and a tunnel. 

Starting today, traffic from Toronto or Ottawa toward just about any other city than Montréal in Québec does not have to drive through the Montréal urban area anymore. It's a huge improvement for through traffic. A540 near Vaudreuil-Dorion is also renumbered to A30, this also eliminates the existence of two A540's in Québec. The former A30 around Salaberry-de-Valleyfield (a two-lane road and part autoroute) is renumbered to A530.


----------



## Puritan

ChrisZwolle said:


> A major Autoroute opening today in Québec Province. The final 30 kilometers of A30 opened to traffic today. This is partially a toll road because of the number of bridges and a tunnel.


A30 Montreal - First Look/Drivelapse by MorseCoach


----------



## MrAronymous

Do they 'keep right except when passing' everywhere in Canada like that?


----------



## NFZANMNIM

MrAronymous said:


> Do they 'keep right except when passing' everywhere in Canada like that?


On the contrary, this is what is logical and done in Europe, but I haven't seen this logic to be followed in Canada. (ie Toronto) And in the video you can see that the guy passes 2 or 3 trucks from the left.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

Puritan said:


> A30 Montreal - First Look/Drivelapse by MorseCoach


1,50 $ only? That's so cheap canadian standard.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The volume is 5,000 - 7,000 vehicles per day.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> The volume is 5,000 - 7,000 vehicles per day.


That clearly doesn't justify upgrade to full freeway status.
In Europe there must be thousands of km of roads which are in 1x1 profile and carry much higher traffic levels.


----------



## keokiracer

geogregor said:


> That clearly doesn't justify upgrade to full freeway status.
> In Europe *there must be thousands of km of roads* which are in 1x1 profile and carry much higher traffic levels.


In The Netherlands only I'd say.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

geogregor said:


> In Europe there must be thousands of km of roads which are in 1x1 profile and carry much higher traffic levels.


I don't see why this should be relevant. There are also thousands of kilometers of motorways in the world with this kind of traffic volumes. 

It's not like "Canada can't build a motorway because Europe has non-motorways that have more traffic". 

Traffic volumes are not the only argument to build a motorway. Other reasons include travel times and traffic safety.


----------



## kev_427

I wouldn't mind if the upgraded the highway through Chamberlain. I doubt it's much of a bottleneck, but I can't stand inconsistencies.


----------



## Haljackey

Also keep in mind that Saskatchewan only has a population of 1 million. That's not a big tax base to draw from meaning expensive projects like a freeway from Saskatoon to Regina would be a massive strain on the province's budget.

*Note that in Canada, most roads are provincially controlled unlike the USA and other places. The federal government may chip into the project a bit, but the province needs to foot the rest of the bill.


In Ontario, volumes need to be 10,000 at a minimum to justify grade-separation. 
-However, exceptions can be made like the Highway 400 extension to Sudbury.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Is that why Canadian Route 1 is twinned from Calgary to Baniff but not westward to Kamloops?


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't see why this should be relevant. There are also thousands of kilometers of motorways in the world with this kind of traffic volumes.
> 
> It's not like "Canada can't build a motorway because Europe has non-motorways that have more traffic".
> 
> Traffic volumes are not the only argument to build a motorway. Other reasons include travel times and traffic safety.


Sure, but looking on this route it is dead straight, with good not obstructed views, little traffic on the main route as well as on the intersecting roads, it is already twinned etc. 
Really not dangerous or slow. It wouldn't be the best use of taxpayer money.




Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Is that why Canadian Route 1 is twinned from Calgary to Baniff but not westward to Kamloops?


I think it actually has a lot to do with challenging topography. I guess that traffic on Trans-Canada Hwy is higher than between Regina and Saskatoon.



Haljackey said:


> Also keep in mind that Saskatchewan only has a population of 1 million. That's not a big tax base to draw from meaning expensive projects like a freeway from Saskatoon to Regina would be a massive strain on the province's budget.


That was precisely my thinking. A lot of money spend with little visible benefit. Upgrading roads around the urban centers must have much more sense.


----------



## Gil

Haljackey said:


> Also keep in mind that Saskatchewan only has a population of 1 million. That's not a big tax base to draw from meaning expensive projects like a freeway from Saskatoon to Regina would be a massive strain on the province's budget.
> 
> *Note that in Canada, most roads are provincially controlled unlike the USA and other places. The federal government may chip into the project a bit, but the province needs to foot the rest of the bill.
> 
> 
> In Ontario, volumes need to be 10,000 at a minimum to justify grade-separation.
> -However, exceptions can be made like the Highway 400 extension to Sudbury.


It wouldn't surprise me if part of the funding came from the face that it's part of the Trans-Canada Highway network and that it also runs through Tony Clement's riding. One could be used to justify the other.

The areas north of Superior that could really use some sort of Federal funding are unfortunately held by the opposition NDP. If their upward trajectory continues though, they could be in a position to invest in their ridings. The NDP is after all pushing toward a national transportation strategy which this country sorely lacks.


----------



## Suburbanist

Canada would really benefit form a full-blown highway Vancouver-Halifax link (upgrades, using of existing highways, a few new bypasses and re-aligned sectors)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't think the Trans-Canadian Highway in the central provinces is much different in usage and function as I-94 or I-90 in the Dakotas or the High Plains. They could've been built as freeways in the 1960s. However, it's a different time now, so new freeways are not as common as they were 40 - 50 years ago. 

The cost of road construction has risen much more than general inflation in the last 3 decades or so, so it's quite a strain on the transportation budget to build hundreds of kilometers of freeway in present day.


----------



## Gil

The duplexed section of Hwy. 11/17 is one bottleneck of the Trans-Canada as there are no alternate routes short of going through the US. I know anecdotally (though I'm sure there's a report out there to confirm it within the industry) that a lot of truck traffic prefers to go through the US rather than travel through northern Ontario when travelling across the country. At the very least they could repave and twin that section. In the event of an accident, traffic could be diverted onto the other directional flow to create a bit of redundancy.


----------



## Suburbanist

I never understood why Ontario is so empty north of Thunder Bay.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> I never understood why Ontario is so empty north of Thunder Bay.


That is a interesting case in general in Canada. The middle parts of the southern provinces are usually among the northernmost areas that are somewhat developed, say between 49 and 55 N, comparable to the British isles, Benelux, Denmark, Northern Germany.

Scandinavia is developed much farther north. There are decent amounts of towns and cities, integrated road networks at a similar latitude as Northern Territories and Nunavut. Ontario and Québec are even more interesting because there are virtually no roads north of 49 N (Paris is at 48.5 N). 

Apparently there was never a need to found towns and exploit natural resources that far north. Of course the climate is an issue, but that counts for Sweden and Finland as well.


----------



## Sunfuns

Suburbanist said:


> I never understood why Ontario is so empty north of Thunder Bay.


You might as well ask why folks are not so eager to live in Siberia, particularly in the central and northern parts. :lol:


----------



## Sunfuns

Seriously, have you all completely forgotten about the Gulf stream? The climate in inland Canada above 50th parallel is quite similar to that in Siberia and not at all like northern Scandinavia


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Gulf Stream mainly influences the Norwegian coast and keeps it fairly mild. But northern Sweden and Finland are bitter cold during the winter as well due protection from the Scandinavian Highlands. In Siberia, cold was never considered an issue for development.


----------



## Sunfuns

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Gulf Stream mainly influences the Norwegian coast and keeps it fairly mild. But northern Sweden and Finland are bitter cold during the winter as well due protection from the Scandinavian Highlands. In Siberia, cold was never considered an issue for development.


The Gulf Stream influences the climate of northern Sweden and Finland as well only to a slightly lesser degree than coastal Norway. In fact the influence of the stream, while gradually diminishing in the eastward direction, is still noticeable all the way to Ural mountains. The city of Rovaniemi in Finland, for example, is at 66 N but still has six months of above freezing temperatures. In contrast equivalent territories in Canada (well north of Hudson bay) are frozen wasteland. 

As for Siberia there are no sizable cities above the 58th parallel. Only mining towns, many of them established by a slave labor during Stalin's years.


----------



## Haljackey

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Is that why Canadian Route 1 is twinned from Calgary to Baniff but not westward to Kamloops?


The Trans-Canada highway is a federal highway, so provincial boundaries don't apply as much.



Gil said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if part of the funding came from the face that it's part of the Trans-Canada Highway network and that it also runs through Tony Clement's riding.


Nope, Sask. Highway 11 is a provincial road.



Suburbanist said:


> Canada would really benefit form a full-blown highway Vancouver-Halifax link (upgrades, using of existing highways, a few new bypasses and re-aligned sectors)


In the 1990's there was a proposal to make the trans-canada a full freeway from coast to coast. The bill was defeated because it isn't really needed because traffic volumes are so low.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Is that why Canadian Route 1 is twinned from Calgary to Baniff but not westward to Kamloops?


It's the geography. That said though, they are SLOWLY (glaciers move faster) working on it though. Some sections are being upgraded. The Kicking Horse Canyon project is the most noteworthy (linky below), but there are also other projects that have been completed over the years. I doubt it will be full motorway, like, say, France for example, but it will still be far better than what's there now.


Kicking Horse Canyon Project:
http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/kickinghorse/index.htm


----------



## Haljackey

Haljackey said:


> Perimeter Highway (Trans-Canada 100) in Winnipeg





ChrisZwolle said:


> But what the heck is this?


I questioned that myself. Perhaps staging to upgrade an intersection to an interchange? Shifting the roads to the side makes the centre free to build a overpass.

*EDIT:* Plans for the junction: http://biketothefuture.org/attachments/0000/1675/pth59n-pth101_interchange_publicinfo.pdf


----------



## Haljackey

Some updates:

Updated design for Highway 7/8/85 (Conestoga Parkway) interchange in Kitchener:
http://kingandottawa.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/frederick-expressway.pdf

401-Hurontario lane doubling looks nearly done
-Note: mute audio.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Amazing photo of the 401/404/Don Valley Parkway interchange in Toronto.


----------



## Haljackey

ChrisZwolle said:


> Amazing photo of the 401/404/Don Valley Parkway interchange in Toronto.


Larger size:








Source: http://www.wired.com/rawfile/2013/07/peter-andrew-aerial-freeways/#slideid-21850

That same photographer took this picture of the 400/407ETR interchange north of Toronto as well:








Source: http://www.wired.com/rawfile/2013/07/peter-andrew-aerial-freeways/#slideid-21844

Fun fact: This is the only true 4-level stack in Canada.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Does anyone know where Idylwyld Drive in Saskatoon was named after? Wikipedia or Google don't show a whole lot that makes sense. As far as I could tell it's not named after a person or specific Saskatoon area.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

I found this from a website related to a play called the same name, and it says that the word doesnt have any meaning


> In response, we decided to attempt to take ownership of the entire exhibition. We renamed the show Idylwyld, and painted it large on the first wall seen when entering the gallery. Idylwyld didn't mean anything, but we liked the way it looked and sounded. We hung a foam core plaque next to the mural that said, "We have renamed the current art show from 'Cast Off Your Idylls, Cast Off Your Sloth' to 'Idylwyld'.


http://playlab.org/works/idylwyld


----------



## Haljackey

Rapid Bridge replacement timelapse in Toronto:


----------



## NFZANMNIM

A unique sign probably in whole North America, in Longueuil, Montréal, Québec


----------



## Gil

^^

In Ontario the signs are usually placed at the side of the highway rather than overhead. The signs direct people to GO Transit Train stations and Bus Terminals. In Toronto there are also signs for the Yorkdale subway station since it's the only one adjacent to a freeway. I haven't passed the area recently (and Google's Streetview was taken in September 2011), so I don't know if they've co-signed it like the Longueuil example.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

I've been there quite recently and there isn't any overhead sign like that, the most you can see is a small rectangular white sign with a TTC symbol (Toronto Transit comission) on it. My main focus was on the overyhead sign with the station name and icons on it.
Here is the sign at yorkdale:








The only recent google street view picture is available on a narrow 70 m long ramp on the northeast corner of Yorkdale Mall.


----------



## Gil

NFZANMNIM said:


> I've been there quite recently and there isn't any overhead sign like that, the most you can see is a small rectangular white sign with a TTC symbol (Toronto Transit comission) on it. My main focus was on the overyhead sign with the station name and icons on it.
> Here is the sign at yorkdale:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only recent google street view picture is available on a narrow 70 m long ramp on the northeast corner of Yorkdale Mall.


Like I said, the streetview images are from 2011. The GO station signage went up late 2011-early 2012, so they don't appear there. I did find this image:










In the case of bus terminal the symbol is changed from the train.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

ChrisZwolle said:


> Amazing photo of the 401/404/Don Valley Parkway interchange in Toronto.



horrible interchange to drive over, going from the 404 to the DVP. the highway goes from 4 lanes (5 with the HOV) to 2 over the 401, and back to 3 once it turns into the DVP. There is almost always some form of traffic on the overpass no matter the time of day.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

NFZANMNIM said:


> I found this from a website related to a play called the same name, and it says that the word doesnt have any meaning
> 
> http://playlab.org/works/idylwyld


Interestingly, New York's JFK Airport was originally named Idlewild Airport after the area where it's built.
Could it have come from this maybe?


----------



## Des

I drove the 400 and part of the 401 today, impressive bit of highway! Never seen anything like it in Europe!


----------



## NFZANMNIM

Impressive peice of engineering work, indeed, but what is the point if that segment of road is not backed up by a sophicticated city-wide expressway-boulevard-main street-local street+public transport system? The traffic jams in the 401 during rush hour are horrible.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think the majority of the drivers on the 401 do not have a destination in downtown Toronto though.


----------



## sonysnob

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think the majority of the drivers on the 401 do not have a destination in downtown Toronto though.


During rush hour, I think most drivers on the 401 have a destination somewhere within the GTA, even if it isn't in Toronto proper.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Definitely. I think 80% of the traffic on the Toronto segment of 401 has an origin or destination within the GTA. Traffic volumes taper off pretty quickly in eastern Ontario. 

Although downtown Toronto lacks a good access road to the northwest, most GTA traffic and commuting is not towards the city center. It's a common misconception that most commuting is towards downtown areas, typically 80 - 90% of commuting is not to these areas. In fact, if you look at the traffic volumes on both the Don Valley Parkway and the Gardiner Expressway, you can notice traffic volumes drop significantly towards downtown Toronto. The Gardiner carries over twice the amount of traffic in Etobicoke than it does near downtown. The same counts for the DVP, volumes near the 401 are twice that of the southern segment.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Most downtown workers travel via transit, with GO handling 85,000 passengers daily and the TTC bringing another 350,000 downtown.


----------



## Haljackey

If I want to go to downtown Toronto, I typically take the 401 to Allen Road (Yorkdale Mall) and take the subway the rest of the way. 

While I could just take the Gardiner and drive downtown, this is easier, and I don't have to pay a fortune for parking!


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Ontario has service stops on the 401, and 400. They are more of a relic of early inter-regional highways. The further north portions of the 400 and other inter-regional highways like the 402, 416 and 417 don't have it.


----------



## Haljackey

It's also demand. If traffic volumes are light, then a service centre isn't justified. 400 North might be a good candidate for a 'rest centre', which in the US just have washrooms and vending machines.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Is there any road in Canada with a speed limit above 100?


----------



## Haljackey

Yes some controlled-access highways in British Colombia and Alberta are 110.

There is talk about increasing the limit in BC to 120 or 130 in some places too.


----------



## Blackraven

There is one in New Brunswick (according to wikipedia)










Anyways, I'm really amazed with Ontario Highway 401.










I can now understand as to why this is the busiest and most extensively used roadway in Canada.

And wow, I just found out that it has the most number vehicle lanes of any road system in Canada (as many as 18 lanes!!!).

Hardcore!!! :banana:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This would be considered a modern "aqueduct" in the Netherlands (i.e. a structure that carries water over other things, not being a pipeline).


----------



## Penn's Woods

I was very close to there last Sunday.

Chris (and whoever else is interested), there was coverage of the pont Champlain's issues - it's current state, the replacement project... - in Quebec media all week. Well, through Thursday (when I left), anyway.


----------



## Gil

Innsertnamehere said:


> Ontario has service stops on the 401, and 400. They are more of a relic of early inter-regional highways. The further north portions of the 400 and other inter-regional highways like the 402, 416 and 417 don't have it.


The length and areas those highways serve also mean it's not necessary to build service centres along them as there are plenty of facilities located adjacent to exits along the highway. The ones along the 401 and 400 are located in what were once sparsely populated rural areas. If a truck needed fuel for example it'd have to make a significant detour. The service centre in Mississauga for example became redundant as the city grew and development surrounded the service centre.


----------



## Haljackey

A little old, but a cool design plan for a interchange replacement in Ingersoll. Will involve a pair or roundabouts http://www.ingersoll.ca/Portals/Ing...ndas/2012/Agendas/04_10_2012/StantecPower.pdf


----------



## sonysnob

Hwy 427 Toronto:

Some pics of the 427 through Etobicoke taken a few weeks ago. MTO is undertaking a multi-year project to rehabilitate this road which was constructed during the late 1960s.

Some photos:













































Additional photos and larger available here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/Hwy427_cons_images.htm#Sep2013


----------



## Haljackey

Very nice! The change is very noticeable as it is going from a concrete to asphalt surface. Also the median and lights are being modernized.

I actually recorded HWY 427 last week between the 401 and Gardiner in the southbound express lanes. 

Watch here: (427 part starts at 3:45 in)


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Gil said:


> The length and areas those highways serve also mean it's not necessary to build service centres along them as there are plenty of facilities located adjacent to exits along the highway. The ones along the 401 and 400 are located in what were once sparsely populated rural areas. If a truck needed fuel for example it'd have to make a significant detour. The service centre in Mississauga for example became redundant as the city grew and development surrounded the service centre.


The northern 400 isn't sparsely populated? and you honestly think the one between Toronto and Barrie is needed?


----------



## sonysnob

The Georgian Bay travel Centre at Horeshoe Lake Road on Hwy 400 is a quasi service Centre. I don't know exactly what the relationship is with the government, but the centre was an Ontario Tourist Centre before the current site was built.


----------



## Penn's Woods

First time I've looked at a Canadian news site since my trip of one-to-two weeks ago. Champlain Bridge coverage continues.

For those who read French:

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/m...peage-sur-champlain-une-aberration-totale.php

For those who don't read French, the provincial and local governments have been joined by south shore business leaders in protesting against a prospective toll on the new bridge. Interviewee saying if the Federal government built the thing defectively, it's on them....

Calling the tolls "une aberration totale" should be understandable even to non-francophones.


----------



## Haljackey

Toronto's Don Valley in autumn


Don Valley by MafaldaBoy, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

^^
Fantastic shot!

:cheers:


----------



## Haljackey

I Made A Autumn Timelapse Drive From London To Kitchener


----------



## Transportfan

Gil said:


> The length and areas those highways serve also mean it's not necessary to build service centres along them as there are plenty of facilities located adjacent to exits along the highway. The ones along the 401 and 400 are located in what were once sparsely populated rural areas. If a truck needed fuel for example it'd have to make a significant detour. The service centre in Mississauga for example became redundant as the city grew and development surrounded the service centre.


You need to do your homework: Even though the 402,403,417, etc. are shorter, people driving along them are usually on them as part as a longer drive coming from/continuing to the 401, A-40, etc. And the 417 corridor doesn't have a lot of services nearby. As for the Mississauga service centre, it wasn't one of the original ones. It was built in the 1990s as a welcome centre for the GTA but wasn't successful for some reason.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 11, Saskatchewan*

The twinning of Highway 11 in Saskatchewan is now more or less completed. Highway 11 was twinned over the last 5 years from Saskatoon to Prince Albert (130 km). Only a 1.6 km segment near the northern terminus at Highway 2 needs some more work.

http://www.paherald.sk.ca/News/Loca...48645/Twinned-Highway-11-opens-at-MacDowall/1


----------



## Haljackey

I took a couple new shots today of the 401 extension in Windsor:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 17, South Fraser Perimeter Road, Vancouver, BC*

*South Fraser Perimeter Road, B.C.'s newest highway, opens*

Today, the Honourable Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Member of Parliament for Delta-Richmond East and Minister of National Revenue along with B.C.'s Transportation and Infrastructure Minister Todd Stone officially opened B.C.'s newest highway - the South Fraser Perimeter Road (SFPR).

The new four-lane highway is a key piece of B.C.'s transportation network, which will strengthen the province's economy and make travelling and commuting quicker and easier. 

SFPR connects to all five major Fraser River crossings, which will save motorists time and offer more travel options. As an example, travel time between Highway 1 and the Tsawwassen ferry terminal is now less than 30 minutes, compared with travel times of double that using Highway 10.

The SFPR is a key piece of B.C.'s transportation network, which will generate economic growth and make the province more competitive by connecting key port, rail and highway infrastructure. The SFPR is officially Highway 17. The old Highway 17 through Delta is now 17A.

The SFPR is a four-lane highway, about 37 kilometres long, along the south side of the Fraser River. The 80-kilometre-per-hour route will extend from Deltaport Way in Southwest Delta to 176th Street (Highway 15) in Surrey, with connections to Highways 1, 91 and 99.​
map:


----------



## Haljackey

Cool video of A720 and others in Montreal


----------



## Kanadzie

Nice video. The interchange in the intro (say 20 sec) is infamous Turcot Interchange, in strong danger of falling down. The ramp of 15-S -> 720 E (and its opposite) had the entire layer of asphalt scarified off last year (as if preparing for fresh pavement, but no pavement), you can see the grooved straight concrete there, it is rather bumpy and a little spooky at the 90 -> 100 km/h traffic that takes the ramp.

The straight ramp, 15-S -> 15 S, is somewhat spectacular, it goes very high overhead at the interchange, but has been narrowed from 2 lanes to 1 to reduce weight on the ramp as it is also in extremely risky condition.

Maintenance is constant at the interchange and I think the last spend is about $100 M in a year simply for monitoring and trying to keep it standing. There is a project to replace, but it is becoming seriously boon-doggled including the corruption scandal currently ongoing in the province, after spending some years being opposed by ecofacist types.

The Laurentian Interchange (Metropolian / Laurentian (15)) at the end was just heavily re-worked, opening in current state in summer 2012. From opening in 1959 to 2012, the 40 E/15N -> 15 N ramp was a single exit on the left. It has been moved to a gentler larger ramp on the right side, to reduce weaving from the Decarie traffic continuing north. Traffic operations in the area are horrible however. There is a similar near-term plan to reconfigure the Decarie Interchange to put the 40W / 15S ramp on the right side as well, as opposed to a left exit currently. Curiously, the Turcot interchange, to be built in a closed rail yard below a cliff, had massive local (but not closer than some km) opposition, while the reconfigurations at Decarie and Laurentian have passed very quietly, despite those areas being highly densely developed with commercial and residential development (but... the residents are wealthier than those in the Turcot area)

Also, the A-720 is planned to be deleted during the Turcot reconstruction, replaced by "Route 136", to permit lower design standards. A-720 has terrible design standard so it is wondering what this will mean. I imagine the road standard will remain approximately the same, but that R-136 will continue along Notre-Dame St and Souligny Ave to the A-25 interchange.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*South Fraser Perimeter Road*

The South Fraser Perimeter Road (SFPR) in suburban Vancouver.


SFPR: Tannery Road Interchange by TranBC, on Flickr


SFPR: Highway 99 Interchange by TranBC, on Flickr


SFPR: Heading West by TranBC, on Flickr


----------



## Botev1912

why are the surroundings so ugly?


----------



## VoltAmps

Botev1912 said:


> why are the surroundings so ugly?


Why is Plovdiv so ugly??


----------



## Kanadzie

Answer? 'Cause it is winter and the winter is too warm for snow there (in both cases it seems)


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Botev1912 said:


> why are the surroundings so ugly?


Like Chris said, it's the time of year when the pics were taken.



VoltAmps said:


> Why is Plovdiv so ugly??


That neighborhood doesn't look too bad, actually. Obviously, it's an older one, but still, unless it's a part of Plovdiv that has a very high crime and/or drug use activity area, I would consider living in that area if for some reason I chose to move there.


----------



## Kanadzie

Fargo Wolf said:


> That neighborhood doesn't look too bad, actually. Obviously, it's an older one, but still, unless it's a part of Plovdiv that has a very high crime and/or drug use activity area, I would consider living in that area if for some reason I chose to move there.


What, live in a panelak? Nobody wants to live in a panelak :nuts:

Mind you, for price of the smallest 1950's shack house in Kamloops, you could probably buy three or four entire such panelaky, maybe all the ones you see in that picture, could be interesting


----------



## Botev1912

VoltAmps said:


> Why is Plovdiv so ugly??


Plovdiv is not Vancouver and Bulgaria is not Canada. More questions?


----------



## geogregor

Come on guys, this discussion is going dangerously OT and even worse, becomes country vs country.

The South Fraser Perimeter Road goes through industrial wastelands and landscapes like that exist in any country in the world. I
Well, maybe with exception of, let say, Switzerland or Norway but I'm sure even there if we look for it we will find it. 

Any other significant road projects going on in Vancouver at the moment?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The industrial landscape was the primary reason why the South Fraser Perimeter Road was built.



> Any other significant road projects going on in Vancouver at the moment?


The Gateway Program seems to be finished. Several bridges were built and Highway 1 was widened.

The next major project is the replacement of the 4-lane George Massey Tunnel by a 10-lane cable-stayed bridge.


----------



## Kanadzie

ChrisZwolle said:


> The industrial landscape was the primary reason why the South Fraser Perimeter Road was built.
> 
> 
> 
> The Gateway Program seems to be finished. Several bridges were built and Highway 1 was widened.
> 
> The next major project is the replacement of the 4-lane George Massey Tunnel by a 10-lane cable-stayed bridge.


It is really impressive they have been able to do these projects. Vancouver is ground zero for anti-car zealots in all America. But the traffic flow there, is _so bad_...

Other Canadian road news, in Montreal, piece of overpass fell off and smashed some cars driving on freeway underneath, normal day :nuts:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...concrete-falls-on-car-from-overpass-1.2494750

this article is better but in French, in video the journalist grills the poor PR lady of transport ministry :lol:
http://fr.canoe.ca/infos/societe/archives/2014/01/20140113-122930.html


----------



## Haljackey

Vancouver is a good example of a large North American city with a dysfunctional road system. I'm sure the delays have a negative effect on the local economy.

Montreal is a good example of a large North American city with a overbuilt road system. I'm sure neglected maintenance work has a negative effect on the local economy.

-----

There are some mid-sized Canadian cities that are finding a good balance. Edmonton is completing the last chunk of their ring road, Hamilton's municipal expressways are an alternative to the provincial freeways (and also form a circle around the central city) and Quebec City and Halifax have good systems as well. 

Calgary is working to expand their network and so are Regina and Saskatoon. Toronto is extending their toll highway to the east to take some stress off the 401 and has a 427 extension planned. Ottawa did have a bypass in the works but I am not sure what has happened to it. Kitchener-Waterloo has a decent system and a new freeway is planned to link it with Guelph. Windsor's 401 extension to the US Border will link up with their municipal expressway. Vancouver is tackling expansion in a way unlike ever before, likely kicked off by infrastructure investments for the 2010 Olympics. Montreal is trying to get it's act together. 

Cities that fall off the radar are Winnipeg and my home town of London. 

Did I leave anything out? :nuts:


----------



## ssiguy2

Vancouver is trying to play catch up but these latest expansions still leaves it with, by far, the worse highway system of Canada's big 6 cities. 

Even the SFPR is just a four lane road not a freeway but Vancouver that's considered a huge leap forward.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Haljackey said:


> Vancouver is a good example of a large North American city with a dysfunctional road system. I'm sure the delays have a negative effect on the local economy.
> 
> Montreal is a good example of a large North American city with a overbuilt road system. I'm sure neglected maintenance work has a negative effect on the local economy.
> 
> -----
> 
> There are some mid-sized Canadian cities that are finding a good balance. Edmonton is completing the last chunk of their ring road, Hamilton's municipal expressways are an alternative to the provincial freeways (and also form a circle around the central city) and Quebec City and Halifax have good systems as well.
> 
> Calgary is working to expand their network and so are Regina and Saskatoon. Toronto is extending their toll highway to the east to take some stress off the 401 and has a 427 extension planned. Ottawa did have a bypass in the works but I am not sure what has happened to it. Kitchener-Waterloo has a decent system and a new freeway is planned to link it with Guelph. Windsor's 401 extension to the US Border will link up with their municipal expressway. Vancouver is tackling expansion in a way unlike ever before, likely kicked off by infrastructure investments for the 2010 Olympics. Montreal is trying to get it's act together.
> 
> Cities that fall off the radar are Winnipeg and my home town of London.
> 
> Did I leave anything out? :nuts:


Is Quebec City any less overbuilt than Montreal, or are its autoroutes just newer? Or better-maintained? They've both got fairly dense systems and when you consider the cities' relative size....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Vancouver is the most congested city in North America, with the highest TTI. 

Montréal on the other hand, has a very dense network, but it is dated and in substandard condition. Toronto has fewer, but very wide freeways. 

These three cities have completely different settings. Vancouver is located in a river delta. Toronto had nearly no limitations to expand, while Montréal has to cope with being on islands in the St. Lawrence River. Large urban areas that are located near major water bodies have their weakest links in the river crossings, be it Vancouver, Montréal, San Francisco, Hampton Roads or New York.


----------



## Kanadzie

Penn's Woods said:


> Is Quebec City any less overbuilt than Montreal, or are its autoroutes just newer? Or better-maintained? They've both got fairly dense systems and when you consider the cities' relative size....


I think Quebec City freeways are about 10 years newer, and much more capacity for the traffic, so we only need to wait 10 years 

Montreal major problem is most freeways are not built to the network plan. You end up with for example Hwy 20 turning into a surface street east of downtown, Hwy 440 not touching Hwy 40 at any place, Hwy 640 not crossing the water and meeting with Hwy 40 in the west, Hwy 19 barely existing and cross-island route definitively buried, etc And then there is the Metropolitan :nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Conception Bay South, NL*

*Conception Bay South Bypass Extension Officially Opens Today*

With construction now complete, the Honourable Nick McGrath, Minister of Transportation and Works, cut the ribbon and officially opened the Conception Bay South (CBS) Bypass extension today. 

The $25.3 million project spans from Legion Road to Seal Cove representing a total distance of 5.6 kilometres. The Provincial Government contributed $18.8 million and the Government of Canada contributed $6.5 million through the Canada Strategic Infrastructure Fund.​
Full press release: http://www.releases.gov.nl.ca/releases/2014/tw/0115n01.htm


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Hal, You missed the 404 extension that opens in August, it runs up 15km or so to Keswick.

Vancouver has invested heavily in transit to try and offset the traffic problems, but the complete lack of highways has created problems. It does have the advantage of a fairly tight concession system however, around 800x900 meters. For comparison Toronto's concessions are 2.1km x 2.1km, and Montreal has no concession system. This allows for a higher local road capacity than Toronto as it has roughly twice as many arterial roads serving the same area, with similar suburban densities.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^I think I know what you mean by concession, but I doubt most non-Canadians would.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Concession roads form the grid network of streets / roads laid out in the 19th century to develop rural areas. They were "conceded" by the British Crown. They are most common in southern Ontario. 

Their appearance is rather similar to the grid network in the Great Plains and the Prairie Provinces.


----------



## Kanadzie

I think "concession" is only spoken of in Ontario, in Prairies they would say township or range road...

in Quebec mostly followed French system, roads perpendicular or parallel to the river with varying spacing. It is why you get this strange situation where even motorways are at right angles, signed north/south or east/west, but actually are not matching their signs as the river curves around Montreal.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Early Morning Summer Commute, Highway 401 by John Tavares Jr, on Flickr


----------



## Haljackey

A new highway opened in the Vancouver area. South Frasier Perimeter Road. Uses a mix of interchanges and intersections.


----------



## ssiguy2

Cool vid. 

It really is absurd that they didn't make the entire thing freeway from Twas all the way to Maple Ridge.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 4, Northwest Territories*

*New Highway 4 access to open Friday*

*Effective at noon on Friday, January 31, 2014, drivers will access the Ingraham Trail on the newly constructed Highway 4 alignment road. The nearly six kilometres of new road will provide travellers with a safer, more comfortable driving experience.*

The route for the new roadway was chosen after extensive consultations and the requirements of the Giant Mine remediation project were taken fully into account. The design/build contract for the construction was undertaken by Det’on Cho Corporation. Future work which remains, including roadway widening of the last 1.5 kilometres of old alignment to the Yellowknife River and chip sealing of the road surface, will be completed during the summer 2014 construction season.​Full press release: http://news.exec.gov.nt.ca/new-highway-4-access-to-open-friday/


----------



## Haljackey

Project announced to extend the Mavis Road 401 overpass and add the two missing links to the 401/403/410 interchange: http://www.401expansion-mississauga....79 FINAL.pdf

This will prepare the 401 for *ultimate widening* through Mississauga, whatever that means. :lol:

Pic from the document:


----------



## Gil

^^
You gotta love how dated that map is! Probably close to 10 years if not longer based on the road network depicted. Cortneypark is still incomplete and the rest of the neighbourhood south and west of Terry Fox and Matheson are missing.

You'd think they'd use a map that reflected the work that's already been completed with the extension of the Collector/Express lanes to Hurontario and the rebuilding of the Hurontario interchange. 

Any updates on the off-ramp to Whittle/Britannia from Hurontario? I'm curious as to how trucks will be able to handle the traffic circle they have envisioned. It'd have to be a fairly large one, but the entire tract of land between Britannia, Whittle, 401 and Hurontario save the Petro-Canada gas station is vacant. They could probably realign Britannia and Whittle to get a traffic circle into it if they needed to.

I'm more interested in the traffic circle as a means of easily making a U-turn to get onto Hurontario. The left-turn signal can't cope with the traffic demands at times for people heading north onto Hurontario. The proximity to the 410 (and soon to be 403) on-ramps probably preclude an on-ramp being built at Whittle.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*The Right Honourable Herb Gray Parkway*

December 2013 aerial photos of the Highway 401 extension (The Right Honourable Herb Gray Parkway) in Windsor, Ontario.


Aerial Photos December 2013 by Rt. Hon. Herb Gray Parkway, on Flickr


Aerial Photos December 2013 by Rt. Hon. Herb Gray Parkway, on Flickr


Aerial Photos December 2013 by Rt. Hon. Herb Gray Parkway, on Flickr


Aerial Photos December 2013 by Rt. Hon. Herb Gray Parkway, on Flickr


----------



## Haljackey

Preliminary Report on Future of the East Gardiner Released

http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2014/02/preliminary-report-future-east-gardiner-released

Maintain









Improve









Replace









Demolish










Gotta say I like the 4-lane single support design.


----------



## Kanadzie

Haljackey said:


> Gotta say I like the 4-lane single support design.


But you sure will hate driving on it! :lol:

I am not sure what is worse, all the Gardiner proposals or naming a road for Herb Gray :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

4 lanes is not sufficient for the current AADT of 110,000 vehicles. It would be congested most of the day and will also lead to more congestion further west because it becomes a bottleneck.

Replacing it with a surface street doesn't make any sense. It would increase, not decrease the barrier, and also be much more congested, an 8-lane urban arterial is not sufficient for the kind of traffic currently on the Gardiner Expressway. Very few surface streets in the world have traffic volumes of this kind. You can draw pretty renders of a tree-lined urban arterial, in reality it will be a clogged road with stop-and-go traffic throughout the day. Environmentally this also doesn't make any sense because it will increase emissions significantly because of longer travel times and much more stop-and-go traffic.

Maintain is the only sensible option here.


----------



## Haljackey

Most are calling for a complete demolition of the Gardiner east, along with downgrading the interchange with the Don Valley Parkway:










Comparison between the different proposals:











More expensive proposals like a tunnel and a cable-stayed viaduct are now off the drawing board.

In the end I think it will likely be maintained as it is the cheapest option. (It will cost less than demolishing it in the short-term.)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How is maintain the viaduct "least preferred" for pedestrians and cyclists? The maintain option provides by far the least conflict with traffic on the Gardiner Expressway (0 conflict to be exact), while the remove option will ensure pedestrians and cyclists will have to get through much more traffic than the current situation. 

Also, the current viaduct is much safer from a traffic point of view. If you demolish the viaduct, and direct all that traffic onto a surface street, you will have much more traffic through traffic lights, which are inherently less safe than a grade-separated overpass.

The report seems very biased for a removal of the expressway, while ignoring negative effects of that option. The removal will create much higher emissions due to stop-and-go traffic inherent to signalized intersections and traffic congestion, yet this option is presented as preffered in the evironment section. It doesn't make any sense.


----------



## Kanadzie

The worst part is the Gardiner is quite congested. The surface streets north tend to back up onto the ramps, and the road and also the surface street below (Lakeshore) often get totally jammed between like Spadina and the Humber river... even on a weekend afternoon the road system doesn't work properly. The intensive development around the area and growth of downtown TO are making increasing traffic counts a consistent reality. The corridor is constrained a little in areas, sometimes you can be stuck in traffic on the elevated and watch the news on television that is in a living room of a condo next to the road  

The elevated section seems to be in poor condition (but nothing like say, the Metropolitan in Montreal) and with inadequate capacity, so, of course, best solution is to reduce the capacity, clearly! 

I guess the safety issue is considering the risk of falling concrete?


----------



## sonysnob

The points for urban design in the matrix are so subjective too.


----------



## Haljackey

ChrisZwolle said:


> 4 lanes is not sufficient for the current AADT of 110,000 vehicles. It would be congested most of the day and will also lead to more congestion further west because it becomes a bottleneck.


Volumes on the east end of the Gardiner are much lower.

Between Jarvis and the Don Valley Parkway (study area), the Gardiner carries an average AADT of 50-60k.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardiner_Expressway#From_completion_to_the_present

That's why all the proposals that don't include 'maintain' see a reduction in the number of lanes on this stretch.


Edit: Scrap that, got confused by the article as this is per direction. Total is around 110k.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Its much better for the pedestrian as the replacement boulevard would be roughly 35 meters wide, enough for a crossing on a single light, compared to the current setup where it takes 2. Toronto's other 8 lane boulevard, University Avenue, is roughly 40 meters wide and can barely be crossed in a single signal. While not an ideal pedestrian situation, it is a far cry from the Gardiner.


The problem with the current gardiner is the highway off ramps. Cars fly off of them going 80-90km/h and don't look for pedestrians at all at the bottom. I have nearly been hit a couple of times walking past a gardiner off ramp. The pillars from the gardiner also make it easy to not see a pedestrian when turning.

There is also the issue of general urbanism. the longest distance to cross both the gardiner and the rail corridor is over 170 meters right now, far too long in far too hostile of an environment to be a "nice" walk.
The report states that emissions would drop with the at grade boulevard, largely because less cars would be using it. 

The replacement would have 3 intersections, Cherry, Parliament, and Sherbourne. The current distance to walk under the Gardiner (and across the 6 lane Lakeshore road) are roughly 65, 45, and 100 meters, with all 3 requiring 2 light cycles to do. The new boulevard would be 35 meters wide, and as I mentioned, would take a single light signal to cross.

in general right now the Gardiner varies in width between 60-100 meters and does nothing but to serve the movement of vehicles, the exact opposite of what you want in the middle of the city.

The gardiner also largely serves a single purpose of getting cars downtown. There is very, very little "through" traffic. The cars that use this road get off in the city, so its not that big of a deal to have 2 or 3 additional blocks to travel. Most DVP traffic gets off at the Eastern Avenue overpass, the Gardiner traffic largely gets off at Spadina, etc. this is a grade seperated road that serves a local purpose, unlike the further west portions of the Gardiner or the DVP which serves to get people in and out of the core.


----------



## Kanadzie

But really, is the Gardiner the issue of preventing a "nice walk"? There is nothing nice to walk _to _in that area. With 110 000 vehicles passing the area and like 110 pedestrians crossing...


----------



## Innsertnamehere

ah but that is changing. The whole area is becoming the cities new waterfront. The Gardiner is an peice of infrastructure meant for an industrial area that in a few years time will be in the middle of a dense residential area and cutting across the cities waterfront. Any work done to this won't start until 2020, and by that time the east donlands (the area south of the part of the gardiner in question) will be approaching completion.


----------



## ssiguy2

The Gardiner is a real blight and that area of the Toronto Waterfront is exploding in population and work places. The Gardiner is old and the cost of repair will be high which is money Toronto doesn't have and for most in Toronto tearing down the Eastern Gardiner {which has much less traffic levels than the section flowing west from downtown} will mean next to nothing and people in the inner city will be happy when the monstrocity is gone.


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## ChrisZwolle

ssiguy2 said:


> the Eastern Gardiner {which has much less traffic levels than the section flowing west from downtown}


It has also less traffic than the 401. Also, the transit share to the CBD is quite high.

However, these facts are irrelevant to this issue. The one thing that matters in this kind of decision-making is the number of vehicles per hour and per day. 

The current traffic volume on this particular segment of the Gardiner Expressway is *110,000 vehicles per day*. They want to add more people and businesses to that area, so it is likely it will increase.

To compare, it is much higher than other urban arterials in Toronto;

* Spadina carries 45,000 near the Gardiner and 22,000 at the Spadina Crescent. 
* University carries 50,000 at its max
* Yonge carries in the 20,000 - 25,000 range
* Bloor carries 30,000
* Kingston carries 30,000 - 40,000
* Allen Road carries 63,000 at its southern terminus
* Black Creek carries 45,000

These are the busiest urban arterials of Toronto, and nearly all of them carry less than half the volume of the eastern Gardiner.


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## Kanadzie

Wait... Didn't they tear down that "less used eastern part" of the Gardiner already?


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## Haljackey

Yes, the stub that was supposed to connect the Gardiner to the cancelled Scarborough Expressway was demolished. This was the span east of the Don Valley Parkway.

I actually think if they rebuilt this to a arterial similar to the Lincoln Highway / West Street in NYC it could look quite nice. I'd like to see pedestrian over/underpasses however or maybe even a pedestrian scramble.

Since this new road would be sort of expressway-like (very few or no buildings fronting onto it) it could carry its volumes semi-decently. The traffic that uses the Gardiner now would likely also disperse a bit as well, lessening the volume on the road.

-----

All things considered, this is a though issue that's been debated for decades. With the highway starting to crumble, a decision is needed soon as to what the fate of the Gardiner will be. 

Toronto has an election later this year, and I'm sure this will be a hot topic.


----------



## Kanadzie

Haljackey said:


> Toronto has an election later this year, and I'm sure this will be a hot topic.


Probably why Rob Ford will win again :banana:

I saw a proposal to run a highway along the hydro corridor to meet the 401, to approximate the cancelled Scarborough. Realistically downtown Toronto has very poor road access, especially from the East, the "Don Valley Parking Lot" being a consequence...


----------



## sonysnob

Innsertnamehere said:


> Its much better for the pedestrian as the replacement boulevard would be roughly 35 meters wide, enough for a crossing on a single light, compared to the current setup where it takes 2. Toronto's other 8 lane boulevard, University Avenue, is roughly 40 meters wide and can barely be crossed in a single signal. While not an ideal pedestrian situation, it is a far cry from the Gardiner.
> 
> 
> The problem with the current gardiner is the highway off ramps. Cars fly off of them going 80-90km/h and don't look for pedestrians at all at the bottom. I have nearly been hit a couple of times walking past a gardiner off ramp. The pillars from the gardiner also make it easy to not see a pedestrian when turning.
> 
> There is also the issue of general urbanism. the longest distance to cross both the gardiner and the rail corridor is over 170 meters right now, far too long in far too hostile of an environment to be a "nice" walk.
> The report states that emissions would drop with the at grade boulevard, largely because less cars would be using it.
> 
> The replacement would have 3 intersections, Cherry, Parliament, and Sherbourne. The current distance to walk under the Gardiner (and across the 6 lane Lakeshore road) are roughly 65, 45, and 100 meters, with all 3 requiring 2 light cycles to do. The new boulevard would be 35 meters wide, and as I mentioned, would take a single light signal to cross.
> 
> in general right now the Gardiner varies in width between 60-100 meters and does nothing but to serve the movement of vehicles, the exact opposite of what you want in the middle of the city.
> 
> The gardiner also largely serves a single purpose of getting cars downtown. There is very, very little "through" traffic. The cars that use this road get off in the city, so its not that big of a deal to have 2 or 3 additional blocks to travel. Most DVP traffic gets off at the Eastern Avenue overpass, the Gardiner traffic largely gets off at Spadina, etc. this is a grade seperated road that serves a local purpose, unlike the further west portions of the Gardiner or the DVP which serves to get people in and out of the core.


The pedestrian experience from the new Lakeshore Boulevard will not be drastically different from what exists now. It is extremely unlikely that pedestrians will be able to cross the new Lakeshore in a single phase. The traffic signals along Lakeshore will need to have a strong east-west bias in order to accommodate all of the vehicular traffic. It takes peds a long time to cross the street, and that movement in one phase will eat up too much of the signal phasing.

Correct me if I am wrong, but even the new traffic signals along Hwy 7 through Markham/Richmond Hill have two stage pedestrian crossings now.


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## Innsertnamehere

highway 7 is 40 meters wide, wider than this would be. the 35 meter width of the proposed street means you would probably need a roughly 20 second clearing for pedestrians to cross. if you did 30/60 second cycles or something similar you would be fine.


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## ChrisZwolle

Interesting interchange design in Calgary. It's the 201 / Crowchild Trail interchange.

trips by FabienA380, on Flickr


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## Kanadzie

It is like they had a large ROW and so decided an interchange design to use the largest amount of space possible


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## sonysnob

Innsertnamehere said:


> highway 7 is 40 meters wide, wider than this would be. the 35 meter width of the proposed street means you would probably need a roughly 20 second clearing for pedestrians to cross. if you did 30/60 second cycles or something similar you would be fine.


37m is what is proposed. And its a stretch to think that the the left turning movements from EB-NB could be accommodated with a single left turn lane, which probably means that the cross-section will be winder than what is shown. Not to mention that your signal phasing only works if there isn't a significant left turn phase, which also seems unlikely.

What is proposed is very similar to the intersection with Lakeshore East and Leslie Street, which functions very poorly during peak afternoon flow.

Even with the ramp configuration as shown, the "replace" option is by far the narrowest, and most pedestrian friendly.


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## ChrisZwolle

Highway 10 into Brampton / Mississauga.


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## Kanadzie

I guess that is Brampton under the clouds. Sauga is far far away  Mind you that tallest thing in the distance, might be one of the "dancing cokebottle" buildings in Mississauga


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## Innsertnamehere

I still don't like how they didn't upgrade highway 10 to a full freeway. Just built 5 lanes and called it a day.


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## Kanadzie

Innsertnamehere said:


> I still don't like how they didn't upgrade highway 10 to a full freeway. Just built 5 lanes and called it a day.


That 5 lane road (or really 4 lanes and appearing disappearing middle) is such a piece of crap I can't even imagine or explain how crappy that is :lol: Especially since you can't even pass on the middle lane either... and of course, OPP everywhere in the bushes and 80 km/h limit. 

So instead they need to keep dragging 410 north and north but meanwhile if they just did it properly in the 80's would be fine...

the amount of people still living up there is huge and crazy. Horrible commute :nuts:


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## sonysnob

I uploaded some pics of Hwy 10's southern cousin (the 410) earlier today:

http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/Hwy410_images.htm

From high atop the expressway from the Hwy 401 ramp:









Long Flyover:









Some signage:




































Central Views:


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## ChrisZwolle

*Alberta*

The Trans-Canada Highway near Banff, Alberta.


Scenic Route by njchow82, on Flickr


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## Innsertnamehere

now only if they could twin it between Calgary and Vancouver. Expensive, but I think it would be worth it, its the last real "missing link" of trans Canada twinning other than northern Ontario which quite frankly is so low volume that it isn't really worth it. but even then chunks of the busier portions of the northern Ontario stretch are getting upgraded.


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## MichiH

Innsertnamehere said:


> now only if they could twin it between Calgary and Vancouver. Expensive, but I think it would be worth it


Some sections are already u/c (I think near Revelstoke?). Do you know which sections are planned to be upgraded next (time schedule?)?


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## Kanadzie

MichiH said:


> Some sections are already u/c (I think near Revelstoke?). Do you know which sections are planned to be upgraded next (time schedule?)?


They keep going at it, piece by piece, 5 km or 10 km, but it's 1000 km to go :lol:

Mind you it is a lot better than it used to be, once you get to Kamloops the road is very good. But through the mountains the road is garbage (scenery beautiful though) and you will swear being stuck behind truck or worse, motorhome...


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## rafark

ChrisZwolle said:


>


Omg almost s**t my pants! It looks so long and thin, something like the wind could take away in a second. 

I'm scared. I'm sure it's safe, I just don't like long bridges.


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## sonysnob

ssiguy2 said:


> Those are great Banff shots and the gov has done an excellent job on animal overpasses.
> 
> As for Regina.............does a city of 200,000 need another bypass?


A few decades ago, the City sold all of the right of way it had reserved along SK-1 east of the by-pass for interchanges along the current alignment to developers. So, in order to convert the TCH to a freeway, some sort of new road alternative for the east side is required.


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## Kanadzie

rafark said:


> Omg almost s**t my pants! It looks so long and thin, something like the wind could take away in a second.
> 
> I'm scared. I'm sure it's safe, I just don't like long bridges.


Long bridge :lol: it is 13 kilometres like that over the water! :lol: And only 2 lanes, undivided, so don't crash anyone and then fall into the drink 

But it is safer than before, at least, maybe it will tip, but the old ferry, it could sink!


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## ChrisZwolle

*PTH-190, CentrePort Way, Winnipeg, MB*

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...being-extended-to-bypass-headingley-1.2567344

They are planning to extend the PTH-190 / CentrePort Canada Way from the Perimeter Highway to near Highway 26, bypassing a section of the Trans-Canada Highway. It also bypasses a railway crossing. The $ 150 million project should be completed in the next 5 years.


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## Kanadzie

It is amazing they built that huge interchange at the ring road for the Centreport Way, but mainline ring road at Hwy 59 has that absurd half-built piece of crap :lol:

They really seem to be aggressively developing the Centrport, but I can't imagine how it is supposed to work...


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## Innsertnamehere

Its Winnipeg, the word "interchange" doesn't exist.


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## ChrisZwolle

You mean "freeway"  They do have some cloverleafs.


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## Innsertnamehere

rafark said:


> Omg almost s**t my pants! It looks so long and thin, something like the wind could take away in a second.
> 
> I'm scared. I'm sure it's safe, I just don't like long bridges.


Its actually a fun bridge to drive over. its only 1 lane each way but is so long that it takes over 10 minutes to cross.. you just keep driving and driving along it with no end. 


The province of Ontario seems interested in extending the 417 beyond Arnprior, initially to at least Renfrew. This is VERY overdue if you ask me, its a two lane road with almost 15,000 AADT. Also one of the only highways in the province with a 90km/h speed limit that isn't limited access. Really the 417 needs to go to Petawawa if you ask me. They are already extending the highway 2km to Scheel drive, but its over 100km to Petawawa. Once the 400 extension to sudbury is finished I would love for this to be the next big 400 series highway expansion.

http://www.insideottawavalley.com/n...es-all-party-support-for-highway-17-twinning/


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## Innsertnamehere

a nice map of the highway expansions going on in Quebec: in a few years there will only be a single US border crossing with a freeway on the US side but no freeway on the Canadian side (I-75), though Canada also has a freeway running to a border crossing where the US doesn't have one (NB-1). This will be the third Freeway connection Canada has added to the US in the last decade.

Blue = Completed Autoroute
Yellow = Highway expansion
Grey = Generally means a dual carriageway without stoplights but at grade intersections, but one of the lines is simply a rural highway. Not really sure what it is meant to represent.


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## ChrisZwolle

*North Commuter Parkway, Saskatoon, SK*

The North Commuter Parkway Project is a planned "arterial road" along the northeastern side of Saskatoon.

Project website: http://www.saskatoon.ca/DEPARTMENTS...BRIDGEPROJECT/Pages/NorthCommuterParkway.aspx










They talk about an "arterial road", so it appears it won't be a freeway like Circle Drive. But they also talk about 40,000 - 50,000 vehicles per day in the future, so it would make sense to reserve space for a later upgrade to a controlled-access facility.


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## NFZANMNIM

Innsertnamehere said:


> a nice map of the highway expansions going on in Quebec: in a few years there will only be a single US border crossing with a freeway on the US side but no freeway on the Canadian side (I-75), though Canada also has a freeway running to a border crossing where the US doesn't have one (NB-1). This will be the third Freeway connection Canada has added to the US in the last decade.
> 
> Blue = Completed Autoroute
> Yellow = Highway expansion
> Grey = Generally means a dual carriageway without stoplights but at grade intersections, but one of the lines is simply a rural highway. Not really sure what it is meant to represent.


I-15 Montana connecting to Alberta???


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## ChrisZwolle

The Angus L. Macdonald Bridge in Halifax, Nova Scotia. It opened in 1955 and is tolled.


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## Innsertnamehere

NFZANMNIM said:


> I-15 Montana connecting to Alberta???


it meets up with Alberta 4, which while not technically a freeway is dual carriageway with minor connecting roads, and doesn't have a stoplight until it gets to Lethbridge 100km away.


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## Innsertnamehere

NFZANMNIM said:


> I-15 Montana connecting to Alberta???


it meets up with Alberta 4, which while not technically a freeway is dual carriageway and doesn't have a stoplight until it gets to Lethbridge 100km away. it is operationally a freeway as the intersecting roads are so low traffic. The speed limit is 110km/h.


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## NFZANMNIM

Well, it doesnt connect with Albertan Freeway network (ie Calgary)


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## Innsertnamehere

no, but, that wasn't my point. My point was that when you cross the border on a US freeway in all but 1 location you will be met with a freeway on the other side. The Albertan (and in general prairie provinces) highway network is generally very pockmarked anyway, they tend to build lots of dual carriageways but few city bypasses due to their high costs. They also very rarely build a full freeway, with only inner city highways and 2 regional roads being upgraded to that standard. (Alberta 2 from south of Calgary to Edmonton and Alberta 1 from Calgary to the BC border)


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## ChrisZwolle

Many of the twinned highways in the Prairie Provinces seem to function like at-grade freeways. 

It seems the speed limit isn't even reduced at minor intersections. Which means you can blast across unsignalized intersections at 110 km/h in Saskatchewan.


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## Kanadzie

that is correct, I'm not sure if I've ever seen a speed reduction at those kind of intersection (but many go down to 80 if there is a traffic light!)

but the intersections aren't exactly unsignalled, STOP signs on the minor road.

Many of those roads have such low traffic volumes they are effectively grade separated (like AADT of 2, one guy going to work and then coming home :lol You'd never see something like three cars waiting to turn left onto the minor road.


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## Haljackey

I just noticed that work on the West Durham Link is visible in Google Earth. It will be a toll highway that will connect Highway 401 to Highway 407E (also tolled).










Coordinates: https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.8666573,-78.9762609,1724m/data=!3m1!1e3


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## Haljackey

Here is a video I made showing progress on the Rt. Hon. Herb Gray Parkway, which will connect to a new US/Canada border crossing when complete.






Compare to a year ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7LSnG-1VCk


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## Haljackey

I have never driven the 401 through Toronto in it's entirety. I thought Easter Sunday would be a nice day for a drive as traffic volumes on the road would be lighter. It was still very busy but I was able to record the entire stretch over 6 lanes!


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## Innsertnamehere

so the Liberals are pretty adamant about the complete twinning of highway 17 in Ontario, that is almost 2,000km of highway. From my understanding some of it would be built to freeway standards and some not, but I think much of it really isn't needed. portions of the road drop below 2,000 AADT. around 1,000km is above 5,000 and could probably be excusable for twinning, but there are still a lot of sections that would probably be better off by introducing a constant passing lane (3 lanes wide at all times, alternating which direction gets the passing lane), banning passing by overtaking, and introducing rumble strips between direction of travel. Sections such as Sault Ste. Marie to Thunder Bay go through extremely difficult terrain and have AADT levels hovering around the 2,000 mark.. I just don't see it being worth it. I say twin it from Ottawa to Deep River, Mattawa to Sault Ste. Marie, Nipigon to the 11/17 split west of Thunder Bay, and Dryden to the Manitoba border. Do some smaller twinnings in the North as well such as 61 from Thunder Bay to the US border (and push the US for an I-35 extension), an I-75 connector in Sault Ste. Marie, 101 outside of Timmins, and 11 from Latchford to highway 112.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I follow this Canadian trucker on Youtube who is always complaining about the untwinned Trans-Canada in Northern Ontario. Apparently the road is frequently blocked due to accidents.


----------



## Kanadzie

the AADT readings are screwy because of the summer peak. 

Driving on the road frankly sucks and it has a lot of deadly accidents. 3 lane roads always end up dangerous, and rumble strips are (as far as I know) shown more dangerous than none at all on undivided roads... they put that shit on the western part of the road and it's a PITA to pass.

And passing restriction is one of the dangerous parts of the road, it's hard to get passing opportunities, so you need to pass in a dangerous way often. Especially now that trucks have the 105 km/h speed limiter, it's worse than before.

Probably a realistic way forward would be some 4 lane bypasses of the towns to give a dual savings of passing opportunity and save the traffic, IMO.

Banning overtaking would just be insane, people would end up crashing into trees just to suicide after a couple hours of that living hell :lol:


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## Innsertnamehere

I thought the speed limiters were removed because they were deemed unconstitutional?

If you had a passing lane every 2-3km, you wouldn't get frustrated with not being able to pass. You would be behind them for a minute or two at most.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Innsertnamehere said:


> I thought the speed limiters were removed because they were deemed unconstitutional?


The speed limiters became mandatory in 2009, and then deemed unconstitutional in 2012, but I haven't read about what happened after that.

The MTO still has the speed limit section on its website:
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/trucks/trucklimits.shtml


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Construction photos of the 407 east highway project just outside of Toronto. When completed in 2020 (with two phased openings in 2015 and 2017), it will be a 44km mainline running from the current 407 terminus to highway 35, with two 10km connector highways down to the 401 between Ajax and Whitby and just east of Oshawa. The first phase (the part opening in 2015) has been under construction for a while now, and the second phase (opening in 2017 and 2020) had its contract awarded last week. This will complete the 407, a tolled bypass of Toronto that has been planned since the 1960's. The first portion, a 105km mainline was completed in 1997.










photos by Sonysnob at SSP


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## Innsertnamehere

The 404 extension to the north of Toronto. Scheduled to open in September, the highway is fast approaching completion. a 14km long project, it will be paved with concrete which is a rare feature in Ontario highways. It is notable however that most new highways in the last few years around the GTA have been concrete.











Images by Sonysnob at SSP


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## Kanadzie

it's so curious to see both EDL and WDL being built so close, especially considering the paucity of the GTA's freeway network.

404 extension is also nice, it also lives up to its name (404 yeggog code since it goes nowhere ) I wonder when they will make a nice link to Hwy 400...


----------



## NFZANMNIM

They won't build a connection to highway 400, at least not a direct one
The highway would then turn east toward highway 12


----------



## Innsertnamehere

the 404 is actually the third busiest highway in the city, reaching just over 300,000 AADT just to the north of the 401 (its behind the 401 and the 427), on an 8+2 HOV highway. its above 20,000 AADT for its entire length.

There is also a planned "Bradford bypass" that will connect the two highways, but my understanding is that any further extensions in the area are currently off the table to discourage sprawl. The only possible future expansion at this point is a widening of the 400, MTO wants to see it 8+2 HOV all the way to Barrie.


----------



## Haljackey

Interesting comparison between Canadian and US interchange sizes by Sonysnob at SSP



sonysnob said:


> There are a number of reasons why we don't built Texas-esque style interchanges in Canada.
> 
> As others have mentioned, the largest reason is probably winter maintenance. Structures require a lot more preventive maintenance in northern climates than they do southern. Not only does this maintenance carry significant monetary costs, but it also has significant traffic impacts. Look at the delays that have been caused just from the single lane closure of the ramp from the eastbound 401 to the northbound 427.
> 
> For Houston in particular, Houston is quite flat, so it is impractical to bring large quantities of earth in for fill, as there is simply not a lot of land that they can borrow from. Trucking earth is an expensive proposition. You can see this in Ontario as well, the grade separations along the 417 between Ottawa and Cassleman tend to be elongated in order to minimize the amount of fill that was brought in for the bridge approaches.
> 
> https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.349373,-75.444604,3a,75y,270.78h,78.98t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sW8v81HYu8mTr88jxMMsg3w!2e0
> 
> The final reason is drivability. In places where the ground doesn't freeze you can build sharper curves with greater super-elevation than you can anywhere in Canada. In Texas, for example, curves can be super-elevated upwards of 8%, where as here we generally limit ourselves to using less than 6. Furthermore there is also the reality, that bridge decks will freeze before other sections of road, which is further incentive not to build long bridges with sharp curves.
> 
> One thing that should be noted, is that despite their massive appearance, interchanges in Texas often have a much smaller footprint than their Canadian counterparts:
> 
> High 5 interchange in Dallas:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 400 and 407, same scale:


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=190293&page=127


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## ChrisZwolle

Stacks generally have the smallest footprint over other interchange types like turbines and full cloverleafs (with C/D lanes and decent designed loops).

Toronto's freeway network is incredibly busy. There are no freeways with less than 100,000 vehicles per day within the built-up area. The interchanges too are huge, especially the 401/427 and 401/403/410 interchanges. 

I'm wondering about the 401/404/DVP interchange. It doesn't look too well-designed for the very high traffic counts that occur there.


----------



## Haljackey

All the 401 major interchanges in the Toronto area have some kind of design flaw:

(from west to east)

The 407ETR interchange is fine right now, but the proposed extension of the 401's collector-express system through Mississauga west to Milton cannot fit under this interchange as the overpasses are not long enough.
-Replacing the overpasses is not a popular idea as they are relatively new and the construction period will cause delays on the ETR, something the operators are protesting. An idea is to merge the collector and express lanes together through the interchange before expanding again west of it. This will also provide a transfer point but also a lot of weaving.

The 403/410 interchange does not have connections from the 403NB to 401 WB or 401 EB to 403SB, but these connections were designed in mind when the interchange was built and are now planned.
-Another issue is that there are no connections from the 401 express lanes to the 410. This means anyone who wants to access the 410 has to use the collectors and backup can occur, especially on the EB collectors.

The 427 interchange represents the biggest bottleneck on the 401 as the road narrows from 18 to 8 through lanes. There is no easy way to fix/retrofit it either.

The 409 interchange is another choke point as this is where the collector-express starts/ends. 
-It wouldn't be an impossible task to extend the C/E system from the 409 to the 427, having the collectors end as ramps to the 427.

The 400 interchange simply does not have the capacity to move the volume it handles well. It has been on the MTO's wish list for a long time to rebuild, but the cost and construction delays are a major factor why it isn't being done anytime soon. 
-Like the 410, the 400 can only be accessed by the collector lanes (WB only though thankfully).

The 404/Don Valley Parkway interchange is particularly annoying for anyone who is going from the 404 to DVP, or vice versa. They are essentially staying on the same highway. There are only two lanes in each direction that actually carry through the interchange and can cause a lot of delays.
-There isn't really an easy fix but a the leader of the Ontario's Progressive Conservative (not currently in power) wants to widen the Don Valley Parkway, and I would assume this interchange would be expanded as part of this plan.


----------



## smokiboy

So in this planned phase of construction the 407 will link up with 115, is that right? Are there plans to eventually link up with 7/417 towards Ottawa?


----------



## Kanadzie

ChrisZwolle said:


> I'm wondering about the 401/404/DVP interchange. It doesn't look too well-designed for the very high traffic counts that occur there.


It's funny, whenever I wake up in the GTA, all you hear is "four oh four don valley" maybe 10 or 20 times before you actually get awake, dressed and arrive at work, and I'm usually on the complete other side of town :lol: All you want to do is smash the alarm radio


----------



## smokiboy

BTW, there was talk recently about a 400 series highway roughly along the north shore of Lake Erie from Fort Eire, but where would it connect to the 401? Would it link directly to 402 or south of St. Thomas?


----------



## Innsertnamehere

ChrisZwolle said:


> I'm wondering about the 401/404/DVP interchange. It doesn't look too well-designed for the very high traffic counts that occur there.


It's horrible, constant backups. The 404 goes from a 4+HOV highway to 2 lanes over the 401. More of the 404 traffic probably turns onto the 401 than goes onto the DVP, but still. There is some form of congestion at the interchange at almost all times of day. I usually only go through it on the GO bus, which gets to use the HOV lanes which save a bunch of time. Even then we still have to go through around half of it. Its painful to be sitting in traffic going southbound at 1pm.

bringing the express-collectors system past the 407 interchange is stupid anyway and isn't needed. maybe build out a 4+HOV system to Milton then a 3+HOV to Kitchener. the proposed HSR should remove a ton of pressure on the highway anyway. 

Widening the DVP beyond adding HOV lanes (I'd be fine if you wanted to build a 3+HOV system to Don Mills) is stupid as well, but fixing that interchange should be done. Adding a single lane shouldn't be too big of an issue and it would fix the unnecessary issues mid day.


----------



## geogregor

I see that most of the discussion in this thread is about Ontario roads.
However I have question about Autorute 85 towards the New Brunswick border. Is there any construction ongoing at the moment?

On the OpenStreetMap there are some sections marked as under construction with 2014 opening date.
Where can I find more information? Maybe some pictures?


----------



## Kanadzie

The DVP could use major lane additions all the way along but it would be expensive. They really need to look at putting some kind of Gardiner - 401 link more east than the DVP like the dead "Scarborough Expwy". There was a proposal to run something along the hydro corridor instead, that would be interesting. The DVP has spectacular scenery but the traffic load is just soul destroying.



geogregor said:


> I see that most of the discussion in this thread is about Ontario roads.
> However I have question about Autorute 85 towards the New Brunswick border. Is there any construction ongoing at the moment?
> 
> On the OpenStreetMap there are some sections marked as under construction with 2014 opening date.
> Where can I find more information? Maybe some pictures?


On the website of the minster of Transports!
-> https://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/portal/page/portal/grands_projets/trouver_grand_projet/reamenagement_r185 (try google translate, they are too lazy to give us English )

I am not sure if there is much advancement other than some pieces put into use (like around Degelis) so far, there have been some delays and a new government (who will probably continue work, but it might go some time longer)


----------



## Innsertnamehere

all portions of the highway are currently under construction I believe. Once complete in 2015 you will be able to drive from Halifax to Windsor on a continuous freeway. Couple with some more major expansion of highway twinning in Northern Ontario, a huge portion of Trans Canada twinning will finally be complete.

there are talks of a mid peninsula highway as well, but it has been generally disregarded as not needed, with them instead deciding to try and move forward with some form of widening of the QEW and running a parallel high quality train service to divert travellers. A prominent provincial politician is promising to build it, but it runs through several extremely sensitive environmental areas and has been renounced as the exact opposite of a sort of highway we should be planning for in the province today.


----------



## sonysnob

ChrisZwolle said:


> Stacks generally have the smallest footprint over other interchange types like turbines and full cloverleafs (with C/D lanes and decent designed loops).
> 
> Toronto's freeway network is incredibly busy. There are no freeways with less than 100,000 vehicles per day within the built-up area. The interchanges too are huge, especially the 401/427 and 401/403/410 interchanges.
> 
> I'm wondering about the 401/404/DVP interchange. It doesn't look too well-designed for the very high traffic counts that occur there.


The 404/DVP interchange definitely handles way more traffic than it was ever intended to:









This is looking southbound from Finch Avenue on the 404, about 3km north of the 401/DVP interchange, during the PM peak period. (So this is reverse, inbound congestion).


----------



## Kanadzie

Innsertnamehere said:


> all portions of the highway are currently under construction I believe. Once complete in 2015 you will be able to drive from Halifax to Windsor on a continuous freeway. Couple with some more major expansion of highway twinning in Northern Ontario, a huge portion of Trans Canada twinning will finally be complete.
> 
> there are talks of a mid peninsula highway as well, but it has been generally disregarded as not needed, with them instead deciding to try and move forward with some form of widening of the QEW and running a parallel high quality train service to divert travellers. A prominent provincial politician is promising to build it, but it runs through several extremely sensitive environmental areas and has been renounced as the exact opposite of a sort of highway we should be planning for in the province today.


I thought the reason for Mid-Pen was the environmentally sensitive bottom of escarpment (where QEW is) making widening harder than up on top?


----------



## Innsertnamehere

the problem with the mid pen is getting it through the Niagara Escarpment, which as you can see with the existing 403 is no easy feat. (it would have to travel through it in the same rough area that the 403 does today) The QEW doesn't go through the Niagara Escarpment, and therefor is less damaging of that.

There has been some very strong protection legislation introduced to protect the escarpment as well, making it extremely difficult to build. Mind you the politician who wants to build it also wants to repeal that legislation (as well as a whole bunch of other ones aimed at reducing sprawl and protecting the watersheds that feed the GTA), but still. Widening the QEW is a much more environmentally friendly option that has only slightly lower benefits.

regardless the QEW is far from being over capacity currently anyway, so it is a rather pointless discussion. Even in peak times traffic rarely slows down. (on the portion that the Mid Pen would effect, at least)


----------



## sonysnob

Innsertnamehere said:


> regardless the QEW is far from being over capacity currently anyway, so it is a rather pointless discussion. Even in peak times traffic rarely slows down. (on the portion that the Mid Pen would effect, at least)


Drive to Niagara Falls on a weekend in the summer and tell me that the QEW isn't near capacity.

The MidPen itself doesn't really run through any environmentally sensitive areas through either Hamilton or Niagara. It's the proposed connection to either the 401 or 407 that has everybody up in arms, as any such connection would have to run through the Dundas Valley. Some sort of Hamilton bypass for the 403 has, however, been identified as an important transportation link by various studies commissioned from the government.

One of the objectives of the MidPen is to spur economic development into the southern portion of Niagara Region, an area that currently has an above average unemployment rate, and could use the investment. An offshoot from this is that some of the economic development spurred into the southern portion of the region might alleviate some of the development pressure along the QEW corridor that is continuing to threaten the fruit growing region.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

if you build it without connecting it to the 407 or 401 it will do little other than encourage sprawl, (or as you put it, economic development) as it would connect no major routes. Most traffic would still have to use the QEW. widening the QEW to 4 lanes from the skyway out to the edges of Stoney Creek is probably the best solution, and a whole lot cheaper than a 100km new build highway.

Its the same thing with the proposed extension of the 427 to Barrie, simply widening the 400 is a much better solution.


----------



## geogregor

Innsertnamehere said:


> all portions of the highway are currently under construction I believe. Once complete in 2015 you will be able to drive from Halifax to Windsor on a continuous freeway. Couple with some more major expansion of highway twinning in Northern Ontario, a huge portion of Trans Canada twinning will finally be complete.
> 
> there are talks of a mid peninsula highway as well, but it has been generally disregarded as not needed, with them instead deciding to try and move forward with some form of widening of the QEW and running a parallel high quality train service to divert travellers. A prominent provincial politician is promising to build it, but it runs through several extremely sensitive environmental areas and has been renounced as the exact opposite of a sort of highway we should be planning for in the province today.





Kanadzie said:


> The DVP could use major lane additions all the way along but it would be expensive. They really need to look at putting some kind of Gardiner - 401 link more east than the DVP like the dead "Scarborough Expwy". There was a proposal to run something along the hydro corridor instead, that would be interesting. The DVP has spectacular scenery but the traffic load is just soul destroying.
> 
> 
> 
> On the website of the minster of Transports!
> -> https://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/portal/page/portal/grands_projets/trouver_grand_projet/reamenagement_r185 (try google translate, they are too lazy to give us English )
> 
> I am not sure if there is much advancement other than some pieces put into use (like around Degelis) so far, there have been some delays and a new government (who will probably continue work, but it might go some time longer)


Thanks guys.
I did check the minster of Transports website as well as did some other searches.
So it seem that all the missing stretches between Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha! (BTW what a fantastic name) and New Brunswick border are currently under construction and set to open no later than 2015.

However it still leaves 40km between Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha! and Saint Antonin.
Any ideas when this goes under construction? I think they have all the needed permits, all is needed is some cash. Terrain there doesn't look to be particularly challenging. 
How about the land? Does the state (either feds or province) own the needed right of way or do they have to buy it from the private landowners?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kanadzie said:


> The DVP could use major lane additions all the way along but it would be expensive.


The freeways into the CBD of Toronto have interesting traffic flows. While it is often thought that traffic increases closer to the CBD, Toronto has the opposite, traffic counts drop at every exit closer to the CBD. 

For example the DVP carries approximately 100,000 near the CBD, but gradually increases to 180,000 vpd at the 401 interchange. The same occurs at the Gardiner Expressway, which carries 112,000 vpd at Parliament, but gradually increases to 228,000 vpd at the QEW.


----------



## Haljackey

smokiboy said:


> BTW, there was talk recently about a 400 series highway roughly along the north shore of Lake Erie from Fort Eire, but where would it connect to the 401? Would it link directly to 402 or south of St. Thomas?


I don't believe so.

I think you may be getting this confused with the proposed Mid-Peninsula highway. This will run from Fort Erie run in the middle of the Niagara peninsula (hence it's name) to Hamilton before turning to encircle Greater Toronto. If ever built, it will likely be tolled.

As others have said, it is a very controversial project and it runs through some environmentally-sensitive areas and some of Canada's best farmland. The Ontario Progressive Conservative Party wants to built it to at least Hamilton, but again as others have said it would be much easier to widen the Queen Elizabeth Way instead.



Innsertnamehere said:


> bringing the express-collectors system past the 407 interchange is stupid anyway and isn't needed. maybe build out a 4+HOV system to Milton then a 3+HOV to Kitchener. the proposed HSR should remove a ton of pressure on the highway anyway.


I agree. Having them start at the 407ETR interchange is a good place, with a 8+2HOV cross section running from the 407ETR to Highway 8 in Kitchener. 
-Through Milton, you could have a short collector-distributor cross section for local traffic but that is a little overkill in my opinion.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

ChrisZwolle said:


> The freeways into the CBD of Toronto have interesting traffic flows. While it is often thought that traffic increases closer to the CBD, Toronto has the opposite, traffic counts drop at every exit closer to the CBD.
> 
> For example the DVP carries approximately 100,000 near the CBD, but gradually increases to 180,000 vpd at the 401 interchange. The same occurs at the Gardiner Expressway, which carries 112,000 vpd at Parliament, but gradually increases to 228,000 vpd at the QEW.


its because the vast majority of trips made into the downtown are on transit, there isn't much demand for car based access. There is much more demand for exiting the Downtown however, as there are lots of people living downtown but working in the suburbs where there are very weak transit connections, necessitating car trips. "counter peak" is just as bad if not worse than peak directions feeding into downtown because of this. 

There is also lots of car based office space along the Northern portion of the DVP, after Eglinton the highway essentially becomes an express route into downtown, where transit modal shares jump dramatically. The demand to access those northern interchanges to get to the employment and suburban residential areas is higher than demand to get downtown due to the much worse modal splits.


----------



## Kanadzie

Thinking of the QEW, I don't know why they have that screwy service road design, especially past the skyway where they go under the minor overpasses. It would seem they could change them to 1-way service roads passing under all interchanges somewhat like the service roads in Quebec (kind of cheap-bastard collector-express system) and get a huge boost in capacity for very little asphalt.

The road needs major capacity increases though, all the way to Niagara Region it is farked every day, and the rest is basically at capacity while the GTA keeps growing very rapidly, it's the kind of time where real solutions need to be planned for (like the 407 was in like the 1970's at least)



geogregor said:


> Thanks guys.
> I did check the minster of Transports website as well as did some other searches.
> So it seem that all the missing stretches between Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha! (BTW what a fantastic name) and New Brunswick border are currently under construction and set to open no later than 2015.
> 
> However it still leaves 40km between Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha! and Saint Antonin.
> Any ideas when this goes under construction? I think they have all the needed permits, all is needed is some cash. Terrain there doesn't look to be particularly challenging.
> How about the land? Does the state (either feds or province) own the needed right of way or do they have to buy it from the private landowners?


I think most land is provincially owned but they have had to buy private land as well. For some reason they are trying very hard to keep as much of the original R-185 (old name before 1980's - Route 2) corridor, probably because of the "environmental impact", so there are some extra costs for land and more complicated designs to keep less ROW.

I'm not sure when they're going to start building a new section. Right now there are a lot of problems, as you say:
1. Province has no money, and what little there is, there is huge demand for road projects (very expensive collapsing interchanges in Montreal area for example)
2. New government has not revealed its priorities yet
3. There is currently a _huge _corruption scandal in Quebec in regards to mostly road construction ("Charbonneau Commission") and nobody wants to issue contracts right now...


----------



## Innsertnamehere

my understanding is that A-85 will be done to the New Brunswick border by late 2015..


----------



## geogregor

Innsertnamehere said:


> my understanding is that A-85 will be done to the New Brunswick border by late 2015..


If that is the case there should be already movement on the stretch between Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha! and Saint Antonin.
I couldn't find any info about construction starting on that bit.

Oh, and about this collapsing interchanges in Montreal, did works started already?


----------



## Kanadzie

in regards to Turcot interchange, there's constant work (24 h more or less) to keep the interchange from falling down, and some light earthworks for the new one, and one overpass in middle of nowhere completed (should be connected to a road in 2017 or so)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Regina Bypass*

*Governments of Canada and Saskatchewan Contribute up to $200 Million to the Completion of the Regina Bypass Project*

On behalf of Finance Minister Joe Oliver, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food and Member of Parliament for Battlefords–Lloydminster Gerry Ritz today announced the Government of Canada’s investment of up to $200 million in a public-private partnership (P3) to support the construction of the Regina Bypass. The Minister was joined at the event by the Honourable Don McMorris, Minister of Highways and Infrastructure and Minister Responsible for SaskBuilds for the Province of Saskatchewan.

The Bypass plan will feature new roads, service roads and overpasses that will make travelling around Regina faster and safer. By using a P3 model, the Regina Bypass is anticipated to take only three-and-a-half years to construct, with priority components opening in advance of the full bypass completion. The use of the P3 model will also improve cost-effectiveness, ensure timely completion, provide budget certainty, and allow scope for private sector innovation.​


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Detroit - Windsor Bridge*

* Why Detroit-Windsor bridge could become Canada’s white elephant *

At issue is the long-planned, and even longer-discussed, new bridge linking Windsor and Detroit – one of the busiest border crossings in the world. The whole project is slated to cost $3.4-billion.

But all of it – the span, a Canadian customs plaza and highway links on both sides of the border – could become the largest white elephant in Canadian history.​
Whole article: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ecome-canadas-white-elephant/article18454586/

I have my doubts whether this project is feasible. The cost is too high in comparison to the benefits. I've heard that truckers prefer the border crossing at Sarnia. 

The Ambassador Bridge is not particularly busy with approximately 20,000 vehicles per day. The main problem appears to be the adjacent route through Windsor. There is no freeway connecting to the Ambassador Bridge in Windsor. But $ 3.4 billion is a very expensive bypass.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^My guess (just a guess) is that truckers prefer the Sarnia crossing because of the lack of freeways in Windsor. This new bypass is supposed to do what, connect the 401 to I-75 south of Detroit? That's not useless at all for people who are heading south or even southwest rather than west....

(And did you forget about the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel? I'd think the traffic counts for that as well as the Ambassador would be more relevant than the Ambassador alone.)


----------



## Haljackey

The Windsor-Essex Parkway / Right Honourable Herb Gray Parkway / 401 extension through Windsor is Ontario's most expensive highway project ever. They would have not have built this if there wasn't a reason to (or would they :nuts.

If the new bridge is ultimately cancelled (which I doubt because Canada is paying 100% for the bridge, but gets 100% of the toll revenue to help pay for it), then that will be one of the most expensive roads to nowhere in human history.

---

The other thing is politics. The Ambassador bridge is privately owned by a man many people and politicians hate. This new bridge will be owned by the government and is a big 'screw you' to him.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Haljackey said:


> Ontario's most expensive highway project ever.


Claims like that are often made in the media, but have little meaning because they compare unadjusted costs. You can't compare the cost of a project today with a project in the 1960s. 

Furthermore, the cost of PPP projects, or "P3s" cannot be compared to traditional funding because they are often long-term contracts, sometimes as much as 30 years of maintenance, so the contract values are much larger than before. It's like comparing the cost of a new car alone to the cost of a car, plus maintenance, fuel and taxes over a 10-year period.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

The Windsor Essex parkway has insane design standards as well, with multiple "tunnels" and stuff that isn't really needed and rack up costs.

The $3.4 billion includes a new 9km 6 lane freeway, the new ~1.2km bridge (must be extremely tall to allow for shipping however), and the connection to the I-75. All with extensive urban expropriation on both sides of the border. Border plaza costs are insane as well because of the stupidly large amount of security theatre going on in them.. I mean the US plaza is going to cost a quarter of a billion dollars alone.


----------



## Kanadzie

Haljackey said:


> The other thing is politics. The Ambassador bridge is privately owned by a man many people and politicians hate. This new bridge will be owned by the government and is a big 'screw you' to him.


I hate to defend Moroun but he has a certain point. It seems the Canadian government in particular is out to screw him for some reason. Wasn't he proposing to build a second span anyway?

Furthermore the whole problem in the area isn't road capacity on the bridge but delays because of the border checkpoint (which should simply be removed) and to a considerably lesser extent, surface streets in Windsor.

Why are we spending billions when really all that is needed is a couple of overpasses and to just knock down the border huts?


----------



## Haljackey

U.S. Homeland Security is doing just the opposite, it is getting more and more restrictive. 

Going through Canadian customs is relatively easy most of the time. As long as you have a valid passport and you're not transporting any firearms, it will take you less than a minute to clear security.

U.S. customs is an entirely different story. I'm already getting off topic so I won't go into details here.

-----

Regarding a second span at the Ambassador complex, I don't think it amounted to anything concrete. It was merely a poly by the owner (Matty Moroun) to try to convince to be on his side. He has also hired people to shoot down the new government-owned crossing.

The Daily Show did a funny bit on it a while ago. It pretty much sums up everything.

https://showyou.com/v/h-7WwyLTOHM7SwcdtA/bridge-to-canada

:lol:


----------



## Innsertnamehere

This illustrates the project fairly clearly: It really shows how substandard the connecting route on the Canadian side is right now.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's basically $ 800 million for a border crossing facility. Man I'm glad we don't have to waste that kind of money in Europe due to the Schengen treaty. Imagine how much it would cost to construct 200+ of them.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Haljackey said:


> U.S. Homeland Security is doing just the opposite, it is getting more and more restrictive.
> 
> Going through Canadian customs is relatively easy most of the time. As long as you have a valid passport and you're not transporting any firearms, it will take you less than a minute to clear security.
> 
> U.S. customs is an entirely different story. I'm already getting off topic so I won't go into details here.
> 
> -----
> 
> Regarding a second span at the Ambassador complex, I don't think it amounted to anything concrete. It was merely a poly by the owner (Matty Moroun) to try to convince to be on his side. He has also hired people to shoot down the new government-owned crossing.
> 
> The Daily Show did a funny bit on it a while ago. It pretty much sums up everything.
> 
> https://showyou.com/v/h-7WwyLTOHM7SwcdtA/bridge-to-canada
> 
> :lol:


Actually, I found U.S. and Canadian customs comparable, and both a bit annoying, my last trip (last September/October). And while the time spent at the actual customs booth may be less than a minute, it took 20 minutes to get to the booth at the I-87/A-15 crossing (going north).



Innsertnamehere said:


> This illustrates the project fairly clearly: It really shows how substandard the connecting route on the Canadian side is right now.


Gosh! Those border plazas are enormous.

Is that the project? I was visualizing something considerably farther south - basically starting at the west end of the 401 and continuing west until you hit 75 in suburbs south of Detroit. So you get a shortcut for people traveling between London and Toledo.

Would such a bypass be feasible, more reasonable, less expensive, and so on, and has it been proposed?


----------



## Penn's Woods

Kanadzie said:


> ....Furthermore the whole problem in the area isn't road capacity on the bridge but delays because of the border checkpoint (which should simply be removed) and to a considerably lesser extent, surface streets in Windsor.
> 
> Why are we spending billions when really all that is needed is a couple of overpasses and to just knock down the border huts?





ChrisZwolle said:


> That's basically $ 800 million for a border crossing facility. Man I'm glad we don't have to waste that kind of money in Europe due to the Schengen treaty. Imagine how much it would cost to construct 200+ of them.


Indeed. Border controls between the U.S. and Canada do seem a bit silly in this day and age. But I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## Kanadzie

Penn's Woods said:


> Actually, I found U.S. and Canadian customs comparable, and both a bit annoying, my last trip (last September/October). And while the time spent at the actual customs booth may be less than a minute, it took 20 minutes to get to the booth at the I-87/A-15 crossing (going north).


if you are travelling at a peak season, avoid that damn Lacolle, try one of the smaller ones, Mooers / Hemmingford (via NY 22 and Quebec Route 219) is a nice bypass.


----------



## Penn's Woods

I wanted to stop at the Quebec welcome center ("centre," I guess). It was late afternoon the last Friday in September. Breezed up 87, traffic very light...then the wait at customs. Got into the welcome centre about 15 minutes before it closed.


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## Kanadzie

I once entered Canada with a trailer, and declared what I had, the guy gave me a pink slip to hand at the office (to pay tax), I had only seen yellow ones before, so thought the pink was curious. as I pulled up to the office a friggin swat team swarms me with guns and everything, looking all over my stuff. I was like, what the hell...


----------



## sonysnob

Finally starting to make use out of the full colour display boards:


----------



## isaidso

ChrisZwolle said:


> That's basically $ 800 million for a border crossing facility.


When you have $700 million in goods crossing between Ontario and Michigan each day, the best infrastructure possible is essential. Exports are the life line of the Ontario/Quebec economy. Investing in this is crucial to the long term health of our economy.

Would the Netherlands be nearly as prosperous if the Port of Rotterdam was inefficient and a huge bottleneck?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

But what buys $ 800 million in facilities that say $ 200 million doesn't buy? The figure seems so awful high to me.


----------



## sonysnob

^ The price tag is definitely significant. This is definitely the Cadillac of infrastructure projects, as personally, I think it probably should be. This is a legacy project that will be good for both economies, and is the type of project that it is worth doing it right the first time. It may be possible to build smaller and less expensive customs facilities for the near term, however, if the customs facilities become landlocked by the cities that surround them, it becomes even more disruptive and expensive to fix later.


----------



## Haljackey

I agree. The Ambassador bridge may only carry 20,000 AADT but it can still get chronically congested due to the border checkpoints. Having larger plazas should help disperse traffic more, helping it flow a little better. 
-While 20k doesn't sound busy, it can be when it holds up billions of dollars of commerce.

I've been on that bridge for over 3 hours and the Blue Water Bridge for over 2 hours. 
-The improvements at the Blue Water crossing have helped separate traffic flows and that's what the new crossing will do here. The westbound 402 through Sarnia also has a lane strictly for local traffic so the highway can still be used during long backups.

I think the new bridge will be 3 lanes each way so that gives one lane for trucks, one lane for cars with Nexus (express) cards and one lane for everyone else. The Ambassador bridge only has 2 lanes each way which means these traffic flows are not as evenly dispersed.


----------



## Ukraine

QEW in Etobicoke
IMG_2750 by FollowFiend, on Flickr

IMG_3025 by FollowFiend, on Flickr

IMG_3031 by FollowFiend, on Flickr


----------



## sonysnob

I have compiled a page of photos of the new Highway 404 extension that I took a couple of weeks ago (Scroll to the bottom):

http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/Hwy404_RavenshoeExtn_images.htm

The page shows a pretty complete look at the northern contract for the completion of the 404 extension. There are two construction contracts for the extension of the 404, the southern is from Green Lane, the current northern terminus of the 404, northerly to Queensville Sideroad, the northern contact covers the remainder of the highway to Woodbine Avenue. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get any photos of the southern contract as it was a weekday and there was simply too much construction activity ongoing to start walking around with my camera.

I have also uploaded a handful of photos that were taken of the construction project during the spring of 2013, that I never got around to updating.


----------



## Calvin W

isaidso said:


> When you have $700 million in goods crossing between Ontario and Michigan each day, the best infrastructure possible is essential. Exports are the life line of the Ontario/Quebec economy. Investing in this is crucial to the long term health of our economy.
> 
> Would the Netherlands be nearly as prosperous if the Port of Rotterdam was inefficient and a huge bottleneck?


So taxes on those goods crossing the border can pay for the border crossing upgrades.


----------



## Blackraven

Ukraine said:


> QEW in Etobicoke
> IMG_2750 by FollowFiend, on Flickr


Wow no traffic. Nice 

FULL SPEED AHEAD :banana:


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## Haljackey

Blackraven said:


> Wow no traffic. Nice
> 
> FULL SPEED AHEAD :banana:


Maximum 90km/h icard:


----------



## Kanadzie

LOL like you can ever realistically see that road so empty, I call Photoshop! :lol:

The 90 km/h really sucks though, if you get caught at 140 km/h there (the unofficial GTA cruising speed) you will get really butthurt.


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## ssiguy2

Thanks, great ride!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Saskatchewan*

*SPEED REDUCTIONS SET FOR TWO HIGH COLLISION HIGHWAYS
*

The provincial government is taking steps to improve safety along Highway 1 East of Regina and Highway 12 at Martensville. 

Effective today, the speed limit at these two locations will be reduced to 90 km/hr as a pilot project. The new speed limit is in effect on Highway 1 from the Pilot Butte Access to just east of the Highway 48 junction and from about two kilometres south to one kilometre north of Main Street on Highway 12.

The reduced speed limit is being introduced as a pilot. The Ministry of Highways and Infrastructure will closely monitor the impact on traffic safety. If the results of the pilot are positive, other locations on the provincial highway system may be considered for a reduced speed limit.

Three overpasses will also be built along Highway 1 East as part of the Regina Bypass Project. The Ministry of Highways and Infrastructure has also identified the location for a future overpass at Martensville.​
Full press release: http://www.saskatchewan.ca/government/news-and-media/2014/june/03/speed-reductions-set

I took a look at this highway on Google Street View. It looks pretty much like an at-grade freeway, it's a divided highway with a wide median, with paved shoulders and a straight alignment. 110 km/h through at-grade intersections may be a bit high if there's more traffic. Evidently they do plan to build interchanges there.


----------



## Kanadzie

It is kind of sad that policies which consistently fail keep getting brought up again as a "trial"


----------



## sonysnob

Median widening of the 407 ETR in Ontario continues. At this rate, the new lanes (between Highways 427 and 400) could be open in a few weeks.


----------



## lambersart2005

Can anyone tell me about the AADT on 407? Is there a map somewhere where you can see the volumes in the horseshoe area?
Thanks


----------



## NFZANMNIM

Obviously below the Ontarian average for grade-separated highways of that width, and below the parallel normal at-grade "Highway 7"


----------



## Innsertnamehere

407 ETR doesn't publish traditional AADT numbers, but a few years ago mentioned that 350,000 trips use the highway every day (for the entire 105km long length).

It will also absolutely have a higher AADT than the parallel highway 7. A rough guesstimate would probably put the busiest portion of the highway at around 100,000 AADT.


----------



## lambersart2005

Really, not more? It looks so massive. 
Thanks!


----------



## Innsertnamehere

It's a privately run toll highway with rates currently around $0.28 per km. it costs roughly $30 to drive the entire length. It's god damn expensive to use, and has low AADT rates because of that. It never gets congested though..


----------



## ChrisZwolle

100,000 vehicles per day would be my guesstimate too, and it's not a bad figure for a suburban toll road that essentially only serves suburbs. It's much wider than it has to be, instead of lowering tolls, they add more lanes to make sure it doesn't get congested.


----------



## MichiH

*New motorways and expressways*



Innsertnamehere said:


> Basic Canada list. I'll start with Ontario for now as its the province with the most going on and do the other provinces later. (I may miss some western projects, but for anything for the eastern portion of canada i should get) I'm going to have to label it by province as highway numbers are not nationally organized.
> 
> 404: Davis Drive - Ravenshoe Road 12 12.7km (2010 - 2014) - ? - Map
> 400: Highway 559 - Highway 637 12 103km (2011 -2017, phased openings beginning in 2015) - Project - Map - after completion, the existing highway 69 to Sudbury will be resigned 400.
> 407: Brock road - Highway 35 12 45km (2010-2020, phased opening beginning in 2015) - Project - Map
> 407 WDL: 407 - 401 12 10.6km (2015-2020) - Project - Map
> 407 EDL: 407 - 401 12 10.2km (2013-2015) - Project - Map
> 427: Highway 7 -Major Mackenzie Road 12 5.5km (2016 - 2020) - ? - Map
> 401: Huron Church Road - I-75 (US, new border crossing) 12 14km (2010-2015 for highway, 2018 for bridge) - Project - Map
> 7: Highway 85 - Highway 6 12 18km (2017-?) - ? - Map


Based on this information, I've finally sorted out the not yet u/c projects/sections and got this list:

*ON404:* Keswick-Ravenshoe Road – Newmarket-Green Lane 12 12.7km (2010 to 2014) – ? – map
*ON400:* Murdock River Road (ON637) – north of French River (ON607) 12 20km (Summer 2012 to Summer 2016) – project – map
*ON407:* Pickering-Brock Road – Oshawa-Harmony Road 12 22km (2013 to Late 2015) – project – map
*ON407-WDL:* Whitby (ON407) – Whitby (ON401) 12 10km (2013 to Late 2015) – project – map
*ON401:* Windsor-Ojibway – Windsor-Howard Avenue 12 11km (August 2011 to Late 2014) – project – map

Please check if the list is correct. It would be great if someone could complete the list with more / all ongoing Canadian motorway and expressway projects. Thanks in advance .
Of course, my intention is to complete is damn list: > click < .


----------



## Innsertnamehere

ON400 construction is already running down to highway 522, or at least tree clearing has occurred in satellite imagery from august 2012, that is 31km length.

Also, the stretch of ON400 currently under construction will be signed ON69 for the first few years until the gap between the northern portion of the highway and the southern portion of the highway is closed. 

I'll try and put together a Quebec project list sometime soon, outside of that there won't be too many true motorways going on in the country. _Maybe_ one or two in the Maritimes as well as the ring road projects in Alberta.


----------



## MichiH

Innsertnamehere said:


> ON400 construction is already running down to highway 522, or at least tree clearing has occurred in satellite imagery from august 2012, that is 31km length.


Preliminary works like tree clearing does not count. I usually take the beginning of the first bridge or digging.

The project page does not provide any info. I don't know if I can trust wikipedia, but the article says that only one section is u/c. Do you have a better source?

Contract awarding does also not count.



Innsertnamehere said:


> the second phase (opening in 2017 and 2020) had its contract awarded last week. This will complete the 407, a tolled bypass of Toronto that has been planned since the 1960's.


Btw: Have the works on the 2nd ON-407 section been started meanwhile?



Innsertnamehere said:


> Also, the stretch of ON400 currently under construction will be signed ON69 for the first few years until the gap between the northern portion of the highway and the southern portion of the highway is closed.


I've also read this but YOU  have also signed it "400" in January .



Innsertnamehere said:


> I'll try and put together a Quebec project list sometime soon, outside of that there won't be too many true motorways going on in the country. _Maybe_ one or two in the Maritimes as well as the ring road projects in Alberta.


That's great . What's about the upgrade of the Trans-Canadian-Highway in BC? I've seen ongoing works there one year ago but I cannot find info in the web . I even can't remember where exactly... near Revelstoke!?


----------



## sonysnob

MichiH said:


> Preliminary works like tree clearing does not count. I usually take the beginning of the first bridge or digging.
> 
> The project page does not provide any info. I don't know if I can trust wikipedia, but the article says that only one section is u/c. Do you have a better source?
> 
> Contract awarding does also not count.


There are two contracts ongoing. I was up that way yesterday, and while brush has been cleared as far south as Highway 522, it is actually starting to slowly grow back. I think advanced clearing may have been required for surveying and geotechnical work, not necessarily for construction itself. The next contract will bypass the French River bridge, and should be called within the next two years.



MichiH said:


> Btw: Have the works on the 2nd ON-407 section been started meanwhile?


No, it won't be started for another year or so.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

There was a dual carriageway project in Golden BC that finished up a year or so ago, but it isn't to motorway standards.

MTO is starting a study of the widening of the 400 between highway 89 and 11... Given they studied it in 2004 as well, this update likely means they want to start moving forward on it somewhat soon.

http://highway400improvements89to11.com/faqs.html


----------



## sonysnob

A few new pictures of the Hwy 69 construction south of Sudbury:


----------



## Innsertnamehere

great to see pics! I was wondering how it was progressing..


----------



## isaidso

Would this mean one can drive from Halifax to Sudbury on a twinned highway the whole way when the above stretch is completed? I believe the only other gap was between Edmunston, New Brunswick and Rivière-du-Loup, Quebec (which is being twinned).

The toughest challenge in building a twinned route from Atlantic to Pacific will likely be northern Ontario. It will likely become the lone gap.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

^^ Quebec Autoroute 89/Route Nationale 189 section from St Lawrence coast to NB border is not complete yet


----------



## Innsertnamehere

you would also have to take the long route around down the 401 to the 400. The realistic way of doing such a trip would be along highway 17 / 417 which the motorway ends around 100km past Ottawa.

There is several billion for twinning money for highway 17 in the spring budget however (paid out over 10 years) so that gap will be significantly smaller.

This project will make it (eventually) that you can drive from Toronto to Sudbury on a motorway. There will still be roughly 90km left to do after this project for that however..


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Agricultural lands have become much more productive since the 1960s. You need much less land to produce enough food for an increasing population. The Netherlands is the second largest exporter of agricultural products in the world despite the tiny size and high population density.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^It's all those tulips. :jk:


----------



## Haljackey

New Aerial pics of the 401 extension in Windsor

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hgparkway/

Dedicated thread: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=188722


----------



## verreme

ChrisZwolle said:


> Agricultural lands have become much more productive since the 1960s. You need much less land to produce enough food for an increasing population. The Netherlands is the second largest exporter of agricultural products in the world despite the tiny size and high population density.


OT: Source? Is it in tons or GDP per capita?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, total value of exports. The Netherlands ranks behind the U.S. in agricultural exports. While there are countries that produce much more agricultural products, they use it for the domestic market (China, India, Brazil).


----------



## isaidso

^^ The Netherlands makes Canada look like a massive under performer. We have vast tracts of land suitable for agriculture, a small population, yet still export less than the Dutch. I think a century ago, Canada had far higher market share in agricultural exports than we have today. In wheat it might have been as high as two-thirds of the world market at one point.



Kanadzie said:


> Surely it must be right now, nobody would leave money on the table...


Having land suitable for cultivation is one thing, but finding someone to sell it to is another. Canada already produces way more food than we eat.


----------



## verreme

ChrisZwolle said:


> No, total value of exports. The Netherlands ranks behind the U.S. in agricultural exports. While there are countries that produce much more agricultural products, they use it for the domestic market (China, India, Brazil).


Thanks! Guess we can close the OT here :angel:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 16, Saskatchewan*

*HIGHWAY 16 TWINNING PROJECT BETWEEN SASKATOON AND CLAVET TO BENEFIT FROM GOVERNMENT PARTNERSHIP*

Tom Lukiwski, Member of Parliament for Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, was joined by Nancy Heppner, Minister of Highways and Infrastructure, today to announce the first eligible project in Saskatchewan under the New Building Canada Fund.

This project will include the construction of 19.5 km of new twinned highway; the construction of a bypass north of the Village of Clavet which includes approximately 7 km of new highway for both lanes, and the construction of a CN railway crossing. This project will improve safety and efficiency for travellers. It will also support the economic growth of Saskatchewan, in particular the agricultural sector, by providing better access to one of the largest canola crush facilities in Canada.​
Full press release: http://www.saskatchewan.ca/government/news-and-media/2014/july/18/highway-16-twinning-project


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It sounds like the Thunder Bay Expressway may become a full freeway;

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thund...ssway-plans-unveiled-at-mto-meeting-1.2715484


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Probably good, there is a ton of money in the latest budget for northern highway expansion. Stuff like making the thunder bay expressway a full freeway possible.


----------



## sonysnob

I did a little bit of googling and this seems to be the project website:

http://www.thunderbayexpressway.ca/


----------



## Kanadzie

stupid hwy 401, shredded a nearly new tyre at midnight 100 km west of Cornwall up a hill


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 1, British Columbia*

Twinning of Highway 1 near Malakwa in B.C. announced.

current:









future:

New Malakwa Bridge Announced by TranBC, on Flickr


----------



## Haljackey

Couple news stories from the 401-Wonderland Road update today.

http://www.am980.ca/2014/07/25/23468/

http://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2014/07/new-highway-interchange-improving-access-to-london.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 1, Alberta*

*New Hwy. 1 Interchange opens in Medicine Hat*

*Motorists will now enjoy free-flow travel on the TransCanada Highway at Dunmore Road in Medicine Hat, more than a month ahead of schedule.*

The interchange allows free-flowing eastbound and westbound traffic on Highway 1 resulting in less congestion, smoother highway traffic and reduced demand on Medicine Hat’s roadway infrastructure.

The Dunmore Road interchange includes two new bridges, highway grade raising and embankment works, paving, installation of new storm sewer drainage lines and highway barriers, road widening to allow for left turn and merge lanes, new traffic signals and roadway lighting, and construction of a multi-user pathway to accommodate pedestrian traffic.​
http://medicinehatnews.com/news/local-news/2014/08/01/overpass-officially-operational/

One step closer to a full freeway bypass of Medicine Hat. Just one traffic light to go.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*New Clair-Fort Kent International Bridge*

*New Clair-Fort Kent International Bridge officially opened*

Officials from both sides of the New Brunswick/Maine border today celebrated the official opening of the $13.9 million Clair-Fort Kent International Bridge.

The ribbon-cutting ceremony also marked the partnership in building and funding the bridge between the province’s Department of Transportation and Infrastructure and Maine’s Department of Transportation.

The bridge opened ahead of schedule in order to accommodate the Congrès mondial acadien which takes place in August. This major cultural event is expected to draw significant cross-border traffic during the two-week celebration taking place in Maine, New Brunswick and Quebec. The bridge work was completed two months ahead of schedule.

The new bridge over the St. John River links Route 1 in the United States with Route 161 on the Canadian side. Both countries are co-owners of the bridge. Construction and maintenance costs are shared equally by Maine and New Brunswick. Daily traffic on the bridge averages more than 1,000 cars and 45 trucks.​
http://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/departments/dti/news/news_release.2014.07.0971.html

Google Earth:


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Now they need to build a Lethbridge bypass.


----------



## Kanadzie

Nice to see new ME/NB bridge, there is a real paucity of road links there.


----------



## sonysnob

The sixth eastbound lane along Highway 407 ETR between Highway 427 and Highway 400 opened earlier this week. The westbound lane is basically finished, but the final striping hasn't bee completed, so it is not yet open. Construction barrels will likely remain for a few additional weeks while some final work (such as installing enhanced mileage markers) is completed.


















(The sixth eastbound lane exits at the Hwy 400 interchange).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think this confirms the tolls are too high. Was this really necessary? 

On the other hand, you can buy a virtually guaranteed free-flow ride around Toronto. 

It's a shame there are no AADT figures for Highway 407. Combined traffic on the entire road doesn't tell us much about the actual usage, such data is only interesting from a financial point of view.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They built a decent median there. Enough space to widen it to eight or maybe even ten lanes.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Its designed for 10 lanes south of the planned Bradford Bypass and 8 north of that, though the province really doesn't want to get to the point where it needs to be that wide.

A standard MTO median is 30 meters anyway, which is enough for 10 lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A640, Bois-des-Filion, QC*

Unused bridges across the A640 in Bois-des-Filion, a northern suburb of Montréal. It was planned to extend A19 to here, but those plans were shelved in the 1970s, but they still plan to convert Route 335 into A19.










http://www.bape.gouv.qc.ca/sections/mandats/autoroute_19-bois-des-filion_laval/index.htm


----------



## Innsertnamehere

pretty sure the A19 extension has funding.


----------



## Kanadzie

It was announced but the government was defeated. Then the next government did nothing and then it got defeated and the new government is the same party as the first... so wheels turn, very slowly

Was in newspaper yesterday actually:
http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/m...troncon-de-8-km-a-un-cout-de-600-millions.php

600 M$ for 8 km highway with all ROW already preserved and owned :lol:

The plan for the road is stupid though, they are saying to make 2x3 except with left lanes reserved permanently for bus traffic. So you have a couple of buses driving 90 km/h max in left lane, then middle lane normal traffic at 130 km/h and right lane, trucks at 105 km/h... meanwhile "usual suspects" are complaining because the bicycle way planned is no good or that the "reserved lanes" might be converted to general purpose lanes when the traffic counts get higher and justify 2x3.

The plan would take the road to Hwy 640 but not past it. The half-built interchange would keep a cross-traffic on the Hwy 19 mainline, and only use 3 of the 4 overpasses.

The article notes though that the normal expected journey time on the existing Hwy 335 is 10 min, and becomes 25 min during morning rush hour. With the highway working properly it would be something like 6 min. The highway was originally slated to be built in late 1970's but was cancelled by incoming government in 1976, as were many highway projects in Quebec.


----------



## sonysnob

Kanadzie said:


> It was announced but the government was defeated. Then the next government did nothing and then it got defeated and the new government is the same party as the first... so wheels turn, very slowly
> 
> Was in newspaper yesterday actually:
> http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/m...troncon-de-8-km-a-un-cout-de-600-millions.php
> 
> 600 M$ for 8 km highway with all ROW already preserved and owned :lol:
> 
> The plan for the road is stupid though, they are saying to make 2x3 except with left lanes reserved permanently for bus traffic. So you have a couple of buses driving 90 km/h max in left lane, then middle lane normal traffic at 130 km/h and right lane, trucks at 105 km/h... meanwhile "usual suspects" are complaining because the bicycle way planned is no good or that the "reserved lanes" might be converted to general purpose lanes when the traffic counts get higher and justify 2x3.
> 
> The plan would take the road to Hwy 640 but not past it. The half-built interchange would keep a cross-traffic on the Hwy 19 mainline, and only use 3 of the 4 overpasses.
> 
> The article notes though that the normal expected journey time on the existing Hwy 335 is 10 min, and becomes 25 min during morning rush hour. With the highway working properly it would be something like 6 min. The highway was originally slated to be built in late 1970's but was cancelled by incoming government in 1976, as were many highway projects in Quebec.


How can 8km of new highway on right of way that is already owned cost $600 million? That's absurd. I think the 12km 404 extension, on a new alignment only set the government of Ontario back $90 million. (Which in itself is not a small chunk of change).


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ 
Because of brown envelopes  -> http://www.montrealgazette.com/corruption/index.html

The worst is there is no major works that are there aside from the new bridge over the 1000 islands river -> which would be more of a glorified culvert than anything else as the river is very small, the only freeway interchange at 640 only consists of re-working the loops to fit the existing overpasses, etc. There is basically 1 new carriageway, rework of the existing carriageway and four cheap parclos / diamonds on small (basically farm at this time) roads.

Here's a presentation of the project actually for the environmental assessment "public hearings"
http://www.coalition19.qc.ca/presentation-BAPE.pdf


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Why would they need bus lanes on a freeway that will remain free-flow forever? The current Route 335 carries approximately 25,000 vehicles per day. If you rebuild that to a four-lane freeway you really don't need separate bus lanes, unless they plan some extreme suburban growth in the region. 

$ 600 million seems like an absurd high figure for such an easy project.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

I wonder if it includes the reconstruction of the cloverleafs on both sides or something, plus a bunch of additional bus ramps on and off the highway?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Perimeter Highway, Winnipeg, MB*

The design of the Highway 59/101 interchange in northeastern Winnipeg. Construction is planned for 2015-2018.










The current design is unusual, and a leftover of a 1996 detour that was intended to be temporary.


----------



## Kanadzie

ChrisZwolle said:


> Why would they need bus lanes on a freeway that will remain free-flow forever? The current Route 335 carries approximately 25,000 vehicles per day. If you rebuild that to a four-lane freeway you really don't need separate bus lanes, unless they plan some extreme suburban growth in the region.
> 
> $ 600 million seems like an absurd high figure for such an easy project.


Route 335 / A-19 would probably have massive growth if completed just from traffic avoiding the over-capacity A15 in particular. Right now basically nobody uses the R 335 except people whose destination is the A-19 bridge to Montreal. With a good road to the north, people will probably use it as an access to A-440 much more.

There is potential for massive suburban growth as most of the area is farms that are not permitted for development, but with time they eventually will be issuing the permits.

Bus lanes in permanence reserved seems to be a feature of all new road projects in urban areas in Quebec for political reasons. The A-25 bridge between Laval and Montreal has them as well. (the bridge is always free flow but the connecting roads are jammed)

But at the end the traffic is still ending up at the Papineau St surface road in Montreal and eventually the A-40 Metropolitan Boulevard which can handle essentially no additional traffic.


----------



## Haljackey

Ya that Winnipeg project is an oddball. Glad something will be done to improve the junction, even if it is a 3/4 cloverleaf.

-----

New photos of the 401 extension / Windsor Essex Parkway / Right Honourable Herb Gray Parkway.

The project has now been going on for 3 full years. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hgparkway/


----------



## Zack Fair

Innsertnamehere said:


> photos I found of the 404 extension to Keswick:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/JeremyGlobalTV


What's the function of that parking lot? Bus terminal?


----------



## Gil

Zack Fair said:


> What's the function of that parking lot? Bus terminal?


From what I've heard elsewhere it's a carpool/park & ride for the GO bus route up to Keswick.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Yup, carpool lot / GO bus stop. There is a couple of them along the 404 now. Wellington and Davis existed before the extension and now there is one at Green lane and Queensville sideroad.

They are essentially a new standard for new construction urban highways for MTO, I think they will be building a couple along the 407 extension as well, and they built one beside the 401 when they widened it to 12 lanes to Hurontario.


----------



## diablo234

fredcalif said:


> The more I know about Canada, the more I fall in love with that place.
> I am big fan of Highways, and Canada is one of the best for that along with California and Texas


It's really just Ontario that has a good/decent freeway network. The other provinces tend to be lacking in that regard (with the possible exception for Quebec if their freeways were better maintained).


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Ontario is a world leader in highway design, outside of Ontario though it does degrade to a certain extent. Provinces like Manitoba have absolutely embarrassing highway networks, but generally eastern Canada is fairly good, Ontario, New Brunswick, Quebec (less so), Nova Scotia, etc. have very good highway networks.

You also have to remember that Ontario accounts for 1/3rd of Canadas population, the 400 series highway network dominates the Canadian highway network and rightfully so.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

New Brunswick has a relatively large freeway network for its area and population size. 

There's a report about the poor design standards of the Perimeter around Winnipeg. It's called 'disaster by design'. They identified 70 at-grade crossings and 10 railroad crossings in 2006. Some have been fixed, but most haven't. 

The prairie provinces have a fairly adequate network of twinned highways, that basically function like at-grade freeways with a 100 or 110 kph speed limit. Soon they will finish the twinning of 400-something kilometers of Alberta Highway 43 to Grande Prairie and in 2016 all of Highway 63 to Fort McMurray will be twinned.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

those highways are full of stop lights as well though at major intersections.

Prairie provinces like to pay to twin roads as it only costs around $1-$1.5 million per km to construct a second carriageway, so its easy to reach a high cost-benefit ratio for the projects as its so damn cheap. Thats fine for minor routes that are similar in importance to US state routes in the US, but its a bit substandard on the Trans Canada routes IMO. Building interchanges however raises the costs a ton and they never seem to want to give out the cash for it, which is unfortunate. Even the highway between Calgary and Edmonton isn't fully grade seperated, and it has an AADT of something like 30,000 at its lowest point. BC is a bit better with some real highways, but even then they tend to build these weird half expressways that have some interchanges but some stoplights as well.

You generally have to get to Ontario before major routes are full motorways, and then its essentially a full motorway network all the way to the East coast. Quebec has a lot of substandard highway interchanges and Ontario's inner city municipally owned highways are generally fairly poorly built (usually built to 1950's design standards), as well as a few substandard RIRO highways, but otherwise it is a surprisingly modern and safe road system.


----------



## Kanadzie

I think the Calgary-Edmonton Hwy 2 is almost entirely freeway now... there are only a couple of grade crossings between Airdrie and Red Deer and maybe one between Red Deer and the Henday ring road IIRC. The situation is practically like those Interstates in Texas, the AADT of the intersection is like 5 vehicles per day, but if you close it, the 5 cars need to make a 10 or 20 km detour...

It is weird since new urban freeways in Alberta have pretty kickass design (e.g. new Stoney) and they have plans for interchanges a bit everywhere they are missing, but there is no money...


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ yes but you can't see the nearby bridge

I did the tour of the island this past summer, was wonderful, but they were repaving the bridge so they scraped off all the asphalt, and the expansion joints were thus like 4 inches proud of the surface... I felt so bad driving my nice car on that crap and every 20 seconds big bang :lol:


----------



## sonysnob

Ontario Highway 17 near Kenora:


----------



## NFZANMNIM

sonysnob said:


> Roundabout on Quebec Highway 141 at the A-10 interchange.


https://maps.google.ca/maps?ll=45.293924,-72.21071&spn=0.015714,0.033023&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=45.293888,-72.21077&panoid=mNnOytFqcgTJmCLUJ1i-Ng&cbp=12,121.37,,1,-0.91
For whoever wondering where this is


----------



## NFZANMNIM

Is there anything about connecting Autoroute quebecoise 50 to anything over the river?


----------



## Gil

NFZANMNIM said:


> Is there anything about connecting Autoroute quebecoise 50 to anything over the river?


The Kanesatake First Nation opposed the highway running through their reserve, hence the lack of a connection across either the Ottawa/Outaouais or St. Lawrence Rivers into Montreal. The completed highway meets up with the Aut. 15 at Mirabel.

The same reserve prevents a connection between the 40 and 640 along the north shore.


----------



## Penn's Woods

I assumed he was asking about the Ottawa end.


----------



## Kanadzie

theoretically it should go to Pembroke I figure but no chance. (edit) The plans for eastward extension were more developed, and the 4 lane section of Hwy 158 out that way was signed as A-50 for a while.

There was also supposed to be an extension of A-5 to 417 at some point but Ottawa is being a jerk


----------



## Penn's Woods

Why should Ottawa make anything easy for Quebec?


----------



## Kanadzie

Cause otherwise we'll take our ball and go home, we've been doing that for 147 years now


----------



## Penn's Woods

...or threatening to.

"Si je vous ai bien compris, vous êtes en train de dire, 'à la prochaine fois'." - René Lévesque, May 1980.


----------



## sonysnob

Tight ramp ahead:


----------



## Penn's Woods

I've forgotten where the 406 is. Saint Catharines/Welland?


----------



## sonysnob

^ Yeah it runs south from St. Catharines to Welland.


----------



## sonysnob

Kitchener, Ontario's Bridgeport Bridge:


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Highway 407 extension construction in september.

Notice how the bridge piers are built for a 10 lane cross section even though opening day it will be 6 lanes. The 407 has been designed to easily be widened as demand warrants.


----------



## AbstractEntity

Kanadzie said:


> There was also supposed to be an extension of A-5 to 417 at some point but Ottawa is being a jerk


It would help ease congestion on arterial roads in downtown Ottawa as well, so it's not like Quebec are the only ones who'd benefit from this.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Highway 401 in 1959 at Meadowvale Road. Today this same stretch of highway is 14 lanes wide and has an AADT of over 240,000.







https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.7993565,-79.1663339,198m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en


----------



## Kanadzie

It's amusing how parts of eastern 401 still look exactly like that (e.g. near Quebec border), but so close to TO :lol:


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Traffic


----------



## Kanadzie

Ah the GTA, every freakin day 

that part of the 403 between the QEW and where it turns after the 407 always tempts, it starts moving and as soon as you get optimistic, you have to stop again...


----------



## keokiracer

I'm gonna assume snow and lots of it?


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^If you saw my post in Roadside Rest about the five feet Buffalo's had over the last couple of days, the thing about lake-effect snow is you need to be downwind of the lake to get it. It's perfectly common for Buffalo to get enormous amounts and Toronto to get nothing.


----------



## keokiracer

Yeah I realise that, but the Lake Effect doesn't have to be only there, there could be 'regular' snow as well 
I sure as hell hope that's not a regular rush hour...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Lake-effect snow is caused by cold air flowing over the relatively warm lakes, causing huge precipitation downwind. As cold air almost always comes from the northwest in this region, the lake-effect snow side is the most intense on the southern and eastern shores of the lake. This effect diminishes once the lake freezes over. 

Then, of course, you have your 'Polar Vortex', 'Arctic Chill' or 'Bering Sea bomb' bearing down on Canada and the United States.


----------



## Penn's Woods

"Bering Sea bomb"? That's a new one....

Pictures of Buffalo on the top of the front page of the New York Times and Philadelphia Inquirer this morning.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A410, Sherbrooke, Québec*

The next phase of A410 around the southern side of Sherbrooke opens to traffic tomorrow (November 21).

http://www.lapresse.ca/la-tribune/s...-nouveau-troncon-de-la-410-ouvre-vendredi.php


----------



## Suburbanist

How busy is the Alaskan Highway west of Whitehorse?


----------



## Innsertnamehere

keokiracer said:


> Yeah I realise that, but the Lake Effect doesn't have to be only there, there could be 'regular' snow as well
> I sure as hell hope that's not a regular rush hour...


Toronto doesn't get lake effect snow, its upstate new york that gets it. Only the south side of the great lakes, so Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, etc. 

It was a regular snowfall yes, but 5cm of it on coming down in the middle of rush hour for the first time this year. Lots of accidents, etc. as people adjust to driving in the snow again. Traffic like this happens a couple times a year usually.

the Alaskan highway west of Whitehorse i presume would be almost empty. its essentially a road to nowhere.


----------



## keokiracer

Innsertnamehere said:


> Toronto doesn't get lake effect snow, its upstate new york that gets it. Only the south side of the great lakes, so Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, etc.


Thank you for repeating what I said :|



Innsertnamehere said:


> It was a regular snowfall yes, but 5cm of it on coming down in the middle of rush hour for the first time this year. Lots of accidents, etc. as people adjust to driving in the snow again. Traffic like this happens a couple times a year usually.


I figured it was something like that, thanks.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Innsertnamehere said:


> ....
> the Alaskan highway west of Whitehorse i presume would be almost empty. its essentially a road to nowhere.


Or to Alaska.


----------



## Gil

keokiracer said:


> I'm gonna assume snow and lots of it?


It was the first significant snowfall of the season. Once people become re-accustomed to driving in those conditions the general speed will pick up.

If the conditions are right Toronto or usually the area west of Toronto can experience the same conditions as Niagara and Buffalo. If the low pressure system sits over Pennsylvania or southern New York the winds will wind up blowing east across Lake Ontario and the snow falls on the western shores of the lake.

I remember during exam periods while in high school and university hoping a low would drift there and we'd get a snow day instead of an exam!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> How busy is the Alaskan Highway west of Whitehorse?


It varies considerably between summer and winter. The average AADT between Whitehorse and Haines Junction is 500 to 600 vehicles per day, but it is lower between Haines Junction and Alaska, with 200 vehicles per day.


----------



## ssiguy2

The highways was never really intended to move goods or services, quite the contrary. 
It was actually built in record time by the Americans. The US desperately wanted a road connection to vulnerable Alaska during WW11 so the US Core of Engineers built it in record time. The Canadian government had no problem with them building the road IF the US paid for it which they did.


----------



## sonysnob

ChrisZwolle said:


> The next phase of A410 around the southern side of Sherbrooke opens to traffic tomorrow (November 21).
> 
> http://www.lapresse.ca/la-tribune/s...-nouveau-troncon-de-la-410-ouvre-vendredi.php


I took some pictures of the extension back in October:
http://www.AsphaltPlanet.ca/PQ/A/410/index.html


----------



## Innsertnamehere

I realize that, but those are very, very far away. the vast majority of trips made to those communities are going to be by plane and boat. its 1,000km from whitehorse to anchorage.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Isn't Whitehorse just as remote from Edmonton?


----------



## Kanadzie

and there's plenty of traffic between Edmonton and Whitehorse

but not a 401 level :lol:


----------



## Innsertnamehere

The westbound lanes of the 401 realignment to make room for the 407WDL interchange opened 2 weeks ago. The 407 East project is rapidly advancing to its scheduled completion date of December 2015. The steel structure in the forefront of the image is the future overpass for one of the merge lanes between the two highways (structure W7), and the structure in the background is the new Lakeridge Road overpass which was constructed to allow for a realigned 401 (Structure W3). You can see the eastbound lanes on the old alignment still in use on the far left of the image.

Image Coutesy of SonySnob









Interchange design upon completion. Note that this image shows the ultimate width of the 401, with the 12 lane Collector - Express system running to the interchange. Upon initial construction it will not have that design, but rather a simple 6 lane configuration.


----------



## Kanadzie

Wow, it seems like they are moving really fast!

6 lanes there sucks today and it will suck on opening  It's such a relief coming into the GTA and hitting the express sign. 12 lanes to 35/115 wouldn't even be a luxury (well it would be nice today , Oshawa is such a consistent mess)


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Plan is to eventually make it 12 to the WDL (what I just featured), 10 to the EDL (second 407 interchange on the other side of Oshawa), and 8 to 35/115.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

It technically is municipally owned (well, the old road was, the new one will probably be provincial), known as Huron-Church road. 3 really ends at the roundabout. They kept the road to deal with local traffic and at grade local road intersections. Remember that this is an urban highway and required large scale demolition through suburban Windsor to create.


----------



## Haljackey

Kanadzie said:


> I wonder if they will consider the road Hwy 401 and renumber exits for the next... 827 km or so?


Nope, they planned for this :cheers:

Last exit number is currently 13 (Dougall Parkway). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_401#Exit_list

It ends at Highway 3 with around 10km to go, so I would assume that would cover the extension.


----------



## sonysnob

Some photos of the newly widened stretch of Hwy 417 through Kanata:









































































And in case anyone has forgotten what the 417 used to look like through Kanata:


----------



## [atomic]

^^
is the lane on the left an hov/tolled lane?


----------



## MichiH

^^ HOV


----------



## smokiboy

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Herb Gray Parkway / 401 extension in Windsor, Ontario.
> 
> 
> Highway 3 eastbound E.C. Row to Grand Marais by Rt. Hon. Herb Gray Parkway, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Highway 401 ramps by Rt. Hon. Herb Gray Parkway, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Highway 3 east of Todd/Cabana by Rt. Hon. Herb Gray Parkway, on Flickr



Correct me if I am wrong but for now the Herb Gray Parkway won't be of any great help to relieve border crossing traffic until a new bridge is built between Windsor and Detroit. And from what I have heard there is still no official start construction date. Then why this intensive construction for a road that will not have any true value until the bridge is built? Don't get me wrong I think a new bridge is necessary, I just would have thought it better that is was built in tandem with all these 'approach' roads.


----------



## [atomic]

^^
there seem to be ramps between Lambton Rd and EC Row Expwy (1st pic in your quote) so traffic from/to the ambassador Bridge can use the 401 from there which is right next to highway 3 :cheers:


----------



## sonysnob

It would have been better if the new bridge were further along, but (as mentioned above) the new highway will still serve to by-pass almost a dozen traffic signals on Hwy 3 on the way to the Ambassador Bridge in the interim.

The new bridge faced numerous legal challenges and red tape, and while construction hasn't yet started, the progress that has been made just to get as far as they have, has been no small feat.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Site clearing has begun for the bridge, construction is supposed to start by the end of the year. Completion isn't set until 2020, though.

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/news/l...-beach-for-dric-bridge-as-project-plows-ahead

In other news, MTO has officially failed to release a 2014 highways document, detailing construction projects for the next 5 years. It has now been 17 months since the last document, normally released in August. A delay was expected due to the election, but not this long. I wonder if they will release one in the next few months and then another 8 months later, or simply skip a year and release 2015. The document is pretty important as it is usually the first public document available detailing new road projects in the province.


----------



## sonysnob

^ They didn't publish a five year a plan a couple of years ago either. I just looked it up and it looks like in 2009 there was no plan published either.


----------



## Kanadzie

_Five year plans_? Jesus, they couldn't do 3 or 6 :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The People's Republic of Chanada.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

Route Transtaiga, Nord du Quebec


----------



## Haljackey

Some plans for Ontario over the next few years

Southern highways http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pu...-2014/southern-highways-program-2014-2018.pdf

Northern highways http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pu...-2014/northern-highways-program-2014-2018.pdf


----------



## Innsertnamehere

oh good, its finally out. Really, really late though.

Absolutely nothing new in it from what I can tell. a few date changes in it some completion dates have been added, but generally, nothing. We have a date on the 401 widening to the Port Credit river now, 2018.


----------



## Kanadzie

I saw 401 6-laning and Cobourg and got all happy

then I noticed it is like for 4 miles and maybe it will be done in 2017... argh  better than nothing...

Some well required resurfacing on Eastern Ont 401 sections but not mentioned date (2016-2018).

Curiously seems they are replacing bridges on Thousand Islands Parkway... but isn't it managed by the federal? Anyway I guess the "nice" bridges will be replaced and the rusty ones will stay :lol:


----------



## zaphod

wrt the transtaiga highway:

When you see a sign like that, and it's not summer, I guess the first thing you have to ask is, "am I going to freeze to death out here".

It is neat to see where the great contiguous mass of roads in North America starts to peter out. It's cool and slightly terrifying just how massive, and mostly empty a great deal of Canada is north of the part where people actually live.


----------



## ssiguy2

The vast majority of Canadians live within a 2 hour drive of the US border. the only main exception is Alberta and part of Atlantic Canada.


----------



## Calvin W

ssiguy2 said:


> The vast majority of Canadians live within a 2 hour drive of the US border. the only main exception is Alberta and part of Atlantic Canada.


More and more of the population is further and further away from the border these days.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ Yeah, like Brampton :lol:

growth in Calgary and Edmonton is maybe the only real factor like that, the rest is just not really valid aside from northern suburban expansion of Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto...


----------



## Penn's Woods

Kanadzie said:


> Anything outside the escarpment is Northern Ontario


Even Point Pelee?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kanadzie said:


> Vancouver hasn't even had any snow yet and is still green


They got 2 meters of snow a few hundred kilometers to the north in Kitimat, B.C.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

vancouver rarely gets snow anyway, its one of the warmest cities in the country.

St. John, NB has had a lot of snow recently too.


----------



## Calvin W

ChrisZwolle said:


> They got 2 meters of snow a few hundred kilometers to the north in Kitimat, B.C.


600+km as the crow flies from Vancouver to Kitimat. More than just a *few*hundred km.


----------



## isaidso

Yup, Toronto gets very little snow by Canadian standards. Halifax (on the east coast) is actually warmer than Toronto in winter but gets many times the amount of snow fall due to the amount of precipitation there.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Coastal storms? Weather Channel's calling for another two (yes, two) this weekend (Friday and Saturday).

Toronto's on the "dry" side of Lake Ontario for lake-effect-snow purposes, but how much blows down from Lake Huron?


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Google finally updated their streetveiw imagery.

Highway widening project just east of my hometown:

https://goo.gl/maps/z9jGp

The project will widen the highway from it's current two lanes, to four and include a grade separated interchange at The Village of Pritchard, on a new alignment.


----------



## sonysnob

Proper Winter in Canada photo:


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Where's that?


----------



## Kanadzie

Hwy 7 in Durham County (you have to say "Durham County" really deeply and menacing-like)


----------



## VoltAmps

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ Toronto doesn't get very much snow. There was a small snow storm (20 cm?) on Monday and the city was paralyzed in chaos. If those photos were from today it would be white.
> 
> Vancouver hasn't even had any snow yet and is still green
> 
> Real Canada snow you have to look maybe Edmonton or Montreal, Quebec city, Halifax, or any "northern Ontario" or any other rural place...


Vancouver had a small snow fall in December


----------



## Innsertnamehere

401 extension in Windsor is finishing up:


Aerial Photos December 2014 by Rt. Hon. Herb Gray Parkway, on Flickr


----------



## -Valentino-

Canada has the nicest looking highways in the world... beautiful fonts on overhead signs as well!


----------



## sirfreelancealot

Kanadzie said:


> Hwy 7 in Durham County (you have to say "Durham County" really deeply and menacing-like)


If you said "County Durham" you'd be describing a part of the North East of England: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Durham


----------



## Penn's Woods

It's really the Regional Municipality of Durham, or some such, anyway....

(I mean the one in Ontario. The one in England's probably a Unitary Authority.)


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ typical Durham county scene:









power lines, occasional dead body, but definitely lots of power lines! 

The British way of saying "County X" and "River Y" always strikes me odd, it's always the reverse on this side of atlantic...


----------



## geogregor

Kanadzie said:


> The British way of saying "County X" and "River Y" always strikes me odd, it's always the reverse on this side of atlantic...


The correct way of saying strikes you odd? 
:troll:


----------



## Penn's Woods

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ typical Durham county scene:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> power lines, occasional dead body, but definitely lots of power lines!
> 
> The British way of saying "County X" and "River Y" always strikes me odd, it's always the reverse on this side of atlantic...


Actually, I think "County Durham"'s an oddity in Britain. Other British counties just use proper names ("Somerset," period...) They do "County X" in Ireland....


----------



## DanielFigFoz

The indeed rather Irish sounding County Durham is indeed a unitary authority, smaller than the ceremonial county however. You could say 'the County of Somerset' but it would sound a bit strange outside a document. Then you have to suffix -shire, which means the same as the Norman word 'county', so the County of Leicestershire, means the County of Leicester County or the Shire of Leicestershire which is a bit odd, but so it is. 
Most rivers are river x, I would say the River Hudson, but I would say the St Lawrence River so there are exceptions. Lakes are quite fluid, Lake Victoria versus Rutland Water or whatever. There isn't a rule, it wouldn't be English if there was one.
Anyway, lets not derail the thread, here's a photo of a road in Quebec taken by Emmanuel Huybrechts.










I envy those colours that's for sure.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

technically its "Durham Region", not Durham county.


----------



## Penn's Woods

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Municipality_of_Durham


----------



## Kanadzie

Oh come _on _I can't be the only one who watched that TV show :lol:


----------



## Haljackey

Then there's the The Municipality of Baie-James (James Bay) the largest 'city' in the world by land area.

http://www.jamesbayroad.com/travel/intro.html


If you want to travel on some of the most remote highways in the world, this is the place for you!

James Bay Road - paved: http://www.jamesbayroad.com/jbr/index.html

Trans-Taiga Road - gravel, 4 wheel drive vehicle recommended: http://www.jamesbayroad.com/ttr/index.html
-Warnings: http://www.jamesbayroad.com/ttr/ttrdriving.html


----------



## Suburbanist

*National Route 1 and National Route 16 in central Canada*

Canada has two major national routes crossing the central provinces: Route 1 and Route 16. 

How many exact km of each are already on a 2x2 standard (regardless of grade separation and access control) in Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta?

Is route 16 significantly more affected by winter weather than route 1, or do severe weather system usually affect both equally?

What are long-term provincial plans for either route, in terms of converting 1+1 sections to 2+2 in these three provinces?

Is traffic between Kamloops-Jasper-Hinton possible year round, or are drivers required to drive via Banff and Calgary?


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Thru_Hell

The Weather Channel in the U.S. shows episodes of this reality series (among other things like storm-chasers) when they don't feel there's enough actual weather to cover.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Highway 1 (the main Trans-Canada branch) has four lanes throughout the prairies. Highway 16 (the Yellowhead Highway) has four lanes throughout between the Rockies and Saskatoon. Apparently most people use Highways 1-11-16 from Winnipeg to Saskatoon and Edmonton. That's nearly entirely a four-lane highway (except for a brief section in Chamberlain, SK). You can drive all the way to Grande Prairie on four-lane highways.

Most of these four-lane highways have a 110 km/h speed limit, regardless of access-control.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

yes, they usually just devolve into signalized arterials through towns though. 16 between Saskatoon and Winnipeg is not twinned. Work is funded to twin the first couple of km out of Saskatoon, but beyond that there aren't any plans to twin it in the future from my understanding.

Alberta is planning a couple of town bypasses to eliminate the stoplights along many parts of the highways, but beyond that i'm not sure of future plans. Its only recently that twinning of the routes has finished up.

The big efforts on twinning for the Trans Canada right now is Northern Ontario and getting 4 lanes through the Rocky Mountains. Ontario is in the process of twinning roughly 150 km of the 1700km gap of 2 lane highway in its control, and the government ran the last election promising to speed up works. BC is sort of slowly adding 4 lane sections of highway in a patchwork manner.


----------



## Suburbanist

Innsertnamehere said:


> yes, they usually just devolve into signalized arterials through towns though. 16 between Saskatoon and Winnipeg is not twinned. Work is funded to twin the first couple of km out of Saskatoon, but beyond that there aren't any plans to twin it in the future from my understanding.
> 
> Alberta is planning a couple of town bypasses to eliminate the stoplights along many parts of the highways, but beyond that i'm not sure of future plans. Its only recently that twinning of the routes has finished up.


Building road bypasses shouldn't be expansive since terrain is favorable and all towns have plenty of space around there.

Do smaller communities in the way of route 1 and 16 generally want a bypass (less traffic/noise/accidents withing the built-up area), or don't want it (local roadside business lose passing traffic)?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It is interesting to note that most towns were developed off the main highways in the 'Dominion Land Survey'. They incorporated a 'road allowance' from the beginning in 1871. That way few highways run through villages and towns compared to the Midwestern United States. Larger towns of course grew beyond their original township square. 

Lloydminster is probably the largest city with no functional bypass. It is located directly on the border of Alberta and Saskatchewan (two poles mark the provincial border there). Most businesses are in Alberta due to the more favorable tax climate.


----------



## Suburbanist

When will Edmonton complete its ring highway (there are signs of construction on Google Maps)? What about Calgary's?


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Edmonton is supposed to open in the fall of 2016.

Calgary is having troubles with the final 1/4 of its ring road as it has to run through the corner of a native reserve and the native reserve isn't playing ball.


----------



## Kanadzie

Suburbanist said:


> Canada has two major national routes crossing the central provinces: Route 1 and Route 16.


It is funny to imagine the Trans-Canada and Yellowhead as being "central" Canada :lol: That's West!


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Well, the Trans-Canada is West, Central and East....


----------



## Kanadzie

Yeah but then it turns into Hwy 17, 417, 40, 25, 20, 85, 185, 2 etc etc


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Okay, serious question: Are people west of Ontario more likely to actually call it the Trans-Canada and people farther east more likely to use the numbers? (And in Quebec, does it depend on whether they vote PQ or not?)


----------



## Kanadzie

I think - yes absolutely

Western people always say Trans-Canada except maybe that section in BC where the Coke runs

Northern Ontario sometimes says but more often Hwy 17 or 11/17 (admittedly the TCH splits so is confusing)
Hwy 417 is always 417, or the Queensway in Ottawa
Hwy 40 west of Montreal island, always Hwy 40
Hwy 40 in the "west island" of Montreal, from the bridge to Decarie, where PQ voters are nonexistent, always calls it "Trans Canada" (or T-can) 
40 past Decarie is the Metropolitan and TCH isn't spoken of anymore...

I wonder if part of it is due to history? There was planning for Hwy 20 through Montreal to be the Trans-Canada (including the tunnel, Ville-Marie expressway, etc), when those roads were under construction. I am not sure how far it went, maybe even to the 401?


----------



## Kanadzie

Suburbanist said:


> Building road bypasses shouldn't be expansive since terrain is favorable and all towns have plenty of space around there.
> 
> Do smaller communities in the way of route 1 and 16 generally want a bypass (less traffic/noise/accidents withing the built-up area), or don't want it (local roadside business lose passing traffic)?


There isn't much problem... the larger cities either have bypasses or are in the planning stages (specifically I think of Alberta, like Medicine Hat). The smaller areas, you might have 1 traffic light and 1 km of tempo 50, but the road is wide (two lanes per direction at least), so you have no real delay issue. Medicine Hat is like the worst one, and it had... maybe 4 traffic lights. But now I think only 3, because they built an interchange at the worst one. Mind you making interchanges to get rid of lights on Winnpeg's ringroad would be nice 

Through Ontario the towns that the Trans-Canada passes are nastier, since often you have only 2 lanes (1 each way) through the town and lights, traffic sometimes backs up a bit.

The only real bottleneck in the West is Calgary along 16 Ave N, that's just crap, and because it is a city, there are traffic jams. You can bypass on freeway, but the distance is more than double...


----------



## Suburbanist

Kanadzie said:


> It is funny to imagine the Trans-Canada and Yellowhead as being "central" Canada :lol: That's West!


Hmm, I'm not familiar with region divisions in Canada, only in US.

I thought these three provinces were central, and British Columbia and Yukkon the West.


----------



## Kanadzie

Ontario and Quebec are central, anything west is West
Yukon would generally be though of as "north" or "north-west" (but that may confuse with NWT)
BC is sometimes West but sometimes, just BC. BC predates the Prairie provinces (MB, SK, AB)
Maritimes would be the eastern NB, NS, NL, PEI (but sometimes not NL?)

"Eastern Canada" usually includes Ontario and all east, but sometimes ends at Quebec, or sometimes at NB depending on context


----------



## NFZANMNIM

I'd say Yukon, NWT and Nunavat are just north I'd say, and even a couple of hours north of Edmonton is just north and Prince Rupert and Prince George even.


----------



## Suburbanist

Are bear encounters a risk on route 16? I mean, if you stop to take some pictures, should you be aware of bears near the road ready to attack?


----------



## Kanadzie

oh no... I would say, if the road has asphalt on it, you don't need to worry, there is enough traffic to keep them away

Anyhow bears are huge and hard to miss just go back to your car :lol:


----------



## Penn's Woods

NFZANMNIM said:


> I'd say Yukon, NWT and Nunavat are just north I'd say, and even a couple of hours north of Edmonton is just north and Prince Rupert and Prince George even.


I'm remembering the woman in a Vieux-Montréal gift shop telling my mother in a crisp British accent that northern Quebec "is all bush!"


----------



## Penn's Woods

Kanadzie said:


> Ontario and Quebec are central, anything west is West


Which may seem lopsided - Quebec's really pretty far east - but since Ontario and Quebec are by far the two most populated provinces, they're "Central." (I sometimes sigh at American weather forecasters who say "central Canada" while they're pointing at Saskatchewan....)


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Suburbanist said:


> Are bear encounters a risk on route 16? I mean, if you stop to take some pictures, should you be aware of bears near the road ready to attack?


Highway 16 isn't that remote, its surrounded by farms. Bears become an issue when the highway is lined with woods, and even then the large highways which run through that sort of terrain tend to have wildlife fences along the edges.


Ontario and Quebec are Central Canada, Newfoundland, PEI, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia are East, and then Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, and BC are west.


----------



## Gil

Where's a handy Venn Diagram when you need one?

For those unfamiliar with the postal abbreviations for the provinces and territories: 

AB - Alberta
BC - British Columbia
MB - Manitoba
NB - New Brunswick
NL - Newfoundland and Labrador
NT - Northwest Territories
NS - Nova Scotia
NU - Nunavut
ON - Ontario
PE - Prince Edward Island
QC - Quebec
SK - Saskatchewan
YT - Yukon Territory

North: YT, NT, NU (sometimes northern Quebec - Nunavik depending on what you're counting)
West: ((YT, NT, NU), ((BC), AB, SK, MB)) (BC is large enough to merit it's own category sometimes. The territories are only counted as "West" if using only East/West) 
If you're going by a strictly geographic context then sometimes BC, YT as several agencies will administer YT from BC.
Prairies: AB, SK, MB
Central: ON, QC (these two provinces are large enough they are sometimes counted separately depending on what you're counting)
East: ON, QC, NB, NS, PE, NL
Maritimes: NB, NS, PE
Atlantic: NB, NS, PE, NL
South (if anyone actually makes that distinction): BC, AB, SK, MB, ON, QC, NB, NS, PE, NL (essentially all the provinces)

I believe outside of Quebec, the Francophone community is strong in NB, ON and MB. Obviously the further from Quebec you go there is less of a Francophone influence. NB is the only officially bilingual province. ON has officially-designated bilingual areas across the province, hence the sporadic appearance of bilingual road signs. I know MB has a sizeable Francophone community but don't know what impact it would have if any one road signage.


----------



## Haljackey

British Colombia to increase penalties for left lane hogs

With this and their recent speed limit increases, I gotta say good for them! Hopefully they can enforce this, or maybe put up more keep 'right except to pass' signs.
-I'd also like to see 'don't hog the middle lane' signs/enforcement on 6+ lane highways one day.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...es-transportation-minister-promises-1.2979684


----------



## Colin145

Haljackey said:


> British Colombia to increase penalties for left lane hogs
> 
> With this and their recent speed limit increases, I gotta say good for them! Hopefully they can enforce this, or maybe put up more keep 'right except to pass' signs.
> -I'd also like to see 'don't hog the middle lane' signs/enforcement on 6+ lane highways one day.
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...es-transportation-minister-promises-1.2979684


Sounds good. Hopefully it works. Drive me mad trying to get past these morons!!! Get the middle lane hoggers too the just as bad!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Saskatchewan*

* PM announces support to Twin Highway 7 between Saskatoon and Delisle *

Prime Minister Stephen Harper today announced funding for the twinning of Saskatchewan’s Highway 7 to four lanes, west of Saskatoon to Delisle, which will generate economic and social benefits for the province. He was accompanied by Brad Wall, Premier of Saskatchewan.

Support through the New Building Canada Fund’s Provincial-Territorial Infrastructure Component, National and Regional Projects, will be used to twin approximately 26.5 kilometres of Highway 7 to four lanes and construct seven kilometres of a new four-lane divided highway.​
Press release: http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2015/03/12...-twin-highway-7-between-saskatoon-and-delisle


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Autoroute 19, Montréal*

In a report released Thursday morning, the Bureau d’audiences publiques sur l’environnement (BAPE) said that following a public consultation during which 43 briefs were submitted by various groups and individuals, it concluded “that a link between Highways 440 and 640 connecting Highway 19 to Highway 335 is justified.”

The report added, however, that a more in-depth comparative analysis is needed to decide whether the extension should be a highway, or an urban boulevard, before Quebec’s transport department makes a final decision.​
http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/bape-greenlights-highway-19-extension


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## Kanadzie

I love that "urban boulevard" concept... the road passes through empty farms and the ROW is protected for freeway, so... there can be no urban... only maybe, intersections instead of interchanges

that said the price of the project seems insanely high considering land cost is zero...


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## verreme

^^ Downgrading freeway projects to useless urban boulevards, even when the right-of-way is acquired, is a French speciality. Let's hope Québec doesn't get too influenced by them.


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## Kanadzie

^^ I am not sure who was first. The Autoroute 20 through the east side of Montreal was made into urban boulevard (Notre Dame St) in 1976, even though all the buildings on the north side for the depressed freeway were already demolished


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## MichiH

ChrisZwolle said:


> *PM announces support to Twin Highway 7 between Saskatoon and Delisle *Press release: http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2015/03/12...-twin-highway-7-between-saskatoon-and-delisle


Thanks. Unfortunately no info about estimated construction start. When could works begin, now, end of 2015, 2016, 2017,...?
Will the road be grade-separated?


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ It will likely be an at-grade twinned highway like most twinned highways in the prairie provinces.


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## Innsertnamehere

Autoroute 19 will be a motorway, it'll just have bus lanes and a bike path beside it from my understanding.


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## Kanadzie

The A-19 bus lanes as proposed are a hilarious greenwashing or whatever... the greens were saying how they would probably eventually be converted to general purpose lanes because the projected AADT on those lanes would be something like 500 vpd... but if there are only 500 buses, why need a bus lanes at all anyway?!

Idem for bike lanes, just look at a map, it is a waste of money for purely political ends... if anything a bike path along say Laurentian Boulevard would at least provide some reason to cycle there.


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## Innsertnamehere

update on the 406 widening by Sonysnob on SSP:



sonysnob said:


> Some construction photos of Highway 406 in Ontario through Welland. Despite the 400-series designation, Highway 406 was initially built as a two lane at-grade highway through Welland, and is only now, decades after initial construction, being widened to four lanes.
> 
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> Hwy 406 crossing over the Welland River and Old Welland Canal. It is interesting to note that despite being side by side, the Welland River and Old Canal have different water levels.
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> Northerly view towards the Merritt Road overpass. The Merritt Road overpass was constructed in 2011 in an advanced contract to expedite the twinning work.
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> Southerly view approaching Woodlawn Road. During construction, Highway 406 followed what will becoming the southbound on and off-ramps through the future interchange.
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> Southerly view between the twin Welland River bridges. The new bridge is at left.
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> The Merritt Road interchange was opened to traffic during 2013, two years in advance of the completion of the remainder of the highway.
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> One of the more noteworthy features of the 406 construction was the addition of a new three lane roundabout at East Main Street. This is the first three lane roundabout on a provincial highway in Ontario. (Though it is not the first three lane roundabout in Ontario -- that was constructed in K/W several years ago).
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> Overhead signage approaching the roundabout at East Main Street.
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> This view looks easterly along East Main Street towards the Main Street Tunnel. Highway 406 parallels the Welland Canal. Immediately east of the Highway 406 roundabout, East Main Street (Highway 7146) dives below the canal in the pictured tunnel.
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> Taken in January, 2015, this photo shows the southbound lanes of Highway 406 had just about been finished before construction was shut down over the winter.
> 
> The whole set of pictures (I took a lot), and larger versions of the photos are available here:
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/Hwy406_cons.htm#2012


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=6952889#post6952889


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## ChrisZwolle

The girders of an under-construction bridge across Groat Road in Edmonton buckled mysteriously. Groat Road is a major commuter route.

_On Friday, the city closed Groat Road so crews could install girders on the 102nd Avenue bridge. The closure was supposed to last a few days. But Monday morning, workers discovered four massive steel girders had buckled, meaning Groat Road would be blocked off for an additional three weeks._

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...-from-wind-lack-of-bracing-engineer-1.2999331


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## Innsertnamehere

401 as it passes to the north of Toronto. The highrises in the image form "North York City Centre", a new "city centre" created around the northern end of the Yonge Subway line.

image by Haljackey


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## Kanadzie

I love how Calgarians are (or at least were) for so long kind of in awe of Deerfoot, or at least talked about it like some giant road, then, boom, Hwy 401 in Sauga. Of course if you said that you'd probably get called "eastern bastard" or something but hey


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## Haljackey

Highway 401's new western terminus nearly open










A road to nowhere until a new bridge to USA is built.


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## JehovahNissi

*403 running thru Hamilton*


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## [atomic]

^^ lights on the poles? they seem pretty tall.


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## Colin145

[atomic] said:


> ^^ lights on the poles? they seem pretty tall.


It's because the light filament is roundish so the light comes out at lots of different angels so it spreads out. So theoretically the higher the light the more area it covers the less lights you need which saves money.


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## Kanadzie

Over the past years Ontario has been changing their lights to that type. They are absurdly tall but you won't see them from the road unless you look way way up :lol:


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## smokiboy

When heading westbound on the QEW from Toronto, I hate how at the 403 exit for Hamilton the QEW is reduced to two lanes from three. Because of that this area is always a bottleneck.


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## Kanadzie

That whole Halton Region QEW is a bottleneck

But yeah it opens up nicely along the QEW once you pass that. Hwy 403 speeds up and then stops soon after :/

I think it would be simple to just play with how Brant St lane-drops and the HOV ends and get a 3rd lane, there is probably even space since I think the QEW Niagara ramp is at ground level there.

The way the leftmost lane becomes open to trucks when the HOV ends I think is making most or all of the trouble. Since you have only 2 lanes you can't prohibit the trucks from going there, and sometimes they do, or at least, they need to get in the 2nd left (which is far left along the HOV section) so they can continue towards Niagara which most are. 

QEW Toronto the other way is 2 lanes but even at rush hour it seems okay (slowdown), it always jams more at like \1/ Guelph Line.


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## Haljackey

Photos of the Gardiner Expressway under construction:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-gardiner-under-construction/article24464154/

Toronto city council is currently debating the future of the east end of the expressway, which is underused and in bad shape. Decision expected next month. 

Some possible solutions:
Maintain (supported by former mayor Rob Ford)
Full rebuild / replacement
Replace with smaller / hybrid structure (supported by current mayor John Tory)
Remove, replace with at-grade grand avenue

Story: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ner-expressway-nears-endgame/article24425629/


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## ChrisZwolle

That section of the Gardiner hardly qualifies as 'underused' with 83,000 - 115,000 vehicles per day. OK, it's not the 401, but sufficient to justify a freeway with six lanes.


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## Innsertnamehere

and its currently set up with 8.

The big focus is on the use patterns of the highway, there is actually very little through traffic on the highway. The vast majority of users are getting off the highway to enter downtown, only around 20,000 cars a day actually drive across the entire thing. They are questioning the need of the grade seperated motorway if everyone is just getting off it to head into downtown anyway. The highway creates a horrible street presence anyway, and that area is about to experience a huge reconstruction, as the base infrastructure is going in today (sewage, etc.)


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## Haljackey

Fireworks along Hamilton's parkways last night


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## smokiboy

Kanadzie said:


> That whole Halton Region QEW is a bottleneck
> 
> But yeah it opens up nicely along the QEW once you pass that. Hwy 403 speeds up and then stops soon after :/
> 
> I think it would be simple to just play with how Brant St lane-drops and the HOV ends and get a 3rd lane, there is probably even space since I think the QEW Niagara ramp is at ground level there.
> 
> The way the leftmost lane becomes open to trucks when the HOV ends I think is making most or all of the trouble. Since you have only 2 lanes you can't prohibit the trucks from going there, and sometimes they do, or at least, they need to get in the 2nd left (which is far left along the HOV section) so they can continue towards Niagara which most are.
> 
> QEW Toronto the other way is 2 lanes but even at rush hour it seems okay (slowdown), it always jams more at like \1/ Guelph Line.



Yeah, they should widen the QEW (Niagara bound) at the 403 exit to 3 lanes. There is room for that, and it's not a long section, and inexpensive since all is at ground level.


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## Kanadzie

Innsertnamehere said:


> and its currently set up with 8.
> 
> The big focus is on the use patterns of the highway, there is actually very little through traffic on the highway. The vast majority of users are getting off the highway to enter downtown, only around 20,000 cars a day actually drive across the entire thing. They are questioning the need of the grade seperated motorway if everyone is just getting off it to head into downtown anyway. The highway creates a horrible street presence anyway, and that area is about to experience a huge reconstruction, as the base infrastructure is going in today (sewage, etc.)


There are always a lot of cars there though. It isn't at all like the underutilized section east of that that actually was torn down. A straight freeway connection between DVP and Gardiner is rather important IMO. Don't forget people going from DVP to downtown as well 

I think there can be massive improvement to the connections to downtown though. Many of the Gardiner exits are just clusters, like Spadina for example.


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## MichiH

ChrisZwolle said:


> * Work on new Kitchener-Guelph Highway 7 to begin this spring *
> 
> Ontario's Ministry of Transportation says it will soon have the land it needs to begin construction this spring on a new four-lane Highway 7 between Kitchener and Guelph.
> 
> Work to build the long-promised 18-kilometre highway will begin this spring and take "five construction seasons" to complete, putting the opening date sometime in 2020​Full report: http://www.therecord.com/news-story...chener-guelph-highway-7-to-begin-this-spring/





Innsertnamehere said:


> ==> MAPS


Initial work on new Kitchener-Guelph Hwy. 7 to start in June (30th May 2015)

The Ministry of Transportation is moving ahead with a new Highway 7 between Guelph and Kitchener and expects some advance construction underway this summer.
About 26,000 cars travel the current Highway 7 every day.
Bakalarczyk said property acquisitions are complete and two main projects will start soon ahead of the 18-kilometre build.
The Guelph Street overpass in Kitchener will be widened starting in June to eventually accept one of the ramps for the new highway. 
Utility relocations will also take place on the Victoria Street bridge and will continue in 2016. In 2017, the bridge will be replaced and extended.
n 2007, the most recent information available, the cost of the new Highway 7 was estimated at about $300 million. 


Where is the Guelph Street overpass, ON-85 bridge? I think that does not count as ON-7 construction begin but just advance construction. I guess the real construction begin will be in 2016, won't it? 5 construction seasons and opening in 2020.

*ON-7:* Kitchener-Wellington Street-West (ON-85) – Guelph-Hanlon Parkway 18km (2016 to 2020) – ? – map


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## Kanadzie

^^ I think they would be connecting the new Hwy 7 to Wellington St so they would widen the Conestoga Pkwy overpass over nearby Guelph St for ramps. It is weird though to refer to that structure as "Guelph St Overpass" as the structure supports the parkway and not Guelph St.

Looking at the proposed map they make a hugely expensive interchange that on the straight-through movement maintains traffic lights and relative crappyness. In Germany would just draw some loops on the existing grass, keeping the existing overpass and constructing nothing new and people would be fine driving 200 km/h there :lol:

And also Guelph St doensn't go to Guelph :lol: Crazy Ontario :lol:

I'm surprised though the issue of this road has gone on so long, that the traffic reached 26 000 vpd and still 2-lanes. I would have expected just a "4.5 lane" undivided road like Hwy 7 is in the Greater Toronto Area (or Hwy 10, or Dundas, etc). I guess the MTO realized a real freeway is needed, and planned for it, but because of the cost and political complexity it has been kicked around a few decades, instead of just throwing some asphalt on the ground.


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## Transportfan

Kanadzie;124585075
Looking at the proposed map they make a hugely expensive interchange that on the straight-through movement maintains traffic lights and relative crappyness.[/QUOTE said:


> What traffic lights? I see ramps.


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## sonysnob

I think the new interchange that's proposed between Hwy 7-New and Hwy 85 is designed to deliberately discourage traffic from continuing into K/W on Wellington Street. West of the Conestoga Parkway, Wellington Street turns into a residential street pretty quickly.

I've always postulated though, that the original and current Wellington Street interchange was designed with an eastern connection to a major roadway envisioned. The Wellington Street interchange is not really all that different from the original interchange that connected Hwy 8 to Hwy 7/8 at King Street further to the south.


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## keokiracer

Transportfan said:


> What traffic lights? I see ramps.


From left to right on that map through the interchange on the west.


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## Haljackey

Toronto City Council has voted to replace the eastern Gardiner Expressway with a hybrid option.




























First exciting thing to happen since Rob Ford. He was at the meeting in a track suit, and was as the only person who voted to maintain the existing structure. Everyone else wanted to demo it or go with the hybrid option


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## Kanadzie

My understanding of the "hybrid" option was that essentially no changes to the Gardiner, but re-alignment of Lake Shore Boulevard East to pass north of it to get rid of the jog.

(edit, OK I see it better now. Move the road a few feet to the south to put condo towers between it and the train tracks. Is this _really _useful ?)

The study proposed that considered the hybrid as the most expensive was pretty screwy, as the "remove" option had the highest capital expense (presumably to destroy the elevated structure)

It's mentioned a bit more in detail here : http://news.nationalpost.com/full-c...down-the-gardiner-there-is-no-500m-in-savings

I really hate the anti-car politicking though, with all this "Champs-Elysées" talk... if they got rid of the highway and put a boulevard, it would look like Lake Shore Boulevard E near Leslie, to which it would immediately connect to and be part of, in other words, a crappy road through a dump wasteland (though admittedly, eventually, a crappy congested road through a forest of condos) Champs-Elysees, really ? :lol:

I have to admit I am reasonably pleased with Mr Tory in his role here. He is just totally normal, a normal mayor of a big city, with normal ideas and normal life, it is so strange to observe but wonderful


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## sonysnob

^ Agree. My torrid love affair with John Tory continues.

I think people are looking at the boulevard with rose coloured glasses. I think it'd probably function, but there would be a regular and lengthy queue of cars at every traffic signal. Additionally, traffic signal operations would have to designed in order to favour vehicular movements over those of pedestrians, as there I can't see there being much residual capacity at any of the signals (particularly when you factor in left turn movements). The urban boulevard would not have been the iddelic space that it was portrayed to be in the mock ups, in reality it would be chronically congested and probably not that pedestrian friendly.


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## Innsertnamehere

the plan in place had assumed crossing setups that gave a midpoint between pedestrians and drivers.


Both options involve complete demolition of the existing structure from my understanding, the hybrid just involves rebuilding it. Capital costs were also slightly lower for the boulevard, not the hybrid.


The boulevard would have been extremely similar to what we see on University Avenue today, but with higher traffic levels. The key to making high traffic boulevards pedestrian freindly is to make sure there are wide sidewalks that are lined with mature trees. Another good example of a high traffic pedestrian freindly street would be Yonge Street in North York, which is 6 lanes wide with extremely high traffic levels and is very pedestrian friendly.

In the end I was torn on the issue, but was leaning remove. I'm not particularly upset they chose the hybrid, the inner driver of me kind of likes it, but my realist side pushes me to think that the boulevard would have been the better choice.


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## ChrisZwolle

The 'boulevard' option was unrealistically presented as just another idyllic city boulevard.

In reality it would've been an overloaded wide urban arterial to handle 120,000+ vehicles per day. That is current Gardiner traffic (112,000) + Lake Shore Boulevard traffic + future traffic growth due to new developments. That's not pedestrian-friendly at all. A six-lane urban boulevard would not have been sufficient to handle that kind of traffic.

It would've carried *much* more traffic than any other urban boulevard in Toronto. Eglinton Avenue just nicks 50,000 vpd, and Bloor just touches the 50,000 mark near the DVP as well. University Avenue carries 59,000 vehicles per day on its eight-lane segment.

In fact, there are no precedents in North America for urban streets with that kind of traffic volumes.


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## Suburbanist

Such boulevard would be an immediate air pollution and noise hotspot.


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## ChrisZwolle

Philadelphia's Roosevelt Boulevard (US 1) carries 80,000 vehicles per day on 12 lanes:









Wilshire Avenue in Los Angeles carries 120,000 vehicles per day between the I-405 interchange and Veteran Avenue and 84,000 vehicles per day until the next intersection. The Veteran Avenue intersection is said to be the busiest traffic light-controlled intersection in the United States. From what I understand it is congested throughout the day.


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## Innsertnamehere

Traffic levels would drop from removal like they have on other freeway removals (west side highway, embarcadero). The 112,000 number would likely have dropped significantly.

Also, traffic levels on the downtown freeways have remained largely unchanged for the last few decades. 95% of new trips into the downtown are made by transit, largely because there isn't any new capacity being built and the existing network is "full"

The little growth that has occurred has been in counter peak traffic, as the downtown population has increased hugely in the last decade leading to more people driving to suburban jobs.


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## keokiracer

Innsertnamehere said:


> Traffic levels would drop from removal like they have on other freeway removals (west side highway, embarcadero). The 112,000 number would likely have dropped significantly.


You mean all that through traffic that apparently wasn't there to begin with?


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## ChrisZwolle

60,000 is really the upper limit at which six-lane arterials still function. Otherwise you would need very large intersections.


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## Innsertnamehere

It was planned to be an 8 lane Boulevard.

Regardless, they are keeping the freeway.


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## Kanadzie

They'll keep the freeway but this debate is NOT over :lol:


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## Suburbanist

Innsertnamehere said:


> It was planned to be an 8 lane Boulevard.
> 
> Regardless, they are keeping the freeway.


The problem is now how many lanes the boulevard has, but the intersections. 

It irks me when people proposing freeway teardowns (I'm not referring to you) go there and say "oh, traffic will always find a way". Of course it will, cars can't suddenly fly and drivers won't stay on 5h/direction traffic jams, but that doesn't mean the traffic readjustment doesn't have wider repercussions, such as make an area less accessible by car and therefore its jobs less accessible to people living far away.

So it is no surprise proponents of most freeway demolitions are mostly people for whom long-distnace commuting doesn't exist (and many are outright hostile at the notion thousands of workers in 'their' neighborhood just come and go each day without 'being part of the local walkable community and contributing to it') 

Toronto also doesn't have a super public transportation system, it has the GO system, light rail and laughable buses.


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## Kanadzie

I wouldn't call Toronto's public transit as not-super, it is pretty good and a lot of people (an absudly high number of people even) use it. The continued use of streetcars though is archaic and makes life difficult unnecessarily (cars need to stop when they unload people, cyclists get their tyres stuck in the rails, and every time it is cold, they break down)

But even then, there is congestion in the public transit too, induced demand I guess  They have been talking of constructing a second subway line in the downtown area as a bypass for the existing congested subway line. But the extension project underway of the north-south line to the north has had such large delays and cost overruns (as always) and is running in a simple area (not intensely developed as downtown), I am not optimistic it would be built. But the construction of that line was considered as a requirement in the "boulevard" concept....

Long-distance commuting is a fact of life in the area as well, an inevitable result of a very large population and a urban area necessarily "flattened" by the presence of the lake. I would consider a commute to work of 50 km in one direction to be rather short 

*** Oh and that Bloor near the DVP (after the cancelled freeway ramps) is total hell. I remember once getting stuck there in traffic in the summer, on a Saturday, in 20 minutes I don't think I moved 20 metres. I never again went there :lol:


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## NFZANMNIM

^^ yeah much faster just taking Avenue Road downtown instead during rush hours.


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## Suburbanist

1966 road time-lapse movie by the Department of Transporation of British Columbia (they have more stuff in their channel)





.


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## Suburbanist

more


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## Kanadzie

Suburbanist said:


> 1966 road time-lapse movie by the Department of Transporation of British Columbia (they have more stuff in their channel)
> 
> .


Note how they refer to the road as "Hwy 401"


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## Haljackey

Interesting photos of when Toronto demolished the eastern Gardiner.










More pics
http://www.blogto.com/city/2015/06/that_time_when_toronto_demolished_the_gardiner/


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## Haljackey

Canada's first diverging diamond is coming to Calgary

http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/14...iamond-interchange-with-traffic-on-left-side/


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## Kanadzie

weird they decided on that

I thought they had planed a parclo with double loops on the south side of 162nd

See the reserved ROW with plenty space:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/C...0x537170039f843fd5:0x266d3bb1b652b63a!6m1!1e1

Anyway I can't wait to see a freeway Macleod Trail to Anderson road and beyond! 
Now if only they could put the speed back to 110...


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## MattiG

ChrisZwolle said:


> PPP projects may overall be slightly more expensive than government projects (they want some profit and governments can generally borrow money at lower interest rates), but the benefits of having infrastructure completed much faster or earlier are also significant.
> 
> This is major factor which I think is not highlighted enough in for example Germany. They only focus on the cost of PPP projects, but not on the additional benefits. Especially with the big difference in construction speed between PPP and conventionally funded projects in Germany. Conventionally funded projects are almost always constructed at an excessively slow pace.
> 
> Having an infrastructure fund also helps speeding up the construction pace, as it is not as dependent on the annual budget cycle - provided the fund is adequately funded. One major benefit is that the entire funding is available for construction, not just blocks of funding allocated separately each year from the general budget.


For years, the bureaucrats in the Ministry of Finance in Finland have been against the PPP model. Officially, the reason is the higher interest cost. The real reason is that the PPP model reduce the power of those people. At moment of the sign-off the PPP model, the money is no more subject to the annual budget games.


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## Haljackey

ChrisZwolle said:


> *Map: Edmonton’s most-needed interchanges*
> 
> According to a city report, the Capital City needs 66 new or significantly updated interchanges over the next 30 to 50 years.
> 
> Due to the rate at which Edmonton is growing, the report says the changes and additions are needed to help manage traffic issues.
> 
> The report pegs the cost of the 66 projects between $4 billion and $7 billion.​
> http://globalnews.ca/news/1615694/map-edmontons-most-needed-interchanges/


What the heck is going on with Terwillegar Drive? Is it just me or does it seem like those are way too close together? Could cause some weaving issues.

Making Yellowhead (16) a fully grade separated road and extending the QE2 to Whitemud Drive would really help out with traffic issues within the city.

Edmonton is also investing heavily in LRT, but freeways still seem to be the preferred transportation network in the suburbs.


Shorter term targets from the same story


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## Kanadzie

I think Terwilligar is supposed to end up like Whitemud, with overpasses on the crossroads for the mainline and the current road becoming ramps / diamond interchanges

so I don't know... there are only 4 streets between Whitemud and Henday and the area is developed so no roads from nowhere...

What's that other trasa N-S... Manning Freeway (nothing of the sort) and 75 St?


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## Kanadzie

Quebec's Transport Ministry is making a study of the project for Autoroute 19 extension in Laval, Quebec, to reduced from 4 lane freeway + inner bus lanes to simple lane additions to existing at-grade expressway.

News article (French language)
http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2015/08/06/un-boulevard-plutot-quune-autoroute-pour-prolonger-la19

MTQ website:
http://www.projetsmajeurs.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/projets-routiers/autoroute19/Pages/default.aspx

sketch from news site:


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## NFZANMNIM

^^ no sign of the trail in the urban boulevard plan? seems kind of a lack of use of the MTQ property.


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## Kanadzie

True but the use of that trail is skeptical. It's quite a deserted area as it ended up designated "farmland" between the heavily urbanized Montreal island and Bois des Fillion.
Though there is some use by snowmobiles I believe in winter.

I think the MTQ was recommended to study an "urban boulevard" plan by the BAPE (environmental public hearings) and so this is what they are thinking to compare.
It may well just be "smoke" to placate the political opposition. The MTQ press release stipulates that they have a requirement, from "the first step, to solve the congestion problem on this segment"
As noted in the JdeM article though, the projected costs of the A-19 project have ballooned up towards 700 MM $ despite no RoW acquisition and minimal project scope...


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## Innsertnamehere

plan for a 4km stretch of the transcanada in BC.. this stretch is east of Golden, BC, closing the gap between two existing 4 lane sections. The stretch is largely considered to be one of the most difficult in the province to widen.


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## ChrisZwolle

A muddy Trans-Canada Highway in Saskatchewan near the Manitoba border / Une section boueuse sur la route Transcanadienne en Saskatchewanen près de la frontière du Manitoba by Library and Archives Canada / Bibliothèque et Archives Canada, on Flickr

August 6, 1954 – Saskatchewan

Welcome to Saskatchewan!

“…All of the border of Manitoba and Saskatchewan the average road turned into a downright bad road, dried mud, stones lying on the road, dips and holes. It really was in a bad state.”


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## Kanadzie

I ate lunch in Moosomin and slept in Regina maybe 3 weeks ago 

The road today is quite nice, wide, divided 4 lanes.


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## ChrisZwolle

I wonder why they signed Lac La Ronge 562 miles (I suppose) in advance...


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## sonysnob

Twice in the past two years I have found the opportunity to be up in the Thunder Bay region of Ontario. I have taken these opportunities to take some photos of the recently twinned Trans-Canada Highway between Thunder Bay and Pass Lake. Highway 11/17 was widened to four lanes over this ~30km stretch over the past few years and was fully opened late last fall. I have placed some small photos below and have included a link to a webpage that I have authored with more photos and larger versions of the photos that appear below:























































http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/Hwy11_p5b_images.htm


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## sonysnob

Kanadzie said:


> Quebec's Transport Ministry is making a study of the project for Autoroute 19 extension in Laval, Quebec, to reduced from 4 lane freeway + inner bus lanes to simple lane additions to existing at-grade expressway.
> 
> News article (French language)
> http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2015/08/06/un-boulevard-plutot-quune-autoroute-pour-prolonger-la19
> 
> MTQ website:
> http://www.projetsmajeurs.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/projets-routiers/autoroute19/Pages/default.aspx
> 
> sketch from news site:


Building a proper highway in this corridor seems like a no-brainer. The right-of-way has been reserved for it, and no doubt the development that has been built in the area was contingent on the transportation capacity that A-19 would provide. The only thing that I don't understand about the astronomical is project is the cost. Has there been any press about why this project would cost so much? It seems other than the river crossing at the north end, this project shouldn't be all that difficult to implement.


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## sonysnob

ChrisZwolle said:


>


If this is the plan that is executed, will this make Yellowhead Trail a fully grade separated freeway throughout the city? That seems like it should be the long term goal.


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## Kanadzie

sonysnob said:


> Building a proper highway in this corridor seems like a no-brainer. The right-of-way has been reserved for it, and no doubt the development that has been built in the area was contingent on the transportation capacity that A-19 would provide. The only thing that I don't understand about the astronomical is project is the cost. Has there been any press about why this project would cost so much? It seems other than the river crossing at the north end, this project shouldn't be all that difficult to implement.


I really don't know either - the interchange at Hwy 640 is just paving the graded loops, the bridge over the 1000 islands river is really just widening the existing one, which is more a glorified culvert than a bridge (not at all comparable to the St Lawrence bridges in Montreal), all land is already owned and relatively flat, and there are only like 2-3 parclos going to be made in between.

Didn't Alberta build the whole SE Calgary Stoney Trail with the massive cloverstack Deerfoot interchange, several interchanges and much longer distance for not much more (769 million compared to 707 million), including maintenance for 30 years? With Alberta labour prices? :lol: I guess the corruption of "Commission Charbonneau" is still alive and well, despite the fat man remaining in Panama graveyard :lol:

The projected cost of the "boulevard" option is even more crazy, so much cash for a few feet of asphalt next to the existing, probably even re-using the existing traffic lights :lol:

Old news from a month ago, but archaeological remains have been found in preperatory work for the Turcot Interchange rebuild:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...-work-unearths-18th-century-village-1.3158875

In background you can see ramps of the Turcot and the "underground" parking garage of the new McGill superhospital


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## Innsertnamehere

The Bonaventure Expressway in Montreal coming down. The last 600 metres or so of the highway before terminating in the middle of Downtown Montreal are in the process of being demolished and replaced with a new urban boulevard. the location in the photo is where the new ramp to ground level will be upon completion of the project.


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## ssiguy2

This is what Toronto should have done with the Gardiner.


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## Innsertnamehere

Gardiner didn't really dead end like the Bonaventure does however. The A-10 already makes a connection to the 720 as well, making it sort of a truly useless freeway.


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## Kanadzie

^^ that's not exactly correct - the A-10 _used _to directly connect to A-720 just before the Bonaventure (A-10) ended. Now the highway will end several blocks earlier and if you want to go from A-10 to 720 east you will need to stay on the surface streets that seem to be essentially as they were before, though I think they are adding a lane on either side (6 lane freeway, replace with 2 extra surface street lanes LOL)

The idea in Montreal is basically like the debated Gardiner teardown in Toronto. But, I would consider the link of the Gardiner and DVP to be much more important than the 10-720 link... but it may only be as I have done the Toronto movemement a hundred times and the 10-720 one maybe a half dozen despite living in Montreal for a quarter century :lol: (but... on the other side of the city) 

The A-10 never had a 720 West direct link, but it is an awkward / useless movement anyhow as the 10 veers east as it enters the island, westbound traffic would take Hwy 15 N / 20 W to stay on Hwy 20 at the Turcot interchange.


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## Innsertnamehere

to be fair the connection to the 720 is northbound only and the 720 ends shortly north of the connection.. its one dead end highway connecting to another dead end highway..


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## Kanadzie

that`s correct

or really... east(north) Bonaventure to east Ville-Marie tunnel, west Ville-Marie tunnel to west (south) Bonaventure

Ville-Marie does end some distance away, but it is a huge distance viz. the alternative of the surface streets... sometimes the tunnels are closed at night for maintenance and the surface roads get tremendously congested even at like midnight.


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## sonysnob

I agree. If A-720 actually connected to A-25 as it was originally intended, then the demolition of the Bonaventure would bother me. As it stands right now, it doesn't bother me that there will be a few traffic signals between the 10 and the Ville-Marie.

On an aside, I wish there was something that could be done with the A-20 designation through Montreal. I recognize that the Ville Marie is never going to get completed east of where it currently terminates, but it would be nice if A-20 didn't follow such a convoluted routing through the city.


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## Kanadzie

^^
There is a "20 Ouest" direction sign on de Maisonneuve Blvd and St Mathieu St in downtown Montreal pointing towards the Fort St onramp of the westbound Ville-Marie 720. I wonder how long it has been there, I know it's been there at least 10 years... I would think - before the eastern side was cancelled by the PQ in 1977, but then - the direction tab is "Ouest" and not "Ouest / West" as it was previous to Bill 101... wouldn't be surprised if the City of Montreal has just been replacing the sign when in poor shape continually with what was there before, regardless of what it is meaning to say...

The Notre-Dame St section after the end of the expressway and the short "Ville-Marie Blvd." is really bad in the rush hours, it barely moves. It is strange as it is one of the only roads in the entire Montreal region that has reasonably timed traffic signals. It is a weird thing in the world that the traffic is terrible, but then, as you approach downtown, it suddenly goes from dead stop to 100 - 120 km/h freedom into the tunnel and that straight across the downtown core :lol:

I actually think that the freeway will eventually be built along the original plans. 15 years ago there was a lot of talk of building the full freeway (ironically, under a PQ government) There was a lot of talk about 10 years ago of some kind of "hybrid" (basically - widening Notre-Dame St and a diamond interchange at Pie-IX Boulevard) but it died quickly as anti-car type didn't like and it wasn't a viable solution. But all the land is waiting for it, and the Port of Montreal / trucker's association are consistently pushing for it. It's not something like the Gardiner through Scarborough to meet Kingston Rd / 2A where there are land issues / costs and not much vocal people wanting it.

But, the MTQ a few years ago changed all the signs along the south-shore Hwy 20 / 132 (430) from the original "1, 2 3" to the Hwy 20 ones (80's etc) so maybe not...


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## Ukraine

sonysnob said:


> Twice in the past two years I have found the opportunity to be up in the Thunder Bay region of Ontario. I have taken these opportunities to take some photos of the recently twinned Trans-Canada Highway between Thunder Bay and Pass Lake. Highway 11/17 was widened to four lanes over this ~30km stretch over the past few years and was fully opened late last fall. I have placed some small photos below and have included a link to a webpage that I have authored with more photos and larger versions of the photos that appear below:
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very nice pictures! I miss driving that stretch of the road and damn it has changed!!


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## chuckw2010

Fargo Wolf said:


> Many of the passes used by the Interstate Highways aren't steep, thus the need for tunnels is greatly reduced. Aside from the construction of I 70 through Glenwood Canyon in the 70s and the Boston Artery Tunnel Project in the late 90s/ early 2000s there were no major projects. The Eisenhower Tunnel was one of the few that were required because of mountainous terrain.
> 
> Fast forward to today. There's only two significant projects. The first, is in California on Hwy 101. This twin tube tunnel will bypass the notorious Devils Slide area. The initial plan, was to simply look at upgrading the existing highway, but it was found that that would have very little, if any benefit. The tunnel, though expensive to build, will result in long term savings.
> 
> The second, is the replacement of Seattle's Alaska Way Viaduct. Though not on a major highway, this project is expected to improve traffic flow through Seattle, as well as getting rid of a structure that is literally, a hairs breadth away from being condemned.


i read they a re finally getting the tunnel boring machine underway after a 2 year stoppage.


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## chuckw2010

canada really needs to improve the highway thru the rockie mountains from banff onward. too narrow and dangerous.


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## Innsertnamehere

There is a lot of work already underway for that, buts its 300+km of highway through a very rocky area.. to properly upgrade it will take billions of dollars. It takes time with costs like that.


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## zaphod

Some of the driving distances in Northern Ontario must be mind numbing considering how empty that area is.


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## Kanadzie

^^ I've done it a few times. It isn't really so bad except for the speed limit of 90 km/h / 56 mph and aggressive police enforcement, especially on some of the new twinned sections. You can go 100-110 and be relatively safe, but that's still really hard for me. There are a lot of curves, hills, lakes, trees and some spectacular scenery as it climbs up and down around the lakes, breaking up a lot of monotony.


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## sonysnob

zaphod said:


> Some of the driving distances in Northern Ontario must be mind numbing considering how empty that area is.


The drive along Hwy 17 is terrible, as it is at least fairly scenic. Hwy 11 on the other hand is mind numbingly boring, particularly between Longlac and Cochrane.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 63, Alberta*

*Portion of Highway 63 set to open Monday*

The highway from Edmonton to Fort McMurray will be closed for a short time Monday as crews get set to open a portion of the newly twinned road.

Officials said the section of Highway 63 from the 11 kilometre mark to the 63 kilometre mark will be opening however delays should be expected to begin at 11 a.m.​
Full report: http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/portion-of-highway-63-set-to-open-monday-1.2519608

Highway 63 is the road from Edmonton to Fort McMurray.


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## sonysnob

A few new photos taken of the construction along the Highway 407 corridor in Durham Region. Construction is moving along well, but I am still not certain if they can finish the highway by the start of winter this year:









View of the then un-opened Brock Road interchange from the future Highway 407 overpass. (The Brock Road interchange opened the day after these photos were taken).










View looking easterly approaching the Sideline 14 overpass.









Easterly view from the Sideline 14 overpass









Not everyone is excited about the extension of the 407.









View of the Lake Ridge Road overpass with the temporary Lake Ridge Road diversion operated adjacent to the new overpass









This steel structure will carry the ramp from Hwy 412 north to Hwy 407 west.









View looking westerly approaching the Hwy 12 overpass. Paving operations had just commenced in this area when this photo was taken.









Easterly view approaching the Simcoe Street overpass.









Additional view of the Simcoe Street overpass from the future southbound to eastbound loop ramp.

For the full set, and full resolution versions of the above photos, click here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/Hwy407_ConstructionImages.htm#Aug15


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## Kanadzie

^^ Earlier this year I was travelling with a coworker and we hit 401 traffic... so I said, hey, let's take the 407... where does it start... oh... Brock Road... went up Brock Road in Whitby, crossed the 407 construction site... we are here, but the highway isn't ready for us yet ! :lol:


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## ChrisZwolle

*CatchNET system*

I found this on the interwebs. A catch net to stop runaway trucks on steep inclines. They are in use on Highway 11 in North Bay, Ontario, and several locations in Wyoming.


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## Kanadzie

looks kind of scary... are the bypassed trucks deliberately avoided the dangerous looking thing and died? yikes...
maybe they need a big sign "hit the fences!"


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## Innsertnamehere

photo of mine from July showing Highway 35 as it winds through the lakes of Haliburton and Muskoka.. This is taken from the Dorset Fire Tower, which was constructed in the 1950's to keep watch for forest fires. It has since been converted into a popular tourist attraction, especially in the fall when the leaves begin to turn colour.

The town in the photo is Dorset, Ontario, and the bridge is currently being rebuilt. The modern Highway 35 runs to the left bypassing the town, while the old 35 runs through the town over a 90 year old single lane bridge.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Perimeter Highway, Winnipeg*

*PROVINCE ANNOUNCES CONSTRUCTION BEGINS ON NEW INTERCHANGE AT INTERSECTION OF PTH 59 AND PTH 101*

Construction is underway on a new, state-of-the-art interchange at the intersection of PTH 59 and PTH 101, which will increase safety for motorists, greatly improve traffic flow and help ensure Manitoba’s key infrastructure continues to support its growing economy, Premier Greg Selinger announced today.

The $204-million contract was awarded to Flatiron Construction Canada Ltd. after a competitive bidding process and it is expected the project will create 2,320 jobs and be completed by the fall of 2018, Premier Selinger said.​
Full press release: http://news.gov.mb.ca/news/index.html?archive=&item=35950

Interchange design:










Present-day interchange:


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## Kanadzie

^^ definitely the weirdest interchange in the country.
I always wondered why they didn't finish paving that loop to let the left turn go over the overpass instead of the double left turn lane. The movement is like 90% complete but then, no.


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## ChrisZwolle

If you look closely:


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## sonysnob

^ I could be mistaken, but I think the loop from north-59 to west-101 was in service until the northeast leg of Hwy 101 was completed. For several years, the perimeter highway operated only as a three quarter loop, without a completed highway between PTH-59 and TCH-1.


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## ChrisZwolle

A segment of upgraded Highway 69 in Ontario will open to traffic next week, from Alban to Highway 637.

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/regions/ontario/2015/09/04/002-inauguration-autre-troncon-route-69.shtml


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## Kanadzie

^^
It is interesting to observe the usage of word "autoroute" and "route" in Ontario (French language)

Typically motorway is correctly called autoroute by provincial signs you see around (like - "autoroute 401 fermeture de nuit") and normal roads route (route 17 construction mai-octobre)

Admittedly the French used on Ontario road signs themselves is often weirdly written ("bandes médianes striées" instead of "bande médiane rugueuse" par exemple, or the temporary orange/white construction flip signs around the GTA)

So something like Hwy 69 would always be called (by people and province) as "route 69"
But now since it is being opened a motorway, Radio-Canasta wrote "autoroute 69" 

I dunno, I just find it interesting. It is kind of like the Quebec system of "autoroutes" and "routes", which Anglophone Quebec residents universally call "Highway" like their Ontario cousins. Except, Quebec would never mix autoroute and route (e.g. the Hwy 116 freeway segment in south shore Montreal is not normally called "autoroute 116")


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## ChrisZwolle

Isn't Highway 69 supposed to be renumbered to Highway 400 at some point anyway? In that case, calling the upgraded part an autoroute / freeway isn't so strange.


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## Kanadzie

Looking at the map, it looks like it starts where Hwy 400 ends presently
in which case I would bet the new segment would wear Hwy 400 signs on opening day
Which just makes the article reference to 69 weirder !

I really need to get up there soon and grab a Hwy 69 route shield for my basement. I know I`m a teenager at heart :lol:


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## ChrisZwolle

The quoted section to open is actually farther north, an extension south of Sudbury, not north from existing Highway 400. From Alban to Highway 637.


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## sonysnob

^ This was taken at the Murdock River Bridge along Highway 69 back in June.


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## sonysnob

Some new pictures of Autoroute 20 east of Wolf River, QC. These photos were taken on a road trip that I took back in May. The two-lane extension of Autoroute 20 from east of Cacouna to Trois-Pistoles is scheduled to open this fall, so these photos are definitely a bit out of date:








































































Full resolution, and more photos are available here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/20/Page9.htm


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## ChrisZwolle

Nice photos. It's quite a trip for you to go all the way to eastern Québec I suppose. 

Trois-Pistoles sounds like Three Pistols. There's a Gunbarrel City in Texas


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## sonysnob

^ I spent a couple of days cruising around eastern Quebec back in May. I have to drive a pretty long distance to find any new roads in Canada these days. I quite like driving through Quebec though, it's a very pretty province, and they are building lots of new things to check out.


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## Innsertnamehere

a 9km portion of the Highway 69 twinning south of Sudbury, Ontario opened today. While there is still another 90km to go until full completion, the highway will eventually be resigned as Highway 400, bringing the 400 series highway network to Sudbury.

http://www.northernlife.ca/news/localNews/2015/09/11-hwy-69-four-laning-sudbury.aspx


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## Kanadzie

^^


> "When that day happens, it will be a boon for us economically," he said. "When you're part of the 400 series of highways, it completely changes the perception of where we are in terms of southern Ontario."


The psychological aspect is really true. I've been in Sudbury many times, but when I'm in Toronto to think of Sudbury, it might as well be the North Pole :lol:
Probably when they put up the signs Hwy 400, they will start advertising residential subdivisions (_36 foot homes starting in the low 500's!_) in Sudbury on GTA media to take advantage of our property addiction. :lol:


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## sonysnob

I know, a lot of people in southern Ontario really act like Sudbury is at the north pole. In reality, with the 400 it will be reliably a three hour drive from the 401 to Hwy 17.

One of the biggest pains with Hwy 69 right now is that they are redoing the French River Bridge, with single lane alternating flow. The last time I went up to Sudbury, (the friday of the August Long Weekend), there was quite a delay to get through. It's too bad they couldn't have waited to repair the current French River Bridge until after the new French River bridges had been opened.


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## Kanadzie

I ran into many of those along Hwy 17 in July
The small culverts were OK, a short wait, but I got stuck at in a 15 or 20 minute lineup (blocked both ways to let some machine move) on one small bridge. People were all standing around along the road waiting.
only after moving did I pass the sign "road work expect delays" :lol:

But hey, at least a few minutes wait and not a Montreal-style "super-poutre" chaos :lol:


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## Montrealer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Trois-Pistoles sounds like Three Pistols. There's a Gunbarrel City in Texas


In French, a pistole is a gold coin that was used in the 16th and 17th century. According to local legend, someone lost a goblet worth three pistoles in the river, hence the name.


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## ChrisZwolle

B.C. Highway 20.


Tsilhqot'in Nation Sign unveiling by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr


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## Bruno Rapha

Nice pics.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 63, Alberta*

*Getting closer to a fully twinned Highway 63 *

*A new 32-kilometre section of twinned highway means the twinning of Highway 63 is now 70 per cent complete. *

The newly-twinned segment is the third section to open this year, providing a total of 168 kilometres of four-lane highway for motorists. The twinning will run through House River from the 96 to 128 kilometre markers.

The Government of Alberta is on track to complete 240 kilometres of twinning between Grassland and Fort McMurray by fall 2016. When completed, the province will have spent an estimated $1.2 billion on the twinning project.​
Full press release: http://alberta.ca/release.cfm?xID=3857008317C50-D206-17B4-0036F3793555288D

I'm guessing this is practically a freeway, given the fact that it runs through the middle of nowhere. There don't seem to be any interchanges outside of Fort McMurray though.


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## Haljackey

401/403/410 loop going in!










https://www.flickr.com/photos/vaughanweather/21210842219/sizes/k/


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## Innsertnamehere

The work underway there is desperately needed, happy to see it happening.


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## sonysnob

A couple of photos of the interchange between Highway 401 and Highway 412 Toll in Whitby. These images were taken by me. I'd prefer to be putting these up on my website (maybe one day I will), but it's just faster to do it this way:

View looking easterly from the Lake Ridge Road overpass:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...5/10-Oct/401_cl_407_east_WB_t_Oct15_24x16.jpg


View underneath the future ramp that will carry traffic between the eastbound 401 and Highway 412 northbound:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...ructure_407-5_southwest-under_Sep15_24x16.jpg


Easterly view along Highway 401 from the 401 EB -> 412 NB ramp








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...15/10-Oct/401_cl_407-5_east_t_Oct15_24x16.jpg


Westerly view along Highway 401 from the ramp that will carry traffic from the 412 SB -> 401 EB:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...015/10-Oct/401_cl_408_west_WB_Oct15_24x16.jpg


View of the unfinished ramp that will carry traffic from the 412 SB -> 401 EB. The concrete deck screed is visible at the far side of the overpass:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...ct/401_cl_408_east_rebar-ramp_Oct15_24x16.jpg


View looking beneath the above ramp:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...401_structure_108_under_south_Oct15_24x16.jpg


View from the Henry Street overpass in Whitby. Note the lane shifts through the construction. There was a pretty terrible collision through here the other night, where a transport truck slammed into queued traffic that had slowed due to night construction. 3 people were killed, and more than a dozen more were injured.








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...2015/10-Oct/401_cl_409_west_t_Oct15_24x16.jpg


Finally, this is the Henry Street overpass itself. It is scheduled to be replaced starting next year. It is one of the oldest highway overpasses in the province.








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...-Oct/401_cl_410_west_onramp_t_Oct15_24x16.jpg


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## sonysnob

The 407 at the 427 just northeast of Toronto in the GTA. This is one of only a handful of four-level interchanges in Canada:


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## Innsertnamehere

It's a 3 stack is it not? I thought the 400/407 interchange was the only full 4 stack interchange?


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## sonysnob

You're correct that the only true four level (semi-directional) stack interchange in Canada is between the 400 and 407. But this is still a four-level interchange.

Level One: Highway 407 ETR
Level Two: Highway 427
Level Three: Ramp 427 NB -> 407 WB
Level Four: Ramp 407 WB -> 427 SB


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## MichiH

I'd like to update my list of u/c motorways.

It was announced that the subsequent sections should be completed by the end of 2015:

*QC-A410:* Sherbrooke-Rue Belvedere Sud – Lennoxville (QC-143) ~3km (2012 to Fall 2015) – project – map
*QC-A85:* Note-Dame-du-Lac – Lac Martin 7.5km (2012 to Fall 2015) – project – map
*ON-407:* Pickering-Brock Road – Oshawa-Harmony Road 22km (2013 to December 2015) – project – map
*ON-412:* Whitby (ON-407) – Whitby (ON-401) 10km (2013 to December 2015) – project – map

Are the projects still on schedule, is there any estimated opening date?
Some project page links have been changed. Does anyone know the new links?


I think the construction of an additional project began earlier this year (source):

*QC-A73:* Beauceville – Saint-Georges-North 13km (April 2015 to Fall 2016) – ? – map

Is my data correct?


I also found an old news article about an extension of QC-A70 (motorway standard) but I don't get it because my French is limited. There are a 3.9km, a 1.5km and a 2.2km motorway sections under construction, aren't they!?
Could anyone provide the data for my list like the QC-A73 data (from..to.. length.. construction begin... estimated opening... project page... map...)?




smokiboy said:


> from the Toronto Star, dated 7 April 2015:
> 
> $1.2 billion contract awarded to extend Highway 407 in Durham
> 
> * Construction will begin this fall*, Ontario transportation minister Steve Del Duca said Tuesday, promising the road will be publicly-owned and have lower tolls than private 407 ETR.
> 
> http://www.thestar.com/news/queensp...contract-awarded-to-extend-407-in-durham.html


It was announced to be started this fall. I think the project page is not up-to-date. Is there any updated info about the estimated construction beginning?

*ON-407:* Oshawa-Harmony Road – Solina (ON-418) 8.2km (Fall 2015 to Late 2017) – project – map
*ON-418:* Solina (ON-407) – Hampton-Taunton Road 1.1km (Fall 2015 to Late 2017) – project – map
*ON-407:* Solina (ON-418) – Clarington-Kirby (ON-35) 13.0km (Fall 2015 to Late 2020) – project – map
*ON-418:* Hampton-Taunton Road – Clarington/Oshawa (ON-401) 9.0km (Fall 2015 to Late 2020) – project – map


Are there more motorway or expressway section under construction which are not yet in my list?


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## Haljackey

Innsertnamehere said:


> It's a 3 stack is it not? I thought the 400/407 interchange was the only full 4 stack interchange?





sonysnob said:


> You're correct that the only true four level (semi-directional) stack interchange in Canada is between the 400 and 407. But this is still a four-level interchange.


401-403-410 is also a 4 level interchange with stack characteristics with all the flyover ramps.

427-QEW-Gardiner is another 4 level but it doesn't have as many flyovers

Turcot Interchange in Montreal is also 4 levels, but is an odd interchange design.

...With 400/407 and 427/407, I think that's it for Canada. The major junctions in Alberta are more sensible with their designs.


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## ChrisZwolle

The Autoroute 410 extension near Sherbrooke will open in late October.

http://www.lapresse.ca/la-tribune/s...roncon-mis-en-service-dici-la-fin-octobre.php


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## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 63, Alberta*

*New sections of Highway 63 twinning to open*

*Motorists on Highway 63 can expect stoppages and significant delays on Thursday, October 15 as traffic is transitioned onto three new twinned sections. *

The new sections will provide motorists with an additional 53 kilometres of four-lane highway. This brings Highway 63 to a total of 221 kilometres of twinned road between Grassland and Fort McMurray.

* Between kilometre 188 and kilometre 222
* Between kilometre 145 and kilometre 154 
* North of Highway 55 junction to kilometre 11​
Full press release: http://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?xID=386810D20C483-EDD6-05AF-AAE3D5EBA7A4BC08


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## Kanadzie

^^ haha, typical government project
People dying from undersized road, government starts project to fix road, road improved just after people stop using the road :lol:


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## sonysnob

MichiH said:


> I'd like to update my list of u/c motorways.
> 
> It was announced that the subsequent sections should be completed by the end of 2015:
> 
> *QC-A410:* Sherbrooke-Rue Belvedere Sud – Lennoxville (QC-143) ~3km (2012 to Fall 2015) – project – map
> *QC-A85:* Note-Dame-du-Lac – Lac Martin 7.5km (2012 to Fall 2015) – project – map
> *ON-407:* Pickering-Brock Road – Oshawa-Harmony Road 22km (2013 to December 2015) – project – map
> *ON-412:* Whitby (ON-407) – Whitby (ON-401) 10km (2013 to December 2015) – project – map
> 
> Are the projects still on schedule, is there any estimated opening date?
> Some project page links have been changed. Does anyone know the new links?
> 
> 
> I think the construction of an additional project began earlier this year (source):
> 
> *QC-A73:* Beauceville – Saint-Georges-North 13km (April 2015 to Fall 2016) – ? – map
> 
> Is my data correct?
> 
> 
> I also found an old news article about an extension of QC-A70 (motorway standard) but I don't get it because my French is limited. There are a 3.9km, a 1.5km and a 2.2km motorway sections under construction, aren't they!?
> Could anyone provide the data for my list like the QC-A73 data (from..to.. length.. construction begin... estimated opening... project page... map...)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was announced to be started this fall. I think the project page is not up-to-date. Is there any updated info about the estimated construction beginning?
> 
> *ON-407:* Oshawa-Harmony Road – Solina (ON-418) 8.2km (Fall 2015 to Late 2017) – project – map
> *ON-418:* Solina (ON-407) – Hampton-Taunton Road 1.1km (Fall 2015 to Late 2017) – project – map
> *ON-407:* Solina (ON-418) – Clarington-Kirby (ON-35) 13.0km (Fall 2015 to Late 2020) – project – map
> *ON-418:* Hampton-Taunton Road – Clarington/Oshawa (ON-401) 9.0km (Fall 2015 to Late 2020) – project – map
> 
> 
> Are there more motorway or expressway section under construction which are not yet in my list?


As far as I know, that is basically correct. I am not sure the exact status of what is under construction on A-70 either, but I have been told that there is ongoing construction on that section.

Also nearly finished in Quebec is the super-2 extension of Autoroute 20 from east of Rivière-du-Loup towards Trois-Pistoles Quebec. It should be open either later in October or in November of this year.
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/20/Page9.htm

There is a fair amount of work ongoing on the southern portion of A-73 as well. Some of the work ongoing is to fill in the gap north of St-Georges, which as you say should be completed next year. Additionally, work is also ongoing to twin the super-2 sections of the highway. I believe this work is also scheduled to be completed in 2016 as well.

Official word on the 407 and the 412 is that they will be completed later in 2015. We'll see if they make it. To me, a completion date sometime in 2016 seems more realistic, I'm hoping to be wrong though.


----------



## geogregor

Last month I have spent some time driving across western Canada and USA on some very scenic roads.
One of the most amazing od them is of course Icefield Parkway.

Few shots taken by small cheap camera

DSC00602 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00603 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00627 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00632 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00639 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00645 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00659 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00662 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

And few more:

DSC00666 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00668 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00688 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00690 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00696 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00699 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00717 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Soon I'll post some shots from TCH in Kicking Horse canyon


----------



## Kanadzie

Hwy 93 is a magnificent drive and you picked a good time to go. The summer months that road is packed with slow campervans.

Hwy 22 through nearby Kananaskis Country is beautiful too


----------



## Xusein

Nice stretch of road with beautiful scenery but what is with the low speed limit? Unless there's lots of hills or curves, I don't see why it can't be 120-130.


----------



## geogregor

Xusein said:


> Nice stretch of road with beautiful scenery but what is with the low speed limit? Unless there's lots of hills or curves, I don't see why it can't be 120-130.


It runs through national park and there is plenty of wildlife as well as lots of distracted tourists in the summer season.

In such circumstances I find limit of 90kmh quite generous. Look at roads in US national parks. 

Three more shots from Icefield Parkway

DSC00581 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00595 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00598 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## Kanadzie

Xusein said:


> Nice stretch of road with beautiful scenery but what is with the low speed limit? Unless there's lots of hills or curves, I don't see why it can't be 120-130.


I think only Texas you'll find 120 km/h speed limit on a 2 lane road 
Well and Northern Territory but I think they went back to open limit now.


----------



## MichiH

sonysnob said:


> As far as I know, that is basically correct. I am not sure the exact status of what is under construction on A-70 either, but I have been told that there is ongoing construction on that section.


I have added: *QC-A70:* Saguenay-Boulevard du Royaume – Saguenay-Chemin de la Grande-Anse 7.6km (? to Fall 2017) – ? – map



sonysnob said:


> There is a fair amount of work ongoing on the southern portion of A-73 as well. Some of the work ongoing is to fill in the gap north of St-Georges, which as you say should be completed next year.


I have added: *QC-A73:* Beauceville – Saint-Georges-North 13km (April 2015 to Fall 2016) – ? – map



sonysnob said:


> Additionally, work is also ongoing to twin the super-2 section*s* of the highway. I believe this work is also scheduled to be completed in 2016 as well.


Vallee-Jonction - Sainte-Joseph was completed in 2013. I only found the 2+1 section b/n Sainte-Marie and Vallée-Jonction which has to be widened.

https://sites.google.com/site/autoroute73/Doublement

I guess this is the only u/c section:

*QC-A73:* Sainte-Marie – Vallee-Jonction 11km (2014 to 2016) [2nd c/w] – ? – map

I couldn't find proper info. Is the construction period 2014-16 correct? Is there any estimated completion date, e.g. early/late 2016 etcetera?


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ I went looking on official Quebec Transport Ministry website 
https://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/infrastr...ibougamau/Pages/lien-routier-alma-labaie.aspx

Surprisingly hard navigation even if you know the language 
It doesn't seem updated too recently, but at least, annoucement of construction April 2013 and planned opening 2007.

A-73 work is not shown there but on the "grand project" site here:
http://www.projetsmajeurs.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/projets-routiers/autoroute73/le-projet/pages/default.aspx

and timeline:
http://www.projetsmajeurs.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/projets-routiers/autoroute73/travaux/pages/default.aspx

Most should be open by now or soon opening (fall 2015) and only sector B to finish in 2016, but they have not yet completed property acquisition.


----------



## sonysnob

^ You beat me too it, but this is what the construction to twin A-73 looked like back in May of this year:










Great pics of the Icefield Pkwy as well. Looks like a very worthwhile drive. Did you get a chance to do the "Going to the Sun Road" in Montana? That's one that I've always wanted to do as well.


----------



## MichiH

Thanks 



Kanadzie said:


> ^^ I went looking on official Quebec Transport Ministry website
> https://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/infrastr...ibougamau/Pages/lien-routier-alma-labaie.aspx
> 
> Surprisingly hard navigation even if you know the language
> It doesn't seem updated too recently, but at least, annoucement of construction April 2013 and planned opening 2007.


That's A-70. Opening date should be 2017 though .



Kanadzie said:


> A-73 work is not shown there but on the "grand project" site here:
> http://www.projetsmajeurs.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/projets-routiers/autoroute73/le-projet/pages/default.aspx
> 
> and timeline:
> http://www.projetsmajeurs.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/projets-routiers/autoroute73/travaux/pages/default.aspx
> 
> Most should be open by now or soon opening (fall 2015) and only sector B to finish in 2016, but they have not yet completed property acquisition.


Sorry, I don't get it. Maybe Google Translate is confusing me.

There are two sections: Beauceville – Notre-Dame-des-Pins (8km) and Notre-Dame-des-Pins - Saint-Georges-North (5.4km). The first section is planned to be opened in fall 2015 but works will continue in 2016. The latter section is should be completed in fall 2015. :nuts: :nuts: :nuts:


----------



## Kanadzie

sonysnob said:


> ^ You beat me too it, but this is what the construction to twin A-73 looked like back in May of this year:


What are those arrows in the opposing direction telling you to do? Looks like "take the ditch! take the ditch! :lol:


MichiH said:


> There are two sections: Beauceville – Notre-Dame-des-Pins (8km) and Notre-Dame-des-Pins - Saint-Georges-North (5.4km). The first section is planned to be opened in fall 2015 but works will continue in 2016. The latter section is should be completed in fall 2015.


Basically section 1 is split in 3 parts:
1-A from Oct 13 - Aug 15
1-B1 - Jul 14 - 2015
1-B2 - start April 2015 - finish 2016 (it is 2 km length, comprising 2 viaducts of the highway over rang St-Charles and 2 ecoducts 900 m north of rang St-Charles) (I don't know a good translation for "rang" and "montée" but they are old rural local roads, similar to range road / township road in West Canada but from the old French system of land concession)
1-C start Aug 2013 - finish aug 2015 -> opening this would allow opening to traffic of a 2nd stretch of road.

and section 2, 5.4 km long comprising two "segments" First being the 74 St interchange, open since 2013. Second being 5.4 km including a bridge over River Gilbert, started 07.2012 and should be finished fall 2015.


----------



## sonysnob

Kanadzie said:


> What are those arrows in the opposing direction telling you to do? Looks like "take the ditch! take the ditch! :lol:




The arrows are pointing traffic to take the transition to the real northbound lanes. This photo was taken immediately south of the end of the four-lane highway.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

This was an interesting read "Plan québécois des infrastructures 2015-2025/Plans annuels de gestion des investissements publics en infrastructures 2015-2016"
According to this, these are the planned projects from now till 2025:
In realization:
1- A73 Quebec to Saguenay
2- Expansion of A50 (twinning the whole length)
3- Route 185 upgrade from A-20 to N.B. (A85)
4- A73 between St-Joseph-de-Bauce and St-Georges
5- Reconstruction of Turcot Interchange in Montreal
6- Reconfiguration of Dorval Roundabout interchange in Montreal
7- Extension of Route 167 to Monts Otish region
8- Extension of A35 between St-Jean-sur-Richelieu and the American border
9- Extension of A20 between Cacouna and Trois-pistoles
10- Reconfiguration of interchange between Charest and Robert-Bourassa in Quebec city
11- Northern extension of A5 in Outaouais region
12- Extension of A410 in southern Sherbrooke to eventually achieve complete encirclement
13- eastern extension of A70 to La Baie
14- Having route 112 moved out of the town of Thetford Mines
15- Various extensions of Route 138 along Cote-Nord


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Québec seems to construct the most freeway / autoroute mileage in Canada recently, after decades of almost no construction activity.


----------



## Kanadzie

The Dorval Circle rebuild has been a kind of boondoggle
Was supposed to be ~ 5 years work starting 2005 at 224 million
Both points have been greatly exceeded by now and nothing is done 

The original plan got rid of the circle, and added direct ramps from airport to downtown (to A-20 from the east) and direct ramps from West Island to Cote-de-Liesse (A-20 East -> A-520 East and vice-versa)

Now the circle stays and only the airport-downtown ramps are in plan. The airport interchange to A-520 has finished construction but the direct ramps have not (the viaduct is there but would only send cars flying into a nearby hotel building)
It seems the work required in regards to the railway through the area was not fully considered in the plan.


----------



## sonysnob

^ That's pretty brutal.

One would have thought that Quebec would have constructed enough boondoggles by now to know how to avoid them...


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ ah but we're distinct society 

And of course this kind of thing (mostly in French)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ygD6nZ0PGA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KDSaFTWB0k


----------



## MichiH

Sorry and shame on but......



Kanadzie said:


> Basically section 1 is split in 3 parts:
> 1-A from Oct 13 - Aug 15
> 1-B1 - Jul 14 - 2015
> 1-B2 - start April 2015 - finish 2016 (it is 2 km length, comprising 2 viaducts of the highway over rang St-Charles and 2 ecoducts 900 m north of rang St-Charles) (I don't know a good translation for "rang" and "montée" but they are old rural local roads, similar to range road / township road in West Canada but from the old French system of land concession)
> 1-C start Aug 2013 - finish aug 2015 -> opening this would allow opening to traffic of a 2nd stretch of road.


Is it possible to open subsections (there are no interchanges)? Have subsections been opened, e.g. 1-A in August 2015? I don't think so.

I guess 1-A, 1-B1, 1-B2 and 1-C are only lots and the 8km A-73 section b/n Beauceville interchange and Notre-Dame-des-Pins interchange will be opened in late 2016, won't it?



Kanadzie said:


> and section 2, 5.4 km long comprising two "segments" First being the 74 St interchange, open since 2013. Second being 5.4 km including a bridge over River Gilbert, started 07.2012 and should be finished fall 2015.


Got it  But fall 2015 is now.... Is there any info when it will exactly be opened or if it's delayed?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 63, Alberta*

*Highway 63 twinning now 99 per cent complete*

*The newly twinned Highway 63 between Grassland and Fort McMurray will improve safety for motorists and increase market access.*

Highway 63 will soon be 16 kilometres closer to being completely twinned thanks to another section of four-lane traffic that opens Monday, October 19. The newly twinned segment runs from the 129 to 145 kilometer markers, and once open, will mean the twinning of Highway 63 is 99 per cent complete.​
Full press release: http://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?xID=386990B1BA319-BD5C-BC56-5428BEB65AF933A2

237 km of Highway 63 is now twinned from Grassland to Fort McMurray. A 3 kilometer segment is remaining.


----------



## geogregor

My drive through the Kicking Horse area:


----------



## Innsertnamehere

The 407 East Phase 1 consortium has posted new aerial images of the project. A late December opening is looking extremely unlikely, unfortunately.

The Brock road Interchange, which opened in (i believe) July:










The highway as it runs south of Brooklin:










The temporary terminal interchange at Harmony Road:










The future 401 and 412 interchange:










TheWestney Road overpass:


----------



## MichiH

MichiH said:


> Vallee-Jonction - Sainte-Joseph was completed in 2013. I only found the 2+1 section b/n Sainte-Marie and Vallée-Jonction which has to be widened.
> 
> https://sites.google.com/site/autoroute73/Doublement
> 
> I guess this is the only u/c section:
> 
> *QC-A73:* Sainte-Marie – Vallee-Jonction 11km (2014 to 2016) [2nd c/w] – ? – map
> 
> I couldn't find proper info. Is the construction period 2014-16 correct? Is there any estimated completion date, e.g. early/late 2016 etcetera?


The website has been updated. The section is 2x2 in service since October 2015.



> En 2015, on complété une partie du doublement entre Vallée-Jonction et Sainte-Marie. Il reste cependant le secteur entre les 2 échangeurs à Sainte-Marie de même qu'un pont imposant au dessus de la Rivière Chassé. Les travaux de doublement ont été achevés en Octobre 2015 à l'exeption d'un peu de finition. Le 23 Octobre 2015, le MTQ a donc ouvert les voies dans le secteur Sainte-Marie/Saints-Anges. Ainsi, on peut dire que l'autoroute 73 est à enfin 4 voies de Lévis à Beauceville. Il reste cependant quelques travaux mineurs de finition et de paysagement qui vont nécessiter des entraves temporaires jusqu'en 2016.
> 
> Lorsque cette finition sera terminée et si le prolongement vers le sud se termine dans les échéanciers évoqués, l'Autoroute 73 sera donc à 4 voies de Québec à Saint-Georges autour de fin 2016.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

23 October is the date according to this article: http://www.enbeauce.com/actualites/...n-des-deux-derniers-troncons-de-lautoroute-73


----------



## geogregor

TCH from Lake Louise towards Golden.

DSC00737 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00745 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00746 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00749 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00750 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00751 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00753 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00754 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

DSC00755 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00757 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00760 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00761 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Zaraz zrobi sie wasko:

DSC00762 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00764 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00765 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00766 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

DSC00768 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00769 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Twinned section again:

DSC00771 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00772 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00773 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00774 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00775 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

And last look back at the Kicking Horse Bridge:

P9170503 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

I love the TCH shield, one of the most distinctive in the world:

P9170519 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Québec City*

I've been browsing through Google Earth and noticed the high volume of bridge work in the city of Québec (ville de Québec). On a closer look with historical imagery, it appears that nearly all autoroute bridges in the city have been replaced in the last 5-10 years. Most of those replacements don't seem to be capacity enlargements. 

These are bridges across rivers and railroads as well as bridges and flyovers in interchanges.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ They were all built circa 1965-1970 and were in generally poor condition

The overpasses were generally ignored until the de la Concorde Blvd. collapse and it sparked a wide project to replace the "deficient" viaducts.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Quebec essentially built its entire core autoroute network in 15 years, so most of it is coming up for reconstruction all at the same time. Once you combo that with the infamous mafia connection to construction companies in Quebec, you get the result you see today.


----------



## geogregor

More TCH in British Columbia

DSC00778 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00780 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00782 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00784 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00785 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00788 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00789 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00792 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00793 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Canada has interesting mix of symbols and text on its road signs: 

DSC00794 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## NFZANMNIM

geogregor said:


> More TCH in British Columbia
> 
> 
> 
> DSC00788 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


Interesting seeing TCH sign with a different colouring scheme. I don't think they change colouring scheme for BC route symbols...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

These two viaducts in Vancouver will be demolished in a $ 200 million project. They were built as an accces to a freeway from downtown to the east that was never built, so they didn't serve much purpose. Keeping them would require a costly seismic upgrade. The southern viaduct (Georgia Viaduct) carries 24,000 vehicles per day, the northern viaduct (Dunsmuir Viaduct) carries 19,000 vehicles per day. A decent six-lane urban arterial should be capable of handling that kind of traffic.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

100 km/h is a ridiculously slow speed limit on long-distance freeways. Most European countries have a 120 - 130 km/h speed limit and a fatality rate that is lower than in Canada. 

The low speed limits is something of the 'New World'. The U.S. until recently had many states where you were only allowed 65 - 70 mph, and there are still a number of states enforcing these low speed limits. In Australia, the maximum speed limit is only 110 km/h. In New Zealand, the maximum speed limit is 100 km/h, similar to Ontario and Québec. 

Norway was the last European country with a 100 km/h motorway speed limit. They recently went up to 110, but until about 10 years ago they hardly had any motorways outside urban areas. Sweden has a 110 km/h motorway speed limit, though they have 'trials' with 120 km/h on certain stretches for a long period of time now. 

Ontario could play two routes; demand a politically unrealistic increase to 130 km/h and get a compromise of 110 or 120, or play it safe to advocate for a modest increase to 110 or 120. Either way, 100 km/h is way too slow. Do politicians ever drive a car?


----------



## geogregor

NFZANMNIM said:


> we were once stopped on the way from Toronto to Ottawa near Kingston on 401 for doing 116 km/h
> So it is, although rarely, strictly reinforced. Especially on long weekends. (The time we got fined was the Canada day long weekend)


I drove across the west (BC and Alberta) recently and saw very little enforcement. In fact I saw a very few police patrols. Definitely less than I normally see on my trips in the US.


----------



## verreme

ChrisZwolle said:


> 100 km/h is a ridiculously slow speed limit on long-distance freeways. Most European countries have a 120 - 130 km/h speed limit and a fatality rate that is lower than in Canada.
> 
> The low speed limits is something of the 'New World'. The U.S. until recently had many states where you were only allowed 65 - 70 mph, and there are still a number of states enforcing these low speed limits. In Australia, the maximum speed limit is only 110 km/h. In New Zealand, the maximum speed limit is 100 km/h, similar to Ontario and Québec.
> 
> Norway was the last European country with a 100 km/h motorway speed limit. They recently went up to 110, but until about 10 years ago they hardly had any motorways outside urban areas. Sweden has a 110 km/h motorway speed limit, though they have 'trials' with 120 km/h on certain stretches for a long period of time now.
> 
> Ontario could play two routes; demand a politically unrealistic increase to 130 km/h and get a compromise of 110 or 120, or play it safe to advocate for a modest increase to 110 or 120. Either way, 100 km/h is way too slow. Do politicians ever drive a car?


I guess this is because of the recurring "people drive faster than the speed limit, so if we raise it, people will drive even faster because they _systematically_ drive faster than the speed limit" logic. Something that only seems to work for politicians, because it has been proven wrong again and again. Today speed enforcement is too cheap and easy, and if there's a will to do it a speed limit can be easily enforced. With today's technology, you can set a 130 km/h and ensure that _no one_ drives faster without getting a ticket, even in long distances and/or remote places.

It's not only a Canadian thing -it's the same old story in every country with low speed limits. Throw in a bunch of weak politicians and overreacting mass media and that's what you get: nothing is done.


----------



## Kanadzie

There is a big OPP detachment in Kingston, the Kingston area is probably the most likely to see police.



ChrisZwolle said:


> 100 km/h is a ridiculously slow speed limit on long-distance freeways. Most European countries have a 120 - 130 km/h speed limit and a fatality rate that is lower than in Canada.
> 
> The low speed limits is something of the 'New World'. The U.S. until recently had many states where you were only allowed 65 - 70 mph, and there are still a number of states enforcing these low speed limits. In Australia, the maximum speed limit is only 110 km/h. In New Zealand, the maximum speed limit is 100 km/h, similar to Ontario and Québec.
> 
> Norway was the last European country with a 100 km/h motorway speed limit. They recently went up to 110, but until about 10 years ago they hardly had any motorways outside urban areas. Sweden has a 110 km/h motorway speed limit, though they have 'trials' with 120 km/h on certain stretches for a long period of time now.
> 
> Ontario could play two routes; demand a politically unrealistic increase to 130 km/h and get a compromise of 110 or 120, or play it safe to advocate for a modest increase to 110 or 120. Either way, 100 km/h is way too slow. Do politicians ever drive a car?


Typically they are chauffeured
There was a brouhaha in Quebec about 5-10 years ago when the Transport Minister was observed riding in a limousine up to 132 km/h on Autoroute 40 (I believe a segment posted 100) -> https://translate.google.ca/transla...ives/2007/11/20071117-063902.html&prev=search
Earlier (1970's), Quebec Premier Rene Levesque was driving himself (before the limo became mandatory) and ran over someone in suspicious circumstances (it was thought Levesque was drunk, but the test was only administered many hours after the incident)

Probably the last time we heard of a poltician driving himself in Canada was former Toronto mayor Rob Ford while doing crack in his Escalade :lol:


----------



## Cricket_Fan

NFZANMNIM said:


> we were once stopped on the way from Toronto to Ottawa near Kingston on 401 for doing 116 km/h
> So it is, although rarely, strictly reinforced. Especially on long weekends. (The time we got fined was the Canada day long weekend)


That is rather surprising. It's underheard of to see anyone get stopped at 116. My understanding has been that you are never going to get stopped for going up to 120 km/h. They will only ever stop you if you go above 120 km/h, and even then you are unlikely to get stopped at 125 km/h. After 125 it starts getting riskier. 

Whenever I see a cop, I brake or let go off gas and set the cruise to 118 km/h. Never been stopped at that speed ever. Chatham-Kent area is notorious for OPP and I've drove right in front of cops between 118-125 many times.


----------



## Cricket_Fan

Speaking of construction on the 401, a ~6km stretch in Cambridge between Highway 8 and Hespler Rd is getting widened for 6 to 10 lanes. They started working in June and it's supposed to be done in summer 2019. Does anybody know why it would taking such a ridiculously long time for only a 6km stretch of the highway? 

In other news, a further 2km extension in Windsor might open some time this year: http://windsorstar.com/news/local-n...eadaches-continue-due-to-parkway-construction


----------



## sonysnob

Yeah, 116 seems crazy to me. Maybe a Quebec license plate thing?

I've logged an awful lot of miles along freeways in Ontario, and have had very few run ins with law enforcement anywhere in Ontario.

I'd be far more upset with the 100km/h limit in Ontario if the OPP was actually taking steps to enforce it.

On another note, Hwy 7 between Peterborough and Carleton Place is a road that needs to have its speed limit upped. It's a very rural road that is well built and is signed as the Trans-Canada. In my opinion it should be posted at 90kh/h.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ I would probably get verbally abusive if I got pulled over at less than 120


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Herb Gray Parkway's final section to open within a couple weeks*

*Within the next couple weeks the final four-kilometre stretch of the $1.4-billion Herb Gray Parkway will open to traffic, finally ending all road construction under the new Highway 401 extension that will soon reach the city’s west end in Brighton Beach.*

(...)

MTO officials overseeing parkway construction said Wednesday the final stretch between Labelle and Ojibway Parkway will be open before the end of November.

(...)

Once the final stretch opens later this month, the parkway — or 401 extension — will dead end and force traffic to get off at the intersection of Ojibway Parkway and E.C. Row. Eventually, a bridge overpass will take traffic over top of Ojibway Parkway into the plaza of the new Gordie Howe International Bridge, which is scheduled to open in 2020.​
Full report by the Windsor Star: http://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/parkways-final-section-to-open


----------



## Blackraven

Ontario is the leading province in Canada (e.g. economy, population, etc.)..........yet its max speed limit is slower than British Columbia. WTF?!?!?


----------



## sonysnob

Some updated information about the 407 East Extension in the eastern GTA. These pictures were taken on November 7, 2015

Some of the new signage has gone up on the 401. To my knowledge, this is the only new signage that has been erected for the highway:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_405-5_east_Nov15_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_405-5_east_Nov15_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_406_east_Nov15_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_406_east_Nov15_24x16.jpg
The sign for the Lake Ridge Road interchange pre-dates almost all construction of the ramp itself.


Top coat asphalt has been applied to much of the future highway west of the Lake Ridge Road interchange. Lines were applied at some point earlier this week. Most of the highway is not this far advanced. These views are from just west of Sideline 14 in Pickering, and look east:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/11-Nov/407E_cl_109_east_lg_24x16.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...015/11-Nov/407E_cl_109_east_t_Nov15_24x16.jpg

This view looks westerly from the Salem Road interchange:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...015/11-Nov/407E_cl_112_west_WB_t_Nov15_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_.../11-Nov/407E_cl_112_west_WB_t_Nov15_24x16.jpg

More to come...


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ Well, that answers the debate of what the 407 and 412 shields would look like


----------



## NFZANMNIM

So would this affect the privately-owned section's signage in the long run, i wonder


----------



## Haljackey

NFZANMNIM said:


> So would this affect the privately-owned section's signage in the long run, i wonder


In the long run, likely. At the end of the 99 year lease (which began in 1998, so 2097), it will return to the province or leased to another operator. Signs might change then.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

So in 82 years.. I think the chances of any of us living that long are pretty slim. God knows what Toronto and Ontario will even be like by then, 82 years ago, we were in the depths of the Great Depression, Hitler has just taken control of Germany, and the automobile was something of a fantasy for most people still.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Saskatchewan*

*The Estevan Bypass is Officially Open*

November 10 marks the grand opening of the Estevan Bypass. Heavy truck traffic and commuters will now have a safer and more efficient route while travelling through the Estevan area.

The 13 kilometre bypass route runs north of Estevan from the intersection of Highway 39 and Shand Road to Highway 39 west of the city.

Highway 39 serves as a part of the National Highway System that is a direct link to a major U.S. border crossing.

Since 2007, truck traffic in the area has increased by more than 90 per cent. This growth has resulted in congestion on Highway 39 through Estevan.​
Full press release: http://www.saskatchewan.ca/government/news-and-media/2015/november/10/estevan-bypass

A 90% growth of truck traffic through Estevan in eight years, wow.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

^^


----------



## Kanadzie

Innsertnamehere said:


> So in 82 years.. I think the chances of any of us living that long are pretty slim. God knows what Toronto and Ontario will even be like by then, 82 years ago, we were in the depths of the Great Depression, Hitler has just taken control of Germany, and the automobile was something of a fantasy for most people still.


_Most people_

But Toronto still had stupid traffic jams and there was still roadworks on the QEW! :lol:


----------



## trece verde

ChrisZwolle said:


> These two viaducts in Vancouver will be demolished in a $ 200 million project. They were built as an accces to a freeway from downtown to the east that was never built, so they didn't serve much purpose. Keeping them would require a costly seismic upgrade. The southern viaduct (Georgia Viaduct) carries 24,000 vehicles per day, the northern viaduct (Dunsmuir Viaduct) carries 19,000 vehicles per day. A decent six-lane urban arterial should be capable of handling that kind of traffic.


Chris:

Removal is not a dead certainty yet. It's being championed by a couple of civic politicians.

Underneath those two viaducts is a 6 lane surface street already (Expo Blvd westbound and Pacific Blvd eastbound). The viaducts handle(d) a lot of downtown-bound commuter traffic; the surface streets more destination traffic for the two stadia there (BC Place and Rogers Arena) and through traffic for the Yaletown neighbourhood. At the west end of the viaducts (the traditional shore of False Creek) is a steep embankment that would require a lengthy ramp to go from the grade of the surface streets on the False Creek flats up to the downtown street grid.

Despite our mayor's admirable goal of making Vancouver the world's greenest city, this would be a wrong-headed move. It would be difficult for these surface streets to absorb the extra capacity of the removed viaducts without creating a lengthier gridlock than we already have, and our transit system would not be getting upgraded to take care of it either.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

They are dead end highway chunks. The cost of maintaining them would far outweigh the benefits they provide.

The opening of the lands to development will provide more gdp growth than those things could ever provide.


----------



## Kanadzie

The Tar Island area interchange I believe was built privately by Suncor so their workers could get into the parking lot faster IIRC

Interesting to see the Parsons interchange coming together. The original ultimate plan they were showing had a giant cloverstack style interchange feeding full freeways on either side, with the east-west one supposed to eventually connect with existing secondary hwy #686 way in the west. Totally crazy to imagine 
Probably with present econmic activity in this region such plan will be totally iced. But note how they have already started construction on the next local interchange of the hwy 686 freeway immediately to the west 

http://conf.tac-atc.ca/english/annualconference/tac2014/s-14/biller.pdf

The whole Fort McMurray development was really interesting. It is sad the infrastructure construction was never even remotely close to the demand during the boom, not even houses for people, and consequently in the bust so many people just left instead of keeping enough economies of scale to diversify the local economy (and have a real northern metropolis in North America ) Maybe in 50 years and a few new booms happen.


----------



## geogregor

Continuing journey to Vancouver:

DSC00901 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00902 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00903 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00904 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00906 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

British Columbia visitor centre at the Junction in Merritt

P9180714 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P9180719 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Entering Hwy 5 (Coquihalla Highway), main highway to Vancouver.
Ho hitch-hiking  

DSC00907 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

120km/h the highest speed limit in Canada

DSC00908 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Another weather warning

DSC00909 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Greyhound

DSC00915 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

They just renovated the surface so only temporary road marking

DSC00916 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00920 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00921 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00923 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00925 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Cool snowshed:

IMG_0559 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

Trans-Canada Highway in Fraser Valley


DSC00931 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00932 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

171 km to the end 

DSC00934 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00935 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00938 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00939 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## jlaw

Toronto to Niagara Falls pls.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ LOL why, that road sucks :lol:

there's a nice series on asphaltplanet.com though

In road-construction news, the report of the inquiry into corruption in public construction projects in Quebec was released today:

http://www.metronews.ca/news/canada...ommendations-from-the-charbonneau-report.html
http://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...-inquiry-issues-recommendations-quebec-reacts

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/charbonneau-commission-makes-recommendations-952836


----------



## NFZANMNIM

The only good parts are Hamilton's Bridge, and Welland Channel Bridge.
Elsewhere, it looks like a typical upstate NY highway


----------



## Kanadzie

When I passed over the Burlington Skyway tonight going home, the sight of the moon was spectacular
clear sky, big moon, and its reflection shimmered in the lake, it was really something
Even the traffic wasn't so bad (around 18:15)


----------



## Haljackey

Don Valley Parkway at Eglinton Avenue in Toronto

Former cloverleaf.










Source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ai360/19863133985/in/dateposted/


----------



## Cricket_Fan

Any images/videos of the new 401 extension in Windsor?


----------



## sonysnob

These are from before the most recent extension opened a few weeks ago, but I took a pretty detailed set of them here:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hwy401_p1_images.htm


----------



## VoltAmps

NFZANMNIM said:


> The only good parts are Hamilton's Bridge, and Welland Channel Bridge.
> Elsewhere, it looks like a typical upstate NY highway


Not at all

Upstate NY highways are much more scenic


----------



## Cricket_Fan

sonysnob said:


> These are from before the most recent extension opened a few weeks ago, but I took a pretty detailed set of them here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hwy401_p1_images.htm


Thank you very much. Yep, these appear to be of the extension that opened in in June. Do you have any of the extension that opened on Nov 20/21? 

Something else to ponder -- MTO is reconstructing a 13km stretch in Tilbury right after the 401 changes from 6 to 4 lanes. But they're not widening it.. any ideas why? Seems like a good opportunity to widen it. 

The MTO contract only talks about Westbound lanes, will eastbound not be reconstructed? http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/tr..._reports-southwestern.shtml#Contract2015-3007


----------



## hkskyline

*407 ETR can no longer deny plates to bankrupt drivers: Fixer*
17 November 2015
The Toronto Star _Excerpt_ 

Score one for the little guys, in the battle to rein in the 407 ETR’s collection practices and refusal to recognize bankruptcy law.

The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that federal bankruptcy law trumps provincial legislation the 407 relied on to continue to pursue unpaid balances from people whose debts had been discharged by bankruptcy.

Anyone who’s been declared bankrupt can now have their 407 debt included in their discharge, and the company running the toll road can no longer deny them a licence-plate renewal.

The 407 issued a news release saying it “is immediately implementing the decision of the court” and that anyone approved for bankruptcy can have their 407 debt cleared.

The news release said it “will remove from plate denial pre-bankruptcy amounts owed by persons who have been discharged from bankruptcy and who have provided their discharge documents.”

It’s a huge win for people who have fought the 407’s refusal to recognize federal bankruptcy laws and the only setback to the ironclad contract that was inked with the former Tory government to lease the road for 99 years.

It has unparalleled power to use plate denial as a means of collection, and it charges interest of 26.82 per cent, compounded annually, on unpaid balances, all of which has been the ruin of many people.


----------



## sonysnob

Cricket_Fan said:


> Thank you very much. Yep, these appear to be of the extension that opened in in June. Do you have any of the extension that opened on Nov 20/21?
> 
> Something else to ponder -- MTO is reconstructing a 13km stretch in Tilbury right after the 401 changes from 6 to 4 lanes. But they're not widening it.. any ideas why? Seems like a good opportunity to widen it.
> 
> The MTO contract only talks about Westbound lanes, will eastbound not be reconstructed? http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/tr..._reports-southwestern.shtml#Contract2015-3007


I don't have any pictures of the most recent extension from after it opened. I do have a couple of photos from looking at the freeway from about two weeks before it opened from the ends of a couple of the tunnels. They are not online as of yet.

The westbound lanes are being reconstructed this construction season easterly from Tilbury. The eastbound lanes will be reconstructed next year. MTO will be reconstructing virtually the entire length of the 401 through Chatham and Elgin Counties in the coming years.

Official website:
http://hwy401reconstruction.ca/


----------



## geogregor

hkskyline said:


> It’s a huge win for people who have fought the 407’s refusal to recognize federal bankruptcy laws and the only setback to the ironclad contract that was inked with the former Tory government to lease the road for 99 years.


That is a very long lease. Most of the few we have in Poland are about 25-30 years long. 

Is it the longest road lease in the world?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The common lease / concession is 20-30 years, but there are occasionally longer leases. For instance, the Indiana Toll Road was recently leased for 66 years. 

I'm not a fan for such very long-term leases. If you want to change policy for whatever reason, and make the road toll-free, they would have to buy out the concessionaire, which may be very expensive (in fact, it's sometimes cheaper to construct a parallel toll-free highway, as Spain has done on several occasions). I also don't see the advantage of 30+ year leases. An existing lease can always be extended, as they frequently do with French toll roads, usually demanding some improvements in exchange.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

It was a political move to get fast cash flow to show a balanced budget in an election year. They sold that lease for $3 billion, allowing the PCs to have a "balanced" budget for the election, using a one time massive cash inflow. It worked too, the government held power for another 6 years after that. The highway is essentially privately owned, with all maintenance and expansion privately financed.

The original plan was to have the highway be tolled for 30 years to pay for its construction, then become toll free.. so the highway would have dropped tolls in 2027. 

The move has become one of the most politically unpopular moves of the provincial government in the last several decades.

The 407 East extension is being done separately, with the Government retaining full ownership, instead only contracting out operations for a 30 year design-build-maintain contract, while the government retains toll profits. Its still a permanent toll road, but it maintains government ownership and thus isn't as unpopular.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ Indeed, the 99 year lease was insane

But the political lesson didn't take, HydroOne anyone? :lol:


----------



## hkskyline

Even after the costs have been re-couped, I doubt the tolls will go away. If the government took it back, they would want this cash cow to continue flowing. It is very hard to take away "taxes".


----------



## Penn's Woods

yin_yang said:


> we don't. we have a lot of planes. often we have hundreds in the air at once. we have one road across because we are developed enough to be able to fly most of our goods over the land.


I wasn't trying to be snarky. I love Canada. (I was really just thinking out loud.)


----------



## Penn's Woods

Innsertnamehere said:


> There are two trans Canadian railroads, one for CP and one for CN. CP owns a bunch of tracks through the US though, and because of NAFTA, uses those as its mainline to western Canada, meaning its line across Northern Ontario is rather lightly used.
> 
> Interestingly, NAFTA essentially makes Canada and the US a single country for railroads. Regulations slightly differ, but there is 0 border control for freight traffic. It has resulted in CN and CP buying up a lot of smaller US railroads..
> 
> CN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> because of the same regulations (NAFTA), freight trucking doesn't pay imports to drive through the US. They just need their drivers to have passports, and must have certifications on their trucks to drive in the US.


So there are at least three rail routes between Thunder Bay and Winnipeg? And two between Thunder Bay and northeastern Ontario. No choke point on the rail network.

It's interesting, that's all. (And, yinyang, flying's not always practical or cost-effective. There are things other than freight that are trying to move between east and west, and sometimes over distances that are not always worth the hassle of flying.)


----------



## Penn's Woods

zaphod said:


> VIA rail should dispatch a locomotive and a single passenger car to the scene. Then stranded locals could be ferried across the parallel rail bridge until the problem fixed with the highway bridge.
> 
> Nipigon has a siding and a wye in its downtown so with a little shunting the equipment could clear the main for regular traffic on schedule and not interfere.


Nah, they can fly from East Nipigon to West Nipigon.


----------



## sonysnob

Penn's Woods said:


> So there are at least three rail routes between Thunder Bay and Winnipeg? And two between Thunder Bay and northeastern Ontario. No choke point on the rail network.
> 
> It's interesting, that's all. (And, yinyang, flying's not always practical or cost-effective. There are things other than freight that are trying to move between east and west, and sometimes over distances that are not always worth the hassle of flying.)


CN lifted its trackage easterly from Thunder Bay to Longlac a few years ago, so there is now only one railway east of Thunder Bay (in addition to the one that runs north of Lake Nipigon).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Haljackey said:


> Just put a ton of weight on it, what could go wrong?


It seems a bit *******, but it could work. Even concrete bridges are more flexible than one might think. The bridge deck may deform during the tensioning of the cables.

This is a recently built concrete cable-stayed bridge in the Netherlands. Look at the deck deformation after tensioning.


----------



## ainvan

Some highways in Western Canada.

Obviously they're not as magnificent as 20 lane highway back east, but still nice.

*Icefield Parkway, Alberta*


Icefield Parkway by Maria Luo, on Flickr


Rocky Montains, Canada by St James Gate, on Flickr

*Highway 40, Alberta*


Highway 40 from the lookout near Fitzsimmons Creek picnic area. by Ken Sparks, on Flickr


A great view to stop and savour on the way home yesterday from the lakes. by Thank you for visiting my page, on Flickr

*David Thompson Highway, Alberta*


David Thompson Highway by Heidi G, on Flickr

*Sea to Sky Highway, British Columbia*


Shannon Falls, Squamish, Porteau Cove all along the Sea to Sky Highway and the Pacific Ocean in British Columbia by David Rose, on Flickr


The Scenic Sound ~ Vancouver, BC by SeaSide Signs ~ Vancouver, BC, on Flickr

*Yellowhead Highway, British Columbia*


Scenery in Northwestern B.C. by LNG Canada, on Flickr


----------



## sonysnob

ChrisZwolle said:


> It seems a bit *******, but it could work. Even concrete bridges are more flexible than one might think. The bridge deck may deform during the tensioning of the cables.
> 
> This is a recently built concrete cable-stayed bridge in the Netherlands. Look at the deck deformation after tensioning.


Many years ago when I was younger and thinner, I supervised the construction of this bridge as an inspector for the consulting company:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.3876...4!1sQLzfcepI9tG222zwgzCY7Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The bridge was constructed with a prefabricated deck that rests on a steel superstructure. The steel superstructure was installed first, then several pre-cast concrete deck segments were dropped in on top of it. I remember being somewhat surprised to see the steel deflect downwards once the concrete deck was hoisted into place. So much so that I tracked down a more senior member of the engineering staff to ask them about it. I was reassured that it is indeed normal for structural elements to deflect under loading conditions, and that I needn't worry. Looks like the bridge was still standing when the google-mobile drove by, so I guess they were right.


----------



## Kanadzie

ChrisZwolle said:


> This is a major transportation issue. Most impacted is local traffic, it means a detour around Lake Superior, unless there is some kind of winter road available north of the Nipigon Bridge. It's actually 100 kilometer shorter for long-distance traffic to go through the USA from Sudbury to Winnipeg. However, it appears that truckers don't like the the border issues. Apparently it's quite common that freight from Toronto to the prairies goes through Northern Ontario instead of through the U.S.


I am not sure it is so bad for local as opposed to long-distance traffic.
Local traffic can always just stay home.
The temperature in the area the day the failure happened was -28 *C, you can't sit in your car and wait for it to open, and there are not huge number of hotel rooms around.
Town of Nipigon opened up some municipal buildings for shelter...

Also important to note the requirement of passport to cross US border... if someone driving cross-country didn't take it... they are screwed :nuts:



ChrisZwolle said:


> It seems a bit *******, but it could work. Even concrete bridges are more flexible than one might think. The bridge deck may deform during the tensioning of the cables.


It is working... it's the official fix and the bridge is open now :lol:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/nipigon-bridge-transcanada-update-1.3398207


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## Suburbanist

They should close that gap with only one highway building a second one couple hundred km north.


----------



## Nexis




----------



## Kanadzie

Suburbanist said:


> They should close that gap with only one highway building a second one couple hundred km north.


but there is nothing there
like really, nothing there

Canada should instead annex the land south shore of the Superior :banana:


----------



## Innsertnamehere

the idea behind the new bridge was that it would be a dual carriageway, and if one bridge failed, the other would still be there.. But they have only built one of the new bridges so far.. lol.

Building a new highway a few hundred km to the north would be literally pointless. What may be possible is a small connector road between Highway 11 and 585 north of Polly lake.. it would be about 8km of new road, a much smaller bridge, and about a 40km detour in case of an emergency closure. Could probably do it for $30 million or so.


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## Suburbanist

What about a road circumventing Lake Nipigon from the south (more or less, through Pine Portage) and then turning west to join route 17?

I also notice there is a railway north of this lake, wouldn't it be viable to build a parallel 2-lane highway there?


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ Following that northern railway would be the most logical. But very long and surely not worth the money. The cost of land expropriation is essentially zero - but it is a lot of rock, mountain and lake up there. There is nothing flat and easy like in NL or even the Toronto area. It's truly magnificent and beautiful country to have a cottage, and reasonably priced. But... your office will be a 20 hour drive... if you are lucky :/ So we scrimp and try to get a shack in the Muskokas where the only water, its in the basement ! 

I wonder why they already closed off and plan to demolish the 1937 bridge before building the second bridge? Unless they want to use that section of the road approaches. But when I drove there in July, it seemed like they wanted to put everything north of the old bridge completely.

Toronto Sun is blaming the Spaniards (Ferrovial) :lol:
http://www.torontosun.com/2016/01/11/nipigon-bridge-engineers-based-in-spain


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, you can't say the 407 doesn't deliver... It's entirely free-flow during the morning rush hour...


----------



## Innsertnamehere

^it always is! Whenever it starts to clog down a bit, they just add another lane. Its amazing, but I guess that is what you get for $0.35 a km.. 

It'll be interesting to see how the highway fares in the next few years now that parts of it are fully built out.. they can't add more lanes any more in many parts.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

As far as I know there is no traffic count data available for the 407, so it's a bit hard to judge due to the lack of statics.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ You can just rely on capitalism 
The corridor is really quite large. The "wide" section that is built out, probably could take an extra lane on the shoulder, but if they demolished and rebuilt overpasses, easily could be 20 lanes or something crazy without really any expropriation... it sounds nuts, but they did the 401 rebuild in a similar way in the 1960's, and even the QEW Halton Region rebuild just a few years ago (many aging overpasses rebuilt completely)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Overlander Bridge in Kamloops, British Columbia.


----------



## sonysnob

I did this a while ago, so apologies if I've posted it before.





Hwy 11 north of Barrie


----------



## Kanadzie

The Quebec Ministry of Transport seems to be looking at re-working the southern end of A-25 in the island of Montreal, approaching the Lafontaine tunnel.

(French only)
https://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/infrastr...es-port-de-Montreal-echangeur-Sherbrooke.aspx

PDF presentation showing proposed changes:
https://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/centredo...xcorridor/ProjetcorridorA-25-Presentation.pdf

Mostly seems to be removing some loops of the A-25 / Sherbrooke St (R-138) interchange and replacing with the Montreal-obligatory forest of traffic lights without right turn on red 

Advantages though would be adding a third through-lane south from A-25 to the tunnel (The Soulginy Avenue (planned A-20) "dedicated lane" would become a merge)


----------



## Innsertnamehere

The Webers Bridge is actually the original bridge across the rail corridor to the CN Tower.. When they built the Skydome in the 1980's they built a new one to deal with the much larger crowds, and Webers bought the old one.


----------



## sonysnob

Kanadzie said:


> The Quebec Ministry of Transport seems to be looking at re-working the southern end of A-25 in the island of Montreal, approaching the Lafontaine tunnel.
> 
> (French only)
> https://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/infrastr...es-port-de-Montreal-echangeur-Sherbrooke.aspx
> 
> PDF presentation showing proposed changes:
> https://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/centredo...xcorridor/ProjetcorridorA-25-Presentation.pdf
> 
> Mostly seems to be removing some loops of the A-25 / Sherbrooke St (R-138) interchange and replacing with the Montreal-obligatory forest of traffic lights without right turn on red
> 
> Advantages though would be adding a third through-lane south from A-25 to the tunnel (The Soulginy Avenue (planned A-20) "dedicated lane" would become a merge)


Hey, I read that they were planning to make some changes to A-25 in eastern Montreal.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ Here is a proper map showing basically what they want to do:
https://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/centredo...-travauxcorridor/ProjetcorridorA-25-Carte.pdf

I don't know why they want to make the right turn wyes into "hard" 90 degree signalized intersections and putting all A-25 N traffic to Sherbrooke St on that loop would put a lot of stress at that weaving zone, but because of the proximity of interchanges I'm not sure what else they could do aside from some basketweaves (not in Quebec, I've been living in Ontario too long, LOL!)

But at least Notre-Dame St would now have direct access to and from A-25 express lanes from the north and thereby the Port of Montreal, reducing some of the trucks driving through the residential areas, which has been bandied about ("improving access to and from the port") since the Ville-Marie Expressway completion (across Notre-Dame St) has been permanently iced (and the "half-way" proposal from 10 years ago is also very dead)

I have to admit that driving Highway 25 is typically an unpleasant experience at any time of day... but there isn't much space for improvement, as it runs in a narrow ROW in a urban environment, as it was an upgrade of a previous country road (Montee St-Leonard, Quebec Route 18)


----------



## sonysnob

Autoroute 25 could defintely use some TLC as well. Parts of that Soulingny interchange looks like it's going to fall over, so I'm pleased that that is being address.


----------



## geogregor

Alberta Hwy 2 from the US border to Cardston:

DSC01491 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01492 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01493 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01495 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01497 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01500 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01502 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01504 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01508 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## trece verde

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Overlander Bridge in Kamloops, British Columbia.


Not actually a highway, but a civic property. The bridge deck was resurfaced over last year (from April through October). It's a four lane span over the Thompson River that connects the North Shore of the city with the central area, just west of downtown. There are actually no direct highway connects on either side of the bridge; just city streets.


----------



## geogregor

Cardston and north of it:

DSC01509 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01510 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01511 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01513 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01515 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

I love prairies' roads 

DSC01517 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01519 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

A turn! :banana:

DSC01521 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01522 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## Innsertnamehere

some interchange upgrades that are planned for BC Highway 99 as a part of the George Massey Tunnel Replacement program in Vancouver..

SFPR:









Highway 17:









Stevenson Road:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's an unusual interchange at Stevenson Road...


----------



## geogregor

Alberta Hwy 2 from Fort MacLeod towards Calgary:

DSC01527 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01528 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01529 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01531 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01532 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01534 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01536 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01538 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

DSC01539 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01540 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01542 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01546 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01548 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01549 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01550 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01551 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01552 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ How did you like Alberta's tremendous attention to eco-friendliness that they put so many bear-proof recycling bins right on the side of the highway :lol:

High River switching to Calgary's street grid still makes such strange results... 498 Avenue S :lol: _New York City_ doesn't go that high :lol:


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Fun Fact: the highest numbered address on the planet is apparently 986,075 Perth-Oxford Road, Punkeydoodles Corners, Ontario. 986,075!! Crazy numbers. super high adress numbers are a very normal thing in Toronto's suburbs, the arterial roads are so straight that they run across the entire metro region.. resulting in addresses being in the 10,000's in some cases. Yonge street is in the 18,000's by the time it leaves Newmarket.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ Hell I am more impressed there is a place called Punkeydoodles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punkeydoodles_Corners


----------



## geogregor

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ How did you like Alberta's tremendous attention to eco-friendliness that they put so many bear-proof recycling bins right on the side of the highway :lol:


I only noticed now that they are bear-proof. I wonder if they ever see any bear, here on the side of this major highway :lol:


DSC01554 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01555 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P9283466 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

You see those long trucks everywhere in BC and Alberta. Are they common further east?

P9283479 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P9283480 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_1185 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_1186 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

Did you go to Drumheller? It's located in a canyon with 'the worlds largest dinosaur' or something.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

The double trailer trucks exist here, they just aren't that common. MTO has strict rules about where they can go and its only a recent program... I can see them becoming more popular in the future though.

The roads are much better for them in the west, its tough to take a regular 53' trailer through much of Ontario, yet alone two of them on one truck. The roads are much smaller and older here.

I wonder if we will ever see Australian style road trains with 3-5 trailers on one truck.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Did you go to Drumheller? It's located in a canyon with 'the worlds largest dinosaur' or something.


Yes, I did.
There is also world largest dinosaur :troll:

P9283438 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Road to Drumheller:

IMG_1188 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_1196 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_1198 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_1203 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_1206 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_1224 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

"Don't drive and take pictures"
I let my girlfriend do it 

IMG_1225 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## Innsertnamehere

new aerial images of the 407 Extension have been posted on the projects website, dated from December. The highway looks almost complete:

The new pavement meets the existing 407 (which badly needs to be repaved)










bridge structures approaching the Brock Road interchange:










The new 407 / 412 interchange:










The Lakeridge Road interchange:










Lakeridge road and how it interacts with the 412 interchange:










looking west from the 412 interchange towards Brooklin:










Coronation Road overpasses:










Westney Road overpass looking west:










The Sideline 14, Highway 7, and Brock Road bridges, looking southwest towards downtown:










The new Brock Road interchange. Note the new Park and Ride lot to the south of the interchange (top of the image), which includes a new bus terminal as well:


----------



## Innsertnamehere

http://www.thepeterboroughexaminer....5115-now-in-second-phase-of-construction-leal

Construction has begun on Phase 2 of the 407 Extension. A small section is supposed to open in 2017, with the rest opening in 2020. The highway will run from the Terminus of the now nearly complete phase 1 at Harmony Road to Highway 35/115, and will feature another 10km connector between the 407 and the 401, which will be signed as Highway 418.


----------



## Haljackey

Some new aerials from the 401 extension in Windsor:


https://www.flickr.com/photos/hgparkway/


----------



## Kanadzie

why so many apparently useless "tunnels" with grass on top?


----------



## Taha

Ontario has the ugliest road signs ever.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kanadzie said:


> why so many apparently useless "tunnels" with grass on top?


To bribe critical politicians into approving the project. They do this extensively in the Netherlands. Politicians won't approve a highway proposal unless they spend tens or even hundreds of millions on (legally speaking) unnecessary mitigation features.


----------



## Haljackey

Innsertnamehere said:


>


Coming from the east, I wonder if it will be cheaper to take the 35/115 to reach the 407 compared to the 418.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

technically, you'd be on toll roads for a shorter distance taking the 418, because you'd still have to drive on the 407 parallel to 401 when taking 115.
That's all assuming that both roads get an equal toll rating per km

Another question, Are there any plans to upgrade 115 to peterborough to 415 or something?


----------



## Kanadzie

ChrisZwolle said:


> To bribe critical politicians into approving the project. They do this extensively in the Netherlands. Politicians won't approve a highway proposal unless they spend tens or even hundreds of millions on (legally speaking) unnecessary mitigation features.


It so strange though... Windsor politicians were pushing for 401 for decades because they hated the original situation on surface streets...


----------



## Innsertnamehere

NFZANMNIM said:


> technically, you'd be on toll roads for a shorter distance taking the 418, because you'd still have to drive on the 407 parallel to 401 when taking 115.
> That's all assuming that both roads get an equal toll rating per km
> 
> Another question, Are there any plans to upgrade 115 to peterborough to 415 or something?


115 is up to freeway standards, though doesn't have paved shoulders.

its the 35/115 stretch that is a RIRO and needs upgrading. And no, there are no plans to upgrade it. RIROs ultimately work very well until you hit high traffic levels. 35/115 has an AADT of around 20,000, so it is far away from reaching that point.

MTO is planning to upgrade hwy 11 which is the other RIRO in the province, but that is pushing 50,000 AADT and faces real operational challenges.


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## Kanadzie

I wonder if in 50 years we might see Hwy 407 just go right up Hwy 115 and straight into the existing Hwy 7 freeway to the 417 at Carleton Place?

Ontario only seems really late to coming around to paved shoulders... I don't think even 401 has them, in the late 1960's sections in Eastern Ontario (w/wide grassy median)


----------



## NFZANMNIM

^^ also there are a couple of RIROs on Highway 400, and the right lane doesnt have the height requirement for most trucks due to the old arch bridges


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ That reminds me of those old overpasses on Autoroute 15 on the north shore of Montreal (the original overpasses from 1959)

The right lane always had chunks of concrete missing and these big yellow/black striped signs saying... clearance on the right less than the middle... and the signs themselves had chunks missing

After de la Concorde overpass (different style) collapsed in '06 they replaced some of the sketchiest of those overpasses, but there's still another half-dozen out there...

The problem must have evidenced itself immediately after opening as the overpasses from early 1960's all had straight clearance over the lanes...


----------



## Innsertnamehere

400 is in the process of being upgraded as we speak. They replaced most of the crappy steel median barrier with a concrete jersey barrier last summer, and will be replacing a lot of the substandard bridges in the next year or two. The Canal Road RIRO will be eliminated soon too from my understanding once the 5th line interchange is built.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

Taha said:


> Ontario has the ugliest road signs ever.


:lol: LOL why the hate?
Although there is something I don't understand in Ontario. Why are the collector signs blue and express signs green? I think it would make more sense the other way, blue express, green collector, and in general they can even go for blue on 400 series highways. imo, the shade of blue used in Ontario would attract more attention from a drowsy pair of eyes in the middle of the dark.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

To make it even more confusing, MTO uses blue signs to differentiate toll roads. All of the 407's signs are blue.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

Quebec used to have Blue for all their autoroutes
(which makes sense as they chose green for their principal non-autoroute shield background colour and blue (+red) for the autoroute shield)
The signs look so Scandinavian...


----------



## sonysnob

About the 400, the Canal Road interchange isn't going to be closed once the interchange with BWG 5 has opened. I too had though that this was going to be the case, but the Canal Road interchange is going to be maintained in perpetuity. It will be reconfigured and modernized in the future, presumably as part of a future highway widening project.

I would expect to see a contract called either this year or next for work to replace the existing Lloydtown-Aurora Road interchange similar to the work that is underway at Hwy 9. Once that's done, or at least substantially underway, a final grading contract will be called to widen the remainder of the highway northerly from Major Mackeznie up to Highway 9. Last I heard (which was a couple of years ago), the MTO was planning on delivering the widened highway by the early 2020s. I don't know what the schedule will be for work beyond Hwy 9 other than to say, it will come later.

I expect a contract to be called either this year or next year for the replacement of the current boxbeam median barrier northerly from Innisfil Beach Road up to Mapleview Road. I am expecting a similar project to what was done from Canal Road northerly and that the 400 will be resurfaced as part of the project. Resurfacing is also planned on the 400 through Toronto and Vaughan in the next few years.

This winter, a contract was called to replace and rehabilitate the Tiffin and Barrie-Collingwood Railway underpasses in Barrie. This work will include widening the highway's footprint in the vicinity of the underpasses in order to simplify traffic staging. As far as I know, there are currently no plans to replace the steel beam median barrier through Barrie. Such work will likely have to wait until the final cross-section is known through Barrie, particularly since not all widening may be about the centreline, and several curves will be adjusted.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ ^^

The blue on Autoroutes in Quebec was for toll roads only
Even something like A-13 had green signs in Montreal (no toll) and blue signs in Laval (toll). So basically like 407.

However current toll freeways in Quebec (well, toll bridges on A-25 and A-30) have only standard signs in green.

I think the Ontario sign uglyness is the sharp edges and weird arrow, but especially the sharp edges. I don't know why but it just hits hard. Mind you, other provinces usually have really horrible overhead signs (e.g. SK or MB), but maybe it just lack of experience to know how to make one.


----------



## Burloak

Innsertnamehere said:


> the idea behind the new bridge was that it would be a dual carriageway, and if one bridge failed, the other would still be there.. But they have only built one of the new bridges so far.. lol.
> 
> Building a new highway a few hundred km to the north would be literally pointless. What may be possible is a small connector road between Highway 11 and 585 north of Polly lake.. it would be about 8km of new road, a much smaller bridge, and about a 40km detour in case of an emergency closure. Could probably do it for $30 million or so.


If the crossing point near Cameron Falls is used. There is a single lane Bridge across the Nipigon River which appears to be about 70m span, very narrow single lane, and probably owned by Hydro. I can't tell from Google exactly what type of bridge that is. This bridge would have to be replaced. Also, about a kilometre south on hwy 585, there is a single lane Bailey Bridge (probably Mabey if you wan't to get technical). This may require also replacement. 

Another option is a crossing about 4km to the south. The river necks down a bit and an 80m span bridge (with 50m end spans) would work. The road required would be about 10 to 15km - depending on the exact route that is taken. That area is hilly, so a direct bee line won't work. All routes would require a medium sized bridge (40m long?) over Cash Creek (near Polly Lake).

I am a big fan of dams and waterfalls and never knew of this area (north-west of Nipigon) before - even though I have been through Nipigon a dozen times or more. This scenic tourist loop would add to the tourist value of the area.


----------



## sonysnob

There is also the old CNR bridge over the Nipigon River Bridge south of Cameron Falls. The tracks were only lifted a few years ago, so the bridge might still have some usable life left to it. (Though maybe not, I have to suspect that aging bridges were one of things that led to the line being abandoned). If so, that could potentially be converted to a single lane alternative crossing to the Trans-Canada Highway bridge as a cost-effective second crossing.


----------



## Burloak

ChrisZwolle said:


> There are some bridge types that are 'fracture critical', i.e. if one beam is compromised, the entire bridge could fail. It occurred with two high-profile bridge failures in the U.S., the I-35W bridge in Minneapolis and a bridge of I-5 north of Seattle which was struck by a truck as well.


"Fracture Critical" has a specific meaning. It is for tension members where failure of the member will likely lead to collapse of the bridge. It is tension only, because steel can fracture in tension abruptly and without warning under repetitive loading.

What you are referring to are single load path structures, where the member can be tension or compression and failure of the members can likely lead to failure of the structure.

I-35W was cause (primarily) by the buckling of a gusset plate, in compression. It was also overloaded by construction equipment and materials.

I-5 was caused by an overheight truck striking the the upper lateral bracing. This in turn pulled in on the top chord, which caused it, a compression member, to buckle. In Ontario, the connection of the bracing to the top chord is generally a much lighter connection and the bracing just tears out. That is what happened on the Burlington Skyway a few years ago.


----------



## sonysnob

Video of the 427 through western Toronto:


----------



## Innsertnamehere

http://www.therecord.com/news-story...-lanes-to-ease-hwy-6-congestion-in-morriston/

The Highway 6 Morriston bypass received funding today. This project will see a 5km bypass built to 400 series standards around Morriston, which is currently a large bottleneck on Highway 6. The project also includes widening a large portion of the 401 to 10 lanes, for the part of the 401 that highway 6 interlines with. It also includes a reconstruction of the Hanlon Parkway's interchange with the 401. The current roadway is only 2 lanes, and has an AADT of over 25,000. This is long overdue.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ I wonder if it will be 4 lanes, or if it will be more like the Hwy 6 Mount Hope bypass as a controlled access 2-lane...

That 401 interchange looks so complicated for 25 000 vpd, Ontario is so weird :lol:


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Another image.. hopefully a bit clearer. Its essentially a reconfiguration to reflect that it will now be a local road. Not sure what is going on in my first image, honestly.

And yes, it will be a 4 lane road. Thus why I said 400 series standards.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ I'm surprised the bridge didn't fall down.
> The span was opened to traffic around 1962 (not the 1934 span next to it) I am thinking from the picture, but it has considerable corrosion issues (under repairs for the past 10 years...)
> 
> It's always surprising how small the roads in Montreal are compared to Toronto
> Remember when the dump truck did the same thing to the Toronto-bound Burlington Skyway?


Did the Mohawks do it? :jk:

(Can't believe I haven't been on this thread in this long....)


----------



## Cricket_Fan

Innsertnamehere said:


> http://www.therecord.com/news-story...-lanes-to-ease-hwy-6-congestion-in-morriston/
> 
> The Highway 6 Morriston bypass received funding today. This project will see a 5km bypass built to 400 series standards around Morriston, which is currently a large bottleneck on Highway 6. The project also includes widening a large portion of the 401 to 10 lanes, for the part of the 401 that highway 6 interlines with. It also includes a reconstruction of the Hanlon Parkway's interchange with the 401. The current roadway is only 2 lanes, and has an AADT of over 25,000. This is long overdue.


Is there any information available on the 401 widening, in particular the two exits between which the widening will be done?


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Between Highway 6 (Hanlon Parkway) and Highway 6 (Queen st.). As I said, Highway 6 interlines with the 401 for a few km and that is the part of the highway that will be widened.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

best graphic I've found showing the project.. hopefully this is clearer. I couldn't find anything this good before.


----------



## sonysnob

Hwy 427 in Toronto at night:


----------



## Kanadzie

I like the 427. It always seems to work pretty well even. Though the 401 does not


----------



## sonysnob

Yeah. Agreed, the 427 is probably one of the best functioning highways in the GTA. I quite the like the urban canyon effect the new towers that have been constructed north of Bloor give to the highway as well.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ indeed it is starting to get this "megacity" feel to it
The buildings along the Gardiner are more impressive but the Gardiner itself is too small and ugly
Whereas the 427 is clean, in good condition and mega-also
Even the number 427 looks aesthetically pleasing on the signs (certainly the nicest crown signs )


----------



## smokiboy

On a side note, do we still need to put "km/h" on our speed limit signs?


----------



## sotonsi

smokiboy said:


> On a side note, do we still need to put "km/h" on our speed limit signs?


you really want numpties from your neighbour thinking the limits are in mph?


----------



## smokiboy

Good point. But what is their excuse for puting M P H, on some speed limit signs?


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Numpties from Canada? :jk:

(Actually, Brazil - just judging from the pictures we see here - seems to use "km" on a lot of signs. That seems unnecessary.)


----------



## Kanadzie

smokiboy said:


> On a side note, do we still need to put "km/h" on our speed limit signs?


Even Quebec puts the km/h on the speed limits when they are suggested but never when they are mandatory 

The Ontario approach is kind of weird. It seems almost all signs from the MTO have the km/h tab (on legal speed limts / white signs) but almost all signs maintained by municipalities have no km/h marking (in other words, standard Canadian speed limit sign)


----------



## sonysnob

A couple of pics of the 401 construction in Cambridge. Doesn`t look very interesting at this point...


----------



## sonysnob

Not mine, but worth watching:


----------



## Innsertnamehere

the recommended plan for upgrades to Highway 17 through Thunder Bay appears to include Canada's first Diverging Diamond interchange at Arthur Street.

http://www.thunderbayexpressway.ca/consultation-pic.html


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## ChrisZwolle

They went all-out on the Thunder Bay Expressway, a full-standard urban freeway with parclos, a freeway-to-freeway-like interchange at the Highway 11/17 turnoff and a wide median for future expansion. It's not some cheap upgrade of the existing road.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Stoney Trail, Calgary*

*Southwest Calgary Ring Road gets full financing*

*Alberta Transportation has signed an agreement with Mountain View Partners (MVP) to design, build, partially finance and operate the Southwest Calgary Ring Road project, creating local jobs in the short and long term.*

The contract is worth $1.42 billion in 2016 dollars, to be paid over the 35-year term of the contract, and follows a selection process which began in July 2015. 

The Southwest Calgary Ring Road will be built between Highway 8 and Macleod Trail SE. The project includes reconstruction of Glenmore Trail between Sarcee Trail and east of 37 Street. The project includes 31 kilometres of six- and eight-lane divided highway, 14 interchanges, one road flyover, one railway crossing (flyover), 49 bridges and three river crossings over the Elbow River and Fish Creek.

The Government of Alberta and the City of Calgary began planning for the Calgary Ring Road in the 1970s. During the 1980s and 1990s, the province bought most of the lands needed for the Transportation Utility Corridor around Calgary where the ring road would be built. When the southwest portion is complete, there will be roughly 91 kilometres of free flowing travel.

Mountain View Partners is a consortium consisting of:

* Project Lead: Meridiam, Kiewit, Ledcor, Connor Clark and Lunn
* Financing Lead: Meridiam
* Design-Construction Lead: Kiewit, Graham and Ledcor.
* Operation and Maintenance Lead: Alberta Highway Services Ltd.

Major construction is scheduled to begin this fall following preliminary work that began earlier this summer. The southwest portion of the ring road is expected to be open to traffic in 2021.​
Full press release: http://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?xID=43419D6A370C6-F108-C355-1A58CBC56D7E5163

This is one of the largest greenfield highway projects in Canada.


----------



## Kanadzie

ChrisZwolle said:


> They went all-out on the Thunder Bay Expressway, a full-standard urban freeway with parclos, a freeway-to-freeway-like interchange at the Highway 11/17 turnoff and a wide median for future expansion. It's not some cheap upgrade of the existing road.


Only in terms of planning, there isn't anything remotely like a shovel going to be near any dirt for decades more at least :lol:

I kind of wonder the idea of improving this road instead of moving the Trans-Canada route onto Hwy 102, which is about a dozen km shorter and bypasses Thunder Bay on the north. They could probably delay need for traffic improvements just by placing some signs indicating this fact on either end of the Hwy 102 intersections, I'm sure most traffic ignores this reality...


----------



## Innsertnamehere

My understanding is that MTO did this assessment as they expect to move on the project relatively soon, actually. I've heard talk of securing funding in the next year or two and starting construction before the end of the decade. The TB expressway project isn't expected to be a long range plan, the highway today is really busy (I believe 30-40,000 AADT in parts), and could really use the upgrade.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Innsertnamehere said:


> the recommended plan for upgrades to Highway 17 through Thunder Bay appears to include Canada's first Diverging Diamond interchange at Arthur Street.


I learned that Calgary is currently constructing a DDI at the MacLeod Trail / 162 Avenue SE intersection. The project website claims it's the first in Canada.


----------



## sonysnob

The Youtube police muted the song that I chose for this video, but I am sharing it anyways.

This is the 407/412/401 between Oshawa and Scaroborough.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ If you want to check if your music can be used on Youtube, search the song on Youtube, and see if it's uploaded by users other than 'official' or vevo channels. If it is, you're usually okay.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 216, Edmonton*

*Final leg of Edmonton's Anthony Henday Drive to open Saturday*

The final link in Anthony Henday Drive will open to traffic on Saturday afternoon, after a grand opening marking the first ring road in Alberta to be completed.

The ceremony to open the 27-kilometre, $1.81-billion northeast Anthony Henday Drive will be held on the new northbound bridge over the North Saskatchewan River.

Once the road is opened to traffic, the Henday is expected to provide motorists with 80 kilometres of free-flow traffic around Edmonton.

Construction started in June 2012. The opening falls on the scheduled completion date of Oct. 1, 2016.​
Full report: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...thony-henday-drive-to-open-saturday-1.3786054


----------



## Haljackey

Canada's first true ring road.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

How about Manitoba highways 100/101? Unlsee you mean fully-grade-separated


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The first freeway ring road of course.

Saskatoon also has a full ring road, which is nearly entirely a freeway, only a small section on the north side of the city has traffic lights. 

Winnipeg's Perimeter Highway has a very large number of traffic lights, uncontrolled access and railroad crossings. 

As most of Canada's larger city are located on the coast, large lake or major river, there aren't many beltways.


----------



## Kanadzie

Hamilton, Ont has a technically valid motorway-standard ring road (403 / QEW / Red Hill / Linc) for a few years already
The only real issue is congestion on the older sections are bad enough for it to not really be thought of as a "bypass"


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, technically it's possible to drive around Montréal on autoroutes as well, but it's not really a functional ring road, just a collection of autoroutes that allow a circular trip if you're okay with turning off all the time.

Sherbrooke is relatively close to a full ring road autoroute as well, but I don't know if there are plans to construct an eastern bypass,


----------



## sonysnob

Sherbrooke has a pretty well developed freeway network given the small size of the city. I think back in the height of the autoroute era, A-410 was supposed to link up to A-10 east of town, but that seems unlikely now. Just getting the extension to Route 108 will be a huge improvement.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

I believe Manitoba has big plans to eliminate most of the stoplights on the ring road. It won't be freeway standard for a long time though.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

Unless you wanna go all the way to Trois-Rivière, you still have to the City of Montreal.
with two bridges of A-640 over the rivers, they'd get there easily...
Niagara falls also has a full ring if I-190 through the states is counted lol


----------



## Haljackey

By first true ring road I mean 1 single highway that's a complete circle with grade separations / interchanges.

-----

Speaking of that road:


Electronic sign shows vulgar message of relief about Anthony Henday










http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...sage-of-relief-about-anthony-henday-1.3788310


----------



## sonysnob

^ Stay Classy Edmonton.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Sherbrooke is the second-largest city in Québec that is not Montréal or Québec City, or a suburb of those cities. So that may explain the relatively extensive autoroute access.

How many two-lane autoroutes are there remaining in Québec? Most of it is probably A50, A73 was recently expanded to a four lane divided. But apparently A20 and A55 still have some two-lane mileage left.


----------



## sonysnob

Gatineau is larger than Sherbrooke, but it's lumped in with Ottawa's CMA.

That list is basically correct for two lane autoroutes that remain, though there are a few additional two lane segments as well, such as A573, 955, and 530.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Also, Quebec is still building new parts of A20 as a super two. The highway is slowly going further north to Rimouski.


----------



## sonysnob

A few new photos of the construction on Highway 400 at the Highway 9 interchange north of the GTA. Construction is underway to widen the 400 through the Highway 9 interchange which has necessitated the replacement of the structure and interchange ramps.

Looking southerly along Highway 400 from the Carpool lot within the SW quadrant of the interchange. Grading and some paving for the widened southbound platform has been completed.








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...2016/09-Sep/400_cl_54-8_south_SB_Sep16_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...6/09-Sep/400_cl_54-8_south_SB_Sep16_24x16.jpg

Zoomed out northerly view from the Carpool lot towards the Highway 9 overpass. Grading for the new northbound loop ramp is visible.








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_.../2016/09-Sep/400_cl_54-9_north_w_Sep16_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...16/09-Sep/400_cl_54-9_north_w_Sep16_24x16.jpg

Close-up of the construction of the new structure. At this point, only the central pier and abutments for the new bridge are visible.








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_.../2016/09-Sep/400_cl_54-9_north_t_Sep16_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...16/09-Sep/400_cl_54-9_north_t_Sep16_24x16.jpg

Southerly view at the southbound off-ramp to Highway 9 from the 400.








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...2004/2016/09-Sep/400_dv_55_south_Sep16_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...4/2016/09-Sep/400_dv_55_south_Sep16_24x16.jpg

Southbound advanced view approaching the Highway 9 interchange.








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...4/2016/09-Sep/400_dv_55-25_south_Sep16_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...016/09-Sep/400_dv_55-25_south_Sep16_24x16.jpg

View looking easterly along the Canal Bank Road towards the Highway 400 overpass. These twin structures are being replaced as part of the Highway 9 construction project.








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_.../09-Sep/400_structure_55-25_east_Sep16_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...-Sep/400_structure_55-25_east_Sep16_24x16.jpg


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ It's kind of crazy how close yet far that is... Hwy 9 is the new #7


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## sonysnob

^ I actually thought exactly the same thing when I was editing those photos last night.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Sunshine Coast, B.C.*

*Sunshine Coast Fixed Link Feasibility Study*
This study examines the feasibility of a fixed link to replace the ferry service between the Sunshine Coast and the Lower Mainland.​
http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/t...es/vancouver-island/sunshine-coast-fixed-link










This could lead to some interesting infrastructure. It's a Norwegian-style project, a bridge, tunnel or road connection to a remote area. The Sunshine Coast has some 25,000 inhabitants that are only connected by ferries.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 7, Saskatchewan*

*Phase One of Highway 7 Twinning Opens to Traffic*

*Today, nine kilometres of newly twinned highway between Saskatoon and Vanscoy opened to traffic. This phase is the first of three in a major project to twin approximately 25 kilometres of Highway 7 between Saskatoon and Delisle. The Government of Canada will fund half the eligible costs to a maximum of $32 million.*

Highway 7 is a key trade route for the province and connects communities such as Kindersley, Rosetown, Delisle and Saskatoon, as well as Calgary and the ports on the west coast. Over the last 10 years, traffic volumes have increased by about 50 per cent, from 5,000 vehicles per day to about 9,100 per day.​
Full press release: https://www.saskatchewan.ca/government/news-and-media/2016/october/13/highway-7-twinning-opens


----------



## sonysnob

I was out on the recently completed section of Autoroute 73 south of Quebec City last weekend. I took some pictures:
































































The whole and full size images can be found here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/73/index.html


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ automatic deicing, interesting

I drove SK-7 once from Rosetown into Alberta, it's a relatively pleasant road even now... so flat and straight you still have decent passing opportunities even with relatively high (not really by Ontario standards) traffic volumes.


----------



## geogregor

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ automatic deicing, interesting


What is it? Heated bridge deck?

A73 looks great, proper rural motorway/freeway.


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## ChrisZwolle

It's probably some kind of spraying system. I've seen it in a number of European countries as well.


----------



## sonysnob

geogregor said:


> What is it? Heated bridge deck?
> 
> A73 looks great, proper rural motorway/freeway.


Typically they use sprinkler heads that are connected to a reservoir of anti-icing fluid. When the weather conditions are right, the springler heads will automatically spray anti-icing fluid onto the roadway.

I'm actually a bit surprised that it's still just a pilot project in Quebec. Other North American jurisdictions have been using this technology for several years now. It's particularly useful on curved bridges.









This is a picture of a similar sprinkler head on a bridge along Hwy 11 in Ontario.


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## Kanadzie

I was travelling in Alberta last week and noticed work has started on the reconstruction of Hwy 2 through Red Deer into a collector-express system and removing the left entrance from southbound Gaetz Ave (Hwy 2A) to Hwy 2 

I guess government has money to borrow 
http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/5969.htm
I don't have photos since was driving, but there are a lot of cones and lane closures on the local network in the area and they are digging down the wide median/hill between the Hwy 2 carriageways around Gaetz... revealing the nice chernozem 

There is also a relatively inexplicable closed carriageway / contraflow workzone at 67 St (Hwy 11) just east of the Hwy 2 interchange. I thought they were rebuilding the old overpass, but the traffic is flowing on both overpasses, the workzone is just before...

The full cloverleaf at Hwy 11A and Hwy 2 has been converted to a relatively wide-open diamond, and the carriageways on the side towards Sylvan is set up for an eventual twinning of the overpass. Traffic operations are better than I expected and it is working well

I also noticed, scores of crashed and abandoned vehicles in the median and shoulder ditches along Hwy 2 from roughly Lacombe to Nisku on several occasions, including a flipped over tractor trailer that someone was trying to flip over with some kind of construction equipment and 1 lane of 2 was closed... interesting kind of work-pace compared with say, Ontario.


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## ChrisZwolle

I was watching _Highway Thru Hell_ a while ago where they moved operations to Alberta. They were stunned to see so many abandoned trucks and cars in the ditch on the road to Fort McMurray. They weren't used to that in B.C.

Of course, it's a reality TV series, so not all of it may be completely authentic (though a lot better than _Ice Road Truckers_ probably).


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## Kanadzie

^^ I can understand the road to Fort Mac, since it is very far from population centres that could service them (basically, Edmonton and Fort Mac which is 450 km)
But I was between Calgary and Edmonton which is densely (for Alberta at least) populated strip...

I think what was is happening is the tow services preferring to work in the day or people who crash who hitch-hike home and decide what to do about it later... people are friendly and probably would offer a lift (or a typical Albertan driving the typical Albertan 4x4 pickup truck, would pull it out of the ditch) before any police came. I didn't see any badly damaged cars, just random prangs or buried in ditch...


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## sonysnob

I've noticed that in a lot of US states it is not uncommon to see abandoned or derelict vehicles on the side of the interstate as well.

That's something you'd almost never see in Ontario or Quebec.

An old vehicle of mine broke down on the side of the 400 just south of Steeles on a weekend earlier this summer. I was somewhat expecting it, so I had CAA, but I was actually surprised I was able to wait the 40 or so minutes that it took for CAA to respond without being approached by another tow truck.

I am not sure exactly what the law is, but I believe that there is some mechanism that allows tow trucks to remove vehicles from the side of a 400-series highway in the GTA without having the owners consent. I'd assume there would be some sort of intervention from a police officer to allow this to happen, but I am not actually certain.

I am sure other large urban centres have similar legislation.


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## NFZANMNIM

^^ Im guessing there should be some sort of OPP involvement.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 16 in Saskatchewan*

*Highway 16 twinning project expected to wrap up this month*

*The provincial government says it expects a $52.4 million highway twinning project east of Saskatoon to be open to traffic later this month, one year earlier than forecast. *

The Highway 16 twinning project includes the construction of 19.5 kilometres of new highway between Saskatoon and the Bradwell access road, shifting the highway north of Clavet, and a new CN railway crossing.​
Full report: http://thestarphoenix.com/business/...inning-project-expected-to-wrap-up-this-month


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## MichiH

^^ I think these highway twinning projects in Saskatchewan will not be grade-separated, are they?


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## ChrisZwolle

Twinning projects on the Canadian prairies are generally at-grade with a 110 km/h speed limit. 

However the Regina Bypass is a freeway-standard road with controlled access.


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## ChrisZwolle

Interesting, I found out that the Highway 1 / Highway 624 intersection to Pilot Butte (east of Regina) will be a diverging diamond interchange. This will be the second one in Canada (it's completed sooner than the Thunder Bay DDI, but later than the Calgary DDI).

It's interesting to note that during a 2013 open house - when a DDI was a completely unknown concept at the time - 32 out of 41 attendees preferred the DDI over other interchange types. Usually people are reserved, if not hostile, to new and unknown concepts.


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## Innsertnamehere

there are a few at grade intersections on the Regina bypass, it isn't entirely a freeway.


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## Haljackey

Video of the world's first electronic toll highway: The 407 in Greater Toronto

Put annotations on for info


----------



## MichiH

Haljackey said:


> Video of the *world's first electronic toll highway*: The 407 in Greater Toronto


I don't think so... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_toll_collection


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## Haljackey

Hmm... The claim might be for the first for all-electronic tolling, rather than the EZ-pass / regular toll booth hybrid.

"Highway 407 is the first electronically operated toll highway opened in the world; there are no toll booths along the length of the route."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_407


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## MichiH

^^ Norway has no toll booths...


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## keokiracer

But that was in cities, not on highways (at first)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 104, Nova Scotia*

* Highway 104 Twinning Project Officially Opens *

Finance Minister Randy Delorey, on behalf of Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal Minister Geoff MacLellan and Sean Fraser, Member of Parliament for Central Nova, on behalf of Amarjeet Sohi, Minister of Infrastructure and Communities, officially opened the Highway 104 twinning project to traffic today, Oct. 22.

The multi-phased Highway 104 project is a 14.5-kilometre new four-lane highway that stretches from west of Addington Forks Road to the east point of Taylors Road, Antigonish County. It will improve safety, ease congestion and cut travel time for drivers. 

The cost of the project was $159 million. The Government of Canada contributed $55 million from the Building Canada Fund, with the province contributing the remaining $104 million.​
Full press release: http://novascotia.ca/news/release/?id=20161022001

The opened segment is east of Antigonish, from Beech Hill Road to Taylor Road, approximately 7 kilometers in length. It wasn't just a simple twinning, but a new alignment.


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## sonysnob

From what I can recall, when the 407 was first opened it was touted in the Toronto area as "The Worlds Most Advanced Tollway". In the North American context, the 91 Express Lanes in Orange County opened before the 407 as an all-electronic toll facility, however, the distinction has always been that the 91 Express Lanes were just that, express lanes, and the 407 was the first full-scale all electronic toll highway.

Of course, this was all written in the 1990s, long before the wikipedia and all that, so it would have been pretty easy to erroneously tout the highway as being first at something and not be questioned about that fact.


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## ChrisZwolle

sonysnob said:


> Of course, this was all written in the 1990s, long before the wikipedia and all that, so it would have been pretty easy to erroneously tout the highway as being first at something and not be questioned about that fact.


Yes, it's fairly common to claim something to be the 'first', 'oldest', 'widest', 'longest', etc. while it in fact is not. Even today in the Wikipedia age it happens frequently. Some are also hard to verify (for example the Netherlands calling A2 to be the widest LED lit road in the world). One generally needs to be cautious with such claims. 

However, the general public doesn't have detailed knowledge on such topics and acccepts such claims as a fact. Can't blame them though, you can't be an expert on everything. And even experts get it wrong sometimes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Alberta*

A second highway to the Fort McMurray area has been proposed, it's called the 'East Clearwater Highway' and would run from Anzac to east of Fort McKay. 

The need for a second highway access to Fort McMurray became apparent during the disastrous wildfire earlier this year when 88,000 people had to evacuate from Fort McMurray, Highway 63 being the only road access to and from the city.

A new highway could also take some industrial traffic out of the city via Highway 881.


----------



## Exethalion

I felt sorry for the people who drove north along highway 63, only to find that there was nowhere else to go, and eventually required escort back through the fire zone to the south.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, they have the oil camps there that can accommodate thousands of workers. But due to the low oil prices, many accommodations were vacant, so there was enough room for evacuees. However, it would be difficult to supply them long-term with road access cut off by the fire. Another problem was very heavy smoke, so they decided to evacuate them all by air and road. 

I've also seen plans floating around for an east-west route to Highway 35. That would be a nearly 250 km road through the remote forest areas.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Gardiner Expressway, Toronto*

Exit numbering has been introduced to the Gardiner Expressway this weekend.

_ • 36 new exit ramp signs installed _

Numerous maintenance tasks completed on Gardiner Expressway last weekend

This is reportedly the exit numbering system:

141 - Kipling Ave
142 - Islington Ave
143* - Park Lawn Road
145* - Lake Shore Blvd
146* - South Kingsway
149 - Jameson Ave
153 - Spadina Ave
154 - Yonge/Bay/York Sts
155 - Jarvis St
157 - Lake Shore Blvd

* denotes assumed number


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## Cricket_Fan

^^ Seems like a continuation of QEW exit numbering. Wonder why, since QEW is provincially owned and Garinder is municipally owned.


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## Innsertnamehere

A part of the QEW was downloaded to the city in the 90's, becoming part of the gardiner. The exit pictured was part of the QEW 20 years ago.


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## Moth27

It also just makes sense - the QEW goes straight into the Gardiner...


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## ChrisZwolle

Did anyone see the sneak peak of the new TV series Heavy Rescue: 401? The series starts in 2017, but they recently aired an episode on Discovery Channel.

It's basically the exact same concept as _Highway Thru Hell_, but based on Ontario's 400-series highways. There are some cool aerial shots, the usual heavy rescue vehicles and because the GTA has a lot of highway cameras, they also included some CCTV footage of crashes. 

Those rotators are interesting, I don't recall seeing them on European freeways, over here they usually use large mobile construction cranes to handle difficult wrecks. Rotators are expensive equipment (they can cost up to $ 750,000) but they are more mobile than large cranes and require less space, so they can often keep one lane of traffic open.


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## Haljackey

I've always thought of an alternative east-west highway through Ontario, using the 402/403/QEW/Gardiner as one highway. The section of the 401 between 402 and 403 would be a co-signed highway.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Did anyone see the sneak peak of the new TV series Heavy Rescue: 401? The series starts in 2017, but they recently aired an episode on Discovery Channel.


Yep. It seems to have pretty high production quality, possibly surpassing Highway Through Hell. 

There's a little bit of video & info on the Discovery Website:
http://www.discovery.ca/Shows/Heavy-Rescue-401


----------



## NFZANMNIM

Maybe upgrading this road 881, road 956, road 155 would be a good alternative to the road down to Edmonton, and a shortcut to Eastern Canada and the Midwest US


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## NFZANMNIM

Regina Bypass project, SK


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ I think it is actually less in Montreal than Toronto, but both are quite high and comparable:
> https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-012-x/2011003/tbl/tbl1a-eng.cfm


The problem with data on _commuting_ is that it accounts typically for only 25-30% of all vehicle kilometers. The modal split is much more geared towards driving if all travel is included, and not just commuting to work. So while it is valuable data, it doesn't paint the whole picture. Especially because data like this is often simplified to '20% of people use transit' while in reality it is different.


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## Innsertnamehere

it is useful in terms of peak infrastructure stress. Ultimately infrastructure is almost always built to accommodate peak commuting traffic, when commuting patterns matter most. High commuting modal shares in transit ultimately means lower rush hour stress levels on the roads. There is excess road capacity in off peak periods, and thus more trips are made by automobile as it is a more attractive option.


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## ChrisZwolle

Well, that is more relevant to the morning rush hour which is largely driven by commuter traffic, while the afternoon rush hour has much more mixed traffic. But I wouldn't want to underestimate the amount of trips taken during the morning rush hour that are not commuting from home to work (or school). Apart from truck traffic, there is also a considerable amount of traffic for workers with no fixed workplace (such as contractors). When the construction sector collapsed in the Netherlands in '09 due to the recession, there were notably fewer vans on the road and less early (pre-7 a.m.) congestion.


----------



## xzmattzx

NFZANMNIM said:


> Regina Bypass project, SK


The picture is too small to read. Is this with interchanges?


----------



## NFZANMNIM

Here you go, a map with how each interchange will look like








Source


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## Kanadzie

A few more IC's on Hwy 1 would be much welcome.
The design at new ring / Hwy 1 west is surprisingly complex and large in a land so typically devoid of viaducts of any kind...

Running into Regina at night or any time is sure annoying... far from the city the speed limit drops to 90 or something silly, and then the traffic light forest begins...

The detour of the new ring south of the city adds some distance, it might be easier to keep going on Hwy 1 to the old ring. But you would still have to deal then with the worst of the traffic lights.


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## NFZANMNIM

It's only good if you wanna go to Moosejaw and West. Not so good if you wanna go up to Saskatoon.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 1, British Columbia*

*Trans-Canada Highway improvements completed at Hoffman’s Bluff*

The second phase of the Pritchard to Hoffman’s Bluff project has been completed. Work involved straightening and four-laning the highway, improving accesses, and adding median barriers, wider paved shoulders and rumble strips. An adjoining 2.8 kilometres were upgraded under the first phase of the Pritchard to Hoffman’s Bluff project that opened to traffic in July 2015. This section of Highway 1 is located approximately 40 kilometres east of Kamloops and, in the past, has had a higher than average collision rate.​
Full press release: https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2016TRAN0403-002703


4-Lane Section on Phase 2 of Hoffman's Bluff Completed by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr


----------



## ssiguy2

Is HWY#1 now completely 4 lanes from Salmon Arm to Kamloops?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Last year's Google Street View shows that Chase - Salmon Arm is a three-lane highway.

They built some four lane stretches without a jersey barrier in the median (but there is space for it).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 16, Edmonton, Alberta*

*Yellowhead Trail freeway project will mean faster and safer travel, and more efficient trade*

Today, the Honourable Amarjeet Sohi, federal Minister of Infrastructure and Communities, and Brian Mason, Alberta’s Minister of Infrastructure and Minister of Transportation, along with Don Iveson, Mayor of Edmonton, announced joint funding of more than $1 billion for the conversion of a portion of Highway 16, also known as the Yellowhead Trail, from an expressway into a freeway without traffic signals.

Yellowhead Trail is a vital 25-kilometre corridor within the City of Edmonton that sees traffic volumes of up to 81,000 vehicles per day — almost 20 per cent of which are transport trucks.

This project will address bottlenecks on the Yellowhead Trail that presently slow both commercial and passenger vehicles by eliminating intersections, increasing capacity and facilitating a consistent traffic flow and speed. These changes will greatly improve driver safety and maximize the flow of traffic along this critical corridor that serves all four western provinces as part of the National Highway System. 

With today’s announcement, the City can move forward with more detailed planning design, including consultation, with construction expected to begin by 2021.

The governments of Canada and Alberta are each contributing up to $241,600,000 for this project. The City of Edmonton will be responsible for all remaining costs. This project has a total estimated cost of more than $1 billion.​
Full press release: https://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?xID=450225416DED2-E9AA-179F-2215F79BCF350CD1


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## Kanadzie

^^ The cost is so high, I wonder if it is really so important. Just for city of Edmonton taxpayers, at least 0,52 G$, with total population 0,9 M. Per household it is something like $1500 capital debt on top of each one, when they just opened a freeway bypass not very far to the north.

But, to build now will be inexpensive compared to if another boom happens and it gets clogged up like was happening circa 2007...


----------



## Innsertnamehere

It is something that should have happened 20 years ago in the first place. Much like how Toronto is dropping over a 2 billion on the Gardiner in the next 10 years.. dense urban environments require very expensive highways.

It also annoys me to no end that BC hasn't been installing median barriers along the Trans Canada where it widens it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The $ 1 billion cost suggest they may also reconstruct the existing grade-separated portions of the Yellowhead Highway through Edmonton. It's just over 20 kilometers, so it comes down to approximately $ 50 million per kilometer, which is high, but not extraordinary for an urban freeway. Perhaps they'll also include an extension of the Wayne Gretzy Drive as af freeway to the Yellowhead Highway.


----------



## Kanadzie

Innsertnamehere said:


> It is something that should have happened 20 years ago in the first place. Much like how Toronto is dropping over a 2 billion on the Gardiner in the next 10 years.. dense urban environments require very expensive highways.
> 
> It also annoys me to no end that BC hasn't been installing median barriers along the Trans Canada where it widens it.


It probably should have been done before, but the environment isn't that dense... it's typically industrial parks on one side and the train tracks on the other, they could probably even just trim parking lots and add some driveways for the businesses to have access by "backage" roads using the existing grid more or less

I'm not sure how much work they would want to do on the existing upgraded parts... those SPUI's they put up at e.g. 97 St cost a fortune and are not old at all (10 years?) 

Realistically it looks like they want to spend billion for perhaps four overpasses :lol:


----------



## Kanadzie

^^

I found some information about this project of the Yellowhead through Edmonton
https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_plans/roads/design_planning/yellowhead-trail-strategic-plan.aspx

It does not seem very ambitious considering the investment:nuts:


----------



## sonysnob

The MTO has recently published the TESR document for the proposed widening of Hwy 3 around the community of Essex, east of the City of Windsor:

https://sites.google.com/site/highway3widening/home

The figures:
https://goo.gl/1xzVBv


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kanadzie said:


> ^^
> 
> I found some information about this project of the Yellowhead through Edmonton
> https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_plans/roads/design_planning/yellowhead-trail-strategic-plan.aspx
> 
> It does not seem very ambitious considering the investment:nuts:


A billion dollars just for three new interchanges appears expensive indeed. I'm not sure how much right-of-way is required to upgrade the alignment to freeway standards as well. 

_Yellowhead Trail has mature and fully developed areas on both the north and south sides which have been a key consideration in developing the strategy. Depending upon the scale of improvement within the corridor, some property acquisition will be required._


----------



## sonysnob

Video of Autoroute 5 in the Gatineau Region of Quebec:


----------



## Jschmuck

^^ Hmm. When I was at the age of not being allowed to drive (16years and younger), I always thought those types of landscapes were boring. But after obtaining my basic class D license at 16, and a class A license at 23, I have since always felt its breathtaking viewing and traveling through those landscapes. Just love the ability to see for 10/20/50? miles ahead, from side to side. As opposed to the what I call claustrophobia of thick forested hills of eastern US and viewing nothing but trees on the sides, and maybe a mile or so ahead.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ it's pretty enjoyable but the speed limits really are an aggravation, especially on the divided highways, 100 mph is not fast, but the RCMP will not appreciate it :/

I like driving around in Saskatchewan though, it's pretty pleasant.
Only near Alberta in the southern part does it get kind of "badlands" / desert and maybe somewhat of a dust-bowl atmosphere (sparse population and what you see of people is pretty unimpressive)


----------



## Cricket_Fan

Some news about the impending widening of the 401 between Hespeler and Townline Rd in Cambridge..

http://www.570news.com/2017/01/27/401-expansion-project-cambridge-gets-96-million-boost/



> Local MP’s announced Friday that the Government of Canada will be contributing over $96-million towards the highway expansion project between Townline and Hespeler Road.
> 
> The project involves widening the 401 from six to ten lanes between Hespeler and Townline, installing new high occupancy vehicle lanes, and replacing the Hespeler and Franklin Boulevard bridges which sit over the highway.
> 
> In a release, officials say the project aims to improve safety and traffic flow through the region, and the high occupancy vehicle lanes aim to promote environmentally-friendly transportation–like carpooling.
> 
> According to the Ontario Government’s website, they’re targeting 2021 or 2022 completion date for the stretch between Hespeler and Townline.


The construction is targeted to begin next year. I can't believe it will take 4-5 years to widen 4 km of highway, keeping in mind that Franklin and Hespeler overpasses are supposed to be replaced within this year and perhaps part way through 2018. There are no other bridges to widen that I am aware of.


----------



## Haljackey

Cricket_Fan said:


> I can't believe it will take 4-5 years to widen 4 km of highway, keeping in mind that Franklin and Hespeler overpasses are supposed to be replaced within this year and perhaps part way through 2018. There are no other bridges to widen that I am aware of.


Highway 401 is so freaking busy that all existing lanes on this stretch need to be kept open during construction. This vastly complicates the undertaking and inflates the cost and timeline of the project.

Want a shorter term headache? Close down a lane or two or shut down the entire highway. What's that? There's no alternative highway to take? Well, that's poor planning.

If the Highway 7 freeway was done by now it could take a bit of stress off the 401 and allow projects like this to progress faster.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ I'm not sure if it is so necessary
For example the Credit River section of 401 is from six to twelve lanes, and it MUCH more congested than the Cambridge part
And the work is somehow cheaper (81 M$) and faster (2016-2019) (and OK, it's 11% shorter)
https://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2016/04/ontario-widening-highway-401-in-mississauga.html


----------



## isaidso

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ it's pretty enjoyable but the speed limits really are an aggravation, especially on the divided highways, 100 mph is not fast, but the RCMP will not appreciate it :/
> 
> I like driving around in Saskatchewan though, it's pretty pleasant.
> Only near Alberta in the southern part does it get kind of "badlands" / desert and maybe somewhat of a dust-bowl atmosphere (sparse population and what you see of people is pretty unimpressive)


I love driving the prairies and especially the Badlands. The locals predictably have little appreciation for it. People cherish what is uncommon. Coming from the east I love arid/semi-arid, people on the prairie get excited over green pastoral farmland. :|


----------



## isaidso

ChrisZwolle said:


> Tolling has been proposed to twin multipe stretches of the 100-series highways for some time now.
> 
> A viability study has been completed to twin 8 segments of Highways 101, 104 & 107 using tolls.
> 
> http://globalnews.ca/news/3198960/t...will-allow-twinning-decades-earlier-province/


The only place in Nova Scotia that won't have a problem with it is Halifax. It's one of the least urbanized provinces in Canada. This will make all those towns even less viable than they already are. If they're looking to empty out the countryside at an even quicker pace, this is a good way to do it. The population outside Halifax is already in danger of imploding.


----------



## sonysnob

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ I'm not sure if it is so necessary
> For example the Credit River section of 401 is from six to twelve lanes, and it MUCH more congested than the Cambridge part
> And the work is somehow cheaper (81 M$) and faster (2016-2019) (and OK, it's 11% shorter)
> https://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2016/04/ontario-widening-highway-401-in-mississauga.html


The construction through Cambridge is much more complex than it is for the work in Mississauga.

The widening through Mississauga only has one underpass to be constructed (Fletchers Creek), and one overpass (2nd Line), which will just be a pedestrian bridge.

The 401 through Cambridge, on the other hand, requires four underpasses. Two for the Speed River crossing, and two railway underpasses. The Speed River crossings in particular are complex, as the entire structures are being removed and replaced, including abutments, something that is atypical of most highway widening projects.

It's also easier to stage the construction of collector lanes, then it is for a straight highway widening.


----------



## Cricket_Fan

^^ The new widening between Hespeler and Townline doesn't have the same complexity. They have to replace the Hespeler and Franklin Blvd bridges which should be done by end of this year or sometime into next year. 

Also, sorry but I don't understand why they would have to close lanes in order to speed up construction. In Illinois, they are widening at 35-40 km long part of I-90 and they are not closing any lanes. They started 2 years ago and are almost done. On the other hand, we're taking 4 years to widen a 4 km stretch?


----------



## sonysnob

Oh, sorry, I thought you were talking about the current work, not the Hespeler Road to Townline segment.

I don't know why that project will take as long as it will. Certainly there is a benefit to the contractor in allowing for a longer working time, which allows a contractor more flexibility to complete the project, while scheduling work crews for other projects as well, which should lower the cost to the government. Staging the project over more years also allows the government to pay less per annum for the project as well, which certainly can have a benefit to bean counters. The most likely explanation however, is that work on the Hespeler and Franklin Road overpasses will not be undertaken at the same time, which will help to mitigate some of the local traffic issues that may be caused by construction within Cambridge. Certainly I don't think there is much need to expedite the project east of Hespeler Road as the 401 is seldom congested that far to the east.


----------



## Cricket_Fan

^^ If it's to save money then I guess I can live with it. You're right, that portion rarely sees congestion (perhaps in rush hour, but I never drive there during rush hour so I wouldn't know).


----------



## Innsertnamehere

http://barrie.ctvnews.ca/bold-new-plan-to-improve-traffic-in-south-barrie-1.3258856

*Bold new plan to improve traffic in south Barrie (by constructing a Diverging Diamond at Mapleview Road)
*




> The City of Barrie is considering a diverging diamond interchange as a possible solution to traffic problems at Mapleview Drive and Highway 400.
> The concept has been proposed by the Ministry of Transportation which has completed a draft plan.
> The new interchange means traffic would no longer have to stop when getting onto or off the highway.
> “The movements on and off the highway would generally be free flow. The traffic signals would basically work one cycle would be green time in the westbound direction and then the other cycle would be green time in the eastbound direction,” said Ralph Scheunemann, an engineer with the City of Barrie.
> There are more than 60 diverging diamond interchanges across the United Sates and one in Calgary.
> Officials in Washington State say these interchanges have reduced collisions by 50 per cent.


This interchange is extremely busy as it leads to the main shopping area of Barrie, and is one of the only diamond interchanges in the province. It needs the additional capacity that a diverging diamond provides, though I worry about the pedestrian safety that these interchange designs provide.

If it is as quick as they claim it is though, hopefully it can be built in the next few years.


----------



## sonysnob

Video of the 401 through the GTA starting in Courtice, and ending at the 400 taken last month in January:


----------



## sonysnob

isaidso said:


> The only place in Nova Scotia that won't have a problem with it is Halifax. It's one of the least urbanized provinces in Canada. This will make all those towns even less viable than they already are. If they're looking to empty out the countryside at an even quicker pace, this is a good way to do it. The population outside Halifax is already in danger of imploding.


I have to say that I really don't agree with that sentiment. Tolling at a rate of 5 cents per kilometre doesn't seem like a significant tax burden, and if tolling is the difference between building the infrastructure vs. not building the infrastructure, than I'd say tolling it seems like a no brainer.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

C$ 0.05 / kilometer seems fair. It's substantially less than what you pay for a typical toll road in France or Spain (around C$ 0.15 - 0.17 per kilometer).


----------



## sonysnob

Photos of the newly reconstructed westbound lanes of Highway 401 between Tilbury and Chatham:

Westerly view from overtop the 401 from Drake Road overpass:









Easterly view from overtop the 401 from Drake Road overpass. The future median cross-over for the 2017 contract is visible beyond the drain:









Westerly view at the Dillon Road overpass:









Westerly view west of the Bloomfield Road interchange:


----------



## Kanadzie

sonysnob said:


> I have to say that I really don't agree with that sentiment. Tolling at a rate of 5 cents per kilometre doesn't seem like a significant tax burden, and if tolling is the difference between building the infrastructure vs. not building the infrastructure, than I'd say tolling it seems like a no brainer.


I'm not sure if the twinning is really worth it, especially for many of the roads they're talking about... e.g. Hwy 103 to Bridgewater always seemed fine to me when I was using it.

If you compare the previous / other toll road in NS, the 104 Cobequid Pass route, the previous road was so windy and congested and dangerous in rugged terrain.

But many of these roads now proposed are rather good quality 2-lane expressways already with good alignments...


----------



## Haljackey

Great pics and video!

I drive the 401 to and from Windsor multiple times a month. It really grinds my gears that this reconstruction is not adding a 3rd lane and median. This was the perfect opportunity to start work on it.

So much freaking truck traffic on this stretch.


----------



## sonysnob

^ I've obviously said my piece on that matter before... but I'll say this -- I'm sure the MTO is getting lots of angry letters about the fact they didn't widen the highway to six lanes.


----------



## Cricket_Fan

I can understand why they're not doing it. Widening to 6 lanes isn't just as simple as filling in the median. I am not sure the median is wide enough across the entire length from Tilbury to London to support 2 lanes, a concrete barrier and shoulders (the current shoulders are nearly non existent on that stretch). They might have also to reconstruct or widen overhead bridges. The traffic isn't nearly enough to justify 6 lanes, though I suppose there's always the argument about trucks.

I am personally looking forward to this entire stretch getting reconstructed -- the road is in terrible shape. There's still no word on parts of the stretch between Chatham and Elgin County.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Remarkable, considering they are currently constructing a new four lane cable-stayed bridge across the Nipigon River.

Though it does remain a weak spot, being the only east-west link in Ontario (Eastern & Western Canada). Where would such a bridge cross the river? North or south of Lake Nipigon? Perhaps a new road to Pickle Lake (where it could connect to the Northern Ontario Resource Trail)? Or more in the direction of Dryden, bypassing the Thunder Bay area?


----------



## sonysnob

^ Those are questions that I don't know the answer to...

But I think the most likely solution is to extend a road easterly from Hwy 585 at Cameron Falls. The river is quite narrow through there, and there is actually already a single lane bridge that crosses the river to service a hydro electric dam. It wouldn't be much of a stretch to link that road to the Polly Lake Road that already extends west of Highway 11. Alternatively, it would also not be too much trouble just to build a new road connection direction to Hwy 11, and bypassing the Polly Lake Road.

The existing bridge is on google maps here:
https://goo.gl/0GjmUR

Hwy 585 has street view, but the single lane bridge does not.


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## Haljackey

Redundancy is a good idea.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They can create redundancy too if they built the Nipigon Bridge with two separate spans next to each other. In the unlikely* case of a failure, the other span would remain accessible. 

* not so unlikely last year...


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## Kanadzie

^^ that's actually the plan

but incomprehensibly the staging was build 1 2-lane bridge, demolish old bridge, build 2nd 2 lane bridge, but then, the 1st bridge broke and the old one was gone already :lol:


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Although there was no formal announcement of completion, the 417 extension appears complete. This was a small project to construct a single new interchange at Campbell Road and extend the highway roughly 5km. It was originally scheduled to be completed in 2016 and is shown as open on Google Maps.


----------



## sonysnob

A small up date showing some of the signs for the 412 interchange on Highway 401 in Durham Region outside of Toronto:














































Full size:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hwy401_p11_images.htm


----------



## NFZANMNIM

sonysnob said:


> A small up date showing some of the signs for the 412 interchange on Highway 401 in Durham Region outside of Toronto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Full size:
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hwy401_p11_images.htm


This one doesn't look like it was done according to standards. The road markings on the sign are doing whatever they wanna do


----------



## MichiH

Innsertnamehere said:


> Although there was no formal announcement of completion, the 417 extension appears complete. This was a small project to construct a single new interchange at Campbell Road and extend the highway roughly 5km. It was originally scheduled to be completed in 2016 and is shown as open on Google Maps.


It was already divided in Mid 2016:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=134917369&postcount=3882
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=136285762&postcount=3963


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## ChrisZwolle

*A73 Québec City*

A 4.5 kilometer segment of southbound Autoroute 73 (Autoroute Laurentienne) will be widened to three lanes. It's between Rue de la Faune and Boulevard Louis-XIV.

A future project will also expand A973 into central Québec City.

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle...te-laurentienne-decision-ministere-transports


----------



## sonysnob

A video of Hwy 3 and 401 in Southwestern Ontario:


----------



## sonysnob

Another video from me... this one was shot on the day after the one above, on the return trip home:


----------



## VoltAmps

^^

That left lane merge is terrible


----------



## sonysnob

^ Yeah, 1960s-era highway engineering at its finest.


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## Innsertnamehere

In amazed they didn't fix it when they upgraded highway 6 to a freeway 10 years ago or so.


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## sonysnob

^ I'm not too surprised that they didn't. As bad as the Hwy 6 interchange is, the MTO hasn't come up with a future cross-section for the 403 between Burlington and Hamilton. MTO is pretty averse to building new structures with a 75-100 year design life without knowing how wide the freeway is going to be at the end of those 75-100 years. There is no easy solution to fixing that interchange.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ The 403 / 6 "north" interchange isn't really that bad though. Until the overpasses start dropping concrete Turcot style, how could any investment (considering we are talking millions) be justified?

The only really annoying part is the 6 S -> 403 E movement, mostly because of the curve along 403. The merge lane is very long, at rush hour it is relatively unpleasant, but not much worse than the middle lane...
But the whole 403 (erm, rush hour in the GTA) is pretty unpleasant :lol:

If MTO is spending money in the area it would be better to try and clean up the approach of the 403 to the QEW and the weird right-lane "must exit" onto Fairview St. They put a lot of signs but people always seem surprised and there ends up a traffic jam resulting from it or dangerous lane-changes.


----------



## sonysnob

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ The 403 / 6 "north" interchange isn't really that bad though. Until the overpasses start dropping concrete Turcot style, how could any investment (considering we are talking millions) be justified?
> 
> The only really annoying part is the 6 S -> 403 E movement, mostly because of the curve along 403. The merge lane is very long, at rush hour it is relatively unpleasant, but not much worse than the middle lane...
> But the whole 403 (erm, rush hour in the GTA) is pretty unpleasant :lol:
> 
> If MTO is spending money in the area it would be better to try and clean up the approach of the 403 to the QEW and the weird right-lane "must exit" onto Fairview St. They put a lot of signs but people always seem surprised and there ends up a traffic jam resulting from it or dangerous lane-changes.


MTO currently has a study ongoing that will deal with both the short term rehabilitative needs of the Freeman interchange, in addition to a long term improvement strategy. I'm not sure what the exact timeframe of the study is, but I think they are looking to start doing bridge rehabs on some of the bridges in the next 5 or so years.

I think the MTO would like to address the 'must-exit' situation at Fairview too... though I think it might be replaced by a 'must-exit' situation for Brant Street, at least in the interim.

A lot of work has been done in the vicinity of the Hwy 6/403 interchange over the past few years. Most notably, the speed change lane from the ramp from Hwy 6 to the eastbound 403 was extended. Work also lowered the platform of the 403 beneath both the Plains Road overpass, and the ramps to and from Hwy 6 to eliminate the over-height vehicle restrictions on all of those overpasses.


----------



## Balkanada

VoltAmps said:


> ^^
> 
> That left lane merge is terrible


Yup. I drive by there every day and get anxiety from it


----------



## xzmattzx

A highway connecting Welland and the QEW has been re-proposed:




> *New highway needed for federal gateway designation*
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> For instance, he said a road needs to be built as soon as possible connecting Highway 140 to the QEW in Fort Erie.
> 
> “We have to complete that east-west link,” Badawey said, referring to the highway proposed about a decade ago.
> 
> “It has to be done. We can’t wait for that … especially while (the Welland General Electric plant) is being built,” he said.
> 
> “We need to give them some more infrastructure as it relates to roads. We can’t expect them to go to Buffalo down Highway 3, or down Netherby Road. We have to have four lanes between the Peace Bridge and the 140, and that will also open up that whole industrial area and make it a lot more enticing for industrial growth.”
> 
> ...



http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/2017/03/06/new-highway-needed-for-federal-gateway-designation


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## Kanadzie

^^ I always wondered about that road. They were studying it as part of the Mid-Pen, then the Liberals studied it and said, oh, Mid-Pen is not needed but this road is specifically
but it seems almost like it is the least-important part of it...


----------



## sonysnob

^ Yeah, I don't get the excitement for the far eastern leg of the MidPen either. Both Welland, and Port Colborne could really use some new economic growth, but it doesn't seem to me like access to the QEW is really all that difficult as is. Certainly Hwy 3 is a good road that's already mostly four lanes already, and none of the regional roads are really all that inefficient.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Cobequid Pass*

The tolls at Cobequid Pass (Nova Scotia Highway 104) may be coming to an end in 2020, the media reports. When built in 1997, it was anticipated that the toll would be collected for 30 years until the debt has been paid off. Now that revenues are higher than forecasted, the Cobequid Pass may become de-tolled by 2020.

http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/light-at...id-pass-to-end-sooner-than-expected-1.3323317


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## Ryme Intrinseca

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ The 403 / 6 "north" interchange isn't really that bad though. Until the overpasses start dropping concrete Turcot style, how could any investment (considering we are talking millions) be justified?


I find the cultural aspect of this fascinating. In probably most of the US this kind of directional interchange with offside entries/exits is completely normal and no one bats an eyelid. But to my British eyes and it seems to Canadian ones, an offside entry/exit is a scarily substandard bit of infrastructure.

There's a similar thing going on with cloverleafs, which are a cardinal sin in the UK or California, but de rigueur in Germany or the Midwest.


----------



## sonysnob

Ryme Intrinseca said:


> I find the cultural aspect of this fascinating. In probably most of the US this kind of directional interchange with offside entries/exits is completely normal and no one bats an eyelid. But to my British eyes and it seems to Canadian ones, an offside entry/exit is a scarily substandard bit of infrastructure.
> 
> There's a similar thing going on with cloverleafs, which are a cardinal sin in the UK or California, but de rigueur in Germany or the Midwest.


^ I don't know if that's really a fair sentiment to make broad reaching cultural observations after reading a complaint about a single interchange. 

The 6/403 interchange carries a heavy volume of traffic and isn't geometrically very forgiving. Opened in 1963, The 403/6 interchange is one of the oldest (if not the oldest) remaining freeway to freeway interchanges in Southern Ontario.

I don't hear the same complaints about the left exits and entrances for the 407 ramps at the Freeman interchange to the east, or about the 416/417 interchange in Ottawa either. Both of which are much better designed, even though they still feature left exits and entrances.


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

That's why I said 'it seems'.


----------



## ssiguy2

I've always thought that the 402 should have been extended past London and gone to Welland/Ft.Erie. Running it further eastward it would travel between London and St,Thomas and continue roughly parallel to HWY#3 running thru to Alymer/Tilsonburg/Simcoe/Dehi and on to Welland. 

It would relieve traffic on the 401 between the 402 & 403 thru Greater London, offer a vital alternative route to the truck overburdened 401, and serve communities that have no freeway service. It would also help spark development in a region of the province which is often overlooked.


----------



## VoltAmps

Ryme Intrinseca said:


> I find the cultural aspect of this fascinating. In probably most of the US this kind of directional interchange with offside entries/exits is completely normal and no one bats an eyelid. But to my British eyes and it seems to Canadian ones, an offside entry/exit is a scarily substandard bit of infrastructure.
> 
> There's a similar thing going on with cloverleafs, which are a cardinal sin in the UK or California, but de rigueur in Germany or the Midwest.


I'm from the US and I'm the one that pointed out how substandard it looks...and its in Canada


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

VoltAmps said:


> I'm from the US and I'm the one that pointed out how substandard it looks...and its in Canada


As I say, familiarity with this kind of configuration would be regional within the US as well. I-64 alone has a dozen or so, e.g.:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@37.7941868,-79.3966154,15z
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@38.2703748,-88.9315383,15z
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@37.7301244,-81.1936795,15z

But in some parts of the country you might never encounter one.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Yup. The US eastern seaboard generally has a lot older highways that are more substandard than those out west.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

In that aspect, the difference between the freeway systems of Montréal and Toronto is quite striking.


----------



## Haljackey

Info about the Highway 427 extension north of Toronto:
http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2017/03/highway-427-expansion-616-m-design-build-contract-signed










616 million to expand 4km of existing highway, and build 6.6km of new highway.

The extension is shorter than I hoped. I am hopeful it is designed for another potential extension in mind.


----------



## Kanadzie

ChrisZwolle said:


> In that aspect, the difference between the freeway systems of Montréal and Toronto is quite striking.


It's valid but worth noting the Toronto freeway system is rather "second-generation" or beyond. For example the initial 4 / 6 lane Hwy 401 with cloverleafs and the ludicrous interchange at the (4-lane) Hwy 27 and the Airport Expressway was not at all like it is now:lol:

However, Montreal's freeway network is essentially as-built, though the Hwy 20 through western Montreal was a slow upgrade of a previous road. Even then, recently they removed a left exit / entrance on the Hwy 40 / 15 N interchange.










There has been some insane events in Montreal and regions by the way. Central Canada got some snow in the past few days. A-13 near the Dorval Airport in Montreal got snow enough that people were stranded on the highway, in the middle of a major city for 13-14 hours (!). A truck carrying hydroflouric acid along Hwy 401 near Gananoque crashed and everyone nearby was evacuated and sent to hospital (!). Several people have died inside snow-blocked cars on roads 

People are comparing it to the previous "storm of the century" in March 1971 which dumped 48 cm of snow over Montreal and caused considerable chaos (and memories...)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/highway-13-drivers-stuck-1.4025860
http://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...y-into-highway-13-fiasco-after-montreal-storm
http://montrealgazette.com/news/scenes-from-the-blizzard-of-march-2017


----------



## Innsertnamehere

^The 400 is largely in first generation condition right now, for example, and a lot of the interchanges are pretty poor. They are disappearing every year now though as MTO upgrades the highway, finally. 

Same thing with the 401 through Durham.

Most of Toronto's highways have been extensively widened since opening, allowing highway engineers to correct previous design mistakes. The ones that haven't, such as the DVP, retain these poor features. The DVP has the only cloverleaf in the city and has some pretty crappy geometry.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ True, but the MTO has some kind of fatwa against cloverleaf interchanges and removed all of them on 400 (mostly just neutering the ramps, and Toronto did the same to most of the DVP)

It's somewhat curious thinking about the situation of cloverleafs in Ontario. They built many of them, poorly designed in general (with several notable exceptionally bad ones, like QEW/Thorold Stone Rd) and then went aggressively getting rid of them. In Quebec, there are several major cloverleaf interchanges but built later, with good geometry and C/D lanes, and they are essentially fine (e.g. those along A-440 in Laval, though the 13/440 backs up in the west/south direction due to the lack of 440 extension). Maybe only one cloverleaf was good, being the QEW / Hurontario until lately, or the 401/62 in Belleville which doesn't have enough traffic to really need any modification...


----------



## sonysnob

I think a lot of the lack of cloverleafs on MTO's roads has to do with the network that has been designed. The MTO has generally fewer, but larger, and busier roads than is typical of Montreal and its suburbs. Because of this, the junctions between the freeways are busier and need to carry traffic volumes far greater than what could be adequately handled by a cloverleaf.

Furthermore, accessibility requirements means that right turn tapers at the end of the off-ramp at the intersection with a surface road have generally fallen out of favour with the MTO, which further reduces the desirability of cloverleafs between two roads where both of them aren't freeways.


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

Indeed, the six ramp parclo widely used in Ontario is generally arranged so only the two left turn onramps are significantly tapered. See, e.g., here on the 407:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@43.8276617,-79.4438688,3649m/data=!3m1!1e3

This design only has two freeflow turns compared to 4-6 in a more traffic-optimized parclo like this in Florida. For accessibility and perhaps also cost reasons, the Ontario-type design is far more common.


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

[duplicate]


----------



## sonysnob

^ By "accessibility" I was referring to the "Accessibility for Ontarian's with Disabilities Act" (AODA) which for whatever reason has been interpreted as not being in favour of direct ramps from freeway off-ramps. The rationale isn't necessarily due to traffic operations but pedestrian safety as outlined in the AODA.


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

Exactly my point - the Ontario-type arrangement is superior for pedestrians as it only has two high speed ramps rather than 4-6.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

the high-speed ramps are still very difficult for pedestrians regardless - especially since MTO refuses to allow pedestrian right of way, yet alone a signalized crossing of some sort across them. Peds are supposed to sit and wait for a clearing in traffic to cross the on ramp, where vehicles are regularly driving at speeds upwards of 80km/h as they speed onto the highway. it is absolutely hostile. A lot could be done to fix the issue, from reducing the radius of the ramp, to placing a raised crossing to slow vehicle speeds, or even just painting a ped crossing, but MTO doesn't seem interested.
Parclos effectively still act as cycling and pedestrian barriers due to their safety issues.


----------



## sonysnob

Innsertnamehere said:


> the high-speed ramps are still very difficult for pedestrians regardless - especially since MTO refuses to allow pedestrian right of way, yet alone a signalized crossing of some sort across them. Peds are supposed to sit and wait for a clearing in traffic to cross the on ramp, where vehicles are regularly driving at speeds upwards of 80km/h as they speed onto the highway. it is absolutely hostile. A lot could be done to fix the issue, from reducing the radius of the ramp, to placing a raised crossing to slow vehicle speeds, or even just painting a ped crossing, but MTO doesn't seem interested.
> Parclos effectively still act as cycling and pedestrian barriers due to their safety issues.


MTO is pretty pragmatic when it comes to pedestrian safety. Of all of the pedestrian collisions that occur within Toronto, very few are located at 400-series expressway ramp terminals.


----------



## Kanadzie

So the lack of right-turn wyes on newer interchanges is AODA? That is crazy 

There are some really inexplicable ones, say at QEW Hamilton to Hwy 25 North. The ramp is a hard right turn when there is plenty of room to just make a wye, and only one right turn lane anyway. Pedestrian should be a non-issue considering the road has no sidewalks and no attractions or sources of pedestrians within 5 km to the south or 15 km to north...


----------



## sonysnob

Kanadzie said:


> So the lack of right-turn wyes on newer interchanges is AODA? That is crazy
> 
> There are some really inexplicable ones, say at QEW Hamilton to Hwy 25 North. The ramp is a hard right turn when there is plenty of room to just make a wye, and only one right turn lane anyway. Pedestrian should be a non-issue considering the road has no sidewalks and no attractions or sources of pedestrians within 5 km to the south or 15 km to north...


That's why the right turn channels get removed during reconstruction as well. Pretty much all of the right turn channels that used to exist along the 427 between the QEW and 401 were removed during the recent reconstruction project.

The City of Toronto has petitioned the MTO to remove the right turn channels at the 400 and Finch Avenue interchange as well. So far the MTO has resisted, as they are concerned that the traffic signals at the ramp terminals won't be able to handle peak traffic volumes and the off-ramps could back up onto the freeway. I'm sure though sooner rather than later Toronto will get its way.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

sonysnob said:


> MTO is pretty pragmatic when it comes to pedestrian safety. Of all of the pedestrian collisions that occur within Toronto, very few are located at 400-series expressway ramp terminals.


Probably because pedestrians avoid MTO interchanges like the plague. As I said, they are a large barrier, most people in the suburbs who have to cross them would probably rather wait for a bus and use that to cross. I've walked across the 407 before, and it's very, very far from a safe, pedestrian friendly feeling environment.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

sonysnob said:


> That's why the right turn channels get removed during reconstruction as well. Pretty much all of the right turn channels that used to exist along the 427 between the QEW and 401 were removed during the recent reconstruction project.
> 
> The City of Toronto has petitioned the MTO to remove the right turn channels at the 400 and Finch Avenue interchange as well. So far the MTO has resisted, as they are concerned that the traffic signals at the ramp terminals won't be able to handle peak traffic volumes and the off-ramps could back up onto the freeway. I'm sure though sooner rather than later Toronto will get its way.


Could that be happening as a part of the Finch LRT project? I know they are blasting a cycling / pedestrian tunnel under the 400 for that project.


----------



## Kanadzie

The pedestrians scared to cross, they need to grow a pair :lol: Ontario drivers are so cautious and generous to pedestrians natively, it shouldn't be a big issue. People would probably stop for you if you went out for a stroll in the middle of the 401 

I think perhaps more importantly is just the lack of desirable places to walk _to _on either side, which is perhaps more acute in the GTA due to the lack of interchanges in dense areas. Even the "urban" highways like the Gardiner, have some pedestrian traffic sure, but there is nothing to walk to on the south side (this is somewhat rapidly changing)...


----------



## sonysnob

Kanadzie said:


> The pedestrians scared to cross, they need to grow a pair :lol: Ontario drivers are so cautious and generous to pedestrians natively, it shouldn't be a big issue. People would probably stop for you if you went out for a stroll in the middle of the 401
> 
> I think perhaps more importantly is just the lack of desirable places to walk _to _on either side, which is perhaps more acute in the GTA due to the lack of interchanges in dense areas. Even the "urban" highways like the Gardiner, have some pedestrian traffic sure, but there is nothing to walk to on the south side (this is somewhat rapidly changing)...


I think for the Finch and 400 intersections... the metal objects that pedestrians are trying to avoid, are both much smaller, and travel at a much higher rate of speed than the areas highway traffic.


----------



## sonysnob

Innsertnamehere said:


> Could that be happening as a part of the Finch LRT project? I know they are blasting a cycling / pedestrian tunnel under the 400 for that project.


The report that I am referencing wasn't in relation to the proposed Finch LRT. It was a report from several years ago.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

sonysnob said:


> The report that I am referencing wasn't in relation to the proposed Finch LRT. It was a report from several years ago.


Yup, the channelized right turns are going to be removed as a part of the LRT project. They also modified it from the original plans to keep 6 lanes on Finch around the 400, which the original Environmental Assessment reduced to 4.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/project...inch_West_201601_Open_House_Map_4_of_5_EN.pdf

^warning, that's a large PDF.

You can see the removed channelized turns and the pedestrian/cycling tunnel getting cut through under the interchange ramps and the freeway on the south side:


----------



## Haljackey

Interesting.

If right turn off-ramps are being taken out, then why are right turn on-ramps staying? Seems like the same pedestrian crossing issue in my opinion.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

likely not as easy to eliminate and MTO probably didn't want to budge on that one. Notice that they are tunneling the pedestrian and cycling path underneath of those ramps though.


----------



## sonysnob

Haljackey said:


> Interesting.
> 
> If right turn off-ramps are being taken out, then why are right turn on-ramps staying? Seems like the same pedestrian crossing issue in my opinion.


In previous documents that I've read (not related to the Finch LRT), the ramp tapers for the on-ramps don't get removed as their removal would negatively impact a vehicles speed using the on-ramp, and would subsequently mean a vehicle entering the freeway would be traveling at a slower speed.


----------



## sonysnob

Video of the Thunder Bay Expressway:


----------



## sonysnob

Some photos of the Trans-Canada Highway in Northern New Brunswick:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/NB/2/NB2_dv_17-75_west_Oct16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/NB/2/NB2_dv_14-75_west_Oct16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/NB/2/NB2_dv_13_west_Oct16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/NB/2/NB2_dv_9_west_Oct16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/NB/2/NB2_dv_0_west_Oct16_24x16.jpg


----------



## italystf

For those interested in remote locations around the world:
The Inuvik-Tuktoyaktuk road, in the Arctic region of Nothwest Territories, will be opened on 15 November 2017. It means it will be possible to drive to the Arctic ocean year-round.

http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=19727.0










Before there was only an ice-road, known for being the set of the TV series 'Ice Road Truckers'.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*George Massey Tunnel replacement, Vancouver, BC*

*George Massey Tunnel replacement construction officially underway*

Transportation and Infrastructure Minister Todd Stone, Delta Mayor Lois E. Jackson and other dignitaries were on hand today to officially kick off construction on the George Massey Tunnel Replacement Project.

Two contracts have been awarded for site preparation work to improve drainage and ground conditions in advance of major project construction. Hall Constructors of Surrey has been awarded an $11.5-million contract for site preparation work south of the tunnel.

A contract valued at $5.8 million has been awarded to B&B Heavy Civil Construction of Surrey for site preparation along Highway 99 between Bridgeport Road and Steveston Highway. The total cost of the George Massey Tunnel Improvement Project is estimated at $3.5 billion.

The process to award the major construction works contract is still underway, and the Province expects to have its preferred proponent chosen by summer 2017. All major approvals are in place for the project to proceed, including the project’s Environmental Assessment Certificate, awarded on Feb. 9, and approval from the Agricultural Land Commission received on Feb. 24.

The existing 60-year-old tunnel does not meet current seismic standards, nor can it be brought up to current standards without risk of damage, which could render the crossing unusable. The new bridge will be built to modern seismic standards, providing a lifeline crossing over the Fraser River in the event of a major earthquake.

After site preparation, major construction will begin later this year with the new bridge opening in 2022. Tunnel decommissioning will follow.​
Full press release: https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2017TRAN0166-001072


----------



## sonysnob

A few photos from last fall from Ye Olde Gardiner Expressway in Toronto:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Toronto/GDR_dv_157-5_west_Sep16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Toronto/GDR_dv_157_west_Sep16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Toronto/GDR_ramp_157_west_1_Sep16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Toronto/GDR_ramp_157_west_2_Sep16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Toronto/GDR_ramp_157_west_3_Sep16_24x16.jpg


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## Kanadzie

^^ AAAR matey 

Its remarkable how beautiful the views from that section of Gardiner are, the DVP too in an exactly opposite way... Toronto is really unique in this respect and its one of the nicer things of the area 
Elevated urban motorways have so many issues especially with maintenance requirements with age (as the Gardiner clearly shows) but being able to drive above-grade and see the city from that perspective is highly pleasing IMO.

It is such shame the Gardiner is in such kind of crappy condition itself... especially that section of the Hamilton-bound around the Humber with that bump that will send you to the moon...


----------



## Innsertnamehere

The city is spending a ridiculous amount of money on it over the next few years to fix it up. They are straight up demolishing the eastern part and realigning it. There an interchange reconfiguration coming too at Kipling. Things like the mega bumb at the Humber will hopefully be fixed too.


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## xzmattzx

I've always loved the views of Toronto from the Gardiner, but driving from Buffalo, Port Colborne, St. Catharines, etc, I've always seen the city from the southwest. I've only ever taken the expressway to Yonge Street. So seeing the city from the other perspective is surprisingly new to me, and very nice!


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## Innsertnamehere

Growing up I remember driving in to the city from the DVP (grew up northeast of Toronto) and counting the big buildings downtown as we took the curve up onto the elevated freeway.. Back when you could easily count the big skyscrapers downtown, because there were only 5 or 6. I used to name them by their colours (Red one, green one, white one, black one).

I was clearly an SSC member from an early age!

Going off topic a bit here, but its easy to forget how much Toronto has grown in the last decade and how much change the condo boom has really had on the city. Even in 2003 or 2004, the city was just completely different. Its crazy how fast it really changed, and continues to change.


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## sonysnob

I am uploading these for the benefit of people who may not have experience of what it can be like to drive in the winter. Southern Ontario was hit by a late season winter snowstorm overnight, causing some pretty treacherous driving conditions for the morning commute:

Although it is not abundantly clear due the snow and ice that has been frozen to the signage, the big yellow sign to the right warns drivers of winter driving hazards on this road:


















There is a thick layer of ice that has frozen to the asphalt... This snow storm was preceded by a heavy rain storm, so road crews weren't able to pre-treat the road with salt before the onslaught of snow:









This light was red:









Vitim #1:


















Victim #2:









There was a third victim in the ditch further along, but I didn't snap a photo









The drive home in the afternoon was far more pleasant:


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## sonysnob

MTO is currently looking for a service provider to design a tolling system for the HOV lanes along the 404 north of Toronto from the 401 northerly to Stouffville Road. This is just a consultant assignment, so actual implementation would be several years down the road (which makes sense as the current HOV lanes don't get anywhere near to Stouffville Road.



> Project Length/Location
> 20km/Highway 404 from Highway 401 to Stouffville Road
> 
> Project Description
> The scope of this TPM assignment is to obtain one (1) engineering service provider to complete the detail design for Managed Lane tolling systems on 20 km of Highway 404. This Assignment includes the implementation of transponder subsystems, Automatic License Plate Recognition (ALPR) camera subsystems, Digital Video Auditing System (DVAS) camera subsystems and High Occupancy Toll (HOT) Message Sign (HMS) subsystems.


MTO plans on delivering this project in two contracts, one at the end of 2018 and and the other at the beginning of 2020


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## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 401*

Ontario issued a RFQ for the expansion of Highway 401 between Mississauga and Milton.

*Widening Highway 401 to Keep People Moving*

Ontario is creating jobs and keeping people moving by widening 18 kilometers of Highway 401 from the Credit River in Mississauga to Regional Road 25 in Milton. 

The Highway 401 Expansion project includes adding HOV lanes in each direction and widening the existing six lane configuration to:

* Twelve lanes from the Credit River to Winston Churchill Boulevard
* Ten lanes from Winston Churchill Boulevard to Highway 407 ETR / Highway 401 interchange
* Twelve lanes from Highway 407 ETR / Highway 401 interchange to James Snow Parkway
* Ten lanes from the James Snow Parkway to Regional Road 25

Quick facts:

* The province has issued a Request for Qualifications to design, build and finance the Highway 401 expansion project—the first step in getting construction underway.
* The project is being delivered under Infrastructure Ontario’s Alternative Financing and Procurement model, which transfers risks associated with design, construction and financing of the project to the private sector.
* The average daily traffic for the Highway 401 in the Peel and Halton Region is approximately 108,000 to 188,000 vehicles per day.​
Full press release: https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2017/04/widening-highway-401-to-keep-people-moving.html


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## Cricket_Fan

So they aren't doing anything about the 407 interchange.. which is going to be a bottleneck in the long term again, just like 427 interchange. Wouldn't a 3 stack interchange solve the problem? I know that the costs will be much higher initially but I don't think we can put a price on congestion on a highway as busy as 401.


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## sonysnob

Cricket_Fan said:


> So they aren't doing anything about the 407 interchange.. which is going to be a bottleneck in the long term again, just like 427 interchange. Wouldn't a 3 stack interchange solve the problem? I know that the costs will be much higher initially but I don't think we can put a price on congestion on a highway as busy as 401.


MTO is saying that the 401's five lane cross-section through the 407 interchange will be sufficient from a traffic capacity perspective for the foreseeable future, but I agree, I don't like the disconnected segments of collector lanes either.

Neither the Winston Churchill overpass, the Ninth Line overpass, or the 407 overpasses were built wide enough to support a core-collector configuration. I don't think the MTO ever envisioned the need for such a wide highway as far west in Mississauga. It's an unfortunate lack of fore site, the 407 bridges were only constructed in the late 1990s.


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## Cricket_Fan

sonysnob said:


> MTO is saying that the 401's five lane cross-section through the 407 interchange will be sufficient from a traffic capacity perspective for the foreseeable future, but I agree, I don't like the disconnected segments of collector lanes either.
> 
> Neither the Winston Churchill overpass, the Ninth Line overpass, or the 407 overpasses were built wide enough to support a core-collector configuration. I don't think the MTO ever envisioned the need for such a wide highway as far west in Mississauga. It's an unfortunate lack of fore site, the 407 bridges were only constructed in the late 1990s.


It's probably sufficient for the next 10-15 years, but by that argument why not make the rest of 401 up to Milton just 10 lanes, as well, since the AADT is similar there as well? With respect to Winston Churchill and 9th line, at least those should be replaced by new bridges that support a collector-express cross section. Unfortunately these half hearted projects are the explanation for the mess that happens at the 427 interchange.


----------



## sonysnob

Cricket_Fan said:


> It's probably sufficient for the next 10-15 years, but by that argument why not make the rest of 401 up to Milton just 10 lanes, as well, since the AADT is similar there as well? With respect to Winston Churchill and 9th line, at least those should be replaced by new bridges that support a collector-express cross section. Unfortunately these half hearted projects are the explanation for the mess that happens at the 427 interchange.


The 407 definitely does siphon off a lot of traffic east of Milton, so I can definitely see the logic in having a narrower cross-section east of the 407 than west of it.

It's worth noting that it's not impossible for the cross-section of the 401 to be revisited again in the future. In 10-15 years (or perhaps, 20-25 years) the bridges that are currently constraining the 401's cross-section will have much less service life remaining than they do now.

Consider for example the Dixon Road and Martin Grove Road underpasses. In the not too distant future, both of those underpasses will need to be replaced. It's not unfathomable, that the cross-section of the 401 will be revisited at that time because of the infrastructure renewal needs.


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## ChrisZwolle

Speaking of the 407, I checked the toll rates and they are insane. Almost 60 dollars to drive it end to end without a transponder (even $ 50+ with a transponder...)

Of course few people will drive the entire length, but the extremely high toll rate of up to $ 0.50 per kilometer will make it less useful as a bypass for Toronto. Everybody is priced to the 401. The 401 traffic is often bad of course, but who is willing to spend almost 60 dollars to bypass a traffic jam?


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## Innsertnamehere

The rates are increasing fast, its $0.42 / km in peak period now, it was $0.35 only two or three years ago.

But yea, its expensive. it keeps it traffic free though. 

Without the transponder its really expensive. $3.90 monthly account fee, $4.10 camera fee, $1.00 highway entry fee, then whatever the milage is. If you are a long distance traveler from outside the area, using the highway to entirely bypass Toronto at rush hour would cost you $59.79 all in. The cheapest travel period is still above $30, and thats a weekend / holiday between 7pm and 11am.

Also, you can't underestimate the level of traffic in Toronto. Coming from the QEW and exiting at the 401 in Oshawa, it could literally take you over 3 hours in the peak period, to travel 100km through the city. With the 407, it cuts that down to an hour.

That said, most people make shorter commute trips on it. Even then, people spend hundreds monthly on the tolls.

A lot of people get 407 coverage as an employment benefit as well.


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Toronto is known for having a notoriously expensive housing market (which is strange considering the available land to develop), and if they use the 407, that's an additional burden that weighs substantially in the cost of living. 

In Europe most of the privatized toll roads charge around $ 0.15 - 0.18 per kilometer (not counting bridges, tunnels, short segments, etc.) That's a lot less than the 407 and people already find that expensive for incidental long-distance trips. $ 60 would almost get me across France on toll roads...


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## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ Toronto is known for having a notoriously expensive housing market (which is strange considering the available land to develop)


Not when you realize the 'Golden Horseshoe' (greenbelt) is a thing:









Bigger and better map (but ruins page lay-out) : https://voiceofniagara.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/greenbelt_map-best1.jpg


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## sonysnob

ChrisZwolle said:


> Speaking of the 407, I checked the toll rates and they are insane. Almost 60 dollars to drive it end to end without a transponder (even $ 50+ with a transponder...)
> 
> Of course few people will drive the entire length, but the extremely high toll rate of up to $ 0.50 per kilometer will make it less useful as a bypass for Toronto. Everybody is priced to the 401. The 401 traffic is often bad of course, but who is willing to spend almost 60 dollars to bypass a traffic jam?


Southern Ontario is definitely not the most affordable place to live...

One of the things that is worth noting however, is that by Canadian standards, Ontario has comparatively lower personal income taxes relative to some of the other neighbouring provinces. In neighbouring Quebec, for example, income tax rates are almost twice as high. I think it's for that reason, that Ontario has adopted the user pay model more than other locations in Canada.


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## Cricket_Fan

sonysnob said:


> The 407 definitely does siphon off a lot of traffic east of Milton, so I can definitely see the logic in having a narrower cross-section east of the 407 than west of it.
> 
> It's worth noting that it's not impossible for the cross-section of the 401 to be revisited again in the future. In 10-15 years (or perhaps, 20-25 years) the bridges that are currently constraining the 401's cross-section will have much less service life remaining than they do now.
> 
> Consider for example the Dixon Road and Martin Grove Road underpasses. In the not too distant future, both of those underpasses will need to be replaced. It's not unfathomable, that the cross-section of the 401 will be revisited at that time because of the infrastructure renewal needs.


The 407 bridges are 20 odd year old now, so even in another 20 years they will stay have around 40 years lifespan remaining, given the design standards of last few decades. But yes, it does become easier to argue for replacing the bridges at that time than today. I think the 10 lane cross section should hold for at least 10-15 years.

Do we know how much this entire widening is going to cost? I'd suspect there are several bridge replacements involved. I would expect it to be 500-700m.


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## sonysnob

Cricket_Fan said:


> The 407 bridges are 20 odd year old now, so even in another 20 years they will stay have around 40 years lifespan remaining, given the design standards of last few decades. But yes, it does become easier to argue for replacing the bridges at that time than today. I think the 10 lane cross section should hold for at least 10-15 years.


Absolutely a fair point.

My point really was that the realities do change as time goes on, and what may not make sense today, may make sense tomorrow, but you're right, even in 20 years, there should still be plenty of service life left in the bridges at the 407 interchange, even if there are rehabilitative costs associated with them at that time.

Just as a side point, depending on whatever happens with GTA West, that could have implications to the 407/401 interchange as well.



Cricket_Fan said:


> Do we know how much this entire widening is going to cost? I'd suspect there are several bridge replacements involved. I would expect it to be 500-700m.


MTO doesn't release cost estimates for projects prior to contract award for fear of influencing the bidding process. The contract value to widen 12km of the 410 in Brampton is $169,000,000, so the idea of this project costing $400,000,000 to $500,000,000 seems reasonable to me, but that's just a ballpark.


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## Innsertnamehere

Yes, Toronto has quite restrictive land use policies designed to prevent sprawl. Combined with high population and economic growth, and you get high prices. Toronto's population and economic growth is on par with many american sunbelt cities, far and above the rustbelt areas that surround the city south of the border.

of course with Toronto being the economic capital of one of the wealthiest nations on earth, it naturally has a ton of money in the city. Your average retail worker couldn't afford the highway, but that bank exec certianly could. median household income is around $75,000. For dual income households working full time, its probably well north of 100k.

Finally, its in CAD too, not USD. That $0.42 pricetag is €0.30, while if it was in USD, it would be €0.40.

The 407 is also the only toll road in the country other than a small stretch in Nova Scotia, which is planned to be eliminated in the next couple of years. You can quite literally drive anywhere in the country for free beyond a few bridge tolls.

anybody know what the Hurontario-Credit river 401 widening cost was? that would probably be a pretty good indicator.

Edit: it cost $81 million for 2.8km, so probably $500-$600 million to do it out to Milton.


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## Balkanada

keokiracer said:


> Not when you realize the 'Golden Horseshoe' (greenbelt) is a thing:


The Golden Horseshoe is separate from the greenbelt. It's the name of the megalopolis that entails the greater Toronto area, Hamilton, the Niagara Region and Oshawa, so think of it like Randstad in the Netherlands. 

It is true that we are running out of room but a combination of greed from the side of real estate developers (since single family detached homes rake in a lot of profit) and many home buyers in Canada not being able to fathom at all living in anything less than a single family detached home, we are _still_ seeing greenfield development for such type of housing. The Greenbelt Plan was supposed to be a lesson learned and having a radical shift towards medium and high density development as little as 5 years ago would've done wonders but nope


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## Kanadzie

^^ it was a radical shift in regulation, but the people don't want that as you say. I wouldn't live in a house with less than four walls either. Why should the people be denied artificially what they want to have?



sonysnob said:


> Southern Ontario is definitely not the most affordable place to live...
> 
> One of the things that is worth noting however, is that by Canadian standards, Ontario has comparatively lower personal income taxes relative to some of the other neighbouring provinces. In neighbouring Quebec, for example, income tax rates are almost twice as high. I think it's for that reason, that Ontario has adopted the user pay model more than other locations in Canada.


For a data point, my income taxes declined by approx 3 500 $ annually when I moved from Quebec to Ontario. But my municipal taxes increased by approx 1 900 $ (on a smaller lot size), and car insurance by 1 500 $ too :nuts: But like we know, muncipalities in Ontario have a lot more responsibility, for major roads for example (Hamilton and Toronto both have municipal freeways, while Montreal used to only maintain a small part of A-10, which they have demolished for stupidity , and Quebec city has no freeways under its authority AFAIK)


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## Innsertnamehere

greenbelt is a wildly popular policy, actually. Something like 85-90% support in the GTA.


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## ChrisZwolle

In the future it will result in leapfrog development (beyond the greenbelt) and longer commuting distances for new residents as the remaining patches within the greenbelt become build-out.

It will also benefit current homeowners as it artificially inflates the housing prices due to scarcity of developable land.


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## Kanadzie

^^ that's most evidently seen in the city of Ottawa, ON, who has even in the same municipality many cross-greenbelt satellites, most notably Kanata.

The greenbelt in Ottawa would be a great routing for a Hwy 417 bypass of the city though 

For the Toronto one though... it is so deep, many km. I don't know what you can do. But the "save farmland" thing is silly considering how much they try to pave over say the Niagara Peninsula... even in 70's creating ghost towns in some sick Milton Keynesian way, e.g. Townsend ON LOL


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## ChrisZwolle

*Tuktoyaktuk Ice Road*

*Closing of the Last Ice Road*

The Hamlet of Tuktoyaktuk and the Government of the Northwest Territories will be celebrating the closing of the last ice road to Tuktoyaktuk on April 13, 2017. The ice road has long served as an important link for residents of Tuktoyaktuk, supporting intercommunity travel and the delivery of essential goods.

Public celebrations are planned in Tuktoyaktuk to honour the many individuals who worked tirelessly over the decades to keep the ice road open. The event will be held from 5:00 PM to 10:00 PM at Kitti Hall and will feature Inuvialuit drum dancing, a community feast, snow sculptures, outdoor snow village, polar dipping (dip your toe in the Arctic Ocean), and more.

The ITH will be Canada’s first road to the Arctic coast, connecting the country from coast-to-coast-to-coast and fulfilling a Canadian vision held for more than fifty years. The highway will support unique tourism opportunities for visitors to the Beaufort Delta.

*Quick Facts*

* The ice road to Tuktoyaktuk has been seasonally constructed for over 40 years
* Building an all-season road has been a major priority for the territorial and federal governments since the 1960s
* Construction of the ITH started in April 2013 and the opening is planned for November 15, 2017
* Residents of Tuktoyaktuk will finally become connected to the public highway system, providing new social, political, and economic opportunities
* The new highway will also allow for more cost-efficient year-round delivery of goods
* The Government of Canada is contributing $200 million toward the ITH project, while the Government of the Northwest Territories is contributing $99 million. The total estimated cost of the project is $299 million​
Full press release: http://www.gov.nt.ca/newsroom/news/closing-last-ice-road


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## sonysnob

Video of Highway 11 in northeastern Ontario approaching New Liskeard:


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## Cricket_Fan

Finally some news about the 401 construction through London and Elgin county.

http://hwy401reconstruction.ca/about-part-b/



> Approximately 28 km of full depth pavement reconstruction separated into 3 construction contracts (i.e., Contract 4, 5a, and 5b)
> Highway 401 from 1.4 km west of Union Road to 0.3 km east of Southminster Bourne (Contract 5a)
> Highway 401 from 0.3 km east of Southminster Bourne to Colonel Talbot Road (Contract 5b)
> Construction start for contract 5a is tentatively scheduled for spring 2018, which includes reconstruction of Highway 401 from Union Road to Southminster Bourne.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Crowchild Trail, Calgary*

*Crowchild Trail upgrades including interchanges, bridge and tunnel get green light from committee*

It's a plan that could ultimately cost more than $1 billion and could take decades to complete.

City council's transportation and transit committee gave the short-, medium- and long-term plan for Crowchild Trail its unanimous seal of approval on Wednesday.

The blueprint for dealing with chronic congestion covers the area from 17th Avenue S.W. up to 24th Avenue N.W.

It envisions several new interchanges, a new bridge across the Bow River and burying Crowchild from Kensington Road to University Drive.​
Full report: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-committee-crowchild-trail-study-approval-1.4076343

This plan basically turns the remaining part of Crowchild Trail into a freeway apparently.


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## isaidso

Innsertnamehere said:


> greenbelt is a wildly popular policy, actually. Something like 85-90% support in the GTA.


Agree and it's not going anywhere. 

What often gets lost in the debate is the massive economic benefit the Green Belt provides to the region. This is the 2nd biggest food processing centre in north America after LA and the Green Belt is an integral part of that equation. It's some of the richest farm land in Canada and supplies a huge amount of fresh produce for our manufacturers, for local consumption, and for export.

Trees helps filter out pollutants and are the world's 'lungs'. Clean air, locally produced produce, and a massive green buffer increase quality of life for all of us. This is a built in competitive advantage. 

It will mean that the days of building single family homes is coming to an end. I'm just puzzled as to why prices keep zooming ahead with the amount of condos Toronto builds every year. 70,000+ went up last year. Was that not enough?


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## Kanadzie

^^ is it really valid? How can mature forest "filter" anything when the total biomass carbon is essentially constant, and the farming in southern Ontario is probably the largest greenhouse gas source of any industry or sector, probably even of volatile organic carbons as well (not sure...)


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## sonysnob

^ The agricultural operations that take place in the Holland Marsh is one of the most significant contributing factors that has led to the decline in health of Lake Simcoe. Agriculture is not appropriately regulated in Ontario -- we still pretend it's mom and pop feeding son and daughter...


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## sonysnob

seems fitting given the day (well, yesterday):


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## Xusein

Kanadzie said:


> Elevated urban motorways have so many issues especially with maintenance requirements with age (as the Gardiner clearly shows) but being able to drive above-grade and see the city from that perspective is highly pleasing IMO.


Driving down the Gardiner downtown reminds me of Coruscant...urban immensity.

Reminds me of the views on the top deck of the Alaskan Way here in Seattle. We're on the process of getting rid of it though, and it's views. Skyline of the city on one side, and mountains and the sound on the other.

I would say that the situation going on here is not an example to emulate however. Total fiasco.


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## ChrisZwolle

isaidso said:


> It will mean that the days of building single family homes is coming to an end. I'm just puzzled as to why prices keep zooming ahead with the amount of condos Toronto builds every year. 70,000+ went up last year. Was that not enough?


The fact that prices keep going up shows that housing continues to be in high demand. If you artificially cap the supply, it will create a society of incumbents and newcomers, or haves and have nots. It artificially inflates the wealth of those already living there while pricing newcomers out of the market or into distant exurbs. Housing is the key to upward mobility. 

According to this website the average sold price in Brampton is $ 781,000, up from $ 552,000 a year ago. How many middle-class families can afford that?


----------



## ericmacm

keokiracer said:


> Not when you realize the 'Golden Horseshoe' (greenbelt) is a thing:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bigger and better map (but ruins page lay-out) : https://voiceofniagara.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/greenbelt_map-best1.jpg


Wow, I didn't even realize that the greenbelt was that big. That will definitely force some dense growth in the non-greenbelt areas. 

It definitely makes highway planning difficult for routes that bypass Toronto, though.


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## sonysnob

^ Ontario's Places to Grow Act that was enacted in 2005 creating the greenbelt mandated that the province create growth plans that were to include transportation planning, and of course highway corridors. The legislation requires the plan to be updated by the province periodically and includes language that requires to consider highway corridors. It's an extra step over just requiring an EA, but it's still possible to construct a new highway corridor through the greenbelt lands.

Here is the current schedule of proposals for the 2013 iteration:
https://www.placestogrow.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=359&Itemid=12#schedule6


----------



## isaidso

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ is it really valid? How can mature forest "filter" anything when the total biomass carbon is essentially constant, and the farming in southern Ontario is probably the largest greenhouse gas source of any industry or sector, probably even of volatile organic carbons as well (not sure...)


Run off into rivers and lakes from farms is a big problem but the Green Belt does improve air quality/store carbon. There's a ton of information on this but this is not the right forum for that.


----------



## sonysnob

Another advanced structural replacement project to support the widening of Highway 400 up to Highway 9:



> 6. Project Length/Location:
> 10 km - Highway 400, Lloydtown-Aurora Interchange and 16th Sideroad Bridge Replacement from 1.6 km north of King Road northerly to 1.9 km north of Lloydtown/Aurora Road
> 
> 
> 7. Project Type (Category):
> 
> Construction Administration
> 
> 
> 8. Specialties Required:
> 
> Construction Administration - High Complexity
> 
> 
> 9. Description of Project:
> Reconstruction of the Highway 400 Lloydtown-Aurora Road interchange and replacement of the underpass. Replacement of the 16th Sideroad Overpass and platform widening of two sections of Highway 400 (total of 4.5 km) to accommodate the future 10-lane cross section and traffic staging. The contract also includes the pavement rehabilitation of two sections of Highway 400 (4.15 km SBL and 4.35 km NBL). Other features included are: a new commuter parking lot, drainage system upgrade, a new stormwater management pond, concrete box culvert extensions and replacements, median Tall Wall barriers, HOV / HOT footings and/or provisions, gabion structure repairs, roadside safety measures, overhead sign structures, noise wall construction, traffic signals, partial illumination, ATMS provisions, landscaping, SAR Bat mitigation measures, etc.
> 
> 
> 10. Assignment approximate start and completion dates:
> Pre-contract engineering phase:	N/A
> Construction administration phase: (tentative timing) August 2017 to October 2020


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## sonysnob

Also, the PIC material for the second consultation of the 400 widening from Highway 89 to Highway 11 through Barrie is online. There have been some refinements to the cross-section since the first PIC:

http://highway400improvements89to11.com/consultation-pic.html
scroll down to the bottom of the page for PIC#2.


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## Kanadzie

^^ ^^ HOT infrastructure


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## sonysnob

Some photos of the construction at the Highway 19 overpass over Highway 401 in Southwestern Ontario. This construction season, the old Highway 19 bridge will be replaced with a new structure. In what is somewhat of an innovative approach, the bridge deck for the new bridge has already pretty much been constructed within the footprint of the interchange. The old bridge will be demolished, and new piers and footings will be installed in just over a month from the demolition date of the old bridge, and then the new bridge deck will be hoisted into place. This technique is knicknamed "GiGo" for "Get in, Get out".

looking west from Highway 19 over the 401. The median lanes of the 401 have been closed in order to construct the new central pier for the new bridge:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_218_west_Apr17_24x16.jpg

two views looking east from the Highway 19 overpass. As is visible in the photo, the new bridge deck is being constructed in the southeastern interchange quadrant:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_218_east_se_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_218_east_bridge_Apr17_24x16.jpg

the old highway 19 bridge:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_structure_218_southeast_Jul14_24x16.jpg


----------



## Cricket_Fan

^^ There are lots of those old era bridges in the London area, much like on the 401 in Eastern Ontario. Highway 19 and Colonel Talbot should be replaced soon, but that still leaves a lot of those bridges. I wonder what their lifespan is, as I can't imagine these bridges having much more time remaining before they need replacing.

P.S. VMP Bridge in London and Highway 40 bridge in Chatham is also in the process of being replaced this season.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ Honestly I'd much rather see expansion of the road through Durham and 6 laning to and thru at least Belleville and leave the existing road eastwards as is, the traffic jams particularly from Belleville-Trenton-Cobourg on long weekends, holidays, summer, etc is just insane (like stop and go for 100 km it's horrible) I've even been in traffic jams from Brockville to Trenton before (admittedly, an accident closed a lane at Trenton)
The AADT doesn't seem so bad (+/- 35 000 vpd) but it must be very "peaky" with expatriate Montreal people and Toronto-Kingston traffic.

It would be interesting if MTO could make better use of ITS systems and "old Hwy 2" for construction / accident events... it seems they put a lot of signs lately but not intelligently to react to the traffic flow. But if you have some apps...


----------



## sonysnob

A few photos of the 401 widening project through Waterloo Region taken earlier in July. These views are from the Speedsville Road overpass.

Looking west towards the Highway 8 interchange:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...2017/07-Jul/401_cl_281_west_c_Jul17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...017/07-Jul/401_cl_281_west_WB_Jul17_24x16.jpg

Looking east towards the Highway 24 interchange:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...017/07-Jul/401_cl_281_east_WB_Jul17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...2017/07-Jul/401_cl_281_east_c_Jul17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...17/07-Jul/401_cl_281_east_c_t_Jul17_24x16.jpg


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## Cricket_Fan

It'll be interesting to see what MTO will do about the HOV lane through this section. They avoided opening the HOV lane in Mississauga until the HOV lane will be long enough (after the current construction in Mississauga completes). Here it'll only be 4 km long.


----------



## sonysnob

Cricket_Fan said:


> It'll be interesting to see what MTO will do about the HOV lane through this section. They avoided opening the HOV lane in Mississauga until the HOV lane will be long enough (after the current construction in Mississauga completes). Here it'll only be 4 km long.


I've been told that the MTO plans to open the HOV lanes through Waterloo as soon as the construction has been finished, despite the short length. (That could of course change between now and the time the contract is finished).


----------



## sonysnob

Some photos of the 407 widening project through Mississauga between the 410 and 427 interchanges. Crews are making good progress, and the additional median lane should be opened to traffic within the next few weeks. These photos were taken the same day as the above K/W photos:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_47_west_WB_Jul17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_47_east_EB_Jul17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_48_west_Jul17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_48_east_WB_Jul17_24x16.jpg


----------



## Haljackey

Geesh I barely recognize the 401 through Kitchener WOW!

That is a huge cross section too, crazy how it will only be 10 lanes when open, looks like there is room for more.

As for 407ETR, looks like they are eating up the remaining median. Anything further will involve bridge replacements + a whole bunch of other costly stuff. But with the amount of $$$ people pay for the highway who knows that might even be possible!


----------



## Cricket_Fan

^^ The lanes through the construction in Waterloo region are quite narrow, and they've almost completely cannibalized the shoulders. Plus 2 of the 10 lanes will be HOV. IIRC the Fountain St and Speedsville Rd bridges have also been only built for a 10 lane cross section. Once the construction is done the 10 lanes will probably cover the entire cross section.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Balgonie, Saskatchewan*

*Saskatchewan's first highway roundabouts officially open*

It's been two years in the making, but Saskatchewan's first highway roundabouts are officially open to the public. 

Along with the roundabouts, the Balgonie overpass has been opened as well.

The overpass is on Highway 46 near Balgonie and leads to the roundabouts.








Full report: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/saskatchewan-first-highway-roundabouts-1.4223493


----------



## Calvin W

ChrisZwolle said:


> *Saskatchewan's first highway roundabouts officially open*
> 
> It's been two years in the making, but Saskatchewan's first highway roundabouts are officially open to the public.
> 
> Along with the roundabouts, the Balgonie overpass has been opened as well.
> 
> The overpass is on Highway 46 near Balgonie and leads to the roundabouts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Full report: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/saskatchewan-first-highway-roundabouts-1.4223493


Not True. Saskatoon had a large traffic circle on 8th Street and Circle Drive (Highway 16) back in the 70's and removed in the 80's. 8th street had a 60kmh speed limit where as Circle drive had a 80kmh limit at the time.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ did it work like a roundabout (entering traffic yielding) though?

Kind of interesting how it appears they preserved the old road leading to the circle as the diamond interchange ramps.

Also interesting how this circle and the ones in Ontario (e.g. QEW / Hwy 20 in Stoney Creek) were completely replaced by interchanges, but older ones in Montreal usually just got a flyover the circle (e.g. in Dorval the old Hwy 2 / 2B (Montreal-Toronto Blvd. and Cote-de-Liesse) turning to modern A-20/A-520)


----------



## Calvin W

It was a full function roundabout. At the time I did my driver training through high school it was mandatory to drive through this traffic circle numerous times to get some experience.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some would argue that a traffic circle is not the same as a standard roundabout though.


----------



## sonysnob

^ Agreed. I woudn't call that design a roundabout. One of they key features of a modern roundabout is the slow speed of the interior circular roadway -- a design feature that the above intersection obviously did not have.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ true but it's broadly similar to the British "roundabout interchanges" in terms of size...


----------



## geogregor

sonysnob said:


> ^ Agreed. I woudn't call that design a roundabout. One of they key features of a modern roundabout is the slow speed of the interior circular roadway -- a design feature that the above intersection obviously did not have.





Kanadzie said:


> ^^ true but it's broadly similar to the British "roundabout interchanges" in terms of size...


Most important feature of the roundabout is the priority for the vehicles already on the roundabout before the ones entering. That's how it works on British "roundabout interchanges" (at least when there are no traffic lights or they are switched off). 
Diameter is less important.


----------



## sotonsi

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ true but it's broadly similar to the British "roundabout interchanges" in terms of size...


It looks as if it was planned to become one with the ovoid shape and wide median (as the carriageways are where the slip roads would be) - cf this one


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ quite possible, there are several such interchanges in the Montreal area (like this one: https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.554597,-73.6232906,363m/data=!3m1!1e3 ), but otherwise very rare in Canada (though, in Western Canada there are several "split diamonds" that use a square shape with four intersections)

I wonder if the generally terrible operations of the Montreal ones, all now fitted with traffic lights, persuaded basically the rest of the country to avoid this design as much as possible :lol:


----------



## geogregor

Kanadzie said:


> I wonder if the generally terrible operations of the Montreal ones, all now fitted with traffic lights, persuaded basically the rest of the country to avoid this design as much as possible :lol:


Such roundabout-junctions work well up to certain traffic level. Above that traffic lights are unavoidable. Adding lights is common practice it the UK and it usually work's fine. Again, up to a point, eventually free flow might be needed in some locations. 

BTW, I will be driving around Quebec in September, how strict is speed enforcement in the province? Also in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia.
I want to eventually drive from Quebec City to Cape Breton and it might be long and boring drive if one can't put the foot down...


----------



## Cricket_Fan

^ I was in Quebec city just few weeks ago, and there are speeding cameras all over Quebec city, even on the highways within the city. 

As for the highways in rural areas, I am also curious about the speeding enforcement in rural areas of Quebec. The official limit is 100 km/h but I was doing 120-124 and I was never pulled over. But almost every Quebec license plate was going 10-15 km/h slower than me. I am curious what is the buffer room in Quebec over the official limit. In Ontario you can go upto 124 and basically never get pulled over, unless you run into a cop who is having a bad day.


----------



## sonysnob

geogregor said:


> Such roundabout-junctions work well up to certain traffic level. Above that traffic lights are unavoidable. Adding lights is common practice it the UK and it usually work's fine. Again, up to a point, eventually free flow might be needed in some locations.
> 
> BTW, I will be driving around Quebec in September, how strict is speed enforcement in the province? Also in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia.
> I want to eventually drive from Quebec City to Cape Breton and it might be long and boring drive if one can't put the foot down...


I can't answer this with any certainty as I don't drive in either province more than a couple of times per year, but generally, I'd plan to drive below 120km/h on the major freeways in Quebec. It seems to me that the average speed on an autoroute is probably closer to 110km/h to 115km/h. That said, I've never been pulled over for speeding in Quebec either.

Rural speed limits on the Trans-Canada in New Brunswick are 110km/h. I don't really have too much experience driving in that province, but I wouldn't expect to do too much more than 120 there either.

Speed cameras are pretty common in construction zones in Quebec.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Weather.com has it at - wait for it - 3 Celsius with rain in Calgary at 6 p.m. their time.
U.S. Weather Channel's been talking for a few days about very cold weather (for September) in places like Montana contrasting with much warmer farther east. Some sort of front, or dip in the jet stream.


----------



## Kanadzie

It's 18h40 here and still about 28 degrees 
We had a guy calling from Prince Rupert, BC today and he was complaining of cold, about 4 grad. We said, bah, it's 30 here 

Calgary is particularly interesting because it gets extremely cold and then very hot literally within a day or two when they get "chinook" winds in the winter. But "deadmonton" is just arctic tundra... even just the latitude is amazing when compared to Ontario and east. But for Europeans is nothing.


----------



## xzmattzx

Highway 407 and Highway 418 construction in Ontario, north and east of Oshawa.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The original Alaska Highway:


----------



## sonysnob

Construction notes related to the replacement of the Victoria Street overpass in advance of Highway 7 New between K/W and Guelph:



> 7. Project Type (Category):
> 
> Construction Administration
> 
> 
> 8. Specialties Required:
> 
> Construction Administration - High Complexity
> 
> 
> 9. Description of Project:
> This project involves the replacement of the Victoria Street North underpass structure, widening of Victoria St from Edna Street to Bruce Street, rehabilitation of the CNR, Wellington and Guelph structures at
> Highway 85, Construction of retaining walls, electrical work and utility relocation.
> 
> 
> 10. Assignment approximate start and completion dates:
> Pre-contract engineering phase:	N/A
> Construction administration phase: (tentative timing)	December 2017 to January 2019


----------



## Haljackey

Some more detail about the 401 expansion between Mississauga and Milton

http://www.infrastructureontario.ca/Hwy-401-Expansion/

*Features*
-12 lane core-collector system from the Credit River to Winston Churchill Boulevard;
-10 lanes from Winston Churchill Boulevard to Highway 407 ETR/ Highway 401 interchange;
-12 lane core-collector system from Highway 407 ETR/ Highway 401 interchange to east of the James Snow Parkway;
-10 lanes from the James Snow Parkway to west of Regional Road 25;
-Median HOV lanes; and
-Support facilities and features - drainage, lighting, signage, ATMS, carpool lots etc.

-----

I'd also assume there would be projects in the works to fill in the widening projects in Kitchener (Hwy 8), Cambridge (Hwy 24), Guelph (Hwy 6) and Milton too. Maybe 8+2 HOV minimum from Hwy 8 to Hwy 407 ETR?


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## Innsertnamehere

^that is the plan. Formally only the parts you mentioned have funding, but I'm sure the rest will fall in place over the next few years.

This 401 widening project is quite large - 11km of new Collector-express lanes and another 7km of 10 lane widening. It will bring the total collector express length on the 401 up to 68km.

MTO in general is planning a lot of widenings in the near future - the 410 and 427 will both finish next year, with the 400 and 404 starting up recently or very soon. The 400 is going to be an equally large program compared to the 401 involving some long distance widenings - it's just a few years behind the 401 project.


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## Kanadzie

Considering Milton's explosive growth it makes sense but I wonder why only 10 lanes from James Snow to Hwy 25. Keeping the original (from original 401 construction) overpass at Hwy 25? Or maybe just figuring most traffic getting off in west Milton...


----------



## Cricket_Fan

^^ James Snow Parkway underpass only appears to support 10 lanes. Besides, based on AADT that should be more than enough for the near future. I do think they need to have 10 lanes starting from highway 8. There are currently no known plans to widen to 10 lanes from Townline Road to Highway 6 north interchange and from highway 6 South to RR 25.

-----

In other news, it appears a tender has gone out for replacement of Elgin Road underpass in London as well as reconstruction of 7 km of roadway. https://www.raqs.merx.com/public/bulletin/contractView.jsf?id=47945001


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## sonysnob

Cricket_Fan said:


> ^^ James Snow Parkway underpass only appears to support 10 lanes. Besides, based on AADT that should be more than enough for the near future. I do think they need to have 10 lanes starting from highway 8. There are currently no known plans to widen to 10 lanes from Townline Road to Highway 6 north interchange and from highway 6 South to RR 25.


Yeah there are. It's just not yet in the five year funding commitment, but there are definitely plans. I'd expect construction to continue pretty much continually through Wellington County once work is done from Hespeler to Townline.

edit:
here is volume one of the TESR that was completed in West Region to widen from Cambridge to the Halton Regional boundary:
http://highway401-hespeler-townline...4/GWP-8-00-00-TESR-Final-Nov-12-12-Part-1.pdf

I'm not sure if any EA work for the complimenting section east from the Wellington County boundary into Milton is online.


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## Cricket_Fan

sonysnob said:


> Yeah there are. It's just not yet in the five year funding commitment, but there are definitely plans. I'd expect construction to continue pretty much continually through Wellington County once work is done from Hespeler to Townline.
> 
> edit:
> here is volume one of the TESR that was completed in West Region to widen from Cambridge to the Halton Regional boundary:
> http://highway401-hespeler-townline...4/GWP-8-00-00-TESR-Final-Nov-12-12-Part-1.pdf
> 
> I'm not sure if any EA work for the complimenting section east from the Wellington County boundary into Milton is online.


Thanks for the link. I remember there used to be a project website for widening 401 from Hespeler to Halton border, but that website disappeared in the last year or so. That's why I thought the plans might have been shelved for now and pushed significantly into the future. I am really hoping by 2025 or so the 401 is widened all the way from Highway 8.


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## sonysnob

The study for "Hespeler to Halton" was split into "Hespeler to Townline", and presumably "Townline to Halton". I am not certain exactly how advanced the design work is for Townline to Halton, but it's not going to construction for a few years, so I'm sure they'll get to it when they need to.


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## Suburbanist

So did US soldiers built the Alaska Highway within Canada?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, it was built by the U.S. Army in 1942, transferred to the Canadian army in 1946 and then to the public in 1948. 

At that time there was no road to northern British Columbia. There wasn't even a road from Prince George to Dawson Creek, it was built as the John Hart Highway in the 1940s to feed to the Alaska Highway. Both are now B.C. Highway 97.


----------



## sonysnob

Photos taken today of the Highway 401 expansion project through Mavis Road in Mississauga:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...2017/09-Sep/401_cl_337_east_c_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...017/09-Sep/401_cl_337_east_EB_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...017/09-Sep/401_cl_340_west_EB_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...017/09-Sep/401_cl_340_east_EB_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...017/09-Sep/401_cl_341_east_EB_Sep17_24x16.jpg


----------



## geogregor

Autoroute 40 between Montreal and Quebec City:

DSC09077 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09078 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09079 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09082 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09085 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09086 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09088 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09090 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

The same from different camera:

IMG_4349 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_4351 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_4360 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

They are fixing some of the old overpasses:

IMG_4362 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_4379 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_4380 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_4361 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_4376 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Arriving to Quebec City:


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ nice pictures

Quebecers always seem to take A-20 between Montreal and Quebec instead of the 40. I'm not sure why aside from historical reasons (A-40 was originally tolled) and the hillier terrain, certainly I much prefer its relatively open traffic flow compared to the often congested or slow 20...

There are some roadgeekery things about this road, for example the 40 is supposed to bypass Trois-Rivieres on the north, and the terrain is reserved, but for now (and past 40 years) has a multiplex south on A-55 and then runs on "planned A-755" through the city. And past Quebec Airport the 40 was supposed to continue straight and there are overpasses at A-573 probably 45 years old now that have never had traffic flow underneath :nuts:


----------



## geogregor

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ nice pictures
> 
> Quebecers always seem to take A-20 between Montreal and Quebec instead of the 40. I'm not sure why aside from historical reasons (A-40 was originally tolled) and the hillier terrain, certainly I much prefer its relatively open traffic flow compared to the often congested or slow 20...


I took the A-20 on the way back and it was much busier. Also flat and boring.




> There are some roadgeekery things about this road, for example the 40 is supposed to bypass Trois-Rivieres on the north, and the terrain is reserved, but for now (and past 40 years) has a multiplex south on A-55 and then runs on "planned A-755" through the city.


Yeah, you can see that junction,leading to A-40 through Trois-Rivieres was designed as exit rather than the main through route.


----------



## Haljackey

Cool pics!

For that 401 widening, interesting to see how far away the collectors are from the express. Grass median between the two with the potential of filling it in with an extra lane + concrete median in the future?


----------



## sonysnob

^ The centre median (the one between the two opposing directions) widens out underneath the McLaughlin Road overpass for a reason that isn't apparent to me. The designers of the highway apparently considered direct ramps from the HOV lanes to McLaughlin Road, but they were ruled out as part of the design. It is obvious that when the bridges were rebuilt for McLaughlin and Mavis 10 or so years ago, a wider 401 cross-section was considered than is currently being built.


----------



## Kanadzie

geogregor said:


> Yeah, you can see that junction,leading to A-40 through Trois-Rivieres was designed as exit rather than the main through route.


Just recently (past 5 years or so) the 40 "west" interchange on the 55 was reconfigured to a trumpet design, it used to be a full half-cloverleaf (two loops) in preparation for the 40 to pass over the city. It seems a waste of money at least for the forseeable future (like 40 years...) to build this road though since the city route seems fine. Quebec, especially in this kind of "central" region had very ambitious plans for motorways! The current setup brings the amusing end result of A-10, 20 and 40 having all overlaps on A-55 for a bit...

Meanwhile in Toronto, typical driving abilities on display 
http://www.cp24.com/news/eight-peop...ating-rollover-on-qew-in-burlington-1.3617374

Beige Toyotas are strangely driven so particularly badly... but I'm impressed two people got ejected from the car and flew over the median into the opposite carriageway and so far, are still alive and didn't get run over by the 120 km/h traffic...


----------



## sonysnob

Pics of the 427 widening work taken the same day as the 401 pics on the previous page (I checked out the 410 too...)









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/Contracts/2014-2016_427/2017/09-Sep/427_cl_15_south_c_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/Contracts/2014-2016_427/2017/09-Sep/427_cl_15_south_SB_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/Contracts/2014-2016_427/2017/09-Sep/427_cl_15_north_c_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/Contracts/2014-2016_427/2017/09-Sep/427_cl_15_north_SB_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/Contracts/2014-2016_427/2017/09-Sep/427_cl_15_north_NB_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/Contracts/2014-2016_427/2017/09-Sep/427_cl_16_south_SB_t_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/Contracts/2014-2016_427/2017/09-Sep/427_cl_16_south_c_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/Contracts/2014-2016_427/2017/09-Sep/427_cl_16_north_SB_Sep17_24x16.jpg


----------



## nick.english.dept

*Vancouver BC Freeway Interchange*

Just came across this impressive pic of a freeway interchange in metro Vancouver. 

Cape Horn Interchange: Trans Canada Freeway, BC Highway Route 7 and Mary Hill Bypass ; Vancouver, BC 








[/url]2014 Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure’s Deputy Minister’s Consulting Engineers Awards by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr[/IMG]


----------



## nick.english.dept

Trans Canada Freeway ; Vancouver, BC 









[/url]Vancouver BC by Ian Threlkeld, on Flickr[/IMG]


----------



## Haljackey

sonysnob said:


> ^ The centre median (the one between the two opposing directions) widens out underneath the McLaughlin Road overpass for a reason that isn't apparent to me. The designers of the highway apparently considered direct ramps from the HOV lanes to McLaughlin Road, but they were ruled out as part of the design. It is obvious that when the bridges were rebuilt for McLaughlin and Mavis 10 or so years ago, a wider 401 cross-section was considered than is currently being built.


Better to over-design than under-design *cough* *cough* 407 and 427 overpasses. 

Maybe the collectors and express are so far apart so it will be easier to build the Credit River bridges perhaps?


----------



## Montrealer

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ nice pictures
> 
> Quebecers always seem to take A-20 between Montreal and Quebec instead of the 40. I'm not sure why aside from historical reasons (A-40 was originally tolled) and the hillier terrain, certainly I much prefer its relatively open traffic flow compared to the often congested or slow 20...


It depends where your departure point / destination is in Montreal. For anyone living in Laval or the North Shore, the A-40 is faster, but for anyone on the Island of Montreal or the South Shore, the A-20 is usually faster. It allows you to bypass the busy streches of the Metropolitain (A-40) and Décarie (A-15).


----------



## sonysnob

Haljackey said:


> Better to over-design than under-design *cough* *cough* 407 and 427 overpasses.
> 
> Maybe the collectors and express are so far apart so it will be easier to build the Credit River bridges perhaps?


Near the Credit River, the express and collector lanes are a pretty standard distance apart. The space between the concrete of the future collector lanes and the existing highway will pretty much be filled up with (asphalt) paved shoulders and a concrete median barrier.

Only the driving lanes are surfaced in concrete, the shoulders will be asphalt, and they haven't really been started yet.


----------



## trece verde

nick.english.dept said:


> Just came across this impressive pic of a freeway interchange in metro Vancouver.
> 
> Cape Horn Interchange: Trans Canada Freeway, BC Highway Route 7 and Mary Hill Bypass ; Vancouver, BC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/url]2014 Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure’s Deputy Minister’s Consulting Engineers Awards by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr[/IMG]


This is just part of this pile of spaghetti - it doesn't show the east half with the Port Mann bridge, Mary Hill Bypass connection, or United Way overpass. For anyone not local, this has actually been built - it's not just a render.


----------



## trece verde

nick.english.dept said:


> Trans Canada Freeway ; Vancouver, BC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/url]Vancouver BC by Ian Threlkeld, on Flickr[/IMG]


Highway 1 westbound, just north of the 1st Ave. interchange. Looking north toward the North Shore mountains - specifically Grouse.


----------



## geogregor

I like how the main freeways are signed on local roads:

DSC09842 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_4516 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

A20, east of Quebec City, towards New Brunswick:

DSC09843 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09844 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09846 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Patrzac na zachod:

DSC09848 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

On the A20:

IMG_4518 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_4519 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## Abhishek901

nick.english.dept said:


> Trans Canada Freeway ; Vancouver, BC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/url]Vancouver BC by Ian Threlkeld, on Flickr[/IMG]


I like the way they have marked lane signage here. It is pretty clear which lane leads where.

In Ontario, exit signages can be confusing. Looking at the signage you cannot know whether the rightmost lane will exit directly or a new exit lane will emerge on the right.

I also hate these signages in Ontario. Look so ugly:










The best I have seen were in South Africa. It can't get any more clear and simple than this:


----------



## Cricket_Fan

^^ My first question would be how consistent is that signage in BC? If it's not consistent on every (or most) exits then it's not much better than Ontario. Once you've lived in Ontario for a while it becomes easier to understand the exits, but I can understand why it might be confusing for someone who doesn't live there.

Essentially, if a single lane exits onto the local roads then you will rarely see any signage, especially through rural areas. A new lane forms just for the exit. If multiple lanes exit then you will see something like this:










You may see that symbol on the overhead signs as well. For freeway-freeway interchanges the signage is always present and clear.


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## Abhishek901

I know about this signage. I meant something else. The same signage is used for 2 different situations:

1. A new lane emerges for exit on the right and the erstwhile rightmost lane splits into two (straight and right exit)

2. No new lane emerges for exit. The rightmost lane exits and the lane second from right splits. This happens when highway loses one lane after an exit. For example, at 400 northbound, the highway loses one lane after Finch exit (6 lanes to 5 lanes). So no new exit lane emerges before Finch exit and the rightmost lane completely exits.

The signage is same for both the situations. In the first situation, if you are driving in the rightmost lane and you intend to continue straight, you don't have to change any lane. Just continue on the left side of the fork. However, in the second situation, you need to move one lane left to avoid exiting. Usually you get to know that when you see thicker lane markings on your left instead of right but it can be difficult to act fast enough with safety.

With the above styles in Vancouver or South Africa you can be sure of the lanes which are heading straight in any situation. You can count your lane's number from the median and know the "future" of your lane. In the Vancouver example here, it is clear that all 3 lanes will continue straight. That means a new exit lane will emerge and you don't have to worry about exiting if you are driving in the rightmost lane.


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## Kanadzie

^^ I don't like the ZA sign - the route numbers without shield look too similar to the destinations, and the through route indication is confusing with the route indication being to the right as opposed to below or above (e.g. German or indeed Nord American style)

I think the new lane exit doesn't get that random "exit/sortie" rectangle.

Ontario's signs though... they somehow manage to use nonstandard and weird elements (like the exit only signs) and also look frankly cheap and ugly.
Why not copy the American or, if avoiding written words is desired, the Quebec style (which is similar enough to be self-evident to Americans...)


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## sonysnob

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ I don't like the ZA sign - the route numbers without shield look too similar to the destinations, and the through route indication is confusing with the route indication being to the right as opposed to below or above (e.g. German or indeed Nord American style)
> 
> I think the new lane exit doesn't get that random "exit/sortie" rectangle.
> 
> Ontario's signs though... they somehow manage to use nonstandard and weird elements (like the exit only signs) and also look frankly cheap and ugly.
> Why not copy the American or, if avoiding written words is desired, the Quebec style (which is similar enough to be self-evident to Americans...)


Quebec signage doesn't indicate option lanes particularly well, that would be a poor signage style to emulate in my opinion. Ontario has used it's current signage legend since the early 90's. At that time it was pretty progressive for north american standards. While I generally prefer the arrow per lane signage that has recently been rolled out in the US MUTCD, it has it's flaws as well, particularly in showing closely spaced interchanges that both feature options lanes.


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## highwayfan1232

xzmattzx said:


> Highway 407 and Highway 418 construction in Ontario, north and east of Oshawa.


Nice photos, I think this part of the extension could be done in 2019.


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## highwayfan1232

sonysnob said:


> Photos taken today of the Highway 401 expansion project through Mavis Road in Mississauga:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...2017/09-Sep/401_cl_337_east_c_Sep17_24x16.jpg
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> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...017/09-Sep/401_cl_337_east_EB_Sep17_24x16.jpg
> 
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> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...017/09-Sep/401_cl_340_west_EB_Sep17_24x16.jpg
> 
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> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...017/09-Sep/401_cl_340_east_EB_Sep17_24x16.jpg
> 
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> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...017/09-Sep/401_cl_341_east_EB_Sep17_24x16.jpg


So when the concrete lanes are done, are they going to shift the main lanes onto those lanes?


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## sonysnob

^ Yes, once the new collector lanes are finished (the concrete lanes) all traffic will be shifted onto them so that the existing lanes can be totally reconstructed to make up the future express lanes.


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## geogregor

Hwy 132 in Quebec, alongside the St Lawrence River.

It is local road, more or less parallel to Autoroute 20: 

DSC09865 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09884 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09885 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09893 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09894 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09896 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09835 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


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## highwayfan1232

sonysnob said:


> Some photos of Phase 2A of the 407 Extension taken last weekend:
> 
> View looking westerly from Winchester Road, just east of the current eastern terminus of the highway. Paving had been started only a few weeks before these photos were taken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_.../07-Jul/407E_cl_128_west_t_Jul30-17_24x16.jpg
> 
> Easterly view from the Winchester Road overpass:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_.../07-Jul/407E_cl_128_east_t_Jul30-17_24x16.jpg
> 
> Westerly view towards Winchester Road from the Langmaid Road overpass
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_.../07-Jul/407E_cl_130_west_t_Jul30-17_24x16.jpg
> 
> Easterly view from Langmaid Road towards Concession 6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...07-Jul/407E_cl_130_east_EB_Jul30-17_24x16.jpg
> 
> Westerly view from Concession Road 6 towards Langmaid Road:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...07-Jul/407E_cl_131_west_EB_Jul30-17_24x16.jpg
> 
> Easterly view from Concession Road 6 towards the Enfield Road interchange:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...17/07-Jul/407E_cl_131_east_Jul30-17_24x16.jpg
> 
> Two views looking westerly from the Solina Road overpass in the direction of the Enfield Road interchange:
> 
> 
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> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...07-Jul/407E_cl_133_west_WB_Jul30-17_24x16.jpg
> 
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> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...-Jul/407E_cl_133_west_EB_t_Jul30-17_24x16.jpg
> 
> Easterly view towards the future 407/418 interchange from the Solina Road overpass:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...07-Jul/407E_cl_133_east_EB_Jul30-17_24x16.jpg


Nice photos. Take some more photos of Highway 407 east of 418 and Highway 418 please.


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## sonysnob

exposed fifty year old concrete on the 401 through the Keele Street interchange:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_362_west_EB_Oct17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_362_east_EBC_Oct17_24x16.jpg


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## geogregor

Two videos from around Quebec City.

First crossing the bridge southbound and heading to A-20 eastbound,





A-20 Eastbound:


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## geogregor

World longest covered bridge and bilingual signs of New Brunswick:

DSC09931 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09933 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09927 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09945 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09953 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09957 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09960 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_4525 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

Interesting, 'allumez vos phares'. In France it would say 'allumez vos feux'.


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## Innsertnamehere

There are many small differences in Quebec french, much like the differences between American and British English.


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## nantro litro

^^
But in New Brunswick they speak Acadian French, which is a bit different from Quebec French


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## sonysnob

Photos of median barrier construction on Autoroute 50 west of Mirabel. The MTQ is constructing a concrete central divider for several kilometes of the Autoroute just west of the airport. Despite the median barrier construction, the highway will remain a single lane in each direction:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/50/A50_medianbarrier1_east_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/50/A50_medianbarrier2_east_Sep16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/50/A50_medianbarrier3_east_Sep17_24x16.jpg


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## Montrealer

sonysnob said:


> Photos of median barrier construction on Autoroute 50 west of Mirabel. The MTQ is constructing a concrete central divider for several kilometes of the Autoroute just west of the airport. Despite the median barrier construction, the highway will remain a single lane in each direction:


Finally! That strech of highway 50 was really dangerous.


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## ChrisZwolle

A current photo of the Coquihalla Highway. Semis spun out all over the highway. This seems to be the first round of significant traffic impact on the Coquihalla this season. It is closed southbound.


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## Haljackey

Canada's first all-season highway to the Arctic Ocean opens next month 






Some people do a longitudinal trip across Canada. Atlantic to Pacific or Pacific to Atlantic.

Perhaps the latitudinal trip might start up? Lake Erie to Arctic Ocean or Arctic to Erie. It's a 82 hour drive from Point Pelee to Inuvik. Add a few more to make it all the way to Tuktoyaktuk
-Trip is shorter if you cut through the USA.

https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/Poin...237afb784!2m2!1d-133.7230178!2d68.3607437!3e0


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## Innsertnamehere

ChrisZwolle said:


> A current photo of the Coquihalla Highway. Semis spun out all over the highway. This seems to be the first round of significant traffic impact on the Coquihalla this season. It is closed southbound.


Drove through a storm like that in a dinky little rental car on the Crowsnest in May. Went from rain to blizzard in about 5 minutes, and the highway was closed behind me. Crazy stuff, had to drive around a jackknifed tractor trailer at one point that was sitting in the middle of the road.


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## highwayfan1232

sonysnob said:


> exposed fifty year old concrete on the 401 through the Keele Street interchange:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_362_west_EB_Oct17_24x16.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_362_east_EBC_Oct17_24x16.jpg


What a time capsule!


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## sonysnob

Scenic mountain roads in eastern Quebec:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/R/234/R234_cl_25-5_west_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/R/234/R234_cl_25-1_west_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/R/234/R234_cl_25_west_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/R/234/R234_cl_23-5_west_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/R/234/R234_cl_0-5_west_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/R/234/R234_cl_0-05_west_Sep17_24x16.jpg


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## geogregor

^^

Great shots, I love rural roads in North America.

Some of my road photos from New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. Much worse quality though...


IMG_4526 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_4529 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_4530 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_4532 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Border between New Brunswick and Nova Scotia:

DSC09967 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09969 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09984 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09986 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


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## geogregor

DSC00072 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_4535 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_4536 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_4537 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Causeway to Cape Breton:

IMG_4555 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_4556 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_4557 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00159 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

I guess it's fairly rare for European travelers to go to the Maritimes.


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## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> I guess it's fairly rare for European travelers to go to the Maritimes.


I think there is fair amount of visitors from Britain and Ireland.


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## Kanadzie

^^ in the area around Lunenberg, NS there were some German couples who had actually bought homes on the water and would summer there 
but considering cost of waterfront property there vs. in the BRD probably the plane tickets are less expensive than the difference in mortgage interest 

and me I think the 4-5 hours north is too far :lol:


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## Innsertnamehere

Nefoundland especially is quite close to Europe. a flight to Dublin takes just as long as a flight to Winnipeg from St Johns, it's about 3,000km.


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## sotonsi

ChrisZwolle said:


> The longest overland route is to Fort-Vieux, Québec and is 9154 kilometers.


I was confused, as surely it would be in Labrador, but Fort-Vieux doubles back around having gone through Labrador. And I make it 9155km


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## ChrisZwolle

Yes there is a little area of far eastern Québec that can only be accessed through Labrador.


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## Kanadzie

^^ Labrador itself is a long-standing territorial dispute between Quebec and Newfoundland. The Privy Council in 1924 declared it Nfld, and it is de-facto such. But in Quebec classrooms you'll always see a map of Quebec showing Labrador as well with only a little dotted line along the border... I think the official position of the Quebec government is that it is theirs but under other administration (surely a kind of _Kanadische Besatzungszone_)

it would have been interesting if the separatists won back in '95 maybe we could have had some Yugoslav-style armed skirmishes between drunk moose :lol:


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## Abhishek901

ChrisZwolle said:


> The opening of the all-season road from Inuvik to Tuktoyaktuk enables the longest road trip within Canada: to south of St. John's, Newfoundland.


Would be hell of a road trip if someone tries it! At least 10 days trip.


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## Burloak

Cricket_Fan said:


> There are plans to close Highway 401 in Milton at the RR25 interchange for 18 hours, on November 18 and 19. They are replacing the RR25 underpass at that interchange and need to demolish the existing underpass. I believe the new underpass is almost done.
> 
> Here are more details: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/trip/construction_reports-central.shtml#Contract2014-2009


I really don't like MTO's descriptions of project. Take this one for example.


> 3 Bridges Rehabilited in Milton: Fifth Line Overpass / Trafalgar Bridge, Oakville Creek and Regional Road 25.


I would call this a bridge replacement, not rehabilitation. Based on the description, I have no idea what is being done to the other 2 bridges.

Now that I see it with spell check, MTO also misspelled "Rehabilitated".


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## Cricket_Fan

Burloak said:


> I really don't like MTO's descriptions of project. Take this one for example.
> 
> I would call this a bridge replacement, not rehabilitation. Based on the description, I have no idea what is being done to the other 2 bridges.
> 
> Now that I see it with spell check, MTO also misspelled "Rehabilitated".


And the fact that they're not replacing Trafalgar bridge with this contract either.

The contract following the above is poorly described as well, since those are also bridge replacements. In general they have poor descriptions for quite a few contracts and sometimes you can figure out what's going on based on information available from elsewhere.


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## Burloak

Cricket_Fan said:


> There are plans to close Highway 401 in Milton at the RR25 interchange for 18 hours, on November 18 and 19. They are replacing the RR25 underpass at that interchange and need to demolish the existing underpass. I believe the new underpass is almost done.
> 
> Here are more details: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/trip/construction_reports-central.shtml#Contract2014-2009


No mention of this, but in other times MTO has opened up the "diamond"* portion of interchange to keep 1 lane open in each direction while the bridge is demolished. In this scenario, hwy. 25 would be completely closed since the single lane of "401" would not have any merging to deal with.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.5281616,-79.9054017,500m/data=!3m1!1e3 

The diamond requiring a bit of construction to connected the WBL off ramp to the WBL on ramp at the NW corner of the interchange.


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## sonysnob

Night vid of the QEW between Hamilton and Mississauga:


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## sonysnob

Quebec Highway 381 -- This north-south between the Saguenay Region and the north shore of the St. Lawrence through some fairly steeply sided mountains. These photos look south:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/R/381/R381_cl_122-25_south_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/R/381/R381_cl_50_south_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/R/381/R381_cl_39-25_south_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/R/381/R381_cl_39_south_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/R/381/R381_cl_38_south_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/R/381/R381_cl_30_south_Sep17_24x16.jpg


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## Kanadzie

^^ I'm amazed you went out there, cool! 
I might be biased but I really like Quebec's route numbering system... it was a mess when it started but now...


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## Haljackey

*Gardiner Expressway, downtown Toronto*

Paving, Lanes Appear as Lower Simcoe Ramp Nears Opening

http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2017/11/paving-lanes-appear-lower-simcoe-ramp-nears-opening


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## sonysnob

The proposed design for the HOV lane extension for the 404 has been uploaded:

http://hwy404widening.ca/consultationupcoming-events/

http://hwy404widening.ca/wp-content...2-00-Hwy-404-HOV_Detail-Design-Plan-Final.pdf


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## Innsertnamehere

Nice. Really looking forward to that, it'll help a lot of evening congestion on that stretch.


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## highwayfan1232

sonysnob said:


> The proposed design for the HOV lane extension for the 404 has been uploaded:
> 
> http://hwy404widening.ca/consultationupcoming-events/
> 
> http://hwy404widening.ca/wp-content...2-00-Hwy-404-HOV_Detail-Design-Plan-Final.pdf


How neat. I like the way they made the diagram.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Tuktoyaktuk*

Thanks to the folks over at AAroads, we know that the new Inuvik - Tuktoyaktuk Highway is not an extension of the Dempster Highway, but is a newly designated route: highway 10.

https://www.justice.gov.nt.ca/en/files/legislation/public-highways/public-highways.r1.pdf

*Inuvik Tuktoyaktuk Highway No. 10 *
That highway, 60 m in width, commencing at its junction with the end of the Navy Road (Inuvik Municipal Boundary);

thence northeasterly to the termination at the
Tuktoyaktuk Municipal Boundary;

being a distance of 133.6 km approximately.​


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## Abhishek901

60 m in width? That's like 16 lanes.


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## sonysnob

Some photos of the eastern end of Phase 2A of the 407 Extension. The highway is starting to look very much like a highway. Work was underway to install the expansion joints at various bridges, final grading work at ditches, landscaping, and sign installation. That said, I think there is at least a week's worth of work remaining (maybe more).

Views looking west and east from Solina Road, just west of the Hwy 418 interchange:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_133_west_EB_Nov29-17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_133_west_WB_Nov29-17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_133_east_EB_Nov29-17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_133_east_WB_Nov29-17_24x16.jpg

Views looking north and then south from Taunton Road along the future 418. The 407 will end temporarily at a loop ramp to Taunton Road. This is a very unusual configuration for the end of a freeway. I am hoping that additional positive guidance is installed for eastbound motorists in advance of what will be a very tight curve at the start of the loop ramp. I expect this terminus will have an elevated collision rate vs. a more typical configuration.









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/418_cl_11_north_c_Nov29-17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/418_cl_11_north_NB_Nov29-17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/418_cl_11_south_SB_Nov29-17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/418_cl_11_south_NB_Nov29-17_24x16.jpg


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## Abhishek901

Are AADT figures for 407 publicly available?


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## Burloak

Abhishek901 said:


> 60 m in width? That's like 16 lanes.


I'm not sure, but 60m is likely the Right-of-Way.

If you assume there are 2-3.75m lanes, 2-2.5m shoulders, that's 12.5m.

Now if the road is on a 5m high embankment, with 3 to 1 side slopes - that adds another 5x3 on either side (30m) and were up at 42.5m. Add some for the ditching, and you might get to 60m. With permafrost and whatever soil they have there, it could be that they need even flatter slopes.


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## sonysnob

Abhishek901 said:


> Are AADT figures for 407 publicly available?


The ETR doesn't publish AADT data. I would imagine the MTO will publish data for the provincial section however.

Some views of the 401/418 interchange. In recent weeks, work has been underway to erect the steel beams overtop of the 401 for the future bridges. There have been regular overnight closures for the last week of November, with more scheduled for early December:

Driving east:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_425-75_east_Nov29-17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_426_east_Nov29-17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_426-25_east_Nov29-17_24x16.jpg

Driving west:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_426-5_west_Nov29-17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_426-25_west_Nov29-17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_426_west_Nov29-17_24x16.jpg


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## sonysnob

highwayfan1232 said:


> So where you get this information from? Also would they convert this to a full interchange?


The information comes from the MTO.

There are no immediate plans to construct the missing ramps between the 403 and QEW. Likely, just based on capacity realities, they probably won't build the ramps until there is a full HOV lane throughout the QEW through Mississauga. A connection between GTA West and the 401/407 interchange in northwestern Mississauga could also potentially be a driving force to complete the missing ramps.


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## highwayfan1232

sonysnob said:


> The information comes from the MTO.
> 
> There are no immediate plans to construct the missing ramps between the 403 and QEW. Likely, just based on capacity realities, they probably won't build the ramps until there is a full HOV lane throughout the QEW through Mississauga. A connection between GTA West and the 401/407 interchange in northwestern Mississauga could also potentially be a driving force to complete the missing ramps.


So would motorists use Ford Drive and Upper Middle road to get from QEW west to 403 East and 403 West to QEW east?


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## Innsertnamehere

So does that include the widening then?


----------



## highwayfan1232

Interestingly in this Google Street View of Highway 401 in Waterloo Region, they installed shaded high mass lighting just like the ones used on the Don Valley Parkway and Gardiner Expressway: https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4031...PSFcQhn1w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0


----------



## sonysnob

Innsertnamehere said:


> So does that include the widening then?


I'm not sure actually. How the project description has been written in the assignment it's not very clear if there is going to be any platform widening or not.

It might become more clear when the MTO advertises the actual contract to go for construction.

*edit* I did some googling:

"Ultimate platform widening will be incorporated, where feasible (including provision for High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes), with the intent that the work is complete until future widening is rquired."

http://news.ourontario.ca/3446924/page/32?n=1


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## sonysnob

I don't drive the QEW all that frequently... but here are some photos from last month through the Oakville 403 interchange. These views look westerly towards Hamilton, and show how the Hamilton-bound lanes have been realigned, and the pre-existing carriageway has been by-passed through the interchange:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_images/QEW_cl_123-1_FEB_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_images/QEW_cl_122-9_FEB_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_images/QEW_cl_122-8_FEB_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_images/QEW_cl_122-7_FEB_Nov17_24x16.jpg


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## Innsertnamehere

It's a pretty bad spot of congestion, I certainly hope the project includes widening it.

The problem is that MTO isn't overly clear on what projects are widenings.. It's the same thing with the rebuild of the 400 from King Road to Highway 7 / Davis Drive. It's supposed to start soon and is a full reconstruction so you figure they would stick the HOV lane on.. but they haven't clarified if that will happen or not.


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## sonysnob

Innsertnamehere said:


> It's a pretty bad spot of congestion, I certainly hope the project includes widening it.


I edited my original post above, and provided a link that clarified the work that is going to occur as part of the project. Basically, the platform of the highway will be widened where it is feasible to do so as part of this construction, however, the actual widening and HOV work will be done later down the road. New lanes are not being added as part of this construction.



Innsertnamehere said:


> The problem is that MTO isn't overly clear on what projects are widenings.. It's the same thing with the rebuild of the 400 from King Road to Highway 7 / Davis Drive. It's supposed to start soon and is a full reconstruction so you figure they would stick the HOV lane on.. but they haven't clarified if that will happen or not.


The MTO is pretty terrible at disceminating project information. Their website is pretty useless.

I do know about the Highway 400 widening though.

The interchange work at Highway 9 is going to be finished next year. Through the Highway 9 interchange, the platform of the highway will be widened, kind of like it was done through the King Road interchange earlier this decade, but there won't be any additional lanes striped through the interchange.

Work started this fall on a similar project to replace and reconfigure the Lloydtown-Aurora Road interchange. Not too much has happened there yet, but I noticed that the lanes had been restriped orange on a trip down the 400 in late October. As part of this project, the platform of the 400 will also be widened through the interchange (and will tie directly into the platform widening at Highway 9), but the same thing, no new lanes will be opened. As part of this project, the underpass that Sideroad 16 uses to pass under the 400 will also be extended for future widening.

A couple of years from now, a final contract will be called which will widen the platform of the highway between King and Lloytown-Aurora Roads. It is as part of this contract that the actual HOV lanes will be opened. I don't know the exact timing of when this contract will start, but I'd expect it in the next 1-3 years or so.

*edit* added diagram to try to show construction staging -- forgive my drawing skills *


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## Cricket_Fan

highwayfan1232 said:


> Interestingly in this Google Street View of Highway 401 in Waterloo Region, they installed shaded high mass lighting just like the ones used on the Don Valley Parkway and Gardiner Expressway: https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4031...PSFcQhn1w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0


They are doing that for the entire length of the widening between highway 8 and highway 24, and I think for the next phase as well between highway 24 and Townline road.


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## Cricket_Fan

Is anyone in the know about when the contract will be tendered for the 401 widening between Mississauga and Milton? They announced that project several months ago but there's no sign of a contract.


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## sonysnob

Cricket_Fan said:


> Is anyone in the know about when the contract will be tendered for the 401 widening between Mississauga and Milton? They announced that project several months ago but there's no sign of a contract.


It's going to be a design build. Anticipated construction start is Spring 2019 at the earliest.


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## sonysnob

Continuing my photo dump... I took these photos last week on my way back from a work trip to Essex County. I wasn't going to share them, but changed my mind since there was some discussion about this project a few posts ago.

The 401 widening project through Cambridge. Photos start from west to east, starting with the recently realigned on-ramp to the 401 from Highway 8.









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...11-Nov/401_dv_278-9_east_ramp_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...017/11-Nov/401_cl_279_west_EB_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...2017/11-Nov/401_cl_279_west_C_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...2017/11-Nov/401_cl_279_east_C_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...017/11-Nov/401_cl_279_east_EB_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...2017/11-Nov/401_cl_281_west_C_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...7/11-Nov/401_cl_281_west_WB_t_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...2017/11-Nov/401_cl_281_east_C_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...017/11-Nov/401_cl_281_east_EB_Nov17_24x16.jpg


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## highwayfan1232

sonysnob said:


> Continuing my photo dump... I took these photos last week on my way back from a work trip to Essex County. I wasn't going to share them, but changed my mind since there was some discussion about this project a few posts ago.
> 
> The 401 widening project through Cambridge. Photos start from west to east, starting with the recently realigned on-ramp to the 401 from Highway 8.


Those lights are like the ones used on the Don valley parkway and the Gardiner.


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## sonysnob

^ That's right, they have the same (or at least very similar) shielding as the ones used on both the Parkway and the Gardiner.


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## Burloak

highwayfan1232 said:


> So where you get this information from? Also would they convert this to a full interchange?


If you look at Google Earth, you can see that a new bridge was already built to the West (although when driving you don't realize that the road is in a N-S direction at this point and likely think it it to the north). https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4951007,-79.6747904,578m/data=!3m1!1e3 


Now, the 403 to QEW WBL is on the new bridge (farthest west).
The QEW WBL are on the bridge that was previously carrying 403 to QEW WBL (i.e. the 2nd bridge from left).
The 3rd bridge from the west is now empty. This will be replaced.
The 4th bridge from the west will also be replaced, with its traffic placed onto the 3rd bridge while this is done.
The 5th bridge from the west (the east-most one) will be rehabbed.
At the end of the Contract, Each QEW bridge will still carry 3 lanes in each direction. Plus, there is one extra bridge.
Eventually, each QEW bridge will carry 3+ HOV. The second bridge from west will carry some sort of mini-collector lanes.


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## Kanadzie

highwayfan1232 said:


> So would motorists use Ford Drive and Upper Middle road to get from QEW west to 403 East and 403 West to QEW east?


I would just use Winston Churchill Blvd or Erin Mills Pkwy considering those roads move pretty good (especially usually faster than the northbound 403 section) and it's almost always going to be shorter distance...


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## Cricket_Fan

sonysnob said:


> Continuing my photo dump... I took these photos last week on my way back from a work trip to Essex County. I wasn't going to share them, but changed my mind since there was some discussion about this project a few posts ago.
> 
> The 401 widening project through Cambridge. Photos start from west to east, starting with the recently realigned on-ramp to the 401 from Highway 8.


Interesting to see that both the eastbound and westbound traffic are using future eastbound lanes. I use this stretch quite often and westbound traffic is using future eastbound lanes for almost the entirety of the project length. I wonder what they're doing there, they had just constructed the westbound lanes last year.


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## sonysnob

^ The vertical alignment of the highway is changing west of the Speed River. It must have just been easier to stage the construction this way.


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## sonysnob

Rendering of a future section of four-lane TCH in BC:


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## smokiboy

I've been driving the stretch of QEW between 427 and Mississauga Road most days for the last six months or so, and this section is almost always very heavy. Bumper to bumper during rush hour is a given, but even in the 'off hours' (good one) it is very heavy. Unfortunately there really is no space to widen this section without some serious expropriation and tearing down of support walls, and major bridge expansion.

Needless to say I would love to see a wider QEW. Cheers boys!


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## geogregor

Driving Trans Canada Hwy from New Brunswick to Montreal:

IMG_5068 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_5069 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_5070 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_5073 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_5076 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Entering Quebec:

IMG_5079 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_5080 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


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## geogregor

IMG_5081 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_5082 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_5083 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_5084 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

I love this name: Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha! 

IMG_5086 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_5087 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Hwy 185. Last missing bit of freeway between Halifax and Toronto, about 40 km long. From what I understand construction here should start fairly soon.

IMG_5091 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Back to Autoroute 85:

IMG_5093 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


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## geogregor

IMG_5092 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_5094 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_5095 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_5107 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_5108 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_5109 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

And suddenly this :nuts:

DSC01614 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01615 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01616 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01617 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

I think I have seen something similar somewhere in Montana, in the absolute middle of nowhere, but here it is not far from Montreal, on the main route from Quebec City.


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## ChrisZwolle

There is also a railroad crossing on the Regina Ring Road (which is a freeway at that point).


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## Cricket_Fan

sonysnob said:


> AADT is a very imperfect measure for determining the warrants for freeway widening. Out of curiousity (boredum?) I went through the traffic volumes and had a look at when various sections of highway were widened from four to six lanes in Ontario:
> 
> Hwy 401 - London to Woodstock, mid 1990s:
> traffic volumes ranged between 40,000 - 45,000;
> 
> Hwy 401 - Woodstock to Kitchener, around 2010:
> around 45,000;
> 
> Hwy 401 - Kitchener to Milton, late 1980s to early 1990s:
> Around 55,000-60,000 (though I'm not as certain exactly what years the contracts were finished, so that could vary a bit... traffic on the 401 grew very quickly year over year at that time)
> 
> Hwy 401 - Newcastle to Port Hope, mid 2000s:
> traffic volumes ranged between 40,000 - 45,000;
> 
> Hwy 400, Vaughan to Barrie, early 1970s:
> traffic volumes in 1988 were about 40,000 (so it was widened with considerably lower AADT volumes)
> 
> QEW, Hamilton to Saint Catherines, mid 1990s:
> traffic volumes ranged at about 55,000
> 
> QEW through St. Catherines, about 2010:
> traffic volumes were north of 70,000
> 
> Generally speaking it's a fair assumption to assume that highways through urban areas are going to be tolerated as more congested than those in rural areas. AADT is also a poor overall metric as it doesn't consider things as truck volume, hourly traffic distribution, or topography, ect. all which can have a significant effect on traffic congestion.
> 
> I used this to ballpark the ranges:
> http://www.raqsa.mto.gov.on.ca/techpubs/TrafficVolumes.nsf/fa027808647879788525708a004b5df8/88c66a2279555c798525788d0048cca4/$FILE/Provincial%20Highways%20traffic%20Volumes%201988-2016.pdf


I guess the question for me is what other data do we need before we widen that section? AADT is not the only metric to consider, agreed, it's only meant to be one metric. Other metrics, such as truck traffic, work in favour of widening that stretch as well. It goes through rural areas as well, which again works in the favour of widening that stretch.


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## zaphod

Is train traffic on that line very frequent?

I can't imagine a busy railroad having a grade crossing on a freeway, and at the same time I was under the impression that most of the railways in Atlantic Canada were in a moribund state.

Maybe you just got (un)lucky seeing a train there?


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## geogregor

zaphod said:


> Is train traffic on that line very frequent?
> 
> I can't imagine a busy railroad having a grade crossing on a freeway, and at the same time I was under the impression that most of the railways in Atlantic Canada were in a moribund state.
> 
> Maybe you just got (un)lucky seeing a train there?


I'm sure it is rare and I must have been lucky to see one. :cheers:

Still, it is a bit surprising to see level crossing on a major freeway, even if the railway in question is some rarely used branch line.


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## Nikolaj

ChrisZwolle said:


> There is also a railroad crossing on the Regina Ring Road (which is a freeway at that point).


And 2 on the Trans-Canada Highway north and north-east of Moncton, New Brunswick - and they are quite bumpy to pass 

https://www.google.dk/maps/@46.1261741,-64.6930883,338m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=da

https://www.google.dk/maps/@46.1275589,-64.7624032,477m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=da


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## Kanadzie

geogregor said:


> I think I have seen something similar somewhere in Montana, in the absolute middle of nowhere, but here it is not far from Montreal, on the main route from Quebec City.


I'm amazed you got stuck at St Hyacinthe level crossing ! 
I've driven there dozens of times and never seen anything, it's quite a low volume crossing (for trains...)


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## Montrealer

zaphod said:


> Is train traffic on that line very frequent?
> 
> I can't imagine a busy railroad having a grade crossing on a freeway, and at the same time I was under the impression that most of the railways in Atlantic Canada were in a moribund state.
> 
> Maybe you just got (un)lucky seeing a train there?


Can't find a source, but I have read somewhere that there is one single train per week that crosses autoroute 20 at this location, to serve some industries.


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## Innsertnamehere

usually when these rail lines cross freeways it is just a small industrial siding that services only 1 or 2 customers.


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## ssiguy2

BC has very busy roads that are only 2 lanes in each direction and most are not even up to freeway standards and BC spends very little on it's roads. BC has by far the worst highway system in the country considering it's size and Vancouver's highway are truly horrible. We can only dream about having Ontario or Quebec highways.


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## ChrisZwolle

Vancouver has the worst traffic in Canada by a considerable margin. But I believe that these travel time indexes actually underestimate congestion and travel times in cities with few or no freeways. 

TTIs are based on the difference between free-flow and typical congested traffic. On a freeway system, that means 100 vs 30 km/h for example. But in a city that has no or few freeways, the delay is smaller because free-flow conditions have much lower speeds. I think London (UK) is underestimated for this reason. And Vancouver too.


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## sotonsi

^^ But but but building freeways creates congestion. Vancouver should be the best city here as it has the fewest traffic-creating freeways! 


While I totally agree with the methodology problem that you point out, that London and Vancouver are noticeably bad even with it suggests that it works for getting the message across.


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## Innsertnamehere

london (uk) has a a better freeway system than London (ON), if that counts for anything. Mind you one is a city of 500k, another is a city of 8 million.. But london (ON)'s lack of highway infrastructure is pretty bad. Kitchener Waterloo is the same population and it has 4 different highways varying from 4 to 10 lanes, and now an LRT system.. London has the 401 cutting through at the far south end of the city and they are fiercely debating whether or not to install some freaking bus lanes..

Vancouver is also one of only 2 cities on the continent that has an auto commuting modal share below 50% IIRC.. New York is the only other one. Active transport and transit commuting has skyrocketed in the city over the last decade. So sure, the traffic is bad, but the majority of residents don't have to deal with it on a daily basis.


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## ChrisZwolle

London, Ontario indeed doesn't have the best road network in Canada. Although in case of London, ON, there is a decent network of 4 lane urban arterials in a grid. London, UK has a very organic road network with limited hierarchy and capacity fluctuates a lot but is generally severely underdeveloped. 

To illustrate the poor road network of London, UK. Here's what should be a 35 kilometer trip at 5 p.m. on a Sunday. It's faster to take a 100 kilometer trip via M25 than to drive a direct route, the average speed is under 20 km/h. And this is _Sunday_ traffic.


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## Haljackey

London, ON could certainly benefit from a ring road but since there are no surrounding cities it really wouldn't be used that much. There are no decently sized bedroom communities nearby. (St. Thomas is too far away in my mind)

I travel to and from downtown every day for work by car and I have a ton of options for alternate routes if my desired commute route is backed up. Decent grid network.
-I live in the south end however. If you're in the north end you got to put up with at-grade rail crossings which is a major source of delays. I don't know why so many decide to live in the north end :nuts:. Takes forever to get anywhere, and you got to go through the whole city to reach the 401.
-Transit service is so bad that I'd only take the bus if it was a last resort. We really need BRT/LRT built to help transit out.

Here's a map of road deficiencies in London from SkyscraperPage:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/e...ll=42.971763673628786,-81.24119281768799&z=13

Thread:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=8064053

If there was unlimited money and political will, these issues should be addressed and the CP rail line should be torn up and replaced with either a busway / LRT or a tight crosstown highway. Upgrading the Veterans Memorial Parkway to a freeway and building a better link via Highway 7 to Kitchener should also be big priorities.


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## sonysnob

Innsertnamehere said:


> Vancouver is also one of only 2 cities on the continent that has an auto commuting modal share below 50% IIRC.. New York is the only other one. Active transport and transit commuting has skyrocketed in the city over the last decade. So sure, the traffic is bad, but the *majority of residents don't have to deal with it on a daily basis*.


That isn't exactly true. Traveling to work either as a driver or a passenger is still constitutes the largest modal share of the commuting trips made (by a fair margin). And that stat is only true within the City of Vancouver proper. According to StatsCan's 2016 census data, the City of Vancouver's population only makes up about 25% of the overall regional population. Regionally, auto trips are far and away the dominant mode of transportation. Also of note, is that the average persons per household is lower within the City of Vancouver compared to the larger region, a stat that I believe plays a not-insignificant role in commuting habits.


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## Cricket_Fan

Innsertnamehere said:


> london (uk) has a a better freeway system than London (ON), if that counts for anything. Mind you one is a city of 500k, another is a city of 8 million.. But london (ON)'s lack of highway infrastructure is pretty bad. Kitchener Waterloo is the same population and it has 4 different highways varying from 4 to 10 lanes, and now an LRT system.. London has the 401 cutting through at the far south end of the city and they are fiercely debating whether or not to install some freaking bus lanes..
> 
> Vancouver is also one of only 2 cities on the continent that has an auto commuting modal share below 50% IIRC.. New York is the only other one. Active transport and transit commuting has skyrocketed in the city over the last decade. So sure, the traffic is bad, but the majority of residents don't have to deal with it on a daily basis.


The commuting patterns in KW are very different from London, ON though. KW is a tech hub and has people commuting from Cambridge, Guelph, the surrounding smaller towns (e.g. North Dumfries, Ayr, Wellsey, Woolwich, and some more), and as far as Milton, Mississauga, Hamilton, Oakville, and Toronto. There are a lot of non business related trips as well between those areas. Highway 8 and highway 7 AADT through the area is in the neighbourhood of 100,000. Just notice the difference in traffic on the 401 before and after highway 8. That really gives you an idea of how busy the highways in Waterloo region get. I don't think same could be said about London though. I am not saying it's not worthy of a freeway - I think a proper north-southway freeway connecting to the 401 should be there.


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## Innsertnamehere

Yes, KWs arteria lnetwork is also built more around the freeway system than Londons. London has an efficient arterial network as an alternative compared to KWs maze of side roads.

And yes, metro vancouver's auto modal share is around 70%, but metro Vancouver also has a bit more robust of a freeway network. The city of Vancouver doesn't have a freeway network, and the city of Vancouver is where less than 50% drive.


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## Innsertnamehere

MTO regularly uses prefabricated concrete as well, they seem to mix it up a lot. I think they often end up coating them after installation, as well.


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## sonysnob

ChrisZwolle said:


> Would there be a specific reason to use steel beams instead of prefabricated concrete beams like they use in Texas?


I'm guessing they used steel in this case due to the span length. Prefabricated concrete beams would have required more piers. Prefabricated concrete beams generally cost less than steel beams, so there is a general preference to use concrete where it makes sense.


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## Penn's Woods

Remind some of us where the 418 is?


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## sonysnob

Penn's Woods said:


> Remind some of us where the 418 is?


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## highwayfan1232

sonysnob said:


> Some new photos of the 401/418 interchange. Most of the structural steel seems to be up now, though there were still signs advertising of night closures later this week:
> 
> Looking east:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_425-95_east_Feb18_24x16.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_426_east_Feb18_24x16.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_426-5_east_Feb18_24x16.jpg
> 
> Looking west:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_426-5_west_Feb18_24x16.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_426-25_west_Feb18_24x16.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_426_west_Feb18_24x16.jpg


I've seen this when we were on our trip to Ottawa for Christmas. Also don't forget to get some photos of the 407 east of Harmony.


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## Burloak

ChrisZwolle said:


> Would there be a specific reason to use steel beams instead of prefabricated concrete beams like they use in Texas?


For curved bridges, the prefabricated concrete beams* tend to look clunky and are generally frowned upon. For the previous 407, the contract was not written perfectly and they were allowed.
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.8640...4!1sE419olow6rTqThpd0hBQcw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 

For bridges over roadways, MTO does not use steel I girders since debris (sand, salt, bird droppings) can accumulate on the bottom flange and rust. Box girders are used (as shown in the above photos) since there is no projecting bottom flange. Again, on the previous 407, this was not written into the contract, and a couple were built. MTO was able to force them to coat (paint) these bridges (they were done in shop and not in field), but of course had to pay extra.
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.8652...4!1sJOLRrIfXdokuhJiSkRlsWg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 

* - For MTO AASHTO (American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials) prestressed concrete girders were used from the 1960's to the mid 1970's. From the late 1970's to about 2010 (to 2015), MTO used CPCI (Canadian Prestressed Concrete Institute) girders, which were essentially the same shape as the ASHTO girders, just metric. Around the turn of the century, with higher strength concrete and larger prestressing strands, the girder shape was optimized to take advantage of the advancements in these technologies. New England Bulb Tee (NEBT) girders and Nebraska University (NU) girders were developed. In Canada, Alberta started with the NU girders, and then they were first used in Ontario for the Herb Gray Parkway (Windsor). I think NEBT is used in the northeast States.


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## Burloak

sonysnob said:


> I'm guessing they used steel in this case due to the span length. Prefabricated concrete beams would have required more piers. Prefabricated concrete beams generally cost less than steel beams, so there is a general preference to use concrete where it makes sense.


I'm not sure the exact span length, but it looks like it could have been done with NU girders. The depth of the concrete girder would have been about a foot deeper, meaning the grades of the ramps would have been a touch steeper - but still doable. My guess is MTO force these to be steel box for appearance, even though concrete would have been cheaper.


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## Burloak

Innsertnamehere said:


> MTO regularly uses prefabricated concrete as well, they seem to mix it up a lot. I think they often end up coating them after installation, as well.


MTO does not coat the bridges anymore (see above post for exception). The policy is to coat the ends of the girders, where moisture might accumulate, and were salt water would leak through to - if an expansion joint should leak. Coating is always done in shop - although some touch-up in field is often required.

Due to corrosion concerns, MTO has tried a new type of semi-stainless steel (grade ASTM A1010). This was used for Speed River (on hwy. 401 near Kitchener) and Hwy. 19 (hwy. 401 near London). This technology came from Oregon. The old stuff, which is still in general use and is shown in the above photos, is weathering steel - which was first called CORTEN steel as a proprietary product from US Steel. MTO has found some problems with this in high moisture areas (over stagnant water with little clearance) and in high polution areas (i.e. over high truck traffic areas). 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weathering_steel

https://encrypted.google.com/url?sa...bs-final.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2fGD8UewBQ1G8D-4Yg6mJA


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## sonysnob

Burloak said:


> For curved bridges, the prefabricated concrete beams* tend to look clunky and are generally frowned upon. For the previous 407, the contract was not written perfectly and they were allowed.
> https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.86402...7i13312!8i6656


The geometry of this ramp kind of sucks too. It's still posted at 80, but the broken back curve isn't desirable, particularly considering that the ramp has settled approaching the bridge abutments.

Personally, I still much prefer the look of cast-in-place concrete girders. I'm holding out hope that the Hwy 7 new bridges in Kitchener and the new Highway 6 interchanges near Morriston will be built this way.



Burloak said:


> For bridges over roadways, MTO does not use steel I girders since debris (sand, salt, bird droppings) can accumulate on the bottom flange and rust. Box girders are used (as shown in the above photos) since there is no projecting bottom flange. Again, on the previous 407, this was not written into the contract, and a couple were built. MTO was able to force them to coat (paint) these bridges (they were done in shop and not in field), but of course had to pay extra.
> https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.8652...4!1sJOLRrIfXdokuhJiSkRlsWg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


The Anderson Road bridge over the 401 uses uncoated steel i-beams, as does the structure that carries the ramp from the 412 to the westbound lanes of the 401:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_...g/407E_structure_121_under_nw_Aug15_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_..._structure_116_n-w-ramp_under_Aug15_24x16.jpg

I'd always been told that steel girders were less rigid and more prone to structural damage in overheight vehicle strikes, compared to box girders, and that's why they weren't preferable.


----------



## sonysnob

Burloak said:


> For bridges over roadways, MTO does not use steel I girders since debris (sand, salt, bird droppings) can accumulate on the bottom flange and rust. Box girders are used (as shown in the above photos) since there is no projecting bottom flange. Again, on the previous 407, this was not written into the contract, and a couple were built. MTO was able to force them to coat (paint) these bridges (they were done in shop and not in field), but of course had to pay extra.
> https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.8652...4!1sJOLRrIfXdokuhJiSkRlsWg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


Also, MTO does use steel I-beam bridges.

Hwy 69/400 over Portage Lake in Parry Sound, constructed ~2008:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/400_cl_233_north_Aug08_24x16.jpg

Hwy 69 over Murdock River south of Estaire, constructed ~2014:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_structure_MurdockRiver_SB_east_Sep15_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_cl_S-MurdockRiver_north_Jun14_24x16.jpg

Also, on Highway 11 south of Sundridge, constructed ~2012:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_structure_266_north_Mar12_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_cl_265_north_t_Mar12_24x16.jpg

401 over the Humber River, various contracts 2000s-2010s:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_.../08-Aug/401_cl_357_west_Aug13_ramp2_24x16.jpg

(I'll stop there because I think I've already killed the horse).

These were all conventional MTO tendered projects.


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## Burloak

sonysnob said:


> Personally, I still much prefer the look of cast-in-place concrete girders. I'm holding out hope that the Hwy 7 new bridges in Kitchener and the new Highway 6 interchanges near Morriston will be built this way.


The typical underpasses along highway 7 new will be concrete. The grand river crossing will be concrete post-tensioned with balanced cantilever main span. I'm not sure about the upper level bridges.
I thought 401 and 6 New at Morriston will be steel.



sonysnob said:


> The Anderson Road bridge over the 401 uses uncoated steel i-beams, as does the structure that carries the ramp from the 412 to the westbound lanes of the 401:


I think you mean 407. I recall there were some bridges in the package that could not be coated due to schedule implications. The original design handed to the Contractor did not have steel I girders, but the Contractor was able to change the design. By the time MTO figured out that the design had changed, they could not fight the structure type, nor the ability to coat, due to schedule. My guess is MTO will go out and wash the bottom flanges periodically (in spring). The only way to coat the bridge in place is to close or shift lanes below.



sonysnob said:


> I'd always been told that steel girders were less rigid and more prone to structural damage in overheight vehicle strikes, compared to box girders, and that's why they weren't preferable.


This is true - but steel I bridges have diaphragms (connecting adjacent girders together) every 8m or less, so they can take a bit of a hit. I can't recall a steel girder being demolished (not scraped or twisted), but I know of several concrete ones. I'd say corrosion is a bigger factor. The ones that are nicked, twisted, or slightly damaged can still be repaired - although it is a bit of a pain.


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## Burloak

sonysnob said:


> Also, MTO does use steel I-beam bridges.
> 
> (I'll stop there because I think I've already killed the horse).
> 
> These were all conventional MTO tendered projects.


I believe those are all water crossings. I said over roadways.

There are a couple of other exceptions, such as highway 11 over Magnetewan River (whcih also goes over highway 520). Most of the bridge is over water, and the roadway is slower speed so the salt splash upwards may be a little less.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.6168...134.22734&pitch=0&thumbfov=100!7i13312!8i6656


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## sonysnob

Burloak said:


> The typical underpasses along highway 7 new will be concrete. The grand river crossing will be concrete post-tensioned with balanced cantilever main span. I'm not sure about the upper level bridges.
> I thought 401 and 6 New at Morriston will be steel.


I don't think the Hwy 6 bridges have been designed yet. I think they have a preliminary design, but not a detailed design. I think the Concession Road 7 bridge has been designed, but it's being tendered as an advanced contract, and will be done before the rest of the Morriston project. But to be fair, I can't exactly recall off-hand what the project schedule is for all of these projects.

I suspect they will be steel too.





Burloak said:


> I think you mean 407. I recall there were some bridges in the package that could not be coated due to schedule implications. The original design handed to the Contractor did not have steel I girders, but the Contractor was able to change the design. By the time MTO figured out that the design had changed, they could not fight the structure type, nor the ability to coat, due to schedule. My guess is MTO will go out and wash the bottom flanges periodically (in spring). The only way to coat the bridge in place is to close or shift lanes below.


The preliminary design that was completed as part of the EA for the 407 had quite a number of different features. The most notable differences were at the 407/412 and 401/412 interchanges. The ramp geometry was altered pretty significantly by the contractor.[/quote]





Burloak said:


> This is true - but steel I bridges have diaphragms (connecting adjacent girders together) every 8m or less, so they can take a bit of a hit. I can't recall a steel girder being demolished (not scraped or twisted), but I know of several concrete ones. I'd say corrosion is a bigger factor. The ones that are nicked, twisted, or slightly damaged can still be repaired - although it is a bit of a pain.


I know they've had a lot of success by heat straitening damaged girders.


----------



## xzmattzx

Has there ever been any talk of adding lanes to Highway 3 in Ontario? Putting aside the proposed Mid-Peninsula Highway that has been proposed for so long, Highway 3 seems like a nice alternative to getting from one end of Lake Erie to another. But for whatever reason, Highway 3 goes down to two lanes before it reaches central Port Colborne. It isn't even 4 lanes to Highway 140, which takes people to Highway 406. If an occasional third lane was added into spots, and at-grade bypasses were built around some of these towns like Cayuga and Simcoe, travel from Fort Erie and Port Colborne to Leamington and Windsor probably wouldn't be that bad.


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## sonysnob

The MTO did a form and function type study on Hwy 3 a few years ago, which determined that most of the traffic along the corridor is fairly local in nature and by-passes weren't warranted. Of course, some of that is a chicken and egg scenario. It isn't a particularly useful highway to through traffic because of the presence of so many communities, so only local traffic uses it.

Decades ago, there was a plan to continue the St. Thomas Expressway easterly along a new alignment to further east of Aylmer. While I don't think that project is officially dead (yet), construction of such a corridor seems pretty unlikely today.


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## ericmacm

I doubt Highway 3 will ever be twinned the whole way through, but I know that from the Windsor side, they will likely be extending its twin span from where it stops in Essex through to Leamington, as it can't accommodate the volume of traffic anymore, there are too many trucks that slow down traffic and lots of head-on collisions occur on that strip of highway.


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## sonysnob

Video of Highway 69 south of Sudbury:


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## ChrisZwolle

A bridge collapsed in Port Bruce, Ontario.


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## Burloak

And another one farther north in Chesley (between Walkerton and Owen Sound). It appears the pier was undermined by scour and rotated.

I haven't seen a clear picture of the Port Bruce one, but that looks like scour as well. I think the pier shifted and collapsed. That bridge has a drop in span in the middle - which obviously dropped.


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## sonysnob

Flooding has been pretty serious in Ontario this winter. Check out this ice jam in Brantford:

http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1166553667503/


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## ChrisZwolle

A crash between a semi tractor-trailer and a bus on Highway 35 north of Tisdale, Saskatchewan claimed 14 lives. The bus was carrying a youth hockey team.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/nipawin-humboldt-bus-crash-1.4609554


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## xzmattzx

ChrisZwolle said:


> A crash between a semi tractor-trailer and a bus on Highway 35 north of Tisdale, Saskatchewan claimed 14 lives. The bus was carrying a youth hockey team.
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/nipawin-humboldt-bus-crash-1.4609554


This has been big news down here in the US.


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## Calvin W

ChrisZwolle said:


> A crash between a semi tractor-trailer and a bus on Highway 35 north of Tisdale, Saskatchewan claimed 14 lives. The bus was carrying a youth hockey team.
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/nipawin-humboldt-bus-crash-1.4609554


Hit close to home for me. I know at least four of the deceased.


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## Penn's Woods

^^I’m so sorry.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Edmonton*

Edmonton, Alberta


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## Haljackey

ChrisZwolle said:


> Edmonton, Alberta


^^^^^^

*Full size link*
https://i.imgur.com/IBCsdA2.jpg

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AerialPorn/comments/8c7spw/the_entire_city_of_edmonton_canada_captured_in/


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## Calvin W

Took me awhile to figure out the orientation. North is to the left of the picture.


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## ChrisZwolle

Devastating impact on #Hwy403/Eglinton Ave after wrong way vehicle collided with a concrete barrier at 3:24am today. Vehicle reported travelling E/B in the W/B lanes from Winston Churchill Blvd. The lone driver, a 29 year old man is dead.​
https://twitter.com/OPP_HSD/status/990257291403415557

:nuts:


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## Kanadzie

^^ The "War Amps: Drivesafe" bumper sticker is remarkable

also managing to go the wrong way at Winston Churchill and driving so far to get to this area... must have stayed the shoulder whole way.


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## keokiracer

Kanadzie said:


> also managing to go the wrong way at Winston Churchill and driving so far to get to this area... must have stayed the shoulder whole way.


Is it that busy at night?



ChrisZwolle said:


> at 3:24am today.


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## Kanadzie

Oh, definitely, it's a major road in the Greater Toronto Area, AADT at crash area is 180k. It isn't bumper to bumper but he would have passed many vehicles in all lanes. Leftmost lane is a carpool lane for most of the stretch so would have had more traffic than otherwise would have.


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## highwayfan1232

The 407ETR is a scam highway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1dM-n5Ocng

https://www.blogto.com/city/2018/04/highway-407-etr-cost-toronto-ontario/


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## sonysnob

Video of Autoroute 73 taken at the peak of fall colours a few years ago:


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## sonysnob

Video of Autoroute 20 entering Montreal highlighting the construction underway to replace the Turcot Interchange and the Ville-Marie autoroute:


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## Kanadzie

^^ interesting to see how far they have come along with that work.
Last time I was downtown it was a bit surprising, I wanted to head west, so I was going down Lucien L'allier and... no more onramp, no more road, Fort St onramp gone... had to take St Antoine to Rose de Lima and the former eastbound offramp...

That "west" section of the 20 from St Jean to the bridge is really old. I think it is basically the original road from the 1940's but with median barrier and interchanges at the former grade crossings (St Jean overpass is circa 1955, St Charles circa 1966, the small diamond underpasses at Cartier and Woodland much newer)

The new HOV lane along the 55th Avenue area stretch and the return of the nasty 70 km/h limit sucks though. It is pretty typical to run 120 or more... I remember before the sound barriers it was posted 70 (the residents complained...) and widely ignored and the police had a nice hiding spot at the lane drop after the A-13 exit. Then they put the barriers and some time after put the limit to 100 all the way to 1st avenue after the curve, and it was good, at least for a time...


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## sonysnob

I'm not really a fan of the 70km/h speed limits on a lot of Montreal's freeways. When traffic moves, a lot of times the highway ends up being a free for all, with speeds ranging anywhere between 70km/h and 120km/h, seemingly in any lane.


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## Haljackey

Cool pic of Ontario Highway 403 just south of the 401 / 410 interchange in Mississauga










https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ON403_Aerial_Facing_South_-_Mississauga_(41040635222).jpg


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## Kanadzie

I wonder why they didn't continue the collector-express that starts at the 401/410/403 interchange through Mississauga... the corridor is huge and the traffic on the 403 is horrible. Either missed opportunity or wasted money on the overpowered 401/403 interchange...


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## Innsertnamehere

It should have gone to at least Hurontario.

Oh well, nothing you can do now. I believe the reason it ends where it does is that MTO originally planned for a highway paralleling Cawthra running down to the QEW, but it never happened.


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## sonysnob

It's curious how the MTO has elected to prioritize traffic through the 403. Traffic entering the westbound 403 from the westbound express lanes of the 401 basically has scads of highway capacity, while three lanes from the 410, and soon to be an additional lane from the eastbound 401 have to merge into what is effectively a single lane to join the 403 mainline at Cawthra.

Similarly, a decision has been made to sacrifice the eastbound collector lanes through Mississauga on the 401. Once the collector lanes are extended to the Credit River, all traffic entering the 401 from Mavis, Hurontario, the 410, the 403 Collectors and Dixie will have to endure the eastbound collector lanes as there will be no collector to express transfers in the entire distance from the Credit River until the Airport basketweave east of Etobicoke Creek.

The bridge that carries the eastbound collector lanes of the 401 over Etobicoke Creek _is_ being widened as part of the current bridge rehabilitation project, but a decision was deliberately made not to open an extra permanent eastbound lane through the collector lanes as there isn't sufficient downstream capacity in the express through the 427 interchange to handle any additional traffic.

The collectors are congested now, without traffic from Mavis... they're going to get much worse once the current widening project is completed.


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## highwayfan1232

sonysnob said:


> Additional views of the 407 taken east of the 418 interchange
> 
> Looking west and then east from the Liberty Street overpass in Bomanville:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_139_west_w_Jun18_24x16.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_139_west_t_Jun18_24x16.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_139_east_Jun18_24x16.jpg
> 
> Highway 407 crosses a small creek west of the Darlington/Clark Townline interchange:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_142_east_t_Jun18_24x16.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_structure_142-5_southeast_Apr18_24x16.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_structure_142_east_Jun18_24x16.jpg
> 
> Looking west and then east from the Darlington/Clark Townline Overpass:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_143_west_w_Jun18_24x16.jpg
> 
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> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_143_west_t_Jun18_24x16.jpg
> 
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> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_143_east_Jun18_24x16.jpg


Beautiful pictures. I would say this would be completed next year.


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## Kanadzie

Recently I`ve been intrigued with the history of the QEW in Ontario, especially the nasty bit along Halton.
Modern map: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4544741,-79.6736799,15z

I found this interesting photo from the early 60`s showing a view down what is now Trafalgar Rd, showing interestingly a intersection with the parclo ramps and Davis Rd. Today, the parclo ramps meet much closer to the highway, Davis Rd. is a cul-de-sac at an embankment, and there is a new road (Argus Rd.) that is a RIRO on southbound Trafalgar.
Also note the 4-lane railway underpass. Today a 6-lane from 1970`s exists, I had imagined previously it was at-grade, but not !
http://images.halinet.on.ca/OakvilleImages/Images/DF/jpgs/DF080748f.jpg

Here is an old Canada Post route map showing a bit of a rough sketch of the area, note how many streets haven`t been made yet and the connection of Sixth Line across Cross and into Seventh Line (Trafalgar). Today the street is broken up (6th Ln. north of QEW, Lyons Lane south, and then Old Mill Rd.) and of no use. Also, note how the Cornwall-Speers connection along 16 Mile Creek does not exist (!). Also, Third Line interchange isn`t present.
http://images.ourontario.ca/Partners/TTHS/TTHS002976013f.jpg

Bonus photo from 1950`s I believe of QEW/Kerr St area, note how Dorval Dr. does not exist.
http://images.halinet.on.ca/OakvilleImages/Images/DF/jpgs/DF103087f.jpg


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## sonysnob

Kanadzie said:


> http://images.ourontario.ca/Partners/TTHS/TTHS002976013f.jpg


I think my favourite thing about that map might be "The King's Highway 122" for Royal Windsor Drive.


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## Kanadzie

it was probabably still "Lower Middle Road" back then 

I kind of wonder the history of this road, the Ford railway subway are clearly old Ontario hwys dept and I think circa 1952, so the road was 4-lane divided there.
But the overpass of the railway later is clearly much much newer.

Look over here:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/L...ccd1be9f058cc4!8m2!3d43.4888429!4d-79.6539755
I think that`s an old alignment that met the existing stub with the houses on it to the north of the present road...


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## sonysnob

An updated view of the 401 through Mississauga. The signs for the Mavis Road interchange have been erected over the future eastbound collector lanes:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_337_east_C_Jun25-18_24x16.jpg


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## Haljackey

Great photo.

The collectors look so far away! Is there going to be a future transfer fit in here or something?


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## highwayfan1232

sonysnob said:


> An updated view of the 401 through Mississauga. The signs for the Mavis Road interchange have been erected over the future eastbound collector lanes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_337_east_C_Jun25-18_24x16.jpg


The 401 through Mississauga is my favorite section. It's the most interesting part of the highway.


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## Haljackey

Feds commit $102.5M to Mackenzie Valley Highway project

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north...ackenzie-valley-highway-project-nwt-1.4724467










-----

This route would provide access to the north form Central and Eastern Canada. Right now you need to 'backtrack' west to Yukon to access the *Dempster Highway*.


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## ChrisZwolle

Can you imagine what it would cost to build that entire highway, even as just a all-weather gravel road. There is some 700 kilometers missing between Wrigley and the Demspter Highway in Tsiigehtchic. Though there appear to be winter roads going as far north as Fort Good Hope.

In terms of all-weather road funding, it may be more efficient to concentrate that on the Manitoba and northwestern Ontario First Nations. They contain substantial populations and the winter road system that far south is becoming less reliable due to climate change.

There are already plans to build all-weather roads east of Lake Winnipeg.


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## ChrisZwolle

There are clusters of First Nations in Manitoba that are not accessible by road year-round. Some of them contain a substantial population.

For example, around Island Lake in Northeastern Manitoba there are three First Nations settlements;

* Wasagamack: 1,411
* St. Theresa Point: 2,871
* Garden Hill: 2,776

Relative nearby, there are two other communities;
* Red Sucker Lake: 1,067
* Gods Lake: 647

Combined population: 8,772

This area has a fairly dense winter road system:









Northwestern Ontario also has an extensive network of winter roads (in black):


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## Burloak

ChrisZwolle said:


> Can you imagine what it would cost to build that entire highway, even as just a all-weather gravel road. There is some 700 kilometers missing between Wrigley and the Demspter Highway in Tsiigehtchic. Though there appear to be winter roads going as far north as Fort Good Hope.


I found a $1.3B figure. 

file:///C:/Users/kenediwa/Downloads/Tulita%20PDR.pdf


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## Burloak

ChrisZwolle said:


> Northwestern Ontario also has an extensive network of winter roads (in black):


I thought I recall a 1960's or 70's proposal for an East-West highway from Nakina above Lake Nipigon to Armstrong to Pickle Lake to Red Lake to North-east Manitoba.


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## sonysnob

Some views of the twinning work underway between Nipigon and Red Rock, northeasterly of Thunder Bay, Ontario. These photos were taken by me just over two weeks ago:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_cl_1335_west_Jun18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_cl_1337_west_Jun18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_cl_1338_west_Jun18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_cl_1341_west_Jun18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_cl_1343_west_Jun18_24x16.jpg


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## ChrisZwolle

I was driving through Sweden and Norway earlier this month. There were a number of moments when I thought: this looks exactly like sonysnob's photos of Northern Ontario


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## Haljackey

I was in Windsor for Canada Day. The 401 is such a different animal there.


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## sonysnob

A couple of views of the new Champlain Bridge under construction in Montreal from May:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/10/A10_structure_PontChamplain_west_May18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/10/A10_structure_PontChamplain_northwest_May18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/10/A10_structure_PontChamplain_sail_May18_24x16.jpg


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## ChrisZwolle

*Gordie Howe International Bridge*

The Gordie Howe International Bridge between Windsor, Ontario and Detroit, Michigan will be a cable-stayed bridge. The Preferred Proponent has been announced today.










http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/winds...ge-authority-bridging-north-america-1.4734671


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 201 Calgary Ring Road*

*Work to start on West Calgary Ring Road*

*Construction of the West Calgary Ring Road, scheduled to begin in 2019, will complete the circle around Calgary and alleviate traffic congestion in the commercial heart of Alberta.*

The final section of the ring road includes more than nine kilometres along the west side of the city between Highway 8 and the Trans-Canada Highway. Once complete, the Calgary Ring Road will provide 101 kilometres of free-flow travel around the city.

The West Calgary Ring Road is expected to be open to traffic in 2022, one year after the completion of the southwest segment currently under construction.

The project includes three segments: 

* North: approximately three kilometres of six- and eight-lane divided freeway between Highway 1 (Trans-Canada Highway) and the Old Banff Coach Road and reconstruction of approximately five kilometres of Highway 1. This segment includes 18 bridges, two interchanges (Highway 1 and Valley Ridge Boulevard) and one flyover (1 Avenue SW).

* South: approximately four kilometres of six- and eight-lane divided freeway between Old Banff Coach Road and Highway 8, with seven bridges and four interchanges (Old Banff Coach Road, Bow Trail, 17 Avenue SW and Highway 8).

* Twinning the Bow River Bridge on the northwest segment of the ring road and widening about two kilometres of Northwest Stoney Trail from Crowchild Trail to Scenic Acres Link.​
Full press release: https://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?xID=562622CF3F2F2-EDF8-B831-AE34338C859AC150


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## Kanadzie

This would make going across Calgary really nice... just take 901 at Gleichen, come up 22X and East Fwy section of Stoney, Glenmore across Calgary to the new west ring and out Hwy 1 
You miss Strathmore and the stupîd lights east of Calgary on Hwy 1 and either the long detour of 201 or the slow city street of 16 Avenue.

Of course, SW RR would be even better...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

In Canada, a truck driver is allowed to drive 13 hours per day. That is 11 hours in the United States and 9-10 hours in the European Union.

Interestingly, Canadian truckers are allowed to drive for 13 hours straight, there is no mandatory break as they have in the U.S. and EU. 

In Europe, a truck driver must take a mandatory break after 4.5 hours
In the U.S., a truck driver must take a mandatory break after 8 hours
In Australia, a truck driver must take a mandatory break after 5 hours and 15 minutes

EU regulations are much more strict, both in the duration of driving per day as over a 2-week period. And speed limits are much lower, generally 80 or 90 km/h, dropping to 60 or 70 km/h on non-freeways in some countries. Hence, the amount of kilometers driven over a 2-week period is drastically lower in Europe than in the U.S. or Canada. Though as far as I know European truck drivers almost always get paid by the hour, not by the mile. Owner/operator also appears to be much less common in Europe, especially after the fierce competition from eastern EU countries after 2004.

Salaries in Canadian trucking also appears to be substantially higher for "over the road" trucking, with $ 70,000 - 75,000 cited in the media. In Europe that would be closer to C$ 50,000 for high-income countries like the Netherlands and substantially less in the east.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

There is a real labour shortage in trucking in Canada, thus the salaries. Nobody likes the long hours and days on end you are required to be away from home. A Toronto - Vancouver run takes a week.. not a lot of people like that.


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## ChrisZwolle

That's true, trucking is a lifestyle, not just an occupation.


----------



## Cricket_Fan

Innsertnamehere said:


> There is a real labour shortage in trucking in Canada, thus the salaries. Nobody likes the long hours and days on end you are required to be away from home. A Toronto - Vancouver run takes a week.. not a lot of people like that.


I agree in general, but a Toronto - Vancouver run would be shared by multiple drivers, would it not? Like driver 1 driving to Sudbury and then driving back to Toronto, while another driver takes the truck from Sudbury to Sault Ste Marie?


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## Kanadzie

^^ depends, I think a straight truck would just be one guy, if they had the time for so many changes, they'd might as well send it by train.
I know once I pretty much followed a truck from Sudbury to Montreal...

having said that, probably what you describe happens frequently - it's rare to see license plates from far away (in Toronto you can see Quebec and Manitoba, and New York, Michigan, Indiana all day long but BC or NS is relatively uncommon, but still on occasion...)


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## highwayfan1232

Brampton (Mount Pleasant) to Grand Bend via Highway 401 and Highway 8 filmed by A. Afram : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DjGSA-hKuw&lc=z22mjfuohruvi5kjb04t1aokgycnxm4x50yupgyur2vybk0h00410


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## ChrisZwolle

*Airport Trail, Calgary, AB*

*Airport Trail expansion moving ahead*

*A critical Calgary airport and industrial access road across the city’s northeast is moving ahead thanks in part to a Government of Alberta investment.*

The governments of Canada, Alberta and Calgary, along with the Calgary Airport Authority, have committed to fund the completion of Calgary’s Airport Trail between 36 Street NE and 60 Street NE. Once complete, Airport Trail will create a second, critically needed east-west transportation corridor in north Calgary, improving passenger and cargo access to the airport, and better routes across Calgary’s growing northeast industrial-commercial area.

The expansion of Airport Trail involves construction of:

• A new segment of Airport Trail between 36 Street NE and 60 Street NE, with an intersection at Métis Trail.
• The first stage of interchanges along Airport Trail at 19 Street NE and Barlow Trail. 
• A new southbound-to-westbound ramp at the interchange of Stoney Trail and Airport Trail.

Construction, which will support about 400 jobs, is expected to begin in 2018 and be complete in spring 2022.​
Full press release: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=150184033

I wonder what they mean by "the first stage of interchanges".


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## Kanadzie

^^ I think the initial plan is two more or less regular interchanges at these roads and the YYC Calgary airport access coming from existing local network connections to these roads, and ultimate plan being direct YYC-Airport Tr flyovers in between (vaguely like how YYZ Pearson Airport in Toronto has connections to main roads by Dixon Rd. but also Hwy 409 directly)

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportatio...rojects/transportation-study-presentation.pdf

I guess now it has been years but it is still weird looking at the YYC airport and somehow Barlow Tr (former AB Hwy 2) is broken and the airport spills over :lol:


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## Innsertnamehere

http://thechronicleherald.ca/novasc...nding-announced-for-highway-101-twinning-work

Older article, but still relevant. It details the plans for Nova Scotia's expansion of it's freeway system. About 70km is planned to be upgraded to freeway standards, most of which is a super 2 today, requiring only a second carriageway. The entire program is to cost only $390 million, or about $5.5 million / km.

- Highway 101 will be twinned for 9.5km around Windsor, NS. This will be completed by 2022;
- Highway 103 will be twinned for 22km between Upper Tantalon and Hubbards. This will be completed in 2020;
- Highway 104 will be twinned for 38km between Sutherlands River and Antigonish. This will be completed in 2022.


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## sonysnob

Some updated photos of the Highway 400 widening project through Vaughan:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/400_cl_37_south_c_Jul18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/400_cl_37_north_c_Jul18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/400_cl_37_north_NB_Jul18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/400_cl_43_south_Jul18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/400_cl_43_south_t_Jul18_24x16.jpg


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## mtomo

sonysnob said:


> Some new photos of the 401/418 interchange. Most of the structural steel seems to be up now, though there were still signs advertising of night closures later this week:
> 
> Looking east:
> 
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> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_425-95_east_Feb18_24x16.jpg
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> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_426_east_Feb18_24x16.jpg
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> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_426-5_east_Feb18_24x16.jpg
> 
> Looking west:
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> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_426-5_west_Feb18_24x16.jpg
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> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_426-25_west_Feb18_24x16.jpg
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> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_426_west_Feb18_24x16.jpg


so they didn't realign the 401 for this one like they did at 412?


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## sonysnob

There was no need to realign the 401 at the 418 interchange. The reason they realigned the highway at Highway 412 is because there wasn't enough space between the railway tracks and the old highway alignment for the ramps to and from Lake Ridge and the new highway.


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## Haljackey

Is it just me or does it seem excessive to make the 401/418 and 407/418 interchanges with all the connections?

I guess it's good for redundancy.

I'd assume the 401 EB to 407 EB via 418 would be very lightly used. The 35/115 is close and is diagonal... more direct? It's also free... Same thing going the opposite way - 407 WB to 401 WB would get light use.

Full connectivity for 412 is warranted because it is more centrally located.


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## Kanadzie

^^ probably in few years there will be enough development local traffic will make it worthwhile. Plus all the connections are relatively cheap compared to the flyovers, and people are paying each time...

I wonder why they made the semi-directional Y interchanges though at the north end instead of some bigger trumpets. Maybe some day they will extend them north, but it would be expensive to fly on the fourth level...


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## sonysnob

Video of the 402 in Sarnia:


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## ssiguy2

Thanks for the great 402 vid! When was it taken?


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## sonysnob

It was filmed on May 15, of this year.


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## sonysnob

Some images of the 410 construction taken earlier today. The collector lane between the 401 interchange and Courtneypark Road is really starting to take shape:

Three views looking northerly from the high-level ramp that connects the eastbound 401 to the northbound 410:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/410_cl_0_north_SB-offramp_north_Jul18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/410_cl_0_north_SB_Jul18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/410_cl_0_north_Jul18_24x16.jpg

Surprisingly, the signage in the collector lanes is green instead of blue.








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/410_dv_1-5_north_C_Jul18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/410_dv_1-9_north_C_Jul18_24x16.jpg

A sign awaiting to be installed over the express lanes:


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## sonysnob

Some photos of the new Victoria Street overpass over Hwy 7/85 in Kitchener. This overpass is being replaced in advance of the new Highway 7 - Kitchener to Guelph Freeway.









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/7_cl_189_east_EB_Jul18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/7_cl_189_east_EB-coll_Jul18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/7_cl_189_east_WB_Jul18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_80-89_images/85_cl_0-05_south_Jul18_24x16.jpg


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## sonysnob

Updated views of the Highway 401 widening between 8 and 24 in KWC. Looks like they are about ready to commission the new eastbound carriageway:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_279_west_WB_w_Jul29-18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_279_west_WB_t_Jul29-18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_279_east_EB_w_Jul29-18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_279_east_WB-offramp_Jul29-18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_281_west_EB_w_Jul29-18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_281_west_WB_Jul29-18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_281_east_WB_w_Jul29-18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_281_east_WB_t_Jul29-18_24x16.jpg


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## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 91, Surrey, B.C.*

The last intersection on B.C. Highway 91 has now been replaced by an overpass. The 72nd Avenue in Surrey was a traffic light controlled intersection. So Highway 91 is now entirely a freeway from end to end. 

https://www.surreynowleader.com/news/video-new-overpass-at-72nd-avenue-now-open-to-traffic/


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## General Maximus

Yes. But whilst being stoned is now legal in Canada, you're not supposed to drive when you are. You get fined, and roads do start to look like the ones above...


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## Kanadzie

^^ ^^ 
As usual, Quebec does it better 
https://richard3.net/2008/06/25/des-reponses-a-vos-questions/
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.286...903&pitch=0&thumbfov=100!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en


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## Innsertnamehere

The QEW one is the oddest - you would think that MTO could find a better spot to test its painting than on a major freeway in live lanes. The Autoroute 30 one is on a stub portion of the highway that isn't open, and my example is an old road alignment which while technically open to the public it only services a single farmers field access path, so sees essentially no actual traffic.


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## Abhishek901

What is the purpose of this testing? If the purpose is to see how long the paint lasts, won't it be better to test it on an actual road?


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## Kanadzie

^^ maybe to test wear of vehicle traffic over the paint?

there is a big test zone along the 417 westbound more or less around Vankleek Hill also.


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## sonysnob

I too think they want to see how paint fares against traffic.

I'm not sure how visible they are, but the paint test area on the QEW was interesting because they tried a bunch of different marking designs for the temporary HOV lanes that were installed throughout the GTA for the PanAm games.


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## ChrisZwolle

The new Champlain Bridge in Montréal had a planned opening date of 21 December 2018, but has been delayed to June 2019.

>> https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvell...rture-pont-champlain-champagne-ottawa-federal


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## xzmattzx

The difference between my example of the paint testing and the examples north of Toronto and in Quebec is that my example from the QEW is in a regular traffic lane and is driven over 10,000 times a day. I don't understand the logic behind testing paint when it doesn't go through wear and tear.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Saskatchewan*

*New Overpasses In Martensville And Warman Open Ahead Of Schedule*

* The Government of Saskatchewan announced today the overpass project at Martensville and Warman will open to traffic this fall, nearly one year ahead of schedule.*

The Highway 11 project near Warman comprises construction of a new two-lane overpass for Highway 305, on and off ramps, and about 5 km of new four-lane divided highway as well as improvements to the rail crossing and safety upgrades at the Highway 11 and Ferry Road/Central Street intersection.










It also includes construction of about 3 km of new four-lane divided roadway for Highway 12 at Martensville and the new two-lane overpass for Township Road 384 with on and off ramps, which are open to traffic. Further improvements include the reconfiguration of the Centennial Drive and Main Street intersection, and a new Highway 12 exit ramp and signalized intersection at Centennial Drive and Fourth Street.​
Full press release: http://www.saskatchewan.ca/governme...ober/26/overpasses-at-martensville-and-warman

Saskatchewan seems serious about upgrading its highways around the largest cities of Regina and Saskatoon.


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## sonysnob

Work is ongoing to widen the 407 through eastern Markham from six to eight lanes:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_92_east_EB_t_Oct18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_94_west_C_Oct18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_94_east_C_Oct18_24x16.jpg


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## highwayfan1232

sonysnob said:


> Work is ongoing to widen the 407 through eastern Markham from six to eight lanes:
> 
> 
> 
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> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_92_east_EB_t_Oct18_24x16.jpg
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> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_94_west_C_Oct18_24x16.jpg
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> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_94_east_C_Oct18_24x16.jpg


Nice photos bro. I've been on the 407 on that section when I was riding on a GO bus. Hope they would finish the interchanges at 9th Line and Donald Cousens Parkway, install high mass lightings, and overhead signs. The 407 widening projects are insanely fast.


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## highwayfan1232

The 407 also has a widening project schedule for the Markham-Pickering section: https://www.407etr.com/documents/pr...& Utilities Conference - February 8, 2018.pdf


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## sonysnob

^ Yeah, I think that's giving the 407 too much credit (or at least giving the government too little credit).

It's not that difficult or time consuming to widen a brand new highway. It still took two years to widen the 7km of highway from Brock Road to the York-Durham Line. That isn't particularly expedient.


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## Cricket_Fan

How many km does this 407 widening cover?


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## ChrisZwolle

Kanadzie said:


> Private sector competence


And adequate funding. Conventional government projects often allocate funding in tranches and in some cases requires numerous contracts for each little part of the project (grading, paving, bridges, signage, markings, etc.) This is generally less efficient than to award one big contract to a major construction company and have them use subcontractors. 

You can see these differences in Europe as well. French toll road operators and the Dutch government award large contracts, fully funded from the start, so they can be completed in as little time and with as little traffic impact as possible, whereas similar projects in Germany and Switzerland take forever to get completed and cause so many delays. 

Germany opened 7 sections of Autobahn over the past 2 years, six of them had a construction time of 6-8 years and only one had a construction time of 2.5 years. And almost none of those involved large structures (bridges or tunnels). Meanwhile similar projects in the Netherlands, Denmark or France are completed in 1.5-2 years.


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## highwayfan1232

Cricket_Fan said:


> How many km does this 407 widening cover?


That's what it said here: https://www.407etr.com/documents/pr...& Utilities Conference - February 8, 2018.pdf


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## Abhishek901

highwayfan1232 said:


> The 407 also has a widening project schedule for the Markham-Pickering section: https://www.407etr.com/documents/pr...& Utilities Conference - February 8, 2018.pdf


On page 33 of this document, it's mentioned that the highway already has reached the ultimate capacity of 5+5 lanes in the central portion while in reality, it has 6+6 lanes in that portion. Am I missing something or is this a typo?


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## sonysnob

I think they must consider the lanes through the Pine Valley interchange to be auxiliary lanes, so they don't really count them.

When the 407 first opened and was only six lanes wide, there was a westbound auxiliary lane west from the 400 interchange through Pine Valley and ending just west of the Humber River bridge. There was also an eastbound auxiliary lane that started easterly from Pine Valley to the 400 exit. The project to widen the 407 just connected these already long pre-existing auxiliary lanes to the ramp lanes at the 427 interchange. 

So while you're right, I think it's just an issue of semantics. That's my two cents at least.


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## highwayfan1232

The 401 from Mississauga Road to Hurontario Street will be closed starting Friday at 11:00 pm and finish on Saturday at 9:00 am to shift the westbound lanes from the existing lanes to the new concrete lanes. When it's finished, get some photos of the changes and post it here: https://www.inbrampton.com/part-of-401-about-to-be-closed-this-coming-weekend


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## ChrisZwolle

Interesting, the Trans-Canada Highway in Northern Ontario will see some twinning as early as next year. The media report that a ~15 kilometer section will be twinned from the Manitoba border to Rush Bay. Presently the four lane highway out of Winnipeg narrows to a single carriageway at the Manitoba/Ontario provincial border.

https://www.drydennow.com/local/stars-have-aligned-for-highway-twinning-nault


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## highwayfan1232

I did a highway construction update video on the Highway 427 in Rexdale: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3izlUnRZECo


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## ChrisZwolle

*Pont Samuel-de-Champlain Bridge*

Champlain Bridge or Pont Champlain is not fancy enough, so they rename the bridge:


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## Abhishek901

What's the construction progress of this bridge?


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## Kanadzie

supposed to open in June


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## sonysnob

The Noden Causeway in Northwestern Ontario -- This bridge carries Ontario's Highway 11 across Rainy Lake hopping across several large shoals it links Fort Frances with all major communities to the east:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_structure_1782_northeast_w_Jun18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_structure_1782_northeast_t_Jun18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_cl_1782-1_east_Jun18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_cl_1782_east_Jun18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_cl_1781-9_east_Jun18_24x16.jpg


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## Burloak

Since Noden Causeway is 3 bridges, it is MTO's 7th and 10th longest bridge.

#1: QEW Burlington Bay Skyway - Toronto Bound (2560m long). 
#2: QEW Burlington Bay Skyway - Niagaraa Bound (2220m long). 
#3: QEW Garden City Skyway - (both directions on 1 bridge) (2160m long). 
#4: Hwy. 62 Norris Whitney Skyway (Belleville) (880m long).
#5: Hwy. 49 Bay of Quinte Skyway (Deseronto) (850m long).
#6: Hwy. 34 Long Sault Bridge (Hawkesbury) (650m long) (jointly owned by Quebec).
#7: Hwy. 11 Noden Causeway High Level Bridge (610m long).
#8: Hwy. 420 Ramp to QEW Fort Erie bound (590m long).
#9: Hwy. 401 EB Ramp to Hwy. 410 NB (560m).
#10: Hwy. 11 Noden Causeway Low Level Bridge (550m long).

The longest span for MTO is the Burlington Bay Skyway (Toronto Bound) with a main span of 151m (495').


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## Innsertnamehere

Who owns and operates the international bridges? Are they a shared responsibility between Canada and the US? A lot of the big bridges in Ontario are the border crossings.


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## Burloak

Innsertnamehere said:


> Who owns and operates the international bridges? Are they a shared responsibility between Canada and the US? A lot of the big bridges in Ontario are the border crossings.


I was surprised how varied the arrangement are: 

One (the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel) is jointly owned by the cities of Detroit and Windsor.
One (the Ogdensburg–Prescott International Bridge) is owned by the State of New York (and operated by the Ogdensburg Bridge and Port Authority)
Two (the Ambassador Bridge and Fort Frances – International Falls International Bridge) are privately owned and operated. Ambassador owned by Manuel Moroun and FF-IF by Boise Inc. and Resolute Forest Products.
Two (Pigeon River, Rainy River) are jointly owned and maintained by the province (Ontario) and the State (Minnesota)
Most are owned jointly by the Federal governments, who have set up a commission to operate and maintain them. Federal Bridge Corporation for bridges over the seaway (the Soo, Bluewater, 1000 Island and Seaway @ Cornwall). Niagara Falls Bridge Commission operates the Rainbow, Whirlpool and Q-L bridges. Buffalo and Fort Erie Public Bridge Authority operates the Peace Bridge.


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## xzmattzx

ScraperDude said:


> This sign only applies to Canadians (j/k):lol: I have been visiting Ontario for over 2 decades and have yet to pay any ticket. The first ticket I ever got for speeding in Canada, the Toronto PD said "well, you can pay it, but since you're American there's nothing much we can do about it if you don't.
> So I don't. :cheers:
> 
> The parking tickets I have received are also in a nice memory box in my attic. The tickets from days gone by have my old North Carolina license plate number so I guess they don't have a way to trace it? I have never been stopped at the border for unpaid tickets either. Who gon check me boo??


Really? I got a speeding ticket once, and they said they could see that I had an unpaid ticket at the border, and not let me in. I ended up paying it.


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## ChrisZwolle

An interesting story about federally owned and operated provincial highways in British Columbia.

>> https://www.tranbc.ca/2018/12/05/share-and-share-alike-federal-sections-on-provincial-highways/

It concerns sections of Highway 1 (Trans-Canada) and Highway 4 (Vancouver Island) which run through national parks, but also an 855 kilometer section of Highway 97 (Alaska Highway) in Northern British Columbia.


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## Innsertnamehere

yes - Parks Canada has been slowly upgrading the Trans Canada through Banff and Yoho National Parks over the last decade from Alberta and now into BC. It's interesting how Parks Canada of all agencies is doing it.. but they maintain all the roads through their parks, even if it is the main trans-national highway. The projects are 100% federally funded, with no provincial contribution.


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## Abhishek901

Trans Canada through Banff and Yoho is such a beautiful drive.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Alberta*

The heaviest load ever moves in central Alberta these days. It is called a splitter, it weighs 820 tons and measures 96 meters in length.


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## geogregor

QEW, from around 2 min you can see test paint on the surface:


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## ssiguy2

Is that the QEW in Ontario? I`ve never seen traffic that light on the QEW even near Fort Erie or is it the QE2 in Alberta?


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## geogregor

ssiguy2 said:


> Is that the QEW in Ontario? I`ve never seen traffic that light on the QEW even near Fort Erie or is it the QE2 in Alberta?


Yes, the one in Ontario. I dove it mid day not in the morning peak. On top of that the bit in my video is the rural part, closer to Buffalo than to Toronto.

I got stuck in the traffic closer to Toronto


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## Burloak

ssiguy2 said:


> Is that the QEW in Ontario? I`ve never seen traffic that light on the QEW even near Fort Erie or is it the QE2 in Alberta?


It's close to Beamsville if you know the area. 

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.186383,-79.442129,161a,35y,45t/data=!3m1!1e3


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## ChrisZwolle

_Heavy Rescue: 401_ has recently commenced its third season. Is anyone following that? I find it interesting, it's the same - yet different from _Highway Thru Hell_. The southern Ontario towing industry has different dynamics from those in the British Columbia mountains.


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## Innsertnamehere

it looks like it's essentially right after the Peace Bridge - that stretch is not that busy as most cars are travelling to Buffalo at that point.


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## sonysnob

ChrisZwolle said:


> _Heavy Rescue: 401_ has recently commenced its third season. Is anyone following that? I find it interesting, it's the same - yet different from _Highway Thru Hell_. The southern Ontario towing industry has different dynamics from those in the British Columbia mountains.


I watch this show. I like it. Though I haven't seen any of the new episodes from season 3 yet though. The amount of pressure there is to reopen the highway following an incident for the heavy rescue operators must put a tremendous amount of strain on the operators.


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## geogregor

Kanadzie said:


> I have to admit I really like the idea of "30 year toll and then free" PPP highway construction. The government has no money because of heavy social services spending, and it is incompetent at managing large capital projects. The time is short enough to be realistic and long enough that the road needs to be built properly. These kind of "in our lifetime" PPP seem an excellent solution even though I abhor tolls. Toll could be avoided too by government just paying, e.g. the Calgary SE Ring road project, etc.


The problem with those PPP deals is that financing costs ( cost of borrowing) are higher for private entities than for the states (with some exceptions for the likes of Venezuela or Argentina ).

Financing infrastructure investment via PPP is just more costly in the long term as money has to be borrowed by private investors at higher interests rates.

It has merit in certain situations but it is not a silver bullet by any means.


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## ChrisZwolle

The flip side is that a $ 1 billion+ government investment increases the debt, whereas a PPP with monthly installments enable governments to spread the investment out over a 20 or 30 year period. 

This is also why PPPs rapidly became more popular during and after the 2008 financial crisis. It enabled governments to proceed with large projects without ballooning the debt.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> The flip side is that a $ 1 billion+ government investment increases the debt, whereas a PPP with monthly installments enable governments to spread the investment out over a 20 or 30 year period.
> 
> This is also why PPPs rapidly became more popular during and after the 2008 financial crisis. It enabled governments to proceed with large projects without ballooning the debt.


Initially. Over the years as more and more of those project have to be paid on monthly/annual basis that freedom to invest will evaporate. But the higher total costs will be for the state to pay, for decades.

As I said, the PPP projects have certain merits but I have a feeling that some countries went too much in that direction. It is allowing ribbon cutting now but long term costs might be significant.


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## ChrisZwolle

I think it works like a mortgage. Instead of paying the entire price of the house at once, you'll pay monthly installments. 

In some countries or states the cash flow of governments is so low that projects degenerate into a very piecemeal approach: from a big project to smaller subprojects to awarding every stage separately, dragging construction of each sub project out over many more years. For example in some states they build bridges in year 1-2, grading in year 3-4, paving in year 5-6, etc. 

This means that money is spent while it provides no useful infrastructure, until a whole sequence of small sub projects are completed after decades. Just look at how long it takes to build a longer section of Interstate Highway today. Or even a bypass of a town in Germany may take over a decade that way. PPPs are an answer to that if the government is unable or unwilling to fund large projects at once.


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## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> This means that money is spent while it provides no useful infrastructure, until a whole sequence of small sub projects are completed after decades. Just look at how long it takes to build a longer section of Interstate Highway today. Or even a bypass of a town in Germany may take over a decade that way. PPPs are an answer to that if the government is unable or unwilling to fund large projects at once.


But I think in Germany it has nothing to do with funding but with trying to let contracts to smaller local firms. That's why they break large contracts in such a bizarre way. At least that's what I have read somewhere.


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## Kanadzie

geogregor said:


> The problem with those PPP deals is that financing costs ( cost of borrowing) are higher for private entities than for the states (with some exceptions for the likes of Venezuela or Argentina ).
> 
> Financing infrastructure investment via PPP is just more costly in the long term as money has to be borrowed by private investors at higher interests rates.
> 
> It has merit in certain situations but it is not a silver bullet by any means.


You could always structure it in a way where the private entity has a loan guarantee by the government, they seem to love giving such deals to useless companies with friends (e.g. Bombardier in Canada), surely this better :lol:


----------



## Yellow Fever

*McKenzie interchange project delayed – again*

CTV Vancouver Island 

Published Friday, April 12, 2019 9:46AM PDT 
Last Updated Friday, April 12, 2019 7:57PM PDT

West Shore commuters will have to wait longer and pay more before seeing the completion of the McKenzie interchange project.

Construction of the overpass across the Trans-Canada Highway at the intersection of Admirals Road and McKenzie Avenue was initially slated for completion by late 2018.

The province now says the final phase of the work is 50 per cent complete, with the job wrapping up by summer 2020.

Once complete, the construction is intended to save commuters travelling from downtown to the western communities about 20 minutes travel time.

B.C.'s Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure plans to remove the traffic lights from Highway 1 by this winter, allowing highway traffic to flow through the intersection without stopping in the future.

The delays also come with added cost. 

"There will be an increased cost," Janelle Staite, regional deputy director for the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, told media on Friday. 

"[We're] just getting to the bottom line of what that number is, so I expect in the next month or so we'll be able to share that."

In the meantime, the province says "unforeseen factors," such as challenging weather and ground conditions, have slowed the work.

"We're actually lowering Highway 1 about eight metres," ...

https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/mckenzie-interchange-project-delayed-again-1.4377492



Mckenzie by Hung Lam, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 1, British Columbia*

*Major Trans-Canada improvements to boost trade and support safe efficient travels in and around Langley*

Today, François-Philippe Champagne, federal Minister of Infrastructure and Communities, John Horgan, Premier of British Columbia, and Jack Froese, mayor of Langley, announced $235.5 million in joint funding for upgrades to Highway 1 in Langley.

Work involves widening a total of ten kilometres between 216th Street and 264th Street by adding a new high-occupancy vehicle (HOV) lane in each direction, reconfiguring the 232nd Street interchange and adding a new underpass at Glover Road and the CP Rail crossing. A new truck parking lot will also be added near Highways 1 and 17 for up to 150 commercial trucks and up to 45 passenger vehicles.​
Full press release: https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2019TRAN0062-000774#

Good that they're widening it, but a carpool lane as a third lane doesn't make much sense, carpooling is so low that it isn't justified to allocate a third of highway capacity to it. Unless they anticipate it would mainly be used by motorists already traveling with family.

According to Statistics Canada, the share of _commuting_ using carpool in Vancouver is 11.2%. However commuting makes up a minority in highway travel overall, so the real share of carpooling among all traffic is much lower than 11%, making carpool lanes either underused or not used as intended (most carpoolers are family members who would travel together regardless of carpool lanes, so they don't actually reduce vehicle travel).


----------



## Innsertnamehere

when they say carpool they really mean HOV lane, which requires 2+ people in a car to use it. In Ontario they also allow electric vehicles to use it, even with a single occupant.. I imagine that BC is the same.

My experience with them in Toronto is that they still back up in rush hour, just not as slowly as the regular lanes. You may average 40km/h in the HOV compared to 20km/h in the regular lanes. the percentage of cars with 2 people is pretty high, they are more or less equal to a regular lane in terms of added capacity.


----------



## sonysnob

I wonder if BC would ever consider tolling their HOV lanes like Ontario is planning on doing / currently doing.

Probably not with their current NDP government, but the country seems to be swinging to the right, so maybe that's a possibility in the future as well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I believe the NDP government actually de-tolled several bridges in the Vancouver area.


----------



## sonysnob

^ yeah they did. You're right.


----------



## Kanadzie

Innsertnamehere said:


> when they say carpool they really mean HOV lane, which requires 2+ people in a car to use it. In Ontario they also allow electric vehicles to use it, even with a single occupant.. I imagine that BC is the same.
> 
> My experience with them in Toronto is that they still back up in rush hour, just not as slowly as the regular lanes. You may average 40km/h in the HOV compared to 20km/h in the regular lanes. the percentage of cars with 2 people is pretty high, they are more or less equal to a regular lane in terms of added capacity.


The worst is at off-peak times and the regular lanes are running 120 km/h and the HOV is a conga-line at 100 behind some dumbass :bash:


----------



## xzmattzx

Kanadzie said:


> The worst is at off-peak times and the regular lanes are running 120 km/h and the HOV is a conga-line at 100 behind some dumbass :bash:


And you can't change lanes because it's a solid line. There aren't many metro areas that don't allow you to change. I like how in Virginia, the HOV lane has a dotted line, so you can go in and out as you please if you qualify for it. So you have a chance to go around a slowpoke.


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## Kanadzie

Virginia (and most places) also have the HOV lane only at a peak hour, so usually it just works normally for the rest of the time... (even the two-way centre carriageway Virginia likes to use)


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Government of Ontario announced that they are looking at raising speed limits on 400 series highways and potentially elsewhere..

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...er-highway-speed-limit-review-death-1.5118563


----------



## Penn's Woods

Innsertnamehere said:


> Government of Ontario announced that they are looking at raising speed limits on 400 series highways and potentially elsewhere..
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...er-highway-speed-limit-review-death-1.5118563




Is there any place in Canada with speed limits over 100 km/h?


----------



## smokiboy

Nova Scotia.


----------



## smokiboy

With the recent announcement of the widening of the 401 from Regional Road 25 in Milton to the Credit River in Mississauga, my question is what about the section from Renforth Drive to about Islington Avenue? This stretch remains a bottleneck. 

From BlogTO: https://www.blogto.com/city/2019/04/ontario-widening-highway-401/


----------



## Cricket_Fan

smokiboy said:


> With the recent announcement of the widening of the 401 from Regional Road 25 in Milton to the Credit River in Mississauga, my question is what about the section from Renforth Drive to about Islington Avenue? This stretch remains a bottleneck.
> 
> From BlogTO: https://www.blogto.com/city/2019/04/ontario-widening-highway-401/


I don't believe there are any plans for this section. I am not even sure if any EA or pre-tender activities have happened for that section. I wouldn't expect anything to happen at least for the next 10 years.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Penn's Woods said:


> Is there any place in Canada with speed limits over 100 km/h?


All of Western Canada. I believe the prairies have 110 even on non-controlled access highways. B.C. has 120 km/h on some freeways.


----------



## smokiboy

@ Cricket_Fan

It almost sounds like; if we don't talk about it we don't have a problem. I think that section would require some overpasses to be rebuilt, and there may be some other space limitations, but overall, at least from a cursory look from Google Earth I think it could be done.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> All of Western Canada. I believe the prairies have 110 even on non-controlled access highways. B.C. has 120 km/h on some freeways.




I haven’t driven west of Ontario. Haven’t been in western Canada since I was eight years old.


----------



## Burloak

Penn's Woods said:


> Is there any place in Canada with speed limits over 100 km/h?


I think BC, Alberta, Sask, and Manitoba all do.


----------



## Cricket_Fan

smokiboy said:


> @ Cricket_Fan
> 
> It almost sounds like; if we don't talk about it we don't have a problem. I think that section would require some overpasses to be rebuilt, and there may be some other space limitations, but overall, at least from a cursory look from Google Earth I think it could be done.


It would be expensive as hell, but sooner or later it will become more expensive not to build it. I think for the time being MTO is basically treating 409 as an express lane of 401 for that stretch, but I don't think drivers are thinking like that. If you use waze then a lot of times it will take you on 409 to skip that stretch. You can use that to your advantage since most drivers don't do that.


----------



## Abhishek901

Innsertnamehere said:


> Government of Ontario announced that they are looking at raising speed limits on 400 series highways and potentially elsewhere..
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...er-highway-speed-limit-review-death-1.5118563


About time. Interstates in US which are not as well-designed as 400-series highways (for example having short merging and exit lanes on Interstates) have much higher speed limits and they have been increasing since last few decades.



Penn's Woods said:


> Is there any place in Canada with speed limits over 100 km/h?


I drove on Trans Canada Highway west of Calgary which has a speed limit of 110 km/hr. I also drove on BC-5 west of Kamloops which has a speed limit of 120 km/hr.



Cricket_Fan said:


> It would be expensive as hell, but sooner or later it will become more expensive not to build it. I think for the time being MTO is basically treating 409 as an express lane of 401 for that stretch, but I don't think drivers are thinking like that. If you use waze then a lot of times it will take you on 409 to skip that stretch. You can use that to your advantage since most drivers don't do that.


I also take that route (401-409-427-401) if it shows as a faster route on Google maps


----------



## Burloak

Abhishek901 said:


> I also take that route (401-409-427-401) if it shows as a faster route on Google maps


This is good if you are taking 401 to Milton (or at least Hurontario) or 410. 
If you want to exit at 403, it forces you into the 403 Collector lanes, which are terribly slow until Cawthra. 

401 Express goes to 403 Express, while 401 Collector goes to 403 Collector. 

If you join 401 from 427 SB or NB, or if you are coming south on 410 - you have no chance of getting to 403 Express and you must wait it out in the Collector where essentially drops down to 1 lane to merge with the express (the right lane officially ends about 200m beyond the merge point). 

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6202998,-79.634787,18z


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Penn's Woods said:


> Is there any place in Canada with speed limits over 100 km/h?


I believe every province except Ontario and Quebec have 110 limits, with BC additionally having a few 120 limits.


----------



## Kanadzie

that's right... typical motorway in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia are 110 as well.
Even Newfoundland 4-lane road is 110 IIRC.


----------



## Kanadzie

smokiboy said:


> @ Cricket_Fan
> 
> It almost sounds like; if we don't talk about it we don't have a problem. I think that section would require some overpasses to be rebuilt, and there may be some other space limitations, but overall, at least from a cursory look from Google Earth I think it could be done.


I think the whole 427 interchanges area are really expensive and complicated rebuild/replacement areas

But the structures are getting old and it is time to start planning even just to avoid them quebecking to the ground...


----------



## Cricket_Fan

smokiboy said:


> With the recent announcement of the widening of the 401 from Regional Road 25 in Milton to the Credit River in Mississauga, my question is what about the section from Renforth Drive to about Islington Avenue? This stretch remains a bottleneck.
> 
> From BlogTO: https://www.blogto.com/city/2019/04/ontario-widening-highway-401/


Going back to this contract, I'll be very surprised if it gets completed by end of 2022 if they start end of 2019. That gives them just 3 years to complete the construction. Given how much time they've taken for much smaller widening projects in the GTA and vicinity, I'd think anything less than 6 years would be unrealistic.


----------



## ssiguy2

100km/hr is so ridiculous, no one ever drives that slow. In Ontario I don't think I have ever seen anyone drive under 100. I find that most travel between 120 to 130 and most transports from roughly 105 to 115.


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## ChrisZwolle

I believe semi trucks require a speed limiter at 105 km/h to operate in Ontario and Québec. So technically they shouldn't be able to drive faster than that.


----------



## RipleyLV

ssiguy2 said:


> 100km/hr is so ridiculous, no one ever drives that slow. In Ontario I don't think I have ever seen anyone drive under 100. I find that most travel between 120 to 130 and most transports from roughly 105 to 115.


I was quite surprised about drivers doing 110 km/h on average, when I drove on the 401 from Windsor to Toronto last year. I was doing 120 km/h  , and the fastest that overtook me was doing 130/140 km/h.


----------



## smokiboy

Does anyone know what the rule is on trucks driving in the left lane? Is it only to overtake? I've seen trucks driving in all (3) lanes at various times.


----------



## Burloak

smokiboy said:


> Does anyone know what the rule is on trucks driving in the left lane? Is it only to overtake? I've seen trucks driving in all (3) lanes at various times.


They can't go in the left lane. 
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900608 
This also includes the Kitchener area highway 7 and 8 that are freeways. 

Some locations trucks have a bit of excuse (i.e. where a ramp joins in from the left and when it take a bit of time for the truck to safety make it out of the left lane), but I have seen them stretching this out for a bit longer than they should. But it is still rare that I see a truck in the left lane, or using the left to pass.


----------



## smokiboy

@Burloak thanks for the reply.

I figured it was something like that. But I have seen my fair share of trucks passing trucks at 120km. Next time I'll video it.


----------



## hkskyline

Friday Night Lights by CJ Burnell, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Ontario speed limits*

*Ontario Introduces Speed Limit Pilots and Consultations*

The Ontario Government is exploring new ways to improve traffic flow and safety on provincial highways by introducing three speed limit pilots on select highways. At the same time, Ontario's Government for the people will launch province-wide consultations on how to safely increase highway speeds to align with other provinces, and how people currently drive.

Three sections of highways are planned as pilot locations in Southern Ontario where the highway speed will be posted at 110 km/h starting in mid-September:

Highway 402 from London to Sarnia;
the Queen Elizabeth Way (QEW) from St. Catharines to Hamilton; and
Highway 417 from Ottawa/Gloucester to Ontario/Quebec border.

The Ministry of Transportation is exploring options for a fourth pilot in Northern Ontario.

Our government is adding extra safety measures such as increased signage and messaging. We will also protect the safety of drivers by proposing amendments that keep the street-racing penalties at 150 km/h. This means in the speed limit pilot zones, the street-racing penalties will apply at 40 km/h over the posted speed limit, not the usual 50 km/h over.​
>> https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2019/05/ontario-introduces-speed-limit-pilots-and-consultations.html

It's an improvement over the archaic 100 km/h rural freeway speed limit. Though a bit disappointing they didn't roll out a 120 km/h trial, and that Highway 401 is not included (it would be interesting to see results on a route with heavy truck traffic).


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> *Ontario Introduces Speed Limit Pilots and Consultations*
> 
> 
> 
> The Ontario Government is exploring new ways to improve traffic flow and safety on provincial highways by introducing three speed limit pilots on select highways. At the same time, Ontario's Government for the people will launch province-wide consultations on how to safely increase highway speeds to align with other provinces, and how people currently drive.
> 
> 
> 
> Three sections of highways are planned as pilot locations in Southern Ontario where the highway speed will be posted at 110 km/h starting in mid-September:
> 
> 
> 
> Highway 402 from London to Sarnia;
> 
> the Queen Elizabeth Way (QEW) from St. Catharines to Hamilton; and
> 
> Highway 417 from Ottawa/Gloucester to Ontario/Quebec border.
> 
> 
> 
> The Ministry of Transportation is exploring options for a fourth pilot in Northern Ontario.
> 
> 
> 
> Our government is adding extra safety measures such as increased signage and messaging. We will also protect the safety of drivers by proposing amendments that keep the street-racing penalties at 150 km/h. This means in the speed limit pilot zones, the street-racing penalties will apply at 40 km/h over the posted speed limit, not the usual 50 km/h over.​
> 
> 
> >> https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2019/05/ontario-introduces-speed-limit-pilots-and-consultations.html
> 
> 
> 
> It's an improvement over the archaic 100 km/h rural freeway speed limit. Though a bit disappointing they didn't roll out a 120 km/h trial, and that Highway 401 is not included (it would be interesting to see results on a route with heavy truck traffic).




Just came here to post the CBC item (which just hit my Facebook feed now for some reason.)

Well, in case it adds anything...:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/ontario-highways-higher-speed-limits-pilot-project-1.5130656


----------



## Haljackey

While I would have preferred 120, 110 is something.

Perhaps when this trial is done maybe they will try 120?


----------



## Kanadzie

The 110 "pilot program" is so tremendously underwhelming (only 110? only on hardly any road?)
When all these roads were built 50 years ago the limit was 112 already (70 mph). 
OPP spokesman is warning of chaos because "they see guys going even 250" 
Ontario is such a tremendously weird place with this strong puritanical bent... but at least, something happening in a good direction! Maybe one day I will be able to buy the food for my dinner all in the same store :lol:



Burloak said:


> They can't go in the left lane.
> https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900608
> This also includes the Kitchener area highway 7 and 8 that are freeways.
> 
> Some locations trucks have a bit of excuse (i.e. where a ramp joins in from the left and when it take a bit of time for the truck to safety make it out of the left lane), but I have seen them stretching this out for a bit longer than they should. But it is still rare that I see a truck in the left lane, or using the left to pass.


This is only where you have this sign posted though, when you have 3 lanes or more and no upcoming interchange with 2 through-lanes or less, you see the "cancellation of restriction" sign regularly. Truck is always allowed at least 2 lanes (this seems typical across Canada and most of USA... though in Europe on occasion you see "truck only on right lane" signs)
The one that pops up on QEW Hamilton around Walkers particularly sucks, because of the HOV lane, truck can use all the lanes...

Nothing quite as annoying as coming up on two trucks on a rural motorway like 401 while you are at 130-140, and one truck at 105.1 and other 104.9... I once spent 20+ minutes around Cornwall behind two of these idiots...


----------



## Burloak

Kanadzie said:


> Nothing quite as annoying as coming up on two trucks on a rural motorway like 401 while you are at 130-140, and one truck at 105.1 and other 104.9... I once spent 20+ minutes around Cornwall behind two of these idiots...


Don't blame that on the trucks, blame it on the idiots that brought in the law for mandatory governors at 105 +/-.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

These governors also impact trucking outside of Ontario and Québec. I've read they cannot be turned off, so if you have a trucking company and want to do business in Ontario or Québec, you are limited to 105 km/h - 65 mph across North America, even in states or provinces where you are legally allowed to drive faster.

A similar thing happened in Europe, the UK has a 60 mph (96 km/h) speed limit for trucks but a governor at 90 km/h is required to operate in the EU, so trucks can't drive the speed limit in the UK. 

It's interesting though, that 65 mph - 105 km/h is considered a low speed limit for trucks in North America, while speed limits are only 80 - 90 km/h in most European countries, in various cases even lower outside of the motorway system. Imagine driving from North Bay to Manitoba at 60 km/h...


----------



## Jschmuck

When I drove truck in the USA a couple years ago, the company I worked for had the cruise governor set at 60mph. But if you pushed on the accelerator pedal at 60mph you were allowed to accelerate to 63mph for passing purposes. The disincentive was every time you pushed the pedal past 60mph your quarterly bonus would be eaten away. Perhaps a similar situation could be created in that if a driver pushed on the pedal even while the governor was maxed out, that the driver could get a couple or few extra mph/kph over a certain amount of time. 

Example: cruise is set at 100kph, pedal is set at 105kph. But when the driver pushes on the pedal while at 105kph it is timed to last only say 5 minutes, then the vehicle goes back to 100kph. There could also be another timer in between each time the driver wants to push the pedal to 105kph. Meaning the next time the driver wants to accelerate to 105kph, the driver has to wait 20 minutes, before he/she regains the ability to go 105kph.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Kanadzie said:


> ....
> Ontario is such a tremendously weird place with this strong puritanical bent... but at least, something happening in a good direction! Maybe one day I will be able to buy the food for my dinner all in the same store :lol:


Like buying alcohol in Pennsylvania. Although I gather Ontario may be just as bad, or worse.

Alors tu regrettes avoir quitté Montréal ?


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> These governors also impact trucking outside of Ontario and Québec. I've read they cannot be turned off, so if you have a trucking company and want to do business in Ontario or Québec, you are limited to 105 km/h - 65 mph across North America, even in states or provinces where you are legally allowed to drive faster....


Whoa!

In the U.S., I think that would present a constitutional problem. Limitations by states on interstate commerce, which is a federal matter.

I don't mean Ontario and Quebec doing it is a constitutional problem (even as applied to truckers that want to do business in the U.S. as well), but if a state did it....


----------



## Kanadzie

The Canadian federal government is really weak on enforcing interprovincial trade barriers... there are many blatant examples and while they are effectively illegal under the constitution somehow they are allowed to go on. Lately in the news was a New Brunswick man who was fined and had goods seized after bringing a case of beer home from Quebec, despite the consitution clearly declaring "all goods or produce from any province shall be admitted freely to any other"



Penn's Woods said:


> Alors tu regrettes avoir quitté Montréal ?


parfois oui et parfois non! :cheers:


----------



## Penn's Woods

Kanadzie said:


> The Canadian federal government is really weak on enforcing interprovincial trade barriers... there are many blatant examples and while they are effectively illegal under the constitution somehow they are allowed to go on. Lately in the news was a New Brunswick man who was fined and had goods seized after bringing a case of beer home from Quebec, despite the consitution clearly declaring "all goods or produce from any province shall be admitted freely to any other"
> 
> 
> 
> parfois oui et parfois non! :cheers:




One can get the impression from comments on CBC Facebook posts that Alberta and British Columbia are on the verge of war.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> A similar thing happened in Europe, the UK has a 60 mph (96 km/h) speed limit for trucks but a governor at 90 km/h is required to operate in the EU, so trucks can't drive the speed limit in the UK.
> .


Couple of years ago (well, maybe a bit more than couple, when I still used to do some hitchhiking ) I heard from truck drivers that German trucking companies did their annual truck checks in Spain as they can set the limiter higher there than in Germany.

Now, I'm not sure if it was true or not, or if it still applies...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Alberta Highway 2*

An eight lane expansion on Highway 2 (QE II Highway) between Calgary and Airdrie might be on the table, according to a study reported on by CBC: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-transportation-study-north-1.5139714

It's a 10 kilometer section between Highway 201 (Stoney Trail) and Yankee Valley Boulevard in Airdrie. 

Airdrie is a fast growing 'suburb' of Calgary, growing from 20,000 people in 2001 to 62,000 in 2016. It's not directly interconnected with the urban area of Calgary, but is slightly north of the city.


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## Kanadzie

Lot of growth in that area. Yankee Valley interchange was rebuilt not long ago. There's also the "CrossIron Mills" mall in Balzac that has brought a lot of traffic to that road.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is a major wildfire in Northern Alberta near the town of High Level on Highway 35. The wildfire has already burned 80,000 hectares, making it a quite significant wildfire, CBC calls it the largest wildfire in that area in 80 years.

Highway 35 is closed south of High Level. High Level itself has been evacuated. This means there is no gas station operational for 630 kilometers between Red Earth Creek on Highway 88 in Alberta and Hay River in the Northwest Territories. 

>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/slave-lake-wildfire-evacuation-high-level-1.5143124

>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/no-gas-hay-river-to-red-earth-creek-1.5143825


----------



## Burloak

Kanadzie said:


> This is only where you have this sign posted though, when you have 3 lanes or more and no upcoming interchange with 2 through-lanes or less, you see the "cancellation of restriction" sign regularly. Truck is always allowed at least 2 lanes (this seems typical across Canada and most of USA... though in Europe on occasion you see "truck only on right lane" signs)
> The one that pops up on QEW Hamilton around Walkers particularly sucks, because of the HOV lane, truck can use all the lanes...


I suppose the logic is that if trucks are barred from the left lane (ignoring HOV), then are in the 3rd lane from the left at Guelph line. In 2km (on a very busy highway), they would have to move over 1 lane (and be allowed to move 2 lanes). This movement would likely be difficult in busy traffic, so the trucks were allowed to move over to the left lane (technically the 2nd lane from the left) 2 km earlier. 

I thought that this QEW at Walker line was unique. Maybe it's just because cars can't use the left HOV lane and trucks are in what seems to be a car only lane. The proper solution here should have been to cancel the HOV lane at Walker's. That way, trucks could get into lane 2 (2nd from left) and cars would still have the left lane.


----------



## hkskyline

*Fight over SNC-Lavalin highway stake to delay C$3.25 bln deal closing*
_Excerpt_

May 17 (Reuters) - A dispute between bidders for SNC-Lavalin Group's stake in a Canadian toll highway will delay the C$3.25 billion ($2.41 billion) sale after an original purchase agreement was scrapped, the Canadian construction and engineering company said on Friday.

Two shareholders in the Highway 407 toll road operator are trying to acquire SNC's 10.01% stake, with the dispute headed to Ontario Superior Court on June 21 to settle which one of them have the right of first refusal, SNC said in a statement.

SNC said it scrapped the C$3 billion sale of the stake, announced in April, to Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System (OMERS).

Canada Pension Plan Investment Board (CPPIB) and Cintra Global S.E., a unit of Spain's Ferrovial, both exercised their rights of first refusal to buy the stake under the same terms as the OMERS deal.

SNC shareholders have been closely watching the Highway 407 sale, which will be used to pay down debt, after the company reported a surprise quarterly loss earlier this month and said it would exit 15 countries. The Montreal-based company's stock has slipped 41% this year following souring relations between Saudi Arabia and Canada, headwinds in its metals and mining business and a political scandal engulfing Canada's prime minister.

The stake sale, due to close in early June, is now expected to be delayed for a few weeks.

SNC said the stake should go to CPPIB, arguing that Cintra agreed in 2002 to waive its right of first refusal over future sales of shares in Highway 407.

CPPIB, which has a 40% stake in Highway 407, declined to comment.

More : https://ca.reuters.com/article/idCAKCN1SN293-OCABS


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are now two very large wildfires in Northern Alberta, affecting transportation.

The High Level wildfire has grown from 150,000 to 230,000 hectares (2300 km²) overnight. It also jumped the Peace River, which is a major river. Officials say it is unusual for a wildfire to grow significantly over night. It doubled in size in the past 3 days. 230,000 hectares would make it one of the largest single wildfires in recent years. 

The High Level wildfire has a very large perimeter while there is almost no road access outside of the immediate area of High Level, making fire response difficult. Highway 35 is closed for pretty much the entire length, there is no traffic going to the Northwest Territories anymore due to a separate, smaller wildfire near Steen River in the far north. CN Rail reports a railway bridge has burned down in that area. 

Additionally, there is a 75,000 hectare wildfire northeast of Slave Lake. This town burned down in 2011 and is now put under an 8 hour evacuation alert due to the quick growth of this wildfire, which is expected to merge with several smaller wildfires in the area. 

Traffic between Edmonton and the Northwest Territories would have to detour via British Columbia, taking the Liard Highway, which is a 500 kilometer detour compared to the regular route through Northern Alberta. 

The Chuckegg Creek Wildfire is the official name for the wildfire near High Level. The McMillan Wildfire near Slave Lake is at the lower right.


----------



## Kanadzie

I'm not sure if it has been discussed here, but there is some action around the Red Hill Valley Parkway in Hamilton these days. It is a 6km long motorway that along with connecting "Lincoln Alexander Parkway" forms a bypass of Hamilton along its south side, and a shortcut between Detroit and Buffalo USA (connecting the QEW and Highway 403 to the west)

The road opened in 2007 with an annoying 90 km/h speed limit, narrow grass median and relatively curvy. There have been relatively high number of deadly crashes of cars going across to the other side.

The city had a test report in 2013 saying the asphalt had a lower than expected friction coefficient, compared to some standard from "the UK". It has some validity - some dumb woman in a Honda crashed into my car at a traffic jam some years ago when the road was only slightly damp.

The report was shelved but accidentally re-discovered in 2018 resulting in lawsuits and an immediate reduction of speed limit to 80 :bash: and police hiding every day.

Now the road is being repaved. They closed one direction of the road (for approx 3 weeks) and then will do the other side.
It means traffic chaos for me, hooray :lol:

Some news stories with background:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/red-hill-1.5018949
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/red-hill-valley-parkway-1.5065126
https://globalnews.ca/news/5244586/red-hill-valley-parkway-resurfacing-may-21/

City website with updates and plan:
http://hamilton.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Cascade/index.html?appid=058e9f22f00041fe8a1d3cdeea22d51a

Sadly the project is only a repavement of the road and not the "phase 2" which would change the 4-lane, narrow grassy median to a 6 lane, concrete median design (and probably solve the safety issue).


----------



## Burloak

Kanadzie said:


> I'm not sure if it has been discussed here, but there is some action around the Red Hill Valley Parkway in Hamilton these days. It is a 6km long motorway that along with connecting "Lincoln Alexander Parkway" forms a bypass of Hamilton along its south side, and a shortcut between Detroit and Buffalo USA (connecting the QEW and Highway 403 to the west)
> 
> The road opened in 2007 with an annoying 90 km/h speed limit, narrow grass median and relatively curvy. There have been relatively high number of deadly crashes of cars going across to the other side.
> 
> The city had a test report in 2013 saying the asphalt had a lower than expected friction coefficient, compared to some standard from "the UK". It has some validity - some dumb woman in a Honda crashed into my car at a traffic jam some years ago when the road was only slightly damp.
> 
> The report was shelved but accidentally re-discovered in 2018 resulting in lawsuits and an immediate reduction of speed limit to 80 :bash: and police hiding every day.
> 
> Now the road is being repaved. They closed one direction of the road (for approx 3 weeks) and then will do the other side.
> It means traffic chaos for me, hooray :lol:
> 
> Some news stories with background:
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/red-hill-1.5018949
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/red-hill-valley-parkway-1.5065126
> https://globalnews.ca/news/5244586/red-hill-valley-parkway-resurfacing-may-21/
> 
> City website with updates and plan:
> http://hamilton.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Cascade/index.html?appid=058e9f22f00041fe8a1d3cdeea22d51a
> 
> Sadly the project is only a repavement of the road and not the "phase 2" which would change the 4-lane, narrow grassy median to a 6 lane, concrete median design (and probably solve the safety issue).


This highway (or actually both the Red Hill Creek Expressway and the Lincoln Alexander Parkway) appears to be the municipal freeway that serves the greatest numbers in terms of provincial traffic*. Has there been any talk of uploading this to the province and having them do whatever upgrades are required? 

* - I would say the Gardiner Expressway and Don Valley Parkway combination in Toronto serves a Regional function and not provincial - even though I can see the argument for uploading this combination as well. Either these entire freeways should be uploaded, or not, but the least logical option was the situation before 1997 - when a short portion of the Gardiner from Humber River to Highway 427 belonged to the Province (QEW) and the rest was municipal.


----------



## isaidso

I'd always wondered why some people called it the QEW and others the Gardiner. So when does it stop being called the QEW? When it reaches Hamilton?


----------



## Burloak

isaidso said:


> I'd always wondered why some people called it the QEW and others the Gardiner. So when does it stop being called the QEW? When it reaches Hamilton?


The QEW starts in Fort Erie at the Peace Bridge. Highways in Ontario have kilometers measure from West to East or South to North. The QEW continues past Niagara Falls, through St. Catharines, to Hamilton, and then continues to high 427 (the end). Previously it kept going another few kilometers to Humber River, where there was a monument (that's since been moved into an adjacent park)










Originally, QEW started as the Toronto-Hamilton Highway to take the load off Lakeshore Road (highway 2). It was built from the early to mid 1930's. It connected to another highway - the Burlington-Niagara highway. The highway from Toronto to Niagara falls got the name QEW in 1939, in honour of the Queen at the time (current Queen Elizabeth II's mother). It was completed to Fort Erie a couple of years later. There is good information on this website (https://www.thekingshighway.ca/Queen_Elizabeth_Way.htm ) 

In the early 1990's, Highway 403 was completed and the portion from the Ford Plant to Burlington became co-signed as QEW/403 (https://www.thekingshighway.ca/Highway403.htm) .


----------



## Kanadzie

Probably super wide left shoulder and HOV buffer like QEW has in Halton
It seems really wasteful of space


----------



## sonysnob

Abhishek901 said:


> Why not do that right now while they are at it? All the outer lanes are already paved. Will they un-pave the outermost lane now or make it a really wide shoulder?


My guess is downstream capacity. If they widened the 404 to five lanes, imagine how much longer the queue would be approaching the 401/DVP interchange every morning.


----------



## Burloak

Abhishek901 said:


> The space looks wide enough for 2 lanes each side with shoulders.


*I'd guess your looking at:*
a 10500 mm construction zone.
600 mm temporary concrete barrier. (TCB)
300 mm left shoulder.
3 @ 3500 mm lanes. 
600 mm right shoulder. 
22500 total. 

*After Construction*. 
3000 mm left shoulder 
3750 mm HOV. 
1250 mm Buffer. 
3 @ 3750 mm lanes. 
3000 mm right shoulder. 
3250 mm right shoulder (250 larger than it needs to be). 
22500 total. 

With 5 lanes, they'd need 2500+3500 (left lane)[email protected]+3000=24000 mm 
(an extra 1500mm needed)


----------



## Burloak

Kanadzie said:


> Probably super wide left shoulder and HOV buffer like QEW has in Halton
> It seems really wasteful of space


It's not quite this simple, but an HOV lane carries about 800 vehicles per hour. I think HOT has maybe 1200. General lanes carry 2000. 

Thus, 3 +HOV carries 6800 vehicles. 
Thus, 3 +HOT carries 7200 vehicles, or 6% more. 
4 lanes would carry 8000 vehicles. (it would be 1.5m, or 7%, narrower and have 18% more capacity). 
5 lanes would carry 10,000 vehicles. (it would be 1.5m, or 7% wider and have 47% more capacity).


----------



## sonysnob

Burloak said:


> *I'd guess your looking at:*
> a 10500 mm construction zone.
> 600 mm temporary concrete barrier. (TCB)
> 300 mm left shoulder.
> 3 @ 3500 mm lanes.
> 600 mm right shoulder.
> 22500 total.
> 
> *After Construction*.
> 3000 mm left shoulder
> 3750 mm HOV.
> 1250 mm Buffer.
> 3 @ 3750 mm lanes.
> 3000 mm right shoulder.
> 3250 mm right shoulder (250 larger than it needs to be).
> 22500 total.
> 
> With 5 lanes, they'd need 2500+3500 (left lane)[email protected]+3000=24000 mm
> (an extra 1500mm needed)


I'm guessing that the cross-section was originally designed for a:

3000 mm left shoulder
3500 mm left lane
3750 x4 other lanes
3000 mm right shoulder

So, adding the HOV lane adds about 1.5 m to the highways cross-section. If they were to ever want to go to five lanes per direction, they should be able to accommodate that cross-section underneath the existing bridges with either some slope paving revisions or just some simple shoulder narrowing.


----------



## Kanadzie

Burloak said:


> It's not quite this simple, but an HOV lane carries about 800 vehicles per hour. I think HOT has maybe 1200. General lanes carry 2000.
> 
> Thus, 3 +HOV carries 6800 vehicles.
> Thus, 3 +HOT carries 7200 vehicles, or 6% more.
> 4 lanes would carry 8000 vehicles. (it would be 1.5m, or 7%, narrower and have 18% more capacity).
> 5 lanes would carry 10,000 vehicles. (it would be 1.5m, or 7% wider and have 47% more capacity).


exactly... just a political mess to "greenwash" while we all sit stuck in the queue for hours every day idling away (even in the HOV quite regularly)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

HOV 3+ eliminates most 'family carpool' travel from that lane, which is why HOV lane usage drops substantially if the threshold is moved up from 2 to 3 people. In some cases this may be warranted as the HOV lanes become overloaded with family travelers, like in Los Angeles.


----------



## sonysnob

There are parts of California where vanpools are very popular. I know they are popular for a lot of companies in the Silicon Valley. HOV lanes may make sense in those cases, but subjectively, in my opinion, they've never seemed all that useful in southern Ontario


----------



## sonysnob

Autoroute 20 near Rimouski:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/20/A20_dv_606_east_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/20/A20_dv_608_east_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/20/A20_dv_613-9_east_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/20/A20_dv_617_east_Sep17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/20/A20_dv_627_east_Sep17_24x16.jpg


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Greater Toronto Area West Highway Corridor*

*Ontario Resumes Environmental Assessment for Greater Toronto Area West Highway Corridor*

*Government for the people to examine long-term transportation needs across York, Peel and Halton Regions*

The Ontario government is making life easier for commuters by resuming the Environmental Assessment (EA) for the Greater Toronto Area West Corridor to improve Ontario's highway network, reduce travel times and help alleviate traffic congestion across the GTA. 

Jeff Yurek, Minister of Transportation was joined by Amarjot Sandhu, MPP for Brampton West to announce that the government is resuming the EA at the point it left off in 2015. This comes after a motion was passed in the legislature on June 4, 2019 calling on the government to immediately resume the EA.

The EA is anticipated to be completed by the end of 2022.​
Full press release: https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2019...eater-toronto-area-west-highway-corridor.html


----------



## Balkanada

The reconstructed *Champlain Bridge* in Montreal. Northbound lanes are open to traffic today (June 24th) and southbound lanes will open to traffic on July 1st










 

Source: allo40 on Reddit


----------



## Penn's Woods

Was the Champlain ever (like, 30 years ago) a toll bridge, or is my memory wrong?


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ yes, from construction until 1991.
The toll booths were removed but the central "office building" remained in the median on Nun's Island until either just now or maybe, still there (the JCCBI bridge operator's offices are inside)


----------



## hkskyline

Abhishek901 said:


> What's the construction progress of this bridge?


Opened!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/samuel-de-champlain-bridge-opening-day-montreal-1.5185680


----------



## Penn's Woods

Quebec Government has announced a tunnel under the Saint Lawrence downstream of Quebec City. Connecting the eastern end of Autoroute 40 with a point on the south shore.
Article in French, but there’s a map:
https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1201031/trace-3e-lien-francois-bonnardel-ile-dorleans


----------



## Kanadzie

Totally insane move driven by local politics somehow infecting the province...
there is this "ile d'Orleans" connected to north shore only by rickety old bridge needing serious repairs. Inhabitants of the island want bridge, but only a minimal one to avoid the area becoming urbanized. Area is the best place for a third crossing, since it is not near the existing ones, and you have an island that you can run a road on surface. 

But no, they will make a tunnel (!) under the river and the island without any connection to the island, so the rickety bridge needs to continue to be maintained or replaced :lol:

It is kind of duplicating the situation on a similar island, ile Bizard in the Montreal area, connected only by a small, collapsing municipal bridge to Montreal island, but with the original plan, and dedicated right of way for highway 440 to cross...


----------



## Penn's Woods

Kanadzie said:


> Totally insane move driven by local politics somehow infecting the province...
> there is this "ile d'Orleans" connected to north shore only by rickety old bridge needing serious repairs. Inhabitants of the island want bridge, but only a minimal one to avoid the area becoming urbanized. Area is the best place for a third crossing, since it is not near the existing ones, and you have an island that you can run a road on surface.
> 
> But no, they will make a tunnel (!) under the river and the island without any connection to the island, so the rickety bridge needs to continue to be maintained or replaced :lol:
> 
> It is kind of duplicating the situation on a similar island, ile Bizard in the Montreal area, connected only by a small, collapsing municipal bridge to Montreal island, but with the original plan, and dedicated right of way for highway 440 to cross...




Can’t they prevent urbanization in other ways? I’ve been to the île d’Orléans a few times...just to drive around it...it -is- nice....


----------



## annman

^^ Why don't they just institute an urban growth boundary around Québec, and connect the island? Sort out ageing infrastructure and keep most of the island's rural character.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ I think actually it already is growth-blocked by Quebec's provincially-run land use policies, as well with many areas around Quebec city. So I don't really know what the argument is about...


----------



## sonysnob

^ While I don't disagree with the principle of what you are saying, it is worth noting that any prospective future government can, at their discretion, reverse any provincial land use or land protection strategy.

Ontario's provincial greenbelt was evaluated for changes by our recently elected government and was only saved due to significant public outcry.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

London, Ontario is probably the largest city in North America with a similar name to a major city in Europe. The other North American Paris's Montréal's, Berlin's, Hanovers, and Charleroi's are much smaller. 

Another larger North American city with a large counterpart in Europe is Birmingham (Alabama vs. UK).

London, Ontario has a population of 384,000. 

This one makes Dutch people laugh.


DSC_0709 by Ian Ligget, on Flickr


----------



## Cricket_Fan

sonysnob said:


> ^ The government posted a consultant assignment to qualify a design-build partner for the entire distance of the 401 between Tilbury and London a month or so ago.


Any idea when the tender might happen, or is that still too far off? I'd be surprised if they do the entire distance as one contract though. They could widen the recently reconstructed sections much faster than the remaining sections, so that's a low hanging fruit IMO.

As for Highway 24 to Townline, I remember federal government had committed quite a bit of funding for that.. hopefully that project is not dead and worst case starts next year.


----------



## sonysnob

Cricket_Fan said:


> Any idea when the tender might happen, or is that still too far off? I'd be surprised if they do the entire distance as one contract though. They could widen the recently reconstructed sections much faster than the remaining sections, so that's a low hanging fruit IMO.
> 
> As for Highway 24 to Townline, I remember federal government had committed quite a bit of funding for that.. hopefully that project is not dead and worst case starts next year.


I would be very surprised if they tendered all of the 401 widening as one contract. That seems like it would be too large a contract for a single contractor to take on at one time. Because it's going as a design-build contract, it will be up to the design consultant to tender individual contracts once they are ready to go for construction. Design-build contracts don't get tendered separately by the MTO.

Where did you see that Hespeler to Townline received federal funding?


----------



## Cricket_Fan

sonysnob said:


> I would be very surprised if they tendered all of the 401 widening as one contract. That seems like it would be too large a contract for a single contractor to take on at one time.


Correct, that makes sense. In any case, do you have any idea what the next step would be, and how far off are we from getting at least one of the contracts tendered?



sonysnob said:


> Because it's going as a design-build contract, it will be up to the design consultant to tender individual contracts once they are ready to go for construction. Design-build contracts don't get tendered separately by the MTO.


This matches my experience as well. The design-build contracts get posted on their tender website (https://www.raqs.merx.com/public/bulletin/bulletin.jsf) but it appears they don't get bid on like other cotnracts.



> Where did you see that Hespeler to Townline received federal funding?


I vaguely remember reading about this in the news about 1-2 years ago. Here's what I could find online: https://www.canadianmanufacturing.c...401-in-cambridge-from-six-lanes-to-10-182963/

(Read the 2nd last paragraph)


----------



## sonysnob

Cricket_Fan said:


> Correct, that makes sense. In any case, do you have any idea what the next step would be, and how far off are we from getting at least one of the contracts tendered?


Correct? Um, I'm the one that told you about this project. I'm sure it was unintentional, but writing 'correct' makes it sound like you are talking down to me on a project that _I_ told _you_ about.

I don't know when they'd start construction. My guess would be either 2020 or 2021.


----------



## Cricket_Fan

sonysnob said:


> Correct? Um, I'm the one that told you about this project. I'm sure it was unintentional, but writing 'correct' makes it sound like you are talking down to me on a project that _I_ told _you_ about.


I think you are misunderstanding me, and I apologize if it came across differently. By saying "correct", I was merely agreeing with you. It was not meant to imply that I was that I was talking down. I was also agreeing on whether or not the contract would be split into multiple contracts.


----------



## Kanadzie

ChrisZwolle said:


> London, Ontario is probably the largest city in North America with a similar name to a major city in Europe. The other North American Paris's Montréal's, Berlin's, Hanovers, and Charleroi's are much smaller.
> r


Montreal 

London is amusing since everything around there is also like that. There's the Thames River, and nearby are Paris and Delhi, few minutes on 401 and 402 you travel the whole world :lol:


----------



## Burloak

ChrisZwolle said:


> London, Ontario is probably the largest city in North America with a similar name to a major city in Europe. The other North American Paris's Montréal's, Berlin's, Hanovers, and Charleroi's are much smaller.
> 
> Another larger North American city with a large counterpart in Europe is Birmingham (Alabama vs. UK).
> 
> London, Ontario has a population of 384,000.


That's always been a question I pondered. 

What is the largest city in the world - that has a city with the same name that is larger? 

I assumed London would win this title as well - although I have never spent any effort to confirm it.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Kanadzie said:


> Montreal
> 
> London is amusing since everything around there is also like that. There's the Thames River, and nearby are Paris and Delhi, few minutes on 401 and 402 you travel the whole world :lol:




And Kitchener used to be Berlin!


----------



## Penn's Woods

Burloak said:


> That's always been a question I pondered.
> 
> 
> 
> What is the largest city in the world - that has a city with the same name that is larger?
> 
> 
> 
> I assumed London would win this title as well - although I have never spent any effort to confirm it.




Somewhere in South America (Venezuela I think) there’s a Barcelona. No idea how big it is, though. Also Cartagena’s in Colombia and Spain.

If you go by metropolitan area rather than city proper, Birmingham, Alabama, is larger than London, Ont.

EDIT: Just thought of Córdoba, Argentina. Population over a million. How big is the one in Spain?


----------



## Abhishek901

Kanadzie said:


> Montreal
> 
> London is amusing since everything around there is also like that. There's the Thames River, and nearby are Paris and Delhi, few minutes on 401 and 402 you travel the whole world :lol:


There's Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne and Brisbane too in Ontario.


----------



## ssiguy2

There is also a Dresden, Moscow, Delhi, Cambridge, Hannover, Warsaw, and a Vienna in Ontario and a Sydney in NS.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Penn's Woods said:


> Somewhere in South America (Venezuela I think) there’s a Barcelona. No idea how big it is, though. Also Cartagena’s in Colombia and Spain.
> 
> If you go by metropolitan area rather than city proper, Birmingham, Alabama, is larger than London, Ont.
> 
> EDIT: Just thought of Córdoba, Argentina. Population over a million. How big is the one in Spain?


These cities in South America are in fact considerably larger than their European namesakes 

Valencia in Venezuela has almost three times as much population as the original Valencia in Spain. While such a population factor is common in the 'New World', few of those are also large cities in Europe. Most of the time their namesakes in Europe are just small towns where people migrated from during the _conquista_.


----------



## kostas97

Why do these signs have distances in miles? Isn't Canada using the metric system?


----------



## Penn's Woods

kostas97 said:


> Why do these signs have distances in miles? Isn't Canada using the metric system?




The Amsterdam and Rotterdam sign? That’s in the U.S. Specifically New York state, a little west of Albany.

I guess we got off topic...,


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> These cities in South America are in fact considerably larger than their European namesakes
> 
> 
> 
> Valencia in Venezuela has almost three times as much population as the original Valencia in Spain. While such a population factor is common in the 'New World', few of those are also large cities in Europe. Most of the time their namesakes in Europe are just small towns where people migrated from during the _conquista_.




So then is Valencia in Spain the largest city in the world that has a city larger than it with the same name?


----------



## Kanadzie

Penn's Woods said:


> And Kitchener used to be Berlin!


don't forget the nearby town of Breslau :cheers:


----------



## Burloak

Penn's Woods said:


> So then is Valencia in Spain the largest city in the world that has a city larger than it with the same name?


Thanks. 
To close this out, it's 789,000 for Valencia Spain and 888,000 for Valencia Venezuela.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Kanadzie said:


> don't forget the nearby town of Breslau :cheers:




:O

*Wrocław


----------



## kostas97

Penn's Woods said:


> The Amsterdam and Rotterdam sign? That’s in the U.S. Specifically New York state, a little west of Albany.
> 
> I guess we got off topic...,


Oh, i didn't notice that, alright then, now it makes sense


----------



## Haljackey

Every road in Ontario.

Image too large to be posted here

Interesting comments on Reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/duplicates/ce35is/road_map_of_ontario/


----------



## sonysnob

Some photos of the 407 extension in eastern Durham Region:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_135-25_west_t_Jul19_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_135-25_east_c_Jul19_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_135-5_west_t_Jul19_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_135-5_east_w_Jul19_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_139_west_t_Jul19_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_139_east_w_Jul19_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_146_west_t_Jul19_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_146_east_t_Jul19_24x16.jpg


----------



## highwayfan1232

sonysnob said:


> Some photos of the 407 extension in eastern Durham Region:


Nice photos bro. Great job. Could the 407 east to 115 open by the end of this year?


----------



## xzmattzx

Is Highway 115 between Highway 407 and Highway 35 going to be upgraded to an expressway once 407 is done?


----------



## sonysnob

xzmattzx said:


> Is Highway 115 between Highway 407 and Highway 35 going to be upgraded to an expressway once 407 is done?


No, there aren't any dramatic plans for the 35/115.

There is a resurfacing contract coming for the 35/115 southerly from Highway 35 to Orono coming up in the next few years which will have some operational improvements for the highway, but won't include anything drastic.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

There is currently an EA underway for the 35/115 interchange where the two highways split, but I imagine it isn’t planned to be built any time soon.

35/115 generally operates pretty well, MTO is better off spending its money where capacity needs it.

As for when it opens, officially the scheduled date is “2020” but given the state of the highway I wouldn’t be surprised if it is this year. If not, very early 2020.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The bridge of the 401 over Ojibway Parkway in Windsor, Ontario. This will lead to the new Gordie Howe Bridge to Detroit.


----------



## isaidso

sonysnob said:


> Some photos of the 407 extension in eastern Durham Region:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_146_west_t_Jul19_24x16.jpg


Is that the CN Tower in the distance?


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Yup. That’s a pretty good distance away too - probably 70-80km.


----------



## sonysnob

isaidso said:


> Is that the CN Tower in the distance?


Yeah, you can see the CN tower from quite a few locations along the 407 extension.


----------



## Haljackey

Great video of the Sea-To-Sky Highway in BC by Trans-Canada Phil.


----------



## Haljackey

Unlisted video showing drone footage of the 427 extension


----------



## highwayfan1232

Yesterday, I filmed the Highway 418 and Durham Highway 2 Interchange: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jxurfQJyQc


----------



## Langeveldt

Is this the 401? Very unfamiliar with Canada... Very impressed though


----------



## sonysnob

^ That's the 400 looking north. The cloverleaf interchange in the middle of the photo is between the 400 and Finch Avenue.


----------



## hkskyline

*Government of Canada invests in transportation infrastructure improvements in Nunavut*
_Excerpt_

IQALUIT, Aug. 13, 2019 /CNW/ - The Government of Canada supports infrastructure projects that create quality middle-class jobs and boost economic growth. Enhancing the northern transportation system supports and promotes economic growth and social development, offers job opportunities, ensures greater connectivity for Northerners, increases its resilience to a changing climate, and ensures that it can adapt to innovative technologies.

Today, the Honourable Marc Garneau, Minister of Transport, announced a major investment of $71.7 million for four projects that will improve transportation safety and accessibility for Arctic and Northern communities.

The projects are:

*$45.5 million to accommodate increased passenger volumes and support carrier operations by renovating the Rankin Inlet Airport Terminal Building. Two wings will be added to the existing terminal, increasing its capacity to more than four times its current size.

*$21.5 million to complete preparatory work necessary for the first phase of construction of the Grays Bay Road and Port Project. The proposed 230 kilometre all-season road would be the first road to connect Nunavut to the rest of Canada.

*$4.5 million to study and design an all-season road that will improve connectivity for the communities in the Kivalliq region that currently rely on air transportation. The 450 kilometre all‐weather road will enable economic and social opportunities by providing Kivalliq communities access to the benefits of jet service and cargo capacity of the Rankin Inlet Airport, and access to higher-frequency sealift operations.

More : https://www.newswire.ca/news-releas...ucture-improvements-in-nunavut-846006032.html


----------



## ssiguy2

All this in a massive territory with only 38,000 people dispersed in hamlets across the North. Good thing I don't have a suspicious mind or I would think this might have something to do the government throwing money around because there is a federal election just 2 months away.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ This route will not actually serve any population centers, but will connect various mining operations and a new deep-sea port at the Grays Bay.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

The Ontario government will be moving forward with the “Bradford Bypass”, a 16km freeway connecting the 400 with the 404 north of Bradford. Contrary to its name it would primarily service new development in Holland Landing and Queensville, as well as relieving traffic in Newmarket using local roads to cut between the two freeways.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/5776696/ontario-government-approves-bradford-bypass/amp/


----------



## Kanadzie

wow

it is I figure a good development, the connectivity between 400 and 404 is terrible in this region. But I question if a motorway is most necessary, even a proper 2-lane throu8gh highway would be a significant improvement
but I think probably would be better served by something closer to Toronto that could be extended in either direction


----------



## Haljackey

It will be a marathon project to do all of this in 3 years.

My guess is that this project may not involve much rework of the existing highway? Both the Hurontario and Mavis 401 contracts have completely rebuilt the roadbed of the 401.

Perhaps for this project this isn't included? That would save time. All you really need to do is repave and repaint the highway for that inner HOV right?

I'd hope as soon as this project is done 10-laning work will start between Cambridge and Milton. That will give ya a HOV lane stretching all the way from Highway 8 to the 403/410. Maybe 2025 at the earliest for that?


----------



## smokiboy

Hey, does anyone know what is going on in the westbound lanes of the QEW at the Etobicoke Creek overpass? Looks like they are building a new bridge adjacent to the existing QEW for use from the West Mall entrance to the QEW. Which I gather would extend into a new service road connecting with the existing one towards Dixie Road. Is that right?


----------



## sonysnob

They are just replacing the existing bridge with a new bridge. The central span of the QEW over Etobicoke Creek dates back to the 1930s, so it needs to be replaced for structural reasons.


----------



## smokiboy

Thanks.

Too bad. I was hoping for a new two lane bridge to alleviate some of the heavy traffic coming from the 427 and West Mall.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Phase 1 is just the bridge replacement, but phase 2 is a rebuild of the Dixie road interchange which includes adding a westbound lane out to Cawthra, which should help with traffic a bit.


----------



## highwayfan1232

https://globalnews.ca/news/5980660/407-extension-to-clarington-on-track-2020/


----------



## Cricket_Fan

Haljackey said:


> It will be a marathon project to do all of this in 3 years.
> 
> My guess is that this project may not involve much rework of the existing highway? Both the Hurontario and Mavis 401 contracts have completely rebuilt the roadbed of the 401.
> 
> Perhaps for this project this isn't included? That would save time. All you really need to do is repave and repaint the highway for that inner HOV right?
> 
> I'd hope as soon as this project is done 10-laning work will start between Cambridge and Milton. That will give ya a HOV lane stretching all the way from Highway 8 to the 403/410. Maybe 2025 at the earliest for that?


If they don't have to reconstruct the existing carriageway then that will certainly help with the timeline. All the recent widening projects have involved reconstructing the existing carriageway, so who knows.

I am also not clear on all the bridges that need widening or replacement. As per project website (http://401expansion-mississauga-milton.ca/about-this-project/) I count 9 bridges to be replaced or widened, but I thought they had already done the 6th line bridges in another contract. But even if those are already done, that still leaves 7 bridges.

As for 10 lanes between Cambridge and Milton, I believe the only planned work in that regard is 10-laning between the highway 6 interchanges, and from Highway 24 to Townline. That still leaves about 30 km to be widened. The current provincial government is too unpredictable to bet any money on this happening anytime soon. I guess we'll see after they (inevitably) get voted out in 2022.


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## sonysnob

Alternative design contracts are typically run faster than individual contracts that are parsed out by the government. I'd assume that the existing carriageway will be replaced, it's just that because the financing will come from a government backed lender instead of through a normal budgeting process the contractor will be able to spend more money, more quickly than if the contract were to be budgeted through conventional means.

Three years is tight through with traffic staging. They'll have to pretty much get both the Creditview Road overpass and Credit River Bridge constructed almost within the first year to get that done in three.

*edited to add*
It’s also possible the contractor doesn’t make the three year construction timeline. Both the 407 extension and Phase 1 of the 407 extension were delivered behind schedule. In the case of the 401 extension through Windsor, it was delivered a year late by Amico, the same contractor that will be constructing the project between Milton and Mississauga.


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## Cricket_Fan

I'd love to see it happen in 3 years. Since it's not a conventional contract, I suppose there is more likelihood it could be done in 3 years. I can't remember a project of this scale that involves traffic staging of this scale (there's highway 69, but the existing highway is only 2 lanes, so much more manageable).


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## Burloak

sonysnob said:


> They are just replacing the existing bridge with a new bridge. The central span of the QEW over Etobicoke Creek dates back to the 1930s, so it needs to be replaced for structural reasons.


Basically, the left lane (and left shoulder) in each direction is currently being carried by the 1932 bridge. 
The next 2 lanes (lane 2 and 3) in each direction are carried by a 1953 widening. 
The next 2 lanes on north (on ramps from 427 and West Mall) and 1 lane on south (off ramp to 427) are carried by a 1967 widening. 

The entire bridge is being replaced. To maintain lanes during construction, the bridge will become about 8m wider (all towards the north).


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## sonysnob

Up to date (as of Tuesday) photo of the 401 through the Mavis Road interchange. This photo looks easterly from the Creditview Road overpass:









Full resolution: http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_337_east_EB_Oct8-19_24x16.jpg


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## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 1, Saanich, BC*

A new overpass of McKenzie Avenue over Highway 1 in Saanich, British Columbia has opened to traffic yesterday. It is part of a project to replace an intersection with a grade-separated interchange. Evidently the project isn't completed until mid-2020, but there is grade-separation now, turning about a 9 kilometer segment of Highway 1 to a low-standard freeway between Saanich and Langford on Vancouver Island (suburban Victoria).

CBC reports: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...ange-new-opening-traffic-bottleneck-1.5316945


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## ChrisZwolle

*Halifax, NS*

The reconstructed interchange between Highways 102 and 103 in Halifax, Nova Scotia opens to traffic on 14 October. The original interchange dates back to 1963.

Article: https://www.halifaxtoday.ca/local-n...d-overpass-will-open-on-monday-update-1743298


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## ChrisZwolle

*Regina, SK*

The new highway numbering around Regina, tied to the new Regina Bypass that will open later this month.

So Highway 1 (Trans-Canada) follows the new southern bypass while Highway 11 will be routed on the new western bypass. I would say this makes sense.


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## Penn's Woods

History, from my Facebook feed.

https://montrealgazette.com/news/lo...Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1572261830


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## ChrisZwolle

*Regina Bypass*

*Regina Bypass Increases Safety For Saskatchewan Families And Communities*

_Released on October 28, 2019_

The Government of Saskatchewan is pleased to announce the completion of the Regina Bypass. The largest transportation infrastructure project in the province’s history opens this week, on time and on budget.

A ceremony was held today on the Bypass to mark the opening. Crews will complete a few finishing touches today before the route opens to traffic tomorrow. The Bypass will boost the provincial economy through the efficient movement of goods, reduce traffic congestion and improve safety.​
Full press release: https://www.saskatchewan.ca/government/news-and-media/2019/october/28/bypass-open


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## sonysnob

I took some photos of the 401/418 interchange last evening in Clarington Township. Construction is progressing well on Ontario's newest 400-series highway.









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/418_cl_0-5_south_SB_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/418_cl_0-5_south_NB_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/418_cl_0-5_north_c_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/418_cl_0-5_north_NB_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg


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## highwayfan1232

sonysnob said:


> I took some photos of the 401/418 interchange last evening in Clarington Township. Construction is progressing well on Ontario's newest 400-series highway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/418_cl_0-5_south_SB_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/418_cl_0-5_south_NB_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/418_cl_0-5_north_c_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/418_cl_0-5_north_NB_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg


Nice photos, but I think this highway would be underused when opened.


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## sonysnob

A few recent views of the 401 through Mississauga.

Looking westerly from the pedestrian overpass:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_339_west_WB_w_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_339_west_WB_t_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg

Easterly view towards Mavis Road:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_339_east_EB_w_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg

Westerly view from Mavis Road:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_340_west_WB_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg

Easterly view from Mavis Road:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_340_east_c_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg

The newly installed COMPASS sign omits that the ramp also goes to the 403 now:








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_343_east_C_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg


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## highwayfan1232

sonysnob said:


> A few recent views of the 401 through Mississauga.
> 
> Looking westerly from the pedestrian overpass:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_339_west_WB_w_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_339_west_WB_t_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg
> 
> Easterly view towards Mavis Road:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_339_east_EB_w_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg
> 
> Westerly view from Mavis Road:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_340_west_WB_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg
> 
> Easterly view from Mavis Road:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_340_east_c_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg
> 
> The newly installed COMPASS sign omits that the ramp also goes to the 403 now:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_343_east_C_Oct28-19_24x16.jpg


Good progress!


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## hkskyline

I would have thought the miners need access and the tax revenues from all those diamonds flowing out can easily justify the cost.


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## Haljackey

Burloak said:


> Too bad the current government cut back this highway. They just don't seem to care about areas of the country that depend on resources. It does seem as a territory, they should not have to go through Yukon to get to Inuvik - which is an important hub for servicing many of the remote communities.


Oh no the government does care. Arctic development/sovereignty is a huge issue for Canada.

Building roads, even 2 lane gravel roads, this far north in permafrost is an expensive engineering challenge. The area is so remote that the need for such a route needs to be justified... there needs to be some sort of significant strategic and/or economic benefit to construct such a route. 

I'd love to see another link to Inuvik. Yes the Dempster highway isn't direct but it was likely the easiest route to build and had a lot of economic development benefit for resource extraction. 

You also can't just build a road, you need services/facilities to maintain it and provide rest/fuel stops for drivers. Thus you need power/sewage infrastructure, communications, etc. It all adds up!
-The route extension to Tuk made since as there was a community at either end.

I'd love to see this at least half-built for now, then extended to meet up with the Dempster.


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## ChrisZwolle

These things need some kind of different funding source. If they have to compete with funding for projects down in the provinces, it'll never be built.


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## Innsertnamehere

they usually don't really compete on the same level. Those types of projects get funding as more strategic nation building, aboriginal reconciliation, and sovereignty projects than anything.

The rise of global climate change is having a huge impact on Northern Canada as well. Average temperatures in the winter have already risen something like 4 degrees Celsius. This is making roads like this even more necessary as old ice road routes cannot be relied on as much with the season getting shorter and shorter, and with permafrost melting, making them more expensive to build.

The remoteness of them is also nearly incomprehensible. We are talking about dirt roads with not a single resident on them for literally hundreds of km.. its hard to picture coming from more populated parts of the planet. Even for me thinking of what I'm familiar with as "backcountry" being the woods in Northern Ontario... its nothing compared to how remote and dangerously cold these areas are.


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## Haljackey

Because these are in the territories, they do not compete with provinces for funding and what not. These are federal initiatives and get a separate funding pool.



Innsertnamehere said:


> The rise of global climate change is having a huge impact on Northern Canada as well. Average temperatures in the winter have already risen something like 4 degrees Celsius. This is making roads like this even more necessary as old ice road routes cannot be relied on as much with the season getting shorter and shorter, and with permafrost melting, making them more expensive to build


The warming Arctic is actually going to have a disastrous impact for these roads too. As these are built on top of permafrost, the entire gravel surface will have to be continuously maintained as the ground melts.

If you don't regularly top up the gravel, the whole road will simply sink and become a pile of mud so deep it's impassible. The sheer weight of the gravel / vehicles might be enough to create massive sinkholes around the route.

The tundra is going to become a massive mix of mud and swamp. Can't really do anything there outside of the winter months, if at all.


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## ChrisZwolle

A new season of 'Heavy Rescue: 401' will air in 2020, starting January 7:



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1206987115587948544


----------



## lambersart2005

Boxing Day madness in Montréal  
Half of the 15/440 interchange is blocked due to shoppers at Carrefour Laval. Also a nice example of where cloverleafs have their limits.

Quartier dix30, Galeries d’Anjou, Place Rosemère... all the same.


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## highwayfan1232

I just filmed the Highway 407 east extension to Highway 35/115 and Highway 418: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG7H4UU0VJM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mkz8B_n6NUo&t=214s


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## hkskyline

Dec 23, 2019
CBC _Excerpt_
*B.C. mayor calling for internet access on stretch of Vancouver Island highway*

The mayor of Ucluelet, B.C., is calling for wireless internet to be installed along a stretch of highway that connects the west coast community to the rest of Vancouver Island.

Mayor Mayco Noel says ongoing upgrades on Highway 4 are forcing residents to sit in their vehicles for long stretches of time with no way to communicate because there is no cell service in that area. Noel says installing Wi-Fi at both ends of the construction zone could make it less frustrating for locals who rely on the road as the only access route in and out of Ucluelet and Tofino.

The Ministry of Transportation is responsible for the upgrades near Kennedy Lake, about 12 kilometres northeast of the Ucluelet/Tofino junction on Highway 4. Construction began in 2018 and Noel says it is expected to last for another 12 to 18 months.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/internet-access-vancouver-island-1.5406814


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## ChrisZwolle

Regina has opened its bypass but arguably the busiest turning movement is missing: Winnipeg to Saskatoon. The bypass is way too far out for this traffic flow. 

Apparently a lot of truckers use Highway 46 from Balgonie to Regina, instead of Victoria Avenue or the Regina Bypass. The reason being that this is slightly shorter and features only three low-volume traffic lights instead of 6 high-volume traffic lights on Victoria Avenue or the long detour on the Regina Bypass.


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## Kanadzie

Wouldn't straight Winnipeg - Saskatoon traffic take Hwy 16 directly? Road is only 2 lanes but even more direct (of course that ignores origin traffic in Sask that is more along the Hwy 1 / CP Rail corridor)


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## ChrisZwolle

Yes Highway 16 is shorter but from what I gather it has almost no passing options, if you're stuck behind a slow truck you may be in for it the whole way. Many truckers therefore use the slightly longer but four lane route via Regina. 

Highway 16 also passes through a number of towns and has more turning movements (TOTSO - Turn Off To Stay On).


----------



## Kanadzie

I drove it from beginning (near Winnipeg) out well into SK, I don't think there is even a traffic light until Yorkton, passing opportunities seemed fine, though truckers may find it less pleasing naturally. Tempo 100, so harder for truckers to maintain 120 than on Hwy 1 I guess. One thing kind of nice is that the road passes through every small town, but the towns are so small that the speed limit is still 80 

Of course due to the geography (aside from the steep valley/hill/curve part around Russel, MB) every time you pass, there is oncoming traffic looking at you, just that, it is so flat that they are actually many km away :lol:


----------



## Calvin W

Highway 16 from Manitoba to Saskatoon averages in the 2000 vehicles per day traffic volume. Cars and trucks combined.

Highway 1 from Manitoba to Regina averages 5500 vehicles.

Highway 11 between Saskatoon and Regina average around 7500 vehicles per day. A lot of trucks do use highway 16.

I don't think too many trucks travel via Regina just to get to Saskatoon.


----------



## smokiboy

smokiboy said:


> Hey, does anyone know what is going on in the westbound lanes of the QEW at the Etobicoke Creek overpass? Looks like they are building a new bridge adjacent to the existing QEW for use from the West Mall entrance to the QEW. Which I gather would extend into a new service road connecting with the existing one towards Dixie Road. Is that right?





sonysnob said:


> They are just replacing the existing bridge with a new bridge. The central span of the QEW over Etobicoke Creek dates back to the 1930s, so it needs to be replaced for structural reasons.



It seems to me that the on ramp from The West Mall (to QEW) will lead into a new bridge over the Etobicoke Creek and then continue on to N. Service Road towards Dixie Road. There is also earthworks, what seems like the preparation of a new road to link up with N. Service Road. I wasn't able to take any photos but will try next time.


----------



## Burloak

smokiboy said:


> It seems to me that the on ramp from The West Mall (to QEW) will lead into a new bridge over the Etobicoke Creek and then continue on to N. Service Road towards Dixie Road. There is also earthworks, what seems like the preparation of a new road to link up with N. Service Road. I wasn't able to take any photos but will try next time.


I'm not sure if it's part of this contract, but I understand that Dixie Road bridge will be replaced with a conventional interchange. The on ramp from West Mall would become the off ramp to Dixie. I think a short piece of north service road a couple of hundred metres either side of Dixie will be closed permanently to accommodate interchange ramps. There must be something here. http://www.qewdixiedetaildesign.ca/


----------



## Cricket_Fan

Does anyone know the plans for this year with respect to reconstruction of the 401 between London and Tilbury? With the Ford government, they mentioned they will start widening that section, but I haven't seen any concrete plans in terms of contracts or design, or which section will be targeted first. And if they will stop the reconstruction that's been on going since 2015.

Also hoping they start the widening between Highway 24 and Townline this year.


----------



## Haljackey

Cricket_Fan said:


> Does anyone know the plans for this year with respect to reconstruction of the 401 between London and Tilbury? With the Ford government, they mentioned they will start widening that section, but I haven't seen any concrete plans in terms of contracts or design, or which section will be targeted first. And if they will stop the reconstruction that's been on going since 2015.
> 
> Also hoping they start the widening between Highway 24 and Townline this year.


The reconstruction of the existing lanes is made for easy filling in of the median from what I know.

No concrete plans from the government about the 6-laning of the 401 from Tilbury to London. They do want to try and fast-track it by using old environmental assessments rather than do new ones.

There's this site about the reconstruction
http://hwy401reconstruction.ca/

And this site about the widening
https://highway401tilburytolondon.ca/

Study notice:
https://highway401tilburytolondon.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/ad_1119_NOSC_Eng_Fr_fnl.pdf


----------



## Cricket_Fan

Haljackey said:


> The reconstruction of the existing lanes is made for easy filling in of the median from what I know.
> 
> No concrete plans from the government about the 6-laning of the 401 from Tilbury to London. They do want to try and fast-track it by using old environmental assessments rather than do new ones.
> 
> There's this site about the reconstruction
> http://hwy401reconstruction.ca/
> 
> And this site about the widening
> https://highway401tilburytolondon.ca/
> 
> Study notice:
> https://highway401tilburytolondon.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/ad_1119_NOSC_Eng_Fr_fnl.pdf


I hadn't seen that website about widening, good to know. At this point, is there any indication what they'll be doing for this year's construction season? I can't imagine they will start the widening this year, so will they continue with the reconstruction? The "Part A" contracts on hwy401reconstruction.ca webpage are done. They could work on the ones in "Part B", but no mention of them being formalized as contracts and a timeline.


----------



## hkskyline

* 'Sleepless in Toronto': Non-stop Gardiner construction keeping neighbours up at night *
CBC _Excerpt_
Jan 10, 2020 

People who live near the east end of the Gardiner Expressway say they haven't been able to get to sleep for months because of jackhammers, drills and other construction noise overnight — and ear plugs just aren't cutting it anymore.

It's all part of a large city project to rehabilitate the aging roadway, which is due to be completed in 2021. But residents say the current leg of the construction — Jarvis Street to Cherry Street — is disrupting their lives and their health.

"The issue for us is the noise levels that we're having to endure through the evening," said Suzanne Kavanagh with the St. Lawrence Neighbourhood Association.

"We've got children that are having trouble sleeping. They have to go to school the next day."

Some residents have taken to social media to share what they're hearing in the early hours of the morning.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/gardiner-construction-noise-1.5421314


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A 15 kilometer portion of Highway 201 (Calgary Southwest Ring Road) could open by 1 October 2020, a full year ahead of schedule.

CBC reports:


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/sw-ring-road-tsuu-tina-trail-1.5579780


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Canada and Ontario Move Forward with Widening Highway 401 in Cambridge*

May 20, 2020 

Today, the governments of Canada and Ontario announced the widening of Highway 401 from six to ten lanes in the Cambridge area. This major highway expansion will relieve congestion, shorten commute times and ensure the safe and reliable movement of essential goods along Canada's busiest highway and critical trade corridor.

The highway will be widened from six to ten lanes between Hespeler Road and Townline Road. Construction on the project, which includes High Occupancy Vehicle lanes, is expected to begin later this year.

Full press release: Canada and Ontario Move Forward with Widening Highway 401 in Cambridge


----------



## Haljackey

This is another step to ultimately widen the 401 to a minimum of 10 lanes from Kitchener to Toronto.

Lots of commuters/carpools between the two cities, so the HOV lane should be well utilized.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Ontario Moves Forward with Widening Highway 17 from Arnprior to Renfrew*

May 27, 2020 

Today, John Yakabuski, MPP for Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke, announced the Ontario government is moving forward with the first stage of widening Highway 17 from two to four lanes between Arnprior and Renfrew. The highway expansion, with four new interchanges, will keep families safe, connect communities, and drive economic growth in the region.

The government is requesting Expressions of Interest from qualified contractors for the first stage of the highway expansion, which will see a new interchange built at the Calabogie Road Intersection. Construction will begin following the awarding of the contract and completion of the design and environmental assessment. 

Ontario is widening 22.5 kilometres of Highway 17 from Scheel Drive to three kilometres west of Bruce Street in Renfrew County. The highway expansion project will help to inform the Province's first regional transportation plan for Eastern Ontario, to be released in 2021.

Full press release: Ontario Moves Forward with Widening Highway 17 from Arnprior to Renfrew

Location: OpenStreetMap

This sounds like it is basically an extension of Highway 417 towards Renfrew?


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## Haljackey

ChrisZwolle said:


> This sounds like it is basically an extension of Highway 417 towards Renfrew?


Sounds like it. It'd be nice to get the 417 all the way to Pertawawa one day.


----------



## sonysnob

They are going to go as far west as Storyland Road beyond Renfrew at this point.


----------



## Burloak

Highway 400 in Toronto is closed as they replace a bridge over the weekend. This is one of those, build the bridge to the side - then close the highway, move the old bridge out and the new one in. 
I understand they could have built it the old-fashioned stage construction way (squeeze traffic to the middle, remove the two right lanes and built wider - then shift traffic to this new part while the middle part is rebuilt) for basically the same cost. It would have resulted in an extra Hwy. 400 lane (and proper shoulders), and the span could have been made larger to prevent a lane being lost on Finch and to prevent maintaining the narrow sidewalks that exist now. 
But this Rapid Bridge Replacement (RBR) using SPMTs (Self-Propelled Modular Transporters) is the sexy new thing - so it was used. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1271913537686974464


----------



## Haljackey

It's about a month old, but drone footage of the 401 Miltion-Mississauga widening

Found on Facebook- not sure if you have to have an account to view? Wasn't able to find it anywhere else.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=639115336945721


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## ChrisZwolle

Highway 2 in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan. The clearance is indicated as 14 foot 6 inches instead of 4.4 meters. Is that common in Canada?


----------



## Haljackey

First I've seen of it. In my area it's all metric. Probably doesn't help people as many hit a local bridge that's in metric. Maybe the rental trucks people buy for moving are still listed in imperial so they can't do the math and hit it.

It's so good it has it's own twitter account. Not as bad as the 11-foot-8 bridge in the US but still pretty fun



https://twitter.com/TalbotStBridge






http://imgur.com/HR8VHIs










Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.ca


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Can confirm that U-hauls are in imperial. Speedometer is in miles, height of truck listed in feet. You have to do an on-the-fly approximate conversion to know if you are speeding or not.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Innsertnamehere said:


> Can confirm that U-hauls are in imperial. Speedometer is in miles, height of truck listed in feet. You have to do an on-the-fly approximate conversion to know if you are speeding or not.


Are you talking about a U-Haul rented in Canada? I’m surprised it’s legal without kilometers on the speedometer.
I haven’t had occasion to use a U-Haul in a while, but my 2002 car (a Mitsubishi that my dad bought from Enterprise) has both scales on the speedometer, and I think that’s normal on rentals. Did it have Arizona plates? Most U.S. U-Hauls seem to.


----------



## havaska

Penn's Woods said:


> Are you talking about a U-Haul rented in Canada? I’m surprised it’s legal without kilometers on the speedometer.
> I haven’t had occasion to use a U-Haul in a while, but my 2002 car (a Mitsubishi that my dad bought from Enterprise) has both scales on the speedometer, and I think that’s normal on rentals. Did it have Arizona plates? Most U.S. U-Hauls seem to.


I would have thought that most if not all US vehicles would have km/h as well as mph on the speedometer. In the UK they all have both; with digital displays it's less of an issue now as you just change it in the settings to display whichever you prefer.


----------



## Abhishek901

Innsertnamehere said:


> Can confirm that U-hauls are in imperial. Speedometer is in miles, height of truck listed in feet. You have to do an on-the-fly approximate conversion to know if you are speeding or not.


I drove a 10 ft U haul half a year back. For the first time I was driving something that big and for the lack of a better word, unsophisticated. It seemed too fast to me at all speeds. Driving at 40 seemed very fast and I thought that must be a usual experience while driving a big vehicle like this. Took me time to realize that the speedometer was in miles per hour and the license plate was Arizona.

I have driven cars with mph speedometer but in the US where I expect them to be in mph! Who in Canada would notice that the truck they are getting would be in mph? Majority of the users don't drive these trucks regularly and they will more worried about width of the truck and braking distance instead of checking the speedometer. What if I someone gets a ticket because of that! At least, the person at the counter can warn customers about this.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Manuel 'Matty' Moroun, owner of Ambassador Bridge, dead at 93 

Matty Moroun, the owner of the Ambassador Bridge has passed away. He was known for his opposition to the construction of the Gordie Howe International Bridge, which is currently being built. This bridge would compete with the Ambassador Bridge and likely take over much of its business, because the new bridge is much better connected on the Ontario side.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Did someone ever proposed to build a bridge to link these two isolated towns? On a quick research on the web I didn't find anything.









Moosonee · Unorganized North Cochrane District, ON, Canada


Unorganized North Cochrane District, ON, Canada




www.google.ch





Here is another pair of settlements linked by road only to each other. The railway itself is not linked to othar railways, except (apparently) with a train ferry.









OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org


----------



## geogregor

Vinci team picked for Calgary ring road



> *A consortium led by Vinci has won a CA$277m (£163m) contact to design and build the final section of the West Calgary Ring Road in Canada.*
> 
> Graham will work with Vinci on the project to build the 5km southern segment between Old Banff Coach Road and Highway 8 for Alberta’s Ministry of Transportation. Vinci, which has a 65% stake in the consortium, will carry out its work via Carmacks - a Eurovia subsidiary serving as lead contractor - and Vinci Construction Terrassement.
> 
> This project will include four interchanges, seven bridges and a tunnel for pedestrians.
> The final section of the 100km West Calgary Ring Road is due for completion by 2024.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 11, Alberta*

*Improving David Thompson Highway and creating jobs*

The Government of Alberta will twin a 66-kilometre stretch of the David Thompson Highway between Sylvan Lake and Rocky Mountain House.

This $120-million project is part of Alberta’s Recovery Plan and will create about 582 jobs, while upgrading the highway and improving traffic flow along this important recreation corridor.

The David Thompson Highway project is part of the more than $10 billion infrastructure spending announced as part of Alberta’s Recovery Plan. This spending includes: $6.9 billion Budget 2020 capital spending, $980 million accelerated for Capital Maintenance and Renewal, $200 million for Strategic Transportation Infrastructure Program and water infrastructure projects, $600 million in strategic infrastructure projects, $500 million in municipal infrastructure and $1.5 billion for Keystone XL.


Sylvan Lake and the David Thompson Country region are popular summer vacation destinations.
Design work will start in 2020 with construction activities getting underway in the 2021 construction season following land acquisition. A project of this scope typically takes about four years to build. 
The project will be completed in phases over the following several construction seasons. 
About 5,800 vehicles use this section of Highway 11 each day. 
This project is anticipated to support 344 direct and 248 indirect jobs
Full release: Improving David Thompson Highway and creating jobs


----------



## Burloak

Coccodrillo said:


> Did someone ever proposed to build a bridge to link these two isolated towns? On a quick research on the web I didn't find anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moosonee · Unorganized North Cochrane District, ON, Canada
> 
> 
> Unorganized North Cochrane District, ON, Canada
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.ch


I am assuming you mean Moosonee and Moose Factory. With length of crossing and remoteness, I suspect you are looking at somewhere in the $750M range.


----------



## hkskyline

*Final chapter in ‘chair girl’ saga infuriates citizens and Toronto mayor*
Radio Canada International _Excerpt_
Jul 22, 2020

It was a shocking stunt that made news around the world. Last year, a young Toronto woman threw two chairs off a high rise balcony on to a busy street far below which immediately beside one of the busiest highways in the country. Very fortunately for all involved, and miraculously perhaps, no-one was hurt.

The act was posted on social media.. It was so dangerous that police investigated and eventually charged Marcella Zoia, then aged 19 with mischief endangering life.

After avoiding several court dates (6) with various excuses, people were further aggravated as the woman appeared to capitalize on the attention and continued to post photos of herself in various types of clothing and enjoying the apparent attention as an ‘instagram influencer” even making it into a brief appearance in a Drake music video (since removed).

Many people hoped she would face serious consequences for the extremely dangerous act, for which she seems to have shown little remorse, and attempting to profit from with constant photos of her ‘enhanced’ self on social media often partying. She finally pleaded guilty to the charge and was sentenced yesterday.

Reaction to the sentence has been swift. Most people are upset at what seems to be a light sentence for what had the potential to be a deadly act. She was sentenced to two years probation, a $2,000 fine, and 150 hours of community service.

More : Final chapter in 'chair girl' saga infuriates citizens and Toronto mayor


----------



## hkskyline

Highway 401 @ Toronto

Ontario&#x27;s Mother Road by Sean Marshall, on Flickr


----------



## Haljackey

427 extension progress


----------



## Terminator Krzysztof

*Ontario has Confirmed the Preferred Route for the GTA West Multimodal Transportation Corridor*








Highway 413 - Highway 413


Highway 413 could save you up to 30 minutes each way. Get the facts Menu Home The Environment Consultation Process & Timeline Background & Reports News & Updates PTE Contact Us English | Français | Accessibility Highway 413 is a proposed highway and transit corridor running through York, Peel...




www.gta-west.com





As a longtime resident of NorthWest Brampton, if this doesn't get built it will be commuting suicide each and every day for half a million people and more based on future predictions. *This has to be built*, it makes too much sense, if you've ever commuted from Brampton to burlington, oakville, milton, mississauga etc and vice versa, you know how much congestion there can be on Mississauga Rd, Heritage, Winston Churchill etc. Heck, commuting anywhere through and from Brampton is a challenge. Take a drive along steeles towards Milton and in between the 401 and 407, tons of land being developed for industrial use, so this project will help aid in that.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A25 Louis-Hippolyte Lafontaine Bridge–Tunnel*

A press release by VINCI:

*VINCI awarded contract by Quebec authorities for the rehabilitation of Louis Hippolyte Lafontaine Tunnel, Montreal*

The Quebec Ministry of Transportation has selected consortium Renouveau La Fontaine, comprising VINCI subsidiaries (50%) – Eurovia, consortium leader, and Dodin Campenon Bernard – and Canadian company Pomerleau (50%), to rehabilitate Louis Hippolyte Lafontaine Tunnel and its access roads.

The tunnel was opened in 1967 and is the longest underwater structure in Canada, covering a distance of 1.5 km beneath the Saint-Lawrence River. It is a strategic transport corridor for the Montreal urban area, linking the eastern part of the Island of Montreal to the city of Longueuil. Louis Hippolyte Lafontaine Tunnel carries 120,000 vehicles a day.

The rehabilitation aims to improve tunnel safety, optimise traffic and promote carsharing and public transport.

The contract, worth €726 million (C$1,142 million), calls for the financing, design and execution of rehabilitation works. The financing package includes a bank loan from a syndicate of five Canadian banks and a Japanese bank.

The works will be carried out between early 2021 and July 2025. They include:

· Access roads: widening the A20 motorway with the addition of a new bus and carsharing lane, as well rehabilitating 25 km of pavement (on the A25 and A20) and an interchange.
· Tunnel: repairing the structure; installing new fire protection facings; landscaping and architectural finishes; modernising all electrical, electromechanical and supervisory infrastructure, as well as deploying new technologies to increase operator and user safety (fire safety equipment and smoke evacuation systems).

Throughout the works, the consortium will be responsible for the operation, upkeep and maintenance of the various sites and roads, which will remain open to traffic at all times.









VINCI awarded contract by Quebec authorities for the rehabilitation of Louis Hippolyte Lafontaine Tunnel, Montreal


The Quebec Ministry of Transportation has selected consortium Renouveau La Fontaine, comprising VINCI subsidiaries (50%) – Eurovia, consortium leader, and Dodin Campenon Bernard – and Canadian company Pomerleau (50%), to rehabilitate Louis Hippolyte Lafontaine Tunnel and its access roads.




www.vinci.com


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How common are 4-way stops on a four lane divided road? This is in Steinbach, Manitoba.


----------



## Jschmuck

ChrisZwolle said:


> How common are 4-way stops on a four lane divided road? This is in Steinbach, Manitoba.


Sorry not Canada, but there is a 4-way stop in Scooba, Mississippi at the junction of US-45 (4-lane divided) and SR-16


----------



## Abhishek901

I have seen stop signs on 4 lane roads at quite a few places around Toronto but those were mostly not divided like this. They are more common around big malls.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A new season of _Highway Thru Hell_ will premiere next month.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296164431294996480
I used to watch _Ice Road Truckers_ but I quit after a few seasons, as it became repetitive, staged, exaggerated and sensationalist. _Highway Thru Hell_ and _Heavy Rescue: 401_ don't need huge exaggeration to be an interesting show. Though I must admit that the novelty of _Highway Thru Hell_ has faded a bit after their first 4 or 5 seasons. This'll be the ninth season.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Autoroute 35, Québec*

The construction of Phase III of Autoroute 35 to the U.S. border has commenced last week. This is a 8.9 kilometer segment from Saint-Sébastien to Saint-Armand. It is scheduled for completion in fall 2023.

Press release (in French): 





__





Les gouvernements du Canada et du Québec annoncent le début des travaux entre Saint-Sébastien et Saint-Armand







www.transports.gouv.qc.ca





News report (in English):









Third phase of Quebec’s Highway 35 extension project begins - Montreal | Globalnews.ca


The Quebec government has begun work on the third phase of the extension of Highway 35. The highway is supposed to link to Interstate 89 in Vermont creating a continuous highway between Montreal and Boston.




globalnews.ca


----------



## VITORIA MAN

Plug Hat Road by A Great Capture, en Flickr


----------



## Haljackey

Gardiner Expressway in Toronto getting some TLC

Via Gardiner Expressway Hybrid Design


----------



## Innsertnamehere

VITORIA MAN said:


> Plug Hat Road by A Great Capture, en Flickr


Hard to believe that's in the largest city in Canada. About a 2 minute drive down that road, after passing under a single lane railway underpass, it actually turns into a 4 lane arterial with a grade separated interchange in front of the Toronto Zoo..

The north-east corner of the City is kind of neat how it's still rural.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Innsertnamehere said:


> Hard to believe that's in the largest city in Canada. About a 2 minute drive down that road, after passing under a single lane railway underpass, it actually turns into a 4 lane arterial with a grade separated interchange in front of the Toronto Zoo..
> 
> The north-east corner of the City is kind of neat how it's still rural.


I’m not seeing a caption to that picture. Am o missing something?


----------



## mgk920

Penn's Woods said:


> I’m not seeing a caption to that picture. Am o missing something?


If you think that that's something, check out how far into the rural hinterlands the City of Ottawa, ON goes. The provincial government ordered major municipal amalgamations throughout the province back in the late 20th century, something that I wish that some USA states had the gonads to do.

Mike


----------



## Abhishek901

Ottawa's amalgamation was a little too much. I am not surprised looking at rural fields in Ottawa knowing how they pushed the boundaries. This part of Toronto, however, is surrounded by urban areas.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Route options for Highway 97 in Peachland, BC. This is just south of Kelowna.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A new interchange opened to traffic on Highway 1 in Langley, British Columbia, at 216th Street.

_The 216th Street interchange is the seventh overpass and fourth interchange over Highway 1 in Langley, and the only one added in decades. The plans also included widening four kilometres of Highway 1 between 202nd and 216th Streets from four lanes to six lanes._









VIDEO: New 216th Street-freeway interchange opens – Aldergrove Star


Traffic is already flowing on the $62-million highway connector in Langley




www.aldergrovestar.com






216th Street interchange provides new connection for Langley residents by Province of British Columbia, on Flickr


----------



## hkskyline

* City to spend $10 million on rebuild of section of E.C. Row Expressway *
Windsor Star _Excerpt_
Sep 4, 2020

The City of Windsor is spending $10 million to rebuild one of the oldest and busiest sections of E.C. Row Expressway.

This will be the biggest investment city council has made toward reconstruction of the expressway since the city took ownership of it from the province in 1997.

"I made a commitment to transform E.C. Row into a modern, worldclass roadway, and this project will help our community significantly by bringing us closer to that goal," said Mayor Drew Dilkens. "Fixing Windsor's roads continues to be a top priority. Strong infrastructure helps create the conditions for economic success in the long-term while creating construction jobs in the short-term."

The first stage of the project began in August. That work involves reconstructing the westbound lanes between Dougall Avenue and Dominion Boulevard.

Site preparation to reinforce the shoulders and build a crossover to transfer westbound traffic to the eastbound lanes was completed on Aug. 28.

More : City of Windsor to spend $10M on E.C. Row rebuild


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The massive Turcot Interchange project in Montréal is nearing completion. The connector from A720 to A15/20 will open Monday morning.

According to Open Street Map that means there is only one autoroute-to-autoroute connector remaining: OpenStreetMap

This is a massive $ 3.7 billion (!) project. Maybe the most expensive single project in Canadian road history?


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> The massive Turcot Interchange project in Montréal is nearing completion. The connector from A720 to A15/20 will open Monday morning.
> 
> According to Open Street Map that means there is only one autoroute-to-autoroute connector remaining: OpenStreetMap
> 
> This is a massive $ 3.7 billion (!) project. Maybe the most expensive single project in Canadian road history?


Is that rebuilt or completely new? Meaning was it possible to go from 720 to 15/20 eastbound before? I’ve always used autoroute 10 between downtown Montreal and the Champlain Bridge.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Northwest Territories Highway 9 - Tłı̨chǫ Highway


Official name unveiled for new all-season highway to Whatì*

The Government of the Northwest Territories and Tłı̨chǫ Government are pleased to announce the official name of the new all-season road to Whatì as the Tłı̨chǫ Highway, or Highway 9.

Formerly known as the Tłı̨chǫ All-Season Road, the new name underscores the importance of this new highway for the Tłı̨chǫ region, which will provide year-round access to Whatì and increase the window of access for the winter roads to the communities of Gamètì and Wekweètì.

Currently, the winter roads to Gamètı̀ and Wekweètı̀ can only open for the season after the winter road to Whatı̀ has opened, which is the winter road that is most vulnerable to fluctuating conditions. With an all-season road to Whatì, the winter roads to Gamètı̀ and Wekweètı̀ will likely open sooner and close later.

Set to open in the fall of 2021, the new highway will help reduce the cost of living for the region and support new social opportunities, while helping attract further interest from industry in the exploration and development of natural resources.



https://www.gov.nt.ca/sites/flagship/files/documents/nr_-_official_name_unveiled_for_new_all-season_highway_to_whati.pdf


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is why you have snow sheds. Highway 1 east of Revelstoke, British Columbia:


----------



## hkskyline

Doug Ford plans to start building a new superhighway near the 401 next year. Why not move all the trucks to the 407 toll highway instead?


Critics say Ford’s decision to fast-track the new highway brushed aside advice from the government’s own experts, who recommended increasing capacity or subsidizing tolls to get more trucks onto the 407.




www.thestar.com


----------



## Penn's Woods

hkskyline said:


> Doug Ford plans to start building a new superhighway near the 401 next year. Why not move all the trucks to the 407 toll highway instead?
> 
> 
> Critics say Ford’s decision to fast-track the new highway brushed aside advice from the government’s own experts, who recommended increasing capacity or subsidizing tolls to get more trucks onto the 407.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thestar.com


Paywalled. What’s the gist?


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ blather from slanted newspaper about stupidity 

the main concept is that the government is thinking to build a new highway, but there is a privately-operated toll road to the south that sees less traffic as a result of covid pandemic. The private company contractually must maintain a certain volume of traffic or pay the government a penalty. They suggest the government to pay this private company extra money and somehow move truck traffic there.

the obvious thought of the government doing nothing, and the private company reducing toll rates to bring back traffic counts (and avoid penalty) is not mentioned or alluded to


----------



## Penn's Woods

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ blather from slanted newspaper about stupidity
> 
> the main concept is that the government is thinking to build a new highway, but there is a privately-operated toll road to the south that sees less traffic as a result of covid pandemic. The private company contractually must maintain a certain volume of traffic or pay the government a penalty. They suggest the government to pay this private company extra money and somehow move truck traffic there.
> 
> the obvious thought of the government doing nothing, and the private company reducing toll rates to bring back traffic counts (and avoid penalty) is not mentioned or alluded to


So this new route is farther north than the 407? What’s it called, where would it go...?


----------



## Yellow Fever

Highway 91 and 17 upgrade project in Greater Surrey/Delta area, BC


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Penn's Woods said:


> So this new route is farther north than the 407? What’s it called, where would it go...?


I believe this is the GTA West Corridor:


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> I believe this is the GTA West Corridor:


Thanks. Unless things have changed it’s still fairly rural along most of that route. Or at least it’s along the edge of the urban area...not much north of it. So this would mostly function as a bypass of the more immediate Toronto area for traffic wanting to get from the 400 corridor to Hamilton and points south and west?


----------



## Haljackey

Yes that's the primary focus of the highway. Right now this traffic would be funneled to on the 401 to the 400 interchange, so this would reduce volumes there a bit. It's either that or the crazy expensive 407. This highway may be tolled too, but I would expect it to have much lower prices than the 407.

Further north than this junction is another proposed freeway connecting the 400 to 404. It's called the Bradford Bypass.


----------



## hkskyline

I wonder whether any level of government is willing to pay the enormous construction cost and end up asking the private sector to build and operate, which will result in an expensive toll that I doubt will be less than the 407.

Then the private sector will turn it into an investment trust and sell off chunks of it to the pension plans for a hefty profit.


----------



## smokiboy

If this is ever built it begs the question what next? Would it continue eastward to the 404, and where would it connect, near Gormley perhaps. After that further east and eventually meet up with 412.


----------



## VoltAmps

Yellow Fever said:


> Highway 91 and 17 upgrade project in Greater Surrey/Delta area, BC
> 
> View attachment 918141


Greater Surrey?? There’s no such place. The whole project is in Delta, just say Delta


----------



## Haljackey

smokiboy said:


> If this is ever built it begs the question what next? Would it continue eastward to the 404, and where would it connect, near Gormley perhaps. After that further east and eventually meet up with 412.


It won't, too much development in the way. That's what the Bradford Bypass highway is for, that runs further north of where this highway would meet the 400.


----------



## smokiboy

In my view the Bradford Bypass highway is too far north to be 'compatible' or a continuation of the proposed GTAW route. When you look at a map you can see a 'route' from 400 to 404 avoiding most built up areas. This is all just fantasy map talk, but I'm just saying it could be done ...


----------



## smokiboy

The entire route would look something like this. I'm not saying I'm a proponent of the need for this new highway, I'm just saying that this route may be doable.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Contract awarded to build South Bow River Bridge*

PCL Construction has won the contract to replace the eastbound bridge over the Bow River on southeast Stoney Trail in Calgary.

The contract was awarded for about $48 million and offers significant savings for taxpayers. The total project cost, which includes engineering and utility relocations, is estimated at $60 million – significantly less than the anticipated cost of $70 million.

The South Bow River Bridge project also includes widening the westbound bridge and building a new, stand-alone pedestrian bridge.

Construction on the new bridge is anticipated to get underway in spring 2021 and be completed in late 2023.

The project includes: 

Widening the existing westbound bridge to add a fourth lane.
Replacing the existing eastbound Stoney Trail bridge with a new, wider bridge over the Bow River. 
A new pedestrian bridge south of the existing bridge that will connect to the existing pathway networks.
Improvements to interchanges between Sun Valley Boulevard/Chaparral Boulevard and Cranston Boulevard /Mckenzie Lake Boulevard.









Contract awarded to build South Bow River Bridge


PCL Construction has won the contract to replace the eastbound bridge over the Bow River on southeast Stoney Trail in Calgary.




www.alberta.ca





The current bridge was the original bridge at this location, initially a two-lane bridge that carried traffic in both directions. Stoney Trail had traffic lights at that time. A second bridge was added in 2007, though freeway conversion wasn't completed until 2013.


----------



## hkskyline

*Gardiner Expressway*

QEW by Marcanadian, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Saskatchewan*

*$18 Million Overpass Project Begins Near Swift Current*

_Released on January 25, 2021_

The Government of Saskatchewan is beginning construction work on two overpasses on one of the province’s busiest highways. 

Today, Regina-based Graham Construction will begin work on the $18 million project on Highway 1 over the CP Rail tracks about five kilometres east of Swift Current. 

The project will include the full replacement of the existing overpass structure on the eastbound lanes and the rehabilitation of the bridge supporting the westbound lanes. Graham will begin work on the westbound bridge today, with expected completion of that phase at the end of June. Work on the eastbound portion will then begin, with completion expected in the fall. The projected cost is $18 million. 

Full press release: $18 Million Overpass Project Begins Near Swift Current | News and Media | Government of Saskatchewan


The eastbound replacement is probably the original bridge of Highway 1 across the railroad, with the westbound span added when the highway was twinned. The eastbound Highway 1 also has a different alignment, maybe they're going to rectify this as well. $ 18 million sounds like a bigger job than just the placement of a short span.


----------



## hkskyline

*Mississauga opposes plans for new 400 series highway * 
680 News _Excerpt_ 
Feb 25, 2021

You can add Mississauga to the list of municipalities to vote against plans for a new 400 series highway.

Highway 413, also known as the GTA west corridor, would run through Vaughan, Caledon, Brampton and Halton Hills.

Mississauga City Council has unanimously passed a motion opposing the project and mayor Bonnie Crombie says the highway will “encourage residential sprawl and increase dependence on cars.”

More : Mississauga opposes plans for new 400 series highway - 680 NEWS


----------



## Haljackey

Canada's longest/highest flyover ramp on a proposed highway interchange expansion:

https://www.gta-west.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Draft-Straw-Model-Designs-Section-1.pdf 

SB to EB connections


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*HIGHWAY CONSTRUCTION PROJECT TO CLOSE INTERSECTIONS PERMANENTLY ON NORTH PERIMETER*
_
Manitoba Infrastructure officials advise construction will begin on the north perimeter starting Monday, July 26.

This project will involve intersection improvements including:
• construction of turning lanes, concrete pavement repairs and gravelling of existing service roads; and
• removing intersections and median openings.

Work will begin on the west perimeter working toward the east and the project is scheduled to be completed by October 2021. Traffic control will be in place, and will include temporary lane closures and reduced speed zones.

The project will permanently close the following intersections on the perimeter highway:
• Road 64 North,
• Inkster Boulevard,
• Prairie Dog Trail,
• Summit Road,
• Klimpke Road, and
• King Edward Street._









Province of Manitoba | News Releases | Highway Construction Project to Close Intersections Permanently on North Perimeter


Province of Manitoba




news.gov.mb.ca





This project will upgrade the northwest Perimeter Highway of Winnipeg to freeway standards. The closure of these six intersections won't turn this part of the Perimeter Highway into a freeway immediately though, as there will still be some intersections and railway crossings.


----------



## hkskyline

Sunrise in Toronto on Dufferin Street Bridge by Suhail Akhtar, on Flickr


----------



## hkskyline

* Proposed Highway 413 would pave over precious nature reserve in Vaughan, biologist says*
August 10, 2021
CBC _Excerpt_

Searching for monarch butterflies in a milkweed-dotted meadow, Ryan Norris gestures to the surrounding Nashville Conservation Reserve in the heart of the greenbelt. 

"Obviously if this was paved over, we'd lose this," said the University of Guelph biologist. "And of course big highways are not great for butterflies." 

Although the 360-hectare reserve is a protected patch of nature in Vaughan, Ont. and critical habitat for monarchs, migratory birds, amphibians, coyotes and deer, its southern section is along the province's preferred route for a new expressway.

Highway 413 would run 59 kilometres through the GTA's northwest, linking the 401/407 interchange in Halton Hills with Highway 400 in Vaughan.

If the province follows through on its preferred route, it would mean paving through the Nashville Conservation Reserve along with destroying as many as 75 wetlands and forest totalling six kilometres in length elsewhere along the route, estimates the law charity Ecojustice.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/highway-413-nashville-conservation-reserve-1.6132089


----------



## ChrisZwolle

An overpass of Highway 1 around Portage la Prairie, Manitoba has been hit so many times that they didn't even bother to repair it. Over the past 10 years, 3 beams and half the bridge width have disappeared due to bridge strikes. The decision was finally made to replace the whole thing with a higher clearance bridge.









Province of Manitoba | News Releases | Province to Release Final Design Plans for Portage la Prairie Overpass Replacement at Trans-Canada Highway and PTH 1A West Interchange


Province of Manitoba




news.gov.mb.ca





Original condition









1 beam hit and removed









2 beams hit and removed









3 beams hit and removed


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Driving through wildfires on the Coquihalla Highway in B.C.:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1427142422107070464


----------



## ChrisZwolle

_*Eight-lane toll-free tunnel to replace George Massey Tunnel*_


Eight-lane toll-free tunnel to replace George Massey Tunnel by Province of British Columbia, on Flickr

_A new eight-lane immersed-tube tunnel will replace the George Massey Tunnel on Highway 99, providing people a toll-free crossing that aligns with regional interests and improves transit, cycling and walking connections across the Fraser River. 

The new eight-lane tunnel will be in operation in 2030, with the cost estimated at $4.15 billion. Two of the eight lanes will be dedicated for bus rapid transit, and there will be separated pathways for cyclists and pedestrians. In the interim, the Province has started work to reduce traffic congestion by launching projects to improve transit and cycling infrastructure along the Highway 99 corridor and replace the Steveston Interchange.

The next step is to initiate the environmental assessment process, including ongoing engagement with Indigenous peoples and preparing for procurement. In the interim, improvements to transit and cycling infrastructure along Highway 99 will begin this fall, as will work on the new Steveston Interchange, which will be completed in 2025._

Full press release: Eight-lane toll-free tunnel to replace George Massey Tunnel | BC Gov News

The original plan was to replace the tunnel by a 10 lane cable-stayed bridge, but the project was reconsidered after a government change in 2017.


----------



## hkskyline

*Years-long construction on and around the Gardiner Expressway begins today. Here's what you should know *
Aug 31, 2021
CBC _Excerpt_

Drivers will lose access Tuesday night to a busy ramp on the eastern end of the Gardiner Expressway as the city begins work on a years-long project to realign the aging highway and redevelop roadways in the area.

The city will permanently close the Logan Avenue ramp at 9 p.m. as part of the initial phases of its expansive Gardiner Expressway Rehabilitation Plan. The dual on-and-off ramp will then be torn down, and other work completed, during a series of weekend closures on Lake Shore Boulevard East that are expected to last through November.

Once the ramp is removed, the Lake Shore bridge over the Don River will be widened and lengthened. The upgraded bridge will have space for bike lanes and pedestrian paths, the city said in a news release last week.

It will also allow for the naturalization of the mouth and southern stretch of the Don River, a key part of Toronto's plan to mitigate flooding in the face of more extreme weather events, it added.

"Every effort has been made to reduce construction impacts for the project," the release said, though residents can expect some dust, noise and traffic congestion.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...st-closure-lake-shore-logan-detours-1.6159380


----------



## Haljackey

The Urban Toronto site has lots of pics of the Gardiner Expressway demolition (and future partial rebuild) east of downtown Toronto.

Roads: Gardiner Expressway catch-all, incl. Hybrid Design (2015-onwards)


----------



## hkskyline

Gardiner Lakeshore ramp demo 🔴DJI Mini 2 by Andrei A., on Flickr

Gardiner Lakeshore ramp demo 🔴DJI Mini 2 by Andrei A., on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Finally!

*Ontario Opens Highway 427 Expansion*
_
The Ontario Government is opening a 10-kilometre expansion of Highway 427 from Finch Avenue to Major Mackenzie Drive to help improve traffic flow, reduce congestion and move people and goods safely. 

“I am pleased to announce the new and widened sections of Highway 427 will be open to the public on September 18,” said Caroline Mulroney, Minister of Transportation. 

The expansion of Highway 427, which serves as a heavily-used commuter route to the City of Vaughan and neighbouring communities, is expected to save commuters up to 25 minutes of total travel time for a two-way trip during peak periods compared to driving along parallel municipal roadways.

A 6.6-kilometre extension of the highway includes eight new lanes from Highway 7 to Rutherford Road and six new lanes to Major Mackenzie Drive. Three new interchanges at Langstaff Road, Rutherford Road and Major Mackenzie Drive have also been constructed to connect roadways without interruption.

A four-kilometre segment has also been widened to eight lanes from Finch Avenue to Highway 7 along with an upgraded full interchange at Highway 7._

Full press release: Ontario Newsroom


----------



## RipleyLV

hkskyline said:


> Gardiner Lakeshore ramp demo 🔴DJI Mini 2 by Andrei A., on Flickr


Oh, I remember wandering around these parts three years ago. There is an awesome spot by the docks on the left side in this picture where you could get some pretty amazing skyline shots of Toronto. Especially during night time.


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## hkskyline

The ever disappearing eastern ramp off the Gardiner by Phil Marion (194 million views), on Flickr


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## hkskyline

*Gardiner Expressway ramp demolition debris crashes through Toronto man’s SUV rear window*








Gardiner Expressway ramp demolition debris crashes through Toronto man’s SUV rear window | Watch News Videos Online


Watch Gardiner Expressway ramp demolition debris crashes through Toronto man’s SUV rear window Video Online, on GlobalNews.ca




globalnews.ca


----------



## hkskyline

*Toronto's Gardiner Expressway* (east end)

XXIMG_0155 by Jeremy Gilbert, on Flickr

XXIMG_0178 by Jeremy Gilbert, on Flickr

XXIMG_0200 by Jeremy Gilbert, on Flickr

XXIMG_0207 by Jeremy Gilbert, on Flickr


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## hkskyline

* Vancouver driver says he's set a new record for fastest Trans Canada Highway journey by electric car *
CBC _Excerpt_
Sep 20, 2021

A Vancouver man says he has set a record for the fastest drive of the entire Trans Canada Highway in an electric car.

Harvey Soicher, 68, and co-driver Kent Rathwell took the 7,000 kilometre-plus journey from St. John's to Victoria in four days and 19 hours, which included taking ferries and charging up his vehicle.

Soicher said he undertook the adventure in honour of his late wife and to show that electric-vehicle technology is more reliable and far ranging than ever.

He also said electric vehicles must be more widely adopted to help curb climate change.

"Transportation done by fossil fuels is a high percentage of carbon emissions," Soicher told CBC News. "This summer, with all the fires, people are really realizing that we have to make some changes, quickly."

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...-car-road-trip-trans-canada-highway-1.6181970


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## ChrisZwolle

*Southwest Calgary Ring Road opens*
_
After five years of construction, one of the biggest infrastructure projects in Alberta’s history fully opens to traffic.

The $1.42 billion, 31-kilometre Southwest Calgary Ring Road connects Highway 8 (near the Elbow Springs Golf Club) to Macleod Trail SE and makes up about 20 per cent of the entire Calgary Ring Road. Strengthening our workforce is one of the key pillars in Alberta’s Recovery Plan. This project created approximately 2,000 jobs._









Southwest Calgary Ring Road opens


After five years of construction, one of the biggest infrastructure projects in Alberta’s history fully opens to traffic.




www.alberta.ca





The press release isn't very clear, but the final 4 kilometer segment of the Southwest Ring Road opened to traffic today, from Highway 22X to Fish Creek Boulevard. 

Not all work on the Calgary Ring Road is completed though, the western section across the Bow River is under construction and won't open until 2024. Also, the southern crossing of the Bow River is being replaced by a modern bridge, with a scheduled completion in 2023.

The Southwest Calgary Ring Road is very spaciously designed, it has a 100 meter wide median to allow for future transportation expansions. It almost looks Dubai style on satellite imagery with up to 5 lanes each way with a gigantic median.


----------



## hkskyline

* Southwest leg of Calgary ring road officially opens as province cuts mic on Tsuut'ina protestor *
Calgary Herald _Excerpt_
Oct 2, 2021

The southwest portion of Calgary’s ring road opened to traffic Saturday amid a continued call of opposition from a man whose family was displaced by the project.

The section of the highway from Fish Creek Blvd. to Highway 22x opened on Saturday evening, five years after construction first began on the major roadway. The southwest section of the ring road is made up of 31 kilometres of six-lane and eight-lane divided highways, a road flyover, a railway crossing, 49 bridges, a tunnel and three river crossings.

The road is expected to carry 80,000 to 100,000 vehicles a day for the next 30 years and reduce commuter congestion within the city.

More : Southwest leg of Calgary ring road officially opens as province cuts mic on Tsuut'ina protestor


----------



## ArchGuy1

Currently, Highway 9 crosses the Yukon River in Dawson City by ferry during the summer and ice bridge during the winter. During the spring breakup period, the crossing is closed and there is no way across. A permnant bridge was proposed in 2004, but was never built. Therefore, a permnant bridge should be constructed to carry Highway 9 traffic across the Yukon River in Dawson City. Something like this was done with the construction of the Deh Cho Bridge on the Yellowknife Highway in 2012. Also, a similar bridge carrying Highway 9 over the Yukon River in Dawson City should also be built as an iconic landmark for the city.








Deh Cho Bridge - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org












Dawson City - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org












Yukon River - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## ssiguy2

What a stupid idea. Just when you thought governments couldn't possibly waste any more money on pet projects, along comes this one. 

There are no even mid-size towns between Dawson & Alaska and there are but a handful of houses. Why should taxpayers be forced to spend a crapload of money because some people were stupid enough to live in an inaccessible area? If these few people complain about little access perhaps they shouldn't have decided to live there in the first place.


----------



## 54°26′S 3°24′E

The bridge should be gold plated ;-) Who does not want to have a short-cut to Chicken and Tok also during spring and fall ;-D

I guessing when seeing the small size of this ferry (which I guess corresponds to the traffic load) that an ice-breaking version is not really an option?









Dawson is interesting, given its tiny size, it has a remarkable prominent place in modern popular culture.


----------



## hkskyline

* Three bridges along Highway 401 in Trenton, Ont., dedicated to fallen police officers *
Global News _Excerpt_
Oct 14, 2021

A dedication ceremony was held Thursday in Trenton, Ont., to honour three Trenton police officers who died in the line of duty.

The officers honoured were Const. Blair Campbell Brown who died on June 27, 1931; Const. Mark L. Houlden who died on July 29, 1970, and Const. James L. Begbie who died on June 22, 1978.

“These officers have made the ultimate sacrifice while in the line of duty, and I am truly humbled by their selfishness and dedication in serving the people of Ontario. These bridges along Highway 401 will serve as a lasting, permanent tribute of these heroes,” said Caroline Mulroney, Ontario’s Minister of Transportation, who was in attendance.

More : https://globalnews.ca/news/8267574/three-bridges-highway-401-named-after-fallen-officers/


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## 54°26′S 3°24′E

54°26′S 3°24′E said:


> Who does not want to have a short-cut to Chicken and Tok also during spring and fall ;-D


I realize now that highway 9 starting from the west bank is closed during winter, so I guess then Chicken depends on its airstrip.


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## g.spinoza

ArchGuy1 said:


> Currently, Highway 9 crosses the Yukon River in Dawson City by ferry during the summer and ice bridge during the winter. During the spring breakup period, the crossing is closed and there is no way across. A permnant bridge was proposed in 2004, but was never built. Therefore, a permnant bridge should be constructed to carry Highway 9 traffic across the Yukon River in Dawson City. Something like this was done with the construction of the Deh Cho Bridge on the Yellowknife Highway in 2012. Also, a similar bridge carrying Highway 9 over the Yukon River in Dawson City should also be built as an iconic landmark for the city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Deh Cho Bridge - Wikipedia
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> 
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> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> Dawson City - Wikipedia
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
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> 
> 
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> Yukon River - Wikipedia
> 
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> en.wikipedia.org


"Permanent".


----------



## 54°26′S 3°24′E

The population of Yukon is btw around 42 000 in total, of which 25 000 lives in Whitehorse, so with a 482 443 km2 area (between Sweden and Spain), the territory is extremely sparsely populated. But it is actually the region of Canada with the highest population growth.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Highway 9 is named the 'Top of the World Highway', because it runs across high-altitude ridges, which is apparently the reason why it's not drivable in the winter as it is very exposed. Much of the route is at an elevation of over 1,000 meters.


----------



## 54°26′S 3°24′E

This was a quite interesting article on the problems they have had with the ice bridge in 2019. Apparently, there is not a unison cry for this ~100 M$ bridge even among the people living in West Dawson.








The Failing Ice Bridge Dividing This Yukon Community


When the Yukon River doesn’t freeze, West Dawson is cut off from basic supplies and services in winter.




www.vice.com





So, in summary, the business case for a fixed link, especially in the age of helicopter and cheaper and cheaper drone transport. For tough guys or gals maybe snowmobile could be a solution. They actually can be used across water as well. I think the current record length across water in a single trip is more than 200 km. But, you need to keep the pace up....





Probably a safer solution for supplies and transportation of school kids etc. would probably be a hovercraft, however, which comes in all sizes. 













Hovercraft is the Perfect Winter Vehicle for Snow, Ice or Water - Air Rider


Air Rider Hovercraft is the perfect winter vehicle - it can traverse ice, snow and open water to get you and your family to the most remote cabin.




airriderhovercraft.com


----------



## geogregor

Construction of bridge to Detroit an the border infrastructure. It will cover large area:

https://twitter.com/GordieHoweBrg


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## hkskyline

*Highway 407 - Vaughan *


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Two segments of Autoroute 85 in Québec open to traffic. A85 is the main highway to New Brunswick, it is being upgraded to a four lane freeway.

On 28 October, the second carriageway east of Saint-Antonin opened to traffic.









On 3 November, a 5 km segment of A85 will open to traffic around the Saint-Honoré-de-Témiscouata interchange.


----------



## hkskyline

* Flight instructor explains why landing a plane on Highway 407 was an ideal choice *
CityNews _Excerpt_
Oct 28, 2021

It’s an unconventional landing that has been viewed tens of thousands of times on social media, but Seneca College’s assistant chief flight instructor says the landing of an airplane on Highway 407 was the ideal choice given the emergency situation facing the pilots.

“It’s one of those scenarios that you train for every day, it’s something that we teach our students, and we talk before every takeoff about what would we do in the event of engine failure after takeoff,” Nicky Godfrey, a 30-year veteran with more than 4,000 hours of flying time, told CityNews on Thursday.

“There’s not a whole lot of areas to land around [Buttonville Municipal Airport], so picking the 407 is something many of us have discussed over the years doing that exact same thing. They did a great job putting it down on the highway just off to the side leaving room for traffic to get by.”

More : CityNews


----------



## hkskyline

*Controversial Highway 413 plays a major part in Doug Ford re-election campaign *
CityNews _Excerpt_
Nov 1, 2021

Building highways has already become a cornerstone in the campaign launched by Doug Ford’s Progressive Conservative party ahead of the 2022 Ontario election. Those opposed to projects, like the planned Highway 413 north west of Toronto, are ramping up campaigns of their own.

“The 413 is just a sprawl-inducing scheme,” said Jenni Le Forestier, a resident of Belfountain, a small town north of the proposed route. “Why isn’t Ford listening to the local municipalities that are actually affected along the route of this highway?”

Le Forestier points to the impact on farms where land would need to be expropriated and the natural environment that are considered to be the headwaters that flow into the Greater Toronto Area.

The proposed highway has been estimated to cost at least $6 billion. It would connect Highway 400 with the Highway 401/407 interchange to, a roughly 60-kilometre route connecting Vaughan to Milton.

More : CityNews


----------



## hkskyline

*Gardiner Expressway, Toronto*
(eastern end under demolition)

Everything Has An End by Greg&#x27;s Southern Ontario (Catching Up Slowly), on Flickr


----------



## smokiboy

Is the demolition complete?


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Two segments of Autoroute 85 in Québec open to traffic. A85 is the main highway to New Brunswick, it is being upgraded to a four lane freeway.
> 
> On 28 October, the second carriageway east of Saint-Antonin opened to traffic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 3 November, a 5 km segment of A85 will open to traffic around the Saint-Honoré-de-Témiscouata interchange.


I drove this stretch a couple of years ago. It was annoying gap in freeway. Is all the missing bit of A85 under construction?

BTW, latest from construction of new border crossing and bridge to Detroit, seen from Canadian side:

https://twitter.com/GordieHoweBrg


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Highway 104 in Nova Scotia (Trans-Canada Highway) will become toll-free in a few weeks, though possibly only for Nova Scotia drivers. It's not sure yet if tolls will continue for out-of-province drivers.

Highway 104 is the only general toll road in the Maritime Provinces.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/cobequid-pass-toll-highway-highway-104-1.6235881


----------



## hkskyline

* Ontario deficit rising by $5 billion; new major GTA highways and ‘staycation’ tax credit pledged *
CP24 _Excerpt_
Nov 4, 2021

The Ford government is ramping up spending ahead of the June 2022 general election, with the deficit actually projected to rise by $5 billion this year, with spending planned for health-care, two new GTA highways and a tax credit for people to vacation in Ontario.

...

Overall, spending is increasing by about $3 billion more than what was in the 2021-22 budget, in part due to spending on a raft of new measures in health-care, home-care, retirement homes, and initial work to build Highway 413 and the Bradford Bypass.

The Highway 413 project would link the Highway 401 and 407 junction to Highway 400, while the Bradford Bypass would offer an east-west link between Highway 400 and Highway 404.

More : Ontario deficit rising by $5 billion; new major GTA highways and ‘staycation’ tax credit pledged


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## hkskyline

smokiboy said:


> Is the demolition complete?


Should continue to November from this report : https://globalnews.ca/news/8181205/gardiner-expressway-closure-ramp-demolition-debris/


----------



## hkskyline

*Ford government plan to build new GTA highways imperils emissions targets, critics say *
November 6, 2021
CBC _Excerpt_

The Ontario government's plan to build a new 400-series highway in the northwestern Greater Toronto Area will drastically increase carbon emissions and make the province's climate change goals more difficult to achieve, environmental groups and transportation experts warn.

Gideon Forman, a policy analyst with the David Suzuki Foundation, said building Highway 413 will lead to more cars on the road and fewer trees to sequester carbon because it will pave over areas of the protected Greenbelt.

"Going ahead with Highway 413 is exactly the opposite from the direction that we need to be going as a province and indeed as a country," said Forman. 

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/highway-413-carbon-emissions-1.6238421


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## hkskyline

* Ford government commits to fully fund Bradford Bypass in Simcoe-York *
CityNews _Excerpt_
Nov 8, 2021

Gridlock be gone — the Ontario government is making good on its promise from last week’s economic update to relieve congestion on Hwy. 400 and some local roads in Simcoe County and York Region.

Both regions are expected to experience rapid growth over the next two decades.

The Ford government committed, Monday, to fully fund the Byford Bypass after an environmental assessment. The four-lane freeway will connect Hwy. 400 and Hwy. 404 with the aim of reducing commute times by hours each week.

Calling the highway a “no-brainer,” Premier Doug Ford explained “delivering on this and other important infrastructure projects will create good jobs, help stimulate our economy and reduce highway congestion as our government delivers on our mission of building Ontario.”

Congestion in the two regions is not a new problem.

MPP for York-Simcoe Carolyn Mulroney — who is also the Minister of Transport — said the need for the 16.2 kilometer corridor is key because gridlock is the number one complaint her constituents’ have voiced to her since she was elected in 2019.

More : CityNews


----------



## hkskyline

*Highway 401 through Toronto *


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Highway 413: the next 400-series highway for the Greater Toronto Area?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458469171885400075





Ontario Newsroom







news.ontario.ca


----------



## hkskyline

*Shorter commutes or long-term environmental damage? Brampton residents divided over Highway 413 *
CBC _Excerpt_
Nov 10, 2021

When Balkiran Dhillon drives to Brampton from Caledon for work, he faces heavy traffic and gridlock that cuts into his personal time with his family.

While he's seen the Ford government's proposed Highway 413 described as controversial and environmentally problematic, every morning and evening he wonders how much longer his commute will be as Brampton's population is expected to grow by almost 100,000 in the coming decade, according to the Region of Peel's population forecast.

Driving north-south on arterial roads or Highway 410 are his only options. The 413 would change that, he believes, as the provincial government is promising the highway will cut his commute time by 30 minutes.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/brampton-residents-highway-413-commutes-1.6242437


----------



## hkskyline

Confederation Bridge by Axel Drainville, on Flickr

Confederation Bridge by Axel Drainville, on Flickr


----------



## hkskyline

*Politics, not logic, is behind Doug Ford’s new drive to build Highway 413 *
Toronto Star _Excerpt_
Nov 12, 2021

To hear Premier Doug Ford tell it, anyone who isn’t on board with his plan to spend billions on a new highway across the top of the Greater Toronto Area must be a “downtown activist” who thinks you can just “hop on your bicycle or get behind a horse and buggy.”

Well, no.

It’s true the kind of people Ford thinks of as downtown activists aren’t wild about his plan to revive the controversial GTA West highway, also known as Highway 413, just in time for next June’s provincial election. But boy, do they ever have a lot of allies in the very areas the premier says will benefit most from his big build.

Like municipal councils in Mississauga, Vaughan, Halton Hills and Halton Region, which are on record as opposing Highway 413. And councils in Brampton, Caledon and Peel, which have called for a federal environmental assessments of the project before it gets the green light.

Listen, for example, to that noted “downtown activist” Bonnie Crombie, the mayor of Mississauga.

More : Editorial | Politics, not logic, is behind Doug Ford’s new drive to build Highway 413


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## hkskyline

*Ontario residents hold day of action against Highway 413 and Bradford Bypass *
CBC _Excerpt_
Nov 13, 2021

Ontario residents demonstrated in Mississauga on Saturday to show their opposition to provincial plans for two new highways that would destroy farmland.

The demonstrators were taking part in a day of action against Highway 413 and the Bradford Bypass. People gathered in Mississauga's Celebration Square, held handmade signs and placards, and listened to speakers decry the development planned for Ontario's Greenbelt. 

"We are here to speak up for the people of Mississauga and the people of Ontario. We're here to talk about solutions, to say yes to funding transit, to funding health care, to funding education and to say no to the ridiculous concept of a redundant highway, the 413, and to an excessive highway, the Bradford Bypass," Rahul Mehta, an organizer of the rally, told reporters.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/protest-against-highway-413-bradford-bypass-1.6248233


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Highway Thru Hell lives up to its name:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1460056034169397250


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Coquihalla Highway in British Columbia has been washed out, and a bridge collapsed. 










TikTok screencap:


----------



## annman

It has been pretty intense up here in Cascadia. It has barely stopped raining for a solid 3 to 4 weeks. We have had a atmospheric river coming up from the tropical Pacific aimed right at Vancouver and Seattle and the pattern is stuck. _This is climate change 101: weakened jetstreams due to lower pole-to-subtropics temperature differential causes extreme jetstream meandering and a difficulty to dislodge pervasive weather patterns. _


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Vancouver is now inaccessible by road from the rest of Canada. All highways are closed due to damage or mudslides.

All highways out of Hope are closed: Highway 1, 3 & 5. Also: Highway 99 is closed between Lilloet and Pemberton, making a northern access impossible as well. Vancouver can now only be reached from the United States (I-5 and local roads).

The ministry shared some photos:

1. Highway 1 between Lytton and Spences Bridge. 

Tank Hill on BC Highway 1 in the Fraser Canyon by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr

2. Highway 5 / Coquihalla Highway, some 20 kilometers northeast of Hope.

Washout on Highway 5 near Carolin Mine Road by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr

3. Highway 7 in the Fraser Valley

Aerial view of slide impacting BC Highway 7 near Seabird Island by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr

4. Highway 5 / Coquihalla Highway near Othello (not far outside of Hope)

Highway 5 near Othello by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Highway 1 through Abbotsford, B.C.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Massive lowland flooding is ongoing in the Abbotsford area. B.C. Highway 11 to the U.S. border is also under water.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1460722528595316738


----------



## annman

I wonder if the BC and WA governments will reach an agreement with CBSA and USCBP to allow for ease of freight passage and other supply logistics through Washington to assist keeping Vancouver, Lower Mainland & Vancouver Island connected to the rest of Canada.


----------



## hkskyline

Quite intense rain over the past few days : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-floods-tuesday-update-1.6250367


----------



## ChrisZwolle

B.C. Highway 8 is also damaged significantly. This is a somewhat less important highway than the other major road closures, linking Merritt to Spences Bridge.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461035633800105989


----------



## hkskyline

Aerial footage of the damage :

*Landslides devastate southern B.C. highways*


https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1975224899535


----------



## hkskyline

*Highway 401, Toronto*










Source : Twitter @ Peter_in_to


----------



## ChrisZwolle

B.C. Highway 8 east of Spences Bridge. Based on the photos shared by the B.C. Ministry of Transportation, this highway will likely be closed for a prolonged period of time. The photos show severe washouts and affected hillsides. This likely requires some serious geotechnical study before replacement can begin in the first place. The whole riverbed has shifted in places.










Highway 8 is also not the most critical road affected so it would likely be a somewhat lower priority than Highway 1 & 5. The current thinking is that Highway 3 could open the earliest, possibly on Sunday or early next week. Highway 99 might also open relatively quick, but Highway 1 & 5 will be closed for a long period of time, while repair work is also inhibited by the winter weather.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Construction has started on the first stage of the Autoroute A19 extension in the suburbs of Montréal. The first stage is only the interchange at Rue Saint-Saëns, including 1.5 km of future northbound A19, which is to be completed in 2023.

Press release: https://www.transports.gouv.qc.ca/f.../Pages/prolongement-aut19-travaux-lances.aspx

Report: Le prolongement de l’A19 lancé | « Une question de volonté politique », dit Bonnardel


----------



## hkskyline

*B.C. highways reopen, food systems starting to stabilize, provincial officials say *
CBC _Excerpt_
Nov 20, 2021

Round-the-clock efforts to restore key transportation and food supply lifelines in British Columbia are starting to bear fruit, the province's transportation and agriculture ministers said on Saturday.

Highway 99 reopened around noon PT with two lanes north of Pemberton to small vehicles only, with authorities still asking motorists to only travel for essential reasons such as returning to a primary home address.

"This will provide a second connection from Lower Mainland to the north, through Pemberton and Lillooet," Rob Fleming, B.C.'s minister of Transportation and Infrastructure, said at a news conference Saturday morning. "It is designed for smaller vehicles because of the terrain — nothing larger than a cube truck will be allowed on the highway."

According to a provincial government release Saturday, "checkpoints will be in place and travel restrictions will be enforced," and only vehicles weighing less than 14.5 tonnes will be allowed. Heavier trucks should take Highway 3, which reopened Friday, the release said.

"I can't stress enough that keeping this corridor open is vital to British Columbians where goods are short," Fleming said, referring to Highway 3. "People have been up day-and-night working around the clock … at an accelerated, exhausting pace."

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-gas-rationing-nov-20-1.6256871


----------



## hkskyline

*Inter-city buses helping connect B.C. families during the holidays, amid highway travel restrictions *
CBC _Excerpt_
Dec 13, 2021

With non-essential travel restrictions on highways 3 and 99 in effect through the holidays, inter-city buses are the only option for travellers in B.C.'s Interior hoping to get to and from the Lower Mainland by road.

The buses are an essential service in the province which means vaccination is not mandatory and travellers do not need an essential reason to use them.

"A lot of people haven't seen their families in a long time, " said Michael Hathaway, the owner and director of Mountain Man Mike's, "so I think it's important right now to bring families together."

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/essential-bus-travel-1.6284105


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## ChrisZwolle

*Ontario Advances Critical Road Infrastructure in the North*
_
The Ontario government is taking steps to help improve road safety and traffic flow in Northern Ontario with a 2+1 highway pilot on Highway 11 north of North Bay. The three-lane highway – with a centre passing lane that changes direction approximately every two to five kilometres – is part of the government’s plan to build Ontario by getting shovels in the ground on critical infrastructure projects _

_A 2+1 highway is a three-lane highway with a centre passing lane that changes directions approximately every two to five kilometres, separated by a barrier._






Ontario Newsroom







news.ontario.ca


----------



## ChrisZwolle

B.C. Highway 5 - Coquihalla Highway, will reopen to commercial traffic (trucks and buses) on 20 December between Hope and Merritt. Transportation minister Fleming called it 'one of the most remarkable feats of engineering in recent memory'. The temporary repairs are completed at half the original projected schedule.

The essential traffic limitation on Highways 3 & 99 will be lifted on 21 December, meaning that traffic with any purpose can use Highways 3 & 99 for travel. However Highway 99 has a 14 ton weight limit.

See this press conference with more detailed information, including a site-by-site slideshow (13:20 - 26:50)







Additionally, the ministry has provided a flyover of B.C. Highway 8 in the Nicola Valley. This road has been severely damaged, if not outright destroyed in many places.


----------



## hkskyline

* Durham Region mayors continue fight to have tolls removed from highways 412, 418 *
CTV _Excerpt_
Dec 13, 2021

The mayors of Durham Region are continuing the fight to have tolls removed from Highways 412 and 418.

Under the previous Liberal Government highways were built as part of the Highway 407 east extension, linking it with the 401.

In a letter recently submitted to Premier Doug Ford by Durham Regional Chair John Henry and all of the regions mayors, local leaders are urging the province to remove the tolls.

More : Durham Region mayors continue fight to have tolls removed from highways 412, 418


----------



## hkskyline

*Tolls lifted for Nova Scotians driving Highway 104's Cobequid Pass*
CBC _Excerpt_
Dec 16, 2021

Nova Scotians who have long grumbled about having to pay tolls on the Trans-Canada Highway into and out of the province have been given an early Christmas present.

The Cobequid Pass is no longer a pay-to-use section of Highway 104.

The Houston government quietly removed the charge for all Nova Scotia registered vehicles at 11 a.m. Thursday.

"This is an act that we called for a number of times in opposition," said Premier Tim Houston in a conference call with reporters. "We promised it during the [election] campaign and today the removal of the tolls on the Cobequid Pass became a reality."

Tolls will remain in place for non-Nova Scotia passenger and commercial vehicles.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/cobequid-pass-toll-highway-nova-scotia-1.6288094


----------



## ChrisZwolle

hkskyline said:


> Tolls will remain in place for non-Nova Scotia passenger and commercial vehicles.


Is that even legal?


----------



## hkskyline

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is that even legal?


I suppose because highways are under provincial jurisdiction, the rationale is to give the taxpayers that fund construction and operations a break, while outsiders don't have that contribution and hence have to pay tolls.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

With the toll removals, that makes the 407 and Confederation Bridge the only toll road facilities in all of Canada (at least for locals).

There are several border bridges that are tolled as well, but I'm not sure those count as they go into the US..


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is also a toll bridge on the Yellowknife Highway across the Mackenzie River in the Northwest Territories. But that toll is only for trucks. 

And maybe you can count the Icefields Parkway as a toll road. Or at least you need to pay an entrance fee.


----------



## Calvin W

There are still toll bridges in Canada. A few in Ontario crossing the border to the US are tolled.


----------



## hkskyline

* Winter storm warnings for Interior mountain highways continue *
Global News _Excerpt_
Dec 18, 2021

Residents in B.C.’s Southern Interior woke up to a fresh, thick layer of snow covering the ground on Saturday, along with updated winter storm warnings from Environment Canada.

According to the national weather agency, mountain passes in B.C.’s Southern Interior will continue to see heavy snowfall, courtesy of the Pacific frontal system that began moving inland Friday night.

“A strong Pacific frontal system is moving across the region today,” said Environment Canada, noting heavy snow will bring hazardous winter conditions across local highways.

Snowfall is expected to ease near midnight, and motorists are being advised to consider postponing non-essential travel until conditions improve.

More : B.C. weather: Winter storm warnings for Interior mountain highways continue | Globalnews.ca


----------



## hkskyline

* Coquihalla Highway reopens to commercial traffic *
CBC _Excerpt_
Dec 20, 2021

The Coquihalla Highway has reopened to commercial traffic and inter-city buses a month after it was significantly damaged by floods and mudslides.

The arterial route that connects Metro Vancouver and the Fraser Valley to the B.C. Interior was damaged in more than 20 places after mudslides in mid-November knocked out multiple bridges.

The highway had been closed to all travel since Nov. 15.

Effective Monday, the Coquihalla, also known as Highway 5, is available to commercial vehicles with a minimum licensed gross vehicle weight (GVW) of 11,794 kilograms.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-floods-update-dec-15-1.6292164


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Ontario Opens Newly Expanded Highway 69*

_23 December 2021
_
*Critical road infrastructure supports economic growth and job creation in the North*
_
Today, the Ontario government opened a 14-kilometre expansion of Highway 69 in the French River area. The newly widened highway from two to four lanes will help improve traffic flow and safety, and support economic growth and prosperity in Northern Ontario. 

The new lanes on Highway 69 extend from north of Highway 522 to north of Highway 607. The expansion also includes two new interchanges.

This 14-kilometre section of Highway 69 widening is part of a project to widen a total of 152 kilometres of Highway 69 from Parry Sound to Sudbury. The final 68-kilometre section of widening between French River and Parry Sound is in the engineering and property acquisition phase._

Press release: Ontario Newsroom


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A massive pileup involving 70 vehicles occurred on Autoroute 40 near Yamachiche, not far from Trois-Rivières:









Carambolage sur l’autoroute 40 | Au moins 70 véhicules impliqués et plusieurs blessés


Au moins 70 voitures seraient impliquées dans un carambolage ayant eu lieu samedi après-midi sur l’autoroute 40 en direction est à la hauteur de Yamachiche, en Mauricie. La mise en portefeuille d’un camion serait à l’origine de l’accident qui a fait plusieurs blessés, selon la Sûreté du Québec.




www.lapresse.ca


----------



## hkskyline

* Driving B.C. home: Behind the scenes at the province's transportation management centre *
CBC _Excerpt_
Dec 26, 2021

It's a snowy day in December, one month after historic rain and flooding caused chaos on B.C.'s highway network, and government agencies are issuing further travel and weather warnings.

But at the headquarters of DriveBC, a communications arm of the Ministry of Transportation that provides up-to-date road and travel information for drivers province-wide, all seems calm.

Since a series of storms in mid-November destroyed at least 200 sites on highways in the Lower Mainland and the Interior, government officials have been constantly reminding travellers to check DriveBC's website and Twitter accounts for the latest road news.

Inside the Transportation Management Centre (TMC) in Coquitlam, on the edge of the roaring Trans-Canada Highway, are the people working around the clock to help make that happen. And while the stakes are high, the energy is almost peaceful.

DriveBC may seem like an automated system, but it has TMC agents like Aidan Mouellic, who are responsible for pulling the trigger on tweets and changing the messaging on over 150 electronic traffic signs province-wide.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/inside-drive-bc-1.6296363


----------



## hkskyline

* B.C. extends state of emergency into new year due to flood-damaged highways *
CBC _Excerpt_
Dec 27, 2021

B.C. is extending its provincial state of emergency by two weeks as multiple highways remain damaged from November's catastrophic floods.

With two major highways still under repair and a continued need for public safety measures, the state of emergency has been extended until the end of the day on Jan. 11, 2022.

"While significant progress has been made in recovery and repair efforts, there is still more to do to reopen our highways and get people back into their homes," said Mike Farnworth, minister of public safety.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-state-of-emergency-floods-1.6298920


----------



## hkskyline

* Significant snowfall expected on Coquihalla, Trans-Canada and Highway 3 *
Global News _Excerpt_
Dec 31, 2021

Motorists are being warned that heavy snow is expected to blanket Southern Interior mountain passes this weekend.

“A winter storm moving across B.C. will begin to spread snow to the highways over southern B.C. beginning Saturday afternoon,” Environment Canada said in a special weather statement.

“The snow will continue into Sunday and begin to ease off early Monday morning.”

More : Significant snowfall expected on Coquihalla, Trans-Canada and Highway 3 | Globalnews.ca


----------



## hkskyline

*'A new chapter': Major span of Champlain Bridge dismantled and taken away*
Montreal Gazette _Excerpt_
Jan 8, 2022

Residents of the South Shore got a rare sight Friday as crews dismantled the first part of the old Champlain Bridge’s superstructure and hauled it up the river on two massive barges.

The 2,200-tonne, 117.5-metre span is the largest piece to date to be removed from the old bridge. The process was expected to take as long as 24 hours, and began by shoring up the section to ensure it would stay in one piece after it was removed. It was detached overnight Thursday from the rest of the superstructure and lifted up on devices called strand jacks that are used for extremely heavy loads.

Throughout the day Friday, it was gradually lowered from its 33-metre height to water level, where two massive barges waited. It was to be towed upstream to a facility in Brossard, where it will be dismantled this spring so the steel can be reused for a future project.

More : 'A new chapter': Major span of Champlain Bridge dismantled and taken away


----------



## hkskyline

* 'Just trying to remain calm': Some stuck on Highway 401 in Toronto for more than 8 hours as storm wallops city*
CBC _Excerpt_
Jan 17, 2022

When airport taxi driver Sukhi Sidhu set out on Highway 401 in Toronto at about 7 a.m. Monday, he had no idea he'd be sitting there stranded, unable to move an inch, for more than eight hours and counting.

Sidhu was on his way to pick up a customer in Scarborough, Ont., getting onto the highway heading east at about 7 a.m.

It was "total whiteout conditions," he said. But he had a client to pick up who needed to get to the airport. The smaller roadways were a write-off, he said, so he was certain the highway would be his best bet.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/dvp-gardiner-closure-blizzard-1.6317614


----------



## hkskyline




----------



## hkskyline

* Coquihalla Highway reopening to regular traffic between Hope and Merritt*
CBC _Excerpt_
Jan 18, 2022

A section of the Coquihalla Highway will reopen on Wednesday following reconstruction after extensive flood damage, according to the B.C. government.

Transportation Minister Rob Fleming made the announcement about the section of Highway 5 between Hope and Merritt on Tuesday morning. 

The ministry says temporary repairs to the route are now in place while it plans permanent fixes for damaged sections.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-highway-update-1.6319192


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Highway 1 through the Fraser Canyon reopens to traffic today. They built a temporary bridge across a washout.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1485689104104779776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1485692474072907779


----------



## hkskyline

* Highway 1 through Fraser Canyon reopens to all vehicle traffic, delays expected*
CBC _Excerpt_
Jan 24, 2022

A critical section of the Trans Canada highway has reopened to vehicle traffic after suffering severe flood damage and closing in mid-November.

According to a statement from the B.C. government, Highway 1 through the Fraser Canyon reopened at noon on Jan. 24. The corridor has been closed since Nov. 14 following relentless rains and extreme flooding.

The Ministry of Transportation says 18 sites between Hope and Spences Bridge were impacted, including four that required extensive repairs to reopen.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/highway-1-reopening-1.6325654


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Ontario Government Removing Tolls on Highways 412 and 418*
_
The Ontario government is restoring fairness and cutting costs for drivers and businesses in Durham Region by permanently removing tolls on Highways 412 and 418, effective April 5, 2022. 

Highways 412 and 418 are currently the only tolled north-south highways in Ontario. Removing tolls will provide more travel options for local residents, relieve gridlock on local roads across Durham Region, and help improve economic competitiveness for local businesses._

Full press release: Ontario Newsroom


----------



## hkskyline

*'Roller coaster ride' weather sets records, washes out roads and brings snow around N.L. *
CBC _Excerpt_
Feb 19, 2022

Strong winds, rain, flooding and large snowfalls have broken weather records and left some roads damaged or closed around Newfoundland and Labrador on Saturday.

"It's been a roller coaster ride for sure," said Rodney Barney, a meteorologist at Environment Canada's Weather Office in Gander. 

...

According to the province's Department of Transportation and Infrastructure Twitter account, the Trans-Canada Highway remains closed approximately six kilometres west of Route 490, also known as the Stephenville Access Road. The department said traffic can reach the Stephenville area via Routes 490 and 461.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/roller-coaster-ride-weather-nl-feb-19-1.6358096


----------



## ChrisZwolle

20 semi trucks crashed on the Trans-Canada Highway in western Manitoba yesterday. The road was reported to be extremely icy. 

Manitoba is used to winter weather and they had a lot more snow this winter than in previous years. 20 semis is quite a lot considering traffic flow is usually quite light in Manitoba.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496934571035738115


----------



## hkskyline

hkskyline said:


> *'A new chapter': Major span of Champlain Bridge dismantled and taken away*
> Montreal Gazette _Excerpt_
> Jan 8, 2022
> 
> Residents of the South Shore got a rare sight Friday as crews dismantled the first part of the old Champlain Bridge’s superstructure and hauled it up the river on two massive barges.
> 
> The 2,200-tonne, 117.5-metre span is the largest piece to date to be removed from the old bridge. The process was expected to take as long as 24 hours, and began by shoring up the section to ensure it would stay in one piece after it was removed. It was detached overnight Thursday from the rest of the superstructure and lifted up on devices called strand jacks that are used for extremely heavy loads.
> 
> Throughout the day Friday, it was gradually lowered from its 33-metre height to water level, where two massive barges waited. It was to be towed upstream to a facility in Brossard, where it will be dismantled this spring so the steel can be reused for a future project.
> 
> More : 'A new chapter': Major span of Champlain Bridge dismantled and taken away


2/27

Old Champlain bridge by Mark Brandon, on Flickr

Old Champlain bridge by Mark Brandon, on Flickr


----------



## hkskyline

*Saskatchewan sees nearly 5 times more highway closures this year than 2021 *
Global News _Excerpt_
Mar 8, 2022 

Poor winter weather has forced the Saskatchewan Ministry of Highways to close nearly five times as many highways this winter than during the winter prior.

Statistics, provided by the ministry, show it closed 854 highways throughout the entire winter of 2020-21.

So far it’s closed more than 1,900 highways this year because of bad conditions.

In an interview, ministry spokesperson Steve Shaheen told Global News the 300-strong fleet of vehicles are working to keep highways clear, but there is only so much sand and salt will do — especially during strong winds.

“When there’s strong winds it creates ground drifting, those are the most challenging aspects for crews,” he said.

More : Saskatchewan sees nearly 5 times more highway closures this year than 2021 | Globalnews.ca


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## ChrisZwolle

Someone in Manitoba echoed a similar sentiment, they had a lot of blizzards this winter.


----------



## hkskyline

* Ontario plan for GTA transportation includes 'conceptual' transit lines, new highways *
CP24 _Excerpt_
Mar 10, 2022 

Ontario's 30-year vision to grow transportation networks around Toronto includes highway expansions and potential new transit networks, though many elements of the plan are not fully costed.

Premier Doug Ford, who will be seeking re-election with his Progressive Conservatives in June, announced the long-term plan on Thursday at a location along the route of the planned Highway 413, a key plank of his government's road expansion proposal.

The public hasn't been shown a full cost for that project, or for the planned Bradford Bypass highway, another previously announced element of the wide-ranging but vague transportation development plan.

“A province that is growing as fast as ours needs a transportation network to support it,” Ford said in Woodbridge, Ont. 

“We need more roads, more highways, more options to get around, and that's exactly where we're putting your money.”

The province said the Greater Golden Horseshoe region - which stretches to Georgian Bay in the north, south to Lake Erie, west to Wellington County and Waterloo Region and east to Peterborough - is expected to grow to 15 million people by 2051, from the current population of 10 million.

More : Ontario plan for GTA transportation includes 'conceptual' transit lines, new highways


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## hkskyline

* Highway 50 widening to 4 lanes over next decade, Quebec government says *
CBC _Excerpt_
Mar 14, 2022 

A 96-kilometre stretch of the highway that connects the Outaouais region to central Quebec will be widened from two lanes to four over the next decade, the Quebec government announced Monday.

The province said the widening of Highway 50 between L'Ange-Gardien and Mirabel, Que., is set to be completed by 2032. Work to widen the stretch between Gatineau, Que., and the municipality of L'Ange-Gardien began in January.

Local residents and politicians have been calling for the highway to be widened for years.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/highway-50-widening-1.6384439


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## hkskyline

* Investigation into Doug Ford’s Highway 413 push earns Hillman nod*
Toronto Star _Excerpt_
Mar 15, 2022 

Four reporters have earned an honourable mention from the prestigious Sidney Hillman Foundation for their series that investigated the Ford government’s relentless push to build Highway 413.

In a collaborative effort, Toronto Star reporter Noor Javed, Torstar reporters Sheila Wang and Steve Buist and National Observer reporter Emma McIntosh pulled the curtain back on Ontario Premier Doug Ford and his government’s ties to eight developers who had vast holdings along the planned route of the contentious highway project.

The 2022 Hillman Prize winner and two honourable mentions were announced Tuesday. The Walrus magazine won the top prize for an investigation into the business of international education and Société Radio-Canada received the other honourable mention for a documentary looking at forced sterilization in Quebec. 

More : Investigation into Doug Ford’s Highway 413 push earns Hillman nod


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## hkskyline

* High-profile Ontarians demand halt to Highway 413, as election nears *
CBC _Excerpt_
Mar 19, 2022

A group that includes business leaders, doctors and Canada's most famous living novelist is calling on Premier Doug Ford's government to stop its plans for building Highway 413.

The call comes in a new open letter organized by the David Suzuki Foundation, provided to CBC News. The signatories say they're concerned about the future of the Greenbelt that surrounds the Greater Toronto Area. 

"We are concerned, in particular, about the threat posed by Highway 413," says the letter. "This highway would slice through the Greenbelt, destroying nearly six kilometres of forest and 75 wetlands. It would pave 2,000 acres of farmland."

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/highway-413-open-letter-to-doug-ford-1.6389569


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## hkskyline

* How subsidizing trucks to use the 407 could cost Ontario less than building Highway 413*
CBC _Excerpt_
Mar 26, 2022

Calls are growing for Premier Doug Ford's government to reduce traffic congestion by encouraging more drivers to use the 407 ETR toll highway, rather than spending billions of dollars to build the proposed Highway 413. 

The 413 would run for 60 kilometres across the northwestern part of the Greater Toronto Area and through the Greenbelt. The proposal has become a lightning rod for environmental groups who say the highway will contribute to sprawl, and all three opposition parties say they would cancel the plan if Ford's PCs are defeated in the June election. 

Opponents of Highway 413 see the 407 as an underused alternative, with great potential to lure traffic from the busiest highway in Canada, the 401. 

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/highway-413-407-etr-toll-ontario-1.6392350


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## hkskyline

* Ontario scrapping tolls on two highways starting next week*
CTV _Excerpt_
Mar 31, 2022

The Ontario government is permanently scrapping tolls on two highways starting next week.

Beginning on April 5, tolls will be removed on Highway 412 and Highway 418. The move was announced by the provincial government in February.

Highways 412 and 418 are two north-south oriented highways that connect Highway 401 to Highway 407 in Durham Region. They are currently the only tolled north-south highways in Ontario.

More : Ontario scrapping tolls on two highways starting next week


----------



## hkskyline

Gardiner Expressway by Marcanadian, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Ontario Moving Ahead with Twinning Highway 11/17 Between Thunder Bay and Nipigon*
_
*Province awards contract to get shovels in the ground this year*

The Ontario government has awarded a contract to widen Highway 11/17 from two to four lanes between Thunder Bay and Nipigon. The project, which also includes building two new bridges over Pearl River, will improve road safety, reduce travel times and create hundreds of good-paying jobs in the North. 

Teranorth Construction and Engineering will begin twinning the highway in the fall of this year with an expected completion date by 2026. The contract, valued at $107 million, includes $77 million in provincial funding and $30 million in federal funding. 
_

_Twinning 14.4 kilometres of Highway 11/17 starting east of Highway 587 easterly towards Nipigon_
_Two new bridges over Pearl River (one eastbound and one westbound)_
_New alignment of Highway 11/17 south of the existing highway at Pearl River_
_Once complete, 72 kilometres out of a total 106 kilometres on Highway 11/17 between Thunder Bay and Nipigon will be a four-lane highway._





__





Ontario Newsroom







news.ontario.ca





A major project in Northern Ontario. This stretch of highway is the only connection between Western Canada and Eastern Canada.


----------



## Venantio

Toronto roads condition is far from good. Constructions ruin the road and always make roads very bumpy, rough, even uglier and messier than unpaved roads outside the city.


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## hkskyline

*Province plans to widen five-kilometre stretch of Highway 417*
CTV _Excerpt_
Apr 21, 2022 

The Ontario government is planning to widen a five-kilometre section of the Queensway to four lanes in each direction.

Widening the stretch of Highway 417 from Maitland Avenue is part of a long-developed plan that originated before the city of Ottawa decided to run its LRT alongside the highway.

Transportation minister Caroline Mulroney made the announcement Thursday, although she did not commit to a timeline or cost estimate for the project.

More : Province plans to widen five-kilometre stretch of Highway 417


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A bike path is now planned to be built in the median of the George Massey Tunnel in Vancouver:










Previous plan:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The _Pont des Piles_ on Route 155 in Québec was closed on 3 February 2022 due to its poor condition.

They have built a cable-stayed structure to increase its load capacity. The bridge reopened 30 August 2022.

The bridge was originally built in 1978 as a concrete cantilever box girder bridge. This type of strengthening a box girder bridge is unusual, though it's not a first.

Location of the bridge: Google Maps


----------



## hkskyline

* Trans-Canada Highway detour brings traffic — and business — to Radium, B.C. *
CBC _Excerpt_
Sept 26, 2022

Starting Monday, travellers heading west along the Trans-Canada Highway from Alberta, past Golden, B.C. — or vice versa — will once again be forced to take a 90-minute detour through Radium to allow for the next stage in construction that's designed to expand lanes and decrease bends and turns on the highway near Kicking Horse.

Parks Canada says travellers will still be able to access Lake Louise, Alta., and Field, B.C., but says all through traffic must detour on Highway 93 South and Highway 95 as an alternate route.

Radium Mayor Clara Reinhardt said the detour brings another 8,000 vehicles through the small mountain village on a daily basis creating additional traffic congestion and noise.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/trans-canada-highway-detour-radium-1.6596485


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## hkskyline

* Highway 417 in downtown Ottawa again closing for more than 3 days *
CBC _Excerpt_
Sept 26, 2022

Just as it did in August, the highway over western downtown Ottawa is closing for three-and-a-half days this coming weekend.

In mid-August, Highway 417 closed in both directions so that construction workers could remove the Booth Street overpass and plop in a new one. This time, the neighbouring Rochester Street bridge is being replaced.

The same stretch of the Trans-Canada Highway will close to allow that work, between the Carling Avenue and Metcalfe Street exits.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/highway-417-closed-ottawa-schedule-detours-1.6595624


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## hkskyline

Highway 91 northbound offramp to Nordel Way by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr


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## hkskyline

IMGP4531 by B.Toronto, on Flickr


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## hkskyline

* B.C.’s Kicking Horse Canyon to reopen for Thanksgiving weekend *
Global News _Excerpt_
Oct 5, 2022

The Kicking Horse Canyon portion of the Trans Canada Highway has recently been closed for construction but it will reopen briefly this holiday weekend.

From noon on Friday, Oct. 7 to noon on Tuesday, Oct. 11, that portion of the highway will welcome travellers, the Ministry of Transportation said.

Then it’s back to an extended closure until Dec. 1 at 6 a.m., and motorists will have to take the alternate route via highways 95 and 93.

The alternate route of highways 93S and 95 adds an extra 1.5 hours or so to the typical “through” trip between Castle Junction, east of Lake Louise, Alta., and Golden, B.C.

“Highway 93S from Castle Junction to Radium Hot Springs through Kootenay National Park features the Parks Canada driving experience of beautiful vistas and abundant wildlife. To protect wildlife and people, Parks Canada applies and enforces an annual no-stopping zone in late spring as bears emerge from hibernation between Settler’s Road and McKay Creek Operations Centre above the Radium hot pools,” the ministry said in a statement.

More : B.C.’s Kicking Horse Canyon to reopen for Thanksgiving weekend | Globalnews.ca


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Permanent repairs to Highway 1 underway soon*
_
Permanent repairs to flood-damaged sections of Highway 1 through the Fraser Canyon will soon be underway, protecting the safe movement of people and goods along the corridor.

Three contracts for development and early construction work for permanent repairs on sections of Highway 1 through the Fraser Canyon have been awarded to:
_

_Eurovia VINCI Team of Companies (ECV Group) for repairs to the Falls Creek Bridge, 55 kilometres south of Spences Bridge_
_Ledcor CMI Ltd. for repairs to the Tank Hill Crossing, 23 kilometres south of Spences Bridge; and _
_Kiewit Infrastructure BC ULC for repairs to the Nicomen River Bridge, 19 kilometres south of Spences Bridge._
_The projects will be completed through a collaborative construction model where the ministry and contractor work together to complete the design and construction of the project, including sharing risks and incentives.

The construction work to return the highway to the previous capacity will begin in fall 2022 and is expected to be substantially complete in 2024._



https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2022TRAN0100-001502



This are repairs after the B.C. floods from November 2021.


----------



## hkskyline

DJI_0062 by Clement Lo, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor




----------



## hkskyline

*Flying wheel from boat trailer strikes 3 vehicles on Ontario's QEW, leaves man dead *
CBC _Excerpt_ 
Oct 18, 2022

A flying wheel hit three cars on the Queen Elizabeth Way on Tuesday, leaving one man dead and closing a stretch of the the Toronto-area highway for hours, police say.

The 77-year-old from Oakville, Ont. was pronounced dead at the scene. His passenger, a 77-year-old woman, was unhurt but taken to hospital as a precaution.

The woman had to pull the vehicle over to the side of the road after the stray wheel crashed into the driver's side, according to Sgt. Kerry Schmidt, spokesperson for the Ontario Provincial Police highway safety division.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/qew-stray-wheel-man-dead-1.6620419


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## ChrisZwolle

The spectacular Highway 1 project through the Kicking Horse Canyon in British Columbia:


BC Highway 1 - Kicking Horse Canyon Phase 4 - Construction of Frenchman's Bridge by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr


Lynx Viaduct Aerial by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr


BC Highway 1 - Kicking Horse Canyon - Phase 4 - Frenchman's from below by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr


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## hkskyline

* Mayoral hopeful Gil Penalosa promises to tear down Gardiner East, build 8,000 homes on same land *
CBC _Excerpt_
Oct 19, 2022

Calling city council's $1-billion decision to reconstruct the Gardiner Expressway East the biggest "financial fiasco" of the last eight years in Toronto, mayoral candidate Gil Penalosa said Wednesday that if elected, he would change course and build a boulevard on the valuable land.

"I think it's time to say it was a huge mistake. We need to tear down the Gardiner," said the urbanist at a morning news conference in the shadow of the elevated highway.

In 2015, the first year of incumbent mayoral candidate John Tory's time of office, council narrowly voted for a plan that would see the eastern stretch of the aging Gardiner Expressway — from Cherry Street to the Don Valley Parkway — torn down and rebuilt about 100 metres north of its former route. 

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/penalosa-gardiner-east-boulevard-tory-1.6621934


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## hkskyline

Don Valley after dusk by Phil Marion (206 million views), on Flickr


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## xzmattzx

hkskyline said:


> * Mayoral hopeful Gil Penalosa promises to tear down Gardiner East, build 8,000 homes on same land *
> CBC _Excerpt_
> Oct 19, 2022
> 
> Calling city council's $1-billion decision to reconstruct the Gardiner Expressway East the biggest "financial fiasco" of the last eight years in Toronto, mayoral candidate Gil Penalosa said Wednesday that if elected, he would change course and build a boulevard on the valuable land.
> 
> "I think it's time to say it was a huge mistake. We need to tear down the Gardiner," said the urbanist at a morning news conference in the shadow of the elevated highway.
> 
> In 2015, the first year of incumbent mayoral candidate John Tory's time of office, council narrowly voted for a plan that would see the eastern stretch of the aging Gardiner Expressway — from Cherry Street to the Don Valley Parkway — torn down and rebuilt about 100 metres north of its former route.
> 
> More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/penalosa-gardiner-east-boulevard-tory-1.6621934


Could the Gardiner Expressway be built over the train tracks from Union Station to the Don River? Building it high enough over top would free up valuable space, and still provide that continuous link of expressway. It seems like that's almost the proposal with moving it 100 meters north.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The first snow storm has hit the Canadian Prairies



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584410119915569152


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## hkskyline

* Fatal landslide blamed on old logging road raises fears about hidden risks near Canada's highways *
CBC _Excerpt_
Oct 27, 2022

At first, Brenda Diederichs only heard it — the rumbling and cracking. As boulders and mud dropped 650 metres down a steep valley slope toward the highway where she was hunkered in her car, trees snapped like pencils.

Diederichs was one of dozens of people trapped in that valley on the morning of Nov. 15, 2021, when an earlier landslide had blocked Highway 99, about 40 kilometres southwest of Lillooet, B.C.

Her son, who was travelling just ahead of her, had gotten out of his vehicle to run and help others after the first landslide. He urged his mother to get back in her car for safety. As she scrambled back to her car, they made eye contact.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/landslide-risk-service-roads-1.6628050


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## hkskyline

* Kelly McParland: The Gardiner Expressway — the perennial boogeyman of Toronto politics *
National Post _Excerpt_
Oct 22, 2022

There are themes that appear again and again in Toronto municipal elections, like running gags in a favourite sitcom, surviving through decades of mayors, councils, recessions, crises and anything else local politics can throw at them.

One popped up this week, just under the wire before Monday’s vote, when mayoral hopeful Gil Penalosa pledged that, if elected, he’d tear down the Gardiner Expressway.

The Gardiner is a strip of elevated highway that cuts across the bottom of the city, a block or two north of the lakefront. It was built 60 years ago to funnel suburban commuters into the city core as efficiently as possible, a role it still plays even though complaints began almost the day it opened.

Getting rid of it is one of those obsessions that infect urban theologists intent on notions of “livable cities,” where residents walk to work, shop on their own block and grow gardens on their rooftops.

A waterfront free of traffic would certainly be an improvement, but dynamiting the Gardiner is more a hallucination than a dream, really, like the conviction that three-million people will suddenly learn to ditch their cars and commute on bicycles, or that a ban on handguns would prevent local gangs from obtaining them.

More : Kelly McParland: The Gardiner Expressway — the perennial boogeyman of Toronto politics


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## ChrisZwolle

A new dam is being built in the Peace River west of Fort St. John, British Columbia. This is called the 'Site C Dam' for now. 

As the valley will be flooded, B.C. Highway 29 is being built on a new alignment at a higher elevation. New components of this new alignment are opened piece by piece.

A new bridge at Farrell Creek was put into service yesterday:


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## VoltAmps

ChrisZwolle said:


> The spectacular Highway 1 project through the Kicking Horse Canyon in British Columbia:
> 
> 
> BC Highway 1 - Kicking Horse Canyon Phase 4 - Construction of Frenchman's Bridge by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Lynx Viaduct Aerial by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr
> 
> 
> BC Highway 1 - Kicking Horse Canyon - Phase 4 - Frenchman's from below by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr


Chris this update is so good. Will you be there to drive the new kicking horse canyon section of highway 1 when it opens?


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## ChrisZwolle

Here's another photo:

BC Transportation says:

_Since this photo was taken mid-Oct., the remaining concrete decks have been poured. Traffic will begin using this newly-built structure in December while westbound lanes are constructed. _


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## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 8 reopens to public*
_
Highway 8 between Merritt and Spences Bridge is now open to all vehicle traffic, restoring connectivity to residents, Indigenous communities and the local forestry and mining industries.

November 2021’s heavy rains and flooding washed out more than 25 sections of the highway and rerouted some sections of the Nicola River, leading to the complete closure of the highway between Merritt and Spences Bridge. More than seven kilometres of Highway 8 was completely lost due to the event.

Numerous Thompson Nicola Regional District residences, as well as Nooaitch, Shackan and Cook’s Ferry First Nations communities, were isolated. Reopening Highway 8 reconnects rural communities, allows residents to return home and improves transportation access for various sectors, such as forestry, mining and ranching.

While temporary repairs are complete, the highway remains an active construction zone. Crews continue to install roadside barriers, place riprap (large rocks) to stabilize road embankments and process rock to undertake permanent repairs along the corridor.

Some sections of the highway have reduced speed limits and differing surface materials, including sections of gravel road, making the highway unsuitable for motorcycles. Ongoing construction will lead to delays and intermittent closures._

Full release: https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2022TRAN0114-001688

So Highway 8 is open again, a year after flooding destroyed many road sections in British Columbia. Highway 1 & 5 have been open for a while, though these repairs are temporary and require more permanent repairs in the future.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 1 expansion begins with replacing Glover Road crossing*
_
Construction is set to begin on the Province’s Highway 1 216th–264th Street Widening Project, which will help relieve congestion for drivers and accommodate more sustainable transportation options for all travellers.

The replacement of the Glover Road crossing is a key component of the government’s commitment to widen Highway 1 from 216th Street to 264th Street. This is the first of the project’s three major works contracts.

Completion of the Glover Road crossing is anticipated in summer 2024. The other elements of the widening project are expected to be tendered this winter, with work starting by spring 2023. This includes replacement of the existing railway crossing just east of Glover Road, the replacement of the 232nd Street interchange and widening Highway 1 from 216th to 264th to add an extra lane in each direction.

The Highway 1 216th–264th Street Widening Project is valued at $345 million. The Government of Canada is contributing as much as $95.9 million, the Province of B.C. is contributing $225.58 million and the Township of Langley is contributing the remaining $23.37 million._



https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2022TRAN0115-001693



This is the six lane expansion of Highway 1 east of Vancouver, into the suburbs / exurbs, in the Langley - Aldergrove area. This is a half rural, half suburban region.


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## hkskyline

TRANS-CANADA HIGHWAY #1 by Peterson Ph♡tography, on Flickr


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## hkskyline

Gardiner Expressway by Marcanadian, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*We’re twinning Highway 3*
_
Alberta’s government is moving forward with plans to twin the important Highway 3 economic corridor between Saskatchewan and British Columbia.

The province is committed to exploring options for twinning the remaining 215 kilometres of Highway 3 in Budget 2023. Now, the province is proceeding with a request for proposals for the first of eight sections of this stretch. The remaining seven sections are at various stages of project readiness. 

The eight phases of this project include:_

_*Phase 1:* 46 kilometres – A request for proposals has been issued to the shortlisted design build proponents to twin Highway 3 between Taber and Burdett. Construction is expected to start in 2023._
_*Phase 2:* 10 kilometres – Highway 3X/Coleman Bypass. Functional planning studies have been completed and detailed engineering design will begin in spring 2023._
_*Phase 3:* 15 kilometres – East of Seven Persons to Medicine Hat. Functional planning studies have been completed and detailed engineering design will begin in spring 2023._
_*Phase 4:* 47 kilometres – Blairmore to east of Highway 6 at Pincher Creek. Functional planning studies have been completed and detailed engineering design will begin in 2023._
_*Phase 5:* 28 kilometres – East of Bow Island to east of Seven Persons. Functional planning studies have been completed and detailed engineering design will begin in summer 2023._
_*Phase 6:* 23 kilometres – East of Burdett to east of Bow Island. A functional planning study has been completed and the province will continue to consult with the Town of Bow Island and other stakeholders in order to finalize the alignment._
_*Phase 7:* 38 kilometres – Pincher Creek to west of Fort Macleod. A functional planning study through Piikani Nation is underway and will continue for some time._
_*Phase 8*: Eight kilometres – Alberta-B.C. border to Highway 3X. Continued engagement with B.C. is necessary to consider alignment with improvements being planned through the B.C. portion._









We’re twinning Highway 3


Alberta’s government is moving forward with plans to twin the important Highway 3 economic corridor between Saskatchewan and British Columbia.




www.alberta.ca





This is one of the most ambitious road projects in Canada, in terms of length to be twinned - 215 kilometers.


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## hkskyline

*About 17.5K people sign petition to stop Highway 413 in Ontario *
CTV _Excerpt_
Nov 25, 2022

About 17,500 people have now signed a petition asking the federal government to intervene and stop Ontario’s plan to build Highway 413.

The David Suzuki foundation first launched a petition to halt the proposed highway last year, asking Canada’s Minister of Environment and Climate Change to put a stop to the project.

“The highway has to go through a federal impact assessment, and so we're saying to Minister (Steven) Guilbeau, ‘You need to look into this, this is a serious matter and you need to be weighing in,’” Gideon Forman, a transportation policy analyst at the David Suzuki Foundation, told CTV News Toronto.

More : About 17.5K people sign petition to stop Highway 413 in Ontario


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## Haljackey

hkskyline said:


> *About 17.5K people sign petition to stop Highway 413 in Ontario *
> CTV _Excerpt_
> Nov 25, 2022
> 
> About 17,500 people have now signed a petition asking the federal government to intervene and stop Ontario’s plan to build Highway 413.
> 
> The David Suzuki foundation first launched a petition to halt the proposed highway last year, asking Canada’s Minister of Environment and Climate Change to put a stop to the project.
> 
> “The highway has to go through a federal impact assessment, and so we're saying to Minister (Steven) Guilbeau, ‘You need to look into this, this is a serious matter and you need to be weighing in,’” Gideon Forman, a transportation policy analyst at the David Suzuki Foundation, told CTV News Toronto.
> 
> More : About 17.5K people sign petition to stop Highway 413 in Ontario


Just a note that we had a provincial election in Ontario last year. Not only did the one party that supported Highway 413 win another majority government, but ALL the ridings that the highway is planned to run through voted for the party in power this time. There may be some opposition still yes, but that election outcome solidifies overwhelming majority support for the project.


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## hkskyline

* Highway 3 twinning project to begin next spring, province says *
CBC _Excerpt_
Nov 25, 2022

The Alberta government plans to finish a major southern Alberta highway twinning project within the next decade.

At a news conference in Medicine Hat Friday, Premier Danielle Smith and Devin Dreeshen, minister of transportation and economic corridors, announced that construction will start for twinning the stretch of Highway 3 between Taber and Burdett next spring and the entire highway will be twinned within 10 years.

The province has put out a request for proposals to three shortlisted bidders for that first 46-kilometre stretch, Dreeshen said. 

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-twinning-highway-3-taber-burdett-1.6665343


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## ChrisZwolle

The Pattullo Bridge across the Fraser River in Vancouver. The pylon will be 167 meters tall.


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## hkskyline

Gardiner Expy & Lake Shore Blvd E by History in Photos, on Flickr


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## Haljackey

Highway 401 lane doubling west of Toronto now completed.






CityNews







toronto.citynews.ca


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## ChrisZwolle

*Coquihalla reopens to four lanes*
_
The Coquihalla (Highway 5) has reopened to four lanes following completion of temporary repairs at three bridge sites, a major milestone.

The completed work includes new temporary bridges for southbound traffic at the Bottletop and Jessica bridge sites, and a bridge for northbound traffic at the Juliet bridge site that will serve as the permanent southbound crossing. This work was completed by KEA5, a joint venture between Peter Kiewit & Sons and Emil Anderson Construction.

Work will continue this coming winter and into late 2023 to complete the permanent repairs. The area remains a construction zone and drivers can expect to see ongoing speed and traffic-pattern changes._

Full news release: https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2022MOTI0129-001905


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## ChrisZwolle

Québec annonce le début des travaux d’élargissement de l’autoroute%%55







www.transports.gouv.qc.ca













Les travaux d’élargissement de l’autoroute 55 commencent enfin


Le chantier prend place entre l'échangeur du boulevard des Acadiens et l'autoroute 20.



ici.radio-canada.ca





The construction has commenced to expand autoroute 55 to a four lane motorway in Québec. This 30 kilometer project is located to the approach to Trois-Rivières, which is the only river crossing between Montréal and Québec City. A55 will be expanded to four lanes, opening in stages from 2025.


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## Haljackey

Timelapse of the 401 Milton-Mississauga widening


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## hkskyline

* Truck driver responsible for sign collapse that closed Highway 401 in Whitby, police say *
CBC _Excerpt_
Jan 6, 2023

A transport truck travelling with its box raised collided with a sign over Highway 401 westbound in Whitby Friday morning, police say, causing the entire structure to "buckle and collapse" and block traffic for hours.

The initial collision happened near the Brock Street exit shortly before rush hour.

Ontario Provincial Police Sgt. Kerry Schmidt said the driver of the truck — which he described as a "scrap hauler" — continued for about 100 metres up the highway before stopping. The driver then dropped the box and exited onto Brock Street, according to Schmidt.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/highway-401-sign-falls-1.6705589


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## hkskyline

*24-year-old Truck driver who crashed into, brought down overhead sign on Highway 401 located and charged: police *
CTV _Excerpt_
Jan 6, 2023

The 24-year-old driver of a truck that crashed into and subsequently brought down an overhead sign on Highway 401 Friday morning has been located and charged, Ontario Provincial Police say.

Officials said that just before 8 a.m., a truck collided with the sign on a stretch of highway near Brock Street in Whitby, causing it to “buckle and collapse.”

“You can see the impact mark here on the sign where a transport truck collided with the sign and part of the cross member here as well,” OPP Sgt. Kerry Schmidt said in a video posted to social media shortly after the incident.

More : 24-year-old Truck driver who crashed into, brought down overhead sign on Highway 401 located and charged: police


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