# Northern France, Belgium and a bit of Germany by a Yank



## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

For two weeks in May I travelled to northern France, Belgium, and a bit of Germany hoping to see those countries (all for the first time) and check out a bit of the things I obsess about: industrial history, military history, canals, and 19th century buildings in general.

As a result of my trip to northern England I had come to love these types of trips (for the trip to England see here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1455347 ). However, I didn’t know what to expect in France and Belgium and I was rather nervous as I don’t speak a word of French or Flemish. Not to mention, the French are not reputed to be friends of American tourists.

But on May 4th I got on a plane and gave it a shot. Please keep in mind, this is a trip report. The photography here is for illustrative purposes, it doesn’t pretend to be great photography. I am an amatuer photographer with a simple Kodak camera and an Iphone. Some of the pictures will have obvious problems such as window glare: the point is what they show, not the quality of the pictures.

Also, sometimes plans changed for various reasons and I didn’t always get to see the sites I expected to see. But no worries, not only did I get to see lots of touristy stuff but I also saw lots of the very interesting stuff I really like as you will see in the course of this trip report.

Soooooo, on the morning of May 5th I found myself flying over the countryside of France close on route to Paris:


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The stand out of that first glimpse of France were the colorful yellow fields:


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Now, note in addition to the beautiful yellow color how precise and perfect the vehicle lines are in the fields. Ah, the French - it isn’t enough to simply grow a crop, they have to be artistic about it too.


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No pictures of Charles DeGaulle airport - it is a concrete monstrasity. I got a cab to the suburb of St. Maurice where I would be staying with a French family. After settling in a bit they took me to the local metro station so I could go into the city and get oriented.


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A rather clever machine. You push buttons of where you are and where you want to go and it shows you the route. Unfortunately, I never saw one that actually worked.

Given that they put metal doors by the turnstiles you can’t simply jump over them like people do in New York. 


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The metro itself was pretty clean and the stations were in good condition.

My first destination was the Notre Dame cathederal and I got off on a major shopping street close to there:


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Lots of on street bike rental places:


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Looking for the island that Notre Dame is on I headed immediately for the river. The Seine river turned out to be very different than I imagined, but more on that later.


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I have no recollection of what this building is at all. One of the things about Paris is that you can be lost half the time and have no idea what you are looking - you simply know that it is spectacular.


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Then I saw my first police vehicle. Pretty dull compared to the flourescent colors I had seen in Britain. The Gendarmerie are military police I later learned.


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There were lots of them all over the place though - I think it was related to the election scheduled for the next day.


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ok, here you can see what surprised me about the Seine River. I had always thought the Seine was some gentle river slowly and romantically meandering through Paris. It was anything but. As you can note from the waves this thing had a very serious current. I can’t say for sure how fast it was going but it was quite fast. Not only much faster than anyone can swim but faster than one could walk. You would have to run fairly quickly along the shore to keep up with it. 

If you fell in this river you were in very serious trouble. You would definitely be swept way down stream before you managed to get out - if you got out. It also looks like a hazerdous place to operate a boat but there were all sorts of large tourist craft on it. I asked if they have have spectacular crashes into bridges or each other but people said no.


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The current is so strong you clearly see “standing” waves.

After a bit I came to Notre Dame. Not the biggest church I have ever seen, but definitely quite nice.


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I didn’t dare take a picture of them until they passed me but note the two soldiers above with combat fatigues, machine guns and funny looking berets. Also, you can note the place is full of tourists. There were so many I didn’t even try going inside the cathederal.


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Interesting looking old canal/river cargoe barges.


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There were lots of bookstores everywhere I traveld. This one focused on Jules Verne.


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At this point I had left the island and was on the other side of the river - I think this qualifies as being the “Latin Quarter”. Note the beautiful tan/biege apartment buildings. They were all built in the 1800s as Napolean III’s main architect was given permission to tear down much of Paris and rebuild it. Probably more than anything else these buildings are now the defining image of Paris in my mind.


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I’m rather curious as to where exactly those stairways think they are going.


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The boat isn’t actually going as fast as that bow wave suggests. Rather it is going against the fast current.

Then I went back over to the other side of the Seine where I had no idea what I was looking at, only that it was beautiful.


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From the dates I am guessing this is about WWII


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World War I


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Back on the busy shopping avenue.


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A little demonstration that was making a lot of noise


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There were some political posters, but not that many.


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When I saw how strong the river was I became curious if they ever had big floods. I ran across some old pictures which seemed to indicate they do:


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I was actually now in a little plaza where I had to take refuge from the rain. I saw this very big and important looking building but at the time I had no idea what it was.


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After the rain passed I continued down the avenue which now had imposing buildings on both sides.


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An interesting shop window.

I then saw a large arch that lots of people were walking through and I decided to check it out. Emerging on the other side I found this:


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I found myself in the middle of the Louvre art museum complex. This was the first sign that Paris was going to be much larger than I had imagined. On the tourist maps the Louvre is shown as a small building, something like the Metropolitan in New York. It is nothing of the sort. It is a gigantic and awe inspiring complex that is simply impossible to capture with pictures (that didn’t stop me from trying though).


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Thus were my first few hours in Paris. The remainder of Day 1 will be in the next post.


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## hhhhh (Oct 28, 2009)

Simply amazing pictures.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Day 1 continued....


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Between the Louvre and the Plaza Concorde is a huge plaza/park. I had wanted to get to Plaza Concorde but it was simply too far away and I wanted to get back to my guests home before dark.


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Back to the metro:


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Note the car above has some grafitti on it. On this trip I was to see LOTS of graffitti. 


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This is a typical metro passageway. Some, such as those at the Batille station were quite long and maze like. But they are no harder to find your way around than those in New York so I didn’t have a problem

In some stations they have glass bariers to keep people from falling into the tracks


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The “next train” signs were appreciated:


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The Bastille station had some tile work commemorating what had happened there:


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Pretty much all the underground stations I saw looked like this. They were tunnels with arched roofs. No “cut and cover” stations with all the ugle steel beams like NYC.


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I didn’t like the interior of the cars though. They used all the space for seating which means they filled up very quickly with not much of any place to stand.


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Ok, here is another negative to the French metro. Reading the map of the metro isn’t easy. To know which metro you should take you have to follow the line all the way to the end on the map and then go in the direction indicated by the name of the last station. That is harder than it sounds because the metro has many lines which zig zag all over the place so tracing a particular line to the end can be challenging.

As if that weren’t bad enough check out the size of the map inside this metro car. It is absurdly small. There is no way you could read it so it was worthless. If they are going to use such small maps they should at least give you a magnifying glass so you can read it 


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My station


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St. Maurice. This is an older suburb that borders right on Paris proper.


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Liberty, Equality, Fraternity - I was to see that everywhere.


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Very strange. Those look like palm trees - but how can they be so far north?


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After a two kilometer walk I got to my hosts home where I finished the evening and rested for a very busy day 2. Already I knew that I was up against a bigger city than I had expected and it was going to take a lot of effort to take it all in.


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## Linguine (Aug 10, 2009)

thank you for sharing your wonderful photos...kay:


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## Tchek (Oct 8, 2010)

Thanks, I'm waiting for the Belgian pictures :cheers:


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## De Klauw (Apr 20, 2006)

Unfortunately lots of pictures are not visible to me. Flickr says 'this image or video is currently unavailable'.


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks for your very nice photos from France (city of Paris); i am looking forward for more


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

Looking forward to this thread after your northern England trip!

We also have loads of bright yellow fields here in central england at this time of year, it's rapeseed.

I wouldn't be surprised to see palm trees in Paris as we have them up here which is a few hundred kms further north.

It is indeed a big city, with 11m+ in the wider metro area , I love walking around it, there seems to be something interesting around most corners. kay:


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## Benonie (Dec 21, 2005)

Looks promising, but I can hardly see half of the pictures.... hno:


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## WC_EEND (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm have the same issue as De Klauw and Benonie have unfortuntately, and I'm really interested in your Paris pictures (and the ones you took in Belgium as well obviously)


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Yup, I can't see most of the pictures even though they are in Flikr fine and they all showed when originally posted. I have e-mailed them to find out what is happening.

Mainly fixed now by recopying the links one by one. I think somehow the tags shifted or something when I uploaded additional photos. Flikr is a pain.


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

You can click on the name of the picture and it will open in flickr.... It's better to see them directly here but you can still do it.

Anyways, thanks for sharing your vision of the city. Commented pictures are always so much better than thrown out photos that are completely out of context. Look forward to the rest of the thread.


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## WC_EEND (Jan 31, 2011)

^^ true, I don't mind doing so for a few pictures, but it becomes annoying if we are talking about this much pictures. 
That said, it appears to be mostly fixed and I really enjoyed seeing your pictures. Made me look forward to my trip to Paris in June even more.


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## South Central (May 20, 2009)

Great thread. And as said before, keep commenting your photos, that's what makes it really interesting !


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Day two was my first full day in Paris. I started out with the 2 kilometer walk to the metro.


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An old military police building. Of course, it has the usual saying above the doorway.


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Never quite figured out what that above was. I think it was the governmental area of St. Maurice.


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The local war memorial. They always seemed to have fresh flowers at monuments. Though in part this may be because the holiday of victory in WWII was coming up.


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The local elementary school was used as a polling station. This was an election day and I was tempted to go in but didn’t dare.


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A very strange looking pine tree. Not sure if it grows that way naturally or is pruned to be like that.


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A war memorial right by the metro station.


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ok, this building I was very curious about but I could never figure it out. It looks like a church, and in fact it has the statues of the Apostles on it - so it must be/have been a church. BUTTTTT, it has the French Revolution slogan of Liberty, Equality, Fraternity and if you look closely at the pictures you will see where it says “Communal Property”. 

So what is it? Is it a church taken over by the government? If so, when and why?


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Note the revolutionary slogans


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Buttttt, those statues aren’t Voltaire or Robespierre - they are Saint Luke and Saint Mathew of Biblical fame. Very interesting.

Next I headed into the metro


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A better picture of the machine to help you find your way. As I said, though, it didn’t work.


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Just the thing to make me feel like I was at home in New York - homeless people sleeping in the metro.


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I got off the metro at Plaza Concorde which is where they guillotened people in the French Revolution. However, they didn’t have any plaques marking that that I could see.


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I am going to send an e-mail to Bloomberg. Why can’t New York get light poles like this?


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Just another spectacular building - no idea what it was.


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I think someone conquered Egypt and all Paris got was this oblisk.


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My first look down the Champ-Elysees. The first part of it is actually park like, only closer to the Arch does it become commercial.


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A overview of the Plaza.


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Note the mini Sphynx.

Next I started heading down the Champ-Elysees to get to the Arc du Triumph.


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Before I got very far I stumbled across a couple of amazing buildings that were museums. I had no idea what they were and I don’t think they were very famous by Parisian standars but in almost any other city they would be the prime attraction.


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Neither one was open so I couldn’t go inside.


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Who says the French and Brits don’t get along - a statue of Winston Churchill.


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I don’t think I’ve ever been to a major city that didn’t have a Simon Bolivar statue.


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The building with the gold dome is Invalides where I would be visiting later in the day.


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Charles DeGualle


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The weather was cloudy and rainy but the upside to that was the city was very green.


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Unlike the British, the French fly their flag everywhere and it great numbers. I like that. It served to give a needed dash of color and of course showed their pride in their great country.


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Here begins the commercial part that we are used to seeing on TV and in the movies.


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A view down the side streets. They probably should make the signs smaller and less overpowering but it is still nice.


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There were of course lots of luxurious restaraunts and stores.


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The Arch was very imposing and impressive. But figuring out how to get through all the traffic and over to it was a bitch. It took a while to find the pedestrian tunnel.


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If I remember correctly I think this was the embassy of Qatar which was across the street.


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The names of French generals who had participated in various military campeigns.


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The eternal flame for the Unknown Soldier.


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I didn’t realize before visiting that you can go to the top of the Arch but you can and as there was no line to go up I did.


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Once on top you see broad boulevards radiating out in all directions. The one above goes to La Defense which is the main business district in Paris.


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Looking back towards the Plaza Concorde. On a grey and dreary day the green trees really stand out.


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The modern arch in La Defense.


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Funny, but I guess with photoshop I can’t even say this proves I’ve been there :-(


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It was still early and I had a lot left to see. Paris was bigger and more spread out than I had realized. In the next set of photos it will be off to the Eiffel Tower.

Day Two to be continued...


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## weirdo (Feb 15, 2003)

All the pics showed up in my screen. Wonderful tour. Can't wait to see the rest of your photos.


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## Mike____ (Mar 15, 2009)

Great pictures! 
btw, I recommend to post like max 10 pics in one post instead of a few million.. otherwise the pages will be very loooooong!


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## Puinkabouter (Jan 8, 2007)

It's one of the biggest (and one of the most densely populated) cities in Europe and the world, can't really be that big a surprise that distances are sometimes a bit long  Despite its vastness I think it's still fairly easy to move through Paris fast, if you know your way around the metro and RER systems.

Those two amazing buildings you saw at the beginning of the Champs-Elysées aren't that random, even by Parisian standards. They are the Grand Palais and the Petit Palais (Great Palace and Small Palace). They are exposition halls that were erected for the Universal Exposition that was held in Paris in 1900. Chanel frequently holds its fashion shows there.

I like this thread, and especially your comments. You have a fresh way of looking at things


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## WC_EEND (Jan 31, 2011)

600West218 said:


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> 
> Never quite figured out what that above was. I think it was the governmental area of St. Maurice.


Mairie means "town hall" in French, so you were quite close


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

600West218 said:


> I have no recollection of what this building is at all. One of the things about Paris is that you can be lost half the time and have no idea what you are looking - you simply know that it is spectacular.
> 
> 
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It is Paris High Court.



600West218 said:


> Then I went back over to the other side of the Seine where I had no idea what I was looking at, only that it was beautiful.
> 
> 
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It is Paris City Hall.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Thanks for the explanation of what those buildings are!


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Day 2 continued

After the Arc de Triomphe I set up to the Eiffle Tower.


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I saw a number of these scooters with two front wheels. Seems like a strange concept to me. I would think they would handle poorly but apparently not.


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I don’t ever get tired of these apartment buildings.


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After going through a couple very bland art museum buildings there it is...


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From this distance it definitely looked nice, but only when I got closer would I truly appreciate how special it is


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I couldn’t figure out what these missile shaped things were. If they were water fountains I never saw them turned on.


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Looking back at one of the mediocre museum buildings. You can see all the “missiles” poised as if they are about to blow up the tower.


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To get to the Eiffel Tower I had to cross over the Seine River. I walked along it to check out some boats.

Again, note how strong the current is. The people who operate boats on this river really earn their money. One mistake and you could easily crash into a bridge.


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Kind of a mini business district in the distance.


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Next I walked right under the tower. In pictures we often only see the top part of it. But in my opinion it is actually the bottom of it that is most interesting. There are four huge steel pillars supporting it and they are truly massive. Yet none of the individual steel beams seems that big - it is a huge amount of interwoven small steel beams that makes up most of the tower. 

You know you’ve done a good job of engineering something when you create something that is not only functional but beautiful as well. The Eiffel Tower DEFINITELY falls into that category. Pictures don’t do it justice...


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Note all the steel work that actually looks like a fine tapestry!


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Around the side are names of famous Frenchmen - mainly mathematicians and scientists from what I could see.

The lines to go up it were absurdly long - about 3 hours. So I decided I wouldn’t attempt to go up it today and would come back another day early in the morning.

On the opposite side of it is a huge mall leading to Ecole Militar or the old military academy. I headed down it as that was the way to the military museum.


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Looking towards the Ecole Militar. That tall building behind it is really out of place!


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A multi lingual peace memorial


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This is the best looking police vehicle I had seen thus far. Still not up to British standards though.


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Finally, I found may may through some confusing streets to Invalides. This is a huge complex built under Napolean to house indigent and disabled war veterans. It is now the Army Museum which I was going to visit. In the church part is the tomb of Napolean.


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I got my ticket and quickly headed into the museum.


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A French tank from WW I


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Lots of old cannons around the courtyard.


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Not exactly a small complex, is it?


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Looks like Napolean himself:


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Inside the museum there was a really nice collection of art depicting late 19th Century warefare:


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I am sort of surprised that this was painted and not later destroyed. It certainly make warefare look glorious.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The rest of the museum was fairly good. Definitely better than the Imperial War Museum of the North in Manchester, but not necessarily world class. The main artifacts they had were light arms and uniforms. No heavy weaponry. So it is worth seeing if you are already in Paris but it shouldn’t be the reason you go to Paris.

Next I headed to the cathederal


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Napoleans tomb.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Fresh flowers as always.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I next headed out, hopefully in the direction of the Pantheon. I walked down a huge mall.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Of course, the mall was lined with sumptious apartment buildings.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

These are public toilets that the city government has put around the city. They were pretty well kept and saved me on a couple of occasions.

It turns out, I wasn’t headed in the right direction and soon realized I was lost. Thankfully, in Paris you can be completely lost and still run into really nice things.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

An elevated metro line. Not much of the metro is elevated but some of it is. There was a map there that I used to get headed back in the right direction.


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A pediatric hospital. I was in too much of a rush to go inside.


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They are building a whole new section to it.


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Not great, but not bad either.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

They even have scooters with tops on them. A BMW no less!!


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Some of the Haussman era apartment buildings were fancier than others. Some even had gates that prevented you from going in.

These were all constructed by the government, and presumably paid for by the government, in the 19th century. Yet they are now all private. I’m not sure how that happened.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Simply amazing. I guess they have some sort of a courtyard where it widens out? I never did go in one of these buildings.


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Some ambulances being escorted. Better but still not as good as the British ones.


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This was at one end of a park - I think the Luxenburg Park.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Back out on the city streets I noticed this plaque which seemed to be dedicated to someone who fought to liberate Paris in WW II - maybe a French resistance fighter?


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Nearby I saw this building full of apparent bullet holes. I don’t think there was ever much fighting in Paris proper - again maybe some resistance fighters got in a shoot out with the Germans.


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Nice doors:


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Back in Luxemburg park.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I believe this is the French Senate building.


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Lots of little radio controlled sailboats on the pond.


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Finally I made it to the Pantheon!!


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Unfortunately it was closing just as I arrived so I couldn’t go in today. Another thing I’d have to come back to.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Across from the Pantheon


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This was a church right behind the Pantheon that I had been determined to find and visit - I was lucky to just stumble on to it!! The reason I wanted to see it is it is the final resting place of Blaise Pascal.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Back outside I decided to head back down towards the river and Notre Dame.

On the way I came across the Soborne


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Note the observatory.

This is one of the things that was actually much smaller than I had expected. Instead of having a massive campus to go along with its world renowned reputation it was just one city block, albeit a big city block.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I kept heading down towards the river through an area with lots of restaraunts and hotels. The Latin Quarter I guess?


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This I passed a number of times thinking it was some kind of court building. Turns out it is an old fortress open to the public. Another thing for a future trip...


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

A lot of media was around waiting for the results of the election.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

After crossing the river I headed up to the the Pompiduo Center:


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

It sure does stand out


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

As it was open to the public without charge I went inside. Looks like an artistic rendition of Occupy Wall Street.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
An interesting looking government building


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Next I happened by a place that had WiFi and found out via a web site that Hollande had won the election and that people gathered in the Bastille to celebrate. I actually changed between the #8 and #1 line at the Bastille so I decided to head to the metro and see if I could find the celebration.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

In the metro again. Even though there aren’t that many people it looks crowded. I’m not thrilled with the design.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

From the Bastille station you could see some sort of canal. Definitely something for future exploration.

Once at the Bastille station I just followed the big and loud crowd walking through the metro and celebrating. They led me out to the real celebration.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Some cute socialists.


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Some people are just not meant to climb up on street signs. This guys flailig attempts to get up there entertained the crowd for a good while. He ultimately made it.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I stayed for about 45 minutes but the place was unbearably crowded, they were all drinking and I was afraid there would be problems with the police. Also, it was getting dark and my hosts were expecting me so I headed back out to St. Maurice and enjoyed a relaxing end to a very long and tiring second day.


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## Godius (Aug 31, 2011)

Oh NOES, the socialists are taking over! Nice series, btw!


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

600West218 said:


> I don’t ever get tired of these apartment buildings.
> 
> 
> Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


It is not really important but a lot of Haussmannian buildings are offices.
There are four time more office space in Central Paris than in La Défense.
In many way, it is wrong to say that La Defense is the main business district of Paris.



600West218 said:


> This I passed a number of times thinking it was some kind of court building. Turns out it is an old fortress open to the public. Another thing for a future trip...
> 
> 
> Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


It is Paris High Court building but seen from the oposite side that on the previous page.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Minato ku said:


> It is not really important but a lot of Haussmannian buildings are offices.
> There are four time more office space in Central Paris than in La Défense.
> In many way, it is wrong to say that La Defense is the main business district of Paris.


Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out. A question I have is how did all the Haussmnian buildings come into private hands? Weren't they all built by the government.




Minato ku said:


> It is Paris High Court building but seen from the oposite side that on the previous page.


Not the court building that is by the Plaza Concorde building? This one was along the river by Notre Dame.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Day 3 in Paris

Already I was behind is seeing what I wanted to see. Paris was big, things took lots of time to do, and, most importantly, the plain touristy stuff was so good and interesting, that I wasn’t getting to the stuff I normally like to see.

But when travelling you have to roll with the punches as the reality of what places are like will often change the best made plans. And even though I didn’t know it yet, some of the things that I would see in other places would more than make up for what I didn’t see in Paris.

With that said, on the 3rd day in Paris I planned to race to the Eiffel Tower and beat the crowds to get up it. Unfortunately, once again a couple of things conspired against me. The first was that I left St. Maurice later than I should have. The second was that the metro lines that would have gotten me closest to it were closed so I had to go to the Ecole Militar and walk from there.

But at least the sun was out for the first time on my trip:


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Love all that structural steel:


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

To stand right below it and look up at it is amazing. New York just really has nothing to compare with this. I’d gladly trade the Empire State Building, the Chrysler building and WTC 1 for this - that is 3 supertalls for the Eiffel Tower. Any takers?


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

One evil though did occur to me though. It is rather amazing that the Germans in WWII, in their desperation to get more steel, didn’t tear this thing down to build armaments with it. Maybe Hitler being a wanna be architect couldn’t bring himself to having it torn down?

Anyways, because I got there late there were HUGE lines once again. However, once things were properly organized it turned out that if you only want to walk up to the first two floors there is essentially no line. So I walked.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Look closely and you can make out the Arch du Triumph.


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Looking back at the Ecole Militar


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Looking towards La Defense


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Here we see a bulk carrying barge going up the Seine. It is a working river.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

A small portion of the absurdly long lines.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

A pretty big mobile crane. I don’t know what the work is that they were doing.

After taking in the view from the Eiffel Tower it was off to catch the metro to La Defense.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Arriving in La Defense you find yourself in a large underground train station. It is pretty ugly - just like Penn Station in New York.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

But what is above it is anything but ugly.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Their designs are innovative


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

A pretty big arch, no?


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The semi-circular structure is actually a shopping mall.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Cool, a Parisian High Line!!


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I think they could use a bit more variety in the cladding types. Still, it works.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Ironically, this is the headquarters of Societe General which I think may be the largest bank in France. I think it has also at times lost money and had to be bailed out. It seems that just like New York the nicer the buildings, the bigger the bailout. 


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This is inside the Societe General headquarters. The guards were giving me dirty looks so I left quickly.


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Interestingly La Defense seems to be built around cemeteries as there are cemeteries on both sides of it.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Next I walked down the elevated walkway.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This is either the other side of the same cemetery or a different one on the other side of La Defense.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Well, at least they were trying to be innovative - but they failed, in a 1970s sort of way.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The old arch as seen from the new arch.


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Sticking out like a sore thumb.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Total, the big French oil company.


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The police cars are getting better!


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

An organic monument of some sort.


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A skyscraper under construction. It is interesting how quickly they begin the cladding. In New York the cladding wouldn’t even begin until the building was two or three times taller than this one is.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

An interesting name if this is indeed the same building - Seize the Day tower??


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This being France they actually have some vineyards!!!


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

In this little wedge of a construction site they are building a hotel. So La Defense is definitely growing.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The metro as it emerges from underground on its route back to central Paris.

Having seen La Defense I headed back into central Paris to go to the Pantheon which I had missed the previous day. That and the rest of the days sites will be covered in the next post.


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## hhhhh (Oct 28, 2009)

Great thread.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Great report so far! I love your comments with the pictures! Threads like these are fun to read  I think the Seine river might have been swollen due to extensive rainfall across N and East France in April. I've seen it much more gently flowing when I was in Paris. Those stairs along the side also probably give acces to a sort of platform wich was probably flooded at the time you took pics.

The picture of the failed 70ties blocks with the army like painting on them is ironically a sort of ghetto right next to La Défance. Those are gouvernment social housing blocks build in 1977, of wich Paris has many, much more than NYC for instance. These are called Tours Nuage(Cloud towers)


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## openlyJane (Feb 3, 2010)

Thanks for the very interesting tour of Paris.


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## Helmet222 (Sep 14, 2009)

That must be one of the most interesting threads if ever seen here. I like these tons of pictures and the way you document so many of them. I always prefer this to threads with only few but arty photos. 
Can`t wait to see the pictures of Belgium and Germany.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

joshsam said:


> The picture of the failed 70ties blocks with the army like painting on them is ironically a sort of ghetto right next to La Défance. Those are gouvernment social housing blocks build in 1977, of wich Paris has many, much more than NYC for instance. These are called Tours Nuage(Cloud towers)


Thanks. That is very interesting. It never occurred to me that those could be government social housing. In the US almost all government social housing looks the same so it is very day to spot. Not so in France I guess.

Later I was to see some government housing in Paris (as pointed out by my hosts) that was nice and I later saw some government housing in Lille that looked very nice.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

600West218 said:


> Thanks. That is very interesting. It never occurred to me that those could be government social housing. In the US almost all government social housing looks the same so it is very day to spot. Not so in France I guess.
> 
> Later I was to see some government housing in Paris (as pointed out by my hosts) that was nice and I later saw some government housing in Lille that looked very nice.


Thruth is though that most of the social housing isn't that nice and the 2005 riots in Paris and other cities in France all occured in those Social housing districts. They may look ok from the outside, but the insides... One of the worst area's in Paris I have been is Saint-Denis. The Social estates where all in a very bad shape at that time though the historical center of the suburb looked nice and quite upscale.

You not ever going to wander in such area's if you don't know where they are to find and tourists will also never see them. They are tucked away and hard to reach. If you have time, watch the film 'La Haine' (The Hate) because that is also Paris, much more than what people like to admit


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## Puinkabouter (Jan 8, 2007)

600West218 said:


> Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
> 
> Cool, a Parisian High Line!!


That's just a pedestrian bridge. La Défense is full of them, because all pedestrian traffic is situated at +1 above ground, with all car traffic running 'underground' (although that's just normal ground level).

But Paris actually does have a real High Line, ie. a garden built on an abandoned elevated railway. It's called the Promenade Plantée (Tree-lined Walkway), and it's a nearly 5km long green ribbon running from Bastille to Bois de Vincennes, more or less - which is the opposite side of the city from La Défense. Random collage via google:


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## WC_EEND (Jan 31, 2011)

^^ I assume that was built where the "petite ceinture" used to be?


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## ko7 (Sep 7, 2009)

no. the promenade plantée has nothing to do with the "petite ceinture" (inner belt). The promenade plantée used the viaduc of the old bastille line. The track outside paris are used by the rer A. Inside paris, the rer A is underground which allows it to go through Paris instead of having his terminus at Bastille.

You can see this walkway here http://goo.gl/maps/qNuf. If you follow it on the left, you will find the "opéra Bastille" which was build at the place of the old station.

By the way, this is a really nice thread.


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## Axelferis (Jan 18, 2008)

fantastic report!! :applause:

i'm from lille and i wonder how can you capture a small city like lille after showing us the magnificient paris ville lumières!

great thread!!


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## RobertWalpole (Mar 16, 2010)

Great photos!

Paris and London are at the top of the heap of European cities, which, in turn, are the best in the world. Paris is a particular jewel.

P.S.: The figures in this fountain are replicas of the original. The originals are owned by a store in New York called Urban Archeology and can be seen on its website.

http://www.urbanarchaeology.com/cutsheets/salvage/MermanStatue_UA0030-SV.pdf


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

joshsam said:


> Great report so far! I love your comments with the pictures! Threads like these are fun to read  I think the Seine river might have been swollen due to extensive rainfall across N and East France in April. I've seen it much more gently flowing when I was in Paris. Those stairs along the side also probably give acces to a sort of platform wich was probably flooded at the time you took pics.
> 
> The picture of the failed 70ties blocks with the army like painting on them is ironically a sort of ghetto right next to La Défance. Those are gouvernment social housing blocks build in 1977, of wich Paris has many, much more than NYC for instance. These are called Tours Nuage(Cloud towers)


These blocks and the whole area (including parts of La Défense) were built were until the 70's was one of France's biggest slums (bidonville), housing mainly Algerian immigrants. It was an area of historical importance during the war of Algerian independance - on the 17th of october 1961 Algerian protestors, many of whom lived in these Nanterre slums, peacefully protested against a curfew imposed by the Parisian police. The result by the police was very brutal and resulted in the biggest massacre within the city of Paris since WW2, with around 200 protestors killed. So you actually were, like many tourists without knowing it, in a pretty historical area.

Other important slums was one in Champigny sur Marne - a bit further east from Saint-Maurice where 600West218 stayed - famous for housing Portuguese immigrants. Though you also had smaller slums here and there housing diverse populations, including 'white' french people. 

Anyways, these projects, the Aillaud towers, housed many former residents of the slum. Nanterre remains to this day a very Algerian municipality, for the aforementioned historical reasons. 


Here's a picture of the famous slum right next to the "CNIT", the building which is in the middle of la Défense and that you showed in your photos: 










(if you want me to remove the picture because this is your thread it's absolutely no problem, just tell me or send me a PM and I'll remove it ASAP).


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## pal7 (May 13, 2012)

Very nice pics of the most beautiful city in the world!


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## francois83 (Sep 6, 2009)

600West218 said:


> Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out. A question I have is how did all the Haussmnian buildings come into private hands? Weren't they all built by the government.


Actually all the Haussmanian buildings have always been private. The urban planning development was done by the State, the most famous prefet of Paris beeing the baron Haussman; in return the State could sell the land with a markup to private developpers, who built all these marvelous buildings. Given the quantity and the quality of what has been built, it seems that at that time France was richer than ever.


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## MattN (Oct 25, 2008)

My uncle said exactly the same thing when he spent a day or two in Ieper coming back from Paris. It's probably happened to me a couple of times. Of course, they're quite different close up and people often comment on how hard some sounds are for them to say.

They are similar as languages, though grammar and word order takes a bit of getting used to as with anything else.


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## Piltup Man (May 21, 2010)

600 West, great thread so far, I enjoyed the one you did about your travels in the north of England and this one is just as interesting.

I know it's a few pages back, but regarding the church in Paris with the French Republican motto (Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité) engraved on its wall: between the Revolution (1789) and the law seperating Church and State (1905) there were often tensions and power struggles between the clergy and the state - the inscription that you saw is not the only one to be found in a church in France; apparently they result from disputes between local priests and the municipalities, and in cases such as these the Municipality (representing the authority of the Republic) had the last word!


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## BringMe (May 7, 2011)

joshsam said:


> ^^ To keep them in form? So that they not grow to large and have nicely shaped crown I guess... I'm so used to the fact that trees in urban area's are cut like that, that i never even wondered why they would not do the same around the world. It's called pollarding.
> 
> Pollarded trees in my own town: http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae232/joshsam1808/SINTTRUDEN/P2010200.jpg


Yeah here they do the same thing but only if the tree affect other things like electric cables or builgings, but not like that I mean if you can see in the picture they literally cut the whole tree and looks like a public park so that's why I wonder why they do cut it


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​
@600West I agree with you that "river" looks more like a canal Lovely pics btw  


And you seem obsessed with police cars lol I find that really interesting


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Piltup Man said:


> 600 West, great thread so far, I enjoyed the one you did about your travels in the north of England and this one is just as interesting.
> 
> I know it's a few pages back, but regarding the church in Paris with the French Republican motto (Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité) engraved on its wall: between the Revolution (1789) and the law seperating Church and State (1905) there were often tensions and power struggles between the clergy and the state - the inscription that you saw is not the only one to be found in a church in France; apparently they result from disputes between local priests and the municipalities, and in cases such as these the Municipality (representing the authority of the Republic) had the last word!


Thanks very much for that input. I was dissapointed that no one seemed to know.

So.... do you think this is still a church and it just had to add those words to its building? I could see that but what is strange then is that is also says "communal property" on it.

I've been thinking it more likely that either a) the church was confiscated by the government who then put those inscriptions on it or that b) church attendance dropped so that the church closed and the local government took over the building for other uses.

If no one knows maybe I can e-mail my host and ask him because I am very curious about it.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

BringMe said:


> And you seem obsessed with police cars lol I find that really interesting


Actually I am not all that obsessed about police cars. What happened is that in my trip to England I saw that the police cars looked really nice with incredible paint schemes. So I took pictures of them because I thought they looked so nice.

The down side is that now I compare everyones police cars to England's, and of course most countries police cars aren't so nice though I did see a real nice one in Germany.


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## De Klauw (Apr 20, 2006)

600West218 said:


> I've been thinking it more likely that either a) the church was confiscated by the government who then put those inscriptions on it or that b) church attendance dropped so that the church closed and the local government took over the building for other uses.


Note that in France (as in Belgium) most church properties were confiscated by the State during the French Revolution and these were never given back. Instead a different arrangement was worked out by the Concordat of 1801 (Belgium was back then under French rule and the arrangement was kept after gaining independence) which stipulated that former church properties remained state property but in return the State would pay clerical salaries. This arrangement is still active today. So even now most churches in both countries are still directly or indirectly owned by the State and as a logical consequence it is the State that has to pay most of the conservation costs. My point is that church and State are not so strictly separated as sometimes assumed (at least in Belgium and France).


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^You can also see it as something positive. The state, wich is obviously has no religion and isn't run by any religious party whatsoever (CDenV isn't really that religious if you'd ask me and they also heavely lost votes), can dictate what the church can do and can't do :devil: I think in France it's even more the case...


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## De Klauw (Apr 20, 2006)

BringMe said:


> @600West I agree with you that "river" looks more like a canal Lovely pics btw


Well technically it's a 'canalized river'. 

But in Ghent it is even for residents difficult to tell which is which. In Ghent the river Leie flows into the Scheldt but before doing that both rivers meander and split several times. And to make things really complicated there are also some _real _ canals.











You see. It's a total mess. :lol:


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## BringMe (May 7, 2011)

^^ LOL!


Now I understand! 





600West218 said:


> Actually I am not all that obsessed about police cars. What happened is that in my trip to England I saw that the police cars looked really nice with incredible paint schemes. So I took pictures of them because I thought they looked so nice.
> 
> The down side is that now I compare everyones police cars to England's, and of course most countries police cars aren't so nice though I did see a real nice one in Germany.



I think the best police cars in europe are in The Netherlands and some in germany


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

On the third day in Ghent my plan was to go to Oostende and see the English channel, which would be nice in and of itself, and, more importantly, to see the best kept section of the German Atlantic Wall from WWII. 

I expected to leave early and spend most of the day in Oostende. But when you don’t get to bed until 4 am that is not so easy to do. I don’t think I left the apartment until after 10 am.

I think walked to the train station which from where I was took about 45 minutes, even walking fast.

Along the way I stopped to take pictures of an interesting device I had seen before.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Instead of using a crane to get things to the roof they used this portable angled elevator


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

A pretty clever device, I do have to say.

After about a 30 minute train ride I found myself in Oostende, but much later than I had expected arriving. As I needed to be back in Ghent to meet my host and go to a concert he was taking me to I was really pressed for time.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
Right from getting off the train there was some very interesting looking stuff. There were gigantic cranes that looked to be on a ship or barge. And there were huge white tubes and what looked to be windmill blades. 


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I am guessing that these were wind turbines that were going to be set up offshore somewhere.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I didn’t have time to go check it all out as I had to run to the Atlantic Wall museum. I was hoping they would be there when I got back but they weren’t.

As the web site for the museum is pretty bare bones I didn’t have good directions on how to get to it. I assumed, wrongly, that there would be a tourist office that could help me. There wasn’t so I wound up asking, of all people, the guy working in the bag check place. He gave me a map and marked the location and told me that it was no more than two or three kilometers. Good, walking briskly I could get there in a half hour and see some of Oostende along the way.

I walked out the train station and what did I see? 


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

What else would it be in Belgium but 20 thousand bikes. If I had been smart I should have taken one to get to the museum faster.


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The local church which of course I did not go in - no time.


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Darn, just now I am noticing the moped in the bottom of that picture. Should have stolen that :-(


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Snails, snails, snails.


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And of course, there were lots of what are the national bird - cranes.


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Looked interesting but it was blocked by construction fences.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


This is what the whole place looked like - large hotels and apartment buildings lining all the streets and the shoreline. Oostende was much bigger than I expected. I would think people would to the south of France or Spain for beach vacations but apparently lots of them come here. It was a cold and windy day and the few people I saw wind surfing were wearing wet suits to stay warm.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Gray and gloomy. Looks like the south shore of Lake Ontario where I grew up.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

A really good day for kites.


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It was around this point where I realized I had a problem. I had been walking very quickly for at least half an hour and nothing looking like an Atlantic Wall museum was in sight. Worse still, I hadn’t even gotten to the airport which I had to pass before getting to the museum. And I was quickly running out of time. Clearly, staying out so late and asking a baggage handler for directions were not two of my better decisions on this trip.

But I had no choice. I really, really wanted to see the Atlantic Wall so I pressed on as quickly as I could.


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There was a trolley here (which I was too stupid to take) and I saw another of these little contraptions. Notice the wheel that the cable is looped over with the weights at the bottom. I guess this is to add tension to the overhead power cables and prevent sagging.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Finally, I got to the airport, but more than an hour had passed and I had actually done a lot of running. The guy had really screwed me telling me it was 2 or 3 kilometers. It took me an hour and half to get there walking VERY fast and often running. It must be at least 7 or 8 kilometers.


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After a while the big buildings gave way to individual homes, many of which were quite nice. Nobody better try to tell me this is social housing too!!


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Finally I got a picture of one of these. I had seen a number of these tractors in the city of Ghent. I totally freaked me out seeing big farm tractors going through the middle of the city. And here was one in Oostende. Only later when I saw them in Charleroi did I realize they may not be farm tractors after all.

Finally I made it to the museum, but with only about 45 minutes or an hour to rush through the place and try to get back to get a train to Ghent. I was really annoyed but there was nothing I could do.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Some mines from WW I and WW2. This section of the Atlantic Wall was actually first built up by the Germans in WW I and that is the part you see first.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The novelty of this place is all the bunkers and connecting tunnels were left in tack and in really good condition.


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This is what a WW I bunker would have looked like.


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Here you can see some of the long scrubby grass and bush that grows in the sandy soil along the coast and in which much of the Wall was built.


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This is a German range finder that uses the long sides (the person looks in the middle but via mirrors sees from the ends of it) to be able to triangulate and calculate distances.

A bunker from WW II. Obviously these had their own engineering challenges given that you wanted unobstructed slits to be able to view out of and fire out of. But the longer those slits the more vulnerable your roof to collapse when it takes a hit. You will see later in France such bunkers have often had their slits filled with bricks to give them more support.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

German charts to identify allied aircraft.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Many of the bunkers had recreations of what they would have looked like during the war. This was a regular barracks I think. They were VERY good. I think they managed to get a lot of authentic weapons and uniforms. Also, the audio guide to the tour was very informative.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

One downside is they didn’t have many original artillery pieces. So they would put in guns that might have been authentic but didn’t belong where they put them. This huge and protected bunker was for an artillery piece not this little AA gun.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This is one of the tunnels that connected all the bunkers and they are all in good condition with original brick work. The reason is they used very high quality glazed bricks to build the tunnels.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I think this was a gun repair shop.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

An artillery bunker.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Here you can get a sense of how thick the walls of the bunker and the steel doors were.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This was interesting. The artillery piece is not German - it was a Belgian artillery piece capture by the Germans and then used in the Atlantic Wall. To me this shows how desperate the Germans were. To use some one elses gun that you do not likely make ammunition for and that you would have a hard time getting spare parts for is not something one would normally do. You want all your equipment to be standardized both to ease training and to make all the ammunition and parts interchangeable. The Germans apparently didn’t have that luxury.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Note how it is set up to rotate.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

All the bunkers had these hand operated phones.


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The communication bunker.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Probably a lot of German soldiers had this view in 1943 and 1944.

BTW, they mentioned some eastern European and Russians who volunteered to serve the Nazis were in special military units stationed at the Atlantic Wall (they didn’t trust them enough to use them on the Eastern Front). Some deserted and that was a problem. After the war the Allies agreed, at Stalin’s request, to send them back to the Soviet Union. There they were generally executed or sent to labor camps where they died.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
The museum was great. A normal trip there should be two or three hours to take your time and see everything - it is bad that I was so rushed. But the museum people were helpful and called me a taxi so I could bet back to the train station.

I got back to Ghent a bit late but met my host at the station. I thought my day was basically over but the best was yet to come.


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## RobertWalpole (Mar 16, 2010)

What a stunning city!!!!!!! :cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:


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## Puinkabouter (Jan 8, 2007)

600West218 said:


> The building the Belfry is part of is quite massive.
> 
> BTW, note the dragon way up on the very top of the Belfry. That is a copy but hundreds of years ago another dragon was put up there. I think the dragon was stolen from some other city. Anyways, I am very curious how they got it up there. Very large scaffolding maybe?













Note that the current top of the Belfry is only around 100 years old, although it is based on an original 14th-Century design. It has had numerous different tops before, almost one for each century of its existence. The previous one was made of cast iron and was painted to make it look like stone. It caused the foundations to shift because of its weight and had to be replaced.

I recently made this blended image that shows the change over the course of a century:




De Kuip by Amaury Henderick, on Flickr​


600West218 said:


> Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
> 
> No idea what this building is but I thought it was nice.


It's the main theatre of the city


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Puinkabouter said:


>


Using a helicopter is cheating. :bash: 

I was wondering how they got the original one up there 500 years ago.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

RobertWalpole said:


> What a stunning city!!!!!!! :cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:


Chill with all the cheers. You are going to revive my post traumatic stress from all the Belgian beer I drank there - I think I can feel a headache coming on now :nuts:


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## Puinkabouter (Jan 8, 2007)

600West218 said:


> There really wasn’t much activity on this river. In fact, I don’t think I recall seeing any boats ever moving on it. That is very different from, say, Chareloi where I would see lots of cargo boats using the canals..


This is because there's a canal that goes all the way around the city, connecting the seaport to the Scheldt river, and all ship traffic goes through that canal. It's called "Ringvaart" (Ring/Circular canal). If you look Ghent up on Google Maps it's easy to see. Most of the R4 (Ring motorway around Ghent) to the West and South of Ghent runs along the banks of that canal.

It was dug because the ever growing ship traffic was putting a big constraint on all traffic in the city center (bridges opening all the time, that's not very practical in a canal-riddled city like that), plus the boats kept becoming larger and the old waterways of the city were becoming too small.




600West218 said:


> Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
> 
> I can make out “socialist” but not the other word.


Werkersvereniging means trade union. Actually it literally means laborers union, but nowadays we call them "vakbond" - which literally means trade union.





600West218 said:


> Very typical looking Flemish buildings but I am not sure how old they actually are.


Probably between 100 and 120 years old.




600West218 said:


> The Ghent Belfry. It is also very old (1300s?) and was used to serve as a lookout post for the city to warn of invaders coming and also was a bit of a secure place for residents.


They served as bell towers, clocks and lookout towers mainly. The first concern for those looking out from it would probably be fire before invaders. As Ghent had a population of around 60.000 people when this tower was erected, it would have been a bit too small to function as a refuge for residents. They did function as a safe keep for something though: usually the city's most important legal documents such as its town privileges.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Thanks for the great info Puinkabouter!!


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Ghent Day 3 continued....

I arrived late back at the St. Peters Station in Ghent. The original plan was for my host to meet me there at 4 pm and take me on a tour of Ghents industrial area and port before taking me to a performance by the choir he is in. I thought by my being late I had now lost my shot at the industrial tour and was pretty bummed about that.

But my host was an awesome guy and changed into his choir clothes early so that he could give me a tour and go straight to the concert after that. So my tour of industry and the port was back on!!

We drove straight across the city, as best as I could tell in a northwesterly direction. 


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The first thing we came up to was a big Volvo car assembly factory. Wow, Ghent even has automobile factories!! Who would have guessed. And now that dissassembled Volve on display at the industrial museum made sense.

Not also the wind turbines scattered about.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

As Ghent also has an actual sea port (yes a sea port where major ocean going cargo ships can come) Japanese cars are imported to Europe through Ghent.


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The industrial area straddles Ghents big ship channel ( or river, or whatever it is), so we had to take ferries back and forth a couple of times.


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There was a long line so we had to wait for this to go and come back.


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A big power plant down river. I think it is inactive.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The also import bulk materials here such as coal and limestone and other materials for cement.


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After getting across we then drove in the direction of Ghent and came to a gigantic paper factory.


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We also went by some petro-chemical stuff


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The paper plant was huge. Really huge. And very modern. Ghents industry was no old, decaying, out of date industry. They clearly had modern industry that was being invested in. This bodes very well for Ghent’s future, and Belgiums.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Very big and long conveyors for moving everything around.


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Then we drove along the same side of the water but away from Ghent and went by the old power plant.


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Across the channel I could see more of the port.


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As you can see they have some “real” ships coming into Ghent.


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I believe this is a new power station but I am not sure that the cooling tower is part of it. There was a very big industrial complex, mainly a steel mill, that had a big co-generation plant and the cooling tower may be part of that. I’m not sure.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I believe this was a cement factory. Looks very new.


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They even had grain silos too!!!!


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Looking down towards the huge ArcelorMittel steel mill.


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This rolling crane was in operation. I believe it was picking up scrap metal.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

We were back on the original side of the channel and went along side this huge complex which could have been the steel mill or cement factory - I can’t tell.


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This huge piping ran more than a kilometer.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Some newly assembled Volvo’s going by.


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Some cars of a freight train to the side of the road. In England I barely saw a freight train the entire time I was there. But in Belgium they were all over the place. They were never that long, but they were common. A few times as I was waiting in a station for a passenger train a freight train would go through.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

That looks like a diesel engine. What will I see next - trains with “Union-Pacific” painted on them? 


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Going back by the steel mill again.


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And the Honda import center.

The tour of the port and industrial area. Much better than these pictures convey - it is hard to take decent pictures from in a moving car. But the point was clear - Ghent isn’t an industrial has been, it is an active manufacturing center.

Next we headed to the other side of town - both literally and figuratively - for the concert.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Going through Ghent we went by what is pretty much its only tall office building.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

We then went on a very affluent commercial street that had some very upscale auto dealerships such as this BMW one and a big Ferrari one. Interestingly, it also had numerous strip clubs with woman actually modeling in the windows sort of like Amsterdam. I was very surprised to see that in this part of town.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Oh, and look what comes rumbling down the road - another one of these.

Finally we arrived in the town where the concert was to be. I don’t recall its name but I think it is the most affluent section of Ghent and maybe some here will recognize it.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

A nice church with odd trees. I really don’t get how those trees survive.

As the choir had to rehearse for about an hour before the concert had time to wander around the town.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

You can tell this is a very well kept and upscale place.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I walked down some of the side streets and the houses were very nice.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Behind the very nice community center where the concert was to be held there was a small park with a very placid river running through it.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Then I went inside for the concert which was superb. Before the concert some people spoke. It was interesting to me that although I could not understand even a single word being said there was one person who spoke with great authority and ease and I thought to myself maybe he is the mayor of the town or something like that. Turns out, he was the mayor of the town. Its amazing what you can pick up on from non-verbal clues.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Well, I guess this is appropriate. The last picture has a crane in the middle of it - the official bird of Ghent, at least in my mind.

As I would be leaving early the next morning for Lille this was the end of my stay in Ghent. Although I was there only a few days I came away very impressed with Ghent. It is a small city but it has just about everything - amazing history and architecture, the vibrancy of a university city with many pubs and restaraunts, industry and affluence, great public transportation yet it is also walkable, and, last but not least, it seemed like a very livable city. In short you have most of the amenities of a big city without all the headaches. My host in Ghent was very proud of his city and I can fully understand why.

But tomorrow would be Saturday, and there would be new places to explore.


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## WC_EEND (Jan 31, 2011)

The village you were in is called Sint-Martens-Latem and is indeed one of the most affluent bits of Gent. 

Looking forward to seeing your pictures of Lille 

edit: most "Gentenaars" (people who live in Gent) are proud of their city (myself included) and love it here. I've shown pictures of Gent to friends of mine who live across the world and they all say it looks absolutely beautiful.


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## madridhere (Oct 10, 2005)

Very interesting places, not only for the architecture, but also for the history. Thanks man.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Great pictures and very nice tour of Ghent overall . I've been to the atlantic museum long time ago on a school trip once. Still looks the same  Also Oostende looks way bigger than it actually is because of all the hotels and the flats that tourists can rent to stay there for a week or so... 
When it's good weather those streets and beaches are packed with people coming from all over Belgium.
If you'd like to see more places on the Belgian coast the this thread is a must watch 

The industrial port of Ghent is the 3rd biggest Sea port in Belgium. Antwerp ofcourse being number 1 and Bruges at 2. You seem surprised about the car assembly factories. It doesn't really matter where those plants are in Belgium, infrastructure is everywhere to serve those plants. There is a huge Ford car assembly factory not to far from my home where my father works. What I'm trying to say is that big and small companies are erverywhere. We are a very industrialised nation  Good you saw some of suburban houses too. If you go further away from the bigger cities, also middele class can afford such houses in Belgium.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Regarding those pipes you saw in the Port of Oostende. Those are indeed parts of giant wind turbines. We are building a windfarm on a sandbank just before the coast. When weather is good you can see them standing in the sea. Here you can find some information about it in English: http://www.c-power.be/ They are now constructing Phase 2-3 wich consists of 48 turbines.

Those tractors you see in build up area's are used for farming. A lot of the land usage in Belgium is a total mess. Therefore you might find big industrialised agriculture companies in build up area's. Also on the outer edges of cities farming land is very mixed up with the suburban landscape due to bad spatial planning.. So you'll see these a lot. These heavy tactors are mostly used to plow fields and haul heavy loads. Therefore you might see them hauling a wide variety of cargo from construction debris to a load of sugar beets.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

joshsam said:


> Those tractors you see in build up area's are used for farming. A lot of the land usage in Belgium is a total mess. Therefore you might find big industrialised agriculture companies in build up area's. Also on the outer edges of cities farming land is very mixed up with the suburban landscape due to bad spatial planning.. So you'll see these a lot. These heavy tactors are mostly used to plow fields and haul heavy loads. Therefore you might see them hauling a wide variety of cargo from construction debris to a load of sugar beets.


I finally saw them again at Charleroi at a construction site being used as dump trucks. In fact, I don't think I saw any dump trucks in Belgium (or France either) so I guess they use these instead.

Maybe they are preferred because they see them as more flexible in being able to be used in both construction and agriculture. In France they also used tractors to pull fishing boats out of the water.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Actually I see quite a lot of dump trucks too. But I live 4km from a concrete and road constructing company so that might be an explaination for me seeing them. I do think that big farming companies might rent their tractors when not needed to construction companies...

Edit: these are the ones I see elmost every day: http://www.ditzj.de/fora/buzzy/fn/D90_03722.jpg


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## GZT (May 17, 2010)

600West218 said:


> Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
> 
> Finally I got a picture of one of these. I had seen a number of these tractors in the city of Ghent. I totally freaked me out seeing big farm tractors going through the middle of the city. And here was one in Oostende. Only later when I saw them in Charleroi did I realize they may not be farm tractors after all.


There is no taxing on tractors and they are allowed to use 'red diesel', which is taxfree, in a way to support farmers. But because of this many building firms began to use tractors to transport their materials. Nice statistic to illustrate this: in Brussels there are 21 official farming companies while there are almost a 1000 registerd tractors. 

Of course the gov't doesn't like this and has announced new regulations to stop this. See this newsarticle.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

GZT said:


> There is no taxing on tractors and they are allowed to use 'red diesel', which is taxfree, in a way to support farmers. But because of this many building firms began to use tractors to transport their materials. Nice statistic to illustrate this: in Brussels there are 21 official farming companies while there are almost a 1000 registerd tractors.
> 
> Of course the gov't doesn't like this and has announced new regulations to stop this. See this newsarticle.


Wow, thanks for this information. So in other words I was seeing a lot of tractors roaming all over cities due to some strange tax policies. :nuts:
And as you'll see when I get to that part of the report in Chareloi I saw lots of tractors clearly working on a construction sight.

An example of unintended consequences.

It is amazing how much I learn from the input on this trip report. :banana: Keep it up!


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Very very interesting!


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

BTW, for those who are able to visit Ghent you might want to check out this free boat tour of the harbor.


http://en.havengent.be/default_Freetoursbyboat.aspx


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Day 1 in Lille.

It was Saturday morning and time to go to Lille. My host dropped me off at the station where I reluctantly said goodbye to Ghent but looked forward to seeing Lille.

While waiting at the St. Peters station some cargo trains rumbled by


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Sorry for the bad picture but here you can see one of the industrial towns the train passed through in Belgium. They all looked interesting.


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The Belgian dream I suppose.


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Rolling into Lille.


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Maybe I made a mistake and took a train to Leeds by mistake?


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The modern office building area.


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I found the old Lille Flanders train station to be nice.


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I was to catch a train to go to Nieppe where my CouchSurfing hosts live but I had a few minutes to spare so I peaked outside the station a bit.


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The station from the outside.


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I then took the train west to Nieppe.


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That’s the old train station, and it isn’t even open any more.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

After taking me to their home and letting me settle in a bit my hosts took me out for a drive and ultimately to see Lille.


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Turns out they live about 100 yards from the Belgian border which these days doesn’t really mean much.


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First we went to Amentierres which is an industrial town/suburb of Lille which looked interesting in its own right.


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The town hall and Belfry of Ammetierres


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I think the Belfry is kind of a Flemish thing and this part of France is sometimes referred to as Flemish France. As I would see on Sunday there were plenty examples of Flemish architecture.


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If they would drive on the left this would really look like England.


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A ground level view of the yellow plants that make for the beautiful fields. I would see many more in the days to come.


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I bet even OpenlyJane couldn’t tell if this were Liverpool or not 


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Looks like an old factory of some sort.


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And just when I was starting to have canal withdrawal symptoms we ran into a canal.


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This obviously moved loads between railway cars and boats. It looked abandoned but I don’t know for sure if it was.


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This may be a working class or even poor area but it sure looks very nice. I like the brickwork and the bay windows.


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A really nice bay window


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BTW, by this point you should be able to see clearly what I was talking about when I said before that somewhere between Paris and Lille I passed into northern Europe. In Paris the overwhelming color was biege and tan. Here it is a dark red and brown. The change is quite dramatic. At this point we are in Lille.


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If I remember correctly I think this was a new school.


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Ok, no joke, I was told this was social housing for low income and poor people.


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Note to self, move to France, then become poor.


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This was a local fresh food market.


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The Sebastopol Theater.


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Directly in front of the theater was a tree lined boulevard that we walked down. It had some buildings that seemed like Hasussman apartment buildings.


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We then came to a big plaza with a couple of museums and surrounded by some very nice buildings.


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Turns out this building is being turned into residences with some of those being reserved for low income people!!


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Here I will need some help from people from Lille. I believe one of the buildings here was an art museum and the other was I don’t know what. Help anyone...?


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Interesting how Lille mainly looks like a northern European city of the industrial revolution and then every once in a while hits you upside the head with a block that looks like Paris.


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As it turned out this was just a small sample of the riches Lille had to offer. Bet the rest of Day 1 in Lille is for the next post...


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Great pictures of Lille!  It's an interesting and a quite nice city. Those differend building styles, red brick vs the sand coloured buildings is also what you can find in Brussels, mostly build in the Leopold era (because that man wanted a city in Belgium that looked like Paris)

I noticed you where in Komen/Comines. That area was heavely disputed in the language war between French and Dutch language. Also the language in 'French Flanders' used to be Flemish at one time. Therefore all the towns and cities also have a Flemish name and some only have a Flemish name and no Frech one.

In Flanders we call Lille, Rijsel and Roubaix, Robiaas and Tourcoing, Toerkonje (the other two cities wich form one metro area with Lille.)

I can't really help you with the buildings but that social housing does look very nice.


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## Piltup Man (May 21, 2010)

That building is the Prefecture of the department (Nord). People go there for administrative purposes, e.g. to renew their ID cards or vehicle-related documents. There is a Prefecture for each department of France.


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## WC_EEND (Jan 31, 2011)

another interesting thing to note is that the Lille Flandres station (where you arrived) used to be the Gare du Nord in Paris, but was moved over to Lille by train when the new Gare du Nord (current one) was being built.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

WC_EEND said:


> another interesting thing to note is that the Lille Flandres station (where you arrived) used to be the Gare du Nord in Paris, but was moved over to Lille by train when the new Gare du Nord (current one) was being built.


Lille got the better end of that deal I think.


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## De Klauw (Apr 20, 2006)

Interesting pictures of Lille. That city has a very schizophrenic identity by being a more or a less typical Flemish city. But at the same time it's desperate to be a French city. Interesting mix though.

Flemish Flanders looks almost exactly like the 'real' Flanders. The only difference that I notice is (despite the fact that the main language of the citizens nowadays is French) is that it looks more authentic. When crossing the border it's like going back 30 years in time. Much less ugly modern buildings (like apartment blocks) in French Flanders than in Belgian Flanders. And I really like that. French Flanders is what the real Flanders should have looked like.

BTW: I think it's true that 19th and 20th century workman's houses in lot's of previously industrialised cities like Lille, Ghent, Charleroi, Seraing, La Louvière and many English cities look pretty much the same. But I wouldn't call the average architecture in those countries similar. Especially the villages are very different in Flanders (including French Flanders), Wallonia (maybe except Hainaut which also looks pretty much like Flanders with lots of red brick architecture), France, Germany, Holland and England. When you were in Ghent you should have crossed the Dutch border to IJzendijke or Sluis border to see the radical difference in architecture.


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## endymar (Sep 19, 2010)

600West218 said:


> A ground level view of the yellow plants that make for the beautiful fields. I would see many more in the days to come.


These are rapeseeds... a lot of them in northern parts of Europe... they are harvested and made into rapeseed/canola oil


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

De Klauw said:


> BTW: I think it's true that 19th and 20th century workman's houses in lot's of previously industrialised cities like Lille, Ghent, Charleroi, Seraing, La Louvière and many English cities look pretty much the same. But I wouldn't call the average architecture in those countries similar. Especially the villages are very different in Flanders (including French Flanders), Wallonia (maybe except Hainaut which also looks pretty much like Flanders with lots of red brick architecture), France, Germany, Holland and England. When you were in Ghent you should have crossed the Dutch border to IJzendijke or Sluis border to see the radical difference in architecture.


There really is no such thing as a "real" and a "fake" regional architecture, just different buildings built at different times. Those 1840-1940 red bricks row houses that were built in northern France, England, Belgium and other areas of the region became as real as supposadly authentic 18th century village architecture.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

One thing I liked about Lille - which you will see more in the next batch of photos - is that it seemed to have more history. There were lots of really old buildings and narrow streets, stuff that dated from the Renesiance. This seemed different from Paris much of which was knocked down in the 1800s to be rebuilt by Hausman.


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## Malyan (Apr 2, 2011)

Thank you for this wonderful photo tour! I love that you give a really representative and detailed portrait of the cities you visited and don´t only show a few tourist sights. You really get a precise picture of everyday life in the areas you visited. Looking forward for the rest of your pictures!


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## De Klauw (Apr 20, 2006)

eklips said:


> There really is no such thing as a "real" and a "fake" regional architecture, just different buildings built at different times. Those 1840-1940 red bricks row houses that were built in northern France, England, Belgium and other areas of the region became as real as supposadly authentic 18th century village architecture.


Haven't said anything like that. I only said 'real Flanders'. By that I meant Belgian Flanders. What is usually meant by the name 'Flanders' (not that French Flanders is not 'real', off course). And I also said that the average architecture in those countries, especially in the villages, is more divers than the workman's houses in some cities (which indeed are similar in all previously industrialised cities). Like for instance, in the Ardennes most buildings in the villages are erected in grey stone, not red brick.



600West218 said:


> One thing I liked about Lille - which you will see more in the next batch of photos - is that it seemed to have more history. There were lots of really old buildings and narrow streets, stuff that dated from the Renesiance. This seemed different from Paris much of which was knocked down in the 1800s to be rebuilt by Hausman.


Off course. Most of old Paris is destroyed in the 19th century. Too bad, but in this case the replacement is also beautiful. And Paris has more a face of its own because of the distinct Haussmann buildings. So I do not grieve about Haussmann's renovation project. From an urbanistic view it's very interesting I think.


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## Tchek (Oct 8, 2010)

600West218 said:


> One thing I liked about Lille - which you will see more in the next batch of photos - is that it seemed to have more history. There were lots of really old buildings and narrow streets, stuff that dated from the Renesiance. This seemed different from Paris much of which was knocked down in the 1800s to be rebuilt by Hausman.


Personally, Lille always made me a better impression than Paris.

There are more details, more diversity (a mix of Hausmannian and Flemish architecture with a big British and Belgian influence) in Lille than Paris... of course the city is much smaller but very underrated.

I love the unique Hausmannian/Flemish mix of Lille. Hausmann is all about grandeur, Flemish is all about details, and they mixed both.


PS: Don't tell a Parisian that Lille has more history  they are convinced that "provinciaux" are lesser people.


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## De Klauw (Apr 20, 2006)

> PS: Don't tell a Parisian that Lille has more history  they are convinced that "provinciaux" are lesser people.


"The North" has a bad reputation in most of France anyway.  (unfairly off course). Most French people depict The North as some kind of Russia with very bad and cold weather and grey buildings everywhere.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Next it was on to the would be capital of Europe, Brussels. Brussels is one of those places that you want to visit if for no other reason than year hear its name all the time in the news so you want to see what it is like.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Coming into Brussels there was the usual quantity of overhead cables. It never ceased to amaze me how many there are and how much work must go into maintaining that and keeping it all organized.

I had to meet a friend at a metro station at a certain time and I therefore had to figure out very quickly how to use the metro ticket system. Fortunately, once you figure out the little wheel thingy it is pretty easy.

The metro itself was pretty nice, though it looked suspiciously like the French one, which probably means the French had something to do with building it.


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The overhead sign showing the location of all the trains on their routes was nice.


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The newer trains were completely walkthrough just as they were in Paris.


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Walking around with my friend I just took some quick shots here and there.


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Walking towards the EU section. BTW, you can see the weather sucked, but more on that later.


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This is why I think Europe is a continent, not a country and probably always will be.


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The European Commission building.


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I think they were protesting a factory closing.

After hanging out with my friend a bit I headed back to see the Army Museum. I only had about 3 hours to spend there but it was three hours well spent. It is an excellent museum.


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German helmets from WW1.


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A really strange German artillery piece from WW1.


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One problem though was that all the signs were in French and Flemish, next to nothing was in English. Nevertheless, the collection of artifacts was superb.


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Although it is dimly lit in this photo you can see this is a British tank from WW1


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A French WW1 tank


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Early mobile artillery


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The aircraft hanger was chock full of interesting things. That is a Soviet Mi-24 attack helicopter of Afghan war fame. It is the first time I have ever seen one. It is a big beast.

Also in that picture are a German range finder (tan) and perhaps the most famous gun of WW2, the German 88 millimeter gun mainly used as an anti-aircraft gun.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


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A Soviet Mig 23


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I also think this is the first time I ever saw a 88 mm gun in person.


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The weakest section of the museum was their armored section. 

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On an upper level they had an entire part of WW2. Note the replica Atlantic Wall bunker across the way. Don’t know why they went to the trouble given that you can take a hour and a half ride and see the real thing.


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A V-1


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Bogged down in the mud.


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All in all it was a really good museum and I would highly recommend it.

I then decided to go to the top of the arch and I was very lucky in that although it was there closing time they let me to up.

However, in another way I was not so lucky.


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See the white streaks in the picture. Anyone want to guess what they are?


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Can you figure out now what it was?


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Yes, it was hail. And it drove me back inside in probably under a minute. 

Fortunately it did stop hailing by the time I got out of the museum so I was able to walk peaceably towards the EU area and take more pictures.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


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Back to where the bureaucrats work.


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Not sure what this is going to be but the core of the building sure looks interesting.


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The Belgian national bird again.


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I then tried to make my way towards the historic center of Brussels, in particular to the Grang Place.....


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## manrush (May 8, 2008)

I am enjoying your photojourney so far. Looking forward to more.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Day 1 in Brussels continued....

I had only a vague idea how to get to the Grand Place and had to ask for directions a few times.


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Along the way I ran into an arcade.


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Belgians do like their chocolates.


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Heading down another narrow street looking for the Grand Place.


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And here it is, cloudy and wet but indeed looking grand.


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I believe everything on this plaza was built slightly before or slightly after 1700.


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Note on the right the buildings undergoing renovation and how the scaffolding is covered by a screen with their image on it. 


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I really liked these buildings in particular. They seemed the most authentic.


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The detail is just stunning.


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The statues on this building are amazing. Anyone know who they are of?


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Next I started heading down towards the stock exchange building.


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Those metal balconies make them look a bit like Hausman buildings.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Now, these actually do look like Hausman buildings


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Next it was back through the Grand Place to make my way over to the EU Parliment area.


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Note the infant angels with the scales.


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An interesting looking statue.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Final part of day 1 in Brussels.

Heading back to the EU area I first came across some rather dull buildings that looked more like something you’d see in the Soviet Union than in Belgium


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Finally, I got back to some decent Belgian architecture.


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This I believe was a music museum. No time to go inside unfortunately.


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The courthouse in the distance.


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The royal palace, which is apparently just used as a daytime office for the king these days. 


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The gate reminds me of Versaille


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A rather artistic advertisement. Note it is bilingual. Using two languages all the time has to make things significantly more expensive.


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Finally back to the EU area. Only this time I am around the parliment


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How metro stations are identified in Brussels.


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For a moment I thought this woman was engaged in the thankless task of trying to prop up the Euro. Then I realized the “e” is just for Europe.


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One interesting thing was that not only did countries have missions to the EU but individual states did too - in this case the German state of Bavaria.


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And a pretty big one too!


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A memorial to the famous Soviet dissident.


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NorthRhine-Westphalia has a mission to the EU too!


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A pretty upscale avenue on the way to the court building. But the lousy weather kept people inside.


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There were trams all over the place, though I never rode one. For some some reason I find riding trams more intimidating - the routes aren’t as easy to follow and who even knows how you get the tickets.

There was a HUGE tram barn not far from the Midi station with its doors wide open. Unfortunately I missed my chances to go into it and get some pictures.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I was told by my hosts in Brussels that that scaffolding has been there as long as they can remember.


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As we were up on a hill this elevator tower was a good idea. Unfortunately, it didn’t seem to work.


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Innovative balconies on the apartments.


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Once I got to the bottom of the hill I zig zagged in the general direction of where I thought the Midi station would be.


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This is one way to make yourself heard.


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Old and new.


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This is a very rare sight - a fully abandoned building. Looks like a candidate for renovation.


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That is one way to keep buildings from collapsing.


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And with this I made it back to Midi station, picked up my bag, and got a ride to my hosts home.

It was a long and tiring day with LOTS of walking. But tomorrow would be the biggest day of my trip.


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## Pitchoune (Jun 17, 2009)

Bad luck for the weather (!) but nice photos even if you were pressed by the time ^^.
The 2 main other things that you missed in Brussels are its cathedral and the Atomium, and you would have liked to walk around Art Nouveau and Art Deco districts. (The Art Nouveau style, from 1893 to WW1, is a speciality of Brussels, it appeared with the industrialization. It used the new materials easily available at that time, metal and glass, and it was influenced by natural forms. You saw one of its best examples in Brussels, the MIM Old's England museum. The Art Deco is its direct extension, from WW1 to WW2, and is a much more geometric style. The biggest Art Deco building that you saw is probably the Central Station along which you certainly passed considering your pictures. But actually all Art Nouveau & Art Deco districts are outside the City Centre because they accompanied the city's extension.). There is also a canal which goes all the way through Brussels from north to south, actually this canal was build (1832) to link Charleroi, and the boat lifts area that you saw, to Antwerp; the ABC canal (Antwerp-Brussels-Charleroi). kay:
And now Charleroi


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## WC_EEND (Jan 31, 2011)

600West218 said:


> Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
> 
> How metro stations are identified in Brussels.


That's actually a train station and not a metro station. Metro stations are identified by the rectangular sign with the white M on the blue background.
Also, the good thing about having bad weather is that it makes your trip more authentic I guess :lol:


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## Pistolero (May 19, 2011)

Great thread ! kay:


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## openlyJane (Feb 3, 2010)

Brussels looks to be a real treasure trove with some fascinating and exquisite buildings.


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## Wapper (Feb 24, 2011)

Of course, it is impossible to fully explore and discover all the towns on your trip on short a short time. In Brussels, you focused heavily on the European quarter, which is my least favorite part of the whole city.  Though it's good that you visited the military museum.
I am sure that next time someone from the forum will show you all the hidden gems in Brussels!


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## De Klauw (Apr 20, 2006)

To bad you didn't see the Atomium:








This is like what the Eiffel Tower is to Paris. It's build in 1958 for the World Fair of that year.

Also the Basilica of the Sacred Heart in Koekelberg is a bit of a miss:








It's one of the largest churches in the world and the largest art deco building in the world.



600West218 said:


> A rather artistic advertisement. Note it is bilingual. Using two languages all the time has to make things significantly more expensive.


Yes. But if they omit the Dutch or the French text the Flemish or the French speaking Belgians will be angry which is bad for the reputation of the company. Also it's not required. It's there one chose to use bilingual advertisements. Only governmental institutions, traffic signs and street names have to be bilingual.



600West218 said:


> The metro itself was pretty nice, though it looked suspiciously like the French one, which probably means the French had something to do with building it.


I guess all metro systems are quite alike. I don't think the French have anything to do with it. Especially since the Brussels metro is older than the one in Lille.



600West218 said:


> Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
> 
> I was told by my hosts in Brussels that that scaffolding has been there as long as they can remember.


That's a bit of a sad story. When they were restoring the cupola they thought they could save money by building a scaffolding structure covering the entire building that afterwards could be used to restore the building itself. But the required budget for restoring the building was not granted immediately. That's why the building is covered in scaffolding since at least 20 years. Even the scaffolding have to be renovated by now.

That buildings is also a great cost to maintain since the ENORMOUS size of it, it's even the largest building constructed in the 19th century. The Department of Justice is also planing to move the Law Courts to a new buildings since the Palace of Justice has literally dozens of entrances which made it difficult to secure. They planning to transform the building into a museum.



600West218 said:


> Heading back to the EU area I first came across some rather dull buildings that looked more like something you’d see in the Soviet Union than in Belgium
> 
> 
> Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


That's the Royal Library of Belgium. It's a typical building from the 50s. A bit comparable with the headquarters of the United Nations in New York. 
I quite like it to be honest. It's sober but refined. That's also what makes Brussels a very diverse city: you can find buildings from every time. Not just old buildings like in Bruges.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

I think the Atomnium is highly overrated but a peek inside the courthouse main hall and stairs would surely have been worth the time


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## Piltup Man (May 21, 2010)

600West218 said:


> 600West218, on Flickr
> 
> I think they were protesting a factory closing.


Note the French flag and the red flags with CGT written on them (CGT is France's biggest trade union). These are French protesters, but completely bypassing their own national government and protesting at the European level.


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## Karnoit (Feb 16, 2009)

*Art*



600West218 said:


> Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
> 
> A rather artistic advertisement. Note it is bilingual. Using two languages all the time has to make things significantly more expensive.


I think it's an artwork from belgian artist Jean-Luc Moerman. Some years ago they made a retrospective about him at Charleroi Modern Art Museum (BPS22), it was quite good:

_
At BPS22 by veroni on Flickr_

Btw, I think the little seashore village you visited in Northern France was Audresselles.


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## Wapper (Feb 24, 2011)

joshsam said:


> I think the Atomnium is highly overrated but a peek inside the courthouse main hall and stairs would surely have been worth the time



In comparison with the Eifel tower it is not very interesting. I don't think the design and technique from the atomium was as revolutionary in 1958 as the eifel tower was in the late 1800s. The atomium is also not visible all over town.
Still, I think that it's a remarkable building and it is the symbol for a defining period for brussels and Belgium. The expo 1958 might not be very famous to foreigners, but in Belgium it almost has a mythical status. It symbolises the end of the old centralized state and the colonial period and the beginning of the fordist time and later post-industrial time: a time of progress, but also a time of division and decline.


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## De Klauw (Apr 20, 2006)

joshsam said:


> I think the Atomnium is highly overrated but a peek inside the courthouse main hall and stairs would surely have been worth the time


I don't think it's overrated. It's a unique structure and a great monument for Brussels and Belgium. It's a typical example of a sculpture from the 50s.


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## De Klauw (Apr 20, 2006)

Wapper said:


> In comparison with the Eifel tower it is not very interesting. I don't think the design and technique from the atomium was as revolutionary in 1958 as the eifel tower was in the late 1800s.


The Eiffel tower as statement inside a historic town was certainly revolutionary. But the technique itself wasn't. It's just a big steel tower in the most simple shape you could design. It's the height that's impressive.

The Atomium is a symbol for progress and has the shape of a unit cell of an iron crystal magnified 165 billion times. 

To bad for the supporting structures. Originally it was suppose to look like this which would have been more impressive:








So the central column would bear the entire construction. The architect Waterkeyn assured that it would be stable. But the contractors did not trust it and demanded additional supporting structures for security reasons.



Wapper said:


> The atomium is also not visible all over town.


It's about 100 meters tall, that's not small. It's visible at lot's of places in Brussels.


But off course the Eiffel Tower is way more famous than the Atomium is.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

WC_EEND said:


> That's actually a train station and not a metro station. Metro stations are identified by the rectangular sign with the white M on the blue background.
> Also, the good thing about having bad weather is that it makes your trip more authentic I guess :lol:


You're right. Good catch. I might have been confused because I often got out at central station which was both a metro station and a train station


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Wapper said:


> Of course, it is impossible to fully explore and discover all the towns on your trip on short a short time. In Brussels, you focused heavily on the European quarter, which is my least favorite part of the whole city.  Though it's good that you visited the military museum.
> I am sure that next time someone from the forum will show you all the hidden gems in Brussels!


I actually wasn't finished with Brussels and I did see the Atonium. 

The main thing I think I didn't see were the neighborhoods. It seemed to be a very diverse city with a lot of ethnic groups. But I didn't get to see their areas. I was very pressed for time in Brussels.

One downer to Brussels was I was clearly back on the tourist track. The whole central area is taken over by obvious tourist shops selling small statues of the child urinating. hno: In this sense Brussels was a bit like Paris or New York. hno:


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

openlyJane said:


> Brussels looks to be a real treasure trove with some fascinating and exquisite buildings.


Indeed it is. It seems very cosmopolitan while stilling being a livable size.

There were huge groups from all different countries there attending various conferences. And I seemed to even see some royal family types from either Indonesia or Malyasia there.


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## Nijal (Mar 8, 2007)

Hello! It is coming a bit late, but I would like to add some comments to your interesting visit of Lille, and add some photos if you don't mind.

First of all, in your Day 3 your were wondering what was the monument next to the opera. In fact, it is the "Nouvelle bourse" (New trade center) built in the 1920s in front of the "Vieille bourse" (Old trade center, which was built in the 1600s). It is in a so-called "Neo-flemish" style (characteristic of Lille). Nowadays the trade center does not exist any more, it is the "Chambre de commerce" (Chamber of Commerce).


Then, in your Day 2 in Lille, you visited an old quarter which is called the "Vieux Lille" (Old Lille). It is the very historical center of Lille (located in the north of it), and the only part of the city which includes some examples of classic Flemish architecture (as you have seen in Gand/Gent). Today it is a trendy and upscale area, but in the 70s it was a very popular district in decay and promised to demolition. 

Here below are examples of how it was before and the evolution:

In the 70s and in the 2000s (Place aux Oignons):










1975:



Today:




1975:



Today:




A few kilometers southbound, there was also another historic districh which was called "Saint-Sauveur" (Holy Savior). It was not a classical flemish quarter, but a popular manufacturer district from the 17th and 18th century. Because Lille, as many other cities of the region (as Gent or Brussels), was a manufacturing textile city well before the beginning the industrial revolution. Well this district was known for its insalubrity throughout the ages. In the 19th century, the famous French writer Victor Hugo (the one who wrote "Notre-Dame de Paris", Disney made a cartoon about that) made a famoux poem:

"Caves de Lille ! on meurt sous vos plafonds de pierre !
J’ai vu, vu de ces yeux pleurant sous ma paupière,
Râler l’aïeul flétri,
La fille aux yeux hagards de ses cheveux vêtue,
Et l’enfant spectre au sein de la mère statue ! O Dante Alighieri"

which can be translated into:

"Cellars of Lille! People are dying under your ceiling of stone!
I have seen with my eyes crying under my eyelid,
Moan the withered forebear,
The tired-eyes girl hair-dressed,
And the spectrum child to the breast of the statue mother!"

This quarter was also known because it was there that was composed the famous revolutionnary communist song: "L'internationale".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L'internationale

But this quarter was completely bulldozered in the 70s, it only remains some few monuments from the 17th-18th century. Now it is soulless administrative district. Fortunately the "Vieux Lille" escaped to the destruction (see previous photos).

Then, you could have remarked in Lille this symbol:










It is the "fleur de Lys". It is present on almost every historical monument in Lille. Look at your photos, it is everywhere. In fact, it is the symbol of the municipality of Lille. Why? Well, I am not sure but I think it is because the Fleur de Lys was the symbol of the French monarchy, and when the French king Louis XIV conquered Lille in the late 17th century (before it was spanish), the symbol of the French monarchy became the symbol of Lille to symbolize the attachement of the city to its new conqueror. On the "Vieille bourse" (the old trade center, which is also the oldest remaining monument of the city), there is no Fleur de Lys because it was built before the French invasion.

Another word: in your Day 1, you appreciated some red-brick elegant big houses. Those big houses are called in northern France "Maisons de Maître" (Master houses): they are all red-bricked and were built in the late 19th-early 20th for the great entrepreneurs of the textile industry which was dominating the city. Besides, before arriving to Lille you saw some red-brick terraced houses. Those kind of houses are called "1930", even if they are oldest or newest; for example my family has this kind of house built in 1869, but it is still called a "1930". There were theorically dedicating to engineers or foremen if they had three storreys, and to simple workmen if they had one or two storreys.

Lille is at the center of an agglomeration of more than 1 million inhabitants (not as big and dense as Brussels, but almost). The two other big cities of the conurbation are Tourcoing and Roubaix. Contrary to Lille, they don't have an important pre-industrial revolution patrimony. But they are typical 19th century industrial revolutions booming cities, espacially Roubaix. In that sense, this city is unique in France. It is a complete 100,000 inhabitants red-brick city with a quite important industrial patrimony such as those reconverted factories:



















As said previously, the city has terribly suffered from the collapse of the textile industry in the 70s-80s. It is now the poorest city in whole France, and the contrast is terrible with the rich Flanders just next to the frontier (especially the aera around Courtrai / Kortrijk sometimes referred as the "Flemish Texas"). But now the city is recovering from its injuries, and if you come back in the region, don't miss its industrial testimony from the 19th-early 20th century.

I am looking forward discovering your trip in Charleroi, a very unknown city!


P.S: In the past, Lille was full of little canals a bit like Bruges or Gand/Gent. But the water was stagnant and with the industrialization it began to sink and became very unhealthy. They were progressively filled in during the 20th century.

Before:










Now:










In fact, the name of the city "Lille" comes from the old French" L'Isle" which meant "the island".


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## De Klauw (Apr 20, 2006)

Nijal said:


> It is the "fleur de Lys". It is present on almost every historical monument in Lille. Look at your photos, it is everywhere. In fact, it is the symbol of the municipality of Lille. Why? Well, I am not sure but I think it is because the Fleur de Lys was the symbol of the French monarchy, and when the French king Louis XIV conquered Lille in the late 17th century (before it was spanish), the symbol of the French monarchy became the symbol of Lille to symbolize the attachement of the city to its new conqueror. On the "Vieille bourse" (the old trade center, which is also the oldest remaining monument of the city), there is no Fleur de Lys because it was built before the French invasion.


It's the symbol of Lille. But also because of it's name. This is a typical example of false etymology. People assumed Lille was a derivation from lilium which means lily. But in fact both the French name Lille and the Dutch Rijsel (which are about equally old) are derived from the Latin word Ad Insulam (at the island), a reference to the original location on an island. Ad Insulam in old French was transformed into 'à l’isle' and later simply Lille. In old Dutch Ad Insulam was transformed into 'ter ijs(s)el' and than later it became 'Rijsel'. So you see it does not have anything to do with a lily but people though it did and that's why the lily became the symbol of Lille (already in the 11th century).


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Nijal:

Thank you very much for that stunning information.  The before and after shots are incredible. Thank god they didn't lose everything to demolition.

I will review more later and let you know what questions/comments I have.


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## Nijal (Mar 8, 2007)

De Klauw said:


> It's the symbol of Lille. But also because of it's name. This is a typical example of false etymology. People assumed Lille was a derivation from lilium which means lily. But in fact both the French name Lille and the Dutch Rijsel (which are about equally old) are derived from the Latin word Ad Insulam (at the island), a reference to the original location on an island. Ad Insulam in old French was transformed into 'à l’isle' and later simply Lille. In old Dutch Ad Insulam was transformed into 'ter ijs(s)el' and than later it became 'Rijsel'. *So you see it does not have anything to do with a lily but people though it did and that's why the lily became the symbol of Lille (already in the 11th century).*


Thank you for the information, I did not know this.

To come back to Roubaix, another fact to say how important this town used to be: in the beginning of the 20th century, its nicknames were "the French Manchester", "the 1000-chimney city", "the world capital of wool"... Indeed, the world stock exchange of wool was in Roubaix (today it is in Chicago). Roubaix and Tourcoing were specialized in wool, Lille in cotton and Armentières (where you saw the red-brick belfry) in flax -90% of the French flax production came and still comes from Armentières.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Very interesting Nijal.

I will take in more of your comments later. But do you recall the pictures I have from first being in Lille (shortly after the Ametieres belfry) of the canal with the big warehouse, and loading devices to move things between the ships and truks/railroads? Do you know if that is active? Do you know where that canal goes to?


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## antigoon99 (Oct 7, 2008)

very nice thread...seems like you had a great trip!


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## Tchek (Oct 8, 2010)

Nijal said:


> Then, in your Day 2 in Lille, you visited an old quarter which is called the "Vieux Lille" (Old Lille). It is the very historical center of Lille (located in the north of it), and the only part of the city which includes some examples of classic Flemish architecture (as you have seen in Gand/Gent). Today it is a trendy and upscale area, but in the 70s it was a very popular district in decay and promised to demolition.


Many Flemish cities (Ghent, Antwerp etc...) were in such a state back then before they fixed the place and became massive tourist attractions. It gives hope for Wallonia as many historical buildings are still in that state (unless they decide to wipe it out and build Stalinian social buildings instead...)



Nijal said:


> It is the "fleur de Lys". It is present on almost every historical monument in Lille. Look at your photos, it is everywhere. In fact, it is the symbol of the municipality of Lille. Why? Well, I am not sure but I think it is because the Fleur de Lys was the symbol of the French monarchy, and when the French king Louis XIV conquered Lille in the late 17th century (before it was spanish), the symbol of the French monarchy became the symbol of Lille to symbolize the attachement of the city to its new conqueror. On the "Vieille bourse" (the old trade center, which is also the oldest remaining monument of the city), there is no Fleur de Lys because it was built before the French invasion.



well, doesn't the name "fleur de Lys" come from the nearby Lys river?




Nijal said:


> Lille is at the center of an agglomeration of more than 1 million inhabitants (not as big and dense as Brussels, but almost). The two other big cities of the conurbation are Tourcoing and Roubaix. Contrary to Lille, they don't have an important pre-industrial revolution patrimony. But they are typical 19th century industrial revolutions booming cities, espacially Roubaix.


I heard that back in the days, Roubaix and Tourcoing enjoyed a fierce rivalry toward each others, because Tourcoing was the city of Flemish immigrants, and Roubaix was the city of Walloon immigrants...



Nijal said:


> I am looking forward discovering your trip in Charleroi, a very unknown city!


Well... Charleroi is known in Belgium as an open-air dump, even though I'm optimistic that one day it will become a brand-new modern city because the potential is there, if not the money.


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## De Klauw (Apr 20, 2006)

Tchek said:


> Many Flemish cities (Ghent, Antwerp etc...) were in such a state back then before they fixed the place and became massive tourist attractions. It gives hope for Wallonia as many historical buildings are still in that state (unless they decide to wipe it out and build Stalinian social buildings instead...)



Yes. For Liège there is hope (the city already is booming). But Charleroi has just to little historic monuments. Charleroi will never become a tourist city.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

De Klauw said:


> Charleroi will never become a tourist city.


So much the better for Charleroi. It is better to be an industrial city than a tourist city (though some places, like Ghent, are both).

And it will still get tourists, as it does now. They will just be fewer, more intelligent, and more discerning than your average tourists :cheers:

And if there is one thing this one American tourist can't stand it is being around other tourists :bash: The further off the tourist track I am the better. :banana:


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## De Klauw (Apr 20, 2006)

_Tourists are people coming to places hoping they will not see other tourists._ 


Personally I'm not bothered by other tourists. If a place is visit by lots of tourists it must mean the place is worth seeing. Only a overkill of worthless tourist shops annoys me.


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## Tchek (Oct 8, 2010)

De Klauw said:


> Yes. For Liège there is hope (the city already is booming). But Charleroi has just to little historic monuments. Charleroi will never become a tourist city.


True, though they try too hard to make Liège "modern" and there is still a long way to go before they clean up the historic parts.

Charleroi can become a German-style modern city one day. It's not a bad thing that it has very few historical monuments. The area is cheap.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Just ran accross this that shows I am not the only one who appreciates Charleroi:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/welcome-to-wallonia/charleroi-guide-markets-museums-things-to-do

_Mention Charleroi to many people and their noses wrinkle delicately. Their good manners forbid them from saying too much, but it soon becomes clear that this ex-industrial town, now Wallonia's largest metropolis, is regarded as a blemish on the face of a pretty region.

It's a shame they can't get more excited about a town with no lack of history and an unshakeable creative spirit. *Urban fetishists and those who like their landscapes with a bit of grit will be in their element here*_

That last one would be me, as you'll see later


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## Tchek (Oct 8, 2010)

If you like grit and character, underrated historical heritage, quirky out-of-the-beaten-path places and epic post-industry, I think you would have definitely loved Liège.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^The thing is that such old industrial places are not near the city center in Liège, wich is good looking and in very good shape nowadays, and would require knowledge where to find those area's and how to get there, wich is not that easy as Liège is a serious chaotic city lacking in public transport (at least in my eyes, tram network wouldn't hurt in Liège). Also the industry in Liège is still working with smoking stacks everywhere, coal, steal in Iron ore being brought in by boats... While in Charlerloi those places are easier to find, more close to eachother, compact....as for the grit, I think some inner suburbs in Liège have more grit than Charlerloi with the mills still spewing their smoke in the sky and thus blackening the brick homes more.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Tchek said:


> If you like grit and character, underrated historical heritage, quirky out-of-the-beaten-path places and epic post-industry, I think you would have definitely loved Liège.


No doubt. But I'm glad I went to Charleroi. I just really have to go back to Belgium and next time spend the full vacation there, seeing Antwerp, Liege, more time in Charleroi and more time in Brussels. Maybe a couple days around Lille too. That whole region is amazing. 

And to think, up until a year ago I had never heard of any of these places and, like a typical American, thought Belgium was just a tiny little country that couldn't possibly hold anything of interest. I was as wrong as it is possible to be wrong. :bash:

The Charleroi post is going to be big with more pictures than the prior posts have had so it is going to take a little while to get it all posted.


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## Tchek (Oct 8, 2010)

joshsam said:


> ^^The thing is that such old industrial places are not near the city center in Liège, wich is good looking and in very good shape nowadays, and would require knowledge where to find those area's and how to get there, wich is not that easy as Liège is a serious chaotic city lacking in public transport (at least in my eyes, tram network wouldn't hurt in Liège). Also the industry in Liège is still working with smoking stacks everywhere, coal, steal in Iron ore being brought in by boats... While in Charlerloi those places are easier to find, more close to eachother, compact....as for the grit, I think some inner suburbs in Liège have more grit than Charlerloi with the mills still spewing their smoke in the sky and thus blackening the brick homes more.


600West218 seems to like chaos so it'd be no prob.

Liège has a truly fascinating industrial history...

for the record, here is what Victor Hugo wrote when arriving in Liège somewhere in the 19th century



Victor Hugo said:


> *
> 
> But then evening comes, the wind dies down, the meadows, bushes and trees are silent, you can hear nothing but the sound of the water. The insides of the houses are lit dimly; objects disappear like smoke. In the stagecoach the travelers yawn as though it were a yawning contest, saying: We will be in Liège in an hour. At that moment that the landscape suddenly takes on an extraordinary appearance. There, in the forests at the foot of the brown, fuzzy hills to the west, two round eyes of fire burst and blaze like the eyes of a tiger. Here, beside the road, a terrifying flame shoots up eighty feet high in the landscape, assaulting the rocks, forests and ravines with sinister illuminations. Further on, at the entrance to this valley hidden in the shadows, a huge mouth full of embers opens and shuts brusquely, releasing horrible hiccups and a tongue of flame.
> 
> ...


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Does that asks for a video


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## Pitchoune (Jun 17, 2009)

Nice video!

And here two pictures of the same factory.

I really hope it will be conserved once the activity is gone

The red stadium is the one of the Standard de Liège :cheers: (not very good this year though)



















(sorry for the credits)


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Charleroi

Finally, the time had come to visit Charleroi. This was my most anticipated day of the trip. Ever since I saw pictures and videos of its industries and canals, and had seen the amazing canal locks not far from it, I expected it to be the highlight of my trip.

Given that I had a lot to see there in a short time, and only a day trip from Brussels to do it in, and that I knew nothing about the layout of the place I figure the best route was to do the “Urban Safari” that some had already told me about.

I did manage to get ahold of someone from the Urban Safari before beginning my trip and exchanged a few message. But they seemed not to realize that I had no way to communicate by phone in Belgium and that I needed to have a pre-arranged meeting place and time for this to work. They never gave that, so the Urban Safari was out.

This meant that I was completely on my own, would have to find my own way around, would be in a city where probably not many people spoke English and really had a lot of things I wanted to see. Frankly I was a bit nervous about the going there and thought I’d likely end up disappointed and without having seen what I wanted to see.

Regardless, there was nothing to do but go for it and so I did. I got up and out early and got (with the help of my host) to Brussels Central station where I bought a ticket for Charleroi.

Waiting on the platform there was this train:


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Pretty mediocre. If you don’t have more talent than that you shouldn’t be defacing public property. But regardless, the mood was being set for Charleroi.

Rolling in towards Charleroi


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

There was actually a LOT of industrial scenery when we were arriving in Charleroi but taking pictures through train windows generally doesn’t work - as you can see.

But the good thing was that I could see the industry was fairly close to the main train station and I even had a sense what direction it was in. However, my plan was to go first to the massive new locks and historic old locks outside of Charleroi and only explore Charleroi itself when I got back.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Arriving, I immediately went into the train station terminal which was actually quite modern and clean with places to eat and decent stores. I needed to find the tourist office, which I did, to get information on how exactly to get to the canal locks and the industrial parts of Chareloi. Unfortunately, the woman manning the tourist center didn’t know anything about any canal locks nor did she know much about industrial areas of Chareloi. She seemed completely perplexed that a person who didn’t speak French and had obviously come from another country was asking about such things. She did tell me about the coal mining museum and some photography museum but as I came here planning to TAKE pictures, not LOOK at them, I left the tourist office rather frustrated. 

I knew the locks were in Louviere, a small city not far from Chareloi, so I went to the ticket counter to buy a ticket to Louviere. The man selling the tickets promptly asked if I wanted to go to the Louviere Central or Louviere South Station. Which is better for getting to the locks I asked? He said he didn’t know. Ughhhhhhhh. Off to a bad start already. I just guessed - Central. Hopefully a station called “Central” will be bigger and I will have a better luck there.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

On route to Louviere we passed coal trains - the first I had seen. Some mines around here obviously still work. We also passed lots of “terrils”, or small hills of waste materials from old industry.

Little did I know you have to go to Louviere South first anyways, and then get off and take a little shuttle train to the Central Station. Another delay, another thing going wrong.

At least in Louviere there was some higher quality graffiti:


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr



Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This is the little two car shuttle train.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Arriving at the Louviere Central station felt like being dropped off in the middle of nowhere - the place was desolate. The station building, which I would have to walk through to get out, didn’t look much bigger than a decent sized house.

Inside the station was one ticket counter, a couple muslim woman who looked like they were homeless, a vending machine for snacks and this:


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Yeah, it was a pain to get there, yeah it seemed desolate, and yes I hadn’t even seen anything yet, but when person like me, with my interests, walks into a train station with this on the wall - well, I know I am in the right place. My heart warmed and I think I cracked a smile even though there was no one to see my smile.

I think that mural (which has an amazing amount of material on it if you really look at it) covers the main industries of the area - steel, glass, and mining. This is an industrial area and clearly they are proud of it. Me likes!!!


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Lets see, they have blast furnaces, mines, and glass blowing. That is obvious. They also have a sewing machine, scissors, and a spool of yarn so I guess they had textile industry here too.

Notice the guy on the far right - he seems to be making pottery. So I guess they had that too. In the center is a farmer plowing and people above him harvesting, they still must have agriculture.

The main thing I can't figure out is all the laboratory flasks. Did they have a chemical industry here too?

Anyways, I am short of time so I go outside and catch my first break of the day - there is exactly one taxi sitting there waiting for passengers. The driver doesn’t speak English but I show him a brochure with a picture of the locks, he writes the number 20 on a piece of paper and we’re off.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The cheerful scene directly across from the station.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

We passed mainly old industrial era housing like this with a few factories too. After a 2 or 3 miles it gave way to some fields and we wound up going under some massive overpass.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I didn’t know what that was, only that it seemed much bigger than your normal highway overpass.

We turned left went down a road lined by fairly modern light industry. Then it came into view:


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

At this point, as the car drove down into the parking area I was thinking something along the lines of “oh my fucking god, this thing is big”. And I know what big is - I live in New York City and go to construction sites such as the World Trade Center where people fawn over how big their cores are, etc. I can assure you, this thing is on a totally different scale. It is an absolutely massive hunk of concrete with lots of machinery in it.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Seeing this I immediately knew all the effort to get here had been worth it. When you see things like this you know why you travel - no picture, no book, no written description can make you appreciate what this is truly like. You simply have to go and see it with your own eyes. I will post plenty of pictures, but they won’t show you what the place is like, they can only maybe show you why you should go there.

BTW, just to get some scale here, look at the cars/trucks at the bottom of the picture. Then note the concrete and steel blocks suspended by cables high up on the structure. Those are counter weights and each one of them is practically the size of a house. 


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I noticed no one working around this place wore hard hats. I guess if one of those things falls on you a hard hat wouldn’t help much.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

That is the “bathtub” that boats get hoisted up in. Again, there is nothing in the picture that really gives scale, but as you’ll hopefully see in other pictures, it is huge.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Notice how clean and orderly everything is. No visible flaws in the concrete or steel. Clearly excellent workmanship (and a lot of pride) went into building this beast.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This is with my back to the lock facing down the canal. The canal divides to go to both of the lifts.

Next I went inside. The have a pretty good visitor center and the people there all spoke decent English. I asked if they would be able to call a taxi for me to get back to the train station when I was done and they said yes - that was a big relief.

They send you up to the 8th floor (it is much higher up than 8 floors but it is probably the 8th floor than people can access) where you see an excellent video (with a handset in whatever language you need it in) on the need for this lock, its purpose, its design, and its construction. On the 8th floor there are large windows overlooking the machine rooms.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Again, there is nothing there for scale, so you will just have to take my word for it that the machinery is huge.


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A very good diagram showing canals across Belgium and northern France.


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Note the massive yellow crane used to move machinery.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Ships waiting to transit the locks. Keep in mind, this thing not only lifts boats like the large on on the left but it is also lifting the massive concrete tub that they are in AND all the water needed in that tub to keep the boat afloat.

While on the 8th floor there started to be a lot of noise and an employee told me they were lifting a boat and that if I went down to the 5th floor I could see it better. So I did.


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The viewing angle was actually pretty lousy and the windows dirty but you can make out the boat in the tub - the front of the boat has light blue colors.


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Massive counterweights. 


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I went up to the eighth floor to take some more pictures.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

In this picture you can see on the left, up on a higher elevation, the old canal and one of the silver painted steel old locks. The new lock that I was in was built to replace four old hydraulic locks that formerly took boats through here. They needed a bigger canal and bigger locks but couldn’t afford the water loss that comes with traditional locks so this is what they built.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Keep in mind, this picture only shows the equipment on ONE side of the lock. The other side, with a different tub to be lifted, as its own, identical, equipment room. I was lucky enough to see them both.


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The other canal with the other lock.


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The furthest I could see with my camera.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Note the terrils in these pictures.


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Looking back towards Louviere.

Also, in the visitor center I found out what the overpass that I went under was - it was the canal!!. After this lock the land actually dips again. Rather than building additional locks to lower and then raise the boats again they simply built a HUGE concrete viaduct to carry the canal over the dip. I’ve never seen anything like that before!


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I went townstairs and outside and looked up to see one of the raised tubs. Not how clean and dry it is. It isn’t leaking any water!


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

You have to get a ways away from this thing before you can fit it in a picture. Again, scale is a problem but note the tiny looking cars at the bottom left.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Boats waiting to head in.


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That is all I can show for the moment. To be continued with more posts tomorrow....


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## Wapper (Feb 24, 2011)

I've also visited it and it was really magnificent. When I was there, there were only a few visitors. It's sad that people are not very interested in this structure.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Great pictures 600 west! If you had time enough you could just walk along the old canal back to La Louvière too wich has enough interesting historic boatlifts (3) locks and hostoric draw bridges along it  I feel bad now for not saying that before in your help thread :/ but i showed them in pics an might think you'd find out the route of the canal yourself on a map. It's a 6km walk though.


Edit: There are no working mines in Belgium itself though but because of the steel mills in Liège that are still working and also some activity in Liège coals and iron ore in brought in mainly from Germany by river barges and trains. The area in Belgium with steel industry and coal mines is actually part of the same coal layer as the massive Ruhr Area in Germany where the coal is transported from wich also makes it into a small part of France...

map with still working mines:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/CoalDNLBF.png/300px-CoalDNLBF.png

I live close to the Kempen-Limburg area. Every town in that area grew around a coal mine and every town has it's own or several mine ruins, some restored and used for other purpose, others left to rot and decay. There was no steel industry, the coal was transported south on the King Albert Canal towards Wallonia.


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## De Klauw (Apr 20, 2006)

Great photo's I also was impressed when visiting the boat lift of Strépy-Thieu. But take in mind it's considered a waste of money since it's designed when the coal mines were still open. Now it's structurally underused. Just like that other big structure: the inclined plane of Ronquières.


And it's a shame that the NMBS is not taking the graffiti problem on trains serious. hno: The should follow the New York approach: don't let the train depart with graffiti on it.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

De Klauw said:


> And it's a shame that the NMBS is not taking the graffiti problem on trains serious. hno: The should follow the New York approach: don't let the train depart with graffiti on it.


I don't think we have enought trains for that  and they allready run so greatly on time...(sarcasm) I don't even want to know what happens then? One train a day? Because the rest was full of graffiti...

What they should do in the first place is secure trainyards better. In most you can just walk in or jump an easy fence.... they aren't even guarded.


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## Wapper (Feb 24, 2011)

De Klauw said:


> Great photo's I also was impressed when visiting the boat lift of Strépy-Thieu. But take in mind it's considered a waste of money since it's designed when the coal mines were still open. Now it's structurally underused. Just like that other big structure: the inclined plane of Ronquières.
> 
> 
> And it's a shame that the NMBS is not taking the graffiti problem on trains serious. hno: The should follow the New York approach: don't let the train depart with graffiti on it.


I am not sure if it is still underused today. Canals are becoming more and more important today, so hopefuly they'll get the money out of the investment.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Thanks for the info.

From what I could see the canal was heavily used. The lifts went up and down transporting cargo barges numerous times in the time I was there. Plus I saw other barges in action. You'll see in the upcoming pictures.

To get rid of the graffiti New York put in double layered fences around the rail yards and had dogs between the two layers. Also, more importantly I think, all new cars they bought were specially made to be able to take a special bath that could wipe any paint off of them.


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## WC_EEND (Jan 31, 2011)

I can just walk up a small hill, cross a few tracks and start tagging trains if I want to. That's how badly protected the railyards are (or at least the one just beyond Gent-Sint-Pieters).


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Wapper said:


> I am not sure if it is still underused today. Canals are becoming more and more important today, so hopefuly they'll get the money out of the investment.


Yes, the higher energy costs are the more they'll be used.

Not everything there seems efficient, which probably explains their problems. Note in the video of Liege that was posted they are transporting bulk products arriving in a barge with a excavator. In the US that stuff would be transported by huge "lakers" that are self-loading/unloading which would be much less labor intensive. It is probably the same way in Japan, Korea and other potential competitors of these steel mills. So I imagine it is tough for them to compete. But I am still rooting for them. Hopefully, they'll hang in there.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^They have bulk conveyors in Liège too...I also wondered why they where doing this by an exacavator.... Anyway everything is pretty outdated just because of the fact that in those countries you mentioned everything is cheap so people don't invest in that anymore overhere... Also very little steel in still produced compaired to half a century ago. It's pretty much a death industry branch in Europe anyway. You must have also seen a much more modern steel factory in Gent... I wonder how long they'll be able to compete against Asian countries.

example in Liège: http://goo.gl/maps/N5Be


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

The locks of Louviere continued...

Now my objective was to talk along the canal and visit the site of one of the old hydraulic locks which was a kilometer or so away.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Here comes another barge, again showing that this canal is quite busy.


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It is quite impressive how they fill these barges to the max. 80% of that thing has to be below the waterline. One leak and they’ll be under water in no time.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The majority of these barges take their cars along with them. I guess there are cranes somewhere to take the cars off. It must be an interesting life traveling around Europe on one of these barges. 


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Finally I have reached the lock number 4 of the old canal. Note it too has two tubs, and in this case the one on the right is in the upper position while the one on the left is in the lower position. It turns out, they actually work together with the weight of the upper one being used to push up the lower one, so the two can never be in the same position. It is always the case that one is up while the other is down. So don’t be confused by the huge locks we just saw - these smaller and older ones work in a completely different way. The big new one is powered by motors that “lift” the tub up. On these old ones it is that both tubs are supported by pistons that go into a waterfilled pipe that is connected to both. When one tub is made heavier than the other its weight pushed down on the water and that water pressure pushes the other tub up.

Before I visited this site I thought both sets of locks worked in the same way - but they don’t. They work in completely different ways even though they both raise up huge tubs of water with the boats in them.


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There is a pretty good explanation of how it works. The only thing I don’t quite get is how do they get an extra 30 cm of water in the upper tub? Is is pumped in? I


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There you have a very clear shot of the piston. Note all the esquisite steel work that supports the whole length of the tub which goes far in front and behind the piston. This thing isn’t a UNESCO World Heritage Sight for nothing.


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Look how perfect those seals are. That is full of water yet there is no leakage. The whole thing is very well maintained.


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Hey, there goes one of those tractors doing construction work and evading taxes!


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I am not sure what the role is of the narrow metal “bridge” right in front of the lock.


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I think this is all the same explanation, just in French.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This is the operations structure and, I believe, the residence of the caretaker of the canal. I didn’t take a picture of it but on the other side there were children’s toys and swings indicating that children lived in the building.


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Cars are passing underneath the old canal here. They then go on a bridge to pass over the new canal.


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This shows the piston holding everything up. It might be hard to note but I think you can see the area under the piston is completely dry - there is simply no leaking water. I don’t see as much as a speck of rust or chipped paint. They really take great care of this.


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Here you see the lower tub and all the water in it.


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Amazing steel work here. I know these is of course not as awe inspiring as the Eiffel Tower but I think the quality of the steel work is on a par with it.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Here we go, visual evidence of tractors being used in construction, as it turns out, to evade taxes. If I had known why they were doing this, and had a cell phone that worked, I might have called the police.


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There were stairs to walk up to the upper level of the canal, which I did.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Looking along the upper part of the canal. Note the new locks in the background.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Very nice pathways along the canal. You can probably bike for quite some ways along the canals.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The two pictures above were taken from the same spot, just facing different directions.


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I walked back to the new lock along the old canal and went through a tiny town.


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Very nice homes and an awesome location. I wouldn’t mind living there at all.


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Shoot, the other tub is being lifted and I’m missing it.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Note the area where the tub is lifted. Completely dry. Somehow they manage to open and close the gates to the tub without spilling any water in this bottom part. No idea how they do that.


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Note how there are little rollers (well, not little, but they look little in this picture) that the tub must rest on. I wonder what that is about?


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Looking up at it. I don’t want to be around the day that thing ever falls.


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Here I’ve walked over to the other side where I also see an empty base as the tub has been lifted up. Note the counter weights.


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In another stroke of good luck the tub started being lowered while I was there.


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Here you can just begin to see the bottom of it peak out from under the structure.


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Very nice, it has a barge in it!


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Almost all the way down.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Starting to lift the gates - note the water spilling down.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I wonder if a gate has ever fallen and cut a boat in half? I guess they would then call it “the Belgian Guillatene”. 


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Note they have their car with them too.

It was now time to race back to the train station and get back to Charleroi in time to do a good amount of exploring there.


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Sorry for the lousy picture but that is the canal viaduct.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Back at Central Station in the Louviere.


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I was told there is a big and active steel mill in the Louviere and it is only about a 20 minute walk from the station. But I didn’t know which way it would be and I had no time. But Louviere looked very interesting in its own right. I will have to come back and explore more.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Unfortunately I had to wait a while for the shuttle train to show up.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This was a little “station” that we stopped at. There were a bunch like this.


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Coming into Charleroi again.


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A lot more cargo trains than passenger trains around here.


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I wonder if they still use rail cars like the little red one on the left? In the US they’ve pretty done away with freight cars and replaced them with flat cars that only carry shipping containers.

Back in Charleroi some the remainder of the day and some of the best exploring awaited me...


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## Andre_idol (Aug 6, 2008)

Took me some time to go through the 15 pages, but boy was it worth it! Easily one of the best threads I´ve seen. And I love when the person describes his trip and gives us his view of the places he´s in...and when those places are the same where you´ve also been to it´s even better!

Not surprised by the grey weather at Brussels...got the same :lol: Paris is beautiful, was too young when I went there and I must come back...although I did climb all the gazillion stairs up to the second level of the Eiffel Tower...and honestly if you´re in good shape and a fan of architecture nothing like admire the tower while getting up.
As someone mentioned here you should have took a sneak peak to Antwerp...and even more if you would arrive there by train...that station... :drool:

Last but not least...no idea about all of this canals and locks :uh: That modern one is a huge thing of a beauty...to the "to go list" it goes!!

Keep them coming and I know you have other thread about England...I´ll check it between my relaxation period between studying to the final exams of this semester 
Thanks mate :cheers:


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Andre_idol said:


> Took me some time to go through the 15 pages, but boy was it worth it! Easily one of the best threads I´ve seen. And I love when the person describes his trip and gives us his view of the places he´s in...and when those places are the same where you´ve also been to it´s even better!
> 
> Not surprised by the grey weather at Brussels...got the same :lol: Paris is beautiful, was too young when I went there and I must come back...although I did climb all the gazillion stairs up to the second level of the Eiffel Tower...and honestly if you´re in good shape and a fan of architecture nothing like admire the tower while getting up.
> As someone mentioned here you should have took a sneak peak to Antwerp...and even more if you would arrive there by train...that station... :drool:
> ...


Thanks, glad you are enjoying it. BTW, I have heard many good things about Portugal from other travelers and hosts. Hopefully I'll get to do some exploring there sometime in the not too distant future.

:cheers:


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Now back in Charleroi I was ready for the second part of my exploration. I first stopped back in the tourist office to tell the woman about how the locks turned out and how to get there so she could advise future travelers. It turned out she had used the time to do some research too and gave me an incredibly nice map and guide called “Itineraire de la Culture Industrielle” which had a fantastic map, suggested route and information on all the sites in Nord-Pas de Calais and Wallonie. If only I had this earlier!!!

For those interested the web-site is here:

http://www.ici-itineraire.eu/index.html

With a map and some directions in hand I headed out to find the industry, and specifically the terrils to climb up on.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The canal running right through town.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
Some sort of monument.  Though to what I am not sure.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I had to go a bit to the left to get to the avenue that would take me to the canals and industrial area. There were actually some not so friendly looking people along the way so I had to be careful.


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At least there is some new construction here.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

A pretty mediocre area but at least they have palm trees.


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Sort of typical here. Neither old nor nice.


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Ok, now I am on the avenue I need to be on. The green hill on the right is a terril and is my first destination.


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A gate to nowhere now.


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The terril turned out to be pretty steep. I don’t think the place I climbed it was where I was supposed to climb it, but whatever, it was the first place I came to. 


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This steel mill is active. There were people and machines working around it the whole time.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The most important thing is I didn’t even break a sweat getting up there.


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Another terril


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Looking in the opposite direction at some working class housing.

The interesting thing is none of it appears to be terrace housing. That tells me this was built after the first, textile driven, part of the industrial revolution, probably in the 1920s or so.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The far left would be back towards the train station where I started.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The hard flint like ground there. It is actually surprising anything grows in it.


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Back down on street level to continue walking along the avenue. Suffice it to say, I was the only pedestrian in sight. Not sure what the drivers thought seeing some crazy person walking through here 


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The overpass I am walking under is actually the Charleroi metro.


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Both the canals and the industry are alive and working in Charleroi and here comes the proof.


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A barge full of scrap metal here. Note the woman on the front with a radio in her hand. She is giving instructions to the person piloting the barge. Just guessing, but I imagine it is a husband and wife team. An interesting lifestyle...


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The barges are surprisingly long.


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Definitely scrap metal.


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Two things: Note, they have their car with them. And also this is clearly a barge/tug boat combo not a single long boat like the Pininches are or the other ones we saw were.


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Continueing down the avenue. Note the tram line in front.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

And there goes the tram.


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Wow, so these are coke ovens!!! This appears then to be a fully integrated steel mill.


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A curious place for this sign.


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And here is where the scrap metal winds up.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This seemed like a very new power generating plant mixed in with all the old steel mills.


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For some reason they didn’t seem that welcoming towards tourists.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The best graffiti I’ve seen so far. If you check out that web-site, Rapschrift.de you’ll note they’re professionals 


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These were the support beams of the metro station all of which had graffiti all the way around them.


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It’s one way to spruce a place up.


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That looks like a lot of work.


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The strangest color steel mill building I’ve ever seen.


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At this point I was really tired and thirsty and probably looked like this.


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I saw some cars parked in front of the building across the street and some people outside unloading something. These were the only people I had seen around here and I decided to go check it out.

To my surprise, they were quite friendly and invited me in. Upon entering I was astounded.


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It was a grouping of giant old steel mill buildings turned into a art gallery, art workshop, club, bar, and music venue!


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In one part people were setting up for a concert.


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In another huge room they were chilling at the bar/loung - and I thankfully got some much needed drinks.

Note the orignal vents in the background which are at tables where people can sit around a fire or artisans can do work with metal.


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And if someone starts messing with you you can just grab a big wrench and smack them 


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Not sure why someone is trying to restart the crusades.


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All during May they were having events. I was really bummed that I could not stay around to see some of them.

Also, I was told that this was previously the site of the industrial museum of Charleroi. But that moved out to the big coal mine and then this was taken over by artists.


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Really nice effect to have all the original cranes hanging overhead. I just hope someone has inspected them and they won’t fall in my beer as I am drinking.


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You can’t see it in pictures but that piping was actually a waterfall. There was lots of water pouring out from behind it.


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A nice little 40 foot tall robot that someone made.


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Unfortunately although they had lots of people arriving for a pretty big party I had to go to do some more exploring.


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I then crossed back over the avenue to go to the metro station that was there.


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This is the view from the metro station.


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No subway stations in New York have a view this nice :-(


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The main problem with this desolate little station was I was the only person in it and I didn’t see any way of buying tickets.


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I also didn’t really know which way to go but I figured this direction was as good as any.


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Eventually the little metro train showed up and I got on. Frankly I was pretty nervous because I didn’t have a ticket. I guess if I got caught I would just have to pretend to be a stupid tourist - which I was.


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We did pass some canals.


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The area where we were going kept getting more suburban and even a bit rural. Eventually I just picked a station and got off.


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As you can see, it wasn’t exactly overflowing with crowds. But at least there was a Metro worker there who was able to help me operate the machine to buy a ticket so I could be on this thing legally. I then caught the next train going back towards the city.


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This was the same station where I orignally got on.


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You actually get a pretty good view of all the piping from the Metro.


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Maybe that is their convention center?


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I made my way back to the train station to head back to Brussels.

I was quite sad to be leaving Charleroi after such a brief stay, less than a day. But I had accomplished my main objectives - seeing the canal locks and checking out some of the industrial sections of Charleroi. Given that I didn’t even know if I could do that and given how difficult it is to function in that part of Belgium speaking no French I was really happy to have accomplished that. So I left very satisfied and knowing that I definitely wanted to come back to this place. There was so much left to explore - the coal mines and industrial museum, more of the canals, the residential districts and center, the small city of Louviere. For anyone interested in industrial heritage this city calls for at least 3 or 4 days.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Rolling back out of town.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Never did make my way to where these were. Next time.

I actually got back to the Central Station in Brussels quicker than I expected, so I decided to walk around there a bit more.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr



Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This looks like it belongs in Charleroi more than in Brussels...



Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Going from where I just was to this in little over an hour was a bit of culture shock.

But that is the amazing beauty of Europe - you can go from one amazing thing to something completely different very easily. It’s as if you don’t have to choose between beautiful architecture and grit, between centuries old and modern, or between urban and rural - you really can have it all, and often times in the same day!


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

It was nice to see the Grand Place in better light than the day before. It really made it shine a lot more.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I liked this street. Though I would really love to see what the residences are like in those buildings.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I wandered into a mini Asian area.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Some very stately homes with nice bay windows


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Actually, now that I think of it, these buildings in Brussels seemed to be more of an off-white whereas in Paris they were biege or tan.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I had heard the Grand Place was nicely illuminated so I went to see that with the lights on.


Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

It definitely did look nice, though I couldn’t stay until it was completely dark. I had to get back to my hosts place and by the time I got there it was 11 pm. It was a long exhausting day and at times frustrating. But no doubt about it, it was the highlight of my trip. Next time I go to Belgium I am checking for flights straight into Chareloi


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## Tchek (Oct 8, 2010)

The old-steel-mill-turned-bar was actually included in the Charleroi Safari tour so it's fortunate that you ended up stumbling upon it


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Tchek said:


> The old-steel-mill-turned-bar was actually included in the Charleroi Safari tour so it's fortunate that you ended up stumbling upon it


Interestingly, the subject of the Safari came up at the steel mill bar and they were a bit dismissive of it, saying that you can make your own "safari", which is exactly what I did.

If I had done the Safari I probably would have seen more, but maybe in less detail.

Anyways, I'm happy with the way it went and if I can hook up with the Safari people in the future and see still more things that will be great too.


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## Wapper (Feb 24, 2011)

The street you liked in one of the last pics of Brussels is the Rue Dansaert/Dansaertstraat (well it's actually the first part of it, which is called Ortsstraat). The Dansaertstreet is quite famous as a trendy and alternative shopping street. It is the home of many famous fashion designers. Until 30 years ago, it was very much in decay though.

About the tax evading: You were probably joking, but it's still funny to see your reaction. In Belgium nobody really minds tax evading too much. We even call it our national sport :nuts:

The pedestrian road or bicycle road next to the canal is very typical in Belgium. I think you can find them along all canals and many rivers. On a sunny day in the weekend, it can be very crowdy on those roads and you have to watch out for crazy bikers.


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## Buffalo Soldier (Jun 13, 2009)

600West218 said:


> Here we go, visual evidence of tractors being used in construction, as it turns out, to evade taxes. If I had known why they were doing this, and had a cell phone that worked, I might have called the police.


They were not doing anything illegal, were they? Just using tax regulations in their advantage.

BTW: evading tax is a national sport in Belgium :cheers:

edit: like Wapper said


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## tigalion (Nov 28, 2011)

Nice thread with great pictures and interesting comments. I know some of the places you 've been to but I've never looked at them the same way you do.


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## Filandon (Jun 24, 2009)

Love those industrial areas, some reminded me to certain places in Northern Spain. Something curious is that in most European countries heavy industry is most of the time located in the northern part of the country (well, not Belgium but Germany, Spain, France, Italy, England, also in USA...) it is mainly because coal mines are usually a step away from them but no matter the reason still it is a casuality.

Very nice informative thread, I enjoyed very much the canals


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## Wapper (Feb 24, 2011)

In Germany, industry is everywhere  Mostly in the west and the east though.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Filandon said:


> Love those industrial areas, some reminded me to certain places in Northern Spain. Something curious is that in most European countries heavy industry is most of the time located in the northern part of the country (well, not Belgium but Germany, Spain, France, Italy, England, also in USA...) it is mainly because coal mines are usually a step away from them but no matter the reason still it is a casuality.
> 
> Very nice informative thread, I enjoyed very much the canals


Thanks.

Where in northern Spain do they remind you of? I could be heading that way in the not too distant future and now you know what I like to see


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

On the tractors, I was more or less joking 

But actually, I think using tractors in contruction could be a great idea. It could be very efficient and allows machines that go unused a lot of the time to find a lot more work. Plus it probably helps the farmers alot.


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## Filandon (Jun 24, 2009)

600West218 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Where in northern Spain do they remind you of? I could be heading that way in the not too distant future and now you know what I like to see





This thread is about old industrial buildings in Spain that have been restored and have new uses, is in Spanish but there tons of pictures and a useful index so you know where they are located:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1493857

In my region, León, we enjoy de National Energy Museum in the city of Ponferrada made in an old coal termic plant. We have many mines around here, most of them with no longer use

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=736214

Avilés, in Asturias with Ensidesa
http://www.flickr.com/photos/c0ntraband/4629770900/

The harbour is also spectacular and a very interesting project by Brazilian architect Niemeyer has been carried on

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=906818


I would say the most similar areas to Charleroi in Spain are Asturias and the area around Bilbao, there are many huge factories that are still in use, let me do a small search and I'll send you a few pics. I´ll send you by pm not to destroy your beautiful thread, and who knows if we see you around here, it would be great


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## ko7 (Sep 7, 2009)

Thank you very much for this great thread. Here is a (bad) translation of how the old locks work. 


There are 2 chambers. The chambers are over an hydraulic piston and the two pistons are link which each other (so that when you want to lift one chamber, the other go down).
How it works without any boats: Assume there is 2.40m depth of water in each chambers. They weight the same: 1000T. If you open the valve commanding the hydraulic pistons, the two chambers, having the same weight, are in equilibrium. Now to break this equilibrium just add an additional 30cm of water (around 75T) to the chamber. This chamber will go down and the other one will go up.
If you put a boat in one chambers (without locking the door), the chambers will still weight the same: due to archimedes' principle, the boat will remove water from the chambers. This amount of water is equivalent to the weight of the boat. Thus the two chamber will have the same weight whether there is a boat in one or not. Now it works the same as before: just add some water in the upper chamber.
You ask how they add the water, your answer is at the end of the paragraph. The chamber going down will stop with his 30cm of additional water being above the level of the lower canal. Thus you can remove water (and then the boat) from this chamber. The chamber going up will stop 30cm below the level of the upper canal thus you can add the water. 
For a boat to enter (or leave) the chambers, you need to create a link which do not leak. This is done using a big bellows to remove water between the doors of the canal and the chamber (I believe, they use the same trick on the new lift).
To make the hydraulic pistons, the doors and everything else work, they use pumps which provide water at 45Kg/cm^3. Funny thing, to make these pumps work, they use some water wheels with the water coming from the upper level.


Still, there was no answer for role is of the metal bridge in front of the lock.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Filandon said:


> This thread is about old industrial buildings in Spain that have been restored and have new uses, is in Spanish but there tons of pictures and a useful index so you know where they are located:
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1493857
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I will definitely look at this. And on the good side, I speak Spanish so exploring there should be a bit easier for me.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

ko7 said:


> Thank you very much for this great thread. Here is a (bad) translation of how the old locks work.
> 
> 
> There are 2 chambers. The chambers are over an hydraulic piston and the two pistons are link which each other (so that when you want to lift one chamber, the other go down).
> ...


Thank you very much for all this helpful information and translation. It definitely does clarify some things. I guess the stopping 30 cm short would work. I wonder though if they have to have little doors in the gates to let the 30 cm difference equal out more calmly before they fully pull the gates up. Wouldn't just pulling the gates up with 30 cm difference might create a lot of turbulance in the water? Then again, maybe not.

That is also amazing about Archamides principle, I completly forgot about that. This has big implications for the large new lock. It means the tub with the water will always weigh the same no matter if it has a boat in it or not nor how big the boat is. That then means they can have the counter weights EXACTLY match the weight of the tubs and water all the time. That would make things a lot easier on the motors.

The tricky thing for me is still the gates. They have two on each end. One goes up and down with the tub and one stays in place when the tub moves to keep the water in the rest of the canal out. They both have to be pulled up for boats to enter and exit. What amazes me is the area below the tub seems to stay completely dry. I guess that means the two gates must be perfectly sealed so that there is no water between them when they are both dropped into place after a boat has passed. If they weren't perfectly sealed together and there was water between them when the inner gate went up with the tub and the lower gate stayed down the water that had been between them would spill into the area vacated by the tub. At least that is what I think.

And yeah, using the water power from the upper portion of the canal to power things like opening and closing the gates is neat. In New York on the Barge Canal which was built at basically the same time they used electric motors to operate the gates. Using water power is so much more elegent. I would like to know how they did it.


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## Tchek (Oct 8, 2010)

The Walloons are historically the mechanicians of Europe :cheers:


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Tchek said:


> The Walloons are historically the mechanicians of Europe :cheers:


I've come to the conclusion that Belgians are very industrious people. I looked up their Per Capita GDP on the internet and was amazed (stunned) that it was high than Germany's!!

Belgium is a very affluent country, even with whatever problems they have. And you certainly do see lots of industry everywhere. Even coming into Midi station in Brussels from France you pass a big car assembly plant (wasn't able to get pictures hno: ).


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Charleroi looks very interesting, I should go see it some time, and I see that you got to see its famous one-way ring road 


>


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## ko7 (Sep 7, 2009)

600West218 said:


> I wonder though if they have to have little doors in the gates to let the 30 cm difference equal out more calmly before they fully pull the gates up. Wouldn't just pulling the gates up with 30 cm difference might create a lot of turbulance in the water? Then again, maybe not.


You are perfectly right. I did not translate this part because I did not understand the importance of it. They said that the door can be lowered a little. 



> The tricky thing for me is still the gates. They have two on each end. One goes up and down with the tub and one stays in place when the tub moves to keep the water in the rest of the canal out. They both have to be pulled up for boats to enter and exit. What amazes me is the area below the tub seems to stay completely dry. I guess that means the two gates must be perfectly sealed so that there is no water between them when they are both dropped into place after a boat has passed. If they weren't perfectly sealed together and there was water between them when the inner gate went up with the tub and the lower gate stayed down the water that had been between them would spill into the area vacated by the tub. At least that is what I think.


For this part I don't know. I am not an engineered and, even with the french explications, I did not understand very well how it works. Thus my translation may not be really good (moreover I am not very good in english). 
Maybe someone with better knowledge can look at the french explications and tell if the answered is there.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

DanielFigFoz said:


> Charleroi looks very interesting, I should go see it some time, and I see that you got to see its famous one-way ring road


Huh, I didn't even notice that. Is that for real? A one direction ring road? No counterclockwise allowed? :nuts: :bash:


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

ko7 said:


> For this part I don't know. I am not an engineered and, even with the french explications, I did not understand very well how it works. Thus my translation may not be really good (moreover I am not very good in english).
> Maybe someone with better knowledge can look at the french explications and tell if the answered is there.


Your translations were very good and very helpful. It reminded me of some high school physics I forgot :lol: Thanks alot for doing the translation. :cheers: The more we understand, the more we can marvel at things and truly enjoy them.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

600West218 said:


> Huh, I didn't even notice that. Is that for real? A one direction ring road? No counterclockwise allowed? :nuts: :bash:


Nope, but it's a very small ringroad. 3-4 lanes in one direction elevated at the South side and tunneled at the North side.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Is tax evasion in Belgium that bad? Great pictures btw.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

LtBk said:


> Is tax evasion in Belgium that bad? Great pictures btw.


No, but compaired to countries like The Netherlands it probably is. But everything is regarded bad in Belgium compaired to The Netherlands so it doesn't really say much. It's just that our tax system is the second most complicated in Europe afther Spain. So if one on purpose makes a tiny fault, it's hard to find out... You always try to pay as little as possible (wich is still a lot because we also have one of the highist taxes in Europe) but you also need to make sure you don't pay to little or they'll charge you more the next year  But most Belgians are king in making sure they pay as little as possible by for instance not mentioning specific details . But if you really evade taxes it won't take long before they catch you.


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## tigalion (Nov 28, 2011)

600West218 said:


> I've come to the conclusion that Belgians are very industrious people. I looked up their Per Capita GDP on the internet and was amazed (stunned) that it was high than Germany's!!
> 
> Belgium is a very affluent country, even with whatever problems they have. And you certainly do see lots of industry everywhere. Even coming into Midi station in Brussels from France you pass a big car assembly plant (wasn't able to get pictures hno: ).


That must be the Audi plant where the A1 is assembled. 






Belgium used to be the biggest car producer per capita => but now Slovakia is leading =>. Since back then 2 car assembly plants were closed but the car industry remains important in Belgium with 3 major plants: Volvo in Ghent (the other one that you have seen), Ford in Genk and Audi in Brussels.


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## ko7 (Sep 7, 2009)

Thanks. I don't have much problems reading english but when it was very hard for me to translate this small text.


On another subject, you may want to look at the history of the métro of Charleroi: it is unfinished with some abandoned section.

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleroi_Pre-metro


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## Wapper (Feb 24, 2011)

The R9 is just a very small inner ring road. The real Charleroi ring road is the R3.

About tax evasion: I don't know how bad it is in Belgium in comparison to other countries (it's not as bad as in Greece :s), but it's something that many Belgians try and that is generally accepted. Unreported employment (I don't know the right English word for it. We call it 'working in black') is also rather rule than exception in horeca and for people like plumbers and handymen.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Those assembly plants are vital for a lot of jobs in smaller companies that supply them. For instance the biggest employer in my town in Teneco Automotive wich supplies engine parts and suspension systems to Ford Genk. If Ford Genk closes those 3 plants in my town would also close wich means hundreds would go workless in this plant alone. Closing such plants is a real social nightmare...


@ Wapper: I think it's calles 'the black jobs market' in English.


@tigalion: I noticed in the video they bring pressed parts to the plant. In Ford genk they still press all those parts themselves. I know because my father works there and I also worked there for 2 years as vacation worker. In Ford they even make the wheels on spot and the dashboards ....I think it's more than an assembly plant alone.
ford genk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWf1osx8rzQ


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## De Klauw (Apr 20, 2006)

600West218 said:


> Huh, I didn't even notice that. Is that for real? A one direction ring road? No counterclockwise allowed? :nuts: :bash:


It's also almost entirely build on viaducts (with some quite spectacular interchanges). It's also build literally above the train station so I think you must have seen it.









You may notice lot's of infrastructure in the Charleroi area is a bit 'overdone' (it also has a subway for a city with a population of under 200,000). In the 60s and the beginning of the 70s Charleroi was booming and the goverment wanted to make Charleroi a big city. But because of the economic downfall as caused by the closure of the heavy industry Charleroi even declined in population.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

De Klauw said:


> It's also almost entirely build on viaducts (with some quite spectacular interchanges. It's also build over the train station so I think you saw it.


OMG, no, I didn't notice that!!!! Gosh, you have to look everywhere in Belgium, even up. You never know where they might have built something :nuts:


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## Wapper (Feb 24, 2011)

I wonder if they still need this motorway in the middle of the city. Other towns would have closed it a long time ago.


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## Coihaique (Feb 22, 2011)

Avalanix said:


> You know, I know it, 600West knows it.
> By the way! I recommend you to visit this thread which shows that Cologne has indeed very nice hictorical buildings which were left out by 600west:
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1410376


Oh - again you know, what other people have to think. I alfways talked about different tastes, but you can't accept it.- And after seeing your threat. Are you joking? This should change my mind? - I somehow like the Rheinauhafen - this was the thing I thought about when talking about some nice newer developments. - But the first 6 pictures for example are exactly what I meant. The Gründerzeit of Cologne or what is left is realy not impressive. Have you ever seen the Gründerzeit of Leipzig? -- And well if you use this pictures - I even have to say, this is not even better than Chemnitz Kaßberg or not even parts of Chemnitz Sonneberg. Resently I have seen a Chemnitz-thread here - go and see. Well I expect you will say you don't like it, but please don't tell me what I have to like. - And of course if a city is double as big as an other, I expect double time nice areas. How much in percentage of a city is nice is important, otherwise alsways the big cities would be the nicest, which is nonsense. And wiht this eyes - yes - I found Lille much better.


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## Avalanix (Aug 5, 2007)

Just read my last post, watch the pictures closely again, stop trolling around and never compare Cologne with Chemnitz again.
Thanks!


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## Wapper (Feb 24, 2011)

600West218 said:


> Funny you should ask. I had that idea recently and have been doing a fair amount of exploring of off the beaten track interesting places in New York City and State.
> 
> 
> Sooooo, I finally started a thread on it today which I will keep updating as I explore.
> ...


Let's move to this new thread :cheers:


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## Coihaique (Feb 22, 2011)

Avalanix said:


> Just read my last post, watch the pictures closely again, stop trolling around and never compare Cologne with Chemnitz again.
> Thanks!


Just read my last posts, watch the pictures closely again, stop trolling around and never compare Cologne with Chemnitz again, because you were the one, who brought Chemnitz into this topic, not I. Thanks!


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## Tiaren (Jan 29, 2006)

Avalanix, calm down, okay? 

I as well disagreed before, that there wasn't much to see in Cologne, that's definitely wrong. Alone Cologne's churches are world class! But, honestly, the cityscape is very mediocre, not to say ugly. It really is and most people would agree. Most of all, if they recently visited a city like Paris or those beautifully preserved belgian cities.


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## Avalanix (Aug 5, 2007)

I don't think I have to calm down from anything here. Cologne is really far from being mediocre and absolutely doesn't have to hide from Ghent Brussels whatsoever! I don't see anything ugly in Cologne not even in 600Wests pictures.
That Cologne is lacking historical buildings is just wrong.









by fellow forumer Helmet222
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=93233915#post93233915

Looks this ugly to you? Well tell me then what in your opinion is beautiful.


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## Coihaique (Feb 22, 2011)

First I have to say, I normaly don't like to say bad things about other cities, because of course everyone loves his home town and the best place on the world is the place where your friends live.
But yes Avalanix - you offended me somehow in one other actual thread by calling East Germans uneducated, corrupt and so one and spoke about East Germany in a very unpolite manner. So yes I maybe reacted a little bit more sensitive on your comment (600West must be drunk because he thinks Cologne is medicrite) than I would have done by other users. And the reaction is also that I am in this case very confident: I realy travel much and I prefer historic cities, but also like some of the very modern developments, but I dislike for example the 60s style of West Germany and also Plattenbauten of East Germany and hate 60s buildings more than some a little bit run down streets, where I tend to see the potential after renovation and I have to say, with this as background I think Leipzig is so much better than Cologne, I will even say Halle is so much nicer than Cologne (I know Halle has very ugly areas, but also some realy nice one).
Avalanix choose one of the nicest pictures of that thread and I have to say, yes this picture is definitly not ugly, maybe even nice, but this Gründerzeit buildings are realy simple compared to the Saxon Gründerzeit, even in so small cities like Zwickau, not to speak about Görlitz or Leipzig. - I will take the 5 last pictures of that thread an explain, what I don't like - and places like that are the majority in Cologne, that was at least my impression:
So picture 1: One very nice building on the left. In Leipzig you can find km²s were every building looks like this, here and there a few buildings which are "modern". All the other buildings on this picture are - yes - thats my opinion - blah - if not to say ugly. If Avalanix can show a street picture with 25 or so buildings of the quality of this one building without any building like the buildings on the right street side and with a better street space, well I will say, I didn't found it, but why this is also never seen in the picture threads of Cologne? And if he shows such pictures of 4 or 5 different streets than I am glade to say - I underestimated Cologne.
pictures 2,3 and 5: I don't have to say anything. What is nice about this? In fact it is damn ugly.
picture 4: one very simpel building from the Gründerzeit, with ugly roof and ugly windows (of a kind you now only find realy seldom in Leipzig or Dresden) - the other buildings just blah.

In fact of the thread Avalanix recommended to see how nice Cologne is there are only 4 or so pictures which are o.k. or even nice, the rest ist not. By the way he didn't answer, if he was in Chemnitz or not. But I was in Cologne and exactly have seen this. I am waiting for the pictures of the realy nice historic quarters of Cologne, I am sure there have to be some.
In Lille I found very view of this, but complete quarters with complete historic architekture.




Helmet222 said:


>


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## Avalanix (Aug 5, 2007)

Dude! You can find those corners in every other city as well. May it be Ghent Paris Rome whatever.
By the way you can't compare west european cities with former the likes from the former east. The east has been polished and refurbished since 20 years. It's rather a surprise if they wouldn't look good. 
And Leipzig has as well commieblock areas as well as dresden zwickau in particular.


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## Helmet222 (Sep 14, 2009)

This discussion above is so pointless. I don`t think one can compare so different cities as Leipzig and Cologne.
Been to Cologne and to Leipzig. In my opinion, Leipzig is a wonderful cities full of nice buildings. It looks a lot better than Cologne, although it is not as large and diverse. Just take a look at the "Südvorstadt" in GoogleEarth. It`s really amazing, I actually never thought eastern-german cities would look this way. They really did a better job after WW"2 than Western-Germany. 
Cologne is a wonderful place too. Of Course, the quality of most buildings isn`t that good, many of them are just so boring and the city can be very dirty, but if you live there it has also a lot to offer. The city itself is so diverse. U can take walk at the rhine river, u can cross many bridges, public-transport is great, multicultural places like Ehrenfeld and Mühlheim, student-lifestyle in the southern parts, lots of greenery and so on. The cathedral will never cease to amaze you. It`s one of those places you can only judge by experience, not just by looking at pictures.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

I am really looking forward to visiting Germany in the coming years. I really hope that not everything is so contentious there :bash:


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## Avalanix (Aug 5, 2007)

Alright. You guys are right I completely agree now. How could I've been so blind ? 
Cologne is really sh*t ugly boring etc. but Brussels and especially east german cities (which was never the topic here) beats the hell out of Cologne don't know how this idea came up to my mind.
Sorry for offending.


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## Coihaique (Feb 22, 2011)

To make an end to this discussion from my side. Cologne is a very important city in Germany - the 4th biggest and important in many fields (media, art and so on). Cologne has the reputation to be a very open and tolerant city - and diverse. If you are different you will maybe love to left the sometimes constriced smaller cites, even if this cities are mostly far more idyllic, and love to live in Cologne. With its cathedral Cologne has a landmark only view cities have to offer. Cologne also has (which is often a little bit unknown) romanic churches of highest quality and quantity. Cologne was long time Germany biggest city and before the war must have been very beautiful. I wish Cologne some nice procjects so it can also develop some "perfect" quarters. Something like "Stadtumbau Ost" should be started immediately for some west German cities. I know there is also a programm "Stadtumbau West" but more money should flow in this direction. -- Even if all you heard about East Germany is Stasi, The Left, Rightwing extremists, high unemployment - I think in many fields West Germany (expecially Northrin-Westpfalia) can learn form the experiences of the East in the last 20 years, even if they have to bear down their ego for this. Otherwise I would invite to come to see the East (45% of the West Germans have never been in the East and many others only one time) - you will be surpised how beautiful Schwerin, Erfurt, Halle and others can be - and also be surprissed that cities like Chemnitz and Cottbus have realy nice areas and are in no way worse than many cities of the same size in the West. Not to speak about the many picturess small cities - for Saxony I could give a strong recommendation for more than half of its cities with 20.000-50.000 people. The only thing you have to deal with is many cities seem to be a little bit empty because of the strong decline of population in the last 20 years, but this is definitly not true for cities like Dresden, Leipzig and Weimar and as far as I know now many cities in the West are also expected to decline in the next 50 years, so again they can learn.


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## MattN (Oct 25, 2008)

I've just been to Duesseldorf with a friend of mine, driving through France, Belgium and the Netherlands on the way. Didn't really get any photos of the cities, too busy looking around I suppose, and I didn't really get on with the camera I borrowed. I got a few of Zollverein in Essen, Landschaftspark Nord in Duisburg, Tagebau Garzweiler and half-demolished Pesch though. I might upload a thread if they're any good.


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## balthazar (Jul 19, 2007)

600West218 said:


> [
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nice views


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## Linguine (Aug 10, 2009)

thanks for the beautiful pics...kay:


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## GM (Feb 29, 2004)

Great photo report ! The whole is even more interesting thanks to your genuine comments 600West218 !
I especially loved your pics of Charleroi. I don't know the city (never have been to Belgium) and I was impressed by all the massive industrial buildings and infrastructures (the subway, the ring) of the city.

When you was in Paris, you happened to wander just next to my neighbordhood. I live near these (infamous) towers :


600West218 said:


> Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
> 
> Well, at least they were trying to be innovative - but they failed, in a 1970s sort of way.


I made some threads about them and my neighbordhood some years ago :
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1285097&highlight=
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=805434&highlight=


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## Jongeheer (Sep 19, 2010)

My two cents, the history/architecture-geek in me couldn't help it 



600West218 said:


> Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


The picture above is obviously Paris. The picture below is what used to be the main train station in Ghent, which unfortunately got demolished as the new central train station (the one you arrived in) was built around the time of the world fair in Ghent (1913).








​
Actually, the station and tracks were right at the South Park, or King Albert I Park, where coincidentally you also wandered 



600West218 said:


> Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr





600West218 said:


> Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
> 
> This building(s) is stunning and I am not happy with the pictures at all. They just do no justice to it. It is the Ghent town hall and is quite old. It was built in two parts, which are clearly distinct. The right hand side is about a hundred years older than the left hand side (1530s versus 1630s). Both parts are truly stunning.


There's more to this story, even with a surprise intervention by Napoleon Bonaparte himself 



> The town hall is situated on the site where until 1482 the town representatives and guild's men met in separate houses. Because these houses were judged too small and too unrepresentative for such important people, it was decided that a new and bigger town hall had to be built. The first stone of this new hall was laid in 1482. The building was finished in 1484. Very soon, however, also this new hall was considered too small and from 1518 until 1535 a new and much bigger town hall was constructed in late-gothic style. In 1540 Ghent suffered reprisals from emperor Charles V because the citizens had dared to refuse to pay more taxes to the emperor. By then, only one third of the planned town hall had been constructed. It was only as from 1572 that Ghent could continue to build its town hall. However, the architectural style had changed and several renaissance-style parts were added to the building until the beginning of the 18th century. In 1750 a construction in Louis XV-style was added as the seat of the 'chamber of the poor'. In the beginning of the 19th century the staircases in front of the hall were changed for a visit of Napoleon.





600West218 said:


> Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
> 
> Here they had an earthen dam blocking water for some sort of work.


Just like in Paris, a lot of waterways in Ghent were covered up to make room for the personal automobile, either by filling them in or putting a roof over them. Today (or should I say: for the past ten friggin' years) the city of Ghent is working to reinstate this little waterway connecting the historical center and the old harbor to its former glory. What they were actually working on there was - I feel bad for you, seeing you like locks, canals and such - a brand new lock.




600West218 said:


> Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
> 
> A very old church tower for some reason not maintained.


That would be because it's school property. But I believe I read somewhere they are going to do something about it soon.



600West218 said:


> Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
> 
> Very nice new modern apartments where I stayed. The integration of new and old in Ghent was quite nice. I wonder what was here before though.


A pretty huge newspaper office, along with printing presses and such 





600West218 said:


> I finally saw them again at Charleroi at a construction site being used as dump trucks. In fact, I don't think I saw any dump trucks in Belgium (or France either) so I guess they use these instead.
> 
> Maybe they are preferred because they see them as more flexible in being able to be used in both construction and agriculture. In France they also used tractors to pull fishing boats out of the water.



Jep, we have developed the tendency to use tractors as dump trucks in Belgium. They're cheaper to run (fuel wise and tax wise) and they're more maneuverable/smaller. Who knows, the crane might get some competetion regarding the national mascot-thing :lol:

I'll see if I can fill you in tomorrow on the questions/wonderings/... that the other Belgians haven't covered, if you'd like that. And may I add, this is one of the most interesting showcases my eyes have laid rest on. That, and you have an exquisite sense of humor!


And... if you're still in doubt as to the windmill blades at Oostende, they were moved out to sea that day, something I witnessed 




Jongeheer said:


> ​


Hope you enjoyed it. To the French and Germans bickering: this is the 21st century you're living in, using Belgium to fight your wars is so twentieth


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Jongeheer:

Thanks for the information!! By all means, feel free to share any and all information on these sights. I really like it and I absolutely love learning the history of places that I saw.

On that train station I can't immediately tell which it is. The Gare du Nord in Paris and Gare du Flanders in Lille both were pretty similar, and I was told on this thread that the Flanders station was the original Gare du Nord in Paris!!

That is great that Ghent is working to dig out the old canals and put them back in service, even if for recreational purposes.

I think I recall being told by the person I stayed with that those apartments were where a newspaper printing factory had been. In fact, he pointed out the houses behind there that were old housing for the workers - I posted a picture or two of it.

I was really pissed that I didn't have more time in Oostende. If I hadn't been running late I would have gone over to get a closer look at those turbines and the huge ship cranes with them. But by the time I got back from the Atlantic Wall they were gone and I had to rush back to Ghent anyways. That is what happens when you stay out too late drinking beer :-(

Anyways, thanks for the information and please do share more as you can.


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

GM said:


> Great photo report ! The whole is even more interesting thanks to your genuine comments 600West218 !
> I especially loved your pics of Charleroi. I don't know the city (never have been to Belgium) and I was impressed by all the massive industrial buildings and infrastructures (the subway, the ring) of the city.
> 
> When you was in Paris, you happened to wander just next to my neighbordhood. I live near these (infamous) towers :
> ...


Hi GM:

Thanks for the feedback and the links to those threads. Paris really looks different in the winter!! 

Were most of the apartment buildings in your threads "social housing". They look pretty nice, at least by American standards, but then the common areas look run down and filled with graffiti. I found that area of La Defense quite interesting. It was clear from the little that I saw, such as the cemetery, that there was something there before. Then in this thread I was told about the big riots there decades ago.

I would really encourage you to visit Belgium. I think you'll really like it.

BTW, you fantastic trip reports from Russia have served as my role model in making my trips and writing trip reports. Thanks for the inspiration! And trust me, I really, really want to get to Noralisk :banana:

And I plan on traveling to Russia soon so maybe I'll need some advice.

:cheers:


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## GM (Feb 29, 2004)

600West218 said:


> Were most of the apartment buildings in your threads "social housing".


Some are social housing, like the Tours Aillaud for example, the tall camouflage-clad towers I quoted in my precedent post. It's a pretty infamous housing project.
Others are privately owned flats, inhabited by tenants or by the owners (like my building).



600West218 said:


> It was clear from the little that I saw, such as the cemetery, that there was something there before.


The park you can see in the second thread I linked is the place where were located the last parisian slums before being cleared in the 1970's.
You can see them in this pic posted earlier in this thread by eklips :


eklips said:


> Here's a picture of the famous slum right next to the "CNIT", the building which is in the middle of la Défense and that you showed in your photos:





600West218 said:


> BTW, you fantastic trip reports from Russia have served as my role model in making my trips and writing trip reports. Thanks for the inspiration!


Really ? Thanks !

:cheers:


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