# chinese car thread



## matherto

raymond_tung88 said:


> the red flag reminds me of Lincoln's Town Car...


that's because it IS the Lincoln Town Car

similarly the BYD F3 IS the Toyota Corolla etc, Chinese car makers are doing this all the time


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## Jiangwho

matherto said:


> that's because it IS the Lincoln Town Car
> 
> similarly the BYD F3 IS the Toyota Corolla etc, Chinese car makers are doing this all the time


do you think your car makers can produce a new brand car with only two wheels and one door?? you knew these are cars so they must have something similar as just you are human being and somebody else. but you cannot say that you are copied from somebody or somebody is copied from you.


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## zergcerebrates

comrade7 said:


> I thought the same, $10-$15k for a new 1.6/2.0 car!! for this price one can buy a lousy daewoo matiz or seicento  I wonder why they don't export these cars to Europe. Maybe because there's hardly any service for them here, all parts would have to be imported from china... Or high duties imposed by EU?


Chinese car companies are still testing foreign waters to see if they're being accpeted and see how well it does. If all goes well you'll see a massive attack from the Chinese, and sooner or later duties will be imposed on Chinese cars, just like they're doing with most Chinese products.


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## Sen

if west came up with the idea of free trade they should stick with it lol^


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## Cloudship

What is the latest of Chery coming to the US? Is that still on?


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## oliver999

2007,chery will land on USA, and built up a lot of server centers in USA.


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## SGoico

Got the impression I've seen many of these chinese cars with different badges on USA, European and Japanese roads...


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## oliver999

SGoico said:


> Got the impression I've seen many of these chinese cars with different badges on USA, European and Japanese roads...


really?  i only heard that chinese cars exported to russia\middle east 
and south asia.


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## Sen

SGoico said:


> Got the impression I've seen many of these chinese cars with different badges on USA, European and Japanese roads...


i dont know which ones you are talking about..but some chinese cars are exact copies of their foreign counterparts, with same design, same specification, they are not allowed to wear their original badges because well..their makers wont allow them, in some cases only the technology and assembly line is transferred, but the foreign car maker wont give its chinese partner the right to use its badge, afraid it will damage its reputation. :bash:


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## SGoico

Sen said:


> exact copies of their foreign counterparts


Precisely what I meant slightly salted with irony


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## Sen

well they are essentially the same cars with different badges, like Opel and Vauxhall, Chevrolet and Pontiac etc.


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## khoojyh

haha.... some Chinese cars design are copy from others car`s design... although not 100% but is 60-90%.....


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## oliver999

khoojyh said:


> haha.... some Chinese cars design are copy from others car`s design... although not 100% but is 60-90%.....


chinese car industry is very young , give them some time to start up, ok? :cheers:


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## SGoico

Sen said:


> well they are essentially the same cars with different badges, like Opel and Vauxhall, Chevrolet and Pontiac etc.


NO! 

zunchi 2.0 AT, has nothing to do with Lancia
zhonghua junjie, has nothing to do with BMW, Toyota or Mazda
chery tiggo, has nothing to do with Honda

or those BYD cars with very similar badge to BMW's and some BYD models with similar design to Beemer models have nothing to do with BMW. 

They are (cheap) copies!


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## Sen

SGoico said:


> NO!
> 
> zunchi 2.0 AT, has nothing to do with Lancia
> zhonghua junjie, has nothing to do with BMW, Toyota or Mazda
> chery tiggo, has nothing to do with Honda
> 
> or those BYD cars with very similar badge to BMW's and some BYD models with similar design to Beemer models have nothing to do with BMW.
> 
> They are (cheap) copies!


and zunchi looks nothing like Lanci, Junjie looks nothing like BMW, Toyota, Mazda, and Chery Tiggo looks nothing like Honda.


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## z0rg

zergcerebrates said:


> China has too many small car manufacturers. They need to clump together with the big ones so they can compete.


Indeed! IMO, In China this is a common problem in most sectors: Electronics, Steel, Airlines, Banks, whatever. Too many medium-sized corps and too few biggies, sometimes none. Telecommunications and Oil are notable exceptions though.

Look at this ranking of the main automobile producers worldwide. 2003, a little old, sorry.

1. General Motors (Opel and Vauxhall) 8.112.000
2. Ford (Jaguar and Volvo) 6.526.000
3. Toyota 6.241.000
4. Volkswagen Group 5.024.000
5. Daimler Chrysler (Evobus) 4.238.000
6. PSA (Peugeot-Citroën) 3.310.000
7. Nissan 2.942.000
8. Honda 2.923.000
9. Hyundai - Kia 2.697.000
10. Renault-Dacia-Samsung 2.386.000
11. Fiat Iveco 2.386.000
12. Suzuki - Maruti 1.811.000
13. Mitsubishi 1.582.000
14. Mazda 1.153.000
15. BMW 1.119.000
16. Daihatsu 897.000
17. Avtovaz 700.000
18. FAW 556.000 < CHINA
19. Subaru 545.000
20. GM ? Daewoo 521.000
21. Isuzu 492.000
22. Dongfen (without Citroën) 368.000 < CHINA
23. Tata 289.000
24. Beijing AIG (without Hyundai and Isuzu) 262.000 < CHINA
25. SAIC (without GM y VW) 223.000 < CHINA
26. Gaz 201.000
27. Harbin Hafei Automotive 200.000 < CHINA
28. Ssangyong 159.000 < CHINA (49%)
29. Volvo?Renault?Mack 154.000
30. MG Rover 134.000 < CHINA (100%)
31. Jinbei Auto Holding 124.000 < CHINA
32. Changhe Aircraft Industrie 118.000 < CHINA
33. SAIC Cherry Auto 101.000 < CHINA
34. Nanjing Auto 99.000 < CHINA
35. Mahindra & Mahindra 95.000
36. Ijmach Avto 94.000
37. Paccar- DAF 94.000
38. Anhui Jianghuai Auto 94.000 < CHINA
39. Soueast Auto Industrial 87.000
40. Hino 83.000
41. Porsche 81.000
42. UAZ 77.000
43. Navistar  66.000
44. Kamaz 64.000
45. Jiangling Motors Group 63.000 < CHINA
46. MAB-Erf-Norman 61.000
47. Scania 51.000
48. Nissan Diesel 39.000
49. Roslada 28.000
50. Hindustan 16.000
51. Others (China, India, Russia, Turkey) 1.240.000

11 of the 50 main auto makers are Chinese, but none of them ranks in the top 15. Some of them should merge to become really big I think...


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## Cloudship

Most auto manufacturers are looking to break into the Chinease market, but due to various rules it is not that easy for them to do so. In some cases tehy form a partnership with Chenease companies, in others they simply give various levels of manufacturing rights. There are also a few cases (I believe it was mitsubishi who was famous for this) they would "sell" the machinery and designs for old discontinued models to foreign companies. Proton was famous for this for a while.


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## huaxia-zhonghua

in all these joint ventures,the highest share that a foreigner company can hold is 50%,they introduce the car models of their own into china.the joint ventures need to pay money for using these models and then they also take part of the profit of the JV.but more and more JVs start to design their own cars and I belive that finally they can be totally owned by local companies.


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## oliver999

the cars i post on this tread are totally chinese design, and independant factory without foreign capital.


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## SGoico

^^ Read, Sen.


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## zergcerebrates

Cloudship said:


> What is the latest of Chery coming to the US? Is that still on?



You can go to Visionary Vehicles website to find out the details, but from what I read there will be 4 totally new models designed for the US market and will be arriving early 2008 not 2007, its delayed. Along with Chery 2 other car companies also has plans coming to US, and they're Brilliance Auto, and Geely and they are expected to arrive end of 2007 earlier than Chery. Brilliance and Geely will focus on the low end segment while Chery will focus on the mid level segment.


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## prelude

wonderful cars....but many have Mercidies/BMW touch in them one have almost copied mercidies...however every rising automobile industry copies and there is nothing wrong with it I think ......But tell me one thing ...how are these cars doing aborad ? the prices are very less ...this means they must have a good market abroad provided their quality is good


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## zergcerebrates

oliver999 said:


> the cars i post on this tread are totally chinese design, and independant factory without foreign capital.


You're wrong. The Brilliance Junjie was designed by Pininfarina an Italian design house.


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## oliver999

zergcerebrates said:


> You're wrong. The Brilliance Junjie was designed by Pininfarina an Italian design house.


i know that fact. i mean, the chinese company have the copyright (自主知识产权）of that design, the italy design it, that's right, which company in the world only rely on demstic sinentists?　they paid for italy company money, but have the copyright.
in joint venters, chinese capital dont have the copyright of the design of the shape .


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## oliver999

prelude said:


> wonderful cars....but many have Mercidies/BMW touch in them one have almost copied mercidies...however every rising automobile industry copies and there is nothing wrong with it I think ......But tell me one thing ...how are these cars doing aborad ? the prices are very less ...this means they must have a good market abroad provided their quality is good


sold a car not like sold a coat. they have find a US or EU company which is willing to help sell those chinese cars. and they have to bulit a great many service shops, that costs a lot of money. so it's difficult chinese cars break into developed markets. 
but i believe, after 2-3 years, some chinese cars will enter into forien markets.


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## zergcerebrates

Any more up to date information on the Chery cars that will come to US? Their website gives out limited information. I wonder how the interior looks like of the new Chery designed for the US market


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## Sen

prelude said:


> wonderful cars....but many have Mercidies/BMW touch in them one have almost copied mercidies...however every rising automobile industry copies and there is nothing wrong with it I think ......But tell me one thing ...how are these cars doing aborad ? the prices are very less ...this means they must have a good market abroad provided their quality is good


Chery QQ is selling very well in Pakistan, Egypt and some other middle eastern countries, recently it has also opened a dealership in Singapore.


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## Elbrus

Chinese car makers entered the Russian market in 2005. Mostly Cherry and Great Wall.
The sales are good and growing due to certain price-dumping. But from what I read in the russian autoforums and reviews the quality of those cars is aweful. Like with many other chinese products the main bonus is ceap price. Also, there are copyright issues.
Much of the design and technologies are simply copied or stolen by the chinese, so if they enter western markets they are going to get their asses sued a lot.
But in markts like Russia, MidEast, LatinAmerica, etc. where copiright law is not very strict they are gonna have a very bright future.


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## prelude

Elbrus said:


> Chinese car makers entered the Russian market in 2005. Mostly Cherry and Great Wall.
> The sales are good and growing due to certain price-dumping. But from what I read in the russian autoforums and reviews the quality of those cars is aweful. Like with many other chinese products the main bonus is ceap price. Also, there are copyright issues.
> Much of the design and technologies are simply copied or stolen by the chinese, so if they enter western markets they are going to get their asses sued a lot.
> But in markts like Russia, MidEast, LatinAmerica, etc. where copiright law is not very strict they are gonna have a very bright future.


Few questions about the Russian situation 
Really I havent seen many Chinese cars in European Part of Russia(well I have seen some Golden Dragon buses in St petersburg) .....are you talking about Russian far east /south ?

And what do you mean by "aweful" quality ...is it awefully good or awefully bad?And good and bad compared to what ....2nd hand western models? 1st hand cheap Korean/Jap models? 1st hand older lada models or 1st hand modern Lada/Gaz models 

Are these Chinese cars in Russia Cheaper than second-hand western cars?
or first hand cheap korean cars ?

You say Chinese cars are doing well in Russian market do you think they can be a major rival to western + Japanese dominated foreign car market in Russia .


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## Cliff

oliver999 said:


> chery QQ
> 1.0L\0.8L1.2L, price: from 3500usd~6000usd.


this car is being sold at slightly more than USD 20000 [SGD 35000] here in Singapore(the cheapest car avaliable here), I didn't know it was only worth that much!


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## Sen

^^
cars in Singapore are expensive because of the import tax, same applies to Malaysia.


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## oliver999

Cliff said:


> this car is being sold at slightly more than USD 20000 [SGD 35000] here in Singapore(the cheapest car avaliable here), I didn't know it was only worth that much!


my god, 20000 usd worth a nice 2.0L cars in china.
the hottest car "elantra"solds only 12000 usd in china.


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## drunkenmunkey888

they look nice and all but i cant help feeling like Chinese cars are just knockoffs of current japanese and american designs... one of the chery's look too much like a ford focus and the red flag looks identical to town car. i guess they need to start somewhere... same was with korean cars when they first came to US


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## prelude

one question 
what the approx ratio/percentage between Number of foreign car and Chinese car in China

With the price tags and the models I doubt wether any Western car can survive competetion with Chinese cars in China .......I hope to see such Cheap yet fashionable Chinese cars in India as soon as possible


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## prelude

Just one thing ....Try to accept that the models are good...generalising them as copies Western Design is something that I hate.....Western car makers even copy each other ....
To me some the cars are really wonderful ...however I dont like Cherry


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## Elbrus

prelude said:


> Few questions about the Russian situation
> Really I havent seen many Chinese cars in European Part of Russia(well I have seen some Golden Dragon buses in St petersburg) .....are you talking about Russian far east /south ?
> 
> And what do you mean by "aweful" quality ...is it awefully good or awefully bad?And good and bad compared to what ....2nd hand western models? 1st hand cheap Korean/Jap models? 1st hand older lada models or 1st hand modern Lada/Gaz models
> 
> Are these Chinese cars in Russia Cheaper than second-hand western cars?
> or first hand cheap korean cars ?
> 
> You say Chinese cars are doing well in Russian market do you think they can be a major rival to western + Japanese dominated foreign car market in Russia .


Aweful- as in really bad.
Mind you I'm only repeating what I've read on russian auto forums and auto reviews, I don't have any personal knowlege on this matter, in fact I've never even seen a chinese car. 
Anyway, what I hear is these cars have very bad assembly quality compared to any other car sold in Russia, even GAZ and Lada. But those Cherries are cheap and look nice as well - so many ( stupid ) people are buying them.
I don't mean to offend anybody, but I wouln't buy one. Buying a car is not like getting a new kettle or a DVDplayer, it's a big investment and you've gotta think ahead.


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## oliver999

Elbrus said:


> Aweful- as in really bad.
> Mind you I'm only repeating what I've read on russian auto forums and auto reviews, I don't have any personal knowlege on this matter, in fact I've never even seen a chinese car.
> Anyway, what I hear is these cars have very bad assembly quality compared to any other car sold in Russia, even GAZ and Lada. But those Cherries are cheap and look nice as well - so many ( stupid ) people are buying them.
> I don't mean to offend anybody, but I wouln't buy one. Buying a car is not like getting a new kettle or a DVDplayer, it's a big investment and you've gotta think ahead.


i dont think so. chinese car's quality is ok in china.


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## Sen

Elbrus said:


> Aweful- as in really bad.
> Mind you I'm only repeating what I've read on russian auto forums and auto reviews, I don't have any personal knowlege on this matter, in fact I've never even seen a chinese car.
> Anyway, what I hear is these cars have very bad assembly quality compared to any other car sold in Russia, even GAZ and Lada. But those Cherries are cheap and look nice as well - so many ( stupid ) people are buying them.
> I don't mean to offend anybody, but I wouln't buy one. Buying a car is not like getting a new kettle or a DVDplayer, it's a big investment and you've gotta think ahead.


are you kidding me? Lada is shit.


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## Cee_em_bee

Seems like most of these cars are brought off from other car makers, It's not an unordinary thing though.









This car was being badged as a toyota 10 years ago.


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## oliver999

Cee_em_bee said:


> Seems like most of these cars are brought off from other car makers, It's not an unordinary thing though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This car was being badged as a toyota 10 years ago.


what the fuckin you said aussie? **** off.


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## prelude

Sen said:


> are you kidding me? Lada is shit.


Common Lada is not Shit ....lada is a very comfortable Cheap and reliable car .......had they not been so they wont have accounted to 50% of the cars being sold in Russia in a situation when Russian car market faces one of the most fierce competition from cars all over the world.........there are korean and jap cars that have prices almost equal to Ladas 

Perhaps you are talking about the old models of Lada that were once common in China ....yes those old ones looks shitty ...that's coz the Soviets considered cars to be modes of transport ...and not fashion ....but when it comes to reliablity and comfort(at cheap price)...ladas were very good ones....

Today Ladas have developed new models that have cool looks Cheap prices as well as the reliablity of Lada ....its true lada has partly lost its monopoly due to market economy ...but lada is a very reliable car 

My new lada Calina has many features better than many of the western couterparts of the same segment...at the same time its lot lot cheaper than its western counterparts ...moreover its mainly an original design not a copy


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## Elbrus

Sen said:


> are you kidding me? Lada is shit.


Not quite.
I agree, Lada models are not as advanced as Jap or Euro cars. Technologicaly they are perhaps 10-15 years behind.
But they cost only US$4,000-8,000, and provide very good value for money.
Also Ladas are quite reliable and well-assembled.
New models like Kalina and Priora look a little dated, but they are very well-made.
And the good thing is - these new models cost only $7-8K!!!
Also KAMAZ ( more famous for its trucks ) produces the cheapest car in the world - 1.0L model called OKA. It costs just $2,400!! 

Sorry for off-top, back to chinese cars.
I have no doubt that in 5-10 years Chinese car-makers will become major players internationaly. Now they are just testing overseas markets.
I'm very impressed with the their progress.
Go China!


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## gaoanyu

I think, Chinese cars can do better than Korean and later Japanese cars in terms of selling them in the western markets, domestic needs from China itself are huge, which would in turn help them to pile huge influx of money to operate abroad as well as faster quality-improving speed (We have already seen cases of Chinese firms buying off west firms after a relatively short peorid of development in China. e.g. Lenovo gets IBM PC div., and Nanjing auto gets MG Rover etc.). 
In fact, Chinese auto industry has just taken shape in recent few years, and competitions vs. foreign makers within China are already fierce. So I am sure Chinese cars will become major players internationally in 5-10 years.
Sth off topic, I like the ladas, especially the white cute ones (not sure about is model name, only saw them when I was young). People told me that ladas, although look small, but have enormous horsepower!


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## shadyunltd

Chinese firms buying off failing west firms, you should say. There was nothing good out of IBM PC division, nor MG Rover.


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## Sexas

I don't see any issue the Chinese playing copycat, need to know when US start with 10000000000 difference auto brand and later they all become GM and Ford. And today we still see car copy each other... remember when Korean still new in the US? they look ugly and cheap...


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## vlaakko

prelude said:


> Perhaps you are talking about the old models of Lada that were once common in China


What is the russian car market situation today in China? Are they still selling Lada and Volga? Year ago when i was in Shanghai i remember seeing few Kamaz trucks, but that was all.


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## matherto

VVVV said:


> do you think your car makers can produce a new brand car with only two wheels and one door?? you knew these are cars so they must have something similar as just you are human being and somebody else. but you cannot say that you are copied from somebody or somebody is copied from you.


what the heck are you talking about?

these cars, are identical to their original counterparts, but they have different badges, this is how Chinese car makers started, either copying the cars, or just rebadging the cars.

But now, they're improving day by day, its quite astounding the improvements theyve made with each new car they bring out


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## tiger

matherto said:


> this is how Chinese car makers started, either copying the cars, or just rebadging the cars.


Not all Chinese carmakers are like you you said.You've got to know Chery is even not one of the five largest carmakers in China.


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## oliver999

*benteng, from the first automobile industrial*

benteng
size:4705/1782/1465mm
2.3AT , price: about 22000USD.
[N·m/r/min] 204/4000 
[Kw/rpm] 120/6500


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## pflo777

btw is there a special program by the chinese government to develop and distriubte a car for the low income class?This would be a good means to boost economy in the underdeveloped areas?


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## oliver999

pflo777 said:


> btw is there a special program by the chinese government to develop and distriubte a car for the low income class?This would be a good means to boost economy in the underdeveloped areas?


yes, chinese goverment has such policy. including lower tax for smaller cars.but the goverment puch this policy is not for more family can offord a car, but reduct petro consumer.


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## trentthomson

oliver999 said:


> what the fuckin you said aussie? **** off.


Huh?

But anyway, cee_em_bee is right. It's the old 4Runner.



















They're nearly identical. Even the wheels look the same.


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## hmmwv

pflo777 said:


> btw is there a special program by the chinese government to develop and distriubte a car for the low income class?This would be a good means to boost economy in the underdeveloped areas?


I don't think that's a good idea, China is way too crowded so public transportation is the way to go. Cheap cars for lower income families will dramatically increase the number of cars on the road, creat more green house gas emission and parking problems in the cities.


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## oliver999

trentthomson said:


> Huh?
> 
> But anyway, cee_em_bee is right. It's the old 4Runner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're nearly identical. Even the wheels look the same.


SUV looks all this shape,no surprise.


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## FREKI

One thing is to be inspired by great design, another thing is to rip it off completely like the Chinese motor industri does... 


It reminds me of the "Russian" Space Shuttle :lol:









It's really a shame, becase the Chinese are great at designing a lot of stuff - why not try to make unique cars?


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## duskdawn

Mr_Denmark said:


> It's really a shame, becase the Chinese are great at designing a lot of stuff - why not try to make unique cars?


There's a common sense in Chinese, imitation leads to innovation.
If you couldn't even imitate well, forget about innovation.
So we are in no worries. We just started out in auto industry.


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## Sen

Guys i said this AGAIN and AGAIN some cars look exactly the same because they ARE the same cars, they have the license from foreign carmakers to produce these cars, why do they carry Chinese badges then? because some of them have shitty quality (or used), so their foreign partners wont allow them to carry their badges fearing they would damage their reputation. but they still want to make money so they gave the blueprint and assemly line to chinese but not the right to use their brand, the only example of shameless copying is this: 
Shuanghuan Auto(a copy of CR-V)








(no one buys this anyways).

the other copies you see are all done under mutual agreements. so stop accusing already.


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## oliver999

Mr_Denmark said:


> One thing is to be inspired by great design, another thing is to rip it off completely like the Chinese motor industri does...
> 
> 
> It reminds me of the "Russian" Space Shuttle :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's really a shame, becase the Chinese are great at designing a lot of stuff - why not try to make unique cars?


dont worry, after this stage, we will full of unique cars. :cheers:


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## shadyunltd

oliver999 said:


> SUV looks all this shape,no surprise.


Huh? Do you know what you are talking about, dude?


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## oliver999

shadyunltd said:


> Huh? Do you know what you are talking about, dude?


why toyoto not asks for compensation, and claim greatwall cant produce this shape of cars? it's legal, dude.


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## oriental_horizon

thanx to all that really exhibit some really cool Chinese manufacturered cars.

I see there have been alot of interesting discussion going on. But I like to contribute that Chinese car manufacturers will get better in terms of reliability, features, design, environmental quality...etc. Right now, many foreign auto companies are joint venturing with Chinese counterparts because it is mandated by China's foreign policy and industrial policy. This will create local jobs, foreign companies can make money with less than 50% ownership. Good thing is, technology transfer will spillover to the Chinese auto industries. This mean the local companies will gain expertisie in design and manufacturing with the quality similar to Japanese manufacturers.

China will become the biggest motor market in the world, hence one day the local Chinese auto manufacturers will dominate this market and foreign companies will have a small share depending on how the government wants competition to be level playing field or give more time to domestic auto producers to become stronger.

One has to remember, Japan and South Korea did not become global auto manufacturing powerhouses overnight. Japan spent years just rolling out cars that were just ready to drive to now leading the world in terms of design, fuel efficiency, manufacturing process. example - toyota.

South Korea had to start from scratch and do alot of copying, now with the help of foreign ownership like GM Daewoo and Daimler Chrylster shareholdings in Hyundai, they have really cornered the low end segment of the car market.


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## Amit

pflo777 said:


> btw is there a special program by the chinese government to develop and distriubte a car for the low income class?This would be a good means to boost economy in the underdeveloped areas?


I donot intend to divert from the thread topic, nevertheless it is relevant to this question. 

India's biggest automobile company Tata Motors will roll out a *$2,200 * car in 2008. It will target the lower middle class, that is so often neglected by western companies. I bet this car will be a huge hit in India and can be exported to other countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America as well. The comforts of technology should be accessible to the masses, and not just the elite and the middle class.


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## oliver999

Amit said:


> I donot intend to divert from the thread topic, nevertheless it is relevant to this question.
> 
> India's biggest automobile company Tata Motors will roll out a *$2,200 * car in 2008. It will target the lower middle class, that is so often neglected by western companies. I bet this car will be a huge hit in India and can be exported to other countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America as well. The comforts of technology should be accessible to the masses, and not just the elite and the middle class.


2200USD A CAR! awesome, that's a motorcycle price. every family can offord it. do you have any pics of this india car?


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## Amit

oliver999 said:


> 2200USD A CAR! awesome, that's a motorcycle price. every family can offord it. do you have any pics of this india car?


The design of this car is held strictly confidential by Tata Motors, hence no pictures are available. 

When the project was announced a few years back, other compact car makers in India, Suzuki and Hyundai, said it was not possible to build a car so cheap. The cheapest car available in India is $4,500, and this proposed car is $2,200, half that price. But the Tata group chairman, Ratan Tata, is determined to prove that it is technologically possible to build this car and to realize a project that is truly pioneering in the automobile industry worldwide. Tata Motors has already spend quite a bit on R&D for this project; they have already selected a site in eastern India for manufacturing facility of this car to go onstream by 2008.

The track record of Tata Motors as an innovative company lends confidence that they can pull off this project. In 1999, they launched Tata Indica with an investment of $500 million in R&D, the first car completly designed and developed by an Indian automobile company.


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## WolfHound

Nice when do these cars come tom America?


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## Amit

WolfHound said:


> Nice when do these cars come tom America?


In case you are refering to the $2,200 Tata (India) car, I am not sure. People in US seem to fancy big SUVs, mid size cars. The compact car may not be in great demand there. This car will have a market in cost conscious markets of Asia, Africa, Latin America and probably environmentally conscious market of Europe as well.


----------



## WolfHound

Amit said:


> In case you are refering to the $2,200 Tata (India) car, I am not sure. People in US seem to fancy big SUVs, mid size cars. The compact car may not be in great demand there. This car will have a market in cost conscious markets of Asia, Africa, Latin America and probably environmentally conscious market of Europe as well.


I meant the chinese cars. Are they good on gas and are they better then american cars?


----------



## oliver999

WolfHound said:


> I meant the chinese cars. Are they good on gas and are they better then american cars?


chinese cars are as solid as chinese color TVs. chinese cars have a disadvantage of design and enginee. have a advantage of good equipment: good CD player, good inner decoration, etc. but the largest advantage is the price. lol
but when i heard india will produce 2200 usd cars, i got shocked.


----------



## Promiscuous Boy

oliver999 said:


>





oliver999 said:


> the cars i post on this tread are totally chinese design, and independant factory without foreign capital.


Are you kidding me?????????????????????????


----------



## Sen

it's a JV between BJC and Damiler Chrysler.

FFS read my post. (In this case, it even carries the Jeep badge).


----------



## Promiscuous Boy

if it's a joint venture then oliver here should not post ridiculous information saying there's no foreign capital in the models he has shown so far...


----------



## WolfHound

oliver999 said:


> chinese cars are as solid as chinese color TVs. chinese cars have a disadvantage of design and enginee. have a advantage of good equipment: good CD player, good inner decoration, etc. but the largest advantage is the price. lol
> but when i heard india will produce 2200 usd cars, i got shocked.


Im sure the indian car will suck. The design will be horrible and the quality is probably going to be terrible. But for 2200 USD they will sell a lot. But I wouldn't get one. Its a shame American car companies don't deisgn goodlooking cars for a good price.


----------



## Amit

WolfHound said:


> Im sure the indian car will suck. The design will be horrible and the quality is probably going to be terrible. But for 2200 USD they will sell a lot. But I wouldn't get one. Its a shame American car companies don't deisgn goodlooking cars for a good price.


The $2,200 Tata car will be a no-frills car aimed at the lower middle class. It will probably have a modest engine and design. Neverthless, it is challenging to make a structurally sound car for such a low price. Considering that a motorcycle sells for $1,000 in India, many people who cannot afford expensive cars are likely to upgrade to this one. The idea is to extend the benefits of technology to a wider group of people and still make money.

Currently, Tata Motors sells a compact car (Indica) for base price of $7,500, mid-size car (Indigo) for $9,500 and SUV (Safari) for $16,500. Another auto maker Mahindra & Mahindra sells SUV (Scorpio) for $15,500. All these vehicles have been designed and developed in India with substantial R&D investments.


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## Cancun

I will buy China shoes but I will NOT buy China cars.They sell every cheap products in Cancun so people buy their products but no other merit.


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## googleabcd

Sorry, but where is Cancun, a country or a city?

And you shouldn't buy computer, laptop, mouse/keyboard, speakers, LCD, TV, cellphone as well because most of them are also made in China, at least most parts inside them are made in China.



Cancun said:


> I will buy China shoes but I will NOT buy China cars.They sell every cheap products in Cancun so people buy their products but no other merit.


----------



## Promiscuous Boy

googleabcd said:


> Sorry, but *where is Cancun, a country or a city?*
> 
> And you shouldn't buy computer, laptop, mouse/keyboard, speakers, LCD, TV, cellphone as well because most of them are also made in China, at least most parts inside them are made in China.



Dude, are you retarded?? you can only be kidding me...


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## googleabcd

Junjie is the best Chinese car so far I have seen.
and is called "Chinese small BMW" in China mainland.
Actually, IMO, the exterior of junjie can be competed with the original BMW model.

Current model carries with a 1.6 Mitsubishi engine, but later on it will be replaced with a 1.8T engine which is indepentdly designed by Chinese car manufacturer.



























With the price $12,000USD, what do you expect more?




oliver999 said:


> junjie(another zhonghua brand)
> 1.6L\1.8L\2.0L, price:from 10000usd~15000usd
> 长/宽/高(mm) 4648/1800/1450 发动机型式 4G63S4M
> 变速器型式 四档自动 排量(毫升) 1997
> 最大功率(KW) 95/6000 最大扭矩(N.m) 173/4500
> 油耗(L/100km) ≤8.5(90km/h) 轴距(mm) 2790


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## duskdawn

googleabcd said:


> Sorry, but where is Cancun, a country or a city?


I just googled it is in Mexico I believe.
So Cancun, there's nothing wrong with Chinese cheap goods, as long as they are of good quality they will still be popular right? And you will start to regret that there will be no more cheap Chinese products in the coming future, which is already happening.


----------



## googleabcd

Promiscuous Boy said:


> Dude, are you retarded?? you can only be kidding me...


After google it, eventually I found out Cancun is a small city in Mexico

A small city with only 380 thousand population, why must I know it?


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## duskdawn

Promiscuous Boy said:


> Dude, are you retarded?? you can only be kidding me...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp4iI59BfpQ


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## Hidden Dragon

Promiscuous Boy said:


> ^^Last time I went to Cancun there were a lot of chinese people...


I know Cancun very well. I may have a chance to go there. You can look at China's tropical island, Hainan, by following the link below:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=296611


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## LDN_EUROPE

ROVER is a Chinese car brand made in the UK.


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## Hidden Dragon

Checker said:


> ^^ I think this is actually the Koenigssee in Bavaria


Are you sure?
All photos are linked from trekearth.com
*Changhai (or Long Lake in English), Jiuzhaigou, Sichuan, China*

















*Königssee, Bavaria, Germany*


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## zergcerebrates

Checker said:


> ^^ I think this is actually the Koenigssee in Bavaria


Go google "Jiuzhaigou" and you'll see the scenery is like that.

ahh..what the hell, heres the link:

http://images.google.com/images?q=Jiuzhaigou&hl=en


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## slider

They look good from the outside. Little bit like Korean cars before. Basically good looking but some details are not so good or thought than in european cars especially the steering wheel and drivers environment.

Chinese cars don't have own identity yet so they are doing some copying.

Have i seen this car somewhere before...








... oh yes, Ford Mondeo

And this looks familiar too...








...Head lights are so BMW


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## oliver999

i am not poor at biology, but sorry guys, i never heard of cancun before. we have a hundred of million-polulation- city which is never known by the world, why the hell we have to know such a small city cancun?


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## googleabcd

China's automobile industry still needs sometime to make improvement..But I never worry about it.
Just look at the products with "made in China" tags,
nowadays already transfering from toys, clothing into IT/electrionic products. Sooner or later Chinese cars will occupy the middle/low end auto market.
And yes, China needs these kinds of middle/low end industries because there are hundreds of millions people make a living on them.


slider said:


> They look good from the outside. Little bit like Korean cars before. Basically good looking but some details are not so good or thought than in european cars especially the steering wheel and drivers environment.
> 
> Chinese cars don't have own identity yet so they are doing some copying.
> 
> Have i seen this car somewhere before...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... oh yes, Ford Mondeo
> 
> And this looks familiar too...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...Head lights are so BMW


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## Sen

how the **** does that look like bmw?


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## FREKI

Sen said:


> how the **** does that look like bmw?


Sure looks like a BMW 5 ripoff with a few parts "borrowed" from Toyota Crown perhaps...



























Hmmmm......... :cheers:


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## gaoanyu

Mr_Denmark said:


> Sure looks like a BMW 5 ripoff with a few parts "borrowed" from Toyota Crown perhaps...
> 
> Hmmmm......... :cheers:


If you do that, then most cars are ripoffs of something with a few parts "borrowed" from something else. Get a grip, be fair.


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## Sen

Honestly I dont see how Junjie resembles BMW 5, apart from the grill, but then there are other cars who use that kind of grill.like rover, lancia...


















BMW looks agressive, Junjie is sporty but has more family car element.

not to mention the rear parts are totally different...


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## General Huo

Nice car and nice skyscraper in Shanghai


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## cyberjaya

*China's Brilliance Auto to ship 158,000 cars to Europe over next 5 years*

BEIJING (XFN-ASIA) - Brilliance China Automotive Holdings plans to ship 158,000 cars to Europe over the next five years, the company said in a statement on its website. 

Brilliance has sealed a contract for the delivery of the autos with HSO Motors Europe, a German auto importer, the statement said. 

Chinese cars have so far been exported mainly to markets in Southeast Asia, the Middle East, Africa and South America.


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## z0rg

[/QUOTE]


:lol:
I don't know if the car is Chinese, btw


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## duskdawn

^^ Oh man!!! I don't care now.


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## oliver999

z0rg said:


>



:lol:
I don't know if the car is Chinese, btw[/QUOTE]

haha, he is a nauty boy. but she dont care, i am jealous.


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## Sen

The car is Ford Mondeo.


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## Yörch1

Wow! It's amazing how cheap you can buy nice cars in China! A brand new car for only 3,500 USD!!!

In Mexico the cheapest car in the market is a Hyundai Athos for 11,000 USD.


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## Sen

^^
3500 USD you will get the crappiest of the crappiest cars in China.


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## Yörch1

oliver999 said:


> chery QQ
> 1.0L\0.8L1.2L, price: from 3500usd~6000usd.


^^ I was referring specially to this one. Here for 11,000USD you get a crappy Hyundai Athos...


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## willo




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## Tri-ring

OMG it's a death trap ! !
From the looks of it, the manufacturers had no intention of creating a safety zone within the compartment. hno: 
Even with an offset collision, the A-pillar shouldn't bend like that.


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## snowmancn

China have raised the test standard similar to the European a few months ago. That is not difficult for those factories to meet the European standard for car body, the main problem for the Chinese auto company is that many engines could not meet the European emission standard .


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## snowmancn

Last year, Geely try to enter the US market but its engine fail the emission test.


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## KB

The independent crash test body, the European New Car Assessment Program, will make footage available to car buyers around the world from May 8 but the Australian NCAP website is not yet ready to do the same, despite a recent overhaul.

Euro NCAP crashes dozens of new cars each year and rates each one for occupant, child and pedestrian safety. The Australian division of NCAP (funded by motoring authorities in each state and territory) tests fewer than half a dozen cars each year and scores each model according to the same criteria. This allows Australian cars to be compared with imported models. Currently, NCAP websites release information and photos of the tests but not video footage.

‘‘Euro NCAP exists to serve consumers with the latest car safety information so they can make an informed purchasing decision,’’ says Adrian Hobbs, Euro NCAP’s secretary-general. ‘‘It is logical we should offer that information in the most up-to-date way possible.

‘‘Consumers will be able to view video clips showing crash tests. This will add a new dimension to car safety information.’’ :banana:


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## Tri-ring

snowmancn said:


> China have raised the test standard similar to the European a few months ago. That is not difficult for those factories to meet the European standard for car body, the main problem for the Chinese auto company is that many engines could not meet the European emission standard .


I think you are being overly optimistic since redirecting impact energy without harming the passengers is a difficult task .
The design of drive shaft and steering shaft, selection in material and components at crash sensitive positions and so on.
All these factors has nothing to do with the manufacturing process.


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## snowmancn

*中国汽车出口欧洲*



Sen said:


> Chinese cars are not sold in Europe, why would they be tested by EURONCAP?


中国汽车出口欧洲
来源： 中国汽车报 作者：朱志宇

据中国机电产品进出口商会统计，今年1至10月，我国汽车出口的国家和地区有
185个，按出口金额统计，排在前5位的国家为俄罗斯、伊朗、比利时、叙利亚和阿
尔及利亚，其中对俄罗斯出口增速最快，比去年同期增长2.9倍。按洲别统计，亚洲
市场仍是我国整车最大的出口市场，前10月我国整车出口120185 辆，出口金额11.04亿
美元。整车出口增长幅度最快的是欧洲市场，与去年同期相比增长206.67%。主要是
向以俄罗斯为主的东欧国家和以比利时为主的欧盟国家出口大幅增加。 
目前，中国汽车出口欧洲的贸易仍处于起步阶段，但欧洲市场对中国本土汽车
企业来说仍然具有很大吸引力。
· 2005年5月，首批200辆江铃陆风越野车销往欧洲市场，首开中国汽车销往欧
洲的先河。
· 2005年6月，吉奥签订出口欧洲161辆SUV合同，填补了国内自主品牌汽车出
口欧洲的空白，成为国内首款出口欧洲的自主品牌汽车。
· 2006年9月，长城汽车500辆哈弗CUV首次出口意大利，打响了中国汽车批量
出口欧盟的“第一枪”。
· 2006年9月21日，华晨汽车与欧洲HSO汽车贸易公司签订了3000辆中华轿车出
口欧洲的合同。根据协议，HSO汽车贸易公司担任中华轿车在欧洲部分国家的总代理，
今年12月把3000辆中华轿车引入欧洲。这标志著国内自主品牌轿
车首次进入欧洲市场。11月27日，华晨又与HSO汽车贸易公司一次签署为期5年、共
15.8万辆中华轿车的出口协议。根据此合同，首批3000辆中华尊驰轿车在今年12月
从大连发往德国不来梅，由HSO汽车贸易公司代理在德国销售。明年，华晨将出口1.5万
辆中华轿车，开始在德国以外的欧洲国家销售。 
朱志宇 整理

Since everyone come here for fun, I use an on line translator for the above message:

China auto export Europe to originate: Chinese automobile newspaper author: Zhu Zhiyu According to the Chinese mechanical and electrical product import and export chamber of commerce statistics, this year 1 to October, our country auto export country and the area has 185, according to the exportation amount statistics, arranges at the first 5 countries for Russia, Iran, Belgium, Syria and Algeria, is quickest to the Russian exportation speed-up, grew 2.9 times compared to same time last year. According to the continent other statistics, the Asian market still was the our country entire vehicle biggest exports the market, the first in October our country entire vehicle exports 120,185, exportation amount 1.104 billion US dollars. What the entire vehicle exportation growth scope is quickest is the European market, compared with same time last year grows 206.67%. Mainly is to by the Russian primarily Eastern Europe country and by the Belgian primarily European Union country export large increase. 
At present, China auto export European the trade still to be at the start stage, but the European market to the Chinese native place automobile enterprise said still had the very strong attraction. 

□in May, 2005, the first batch 200 rivers bell land breeze all-terrain vehicle sells to the European market, the opening remarks China automobile sells to European the beginning of a matter. 

□in June, 2005, lucky Austria signs exports the European 161 SUV contract, filled domestic independent brand auto export European the blank, became domestic first section to export European the independent brand automobile. 

□in September, 2006, Great Wall automobile 500 Kazak not CUV for the first time exports Italy, fired the Chinese automobile batch to export European Union "the first gun". 

□on September 21, 2006, the Chinese early morning automobile and the European HSO automobile trading company signed 3,000 Chinese passenger vehicle to export European the contract. According to the agreement, the HSO automobile trading company holds the post of the Chinese passenger vehicle in the European partial countries general agent, this December introduces 3,000 Chinese passenger vehicle Europe. This symbol domestic independent brand passenger vehicle is entering the European market for the first time. 

On November 27, Hua Chenyou and a HSO automobile trading company signature for time 5 year, altogether 158,000 Chinese passenger vehicle exportation agreement. The root according to the above the contract, first batch 3,000 China reveres spreads the passenger vehicle in this December to send out Germany from Dalian 不来梅, sells by the HSO automobile trading company proxy in Germany. Next year, Hua Chenjiang will export 15,000 Chinese passenger vehicle, will start outside Germany's European country sale. Zhu Zhiyu reorganizes


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## snowmancn

Great Wall automobile exports to Italy, anyone from Italy bought this car? If not, the pretty girl will be unhappy.


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## snowmancn

I used a bad on line translator.
The main point of the above massage is: 
four Chinese auto companies have already exported vehicles to Europe since 2005 .The No1 exporter is 华晨 , it has signed a contract to export 0.15 million
passenger vehicles to Germany from 2006 to 2010. Three thousands have been shipped out last years, and fifteen thousands going to be shipped within this year.


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## snowmancn

engine of Zhonghua


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## snowmancn

华晨汽车 Zhonghua car


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## snowmancn




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## snowmancn

0.15 million of this cars going to ship to Germany from 2006 to 2010.


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## snowmancn

Zhonghua
junjie(another zhonghua brand)
1.6L\1.8L\2.0L, price:from 10000usd~15000usd
长/宽/高(mm) 4648/1800/1450 发动机型式 4G63S4M
变速器型式 四档自动 排量(毫升) 1997
最大功率(KW) 95/6000 最大扭矩(N.m) 173/4500
油耗(L/100km) ≤8.5(90km/h) 轴距(mm) 2790


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## snowmancn

Anyone from Germany? What is the asking price over there?


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## Karakuri

snowmancn said:


> China have raised the test standard similar to the European a few months ago. That is not difficult for those factories to meet the European standard for car body, the main problem for the Chinese auto company is that many engines could not meet the European emission standard .


Is it a joke? Just have a look at the pictures above!


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## oliver999

hehe, western car manufature is so afraid of chinese cars compition, but they cant stop the steps of chinese cars advancing. chery car has occupied the 1st position on chinese car markets last month, haha, great news. japanese cars is most unsafty on my opinion. japanese cars=rubbish cars


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## pflo777

if they sell those cars in china they`ll definately have to stop one-child-policy, otherwise there`ll be no chinese people in 20 years from now.....


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## gladisimo

oliver999 said:


> japanese cars is most unsafty on my opinion. japanese cars=rubbish cars


:?

To be honest, if those two cars are representative of what we can expect from Chinese cars, they're still quite a long ways from catching their Japanese, European, and American counterparts. 

Also, depending on how much that Zhonghua car is supposed to cost, the interior is quite terrible, even korean interiors (which I consider to be pretty bad) are better. 

In time, when the Chinese car market matures, I will buy one, but for now, no way...


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## Tri-ring

oliver999 said:


> japanese cars is most unsafty on my opinion. japanese cars=rubbish cars


Yeah right, most all Japanese cars rates 4 stars or higher in Euro-ncap tests.
I wonder how did those cars above rate.


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## gladisimo

I'm still reluctant to pass judgment on Chinese cars with regards to quality. 

If the Chinese wants to succeed in Europe and America, they surely can't just expect to compete by offering cars of low prices. More than anything, especially in America, reliability is a major concern. 

I remember when the Koreans launched their cars in America, they attained a reputation of copying other people's cars, and have poor reliability (MAJOR issue) and quality over all. That bad start has lingered until today, and this is something the Japanese did very well over the years, which contributes to their success in the states.


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## snow is red

China Automotive targets U.S. automakers, exports
Kevin Krolicki, Reuters
Published: Friday, May 18, 2007
By Kevin Krolicki

DETROIT (Reuters) - China Automotive Systems Inc. is opening a Detroit-area office to sell steering systems to U.S. automakers as it looks to expand beyond China's own rapidly growing car companies, a member of the company's board said on Friday.

China Automotive already supplies steering components to two Chinese automakers that are considering exporting to the Unite States and believes the Chinese-built vehicles it supplies could soon be on American roads.


View Larger Image
General Motors Corp. world headquarters is seen in downtown Detroit, Michigan July 1, 2005. China Automotive Systems Inc. is opening a Detroit-area office to sell steering systems to U.S. automakers as it looks to expand beyond China's own rapidly growing car companies, a member of the company's board said on Friday. REUTERS/Rebecca Cook

Email to a friend

Printer friendly
Font: ****"I'm sure that will happen within the next few years," Robert Tung, a Washington, D.C.-based independent director for CAS told Reuters.

The Nasdaq-listed company, whose sales grew 51 percent in 2006, expects its sales to continue to exceed the growth of the overall vehicle market in China, Tung said.

Passenger car sales in China could grow 20 percent a year over the next five years, he said.

Wuhan-based China Automotive, the top independent supplier of steering system supplier in China by volume, supplies about 80 percent of the steering components used by Brilliance China Automotive Holdings Ltd.

Brilliance has begun to export sedans to the European market and is working on a similar plan for the United States, executives have said.

China Automotive is also a major supplier to fast-growing Chery Automobile Co. and stands to benefit as that company firms up its own expansion plans, Tung said.

Chery, which takes about 70 percent of its steering components from China Automotive, has concluded a preliminary agreement with Chrysler Group to build Chrysler-branded small cars for export to the United States and other markets.

But final approval of the deal has been delayed by DaimlerChrysler AG's decision to spin off Detroit- based Chrysler to private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management.

"At this point, we will have to wait for the new ownership," Tung said.

On Thursday, China Automotive announced its first deal to supply an established global automaker.

China Automotive said it signed a one-year contract to supply steering systems for Volkswagen Jetta and Audi vehicles in China through two joint-ventures, FAW Volkswagen and Shanghai Volkswagen.

FAW Volkswagen, a joint venture between FAW Group Corp. and Volkswagen AG , ranks as China's top-selling automaker, ahead of General Motors Corp.

By clinching the supply deal with VW, China Automotive is showing it can engineer and build components to world-class standards, Tung said.

"It's a great recognition," he added.

As the company expands to target U.S. automakers, part of its pitch will be China Automotive's ability to allow them to shorten product development cycles and cut costs based on its experience in China's market, Tung said


http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/...=6615d8d5-bfbc-411a-b994-7b60d5f60cb0&k=44090


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## auckland16

they loke fine but who know maybe they just loke good but they realey are bad quality ..... becose like every one know that they selling junk in europe and usa . so how you can trust ther products .I didn't mean eny thing bad I just sed my opinion.


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## snow is red

auckland16 said:


> they loke fine but who know maybe they just loke good but they realey are bad quality ..... becose like every one know that they selling junk in europe and usa . so how you can trust ther products .I didn't mean eny thing bad I just sed my opinion.


Well only time can tell.We shall wait and see. Remember 60s with Japan and 80s with Korea ??


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## snow is red

China's Emerging Car Industry

Mainland car manufacturing has soared in the 10 years since the government announced expansion goals 
Asia

Less than 10 years ago, China's annual car production did not match the output of a single large auto company in a developed country, but recent years have seen quite a transformation. Domestic companies like Geely, Chery and Changfeng have learned quickly, expanding production capacity and developing new models. 

Yet China is home to almost as many automakers as the United States, Japan and Europe combined. Like so many industries here, the fat needs trimming. 

It seems clear which companies will lead the way. Chery Automobile, based in Wuhu, Anhui province, now exports cars to 29 countries. Last year the company produced 305,000 cars and exported 50,000. Chery cars are expected to hit the European market later this year. 

Geely Autos is another company looking to export to Europe as soon as this year. The firm was the first from China to appear at the Frankfurt Motor Show (in September 2005) and is now re-engineering its cars to comply with EU auto import regulations. Brilliance Auto, which is collaborating with BMW, also made an impressive display at the Geneva Auto Show earlier this year. Its BS6 model is already being sold in Germany. 

Foreign challenge 

The domestic players also have competition from abroad as foreign automakers are starting to export cars from China through their joint ventures. Volkswagen plans to export its China-made vehicles to 84 countries by 2009 and Honda is already exporting to Europe from China. 

The government has made it an official goal to compete as a global auto player, even enshrining it in the 11th Five-Year Plan. A quality-control licensing system is in its initial stages, though details are scarce as of yet. 

Eight auto export manufacturing bases have been established to help automakers expand globally. They include Shanghai, where both GM and VW have joint ventures; the northeastern city of Changchun, headquarters for major automaker FAW; Chongqing (Chang'an Auto); Wuhan (Dong Feng Group); Xiamen (Golden Dragon); Wuhu, (Chery); Taizhou (Geely); and Tianjin, where Toyota has a joint venture with FAW. 

It isn't just exports that have a promising future. Last year China overtook Japan as the world's number two market for automobiles, with total vehicle sales rising 25% in 2005 to 7.2 million. The number of cars in Shanghai reached the previous 2020 estimate by the beginning of 2005. Beijing had over 22,000 new car registrations in the first 18 days of 2007, total hit almost 2.9 million. All of these vehicles are clogging the roads and polluting the air, and yet only a tiny fraction of the population is on the road. 

Same old game 

Copyright infringement has become as endemic in the auto industry as it is throughout China's export economy. There have been multiple suits brought by American and European automakers against Chinese companies - often their own joint-venture partners. 

In addition, the hand of the state is ever-present. The US is considering a suit against China at the WTO for, among other things, subsidizing its auto parts industry. 

Regardless of whether the US claims are justified, China has become a major global auto parts supplier and this trade will continue to grow. Of the world's top 100 auto parts suppliers, 70% have a presence in China. There are about 1,200 foreign-funded or jointly-invested parts manufacturers in China holding 50% the market. Among them are brands such as Delphi, Bosch, Visteon and Wanxiang, China's largest maker of auto parts. There are about 5,000 domestic spare parts manufacturers. 

Factor in the positive prospects of other auto-related industries - repair, road transportation, insurance, finance and rental - and it becomes clear why the expectations, and the stakes, for this industry have soared so high. 
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/apr2007/gb20070412_189990.htm


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## oliver999

auckland16 said:


> they loke fine but who know maybe they just loke good but they realey are bad quality ..... becose like every one know that they selling junk in europe and usa . so how you can trust ther products .I didn't mean eny thing bad I just sed my opinion.


if chinese exported junk in europe and usa, how do you think there are so huge demand for chinese commordity?


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## auckland16

but it's realey you can come to europe shop's and you will seen on product write made in china and it's allways cheapest and how much time i buy some thing made in china it's allways brake very fast .


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## Sen

well hopefully you learned your lesson, next time dont buy it.


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## auckland16

if it will be wrote made in Hong kong then it's diffrent


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## snow is red

Then you are strongly advised to stop buying anything "Made In China" (which I doubt you can't)  .With 1 or 2 people stop buying Chinese products, I dont think China's huge trade surplus will stop anytime soon.


----------



## maldini

gladisimo said:


> I'm still reluctant to pass judgment on Chinese cars with regards to quality.
> 
> If the Chinese wants to succeed in Europe and America, they surely can't just expect to compete by offering cars of low prices. More than anything, especially in America, reliability is a major concern.
> 
> I remember when the Koreans launched their cars in America, they attained a reputation of copying other people's cars, and have poor reliability (MAJOR issue) and quality over all. That bad start has lingered until today, and this is something the Japanese did very well over the years, which contributes to their success in the states.


But you forgot that when Japanese cars were first exported to America, they also lacked quality and the cars started to rust within a year. The main selling point was their fuel economy.


----------



## snow is red

Everything started off bad. They need time for improvements, Chinese automakers now are very eager to learn from German, american carmakers. You cannot compare those walmart junks to cars, I dont think chinese automakers can mess around when it comes to cars, those stuff sell in walmart is only few cents or few dollars. But Chinese automakers dont want their business to go bankrupt, so i believe they will not mess around with cars. Give them a chance. 

Just think about Korean cars in the 90s, when they first came to america, how they were humiliated, same for the japanese cars in the 60s and 70s. We just have to wait and see, who knows the chinese may even surprise us like the Japanese and the Korean.


----------



## snow is red

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/24/chrysle...rnet-confirmed/


Chrysler and Chery resume discussions; Hornet confirmed

Posted May 24th 2007 6:52AM by Chris Tutor

Filed under: Economy, Plants/Manufacturing, Chrysler, Chery



Chery officials say the pause in their discussion with Chrysler was so the Chinese company could get a better idea of the American's future. Now that Cerberus has taken over, Chery sees the coming years filled with puppy dogs and lollipops. 

And in their giddiness, someone at Chery leaked a few details of the project to Automotive News. Chery will build two cars for Chrysler, to be sold under the Chrysler brand. Chery is already building one of the two in China (possibly the A1?), but for Chrysler it will be shipped in kit form to South America where it will be assembled for that market. 

The other Chery-built car will, in fact, be the Hornet, according to AN's anonymous sources. The car will be based on Dodge's show car, but engineering will be handled by Chery in China. Hornet production could begin as soon as 2010.

It's good to see these two playing nice again, even better to hear the Hornet may actually reach production.


----------



## snow is red

China’s Chery say deal with Chrysler not halted
Automaker denies report it has halted work to build cars for U.S. company

SHANGHAI/TOKYO - China’s Chery Automobile Co. said on Wednesday a framework deal with DaimlerChrysler AG to build Chrysler-branded cars was still proceeding, denying a German paper report it had been halted.

Chery, which reached an initial agreement with Chrysler last year, wants to re-examine the deal, Handelsblatt said this week, citing a senior Chery executive.

The decision, the paper said, came after DaimlerChrysler agreed last week to sell its money-losing Chrysler Group to private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management LP in a $7.41 billion deal.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18784199/


----------



## snowmancn

I think this is a win win deal with Chrysler and Chery. Today's Chery is completely different from the Chery in ten years ago. A new factory with the state of the art machinenary from Germany with a half million annually output capacity is completed. It has a state of the art printing line which dips the whole car body in the print pool so the print will cover every part of the car body such can prevent the car from rusting. Now only two of this state of the art printing line in the world, the other one is in Germany. In Chery's R&D center,more than two hundreds foreign engineers work there. In one factory, the manager of the QC department is a Japanese who worked for the QC department of Toyota for more than twenty years. Now with the rise gas price, more people will buy smaller cars which Chery focus on.Chrysler can use its distribution and service network to sell the lower price cars from Chery with higher profit margin. Chrysler will make a profit.So buy Chrysler's stocks.


----------



## snow is red

Do you have the links or articles for these claims snowmancn, please share  

Thank you 

Hope all the best for Chery. Chery is very eager to learn from Germany, and i hope they will absorb the german techniques as soon as possible and start doing their own work and be as successful as German carmakers


----------



## Northern Lotus

I hope someone will post some pictures of the first Chery car ready to export to N. America partners with Chrysler.


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## auckland16

If they use cheap worker force then , ofcorse ther cars will be poor quality .


----------



## snowmancn

02tonyl said:


> Do you have the links or articles for these claims snowmancn, please share
> 
> Thank you Hope all the best for Chery. Chery is very eager to learn from Germany, and i hope they will absorb the german techniques as soon as possible and start doing their own work and be as successful as German carmakers


It seems you want to be a car dealer for Chrysler:lol: 
These claims are out of my memory, and my memory are out of the information I read from some news reports a few years ago. :nuts: Here, I find a news report in Chinese, I hope you can use a better online translator. http://auto.sohu.com/20070417/n249482971.shtml

Regarding the state-of -the -art printing line this report said:
"尽管仍然只能算是个新企业，但奇瑞在管理和技术装备上都向高水平看齐。2002年5月，
奇瑞成为中国首例侧面碰撞试验的成功者；9月，奇瑞成为中国首家通过ISO/TS16949国
际标准的整车制造企业；10月，经过近一年精心准备的ERP项目正式上线。奇瑞拥有
据说是世界最先进的5条涂装线之一，投资 7亿元人民币从德国最著名的专业厂家杜
尔(DURR)公司引进。据说与此相同的生产线全世界仅有5条，3条分布在欧洲：其中
大众两条，宝马1条；两条分布在亚洲：上海大众1条，第二条便落户在奇瑞。" The above message said: In 2002, Chery spent almost $100millian for the printing line from a German company: DURR. At that time DURR sold five of its state-of -the -art printing line: one to BMW, two to VW, one to VW-SH, and one to Chery.You can see how the new printing line operates in Chery web.
Regarding the foreign engineers works for Chery. The report said:
'第二，奇瑞雇用了20多名外国技术人员和管理人员(包括德国人、日本人和韩国人)。
奇瑞整装厂的一条生产线名叫寺田真二生产线(东方之子的整装线)，此线的总长是
原三菱的一位日本管理者，现在已经成为奇瑞的一员，被请来帮助奇瑞改进现场管
理。" From the message, the Japanese QC manager 寺田真二 were from Mitsubishi Auto not Toyota, Chery named one of his production line by his name to honor his good work. I tell you a secret that the most successful car dealer for Chery's oversea market is a dealer in Egypt. I have some ad from the dealer:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYn2Q4OGWYg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3FctkjNt70

What do you think of the dealer's marketing ?


----------



## Sen

I think one South Korean engineer just got arrested because they were going to ship technology from KIA to Chery, it says they were spying for a Chinese automaker based in Anhui province, well that pretty much is Chery. It is well known fact Chery hired a lot of foreign engineers and some of their work is outsourced too.


----------



## tiger

02tonyl said:


> You can see Chana "Yu feng" from this site.
> 
> http://archive.cardesignnews.com/autoshows/2005/shanghai/highlights/index.php


^^Okay,I found it.It's a SUV.


----------



## snow is red

Nice. Thanks. Damn i am really puzzled about China's car industry , there are so many other good automakers in China, like Chana, lifan... with very good design, but it is only chery, brilliance are heard on the media, these brands have some seriously "not so good" designs.


----------



## Sen

pflo777 said:


> is there a number available, how may cars each of the biggest 10 chinese car makers produces in one year and how much they grow?


I can only find sales numbers for 2006

Top 10 Ranking for Sales, 2006

Brand Sales
1. Shanghai GM 36.54 (Tens of thousands)
2. FAW-Volkswagen 34.12
3. Shanghai Volkswagen 34.06
4. Chery Auto 27.24
5. Beijing Hyundai 26.18
6. Guangzhou Honda 22.43
7. FAW-Toyota 21.04
8. Geely 20.43
9. Shenlong(Dongfeng-PSA) 20.13
10. Dongfeng Nissan 19.89

As you can see it's still a long way to go for Chinese automakers, all top 10 produce their cars in China, but only Chery and Geely use their own brands.2007 ranking is expected to see Chery overtaking Shanghai VW though. Chery was already no.1 in sales for March 2007. (but it's just one month).

http://www.ycwb.com/ycwb/2007-01/19/content_1357983.htm


----------



## pflo777

thanks a lot for the numbers 
although I cant believe it.


China overtook Germany in 2006 or will do so in 2007.
That means tha altogether more than 6,5 mio cars have to be produced in China...when I sum up your numbers, I hardly get 2 mio......


----------



## Sen

double post.


----------



## Sen

pflo777 said:


> thanks a lot for the numbers
> although I cant believe it.
> 
> 
> China overtook Germany in 2006 or will do so in 2007.
> That means tha altogether more than 6,5 mio cars have to be produced in China...when I sum up your numbers, I hardly get 2 mio......


I think China produced 7.8 million cars in 2006, but I think SUVs and light trucks might also be counted in this figure, andas I explained previously in this thread there are literally thousands of car manufacturers in this country.So it's not a surprise at all the top 10 only account for approx 2 million.

EDIT: According to the report, 2006 total sales is 7.2 million, non commercial vehicles about 5.2 million, commercial vehicles about 2 million, sedans about 3.8 million,


----------



## tiger

Sen said:


> Top 10 Ranking for Sales, 2006
> 
> Brand Sales
> 1. Shanghai GM 36.54 (Tens of thousands)
> 2. FAW-Volkswagen 34.12
> 3. Shanghai Volkswagen 34.06
> 4. Chery Auto 27.24
> 5. Beijing Hyundai 26.18
> 6. Guangzhou Honda 22.43
> 7. FAW-Toyota 21.04
> 8. Geely 20.43
> 9. Shenlong(Dongfeng-PSA) 20.13
> 10. Dongfeng Nissan 19.89
> 
> 
> Chery was already no.1 in sales for March 2007. (but it's just one month).


For April 2007

1.Shanghai GM
2.Shanghai VW
3.FAW VW
4.Chery auto
5.Dongfeng Nissan
6.Guangzhou Honda
7.Chana Ford
8.FAW Toyota
9.Dongfeng PSA
10.FAW Xiali

Geely and Hyundai are no longer in the top 10 in April,replaced by Ford and FAW Xiali.


----------



## snow is red

What are those like Shanghai GM, Shanghai VW, Dongfend Nissan, guangzhou honda ?? Are they Joint ventures ?? 

What do you think about joint venture, will the Chinese side gain much from it ??


----------



## tiger

02tonyl said:


> What are those like Shanghai GM, Shanghai VW, Dongfend Nissan, guangzhou honda ?? Are they Joint ventures ??


Shanghai GM is a joint venture company of SAIC and GM,Shanghai VW of SAIC and VW,Dongfeng Nissan of Dongfeng Auto group and Nissan,and Guangzhou Honda of Guangzhou Auto group and Honda.Yes,except Chery Auto and FAW Xiali all of them are joint ventures while FAW Xiali is based on Japanese technology.Yeah,that's the reality of Chinese car market which is occupied by foreign companies.Chinese branded cars still have a long way to go.Attention:that list is only for the car market,not for the whole auto market.



> What do you think about joint venture, will the Chinese side gain much from it ??


It depends on the Chinese side's competitiveness and on the foreign side's initiatives.If the Chinese side is very bad at the car design like Dongfeng Auto group and Guangzhou Auto group,the foreign side dominates the management and the joint venture company.If the Chinese side alone does well in car designs,it's a cooperative relationship like Chana-Ford and SAIC-GM.Foreign side's initiatives are also very important.German,Japanese and Korean companies are generally conservatives,they want to dominate the joint venture companies regardless of the ability of Chinese side.


----------



## pflo777

well, if there would be no law that forces those companies to make cooperations with chinese firms they would not do them.
Just like Mercedes-Benz, they also built a factory in the US in Alabama, build their cars there and sell them in the US. They even sell those US cars back to Europe.

Are there any indications, that western firms will be allowed to make their 100% own car factories in China in the future?


----------



## Sen

tiger said:


> For April 2007
> 
> 1.Shanghai GM
> 2.Shanghai VW
> 3.FAW VW
> 4.Chery auto
> 5.Dongfeng Nissan
> 6.Guangzhou Honda
> 7.Chana Ford
> 8.FAW Toyota
> 9.Dongfeng PSA
> 10.FAW Xiali
> 
> Geely and Hyundai are no longer in the top 10 in April,replaced by Ford and FAW Xiali.


Monthly sales can fluctuate a lot, I would wait for the annual sales figure to see the long term trend. However it is true that Beijing Hyundai is losing competitiveness due to absence of new models and is not likely to be in the top 10 this year.


----------



## Sen

02tonyl said:


> What are those like Shanghai GM, Shanghai VW, Dongfend Nissan, guangzhou honda ?? Are they Joint ventures ??
> 
> What do you think about joint venture, will the Chinese side gain much from it ??


1. Yes
2. No


----------



## Huhu

> *China makes a move into high-value exports*
> By Keith Bradsher
> Published: June 6, 2007
> The New York Times
> 
> JINZHOU, China: Zhao Qingjie's favorite book, he says, is a Chinese translation of the autobiography of Lee Iacocca, the celebrated American carmaking executive.
> 
> Zhao, who runs one of China's largest manufacturers of automotive starters and alternators, has long been interested in the United States. That should make his counterparts in the auto parts industry elsewhere very nervous.
> 
> "Entering the U.S. market is one of our key strategies," said Zhao, whose company, Wonder Auto Technology, has obtained a Wall Street stock listing and is preparing to start exporting.
> 
> China's auto parts exports have increased more than sixfold in the past five years, nearly topping $1 billion in April and emerging as one of the fastest-growing categories of Chinese industrial products sold overseas. More than half of these auto parts go to the United States; most of the rest go to Europe and Japan.
> 
> The rise of Chinese auto parts exports is part of a much broader shift. China is moving up from producing basic goods like textiles, toys and shoes and toward making higher-value industrial goods. The production of the higher-value goods pays better wages, but these goods also compete more directly with products from countries like Mexico and even from advanced industrialized countries like the United States.
> 
> While China has room for considerable further growth in auto parts exports to the United States, it is not competitive overseas in bulky products - like car seats - that are uneconomical to ship, nor can it export parts that need to be manufactured close to a car factory for quality-control reasons.
> 
> China's rising labor costs and strengthening currency are also making automakers leery of becoming too dependent on China for parts that can be shipped.
> 
> The latest wave of Chinese auto parts exports is nonetheless on the rise, led by domestic Chinese auto parts manufacturers like Wonder Auto that are rapidly gaining strength and starting to enter markets around the globe.
> 
> Domestic manufacturers like Wonder and Wanxiang Group are relying on the same inexpensive Chinese assembly line labor as the multinationals like Delphi Automotive Systems and Visteon. But they can undercut the globe-girdling giants in part by hiring talented but cheaper Chinese engineers and headquarters staff.
> 
> Soaring output at auto assembly plants in China is generating enormous demand for auto parts and creating the economies of large-scale production previously possible only in North America, Europe and Japan.
> 
> With at least a half dozen Chinese automakers planning to start exporting in the next few years, Chinese auto parts will soon be going overseas not just in crates but as part of fully assembled cars.
> 
> Multinational automakers set virtually the same quality standards for their operations all over the world. They are working closely with Chinese parts companies to help them meet these standards; once they do, they are allowed to submit bids for supplying factories elsewhere.
> 
> "They get put on the global list, and then can quote for anything worldwide," said Nick Reilly, the president of GM's Asian and Pacific operations.
> 
> Chinese auto parts have surged in the American market as imports have declined from the Japan, Canada and Malaysia and have stagnated from Mexico and the European Union.
> 
> China is strongest in electrical and electronic components and in cast metal parts that require environmentally hazardous casting and a lot of manual labor for machining.
> 
> Feeling the pinch are small auto parts manufacturers and their employees in the United States, heavily concentrated in Ohio and mainly supplying larger auto parts companies instead of shipping directly to the big automakers.
> 
> While overall U.S. industrial production is on the upswing, the troubles of the auto parts industry could become an issue in next year's presidential elections.
> 
> China is rapidly grabbing orders for replacement parts sold to repair garages. Wanxiang Group is already building up its distribution in the United States by purchasing Neapco, a steering shaft company in Pottstown, Pennsylvania, and striking a deal with Ford in April to buy its prop shaft business.
> 
> Zhao, of Wonder Auto, calculates that it costs him $4 million to set up an assembly line in Jinzhou with mostly manual labor, employing 20 workers.
> 
> The combined wages of 20 workers here come to only $40,000 a year at the current exchange rate of 7.65 yuan to the dollar. That is in the range of annual base pay wages for one unionized auto parts worker in the United States and comparable to two nonunion American auto parts workers.
> 
> Total benefits for 20 workers add up to another $20,000 a year, Zhao said.
> 
> The company's wages of $170 a month remain respectable by the standards of this gritty refinery city of 800,000 in northeastern China. A small apartment without modern amenities like a refrigerator or air conditioning rents for as little as $40 a month, while even a large meal at the restaurant of the city's best hotel costs less than $3.
> 
> Jobs at Wonder Auto are highly prized and turnover is almost zero, said Sun Shao-hua, 30, who strips copper wires for alternators, the devices that take mechanical energy from the engine and turn it into electricity to recharge the battery.
> 
> "Many people come, but nobody ever leaves," he said.
> 
> Zhao said he was already in discussions with General Motors and Volkswagen about supplying their operations, first in China and then overseas. For now, Zhao mainly supplies domestic Chinese carmakers, notably Brilliance China Automotive.
> 
> While China's auto parts industry is growing rapidly, automakers are nervous about buying all of their parts from China. They cite three important factors that are becoming increasingly unpredictable for any manufacturer doing business in China: labor and raw material costs, and the exchange rate of the yuan against the dollar.
> 
> Industrial wages are still low in China compared with wages in other car-manufacturing countries. But Chinese wages have been soaring by 10 percent to 30 percent a year for the last several years, auto executives said.
> 
> Skilled workers at car factories in high-income coastal areas can earn nearly twice as much as workers here in northeastern China, a Rust Belt of aging industrial complexes built with Soviet help in the 1950s.
> 
> The biggest question mark hanging over China's future exports lies in the currency exchange rate - a problem Japanese auto executives in particular know well after dealing with the yen-dollar exchange rate.
> 
> China has only allowed the yuan to appreciate by 6 percent against the dollar in the nearly two years since breaking its fixed peg to the dollar. Chinese officials have repeatedly warned of their reluctance to accept faster appreciation.
> 
> But Chinese foreign-exchange reserves have ballooned to $1.2 trillion from $316 billion in the past four years as Beijing has bought dollars on an enormous scale to prop up demand for the American currency and prevent it from falling faster against the yuan.
> 
> For all the uncertainty, Wonder Auto and other Chinese parts makers are growing quickly. Wonder's sales rose 45.8 percent in the first quarter, to $21.6 million; profits nearly doubled, to $2.7 million.
> 
> Traded on the over-the-counter market in the United States, the company's shares have risen more than fivefold since an initial public offering last June; Wonder Auto has applied for a Nasdaq listing. The rapid rise has enriched Zhao, who owns 54.2 percent of the company's shares, worth more than $90 million, as well as 11 percent of another company in Jinzhou that manufactures air bag sensors.
> 
> That is quite a change from his earlier life. Forced to spend three years on a farm after high school during the Cultural Revolution, Zhao taught himself to fix tractors. Denied admission to a naval academy because his father was a Nationalist soldier before the Communists won China's civil war, Zhao went to a technical institute instead.


...


----------



## tiger

tiger said:


> For April 2007
> 
> 1.Shanghai GM
> 2.Shanghai VW
> 3.FAW VW
> 4.Chery auto
> 5.Dongfeng Nissan
> 6.Guangzhou Honda
> 7.Chana Ford
> 8.FAW Toyota
> 9.Dongfeng PSA
> 10.FAW Xiali


For May 2007

1.FAW VW
2.Chery Auto
3.Shanghai VW
4.Shanghai GM
5.Dongfeng Nissan
6.Geely Auto
7.Guangzhou Honda
8.Chana Ford
9.Dongfeng PSA
10.FAW Toyota


----------



## googleabcd

weird, where is Guangzhou Toyoto, I thought they are doing very good in China's market


----------



## UD2

Nop, Honda and Toyota have never been top listed in China when it comes to sales. Unlike North America, the culture simple is not tuned to the brands. With a stream of bad media and commercial representations, Toyota is lucky it isn't being completely tossed out of the country.

VW has always been on top, mostly because it has been in China forever. It has became apart of the Chinese automobile culture. GM has done a fabilous job in advertising their name in China, where as companies such as Nissan has been in China long enough to know what they're doing.

Look at the list. VW is doing so well that it's competing with it self. With different models ofcourse.


----------



## Sen

Japanese cars have bad reputations in China, they are overpriced and unsafe. VW and GM are the kings in Chinese market.
and if you buy Japanese cars, be prepared to get your window smashed.


----------



## pflo777

i read on bloomberg yesterday , that car sales are up 20% in the first 4 months in 2007.

They also said, that in China right now, there are about 30 mio cars, and that china needs to have 160 mio cars just to be at "world average".

(Not to mention US or EU average)

I wonder where they want to put all those cars, so many roads are jammed already....


----------



## googleabcd

Sen said:


> Japanese cars have bad reputations in China, they are overpriced and unsafe. VW and GM are the kings in Chinese market.
> and if you buy Japanese cars, be prepared to get your window smashed.


You are so wrong. The best selling med-size car in China has been Honda Accord for the last 5 years. And this year will be Toyota Camry.


----------



## googleabcd

To be honest, Japanese cars are always better than American cars when considering the Chinese automibile culture simply because Japan culture derives from Chinese and they are alike a lot.

VW was on top because there was no competition before. After Honda setup its first plant in Guangzhou 5 years ago, Guangzhou Honda Accord became the No.1 best selling med-size car in China. However, when Toyota setup its first plant in Guangzhou last year, Guangzhou Toyota Camry became the No.1 best selling med-size car right away.


UD2 said:


> Nop, Honda and Toyota have never been top listed in China when it comes to sales. Unlike North America, the culture simple is not tuned to the brands. With a stream of bad media and commercial representations, Toyota is lucky it isn't being completely tossed out of the country.
> 
> VW has always been on top, mostly because it has been in China forever. It has became apart of the Chinese automobile culture. GM has done a fabilous job in advertising their name in China, where as companies such as Nissan has been in China long enough to know what they're doing.
> 
> Look at the list. VW is doing so well that it's competing with it self. With different models ofcourse.


----------



## snow is red

How can you mix cars and culture together and make assumption ??


----------



## princeofseoul

here's an article about foreign cars sold in china:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-01-05-gm-china_x.htm

vehicles sold in 2005 in china:
GM 665,000
VW 564,000
Honda 256,000
Hyundai 234,000

not sure about toyota.. I think they were trailing quite a bit but are doing better now.


----------



## pflo777

http://www.autoindustry.co.uk/news/07-06-07_12

China’s May new car market rose 23%; on target for 8.35m this year
7th June 2007

New car registrations in China rose 23% in May to last month to 488,500, partly as manufacturers such as Toyota and Hyundai offered discounts. The figures issued by the country’s trade association CAAM today were reported by China Daily, which added that CAAM had forecast a full year 2007 market of up to 8.35m units, which would represent a 15% annual increase.

In the year to May, China’s car sales rose 21% to 2.57 million units.


----------



## tiger

princeofseoul said:


> here's an article about foreign cars sold in china:
> http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-01-05-gm-china_x.htm
> 
> vehicles sold in 2005 in china:
> GM 665,000
> VW 564,000
> Honda 256,000
> Hyundai 234,000
> 
> not sure about toyota.. I think they were trailing quite a bit but are doing better now.


Please don't put some completely outdated figures on.


----------



## googleabcd

Best selling mid-size sedean in China, May/2007

1/ Camry 凯美瑞 12186
2/ Accord 雅阁 10510
3/ Audi A6 6707
4/ Passat 6300
5/ Buick 君越 4765
6/ Mazda M6 3777
8/ Crown 皇冠 3742
9/ 轩逸Sylphy 3632
10/ 蒙迪欧 3610
11/ 锐志 3445
12/ 凯旋 2546
13/ Altima 天籁 2453
14/ 景程 2324
15/ 荣威750 2019
16/ 东方之子 1823
17/ Sonata 索纳塔 1787


----------



## Sen

in the "mid size segment", the only non Japanese competitor is Passat and Buick, BMW 3 and Audi A4 are the same size but they are not in the same segment because they are luxury marques, it would be funny if Camry and Accord are not leading because no one is competiting with them, but as far as profit and total sales go VW trumps everybody else.
I hope VW AG can maintain its leading position in China, all their products from Skoda Fabia to Audi A4 to Bugatti Veryon are wonderful pieces of engineering.


----------



## snow is red

J.D. Power's Dunne says explosive growth of these exports in emerging markets may signal the industry's arrival as a global player 

by Timothy Dunne 

While the explosive growth of China's automotive market has global automakers and suppliers scrambling to set up or expand their operations inside the Middle Kingdom, the expected deluge of low-priced Chinese passenger car exports in the next few years has distributors and dealers from around the world lining up for the right to sell China-made cars in their home countries. Those companies that are fortunate enough to sign import and distribution agreements with leading Chinese automakers could be sitting on gold mines. 

China sold approximately 4.3 million passenger vehicles (both locally produced and imported) in 2006, up an astounding 1.1 million vehicles from the previous year. Counting all vehicles sold in China in 2006—passenger vehicles, trucks, and buses—sales jump to 7.3 million overall, up from 5.8 million vehicles the previous year. 

This makes China the second-largest vehicle market in the world, surpassing Japan and Germany, and trailing only the U.S. (The U.S. has been, and continues to be, the largest automotive market in the world, averaging about 16.1 million vehicle sales over the past decade.) 

The Buzz About Exports

Moreover, for the first three months of 2007, overall vehicle sales in China are up again 22%, a pace which, if it continues, would mean total industry sales will reach just under 9 million units in 2007. This is a breathtaking achievement, considering China only sold about 2.3 million vehicles in 2000. 

While China's domestic automotive industry is making all the headlines—and deservedly so—the potential for the country's nascent vehicle-export enterprise has importers, distributors, and dealers buzzing, from North America to South America, Europe to Africa, the Middle East to Australia, and beyond. 

Exports of all vehicles from China exceeded 340,000 units in 2006, according to official Ministry of Commerce figures, making China only the fourth-largest vehicle exporter in Asia, behind Japan and Korea, and perhaps surprisingly, Thailand. 

Loads of Potential

By comparison, Japan exported some 5.96 million vehicles in 2006, and Korea exported a record 2.7 million vehicles—with locally branded passenger cars accounting for more than 90% of each country's export volume. Thailand's exports topped 586,000 units in 2006, with Japanese-branded pickup trucks and passenger cars accounting for almost all of its export activity. 

While China's vehicle exports account for a relatively small slice of Asia's overall export pie, the accelerated pace of China's export growth and the potential for further growth have both its competitors and its export cooperation partners sitting up and paying attention. 

Since 2004, China's vehicle exports have doubled annually, from 78,000 units in 2004 to 173,000 units in 2005, and then to 340,000 units in 2006. And exports in 2007's first quarter are up again, nearly 100% compared with the same period in 2006. If this rate continues, it would put China on a pace to reach 700,000 vehicle exports in 2007. Moreover, the majority of these exports are of Chinese-branded vehicles such as FAW, Dongfeng, Liuzhou, JAC, BAIC, Chery, Geely, and others. 

A "Pillar" Industry

If the Chinese government gets its way, this growth will gather speed in both volume and value over the next decade. Official industry estimates put the value of China's 340,000 vehicle exports in 2006 at about $3.2 billion, or $9,400 per vehicle. This compares with 2005 exports of 173,000 vehicles worth $1.58 billion, or an average of $9,100 per vehicle. By comparison, the value of Korea's 2.7 million exports in 2006 was estimated at $33 billion, or an average of $12,200 per vehicle, or 33% higher than China. 

This would appear to give China's vehicles a significant advantage because of their ability to compete with other industrializing countries that still maintain low-cost positions. Though to be fair, this comparison is not completely "apples-to-apples," as most of Korea's exports are of passenger cars being sent to developed markets, while the majority of China's exports are a wide-range of commercial vehicles—varying in price from $3,000 for a one-liter "mini-truck" to $10,000-$12,000 for six-wheeled trucks or buses—sold to developing markets. 

While China today is still a bit player in the global vehicle export game, the Chinese government has designated autos one of the "pillar" industries on which the country's economy is based. Hence, it's taking concrete action to support exports in the automotive sector. 

Setting Limits to Support Pricing

China's leadership has said that it expects to increase the combined value of its vehicle and auto parts exports to a remarkable $120 billion by 2015, or about 10% of the world's total vehicle trading volume. This is an increase from only about $15 billion in exports in 2006 (for both vehicles and auto parts). 

To support its ambitions, the government's first move was to establish favored automotive export zones in a half-dozen areas around China, providing favorable tax treatment and other perks to companies in the area—mostly Chinese-controlled—that are export-competitive. Its second move, announced in January, 2007, was that it would limit the number of exporter licenses issued to automotive-related companies in China, hoping to avoid the downward spiral in pricing experienced by other Chinese export industries when too many companies were allowed to compete. 

The bulk of China's vehicle exports in the past have been of commercial vehicles—low-priced and relatively low-tech trucks and buses—mostly destined for countries with developing economies. In 2006, about 70% of the 340,000 vehicles exported from China fit into this commercial vehicle category, while the remaining 30% (about 101,000 vehicles) were passenger cars, SUVs, or vans intended mostly for personal transportation. While passenger vehicles account for the smaller portion of overseas vehicle sales today, the government, as well as Chinese OEMs and foreign importers, expect that Chinese passenger cars will eventually lead China's export ambitions. 

Just Getting Started

Exports of passenger vehicles reached only 32,000 units in 2005, but tripled to more than 100,000 units in 2006. Furthermore, after the first three months of 2007, they're on pace to exceed 200,000 units for the full year. 

For now, Chinese passenger vehicle exporters are cutting their teeth on developing markets in Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, Russia, Africa, and Central and South America. There they're learning to refine their products to meet local tastes by improving their business processes and discovering how to market to, sell to, and service customers in foreign lands. 

After they have had a chance to improve themselves in smaller markets, it will be only a matter of time before China's upstart automakers make their way to North America, Europe, Korea, and Japan, to take on the world's top competition and most demanding consumers.

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jun2007/gb20070604_816866.htm


----------



## googleabcd

1. Most cars are mid-size cars
2. Most people buy mid-size cars



Sen said:


> in the "mid size segment", the only non Japanese competitor is Passat and Buick, BMW 3 and Audi A4 are the same size but they are not in the same segment because they are luxury marques, it would be funny if Camry and Accord are not leading because no one is competiting with them, but as far as profit and total sales go VW trumps everybody else.
> I hope VW AG can maintain its leading position in China, all their products from Skoda Fabia to Audi A4 to Bugatti Veryon are wonderful pieces of engineering.


----------



## el palmesano

tiger said:


> Yeah,Lifan is one of the largest motorcycle companies of China and entered the car market several years ago.it's already exporting its car now,but unlike its motorcycles,the car exportation is still very small scaled.
> 
> 
> 
> Chana is one of the oldest carmakers of China(140 years old)and is one the largest R&D investors in this sector.Chana has more than 1000 engineers(still growing fast every year)working in its R&D department spreading from Chongqing,Shanghai to Italy and Germany with 24/24h continous work hence very innovative.
> 
> I never heard of Yu feng.Let's take a look at a concept car of Chana shown publicly recently.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The logo


wow, beautiful


----------



## snow is red

Auto sales keep roaring

China, the second-largest auto market in the world, continues to see an upswing in auto sales and production this year, with both sales and production reporting more than 20 percent growth in the first four months, according to an industry association.
Automakers produced over three million automobiles in China from January to April, of which 2,934,000 units were sold, a year-on-year growth of 21.36 and 21.46 percent respectively, as shown in statistics from the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers (CAAM).

In the first four months, over 2.1 million passenger cars, including sedans, sport utility vehicles, multi-purpose vehicles and minibuses, were manufactured, and over two million units were sold.

In April, China-made autos topped 815,200 units and sales hit 808,700, an increase of 18.48 and 19.78 percent respectively, compared to the same period last year. Passenger car production climbed 12.29 percent year-on-year to 544,600, while sales soared 15.98 percent to 545,800.

The top three automakers in terms of sales in the same period were Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp (SAIC), First Automotive Works Corp (FAW) and Dongfeng Motor Corp. In April, FAW topped sales, followed by SAIC and Dongfeng.

Domestic-owned brands were led by Chery, and Geely had a stronger presence than foreign brands this year. In the first four months of this year, sales of domestic autos reached 449,700 units, accounting for 29.31 percent of all passenger vehicles sold in China and ranking number one, up from second place last year.

In April, 116,200 domestic autos were sold, making up 28.22 percent of total car sales. China-made cars were trailed by Japanese, German and South Korean brands, with a market share of 26.88, 20.44 and 14.07 percents respectively.

Analysts said the growth in the auto sector in the first four months was mainly due to new model releases and price cut incentives by automakers.

Apart from the boom in the domestic market, automakers are penetrating further into the overseas market.

China exported 99,800 vehicles in the first quarter of this year, up 5.32 percent from the same period of last year, according to figures from the General Administration of Customs. The export of sedans soared up 49 percent from last year to 25,000 units.

In the first quarter of this year, China imported 59,100 vehicles, up 16.72 percent from the same period last year, according to the auto association. Among them, 28,000 were sedans, an increase of 30.93 percent.

China's top 16 auto groups reported a 70 percent increase in first-quarter profits boosted by brisk sales.

Post-tax profits totaled 12.8 billion yuan in the first three months of 2007, up 69.9 percent from a year ago, according to CAAM figures. SAIC Motor Corp Ltd, the biggest manufacturer by sales, posted a profit growth of 71.9 percent, while profits from FAW, the number two domestic carmarker, increased by one-third.


----------



## snow is red

Chongqing, China _ A Chinese motorcycle company that began making cars last year says it will buy a BMW engine factory in Brazil if the equipment can be moved to China. ''We dropped the plan last year after the Brazil government said we could not shift the factory,'' said Yin Mingshan, the president of Chongqing Lifan Holdings. ''We're still interested in buying ... if the government changes its mind.'' 

Chongqing Lifan is seeking acquisitions outside China to spur sales. The company, which will have 18 overseas plants by December, generated two-thirds of its profit outside China last year, he said, without giving figures. 

BMW and rival DaimlerChrysler jointly set up the engine plant in Campo Largo, Brazil in 1999 to make 1.6- and 1.4-litre gasoline engines. They export all the engines to global customers that include China's Chery Automobile Co. 

Chongqing Lifan, China's largest motorbike exporter, plans an IPO in Shanghai later this year. BLOOMBERG NEWS


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Russians made a crash-test of Cherry Amulet at 64 km/h, and here is what they got. The article is in Russian but it's pretty self-explanatory. At the end the article compares Amulet with Russian (Ukrainian) vehicles. 

Roughly, I can translate the title "В ХЛАМ" as "TOTAL" :lol: 


































Here is what happened when Brits tested the vehicle at 56 km/h. As you can see, the damages are much lesser than those received at 64 km/h. 










Although I myself am a great fan of small economy cars, I would never buy Amulet. Once I hit a stationary vehicle at 64 km/h and came out with minor injuries. My good old Ford Escort passed the test  Should have I driven Cherry Amulet instead, I am not sure if I would be here to tell you the story.


----------



## Sen

what year is your Ford Escort?


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

My Ford Escort ZX2 was a 2000 model. After the collision it was totalled, of course. At least, I was not totalled


----------



## YelloPerilo

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> My Ford Escort ZX2 was a 2000 model. After the collision it was totalled, of course. At least, I was not totalled


Is total a verb at all? :nuts:


----------



## Sen

I think so.
well your escort is from 2000, the chery amulet is based on some outdated 80's seat model, the difference should be obvious. It is already being phased out in China now, I hope Russian customers will get the same treatment.


----------



## kelvinyang

YelloPerilo said:


> Is total a verb at all? :nuts:


Yes, it can be used as a verb.


----------



## tiger

昨天中午12点07分，我国自主研制的第一台氢内燃发动机，在长安集团点火成功，标志着我国氢内燃机技术取得了突破性进展。

国家唯一立项863重点项目
　　氢内燃机是一种新型内燃机，目前尚属全球汽车新能源的前沿科技领域。氢内燃机就是采用氢气作为燃料的发动机。因氢气从水中提取，燃烧后又产生水，而且燃烧值极高，是一种能够循环利用的环保资源。氢气被称为解决汽车燃料问题的终极方案。据悉，目前国外仅德国宝马研发了氢内燃发动机，用于宝马7系上（尚未正式上市）。日本、美国、印度等国也在氢内燃机上进行了深入研究。
　　长安氢内燃机排量2.0升。据介绍，长安氢内燃机研究是国家唯一立项的863氢燃料重点项目，2005年9月正式启动。
　　氢燃料汽车类似双燃料车
　　“下一步就该进行整车匹配试验和生产整车了。”长安汽车专家称，氢气作为汽车燃料，它的动力比汽油还好，但诸多差别决定了氢内燃机不能直接放在汽车上就了事，还要对发动机车和汽车进行匹配试验，才能制造出完美的氢燃料汽车。
　　未来的氢燃料汽车是什么样子？类似重庆双燃料出租车！德国宝马氢能7系给出了一个答案。据悉，宝马氢能7系汽车采用6.0升氢气和汽油双燃料发动机。车上除配备一个普通油箱外，还装备一个氢气罐。据悉，宝马氢能7系加一罐氢气和一箱汽油，能够跑上700公里。
　　氢气成本比天然气还低
　　尽管制造氢燃料车在技术上比天然气汽车难得多，但在使用上两者具有一定相似性。
　　现实的问题是，加氢站还是空白。据专家介绍，目前氢气的来源途径有两个：电解水生成氢气和工业副产品（氢气）。有消息称，现在上海工业产生的副产品氢气，每年能够满足15万辆以上的氢燃料汽车行驶。
　　可以描绘这样一幅蓝图：建一个或数个大型制氢厂，然后铺设输氢管道到现在的各个加气站，汽车开到加气站就可补充氢气。
　　目前，汽车使用天然气比汽油便宜2/3左右。长安人士称，氢气的动力强于天然气，但生产氢气的成本远比开采天然气低。因此，氢燃料汽车的前景非常广阔。










昨日，长安集团，长安氢内燃机点火成功 记者 徐元宾 摄


----------



## pflo777

^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ 

as it is posted in an international forum, could you translate it for us


----------



## snow is red

It basically about China's first independently developed hydrogen internal combustion engine.And it says currently only Germany possesses this technology. America, Japan and India are still at experimental stage.


To Tiger

Isn't this supposed to be 2006 news ?? Or is it recent news ??


----------



## snowmancn

Chery A6 designed base on the European standard


----------



## snowmancn




----------



## snowmancn

It has eight airbags and used better steel, it is designed to get at least four stars, maybe even five stars.

http://che168.msn.com.cn/article/html/200704/20070422/20070422_153918_2.html

one airbag used to protect the leg


----------



## snowmancn

The test production of Chery A6 is finished several days ago. It will be on the market in four months. 



So, do you like to get one?:nuts:
Am I a good car salesman?:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## snow is red

I seriously hope this car will get 4 stars. Please no more Brilliance disaster, I put my faith in Chery now.


----------



## snow is red

snowmancn said:


> Here is the test score comparing Chery A5 with GM, VW and Toyota.
> http://www.c-ncap.org/content/pzjg/Blcyc.htm
> 
> Chery A5 got three stars, its score is 37.6. GM: four stars, score:40.2 VW:four stars, score:40.3 . Toyota:fiver stars score:47.7
> 
> for the 100% front crash test: Chery A5 score is 13.5 even better than VW:12.32 and GM: got 13.55
> 
> Chery A5 is very close to get a four star. But the selling price of Chery A5 is about $9000 US dollar, the price of VW is about 2.5 times of Chery A5, the price of GM , Toyota is about three times of Chery A5. If Chery A5 improve it to get a four stars, it will sell well it Russian.


This is still not good enough, Chery must try harder to get 4 and make new models, not those old ones.


----------



## Rahmani

snowmancn said:


> Chery A6 designed base on the European standard


This car looks good. Any english information site about it?


----------



## snowmancn

^^ It not on the market yet, can't find it.


----------



## snowmancn

02tonyl said:


> This is still not good enough, Chery must try harder to get 4 and make new models, not those old ones.
> 
> Yes, Chery A5, should install a side airbag, and use a better steel bar on the side, it will get a four stars, >40. <50
> 
> One way to improve the image is to make sure the model can get  four stars. For the export model to US, four stars is a must, because drivers in US almost use freeway everyday, while in China many people don't want to use freeway unless they have to, or they are rich, for the freeway is not free. IF you travel cross China from the North to the South using the freeway, you can use the fee to buy an air ticket.


----------



## snow is red

tiger said:


> 昨天中午12点07分，我国自主研制的第一台氢内燃发动机，在长安集团点火成功，标志着我国氢内燃机技术取得了突破性进展。
> 
> 国家唯一立项863重点项目
> 氢内燃机是一种新型内燃机，目前尚属全球汽车新能源的前沿科技领域。氢内燃机就是采用氢气作为燃料的发动机。因氢气从水中提取，燃烧后又产生水，而且燃烧值极高，是一种能够循环利用的环保资源。氢气被称为解决汽车燃料问题的终极方案。据悉，目前国外仅德国宝马研发了氢内燃发动机，用于宝马7系上（尚未正式上市）。日本、美国、印度等国也在氢内燃机上进行了深入研究。
> 长安氢内燃机排量2.0升。据介绍，长安氢内燃机研究是国家唯一立项的863氢燃料重点项目，2005年9月正式启动。
> 氢燃料汽车类似双燃料车
> “下一步就该进行整车匹配试验和生产整车了。”长安汽车专家称，氢气作为汽车燃料，它的动力比汽油还好，但诸多差别决定了氢内燃机不能直接放在汽车上就了事，还要对发动机车和汽车进行匹配试验，才能制造出完美的氢燃料汽车。
> 未来的氢燃料汽车是什么样子？类似重庆双燃料出租车！德国宝马氢能7系给出了一个答案。据悉，宝马氢能7系汽车采用6.0升氢气和汽油双燃料发动机。车上除配备一个普通油箱外，还装备一个氢气罐。据悉，宝马氢能7系加一罐氢气和一箱汽油，能够跑上700公里。
> 氢气成本比天然气还低
> 尽管制造氢燃料车在技术上比天然气汽车难得多，但在使用上两者具有一定相似性。
> 现实的问题是，加氢站还是空白。据专家介绍，目前氢气的来源途径有两个：电解水生成氢气和工业副产品（氢气）。有消息称，现在上海工业产生的副产品氢气，每年能够满足15万辆以上的氢燃料汽车行驶。
> 可以描绘这样一幅蓝图：建一个或数个大型制氢厂，然后铺设输氢管道到现在的各个加气站，汽车开到加气站就可补充氢气。
> 目前，汽车使用天然气比汽油便宜2/3左右。长安人士称，氢气的动力强于天然气，但生产氢气的成本远比开采天然气低。因此，氢燃料汽车的前景非常广阔。
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 昨日，长安集团，长安氢内燃机点火成功 记者 徐元宾 摄




I think this is the english version, kinda short ye


http://www.automotiveworld.com/aem/content.asp?contentid=61697
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/06/changan-fires-u.html


----------



## snow is red

Chery's exports quadruple in 1st half
(Xinhua)
Updated: 2007-07-12 15:21


Chinese carmaker Chery Automobile said its exports quadrupled in the first half of the year, with overseas sales likely to top 100,000 vehicles for the whole year.

Its exports soared to 52,712 vehicles in the first six months of this year from 13,548 in the first half of 2006, an increase of 290 percent, the company said in a statement.

Chery, based in the eastern Chinese city of Wuhu, sold 30,638 vehicles in the second quarter, up from 22,074 in the first quarter.

The 10-year-old flag-bearer of Chinese indigenous brands has accelerated its expansion in the overseas markets in recent years, with exports rising from 18,000 vehicles in 2005 to 500,000 in 2006.

The company currently holds a 7.2 percent market share in the domestic market, while it has sold cars to 50 countries, with Russia, Iran, Egypt, Indonesia and Argentina its major markets overseas.

To break into the North American and European markets, it signed a cooperation deal last week with Chrysler Group, which would select four to six compact models developed by Chery for exports under Chrysler Group brands.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2007-07/12/content_6000413.htm


----------



## snow is red

China-Made CVT Transmission To Be Produced Next Year


SHANGHAI - July 24, 2007: Luoyang Sanming Industry Co. announced their plans last Thursday to initiate production of China's first independently patented CVT transmission. Production will begin by the first quarter of 2008 with a total investment of 220 million yuan. The planned annual output will be 50,000 units.

Luoyang Sanming Industry Co., Ltd is one of the main private corporations in Henan Province. Having spent five years, from 1997 to 2002, to successfully develop the Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT). The CVT technique owned by Sanming Company is China's only independent intellectual property in the field of advanced automobile technique to be awarded a national invention patent. The use of CVT will make China the third country to have an independent CVT transmission patent behind Germany and Japan.

Experts from the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers say CVT transmissions use different gear mechanism which differentiates them from an automatic transmission. CVT operates on an ingenious pulley system that allows an infinite variability between the highest and the lowest gears with no discrete steps or shifts. This eliminates the impact caused by shift changing and transmission torque, thus greatly enhances driving comfort. Moreover, CVT solves the high fuel consumption problem compared with manual gearbox transmission (MT) and automatic transmission (AT).

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/07/24/056053.html


----------



## ames

good cars


----------



## prelude

WONDERFUL CARS AT VERY CHEAP RATES ....IF THEY CAN KEEPUP WITH THE QUALITY ..I M SURE THE NEXT AUTOMOBILE GIANT IS GOING TO BE CHINA


----------



## ihilaryduff

beat japan to death


----------



## KB

that chery A6 looks quite cool.


----------



## Huhu

..................


> *At Frankfurt Motor Show, weeding out Chinese knockoffs*
> By Mark Landler (The New York Times)
> Published: September 11, 2007
> 
> FRANKFURT: It is hardly surprising that a car billed as the "ultimate driving machine" would spawn imitators. But for BMW, the Shuanghuan CEO is less a respectful homage than a brazen knockoff.
> 
> BMW is going after Shuanghuan, a Chinese carmaker that hopes to break into Europe, on charges that its sport utility vehicle, the CEO, is a copy of BMW's popular SUV, the X5. The German carmaker has filed a lawsuit in Munich to prohibit the sale of the CEO in Germany.
> 
> Shuanghuan's European importer defied BMW by exhibiting the car on the first day of the Frankfurt International Motor Show on Tuesday, providing a vivid glimpse of the low-grade war over intellectual property rights between China and the West on goods ranging from designer handbags to computer chips.
> 
> "We did not like it," the chief executive of Bayerische Moteren Werke, Norbert Reithofer, said during an interview here.
> 
> Neither did DaimlerChrysler, which is taking legal action against Shuanghuan to prevent it from selling the Noble, a little car that bears an uncanny resemblance to the Smart mini-car made by Daimler. The Noble did not turn up at this show, though the importer, China Automobile Deutschland, insists that it has decided on its own not to distribute the car in Germany.
> 
> "Naturally, our cars are inspired by European carmakers," said Karl Schlössl, a German who is the chief executive of China Automobile. "But we reject the charge that these are copies."
> 
> Schlössl seemed to be reveling in the dispute, which catapulted his Chinese brand from obscurity to center stage at this auto show traditionally dominated by the titans of German auto-making.
> 
> At a circus-like news conference, Schlössl refused to speak the name BMW, instead humming it. He spoke of having a southern German accent that would make him at home in the hallways of BMW, based in Munich, and he introduced a tall blonde woman as his companion.
> 
> Still, there are serious issues behind the theatrics. Few European executives doubt the Chinese will be genuine competitors here in a few years - perhaps learning faster than the Japanese or the Koreans - despite a bumpy start in the market because of safety concerns with their first cars.
> 
> And with the web of alliances between Chinese and Western automakers, there are plenty of opportunities for European innovations to turn up in Chinese cars that are then peddled to Europeans.
> 
> General Motors and Honda have accused Chinese carmakers of copying their designs - often slavishly - but have gotten little relief from Chinese courts. Some analysts said the European manufacturers needed to accept copying as the price of doing business in China.
> 
> "There are three copies of the Smart," said Graeme Maxton, an independent auto analyst in Hong Kong. "When it comes to body panels, I almost sympathize with the Chinese; it's not that big a deal."
> 
> Maxton said Chinese carmakers sometimes copied the exterior of a car from one model, and the interior from another. In the case of the CEO, it is not even clear that the BMW X5 was the only source for the outside. Automobile critics have said that while the rear end of the vehicle is a dead ringer for the X5, the front end is reminiscent of a Toyota Land Cruiser.
> 
> BMW emphasized that under the hood, the CEO was no X5. Small wonder: The X5 starts at €59,000, or $86,830, in Europe; the twin turbo diesel model on display here goes for €92,000. Schlössl said the CEO would sell for a base price of €25,900.
> 
> "Someone who buys a BMW for €100,000 is not the same person who will look at a CEO," he said.
> 
> Still, the Germans are zealous about protecting their image, particularly at a car show held on their home turf.
> 
> "I think it's confusing to our customer base," said DaimlerChrysler's chairman, Dieter Zetsche. "Showing a vehicle that looks very similar to a car on our stand raises unnecessary questions." Zetsche said he would consider more litigation against the Noble, the Smart look alike.
> 
> DaimlerChrysler and BMW have manufacturing operations in China as well as thriving export franchises, and neither seemed keen on turning the dispute into a broader offensive against China. Zetsche and Reithofer said they believed the Chinese government would protect intellectual property more zealously as their own engineers begin turning out original technology.
> 
> But Zetsche acknowledged there were likely to be further such flare-ups, as China develops its industry. "In Asia, in general, the culture does not define copying as something bad or unethical," he said.
> 
> For now, the Chinese are struggling with even more basic issues, like designing a car safe enough for European roads. Two other carmakers, Brilliance JinBei Automobile and Landwind, suffered when their cars performed abysmally in crash tests conducted by the German automobile club ADAC.
> 
> Landwind stopped selling here temporarily while it retools its cars to improve safety, said Peter Bijvelds, a Dutch car dealer who holds the European distribution license for the brand.
> 
> Brilliance, which collaborates with BMW in assembling cars in China, insisted Tuesday that it had improved its safety, though it still received only a middling score in another crash test. It introduced a compact car, the BS2, which could be a low-cost alternative to the Volkswagen Golf.
> 
> The vice chairman of Brilliance, He Guohua, said he, too, believed China would regulate intellectual property more strictly in coming years. In any event, he said, his company's cars, which were styled with the help of an Italian design studio, did not rip off any European rivals. "We do our own design work," He said.


----------



## Northern Lotus

Does Brilliance know that BS2 means Bull Shit in English?


----------



## snow is red

You mean BS6 ?? Yes BS means Bullshit but I don't know what BS6 is maybe bullshit 6 times ?? lol 

But anyway brilliance did some improvement eh. 

http://www.aastocks.com/eng/News/newstext.asp?source=AFX&item=AFX2007812170455

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=122625

http://news.euro-truck.biz/autoblog...ce-bs6-garners-3-stars-in-spain-crash-test-2/


----------



## snow is red

http://www.autojunk.nl/clips/view/133007


----------



## soup or man

snowmancn said:


> Chery A6 designed base on the European standard


Hmmm...

Suzuki SX4









+

Scion tC









=


----------



## snow is red

hmm.... I think the italian designer Bertone did a wonderful job there


----------



## el palmesano

Brilliance BC3 









Brilliance M2


----------



## gladisimo

BC3 is so ugly, looks like an old MG.

The M2 looks like a coss between a BMW and a Acura RL. Looks very messy.


----------



## Shukie

You haven't seen ugly yet:


----------



## MARACUCHisimo

In Venezuela you can find dealers of Chery, Geely, Great Wall Motors GWM, Hafei, Landwind, Saic-Wuling and Zhongxing and all the cars they sale are AWFUL (BTW i don't want to offend chinise people at SCC)


----------



## MARACUCHisimo

ohhh and Chana!


----------



## zergcerebrates

MARACUCHisimo said:


> In Venezuela you can find dealers of Chery, Geely, Great Wall Motors GWM, Hafei, Landwind, Saic-Wuling and Zhongxing and all the cars they sale are AWFUL (BTW i don't want to offend chinise people at SCC)



I guess Chinese cars are different at different markets. We will truly see how the Chinese car quality is when they arrive in the USA. I heard they are planning on entire new line of models(by brilliance).


----------



## snow is red

MARACUCHisimo said:


> In Venezuela you can find dealers of Chery, Geely, Great Wall Motors GWM, Hafei, Landwind, Saic-Wuling and Zhongxing and all the cars they sale are AWFUL (BTW i don't want to offend chinise people at SCC)


Thanx for the info


----------



## KB

Shukie said:


> You haven't seen ugly yet:


Whoever made that design is devoid of any aesthetic sense, unless it was really an "who can make the ugliest car" competition. 

I like the cherry and Geely though.


----------



## Huhu

I think it's supposed to resemble a clog (dutch shoe).


----------



## VikramRao

oliver999 said:


> SUV looks all this shape,no surprise.


what ??? SUVS do not look the same, a range rover does look like ceo suv from china, but if ceo decides to copy it bit for bit, part for part, youre righ it will look the same.


----------



## FK

Shukie said:


> You haven't seen ugly yet:


I'm sure it has a small engine, otherwise there is no chance this car will stay on the road! Look at the aerodynamics, the car will fly off the road the moment it touches 70-100!


----------



## hkskyline

*China rolls out first self-designed hybrid car *

SHANGHAI, Dec 15 (Reuters) - China's state-owned Chang'an Automobile group has started making its own hybrid cars, the first such move by a Chinese automaker, the Xinhua news agency reported. 

Mass production of the Chinese-designed car, which consumes 20 percent less fuel than ordinary cars of the same size, was launched after six years of research and development, Xinhua said late on Friday. 

"This shows Chinese automakers have grasped the core technology of making hybrid cars," the report said, adding that Chang'an will donate 10 such vehicles for the 2008 Beijing Olympics. 

The Chang'an group controls listed Changan Automobile Co , a Chinese partner of Ford Motor Co and Mazda Motor Corp . The listed arm, based in the southwestern city of Chongqing, is also China's largest mini-van maker. 

Demand for hybrid cars is negligible in China, where petrol is subsidised and the impact of polluting factories on local neighbourhoods is more the focus of environmentalists than larger issues such as global warming. 

Fuel economy figures little in consumers' purchasing decisions in China. Hybrid cars are also expensive since the government offers buyers no incentives to purchase them. 

Toyota Motor Corp was the first carmaker to build hybrid cars in China. General Motors Corp said last month it would begin producing a hybrid car in China from next year, in time for the Beijing Olympics in August. 

Japan's Nikkei said the hybrid vehicle made by Chang'an is based on a 2-liter compact wagon that will be able to travel 100 kilometres (62 miles) on 6.8 litres of gasoline, and it will be officially released next year. 

The new hybrid is close in size to Toyota's Prius hybrid, which the Japanese automaker has assembled and sold in China since late 2005, the Nikkei said. 

Chinese sales of the Toyota hybrid were down 86 percent in the first 10 months of 2007 from the same period a year earlier to 299 units, as the vehicle's 300,000 yuan ($40,700) price tag dampened its popularity, it said. 

Changan's new offering will cost around 150,000 yuan, roughly 20,000 yuan more than the base vehicle but just half as much as the Prius, the Nikkei said. 

($1=7.3715)


----------



## snow is red

hkskyline said:


> *China rolls out first self-designed hybrid car *
> 
> SHANGHAI, Dec 15 (Reuters) - China's state-owned Chang'an Automobile group has started making its own hybrid cars, the first such move by a Chinese automaker, the Xinhua news agency reported.
> 
> Mass production of the Chinese-designed car, which consumes 20 percent less fuel than ordinary cars of the same size, was launched after six years of research and development, Xinhua said late on Friday.
> 
> "This shows Chinese automakers have grasped the core technology of making hybrid cars," the report said, adding that Chang'an will donate 10 such vehicles for the 2008 Beijing Olympics.
> 
> The Chang'an group controls listed Changan Automobile Co , a Chinese partner of Ford Motor Co and Mazda Motor Corp . The listed arm, based in the southwestern city of Chongqing, is also China's largest mini-van maker.
> 
> Demand for hybrid cars is negligible in China, where petrol is subsidised and the impact of polluting factories on local neighbourhoods is more the focus of environmentalists than larger issues such as global warming.
> 
> Fuel economy figures little in consumers' purchasing decisions in China. Hybrid cars are also expensive since the government offers buyers no incentives to purchase them.
> 
> Toyota Motor Corp was the first carmaker to build hybrid cars in China. General Motors Corp said last month it would begin producing a hybrid car in China from next year, in time for the Beijing Olympics in August.
> 
> Japan's Nikkei said the hybrid vehicle made by Chang'an is based on a 2-liter compact wagon that will be able to travel 100 kilometres (62 miles) on 6.8 litres of gasoline, and it will be officially released next year.
> 
> The new hybrid is close in size to Toyota's Prius hybrid, which the Japanese automaker has assembled and sold in China since late 2005, the Nikkei said.
> 
> Chinese sales of the Toyota hybrid were down 86 percent in the first 10 months of 2007 from the same period a year earlier to 299 units, as the vehicle's 300,000 yuan ($40,700) price tag dampened its popularity, it said.
> 
> Changan's new offering will cost around 150,000 yuan, roughly 20,000 yuan more than the base vehicle but just half as much as the Prius, the Nikkei said.
> 
> ($1=7.3715)


Chang'an may be the first but certainly not the last, Chery and Lifan are also trying to develop their own hybrid engines.


----------



## snow is red

Brilliance, Chery become first local brands to meet EU-IV standards

Shanghai. December 14 (Gasgoo.com) – Some car models made by Brilliance Auto and Chery Auto have recently passed EU-IV emission tests made by the Environmental Protection Bureau of Beijing.

The Environmental Protection Bureau of Beijing announced earlier this month to implement EU-IV emissions in the city before the Olympic Games next year.

The bureau has recently approved 200 vehicle models that could meet EU-IV emission standards. While the vast majority the 200 models are foreign or joint venture brands, Brilliance and Chery are the only local automakers whose models have been approved by local authorities.

Brilliance Auto has 9 Jingbei passenger vehicle models and 5 Zhonghua sedan models approved by the local authorities.

Chery has one mini-MPV model codenamed Qilin 2 and two sedan models codenamed A1 (1.3 Liter), QQ (1.3 Liter) approved by local authorities.

"By next year, Chery may have one or two models that cannot meet EU-IV standards, or not allowed to be sold in Beijing area,” said Li Feng, deputy manager of Chery Auto. “It takes time for all Chery-made vehicles to meet this standard.”


----------



## snow is red

BYD iron battery engine


----------



## snow is red

China's Lifan launches its own developed VVT engine

Shanghai. December 5 (Gasgoo.com) -Chongqing-based Chinese automaker Lifan Automobile recently unveiled self-developed 1.8L VVT (Variable valve timing) engine, which makes it the first Chinese automaker to develop such technology on its own.

"Lifan has been committed to developing its own engines and this furthers our efforts to deliver new engine technology to customers, "said Hu Qi, general manager of Lifan Sales Company, adding that the newly developed engine will be equipped on various Lifan models.

The company has signed a Heads of Agreement with Britain Ricardo PLC to develop a new family of car engines and transmissions starting October 2006. The collaboration aims at providing Lifan with internationally competitive powertrain products and technologies to facilitate its continued expansion.

As one of China's biggest private motorcycle manufacturers, Lifan obtained automobile production license from government in 2005. By October this year, the company has sold 40,000 vehicles and it expected to sell 50,000 this year. Lifan has set up assembly lines in Russia, Vietnam, Egypt, Iran and Ethiopia.


----------



## snow is red

Lifan passes E-mark accreditation

Shanghai. November 16 (Gasgoo.com) - Chongqing Lifan Group, one of China's leading motorcycle makers, have passed E mark accreditation from Netherland authorities, which indicates Lifan’s products can enter 18 European countries.

Lifan said every aspect of Lifan 520 car, including exterior parts such as lamps, tires, glasses, horns, and seats can well meet the requirements of the regulations.

The E mark is based on ECE regulations issued by the Geneva-based Economic Commission for Europe. It is the proof of compliance with directives (laws) required by the European Union. The Council of European communities in Brussels issues these directives and all members must accept approved products.

It allows auto manufacturers to demonstrate to existing and potential customers that their product meets the applicable automotive EMC requirements. Some of the automotive "extras", such as car stereos, alarm systems, power sunroofs, mobile phone adapters, navigational systems and high-mounted stop lamps, are also under scrutiny for EMC.

It can also simplify the certification process for the manufacturer significantly, i.e. if all relevant electronic and electric systems have been individually approved, no further testing is required on the vehicle. Additionally, components which are covered by the Automotive EMC Directive and comply with the EMC Directive 89/336/EEC may be marked with the CE Marking.

Earlier this month Lifan announced that its Lifan 520 sedan produced by the company's assembly line in Russia has passed the Europe R-94 crash test. The company also announced a $160mln worth export contract with Russian partner AutoMir after it passed the Russia crash test.


----------



## snow is red

Chinese automakers looking to gain a foothold in new technologies

SHANGHAI, China - One experimental clean-energy car runs on natural gas. Another uses ethanol distilled from corn. A third has a zero-emissions electric motor powered by a hydrogen fuel cell.

These alternative vehicles were created not by a global automaker but by China’s small but ambitious car companies, which displayed them Sunday alongside gasoline-powered sedans and sport utility vehicles at the start of the Shanghai Auto Show.

At a time when they are still trying to establish themselves in international markets, Chinese automakers are already investing in such avant-garde research in a bid to win a foothold in the next generation of technology.

“This is the tide of the industry. If you don’t go with the tide, the industry will pass you by,” said Qin Lihong, a vice president of China’s biggest domestic automaker, Chery Auto Co., in an interview ahead of the show’s opening.

China’s communist leaders are encouraging the development as part of efforts to cut pollution and rising dependence on imported oil and to make this country a creator of profitable technologies.

Chinese manufacturers are getting help from foreign automakers in joint ventures and from research alliances with Chinese universities and government laboratories.

Beijing has made cleaner cars a policy priority, targeting the field as one of 11 priority areas in a 15-year technology development plan issued in February 2006. It promised grants and tax breaks to support industry efforts.

The campaign embodies one of Beijing’s strategies in technology development: Pick new areas with no entrenched competitors so China can make breakthroughs without huge costs.

While foreign automakers have a lead in conventional technology, “in new energy we’re starting from almost the same line,” said Chen Hong, the president of Shanghai Automotive Industries Corp.

“So we believe we can catch up with other auto companies and make great progress in developing new energy vehicles,” Chen said.

China’s leaders are pressing its auto, steel, manufacturing and other industries to improve energy efficiency and cut pollution.

They see China’s rising reliance on imported oil as a strategic weakness, especially since much of it comes from the politically volatile Middle East and crosses seas beyond Beijing’s control.

China already is the world’s No. 2 oil consumer after the United States and saw imports soar by 14.5 percent in 2006, driven by economic growth that has topped 10 percent for the past four years.

A boom in car sales has added to smog shrouding China’s major cities, which are among the world’s dirtiest. Vehicle sales jumped 25.1 percent last year to 7.2 million units, including 3.8 million passenger cars.

At the Shanghai show, both SAIC and Chery displayed experimental fuel-cell sedans, while they and a third Chinese automaker, Chang’an Automobile Group Co., also showed gasoline-electric hybrids.

SAIC said it will start selling its hybrid next year, while Qin said Chery’s would go on the market in two to three years.

“The hybrid will be our focus,” SAIC chairman Hu Maoyan said at a news conference. “The fuel cell will be our direction.”

SAIC has spent 100 million yuan ($12 million) on fuel cell research, according to state media.

Chery had the widest array of alternative vehicles on display at the Shanghai show. They included models outfitted to run on bio-diesel made from vegetable oil or a “flexible fuel” choice of compressed natural gas or ethanol.

Foreign automakers also are playing a role in China’s research.

General Motors Corp. has a joint-venture technology center with SAIC in Shanghai and operates three experimental fuel cell buses in the city. DaimlerChrysler AG has three of its own fuel cell buses running regular routes in Beijing in a research project with the technology ministry.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18261452/


----------



## 7freedom7

*Geely F3-E*


----------



## 7freedom7

GTR22 said:


> Can you say COROLLA?hno:


jee, yes, from the head it looks like 2006 corolla and from the rear it's like honda fit sedan's backside, and yet F3 is just the first released car for BYD as their first attempt, which is still a big improvement for them


----------



## 7freedom7

*Geely GC*


----------



## 7freedom7

*Geely FC-2*


----------



## 7freedom7

*Geely LTC Taxi*


----------



## 7freedom7

*Geely HL MPV concept*


----------



## 7freedom7

*Geely GE concept*


----------



## mememe

7freedom7 said:


> *Geely LTC Taxi*


this is the licensed production of the london cabs, being manufactured in shanghai for china market, geely is also mulling plan to make an electric version of this london cab too


----------



## mememe

Geely launches self-developed driving safety system

September 19, 2008


Shanghai, September 19 (Gasgoo.com) Privately-owned Chinese carmaker Zhejiang Geely Holdings Group has launched its self-developed driving safety technology, namely the blowout monitoring and braking system (BMBS), which can rival and even replace the tire pressure monitoring system (TPMS) of the United States, reported xinhuanet.com today. 

The BMBS combines the machinery, computing, electronic control and hydraulic control, and can monitor tire pressure on a real-time basis, alert drivers of the changes, and brake the vehicle proactively, thus ensuring driving safety in the event of a tire blowout. The technology has been put to the test for many times and has been proven of great significance to the automobile industry.

Compared with the widely used U.S. standard TPMS, which is an electronic system designed to monitor the air pressure inside all the pneumatic tires on a motor vehicle, Geely's BMBS system features the proactive intelligent technology for the system to apply the brake automatically 3-5 "life and death" seconds before the driver responds to the tire blowup, thus minimizing possible blowout-caused risks.

In addition to all functions of TPMS and ABS (anti-lock brake system) it can perform, Geely's BMBS uses real-time monitoring of tire pressure and begins braking to allow the vehicle to continue in the direction the driver is trying to steer while gradually reducing speed. The technology has been mounted on police vehicles and fleet vehicles in China. 

http://www.gasgoo.com/auto-news/1007802/Geely-launches-self-developed-driving-safety-system.html


----------



## mememe

geely NL concept:


----------



## mememe

Scion said:


> More on the sexy Geely GT


there is rumour that this will go into production in the next 18 months but this was never confirmed.


----------



## mememe

7freedom7 said:


> *Geely F3-E*


this is another electric concept by geely

extrad pic


----------



## GTR22

Geely has some interesting designs, seems to be the one going the extra mile. Brilliance, BYD they still look cheap and uninspired. Rowoe seems kinda weird looking but, Chinese auto makers are getting there, only if the crash tests and reliabilty were better, then they can start importing.


----------



## He Named Thor

mememe said:


> ja almost everyone on the chinese auto sites recognised this when the pictures first came out but toyota never bother to say anything


From what I've heard the courts in China always judge in favor of the Chinese company, so what would be the point in trying to persue the matter. Just a waste of cash.


----------



## YelloPerilo

He Named Thor said:


> From what I've heard the courts in China always judge in favor of the Chinese company, so what would be the point in trying to persue the matter. Just a waste of cash.



German companies complain that US courts are always judging in favour of US companies. What is your point?


----------



## goschio

7freedom7 said:


> *Geely LTC Taxi*


OMG, that is an ugly car. hno:


----------



## 7freedom7

goschio said:


> OMG, that is an ugly car. hno:


however you can see it anywhere in London


----------



## 7freedom7

*Chery A3 hatchback is spotted in Anhui province*


----------



## 7freedom7

*GWM 2009 Hover 2.5tci*


----------



## VikramRao

I can see myself buying a Chinese built car, not right away but in a decade or so. The Chinese are finding their own design grove, though alot seems to be rip offs, major manufacturers like roewe and geely seem to be spending alot of money from an r&d and a quality standpoint. Im Indian and from India, it will only be Tata, Mahindra and maybe Force Motors that will be serious players, but their designs and quality seem to be a decade behind the Chinese. Good thread, very interesting read on comments.


----------



## mememe

chery faira jj


----------



## 7freedom7

deleted


----------



## GTR22

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ YARIS or VITZ!









When will Great Wall LEARN!???


----------



## mememe

chery a5 hybrid tested out in germany


----------



## mememe

GTR22 said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ YARIS or VITZ!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When will Great Wall LEARN!???


we don't know yet most of gwm (great wall motors) lineups now are copies except for the hover suv (which the best selling suv in china right now) they said they are working on a new models including a luxury range and cooperating with chrysler but i bet the copperation with chrysler will soon break down.


----------



## 7freedom7

*Chery V5 on the streets*


----------



## He Named Thor

That's a nice MPV. The rear is a little Mazda 5-ish but otherwise very nice.


----------



## mememe

FAW besturn 70 hybrid version 


This is the hybrid version









Using a 1.5 liter four-cylinder engine, water-cooled permanent magnet motor and 288 volt nickel metal hydride battery pack, the hybrid can accelerate from 0-100 kilometers per hour (62 miles per hour) in 12.5 seconds. Emissions are reduced by 31.8 percent while gasoline consumption is cut by 42.8 percent, it will be released before the end of 2009


----------



## 7freedom7

*SAIC Roewe 550D*


----------



## 7freedom7

*JAC Tongyue 1.3MT*


----------



## VikramRao

7freedom7 said:


> *SAIC Roewe 550D*


Wow, this car looks pretty damn good, certainly an improvement over the shit they first got from England (Rover). Good job...now only sell that car in the States...Id line up to buy one.


----------



## 7freedom7

*Geely FC-3 Hatchback spotted on the street*


----------



## 7freedom7

VikramRao said:


> Wow, this car looks pretty damn good, certainly an improvement over the shit they first got from England (Rover). Good job...now only sell that car in the States...Id line up to buy one.


this kind of car has been sold in South America but not right now in US, maybe several years later, SAIC needs to expand and enrich its product line to prepare for the surviving in the fierce US market competition


----------



## mememe

7freedom7 said:


> *Geely FC-2 Hatchback spotted on the street*


This is FC-3 that was shown in this year auto show not FC-2


----------



## 7freedom7

mememe said:


> This is FC-3 that was shown in this year auto show not FC-2


thanks, I have modified it


----------



## mememe

mememe said:


> Chery A13 (STORM 2)


testing out


----------



## googleabcd

i am interested in the electrical car produced by BYD, any pics?


----------



## 7freedom7

*Chery STORM 2 hatchback*


----------



## 7freedom7

*several late Geely FC-2 pics*




















>


----------



## 7freedom7

*JAC BMPV *


----------



## comrade7

Is it true that in China (or maybe some of the larger cities) you have to have kind of a special permission to buy (or register) a car?


----------



## 7freedom7

comrade7 said:


> Is it true that in China (or maybe some of the larger cities) you have to have kind of a special permission to buy (or register) a car?


not right now, but soon in Beijing city there will be a law(maybe a tax bill on the licenses of vehicles) to be enacted to impose the quantity limitation, apart from beijing, Shanghai has already impose an extra tax on new cars.


----------



## 7freedom7

*Brilliance Junjie Wagon spotted on the street of Beijing*


----------



## googleabcd

7freedom7 said:


> not right now, but soon in Beijing city there will be a law(maybe a tax bill on the licenses of vehicles) to be enacted to impose the quantity limitation, apart from beijing, Shanghai has already impose an extra tax on new cars.


Beijing already has 4 million of cars, it is really enough....


----------



## mememe

7freedom7 said:


> *Brilliance Junjie Wagon spotted on the street of Beijing*


----------



## mememe

googleabcd said:


> Beijing already has 4 million of cars, it is really enough....


already more than 5 millions and on it way to 6 millions


----------



## 7freedom7

*Brilliance Kubao GT*


----------



## 7freedom7

*SAIC MG6 (BASED ON Roewe 550 hatchback version)*


----------



## 7freedom7

*Chery Qilin 5 MPV spyshot*


----------



## 7freedom7

*FAW Besturn 50 spyshot*


----------



## mememe

*Brilliance to launch BS6 Hybrid at Guangzhou Auto Show*.



Brilliance Auto are set to launch their BS6 hybrid auto at the Guangzhou Auto Show later this month according to press reports.

The Briliance BS6 is a mixture of 1.8Turbo injection, and nickel hydrogen batteries, which combine together to cut fuel use by an impressive 35%. Fuel consumption on a standard Brilliance BS6 1.8T is said to between 6.2-7.6l per 100km (37 to 30mpg), so the hybrid version looks like it will save a lot of fuel! In 2009/10 Brilliance also plan to produce a plug-in hybrid for home charging.

Currently, the BS6 1.8T ‘Administration Specification’ is priced at a hefty 190,000rmb, so we doubt the hybrid version is going to be much cheaper, unless of course, its not as high as spec. 










source: China Car Times


----------



## 7freedom7

*the last Chery A6 spyshot*






















































7freedom7 said:


> *Chery A6 (or B21, depended on market) latest spy photos in US*


----------



## 7freedom7

*Geely FC-2 the newest spy photos* (FC-2 is a sedan, FC-3 is a hatchback variant of it)





































7freedom7 said:


> *Geely FC-3 Hatchback spotted on the street*


----------



## 7freedom7

*Chery M14 *


----------



## 7freedom7

*Geely Panda 1.3MT*


----------



## atoom

Geely panda has passed C-NCAP and wins 4 safe-star rating





















7freedom7 said:


> *Geely Panda 1.3MT*


----------



## atoom

More Chery M14 pics




























































































7freedom7 said:


> *Chery M14 *


----------



## mememe

there will be 2 engine choices for the M14











one is 1.6 liter 87kw engine










the other is 2.0 liter turbocharged 144kw engine


----------



## 7freedom7

*Guangzhou (Canton) Autos Expo 2008*


----------



## VikramRao

Im very surprised that there are so man new models coming out, each one better then the next. But is there is market for so much new stuff ? specially now with the economic downturn ? Can someone tell me who is the strongest domestic Chinese player ?


----------



## YelloPerilo

^^

It was million, not billion.


----------



## Substructure

Detroit: Beware the 'Red Dragon'

New York, NY -- Financial expert Mitchell Clark (..) warned Detroit that the low-cost structure and battery expertise of Chinese car manufacturers would make "competing a real challenge" for the Big Three(..).

In his report released today, Clark discusses a new Chinese-built plug-in hybrid car, stating, "This vehicle is expected to sell for about 149,800 yuan, or approximately *$22,000* in U.S. dollars." (..) The Volt is expected to hit the marketplace with a price tag of around *$40,000*. This is the makings of a real problem."

Full article here : http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=19969


----------



## mememe

Substructure said:


> Detroit: Beware the 'Red Dragon'
> 
> New York, NY -- Financial expert Mitchell Clark (..) warned Detroit that the low-cost structure and battery expertise of Chinese car manufacturers would make "competing a real challenge" for the Big Three(..).
> 
> In his report released today, Clark discusses a new Chinese-built plug-in hybrid car, stating, "This vehicle is expected to sell for about 149,800 yuan, or approximately *$22,000* in U.S. dollars." (..) The Volt is expected to hit the marketplace with a price tag of around *$40,000*. This is the makings of a real problem."
> 
> Full article here : http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=19969


lol no need to panik the BYD plug in hybrid (on previous page) only on sale in china now and that is the price in china the export price is still unkown, the Volt and the BYD electric hybrid both need time and testing coz this is still new technology i think many journalists like from BBC and businessweek test drove the car 

some info about the BYD plug in hybrid (the previous generation corolla lookalike on previous page)

According to reports, on one electric charge, the BYD F3 DM can travel for 100km. Once the car is out of juice a 1.3l engine seamlessly kicks in and you can go on your way again. Whilst the 1.3l engine is in use, charging of BYD’s self made iron batteries begins. If the F3 DM doesnt get a full charge whilst under engine power, then it can be plugged in at the owners home, or place of work to fully juice up the car. The electric motor is a 75kw model, which can easily power the car upto a top speed of 150kph. The batteries are good for upto 2000 charges, but will begin to depreciate afterwards, however, the batteries are good for around 4000 charges. If BYD goes ahead with its ‘electric filling station’ plans, which could see an ‘electric pump’ at every traditional gas station, then the BYD F3 DM could be recharged by 50% within 10 minutes. On a traditional home or business electricity supply, the BYD F3 DM will need around 9 hours to fully charge up.

http://feedroom.businessweek.com/?skin=oneclip&fr_story=a9bb57fe7112274dff061f0683489688197bf0f1


----------



## Substructure

Actually, I don't endorse this article's opinion, as I think this is very good news. We need electric cars, so if China can build them sooner and cheaper than their US/Euro counterparts, it's more than welcomed.
Japan has introduced cheap and innovative models, why not China ? Sure, that may kill GM for good, but who cares ? The common good matters more than a prehistorical company.


----------



## Huhu

YelloPerilo said:


> ^^
> 
> It was million, not billion.


My bad.


----------



## 7freedom7

*More Geely FC-2 Pics, FC-2 being tested on the Qinghai-Tibet Plateau, China*


----------



## 7freedom7

*The recent C-NCAP performance*

























VM new Bora - 5 stars

















Chery A3 - 5 stars

















Benz C-class - 5 stars

















Roewe 550 - 5 stars









JAC Bingyue - 3 stars









Zoty 2008 - 3 stars


----------



## The other Dude

hm i just dont like the asian car style, some are nice, but they need to defind their own style. they need to be more clench. design something sexy and fresh ;-)


----------



## mememe

7freedom7 said:


> *The recent C-NCAP performance*


one of the pic Benz c-class is not showing there i fix it here












C-NCAP test center announced the result of Chery A3

Front impact:11.22 points
side impact:16 points
40% offset front impact:15.03 points

plus the addtional 3 points for safety equipments, the total score is 45.3

So A3 has become the first 5-star model from Chinese home-grown brands along with the SAIC Roewe 550


























]


chery older models such as QQ and A5 got only 2 stars and 3 stars respectively in previous C-NCAP tests
chery A3 is chery latest model introduced in end of september this year

chery A3




































other results in this new test
Mercedes C class : 47.8
Roewe 550 : 45.5
VW Bora : 47.2


----------



## Get Smart

good to see the Chinese car manufacturer taking the crash test safety seriously. previously the chinese cars had appaling safety features


----------



## Wallaroo

oliver999 said:


> the cars i post on this tread are totally chinese design, and independant factory without foreign capital.


The 4X4s and the limo looks exactly like american cars. Why are they copying ugly american car design so much?


----------



## AdamChobits

Substructure said:


> Actually, I don't endorse this article's opinion, as I think this is very good news. We need electric cars, so if China can build them sooner and cheaper than their *US/Euro* counterparts, it's more than welcomed.
> Japan has introduced cheap and innovative models, why not China ? Sure, that may kill GM for good, but who cares ? The common good matters more than a prehistorical company.



Please, don't put in the same group American and European cars hno:


----------



## Huhu

^^ Lol :lol:


Wallaroo said:


> The 4X4s and the limo looks exactly like american cars. Why are they copying ugly american car design so much?


FYI, GM is one of the leading car companies in China in terms of market share. GM's Buick brand does extremely well.


----------



## mememe

the most recent updated list of C-ncap tests :


----------



## mememe

Huhu said:


> ^^ Lol :lol:
> 
> FYI, GM is one of the leading car companies in China in terms of market share. GM's Buick brand does extremely well.


yes it is for now but with the rise in popularity of japanese cars and products in china the future market share of GM in china will look very uncertain, like Ford was in the top 10 in China before but suddenly it dropped out of the top 10 and Chinese BYD is zooming past many its competiters in just in a few recent months even i don't understand how they did it. the only hybrid players in china now is byd F3DM and Toyota prius and we still need to see how this hybrid game is taking its course in china.


----------



## Northern Lotus

I have just read that FAW has exported three models to Mexico, the first Chinese made cars to North America. Anyone has any pictures of these models? I believe two of them are F1 and F4.


----------



## 7freedom7

7freedom7 said:


> *More Geely FC-2 Pics, FC-2 being tested on the Qinghai-Tibet Plateau, China*


----------



## mememe

Northern Lotus said:


> I have just read that FAW has exported three models to Mexico, the first Chinese made cars to North America. Anyone has any pictures of these models? I believe two of them are F1 and F4.


F4 sedan 








F1 hatchback

































the third one is the F5. FAW is now building a factory in Mexico.


----------



## mememe

BYD e6 at the North American International Auto Show Monday, Jan. 12, 2009, in Detroit



> PRESS RELEASE
> 
> 2009 BYD e6
> 
> As the latest star in a rapidly expanding portfolio of green, high-tech products, the all-new BYD e6 electric vehicle is being unveiled at the 2009 North American International Auto Show in Detroit. The five-passenger e6 will be marketed as a family-oriented crossover vehicle.
> 
> The pure-electric e6 features BYD's revolutionary battery technology - what we call the Fe battery. The range per charge is expected to be a remarkable 249mi (400km). Performance is surprisingly brisk, with 0-60mph (0-100km/h) acceleration in less than 8 seconds and a projected top speed of 100mph (160km/h).
> 
> The Right Size
> What sets the e6 apart from other pure electric vehicles are its size and performance. With current battery capacity limited, most other manufacturers have elected to focus on small, lightweight EVs that stress efficiency over performance and range.
> 
> BYD, as a young brand with a rich history of IT development and cutting-edge battery R&D, has the drive and extroverted personality to take an unconventional approach and manufacture cars that embody the company's slogan, Build Your Dreams. That's the spirit and underlying philosophy behind the e6.
> 
> The high-tech e6 boasts the exterior dimensions of a typical American family vehicle, with ample interior space that provides substantial legroom and headroom for passengers, plus a generous luggage compartment. The e6 measures 179.3 inches (4554mm) long, 71.7 inches (1822mm) wide and 64.2 inches (1630mm) tall.
> 
> Convenient and Eco-Friendly
> The pure-electric e6 is environmentally friendly, eliminating toxic emissions and greenhouse gases while driving. BYD's new Fe battery takes this "green" philosophy a step further: All chemical substances used in the battery can be recycled.
> 
> And while the range of many electric vehicles is restricted by their battery capacity, making it inconvenient to travel long distances, the BYD e6, with its high-efficiency Fe battery, can go up to 249 miles (400km) on a single charge. That makes the e6 suitable for daily commutes, around-town chores and even long journeys.
> 
> The Fe battery pack in the e6 can be quick-charged to 50 percent of itscapacity in 10 minutes, and 100 percent of its capacity in 60 minutes.
> 
> 
> e6 SPECIFICATIONS
> 
> Length in (mm)
> 179.3 (4554)
> 
> Width in (mm)
> 71.7 (1822)
> 
> Height in (mm)
> 64.2 (1630)
> 
> Wheelbase in (mm)
> 111.4 (2830)
> 
> Curb Weight lb (kg)
> 4453 (2020)
> 
> Output hp (kw)
> 268 (200)
> 
> Torque lb-ft (Nm)
> 406 (550 )
> 
> Range mi (km)
> 249 (400)
> 
> 0-60mph Acceleration (sec)
> < 8s
> 
> Top Speed mph (kph)
> 100 (160)
> 
> Recharge Time (quick charge)
> 50% in 10min


http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/12/detroit-2009-byd-e6-is-worlds-first-production-dual-mode-plug/





























































































BYD said this vehicle will go into production this year 2009 in China.


----------



## 7freedom7

Brilliance FRV Crossover


----------



## 7freedom7

Greatwall Mini SUV


----------



## 7freedom7

the Chery A3 sedan accident


----------



## 7freedom7

another accident


----------



## 7freedom7

Airbus A380 VS Chery QQ


----------



## Mateusz

Some of these cars seems to be just a rip off from other brands... :nuts:

They don't look too quality inside too.


----------



## thun

^^
Right. The Great Wall Mini SUV back looks like a Nissan Quote or a Fiat Panda.
What I'm asking myself is how long it will be untill Audi will protest because they copied their model name A3... Even the typo of the "3" is almost the same. ;D


----------



## mememe

thun said:


> ^^
> Right. The Great Wall Mini SUV back looks like a Nissan Quote or a Fiat Panda.
> What I'm asking myself is how long it will be untill Audi will protest because they copied their model name A3... Even the typo of the "3" is almost the same. ;D


yup and funny enough that is true, Great Wall Motors just does not know the right direction to take while the chinese companies like chery and geely are trying slowly to shed off the old image, GWM is still very adamant with the rampant copying, even the BYD (who is "addicted" to Toyota designs) got their own hybrid and electric technology to boast, great wall motors really have nothing to make it stand out except for their Hover SUV model which again is "inspired" by isuzu axiom with some modifications and for some reason that Hover SUV is selling like hot cakes in china just right behind Honda CRV. lol and the chery A3 problem drew little attention since audi has no qualms about this probably because 2 cars just look too different :lol:


----------



## mememe

The Karry ViewSonic of Chery (Chery 'bread vans' )














































Chery Karry range target around third tier farmers cities, and to foreign developing markets.


----------



## mememe

mememe said:


> http://uk.reuters.com/article/gover...6120090219?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0
> 
> *Chery Auto unveils first self-made electric car*
> 
> 
> SHANGHAI, Feb 19 (Reuters) - China's Chery Automobile said on Thursday it has rolled out its first self-developed electric car, becoming the second home-grown car maker to tap potential demand for clean energy cars.
> 
> The model, known as S18, is capable of going as far as 150 kilometers on electricity when fully charged, with a maximum speed of 120 kilometres per hour, Chery said in a statement.
> 
> Chery uses iron-phosphate-based lithium-ion batteries for S18, which can be fully charged in 4 to 6 hours and 80 percent charged in half an hour, it said.
> 
> The company did not say when it would start mass production of the model or whether it had secured firm orders.
> 
> BYD Auto, subsidiary of rechargeable battery maker BYD Co (1211.HK), launched its plug-in hybrid car F3DM in China late last year.
> 
> Henry Li, general manager of BYD Auto's export trade division, told Reuters in October that the firm has signed up 10 distributors for the plug-in hybrid car in Europe ahead of its targeted entry into that market in 2010.
> 
> BYD, in which a unit of U.S. billionaire investor Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Inc (BRKa.N) has committed to pay $230 million for a 10 percent stake, is scheduled to launch its first all-electric car, the E6, in China in the second half of 2009, Li added.
> 
> Beijing unveiled a plan earlier this month to subsidise the purchase of clean-energy vehicles for public transport fleets in 13 cities to help its automobile industry develop green technology. [ID:nSHA23857].
> 
> The trial scheme will promote the use of electric, hybrid and fuel-cell vehicles by public transport operators, taxi firms and postal and sanitary services.
> 
> Subsidies will be based on the gap in prices between more energy-efficient vehicles and those with traditional engines,, with subsidies running up to 600,000 yuan on a fuel cell powered large commercial bus.
> 
> SAIC Motor Corp (600104.SS), China's biggest auto maker, said in November it would set up a venture with its state-owned parent to invest 2 billion yuan ($293 million) to develop hybrid and electric vehicles



http://news.alibaba.com/article/det...chery-auto-launches-hybrid-car-offensive.html

*Chery Auto launches hybrid-car offensive *

Shanghai, March 2 (Gasgoo.com) Not long after unveiling its first electric car called the S18, China's Chery Auto said it plans to launch two more hybrid cars this year to tap into the growing hybrid car market, reported Shanghai Securities News. 

An unnamed Chery engineer told the newspaper that Chery Auto would launch an A5 hybrid car this year and an A3 hybrid in 2010. Also a Tiggo-based hybrid SUV model and a QQ-based pure electric model are under development though no timeline was set for their launch. 

All of the electric motors and hybrid systems on these future models are developed by supplier Ricardo, a world leading automotive consultance firm employing over 1,700 people all around the world. 

Chery Auto unveiled a 4-door 5-seat car all electric car on January 20, which has a 93 mile driving range, and a top speed of 75 mph. It uses a 336 40 amp-hour lithium-ion phosphate and has a 40 kw motor. 

This makes Chery the 2nd Chinese manufacturer to unveil an electric car after BYD, who unveiled its plug-in hybrid BYD F3DM in December 2008.


----------



## 7freedom7

thun said:


> ^^
> Right. The Great Wall Mini SUV back looks like a Nissan Quote or a Fiat Panda.
> What I'm asking myself is how long it will be untill Audi will protest because they copied their model name A3... Even the typo of the "3" is almost the same. ;D


For a long time it had seemed to Great Wall that it's a better way to design its own products by borrowing directly the design and ispiration from other top auto makers. Great Wall first designed its cars by itself, but the market performance was not satisfied, BYD was in the case as well. As consumers prefer to the latest and beautiful design and nice cars, any auto company will design and produce its cars according to the demand. For these small automakers, borrowing design is the lowest-risk way to catch up as japanese copied european cars in 60s and korean copied japanese cars in 90s and even now.


----------



## 7freedom7

Great Wall CoolBear


----------



## thun

Scion xB, anyone...? 
Taking inspiration from successful competitors is legimitate, of course. You simply can't start from the scratch as it would probably confuse your clients. The question is where to draw the line between inspiration and copying (which is just illegal by any means).
I can remember reports in European media about Chinese manufacturers copying the designs of Smart and the old BMW X5 among others. The Western manufacturers of course went to court (and at least, nowadays these cheap copies can't be exportet to Europe), but Chinese courts don't give them right (which regarding Western standards is scandalous).


----------



## He Named Thor

I like the BMW grill on the van next to that Scion.


----------



## Gag Halfrunt

7freedom7 said:


> For these small automakers, borrowing design is the lowest-risk way to catch up as japanese copied european cars in 60s and korean copied japanese cars in 90s and even now.


But South Korean manufacturers had licensing agreements with foreign companies; for instance, Hyundai with Mitsubishi and Kia with Mazda. Daewoo made GM designs under licence and was eventually acquired by GM (the car division, that is; GM did not buy the truck or bus divisions).


----------



## Tri-ring

7freedom7 said:


> For these small automakers, borrowing design is the lowest-risk way to catch up as japanese copied european cars in 60s and korean copied japanese cars in 90s and even now.


I really do not know of any Japanese car in the 60~80's that off right copied a design from another European model.
I believe some Japanese manufacturers bought designs from famous Italian carrozzerias like Pinifarina and/or Giorgetto Giugiaro but I do not remember of any cars bluntly copying a design of another car.


----------



## thun

He Named Thor said:


> I like the BMW grill on the van next to that Scion.


That's what I'm talking about. Copying the main design of a third brand (which obviously has much more tradition and reputation) in order to try to sell some more cars is hardly "learning from competitiors." :banana::bash: It's just illegal, stupid and causes the bad reputation of Chinese car industry abroad.
Almost anywhere else, this manufacturer would have to pay very high penalties...


----------



## He Named Thor

thun said:


> That's what I'm talking about. Copying the main design of a third brand (which obviously has much more tradition and reputation) in order to try to sell some more cars is hardly "learning from competitiors." :banana::bash: It's just illegal, stupid and causes the bad reputation of Chinese car industry abroad.
> Almost anywhere else, this manufacturer would have to pay very high penalties...


Borrowing popular design cues is one thing, but I'd put money down that says at least half of the parts in that Scion are interchangeable with the real thing.

I would be interested in driving that and the real thing back to back, just to see how close they really are underneath.


----------



## mememe

thun said:


> That's what I'm talking about. Copying the main design of a third brand (which obviously has much more tradition and reputation) in order to try to sell some more cars is hardly "learning from competitiors." :banana::bash: It's just illegal, stupid and causes the bad reputation of Chinese car industry abroad.
> Almost anywhere else, this manufacturer would have to pay very high penalties...


sad but true and only a handful of chinese companies (not just cars) understand the consequences, people like roewe (which is owned by saic) and brilliance motors (working for bmw and learning one or two thing from bmw) undersand copying is a road to nowhere and focus on their own stuff. chery and geely after plenty of lawsuits and backlashes, starting to understan the problem too but it is still a long and painful journey.


----------



## mememe

Chery S16


----------



## mememe

geely said they will launch this car in china in 2010

Geely CE 



























geely suv rumoured to be out this year in china.


----------



## He Named Thor

Someone want to explain the Riich G6? What type of market is it aiming for, what's it cost, what is it's competiton, etc? 

The exterior looks very nice. The interior looks like an attempt to take on Mercedes but not very well.


----------



## mememe

He Named Thor said:


> Someone want to explain the Riich G6? What type of market is it aiming for, what's it cost, what is it's competiton, etc?
> 
> The exterior looks very nice. The interior looks like an attempt to take on Mercedes but not very well.


from a chinese auto site.



> Chery Automobile, a fast-growing Chinese car manufacturer announced the launch of two new sub-brands in China.
> 
> The two new brands are: Riich which is for high-end, luxury automobile and Rely which will market business cars.
> 
> At the launch ceremony the first Riich model was also shown. Called the G6 it is a 5-meter long sedan, which is powered by Chery's self-developed, EU4-compliant gasoline engines. There's a smaller, four-cylinder turbocharged 2.0-liter unit, capable of 125 kW @ 5500 and a bigger, 3.0-liter V6 with 143 kW @ 5500 rpm.
> 
> Suspension is with double wishbones front and multi-link at the rar, with adjustable dampers. Bi-xenon headlights, LED taillights, a slew of airbags and a long list of standard features (TPMS, rear-view camera, ventilated disc brakes, electrically adjusted seats and mirrors etc.) indicate that Chery is serious in its intent on creating a worthy competitor to the likes of BMW and Audi.
> 
> Chery now has got four brands under its belt. In addition to Chery, Riich and Rely there's Karry which is being used for light commercial vehicles.


so basically the Riich brand is aiming to become China’s first premier range of automobiles which target government and business people, the car is expected to go on sale in the second half of this year with a price tag of between 200,000 yuan and 300,000 yuan ($29,260 to $43,890).

this is chery Karry sub-brand minivan Viewsonic and already made its debut


----------



## 7freedom7

mememe said:


> from a chinese auto site.
> 
> 
> this is chery Karry sub-brand minivan Viewsonic and already made its debut


It's another model Karry minivan


----------



## mememe

7freedom7 said:


> It's another model Karry minivan


uh huh this is chery v2 but i don't think its belong to the karry sub brand it is also known as the Riich 2


----------



## 7freedom7

mememe said:


> uh huh this is chery v2 but i don't think its belong to the karry sub brand it is also known as the Riich 2


Yes, it was, but at present, it is called Youya which is one product under Karry brand


----------



## Sen

lol, riich? wtf..I would never buy a car called riich...


----------



## camicin

I will buy any car that's good even if it's called pooor.


----------



## UD2

I hope all you lingustics realize that Riich is prounced REIK, and not reech.

thanks.


----------



## Sen

UD2 said:


> I hope all you lingustics realize that Riich is prounced REIK, and not reech.
> 
> thanks.


it probably is...but still...most people are gonna associate it with rich, and I bet that's why they came up with that name too...

tacky...


----------



## mememe

Geely China Dragon 
(launching this month in China)


----------



## 7freedom7

I'm sorry....


----------



## UD2

mememe said:


> Geely China Dragon
> (launching this month in China)


A design that doesn't deserve its name.


----------



## infinity88

^^^^

The black stuff does look like Dragon nose though.


----------



## alex_zebe

That's like a Merc SLK from the front, a first gen Megane Coupe from the sides and a Ford StreetKa from the back...


----------



## mememe

alex_zebe said:


> That's like a Merc SLK from the front, a first gen Megane Coupe from the sides and a Ford StreetKa from the back...












how interesting the picture of this car was around since last year and your the first to say this, the only thing people complain about this car is the exhaust pipes.


----------



## mememe

Great Wall will present at the Auto Shanghai 2009 Motor Show the second electric Kulla Concept after the first Kulla Concept which was presented at the 2008 Beijing Auto Show last year.


----------



## Phoenix-Reborn

I Love this tread


----------



## 7freedom7

Chery Riich G5(to launch in the last quarter of this year)


----------



## 7freedom7

more pics about JAC new sedan


----------



## 7freedom7

Geely new SUV (GX718) spotted in Shanghai


----------



## amidcars

Wow...these are realy one of those wonderful cars....but many have Mercidies/BMW touch in them one have almost copied mercidies...however every rising automobile industry copies and there is nothing wrong with it I think ......But tell me one thing ...how are these cars doing aborad ? the prices are very less ...this means they must have a good market abroad provided their quality is good


----------



## mememe

amidcars said:


> Wow...these are realy one of those wonderful cars....but many have Mercidies/BMW touch in them one have almost copied mercidies...however every rising automobile industry copies and there is nothing wrong with it I think ......But tell me one thing ...how are these cars doing aborad ? the prices are very less ...this means they must have a good market abroad provided their quality is good


people like chery and geely yes they do have low price but brilliance :nono: brilliance is a very new company but because they are BMW partner in china so you can see the influence in their car design, they even do a good job with the interior c.f to other chinese makers, in regards to quality and safety, it is hard to say..brilliance is definitely learning one or two things from working with BMW and their past fiasco, chery and geely are trying really hard to shake off the old image like installing all safety equipments in their new lineups, like the chery A3 possibly chery latest model unveiled in sept 2008 did well in chinese Ncap 5 stars compared to before hardly any chinese cars can even get over 3 stars in chinese ncap. abroad, chery and geely do have their own market, like russia, some latin american countries, singapore, south africa, some other eastern european countries, some chery SUV like the Tiggo also get rebadged and sold in Italy and doing ok. the first wave of chinese cars export is not without hardship, problem was there and still there but chery and geely are still very committed to expanding overseas either export or planning to build factories like in thailand, turkey, mexico.

ps dont be surprised though if you think the Roewe R95L is similar to the Mercedes as i already explained it above.


----------



## 7freedom7

*GW's new monster*

SUV H7


----------



## 7freedom7

suv CS6


----------



## Tri-ring

One advice I can make to the PRC car industry is to integrate emerging onboard PC with car-man interface.
There are many onboard one-chip computers on a car, some critical like engine/fuel control some not so important like the radio, seat adjustment memory/control, GPS, trip monitor,etc.
The present generic CPU has enough calculating capability to integrate most of the non-essencial systems into one system but most western auto companies are hesitant to do so because of traditional design based on "Kaizen" methodology.


----------



## tiger

CHANA's e301(concept)


----------



## tiger

CHANA's sales in volume in the first quarter is 207,505, up 41.59%(joint ventures with Ford, Mazda, Volvo and Suzuki excluded). I think it's already No.1 of Chinese branded passenger auto makers.


----------



## 7freedom7

tiger said:


> CHANA's sales in volume in the first quarter is 207,505, up 41.59%(joint ventures with Ford, Mazda, Volvo and Suzuki excluded). I think it's already No.1 of Chinese branded passenger auto makers.


Yes, thanks to the stimulus package in rural areas which takes significant effect, and yet most of them are minivans and benben, CHANA needs to put more 1.5-2.4L engine models soon into 1st and 2nd tier city markets to catch up Chery, Geely, BYD and Brilliance, however CHANA has been moving forward fast!


CHANA YX 1.5MT



























CHANA ZX 2.0AT


----------



## tiger

Indeed! but CHANA's minivan is not at all less profitable than Chery or Geely's auto models. The sedan YX is already better sold than Chery's A3, not exactly in the same segment though.


----------



## 7freedom7

tiger said:


> Indeed! but CHANA's minivan is not at all less profitable than Chery or Geely's auto models. The sedan YX is already better sold than Chery's A3, not exactly in the same segment though.


Oh really? Good job Chana, it's a marvelous perfomance (Speaking of A3, 5288 units of it have been sold in March, it has 60% month-over-month increase in sales during the 1st quarter of this year), Does Chana have a plan to bid for Volvo? IMO, Chana should have an attempt of this kind as it has been regarded as the big 4 by the Country.


----------



## tiger

YX's order nationawide in half a month after its official show is already more than 3000. The problem for YX is the limit of production capacity in the begining.

As for the bid for Volvo, the answer of Chana is "nothing is impossible" but who knows?


----------



## atoom

*Chery A3 sedan und hatchback*


----------



## monkey1

tiger said:


> CHANA's e301(concept)


I like this concept.:applause:


----------



## Kosovar

why these chinese car,s all of them they look like stolen design from other autocompanie, it seems that chinnese designer don't have a idea how to make good on original one thx


----------



## mememe

^^ cough.. ok general perception's there, its hard to go away ok on many pages back there are alot of "lookalikes" but calling all the cars posted recently by me and other people here "stolen design" is just ridiculous and about some clones in 1 or 2 pages back there are already explanation plz read first and look at the pictures carefuly before asking making sily questions and coments. if people come to this thread and really want to ask questions sincerly i will try to answer them to the best of my ability but making generalisation and not bother looking like the dude above is really not helping.


----------



## mememe

Great Wall CHC011 Concept


----------



## 7freedom7

Kosovar said:


> why these chinese car,s all of them they look like stolen design from other autocompanie, it seems that chinnese designer don't have a idea how to make good on original one thx


I'm sorry for your ban and know you can't reply anymore but I have to say maybe you shouldn't keep out of the whole situation with the global auto industry while you evaluate Chinese auto manufacturers. Just a hint, owing to the market for technology policy China shares its domestic automobile market with foreign auto companies for importing advanced auto designing and manufacturing technologies and several Chinese auto makers has been improving upon them, hence you might find some similarities on the designing trend but the fact is that most of products on the whole are different, if you intend to make a fuss, please think first why there aren't any lawsuits about what you said such as "stolen design" in China, Thx


----------



## 7freedom7

DFM (Dong Feng Motor) JingYi TT 1.8T


----------



## 7freedom7

Haima H2 MPV Freema 1.8


----------



## 7freedom7

BYD M6 MPV's first inferior spy picture











>


----------



## GTR22

Freema looks like a cross between a Mazda 3/ Atenza and a Toyota Matrix rear. Even the emblem looks like Mazda's


----------



## 7freedom7

GTR22 said:


> Freema looks like a cross between a Mazda 3/ Atenza and a Toyota Matrix rear. Even the emblem looks like Mazda's


Haima means Hainan Mazda, it was a joint venture started by FAW and Mazada


----------



## 7freedom7

Changfeng CS7 SUV art version and sports version


----------



## UD2

good try for a first car design. But many areas are lacking. Most obviously. That big knob that's supposed to control the audios. The inward facing buttons doesn't seem to be very functional. Nor do I think it look good.


----------



## tiger

Chana CD101


----------



## conc.man

Roewe 550 sport


----------



## thun

^^
These last two look pretty good, I like the designs! Seems that the Chinese car industry is doing a good progress, at least designwise. Would be interesting what are the technical features and quality of these cars and, most important, how they drive.


And now for something completely different, but unfortunately, this belongs in here, too.

Geely really did it, they copied the Rolls-Royce Phantom and call it "Geely GE". hno:hno:

I personally think that thefts like these guys should be judged. However, I'm pretty sure that they at least won't be able to export this thing to the West.










































Here's the original, the Rolls-Royce Phantom:










Source: German Auto Bild magazine.
You'll also find some interesting photos photos a copied Smart and how these things are produced in backyard shops. :banana:


----------



## 7freedom7

^ there have been varying kinds of attempts to keep pace with the west leading auto manufacturers in Chinese counterparts, you could find some really not bad car designs in there and some clones at the same time, after all it comes down to the results of diverse demands in Chinese auto market and their barren design experience as a new player in auto industry. Geely GE was debutted just before Shanghai Auto Show 2009 two days later, I think it's not a coincidence but Geely's advertising gimmick. and I doubt It will begin mass production even if its quality could parallel Rolls-Royce's.


----------



## thun

^^
I doubt very much that its quality can. However, its a clone and it really doesn't help rising Geelys reputation (and the reputation of Chinese car industry in general) (at least in the West) to produce cheap clones of established competitors' models. Its that easy. Chinese car industry in general will only be able to rise its reputation (still talking about the West, I know that the Chinese demands are different) when its stops to come up with cloned cars at all and massively improves quality and above all safety standards.

Btw., the Brilliance BS4 got 0 stars (= worst result possible, total failure) at the EuroNCAP crash test done by German ADAC (their BS 6 performed that bad as well some years ago). Its said that this will cause that Brilliance has to stop its plans to export to the EU as European consumers won't buy cars which perform that bad in safety, even if its way cheaper than established competitors.


----------



## mememe

thun said:


> ^^
> These last two look pretty good, I like the designs! Seems that the Chinese car industry is doing a good progress, at least designwise. Would be interesting what are the technical features and quality of these cars and, most important, how they drive.
> 
> 
> And now for something completely different, but unfortunately, this belongs in here, too.
> 
> Geely really did it, they copied the Rolls-Royce Phantom and call it "Geely GE". hno:hno:
> 
> I personally think that thefts like these guys should be judged. However, I'm pretty sure that they at least won't be able to export this thing to the West.
> 
> Source: German Auto Bild magazine.
> You'll also find some interesting photos photos a copied Smart and how these things are produced in backyard shops. :banana:


while no denying about this geely clone and alot of people stil dont know why geely do this when they are showing other nice designs this year too
anyway what do u thin about chrysler 300c ?


----------



## mememe

thun said:


> ^^
> I doubt very much that its quality can. However, its a clone and it really doesn't help rising Geelys reputation (and the reputation of Chinese car industry in general) (at least in the West) to produce cheap clones of established competitors' models. Its that easy. Chinese car industry in general will only be able to rise its reputation (still talking about the West, I know that the Chinese demands are different) when its stops to come up with cloned cars at all and massively improves quality and above all safety standards.
> 
> Btw., the Brilliance BS4 got 0 stars (= worst result possible, total failure) at the EuroNCAP crash test done by German ADAC (their BS 6 performed that bad as well some years ago). Its said that this will cause that Brilliance has to stop its plans to export to the EU as European consumers won't buy cars which perform that bad in safety, even if its way cheaper than established competitors.


ye there is many problems with chinese auto industry and only a few look like doing proper job is roewe of saic and brilliance. and about the brilliance bs4 the way adac conducted the test the timing really raised alot of questions so far.like the bs4 went on sale in july 2008 the new euro ncap guidelines unveiled in feb 2009 so is it appropriate to use a fresh 2009 standards to test for a 2008 car and not only that bs4 was one of the very first car adac chose to test and adac said that because of the lack of esp so they took away 3 stars (because originally the bs4 could have got 3 stars based on the old guidelines before feb 2009) its hard for me to explain all but u can just spend little time reading this write by a ethusiast then maybe u see what iam talking about.

http://www.i3china.net/bs4


----------



## mememe

Roewe N1 or Roewe 350

will be at shanghai auto show soon



















The 350 designer is reportedly a very young 21 year old, and has just graduated from college last summer


----------



## mememe

JAC B926


----------



## tiger

mememe said:


> only a few look like doing proper job is roewe of saic and brilliance.


I think both Chana and BYD are far more innovative than these two companies. Chana's research capability is well known to be the best of Chinese auto makers and its engineer institute is ranked the top amongst China's corporation-funded auto R&D facilities. Chana is the leader in commercialising hybrid technology in China whilst the central gov't made a very clear comment that only Chana's hybrid car is reliable after an offcial test during Olympic games on various hybrid cars provided also by several other Chinese car makers including Chery and Geely whose products are very immature. Moreover Chana's hybrid car(Jie Xun or 杰勋) is the second most efficient in saving energy in Chinese market ahead only by Toyota's Prius. 

As for BYD, it's the leader of the plug-in hybrid technology in China.

What's the advantage of roewe or brilliance? Please inform us.


----------



## 7freedom7

thun said:


> ^^
> I doubt very much that its quality can. However, its a clone and it really doesn't help rising Geelys reputation (and the reputation of Chinese car industry in general) (at least in the West) to produce cheap clones of established competitors' models. Its that easy. Chinese car industry in general will only be able to rise its reputation (still talking about the West, I know that the Chinese demands are different) when its stops to come up with cloned cars at all and massively improves quality and above all safety standards.


I personally totally agree with you, but in a general way Chinese auto industry has been notorious because of their quality problems and safety performance test results several years before those cloned X5, Smart and Phantom, so to those Chinese domestic auto manufacturers the most important improvement to make first is to produce more reliable and higher-quality products then the second step is to break away the convention (simple designing or borrowing inspiration for their products) to design their own real both artistic and practical products, for these new players that's the right track to go on, and if I didn't remeber wrongly, VM in the beginning of its development has ever borrowed or drawed some design inspiration from British Austin.

Also, to Chinese auto consumers, it's no secret that their most concern is the price and quality but not the appearance, for example, the most popular foreign and domestic brand cars are respectively 70s' VW Jetta and Chery QQ, so Geely as a company focusing on domestic market has been dying for proving it can produce high-quality and high-end world class products and Geely really doesnt care about foreigner's opinions, in fact, most Chinese consumers care less as well, I find a survey about Geely GE vs Rolls-Royce Phantom on one of the most popular auto websites in China, the result is very interesting.
http://club.autohome.com.cn/pk/index.aspx?pkid=44


----------



## Mateusz

Are these cars more or less affordable for Chinese people ?


----------



## conc.man

Mateusz said:


> Are these cars more or less affordable for Chinese people ?


Depends. SAIC Roewe (SAIC MG is another story) and FAW Besturn are in the same price range and directly compete with foreign brands. 

BYD/Chery/Jeely/Brilliance/JAC/Changan are priced much lower than the same segment cars from foreign brands, the competition is among themselves and some lower priced foreign brands like Hyndai/KIA/Chevrolet. Also, some old generation VW and Citroen still sell with similar price in China.


----------



## mememe

tiger said:


> I think both Chana and BYD are far more innovative than these two companies. Chana's research capability is well known to be the best of Chinese auto makers and its engineer institute is ranked the top amongst China's corporation-funded auto R&D facilities. Chana is the leader in commercialising hybrid technology in China whilst the central gov't made a very clear comment that only Chana's hybrid car is reliable after an offcial test during Olympic games on various hybrid cars provided also by several other Chinese car makers including Chery and Geely whose products are very immature. Moreover Chana's hybrid car(Jie Xun or 杰勋) is the second most efficient in saving energy in Chinese market ahead only by Toyota's Prius.
> 
> As for BYD, it's the leader of the plug-in hybrid technology in China.
> 
> What's the advantage of roewe or brilliance? Please inform us.


chill dude ur right i just forgot to mention chana too technologywise byd is on top in china but designwise :lol:but for some reasons the byd f3 is selling like hot cakes in china pushing away all the foreign brands :nuts: . roewe cars alway look very pleasing, exterior design, interior fitting it did well in c ncap too something that only a very few chinese branded cars can do well even in c ncap. what brilliance can do is quite commendable even that they are very young company, brilliance is one the very few chinese maker that dont seem to carry the stigma of "copying" and their FRV is wonderful. 
btw do you have any news on the chang'an hydrogen internal combustion engine i don't hear anymore about this since 2 year ago. saic at the moment is also doing alot of work on hybrid and electric vehicles.
:cheers:


----------



## mememe

Roewe N1 concept at Shanghai Auto Show 2009 (today)


----------



## mememe

SAIC MG6 at Shanghai Auto Show 2009


----------



## Yakun

changan: (electric)


----------



## Yakun

from sina:
changcheng moter


----------



## zergcerebrates

The MG6 lacks creativity. The side profile looks like a Lexus GS and the rear lights are like BMW 5 series. The Roewe N1 now thats nice. Geely GE well they should be ashamed its an exact ripoff of a Rolls Royce. Whats with Riich logo? So bentley like. UGH! Overall I am glad to see some change in China's automotive design at least many of the companies are trying to be original and not cut and paste designs. Lets hope their quality is good.


----------



## tiger

conc.man said:


> Dude, you sound a homer to me. Changan is no different to other companies who sent some eco-friendly cars to Olympics as a political duty.These showcases amount over 500, almost all main auto companies in China contribute their pieces of cake. Even some of them like Chery/SAIC/FAW/Changan/Dongfeng/Geely/BYD will push bybrid new cars into market recently, it wouldnt change the fact bybrid is more a showcase than real commercial plan for these companies.


^It's a commercial deal instead. Every month there're hundreds of orders for Chana Jiexun therefore there's demand for Hybrid car in China despite limited volume. Of course most of the orders are from the gov't and the companies but that's a real demand anyway. It is expected that the sales of Jiexun will surpass 10 000 next year as it will enter personal consumer market later this year. Chana is the only Chinese auto maker that managed to save 30% fuel by hybrid engine hence it's ignorant to say that Chana is no different.



> As for Hydrogen, Qing Cheng is purely a showcase only appear on autoshow, Changan hasnt got a real car based on this power platform up to now.


I've already said that Chana had delayed the timeframe and it's no longer a priority because it's not really realizable in terms of mass commercialisation in the near future.


----------



## mememe

changcheng = great wall motors
guangqi : guangzhou auto
zhonghua = brilliance


----------



## mememe

presented by Great Wall motors


----------



## 7freedom7

more details of MG 6


----------



## 7freedom7

SAIC Roewe 550RS


----------



## 7freedom7

Geely PandaCross (EX315)


----------



## 7freedom7

Geely's GlEagle MPV GV515


----------



## 7freedom7

Geely's EmGrand MPV EX925


----------



## 7freedom7

Geely's ElEagle MPV GV515


----------



## 7freedom7

Geely's first EmGrand Pickup


----------



## 7freedom7

Geely's Shanghai Englon TX4 Taxi for London


----------



## mememe

great wall Hover H5


----------



## mememe

Great Wall Kulla Electric Concept live @ Auto Shanghai 2009:


----------



## mememe

GTR22 said:


> I really like that MG6, I would love to see that here in the states! As for the Riich nameplate, it seems confused. The outside somewhat does look luxurious but the interior is not so much, just a bunch of woodtrim. Also I'm sure since its supposed to be a luxury segment, I doubt they should but the Chery emblem on the steering wheel. Also change the emblem, it resembles too much to the Bentley one.
> 
> That A0 thing seems like another copy, Yaris/ Aygo styling. While some automakers are learning, others still doing the same. I see MG/Roewe as the top Chinese brand, Chery may be up there in quality too but its like a KIA to me.


chery is still far far away from being like a KIA, chery behaviour this year is very disapointing, confusing new sub brands and lookalike new logos. cheap interior for a new luxury line hno: there's something really wrong with them even a model code for new SUV on display is a ripoff name chery is no fit to lead the chinese auto industry transformation.


----------



## mememe

geely panda cross (or GX3) another derivative of geely Aoo


----------



## 7freedom7

mememe said:


> chery is still far far away from being like a KIA, chery behaviour this year is very disapointing, confusing new sub brands and lookalike new logos. cheap interior for a new luxury line hno: there's something really wrong with them even a model code for new SUV on display is a ripoff name chery is no fit to lead the chinese auto industry transformation.


^ Disappointment and hope always co-exist, luxurious segment as Riich is in, Riich G5 and G6 aren't put into the market segment as high-end as the segment BMW/Benz/Lexus pays attention to, it's reported that G6's rival is probably Mazda 6/Accord/Camry, and G5's is perhaps Roewe550/New Jetta/Mazada 3/corolla, for its price is estimated between 130,000 and 180,000Rmb(link).


----------



## 7freedom7

JAC B15 Heyue


----------



## 7freedom7

thun said:


> @ 7freedom7: No, I don't want to eat a cars interieur. I'm no expert on the field of diluents and it was just a wild guess (because I've never seen such a soft interieur in Western cars), but if they should use something like this, I wouldn't want to sit next to it (even worse in such a small, completely closed space) as these things might tend to evaporate.





thun said:


> No, absolutely not. Atm no Western car industry would have to be afraid of the Chinese. If you can't handle some criticism you're wrong here. ]


Sorry but I have to say you seem to be going around the bend on Chinese auto manufacturers' improvement, for some of your criticism are based on your wild guesses which are hard to convince others. hno:


----------



## 7freedom7

mememe said:


> According to some source the car goes on sale in 2010 i hope geely wil keep the solar panels as in the one on display.


Geely IG is reported that its cost will be controlled within 10,000RMB for mass sale, so I guess the solar panels wont be equiped on it thus


----------



## 7freedom7

mememe said:


> but stil i still want to know what people say about aston martin and chrysler logo, is that behaviour acceptable ?


dont forget Hyundai Rohens, the bottom right one


----------



## 7freedom7

He Named Thor said:


> Oh look, another blatant copy.


Why not say this Renault SUV below is also a blatant copy of it? :nuts: Dont be silly, man, if you make a judgment about whether it's a copy just by the 'similiar' profile side, I have to say you are biased or ignorant. Yes some are copys but this Haima SUV is definitely not


----------



## mememe

Yakun said:


> From sina
> Brilliance EV


The Brilliance EV that Brilliance introduced last week at the Shanghai Auto Show last week is due to be put into production in 2011 according to reports.is widely believed that Brilliance will launch the EV in a mini MPV form based on the popular FRV’s platform. According to information supplied by Brilliance states that the prototype measures (LxWxH) 3719mmX1802X1426 with a wheelbase of 2500mm. The electric drivechain will propel the EV to a top speed of 130kph, and will have a max distance of 140km if driven at 40kph


----------



## tiger

CHANA's sales in volume surpassed Chrysler's in April:banana:

CHANA's sales in volume in April is 79931(joint ventures with Ford, Mazda, Volvo and Suzuki excluded) while Chrysler's sales in volume is 76682 in the same period. 

Another news is that it's likely that CHANA will take over Volvo soon.


----------



## 7freedom7

tiger said:


> CHANA's sales in volume surpassed Chrysler's in April:banana:
> 
> CHANA's sales in volume in April is 79931(joint ventures with Ford, Mazda, Volvo and Suzuki excluded) while Chrysler's sales in volume is 76682 in the same period .


brilliant achievement



> Another news is that it's likely that CHANA will take over Volvo soon.


I've heard about that, too. It's reported that China South Group Company(兵装中国集团), which owns Chana and meantime owns some large motocycle companies in China, will use cash to purchase Volve at the price above the market, but later Chana came out to clarify that it won't consider to go buy Volve within at least 3 months as to its own development planning, and hence the situation is very complicated


----------



## snapdragon

China is really moving qiuckly in segments of high end development .They now indegeniously produce the fastest trains on earth .They now idgeniously have produced their own version of 3-g technology for mobiles .Last year the company that filed the largest number of patents on earth was was huawei from shezhen ahead of panasonic hitachi google microsoft and so and it is among the top 3 companies in the world in networking. They have also moved a bit ahead in making aircrafts and jet engines but still long way behind beoing   . Among car industry they are moving quickly .Hmm they are still lagging in pharmaceutical They need to create companeis like pfizer and glaxosmithkline .That is one zone they are seriously fucked up The govt needs to address that quickly .
They are doing a great job in gold minning companies in minning industry in general .With huge acquisitions world over . In Banking sector well the worlds 3 largest banks in terms of market value are form China . 
They are moving quickly in internet market but in my view it is slow .They need to restrict usage of fake software products. That way many chinese youngsters can start companies that make software products which can be sold and make money .Right now everyone in china just is addicted to using free software and hence nobody is able to start a software firm and make it a successfull business.The growth in internet business .sohu ,alibaba sina xiaonei and so on is quite satisfactory but could be bigger  .
They have huge scope in tea coffee and agri market right now it handled very very badly .Most large scale american corporations just buy high end tea and coffe from yunan and package them and selll them for millions of usd of profits and leave farmers with minimum cash it is very very sad .THE GOVT NEEDS TO CREATE A BETTER STRUCTURE SO COFFEE INDUSTRY AND TEA INDUSTRY GETS THE PROFITS IT DESERVES THROUGH PROPER ADVERTISING CAMPAIGNS AND MARKETING STRATEGIES .The chiense indegneious tea brands haev the capacity to overtake anything on earth huge potential but very badly handled and no marketing sadly and no brand.


----------



## null

7freedom7 said:


> brilliant achievement
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard about that, too. It's reported that China South Group Company(兵装中国集团), which owns Chana and meantime owns some large motocycle companies in China, will use cash to purchase Volve at the price above the market, but later Chana came out to clarify that it won't consider to go buy Volve within at least 3 months as to its own development planning, and hence the situation is very complicated


在这之前，我都不知道兵装中国集团是个啥。

吉利据说要收购通用旗下的萨博(Saab)。


----------



## 7freedom7

null said:


> 在这之前，我都不知道兵装中国集团是个啥。
> 
> 吉利据说要收购通用旗下的萨博(Saab)。


说实话，我也是才知道.LOL


----------



## UD2

silly people on this forum. If you don't like it, then don't buy it. No need to be rude to anyone. 

or I guess in your own manner of diction.

grow the [email protected] up.


----------



## 7freedom7

Brilliance 2009 Zhunchi 1.8T


----------



## mememe

2009 BS6 1.8T AT:


----------



## maldini

mememe said:


> u never seen a car with soft interior door trim ? people tend to link soft-touch plastic with better quality of built materials. this is why buyers of premium brands (what Riich wants to be) expect such materials in the cabin of their cars. ,but such plastic is more expensive like in mercedes. i said chery attitude is quite horrible and iam against it but stil i still want to know what people say about aston martin and chrysler logo, is that behaviour acceptable ?


Of course they are not going to say anything about it. They are just racist against the Chinese, and they fear the rapid rising of Chinese car industry.


----------



## 7freedom7

Chery A3 flying show


----------



## 7freedom7

FAW Besturn B50


----------



## Northern Lotus

I received a email that VW is building, or will build a one seat car in Shanghai and will start selling next year at 4,000 Yuan or US$600., it looks like a tear drop, very cool. I am not sure if the following attachment will show pictures. sorry if it fails.






New ride
If you could go to Shanghai for a vacation, buy two or more of these cars, one for your wife and one for yourself, and one for each of your kids, have them shipped to Canada and still spend less money than if you bought a car in Canada. Getting the car(s) into USA , still an ordeal.
This is not a toy, not a concept car. It is a newly developed single seat car in highly aerodynamic tear-shape road-proven real car. It is ready to be launched as a single-seater for sale in Shanghai in 2010 for a mere RMB 4,000 (US$600)!
Interested? Wait till you learn that it will cruise at 100-120 Km/Hr with an unbelievable 0.99litre/100Km (258 miles/gallon) !! 
Impressed? Totally, after you have read all the details below about the hi-tech and space-age material input into this car!!! 
The Most Economic Car in the World will be on sale next year

Better than Electric Car - 258 miles/gallon: IPO 2010 in Shanghai
This is a single seated car 
From conception to production: 3 years and the company is headquartered in Hamburg , Germany . 
Will be selling for 4000 yuan, equivalent to US$600.. 
Gas tank capacity = 1.7 gallons 
Speed = 62 - 74.6 Miles/hour 
Fuel efficiency = 258 miles/gallon 
Travel distance with a full tank = 404 miles 

*C 

?






!


----------



## GregfromAustria

wow chinese cars look so cheap! are they?


----------



## goschio

Northern Lotus said:


> I received a email that VW is building, or will build a one seat car in Shanghai and will start selling next year at 4,000 Yuan or US$600., it looks like a tear drop, very cool. I am not sure if the following attachment will show pictures. sorry if it fails.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New ride
> If you could go to Shanghai for a vacation, buy two or more of these cars, one for your wife and one for yourself, and one for each of your kids, have them shipped to Canada and still spend less money than if you bought a car in Canada. Getting the car(s) into USA , still an ordeal.
> This is not a toy, not a concept car. It is a newly developed single seat car in highly aerodynamic tear-shape road-proven real car. It is ready to be launched as a single-seater for sale in Shanghai in 2010 for a mere RMB 4,000 (US$600)!
> Interested? Wait till you learn that it will cruise at 100-120 Km/Hr with an unbelievable 0.99litre/100Km (258 miles/gallon) !!
> Impressed? Totally, after you have read all the details below about the hi-tech and space-age material input into this car!!!
> The Most Economic Car in the World will be on sale next year
> 
> Better than Electric Car - 258 miles/gallon: IPO 2010 in Shanghai
> This is a single seated car
> From conception to production: 3 years and the company is headquartered in Hamburg , Germany .
> Will be selling for 4000 yuan, equivalent to US$600..
> Gas tank capacity = 1.7 gallons
> Speed = 62 - 74.6 Miles/hour
> Fuel efficiency = 258 miles/gallon
> Travel distance with a full tank = 404 miles


Your attachment failed.

Probably something lie this?









This one was build by BMW in the 1950s.


----------



## Northern Lotus

NO, NO, NO, It looks really modern. The door swings upward.


----------



## Haoting

*Roewe N1 (350)*

This one is a beauty! If Roewe can sell the N1 (350) next year for 100,00 - 150,000 RMB then they will sell millions of them in the Chinese market. It would also sell well in foreign markets if priced under $20,000.


----------



## 7freedom7

Chery Riich G5 will go on sale in September this year.


----------



## He Named Thor

7freedom7 said:


> Chery Riich G5 will go on sale in September this year.


Reminds me of the Impala. 









Is this supposed to be a premium car? Because it looks cheap next to even some of the more low-end cars in this thread.


----------



## 7freedom7

LOL is that an American humor? Maybe sometimes it's logical for yourself


----------



## YelloPerilo

He Named Thor said:


>


This car, and any USAmerican car reminds me of an old dinosaur breathing heavily befor it dies a slow death.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

*Changan Volvo S80L*

Does Changan Volvo S80L count as "Chinese"?

http://autonews.gasgoo.com/auto-news/1011805/Four-Chinese-astronauts-buy-Volvo-S80L-cars.html


----------



## 7freedom7

*JAC Heyue MPV*


----------



## cjav

I wonder how long it will take before Chinese cars are exported to the west, if they fulfill safety standards I can definitely see some people buying them.


----------



## He Named Thor

cjav said:


> I wonder how long it will take before Chinese cars are exported to the west, if they fulfill safety standards I can definitely see some people buying them.


Well the Jiangling Motors Landwind suv is already sold in Europe.

















This was the truck that became famous after its record-low crash test scores. 










But they made some improvements to it, and it is now sold in Europe. I think emissions standards keep it from entering North America. 

They do need to work on safety and emissions, which they appear to be doing. The other thing is quality and perception, which is what will really hurt them in the Western markets. Pretty much anything with a "Made in China" label is going to be equated with garbage, and they'll need to work hard to overcome that.


----------



## 7freedom7

*Great Wall's first MiniSUV Hover M1*


----------



## alex_zebe




----------



## 7freedom7

*Great Wall made its debut of Cross Xuanli this week*


----------



## 7freedom7

*Chery Rely V5 put on the market today*


----------



## tiger

The sales of Chana's Yue Xiang surpassed 10 000 last month. It thus became the third Chinese car model with more than 10 000 sales per month along with BYD's F3 and Chery's QQ, but QQ is too low end and hence uncomparable.

Now the war started between F3 and YX.:banana:


----------



## chornedsnorkack

*Hongqi HQE is out*

Hongqi HQE was used on the 60th national day parade:

http://autonews.gasgoo.com/auto-new...unveiled-at-National-Day-military-parade.html


----------



## Xorcist

of course it´s really ok that the chinese develop their own cars...but well...please don´t let the sell that "cars" to the rest of the world. well...here in europe no one wants to buy cars which are produced in the US (the have a really bad reputation, very bad quality), so, why should we buy chinese cars?? europe and japan are the most ambitious car markets in the world (even toyota can´t sell enough lexus in germany!!!) - so, it will take years, decades, to sell just a single chinese car in europe...and, if i watch the pictures here, well...i´d save my money and would buy a european (german, french or swedish) car or at least a japanese car - NOTHING else!! sorry china...(and...sorry USA *lol*)


----------



## Sen

He Named Thor said:


> Well the Jiangling Motors Landwind suv is already sold in Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was the truck that became famous after its record-low crash test scores.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But they made some improvements to it, and it is now sold in Europe. I think emissions standards keep it from entering North America.
> 
> They do need to work on safety and emissions, which they appear to be doing. The other thing is quality and perception, which is what will really hurt them in the Western markets. Pretty much anything with a "Made in China" label is going to be equated with garbage, and they'll need to work hard to overcome that.


do you wear a lot of garbage?


----------



## icracked

Some of these cars are nice but the Chinese public still prefer foreign cars over their domestic products (I've seen so many black Audis A5-A6s, Ford Focus and VW jetta on the streets of Beijing/Boading). I asked many people and safety and brand image are the main reasons why they choose foreign automaker's products. The most popular domestic car i've seen is the Chery QQ.


----------



## 7freedom7

^^ Yes, the quality problem today is still an obstacle for Chinese consumers in particular for those living in 1st tier cities when choosing domestic brands. Even though Chinese national automakers have made a considerable progress in terms of the engine, gearbox and chassis technology during recent one year or two, there are still some unsatisfactory things existing in the details.


----------



## 7freedom7

Chery Riich G5 was challenging Nuerburgring track


----------



## big-dog

There're 1 million cars sold in September in China...

Auto sales surge 84% last month

(China Daily/Agencies)
Updated: 2009-10-14



> Strong sales growth has turbocharged profits and share prices of Chinese automakers. [Bloomberg News]
> 
> 
> China's passenger-car sales surged 84 percent last month as government stimulus measures and an economic rebound spurred demand.
> 
> Sales of cars, sport-utility vehicles and multipurpose vehicles climbed to 1.015 million, the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers said.
> 
> Car sales also jumped 90 percent in August thanks to a 4 trillion yuan ($ 586 billion) stimulus package, including support for auto sales, designed to shield China from the worst of the global slowdown.
> 
> General Motors Co, the largest overseas automaker in China, more than doubled September sales from a year earlier to 181,148 vehicles. In the first nine months, it sold 1.29 million, surpassing the tally for the whole of 2008.
> 
> Volkswagen AG boosted nine-month China sales to 1.06 million vehicles, beating the 1.02 million it sold in the whole of 2008.
> 
> China's biggest automaker, SAIC Motor Corp, also said sales were racing ahead, up 47 percent in the first nine months from a year ago.
> 
> In January, China's auto market overtook the United States as the world's largest.
> 
> Analysts said the loose money policies that have propelled the industry are set to continue at least till the end of the year.
> 
> "Auto sales rely heavily on policies, just like the stock market. It's hard to predict the sales outlook for next year as we don't know whether the government will renew the tax cuts for small cars after they expired at the year end," said Qin Xuwen, an analyst with Orient Securities. "If they indeed cut sales tax on mid-range sedans next year as many hope, it could be another bumper year ahead."
> 
> All of China's publicly traded domestic car makers are likely to give some outlook for the rest of the year when they report third-quarter results in the next few weeks.
> 
> But regardless of how they end the year, companies are likely to see their sales growth cool down in 2010, said Ji Junfeng, an analyst with Changjiang Securities.
> 
> "They're not likely to see a repeat of the explosive year-on-year growth in car sales in 2010 as the comparative base will be much higher," he said.
> 
> "It's true that government policies have helped push up auto sales this year, and weak demand in 2008 also played a role in it."
> 
> The strong growth has also turbocharged profits and shares for Chinese automakers, which are required by the Shanghai Stock Exchange to announce if their profits will rise or fall by more than 50 percent in any given period.
> 
> SAIC did just that, saying yesterday its net profit for first nine months of the year jumped more than 70 percent.
> 
> Chongqing Changan Automobile Co, a Ford Motor partner in China, also said its third-quarter net profit was estimated between 267.2 million yuan and 327.2 million yuan, reversing a net loss of 106.64 million yuan a year earlier.
> 
> SAIC shares have nearly quadrupled this year, while Changan's Shanghai-listed shares have more than tripled and Dongfeng's shares are up 58 percent.
> 
> Geely's Hong Kong-listed shares have tripled over the year to date, including a 7 percent jump yesterday to a nine year high after it reported its September car sales doubled.


----------



## 7freedom7

Chery Fulwin2 sedan put on the market today


----------



## thun

Would be nice to have a (more or less) complete list of Chinese producers. Maybe one of you guys feel like searching the links to the websites and putting them somewhere on the first page of the thread (editing a post)?


----------



## Scion

http://data.auto.qq.com/car_brand/index.shtml#A

The brands that aren't foreign are Chinese


----------



## icracked

we should add Hummer to the list since I heard it is going to bought out buy a Shanghai firm.


----------



## big-dog

China's auto output hits 10m mark

Updated: 2009-10-20



> CHANGCHUN: China's production of automobiles since the beginning of this year hit 10 million units on Tuesday, making it the third country in the world to surpass the annual output mark, according to the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers (CAAM).
> 
> Only the United States and Japan have previously passed the annual production figure of 10 million.
> 
> The event was marked at a celebration jointly sponsored by the CAAM and China Society of Automotive Engineering at the First Automobile Works (FAW) Group Corp. headquarters in Changchun, capital of northeast China's Jilin Province.
> 
> FAW used the event to launch its new model Jiefang truck, with the first vehicle rolling off the production line with the serial number 10000000.
> 
> China's automotive industry has sustained a robust growth despite the global economic slowdown this year, thanks to the government support package for the sector at the beginning of the year.
> 
> Under the package, the government lowered the purchase tax on cars with engines under 1.6 liters from 10 percent to 5 percent, allocated allowances to farmers to upgrade farm vehicles and to mini-truck and mini-van owners to upgrade their vehicles.
> 
> As a result, the country's auto output surged 78.85 percent year-on-year to 1.36 million units in September, while total sales hit a new monthly high of 1.33 million units, up 77.88 percent from a year earlier, the CAAM announced in a release on October 13.
> 
> Established in 1953, FAW is China's oldest automotive group and produced the country's first domestic model of truck, under the Jiefang brand, in 1956, and later produced Hongqi (or Red Flag) bulletproof sedans, which have been used by China's state leaders.


(http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-10/20/content_8820529.htm)


----------



## Scion

thun said:


> Would be nice to have a (more or less) complete list of Chinese producers.


You can also see the major car manufacturers in this forum

http://www.chinacarforums.com/forum/


----------



## Huhu

icracked said:


> we should add Hummer to the list since I heard it is going to bought out buy a Shanghai firm.


Just because GM owns Opel (for the moment at least), it doesn't really make Opel "American." The same could be said of Hummer, whoever ends up buying it.


----------



## 7freedom7

Chana Yuexiang Hatchback 1.5L to be released in November this year.


----------



## Scion

*Guangzhou Auto’s first self developed sedan spotted out*

21 Oct 2009

Guangzhou’s amazing array of concept cars stunned an impressed public at the Beijing Auto Show two years ago. Guangzhou currently works with two of the biggest automotive brands in the world, Honda and Toyota, has likely learned a thing or two about engineering, quality and R&D. Guangzhou Auto also recently signed up with Fiat to produce cars in China, but prior to the Fiat JV, Guangzhou purchased the rights to an outgoing Alfa Romeo platform that is likely to be the base for the below car:














































As you can see, the car has been spotted on two occasions. The white one is quite similar to the Guangzhou Auto’s VIP Lounge concept car (top, left), which is expected to go into production in 2010. Guangzhou are apparently trying to capture the ’sports-business’ niche that has yet to be fully tapped in China, other vehicles which compete in this segment would be the Honda Spirior, and the MG7.

From the spy pictures, the black vehicle appears to be roughly the same size as the Alfa 166 that it is based on, but the body work appears to be quite different. It’s still unclear what engines Guangzhou will put in these rather fine looking cars, will it be a Fiat sourced powerplant, or something they’ve cooked up themselves, although there are rumors of Guangzhou building their own 1.4T 1.8 and 2.0l engines for their future car line up. The white tester vehicle also shows a blurry “A” on the back. which could mean that Guangzhou are planning to run with their own ‘Acumen’ brand, rather than using the Guangzhou name.

http://www.chinacartimes.com/2009/10/21/guangzhou-autos-first-self-developed-sedan-spotted-out/


----------



## 7freedom7

a few more pics of Chery Fulwin2 sedan


----------



## 7freedom7

*FAW Hongqi (Red Flag)* comes complete with its new V12 engine this year, which was created by FAW independently, and FAW said the engine will equip the future Hongqi HQE limo. The first V12 engine from FAW was developed by Chinese engineers. With a capacity of 6.0 liters, the V12 was given the code name CA12VG, with its maximum power to reach at least 400 HP.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

7freedom7 said:


> *FAW Hongqi (Red Flag)* comes complete with its new V12 engine this year, which was created by FAW independently, and FAW said the engine will equip the future Hongqi HQE limo. The first V12 engine from FAW was developed by Chinese engineers. With a capacity of 6.0 liters, the V12 was given the code name CA12VG, with its maximum power to reach at least 400 HP.


Mentioned before - thanks for pictures!

Are private people allowed to buy Hongqi HQE-s?


----------



## 7freedom7

chornedsnorkack said:


> Mentioned before - thanks for pictures!
> 
> Are private people allowed to buy Hongqi HQE-s?


Yes, it's designed for the mass market


----------



## 7freedom7

Chery Rely X5 to take part in the 2010 Dakar Rally


----------



## YelloPerilo

7freedom7 said:


> Yes, it's designed for the mass market


With a price tag of over 400.000 Euro, I don't think many people can afford it. And the waiting list will be quite long as FAW just produces a few of this car per year.


----------



## 7freedom7

^^ True, and yet it's sure that HQE is available to private consumers wishing to buy ti.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

YelloPerilo said:


> With a price tag of over 400.000 Euro, I don't think many people can afford it.


This is not much bigger than the price of Rolls-Royce Phantom or Bentley Mulsanne.

Who now have Phantoms in China? And will they swap for Hongqis?

Although the price of Hongqi is quoted to be twice that of RR Ghost - see http://www.chinacartimes.com/2009/10/23/got-eight-million-rmb-spare-get-yourself-a-state-limosuine/

But would you rather be seen in a Hongqi HQE or a Geely GE?


----------



## 7freedom7

*Chinese national brands*










*the worldwide competitors*









*As the charts show, the average quality of Chinese national brands has reached to the level where Saab was in 2008 (to a certain context)*


----------



## zergcerebrates

You know what, this car is actually quite appealing. The rear reminds me of the new BMWs for some reason and the overall body is like the VW CC. Its a good start.


----------



## 7freedom7

*BYD G3 unveiled on Guangzhou Auto Expo*


----------



## 7freedom7

7freedom7 said:


> *SAIC (Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation) to launch the new MG6 at the Guangzhou Car Show on November 24 (Beijing time)*


*Interior details*


----------



## Whiteeclipse

*SAIC to build new energy car plant in Caofeidian*
SAIC Motor Corp Ltd, the listed subsidiary of Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp Group, signed a framework agreement with the Tangshan municipal government on Wednesday to set up a joint venture plant in the city.

The JV plant, to be located in Caofeidian economic development zone, will be built into SAIC's production base for new energy cars. The new plant will leverage on the advantageous geographic location and the rich natural resources of Caofeidian and is expected to satisfy the growing demand for green vehicles in the Bohai Bay Rim region, which has a population of around 250 million.

Reportedly, SAIC plans to launch a serious of new energy cars from next year, including hybrid cars and self-developed electric cars.

Earlier this month, Hu Maoyuan, chairman of Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp Group, said at an industry forum that the group would invest RMB 6 billion to develop and produce new energy cars over the next two years. The investment includes RMB 2 billion for the building of car-making factories.
http://www.chinaknowledge.com/Newswires/News_Detail.aspx?type=1&NewsID=29178


----------



## Whiteeclipse

*Geely says Volvo to retain technology after purchase*
Geely Holding Group Co, the Chinese carmaker in talks to buy Volvo Car Corp, said the Swedish company would retain ownership of technology following a sale by Ford Motor Co.

Geely, which is offering to buy 100 percent of Volvo, has financing in place for the deal, Yuan Xiaolin, a spokesman for the Chinese automaker, said on Friday in Beijing. Ford named Geely as preferred bidder for Volvo in October.

Intellectual-property protection remains a stumbling block in the takeover because Ford will continue supplying components following a sale. Similar patent concerns derailed Beijing Automotive Industry Holding Co's bid to buy General Motors Co's Opel unit, the Chinese carmaker's chairman said in July.

Geely is prepared to pay about $2 billion for Volvo, less than a third of what Ford paid a decade ago, people familiar with the talks have said. Dearborn, Michigan-based Ford plans to sell the unit to focus on its main Ford brand.

Geely Group, China's biggest private automaker, boosted 10 month revenue 26 percent to 14.9 billion yuan, spokesman Wang Ziliang said on Friday. Vehicle sales rose 45 percent to more than 200,000, he said.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2009-11/28/content_9068897.htm


----------



## Scion

Guangzhou Auto's X-power SUV concept

Video:
http://www.pcauto.com.cn/guangzhou/09cz/vedio/0911/1032737.html


----------



## 7freedom7

*BYD leaks out its first SUV S6*


----------



## 7freedom7

*Taiwan Luxgen spilled out its first SUV*


----------



## tiger

*Chana Benben-i rolls off production line* 

China's first electric vehicle called Benben-i produced by Changan Auto Co., Ltd. rolled off the production line at the automaker's Yubei automobile manufacturing plant on December 6.










This stuff tells you the level of energy reserve









Minimum price: 150,000 RMB(approximately $22000)

More infos: http://auto.qq.com/a/20091207/000067.htm

Chana is also the first Chinese company that has launched Hybrid car for individual consumers.


----------



## 7freedom7

*Geely's new energy car M'car EV scheduled to export to Taiwan market.*


----------



## CoCoMilk

^^ omg.....i want one xD do they sell it in the US?


----------



## 7freedom7

They will.


----------



## NorthWesternGuy

That MG doesn´t look bad BTW, I´m sure that the M car would be great for any city


----------



## 7freedom7

^^ Thanks for your comment.


----------



## 7freedom7

*BAIC B40 SUV to go on sale in early 2010.*


----------



## 7freedom7

*BAIC buys 3 Saab platforms, and two turbo engines*

Both foreign and domestic Chinese media reports this afternoon indicated that BAIC has successfully purchase two platforms and two turbo powered engines from bankrupt car maker Saab.

The Chinese media are reporting that the Saab 9-3 and Saab 9-5 have been snapped up by Beijing Automotive Industry Corporation, turbo assisted engines as well as gearboxes and various pieces of IPR have been included in GM’s firesale.

At various automotive shows in 2009 and 2008 BAIC has shown off an impressive range of concept cars that it plans to put into production within the next few years, now that it has easy access to a range of platforms, engines, and gearboxes it may be able to skip a massive step in its R&D process. The 9-3 and 9-5 are expected to be produced in China under the Beijing Auto brand.

However, the Saab saga doesn’t end here, other media outlets are reporting that a further fight maybe on for the rights to the rest of the Saab. SAIC are reportedly interested in entering the fray, they may even be granted favored status by their JV partner and Saab owner GM


----------



## Wezza

>


39.9L/100km? They must have drove it hard for those 4km on the clock! :lol:


----------



## 7freedom7

Wezza said:


> 39.9L/100km? They must have drove it hard for those 4km on the clock! :lol:


You looked very carefully, dude, I didn't notice that before


----------



## Wezza

7freedom7 said:


> You looked very carefully, dude, I didn't notice that before


Not sure why i stood out at me but it did. :lol:


----------



## 7freedom7

*China wants more self developed vehicles on the road​*
SHANGHAI, Dec 16 (Reuters) – China wants half of passenger cars, including sport utility vehicles, sold to be self-developed by 2015, state media said on Wednesday, up from 44 percent now, as part of a push to build up its own auto industry.

Chinese automaker’s own-brand sedans should account for a 40 percent share of the market, according to revised guidelines for the auto industry, the Shanghai Securities News said, citing unamed sources.

Sales of SAIC Motor Corp’s Roewe and other indigenous sedans came to 1.95 million units in the first 11 months, accounting for 29 percent of overall sedan sales, official data showed.

The guidelines, expected to be released in the first half of 2010, also called for Chinese companies to hold at least 50 percent of any newly-formed foreign venture producing green cars, batteries and key components, the newspaper said.

They also encouraged local automakers to recruit overseas talent, it said, without elaborating.

China’s auto market has been a major bright spot this year amid a steep global industry downturn thanks to Beijing’s policy initiatives which effectively bolstered consumer confidence.

Still, most Chinese automakers are either making foreign brand cars in tie-ups with firms such as General Motors, and Volkswagen AG, or focusing on the lower-end of the market.


----------



## He Named Thor

Yay protectionism.


----------



## 7freedom7

China being a developing country, its auto market is exactly way more open to foreigners than the neighbor countries. I attribute this new benchmark set by the Chinese government to the dramatic progress achieved by the indigenous private and state owned auto companies within the recent 10 years.


----------



## bluemeansgo

Uhmmm... care to elaborate on that one?

It's pretty common knowledge that China is becoming more and more protectionist. Unless you work for the Chinese government I don't know how you can say that China isn't protectionist with a straight face.

Not that there's anything wrong with protectionism, btw. I think it has its place... and that globalization is highly overrated.


----------



## 7freedom7

^^ I'm shocked that you have such a low ability on comprehensive reading and perhaps suffer from kind of delusions, man! Read my post again! I didn't say China wasn't protectionist and was a saint. 

I checked all your posts, you seem to be a Japanese, right?


----------



## 7freedom7

*Geely to try their hand at the semi premium market with new EC825*



> The *EC825 *is preparing to strike against the B-segment in which it will take on the BYD E6, Chery Eastar, and JAC Binyue. The BYD E6 is probably the biggest seller in this segment, with monthly sales of around 5000 units, hence it is a market that Geely wants to enter into.
> 
> Apparently the EC825 will be mated to a 1.8L which will be priced at 80,000rmb to 111,200rmb, where as the 2.0L and 2.4L will be 120,000rmb to 180,000rmb. If you’re thinking the 2.4L version seems a little expensive, then you need to consider the double clutch gearbox that Geely are planning to fit into this motor.


----------



## 7freedom7

*Great Wall expands to Europe!*

The Great Wall of China will be expanded to Europe! Not the famous structure, but the carmaker. I.M. Group, the UK-based automotive importer and distributor for Subaru, Isuzu and Daihatsu, has signed an agreement to import vehicles from Great Wall Motor Company Limited into Europe starting 2010.

Great Wall will be initially introduced to the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. Launches in Scandinavia, the UK and Ireland are planned for 2011. 

I.M. Group assures that Great Wall’s Europe bound cars were designed and built specifically to meet EU vehicle type approval standards. “This will ensure that Great Wall models deliver high standards of crash-worthiness, equal to those of modern European and Japanese vehicles,” said the statement.

Hong Kong Stock Exchange listed Great Wall Motor Company employs over 22,000 people and has the capacity to build 800,000 vehicles annually.


----------



## 7freedom7

*Roewe 350 – spotted out again*




















































> SAIC seem to have worked closely with their partner, GM, to understand exactly how to design an interior that appeals to the Chinese public. This car is likely be a massive seller for Roewe, and will likely be priced lower than the current Buick Excelle, but higher than than the Aveo, both of which are very very popular cars in the PRC.
> 
> Engines are supposed to be naturally aspirated 1.5VCTL and 1.8DVVTL models, there is also news of the cars getting 7 speed DSG gearboxes which would be a massive selling point at this price level. A hatchback version of the 350, codenamed AP12, is set to launch at the end of 2011.


----------



## simcard

7freedom7 said:


> I checked all your posts, you seem to be a Japanese, right?


japan makes some of the best cars in the world, truly world class stuff


----------



## 7freedom7

If it's true that he is a Japanese, he should know it's the mature and open-mined Chinese consumers that buy the Japanese world class goods to help dragging Japan out of the doldrums of the Lost Decade. However us Chinese dont need him to be thankful anyway, but just to be fair. China is more open to the foreigners than Japan is, nobody can deny that. Outside of the US, China is the only place where GM has been able to make money during this downturn. Simcard, i'm not sure that it's your business anyway.


----------



## simcard

7freedom7 said:


> Outside of the US, China is the only place where GM has been able to make money during this downturn. Simcard, i'm not sure that it's your business anyway.



The reason a crap car maker like GM is successful in China and not in Japan is because China cannot produce good cars on thier own, which is why GM have a easy life in China, in Japan there is no way GM can comepte. Also i would not be boastful of GM being successful in China, its quiet embarassing given the cars are so bland and unimpressive. Btw GM has big operation in Europe in the form of OPel/Vauxhall, and the financial situation is in tatters, job losses, factory shut down, begging for bailout, unable to keep and getting rid of swedish Saab 

There is plenty of Japanese cars in European roads, i dont see any Chinese cars in british/european roads, so i can safely say that Chinese cars are not good enough, which is why GM found it easy to sell their rubbish in China.


----------



## Huhu

simcard said:


> The reason a crap car maker like GM is successful in China and not in Japan is because China cannot produce good cars on thier own, which is why GM have a easy life in China, in Japan there is no way GM can comepte. Also i would not be boastful of GM being successful in China, its quiet embarassing given the cars are so bland and unimpressive. Btw GM has big operation in Europe in the form of OPel/Vauxhall, and the financial situation is in tatters, job losses, factory shut down, begging for bailout, unable to keep and getting rid of swedish Saab
> 
> There is plenty of Japanese cars in European roads, i dont see any Chinese cars in british/european roads, so i can safely say that Chinese cars are not good enough, which is why GM found it easy to sell their rubbish in China.


Err, Japanese companies had the same opportunity to expand in the Chinese market but were outmaneuvered by GM and VW; domestic Chinese cars shouldn't even come into this equation. Your logic that GM succeeds in China because they make bad cars seems rather curious.


----------



## snow is red

Well you know VW is selling well everywhere, not just China but indeed it's doing extremely well in China and that's understandable. I still don't understand why GM cars are so popular in China, it's not popular anywhere even in their own country. Maybe Simcard's got a point but even that is not enough to explain that though when there are so many other choices out there, Germany and Japan, why buy GM cars when the Americans themselves don't want to buy it. 

Btw I heard that the BYD F3 model is very popular in China, right ? But BYD does not look so serious when they keep churning out more copy cars, so far it's only Geely and Chery that are trying hard to win back the Chinese market share with improved quality and newer models with more originality. 

My knowledge on automobile is limited, perhaps you can correct me if I am wrong. Thanks.


----------



## simcard

Huhu said:


> Err, Japanese companies had the same opportunity to expand in the Chinese market but were outmaneuvered by GM and VW; domestic Chinese cars shouldn't even come into this equation. Your logic that GM succeeds in China because they make bad cars seems rather curious.


i will assume that the Japanese companies were outmanuvered because of Japans military history in China, Chinese people understandbly did not want to pay for Japanese cars and Japanese companies did not push themselves, the Japanese cars are excellent though, and the chinese consumers suffered. . VW does make quality cars and i can see why they were successful in China. But i am confused as to the success of GM in China given the cars are not very good, although better than Chinese cars.


----------



## 7freedom7

simcard said:


> The reason a crap car maker like GM is successful in China and not in Japan is because China cannot produce good cars on thier own, which is why GM have a easy life in China, in Japan there is no way GM can comepte. Also i would not be boastful of GM being successful in China, its quiet embarassing given the cars are so bland and unimpressive. Btw GM has big operation in Europe in the form of OPel/Vauxhall, and the financial situation is in tatters, job losses, factory shut down, begging for bailout, unable to keep and getting rid of swedish Saab
> 
> There is plenty of Japanese cars in European roads, i dont see any Chinese cars in british/european roads, so i can safely say that Chinese cars are not good enough, which is why GM found it easy to sell their rubbish in China.


If someone from GM saw your statement, maybe they will give you a reason why GM can't even make a dent in Japanese market within tens of years. But you know what, other than GM itself who else can you blame? Japanese? Chinese? That's the reality, that's life. And mind if you look into the auto markets of other developing countries like India, Russia, Brazil, Indonesia. They all cant build good quality cars as well, but can you see GM gets a easy life in there?


----------



## 7freedom7

simcard said:


> i will assume that the Japanese companies were outmanuvered because of Japans military history in China, Chinese people understandbly did not want to pay for Japanese cars and Japanese companies did not push themselves, the Japanese cars are excellent though, and the chinese consumers suffered


You are probably right on this, but who cares?



simcard said:


> VW does make quality cars and i can see why they were successful in China. But i am confused as to the success of GM in China given the cars are not very good, although better than Chinese cars.


the cooperation between SAIC and GM is quite successful, and GM obviously has been making the best of the marketing advantage of SAIC in Chinese auto market, and GM is pretty satisfied with this partner. As a result of it you can see GM has given SAIC the majority of the JV in China and united with SAIC to explore Indian auto market in the same style (probably of an 50-50 JV as well).


----------



## staff




----------



## snow is red

^^ lol I would not call that a Chinese cars. No one calls Volvo an American car even though it belongs to Ford, it's still very swedish.

But it's funny though, Geely cannot take care of itself and yet it still wants to go on a shopping spree. If they have money then why not spend it on developing its own technology, improve on quality and better designs ? Why buy a failing auto brand ? If Volvo was profitable then Ford would not consider selling it. Geely itself is not even on the top of the car sales ranking in China. If a company like Ford cannot do anything to help Volvo then what can Geely do ? Is this meant to be a suicidal act or what ?


----------



## snow is red

G5 has gone on sale (23rd Dec)


----------



## Scion

simcard said:


> VW does make quality cars and i can see why they were successful in China. But i am confused as to the success of GM in China given the cars are not very good, although better than Chinese cars.


It probably has something to do with the "first comer advantage" in economics.

VW is the first foreign car company to enter the China market in 1984, and it now has the largest market share amongst all foreign makers with ~18%. GM entered China in 1995 and now has ~14% of the market. Toyota, Honda and Nissan entered China around late 90s and early 00s, and they all have less market share than VW and GM.

Another example of the first comer advantage in China is KFC, they were in China before McDonalds and are also more popular.


----------



## simcard

good for Geely, but catastrophic for Volvo


----------



## 7freedom7

snow is red said:


> ^^ lol I would not call that a Chinese cars. No one calls Volvo an American car even though it belongs to Ford, it's still very swedish.
> 
> But it's funny though, Geely cannot take care of itself and yet it still wants to go on a shopping spree. If they have money then why not spend it on developing its own technology, improve on quality and better designs ? Why buy a failing auto brand ? If Volvo was profitable then Ford would not consider selling it. Geely itself is not even on the top of the car sales ranking in China. If a company like Ford cannot do anything to help Volvo then what can Geely do ? Is this meant to be a suicidal act or what ?


lol, What you said sounds very funny, Tony. Do you know why Li Shufu (and Wang Chuanfu王传福, the CEO of BYD) can become the wealthy of great name and another typical creator of miracle in China but you can't? Because they are the wizards at business. If you are always sticking to the latest auto news about Chinese domestic auto industry, you would find the reason for yourself.

BTW, Volve has been bought over by Geely, said a Geely spokesman today.




> *Geely given green light to buy Volvo*
> 
> Reuters:
> 
> U.S. Ford Motor said in a statement on Wednesday it had agreed all substantial commercial terms in a deal to sell its Volvo Car Corporation unit to China’s Zhejiang Geely Holding Group, parent of Geely Auto.
> 
> “While some work still remains to be completed before signing … Ford and Geely anticipate that a definitive sale agreement will be signed in the first quarter of 2010,” Ford said, adding the deal was seen closed in the second quarter.
> 
> The estimated $1.8 billion deal would be the largest overseas acquisition by a Chinese automaker. It follows the recent purchase by Beijing Automotive Industry Holding Co of assets from General Motors’ Swedish unit Saab.
> 
> Chinese carmakers are taking advantage of a crisis-sparked shake-up of the auto industry, tapping into Western brands while taking advantage of a fast-growing home market, which is seen passing the United States this year.
> 
> However, there is still a significant technology gap between domestic Chinese automakers and their global rivals, which has left the Chinese looking for acquisitions of overseas technology and designs as the global auto industry restructures.


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## Scion

*BYD G6*

Yes I know what you're gonna say! It's a copy from Honda Accord Euro...


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## Scion

*BYD L3*


















(it's L3, not F5)


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## 7freedom7

7freedom7 said:


> *Chinese drivers finish first stage of Dakar rally*
> 
> This is not the first time that Chinese drivers have taken part in the Dakar rally, it is however the first time that Chinese car companies have entered into the race across South America. This year both Chery and Greatwall have entered the SUV race segment.
> 
> From the Global Times:


Source: http://www.dakar.com/cn/DAKAR/2010/live.html


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## Get Smart

both cars look like a copy of Toyota products, and the ignisia is a ripp off rom Japans Infinity hno: :nono: :nono:


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## 7freedom7

Get Smart said:


> both cars look like a copy of Toyota products, and the ignisia is a ripp off rom Japans Infinity hno: :nono: :nono:


How can you see Toyota in those? Where and how do they look like Toyota cars?? hno: And there is a big R in the logo, unless someone with little knowledge on Infinite cars would get confused


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## Get Smart

The van is a copy of the Toyota Hiace hno:










The jeep of the Toyota Prado hno:










^^ the logo has been copy of the Infiniti :nono:

Totally NO Shame


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## 7freedom7

Some people will jump up and point their fingers even when they see only one or two bits that are similar to the other brand cars. hno:

But dont all new cars look like some old ones else? I see only some similarities, however, RelyX5 is definately not a copy.


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## YelloPerilo

Get Smart said:


> The van is a copy of the Toyota Hiace hno:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The jeep of the Toyota Prado hno:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^ the logo has been copy of the Infiniti :nono:
> 
> Totally NO Shame


It looks boxy like most cars of this segment, it has four wheels like *all* cars. But it's made by the evil Chinese = copy. 

Totally sour grape and shameless, because the UK does not have any car companies that are owned by Brits. :kiss:


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## snow is red

^^ Hehe Yello please don't insult Britain, the country is not that bad you know  It created many world class auto brands but bad management didn't help 

Btw I am not even sure if that guy Get Smart is even British. It seems like he spends most of his time here talking about the US. Why would a British care too much about the GM CEO flew to the white house on private jet to beg for bailout money at the expense of the american taxpayers.


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## YelloPerilo

snow is red said:


> ^^ Hehe Yello please don't insult Britain, the country is not that bad you know  It created many world class auto brands but bad management didn't help
> 
> Btw I am not even sure if that guy Get Smart is even British. It seems like he spends most of his time here talking about the US. Why would a British care too much about the GM CEO flew to the white house on private jet to beg for bailout money at the expense of the american taxpayers.


Don't worry, I have no general dislike of the UK. I travel quite often to London and enjoy it very much ... except British food.


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## 7freedom7




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## Scion

> On the global stage, Anchi is pretty much unknown except to a few Chinese car affectionardos and people in the trade. Anchi are mostly known for their basic SUV’s and pick up trucks that are sold largely in third tier cities and the countryside.
> 
> Anchi are now on the verge of producing an ultra mini car, however, it has yet to be put into the national database of soon to be produced cars. The new car, codenamed MC6320A for now, measures (LxWxH) 3190mm x 1670 x 1610 and weighs 830kg.
> 
> According to Anchi, the minicar will come with a choice of three engines, an 800cc, a 1.0L and a 1.1L. Interestingly, the 1.0L and 1.1L will come with the option of having a CVT gearbox fitted, otherwise for manual lovers it will be a 5 speed manual.







































http://www.chinacartimes.com/2010/01/07/smaller-than-an-f0-a-new-contender-for-worlds-cheapest-car/


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## Scion

*Best Selling Companies in 2009*

Earlier this week the car sales statistics for 2009 finally came out, CCT has yet to analyse them in great detail, but it looks like the usual suspects are at the top of the list, however there are some interesting participants further down the list:

*Company / Cars sold*
1 SAIC 2,425,546
2 FAW 1,758,801
3 Chang’an 1,703,081
4 Dongfeng 1,688,685
5 BAW 1,132,330
6 Guangzhou 542,839
7 Chery 436,336
8 BYD 388,247
9 Brilliance 316,924
10 JAC 296,711

The top six companies all have JV’s with succesfull international companies, some of them have multiple JV’s hence they have sales over two, three, or even four brands. Chery seems to be heading up the sales of the independent companies with BYD not so far behind. More statistics later.

http://www.chinacartimes.com/2010/01/07/best-selling-companies-in-2009/


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## KiwiGuy

Get Smart said:


> The van is a copy of the Toyota Hiace hno:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The jeep of the Toyota Prado hno:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^ the logo has been copy of the Infiniti :nono:
> 
> Totally NO Shame


Oh dear, not another lunatic. The Rely X5 was designed and on the market before Toyota had even redesigned the Prado. One could say Toyota copied from them!:nuts:


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## Northern Lotus

Just read that Panda will be marketed in Taiwan with a local company, YuLong, and will also be marketed in SE Asia.


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## Northern Lotus

Single passenger VW for US$600. Will be made in Shanghai.
http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-vw-1-liter-car.htm


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## Scion

Huatai B11 diesel


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## Scion

Roewe 350
1.5L or 1.5L Turbo
Price range ¥80,000 - ¥100,000


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## oliver999

i bought a car today,rowew 550,135000RMB


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## Wezza

That interior looks pretty good to me. Are the plastics good quality?


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## CHLayson

this is like a kia motors


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## duozhuchen

I prefer practical cars


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## Haoting

*Great Wall Motors & Haval at the 2013 Shanghai Auto Show*

Only in Russian, so please turn down the volume if you don't understand what he is saying.


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