# SPAIN / PORTUGAL - FIFA World Cup 2018 / 2022 bid



## Golan Trevize (Dec 3, 2005)

So that yesterday they sign an agreement to bid for the 2018/2022 World Cup , here is the topic to discuss what stadiums they might use:

*Portugal*

Estádio da Luz - Lisbon - 65 000



















Estádio do Dragão - Porto - 50 000



















Estádio Alvalade - Lisbon - 50 000



















Estádio Axa - Braga - 30 000 (+ 10 000 temporary seats)



















Estádio do Algarve - Faro/Loulé - 30 000 (+10 000 temporary seats)




















*Spain*

Camp Nou - Barcelona - 106 000



















Santiago Bernabeu - Madrid - 80 000



















Nuevo Mestalla - Valencia - 75 000











La Peineta - Madrid - 73 500











La Cartuja - Sevilla - 72 000



















San Mames - Bilbao - 56 000











Nueva Romareda - Zaragoza - 42 500


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## Joop20 (Jun 29, 2004)

nice pics :redx:

I read that only 1 stadium in Lisboa will be in the bid?


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## daniboy (Apr 15, 2007)

I can´t see the pics either.

The Nou Camp capacity is 98.934

I´m happy that Spain and Portugal go together for this bid. Finally this two countries do something together.
Even though I think that Spain alone could have done it. I think we have a big chance of getting the world cup.


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## larsul (May 26, 2007)

Ufff what a nice bid.. i would definitely go to that worldcup.. 
 nice countries, nice stadiums plus one of them speaks my language.. 
I am there!!


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## Golan Trevize (Dec 3, 2005)

Strange, I can see the pics, i will fix it. The capacity for Camp Nou takes in account the planned renovation.


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## Stifler (Apr 11, 2006)

It seems the configuration of the bid will be 8+4 with the opening in Lisboa and the final in Madrid (although opening could be in Barcelona if FIFA finally requires +80,000 stadiums for that).

In Spain, these ones will be in the bid for sure:

- Camp Nou (Barcelona, 98,000+expansion)
- Santiago Bernabéu (Madrid, 80,000)
- Nou Mestalla (Valencia, 73,000)
- Estadio Olímpico (Madrid, 73,000)
- Nuevo San Mamés (Bilbao, 58,000)
- Ruiz de Lopera / Sanchez Pizjuan (Sevilla,55,000-65,000)
- Nueva Romareda (Zaragoza, 43,000)

So we just need another stadium (unless Spain rejects having 2 stadiums in Madrid and decides to let Lisboa have them, something unlikely).

La Coruña could be a good option. Deportivo has an old 35,000 stadium and they have been trying to reach a deal with the City Council to build a new one. A WC would be a perfect excuse for that and this way we would cover the region of NW Spain.

Malaga is also a good choice since it's the sixth largest Spanish city. They have just made important work in their small stadium (29,000) but the club seems to be growing after facing some financial problems. It would cover SE Spain.

Murcia (SE Spain, 7th largest city) and Palma (Balearic Islands, 8th largest city) could be less likely options. Murcia built a 33,000 stadium in 2006 but I am not sure if it could be expanded. Mallorca wanted to build a new 40,000new stadium but the team is not in good shape and current crisis hasn't helped the project.


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## Fern (Dec 3, 2004)

Perhaps this could be the start of a new era in the relations between the two countries. Personally I think that this bid has all the ingredients to be successful!
I'm guessing that the Alvalade stadium would be left out in that case seeing as Spain would be hosting 8 stadiums due to its larger size.


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## seattle92 (Dec 25, 2008)

Stifler said:


> It seems the configuration of the bid will be 8+4 with the opening in Lisboa and the final in Madrid (although opening could be in Barcelona if FIFA finally requires +80,000 stadiums for that).
> 
> So we just need another stadium (unless Spain rejects having 2 stadiums in Madrid and decides to let Lisboa have them, something unlikely).


Spain invited Portugal for this, Portugal accepted. But i don't see the bid going forward if those two situation don't happen.


Of course the opening has to be in Lisbon. It couldn't be any other way, a country in a join bid couldn't be without a final or an opening. 
It's a strange requirement from FIFA, what countries in the world have two satiums with more then 80000 seats? Only giants like USA and China, or England and Spain in Europe (even France or Italy probably don't have it). This way it will be almost impossible for many countries to keep biding for WC.


The other problem is the two Lisbon stadiums. Like we all know portuguese football it's all about 3 clubs: Benfica, Sporting and Porto. A football competition in the country without the participation of the 3 clubs it's almost impossible.
And besides that, it would mean that 2 more stadiums (instead of one) would need works for temporary seats. At this point, with the economic crises the country is living, i don't see suport from the government to accept that. The government only accept the offer because it wouldn't have almost any costs, they can easly change their mind.

Portugal's stadiums
Luz (opening)
Alvalade
Dragão
Braga (it's possible they choose Algarve just because of the tourism. I think Braga would be better)


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## Stifler (Apr 11, 2006)

seattle92 said:


> Of course the opening has to be in Lisbon. It couldn't be any other way, a country in a join bid couldn't be without a final or an opening.
> It's a strange requirement from FIFA, what countries in the world have two satiums with more then 80000 seats? Only giants like USA and China, or England and Spain in Europe (even France or Italy probably don't have it). This way it will be almost impossible for many countries to keep biding for WC.


Yeah, it's a strange requirement and it may be just a rumour, but it has been in the press these days. I don't support it either.



seattle92 said:


> The other problem is the two Lisbon stadiums. Like we all know portuguese football it's all about 3 clubs: Benfica, Sporting and Porto. A football competition in the country without the participation of the 3 clubs it's almost impossible.
> And besides that, it would mean that 2 more stadiums (instead of one) would need works for temporary seats. At this point, with the economic crises the country is living, i don't see suport from the government to accept that. The government only accept the offer because it wouldn't have almost any costs, they can easly change their mind.


I wouldn't really mind having 2 stadiums in Lisbon since it would mean the Spanish host cities would cover a larger part of the country but I don't think it will happen. Madrid offers 80,000+73,000 while Lisbon 65,000+50,000, so the second choice might weaken the bid.


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## PaulFCB (Apr 21, 2008)

seattle92 said:


> Of course the opening has to be in Lisbon. It couldn't be any other way, a country in a join bid couldn't be without a final or an opening.
> It's a strange requirement from FIFA, what countries in the world have two satiums with more then 80000 seats? Only giants like USA and China, or England and Spain in Europe (even France or Italy probably don't have it). This way it will be almost impossible for many countries to keep biding for WC.


 I guess it's enough to have one. If you're hosting the WC on you're own you can have the opening match on the stadium that can host the final ( France 1998 ) ...and if there's two countries, one of 80k for each of them.



> It seems the configuration of the bid will be 8+4 with the opening in Lisboa and the final in Madrid (although opening could be in Barcelona if FIFA finally requires +80,000 stadiums for that).
> 
> So we just need another stadium (unless Spain rejects having 2 stadiums in Madrid and decides to let Lisboa have them, something unlikely).


 If Spain also takes the opening match along with the Final I doubt Portugal would accept another condition like letting Madrid have 2 stadiums if they can't also use Alvalade.


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## MoreOrLess (Feb 17, 2005)

Isnt the minimum capacity 45K for a WC now not 40K? I could see those two smaller portugese stadiums having problems reaching that with temp stands.


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## seattle92 (Dec 25, 2008)

Stifler said:


> Yeah, it's a strange requirement and it may be just a rumour, but it has been in the press these days. I don't support it either.
> 
> I wouldn't really mind having 2 stadiums in Lisbon since it would mean the Spanish host cities would cover a larger part of the country but I don't think it will happen. Madrid offers 80,000+73,000 while Lisbon 65,000+50,000, so the second choice might weaken the bid.



I understand your view, but i think everybody is just talking about stadium sizes and seats. I don't think a WC is just that, and it's very sad if FIFA sees it that way.

We are talking about a join bid. Everybody knows that in terms of stadiums and infrastructures, Spain could do it alone. But they decided to bid with Portugal (probably because FIFA liked the idea).

With that decision, Spain (and FIFA) must know that some adjustments have to be made. If stadium sizes were the only thing that matters, Spain wouldn't invite Portugal, and FIFA would advise Spain to do it alone. 

We must not forget that all this people know and talk with each other. I'm sure there were a lot of phone calls between Battler and Angel Villar, before Spain decided to invite Portugal. 

Nothing is for free, this spanish decision is for their own good, i'm sure of it. But when they decided this, they knew Spain would loose some games and some importance. 

I'm pretty sure the opening will be in Luz, and i also don't see Alvalade out of the bid.




Braga stadium seem very good choice for the 4th place. It would be very easy (and not very expensive) do put 10000 temporary seats in one of the tops (the one without the "stone wall" of course)

That transformation in the Algarve stadium wouldn't be that easy. But it's hard to leave the most tourist area of the country out of the party. Hotels and other tourism infrastructures it's what Algarve has more


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## PaulFCB (Apr 21, 2008)

MoreOrLess said:


> Isnt the minimum capacity 45K for a WC now not 40K? I could see those two smaller portugese stadiums having problems reaching that with temp stands.


 In Germany there were 4 stadiums with less then 45k ( between 42k and 44,600 ).


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## Its AlL gUUd (Jan 24, 2006)

seattle92 said:


> We are talking about a join bid. Everybody knows that in terms of stadiums and infrastructures, Spain could do it alone. But they decided to bid with Portugal (probably because FIFA liked the idea).


Actually its most likely that Spain decided to co-host as they had already hosted the World Cup in 1982 which is quite recent compared to other countries bidding. This will give them a better chance of winning as Portugal haven't hosted before. So Spain actually needs Portugal to win IMO. (and FIFA has generally frowned at Joint bids btw)


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## CiudadanoDelMundo (Jul 7, 2008)

Yeah, here we go!! Nice to see Spain and Portugal working together al last!


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## lpioe (May 6, 2006)

Wasn't the new project for the stadium in Zaragoza 50k?
In Sevilla I would definately choose reformed Sevilla or Betis stadium, not La Cartuja with the tracks. If I remember correctly both projects are 60k+.


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## Stifler (Apr 11, 2006)

lpioe said:


> Wasn't the new project for the stadium in Zaragoza 50k?


The winner project has 43k with an easy expansion to 50k, but until the club and te City Council reach an agreement there is nothing sure.



lpioe said:


> In Sevilla I would definately choose reformed Sevilla or Betis stadium, not La Cartuja with the tracks. If I remember correctly both projects are 60k+.


For sure. I guess none of the stadiums will have tracks,since they will be removed from Estadio Olimpico in 2016 in the worst case.


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## gincan (Feb 1, 2006)

I doubt that Málaga will be an option, the current stadium can't be expanded and the city council will not pay for a new stadium since they already paid for the renovation of the current.

Perhaps Vigo would be an option, but then they would have to reconstruct the current stadium completely. Another option would be Gijón, the current stadium is to smal and there is plenty of space to expand on.


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## Mulzani (May 9, 2007)

^^

I think that Vigo is closer to Porto, Braga or La Coruña to be an option, if those are the chosen ones. Málaga could be the best option, but it's needed to build a new stadium, and who will pay it?.

The bests options could be Gijón, but the stadium is very small, Murcia, or José Rico Pérez in Alicante, wich will have a rennovation, and Alicante have more potential visitors than others places.


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## Stifler (Apr 11, 2006)

gincan said:


> Perhaps Vigo would be an option, but then they would have to reconstruct the current stadium completely.


I would say La Coruña is the favourite, but Vigo would have a chance if they manage to reach a quick agreement about building a new stadium. 



gincan said:


> Another option would be Gijón, the current stadium is to smal and there is plenty of space to expand on.


Public institutions have already spent a lot of money in the club to avoid bankrupcy, so I don't see them investing that much. The only chance would be selling the stadium (located in the most expensive area of the city) and building another one in the outskirts, but now it's not the best moment for real state companies and they plan to expand it next year to ~30,000.



Mulzani said:


> The bests options could be Gijón, but the stadium is very small, Murcia, or José Rico Pérez in Alicante, wich will have a rennovation, and Alicante have more potential visitors than others places.


IMO Alicante is too close to Valencia and their best club is too tiny to be a real contender.


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## IMPÉRIO PT (Dec 10, 2008)

I hope that 2018 in Canada and in 2022 in China.


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## ryebreadraz (Sep 4, 2008)

IMPÉRIO PT said:


> I hope that 2018 in Canada and in 2022 in China.


Canada would have A LOT of issues hosting. There's not a single stadium in the country that is even close to being capable of hosting a World Cup match. Every single stadium would have to be new or massively renovated. Even the major cities, Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa would need new stadiums and one of them would have to be at least 80,000. After the World Cup, what would the stadiums be used for? The capacities would be too large for the CFL. On top of that, there aren't a lot of major cities in Canada. Only 6 cities have populations over 1,000,000 and because it's such a large country, they'd probably have to use a pod system like has been proposed for the US, necessitating 12 host cities.

If I were in charge, England would host 2018, the US would host 2022, Spain/Portugal would host 2026 and Australia would host 2030.


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## Njggah'z Heppin' (Sep 29, 2008)

IMPÉRIO PT said:


> I hope that 2018 in Canada and in 2022 in China.


What kind of portuguese are you? :lol:


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## Michael_23 (Mar 1, 2008)

Portugal had Euro 2004 not so long time ago... I don't think if you get this champs 

104k Barca's stadium looks amazing!


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## Stifler (Apr 11, 2006)

Njggah'z Heppin' said:


> What kind of portuguese are you? :lol:


Actually there is quite a lot of opposition among Portuguese people according to what I read in their subforum. IMO it doesn't make too much sense since a joint bid with Spain is their only chance to host a WC and their level of investment in infraestructure will be pretty low. Even the distribution of the host cities (8:4) is favourable to their interests (we are 4.5:1 in population).

I understand more opposition from Spain, since bidding alone we already have many chances to host it (if not in 2018 for sure the next time the WC comes to Europe).


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## gincan (Feb 1, 2006)

Well Spain will need 6 or 8 cities. The ones that are sure to be picked are Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, Sevilla, Bilbao and Zaragoza. Then there is the posibility that two more cities will be chosen, here I think Gijon, Vigo, Coruña and Murcia are the likely ones since these clubs could have use for a 40000+ stadium.


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## Mulzani (May 9, 2007)

Stifler said:


> ...
> 
> IMO Alicante is too close to Valencia and their best club is too tiny to be a real contender.


Well, now Alicante and Hercules are in the second division, but Hercules has been in first division for years, and this year Hercules is doing a good work in Adelante League. Moreover, Alicante is the fourth populated province in Spain, and a high porcentaje of foreigners from England or Germany live in Alicante, in the Mundial '82, Alicante and Elche had a stadium for the championship.


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## Wolds Mariner (Dec 31, 2008)

As much as this bid sounds all very nice in principle, the lopsided nature of it just doesn't sit well with me. I feel that joint bids ideally should be 50-50 splits or not done at all.

Part of me also worries whether the number of European bids may actually help to take the tournament away from the continent altogether.


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## Its AlL gUUd (Jan 24, 2006)

Wolds Mariner said:


> Part of me also worries whether the number of European bids may actually help to take the tournament away from the continent altogether.


my thoughts exactly, the fight between the European bids may well allow one of the other bids to win since the European votes will be split. i would've liked there to have just been one European bid the whole continent could've got behind to bring it to Europe.


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## Wolds Mariner (Dec 31, 2008)

What's the logic behind this bid exactly? We all know Spain could host alone, so why get Portugal involved, especially when it is such an imbalanced proposal?


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## IMPÉRIO PT (Dec 10, 2008)

Njggah'z Heppin' said:


> What kind of portuguese are you? :lol:


Many Portuguese and Spanish are against.


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## MoreOrLess (Feb 17, 2005)

Its AlL gUUd said:


> my thoughts exactly, the fight between the European bids may well allow one of the other bids to win since the European votes will be split. i would've liked there to have just been one European bid the whole continent could've got behind to bring it to Europe.


Alot of the voting is on a knockout basis though.


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## seattle92 (Dec 25, 2008)

IMPÉRIO PT said:


> I hope that 2018 in Canada and in 2022 in China.


Alguém com a foto do viaduto do Cacém não podia dizer nada de jeito


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## IcyUrmel (Mar 1, 2006)

Its AlL gUUd said:


> my thoughts exactly, the fight between the European bids may well allow one of the other bids to win since the European votes will be split. i would've liked there to have just been one European bid the whole continent could've got behind to bring it to Europe.


Not if they follow the same voting procedure they did in the past. After each round, the last one is eliminated, and the whole thing only comes to an end when one bid has reached more than 50% of the votes. So even if in the first round the pro-European votes are divided to 3 competitors, at a certain point they will concentrate on only one bid (only possible exception would be a heads-up between two European bids).

So there is no need to concentrate on only one bid in advance. Only nessesary thing is an agreement that after having lost their personal favorite, all European and pro-European voters will support annother European contestant.


I suppose that is more or less what MoreOrLess meant, too.


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## 67868 (Jul 31, 2006)

spain should go for it alone


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## Latinthug23 (Dec 6, 2007)

ANY news about the portugal/spain bid? Are the still in or have they pull out?? today was the last day to submit their proposals !


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## Aka (Jan 2, 2006)

Nobody ever thought about quitting, only some guys from SSC. Even today a FIFA spokesman said that joint bids will be considered.


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## Njggah'z Heppin' (Sep 29, 2008)

IMPÉRIO PT said:


> Many Portuguese and Spanish are against.


Why? It would be good for the countries. Or not?


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## Aka (Jan 2, 2006)

Some Portuguese have that idea that the country will spend a lot of money again like they did for Euro 2004, although that's wrong. The Spanish think they could do it by themselves.


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## potipoti (Jul 28, 2006)

it's better if they go together, southamerica would support this option because it's better for them (many people from there living in spain and portugal)


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## Golan Trevize (Dec 3, 2005)

Escalabitano said:


> First, isn't country isn't yours.
> Not only that.
> The Portuguese Moderation already advice.


What the hell are you talking about? I've never received a warning from the mods, nor there is a reason for it. I'm not a clone, my nick is taken from my favourite character from the Foundation books saga.


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## Escalabitano (Jun 12, 2009)

PortoNuts said:


> What's your problem Escalabitano? From what see, this is an international forum, so anyone from everywhere in the world is entitled to have an opinion.


He is simply passing it by Portuguese, and isn't.




Golan Trevize said:


> What the hell are you talking about? I've never received a warning from the mods, nor there is a reason for it. I'm not a clone, my nick is taken from my favourite character from the Foundation books saga.


Do you know Barra?


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## Escalabitano (Jun 12, 2009)

My reasons for the no: The cream of Portuguese are against, all I talked about it don't want, most Portuguese Forum also not. 
Portugal and Spain have different dimensions, if we had a neighbor like Greece, Hungary or Netherlands, all right, would be balanced, but Spain is 5x larger than Portugal in area and 4x in population. The distribution of games will be extremely in favor of Spain, naturally. After all, the event will only have 3 stadiums in Portugal (Estádio da Luz and Estádio de Alvalade in Lisbon, Estádio do Dragão in Porto). If we had Coimbra and the Algarve for example it was better, but not even that. I'm totally against.


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## krudmonk (Jun 14, 2007)

How would Lisboa and Madrid both feature two stadia?


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## Golan Trevize (Dec 3, 2005)

Escalabitano said:


> He is simply passing it by Portuguese, and isn't.


Mas quem é que diz que eu não sou português? Eu sou tão português como tu, se calhar mais até.


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## Aka (Jan 2, 2006)

Estádio Algarve will probably be one of the stadiums, since Macário Correia wants to upgrade it. In fact, Portugal will have more matches than the difference of number of stadiums and population would suggest.


I don't believe La Peineta is going to be chosen. Even if it's bigger than Alvalade, I don't believe Villar won't let Portugal have those two stadiums in Lisbon (and.... is La Peineta really going to be built? I mean... for which Olympics? 2012? 2016?...)


Escalabitano, speak for yourself when you say that we don't want the World Cup. The truth is that when I see comments from those opposing this bid (and I don't mean SSC, I mean everywhere), 95% say incredibly stupid stuff revealing that they really don't know what they're talking about.


Yet, I also don't believe that this World Cup will come to Portugal and Spain. It's true that we'll get all the Conmebol votes; but when it comes to the others.... I don't know. And Blatter is Russia biased.


P.S.: Escalabitano, não tás a confundir o gajo com o Portugues?


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## Aka (Jan 2, 2006)

By the way, this is the official website, although it's still under construction:

http://www.candidaturaiberica.com/


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## lemog (Oct 2, 2009)

Escalabitano said:


> My reasons for the no: The cream of Portuguese are against, all I talked about it don't want, most Portuguese Forum also not.
> Portugal and Spain have different dimensions, if we had a neighbor like Greece, Hungary or Netherlands, all right, would be balanced, but Spain is 5x larger than Portugal in area and 4x in population. The distribution of games will be extremely in favor of Spain, naturally. After all, the event will only have 3 stadiums in Portugal (Estádio da Luz and Estádio de Alvalade in Lisbon, Estádio do Dragão in Porto). If we had Coimbra and the Algarve for example it was better, but not even that. I'm totally against.


Well, but Portugal is too small to host a World Cup alone. I believe a joint with Spain is the only chance for Portugal.


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## Aka (Jan 2, 2006)

lemog said:


> Well, but Portugal is too small to host a World Cup alone. I believe a joint with Spain is the only chance for Portugal.


It's bigger than Belgium and the Netherlands together (not in population, of course ) and Qatar, and just a bit smaller than the Republic of Korea (not in population, of course  Part II).


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## I_live_cement (Jan 5, 2009)

Aka said:


> It's bigger than Belgium and the Netherlands together (not in population, of course ) and Qatar, and just a bit smaller than the Republic of Korea (not in population, of course  Part II).


Land size has nothing to do with it though. Population is what matters.

Belgium is the same size as Portugal, in that respect, and the Netherlands is larger.


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## KingmanIII (Aug 25, 2008)

Bilbao, huh? So, the Basque clamor for sovereignty from Spain except when WC bidding rolls around? Gotcha.


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## Aka (Jan 2, 2006)

I_live_cement said:


> Land size has nothing to do with it though. Population is what matters.
> 
> Belgium is the same size as Portugal, in that respect, and the Netherlands is larger.


In that case... would a World Cup ibe more successful in India than in Portugal?

What would you reply if I said that India is a lot bigger than Russia or the United States?

Yeah! I get your point, don't worry.


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## Pelha (Aug 16, 2006)




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## TugaMtl (May 2, 2009)

I don't want Portugal/Spain to win this bid. Like it has already been said, Spain is around 5x bigger than Portugal and will receive the bulk of the games. I'd prefer to see Portugal do a World Cup alone in the future.

Also can someone tell me why Spain even agreed to do a joint bid? They are perfectly capable of hosting a World Cup by themselves.


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## Golan Trevize (Dec 3, 2005)

Portugal will never be able to do a World Cup on its own, it's just beyond our capabilities, what would we do with 10/12 stadiums with 40 000+ capacity each, and a stadium with 80 000 for the final?


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## mihai_alex (May 3, 2008)

kerouac1848 said:


> It's certainly the best European bid from a technical viewpoint because it offers the highest capacity and best quality stadia with little investment required. Doesn't this bid provide 8 stadiums with a UEFA 5 star ranking as of the present time? There is also little issue with other aspects, such as accommodation and transport, which to various degrees affect the other European bids.
> 
> However, having the best technical bid isn't enough and their two major weaknesses - joint hosts *and Spain having hosted the WC in '82* - are serious ones. For this reason, and the fact that I don't think they are that far ahead at all of England from a technical viewpoint, I can't see them getting it. Would be fantastic hosts though.


So what? Germany hosted a WC after 32 years,why can't Spain host another after 36 or 40 years?


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## LandOfGreenGinger (Apr 30, 2006)

mihai_alex said:


> So what? Germany hosted a WC after 32 years,why can't Spain host another after 36 or 40 years?


Nobody says Spain can't host, but it certainly counts against them. I think they included 1st time hosts Portugal on the ticket to try and offset this. 

Saying all this people on here get caught up in the stadium design issues when really, fifa politics will decide who gets the nod, not architectural details.


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## BOL (Apr 1, 2008)

Portugal had an EURO, so why it couldn´t host a world cup? why not? it has new stadiums and I think they can build two or three more


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## GreenwichSE10 (Oct 26, 2006)

I want my country England to win 2018..but if not a Spain/Portugal bid would be an excellent and superb World Cup:cheers:


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## Ribarca (Jan 28, 2005)

TugaMtl said:


> I don't want Portugal/Spain to win this bid. Like it has already been said, Spain is around 5x bigger than Portugal and will receive the bulk of the games. I'd prefer to see Portugal do a World Cup alone in the future.
> 
> Also can someone tell me why Spain even agreed to do a joint bid? They are perfectly capable of hosting a World Cup by themselves.


I don't know either why Spain wants this. Probably because '82 is still too near. But it's obvious that Portugal needs Spain if it ever wants to host a WC.


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## Aka (Jan 2, 2006)

CORLEONE said:


> To make you a favour... :lol:


It's symbiotic. Spain wants votes from countries like Brazil.


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## CORLEONE (Jun 15, 2007)

Aka said:


> It's symbiotic. Spain wants votes from countries like Brazil.


Brazil and who else?


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## Aka (Jan 2, 2006)

CORLEONE said:


> Brazil and who else?


Who knows? We're probably more charming. At least we were in 1999. 

Don't forget that individuals like Havelange have huge influence in FIFA.


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## Chimbanha (Aug 21, 2009)

Spain is bidding with Portugal because they thought this was the only way they could be stronger than England. Two years ago England seemed absolutely unbeatable, and we were not sure as of the extension of FIFA's rules against joint bids. As it turns out, joint bids are not that well regarded and England is not that strong. 

And Portugal is bidding with Spain because it's the only way they can get a WC.


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## JGuerreiro (Mar 9, 2007)

In which part of Madrid will be the new atletico's stadium?


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## Aka (Jan 2, 2006)

Chimbanha said:


> Spain is bidding with Portugal because they thought this was the only way they could be stronger than England. Two years ago England seemed absolutely unbeatable, and we were not sure as of the extension of FIFA's rules against joint bids. As it turns out, joint bids are not that well regarded and England is not that strong.
> 
> And Portugal is bidding with Spain because it's the only way they can get a WC.


Spain and Portugal bid was made this year, not two years ago.


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## Chimbanha (Aug 21, 2009)

Aka said:


> Spain and Portugal bid was made this year, not two years ago.


But two years ago was probably when the Spanish started considering the bid, and whether Portugal should be involved. But that was just a wild guess. Substitute that time-reference for one of your preference


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## buho (Sep 15, 2008)

JGuerreiro said:


> In which part of Madrid will be the new atletico's stadium?


It's the stadium that would have been Olympic if Madrid won 2016 games. It's at the east, in San Blas neighborhood.


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## Latinthug23 (Dec 6, 2007)

Chimbanha said:


> But two years ago was probably when the Spanish started considering the bid, and whether Portugal should be involved. But that was just a wild guess. Substitute that time-reference for one of your preference


You are correct, it was in 2007 that the portuguese federation suggested the idea to their spanish counterpart:

I have an article from that time. (sorry in portuguese only)


Mundial 2018: Espanha pondera organização com Portugal

O presidente da Federação Portuguesa de Futebol (FPF), Gilberto Madail, sugeriu à Real Federação Espanhola de Futebol (RFEF) a organização conjunta do Campeonato do Mundo de 2018, revelou este sábado o presidente do organismo espanhol, Angel Maria Villar.
«O presidente da Federação (Portuguesa de Futebol) falou-me nessa possibilidade e eu não o contestei. Se não contestei é porque estou a pensar», disse Angel Maria Villar, à entrada para o I Fórum do Futebol, que decorre no Centro Nacional de Exposições, em Santarém.

O presidente da RFEF considerou que «é sempre interessante» organizar um Mundial, mas Gilberto Madaíl deixou, em declarações à Lusa, a advertência: «Ideias, ideias! Mas, cuidado, nunca podemos passar das ideias à prática sem falar com os Governos», lembrou.

Em Novembro de 2007, Gilberto Madail considerou «uma ideia peregrina» a sugestão de Portugal organizar o Campeonato do Mundo de futebol de 2018, salientando que ainda faltavam 11 anos. Na mesma altura, o presidente da FPF qualificou de arrojadas as decisões de Inglaterra e, conjuntamente, Holanda e Bélgica, candidatarem-se à organização da competição.

Diário Digital / Lusa


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## 8SoTall (Nov 26, 2009)

I think a Spanish/Portuguese WC would be great. Not only are the stadiums amazing and a final in Camp Nou would be fantastic. But because of the fact both countries had relatively recent soccer tournaments, the chances of getting the nod should be good. Besides, sun, sun and sun....what other European bidders offer that? :banana:


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## Aka (Jan 2, 2006)

But they had until this year the opportunity of doing it only by themselves... and they didn't.


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## willo (Jan 3, 2005)

JGuerreiro said:


> In which part of Madrid will be the new atletico's stadium?


east of the city. metro station: Estadio Olímpico Line:7

a photo


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## Aka (Jan 2, 2006)

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=40.435646,-3.606777&spn=0,359.956055&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=40.435426,-3.606622&panoid=1xBYM64DTe6cy4ebkYxvvA&cbp=12,57.39,,0,-3.61


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

As far as i know the C value of the 3rd tier at bernabeu is under C90.
SO the net capacity will be under 80.

Camp Nou Final?


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## Aka (Jan 2, 2006)

*Official video* (well, it's not the 50 minute one they've shown in South Africa and Angola)

_(you can tell this was made by a Spanish. First of all, they call Oporto to the city of Porto. And last, Deco plays in... Braga??? :lol_


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## fidalgo (Mar 10, 2007)

the website of Portugal/Spain bid

http://www.candidaturaiberica.com/eng


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## Aka (Jan 2, 2006)

fidalgo said:


> the website of Portugal/Spain bid
> 
> http://www.candidaturaiberica.com/eng


Finally! I was getting tired of that "under construction" message.


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## Filipe710 (Sep 29, 2009)

Para mim podem enfiar a candidatura num sitio que ca sei....
Prefiro uns jogos olimpicos sozinhos (penso que temos capacidade para tal e era um grande desenvolvimente ao remodelar o Jamor e criar uma cidade olimpica que depois dos jogos iria ser usada pelos nosssos atletas que o merecem) do que tar a fazer de escravo de espanha onde so temos 3 estadios.
Nao temos a capacidade deles mas pa ser assim mais vale a pena nao fazer.


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## Andre_idol (Aug 6, 2008)

^^English here.


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## elston (Apr 15, 2010)

RobH said:


> What he actually said was joint bids would be considered between nations who can't host alone. Spain certainly doesn't fall into that category.


yup, agreed


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Yes, Spain is the one that could host alone. We're being realistic, Portugal is just the one that can't host the World Cup on it's own.


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## MS20 (Apr 12, 2009)

Why would 9 stadiums in Spain and 3 in Portugal not be a "true joint bid" neufert? 

This is a country of 10 million people, of which there are only 3 clubs who are well supported. Spain needs Portugals stadiums in Lisbon and Porto to have a great bid, and Portugal, well, they need Spain if they want to host a World Cup. They could even give Lisbon the title of being the city with 2 stadiums. 

I'm sure the Portuguese people would be extremely supportive of such a bid. You would be foolish not to.


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## buho (Sep 15, 2008)

I like the videos and the slogan about candidatura Ibérica, but I miss Cristiano Ronaldo saying that in the 1st video.



neufert said:


> Please, be realistic. Portugal will never host a World Cup by itself… *as neither Spain, with 4,5 times Portugal´s population, has hardly any chance*.


Spain already organised 1982 FIFA World Cup...


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## neufert (May 8, 2008)

buho said:


> Spain already organised 1982 FIFA World Cup...


Well, in 36-40 years things (politically talking) will have changed enough to make situation different. Just have a look at the kind of countries that are winning the last bids. I think the only chance we have (Spain & Portugal) nowadays is to play together, maybe only Spain by itself could but I don´t believe that one would be a "winning bid".



MS20 said:


> Why would 9 stadiums in Spain and 3 in Portugal not be a "true joint bid" neufert?


Maybe i didn´t explain that properly. Let´s see now: I meant that a real joint bid can´t give Portugal just 3 stadiums. It would be a "ghost joint bid" because both parts are not in similar conditions. I believe 8-4 stadiums is fair enough.

Well, hope have explained myself correctly.


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## buho (Sep 15, 2008)

neufert said:


> Well, in 36-40 years things (politically talking) will have changed enough to make situation different. Just have a look at the kind of countries that are winning the last bids. I think the only chance we have (Spain & Portugal) nowadays is to play together, maybe only Spain by itself could but I don´t believe that one would be a "winning bid".


Yes, Spain is technically able to organise it, but would never win alone, I agree with that, and I would like this bid to be the first step in a closer collaboration Spain-Portugal.




neufert said:


> Maybe i didn´t explain that properly. Let´s see now: I meant that a real joint bid can´t give Portugal just 3 stadiums. It would be a "ghost joint bid" because both parts are not in similar conditions. I believe 8-4 stadiums is fair enough.


I think 8-4 would be fair too.


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## 1772 (Aug 18, 2009)

skaP187 said:


> Catalunya is not Spain?


Oh, please. A WC in Spain would benefit Catalonia alot!


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## Aka (Jan 2, 2006)

Lord David said:


> Sydney having 2 stadiums is a reasonable choice based on the stadium situation in Australia, compare that to Portugal, sure Lisbon has 2 stadiums that could host, the country is small, but still, one would like to see 5 cities be put up for their bid.
> 
> London is not having 3 stadiums! Who said anything about England's bid involving London using 3 stadiums? 2 at tops, but even then you got a wide selection of cities and stadiums to choose from.


Having Luz and Alvalade is also reasonable considering Portugal.


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## Aka (Jan 2, 2006)

Lord David said:


> Technically you cannot considering the design of most stadiums in Portugal, even if you did propose using Euro 2004 venues, much of these stadiums would require complete overhauls costing millions that seem too much effort just to add 10,000 seats. Most of them aren't design just for the simple 2nd tier upgrade


It's just 10k... that's hardly a tier for a big stadium.

We don't need a track in Coimbra (or Leiria), There's a lot of space in Aveiro. Also in Luz, Alvalade, Dragão (a bit less here, but isn't 50k enough already?), you can expand Algarve's top tiers and so on.



Lord David said:


> not to mention that most of your cities probably don't even need a 40,000 seater stadium (even if you do propose to downsize them post World Cup).


You shouldn't evaluate Portuguese cities by their population, because our urban organization is a mess. If Coimbra had the same organization as a Spanish city (like Badajoz) its population would be around 300k or more.

A good example? The Centro region in Portugal has almost the same size and population than Galicia. Yet, nobody questions Vigo or La Coruña, right?



Lord David said:


> Also, where will you get the 80,000 seater final venue? Upgrade the national stadium perhaps? Build a new one? Upgrade an existing one?


Doing it at Luz would be quite easy.



Lord David said:


> Something in a smaller scale like a Euro or Under whatever World Cup you can do, but not necessarily the real deal. Which is why you're teaming up with Spain in order to get some WC glory.


The reason why we're doing it with Spain is because we don't want to spend more money in stadiums. Actually, our Government wouldn't even support it if it had to spend more millions, especially during this crisis.

That's the reason why there's only three Portuguese stadiums on the bid. The only ones with more than 40k seats.

Actually, that's also one of the reasons why Spain wants this joint bid. Yes, they still have to build new stadiums, yet with Portugal the number is reduced, and you can't say they're going through nice times.


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## Filipe710 (Sep 29, 2009)

In the Luz you could close the 3rd tier, that would add some more seats but i dont know huw much maybe around 10k even and you still can make the stands closer to the field. In alvalade you can make the stands close to the field. In Dragao you can close the goal stands that are opened that would add maybe 10k seats. In Coimbra you have one stand that is diferent from the others 3 and you can still remove the track. In Algarve you can change 2 stands and maybe make a stand as was Sydney Olympic Stadium. Leiria wont bid. In Braga you can add one temporary stand that was what they were thinking to do.


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## Andre_idol (Aug 6, 2008)

^^that would totally kill the desing of the stadiums hno: specially Dragao and Luz.

And let´s not even start with how you could do it...Destroying running tracks (Aka said Leiria isn´t necessary when we already received some European meetings there...) to put more seats there, in Coimbra and Algarve is just a silly idea...Then we would have a Coimbra stadium with their amazing average of supporters in an even bigger stadium :nuts: Even if it was temporary seats that would look awful! The only aceptable idea is a new stand for Braga...and even there that would ruin a piece of art!

I´m a supporter of the bid cause I like football a lot but I think we could spent our money in some other things (TGV...airports...maybe another Expo) and I really don´get how Spain need us (or vice-versa actually) to host a World Cup.

The best thing would be 4 stadiums. The big three plus Algarve due to the location...and a "Sydney solution" there would look good :yes:


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## kosova-fener (Feb 17, 2010)

one reason i wouldnt support this bid is because people in spain are very racist. just look at the games in la liga, its a disgrace. they are in the same line as the fascists of italy. down with racism, spanish supporters dont deserve this. even you ex coach(luis aragones) is a racist bastard. no world cup for spain. 
ps. im white


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## neufert (May 8, 2008)

kosova-fener said:


> one reason i wouldnt support this bid is because people in spain are very racist. just look at the games in la liga, its a disgrace. they are in the same line as the fascists of italy. down with racism, spanish supporters dont deserve this. even you ex coach(luis aragones) is a racist bastard. no world cup for spain.
> ps. im white


:eek2:


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## Hiram (Feb 13, 2004)

kosova-fener said:


> one reason i wouldnt support this bid is because people in spain are very racist. just look at the games in la liga, its a disgrace. they are in the same line as the fascists of italy. down with racism, spanish supporters dont deserve this. even you ex coach(luis aragones) is a racist bastard. no world cup for spain.
> 
> ps. im a wanker


Fixed.


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## neufert (May 8, 2008)

Hiram said:


> Fixed.


:lol:


Anyway I´d like to know which facts pushed him to think in that way (leaving out all those "rigurous details" about spanish soccer supporters or about our former national team coach). Taking into account that most of us are a mixture of several races that lived throughout centuries here and that during a decade millions of migrants have come here without remarkable conflicts ... 
Well, there are racist bastards everywhere but I don´t think that´s a feature that characterise spanish people.

Edit: wait a minute. Now I realize that maybe kosova-fener´s attitude has a lot to see with the non-recognition, that the spanish government does, of your Kosovo. Am I wrong?


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## 1772 (Aug 18, 2009)

kosova-fener said:


> one reason i wouldnt support this bid is because people in spain are very racist. just look at the games in la liga, its a disgrace. they are in the same line as the fascists of italy. down with racism, spanish supporters dont deserve this. even you ex coach(luis aragones) is a racist bastard. no world cup for spain.
> ps. im white


How typical... A kosovar crying about racism while he is killing all the serbs in his own land. hno:
Look to your own backyard before you start blaming others, eh?


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## skaP187 (Jan 10, 2006)

kosova-fener said:


> one reason i wouldnt support this bid is because people in spain are very racist. just look at the games in la liga, its a disgrace. they are in the same line as the fascists of italy. down with racism, spanish supporters dont deserve this. even you ex coach(luis aragones) is a racist bastard. no world cup for spain.


So when was the last time you have been to Spain?



kosova-fener said:


> ps. im white


That´s your problem.


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## Motorways (Jul 1, 2009)

kosova-fener said:


> one reason i wouldnt support this bid is because people in spain are very racist. just look at the games in la liga, its a disgrace. they are in the same line as the fascists of italy. down with racism, spanish supporters dont deserve this. even you ex coach(luis aragones) is a racist bastard. no world cup for spain.
> ps. im white



could you please tell me just one country in Europe hosting more million inmigrants than Spain during the last 10 years?

could you tell me what racist, facist or far right party has representation on the spanish parlamient as it happens in France, the UK, Austria, Italy or the Netherlands?

Could you please tell me what´s the racist attacks ratio in Spain when compared to France, Uk, Germany or any other country?

Could you please educated yourself before poiting at anyone as racist just because you from time to time watch football on TV?


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## Motorways (Jul 1, 2009)

neufert said:


> :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: wait a minute. Now I realize that maybe kosova-fener´s attitude has a lot to see with the non-recognition, that the spanish government does, of your Kosovo. Am I wrong?



Now i do understand this guy...such a childish behavior :lol::lol::lol:


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## anze (Feb 21, 2010)

For me stadium in Braga is disaster
I hate it


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## skaP187 (Jan 10, 2006)

anze said:


> For me stadium in Braga is disaster
> I hate it


Taste is a funny thing, I love it. Though I can understand you.
Atleast it is a stadium which is unique and on what you can have a strong opinion.


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