# Immigrants to your city each year?



## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

isaidso said:


> Yes, this is a thread to get data about the amount of immigrants that cities take in each year. This is *NOT* a thread about net immigration. Please check the first post.


Extremely few countries have information about total inflows of international immigrants, so if you want to make international comparisons you have to use net international migration which is usually available in most countries. Besides, total inflows of immigrants are not really meaningful because they say nothing about outflows. It's not as if people just keep coming and never leave.

I have calculated the net international migration for the largest US metropolitan areas (combined statistical areas in fact). The figures come from substracting the number of immigrants at the 2006 American Community Survey by the number of immigrants at the 2000 US Census, for each metro area. There is a margin of error, because the 2006 American Community Survey doesn't have the accuracy of a census (the next US census will take place in 2010), so the values are just rough estimates.

About the New York metro area, it should be noted that there has been a huge drop of Puerto Ricans between 2000 and 2006. There are 90,000 less Puerto Ricans in 2006 than in 2000. The net international migration of the New York metro area is only +74,861 per year because of this massive departure of Puerto Ricans. If we exclude the Puerto Ricans, the net international migration from the rest of the world was in fact +89,820 per year.

For Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas and Houston these are slight overestimates because the combined statistical areas were enlarged between 2000 and 2006.

Here is the list with the US metro areas:

Net international migration (in the 2000s):
- Madrid province: +110,530/year
- Barcelona province: +80,841/year
- New York metro area: +74,861/year (+89,820/year excl. the Puerto Ricans)
- LA metro area: +70,904/year
- Toronto metro area: +57,441/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Greater Paris: +52,100/year
- Houston metro area: +49,224/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Dallas-Fort Worth metro area: +49,170/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Washington-Baltimore metro area: +48,107/year
- Atlanta metro area: +44,481/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Miami-Palm Beach metro area: +42,123/year
- Chicago metro area: +36,411/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- San Francisco Bay Area: +33,697/year
- Boston metro area: +15,832/year


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

I've added other Canadian census metropolitan areas, based on the results of the 2001 and 2006 Canadian censuses:

Net international migration (in the 2000s):
- Madrid province: +110,530/year
- Barcelona province: +80,841/year
- New York metro area: +74,861/year (+89,820/year excl. the Puerto Ricans)
- LA metro area: +70,904/year
- Toronto metro area: +57,441/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Greater Paris: +52,100/year
- Houston metro area: +49,224/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Dallas-Fort Worth metro area: +49,170/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Washington-Baltimore metro area: +48,107/year
- Atlanta metro area: +44,481/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Miami-Palm Beach metro area: +42,123/year
- Chicago metro area: +36,411/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- San Francisco Bay Area: +33,697/year
- Montréal metro area: +23,693/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Vancouver metro area: +18,543/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Boston metro area: +15,832/year
- Calgary metro area: +11,072/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

I've found information for the Randstad (the metro area in the Netherlands including Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht). The Randstad as defined here covers the provinces of North Holland, South Holland, Utrecht, and Flevoland. Between January 2001 and January 2007 the number of immigrants in these four provinces increased by 122,933 as per figures from the Dutch statistical office, so that's a net international migration of +17,562 per year.

Net international migration (in the 2000s):
- Madrid province: +110,530/year
- Barcelona province: +80,841/year
- New York metro area: +74,861/year (+89,820/year excl. the Puerto Ricans)
- LA metro area: +70,904/year
- Toronto metro area: +57,441/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Greater Paris: +52,100/year
- Houston metro area: +49,224/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Dallas-Fort Worth metro area: +49,170/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Washington-Baltimore metro area: +48,107/year
- Atlanta metro area: +44,481/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Miami-Palm Beach metro area: +42,123/year
- Chicago metro area: +36,411/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- San Francisco Bay Area: +33,697/year
- Montréal metro area: +23,693/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Vancouver metro area: +18,543/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Randstad metro area: +17,562/year
- Boston metro area: +15,832/year
- Calgary metro area: +11,072/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)


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## PedroGabriel (Feb 5, 2007)

no data for my city, but found data for legal immigrants (these account for half of the total immigration, so for real numbers, you just need to double everything, but of course it would be unreliable. 

Legal immigrants 2000-2007
*Porto Metro Region* 
(districts of Porto, Braga, Aveiro) 

2000 - 23558
2007 - 53705
*+30147*

*Lisbon Metro Region* 
(districts of Lisbon, Setubal, Leiria, and Santarém) 

2000 - 138410
2007 - 235829
*+97419*

nationwide:
2000 - 207587
2007 - 435736
*+228149*


my city is included in Porto Metro


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## 6-6-6 (Jan 14, 2008)

i would like to know the stats for buenos aires, sao paulo, bogota, caracas, and santiago and maybe rio because i cant find them anywhere.

thanks in advance.


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## Ali_B (Jun 4, 2005)

Net international migration of immigrants of Brussels Capital Region 1991
Foreigners:+3.326
1 Morocco +1.104
2 Portugal +804
3 Turkey +422
4 France +244
5 United Kingdom +214

Net international migration of immigrants of Brussels Capital Region 1996
Foreigners:+6.230
1 Morocco +1.716
2 France +861
3 Turkey +640
4 Portugal +463
5 Italy +339

Net international migration of immigrants of Brussels Capital Region 2001
Foreigners:+13.778
1 Morocco +3.619
2 Poland +1.478
3 France +1.208
4 Congo DR + 914
5 Turkey +654

Net international migration of immigrants of Brussels Capital Region 2006
Foreigners:+15.157
1 Morocco +3.049
2 Poland +2.830
3 France +2.225
4 Romania +1.747
5 Turkey +534


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## polako (Apr 7, 2005)

Brisavoine, your stats are wrong. In 2006 NYC Metro attracted a net of 224,444 immigrants. All of the stats you posted for the US metros are wrong. http://www.dhs.gov/ximgtn/statistics/data/DSLPR06cb.shtm


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

^^If you post a link, at least make an effort to read that link! If you had opened the Excel file and had a quick look at it, you would have seen that 224,444 people obtained a legal permanent resident status in the New York metro area, but 132,064 of these were adjustements of status (people already in the US) and only 92,380 were new arrivals. And that's just the inflow of people, it doesn't count outflows, so it's not net migration.


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## oceanmdx (Dec 18, 2004)

staff said:


> Does the "Golden Horseshoe" info in the original post anything to do with the thread topic whatsoever? Seems like yet another Toronto boosting thread started with the sole purpose of showing of its high immigration numbers. Too bad that both Madrid and Barcelona show much higher net migration numbers than Toronto...


The problem with your stance is that if the OP was being a bit of an ass (in your view, not mine), then to be consistent, you are being an even bigger ass with your post. hno:


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## chicagogeorge (Nov 30, 2004)

The Chicago metropolitan area has a population of 9.8 million people, and about 1.8 million are foreign born (not including illegals). So that's about 18% of the population.

Here are the legal permanent resident numbers by immigrants annually since 2000.


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## ruben.briosa (Dec 30, 2007)

Obscene said:


> I have no numbers for the city, but here is for *Sweden* as a whole..
> Pop 9 million..
> 
> 2002: 64 087
> ...


what are the 10 largest communities of immigrants in Sweden?


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## Obscene (Jul 22, 2007)

ruben.briosa said:


> what are the 10 largest communities of immigrants in Sweden?


something like this:

Finland
Former Yugoslavia (serbia, bosnia etc..)
Iraq
Turkey
Iran
Chile
Somalia
Denmark

And some other countries.. i dont know really, just an estimation


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## ruben.briosa (Dec 30, 2007)

no swedish forumer?


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## Intoxication (Jul 24, 2005)

Shit loads of East Europeans lately! Especially Polish.


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

For Hamburg I found the following data:

incoming migrants from outside Germany (note that this could also include german citizens returning from working/studying abroad) in 2004:

1st quarter: 3183
2nd quarter: 4999
3rd quarter: 7519
4th quarter: 6040

In total there have been 4660 less migrants coming in from abroad than going abroad.

However these data are 4 years old and the situation might have changed. I also think that a large part of the numbers are german students leaving Hamburg for an internship or semester/year abroad.

Regarding total net migration, Hamburg is actually growing.


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## polako (Apr 7, 2005)

brisavoine said:


> ^^If you post a link, at least make an effort to read that link! If you had opened the Excel file and had a quick look at it, you would have seen that 224,444 people obtained a legal permanent resident status in the New York metro area, but 132,064 of these were adjustements of status (people already in the US) and only 92,380 were new arrivals. And that's just the inflow of people, it doesn't count outflows, so it's not net migration.


My bad, although it is net international migration. According to the DHS website all published immigration stats are net=inflows-outflows.


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

DiggerD21 said:


> For Hamburg I found the following data:
> 
> incoming migrants from outside Germany (note that this could also include german citizens returning from working/studying abroad) in 2004:
> 
> ...


For Germany it is nearly impossible to find data. The only way to calcultate the net international migration would be to compare the number of foreign born people living in Hamburg (or another German city) between one date and another date, but it's impossible to find statistics about foreign-born people living in Germany, I don't know why. It's possible to find statistics about foreigners, but it's impossible to find statistics about foreign-born. Statistics about foreigners are useless because some people acquire German citizenship every year, so it doesn't tell you what's the actual net international migration. Only statistics about foreign-born people are usefull, but I've never been able to find them for Germany.


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

I've found data for the Australian and NZ metropolitan areas, based on the 2001 and 2006 Australian and NZ censuses. I'm adding them to the list. These figures are slight underestimates (it would be too long to explain why). Surprisingly, Auckland has more net international migration than either Sydney or Melbourne, despite being much smaller than these two metro areas.

I'm adding colors for easier reading:
Europe North America Oceania

Net international migration (in the 2000s):
- Madrid province: +110,530/year
- Barcelona province: +80,841/year
- New York metro area: +74,861/year (+89,820/year excl. the Puerto Ricans)
- LA metro area: +70,904/year
- Toronto metro area: +57,441/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Greater Paris: +52,100/year
- Houston metro area: +49,224/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Dallas-Fort Worth metro area: +49,170/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Washington-Baltimore metro area: +48,107/year
- Atlanta metro area: +44,481/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Miami-Palm Beach metro area: +42,123/year
- Chicago metro area: +36,411/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- San Francisco Bay Area: +33,697/year
- Montréal metro area: +23,693/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Auckland metro area: +22,045/year (slight underestimate due to census methods)
- Sydney metro area: +20,079/year (slight underestimate due to census methods)
- Melbourne metro area: +20,054/year (slight underestimate due to census methods)
- Vancouver metro area: +18,543/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Randstad metro area: +17,562/year
- Boston metro area: +15,832/year
- Brisbane metro area: +12,564/year (slight underestimate due to census methods)
- Calgary metro area: +11,072/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Perth metro area: +9,005/year (slight underestimate due to census methods)


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

Brisavoine: At least in case of the city states (Bremen, Hamburg, Berlin) you could come close to what you are searching for, as the city states are statistical entities on their own. Yet the discinction between german citizens returning from living abroad and genuine immigrants is not made on state or city-level.


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

I'm correcting the Canadian net international migration figures. The figures I gave previously did not take into account the non-permanent residents. These people are not legally-speaking immigrants, because they are not supposed to stay long-term in Canada, but they are nonetheless people who came from abroad, so they should be included in the net migration figures for international comparisons.

Net international migration (in the 2000s):
Europe North America Oceania

- Madrid province: +110,530/year
- Barcelona province: +80,841/year
- New York metro area: +74,861/year (+89,820/year excl. the Puerto Ricans)
- LA metro area: +70,904/year
- Toronto metro area: +61,815/year
- Greater Paris: +52,100/year
- Houston metro area: +49,224/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Dallas-Fort Worth metro area: +49,170/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Washington-Baltimore metro area: +48,107/year
- Atlanta metro area: +44,481/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Miami-Palm Beach metro area: +42,123/year
- Chicago metro area: +36,411/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- San Francisco Bay Area: +33,697/year
- Montréal metro area: +25,444/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Auckland metro area: +22,045/year (slight underestimate due to census methods
- Vancouver metro area: +20,575/year
- Sydney metro area: +20,079/year (slight underestimate due to census methods)
- Melbourne metro area: +20,054/year (slight underestimate due to census methods)
- Randstad metro area: +17,562/year
- Boston metro area: +15,832/year
- Brisbane metro area: +12,564/year (slight underestimate due to census methods)
- Calgary metro area: +12,024/year
- Perth metro area: +9,005/year (slight underestimate due to census methods)


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## THINK€R (Sep 20, 2004)

HI! 

MILAN METROPOLITAN AREA SHOULD BE A BIT LESS 4.000.000

REGULAR IMMIGRANTS IN 2007 SHOULD BE AROUND 400.000
IRREGULAR IMMIGRANTS IN 2007 SHOULD BE AROUND 90.000

THIS IS WHAT I FOUND!

HOWEVER, I LIVE IN MADRID & THE IMMIGRANTS DATAS POSTED R NOT CORRECT (IN MY OPINION). TAKE A LOOK BY URSELVES...


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## runi (Jun 29, 2007)

THINKER said:


> HOWEVER, I LIVE IN MADRID & THE IMMIGRANTS DATAS POSTED R NOT CORRECT (IN MY OPINION). TAKE A LOOK BY URSELVES...


I also lived in Madrid and the data posted by brisavoine don't surprise me at all... there were lots of immigrants everywhere, specially from Romania and South America! Maybe you got confused because he informed about the province, not only the capital city. But the data are official numbers


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## Jünyus Brütüs (Jul 9, 2007)

I dont know actual numbers but every year thousands of immigrate mainly illegal or asylum seeker.


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

I managed to find data for the Dublin metropolitan area (from the 2002 and 2006 Irish censuses) and for the Copenhagen metropolitan area (from 2000 and 2006 official estimates). These two metropolitan areas have approximately the same population, but the net international migration in Dublin is much larger than in Copenhagen.

Net international migration (in the 2000s):
Europe North America Oceania

- Madrid province: +110,530/year
- Barcelona province: +80,841/year
- New York metro area: +74,861/year (+89,820/year excl. the Puerto Ricans)
- LA metro area: +70,904/year
- Toronto metro area: +61,815/year
- Greater Paris: +52,100/year
- Houston metro area: +49,224/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Dallas-Fort Worth metro area: +49,170/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Washington-Baltimore metro area: +48,107/year
- Atlanta metro area: +44,481/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Miami-Palm Beach metro area: +42,123/year
- Chicago metro area: +36,411/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- San Francisco Bay Area: +33,697/year
- Montréal metro area: +25,444/year (slight overestimate due to metro area enlargement)
- Dublin metro area: +24,540/year
- Auckland metro area: +22,045/year (slight underestimate due to census methods)
- Vancouver metro area: +20,575/year
- Sydney metro area: +20,079/year (slight underestimate due to census methods)
- Melbourne metro area: +20,054/year (slight underestimate due to census methods)
- Randstad metro area: +17,562/year
- Boston metro area: +15,832/year
- Brisbane metro area: +12,564/year (slight underestimate due to census methods)
- Calgary metro area: +12,024/year
- Perth metro area: +9,005/year (slight underestimate due to census methods)
- Copenhagen metro area: +3,612/year


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

brisavoine said:


> Extremely few countries have information about total inflows of international immigrants, so if you want to make international comparisons you have to use net international migration which is usually available in most countries. Besides, total inflows of immigrants are not really meaningful because they say nothing about outflows. It's not as if people just keep coming and never leave.


So, you've unilaterally decided to ignore the thread question. *I'm NOT looking for migration patterns. How many different ways can I say that?* I suppose, I'll have to restart the thread again since you've hijacked this one. 

Are you always this arrogant and rude or do you not understand English? hno:

*Immigration numbers only please!* If you can't find them, one's for your country will be of interest also. No net migration figures or any other variations. If I wanted net migration figures, I would have asked for them. They are of little benefit to my research study. Unbelievable!


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

^^Calm down. You sound like a teenager.

The figures I gave are immigration numbers. They do not include inflows and outflows of nationals, they only include inflows and outflows of immigrants (persons born abroad and who were not nationals of the country they migrated to when they were born).


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## PedroGabriel (Feb 5, 2007)

THINKER said:


> HI!
> 
> MILAN METROPOLITAN AREA SHOULD BE A BIT LESS 4.000.000
> 
> ...


Spain didn't had much immigrants before this wave, or better, its immigrant population was very insignificant, and it had development and a huge construction boom. So thing's changed fast.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

brisavoine said:


> ^^Calm down. You sound like a teenager.
> 
> The figures I gave are immigration numbers. They do not include inflows and outflows of nationals, they only include inflows and outflows of immigrants (persons born abroad and who were not nationals of the country they migrated to when they were born).


Well, put yourself in my position. You spend an hour gathering the appropriate data and maps, to write the first post with the intention of gaining specific data for a research paper only to get fought tooth and nail because someone else doesn't like the thread question. 

Not only was the thread question very specific, but you proceeded to ignore that. Not only did I politely tell you that you hadn't read the post question carefully, but you still continued. Do you have any idea how frustrating this is?

I even suggested that it might be a good idea for you to start your own thread since you're interested in migration flows, but no. You insisted on turning the thread to suit your own interest. Teenager? No, quite the contrary. I've been quite polite. Ask yourself if you've done the same.

You obviously aren't interested in politeness or basic courtesy, so you can have this thread for yourself. I'll start another one. Please refrain from messing that one up too. I'm on a deadline.


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

^^1. There are no maps in the first post that your wrote, just one svg file that does not display on screen plus a few hastily thrown figures, so if it took you an hour to write that post, I'm starting to wonder if you're not just exaggerating things a little...

2. You didn't mention anywhere that you had a research paper, until this last post. You only said you were "interested to get a sense of the number of immigrants cities around the world take in each year". And in any case, if you really have a research paper, it's extremely weird to come to Skyscrapercity, of all places, to find material for a research paper. I understand better why the university professors complain about the level of their students' research in this age of Wikipedia and the internet...

3. Threads on this forum do not belong to anyone, and everybody is free to post in any thread. If you don't like the concept, feel free to open your private blog where only you will be allowed to post.


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## bayviews (Mar 3, 2006)

brisavoine said:


> Here is the list with the US metro areas:
> 
> Net international migration (in the 2000s):
> - Madrid province: +110,530/year
> ...


I'd be surprised if New York City & Los Angeles didn't have the largest annual immigration levels of any metros in the developed world. I'd expect London & Toronto would be up there too. 

Of course, Puerto Ricans are not immigrants, they've been US citizens since 1917, who freely travel back & forth, so the outflow of the PR population from NYC (mostly to smaller mainland cities & Florida not back to PR) shouldn't be factored in. 

Unlike most of the other cities listed, NYC has had near constant inflow of immigrants (aside from the 1930s & WW II) so looking at net increase in total immigrant population hardly captures the total numbers of immigrants. That's because large numbers of earlier immigrants are always moving out or dying. 

Much if not most of the immigration to LA is illegal & not picked in the census & that's largely the case with Chicago & many other US metros also. 

I realize that Madried & Barcelona, which had almost no immigrants a few decades ago, have attracted a lot of new immigrants, but would find it very hard to beleive as many as NYC or LA, let alone more!


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

bayviews said:


> Unlike most of the other cities listed, NYC has had near constant inflow of immigrants (aside from the 1930s & WW II) so looking at net increase in total immigrant population hardly captures the total numbers of immigrants. That's because large numbers of earlier immigrants are always moving out or dying.


New York is not a special here. It's the same with German, French and English cities which have had immigrants for a long time already, and where outflows and deaths of immigrants are numerous.


bayviews said:


> Much if not most of the immigration to LA is illegal & not picked in the census & that's largely the case with Chicago & many other US metros also.


This is speculation. A census is not a count of the legal population only, it is a count of the entire population (legal + illegal), and its results are anonymous so illegal immigrants have no reason to hide from census agents. Besides, in every country the census authorities redress their figures to take into account the illegal people who are not accurately counted, and they do so in the US too, particularly in the Community Surveys that I used to compute the figures.

It's in countries with a system of official registration and no censuses, such as in Belgium and Germany, that the number of immigrants could be underestimated (although I suppose authorities there also redress their gross figures from the official registers). But in countries with census systems like the US, Canada, France, the UK, there's no reason to speculate about a massive undercount of immigrants.


bayviews said:


> I realize that Madried & Barcelona, which had almost no immigrants a few decades ago, have attracted a lot of new immigrants, but would find it very hard to beleive as many as NYC or LA, let alone more!


Hard to believe, but nonetheless true. And you put your finger on the right explanation in the beginning of your post: US cities have a long tradition of immigration, so their outflows of immigrants + deaths of old immigrants are numerous, whereas in Spain immigration is very recent, there are virtually no deaths of old immigrants and little outflows yet.


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## diegodbs (Mar 12, 2008)

^^^^


> whereas in Spain immigration is very recent



Year and number of immigrants. Ministry of Labour.

1998
637.085


1999
748.954


2000
923.879


2001
1.370.657


2002
1.977.944


2003
2.664.168


2004
3.034.326


2005
3.730.610


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## bayviews (Mar 3, 2006)

Yeah, that confirms that large-scale immigration into Spain is a very positive, although recent, trend spiking over the last decade. 

I doubt there were many immigrants coming in during the Franco era! 

In the US, immigration has been a continous flow since the beginning, although its nearly quadruppled since the 1965 immigration reform. 

Here's a sampling of the total US immigrant population numbers: 

1880
6,680,100

1920
13,921,000

1960
9,738,000

2000
31,108,100

2005
35,689,100

Here are the largest immigrant inflows in 2006 by metropolitan area: 

New York City
224,444

Los Angeles
120,880

Miami
98,922

Washington 
54,556

Chicago
49,755

San Francisco Bay Area
38,350


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

bayviews said:


> Here are the largest immigrant inflows in 2006 by metropolitan area:


The figures you quoted are not immigrant inflows, they are the number of people who obtained legal permanent resident status in the largest US metro area, including adjustements of status (i.e. people already in the US). For the New York metro area, 224,444 people obtained a legal permanent resident status in 2006, but 132,064 of these were adjustements of status (people already in the US).


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## bayviews (Mar 3, 2006)

brisavoine said:


> The figures you quoted are not immigrant inflows, they are the number of people who obtained legal permanent resident status in the largest US metro area, including adjustements of status (i.e. people already in the US). For the New York metro area, 224,444 people obtained a legal permanent resident status in 2006, but 132,064 of these were adjustements of status (people already in the US).


Officially those figures are called immigrant "admissions". Are you saying that the 132,064 "adjustments" were included in earlier "admissions" totals for metro NYC?


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

^^Re-read the source from where you took the figures. Polako made the same mistake on the previous page.


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## Tubeman (Sep 12, 2002)

I really don't think anyone can even begin to guess London's annual immigration as any EU citizen can pitch up unannounced and unmonitored and start working here.


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## Kwame (Nov 18, 2005)

brisavoine said:


> *This is speculation. A census is not a count of the legal population only, it is a count of the entire population (legal + illegal), and its results are anonymous so illegal immigrants have no reason to hide from census agents. Besides, in every country the census authorities redress their figures to take into account the illegal people who are not accurately counted, and they do so in the US too, particularly in the Community Surveys that I used to compute the figures.*


if you're thinking that that's how things get counted in LA, then... :lol:


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## bayviews (Mar 3, 2006)

brisavoine said:


> ^^Re-read the source from where you took the figures. Polako made the same mistake on the previous page.


I guess the answer is no, those "adjusted" were not counted as admitted immigrants earlier, so there seems to be no double counting. If that's the case, the numbers I've posted reflect the overall immigration inflow for NYC & other US metros.


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## Booyashako (Sep 11, 2002)

60,000 a year seems kinda low for Toronto. 

A more recent figure...
"At July 1, 2007, the Toronto CMA’s population reached 5,509,874 individuals, an increase of 85,919 over the year before. Despite a net deficit of 28,352 inhabitants from intraprovincial and interprovincial exchanges, Toronto nonetheless experienced a 15.7 per thousand population increase, mainly due to a much larger number of immigrants (93,009) than emigrants (8,964)."
http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/91-214-XIE/2007000/part1.htm

That would be *84,315* for Toronto CMA (smaller definition than GTA and Golden Horseshoe) for 2007.


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

Tubeman said:


> I really don't think anyone can even begin to guess London's annual immigration as any EU citizen can pitch up unannounced and unmonitored and start working here.


We'll have to wait until the 2011 UK census, since the Office for National Statistics does not provide estimates of the foreign-born population between censuses.

About immigrants, they need to stay at least 6 months in the host country to be considered immigrants. People staying less than 6 months are not immigrants and are not counted by statistical offices.


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

Booyashako said:


> 60,000 a year seems kinda low for Toronto.
> 
> A more recent figure...
> "At July 1, 2007, the Toronto CMA’s population reached 5,509,874 individuals, an increase of 85,919 over the year before. Despite a net deficit of 28,352 inhabitants from intraprovincial and interprovincial exchanges, Toronto nonetheless experienced a 15.7 per thousand population increase, mainly due to a much larger number of immigrants (93,009) than emigrants (8,964)."
> ...


Interesting finding, but there are two things to consider here. First, this 84,315 figure also includes inflows and outflows of Canadians with the rest of the world (i.e. Canadians leaving Canada and Canadians returning from abroad). Of course, these flows should be rather small I suppose, so the 84,315 figure must be pretty close to the actual net migration of international immigrants. Second thing to consider: this figure is just for one year, from mid-2006 to mid-2007. The figure I gave for Toronto (+61,815/year) was an average over 5 years (2001-2006). An average over several years is better than a single year. A single year can be an outlier.


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## Tubeman (Sep 12, 2002)

brisavoine said:


> About immigrants, they need to stay at least 6 months in the host country to be considered immigrants. People staying less than 6 months are not immigrants and are not counted by statistical offices.


Would that include students, out of interest? Tens of thousands of foreign students arrive here each year and typically will stay 3 years to complete a degree... although a significant proportion of student visas are abused with the 'students' enrolling in dodgy colleges and then disapearing into the workforce.


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## NorthStar77 (Oct 8, 2003)

International net immigration to Oslo-area each year:
2003: 1,671
2004: 2,981
2005: 4,858
2006: 6,832
2007: 11,097
Average: 5,488


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

Tubeman said:


> Would that include students, out of interest?


That includes foreign students, yes. Any person born abroad that is not the child of expatriates and who come to the host country for whatever reason, who is legal or illegal, and who stays more than 6 months, is an immigrant.


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