# Travelling to Iraq



## Rapid (May 31, 2004)

xx


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## SouthernEuropean (Apr 2, 2007)

good luck with this one..wishing you the best..that's all i can say


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## Audiomuse (Dec 20, 2005)

Are you really sure you want to go to Iraq at this time??

Crazy, you've got some guts man. I'm sorry, but I've got no information for you...

All I've got to say is good luck!

-macon4ever


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## Audiomuse (Dec 20, 2005)

Wow,Southern European and I posted basically the same thing at the same time lol. telepathy??


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## SouthernEuropean (Apr 2, 2007)

haha lol macon!i just saw it..yes i think it was some kind of telepathy..you never know..


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

Rapid said:


> Hey all...
> 
> I need help from very experienced travellers, who may have travelled in hostile environments. Me and an Iraqi friend from Basra are planning a trip to Iraq, with plans of short excursion everyday through selected neighbourhoods of Baghdad (most likely will be entering by ferry to Umm Qasr then drive via secluded roads). Are there any travellers here who have visited Iraq Lebenon or Israel/Palistine since 2003 that would like to comment on their trips? I met one student who visited, but lost contact with him a few months ago.


Perhaps you guys should wait a bit until the country becomes serene once more (if it ever does) ...pity about Iraq, Baghdad especially.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

Rapid said:


> Hey all...
> 
> I need help from very experienced travellers, who may have travelled in hostile environments. Me and an Iraqi friend from Basra are planning a trip to Iraq, with plans of short excursion everyday through selected neighbourhoods of Baghdad (most likely will be entering by ferry to Umm Qasr then drive via secluded roads). Are there any travellers here who have visited Iraq Lebenon or Israel/Palistine since 2003 that would like to comment on their trips? I met one student who visited, but lost contact with him a few months ago.


I would probably NOT go to Iraq if I were you, if you do...be very safe.

I have heard that the highways in Iraq at first are rife with bandits, especially in the South. A Western tourist with an Iraqi is a like a prize to them and they may (or you may not go through trouble at all) kidnap you. And don't get me started on Baghdad, cruising through the neighborhoods when the city is during a state of war isn't a good idea at all.

If you do this, well you have extreme courage and I hope nothing happens. Personally, I wouldn't visit it until things calmed down intensely, which isn't happening anytime soon.

Probably Kurdish Iraq may be a OK place to visit however. At least that area is doing well.


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## Rapid (May 31, 2004)

rotten777 said:


> I would probably NOT go to Iraq if I were you, if you do...be very safe.
> 
> I have heard that the highways in Iraq at first are rife with bandits, especially in the South. A Western tourist with an Iraqi is a like a prize to them and they may (or you may not go through trouble at all) kidnap you. And don't get me started on Baghdad, cruising through the neighborhoods when the city is during a state of war isn't a good idea at all.
> 
> ...


Hopefully its courage instead of a misjudged reality. Thats the primary thing. I want to hear what others have to say about their trip before I make my final decision. I dont want to march into the departure terminal with my head up, and crap my pants when I hear the first clip being emptied in Iraq. It's best to get in touch with the true reality, not an artificial one built from the television and newswires.

That being said, I expect people on this forum have visited Iraq. I even know some Iraqis that have visited before now and after 2003 (but only in the South).

I also am suspicious of the "Extreme advisory against visiting Iraq" seen on the websites of the foreign affairs ministries of Canada and the US. Obviously they would say that, because the less of their nationals in a warzone...the less burden put on their governments.


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

Make sure you put an american flag on your backpack.


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## Rapid (May 31, 2004)

goschio said:


> Make sure you put an american flag on your backpack.


:lol:


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## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2004)

I consider myself an experienced traveller, but even if you offered me a million Euros/Dollars I wouldn't go on an overland trip in Iraq that includes such things as cruising around the Baghdad neighbourhoods.

Courage has nothing to do with going on such a trip, but only downright stupidity.

Iraq has lots of cultural treasures, no doubt about this. But it is as far away from a tourist destination (even for very experienced travellers looking for adventures) as possible and that's unfortunately not going to change within the next 5-10 years.

Iraq right now is a warzone, where hundreds of people are killed each and every day and a foreigner is like the ultimate target for many terrorists there.

Furthermore Iraq is not a country where you can move around just as you like it. I guess if the US troops stop your car at a control point and realize you are neither a journalist or somebody who works there and that you also travel without bodyguards that would mean the end of your journey.

So if you would like to play the leading role in an Al-Qaida video featuring terrorists beheading a western tourist, go for it. Otherwise I can only strongly advise you to look for another destination.


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## CrazY (Dec 17, 2005)

dude you'll get kidnapped!! 

i wont recommend it :S


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## jmancuso (Jan 9, 2003)

in addition to iraq, may i suggest other places?

spend a few days in gaza and get your picture taken with some friendly hamas militants waving RPG's in the air then journey to west bank where you can buy a souvenir keffiyeh like the one arafat wore. i also heard kabul, mogadishu and darfur are lovely this time of year.


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## Audiomuse (Dec 20, 2005)

^^^ LOL!!!!

Yeah, rapid i would wait until the country is more stable before going...


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

Rapid said:


> Hopefully its courage instead of a misjudged reality. Thats the primary thing. I want to hear what others have to say about their trip before I make my final decision. I dont want to march into the departure terminal with my head up, and crap my pants when I hear the first clip being emptied in Iraq. It's best to get in touch with the true reality, not an artificial one built from the television and newswires.
> 
> That being said, I expect people on this forum have visited Iraq. I even know some Iraqis that have visited before now and after 2003 (but only in the South).
> 
> I also am suspicious of the "Extreme advisory against visiting Iraq" seen on the websites of the foreign affairs ministries of Canada and the US. Obviously they would say that, because the less of their nationals in a warzone...the less burden put on their governments.


While I am sure that there are safe places where people live normally, I'm not going to be delusional to myself, it's an uncertain warzone that wouldn't even be safe for visitors of Iraqi descent. There may be a little bit of semblance, but that's in a sea of instability, and Baghdad is the eye of the storm.

While I would normally be suspicious of that "advisory" (they have advisories for practically half the world), this is one of the advisories that make sense to me. In the US's case, they don't want any MORE Americans there than the over 150k there right now, so it makes no difference to me.

I would wait a while. Iraq will eventually be nice after they go through this involuntary change forced upon them by the Americans, they are going through the violent transitions now which was going to happen obviously. They have too much potential to become a Somalia (which has been in pointless conflict for 16 years and counting).


jmancuso said:


> in addition to iraq, may i suggest other places?
> 
> spend a few days in gaza and get your picture taken with some friendly hamas militants waving RPG's in the air then journey to west bank where you can buy a souvenir keffiyeh like the one arafat wore. i also heard kabul, *mogadishu* and darfur are lovely this time of year.


The Mog is quite the beautiful city in June...

...if you wear a bulletproof vest and bring an AK! :gunz:

(All this poking at myself is really hurting me inside, just kidding)


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## Rapid (May 31, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> I consider myself an experienced traveller, but even if you offered me a million Euros/Dollars I wouldn't go on an overland trip in Iraq that includes such things as cruising around the Baghdad neighbourhoods.
> 
> Courage has nothing to do with going on such a trip, but only downright stupidity.
> 
> ...


Is it really that violent? The city has 7 million people in it, and they're living their lives normally. Westerners look too afraid for anything.



jmancuso said:


> in addition to iraq, may i suggest other places?
> 
> spend a few days in gaza and get your picture taken with some friendly hamas militants waving RPG's in the air then journey to west bank where you can buy a souvenir keffiyeh like the one arafat wore. i also heard kabul, mogadishu and darfur are lovely this time of year.


Looks like hell is gonna break loose in Gaza as Hamas just secured it for themselves, therefore it makes it an option



rotten777 said:


> While I am sure that there are safe places where people live normally, I'm not going to be delusional to myself, it's an uncertain warzone that wouldn't even be safe for visitors of Iraqi descent. There may be a little bit of semblance, but that's in a sea of instability, and Baghdad is the eye of the storm.
> 
> While I would normally be suspicious of that "advisory" (they have advisories for practically half the world), this is one of the advisories that make sense to me. In the US's case, they don't want any MORE Americans there than the over 150k there right now, so it makes no difference to me.
> 
> ...


My friend visited family in Mogadiscou before the violence there and got a picture with AKs and the locals. Right now anything like that is too stable. Going to a stable place defeats the purpose of me going.

Baghdad is in a war, but its no Somme or Stalingrad


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## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2004)

Seriously, I wonder if some of your answers are for real or if you are just joking. If you don't, you really must have a death wish.



Rapid said:


> Is it really that violent? The city has 7 million people in it, and they're living their lives normally. Westerners look too afraid for anything.


They live anything but a normal life....how could they, given the circumstances. Basically everyone in Baghdad only leaves the house if they have no alternative, otherwise people lock themselves in their homes and there is barely a family that hasn't lost a family member in the ongoing war.

Westerners too afraid of anything? I don't think so. I've walked the streets of Johannesburg, Mexico City, Casablanca and Detroit at night, I've been the victim of an armed robbery and many other crimes during my travels and have developed quite a bit of experience when it comes to safety on travels. Part of that experience is also to realize that there are no-go-zones and no matter how tempted you are to go there, that you have the smartness for your safety's sake to say no. And Iraq right now is one giant no-go-zone for a westerner.



Rapid said:


> My friend visited family in Mogadiscou before the violence there and got a picture with AKs and the locals. Right now anything like that is too stable. Going to a stable place defeats the purpose of me going.


Yup...a holiday isn't great unless you see lots of misery, death, desperation and destruction...right? hno:


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

why are you going to Iraq? do you really care?

or are you just trying to be "different"?
ask yourself honestly if you are "trying" to be the "type" of "enlightened" "traveller" that many college students in N. America want to be. 
if that is the reason... then dont go.


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## Rapid (May 31, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Yup...a holiday isn't great unless you see lots of misery, death, desperation and destruction...right? hno:


Ok...why does travel always have to be considered a "holiday"??



luv2bebrown said:


> why are you going to Iraq? do you really care?
> 
> or are you just trying to be "different"?
> ask yourself honestly if you are "trying" to be the "type" of "enlightened" "traveller" that many college students in N. America want to be.
> if that is the reason... then dont go.


Not "want to be"...its "are". Its not actually striving to be different...its striving to be a like, but just with a different crowd. I know some college students in my college who have already gone to hostile environments. They're back sitting in the same lecture hall as me, so why not me?


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## FREKI (Sep 27, 2005)

Rapid said:


> Hey all...
> 
> I need help from very experienced travellers, who may have travelled in hostile environments.


Hey... I might be able to help a bit.. 

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT - IT'S WAY TOO SOON FOR CIVILIANS!




Rapid said:


> Are there any travellers here who have visited Iraq Lebenon or Israel/Palistine since 2003 that would like to comment on their trips?


I've spend a couple months in southern Iraq... and let me start by saying going as a civilian is a BAD idea, no matter who you know or who you are with!

In the south you'll want to enter by car ( with ALL the papers needed ) from Kuwait... that will take you on a highway north - this road is full of traffic and pretty safe as long as you don't look too caucasian - remember that Iraqis don't need driver lincences - being male is enough - so driving here is VERY dangerous - it's not unusual with pile ups with deathcouths at 5+ ( I kid you NOT! ) so make sure the car you drive is solid and with modern safety features.. 

( at the very least you'll need a sat phone, mobile, extra gas, gold and lots and lots of dollars )

This road is used a lot by coalition forces but don't expect them to stop and help is civilian as the military here is normally conwoys and not security patrols...

If you go north-northeast you'll hit Basra - the city itself is safe enough ( but DON'T drive around the northern suburbs!!! ) - keep in the car in unpopulated areas... there's not much worth seing here, but the areas along the water might be worth a brief visit... and the markets.. 

From there you can follow a fairly safe highway up to Al Qurnah where the Tigris and Eufratees meet.. there you will find a nice little park with a single tree said to be the tree of knowlegde from the Bible..
Whatever the three is or was it's remarkable that it's left alone by the locals despite being dead and wood being in such a high demand!

Going north from there you will hit Al Amarrah and you'll enter a danger zone that goes all the way up to Baghdad..

Alternatively you can go west from Al Qurnah to Nasiriyah where you'll find the old Mesopotamien city of UR ( or what's left of it )... the city is relatively safe but like the rest don't offer much.. the bridges has a lot of military history, but it's not a safe area if you loo too interested in it, so stay in the car..


North of that is unsafe all the way up is indians land too, so drive fast and don't stop until you reach the green zone in Baghdad ( if you'll even be able to enter it )

All US controlled territory is extremely dangerous compared to Danish or British ( the south ) - I'd keep in MNDSE's area if I was you!
Oh and keep in mind you can NOT rely on help from international forces - and you will not be alowed inside in any base anywhere!

An alternative to Baghdad would be the safe Al Faw peninsula - here you wont have much worries, but it's a desolate area heavily scarred by the Iran-Iraq war.. the most interesting will be along the Shat Al Arab river where there's lush and green... but this is also tribal territory ( like ALL river areas ) so take care and don't drive around the same area for too long..

There's very few hotels, and those there are will just get you kidnapped doing the night - and sleeping in the car the same, so stay with locals you trust or the few international hotels used by reprters and news crews..


All in all it's a REALLY bad idea to go alone or in a small group.. and I doubt you'll be able to rent a car for the purpose and even if you'll have an extremely hard time finding gas for it, as there's few gasstations and huge lines the days they actually offer gas..

You'll also be in huge risk of kidnapping even if your mate has tribal ties or you hire local security - Iraq is divided in tribes and religious groupings, and even the local cops and military work for their local shiek before the goverment and most are open to make a few quick bucks by handling over a few westerners to the local Al Queda or insurgant group ( there are large bouties! )..

There are many roadblocks, both by military, police and local tribal forces, most will check your stuff, so bringing weapons will only land you in jail or get you killed, so DON'T!
If hirering security go with an American group with ALL the permits needed, even the Kuwaitis can not fully be trusted...

If you really do want to see it for real, look up some official US protected achiologic group - going alone will be extremely expensive ( around $10-20.000/week I'll think ) and still ridicules dangerous..

Or you could join the military - it'll greatly decrease the risk and you'll even get payed!


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## Rapid (May 31, 2004)

^^

You're the person who I was waiting for to reply  
From your previous threads I knew you were/was a soldier and there were connotations that you went to Iraq. So far the advice looks damn good.

I actually have a brown skin tone, and could easily pass off as a native (if I wasn't brown, I wouldn't even think of going...my japanese friend shrieked at my proposal to go to Iraq, and bailed out...I dont blame him).

I'm wondering how widespread the US dollar is being circulated in the country. What about new Iraqi dinars in order to not stand out as much? That currency is softer then cake (note the pic). Gold seems too inflexible.










US Department of Commerce (only branch of gov't who are giving travel info...and for obvious reasons) also suggested going from Kuwait to Safwan, Iraq. Basra is most definetly gonna be a checkpoint/rest spot as its the only place where we will get free accomodations.

The roads are a big problem and fear me the most...IED's suck. I'm guessing there are little detours or alternative routes. Travelling along from Al Qurnah to Nasiryah seems the better route then to to Al Amarah as it has Ur and Babylon. Wouldn't this route cut throught the 'triangle of death'? Even thought the violence there was in 2004, I wouldn't know of its status right now, so I'm not taking chances.

I found this nifty report by the Brookings Institute (http://www.brook.edu/fp/saban/iraq/index.pdf). Probably the most important document I can get for the trip (unless anyone has another).

But we've decided to postpone until atleast Spring/Summer 2009 (after US general elections) because we're getting a 100% warning "DONT GO!" rate...frome everybody--people like you, organizations and the Canadian foreign ministry. This is not something we cant be stubborn about.


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## Rapid (May 31, 2004)

double post


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## FREKI (Sep 27, 2005)

Rapid said:


> I actually have a brown skin tone, and could easily pass off as a native (if I wasn't brown, I wouldn't even think of going...my japanese friend shrieked at my proposal to go to Iraq, and bailed out...I dont blame him).


You need to be able to talk the talk too, as you will face offcial ( and unoffcial ) roadblocks around every 10-15km...



Rapid said:


> I'm wondering how widespread the US dollar is being circulated in the country. What about new Iraqi dinars in order to not stand out as much?


Haven't been in country since 2005, so I'm not sure, but back in the day all you needed was dollars...




Rapid said:


> The roads are a big problem and fear me the most...IED's suck.


If looking civilian IEDs will be the least of your fears - highway robbers and random killings will be much more dangerous... ( shi'ite will be the safest area, but still no walk in the park )

On mainroads it'll be pretty safe, if you ( or another ) can talk you trough all the checkpoints and roadblocks..



Rapid said:


> I'm guessing there are little detours or alternative routes.


There's plenty of small roads around, but much goes trough tribal areas and are NOT suited for tourists!



Rapid said:


> Travelling along from Al Qurnah to Nasiryah seems the better route then to to Al Amarah as it has Ur and Babylon. Wouldn't this route cut throught the 'triangle of death'?


Nope, the triagle is far up north in "US territory" Nasiriyah is west of Al Qurnah ( crappy 2 lane road most of the way )













Rapid said:


> But we've decided to postpone until atleast Spring/Summer 2009 (after US general elections) because we're getting a 100% warning "DONT GO!" rate...frome everybody--people like you, organizations and the Canadian foreign ministry. This is not something we cant be stubborn about.


Smart move! 

I myself would love to visit - but certainly not until the nation have stabalized...

In it's current state Iraq offers VERY little at a HUGE risk..

If looking for excitement I recommend trekking in Africa or Nepal... it'll be a lot cheaper and you'll live to tell about it!


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

It's good to hear some comments from someone who has actually been to Iraq (Mr Denmark), instead of people like me who gather information from the media.



Rapid said:


> My friend visited family in Mogadiscou before the violence there and got a picture with AKs and the locals. Right now anything like that is too stable. Going to a stable place defeats the purpose of me going.


Really? Interesting...even _I_ would not go close to there if I was paid...he must have had some connections to the city (tribal) or some heavy security. It just got quiet there in recent weeks after some HEAVY fighting a couple months ago, and I still hear about bombings every other day from there.

While Mogadishu is no Baghdad, stability and normalcy is still far away. The city has been through some awful transitions (Islamist insurgency, Ethiopian and AU invasion) in the last two years.

Other parts of Somalia are in much better shape.


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## Tom_Green (Sep 4, 2004)

Your idea is so stupied that your goverment shouldn`t spend even one dollar for you if you get kidnapped.

It`s harsh but that`s what i think.


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

Why exactly do you want to go to iraq?


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## Rapid (May 31, 2004)

Maki-chan said:


> Why exactly do you want to go to iraq?


Simply because some other feelings are clouding my ability to think rationally. 
Firstly, and probably most obvious...I want to see what's going on. This is a passion you'll find in many travellers. Secondly, I feel that for the line of work that I'm going to pursue, travelling to a warzone will be a big plus on my resume. It would increase my credibility tenfold. Thirdly, its a good confidence building excersize.


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

^^ uh if you do go to iraq i would suggest jut goint to the kurdish north.
What are you planning to work as?


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

Rapid, are you of south american descent?


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## Rapid (May 31, 2004)

Maki-chan said:


> ^^ uh if you do go to iraq i would suggest jut goint to the kurdish north.
> What are you planning to work as?


Political/law hopefully.



tytler said:


> Rapid, are you of south american descent?


Close...i've been guessed to be from South America...I'm from South Asian descent.


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## Shukie (Mar 29, 2007)

Mr_Denmark said:


> Oh and keep in mind you can NOT rely on help from international forces - and you will not be alowed inside in any base anywhere!


I enjoyed your post, this bit particularly interested me. Can you tell me, were you given any sort of instructions as to what you should do when you run into foreigners in need of help when you were in the army?

(Not that I'm planning a trip to Iraq anytime soon, just out of curiosity )


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## cañerito (May 6, 2007)

In the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit, amen


A lot of luck


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

Rapid said:


> Close...i've been guessed to be from South America...I'm from South Asian descent.



desi biradar eh! you will survive


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

Rapid said:


> Not "want to be"...its "are". Its not actually striving to be different...its striving to be a like, but just with a different crowd. I know some college students in my college who have already gone to hostile environments. They're back sitting in the same lecture hall as me, so why not me?


then you're going there for all the wrong reasons. travelling to hostile places llike Iraq just to be an "enlightened traveller" isnt very enlightened. its actually the opposite and shows a huge amount of travelling inexperience. 

listen to Mr. Denmark - i think hes one of the few people who can actually speak with authority on this matter. what i say is just an opinion.


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## FREKI (Sep 27, 2005)

Shukie said:


> I enjoyed your post, this bit particularly interested me. Can you tell me, were you given any sort of instructions as to what you should do when you run into foreigners in need of help when you were in the army?


Yes, we were asked to treat all civilians the same... and as a general rule ( atleast for the Danish forces ) we are there to provide security and help the Iraqi Goverment at the Iraqi Goverments request... not protect some random thrill seaking tourists!

This is something especially news reporteres seems to strugle to understand - we had this pesky Rasmus Tantholdt - who'd treat our camps as free and safe hotels.. but one day the treatlevel was raised and he and his crew was denied access :lol: ( he's a jerk so he totally deserved it  )

A war-zone is NOT a playground!


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## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

Rapid said:


> Simply because some other feelings are clouding my ability to think rationally.
> Firstly, and probably most obvious...I want to see what's going on. This is a passion you'll find in many travellers. Secondly, I feel that for the line of work that I'm going to pursue, travelling to a warzone will be a big plus on my resume. It would increase my credibility tenfold. Thirdly, its a good confidence building excersize.


Youre not gonna be able to put anything on your CV when youll get yourself killed there.
This is a bit like playing russian roulette only that the price isnt that rewarding.
Have you ever been to a warzone before? If you look for excitement then why not try something else that isnt _that_ dangerous?

Point being is, that if you go there youll give your live out of your hands. Literally.
And thats a very stupid thing to do.

I also doubt that it will be "confidence building".
This is not some Hollywood movie. 
There are enough soldiers who suffer psychologically after theyve been there. Not even to mention the civilians.


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## Chicagophotoshop (Jun 13, 2007)

Rapid said:


> Hey all...
> 
> I need help from very experienced travellers, who may have travelled in hostile environments. Me and an Iraqi friend from Basra are planning a trip to Iraq, with plans of short excursion everyday through selected neighbourhoods of Baghdad (most likely will be entering by ferry to Umm Qasr then drive via secluded roads). Are there any travellers here who have visited Iraq Lebenon or Israel/Palistine since 2003 that would like to comment on their trips? I met one student who visited, but lost contact with him a few months ago.


good luck to you. take some pics


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## Shukie (Mar 29, 2007)

Mr_Denmark said:


> Yes, we were asked to treat all civilians the same... and as a general rule ( atleast for the Danish forces ) we are there to provide security and help the Iraqi Goverment at the Iraqi Goverments request... not protect some random thrill seaking tourists!
> 
> This is something especially news reporteres seems to strugle to understand - we had this pesky Rasmus Tantholdt - who'd treat our camps as free and safe hotels.. but one day the treatlevel was raised and he and his crew was denied access :lol: ( he's a jerk so he totally deserved it  )
> 
> A war-zone is NOT a playground!


That is true, I remember last year a reporter went to Afghanistan to make a documentary about the Dutch forces fighting the Taliban in the south. At one point things got so hairy the reporter had to drop his camera and pick up a weapon to fend for his life. Since then no more reporters are allowed to come with them on missions, probably for the best too.

Edit: Part of the documentary is actually on youtube:


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

^^ why is the guy speaking in english near the end? I cant even see what they are shooting at.


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## Shukie (Mar 29, 2007)

That's an American green beret, I believe.


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